SPEAKER_04 0:04

Witches being bitches? Seen it once, seen it twice. Greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hacker Slash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. Glad we haven't scared you off yet. If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack.

SPEAKER_01 0:27

Total joke.

SPEAKER_04 0:28

Or a slash.

SPEAKER_01 0:29

Totally killer. Pun intended.

SPEAKER_04 0:31

My name is Chris, and I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast. This week I'm joined by the Super Flat Space Guy Mac.

SPEAKER_07 0:37

Hola Muchachos.

SPEAKER_04 0:38

The Gore Lover Alexis. Hey everyone. The Scream Queen Paris.

SPEAKER_07 0:42

Hey sweets.

SPEAKER_04 0:43

And this week we're joined by a very special guest. Joining us today is going to be Anthony Presley, a artist, filmmaker, and horror aficionado. Welcome, Anthony. Hi. Alright, so now as you are well aware, we believe horror is for everyone around these parts. So with that in mind, what is your connection to the genre and which flavor of horror are you most fond of?

SPEAKER_06 1:07

So for me, I've always had horror in my life. My parents didn't really believe in rating systems. So I remember being four sitting on the couch next to my dad watching Friday the 13th.

SPEAKER_05 1:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 1:21

So uh it's kind of always been in my life. And if I had a preference, I would have to say psychological whore. Excellent choice.

SPEAKER_04 1:32

Yes, you and Paris can get along just well.

SPEAKER_06 1:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:35

Are you a fan of Sackhead Jason by any chance?

SPEAKER_06 1:39

Um I'm gonna say eh.

SPEAKER_03 1:41

Same. Don't worry. I'm in I'm in that corner with you.

SPEAKER_04 1:46

Alexis is still fighting her way back for uh Hockey Mass Jason. Like a year later. That's fine. That's fine. Now, well, folks, Anthony is joining us this week because hit one of his favorite movies is actually the very same one that Mac has picked for our lineup this week. But before we reveal what that is, we do have some follow-up.

SPEAKER_07 2:05

Let's follow up on things. So we asked you guys about the movie Scream 2, um, and we actually got a lot of feedback about this one. Uh Andrew Lewis on Twitter said, The movie's a slash for me. I don't like it as much as the first due to the reveal of the killer, but I love that the sequel is much more intense. Thanks, Andrew. We also have a comment from a user called Swag Tastical, who said, actually a decent sequel. Best part was the killer and final girl screaming, fuck you, and rushing each other prior to the film's climax. And I just love that.

SPEAKER_04 2:34

You do love a good conflict, don't you, sir?

SPEAKER_07 2:36

Sure do.

SPEAKER_04 2:37

Alright, folks, now this week we're taking a look at a 70s Italian Giallo film that tells the tale of supernatural happenings occurring at a dance academy. And we're actually going to compare that against the reimagination that came to life in 2018. This week, we're talking about both versions of Susperia. Now, we know Mac and Anthony feel very passionately about this movie, but for Paris and then Alexis, uh, what were the rest of your experiences with it before we did this episode?

SPEAKER_03 3:06

I remembered it coming out on Amazon, at least the 2018 version, and I had heard there was um a previous one to that. And I I don't know, it was like very captivating from all like the stills that I saw that I was like, oh, I have to see this right when it released, like a little bit later I had watched it. But no kidding, I only made it halfway through before I was like way too scared to finish this movie, the 2018 version.

SPEAKER_07 3:30

I had actually seen the original, the 1977 version, 10 years or so ago. Uh, and I remember being very uh rememorable at the time just because it's uh certainly a unique piece of film as far as what I had seen up to that point. Uh, and I was aware that the remake had happened and there were a lot of reasons I should have seen it by now, but mostly due to the two and a half hour runtime. I have not watched it yet, though one of my best friends, Marcus, has seen it, and it's one of his favorite movies of all time. So I was really looking forward to actually sitting down and doing it.

SPEAKER_04 3:58

Very nice. Now, Anthony, I know this is your favorite film. When did you first see this? Why is it significant to you?

SPEAKER_06 4:05

Uh actually, I saw it when I was 17. Uh, that was around the time I decided, you know, I was going to start taking art serious and, you know, go in that direction towards a career. And I remember my dad, of course, watching movies, and he said, Have you ever heard of the director Dario Argento? And he said, His work is definitely something I think that you should look into because it's very, very bold with color and visually very pleasing. So I decided to watch it, and I was completely blown away.

SPEAKER_04 4:44

Nice, nice. And Mac, you know, you picked it. Why is that?

SPEAKER_01 4:49

I I think I picked it uh because I remember when the remake was coming out and there was a lot of a lot of press, you know, talking about it. And I watched a video of the 2018's uh version's filmmaker. He was talking about like his passion for the 77 version, and I was like, that makes me want to watch your movie now because you seem pretty passionate about it. So yeah, that's that's really why I picked it because it was in my mind after just seeing how in love with the original he was. I mean, it might not be good going into the 2018 version, it might be might be trash, or maybe it'll be amazing. Um, but I think it would be at least worth you know consideration because it wasn't a remake in which a filmmaker was like, I can do this better, or this is gonna make us some serious money. It was like someone you know observed some art that they loved and they decided to make something in the same vein that paid, you know, paid it some justice in their mind at least. So I thought it was worth us taking a look at um the 2018 and obviously the the 77.

SPEAKER_04 5:45

Well, I am probably gonna get shunned from a lot of horror fans here. I had actually never seen either version and I had heard about the original only in the context of it coming up in a few of my classes when I was studying digital cinematography, and particularly with their application of Technicolor and looking at even how some of the colors and some of the uh one of the characters in the movie is influenced by Snow White. So looking at those kind of parallels, but that was the extent of it. I was a completely blank slate for both of these movies. I will say that when it comes to artistic horror, it's not really my bag. I don't think I can like appreciate it in in the true depth that many others can, but yeah, take me through this. Uh, you know, Anthony, when you're first watching, you know, either the 77 or the 2018 remake, how are you feeling during that experience?

SPEAKER_06 6:37

So I would say the first impression for the 70s version going into it, I could immediately tell this is gonna be a different movie. Um, and that's just because how films were being made. Looking at the 18 version, I was going into it and I immediately noticed, obviously, with the original Susperia, we're gonna be talking about the color. And then for this one, we also have to talk about the color.

SPEAKER_04 7:07

For sure.

SPEAKER_06 7:08

Because it's the complete contrast of the original. So I think I think going into both of them, one, you know you're gonna go into something that you have no idea what you're getting into. And then when you watch the re or the retelling of the story, you know this one's gonna try and be nothing like the other one.

SPEAKER_04 7:32

Which is a really interesting take, you know, and Alexis, I'm sure you can appreciate that from your very specific requirements of a remake. Well, this one also was extremely long, too. So all right. Now, Alexis, I know you said you started with the 2018 version. Now that you're on the other side of this, you know, what were your feelings when you were watching both movies and kind of comparing them to the other?

SPEAKER_03 7:55

I guess I was I did watch the 2018 version and I I just wasn't I'm like, okay, maybe I should have done it reverse. You know, maybe I should have watched the you know OG before. But I I think to me, like I really thought and felt like I was watching two different movies.

SPEAKER_07 8:11

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:12

They had some particular elements, both in characters and both with elements of film, but very slightly. But um, but yeah, I felt just completely different. Like one, I felt like kind of happy a little bit, and the other one I kind of was like really depressed.

SPEAKER_07 8:28

Yeah, having seen the original already, I and we're watching it for this podcast. I really went into the remake expecting a certain thing, and I feel like the director went out of his way above and beyond to avoid giving me any of that really whatsoever. Like Alexa said, these are two very different movies based on the same basic premise of just like girl goes to school, maybe witches dance. That's like really the only things they have in common, in my opinion. Um and like Alexa said, the first one was like very almost light and not as grave as the remake. The remake ended up being, like Alexa said, very depressing. Um, but I also feel like when it comes to a remake, you can change as much as you want, but you have to capture that same energy that the original had. And I don't really know if the 2018 version did capture that same original Susperia energy.

SPEAKER_03 9:22

That's weird. And I think this is because I've seen I saw it flipped. I don't think the and I know it's the chicken, the egg came before the chicken, clearly. But I felt like like this whole like energy, I feel like it was just more powerful and it delivered better in the 2018 version, which is so funny. But maybe because I watched that first, and clearly I know that that one came out before. So if there was never one in the 70s, there would never be one in 2018.

SPEAKER_07 9:52

But yeah, I definitely wouldn't recommend watching the 2018 version first because it's gonna kind of take a lot of the impact out of the original. Do you guys agree with that?

SPEAKER_03 10:01

100%.

SPEAKER_01 10:02

Yeah, I think if you're gonna watch both, you gotta go in order of of release date.

SPEAKER_03 10:06

Yeah, trying to sh- I was trying to I knew everyone was gonna watch that one first. Yeah. But I wanna just flip everyone. Keeping things spicy, it's a lot of specialty. That's what I do.

SPEAKER_01 10:15

I mean, speaking of spicy, the the 2018, like it just brought an extra level of of brutality, I think, that we don't, you know, we don't see in in the 70s version. Um they both have some extreme moments of terror that we get to experience, which was nice. And I mean going going back to that that color thing, you know, the the original version had that like really magical, you know, Disney feeling with the really bright colors, and it like really worked well for that movie. Um I know Paris, you set your mood lighting to be bright red to get it to match, and I approve. And the the tone of the 2018 though, I think it would not have matched well with the original color scheme as you know as much. So I'm kind of glad that they went this really bleak Berlin late 70s, everything's drab and boring, you know, cold winter kind of feeling. Because I think if they had done, you know, if if we saw the same, you know, bright reds and vivid colors, um it wouldn't it wouldn't have matched the rest of the movie because the rest of the movie was, I mean, we we got to see that dreaminess on screen in a really different way from the original.

SPEAKER_04 11:27

For sure. Now, Anthony, I know you mentioned that this movie, well, this uh the 1977 version in particular was pretty influential on your career. Yeah, and I know that you do have you do tend to capture very vivid color in your photography. Can you tell us a little bit about you know just how this movie impacted you there and then you know the differences that you took out of the effectiveness of the color in both films?

SPEAKER_06 11:50

Really what I was looking at is what makes the original different compared to let's just say retelling version or the 18 version. So when you look at the original and you look at those color choices, you look at the cinematography, the architecture, it feels very otherworldly. Like this doesn't belong in this realm of existence, it's in a completely different one. You know, you look at the murder scenes, you look at the redness of that blood. That is not a real blood, it's very stylized. But at the same time, it's filmed in locations that are here, that are actual places. So I thought looking at these locations and bringing it into your world was really interesting.

SPEAKER_04 12:38

It's interesting that you point out that you know the fact that the color in particular doesn't belong in this in this world. And I think I didn't even pick up on that because I I think I looked at the lighting more as like a the director telling us how to feel versus like creating this this picture of a universe where you know we don't really belong in. So even looking at some of the lighting that's done, you know, there's a point where a certain character is like running away from an attacker and she's in this room, and then you can see light being used almost carve out like a little maze of like showing her the answer of where to go. And I think I've never seen another movie do that quite in this way, and I was really impressed by it.

SPEAKER_06 13:22

It made me look at color completely different rather than just having color in your work, or because I do photography and filmmaking, I really started looking at color being a very dominant element, or such in this case, uh in Suspiria, the color becomes a character.

SPEAKER_04 13:43

I dig it. Now, when we're looking at this movie in particular, and this could be either version, you know, I'm not sure generally what you guys were expecting of this for you know the version that you hadn't seen, but what surprised you most, you know, about the experience between both of them?

SPEAKER_06 13:58

I mean, if anybody says that they expected the pretzel scene in the 18 version, you're out of your mind.

SPEAKER_04 14:04

Thoroughly enjoyed though that had Alexis written all over it.

SPEAKER_03 14:09

May have watched YouTube videos just on that scene afterwards, but no. I'd be really demented if I did that.

SPEAKER_01 14:17

I think what surprised me the most about them is just the lasting effect it has on your on your psyche. So I I watched both films with um with my girlfriend and my roommate, and we're watching them, and at a certain point they're they're just like, we're gonna have nightmares after this. Because the and not because it was so scary that they weren't gonna be able to sleep, because the images that you're seeing in both films are so strong, like really, really powerful images. And the the 2018 has a lot of amazing dream sequences and and and murder, you know, sequencing sequences rather, and and the ending, of course, which we'll get to. And the 77 version is just, I mean, it's it's Wonderland, man. It is is chock full of like just really powerful, you know, colors and camera work and lighting and shapes and and everything on the screen. I mean, it's literally like going, you know, if you walk into an art museum and you just like soak up everything, you need to like take a nap afterwards to let that pass through you. So yeah, it's it was really surprising to see just how like heavily impacted both of them were.

SPEAKER_03 15:29

I was surprised that I didn't, um, especially when I'm watching older films, and Ryan, if she was here, she would agree with me that we're taken away a little bit that we're like, oh, that doesn't look real. That uh we're just not like the biggest fans of movies from this era. Well, I'll admit they took that and they went with it like with the blood that was mentioned before. Like it was made to look like that, which I thought was super cool. So it was taking what you know we think is reality and just kind of like flipping it on its side. So that's what shocked me that I wasn't taking out with of the movie with all the color and to me that stuff that isn't like realistic. Um, and it didn't take me out of the movie.

SPEAKER_07 16:13

I feel like a word that we're all kind of dancing around right now is supernatural. Uh, the original takes place almost entirely in like a supernatural fever dream. And the first time I saw that, I was like, this is a whole trip and a half. But the thing that stood out to me the most was how many women were featured in this story. And if you've listened to this podcast before, you know I love a female-driven narrative. And both of these movies were almost exclusively told through women, which I love. Um I rewatched the original and I didn't remember the ending being as abrupt as it was. Um, and then we can kind of talk about this after, but 2018 approaches the ending in a very different way. Uh, but I was very surprised with how much they went into the backstory of certain characters in the remake, uh, almost to a point where I would consider it to be a fault of the film.

SPEAKER_04 16:59

Hmm, yeah. So looking at the at these movies in particular, the only thing I knew about the 2018 version going into it was that Tildus went and plays three characters and that it's polarizing, right? So I knew not to expect it to be a retread of the original by any means. So I think that actually gave me like a really good neutral slate to view this movie uh from. But I will say that while I wasn't surprised by anything, besides, of course, like the you know, just like Anthony said, the pretzel scene was fucking insane. Um looking at the ending in particular, I mean, yes, the original 1977 version was abrupt, but the 2018 almost turned me off of the entire movie. And I was disappointed by the taste it left in my mouth. So I I'd be curious to hear some explanations and some theories. For me, there are some holes that I just can't really dig myself out of uh in terms of like how I'm understanding the story to have been up until that point. Um, but I am looking forward to some explanations there. But Alexis, you know, you've dreaded this movie for a little bit now because you said you saw something really frightening about this. Revisiting it this time, was it scary?

SPEAKER_03 18:17

Uh yeah, for sure. Each of the movies rely on like a different sort of fear. Um, I think what when I'm thinking of fear, I'm thinking of like, you know, things I just don't want to see on a normal basis. You know, there's just like all this gore that's in the second one that's just really realistic and just, you know, shows how like evil people can be. And just, you know, and then the the dream sequences they have in that 2018 one were what turned me off the first time. When I say turn off, I meant just scared shitless how to turn off. And I said, nope, not doing another like hour and a half of this. Um, but yeah, I did still find it fright frightening, and I'm glad I still watched it because I was scared as hell at the ending um of this movie. So I'm just glad I still watched it, but yeah, I was totally scared. That whole scene is terrifying to me. I I'm more of like a you know, visual person, like that thing like looks really demented, and I still want to stare at it, but I want to look away because I don't want to be waking up in the middle of the night. I've been having weird quarantine dreams lately.

SPEAKER_04 19:23

Well, this is not gonna do you any favors. And how about you, gentlemen? Was this movie tense or frightening for you?

SPEAKER_06 19:30

I think for me, I I think it's interesting that the 18 version is getting called gory because if I remember the original, I see a heart get stabbed in the very first kill multiple times. So I think that's funny. But um as far as the reimagining, I will not call it a remake because I don't consider it a remake. For me, it it wasn't so much scary. I think what the original lacks in a complete narrative, I think the retelling tried to fill in the gaps to the point where I kind of my anxiety or anxiousness kind of just disappears, and I'm just really focusing on the story itself.

SPEAKER_04 20:18

Do you feel like that's you know an over-explanation as a detriment to it? Or do you feel like it needed that additional storytelling?

SPEAKER_06 20:25

Well, for me, I mean, I didn't get bored in it. I was I was definitely interested throughout the whole thing, but I think what the topics that they added into the 18 version kind of just made it not scary and more of a social commentary.

SPEAKER_07 20:42

I can totally agree with that. The original I found the first time I saw it, it was pretty scary, pretty creepy, and it left me kind of with the heebie jeebies. Um, and that's not something older movies can say that they have that effect on me very often. Um, but the new one, I totally agree. It added so many elements that were specifically outside of the dance academy. So the first one takes place almost entirely inside that space, and it uses that to its advantage in a lot of ways. The second one took place so much outside of it that it took me out of that feeling of fear, that feeling of anxiety. And there actually were times where I was very bored during the the remake.

SPEAKER_01 21:22

Yeah, I I can understand I can understand that. The that isolation feeling in the 77. Um, I mean, anytime we see a movie that has that feature where you feel boxed in with the character, it it definitely gets you more unnerved just as a baseline. Um the the the 2018 version, I mean it it had its it definitely had its moments. Um but I I think it it chose to go for smaller, stronger, like you know, fearful areas rather than having the entire movie constantly have you on edge. I don't know that it That it helped it at all to do that, but I think when you look at when you look at the original, um, just like from the get-go, you just I don't even I don't even know how you can describe it. You just kind of feel a bit um trapped in in an asylum, if you will. Like you can't tell if they're going crazy or if you're going crazy, or if everyone else is just crazy all around you, but you just know like the world is not right. And and you get that contrast in the 2018 where you can like see legitimately sane people separated from you know everything going on within the the dance academy. And so it's it's very clear, and and they don't they don't pull any punches, they let you they let you know straight up right up front there are witches going on you know in this in this dance company. But I I think you think you think you could get that kind of like polarizing effect where it's just like real world like freedom, you're like why don't people just leave and go to that um in the in the 2018, but in the 77 you're just like trapped. So I think you get that constant level of tension for sure.

SPEAKER_06 23:05

Well in the 77, I don't even think they say like what the year is, just that it's a Berlin.

SPEAKER_01 23:10

Yeah, I I think they they made it a period piece very deliberately in the 2018 and the original is is pretty timeless. Definitely.

SPEAKER_04 23:19

So certainly something that you can't ignore when you're looking at both of these films is is how wildly different the approaches to the story are, right? In the 1977 version, you're actually seeing the beginning of a trilogy, um, which starts with you know this movie and then it continues with Inferno and then the Mother of Tears. But in this one, you kind of have all those things kind of mixed together. Now I haven't seen those other two films. Um I'm kind of just putting together context clues based on the 2018 version, but you know, for you guys as you're looking at this, how do you feel these stories were treated in terms of originality from both versions?

SPEAKER_07 23:54

I feel like the original was very original.

SPEAKER_04 23:58

Well, hot damn.

SPEAKER_07 23:59

Um, if you boil it down, it's essentially a story about a girl who joins a dance academy full of gold-digging witches, which good luck finding anything that compares to that as far as a narrative goes. Um and then I was really impressed with how well the remake told an entirely different story, just loosely based on the same premise. Did you guys feel like it was original?

SPEAKER_03 24:22

Witches trying to steal uh the souls of the young, um, not original. Hocus pocus. Hocus poke. Witches being bitches, seen it once, seen it twice. I mean, I thought it was I I thought it was original. It was a good watch. I mean, it was I wasn't what I was expecting. Um, both of them are different, same, same, but different. So I don't know. I thought it was it was pretty original for the whole and just you know, the settings, everything like that. I think they all tied to make them just completely different.

SPEAKER_01 24:54

They did a good job of uh bringing together age-old mythology and folklore into an original, an original story, you know, set with set with these characters in what was the modern day and now a period piece. So um I I think you know you get this feeling of everything involved being really ancient, but it's not like the same old demon story that we've all seen. It's not like exorcist, you know, too electric boogaloo or anything. It's it's this historical feeling brought together into this really crazy story, to be honest.

SPEAKER_06 25:32

Uh for me, the original, I I noticed a lot of similarities with um fairy tales in a lot of Disney movies. Like the very beginning, she's going into the woods, where it's gonna be this location where danger is gonna happen. Um and then she gets drugged nonstop, like Sleeping Beauty. It just it was little references like that. I'm like, I've seen that before.

SPEAKER_04 26:00

In a much more child-friendly way.

SPEAKER_07 26:04

Because drugging children is very child-friendly. Exactly. Exactly. Yes. I mean, ha have you seen Hansel and Gretel? I actually got vibes from the the remake of the new Hansel and Gretel. There were a lot of similarities there for me too.

SPEAKER_04 26:17

Gretel and Hansel? Yes, that's correct. Because ladies are coming first in 2020. I love it. I for sure have never seen anything like the original, and even better than that, I think, yeah. Not to say that I was completely in love with the 2018 version, but I certainly have not seen an approach to a remake in that way. Um, there are definitely a lot of little touches here and there that I feel like you know, I tend to bring the spirit of the 1977 version to life while still doing its own thing and trying not to live in its shadow. Um I have never cringed as much in a movie about dancing, ever, ever. And look, I enjoy dancing with the stars, and that's full of cringeworthy moments. But all that body horror uh, all that body horror that I know Alexis loves so much.

SPEAKER_03 27:12

The crunching sounds. That was like the craziest thing. That was the craziest scene scene. Speaking of like little nods, wasn't OG Susie like the doctor's wife in the 2018 version? Okay, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And she aged well. Very well.

SPEAKER_07 27:29

She aged into Sally Fields.

SPEAKER_03 27:32

She did look just like her.

SPEAKER_04 27:35

What certainly was, I think, even more original about the the reimagination was the way it approached the ending. Um, I know I already told you guys I was underwhelmed by Alexis. I know you found it terrifying. What about for you gentlemen, how did you feel about the ending of both movies?

SPEAKER_06 27:54

So I felt the original, um, I really enjoyed it, especially her having a conversation with an invisible force. Obviously, everything starts going to hell. And in the retelling, I have to put this out here. Um, even if you didn't like the movie, you have to give credit to Tilda Swinton for playing three characters in the movie.

SPEAKER_04 28:17

Oh, hell yeah.

SPEAKER_06 28:18

I mean, that is pure talent to me. But it's a lot to take in for the retelling, because that's when like literally everything goes crazy. And then if you notice throughout the process of the retelling, the color red actually becomes a character to where one of the only things I liked about it.

SPEAKER_04 28:39

But eh.

SPEAKER_06 28:40

It's the dominant force, and the whole scene is red. So it's a lot to take in, I think.

SPEAKER_03 28:46

I think it leaves you with like a she says a line, and you're like, wait, where did I come from? Did I miss something? Do I need to rewind the movie to watch it again? Luckily, it's not on VHS, that would literally take forever.

SPEAKER_07 29:00

I felt like the ending of the original was more traditional in the sense that the buildup was, I feel classic, uh, the pacing was right, and then you get this ending that was built up to enough to be satisfying, but then ended maybe a little bit too quickly for my taste. And then in complete contrast, the reimagining took what felt like an eternity to get to the ending, and then when by the time it got there, it just like peaked so hard that you're just kind of like shook and like don't really know how to process it when it's over. And then they attack on that little epilogue too, which uh we can talk about later. But I really look forward to talking about the the ending of the reimagining in much more detail after the spoiler section.

SPEAKER_03 29:42

Yeah, it's like a it's just they're just completely different. You have two completely different Susies.

SPEAKER_01 29:48

The I mean the movies are they treated the ending very very differently. And they got I mean, the the base story and and a lot of the same characters, of course, you know, throughout the movies. But as soon as you get to the end, I mean the the the 77 is like a it's like a light flow day.

SPEAKER_03 30:03

Oh my god. And uh yeah the hell if we weren't at your house, I'd say get the hell out.

SPEAKER_01 30:08

The twenty eighteen is a heavy flow day. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:11

Like he like he would know.

SPEAKER_04 30:13

I did not expect this to go there. And yet here we are.

SPEAKER_01 30:16

Here we are. Welcome. I do see where you're coming from now. Right, right. And I I don't mean visually, I just mean emotionally. Uh so the 77 did have that really abrupt ending. And I remember getting to it, and we were just like, wow, that's how this ended. This is super quick. Super quick and and immediate payoff, which which was nice after I mean that hour 45 or whatever it is felt a bit longer when I watched it, and then I made it to the two and a half hours or whatever it was, the twice as long version in the 2018, and we were just like, Can we just get there already? And when and when you get there, it is a lot, and then you're not done. Then there's another ending to it, and then there's like a final scene that you get left with. But oh yeah, um, I I I think what was what was weird for me in the 2018 is we have an added character to the mix, and that character, because they're added in, um needs their storyline to come to an end. And so I think that it definitely adds something in uh to the 2018 version, uh, to where that's gonna take a little bit more time all throughout the movie and and especially at the end. And I wasn't quite sure where we were going with you know what that character represented and what their story arc really meant. Um I still enjoy heavily enjoyed them on screen. Um, but it was a bit different from 77 for sure.

SPEAKER_04 31:44

Do you guys think you're gonna watch either of these movies again?

SPEAKER_06 31:47

Perhaps. I mean, I own them both, so probably.

SPEAKER_04 31:52

I mean, let's be real, a two and a half hour watch is not not a casual viewing.

SPEAKER_06 31:56

Neither is the Lord of the Rings.

SPEAKER_04 31:58

Um, yeah, yeah. But that's like a whole event. You gotta like, you know, put out some snacks for it. Do you have susperious snacks?

SPEAKER_07 32:06

Uh, yeah. You don't? I feel like the original you you can kind of put on because it's a vibe, it's a whole mood, and it can be applicable uh in more versatile ways. Like you could put it on the background, you could show it somebody for the first time. Um, but you have to be in the mood for something very specific to sit down and watch the 2018 version.

SPEAKER_03 32:28

Totally agree.

SPEAKER_07 32:28

And do I see myself having that craving again? Possibly.

SPEAKER_03 32:32

Like when you just want to sit at home, be depressed.

SPEAKER_04 32:36

If I want to sit at home and be depressed, but slightly empowered, I'll put on the perfection. Not pretty little liars. Oh, I mean, that's not depressing. That's just like I just want to throw myself into guilty pleasure.

SPEAKER_01 32:50

They both deserve a uh rewatch. I think I would like to add in the mood lighting next time. A little bit of the uh the red and the Phillips hue. Oh, it helps for sure. Yeah, that would that would be fun. I don't know what I would do with 2018, you know, put on like a beige color, maybe.

SPEAKER_07 33:03

Oh, I set up the lights in anticipation of having a similar experience. And then I was like, well, I should probably turn these off because this isn't happening.

SPEAKER_04 33:11

I feel like maybe the artwork for this episode should just be the picture of pears with his boot lighting. All right, folks, now there's a lot to unpack about both of these movies and quite a bit that we're gonna have to discuss with great detail in the spoiler section. Now, we're gonna start making our way there, but before we do, let's take the 1977 version first. Alexis, what's our body count? We got a nine. Niner.

SPEAKER_03 33:35

And yeah, yeah, we do. Not bad. A couple of those niners got me shook. Oh, yeah, they were an easy nine at all. Especially for something that's made in the 70s, too.

SPEAKER_04 33:44

Yeah. I made the mistake of putting this on while I was working because it was like a slow day, but I I had to quickly turn it off and give it the attention it deserves because I saw those first two deaths, I was like, ooh.

SPEAKER_03 33:55

But what about the 2018 version? That's gonna be 13. And it's so funny because I watched some of the 2018 while I was working, mostly the end, and I was like, wait, I need to stop this because I cannot be working and watching this ending at the same time and completely shook the rest of the day. But yeah, it's 13.

SPEAKER_07 34:14

Yeah, I wouldn't consider the new one a multitasking kind of movie.

SPEAKER_04 34:19

I mean, that's debatable, but we'll see. Now, how about the animal report for both films?

SPEAKER_01 34:25

Well, let's dive into that because I think we're clean for Animal Report. However, there is a there is a pup that engages in a little hostile behavior. So while the pup is okay, somebody else ain't. Let's just say that.

SPEAKER_04 34:39

All right, so clean animal report, but we definitely have sirens going for the bad dog alert.

SPEAKER_01 34:44

Bad dog, sit down.

SPEAKER_04 34:46

All right, folks. So let's go ahead and start getting into our ratings. We'll start with the OG, the 1977 Sesperia. Starting with, I think, the obvious win here. Uh Anthony, was it a hack or a slash?

SPEAKER_06 34:59

Oh, it was a total slash.

SPEAKER_03 35:01

Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 35:03

I should have said hack. It's a total hack. Don't watch it.

SPEAKER_03 35:07

I uh too. We'll give this a slash. I really enjoyed the technical error of it. Um, it was fun to watch. Um, it's one of those ones I probably won't watch for a while just because the 70s weren't like, you know, my favorite time to watch like a movies. But sorry, Chris. Well, you're more 80s, but I'm sure it also leaks into the 70s too. But yeah, I just I appreciate it for what it was. And even though I had seen the 2018 version before I had seen this one, I just think it's nice. It's an awesome contrast, and it's something that I've really never seen in film, and it it makes me like have more appreciation for this sort of elements.

SPEAKER_01 35:47

Cool. I'll I'll I'll jump in this this little bandwagon right here. I'm gonna give the 77 a slash. And I I think again, it's like going to a museum and just staring at a nice piece of art and soaking up every little drop of paint, and then like reading on the sidebar where they have the history of where the painting came from. There's just so much to take in, and then you learn more about it, about the background, about where it went with the trilogy that I think enhances it. But it's it's just an experience, it's not just a film you walk away from and throw out your popcorn container, it's something where you need to like really soak it up and and pay attention and catch these little these little motifs all the way throughout.

SPEAKER_07 36:23

Totes Mac. Um, usually I'm with Ryan and uh Alexis on these like old 1970s movies as being hard to watch and overall just bad. Um but this one's actually so good. Uh there's so many things about it that I love. The female element, the the dancing of it all, even though the original has almost no dancing whatsoever, but it's like there is a theme, uh, the gorgeous set design, um, a lot of the dialogue. I actually like this is a movie that I quote on a very regular basis for some of the lines that specifically a character named Olga says. Um we could talk about that later.

SPEAKER_05 36:57

This does not surprise me.

SPEAKER_07 37:00

Olga was a queen and an icon. Um but this movie's a total slash. Like you can put it on in the background, you can give it your full attention. It's so versatile. Um, and it's like we've alluded to, it's it's a whole mood, it's an experience, and it is a vibe that I thoroughly enjoyed.

SPEAKER_04 37:16

Wow. It's been a while since I heard that from you, Paris. Very nice.

SPEAKER_07 37:19

I know. I was excited for this one.

SPEAKER_04 37:22

Yeah. Uh we'll go ahead and round it out here. The 1977 Suspiria is a universal slash. It's so beautiful in so many different ways. And when you look at any other movie that probably has actors speaking in their native language and then overdumbing the English, that would be enough to just ruin the whole mood. But this somehow enhances it. And there's something about the universal excellence in their performances that makes that not lost on you at all. And let's be clear, not only is the color brilliant and a character in itself, the music is also incredible. And I've had the uh main like theme stuck in my head the since yesterday, since I watched it. Probably it is now in my top five favorite uh scores for horror film ever. But let's go ahead and move into the 2018 version. Uh, this movie was one that I enjoyed. Uh I do enjoy the different approaches that it took. I enjoyed uh you know, seeing starting off the story with Patricia instead of Susie to look a little bit about what the climate was like in the Dance Academy in in Berlin at the time. And you guys know I love some historical context. I do feel though that it was a little heavy-handed and just cluttered up the whole thing. And while there are so many great things I have to say about this movie in the next half, it actually gets a hack from me.

SPEAKER_07 38:52

Wow. I mean, I can agree with a lot of what you said, Chris. I feel like I'm on the same side as you just because there's so many things in this movie that I feel like were handled poorly. Um, specifically, there was a shot in the very beginning where Dakota Johnson first enters the dance academy, and like you see the interior and the architecture of it all, and like you're like, okay, here we are. We're about to see what they did with this space that was so iconic in the original. And like it was like a handheld shot that was so shaky and so like shoddily done that it was like totally flaccid for me. That plus like the entire edition of the Doctor character, like I can cut a solid 50 minutes out of this movie and make it better.

SPEAKER_04 39:28

Um love the doctor, love Tilda. What just unnecessary?

SPEAKER_07 39:32

Okay, we'll talk. But ultimately, the ending is what won this as a slash for me. It brought me back around. Um, the ending was so impactful and powerful that I was actually so obsessed with it. I watched, I actually rerund it afterwards and watched it all over again because I loved it so much. So let's talk about that after. What did you guys think? Hack or slash for this one?

SPEAKER_01 39:53

This was also a slash for me, but you know, for different reasons than the 77. I I think kind of going back to the filmmaker, I think you know it's apparent that he really cared about the 77 version. I think he he really loved it and it heavily influenced him, but he wanted to make his own film. Now, whether or not he should have, different story, but I I still think I I enjoyed watching it. And visually it was very different story-wise. Obviously, it was different. It still had the core and it didn't have to change things unnecessarily. It didn't have to, you know, add on too much. There's a little bit that it that it definitely added on. There's a couple, I think, a couple characters that we that we have added in there, lots of backstory that maybe we perhaps didn't need, but I think through all its through all its faults, through all the little you know, fat that we get added on, there's still some good some good protein mixed in. So it didn't have the same musical feeling for sure. Can't blame Tom York. It was still good music, just didn't feel like it necessarily fit as well as the soundtrack from 77. Um, but I think overall, as an experience, um it it did the original justice. I think perhaps if it had had a different name, you know, we might look at it a bit you know a little bit more easily. But as as a film on its own, I'm gonna give it a slash. I still enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_04 41:17

I don't know. I think its name is part of the only reason I like it a little bit.

SPEAKER_06 41:22

So I'm going to give it a slash as well.

SPEAKER_05 41:25

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_06 41:27

Actually, for kind of what already has been said about it, the ending really didn't bother me too much. I really enjoyed the fact that it was a different take on the story and the fact that while the original is very feels very dreamlike, very not of this world, I could appreciate the fact that the 18 version makes it set specifically during this time in this location. And I think with dealing the with the political tension and the social commentary that it's making, I think it was done in a very good job. And not only that, like when we were talking about with the movements with the camera, I could definitely see the inspiration of filmmaking in the 70s with this film. How there were dramatic zooms, very quick, handhelds. So I think it was somebody. This film was made by someone who absolutely did his research and tried to show that time period.

SPEAKER_04 42:40

Very fair. Let's see, uh, let's see how Alexis rounds us out.

SPEAKER_03 42:44

Your girl Susie is from Ohio, so this gets a slash, okay?

SPEAKER_04 42:48

Yeah, as soon as that one fat gets out there, Alexis is like, oh, that Midwest shit. I'm down.

SPEAKER_01 42:54

Hey, Mike McGuffin was like, she's like, oh, she's from Ohio. Oh, okay, Amish. Okay, I see it. Hey, Mennonite.

SPEAKER_03 43:01

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 43:02

Weren't they Amish?

SPEAKER_03 43:03

They're different. She is a Mennonite, but they're different.

SPEAKER_01 43:06

Okay. I thought I thought she said she was Amish and maybe I misheard. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 43:09

Yeah, yeah, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 43:10

You're good that I'm not look, I'm not from Ohio. All right.

SPEAKER_03 43:13

There's different classes of Amish, okay.

SPEAKER_04 43:17

As someone who is uh from South Florida, I am unaware.

SPEAKER_07 43:20

I am from Lancaster, Pennsylvania. Uh I can confirm there's different sects of Amish in Mennonite culture.

SPEAKER_03 43:27

The things you know, yeah. Um, I love uh the brutality in this. Um I love how it just makes the area you're giving these flashbacks, you're giving this stuff, like even the way they're working the camera with the split, split focus. It just like gives me all these like terror, like like I'm terrified like watching this. Like it's just like some like something that's nagging at me. And then 1977 did that too with the music, but this one just put it on another level for me. Like I was just like super in tune, and I too. Thoroughly enjoyed the ending of this as well. The little bloodbath at the end that we get.

SPEAKER_04 44:05

I'm in a room full of strangers, but it's okay. I love you anyway. Well, there you have it, folks. The 1977 Susperia earned a universal slash, and much to my chagrin, it only earned one hack on the 2018 version and four slashes. Now we have a lot to unpack here. We have a lot to break down, especially with this ending that, quite frankly, I am confused by how everybody can love, but we'll get there. You can find both of these movies on streaming services. You can find the original 1977 version on Tubi for free. Or you can find the 2018 version streaming with Amazon Prime. Give both movies a watch, quite frankly. I think many here would recommend that you actually own one or more versions of this. Uh but give it a watch and then join us in the second half where we figure out where the hell I went wrong with the 2018 version. We'll see you in a bit. And four out of the five of us gave the 2018 version a slash, and that was the only one on Hack Street. But before we get into all that good stuff, Alexis the Gore score. Let's start maybe with the 1977 version so we can ease our way in.

SPEAKER_03 45:51

Ver a lot of gore in this movie. I was surprised though that a lot of the gore took place in the beginning, uh, mostly in the first scene or the um first like kill scene that we have. And this is my level of gore.

SPEAKER_04 46:04

Uh so You mean you're into open bleeding hearts? What?

SPEAKER_03 46:08

Yeah, yeah. It was crazy because I s like it was just so visceral and so like, oh gosh, it was like something I wasn't expecting. I was like, holy crap, this movie is gonna be this is what it's gonna be. It's gonna be like a torture kind of thing. But I was like, this doesn't really necessarily kind of have this movie rub me um that way when I first watched it. Uh well when I first heard about it. Yeah, that first scene, it's funny because that is not my favorite death, as you guys might think it would be. It's definitely the um blind guy. Oh, Daniel. Yes, betrayed by his own pooch? I know. So I think what was crazy was just I wasn't even sure, and that's what this movie does with the like the score. It's just I'm like, what's going on? I'm like looking everywhere, and also I was watching this on my phone with headphones in. So I could hear the chanting.

SPEAKER_04 47:00

You're crazy.

SPEAKER_03 47:01

I know, right? And I was like, why'd I pick this one? Because you could hear the chanting. And I was like thinking it was someone outside, so I kept pulling my headphones out. I was like, is someone talking outside? Um it was crazy, it was just a little drawn out for me, but it was so unexpected. I mean, I knew something was gonna happen, but the last thing you thought was a dog was gonna turn around and start chomping on his neck. And although, like, I know, you know, there wasn't a lot of like CGI. Well, there wasn't a lot, there wasn't any CGI pretty much back then. They did it where I still thought him chomping on his neck and eating that flesh. The way the camera angle worked, it was still like I thought I was like, okay, there is no disconnect here, like it's still one scene. I'm not like, yeah, this is what they did in the 70s because they couldn't and like they didn't have what they have today. That's the power of practical effects. Yes, yes, which I truly appreciate now. Like seeing other things.

SPEAKER_07 47:59

This movie definitely helps you appreciate them.

SPEAKER_03 48:01

Yeah, and definitely comparing this to the other movie as well. Anthony, I'd love to hear about like I know you're talking about this before, but the blood in this, how it was like so bright, and what your thoughts were on that.

SPEAKER_06 48:11

So for me, I really enjoyed the fact that it was non-realistic. Um, because it just kind of added to the fact that this isn't l in our realm of reality. What's to say that that color isn't that in their story? And I think it just overall it helped pop with the boldness and the aesthetic of the look. That typically, if you see a movie, uh B movie, that that color would be it, you would think, oh god, the that looks terrible. Like, that's obviously not blood. But for this movie, I think it works very well for it.

SPEAKER_04 48:51

For sure. Kind of like uh we were just saying, you know, we were kind of traveled in time for our episodes. You'll hear it next week, listener, about what we think about some of the blood in the movie Graduation Day from 1981. But I will say that during this particular death, there's a point where she is hanging, and then you can see the pool of blood beneath her. And I remember being like, oh, this is underwhelming. This is an unreasonable low amount of blood on this floor. But then it pans over and you see Sonia impaled with a beam and the glass shard, and I was like, what is this?

SPEAKER_07 49:25

They heard you. They were like underwhelming, you say? Keep watching.

SPEAKER_04 49:30

Let's just swish it up a bit. Yeah, this was traumatizing to look at. That was the point where I actually had to turn it off and revisit after work was complete because looking at that gore, I knew I was gonna be in for a ride that I like I expected gore, but this was clearly more than I expected.

SPEAKER_03 49:48

Yeah, but it's crazy that it still fit. And I think that's what Anthony is saying. Like, who's to say this doesn't this sort of kill doesn't like fit, or these sort of kills don't fit? Because I was like, none of these seemed over the top to me. Now, like, oh we gotta give this some gore, throw it, have someone hanging from the ceiling, you know, and then someone impaled next. You know, it wasn't like it was shocking, but I don't think it was like, wow, they just went way overboard on this.

SPEAKER_04 50:13

You know what was more terrifying than that glass shard in her face? The armhair on that goblin ghoul that was pulling her.

SPEAKER_01 50:21

Do you mean the director's arm?

SPEAKER_06 50:22

I was gonna say fun trivia. That's Dario Argento.

SPEAKER_04 50:25

It was gross, didn't like it.

SPEAKER_01 50:27

I'm glad I only have the light smattering of armhair.

SPEAKER_04 50:30

A weird thing for me, body hair disgusts me. Don't like it. Same. I shame everything. Okay, Alexis.

SPEAKER_01 50:39

I I really like the fact, you know, in the 77 version, you have this this bright red blood, you have these very apparent kills, and and it's it's all very deliberate choices. Um I I kind of feel like we're so used to seeing realistic looking blood that when you see it in film, you're not really taking it back anymore. You're just kind of like, oh, someone's baiting or whatever. So when you go back and watch a movie that has this really stylized blood, whether it's just the best they could do or deliberate choice, it's really bold and it's really in your face and it and it really kind of catches you. So all the kills are are just like very apparent. And if we had to get to favorites, my my favorite's probably Sarah's death in the 77. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:21

The barbed wire? Yeah. But not barbed.

SPEAKER_01 51:24

The razor Yeah, I don't I don't know if you guys like it. Yeah, we did notice while we're watching that the that wasn't it wasn't barbed. The razor wire, yeah. But hey, it did actually hurt the actress a little bit to jump in there. And she like found out on the day of filming they got it done in one take, which was nice too. Um, but it it didn't hurt her that badly didn't like cut her arms off or anything, but you know, she I think she said something about feeling like ants had bitten her all over.

SPEAKER_07 51:49

I mean it hurt me to watch that, like like just that quick step and then a fall into a pit of barbed wire. I was like, ooh, that's really awful, and I hate that. And it's going on. The lighting there was so good.

SPEAKER_04 51:59

It's like you see like this blue light cast on just like this pit of darkness. Like, you know, as soon as if she doesn't hit that that little white bright spot she's done for, yeah. And then uh as she's buried in the razor wire, she didn't even come close. Yeah, as she's buried in that razor wire, you see like the spot that she would have been okay at, like that window, like just on the other side is normal light, and just ugh, it's so sad.

SPEAKER_07 52:23

I honestly felt like the gore was actually like pretty tasteful, but I have a weird tolerance. Um I thought the first death was like cute and fun. Uh Sarah's death was pretty painful to watch, but still like enjoyable. For me, the actual like grossest part of this movie was when uh Susie is dumping all of that food in the toilet.

SPEAKER_03 52:41

Oh, that was pretty gross.

SPEAKER_07 52:43

And like the camera is literally inside that toilet as if like my face was in there, and just the sounds and the sight of it all, I was like, this is fucking nasty.

SPEAKER_03 52:52

Question though. Was that blood in the cup?

SPEAKER_07 52:56

Yes, totally.

SPEAKER_03 52:57

Because I was like, oh, it's a little too thick to be one hundred.

SPEAKER_07 53:02

In my mind, it was menstrual blood, but that might just be me. Witches do that stuff. Period blood is very powerful.

SPEAKER_03 53:09

Name a witch movie that they do that. Cisperi, 1977.

SPEAKER_01 53:13

The Love Witch. It was in Hocus Pocus, you don't remember that?

SPEAKER_03 53:17

The Witches of Eastwick.

SPEAKER_01 53:19

The deleted scenes. The deleted scenes of Hocus Pocus, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 53:23

They actually, oh my god, if Hocus Pocus was a horror movie, yes, I need it. In my life, I need it.

SPEAKER_04 53:32

Well, depending on what website you go to that has shitty horror merchandise, you may find Hocus Pocus in the horror section. I've been burned.

SPEAKER_01 53:39

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_03 53:41

I meant like a my style kind of with hot dog style cuts. Possibly. Or maybe they string all the kids up and then have buckets underneath to get to collect their blood. Probably scaring everyone in Mac's house right now.

SPEAKER_04 53:52

Now, Alexis, there's some big differences here. Take us through the gore score for the 2018 version.

SPEAKER_03 53:58

Well, it's funny because when I started watching the 77 version and just saw like the kind of gore that was it kind of played the same. It was like you get like a kill and then that like a super iconic scene in both movies, and it starts in the beginning, and then you're like, okay, but they have a smaller effect on you, in my personal opinion, until you get to the end. So this clearly has all the blood in it and has all the gore, which is why I loved this. I love how it took just like a straight-up approach. There's no hiding, no anything in this. And clearly, I really want to talk about the pretzel.

SPEAKER_01 54:33

Uh salted.

SPEAKER_03 54:36

It might have been salted. That was amazing. That sort of I I'm assuming it was an contortionist Mac.

SPEAKER_01 54:45

I actually don't. I didn't look that up. You know, I was gonna ask you guys if you knew. I didn't look it up, but that's what we were assuming when watching it. I actually didn't even wonder that. Because we're like, there's no way they could have CGI'd it that well. I just thought it was magic.

SPEAKER_03 54:57

It was magic, but she had to get somewhere from that. But that whole that scene is just crazy. And I and I appreciate this movie because it doesn't ever back off on a certain scene, like it's super straight in your face, and that's in that scene, it definitely is. It doesn't turn around when her jaw is like moving to the side. You completely see that motion, and that is just like so terrifying, so terrifying. And Olga's body then goes to get like hooked, and it's all these stuff dug in by these witches after that, and you're like, oh my gosh, like she's definitely dead after this. Well, spoiler alert, she's actually still alive, which is freak supernatural or not, she's still alive. Yeah, so there's that scene, and then we can um I think we could talk about the gore about the end a little bit later, but I think it was very meaningful towards the end and what it meant for the entire uh new covet.

SPEAKER_01 55:57

Can I can I to backtrack for one second before we get there? I sorry, I had to look it up since we know this new. And uh, she is a really good dancer. So the actress who plays Olga is is a professional dancer, well trained in everything. Um but the filmmaker says they were able to accomplish this um with 80% of the effect being just all the actress.

SPEAKER_03 56:17

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 56:18

Yeah, which is the the fact that like 100% of it wasn't CGI is amazing, but the fact that most of it was just her ability is is crazy.

SPEAKER_07 56:26

Work, bitch.

SPEAKER_03 56:29

Yeah, but like so a lot of this gore is also tied to the ending, too. So I think it's starts off or has this huge scene at the beginning and then a huge scene at the end where gore and that sort of like use and visceralness and like horrible things happening to people is in the beginning and the end, and usually it's all inflicted on people. But um, I don't necessarily know if I have a favorite kill in this everything in this. So I'd love to know what you guys like think about like the gore. Was it too much?

SPEAKER_01 56:56

It wasn't over the top for me. I wasn't I was not surprised until we made it to the ending. And then even then it was it was really masked by the lighting and by the kind of jittery camera movement slash like weird frame rate we have going on, so you didn't have to like stare at heads exploding too much, which was which would have gotten old, I think, after about two or three of them. Um but it was it was all kind of a nice blur.

SPEAKER_07 57:20

Speak for yourself.

SPEAKER_01 57:23

You wanted that?

SPEAKER_07 57:24

Oh, I I relished every moment. I bet you relished when she like opened up her chest and it was like just tits, nips, opening up her chest, big demon mouth inside. Ooh.

SPEAKER_04 57:36

Candyman vibes gives me chills.

SPEAKER_07 57:38

The mother of size.

SPEAKER_04 57:39

I wish Ryan was here to watch the uh nude women dancing while all these heads are still exploding around them. They would have been great strippers, by the way. Who says they aren't?

SPEAKER_01 57:51

I do like that one of the two nude men we see in this movie was actually played by a woman. Yeah. That's nice.

SPEAKER_04 57:56

Anthony, how about you? How do you feel about the gore in the tw in the 2018 version?

SPEAKER_06 58:00

I'm surprised it didn't bother me as much. I definitely wasn't expecting the ending. And just because I had been following like the news about this movie since its conception and heard about their uh sneak peek clip at one of the film festivals, and like people were walking out. I knew that the pretzel scene was gonna be intense, but honestly, no, like I never felt at one point like I needed to stop watching it.

SPEAKER_01 58:33

I didn't hear about people walking out. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_06 58:36

Yeah, uh they they were so disgusted with it, they said no.

SPEAKER_04 58:41

And it was during lunch, so that's a bad time to go watch a horror movie anytime.

SPEAKER_05 58:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 58:49

And breakfast, I'll admit. The the pretzel scene in particular was such a re a redeeming moment for me, just because right before that, Tilda Swinton, as Madame Blanc, touches uh Suzy's like hands and feet. You see these little like glowing witch icons, and I was like, whoa whoa whoa, what the hell is this bullshit? And so I wasn't happy about that. And then immediately they gave me the pretzel scene. I was like, man, they're playing with my heart and they know what they're doing, these little assholes.

SPEAKER_07 59:22

Honestly, the pretzel scene for me was actually not one of my favorite parts, mostly because Olga got really done dirty this time around. Uh justice for Olga. Um, but I also feel like it went on just a little bit too long. Like I enjoyed it, I loved the brutality, the the graphic nature, and how unafraid they were to show you every nasty detail. But there was like a point where I was like almost bored, and I was like, How desensitized are you gonna make me in this first kill where I'm like bored of watching this girl get folded up and do it into pieces?

SPEAKER_03 59:53

I thought it was a perfect, it kept me like on edge the entire time that I was like, There's more, there's more, oh my god, and there's still more. That's just me though. So, Paris, what was your favorite kill?

SPEAKER_07 1:00:04

Um, probably just like every kill at the end.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:07

It was so justified, right?

SPEAKER_07 1:00:09

The whole ending just really did it for me. One right after the other. Actually, you know what? If I had to pick a favorite, it would be Sarah. Because you kind of see Dakota Johnson go on this like killing spree, and you're like, oh, she's this merciless bitch and she's just killing everybody. Um but then she goes up to like her friends and she's like, What do you want? And they're like, Oh, we want to die. And then she's like, I'll give that to you, and I'll give that to you peacefully. Come into my bosom and I'll give you a sweet release of death. So I thought that was like really cute and kind of like rounded out her as a character. As like she's not just this explicitly malevolent being. She's more it's more complicated than that.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:44

I I didn't s say that the pretzel's mine, but I can kind of go along with that because it was the most fun visually, I think, for for for all the kills. I really wish we would have gotten something crazier for Sarah this go-round, but I'm I'm happy she at least got something sweet and peaceful, you know, from Death Incarnate. But I I think the pretzel was the most shocking to see.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:09

The leg breaking for Sarah in that hole which is just like summoned there.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:13

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:14

That hurt my soul so much. And Sarah was alright in the original, but I really liked her in this one. She seemed very sensible, she seemed to like really care about her friends. Oh, yeah. The moment that she snaps her leg, and like it gives this whole new meaning to break a leg before your big show. But her her agony hurt me so much, and I wish I I feel like she did deserve better. I I was happy that she got the sweet release of death to quote Paris, but her death, while not the most vicious, for some reason was the most heartbreaking for me. So obviously there's gonna be a lot to unpack here. I think we can actually start with uh the ending of the 2018 version because I think that is kind of where a lot of the differences kind of stem from, uh, in terms of why we all feel the way we do.

SPEAKER_07 1:02:06

So the ending for me, like I said before, is the thing that turned this around for me because throughout the whole movie I was like, there's some parts that I like, but this is gonna be a hack. Um and then the ending was dealt with in just such a way that I literally just felt I felt empowered. I felt like a woman. Okay. I felt Dakota Johnson really sold it to me, and like she kind of earned all of the performance that like she made the the rest of her performance make sense with how she handled this final scene. And I actually read online where some people were saying that she like was miscast for that role, but I feel like she actually did a very good job. Um and just her unleashing her seemingly limitless power on a group of women who had been truly abusing theirs was so satisfying and just really much more potent, I think, than the ending in the original. And that's something that I will probably go back to and just rewatch the ending multiple times throughout the rest of my life.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:07

It's like your motivational like video you watch, like to start your week off. Yes.

SPEAKER_07 1:03:12

Yes. I would love to just recreate this scene for like a music video or something.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:16

So I think what keeps me from enjoying the ending was Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:03:22

How did you not love this, Chris? Tell me.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:24

It just seemed excessive. Hey, it seemed excessive, and also uh Marcos looked like a like a dying chop of the hut in witch form. That's all it was.

SPEAKER_07 1:03:35

Like a slug. She was like 400 years old. She had like a dead baby hand on her arm. That actually made me laugh.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:40

But that in itself just felt so cheesy to me. Like I couldn't take it seriously. Yeah. I think like when you have this uh invisible force from the 1977 version, like Anthony was mentioning, when you have that, and then you have this withered old deteriorating vessel, it at one point I thought she had like a really weird like nipple thing going on. It was just distracting. It was distracting, really. So we have that, and then I loved the tension with Madame Blanc and how she was gonna stop everything, and like how you see how like how this relationship between her and Susie has built up. But then for Susie to be revealed as what she was, and then for like death to be summoned to just start killing bitches all over the place, uh I don't know. It just went super sideways for me. And then it's like these men are guilty, and then they're like everywhere. It's like okay, so when where does that where does that fit with the rest of the movie? Because these witches are just here grooming women and abusing them to I guess be a sacrifice to to Marcos, but at what point does the man hating and the man bashing come in? Because it just didn't feel like it was there the whole time.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:54

I think earlier in the movie though, they make they give you like subtle hints that that she's not what she seems. So, you know, being drawn to Berlin from an early age towards towards Marcos, towards this goal she needed to achieve, which was taking out the imposter. Um when she starts like psychically communicating with with Blanc, I mean that was I was like, Oh, this is all of a sudden, she's like totally bought in. And I think I really loved during the final you know scene of the the witch killing when Blanc realizes something is wrong, when she can like sense that this this is going about to go sideways for them. So I think they tried to give you like you know, this these weird little hints along the way. And we had some of that in in the 77. We had some of that where she's like feels drawn to all of this and she can hear things and count footsteps and all that kind of stuff. But I think the 2018 one did it specifically to give her this like greater purpose because she doesn't have this like fearful running away that we see in the 77. She's like fully embracing everything that's going on.

SPEAKER_07 1:05:57

Yeah, she goes deeper.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:58

To be clear, I'm not mad about Susie. Fate, I think the whole thing was just a little excessive when it was finally revealed. It's just like she's suddenly losing her shit. Like it just it felt a little excessive there. I wasn't mad with a different approach. I think if they had taken the same approach, it would have been boring. I wasn't not picking up on the signs.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:15

I didn't enjoy the music in the in that scene. The music was so just weirdly placed. It just like didn't add, and it kind of ruined the mood when we started to hear it a bit more. We were kind of making fun of it. It's like, oh, we're in we're in like a radio head, you know, like uh music video right now.

SPEAKER_07 1:06:32

Even with like all the naked women like huffing and puffing and chanting.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:36

Even even then, it just it was just a really weird scene, and the slow motion slash weird frame rate thing we had going on kind of detracted from it a little bit for me as well.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:46

Seemed like an accident more than anything.

SPEAKER_07 1:06:48

Honestly, watch it again under better circumstances. Just for the fun of it.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:54

So with the ending, okay. Um, I think with the retelling, it it was made and closed up in a way that it wasn't going to have a sequel. That's how I read it. With the original, I feel like okay, we have one thing accomplished. We took care of this, but we have two other films we're gonna end up doing. So that's kind of how I read it. Um, it's not fully done, it's only just with this one mother out of the three mothers, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:30

Oh.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:31

Have you seen the rest of the movies in the trilogy?

SPEAKER_07 1:07:33

Yeah, I was gonna ask that.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:35

I have. Yeah, I really Inferno, Inferno is very similar to Suspiria. Um, and then the mother of tears, like some 20 years went by and then he made it. And it kind of you don't have to see that one, honestly, because it it just it loses all of the character that Inferno and Suspiria have. That it just doesn't feel like it belongs to the trilogy.

SPEAKER_07 1:08:05

If that makes sense. But Inferno's definitely worth watching.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:08

It is, absolutely, and there are quite some interesting death scenes in that one as well.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:14

So I think I'm I'm curious, and this is probably because I had a hard time keeping track of like who was who in the 2018 remake. I'm curious about the lore of the three mothers, the three witches. What is the deal with them?

SPEAKER_06 1:08:29

So, with the three mothers, they're sisters and they rule over each section. There's one that's in Rome, Berlin, and New York. So obviously, we're going or we're in Berlin, Inferno is in New York, and then the Mother of Tears is in Rome. And essentially they rule that area. Like they're the three strongest witches ever. Love that. Yeah, it's it's really interesting to see and see how this story starts evolving. And I think they also the three work well alone, but it's like you still have to have them.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:15

Like they're all connected and you have to have like they can't just operate indep independently of each other.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:21

Correct.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:22

Mm-hmm. I was getting vibes in this movie, and Alexis, I think this is just because you and I were watching Sabrina. I was getting a lot of Sabrina vibes in the remake. Like when they're doing that like informal vote, I'm like, this is a very casual way to vote on your next leader. Or like who is gonna continue. It's like a general election while they're like preparing a meal. It just seemed kind of silly to me.

SPEAKER_07 1:09:47

With that part, I did like how they didn't show anyone casting their vote, but then at the end they showed like cuts of them doing it as they were being killed.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:55

Yeah, yeah. Except they had to show them their vote while they're still dressed up in their attire to remind you, oh yeah, that that thing that happened. Yeah, this is the face with the name as their head explodes.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:08

I like in the 77 how they're like really powerful witches, but they still can be ended in a way. Um, I don't know, you know, Anthony, does that continue into the other two films? Are they are they finite?

SPEAKER_06 1:10:23

Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:24

And I see that I appreciate.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:25

Yeah, they're they're definitely not like indestructible.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:29

That adds something to their character where they have this real risk to to them, versus in 2018 where they're just like an eternal force that's you know, predating all of modern religion or whatever.

SPEAKER_07 1:10:40

That's true. And like manipulating the outcome of like wars and politics. Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:44

Shady witches, man. Shady witches. You know, what's it out to you guys uh uh out of either of these films as probably like the best, most shining moment of them? And uh perhaps we can start with Paris.

SPEAKER_07 1:10:56

Um, so for the original, my favorite part of this movie is Olga and the two scenes that she's in. Um, I know Alexis earlier said that she was kind of pointless, but I feel like she served a very specific purpose, which was establishing for Susie to trust no bitch. And I feel like she did that very well. She comes in with one of my favorite lines from any movie ever, like with all the girls like in the locker room just gabbing and talking with the squawk, squawk, squawk. Um, that's one of my favorite lines. I quote this on a regular basis when I walk into a busy room.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:31

Can confirm I've seen him do it several times.

SPEAKER_07 1:11:34

It just has power, you know? Um, but then she kind of says, like, people around here are like all very like focused on money and things like that, kind of letting her know like what this place kind of is. And then when they're back at her house and she's on the phone being super shady, while also like kind of half having a conversation with Susie, but not really caring what she has to say. Um, I feel like that just really lets Susie know that, like, yeah, you're here with a bunch of girls dancing, but you aren't completely alone in this, except for Sarah, which who we later befriend.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:01

Why do you like her?

SPEAKER_07 1:12:02

Who, Olga?

SPEAKER_04 1:12:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:12:04

Because she was okay, she was beautiful. She had amazing clothes.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:08

She just sounds awful.

SPEAKER_07 1:12:09

She's my kind of girl. She she gives it to you like it is. She's gonna be up front with you. Um, and she's not a fake bitch like some of these other girls that in this academy. I was disappointed that there was like nothing to be heard from her afterwards, and that's always been my gripe with the original is that Olga needed more, like at least like kill Olga or something.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:28

I mean, maybe she died in that fiery explosion.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:31

I want to see it. I'm I'm curious how you guys felt about the the suicidal witch in the uh 2018 version.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:40

They didn't get it.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:41

Yeah, I so my my thought was like, okay, did she like foresee that this was you know the real the real mother about to show back up? Is that what happened? Was she like, oh no, this is getting too real, I gotta off myself? Maybe I could see that.

SPEAKER_07 1:12:56

I'm just I was really confused about that. Because they did show her they showed her any time um Dakota Johnson was like showing her power, so maybe like she was receptive to that. But also that entire time I thought that that character was one of the Tilda Swintons. Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:10

Wait, was she not?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:12

No, apparently not.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:13

What?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:13

No, so Tilda played, of course, Blanc. She played the doctor, and then she played um the old gross looking mother.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:22

Get the fuck out of here.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:26

Alright, my mind is blown, and also I'm a little disappointed now.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:30

Yeah, that's why I said she uh played three characters in this.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:34

I just thought the third character was the suicidal witch.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:38

Oh no.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:38

I'm like, wow, that's a lame way to go out, Tilda. Wow, I have to like go rethink my life now. I still don't like Marcos.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:47

No. I don't think you're Marcos. Not good.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:50

No, I mean I don't like the performance of Marcos.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:53

Oh, okay. Yeah. The the the makeup was not my favorite. I would have preferred something along the lines of like, I don't know if you remember from Hellraiser, where that one character is like coming back together from blood and sinew and everything. I would have preferred something really grotesque like that. But maybe that would have been too much to show on screen when they're about to introduce a bloodbath. I don't know. Maybe it would have maybe it would have fit. But uh I I think favorite-wise for me from from both films, uh starting with the newer one, um, I I love how they they went a little bit further into some of the lore. And so we got to see that room of like weird little trinkets and statues and everything, uh, because we got to kind of see where some of their mythology kind of lays. The the pokey things, whatever those little hooks are, we didn't really get too deep into that, and that was a bummer because they were kind of cool. I wanted to learn something neat about those.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:43

Did you like it because they were poking penises?

SPEAKER_01 1:14:46

No, definitely that's definitely not one reason that I would enjoy that thing at all. I I actually thought, like, oh, they're gonna stab them. I don't know. Lexus is looking at me with a smirk, so I didn't remember that.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:56

I I know you don't want to know it was going through my head. I was like, do they really look like that? I mean, I know what they look like, but Oh Alexis.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:04

They're about to give him what is that, the uh Prince Albert. Ooh.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:07

They were just like slap. It was like, uh, oh nasty witches.

SPEAKER_07 1:15:12

Speaking of penises, apparently Tilda Swinton insisted that a prosthetic penis be made for her when she was playing the Doctor Naked uh on the floor of the sacred chamber or whatever.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:21

Classic Tilda.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:22

That's some Marky Mark level uh prostheses right there. The 20 the 1977 version, though, I I think if I had to pick something, you know, just generally kind of like favorite about it, is they had this really random cast of characters supporting them in the dance company or in the dance school or whatever, that they were just like really varied versus in 2018. I think they all seem to be independent but fairly in line in their goal. In the original, we of course have you know the dog's owner who gets malt to death, the um piano player, if I remember correctly, um, who's one way. And then we have the kind of weird oafish guy that's helping them out. I don't know what his deal was. Yeah. But that was that was interesting. Then there was like a kid, so that was interesting, but there was like all these weird little characters kind of adding to it. And I and I like that kind of hodgepodge feeling. It's kind of like a Frankenstein thing.

SPEAKER_07 1:16:18

Pablo's is very ugly, Mac. Don't be afraid to say so.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:23

Leave that man alone. He was just there doing his job, doing his thing.

SPEAKER_07 1:16:27

That is a quote from the movie. I'm just saying, man. That's what the that's what the teacher says when she introduces him.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:33

Pablo deserves better.

SPEAKER_07 1:16:34

I like the the comedy element that um the original had too. Like Olga brought some of that, the teacher brought some of that with her, like how curt she was with people, and then even like the owner, she's like, Don't mind her, she's like that even with me. Um, and I found that there were like very small uses of humor in the remake, specifically when uh Dakota's like doing her initial performance for everybody, and I guess like one of the other witches like brought Marcos in, like, and like kept her in like a storage closet and told us, like, you didn't tell me you were gonna bring her, and you just like dumped her in this closet, and she's like, Well, yeah, I had to. She wanted to be here. I thought that was like an underrated comedic moment.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:09

I have a I have a very troubling question that's been on my mind, and maybe this does fare a little bit into the comedic territory. Why does no one in the 1977 version seem to care about shoe size? Like they just casually go, Oh, you can borrow someone else's shoes. And this girl's like, Hey, I I need to borrow some shoes. Anybody have any? Oh, yeah, I have some. You want to buy them for 50 bucks? But at no point is there a discussion of the size.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:32

Well, because they're they're doing ballet, right? Yeah, they're point shoes.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:35

Yeah, but are there's that like one size fits all? Like, what's up?

SPEAKER_01 1:17:38

I think they like stuff them with stuff. Because if they're doing ballet, they just deal with the pain if it's too small. Probably not far off. If your toes turn black and fall off, it's fine. Just do it, do it for the love of dancing.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:49

I think this kind of goes back to the original um idea that Dario Argento wanted to do, which was all of the characters were actually supposed to be 12 years or younger. So, you know, when you're 12 years old, or I would say even 10, you're not asking people what their shoe size is. Can I borrow your shoes? So, and that kind of explains a lot with like the dialogue, too. Like, if you notice how they communicate and talk to each other, it's very juvenile-like. Definitely.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:24

Definitely. Yeah, Olga is an immature bitch.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:27

But she's the head immature bitch.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:29

That's super interesting, though. I was not aware of that.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:32

They could have gone that direction in 2018. Like, I feel like now we have so many child actors whose parents would be like, Yeah, whatever, I don't care what you show them. It'll be fine. The audience will love it.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:42

Do you really think so? Because I mean, look, a lot of things in the 2018 version got very erotic very quickly.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:47

Oh, yeah, it was very sexual. We didn't have to go into all that with 10-year-olds, but you know, the violence and stuff. I'm sure these 10-year-olds are like, whatever. I watched that when I was five. And now here we are.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:56

I don't know if I could take it seriously when you think about it, because Susie is just like an undercover boss that like comes out. I don't know if I could take it seriously as a 10-year-old.

SPEAKER_07 1:19:07

I would watch it for sure. I don't know if I would like it.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:10

I think it's also like the um we look at the remake of Pet Cemetery, right? There's a decision that is made in that movie specifically because they feel like it would have been lost on like having a child, a real child, um, you know, play this pivotal role. And I I I'm kind of glad they stayed away from the 2018 version with the direction they took in tone. But that's really interesting, Anthony. I had no idea. Um I didn't even pick up on the dialogue. I thought they were like kind of like immature young girls, but I didn't realize oh, they're supposed to be young girls.

SPEAKER_07 1:19:45

Smoking cigarettes.

SPEAKER_06 1:19:47

Well, another thing that uh Argento kind of left to it was if you look when they're opening doors and everything, it's at about their head level. All the handles.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:57

What?

SPEAKER_06 1:19:58

That's true. There were really tall doorways. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:01

I just assume they're really short girls. I live that life.

SPEAKER_07 1:20:06

Just that delicious, brutalist architectural style in Germany. With all of the scenes with Susie like wandering around the academy, I definitely got the vibe of like Alice in Wonderland, like being very small and like in this mystical world. So that tracks.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:21

I was rather impressed by like the velvety texture of all those walls. And I I imagine I really want to see a prequel of this movie that really just looks into the logistics of how these witches run their business. Like, who are they getting who are they getting these walls from? Uh, how are the what is their marketing like? Even in the 2018 version, it's like, oh yeah, I've seen the documentary a hundred times. I've gone to see you, Madame Blanc, a hundred times. Like, I want to know about that backstory. I want to see these witches doing their regular thing without grooming their next harvest.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:56

Walls, did you take a look at that flooring though? Those tiles were amazing. Yeah, you can't beat the set design in the original.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:01

This is true. What stood out to you folks as something that kind of left you wanting more that you were disappointed in in either version of this movie?

SPEAKER_03 1:21:09

I can't really think of a point where I was wanting more. Um, there were definitely some points where I wanted less, um, specifically more in the 2018 version. I'm sure there was some reason that they had for um to have this historical piece and have um just like a subplot of all of this going on. Um I just felt like I feel like the only purpose it served for me was to make um the environment seem more bleak instead of having another purpose other than that, which I think would have cut down on the time as well.

SPEAKER_07 1:21:44

Totally, Alexis. I could have done without all of that added backstory of like the times and the historical context of it all, and truly just cut the entire doctor out of the movie, and it's so much better for me.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:57

To this day, I still don't know the purpose of the doctor, aside from giving uh the original actress a cameo and also making us a little sad and making Susie seem more benevolent as a witch.

SPEAKER_07 1:22:09

Also Chloe Grace Moretz in the beginning.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:11

Yeah, but I mean we I feel like we could have just seen her with her friends. She was wonderful. I would did want to see more of her.

SPEAKER_07 1:22:16

Oh, I mean I could have done without that entire scene.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:18

Oh, what?

SPEAKER_07 1:22:19

Really? Yeah. I love Chloe Grace Moretz. So to see this like this be like the peak of her performance in this movie, I was very bummed because it was useless to me.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:28

You know what? You didn't like her uh, I'm gonna be an old decrepit person withering away, and then as soon as I see you leave, I'm just gonna go back to sleep now, turns back around.

SPEAKER_07 1:22:39

I mean that part was kind of cute, but like the her therapy session with the doctor, I was like, this is not good.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:45

It it did go towards the whole um you know point they make later in the film that that men, you know, brush women off as being delusional, or that they don't take them seriously, because that's the whole point of witches. The reason they as an idea exists is because we just want to tear down women and take away their power, so we classify them as witches, and then we have a reason to uh then attack them. But I think we could have done actually with a little bit more um with with Chloe's character, um, but that's just because she's so she's so good, I think. Because we lose Patricia early in the movie in the 77 version as well, and it it kind of sets the stage for something crazy is about to go down at this school where this girl just came from, and and now you now you know it's a real thing, and this girl's just not making it up. But I going yeah, going back to that, the whole like setting the historical stage thing in the in the 2018 version, it it does ruin a bit of of that like isolation and feeling like you're lost in nowhere feeling that we get in in 77 where it's really kind of removed from everything around it. I also I I'm really curious if it paid off in any way. If it taught us anything, if it if it showed anything useful, or if you could chop it out of the movie and everything would be fine.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:03

I personally gained nothing from it at all. The stakes weren't any higher aside from making the cops a little bit more distracted and care a little bit less about what was happening at the Dance Academy. But quite frankly, with all the supernatural uh prowess of these witches, I don't think the cops would have ever posed a serious issue. So uh it just seemed a little unnecessary.

SPEAKER_07 1:24:25

Yeah, the witches were not bothered by those cops.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:28

I mean, they're literally just playing with their junk.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:30

They they did give them nice little testicular uh tests, though. A good physical. Yeah, turn and cough.

SPEAKER_07 1:24:38

Anthony, did you get any extra value from the added like context that they brought to the new one?

SPEAKER_06 1:24:43

Um, well, I think kind of brought in themes that weren't in the original. Like, for instance, abuse of power runs throughout this whole remake. And I think those those scenes, when like when you're talking about the cough, that's giving those examples or going back to that. Um I was just thinking to myself, would I feel the same way that it would be too much information if they actually split it into two films?

SPEAKER_04 1:25:13

Where do you think that split would happen?

SPEAKER_06 1:25:15

We would need more material. Yeah. Um, honestly, I'm not too sure. Give me your pitch, man. Give me your pitch. Because it seems like right now everyone's saying that it's just it's too much to the point where it's excessive. However, if you split it into two films, like let's just say Harry Potter did for the last film, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 1:25:40

Oh yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_06 1:25:41

Would it be still too much excessive information?

SPEAKER_01 1:25:45

I actually, while watching it, especially the way it was split up, you know, into acts, um, I think they could have made it, you know, another another miniseries, another little limited, limited run. Um, and honestly, they could have turned the whole thing into a full TV series with about the three mothers if they wanted to. Because it seems like they were ready to go deep enough into lore um that they would have been able to go through the original trilogy and put together, you know, a a two or three season arc if they wanted to.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:14

That I would be okay with.

SPEAKER_06 1:26:16

Yeah, I'll watch that. If I remember correctly, the original cut uh for the 18 version was actually three hours and thirty minutes.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:25

Oh my god. What could they possibly have to say in three hours and thirty minutes?

SPEAKER_06 1:26:30

No, they cut out an hour of it.

SPEAKER_07 1:26:31

In 2020, there's like no excuse for that.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:34

Maybe we should rewatch this uh 2018 version, um, and then just only watch one act at a time. You know? So you watch one act one night, the next night you pick up another act, and then like see if see how you feel about it, see if it was effectively its own little miniseries. I think that could be interesting.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:51

Because some of but by the time you get to the epilogue, I'm like, this is exhausting.

SPEAKER_07 1:26:54

Oh yeah, fuck the epilogue. I could have done without that entirely.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:57

The 77 version felt pretty succinct enough because it it had some length to it. You know, it's an hour 45. It didn't feel too short, but it didn't feel too long. When you made it through, you look at your watch and you're just like, oh, okay, that wasn't as long as I figured it was going to be. And we and we made it through and got to see an entire story unfold.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:14

For sure. I was also just left wanting more in a good way. Like I I felt every every bit of that didn't put me in this position where I'm like, okay, when is the next thing gonna happen? It was more like I was in that atmosphere. I was also curious, I was also creeped out. Whereas in the 2018 version, it was like, oh, okay, well, unless they're dancing, I don't really like I just want to get back to the dancing parts because some weird shit tends to happen when people are dancing. Um, I will say that I loved when Blanc was introducing Susie in that practice session, and you had that person in the background just playing with the records. That was as close as it ever got. got in this movie to achieving the same feeling within me with the original soundtrack and then the score.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:06

It really seems like they they tried to achieve in dance in 2018 what they did with music in 77 because in 77 there wasn't that much dancing. There was a ton of of music though. And in 2018 um the music like really wasn't there, the soundtrack wasn't there or to that level, but the the dancing I think was to that level. That's a really good point. And I I think it's also interesting if you look at what uh Dario Argento said about the 2018. So he said it betrayed the spirit of the original film. There's no fear there's no music the film has not satisfied me so much.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:42

Really?

SPEAKER_01 1:28:43

I could see that. But he also I mean he did sing the praises of the filmmaker because he said it was refined. So I think that's he does see like the value in the choices that were made but he he he you know he's missing that feeling that that you get from that from that 77 where it's just like this mystical musical journey.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:01

Interesting. So he's basically saying hey you're good at what you do but I don't like what you did. I don't like you but I respect you.

SPEAKER_06 1:29:09

I think his comments did have a little bit of influence the fact that he was a little sore no one asked his opinion during the making.

SPEAKER_07 1:29:18

Oh I'm mad about that too now.

SPEAKER_06 1:29:20

Because afterwards he was like yeah no one called me and asked my opinion about anything even though I made the original but that's cool.

SPEAKER_07 1:29:30

That's upsetting. I mean for me when it comes to the ultimate difference in the two stories there's a quote that Tilda Swinton said when she's teaching uh Susie how to jump and dance and just like really giving her the philosophy of it all and she says today we must break the nose of every beautiful thing and it feels like they took the beautiful thing being the original movie took a sledgehammer to its nose and then just kind of handed it to us on a platter and said here look at this and I I I'm really happy with that.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:00

So I I do have one major observation but before we get there I have an honest question for you guys. Well first does anybody here have experience with dance?

SPEAKER_07 1:30:10

I went to an art school in Pittsburgh that was adjacent to a performing arts school and all of the college parties I went to were of that group of kids so I am pretty good friends with a lot of different dancers.

unknown 1:30:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:25

Alright Mac I I do not I mean I work with someone who's a dancer not this type of dance though but they definitely have their own um style of personality I guess you could say dancers it's it's kind of like how you ever know painters like you see how their brains work a little bit differently. Dancers' brains work a little bit different not in a bad way just like you you you meet them you're like oh you're a dancer I see. Because like their brains are always thinking about things in a little bit different way. Yeah they're also kind of culty.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:56

Didn't want to go there but yeah I realized that I I'd never considered before the logistics of peeing with a unit on she goes to use the bathroom in the 2018 version she like pulls up her shirt pulls on her pants I thought she still just had underwear on like wait what why is she sitting down with that? What do you mean she's just moving it out of the way? That's not how this is done. She did not realize it was one whole piece.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:20

And she wait she was not only peeing with a unit on she was also peeing into a cup.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:23

Oh shit yeah I forgot about that too yeah I was I was distracted by the cup because I was like why is she not taking that off?

SPEAKER_07 1:31:30

There were some complex logistics there. I'll give you that.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:34

Yeah yeah but I think the the more complex thing here was how peculiar the vibes were between Blanc and Susie and how erotic things got very quickly. Everything was everything in this movie just felt very sensual. And not even the point where they are like communicating telepathically but that first night when Susie you know is is hanging out with Blanc and she's like I imagine that's what it's like to fuck and she's like to fuck a man she says jealously like it just all seemed very intense.

SPEAKER_07 1:32:08

Also let's not overlook the scene where her and Sarah share a bed together and Susie's like I've only ever shared a bed with my with my sisters and she's like we're sisters now and then like the next scene you see them together Sarah gives her like a playful kiss on the cheek.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:20

Mm-hmm. Yeah I saw them spooning there's lots of lesbian tension in this movie yes yes I did I did appreciate that I I was a little creeped out though like the the moment where they're doing that private jump session that just felt really erotic. Oh yeah and I felt like I shouldn't have been there like watching and experiencing that. Wait that's the moment not when she was writhing on the floor and like obviously orgasming while she was dead I mean like yeah also that but the like it was just something about them just being there alone jumping the sounds of the jumping sounds like she was like enjoying it a little bit too much.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:01

It was just intense the command to go higher over and over and over.

SPEAKER_07 1:33:06

Honestly I think they were just drawn to each other because they had the same wig that they couldn't help it.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:11

Like Tilde Swent bless her heart for being three different characters but Dakota Johnson's hair upset me in a very specific way.

SPEAKER_07 1:33:19

It was rough it was very Mennonite so I'll give it that but it was not it was distracting at times and did nothing for her forehead.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:27

It was like the wrong shade of red it was just off enough to not actually suit her.

SPEAKER_07 1:33:34

I did like it when it was braided and like some of it was out and she was like killing Olga. I thought that the wig was successful in that scene and that scene alone. But also maybe it was red because as she gains power red becomes more of a color. So she was really the hardbringer of it all.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:50

Mm-hmm I like that thought and I'm gonna latch on to that as my headcanon so that I can you know tolerate this movie a little bit more but what I do what I do think that does is lend itself to this idea that I really appreciated and that was when you are looking pretty early on in the movie there's like this like I don't know if it's just embroidery but it's a sign in a house and it says a mother is someone who can take the place of all others but no one can take her place. And by the time you get to the end of the movie you see just how Susie has been this whole time how she has been one of everyone else and you know you see everybody else who's who's attempted to take her place in power and you realize oh no nobody can be her. She is the mother.

SPEAKER_07 1:34:40

Wait Chris I'm actually gagging right now I did not make that connection but that's amazing.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:45

That was like the one thread that I really enjoyed about like the connection to the ending.

SPEAKER_07 1:34:50

Oh I forgot about that part.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:52

Ooh I like it even more I love how they connected it to 77's breathing noise though by having it you know be her dying mother giving her that that memory of that slow sick breathing.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:05

Her mom's dialogue for sure made me feel like get like antichrist vibes.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:09

Oh yeah yeah I mean she realized that she had unleashed death upon the earth which is great because I'm pretty sure the actress ended up playing death in the final scene.

SPEAKER_06 1:35:19

Death wow that's another layer all right alright okay I'm like getting a little bit more sweet on this movie just in that one small way the whole thing is about uh woman and her sexuality so yes obviously her relationship with everyone's gonna have an undertone to it let's let's let's exp uh unpack that a little bit because I didn't get woman in her sexuality I got woman in her power and like a maternal instinct but oh no I'm talking about Dakota her character Chris she's basically like twisting her nipples at the end killing everybody.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:55

Exactly I mean look I was just so distracted by how much I didn't like the ending that I just ignored that.

SPEAKER_07 1:36:02

Oh it was all very sexually charged from my perspective and I'm gay.

SPEAKER_04 1:36:05

Alright folks now there's so much more that we can talk about here with the brutality of this movie with the tension of both movies uh with how polarizing the 2018 version is but in all reality this is a conversation that's gonna have to expand just the we few here at this table and include all of our listeners. So to you listening to this episode we want to know what your thoughts are on Susperia, your questions, your concerns. Do you like me feel that the ending was underwhelming? Or are you on the hype train like everybody else here, huh? Let us know. There are a number of ways that you can reach out to us first at our website www.hackerslash.com and on our social media accounts on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. Or you can also reach us at our hackerslash hotline. You can call us text us leave us a voicemail or an audio message at number 757 606 0128 also found down in the show notes.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:59

And if you too are attending a private dance school for witches you can send us an email to feedbackhackerslash dot com.

SPEAKER_07 1:37:05

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SPEAKER_04 1:37:14

Anthony thank you so much for joining us this week and now you know you're telling me in the month leading up to this that you're super passionate about both of these movies in very different ways but thank you so much for coming where can our listeners uh find more about you uh you can find me on Instagram uh aPresley89 and Twitter AnthonyPresley make sure you check out his uh Instagram folks his artwork is just absolutely mind blowing uh but check that stuff out check out Sisperiod join us on our platform so we can continue this conversation and we'll see you next week