SPEAKER_02 0:04

Super chill, Sesame Street vibes.

SPEAKER_05 0:11

Greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hack or Slash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. Good to see ya. If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack, a total joke, a waste of time, or a slash.

SPEAKER_01 0:26

Total killer, unintended.

SPEAKER_05 0:28

We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, we're rating these movies with the perspective we've gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris, and I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast. This week I'm joined by the Superfly Space Guy Mac. Hola, muchachos, the Gore Lover Alexis, hey everyone, and the Cowardly Creeper Ryan. Hiya. We've got another old vs. new episode for you this week, folks, this time breaking down an 80s serial killer slasher and comparing it to its remake. Before we get started though, we do have some follow-up about another old vs. new comparison we did recently.

SPEAKER_02 1:03

Yeah, so we threw a poll up on Twitter about The Hills Have Eyes to see if our listeners preferred the 1977 version or the 2006 version, and 76% of you aligned with the rest of us and liked 2006 better. And 24% of our listeners preferred the original, which it I think is insane. Something's wrong with the rest of you.

SPEAKER_05 1:25

To be clear, I also like the original.

SPEAKER_02 1:27

I also think something's wrong with you. So we have a bit of an Instagram comment from Troy about these movies, and he says, at the time, Wes Craven had a knack for the shocking. Last House on the Left had chest carving and gut fondling before we were even ready for it, which is totally true. And he said, like the original Texas Chainsaw, there's a new depth of depravity angle that nobody had done to death yet. So it was all visceral and exploitative, which I totally agree. I think these are totally exploit films. And then one of our patrons, Daniel, said, if I had to pick one over the other, I would pick the remake. It's that kind of movie where if I'm in the mood for an all-out heavy and gruesome film, that's the one I watch. Plus, it holds a special memory. I watched it when I was six years old, which is insane. I snuck the DVD out of my brother's room and threw it in without my mom knowing. I had no idea what I was in for, which shout out to Daniel.

SPEAKER_05 2:14

That's a bold move, Daniel. You are brave. I don't know if I would have made it to seven, honestly.

SPEAKER_03 2:18

That sounds like an Alexis move, honestly. It would have been had I been six years old at that time. I was like double. I feel so old at that comment.

SPEAKER_02 2:27

Wow, I didn't even think about it that way, but geez, yeah, you're right. But also your grandma would have been like, oh no, you can just have this one. You can watch this. She's like, make sure you watch it chapter two. There you go.

SPEAKER_05 2:37

All right. Well, thank you so much, Ryan. Now, this week we have yet another killer with mommy issues, and we're seeing two very different takes on it. These movies explore the psyche of a man named Frank as he preys upon young, beautiful women and takes out on them the rage he's built from his mother. While the original film has ranked for some folks among the best or scariest slasher films of all time, it was especially meaningful for the producer of the remake who paid homage to his love of the original in his own film, High Tension. Something else we've covered here on this podcast. Now, both movies also dig deep to offer different perspectives on art. How do you create or preserve beauty and how can you bring things to life with your work? This week we're talking about both versions of Maniac. Now, who has seen either of these before?

SPEAKER_03 3:23

I had heard of the remake, but um I definitely like heard of it, but I didn't know. And I think there's something new that just came out on Netflix also called Maniac. So I was like, maybe that's what I thought it was. That's true. So, but no, to answer your question.

SPEAKER_02 3:40

I obviously haven't seen either of these movies. I for some reason had them connected to like the shining or like psycho or something in my head, where I thought these were I thought Maniac was just like a super classic slasher, um, which I think it's pretty popular, but it for some reason I thought I knew what this movie was, and uh I was wrong.

SPEAKER_01 4:02

I have heard of the word maniac, and I have watched that Netflix series called Maniac, but I was not familiar with these movies.

SPEAKER_02 4:10

But have you been called a maniac?

SPEAKER_01 4:12

Only on the dance floor.

SPEAKER_05 4:14

Fascinating. The original version of this movie was actually recommended to me on Twitter by our listener Amber, uh, who always shouts us out, and she made this recommendation for the 80s slasher challenge to bring everybody up to speed. This was gonna be a list of 80s slasher movies that people threw out expecting me to dislike them or hate them at some point. I hadn't seen or heard of this movie before that, and when I saw it, I didn't even realize it had a remake. I live tweeted my viewing of the original back in March, and all I expected from it was this, stated as such. Tom Savini is in this, so all I'm really expecting is solid makeup and effects at the very least. For the remake, upon learning that it had one, I expected it to be different in a few key ways. So more blood, extended kills, deeper dive into this killer's like psychology. Knowing Elijah Wood was cast also gave me this hope that we'd have a better angle on the killer and some of the relationships the killer has in the original movie. Um now, did I expect it to be definitively better in every way? No. And honestly, I'm gonna be real, I wasn't sure how serious I could take it knowing Elijah Wood is in it, because I feel like I'd look at him and kind of laugh.

SPEAKER_03 5:27

I don't know, it's just me. Is it a Lord of the Rings thing?

SPEAKER_05 5:30

It's not even just that, because like I don't see him and think Frodo. I see him in think scrawny, creepy weirdo, yeah, in the corner. It's his faculty character, honestly, is what it is.

SPEAKER_02 5:40

See, I only think Frodo Baggins, and I think especially when he was younger, it's just like it's just the same. Like I I could not separate those things.

SPEAKER_01 5:51

Can I tell you upon seeing just the like the cover art for the VHS or whatever he used for the like the poster art, I was not expecting much. I was expecting like blood and someone killing. That's really my only thought going into the original version, going into the remake. I was expecting to see Frodo Baggins killing people.

SPEAKER_03 6:13

Slay some something, chasing rings.

SPEAKER_01 6:16

Or if you missed a Frodo.

SPEAKER_03 6:18

I saw the uh I guess artwork for the cover of this movie. So looking at like the movie poster, I was like, oh, okay, it's a cool slasher made in the 80s, it's gonna be fun, it's gonna be cool. It's this crazy maniac just running around the streets killing people. I was like, oh, this is really gonna be interesting. Wasn't sure what the remake was gonna be about, but Chris said I was gonna like it. There was a lot of blood and guts. Uh, we'll get to how I felt about that, but yeah. So I was like, no, I don't. It's just not that's another 80s slasher to me. And the other one was just an extension of that. Just like, I wonder if they made it better or worse.

SPEAKER_02 6:53

It's pretty much the expectation when it's remade. Yeah. So I watched this on Tubi. I said, I wonder if this will continue the saga of if it's on Tubi for free, it sucks. I made the mistake, the thing that I hate to do, which is I read the description on Tubi, and I just feel like I need to read it to you guys so you can understand how terrible the description is. It says, A disturbed man who prowls the seedy streets of New York City to slaughter innocent young women begins a relationship with a beautiful photographer, which is like just for what it's worth, their first date is 50 minutes into the movie. So um, my expectations were very confused by this description. So I stand by my uh classic line of don't read descriptions, don't watch trailers. For the new one, I I expected to feel exactly how I felt about Frodo Baggins, and that is it's impossible to separate the two.

SPEAKER_05 7:42

So did it turn out that way then? How how'd you feel while you were watching both of them?

SPEAKER_03 7:46

Like he was gonna go get a ring and throw it into a fire, and uh, you know. I thought he was gonna turn into Gollum in the in in the second one. Oh yeah. He was pretty close once I saw those mirror shots.

SPEAKER_01 7:59

These movies were hard to watch. I'm just gonna throw that out there. I yeah, I was watching them on my phone, I was multitasking, which is not preferable when watching a movie that you need to review, but it was required at the time. And so that makes things a little bit more difficult anyway. But so the violence, of course, is something you expect. I love like the crazy killers that you watch on like, you know, criminal minds or mindhunter and that kind of stuff. I'm so into it. My favorite course in college was abnormal psychology. It is so interesting to me. But usually we get it from a very different perspective, and we don't get so close and so sweaty when we learn about these these killers. True. And that's that it was it was very it was very close. We were very in the nostril of of these killers. So that it was it was kind of a lot. The perspective, I think, made it a little bit challenging for me in in both films in different ways, but it it was gruesome, I would say. That's the only way I can describe the experience of each film was it was gruesome.

SPEAKER_02 9:03

Yeah, I mean, I don't think we can describe it any other way. There's a lot of intensity in them, and especially I don't know, it's hard, you know. For these podcasts, we sometimes end up like watching movies back to back, like old versus new and stuff like that. And consuming both of these movies at the same time is quite a lot. Agree. Yeah, it it's like, you know, I think terrifier is what we usually compare things to, but terrifier has like a a totally different feeling from this movie. These are like dark, whereas terrifier was like funny gore, kind of.

SPEAKER_03 9:37

I don't know. Even like Saw too. I mean, I'll talk about it later, I guess. It kind of had a similar effect to me. I think it's mostly has to go with the characters and the characterization of um Frank, which gives you this vibe where you're like, oh, this might be real. Is this real? Oh, I'm watching a movie, shit, and I'm not watching a VHS. Someone just popped in my VCR. Like a family video? You're not watching the Poughkeepsie 2s. Yes, that's kind of what I was getting from this.

SPEAKER_01 10:05

I think that word from that description is so right, CD. That's how this felt.

SPEAKER_02 10:10

Yeah, especially the original. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 10:13

When I first watched the original, I didn't know what to expect. I didn't know what I was in for. I I was really engaged though and really weirded out in some areas. But I was definitely buckled up and enjoying the ride. I I have a fascination, a weird fascination, I know, with serial killers. So this felt to me like the perfect blend of take a slasher and and mesh them with a realistic or mesh them with features of a realistic serial killer for realistic motives without the immortality we see of traditional slasher icons. It still manages to stay firmly in horror for me without feeling too much like a true crime movie. Because I feel like you you can cross a line where it just becomes a detective movie. And because we focus so much on the antagonist, we don't get the detective perspective.

SPEAKER_02 11:00

Yeah, I was thinking about it because um we've watched some movies that it's like when you know who the killer is, it kind of just becomes this like it. So I watch a lot of HLN at night, which is just, you know, like crime stories and like reenactments. And at some point here, I was watching this and I was like, I kind of feel like I'm watching a reenactment, but then it it separates from that. Because we've definitely seen movies that that do exactly what you just said, just go to true crime. And this, I think, the the maniac element of it is what keeps it terrifying.

SPEAKER_05 11:32

Yeah. What I loved in the experience of watching the two, I had I can't do the I don't know how you guys can do the put one movie on and then put the movie other movie on immediately after. I watch one movie on a Wednesday and watch the other one on a Saturday because I need some time and space. To be fair, we we all regret it.

SPEAKER_03 11:47

Oh, yeah. This, I mean, some I would enjoy watching them back to back, especially if it's like a continuation or like we had to review the first one and then do the second one. But this one I would never recommend to watch uh in one night.

SPEAKER_05 12:00

Yeah, that's just a lot for one sitting. So thank you for your uh for your efforts. The remake, especially with giving that time and space, it felt like a totally different experience. It was weird for sure, but the way it's shot almost gives you room to understand Frank a little more and see things from his point of view versus being consistently outside the monster and watching him operate with no understanding of his motives. That's not to say that Frank is at all justified, don't get me wrong, but I felt way more engaged watching the remake because it just gets more into his point of view and his psychology. So Elijah Wood even said in an interview, are we trying to authentically capture what happens in the mind of a serial killer? Perhaps not. I think that would be far too dangerous. But that is kind of what they do. They they bring you to the edge of being able to not feel too much compassion for him, but understand that he's not the same Frank that we got in the original. But overall, I would say I was I was struck by the audio in both movies. The scores were really exceptional. The sound effects for the kill methods were they were intense, they were grotesque, they gave me chills. There were sounds I didn't care to hear, but were extremely effective.

SPEAKER_02 13:10

There was a couple moments that I liked, and it I think it's it it only worked because it was like the city feeling. Like, I wouldn't say it was great score in the first one, but I could I could see there's a couple things that I enjoyed.

SPEAKER_05 13:24

There were some sense. I'm surprised you didn't like that, Alexis.

SPEAKER_03 13:27

I wasn't watching, I think there were like a few, but maybe those were like the more intense moments. I was focusing on that shot for shot that I probably didn't pay attention in the beginning. But maybe those were what put me to sleep in the, you know, the other parts.

SPEAKER_02 13:39

Uh alternatively, did you enjoy in the original the 10 minutes of a girl moaning in a bathroom for no reason while she was trying to be silent?

SPEAKER_03 13:47

That was the one of the parts that I was like, wow, so intense. And I'm just like, okay, he's either dumb and or he's just standing outside and just gonna wait. But I I don't know. I was just like, yeah, she needed to STF you.

SPEAKER_02 14:02

Yeah, I just it it bothered me a lot the way the audio and the video didn't match a lot of times in the first, uh, the original, and it it just threw me off so much I hated it. And I I know I've already kind of complained to Chris about this because I physically couldn't handle how much I hated it. Um, and I was so glad to see that gone in the second one.

SPEAKER_01 14:23

There the audio was pretty cool though. I mean, like you mentioned, the synths were kind of fun, so I gotta appreciate that. The sound effects for the gore, like you mentioned, were very intense, even listening on AirPods. Like that's how I knew it was wild, was when you know the audio sounds fine, they're talking, whatever happens, and then there's like a kill happening, and it's like clear as day. That was yeah, that was hardcore. There was a scene in the original movie that just like the mood shifted suddenly from completely grotesque to like happy go lucky, and like the music matched that and that bottom.

SPEAKER_03 14:58

And he was on a freaking date.

SPEAKER_01 14:59

Yeah, that was awkward. So there were there's a couple other scenes where it does it like back and forth, and the audio really matches the mood, and it's it's uncomfortable, I think. And maybe that's on purpose, but because it just shifts so rapidly from from deadly to just like carefree, like nothing's happening. But the the audio in the remake was really tough for me, and this is probably part of that perspective thing that I mentioned is is an issue, but having Frank's audio dubbed over later, I can't I can't unhear it, and the entire time I'm watching the movie I hear it, and it's really hard for me to to get past that.

SPEAKER_02 15:38

In the remake?

SPEAKER_01 15:39

Yes. So because the remake kind of moves you know from the third person view into Frank's point of view, his audio is added later. It's dubbed, so it's added on top.

SPEAKER_03 15:50

Yeah, but I mean, like, how do you know when you don't see his lips moving? Because it's from his perspective.

SPEAKER_01 15:56

But I can I can tell. Well, I couldn't. I can I can hear it, I can hear the dubbing, and I'm not saying it was done poorly.

SPEAKER_03 16:03

Bless that good hearing he guys said dub dub dub dub.

SPEAKER_01 16:07

I'm not saying it was done poorly or anything. I'm just saying like I could it I was constantly process processing it, and I kind of felt like I was watching like a YouTube ASMR video.

SPEAKER_02 16:17

Ugh, it's so funny because that's how the stress you feel about that is the stress I felt in the in the original.

SPEAKER_01 16:23

Interesting. Yeah. That both movies had a lot of heavy breathing. It was very pornographic, the audio in both films.

SPEAKER_02 16:30

Yeah, definitely. So another thing, speaking of the point of view, that was something that surprised me that I totally did not expect in this remake. And I don't know that I've ever seen another movie that did that. And I don't know if I want to.

SPEAKER_03 16:45

Yeah, at least not the whole entire time. The whole thing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:48

And like when you like some of the shots that that come from that are like looking into a mirror but not looking into a mirror. And I don't know, there were some things um that definitely definitely caught me off guard in the remake. I don't know, these movies are have a lot of similarities and differences. It's almost like 50-50.

SPEAKER_03 17:06

I guess in general, I was just surprised about how much gore was in this and how intense it was too. I know we talked about that before, but I was just not in that mind frame watching this, and I was like, holy hell, I'm surprised.

SPEAKER_05 17:18

Girl.

SPEAKER_03 17:18

Very surprised. And I'm surprised at my reaction.

SPEAKER_05 17:21

Girl, if I ever tell you that you're gonna like something, know that it's gonna be the goriest shit you've ever seen.

SPEAKER_03 17:26

Yikes, and it was. Um, and I'm surprised at like how I felt about it. Um, I'll wait till after the spoiler break, but yeah, I'm just surprised in general, like about it. I don't think surprised is the right word for me.

SPEAKER_01 17:37

I think shocked is perhaps the right word. That's that's how I felt going into this movie. Like right off the bat, I felt shocked at the violence that we witness because we're talking about a serial killer, and we'll get into who the victims are in it. But I think it was shocking for me because usually when we're dealing with serial killers, we have that like separation from them, and we're seeing it in more of like a documentary feeling almost. And in these films we're not, we're like right up close in the action next to them with them experiencing it. And it's you know, it was kind of kind of a lot, but it was definitely unexpected. I was expecting Slasher, I was expecting in the shadows, and we kind of see them the stabbing motion happens, and the person falls down, and then there's some fake blood or something like that. And we don't get that in this one. When we get to our favorite scenes later, there was one that I was a hundred percent not expecting, and was very satisfied, was very surprised by and shocked by and loved in in the original film.

SPEAKER_02 18:38

Oh, can't wait to find out what that is.

SPEAKER_01 18:40

I know, but it's it's spoiler-ridden, so I don't want to talk about it.

SPEAKER_05 18:43

That's fair. The overall quality of the original, uh, that was the huge surprise to me because by the nature of again, what that slasher challenge was for me, I was expecting awful movies and good ol' Amber snuck in a quality one. Um, there were small spots where I was disappointed by a weird thing or two, and we'll get to that in the gore score of the second movie. Ultimately, though, it was a clean cohesive watch in my eyes. What surprised me even more was the overall quality of the remake. Now, the team behind this is the same team who did the Hills Have Eyes remake, um, High Tension. So they obviously have a lot of great movies under their belts, but they're movies that I just don't drive with. The only one they've done that I've objectively loved was Crawl. And that was no complaints, right? And I know I've seen the movie they did called P2, but I don't remember enough of it to recall any feelings about it. So knowing that, I'm really surprised how few complaints I generally have about the remake. I will say that some of the stuff that you were talking about earlier, like just with it being shocking in that perspective we get from serial killers, I think it does an interesting thing to how frightening these movies are. I don't think the movie themselves are particularly scary, but I think what it does wonderfully is highlight what so many women are naturally inclined to be aware of with their own intuition. So both movies have these scenes where you fully appreciate the situational awareness that two to three women in particular have, where nothing is immediately obvious to them, but their intuition is telling them to be on high alert. And I was telling Ryan this before, but it reminds me so much of this book called The Gift of Fear, which it just talks about your intuition and trusting your intuition and when it puts you in dangerous situations. I'll put a link down in the show notes if you want to check it out. But did anyone else find this frightening?

SPEAKER_03 20:26

I thought this was pretty terrifying. I think because there's, you know, people out there who have these sort of illnesses and sort of issues that maybe are not so I mean, our our neighbors. Um I mean, not mine personally, but but maybe. Yeah, you don't know. But I did. I think um what was terrifying, and I think to me the most was Frank in the original one. He just had this like nasty sweatiness that was just terrifying to me, and it just added to his character. Elijah would not that scary. Um, but Frank in OG original was just like it was good. It was good, it was terrifying for me.

SPEAKER_02 21:04

Yeah, I I kind of battle with this. So, like Chris was talking about with like the intuition. Um, it is definitely a part of this movie, a big part of this movie is how women react to these situations and different types of women and their different reactions. My beef is like sometimes in movies, everyone acts like an absolute idiot when their intuition goes off and they, you know, hide in a place where they can't escape. And I think stuff like that is silly and that annoys me. But you know, just a personal distaste. We'll unpack that further later. As far as being afraid, like I think Alexis, you're totally right. Like, it's not that this movie is scary. I didn't feel scared when I was watching this movie. It's like this concept of uh being out of touch of reality. Like, like I might work with someone who could just lose track of what's real and what's not, and that's what these. Movies do really well. Like it's you see the way they're experiencing things and then the way they really are. And it's so scary because I think everyone in the world has at some point been like, Am I crazy? And fortunately, if you start thinking, Am I crazy? You're probably not. But what if you are? And and and you don't realize because you your reality is reality. That's what's scary.

SPEAKER_01 22:26

Is reality reality though? Sometimes I think about that. Like sometimes I'm like, what if this is that part in the dream where you realize it's a dream and you try to wake yourself up? And then it's like, but I can't wake myself up.

SPEAKER_03 22:37

That's scary too. That's creepy when you I've never had that. Like, I'm in a dream and I realize it was a dream.

SPEAKER_01 22:42

That's um Yeah, I've had it where I realize I'm in a dream. Like, I think I'm completely awake. I realize I'm in a dream, and then I'm like, I need to wake up, but I can't, I can't physically make myself wake up.

SPEAKER_05 22:51

Oh, they're like documentary on that. Yeah. I had a real bad dream about Ryan recently that was like that, and I woke up crying. It was so bad. Oh, she did not want to hear about it.

SPEAKER_02 23:02

I do, but I don't like to have people repeat bad dreams because I think they can leave your brain really quickly if you don't talk about it.

SPEAKER_05 23:07

Yeah, that sounds like a plot of a horror movie.

SPEAKER_01 23:10

If you speak of them, they become reality. I didn't find this scary. Perhaps the people are somewhat frightening in that people like this have existed and do exist to this day. Maybe that's like a scary notion, but I was not cowering in fear or anything like that. But I'm also not the intended target of these killers.

SPEAKER_03 23:30

So you're safe. That's true.

SPEAKER_01 23:32

Pretty much.

SPEAKER_03 23:32

White man, definitely safe. Obviously. Also perpetrator.

SPEAKER_01 23:37

Oh. That being said, the the killers are interesting to watch. And I think OG Frank does have this everyman kind of appearance. Like I feel like if you saw him today, you would think like that's just like an everyday dude that's acting super creepy. I need to stay away from him. But Elijah Wood, he's so cute. How could you look at him if he was acting normal and think, oh, he's scary? If he acted like his character in this film, yeah, you would be like, get away from that guy.

SPEAKER_05 24:02

First off, he looked hella creepy in every reflection we see him in, and his hands were grotesque.

SPEAKER_04 24:07

That's true.

SPEAKER_05 24:08

Elijah Wood and Frank from the OG, Joe Spinel, both of them are the exact type of person you want to get away from. But really, the the trick to all of this is it doesn't matter what someone looks like, you should stay away from them all. Because Ted Bundy was allegedly handsome.

SPEAKER_01 24:22

Yeah. I think a lot of people say that. And then we go back and like watch the videos of him, and then everyone today that I've seen goes, People thought he was handsome.

SPEAKER_05 24:30

Oh, I mean, like there are some photos of him where he's objectively good looking.

SPEAKER_02 24:34

Not that I'm into that. I was like, uh, what? I think it comes down to this thing where like when you look back, like as long as someone doesn't look like an ogre in this context, they're gonna be like, wow, it's so weird because he killed people, but he was handsome. And it's like, well, that's that's a subjective decision. He's not handsome to me.

SPEAKER_01 24:52

But it's on a scale.

SPEAKER_02 24:53

Yeah. Yeah. They're just trying to say he didn't look like he was gonna kill you all the time.

SPEAKER_01 24:57

But I think you could say that they do look like they're gonna kill you in these movies.

SPEAKER_02 25:01

Yeah, I'd say so.

SPEAKER_01 25:02

I had some trouble like separating the fact that we know they're the killer and the fact that other characters don't, because I'm like, look at this person, they're obviously gonna kill you.

SPEAKER_02 25:12

Can't you see his switchblade? Come on.

SPEAKER_01 25:14

Look at that sweat dripping off of everything. Come on.

SPEAKER_05 25:16

So, look, we know about these serial killers, right? We've seen serial killers who struggle with mental health, we've seen men prey on women so many times on this podcast, and we've even done seen it where they do it because of mommy issues. What I hadn't seen though was a blend of those horror icons with those real-world serial killers and how it forged its own identity with those mannequins. And I'll say that the remake is, I think, the best I've seen yet from the perspective of bringing in elements from the original, respecting it, adding its own flavor to not only set itself apart, but like just raise the bar of the film's reputation. And at least for me, I feel like it matched every punch the original made and hit back even harder without deviating too much from the original spirit, if that makes sense. And I I think when I stopped to think about this, I feel like this is how everybody else felt about The Hills Have Eyes. That's exactly how they felt.

SPEAKER_03 26:09

It's exactly how I felt. In my opinion, it was original, it was great. It was, it has all these elements that I appreciate and all these, you know, sort of themes, and it just rolls into one, and I really like that.

SPEAKER_02 26:23

I don't know. It's interesting because Chris, you're right. Like, we've seen men chasing women, yada yada, and and it does like, especially watching the original, you do get this feeling like, oh, this just kind of feels like they took all the serial killers I can think of from before the 2000s and kind of mush them together and you know, put it in a CD New York setting and stuff like that. But then at the same time, like I can't think of a movie where I've like seen someone going crazy in this way and seen what they're doing, and um, and then you have the remake and with the point of view and everything. I I I think there are some points here for originality for for both as a whole.

SPEAKER_01 27:03

I struggled with it a little bit because while watching it, of course, my mind is just like dissecting it and going like, oh, Psycho, oh, Ed Keane from Real Life, oh, all these other serial killers that we've seen before and that we've heard stories about and that existed, whether real or in in in fiction. But I I don't think that I had ever read about someone exactly like this or seen a depiction of a serial killer exactly like this. So there was like this battle I had. Like I felt like, yes, these are all ingredients we've seen. It sounds like some textbook stuff, but at the same time, this is this is new for me. This is shocking, if you will. But uh I I think I gotta give it some some points in both cases, because I don't think anyone had delivered an experience like each of these movies up to up to each point. Like I love that the fact that they they do things differently to give you the same feeling. Somehow, decades later, when we've seen everything, like everything that you could possibly think of has been put into film by that point, but somehow they're able to still transmit that original feeling to a crowd that has seen much crazier things than the original movie.

SPEAKER_05 28:08

For sure. And we've heard some mixed things about each movie as it comes to this point. Yeah, the audio left something to be desired for some of you, looking at the perspective of the serial killer. I'm questioning how into the gore Alexis was, because if it surprised her, now I'm suddenly concerned. But we all know that the real decisions about these movies tend to lie in how we feel about the ending. So, how did that turn out for all of you?

SPEAKER_01 28:32

The endings were wild rides in both films, and I was a hundred percent not expecting them to happen in the way that they did. There was there was some good action happening. There was a good point for for Frank where like I was concerned that nothing was going to end, that this was just gonna be like a you know, we have a character that continues doing what they're doing and has a room full of mannequins.

SPEAKER_03 28:57

Like, how much room do you have?

SPEAKER_01 28:58

Right, like he's gotta get a bigger apartment. That's the sequel. But no, I I feel like we got to somewhat of a resolution that I found satisfying because it was like so extreme, um, and was dealing with the mind of of Frank and not just like what was happening externally.

SPEAKER_03 29:15

I enjoyed it. I like you said, I thought it had a good ending that was definite. There's no questions asked, there's a little maybe a little bit. Uh, but I don't know. Like you the mind is a tricky thing, and I think watching the end of this, I it was tricky to me. I feel like they should have done one thing, like I would have changed one thing about it. Um, and I feel like everyone might probably agree with me, but um, I don't know. It's kind of like in it's in one and not the other, so yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:45

Uh I'm kind of torn. Like the ending of the remake I quite enjoyed, and there were quite a few elements that were changed. And uh man, the ending in the first one, the original, did not sit well with me. There were several components of it where I was just like, why and how and why? But we'll see. It's really hard to talk about these without without spoiling everything.

SPEAKER_05 30:12

I mean, that's fair because of how wild these endings are. I thought the ending to the original was exceptionally weird, but in a good way. And it's an interesting mix of you know, what is hallucination, what is reality, but I think the way the remake handled that line and its crossing of that line is way better. Either way, I was satisfied with both, and it didn't give me that bad taste in my mouth like Phantasm gave me. You know what I mean? Even though there's an element of the remake sending that bummed me out, I generally was pleased by both. So we'll see how all these feelings shake out for both of these movies. But before we make our way to our rating, Alexis, what do you have for the body count for each film?

SPEAKER_03 30:52

For OG version, I have seven, and very similarly, but not the same, so same, same, different in the 2000s version is eight.

SPEAKER_05 31:04

Indeed. And what I think is so misleading is that you hear that number, right? And you think, oh, that's not bad. That's that's kid stuff. But I think the seven and the eight that you get is pretty intense, and I can't wait to hear Alexis's thoughts on them.

SPEAKER_03 31:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 31:19

Now, of those seven, of those eight, Ryan, what's the animal report for these movies?

SPEAKER_02 31:24

For the amount of hair in these movies, thankfully, none of it came from animals. Our our animal report is good to go.

SPEAKER_05 31:31

So glad that bodes well. Now let's go ahead and get into our rating. Maniac from 1980. Was it a hacker or slash?

SPEAKER_03 31:38

All right. I give it all the credit for being, you know, a cold classic. I can definitely see why it might be. I clearly never heard of it. Um, but I don't know. I think it was just the plot in the beginning. It was just, I mean, I get it. You start me off with a kill, you you keep me engaged in maybe two or three kills. The rest of them, I know what he's gonna do at that point. Um, you get this ominous background talk that you're like, but is it him? Is it Ed? Like, is it supposed to be someone else in the scene? I don't know. I fell asleep during it, which is surprising that I would fall asleep during something so gory. It was low, the talking, the dialogue, I don't know, it just didn't keep me engaged fully that I I wanted and needed to be. And then all of a sudden you get some weird plot change in the middle. And and you and I looked, I was like, damn, if I sure have another hour of this shit. Um, and I just shouldn't say shit. I'm gonna give it props, but I was like, wow, it's only 30 minutes. Why are you gonna in it like literally drop in a whole entire like plot now into it just to make it the ending scene like maybe even make yourself feel a little bit more for this character? I don't think that's the way you do it. The fact that I went to sleep, I'm giving this a hack. Gonna give it props, but also a hack. It it I could see why people will think this is maybe I'm like, had I better been at a better mind frame? I don't even think that's it. I just think I did not enjoy this.

SPEAKER_02 33:04

Yeah. So I really enjoyed this movie, uh, which you know is not what I expect of an 80s slasher, if if that's what we want to consider this. I enjoyed a lot of the elements of this. It is pretty intense, uh, but I didn't have the like classic things that I usually hate in an 80s movie, where like I'm I just hate every character and can't relate to anyone. And um, I think the setting does a lot for it. I think the uh gore and types of store the like the people he goes after and stuff like that, they do a lot for it. But there's a lot of things that drove me insane in this movie. And so I am actually a gentle hack, but if you told me you love this movie, I wouldn't, I wouldn't judge you. And honestly, I could not be more on the fence about this movie. This is the most I've been on the fence in a long time. But I feel like I would be leading you astray as a brand if I told you it was a slash from me. But it's pretty good for an 80 slasher, and it's different. It's different from what I usually hate.

SPEAKER_01 34:09

I'm gonna give it as props because I'm gonna call a couple things out here. So the kills are very intense, especially for 1980, considering the other like slashers that we had before this. I mean, afterwards, obviously, like we see some insanity, but like before this, I don't feel like we saw stuff that was nearly as intense and up close and personal, and with a good variety too, like a massive variety in some of the kills. There's a lot of kills. It feels like there's constantly killing in this movie. There's like a lot of a lot of things going on, and to hear it's only seven is surprising because it feels like it's it's just like one after the other. It was kind of hard for me to keep up at a certain point with like who's dying. Like, I feel like everyone's dying, no one's gonna survive this. It's the walking dead. That being said, the audio was a bit tough, it was a bit wild in places for me uh to listen to listen to it. Um, but I have some major issues with the perspective, like I've mentioned. It was really tough for me to watch the film because I felt it was just felt really claustrophobic. I it it made the film less enjoyable. It did, no. Greasy is the right feeling, like pizza grease, like whole hand on the pizza grease on your t-shirt, deodorants on the outside of your t-shirt, and you're walking around in two days without taking a shower.

SPEAKER_05 35:23

It's New York in the 80s, right? I'd say it's a little bit more than two days.

SPEAKER_01 35:28

Yeah, like three days walking around like that.

SPEAKER_02 35:30

I didn't even see a bathroom in that apartment.

SPEAKER_01 35:32

Yeah, yeah, like just total.

SPEAKER_02 35:34

Oh no, he had hot plate. That was an efficiency. He lived in the back of somebody's crib.

SPEAKER_01 35:38

That's when you go to the gym to take a shower.

SPEAKER_02 35:40

Yeah, he he was not hit in the gym.

SPEAKER_01 35:42

Yeah, that's very true. But I think the acting was was pretty phenomenal uh in this film. I gotta give him some some major credit because you really feel that killer conveyed through that screen into your brain. But it was too much for me, and I just I did not enjoy the movie. Like Ryan says, if you enjoy this, I'm not gonna tear that down. I'm not gonna say you shouldn't, and I'm not gonna say you shouldn't watch this. I'm just gonna say it wasn't right for me, and I felt icky. So it's a hack for me.

SPEAKER_05 36:10

Interesting. All right, so three hacks so far. Well, spoiler alert, folks, my judgment on this movie has been published uh since March. My tweet at the end of watching this movie was this Okay, the ending is admittedly hella weird. Dot dot dot. But I like it. Yes, that's in all caps. Maniac 1980 gets a slash from me. Knew it was coming. And look, here's the thing, right? There's so many reasons I go into this. One, it was a pleasant surprise. Two, some of the deaths in here are long, uncomfortably long. And Mac, you're right, this movie is tough to watch. It's difficult to watch, but I feel like it's difficult to watch with the intention of being so. They conducted such thorough research to get certain details just right for Frank's character, like we're even researching the son of Sam, who was a killer in New York. One of the even better things is that despite all of the harrowing violence we get in this, despite all the gore, despite how difficult it is to stomach, there's a discussion here about photography and photographing someone and preserving them in a moment, and that cut very deeply with me. And it was so interesting to see in this movie how that one detail gives so much about a character and their perspective. So I think the character himself was built very well, even though he was aesthetically one of the most unpleasing people to look at. I will say for the remake, this is the first one that I think is just pound for pound better than the original, even with me liking the original. I feel like the only other movie I felt similarly about was the Texas Chainsaw Massacre, but I didn't like the original. What they did to take an already well-established character and dive further into his mind and change enough of the story to have a similar outcome, but not the same outcome, and take you on an almost entirely different journey. I absolutely loved it. So the remake even gets a slash from me. But 2012, Maniac, hacker slash for the three of you.

SPEAKER_02 38:11

So for me, when I look at a remake, um it this is gonna sound silly, but it truly is a matter of are they gonna make the things that I didn't like better or are they gonna change it and make everything worse? And in this instance, I really feel like the things that I was just irritated by in the original are really improved in the in the remake. And the point of view in this movie is intense. It's it's overwhelming. Uh, it's maybe too much. Um, it's maybe a change I wish they didn't make. And also it's Frodo Baggins. And like, I've never been afraid of that man in my life. He's four feet tall. Even if he's not, in my head, he's four feet tall and he's chasing a ring. And so it's it's it again a hard balance, but actually this one's a slash for me. It's another soft slash. Like, I'm not gonna tell you this is one of the best movies I've ever seen, but like I enjoyed it. It's intense again, though. Like, overall, these are all very intense, and you have to know what you're getting into when you go into watching both of these movies.

SPEAKER_03 39:14

I don't know if I necessarily go, like, you know, compare it. I kind of think of it as like its own entity. But um, I think it did the same stuff. I mean, like the stuff I didn't really enjoy, they made better or just kind of changed it in a way that was unique. So I didn't feel like I was watching the same movie because God forbid, if I did that, I'd be like, holy crap. Yeah. Um, I thought the gore was amped up, and I thought the gore was crazy in the first one. So this one definitely. Um, and I think I have a little bit more appreciation for the 80s version just because I feel like that was harder to do. Um, but there were some really good kills in this one. Really good kills. They didn't, I feel like it they didn't linger too much. Um, so I felt less intensity, which made me feel a little bit better about watching it. Um, but I loved, and I don't, I don't know, I don't think it was necessarily the um first person perspective that I was watching it, but I just loved how like visually this looked, especially the mannequins, seeing all that. Like I was just this photo, the girl, I was Anna, just taking photos in my head. But I mean, I thought it was enjoyable. Granted, I wish I would have probably watched this not in the same night. I feel like I would have enjoyed it more and picked up on the little things that it paid tribute to in the um original one. But I'm gonna have to get this slash.

SPEAKER_01 40:29

Man, that gore was very intense in the in the newer version of this film. Very intense. And I felt like there were some shots in here that were super Tom Savini. There was some gore in here that I was like, dude, you just you just pulled up the Tom Savini playbook, and those, and that that gore looks like almost like from a zombie movie, like so intense. So major props to the just like astounding gore that they were able to throw into the film. Um, they changed it enough to make it a different film from the original, which was fantastic, but they were still able to give you that same feeling that you got from the original. So two completely different times, two completely different versions of Frank, like very different versions of Frank, which I gotta appreciate, uh, but still that same feeling while watching it, while riding along. The riding along, however, was the part I had trouble with, and that's what makes it a hack for me. I've had some trouble with some first person stuff. It's literally dizzying for me to watch, and so it was it was really hard to actually watch the entire thing the whole way through. There's another film that I was so excited to watch that uses a similar point of view called Hardcore Henry, and that one literally first person viewed the entire film. That's the only thing that you see.

SPEAKER_02 41:44

Oh no, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 41:45

Yes, it's it's a lot, it's hard for me to watch that because again, it's literally dizzying for me. But the other stuff I had some trouble with the the the dubbing of the audio over Tap Frank, I just couldn't get past it. It felt like I was watching an ASMR video, it felt like I was watching something you know that I would see from a YouTuber, and it was just like a little bit bothersome for me. It was well done, but it was troubling. So, yeah, that that perspective in the first one, we were just getting so close and so gritty and so nasty. And this one, it's literally like the point of view, the perspective itself was very tough for me to watch. So I think a lot of people will enjoy this. The story's fantastic, the characters are well made, but I it was hard for me to put my eyes on this film and look at it. So it's a hack for me.

SPEAKER_05 42:31

Well, hot damn. Welcome to Mac or Slash. I feel like it's rare that we get a double hack from Mac.

SPEAKER_01 42:37

Usually.

SPEAKER_05 42:37

Super rare, yeah, honestly. Still needs to be on the grill for a little longer. Well, there you have it, folks. The original Maniac from 1980 may have only earned one slash and three hacks, but his remake made out a little bit more favorably. He got three slashes and one hack. We have so much to get to. We have a little bit to explore with but what was Mac's unexpected, satisfying favorite scene out of a movie he ultimately hacked? How does Ryan feel about people who just run off into a dead end kind of location? And what would Alexis have changed about the ending? Stay tuned for more. You can find the original free on Tubi, and you can find the other one, actually, if you if you want to do a trial to IFC, I believe it's $5.99 a month. Check it out. Join us in the second half so we can get down to business. See you in a bit.

SPEAKER_00 43:26

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SPEAKER_05 43:52

Welcome back, folks. You are now entering the spoiler zone for Maniac. Now, the original earned three hags and one slash, then Things turned right back around, and the remake performed slightly favorably with three slashes and one hack. Now, we've got a lot to unpack here, but before we get into the specifics of our ratings, we have the matter of gore to get to. Alexis, I know it was intense. What's up with the gore score?

SPEAKER_03 44:16

Low? Across the board. Just kidding. Across the board, low. This movie was a disappointment. No, I'm kidding. Super chill. Sesame Street vibes. Yes. Until they get their head, tops of their heads ripped off. This movie was crazy. And I said it before, and I said I'd tell my opinions on the gore. It was so intense. It was a bunch of elements coming in and making it, I think, a little too much gore for me. I said it, I said it, I said it. Both of them? Yes.

SPEAKER_04 44:46

Ooh.

SPEAKER_03 44:47

Um, mostly the first one, but the second one, it wasn't like I was turning my head, but I was, but it was the first one. I think it was just like seeing him so sweaty and gross and him talking, and then there's these other voices in the background. There's this lighting, and it was just a little much.

SPEAKER_05 45:04

What I love about this moment right now is that you're saying it's too much gore, but you're saying describing everything about the original, that's not the gore. Like his sweatiness is too gory for you.

SPEAKER_03 45:15

No, what I think is it plays into that. So that he it's in this scene and he's grunting and moating while he's killing these people. And it seemed like a little too real for me. Like it, I uh you know, I like my horror when it's not grounded in reality, just uh why I watch it. Um so I think that's why I was like, oh my goodness, like he straight up slit these people's throat on the beach. Do I need to be turning my head when I'm at the beach? Because clearly I go at random times as a woman. Sorry, Mac, maybe this has happened to you. I don't know, but like every time I'm walking somewhere, even if I'm walking from my car here, I'm always looking behind me, but I'm never really thinking something's actually behind me. But I don't know, it's like that fear that like it's terrifying. And that's why I probably didn't find the kills so enjoyable because I was like, holy crap, he's doing this again to this person. Like, oh my gosh, like they're in in every essence, innocent. You know, some I mean, you got shitty ass teenagers like in other 80s slashers that might have deserved it, but it also might have been the element of intensity too. Like that was so intense, and there was no kind of comedic release, I think. There ain't no clown in this movie. Like, yep, there isn't like something crazy, like birds and uh glass falling and splitting someone in half. Like that, those are so absurd, but this has you know, it's it's just grounded in reality. It was like a little like off-putting. I was like, um, I don't want to watch uh the remake because clearly it's gonna be just as crazy, but had to watch them both back to back, which also might have been why. I was like, this is too much score in one night. Too much scalping. It was, and I think the 80s one looks so real, like the special effects were so great in it, right? Tom Savini, it's your boy.

SPEAKER_02 47:03

Them practical practical special effects were so impactful. Um, I definitely was uh very uncomfortable the first scalping. It's just like he just cuts a cuts a slice and then just slips her skin off of her skull like it's like nothing. And it just gives you this feeling like, could we all just fall out of our skin at any moment if we get a cut the right size? Like, are we just gooey in here? Like it was very uncomfortable. Like, um, you know, I think the remake has a lot of the same efforts, but the CGI definitely takes away from it. There's a few scenes where it stood out to me, and I think CGI works well if it doesn't stand out to you. Um, I'm not saying I'm not that person that's like I never want it, but there's a few times where I was like, okay, like it's a little too much. Um, but the scalpings, dude, the scalpings were overwhelming. Like, and and they didn't stop, and it made it just like it it made the like almost like a little bit of like I'm sick to my stomach, but I've seen so many people have their scalps removed.

SPEAKER_03 48:03

And it's so realistic, it's straight on, it's not cut. I mean, there I think there was maybe one death in the I I don't know, there's one that wasn't like so full-on screen.

SPEAKER_02 48:13

Yeah, and it's uh someone getting their head blown off by a gunshot. So that's the yeah, that's the level of like, hey, we're giving you a break from scalpings, um, but they're gonna have their head blown off. So yeah.

SPEAKER_05 48:24

So there you go. So on a scale like Halloween to terrifier, this has earned its own place on the scale.

SPEAKER_01 48:29

I think it's in the territory like the territory for terrifier.

SPEAKER_03 48:32

Yeah. It's like a different scale. I feel if the Page tapes had been like a little less found footage and a little bit more killer's perspective, and like a few more deaths, I feel like we'd have like I'd be very haunted by that movie, even more haunted than I am now.

SPEAKER_05 48:49

Oh man, that movie's so bad.

SPEAKER_02 48:51

It's good, but it's like ugh. It's like terrifier is like, hey, I'm a clown. I'm staring at you in the pizza parlor. I'm gonna slice you and have hot dog style because it's fun. That's what Terrifier was doing. He's having fun. In this movie, it's just like you see how demented he is, and it's so gory that it I it's not even like the same as terrifier. It's not on the normal scales, I feel like.

SPEAKER_01 49:15

Yeah, it's it's lacking that polish, that feeling of I'm watching a movie. Yes. And you know, this this film is more like I'm watching footage of someone killing someone in real life, without it being, you know, the whole like deliberately faked found footage kind of feeling. It just feels super visceral.

SPEAKER_03 49:36

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 49:37

It's got a texture to it that I don't like.

SPEAKER_03 49:39

And a smell. Oh gosh, this movie totally all of them had a smell. They all smelly, especially all the flies.

SPEAKER_02 49:45

I was like, Oh, the flies, oh the flies, and him just just spraying the raid on like the their faces, basically. I could smell the raid. Oh god, I could like taste it. You ever get like a taste of something aerosol? No, yeah. You don't want that, yeah. It's I have like bug spray or something. So I haven't got a taste of raid, yeah, but or like Lysol or like bug spray where it like accidentally blows towards you.

SPEAKER_01 50:06

Is that a Florida thing? Huffing raid? No.

SPEAKER_05 50:10

Um, hey, look, is the only real Floridian here? No, it's not.

SPEAKER_02 50:13

Okay, I'm very Floridian. I don't want to be tested like this. Born and raised. I was neither of those things, but I am still claiming it.

SPEAKER_03 50:20

Only when it's couldn't be talking about that CGI though, I mean it in the remake. It was funny because I was so excited for that first kill because I was like, oh shit's gonna about to happen. Or maybe it's not. And then like I loved it because it was so different. Like it was something I've never really seen as a kill. Like I've seen stabs, I've seen people's head blown off. Ain't no big deal up in here. NBD. Whatever. Give me something new, but I've never seen that before. And the thing is, like, then you're in this first person perspective, and you're like, okay, what the hell? Am I gonna see what he looks like? I'm gonna see his reaction because he's talking like he's sorry about it, but then he's doing that, and I was just like, oh shit, and then it just like oh gosh, and then her head, and then oh, it's it's crazy. But I have to admit, so if I'm talking about like a favorite kill from the second one, I think it's definitely gonna have to be um the art gallery manager, Rita. It's gonna have to be Rita, and one, she's crazy tied up, yeah. Old lady tied up, butt naked. I was like, look at that old lady butt Poughkeepsie tapes tied up, Poughkeepsie tapes tied up, but also maybe King's X tied up, which is also That's okay.

SPEAKER_01 51:30

No judgment here.

SPEAKER_03 51:31

You're into it, whatever. No, I only like something I could maybe possibly just like go like this and let go, not someone passes out a next. I seen Gerald's game. Oh yeah, yeah, and that shit scares me. You want the risk of danger, but not true danger. Yeah, no true danger. So I I really like that, but then it's just like, you know, this it kind of reflects the scene, the bathroom scene in the first one. So I like that parallel, and then like you're not sure when it's coming, you're like, okay, and then he has her on the bed, you know, and then I think that scalp removal was one of the hardest to watch because she's like alive looking in it. And I'm just like, holy cow, like tied up.

SPEAKER_02 52:10

I swear she was a stunt actor and she actually got her back sliced. Like, I swear that we're talking about the CGI, the cut that he does like down her back when he's running the knife down, and then he actually like digs in. I was like, that's a real cut, dude. Like it yeah, it looked so legitimate. I feel like someone got paid to get their back sliced, or it's a really good CGI artist. I don't know, but it it that was insane.

SPEAKER_03 52:33

My favorite kill from the 80s um would definitely have to be um, I think the sword through the nurse's back. Yeah, and I think because we've talked about this, it's such a stalking moment. And I'm like, oh, she got away. And I literally would probably go like that too, but not actually in it. I'd wait till I got out of the damn building, and then like she's running. And I mean, I've been in New York City. Those subways ain't my jam at all. Like, it isn't.

SPEAKER_02 53:02

You could not pay me any amount of money to go into a subway at night in New York, and I just don't get it. I mean, I'm sorry, a subway bathroom in New York. No.

SPEAKER_01 53:10

Even if it's broad daylight, I'm not going into a bathroom.

SPEAKER_02 53:13

Not even with people, it's not gonna happen.

SPEAKER_05 53:15

You couldn't even pay me to go to New York, honestly. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 53:18

All right, let's calm that down a little bit. It's fun.

SPEAKER_05 53:20

I don't blame you. Whoa, it's just not my speed, all right. That's like a busy, hustling place. I respect it. Don't need to go see it.

SPEAKER_03 53:26

I agree. It's not my place either. I went, I was like, I could deal without this. I don't need to see Times Square.

SPEAKER_05 53:32

I want to see New York, not smell New York. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 53:35

Look, every big city has its own smell. New York happens to smell like trash and feces. That's fine. San Francisco kind of smells like pee.

SPEAKER_02 53:44

Okay, I just want to be here to say y'all are wrong and stop talking trash about New York City.

SPEAKER_01 53:49

I'm not talking trash. New York has a smell. It's still great, but every big city has a smell.

SPEAKER_02 53:53

Everyone has a smell. What's better or worse? Just whether or not you can smell it, right? I'm just saying I'm here, I'm here to say I love New York. I don't want to go to Times Square, but I like that's part of the reason I had any um initial love for these movies is because of their setting. I like New York. I didn't know everyone was so hateful around here.

SPEAKER_01 54:15

I'm not being hateful. I love New York too. It's so much fun. I I a couple years ago I had to stay up in Soho and then like you know, went across town and was just like taking the subway, and it was like super fun to be on the subway and have nowhere to be except for just wherever I wanted to be. Yeah, if I had to live there, it'd be horrible.

SPEAKER_02 54:29

But just imagine not having a car. It'd be so nice.

SPEAKER_01 54:32

I don't know. I kind of like having the freedom of a car. And if somebody were chasing me and I could just hop in my car and get away, that'd be pretty amazing. Except if I ended up like the dude with the shotgun kill. Because that was my favorite kill.

SPEAKER_03 54:43

There we go.

SPEAKER_01 54:44

That was amazing. Was not expecting it, and I'm so glad, you know, who it happened to, that was satisfying. But it was just so unexpected for it to like it's like it's like watching the scene from Jaws where you can see it coming closer, and you're like, someone's getting closer, what's gonna happen? Then you see the gun, and you're like, oh no, they're gonna get shot. And then it's like, no, your head's getting blown off. It's done, it's gone. That was cool.

SPEAKER_02 55:07

Very classic. So for me, in it's interesting. In the original, I don't I have a favorite thing relating to a kill, but it's not the actual kill itself. So when he kills Rita, he just like stabs her with a switchblade, which I have a whole feeling set of feelings about switchblades, like they're like 80s serial killer starter kit. Like, can you get a can I get a can I get a switchblade that's like real skinny and long, man?

SPEAKER_05 55:31

We have to discover later what what else is in that starter kit, but continue.

SPEAKER_02 55:35

I'll I'll work on the ideas. So yeah, he stabs her, which is just like okay, it's not really the most exciting kill, but there's right after that, he like lays on top of her and is laying on the knife still in her, and the blood like kind of pumps out of the wound, and it's like it was like visceral. I was just like, oh, like that little effect there just like because otherwise, I mean, there's hardly anything to remember about that kill. Obviously, there's the whole experience before it, but the kill was just like okay, but then there's just the little detail, it's just like man, it was it was intense, and uh it felt like what would really happen in that scenario. And for the remake, I gotta go with the me cleaver to the mouth.

SPEAKER_03 56:19

Oh my gosh, that was nice. Oh what?

SPEAKER_02 56:22

I mean, not expecting, yeah, maybe unrealistic. I don't know. I don't know what it was, but it I I blinked and missed it, and then all of a sudden saw a man with a cleaver in his jaw, and I was like, what? And ran it back in, like, and then you know, he gets up and still fights and stuff after that. So I guess technically that's also not the kill, so I'm breaking rules here, but like just the meat cleavers separating and like in his mouth. Oh my god, unbearable.

SPEAKER_05 56:47

Oh, yeah, that gave me chills, quite legitimately. It also gave me the idea of like a joker from the Dark Knight origin story. You want to know how I got these scars? I tried to help a young lady out.

SPEAKER_02 56:58

No, thank you.

SPEAKER_05 56:59

It was horrible. I feel like the remake had so many good ones, including the Me Cleaver to the mouth. And it even starts with that opening kill that's far more satisfying than we got in the original. Alexis, I love that you shouted that one out earlier. That was so good, and it surprised me because when we didn't get a kill in those first few minutes before the opening credits start, I thought for sure we weren't gonna get an opening scene kill. My favorite though was Jessica, not just for the tension of her chase, and Ryan, I'm sure you were glad she made it to the subway without going into the bathroom. Oh, so much so. And it was it also wasn't the brutality of that Achilles tendon slice, it was when she was scalped and the camera turns to give us that shot of his body holding that knife in one hand and her scalp in the other, which perfectly matched the poster for the original movie. That was the ultimate, just like, hey, we know what we're doing here, paying respects real quick to the 1980 version. Now, in the original, Mac, I have to agree with you that Tom Civini head explosion was insane. And when I first saw this movie, it went down. I deemed it my favorite 80s head explosion, period. And what's real fun is knowing about this movie. So Tom Civini plays the disco boy, he did all the effects, and he was also the one who pulled the trigger to shoot himself in the face. Of course he did. Is anyone surprised? Dedicated. It's hilarious. I love it. Yeah, that dummy was used in so many other movies, and it's actually it actually got locked in the trunk, and that car is like buried underwater somewhere right now. Hollywood's so funny. They love to do just random things like, oh, we gotta hide this in the 80s, we don't have permits, sink it. That actually was also around the time of one of my favorite scenes from the original. So it was this one stunning shot because while the rest of the movie was shot well, this is the one that stands out. It was when Tom Savini turns on the car, the headlights open up, and you see Frank in front of the car in the fog as the lights come on. That was such a cool moment for me. And then in the remake, it had a number of good scenes. And while Jessica was my favorite kill, I think the fight sequence we get between Frank and Anna in her apartment was definitely my favorite scene from there, and just because of the way that cinematography worked.

SPEAKER_01 59:20

You know, Chris, I'm gonna roll with you on the fight scene, but my favorite part was actually before they started fighting when we're seeing how crazy Frank is in the remake. And Anna's getting to see how crazy Frank is. With like, hey, I think I want to be alone because she's putting two and two together, and then like his reaction is so strong and so obvious to us, because we know, but now it's obvious to her, and she's realizing the plight that she's in. It was such an amazing scene for that actress because we don't even get to see Frank at all, but all we get is her reaction and her processing and figuring out, like looking around the room to figure out how she's gonna try to survive. And I love that whole segment. That was so brilliantly done.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:05

And when he answers the question before she's asked it, and it like took me a minute to realize what was happening, I was like, Oh yeah, but it wasn't even the question that she was gonna ask. Yeah, I didn't even catch that he had revealed he knew where she lived, and then he answered it, and then I was like, wait, what's happening? And I was like, Oh my gosh. Yeah, she's trying to get in front of it.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:23

Can I also just add one thing again with his gross ass hands? He did not know what he was doing with that massage, he was just doing all kinds of weird gestures on her back, and it was very bizarre. I don't know how she could have enjoyed that. Isn't that what it's like anytime you ask a man for a massage? I don't know. I mean, I haven't been massaged by anyone.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:41

You need to go get a professional massage. Massage therapy is amazing, and I recommend it to everybody.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:46

On those hands, when he's scrubbing them. Oh, with the billow. Yeah, I was like, oh my god, I know my grandma uses that shit. And I knew, I know her, like, I mean, she's not scrubbing her hands with it, but I know those like hurt.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:58

Dude, I was wondering the whole time. In the they still make them they do in the uh cover, his face is all beat up, and then in the movie you see his hands are all beat up. So the whole time I was kind of like wondering why. And then when he started scrubbing with the Brillo pad, oh my god, I could have thrown up, honestly.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:16

Ugh, yeah. My favorite part in it more in the um original than in the remake, but um, I just love these mannequins because I think they're so creepy, like, especially you know, you had this first scene and you just um in the 80s version, and you're just like watching it and you're just like, what's going on? Because you don't know, you're just seeing all these dolls in the beginning. You're like, okay, everything's creepy in this freaking house. Efficiency. It's not a house, I guess. Um, and I I like the sleek kind of look that they have in the uh remake. They're cool. Like, don't know why Anna put her face on them, but they kind of looked really weird when it had like a projected face. But I don't know, it's cool. Like, just everything that they're in. The one scene where she's he's like, Can you give me a hand? And she's like, huh? He's like behind you. And I was like, I just love that scene too. Like it was just it was cool, like the plays on that.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:07

Her face is on everyone because she is every woman and every woman he has ever killed and made into a mannequin. It's poetic.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:15

You gotta sing the song if you're gonna say that.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:17

Yeah, Alexis, you're right. They gave the mannequins a purpose in the remake rather than just being like Frank bringing home a mannequin in the original and his neighbor, like, oh, you do do some Christmas shopping. There, it's like it's like his thing, it's like his art form. Like it's his it was his mom's business and all that. So it was just a it I definitely appreciated that different way that they approached it in the remake. For me, I don't have a favorite scene, but my favorite visual element is in both the scenes around the city and the different settings that we had. Like everything felt so real and so lived in. Everything from Frank's room in both Frank's home, Frank's uh car, the the van, um, in the remake, everything like the subways, the subway bathrooms, the the park, you know, him murdering in the middle of the the where he had closed the gate and then looking around because there's buildings with windows everywhere. And like almost none of these movies is based on like, is anyone gonna catch me and stuff like that, you know? And that's exactly what I would expect from someone that thinks they need to take a scalp from someone that they kill.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:25

I love his little shop. I think that's kind of a cool addition. I mean, obviously, like his backstory in in the later version is kind of neat, but I I think his little shop is extra creepy, which was cool to look at. But having like the door to open for Anna as she's like photographing it awkwardly, by the way, um, that was kind of that was kind of interesting to see go down because he's like peering at her through the like metal slats or whatever, and he's like raising it up, and it's like, this is your demise.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:55

And she's like, Hey, I was taking pictures of your mannequins. I know it was only open enough for me to see the feet, but I thought I should take some pictures of them. Like, what what in the world? That meeting was ridiculous.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:05

I'm not gonna yuck their yum, you know, she's in a mannequin feet, whatever. Live your life, I guess.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:10

She was also holding that camera as if she wasn't a real photographer. Oh, uh uh using a flash while photographing glass?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:17

This is funny. No one uses a flash when they're pointing out any reflective surface, please.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:22

Somebody does, but they're probably not a very good photographer.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:24

That's why they take pictures of mannequins. On the subject of photography, I mean, I do have my favorite visual, which we'll get to in a minute. I have to say that the photography themes in both movies were super prevalent, especially when Frank is lecturing in the first film about being able to photograph someone and keep their essence forever, like he's preserving them. And you know, Anna has some qualms with that. She's like, Look, I'm the photographer, I know you can't possess someone forever, and she's thinking rationally about the whole thing. But I will say that there's something very weird that I hadn't considered until I was in my early 20s, and that is when you photograph someone and you're in that line of work, you could very well take someone's last photo and not realize it. Uh so one of my commanding officers suddenly passed away, and I took his last official portrait. So his last official official portrait was like used for the memorial, used in everything in the remembrance materials. And I'll tell you, it's really trippy to like, as a photographer, sit back and think, holy shit, this both of these movies have an incredible depth, especially when you look at Anna bringing mannequins to life with her light and Frank bringing those same mannequins to life with his darkness and his murder. And it's just it's so beautifully deep without being too pretentious. So I loved it. But the execution of that fight scene, once again, is just an example of the stunning cinematography. We get so much POV in other horror movies. You get it in Peeping Tom in the 60s, you get it in Halloween in the Opening shots. This being shot almost entirely in Frank's POV in the remake, you have to consider one, how much goes into like shooting this style and still maintain a cinematic view. And two, recognize how much you gain from Frank's character because of this choice. So I think it's simply put the best move they could have made for this movie because seeing how much he tried, like Lucy, when things start escalating with her, he tried to get away until she pushed him on the bed. And you realize that he's fighting with himself and he doesn't necessarily want to do the things that he's doing, which is wild. For the original, the effects were hands down a great thing for me, but I want to actually start moving us into the worst part. Best part, worst part of either of these movies because it comes from me in the original. Now, if you guys look in our outline, I have some screenshots prepared because I could not be the only person who saw this.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:55

Do not open until prompted.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:58

So here's the thing the worst part, for as incredible the cinematography is in the remake, for as stellar as the cinematography can be in some parts of the original. Look, I get Frank in the original. His sweatiness was too much for me. But my major issue is something that I haven't been able to figure out after multiple viewings, and that's the positioning of hands in a shot from the first kill. So I've included a series of screen jobs for you all to see in our outline here. Now, first off, one, he's wearing gloves. You can see that, right? Second, her clothes change from one shot to another. And then third, you get a final shot of a non-bloody hand that's flexing in the same rhythm of as her quivering body. Also clearly a man's hand. But it's coming from a totally different direction than the rest of her body. It's weird and I don't like it.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:44

It's truly like if if you if someone was just like, hey, feel freaked out right now, and you put your hands in there, you just went, ah, that's what it looks like on camera. Yeah. With your hands jiggling in the air.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:54

It's from somebody else. It's from somebody else. It's like it doesn't make any sense. It's two left hands or something like that.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:00

It's just bizarre. Chris, I fully agree with you. And I'm gonna bring up something similar. There are a lot of things in the original that just don't make sense. And from one scene to the next, you're just like, how did that happen? And also he just immediately comes home after every kill. There's no explanation of like what he does. And anyway, there's a lot of there's a lot of logistical things that gave me issue. And um, one of them, which was actually intentional, but didn't land as what they intended, is during the uh strangulation of the hooker in the in the bed. Sex worker. Okay. The strangulation of the sex worker. It was the 80s, that is not what they called them. She is credited as hooker, but it was also the 80s. Okay, so she was a great woman and she needed to pay her rent, and I respect what she does. Okay. However, they did this thing, which I don't know if any of you picked up one, so I'll be interested to see. While he's strangling her, she changes into a different person and then changes back to herself. And you probably didn't even notice it. I only noticed it because the person that she changes into has red lipstick, and it doesn't make sense. And now I talked to Chris about this because I was like, I don't understand how they could have possibly just thrown in another actor in the middle of the strangulation scene. What happened is it is meant to be a flashback to his like his mother, right? And in the remake, we get those flashbacks all the way through, including a lot of awkward sex on the street with a child watching. But in the in the original, we didn't have those flashbacks. But randomly here, they decided, hey, let's flashback to another person. Only for one second. Almost Chris had already seen it a couple of times and didn't even notice this happened. And it's like little stuff like that that didn't land drove me insane in this movie. And that's what I'm here to complain about.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:48

I did realize what was happening, I guess, because like it was so apparent that it was two different people.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:54

Okay, good.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:54

So, like, as the faces were changing, I was like, oh, we're flashing to somebody else. Is it his mother? Is it an old girlfriend? Who is this? I don't know. She looks pretty young. I can't tell yet until we get further into the film, of course. Like, who we're looking at.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:06

But how long did it take you to realize who it was?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:08

About 4.5 seconds, I think.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:10

No, no, no. To realize that the person that he was like that he was envisioning or imagining another person and it was his mother.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:16

Yeah, about 4.5 seconds.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:17

How? Because he never like it. We didn't know what she was like.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:22

Because I was able to put two and two together based on every other, like, you know, psycho killer movie I've seen. Like, I was like, oh, this is like psycho. He's, you know, mommy issues. Mommy issues.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:32

So I realized that's a popular thing. I haven't seen Psycho, and so I think that is a detriment for me. So I get that. I get that. So maybe I'm maybe I'm harping on this too much, but like nothing about his mom comes up until almost the end of the movie. And so I was like, what how was I supposed to know? Like, you could have told her, like, told tell us that she loves red lipstick, and then I would have known it was his mom.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:53

I don't know. I will say that the actress who plays the mom in that scene does look far too young to look to look and be associated with his mother. So you can guess that and be like 50% chance right, but I don't think it looks like a mother figure. I only look I only realize it because it's the same woman who's credited in the credits as playing the mother. Yeah, I'm willing to die on this on this hill.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:16

I like that you picked that scene because I found that there were so many other scenes that you could tear up a little bit, especially when it comes to dating Anna. Like the whole sequence of them starting to date is so utterly ridiculous.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:28

Don't worry, I have a list.

unknown 1:11:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:31

But when we make it to the photo shoot and he's like acting like I don't know, he kind of seems like he thinks he's a bigwig, like hanging out at the photo shoot, just like chilling while they do their work. And that was so so weird for me to to experience. I mean, it's also very different between the two films because he has a very definite confidence in this movie.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:51

Yeah. It's also she's the most out of his league that she could ever be. Yep. And I won't, I won't keep going, but it doesn't make sense. You're right.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:00

He mentions being a painter. I'm gonna I want to see those paintings, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:04

Yeah. He also showed up at a random person's house and she welcomed him in and she said, Yeah, want some coffee? Hey, I was just developing a picture of you. And I'm like, You took a random picture in a park, yeah, and you're not trying to figure out why this man is at your house. And then they go on a date and they're sitting at the date, and she's like, Well, you know how I am. And I'm like, No, he literally doesn't know how you are because it's your first date. Why are you guys so friendly? Why does any of this make sense?

SPEAKER_05 1:12:29

Here's the problem. She's living in a horror movie and she thinks she's living in a rom-com.

unknown 1:12:33

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:34

It was just it was out of place. You we could say that was the worst part of the movie, Mac. I'm willing to change my bet.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:41

That that is funny. No, that that whole relationship, like the building of it, the fact that it happened was very strange indeed. But you know, I'm I can't judge her type. Maybe she's got a thing for people who appreciate her photography. Like, that's what does it for. Yeah, I don't know. Some people like stuffed animals. Uh, you know, maybe she's a beanie baby kind of person, but whatever, whatever floats your boat. That's not how I move across water, but you know, whatever works for you.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:08

I do like how they um brought in like social dating and online dating into um the 2000s version. Um, I just thought it was pretty cool because the first one, you're like, how does he meet like these random or is how is he charming to these people and all this sort of stuff? But in that one, you just see like, and I think because I've clearly chatted online with people, knock on wood, they've all been who they thought they were, but uh, or I think they are. But I mean, like, even till this day where we've especially to this day where everything's virtual now, but like it's just it's still like a fear that I have that I'm like someone who'd be like timid man or whoa, timid guy, timid man, timid guy, run if he says he's timid, or slight turn on. He was playing her. He was like, Oh, you're too bold for me. I'm like, girl, well, guy, get out of here with that. Also, like looking up the pictures and finding which one to pick. I don't know. I just thought it was really cool that they put that into it, and that's how you know he gets normal. Like, I'm I I'm not sure. I'd love to see like a pre-maniac and post you know, number two, whatever, for this old for the remake, but just to see, like, oh, is this something he actually did a lot of? Or, you know, is this how he found because clearly some guy like that is walking down the street all creepy. I am turning the opposite way, or whooping his ass.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:31

One of the two, probably the latter.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:33

Yeah, I could probably whoop his ass.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:34

I feel like if you want to see more, you should just watch you.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:37

Oh, I had you vibes the whole time.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:39

It's because a beautiful, artistic, creative blonde woman is dating some really sketchy small brunette guy.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:47

Scrawny man, yep. Um, Alexis, did you feel like you wish you understood? Like, I you kind of just said this, but in both of these, I had this feeling like, I wish I understood if they've been doing this or just started doing this. Like, did you get that vibe? Like, have they been losing it or are they just now losing it?

SPEAKER_03 1:15:04

Yes. That's why I was kind of like, is this a thing that he goes and then he spirals out of control? And then, you know, you know, is it is it a bipolar thing? You're up and you're down. Like, I didn't know. I wish I did, but sometimes I appreciate a movie for just putting me in the middle and having me think like that. It didn't definitely definitely wasn't like a turn off for this movie.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:21

I have another thing for the remake, and that is uh we've Mac, you've already talked about the first person point of view a lot. It's really intense. I think it's the worst part of the the remake, but truly the first person vomit and then first person, I guess they didn't actually have sex, but when he met Lucy and is like feeling her boobs for like a really long amount of time and we're experiencing it, it was too much. It was I was uncomfortable, and I like boobs, okay?

SPEAKER_03 1:15:54

I was uncomfortable because she was so straightforward. I was like, gosh, man, like to be fair.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:01

Good for you, Lucy. We're sex positive around here, but who's there's a there's a lot of people that are like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:06

Usually they're 17-year-old girls, though. Yeah, that dialogue was very 17-year-old girl.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:10

Yeah, I was gonna say, I've well, one, I've never said some shit like that, but also I don't think I was that naked and that like vulnerable to people when I was 17.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:19

I was watching it and I was like, if I maybe reach my fitness goals one day, I'll just walk out of a room in in lingerie and just be like, hey, like, no, when has anyone ever? I mean, I know that people do. People definitely do that, okay? I know, I know that is shaking his head. I know, but um in with the feeling that was going on in that room, was not come out of in your lingerie right now. She made that decision. That was not, it wasn't the vibe.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:43

No, I didn't even get that vibe online. I got flirting, but I never got, hey, let's go fuck at this hotel or like wherever they were at.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:49

But clearly she was down. But their whole sex scene, it's not really a sex scene, but their whole sex scene and then him throwing up in the toilet in first person point of view was just almost unbearable. That was something that contributed to like my overwhelmingness in during watching these movies. Like, I was just like, I can't handle this. And I knew the vomit was coming, and I looked away and I still couldn't deal with it. Like, it was just I didn't need that. I didn't need that realism.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:18

I respect that they had him vomit in the toilet, unlike the first film in which he vomits into the sink.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:24

That made me so upset. I was like, you're right next to it.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:26

Also, the noises in the first one didn't make any sense.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:29

So three things about that scene, Ryan. One, that vomit looked like poop. Yep. Two, he was leaving DNA everywhere. Yep. Three, I want to see a prequel where Lucy is actually a predator and lured him there with the thoughts of killing him, didn't not realizing that he was also a serial killer. Ooh, like an alternate universe. Like an alternate you universe.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:52

I did that's exactly what I thought, Chris. I was like, man, this is actually how he got caught. Like literally leaves throw up on the on the sink.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:01

I'm like, oh yeah, there was still puke on that fucking floor.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:04

Yeah. Ugh.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:05

Oh, yeah. Just casually took some some toilet paper and just like wiped the seat. And I was like, That's what you do at a party. Like in a house.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:13

You missed a lot of it. Yeah, dude. Why why even try? So looking at the remake, look, I slashed it. I do have some minor complaints. One, I'm disappointed that Anna ended up dying. Um, in the original, she survived. The worst part for me about the remake, though, was the moment that led to Jessica's death, even though her kill was my favorite. And that was her failure to just climb a fence. Her legs were so long, she was so tall, she was also wearing heels, right? Sure. But it wasn't as though there were particularly pointy bits that guaranteed she'd be impaled if she tried. That fence was barely taller than her. And then there were horizontal bars that she could have used to hoist herself up, and clearly she's super athletic and flexible. That bothered the hell out of me.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:00

It's so funny because I complained about too, Chris, about the first movie where the girl runs into the bathroom in the subway, and I'm like, this is the dumbest thing. I hate when girls are like, oh, something seems wrong. I'm gonna do something stupid. And she also got like completely hysterical, and like everything was just stupid in that scene, and I freaking hated that scene. Haven't even complained about that. But then for this to be the thing that really sets you off, Chris, doesn't even make sense. She made so many good decisions. She tried to go the right places, she's screaming the entire time. She's like flailing around, she's trying, she's she's doing so good to get away, and she panics, she's panicking and lets one option slip from her. But it took her a while to even know that the you know gates were closed, and this is what you hold against her. After she ran in those heels, it's inconsistent with her character.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:50

She did run, she like she was panicked, yes. She ran into something, took her a while to figure out the gate was closed, yes, but also instead of instead of just trying to go over the fence that she realizes locked, and she's like running back and forth for a little while. He has enough time to hide and like unsheathe his weapon. She then tries to go back the direction that he is in, and that frustrated me. Like it's just I feel like the normal inclination would be let me just climb over this thing. If I turn back and I don't see him there, let me climb over this thing because I cannot double back now.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:24

This movie just made me think I should never wear a pair of heels that I can't run. Exactly. Ever. Exactly. Because she was booking it, and I was like, girl, I'm proud of you. Until that ankle hit the ground, separated.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:36

And that was the saddest thing. Because I was like, I feel like I've been one false move from like I've been one shot away.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:44

One move away from that. With with no knife involved, obviously.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:48

I will say though that like you're right, she did make so many good decisions along that way. And you know that her chasing is the equivalent to what we would have gotten with a nurse in the 1980 version in both movies. Their performances were were exactly what they needed to be for what the stories were, right? So, like in the original, the performances were acceptable. They weren't particularly special. The best for me was that nurse up until to the point where she runs into the dead-end bathroom. That was a little weird. I picked up on Frank's connection with his mother, but I don't I do think that you would have trouble piecing that together if you hadn't seen Psycho and known to guess that. But the performances in the remake I thought were stellar. So I felt like every character made you feel something, especially Jessica, you know, with that tension. Some of them made you feel endearment, compassion, frustration, uh, even frustration because they were told a douchebag, like the guy in the beginning, uh, who's just hitting on this girl saying, We got weed and and drinks and our limo. It's like your options should not be get killed by a serial killer or go into a limo with a douchebag. Those should not be your options for survival here.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:51

I gotta give both films credit for having some great performances. I think they really delivered. The actors did a fantastic job giving us either really horrible characters or characters that we could try to feel something for or characters that we could yell at and tell to get out of the room. And I think in either film that that rings true. I don't think there was like especially horrible performances. There's probably a bunch of like mediocre like actors spread throughout each film that you just don't even pay attention to. But in terms of anyone that we're looking at for any period of time, um, I was I was satisfied with with how well they did. And I gotta say, both films, Frank, super creepy, well done. And these actors have been in other things where they weren't incredibly scary, creepy guys. So obviously they're doing something, so they're not just being themselves. So I was I was pretty impressed with it.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:42

Definitely impressed with that performance from both. And it's crazy because they're like complete opposite, you know, big, brussy guy, sweaty. I don't even want to talk about it anymore. I don't even know why I keep bringing it up. But I do agree. I don't think nothing stood out to me as super bad. You know, a little bit of the screams were annoying in the 80s one, um, and a little bit of the breathing, but like that wasn't a character's fault. That was just act scared. Uh but no, I like it. I think you feel for these women. Um, at least I did, and I was like, oh my gosh, like what an unfortunate position to be in and vulnerable and stuff like that. So I definitely felt for that. I did like the um performance though from the agent in uh the 2000 version. I I I say I like her. I like it because she came off as a bitch, kind of like in the beginning. And I think because I was really kind of feeling for Frank a little bit at some point, and I was like, he's really got all this drama like going on. Also trauma.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:43

People really do say stuff like that and are just like oblivious to how trash it is. Like, what do you do? Just like dive in the dumpster for them. Like, it seems like a dramatic thing to say, but like humans actually say stuff like that when they don't understand things and they suck.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:57

Yeah, those are real people, and then she totally disregarded him once he was starting to swing. He's like, Oh, so and so. And I was like, She's the one I thought possibly deserved, but not completely.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:08

Yeah, like no one deserves to be hogtied and scalp, but if anybody did, it'd be her. And favor kill.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:14

Yeah, I have to agree with everything we've said. I think both of these eras of of movies tend to, for me, have an ability to have some pretty trash characters. Like characters in movies in the 80s can be really like annoying, fake, like hard to relate to. And in the 2010s-ish, like you can get some we've seen some bad stuff from those times, you know? And I think these characters, none of them are perfect, probably, but there's a lot of good stuff here.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:44

So I have one kind of topic on my mind, and I know um it was kind of like right before our spoiler break, but um, I would love if this ending had especially well, I guess when I'm looking back at it, it'd be the um 1981 version, but like I would really like if there was some sort of, you know, he's getting ripped apart, which I think is like some crazy crap. Like I I love it though. It's I think you see like him finally like spiraling because I'm sure like serial killers hit a point where they're just like, damn, I just did a lot of killing and I think I'm done, but my body won't let me, so I'm gonna go crazy. That sounds about right. Great theory about life, too, right? Um but yeah, so I felt like I really would have loved if the police officers came and then saw him, and he had like like if they had did the actions from the mannequins coming to life. So this would all have to be like segued in between the two, but the whatever was done to him by the mannequins was he him actually doing it to himself, and then he kills himself at the end. I thought that would have been great. And he kind of did that, I guess, in the remake.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:58

Yeah, a little bit. So you would have liked to see it in the original, like the like I would like that to be the ending. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That would be good.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:06

It's interesting because in the remake, he gets stabbed by a mannequin hand by Anna and then gets hit by a car, so you can assume that he bleeds out once he finally makes it back. In the original, he was supposed to have killed himself, but did not succeed because he opens his eyes. But I love that idea, Alexis. That would have been really cool to see the self-mutilation as we're seeing it through his eyes of like all the all the mannequins doing that. That would have been nuts.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:31

Yeah, especially in the um the remake, because you get this like kind of like compassion for him because you see all the trauma. I don't think you got as much of that in the um in the original. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:43

I do love the part where they peeled back his face and he was a mannequin there. That was pretty awesome.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:46

Yeah, that was sick. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:49

I think it would have been cool if they could have added in like his mom, who's obviously like influencing his actions throughout the film, like her showing up at the end, whether it's you know, standing over him or punishing him or whatever it is.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:02

Yeah. I like that idea too. I think I really enjoyed like you're so right, Alexis. I feel like you don't have the compassion in the original. You have more of the escalation of like insanity, though. I feel like you can like, especially with how much he like talks to himself and everything in the original, you can see him just kind of like losing it, losing it, like losing control of everything, and then like all these mannequins are attacking him and stuff like that, and he ends up stabbing himself. Um, the thing in the ending that that really messed me up, and I think Chris kind of mentioned sometimes the ending is really a definer of the movie, and like the whole graveyard scene, truly, like I could not have enjoyed anything less. And I understand that it was like again a part of his insanity, but like when a hand came out of the ground, I was like, really?

SPEAKER_03 1:27:54

This is a night of the living dead. Yeah, this is a serial killer movie. Where were these knocks when we watched? Watch Phantasm. Well, that was like a sci-fi movie that had its right place. This was not well, I guess this wasn't really ground.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:06

Yeah, that was a dream.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:07

This is a hallucination. Okay. No, no. It's like I totally understand. If you want to tell me he's strangling a woman and imagining it's his mother, okay, I'm on board. Cool. When they first off, the graveyard in the 80s in the 80s in this movie is just so corny. Like it's like the hocus pocus versus thrillers. Oh my god, that's exactly what it is. So it was already kind of like questionable after their relationship whole date, whatever situation was very questionable. And then for that to happen, where he like she reaches out and like and then oh god, it just it just really rubbed me the wrong way. And it it took away the reality of his insanity to me. Like it made me feel less concerned for him or or less into it, I guess. I I don't know. It just I did not like that scene.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:59

I think what we see in a lot of modern movies to where the hallucinations are more tolerable is they do the whole like stare off into the distance and hallucinate thing, where it's obvious when they snap back because they're still staring off in the distance. Whereas in this film, like he's actively involved when he's like seeing these things, like he's like freaking out because his zombie mother is like exploding through the ground or whatever, and then oops, she's not actually there, right? And it's like obviously we knew she wasn't there, but I feel like if he was just like looking down and staring and staring, and then like she starts to like crawl through, and then he starts to lose it and he snaps back to him just staring. You'd be like, Okay, he's just hallucinating because that's what he does, because that's what we see in every other modern movie.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:38

But see, in the remake, it just like like that end scene is so chaotic because you see flashes back and forth between the girls and the mannequins. And so you you get that feeling, and I just don't understand why his mom coming out of the grave even makes any sense to the story at all. Like it just it I it just is a I don't know. I don't know. Maybe I'm I think I'm still a little hypercritical sometimes, but maybe everyone thinks that. Um it just it just didn't add to it and it took away a lot for me.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:10

Maybe it was just like, yeah, we got Tom Savini, we gotta have like a zombie scene.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:13

Uh kind of seemed like it.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:16

Because that shotgun scene, I can't get over it, it was so good. And that was that was the thing that shocked me. I don't know if I made that clear earlier, but from the first film, that was the one like surprising scene that I absolutely loved was Tom Savini apparently shooting his own head with a shotgun.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:31

This is like kind of a kind of off-brand for you. It's not what I expected to be the shocking thing that you enjoyed.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:36

It was shocking because like I didn't expect that it was going to happen whatsoever. And then when I saw his face, I was like, something is going down, and I don't know what it is yet. Because something always goes down when he's involved. And uh it was pretty awesome. Like it was so unlike all of the other kills. Maybe that's why I'm okay with it. Because it's not Frank strangling women.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:56

So is it safe to assume you'd never watch these movies again, Mac?

SPEAKER_01 1:31:00

You know, probably. Probably pretty safe to assume that I would never re-watch either of these films again. Um, and probably pretty safe to assume that I wouldn't advise my close friends and family to watch them either. I like again, if you're into it and you like them and this is your thing, like go for it. I'm just not gonna re-watch it or be around when other people watch it.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:21

I'm gonna maybe surprise people, but I would I would re-watch these movies. Not not together ever again. Maybe not even in the same like six-month period. I think you need some time between maniac. But like I know my dad is into old scary movies, and I feel like I'd watch I'd watch the old maniac. Not you know, I'm not gonna go out of my way. It's not my favorite thing, but I'd watch it. And I'd I'd if I wanted to see a more modern, pretty good, scary movie based around a scre serial killer, I'd rewatch the new one.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:49

Can I give you like a pro gamer move?

SPEAKER_02 1:31:51

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:51

Watch Lars and the Real Girl. Oh, that's creepy as a horror movie, and then watch this movie.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:57

Yes, I never even heard of it.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:58

It's not a horror movie, it's not at all.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:00

It's with how does it relate to gosling? Oh, he has like a dummy girlfriend.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:05

Yeah, he's got a real doll.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:06

Oh gosh.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:07

Okay. For that, you can watch that other 80s or 90s movie about a mannequin that actually comes to life. Then you can watch this movie.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:14

Weird science.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:15

I'm good on the mannequin.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:17

They make her out of a computer. She's not American, and she's gorgeous. I love that movie. Weird science is amazing.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:22

He's an android.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:24

Beep boop bleep beep.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:25

Um, actually, I might why watch the 2000s version again for sure. I'm pretty sure. I don't know when or in what circumstance, because it's definitely going to be like, hey, let's uh watch this kind of movie.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:36

But uh Hey, you like scalpings? Let's pop it in.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:39

It's not like a like I would totally suggest anyone watch, you know, Tucker and Dale versus Evil, but in this one, it I'd really have to like know my audience for this one. Definitely.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:48

You can't just be watching this around random people.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:50

Oh, they'll think you're crazy.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:52

Like, have you ever had friends and you're like, oh, I have to watch a movie for the podcast, and they're around and you watch something and they're like, What? And I'm like, Well, it's just what I do. This is not one you want to get caught watching casually. Like, are you watching people get scalped? Well, maybe.

SPEAKER_05 1:33:06

So we've said a lot about these movies so far. We've had some high points, we've had some low points. We need to do as we do with every old verse and new episode, and do the head-to-head comparison. Now, for Maniac, which one had the better visuals? The 1980 version or the 2012 version? 2012.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:24

Agreed.

SPEAKER_05 1:33:25

Oh, for me, it's the 80s. I love the griminess. See, I agree with you on the griminess, and my heart is there because I love that film grain, but I'm struggling because I love the cinematography of the 2012. So I'm gonna have to give it to the 2012 this time. But which one do you feel had the better approach to story?

SPEAKER_02 1:33:43

So overall, I would go with the remake because I feel like the story was more full in it it made more sense overall.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:52

I can see that. You swayed me. Let's go for the the 2012 as well.

SPEAKER_05 1:33:56

2012. And there you go, a unanimous 2012. Now, what about better performances?

SPEAKER_01 1:34:01

Yeah, that's tough because we actually get to see a full performance in the flesh in the 1980s. And maybe that's nitpicking because I wasn't a fan of the dubbing, but I'm gonna go 1980.

SPEAKER_05 1:34:13

I go I go remake. Yeah, 2012. Mac, do I leave you alone or do I join you?

SPEAKER_01 1:34:19

Live your truth.

SPEAKER_05 1:34:20

Man, it's difficult. I'm gonna go remake only because of how insane it must have been for Elijah Wood to not only do the audio dubbing he had to do, but also help support the camera work for the remake. I feel like the amount of presence he had to have for that was just insane. But Ryan, I believe you did have a question for us.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:42

Yeah, so we talked about characters overall and story, but as far as Frank, what's our what's our favorite Frank?

SPEAKER_01 1:34:50

I'm going 2012 as well for this one.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:53

You literally just said how much you hated it.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:55

I know I did. That being said, for favorite Frank, I prefer his Frank. Okay. I think Elijah Wood, like, I think we have a Frank that is scary because he seems kind of weak and unsure at times and then like explodes versus like the always confident Frank.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:12

I like that one better, so I'm going for the 80s version.

SPEAKER_05 1:35:16

I'm gonna go Elijah Wood in the remake because I love the unassuming, the I know there is something wrong with me. I am trying to be better, but I am still with all the victims I have, I am also a victim to myself and I can't seem to defeat it. For some reason, I felt some very m minute amount of compassion for him in some small moments. I sound like I'm condoning serial killers and I don't.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:43

Yeah, I mean, there was compassion building in this movie, but I'm not sure that you should feel it for him. I don't think he deserves. Um, for me, it is actually the 80s. I Frank is actually like what kind of saved the the original movie for me.

SPEAKER_05 1:35:58

Interesting. I just found him too sweaty. But I will say that his psychotic range as an actor has a better turn radius than my old Jeep. Because he went from like zero to a hundred like that. Are you saying he turned like a smart car? I'm saying he's turned better than a smart car, quite frankly. Well, there you have it, folks. Uh, the remake has kind of won out here in terms of majority rules, but there are some things that we tied on, alright? So we're gonna have to hear from you. The original maniac earned one slash and three hacks, but the remake scored more favorably with three slashes and one hack. Well, we've certainly had a robust discussion here, it doesn't end here. We need you to weigh on on which Frank was superior. We need you to weigh in on whether it's dumb to run into a bathroom to try to hide in the subway. We want to know what you think. So keep in mind there are a number of ways you can reach out to us, starting with our website, hackerslash.com, and on our social media accounts on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:54

And if you know better than to run into a subway bathroom, maybe at any time of day, but especially when someone's chasing you, please hit us up at the Hacker Slash Hotline. Our number is 757-606-0128. You can text us, call us, leave us a voicemail, or a really creepy audio message. We're down for all of it.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:12

Or if you collect and refurbish mannequins, you can send us an email to feedback at hackerslash.com. If you've enjoyed listening to this episode, consider becoming one of our patrons. Visit patreon.com slash hacker slash, and you can get exciting perks for as little as one dollar per month.

SPEAKER_05 1:37:26

We'll see you next time. Bye.