SPEAKER_06 0:04

Who doesn't love like a little Saturday morning mattress hide?

SPEAKER_02 0:10

Greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hacker Slash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. Sit back, relax, and unwind. If though this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack, a total joke, a waste of time, or a slash.

SPEAKER_00 0:27

Totally killer, pun intended.

SPEAKER_02 0:29

We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, we're rating these movies with the perspective we've gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris, and I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast. This week I'm joined by the Superfly Space Guy Mac. Hola, muchachos, the Coward the Creeper Ryan, and the Scream Queen Paris.

SPEAKER_06 0:48

Hey lame brains.

SPEAKER_02 0:50

We've got zombies in this episode, folks, but this time we're tracing back to the roots of the subgenre to find the film responsible for the undead creatures we know and love in present day. Before we get too far down memory lane though, we have some follow-up.

SPEAKER_06 1:02

We do have some follow-up, Chris. As our friends on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook may recall, we recently asked them how they felt about a sci-fi cult classic Phantasm. It was actually a pretty polarizing movie for us. If you haven't listened to that episode, go check it out. But surprisingly, it was actually like pretty even in the poll results. I had to do a little math, but it turns out 42% of our listeners gave the film a hack, and the rest, they gave it a slash.

SPEAKER_03 1:27

What?

SPEAKER_06 1:28

Yeah, and the people that gave it a slash, like it was a hard slash. Um, we have a lot of comments because this was a very popular movie, as far as our fans go. We have a comment from Ken on Facebook who said, just watched it, thanks to Tubi. Have to say, it didn't grab my interest at first, though it starts with a wild opening, but it got better for me as it progressed after the gory kill. And I think we all know what kill that is.

SPEAKER_03 1:49

Oh, do we?

SPEAKER_06 1:50

Though it is a strange movie, one thing I love about the movie is the score. I can see me watching it again, perhaps with a friend, and might watch the second Phantasm next month for October, which is now. So for that, it's a solid slash.

SPEAKER_02 2:02

I love that. And speaking of scores, I would just like to point out that I'm not the only one, it turns out, who likes listening to horror movie scores to unwind. People came out in my defense.

SPEAKER_06 2:10

Yeah, people came out of the woodwork to be like, that's not weird. We stand with Chris Rojas and her spooky playlist.

SPEAKER_02 2:15

Thank you. I'm still not so sure.

SPEAKER_06 2:18

We also have uh a brand new patron that we want to give recognition to. Uh the name is Ken. So, Ken, thank you so much for your support and welcome to our horror family. And that is our follow-up.

SPEAKER_02 2:29

Alright, now this episode is a tale of two directorial debuts as we compare an influential classic by George A. Romero from 1968 to its 1990 remake. While the original film wasn't the first zombie movie ever made, it was the first to depict the reanimated corpses as cannibalistic, thus giving birth to a subgenre of horror that has exploded in popularity in the decade since. Tom Savini, who we're all very familiar with in recent months on this podcast, was originally tapped to do the makeup for the original film, but was drafted by the US Army and sent to Vietnam shortly before production. He finally got his chance with the film though when Romero selected him to direct the 1990 remake. This week, we're talking about both renditions of the iconic Night of the Living Dead. It's important to remember, friends, that the original film is incredibly prominent, not only for what it did for horror, but for how it was shaped by and in turn impacted the time it was made in. It released in the midst of the civil rights movement and famously featured a black male protagonist as the clear hero. To add an additional layer of context there, this movie's final edit was completed on April 4th, 1968, and Romero was driving with a completed cut in his car when he heard the news of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.'s assassination on the radio. This film shifted our culture in 1968 and has had a lasting impact in present day. Now I'm sure our conversation will inevitably lead us there, but if you're interested in a deeper dive than we get to in this podcast on the impact of this film and so many others on black horror, we have a bonus episode available discussing that for free on Patreon. I was joined by an incredible guest named Jasmine to unpack the shutter documentary, Horror Noir, a history of black horror. The link to that episode is going to be down in our show notes. Now, getting down to business for these movies, who has seen either of them before?

SPEAKER_00 4:16

I've seen the original, but not the remake.

SPEAKER_04 4:18

I'm surprised actually by that. I haven't seen any, of course. I'm I don't know why I even answer this.

SPEAKER_06 4:23

Yeah, I'm the same. I haven't seen either of these movies before, but I thought that I did. Um, but I also get the title of different zombie movies confused very easily. So I was wrong.

SPEAKER_02 4:32

Yeah, there are a lot of movies in the Dead series, so that's understandable. It's been a while since we covered a zombie movie on the podcast. Ryan, we learned in Train du Busin that you were the kind of person who loves zombie movies, but if you're in a zombie apocalypse, you'd want to be taken out real quick. Uh, don't even want to make it past the initial outbreak.

SPEAKER_04 4:50

I just want to note, I think it's been like about a year since I said that. And I have had to revisit that conversation with people in my life so many times since I've made that statement publicly. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 5:02

Ooh.

SPEAKER_04 5:02

I'm consistently like defending my my strength. I'm like, I I mean, I don't just want to be killed, but I don't know. I still kind of do.

SPEAKER_02 5:09

I don't want to actually suffer, that's all. I just don't want to suffer. Right. So, Paris, Mac, for you guys, where do you stand with zombie movies and the idea of zombie apocalypses in general?

SPEAKER_06 5:20

So I'm gonna disappoint a lot of people and say that I really don't like zombie movies. There's something about them that just doesn't scare me, or I don't know. It's usually like an action movie and they all feel the same. Um, and I guess there's just so many tropes that get rehashed over the ones that I've seen. Um, but in thinking about like my favorite horror movies, I realize that they're like non-horror zombie movies, like let's say uh Warm Bodies.

SPEAKER_02 5:45

That's a good one.

SPEAKER_06 5:46

That was a really fun zombie movie. Shawn of the Dead. Never watched that one. But also there's like a Disney Channel original movie musical called Zombies, and like that's a lot of fun. But as far as like zombies being like a scary thing, I don't know. And I can kind of see where Ryan's coming from with like wanting to die early in a zombie apocalypse because then you get to be a zombie and then you really have nothing to worry about.

SPEAKER_04 6:04

I mean headshots, but other than that.

SPEAKER_02 6:06

I mean, no stress though, they're not conscious of that.

SPEAKER_06 6:09

Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_04 6:10

Or are they? Are zombies people?

SPEAKER_02 6:12

Are we getting are we degrading them? Are you running on a platform of zombie rights 2020? I don't think that's the platform I want to go for.

SPEAKER_00 6:20

But but maybe someone should. I've watched a lot of zombie films and TV shows all throughout my life. Big fan. Um, but this is really the granddaddy of them all, and it really laid the foundation for all of those films and TV shows I have come to enjoy. And I'm happy to say that I just heard The Walking Dead is finally going to end. Nice. Even though they're going to have spin-offs and stuff, so that's fine. But I think 10,000 seasons is enough. I stopped watching a couple seasons ago.

SPEAKER_04 6:48

I'm actually still watching The Walking Dead.

SPEAKER_00 6:51

Yeah. I mean, that's okay. Like, I think up until a certain point it was really enjoyable. But then after that point, I was like, I have been following this since day one, episode one, watching each episode on TV, and now I just can't. I have to stop.

SPEAKER_04 7:05

Yeah. We actually have a coworker that uh really still likes it and is like, I wish more people still watched. And like, no, I haven't watched an episode in like six months, so I'm not really watching it.

SPEAKER_06 7:16

I'm honestly shocked that it's still on the air. Didn't that show come out like 10 years ago? Yep.

SPEAKER_00 7:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:22

Well, here we are.

SPEAKER_00 7:23

I'm curious, Paris, if uh some of the Of the Dead movies that you've watched, if one of them is Dawn of the Dead in the Mall, because that's the one I think almost everyone in you has seen, and also one of the best ones ever.

SPEAKER_06 7:34

Yep. When I sat down for this with my boyfriend, I said, Is this the one where they're in the mall? And he's like, No. And I was like, okay, then I haven't seen it.

SPEAKER_02 7:40

At least you at least you've seen that one though. Now, Mac, so you saw the original. What was your history there? Yeah, is it something that you saw recently? Is this something that's been in your life for a while?

SPEAKER_00 7:50

It's been a long time since I watched it. And I've really only seen clips of it every now and then to kind of remind me what a masterpiece it is. So this was the first time I think I've sat down and watched it start to finish. How old am I? And probably like a almost 20 years.

SPEAKER_02 8:09

Wow. I think I had a similar experience. I've seen both of these movies before. I'm a fan of Romero's work, particularly Dawn of the Dead in Paris that you were talking about. I've seen the 1990 version a few times. And the 1968 version was something that I watched and loved on many occasions growing up. You know, especially when you consider the fact that it was in public domain, this movie plays in so many other horror movies. Famously Halloween 2. Uh it's playing in the opening kill scene when you get past the previously on Halloween section. And among the series, I would say these aren't the movies that I've watched the most, but I felt familiar, you know. I did realize though, since I was a kid, I've only watched the original Knight of the Living Dead a handful of times, like since I was a small child, and only in fragmented pieces in the background while doing like pumpkin carving or other fall activities. I realized when sitting down and watching it for this episode, I'm like, I can't think of the last time I actually watched this start to finish and like appreciated the gravity of it. But for those who hadn't seen either one of these movies before, what were you expecting?

SPEAKER_04 9:16

So before I answer that, can I just uh because I have a thought in my head, I just want to make sure I'm right. This is the first zombie movie, right? The original.

SPEAKER_02 9:25

Yeah. It's not the first zombie zombie movie. Like zombies appeared in movies before this, like reanimated dead. This is the first movie in which the reanimated dead were cannibals and thus gave birth to the zombies that we know of presently. The modern zombies got it.

SPEAKER_00 9:41

Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 9:42

My expectations, I think, are uh we're actually pretty high for this coming in for both. Um, just because I've heard of Night of the Living Dead, uh, I've had a lot of uh conversations about it, talk to my boyfriend about it. He's notoriously said it's a super gory movie. Um, and so I went in really expecting, well, one, expecting a lot of gore. Um, and I just just expecting to see like in the original, just expecting to see like the beginning of something that's evolved so much to the point maybe now we're even like sick of this genre. And uh yeah, that's exactly what it felt like for sure.

SPEAKER_06 10:17

Uh for me, I kind of felt similarly, Ryan. I once I realized that this was like a black and white film, the 1968 version, I was like, oh, okay, so this is old, old, not just like 70s, 80s old. We're going back into the 60s with this one.

SPEAKER_02 10:30

It's my kind of old.

SPEAKER_06 10:32

And Chris, you actually said in the group chat you were like, um, there's a colorized version and a black and white version. I was like, I feel like I owe it to this to watch the black and white version. So I did that.

SPEAKER_04 10:40

Nice same.

SPEAKER_06 10:41

And it's not often you get to watch a black and white movie uh for a podcast. So I was like, I'll take advantage of it. But I was expecting it to be like problematic because of the time period, and I was also expecting to not enjoy it whatsoever because I'm not a big fan of zombie movies. Um, for the remake, I was really curious to see how they were going to approach it, whether it be like a shot-for-shot remake or a reinvention of the story. Um, and in some ways, uh, I'm pleased with some of the changes that they made, but overall, um, I don't think I got exactly what I was expecting with this watch.

SPEAKER_02 11:10

With the watch of the remake?

SPEAKER_06 11:12

Both, to be honest.

SPEAKER_02 11:14

Okay, we'll see how that shakes.

SPEAKER_00 11:16

You know, having seen this before, but it's been a long time, going into watching the 68 film, I was expecting its glorious black and white film. It's amazing. The light, the shadows, it's something I looked forward to. And I I did mention, Chris, like, hey, they have a colorized version. Which one, you know, should I watch? Should I go see it all brand new with the spectacular edition of color? I decided, you know what, just like Paris, it's probably right to watch the original version, especially if it's what you remember. I feel like it would be strange to suddenly make that change to it. But I mostly was looking forward to I was expecting to see, of course, that standout performance from Dwayne Jones. And that's my big expectation for this film. So that that performance is absolutely stellar, and it it never would have happened with any other actor. So the character of Ben was written without Race in mind, without Dwayne Jones in mind. And when he was cast, they didn't change his character. He wanted it changed, which I find absolutely phenomenal. He was gonna be this like angry truck driver guy, just like this like typical working man truck driver. And he wanted him to be a bit more subdued. I mean, this is coming from an actor who is absolutely a stellar human being, I think was a professor as well, and you know, had some great experience. So the fact that they changed it and it worked out so well, I was looking forward to his character. And after they made those changes, everyone agreed with the changes that he made. They said Dwayne was an intellectual, and that feeling came out in the way he played the character. Going from 68 to 1990, having not seen 1990, I expected more gore, more blood, worse music, and a much faster pace. That's what I was thinking.

SPEAKER_02 12:54

I'm wondering, did you expect Tony Todd to be better or worse? Or equal to Dwayne Jones?

SPEAKER_00 13:00

I didn't realize Tony Todd was in it. Same. I didn't look up any information about 1990, and boy, what a nice surprise that was.

SPEAKER_04 13:09

Were you so excited? Like when I saw Tony Todd, I was like, oh my gosh, I didn't even know I was watching a great movie today.

SPEAKER_05 13:16

Me too. I was like, ooh, what a treat. Tony Todd is in this. I got so excited.

SPEAKER_02 13:21

Oh, that's so cute. Look at you guys fawning over Tony Todd and hear some stands.

SPEAKER_05 13:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:26

Well, we wanted to sneak one in now that uh now that Candyman's been postponed to next year. So there you are. You're welcome.

SPEAKER_06 13:32

Can we say, just as far as Candyman goes, the opening shot, the first shot that Tony Todd is in.

SPEAKER_04 13:38

It's amazing.

SPEAKER_06 13:39

Where he has like a crowbar. For a second, I was like, is that a Candyman reference? And then I checked the timeline. I was like, no, but is it foreshadowing? Maybe.

SPEAKER_04 13:48

What it is is proof that Tony Todd really is Candyman. He just no one else. Two years before Candyman was released.

SPEAKER_02 13:56

So I expected this to be like a fairly clinical viewing, right? I know that sounds terrible, but I feel like I was just it was just gonna be a refresher, especially since I've seen both movies, you know the story, you know what happens. And if you've seen one zombie movie, you're well prepared for many others, right? I'll put it this way. Does anyone here listen to Andy Grammar?

SPEAKER_06 14:15

No, who's that? He's a singer of some sort. I'm trying to remember that one song I know that he sings.

SPEAKER_02 14:20

That's okay. I'll school you on this one song that's relevant to this episode. He has this song called Fresh Eyes, and it's him singing to a woman that he's been with for a long time, right? But he's looking at her on this particular occasion, and it's super sweet. Uh he feels like he's seeing her again for the first time. He's looking at her with fresh eyes. And it's not a perfect comparison by any means, but that's what that's what this viewing experience was like for me. When I originally watched these movies, I was just this Hispanic kid growing up in a racially diverse area, watching them as zombie movies, naive to the injustices of the world. So for the original, I just the gravity of how traumatic the original is didn't hit me until this viewing. Um, with the added context now of being 30, of living life, experiencing the world, seeing the way it works, knowing clearly how society operated at the time this film was made, and understanding the point that Romero was at in his career. And that led me to how different the remake experience felt for me after appreciating the full weight of the original. I learned quite a bit about Thompson Vinnie's career outside of film a few years ago, and it never clicked with me that he directed this movie. And so it gave me a whole new angle to view this movie from, and it made for a really special experience that resonated with me in particular just because of um the nature of my job, what my job was in the Navy. But how are you folks feeling while you were watching both of these?

SPEAKER_06 15:40

I'll be honest. Um, during the original, I committed a sin that I swore I would never commit during a horror movie podcast episode. Um and I pulled out my phone uh only for a brief minute to scroll on Instagram, and then I was like, oh crap, no, I have to pay attention to this movie. I gotta watch it for the pod. Um, but I my mind just naturally was not stimulated to the point that it was holding my attention. Um, and that changed as the movie progressed, but uh I was a little bored in the first one. The second one, though, I think uh did a lot better job of keeping my attention because it was more uh I guess better spaced out with the action and eventful uh moments of the of the movie. Um so I was much more engaged and interested in seeing where things would go uh the second watch around.

SPEAKER_04 16:23

Yeah, I could understand why you might like pull your phone out during the first one, you know, if you're not like just going on the excitement of it being like a landmark film. There's like some moments where I got tired of some of the other characters when watching the original. I feel like Ben really stood out and all the women were the worst thing that's ever existed. So I was thinking about how old this movie is, and I I know like we did House of Wax, the original, which was 1953, um, which was, you know, before this original movie, but it it's uh closer to that than other things that I've watched. And I hated the original House of Wax, and I was so thankful that the feeling of this was better than that. Like, even being in black and white, I didn't miss color, I didn't miss like I don't know, I even felt like I enjoyed effects more than things that I've seen in like the 70s and 80s and 90s, and um, so I was very thankful that it would it it exceeded my expectations based on its time period. And then this other thing that was going on, watching the original, is I felt this racial tension and I had a lot of time during this movie where I was trying to figure out if it's because of the times we're in now that I was feeling it. Not that it didn't exist in the movie in general, but like I was just like waiting for N-words to fly. And I know that part of that is because of the times we're in now, and part of that is because of the movie itself. And so it was just so interesting the whole time to have like this expectation because we have this like very jerky character. And like when you have a jerky white man in like the 60s and a black man and a white woman, there's a certain way these things usually go.

SPEAKER_03 18:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:05

And like the certain certain types of conversations that are had in movies like this and dialogue, and there's just stuff that I was expecting to happen. And I'm actually thankful that it didn't go like like intentionally, very blatantly far that way, because it would have like really taken away from the movie, I think. In the new one, I felt very few of those same things. Uh, I just felt entertained during the new one. Uh, and and I think it's you know, a lot of it has to do with being a similar story, but it was entertaining.

SPEAKER_06 18:34

I definitely felt that too, Ryan, with the original, that that racial tension and the like exactly like you said, I was waiting for somebody to like, you know, say the N-word or like make it about that. So I was there was like this like ticking time bomb in my mind. I'm glad I wasn't the only one.

SPEAKER_02 18:48

No, it was very palpable. Quite literally what this film was known for. Yeah. More than being a zombie film. But you have to understand, we didn't know that. So I had no idea. I didn't want to plant any seeds in your head.

SPEAKER_00 18:58

While watching the original film, honestly, I felt like I was watching a work of art. It lacks the burden of modern complexities, and instead it provides a clear, succinct dialogue. A leading actor whose performance was masterful and powerful, both storytelling and emotionally resonant. It was wonderful to watch. And it's a story that's so straightforward without being boringly simplistic. I think when you get a lot of small indie films now, if they're set in one room or mostly around one room, it gets really simplistic and really boring. You don't get that here, which is nice. And The Undead are kind of shockingly human compared to later films. So it was kind of interesting to go back and watch that and see this rendition of zombies because we're so used to the like monster zombies with, you know, their heads splayed open, yet they're still alive somehow or whatever's going on. But no, it's so much fun to watch. I mean, it's literally like sitting down in film class and learning about history every moment of the way. I mean, I know you guys weren't captivated the whole time, but I sat down, hit play, and if I had to get up to get some water, I hit pause. I wasn't about to let it run in the background. While watching the remake, though, you know, my expectation was more blood, more gore, and we got all that, and we got more realistic effects. But I mean, it's 22 years later, so it like kind of makes sense that you would get that, and you also have Tom Savini. So, you know, I'm kind of getting what I would expect to see, which was which was a good thing. Surprisingly, though, the special effects team kind of kept the effects a little bit restrained because they didn't want to disrespect that OG film in which the effects were meaningful. They weren't just like over-the-top blood pooling out, spilling everywhere, which was kind of nice to see because I I didn't want like cool new effects and then have them be over the top, like you get in some of you know today's zombie movies.

SPEAKER_02 20:47

Yeah, I didn't want some of that uh Savini head explosion and that we like we got in Maniac. But why not?

SPEAKER_00 20:53

I mean it's always fun, but it's not for this film.

SPEAKER_04 20:56

I'm I'm just trying to play Alexis' part here.

SPEAKER_02 20:58

Yeah, the gore lover is absent, so we have to advocate for the gore whenever possible. It's interesting that you bring up the differences in the zombies, Meg, because that's actually one of the things that surprised me most. And it wasn't even just the differences between the design of the 1990 ones versus the 1968 ones, but rather just those humanistic qualities of the original ones, especially since looking at them, they're a little bit more sentient than I think you would expect from some zombies, and their sentience grows and evolves as the dead series goes on. But you see some of them grabbing at handles, you see some of them using tools in some ways, and when I think about other all the other zombie movies that I've seen lately, it's just their mindless craze killing machines. So that was a huge surprise for me. And I think when looking at the remake, the biggest surprise there was what they kept, uh, what they what they tweaked, and then what they brought back. And there are things that they brought back that were originally intended to be in the original film. film and didn't make it. So I think there were some surprises all around and I think this was when looking at both versions, it's one of them that that felt wholesome. That sounds so weird to say because it's like a brutal zombie movie. But it held it felt wholesome in the spirit of continuing the the reputation of the original.

SPEAKER_00 22:21

I agree and I was surprised by the fact that they were able to kind of have that tie back and have it still feel different because I feel like most remakes would either completely trash it or just copy it shot for shot. I have to say though the thing that really surprised me while watching this I can't believe I this is something that slipped my memory was the origin for the zombies explained in the original oh yeah I completely forgot about that too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:46

How could you forget of all people?

SPEAKER_00 22:48

I know that's what makes me feel so sad. It's it seems like something like so small. Like it's in there for kind of a few minutes and it's kind of treated like whatever it doesn't affect us. We just need to survive but I'm sitting here watching this going like what? What when how you know what it is because back then I was very young and didn't hold on to details as well as I do now because I'm all detail oriented and all that junk. But that was that was a big shock for me. It was also kind of shocking to see I mean you could pull a scene out of this movie and turn it into an entire zombie movie now. They copy so many of the good things that you explore in the film and I'm watching them like okay this one argument is an entire season of The Walking Dead.

unknown 23:29

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 23:30

Fast Walking Dead specific they'll turn anything into a season. You sneeze that's a season season 12 I'm glad I'm not watching The Walking Dead.

SPEAKER_06 23:38

But sort of like what you're saying Mac I was really surprised um by how this movie um I guess approached a zombie film because I was expecting it to be like a couple different locations um very action and like zombie heavy um but it really took took more of like a human approach to it in that like we're gonna mostly for the for the duration of the film be in one location and it's gonna be about the people trying to survive as opposed to like killing zombie after zombie and like that's where we're getting the entertainment from it's more from like the human conflict of it all. And of course I was really surprised that a movie from 1968 was carried by a black male lead and a white woman. I was like oh okay uh what's this about so even from the first like 10 minutes I was like okay this was definitely ahead of its time and I can kind of see why it was uh heralded the way it has been one thing I found disappointing though was the character Barbara because obviously this movie has like you know had such cultural impact that uh the quote they're coming to get you Barbara is actually something I've heard and repeated many times.

SPEAKER_02 24:44

And was on our website for a long time.

SPEAKER_06 24:47

See it's like I love the name Barbara and I love that quote because it's just like I had no idea what he was even from. So when I heard it at the beginning of this movie I was like oh this is where that came from and then I was like I'm rooting for you Barbara but then she disappointed me.

SPEAKER_04 25:00

That was regretful. Yeah wrong team to root for my friend she was definitely a disappointment in the first one but aren't women in movies from the 60s always a disappointment honestly I don't think all of them not always but this one I think is an accurate representation of how they viewed and saw women like there's even a point where they're like this it will all be better if we just the three of us work together and it's like there's six of you in that damn house.

SPEAKER_02 25:24

What are you doing? Like you're not even counting the women is helpful. It's the worst.

SPEAKER_06 25:28

I think there was at least one solid female character in the original and we'll talk about that a little bit later.

SPEAKER_02 25:33

I agree with you 100%.

SPEAKER_00 25:34

You know what's so odd about that though is they originally planned for her to be strong and charismatic and instead they liked the actress's portrayal of that kind of terrified young girl that we get on film.

SPEAKER_04 25:46

And I would like to note I feel very strongly that a lot of times this is not Hollywood's fault that are the characters and the female characters are like this from older movies. Probably part of it was stereotyping and writing and stuff but there I there was a lot of actresses acting like this. I hate it I hate it so much. I mean like I'm chaotic as a human but I'm I achieve things okay I'm I'm a successful chaotic person and that's all I'm asking for in women at all ever honestly regardless this has already been said but the zombies in the original were so surprising to me because it it really was just a man walking through a cemetery and then it all kind of changes and it really makes you feel differently about them. Like I didn't see them as monsters so much and you really feel differently like when they're getting killed I feel like and in the remake what I was I have like an equal surprise and disappoint. I was disappointed at how similar the story was and then I was surprised at how dissimilar the story was and it was a nice dichotomy to have gotcha yeah they definitely got me okay but did they get you in terms of being scary I know there were at least a few jump scares in the remake. Nah and honestly I don't know that zombies are that scary and but again this is maybe just because I don't plan to live through one through a zombie. I didn't mean through a zombie. You know what I mean.

SPEAKER_02 27:10

Yeah you're tapping out I get that I mean for me the the remake wasn't scary I think it was entertaining right um I think the zombie design could be a little bit more frightening and I think they tried harder with jump scares to try to get you a few places. Tom Savini is the king of misdirection. There are a couple moments that I think if you watch the original then watch the remake right back immediately afterwards then you're going to be expecting some things and get hit with different things. The original though, Paris you were talking about how they focus on the human element the best zombie content does the best zombie content puts the zombies to the peripheral and focuses on dynamics. The original creates this like a really creepy atmosphere and the zombie effects sure they're not as sophisticated as a remake but the way it's shot makes up for it and with the way it's shot and the way they use their lighting the scariness of the original is that even though hell was breaking out on the outside the real hell was the other people inside the house or really the other person who was throwing everything off. So really that's one of the scariest things is because yeah you could be trapped and uh of course not in a situation like this right in a zombie apocalypse but as we are all have all lived through in a pandemic right you're living through a situation where you're counting on other people to pull their weight and do the right thing and there are people who will consistently fail you and jeopardize your safety and that I think is a frightening thing to accept.

SPEAKER_06 28:33

Yeah Chris that's like the closest thing to fear that I felt during these movies was just like the fear of other people and their uh reaction to a situation um but for the most part I didn't find either of these movies scary. Uh I felt like the zombies were really not threatening um in the original the effects were so minimal on the zombies that I was like that's just an old man walking slowly at me uh not really scared.

SPEAKER_04 28:58

Oh you gonna die.

SPEAKER_06 28:59

Yeah they got a little bit uh scary closer to scaring me in the remake um but still I was like the jump scares didn't quite hit so for me I wasn't scared.

SPEAKER_00 29:10

Of course I wasn't scared but the original does manage to balance those moments of tension and exposition so it kind of keeps things moving nicely and yet provides you that constant fear all along fear for the character's life you know whether it's from the zombies or of course the other humans in the room specifically one human in uh in a room down below but in in the remake you know they are grosser they are more plentiful as well and I think when you get zombies and hordes that's when it starts to get a bit freaky is when you get a lot of them like I'm fine walking past 10 zombies. If I have to walk into like an army of them I'm gonna get a little worried.

SPEAKER_02 29:51

Dude yeah it's action economy anyone who plays DD knows it. One rat is fine. 30 rats is a problem.

SPEAKER_06 29:57

Oh I wish I understood that reference it's like each rat can do one damage but if there's 30 rats that's a lot of damage.

SPEAKER_04 30:03

Paris I love you thank you. To be fair I understand that 30 rats is a problem.

SPEAKER_06 30:08

Any amount of rats is a problem unless it's a pet rat.

SPEAKER_04 30:11

There you go.

SPEAKER_02 30:12

But see I also have the same feeling like looking into a crowd of just regular people like I don't want to do that especially now after COVID post-COVID still in COVID who's no who knows I would agree things aren't like necessarily frightening right but when you look at what these films did right for the the zombie subgenre yeah there wouldn't be any train to Busan without Knight of the Living Dead. And that's yeah so much credit goes to that right like Knight of the Living Dead put mainstream zombie horror movies on the map and everything after it is derivative of it. What really impressed me though was how the remake was able to still pull some punches and effectively modernize it at least in my eyes it's not quite as wildly different as we get with the maniac remake right but I think it it did a good job of keeping things fresh for people who've seen and loved the original.

SPEAKER_06 31:03

Yeah while I was watching this movie and taking my notes I kind of just had to assume that a lot of the zombie tropes we know today came from this movie. And there's a few different segments in the original where you kind of get these like radio bulletins or like TV announcements and they kind of explain what they know about the zombies and sort of like establish the zombie rules. And I was like oh okay so this is probably where it all began um now that it now that you've said the um this was the first film to introduce zombies as like being cannibalistic and like hungry for human flesh I like that that is the direction that we we really clung to with zombies because that's probably the best part of them is the fact that they're gonna eat your whole body and it's gonna be disgusting.

SPEAKER_00 31:44

They so hungry I think that the the original movie I mean 1968 this is really the bridge between like the zombies of you know people's folklore and the zombies that we know and apparently love today. So that's why it's cool that they're kind of human yet they're kind of biting and then we see that progress over the last goodness 40 50 years? What is it since 1970? This is it's been a long time. So we see that progress all the way until the zombies that we think of today but this is really that that bridge between like I am legend level zombies and you know train to Busan.

SPEAKER_02 32:20

Yeah. You know I haven't seen I am legend but I also didn't know that the I am legend novel was not them really turning into zombies like kind of references zombies but they were more like vampires is that consistent with the modern movie?

SPEAKER_00 32:36

No yes okay yeah so in in the modern movie they're kind of vampires they're kind of zombie like in their behavior which I guess is is a good representation of the book but I mean zombies before that time period before we thought of them as flesh eaters were the things that we get now in vampire movies when they're necromanced. So when they bring back like a dead person they become their servant at that point and that used to be what a zombie was and then at a certain point we went from that to the whole I am legend vampire thing and then we went from that to this.

SPEAKER_06 33:11

Correct me if I'm wrong but I've always sort of seen vampires as very like adjacent to zombies like a pretty similar Venn diagram or like on the same family tree they're probably like half siblings.

SPEAKER_02 33:24

One's hungry one's thirsty.

SPEAKER_00 33:25

Remember the Haze Code Paris remember the haze code oh yeah they are really related though because they both come from people's myths and legends about the undead and the sickness that they would bring. So it seems almost like it's like a you know stay away from dead bodies kind of situation because they'll make you sick and then that turns into myth and legend. But for the record vampires are just sexy zombies.

SPEAKER_02 33:49

Sexy capable zombies who can speak and seduce more teeth yeah that's also fair. Uh want to drink blood instead of eat the flesh of their prey.

SPEAKER_04 33:58

Yeah so when you come into a movie like this when you're watching the original it I I'm not gonna be the one to stand here and tell y'all this isn't an original movie. I think that's pretty straightforward like this definitely uh made such a big impact on the horror genre especially with zombies and reanimated bodies and stuff like that. When you go to the remake um I still think it's original which is it's hard when we're talking about a like a a more similar remake um but it you know I have this feeling like the original is like a reference track and the remake just took so much from it and and it really didn't ruin the things that made it great, which is a really hard thing to do with a remake not ruin the good things and then just like built upon it. Like it was the foundation and then just brought it to life in the 90s. Um so I still consider the remake original as well.

SPEAKER_00 34:53

It is like watching a Broadway play where we see it you know one night with one cast and then a couple years later we have a different cast doing it.

SPEAKER_02 35:00

Yeah I totally agree. The point there being right like the original can stand on its own and be head and shoulders above everything else of its time but when a remake can have the gentle touches of the creator present in the film like George Romero was on set for the production of the remake right he produced it he was involved in that movie. And I find when when creators like the icons and the titans right when John Carpenter is evolved involved in a Halloween movie it is much better than those who try to just you know pay honor to him Wes Craven the same can be said said there I know you guys prefer to the hills have eyes remake versus the original. But one thing I'll say that the original still kind of packs a heavy punch on is its ending. We're gonna get to the ending because the ending is one of the most iconic things about this movie. It's one of the most powerful and traumatic things about this movie. You know honestly to this day I'm unsure if I've either blocked the memory of the ending or just hadn't seen it in its entirety. There are even some still photos that play at the credits that just made my stomach churn for some reason. And the remake I find it's like easier to stomach uh it's you know you can't make that same movie again and I wasn't unhappy with the turn of events like I'm glad they went the direction they went but it didn't pack quite the same punch. Like I would look at the events that unfold in the ending of the remake and expect to feel even better about it and I still don't feel as emotionally there as I did in the re in the original.

SPEAKER_04 36:32

Ooh that's interesting so I kind of disagree not I I I can't say I felt the same emotion in the remake ending but I felt much more satisfied and uh I was I was like pretty pleased with at least one part of the ending. You know there's a lot of different elements that come in and I am glad that they didn't go the exact same route because I you know I just think with the way the original was you just can't do it just like you said. With the original I was so sad. My little heart was like no and you know I think that's what you want at the end of a movie like this but man it was just such a bummer and also so realistic.

SPEAKER_02 37:14

Right um like you want it but at what cost do you want it?

SPEAKER_04 37:17

Yeah because it's traumatic. It's a great ending that made me so sad.

SPEAKER_00 37:22

It's only fitting because this is a classic Romero ending. I mean as you watch the other of the dead movies it's that same feeling you get where you have a plan it fails things fall apart and then you get really sad at the very end which is tragic of course but it's like the feeling of a world encased in zombies. That's what's gonna happen is it's never gonna be like happy go lucky I mean it's it's depressive but effective the ending for this sequel I had you know I had a little bit of trouble with you know it didn't feel as meaningful and effective as the first one did it felt kind of like another zombie movie ending to me.

SPEAKER_04 38:01

I agree with that it less like iconic.

SPEAKER_06 38:04

Exactly so for me the ending of the original I saw it coming but only because I've since seen that type of ending in so many other movies. And again I was left wondering like oh is this like the first movie to have like that specific thing as the ending and there's the way there's a way that one of the characters is dealt with in the original that they kind of changed a lot in the remake which disappointed me. So I have some gripes and some moments of joy from both endings but they're sort of opposite each other.

SPEAKER_02 38:34

Yeah I can I can feel that in a very real way. And to be clear like I don't dislike the the ending of the remake it's just it's like having it all isn't as good as getting it all if that makes sense. It's just like oh I didn't feel that like there's a moment in the ending of the re of the original where you know what's about to happen and you're really hoping it doesn't happen but like you feel the suspense building you just don't have that build up I think in the in the remake. You just maybe it's because it's it's made you know in such contrast to the original that it's impossible to like recreate that same atmosphere intention but I don't know we have a lot to discuss because that is going to be a huge talking point I'm sure in the second half of our episode when we can reveal spoilers so let's go ahead and start making our way there. Ryan in Alexis's absence what's our body count?

SPEAKER_04 39:23

So we have uh eight deaths in the original which I feel like is a you know it's not a low number. And then in 1990 we have seven deaths.

SPEAKER_02 39:34

So just for the record uh when we look at zombie movies right like we don't want to necessarily try to tally every single zombie because man could you imagine having to tally the waves of zombies in train du Busan so I think that's a fair number of kills for the for the actual like human beings that you see existing in the movie.

SPEAKER_04 39:52

Yeah and for what it's worth I did make an effort toward counting all of the zombies um but it didn't go well and it went downhill very quickly. I was doing very good and then I was very bad. Um but kind of uh our best guesses for the original is uh 40 zombies so it gives us about 48 deaths overall and then for the remake somewhere around like 22 or so zombies it gives us about 29 deaths overall which is still actually not that high for zombie movies.

SPEAKER_02 40:21

Yeah yeah I mean I think for a localized out in the middle of nowhere zombie movie that's a pretty high number but definitely doesn't compare to like the metropolis zombie movies that we've seen what about that animal report so for the animal report I'm rating it R for not rodent friendly but otherwise we're good to go. Nice love it let's go ahead and get into our ratings then Night of the Living Dead we'll start with the original from 1968 by George A Romero himself. Was it a hack or a slash?

SPEAKER_00 40:50

This movie is iconic establishing a modern horror film genre that I have grown to love and of course many tropes that you all recognize all along the way and it deserves a place in libraries and history books and its place as one of the first films added to the National Film Registry of the Library of Congress it is a slash and there's no way around it.

SPEAKER_06 41:12

Better take than Alien right yeah I I'm here to support that this movie is more deserving of a spot than alien.

SPEAKER_04 41:20

So much energy from McKenzie there.

SPEAKER_00 41:22

I mean look I love space stuff and I enjoy some zombie stuff and this is the zombie stuff right here. Technically also space stuff technically also space stuff exactly this this is zombies from space caused by space.

SPEAKER_02 41:38

It's not Plan Man from outer space though.

SPEAKER_06 41:40

That's true. I'm just gonna get it out real quick. I'm gonna hack this movie uh but it comes with an asterisk I recognize that this movie did so much for the genre it really almost created a genre. I found a lot of it to be charming. I think they did a really good job of telling a lot of background story with limited resources. And there were actually a couple characters that I really like and a few kills that I really enjoyed but overall like this zombie movies just don't do it for me and this is probably uh one of the less successful ones uh as far as getting close to doing it for me. So this gets a hack. Doesn't mean don't watch it. If you're a horror fan watch it just to have the history um but I'm not gonna rewatch this movie.

SPEAKER_04 42:23

I am so glad I get to follow that instead of Max answer. So and here's another hack I haven't really said many bad things. I haven't said I was bored the whole time I haven't said uh that I was bored the whole time I I think this is an iconic movie I think it did incredible things I appreciate so many things about it I appreciate the characters that we got mostly with Ben and how important it was at the time and I'm I'm just I'm not gonna keep going on and like fluffing it up. It's not a movie that I would like to watch again. And therefore I feel as though if I told you it was a slash I'd be lying but also it's a really good movie but it's a really good movie for the 60s. And like in my heart if you're I feel like I'd listen I'd lead our listeners astray if I said it's a slash. You know they'd be like well Ryan this is the kind of trash you want me to watch but it's not trash. I just want to clarify like it's this is a good movie. It's just a good movie from a certain era and unless you are down to do what Mac clearly did which is sit and appreciate this as a an iconic film like you're in a film class, then you might not love it so much if you're just watching it. You know, just on the outside if you're just chilling. Not obsessing over everything it meant to the world because it meant things. But yeah, it it's a hack. Don't fire me.

SPEAKER_06 43:56

Oof I appreciate that Ryan because like I'm with you. Like I we recognize that this is a good movie. Um, but for me, it's not one of my favorites. I won't rewatch it again. It's not a good movie for me. But that's all I can give you, is what I think.

SPEAKER_04 44:12

I feel like almost when we talk about this on social media, we can't call this two hacks and two slashes, because I know that's what's coming. I feel like we need to talk about it as like some of us won't watch this again. What do you think? Because if we call if we're on Twitter saying the original Knight of the Living Dead is a 50% hack, they're gonna be like, what is this trash podcast?

SPEAKER_06 44:36

Listen, I do feel enriched for having watched it. I I'll give it that.

SPEAKER_04 44:39

I feel enriched.

SPEAKER_02 44:41

I am better now, but that's it. So far, we have two hacks from the 1968 version and one slash, and oh boy, am I disappointed that it even has two hacks. This is 100% a slash. Uh, this movie is traumatic, don't get me wrong, but you can't ignore, and by you I mean me. This is like me in the way that I watch movies, the way I appreciate media. This movie is good enough for me to have watched it several times as a kid and to have enjoyed it, to enjoy the spookiness of it, to enjoy even the low budget, independent film nature of it, to look at how they pulled off eating human flesh and made it look realistic in a movie. And then for you to have that kind of movie, and then it hit so differently later in in life, and to have all this weight to it that you just never really saw before, but was there the whole time, and honestly, what a privilege, right? What a what a privileged life you must have to be able to see something like this on screen and then not immediately resonate and think about that as something that happens all the time. This movie paved the way for zombie movies to come after it, so for that, it gets a slash. Now, for the remake, I will say it is not a bad movie. Oh wow, the turntables are spinning. When you have the the greatness of Tony Todd's ability lending to a role, he had some big shoes to fill from Dwayne Jones, right? Like you have the iconic, the original Ben, and to be able to follow up with that performance, that's a daunting task. And I think Tony Todd is the only man for the job. I love the direction that this movie took. I love the differences that it added. The ending and some of the treatments to Barbara in particular, I'm not a huge fan of. Now that's not to say I disliked it, because there are elements about her character that I love and are a vast improvement. There's one particular moment that kind of like threw me off, and then the kind of full spin we get of her character, it was a little bit jarring to me. But it's not enough to keep me from giving it a slash. This is a good movie. It's a worthy successor. And while you can't be the original by any means, you can be a really good modernization of it. So for that, both movies get a slash.

SPEAKER_00 46:52

Chris, thank you. Can I just say that? Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 46:55

You're welcome.

SPEAKER_00 46:56

Because this film is a killer zombie movie. 1990. Killer zombie movie, pun intended. Um, I mean, not quite as good as the original, like you've mentioned, but it's still good. It still deserves a slash. It's nowhere near joke territory, and it's definitely not a waste of time. It did things differently than perhaps I would have preferred, but it's still a great watch. And if you're a fan of zombie films, I think it's it's absolutely fantastic.

SPEAKER_04 47:26

I fully agree. I enjoyed this movie so much, it is quite the slash in my book. I mean, I I would say it's the best zombie movie I've seen. I I really enjoyed this.

SPEAKER_02 47:39

Better than Train to Busan?

SPEAKER_04 47:40

Uh better than Train to Busan. I really enjoyed this. It it took everything about the original that I just the screaming women. Uh, it took it and got rid of it. It to me, this is the original is a layered cake, a little bit of buttercream in between each layer, you know, nice round layers going up, maybe a five-layer cake, maybe even a layered red velvet.

SPEAKER_06 48:06

We love a food metaphor.

SPEAKER_04 48:08

Yeah. So uh you slap some icing on the outside, but it's just like there. Like it's just a cake with some icing on it.

SPEAKER_02 48:16

Is it the Father's Day cake from Creep Shop?

SPEAKER_04 48:19

Fortunately, not that, but the remake is when you take a nice icing knife and smooth the outside, right? And they add some decorations, you know, some very classy, you know, you get a very modern stacked red velvet delicious cake out of this. So the first one's cake. Everybody likes cake. Cool. This one is like an incredible cake you pay thousands of dollars for. It's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 48:44

Do people pay thousands of dollars for cakes? Is that a thing?

SPEAKER_01 48:47

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 48:47

Yeah. Oh god. Somewhere on TV, they played lots of money. Not like hundreds, maybe. Wow. Good for them. I don't know. I just made up the number. Don't don't call me out. It just took everything that I wanted and and and fixed it and changed it. And I will say there was a point where I was like, man, this is so similar. I'm over it. And then right when I felt that way, it changed. And you know, I think there's there's plenty to love from both, and you don't really have to choose one. You can love both of these. But I really like the the remake here.

SPEAKER_02 49:20

You can love both, but Ryan only loves one.

SPEAKER_04 49:23

I actually love both. I'm just never gonna watch the original again.

SPEAKER_00 49:27

Can I jump onto your cake analogy? Because I love cake so much. To to borrow that for a moment. I feel like the original is more like a hummingbird cake that your mamma made, and you just really love it when she makes it, and only she makes it like that, right? But then the remake.

SPEAKER_02 49:42

There's that Georgia coming out.

SPEAKER_00 49:43

There's that Georgia coming out. Your your your mamma. So uh Mima, uh for other Southerners as well. Mine's Mimi. It's Mimi. There you go. It's your Mimi's cake, and it's that delicious Southern hummingbird cake. And then the 1990 is like a cool, trendy hipster who's now making old-fashioned cakes, has made it for a new generation, and like you mentioned, people are paying thousands of dollars for it.

SPEAKER_04 50:04

I I feel like you were a little bit shady in your comparison there, and so I'm not sure that I agreed. But also, I'd like to say sometimes only your grandmother makes things the way she makes them because sometimes they're not good.

SPEAKER_06 50:15

Uh so I hacked the original because I am nothing if not a stupid bitch with no reverence for the past whatsoever. So I really thought that the the 1990 version had a much better shot of uh doing it for me. Um and for the most part it really did. I'm actually surprised that Chris and Mac both preferred the original because I thought the remake was just a marked improvement overall in almost every category.

SPEAKER_04 50:38

You gotta understand who they are. They're all about the the the depth.

SPEAKER_06 50:42

Yeah, and the context. And the and they have a reverence for the past, which is something I find admirable. But Oh God bless. Don't hate me. I'm also gonna hack this one. I will agree with Ryan, though, this is probably one of the best zombie movies that I've ever seen. Um, Tony Todd is incredible. Uh, I really love the changes that they made to Barbara. There were a few times that I laughed, even though I'm not sure I was supposed to. But towards the end, it really started dropping the ball for me in a few ways that I was pretty upset by. Um, I'll say right now, one of my favorite deaths was actually in the original, and the way it was handled in the remake felt totally botched. Um so ultimately, while this is a good zombie movie, if you are like me and you don't care for zombie movies, you can miss out on this one.

SPEAKER_04 51:29

This is actually your last episode. I don't know if I told you that.

SPEAKER_01 51:32

I'm fully being canceled right now. I can feel it everywhere. There's no cancellation, you just don't get a slice of that hummingbird cake. That's all's gonna be upset.

SPEAKER_04 51:40

Or the really nice red velvet cake, evidently.

SPEAKER_06 51:42

See, but to use that cake analogy, I love cake, but I don't love red velvet cake.

SPEAKER_04 51:47

Yeah, you're definitely done.

SPEAKER_02 51:50

Well, this is taking a turn in a direction that is uh not as positive as I had hoped it would be. Here we are, folks. Uh the original Nine of the Living Dead, the iconic film that puts zombie movies in the mainstream on the map, has earned two hacks and two slashes, but at least I have Mac on my side. The 1990 version did do a little bit better, but it's still made out with just one hack. Now, you can find the original on Tubi, alright? So you can watch it there. They have the black and white and the colorized version as well, but the remake you can actually find streaming on Showtime. So check it out. Compare, contrast, join us for the second half because whew, we got some stuff to talk about. We'll see you in a bit.

SPEAKER_00 52:34

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SPEAKER_02 53:04

Welcome back, folks. You are now entering the spoiler zone for Knight of the Living Dead. The 1968 version earned split reviews from our folks, with two hacks and two slashes. While the 1990 version earned three slashes and did a little bit better, Paris didn't like that one either, so it still got at least one hack. We have a lot to talk about here, we have a lot to dig into, but before we get into the specifics of all that, we have to figure out what's going on with the gore in a zombie movie. So, Ryan, would you do the honors?

SPEAKER_04 53:31

First off, may I just say Alexis deserves all the credit. Okay, we got a feel like we just we just expect her to do the gore score every week, and it is not an easy feat, especially two zombie movies. So let's talk about the original. I feel like for the time, it is not the least gory movie I've ever seen. We had some scenes like with some uh some really up-close gunshots that were just like uh my my feeling about the gore in the original was just that it was very like realistic. Like we didn't get like movie quality bloodiness and stuff like that. Gunshots, I think, was like the biggest thing. We didn't get like heads chopped off, stuff like that. And then one of the scenes that like that I think adds to the gore in this movie, and it's it's not like direct in your face, but you know what's going on, and it's when the zombies are eating out of the truck that was blown up. Yeah. They were like animals. It was like this disgusting feeling, and and it it it's weird because I've seen all the seasons of The Walking Dead, so I've seen lots of zombies eat brains and stuff, but it it felt like the first time I'd seen zombies. Like, like they made this thing happen in the movie where it's like, oh snap, we all are just now learning that they're eating the dead people and or the people that are dying and stuff like that. Yeah, it was a it was a it was a moment, it was disgusting.

SPEAKER_02 54:53

Oh, for sure. Are you familiar with the how they achieved that effect?

SPEAKER_04 54:56

Oh no, please tell me. I want to learn all the things.

SPEAKER_02 54:59

They took some roasted meat and smothered it in chocolate sauce to give the effect of blood. Ooh.

SPEAKER_00 55:06

Which is rather unfortunate. Sounds gross. Sounds disgusting.

SPEAKER_02 55:09

So it was just yeah.

SPEAKER_04 55:11

So then we had a few other moments like Karen eating her dad's brains. Like those it's a it's again, it just felt so like fresh and new in those times. And uh my favorite kill for that movie is definitely Karen killing Helen with the spade. Oof. It was beautiful in like the worst way, you know? Some like some of the sound design got a little bit strange there. It kind of like got like squealy and stuff like that, which I didn't really care for, but that kill and then her coming back was just like the icing on the cake for me. It was beautiful. It was what what took this movie to the place where I almost slashed it.

SPEAKER_02 55:52

Ooh, yeah, those those um squealy bits from Helen, I actually really enjoyed it. It was like the stuff of nightmares. It was haunting. Ooh.

SPEAKER_04 55:59

Yeah, I did not like, but I can understand that. What were your favorite kills from the original movie?

SPEAKER_06 56:04

I have to second the notion that Helen's kill was the best in the original, and it's probably a it's probably a popular pick. Um, but I also just really enjoyed Helen as a character. I feel like of the women, she was my kind of girl. And also I watched this movie on like a Saturday morning with my boyfriend. It was like raining, we were cuddled up on the couch, and I was just like, who doesn't love like a little Saturday morning mattresside?

SPEAKER_04 56:25

But my only beef with her as a character is that she married the man that she married. So, like, is she your kind of woman?

SPEAKER_00 56:31

And now we said it. You know, Helen was fun. I think she was kind of a whole mood and everything, uh, going through that film. Loved what she wore. But Harry's death for me was so like oddly satisfying. I mean, he he was just like just confronted for being so weak-willed and betraying Ben and kind of betraying everyone in that moment. And then to be followed up, you know, he gets shot. So to be followed up then by his daughter gnawing on him, like a most excellent choice, have to say.

SPEAKER_02 56:58

Yeah. So my first place was Helen Cooper, my second place was Harry Cooper. Let's go to third runner up here, which is Tom and Judy in the tragedy of the burning truck. That was so sad. So sad, but so good. Like just yeah, just a flame burning. And it's so sad because first off, like Judy is reckless. We'll get to the characters later. Judy was reckless, but Tom went back for her and he could have easily escaped, and like they would both be alive at least a little bit longer in the movie, had she not run out to that truck and gotten her her coat caught in all the chaos. And I don't know, it's one of those that you didn't want to see any of them except for maybe one person die.

SPEAKER_06 57:40

I have to say that I did not really care about that kill whatsoever. Um, and actually, so our girl Barbara spends most of the first act in a Burberry trench coat, and at one point you see Judy pick it up, and then later when she's in the truck and she says her coat is stuck, and I'm like, she stole that Burberry coat. So it wasn't like really emotional for me, but it was pretty fun.

SPEAKER_00 58:01

That was my favorite kill from the remake, Tom and Judy Rose. I mean, they still get blown up like in the original, but it was so much fun to watch them take that whole shooting at the gas thing and put it on them this time and have it end in a decent consequence because Ben shooting at the first time, you're like, oh, he's shooting the lock. I get it, but also you're shooting at a gas pump, dude. Like any other film, that would not work well. So I'm glad they kept it, except landed them in explosion territory, getting them into that whole like barbecue section even faster.

SPEAKER_02 58:34

It's also crazy that shooting the gas pump wasn't the initial bad consequence. And if there wasn't a flame in the back, like there are a lot of layers there that are still a little bit problematic, but I feel that.

SPEAKER_04 58:45

But also totally seems like something that that character would do.

SPEAKER_01 58:48

Oh, yeah. You know what I mean? Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 58:50

Like Ben's back there, like, what are you doing? It didn't even occur to him not to shoot at a gas pump, like not a good idea. Yeah. So talking about your favorite kill, let's talk about some of the gore in the remake. I feel like it didn't go over the top with remake gore, because you know that can happen a lot. Um, so I mean, I think obviously right away you get more gore. You get a lot more gore from the zombies. Like, um, also side note, we have there's a lot of random butts, zombie butts in this movie in both of these movies.

SPEAKER_06 59:21

Yeah, I felt like they had a zombie butt quota to fill.

SPEAKER_04 59:23

How shitty must it have been to have been that one naked zombie? Yeah. And then in the remake, we got two zombie butts, which took me so long to understand that it's because he was uh he was in a coffin and like they put an outfit on from the front only, so it's like a seam down the back. But I was like, Yeah, what is this tuxedo hospital gown situation? It's like when you get half dressed for a zoom meeting. Yeah, uh not wrong, honestly. Did you do a separate zombie butt count? Yes, the zombie butt count was one for the original and two for the remake. And four cheeks. Two butts, four cheeks.

SPEAKER_02 59:54

Excellent, thanks.

SPEAKER_04 59:56

Yeah, no half cheeks. We're we only take the best. So the remake, like I said, the the gore went up, um, but it didn't go too far. I think the biggest gore moment for me in the remake were the zombies like just around, like sitting at the tree eating. It was disgusting. And I they were eating like a worm or something and then a rat. It was like, it like turned my stomach. Like I couldn't, like, I don't it just felt so chill and like real, like like this was just flesh. It was absolutely disgusting. I couldn't handle it.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:34

What about the moment where the other zombie gets jealous? Like he's watching him heat this poor little rodent, and he's looking at him like, I want that.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:42

Yeah, I thought they were gonna pull a lady in the tramp moment.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:45

No, that's what happened to the hand instead.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:48

That would have been absolutely horrible. So I consider the remake like a medium level of gore. If you're super sensitive, like for a zombie movie, it's pretty low. But generally speaking, I feel like it's kind of mid-range. Um, we get lots of wounds, like cutoff arms, uh, lots of uh shot wounds, stuff like that. So, like, if you're even a little sensitive, it's probably a little too much for you. But if you're like, you know, I watch horror movies, I'm cool with some gore. This isn't gonna be anything to push over the top. We're not even close to terrifier. I feel like, you know, solid four or five range if we were given it a number. And I something that I thought was like really interesting that I guess applies to both movies, but really stood out in this one to me is that um most of these deaths are not by zombies. We only get like two zombie kills, three, something like that. Like less than half of them are from zombies. It's just people killing people. It's the chaos of humanity.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:42

To go off your gore score for a moment, I feel like the new gore score like rating system should be based off of like salsa. You know, we should start out with mild get up to medium, get up to spicy.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:54

But that something about salsa and gore is absolutely disgusting.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:57

Yeah, it's even more fitting. That's why it works.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:59

Obviously, Harry's kill was my favorite in the remake. It was I just hate him, and I hated him even more with his like Rambo style. He was just this sleazy, sweaty man that I hated every bit of his character, and then when he got the shotgun, he's just like ringing off shots, missing everything, and it was just all just all of it. I hated it. So I was very happy to see Harry with a shot in the middle of his head. Um, how about you guys? Where are you guys at on this one?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:30

Oh, uh, so Harry was again uh my number one who's also taken, but Johnny was an improved death for me from the original. I feel like the he was concussed at best in the original. Turned out he died. You know, he's the one who snatches Barbara out of the window. But in this one, you see the way his head smashes against the gravestone and his neck bends in, and it's not that gory, right? There's not a lot of blood and chaos there, but damn if it doesn't look painful.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:58

Yeah, them stones, them gravestones are hard, and those dummies hit it very hard.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:03

So you guys took both of mine. Um, but I'm gonna switch it up a little bit and talk about my least favorite kill, uh, because it's the Helen kill again. Um and honestly, like this movie for me was a very soft hack. I did enjoy a lot of it, um, but ultimately it wasn't enough to be a slash. But the biggest offense for me was how they handled that Helen kill because I thought in the original, the Helen kill with the daughter just stabbing her mom at least a dozen times with that little spade. I thought that was just so satisfying. It was probably the peak for the gore in the original, in my mind. Um, but then we just kind of get this like first off, Helen is like a much weaker woman in the remake, and the death is so it feels like a throwaway. And I was just like, why would you do that to my favorite scene in this movie when you were doing a great job of like improving upon the original? So that was a real thorn in my side.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:59

May I add a counter to that?

SPEAKER_06 1:04:01

Yes, please.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:02

Because I love the original, and while Helen certainly isn't as strong-willed as she is in the original, I think she still had like her bit of uh strength in the remake. I think Barbara made such a drastic turn that she can't be what she was in the original because she needs to balance things out a little bit and kind of swap places. But I actually like the way they approached the death. I do agree that it felt like a throwaway, but I love the blood splatter against the spade. As if to say, no, we do remember how this happened. It was an iconic death. We had to take a different turn. Uh it would be a it'd be failure to try to recreate that greatness.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:42

I felt like the little blood on the spade was a slap in the face. I was like, no, you knew what you did. And then also just like watching the daughter's like weird mouth unhinge. I was like, Are you a child or are you 17 years old because your head is bigger than your mom?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:55

Uh, you know, pennywise.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:56

Yeah, very pennywise. To go back to the Harry Kill from the remake, that ended up the the scene leading up to that ended up becoming like my favorite scene from the remake. Because he thinks he's so special during the entire film. And in his mind, he's worth coming back for. And he's like, Oh, thank you. I can't believe you came back for me. Such a turd. And he was such a turd, and then like to end it that way, of course, was very satisfying. That moment really sums up who he thinks he is and how important he is.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:29

If she didn't pull the gun out and kill him in that moment, I was gonna lose it. I could feel it. I was like, Oh no, no, no, no, no, don't you do that to me. And then she pulls it on. I'm like, Yes. He was just disgusting.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:42

I love that. That was a it was a satisfying moment for sure. I did stop and wonder after my own feeling my own satisfaction of that moment. What does it say about me that I felt so horrible when the last human standing was killed in the original? Only for the last human standing. To be killed by another human, this time knowingly, this time without the thin veil of it's probably a zombie walking slowly in a house from a distance. But you know what? Fuck it. He was such a piece of shit that it doesn't matter. It says that we're really in a horror movie. Yeah, there you go. That's what it says about you. It's it's interesting. Looking at the the scene for me in the remake that did it was such a small moment, but it was shot so beautifully. It was the moment that Barbara staring off into the distance, and then it's framed perfectly with her on the left side of the screen, and you see the door to the cellar opening up in the background. Absolutely love that. I love some depth in a shot, so that was a huge one for me. But the original, it was also for me a very he Harry-centered moment. It was when Ben burst back into the house, saw Harry Cooper being a damn coward at the cellar door, realizing that he didn't let him in, and just stared at him for a moment. The look in Dwayne Jones' eyes said everything you needed to know about the ass whooping that he was gonna get once the immediate problem at hand was dealt with, and I lived for that moment.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:09

So similarly for me, one my favorite scenes throughout the original were Ben whooping, but my man's was just out here smacking everybody. Okay. I mean, I think it was only two people, but it felt like everybody. And it it just, you know, it just gave like his character the strength and like generally, you know, don't slap women. It was a tussle. I'm not saying I support it, but I enjoyed that character that he played, and then him being physical and not just letting all these dumb people run around and make stupid decisions. In the remake for me, my favorite scene is Barbara finding the house and coming in, um, seeing the hand and then the big zombie falling from the top and like almost hitting her. Yeah, and it was like it was predictable in a way, but still felt fresh and like not like something I've seen a million times. And like I just enjoyed that whole thing, and because I was just waiting to see how it was gonna unfold because I just, you know, didn't know how similar we'd be. And so all of that, that her just her whole discovery of the house, and she was so stressed. And like I complained about Barbara in the first one, but in the second one, I was like, you know, she's a a reasonable amount of stress right now, and like in a reasonable shocked state. And like I I feel like I'd probably find myself somewhere similar for at least a bit.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:29

I'd maybe only take one shake to get out of it, but she also came out of it, so uh, right after your favorite scene in the remake, Ryan, came my favorite scene in the remake. Ooh. Yeah, so I I've already kind of said in horror, zombies don't really do it for me, but in like a comedy context, zombies can oftentimes do it for me. So there's a moment where there's kind of just like a lull in between action, and Barbara has the fire poker, and she's just kind of like poking that disembodied hand, just like back towards uh one of the bodies, just to kind of keep them together. And yeah, the audio that they used was so good. It was just like a chicken cutlet like slapping around on the floor. And I thought that was just like a great moment to kind of break up the more serious tone of the film. But uh in the original, I gotta give my favorite scene just to the opening because I really did have like some hope for this movie after that scene. Um, just hearing that line that I've heard so many times, they're coming for you, Barbara. And then putting it like a face and a context to it was really enjoyable for me. And also just like these two siblings, like really kind of annoyed that they have to go visit a dead relative all the way out in the middle of nowhere.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:37

The worst brother, like literally the worst brother that's ever been.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:41

I don't know. I thought he was kind of fun.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:44

I think what was interesting is that he's just very different and well developed, even in that little moment that you get him. Like he's super logical, not spiritual, nostalgic for the memories he used to have with Barbara, but also is very practical and doesn't see the need in waiting cast, time, or money uh to go drive a few hours away to a cemetery.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:02

Yeah. So people love talking trash about somebody once they've died. Like, of course, she would make us drive all the way up here. Like, you wouldn't say that's her face.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:10

And actually, you're about to get a chance to. Yeah, I thought he was shittier in the remake than he was in the original.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:15

Paris, you picked my favorite. You know, that moment of foreshadowing was so good. And it's creepy on its own, but it's kind of hilarious to consider like what immediately follows.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:28

Like it's not like, okay, this is the first scene, and then like a couple scenes later. It's like in this scene, a zombie shows up right after you were egging your sister on. What a jerk. He didn't know. He didn't know, you know, that's fine. But if I had to pick another one, I gotta say it's Helen berating Harry when we first meet her. Like, so on point, so satisfying. And I love that she says that line we may not enjoy living together, but dying together isn't gonna solve anything. Yes. Helen had so many good lines for Harry.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:55

I love that, Mac. I had that one written down. There's also the um, that's important, isn't it? Everyone being wrong and you being right, things like that. May I just add a couple other quotes that I thought were just stellar in this movie?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:06

Ooh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:07

The original, Ben, saying, If you're stupid enough to die in that trap, that's your business. However, I am not stupid enough to follow you. It is tough for the kid that her old man is so stupid. Like, damn hair, damn Ben, you're coming for him.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:21

His his quotes were so on point.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:23

My last one is something that I feel even from 1968 deserve uh describes 2020 so well. It comes from the newscaster. It's hard for us to believe what we're reporting to you, but it does seem to be a fact.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:36

Okay, I'm gonna add right on to that. This comes from uh maybe a different segment of the news, but still comes from the news. They're interviewing um one of the scientist guys, and he's like, Um, so what do you think? And they're like, Oh, we're just gonna wrap this up within the next 24 hours. It's just like, yeah, sure. And that's exactly what we all thought when COVID was gonna be, uh, two weeks of staying home.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:58

You're killing, they're like, we killed 18 of them. And I'm like, You are not even close. You don't have any idea.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:04

You you think you're gonna wrap this up in 24 hours? They already said it's also happening in uh other Midwestern cities and Miami at this point.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:13

It's gonna take you at least 10 seasons. We know that.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:16

Ferris, earlier you're talking about that opening scene that you get from the cemetery, and I gotta say that it's it's one of those that I feel creates so much great atmosphere, right? The cemetery feels very chilling, even though they just seem to be casually visiting there on a nice Sunday morning or Sunday afternoon. But the technical feats of the original can't be understated here because it was able to achieve so much on a low budget. So the use of lighting was masterful. And I'm thinking, Paris, specifically about when Barbara runs into the house for the first time and you have all these shadows breaking up the entire house, and then you have that body, that corpse up at the beginning that's mostly hidden in shadow. And then you get that first shot when she sees Ben and the headlights for the first time. The way they used lighting was so powerful, even when the lighting went out, it was still lit well enough to feel believable and feel like you're plunged into that darkness with them.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:12

I just want to share like a small counterpoint to that. Um, I was actually expecting the lighting to be really fantastic because the past couple months we've reviewed some older movies with excellent use of lighting. Um, and while I think the lighting that they chose to use was effective, technically it actually wasn't too great from what I saw because there were a lot of areas where there was like no detail whatsoever in like huge chunks of shadow. And then there were parts that were just like the lighting was too like contrasted to really give you the richness and tones that you would want to see in a scene like that. Um, so I was actually I wrote that down. I was like kind of bummed that the lighting was like a little sloppy.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:48

See, I think you're like looking at it and looking for things like the small details that we see in like the 80s that we've you know, the movies we've been watching recently. I think the greatness that comes with this movie is the overall lighting. So it's not like headlights or something. It's like the contrast is like listen, you didn't see House of Wax from 1953, but it was the worst lighting. Everything was lit by candle, it was miserable. And this this gave you light where you needed it, and then use the shadows to hide what wouldn't be relevant detail. And like it's it's almost like it like focused you in. Um, I'm just here to stand with Chris on this and say that the technical things that they achieved, not just lighting, not I'm not listen, I'm not no lighting expert, but I enjoy the lighting, but like the practical effects and everything from this, like I I know I already mentioned it. I cannot state enough. It's so much better than things I've seen that were 10 and 20 years later than this. And I want to understand why everything else is so bad.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:57

I will say, uh, just to to back up one small point of Paris' point there, the one offender for me was the Scooby-Doo shadows cast in the living room when obviously there's a lot of like set lighting there, and it's just these large heaping shadows behind Harry and stuff. Like, that's like uh photography 101. Don't fucking have Scooby-Doo shadows. But aside from that, I was super pleased and really loved.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:21

I felt that their use of the lighting was was pretty good. I just love the black and white look. You know, I'm I'm kind of glad I didn't go back and try to watch this in the colorized version because it kind of makes it seem more nightmarish watching it in black and white. Because I think a lot of our dreams are very, you know, obviously they're very surreal. My dreams are in color. Some people dream in black and white. Uh, I don't know the difference, but I do know that it definitely makes it feel more like a nightmare. It makes it seem more surreal watching it, you know, at least how many years later. So I don't know the technical details of how well they did, but I do appreciate that feeling of it feeling like a nightmare. Like while watching this, if I were in those shadows that we don't get a lot of detail in, I would be losing my crap. I would be searching for a flashlight. If somebody asked me to go outside, not gonna happen because I, you know, you just can't see, and there's gonna be zombies in there.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:17

Two things. One, when they were like, Oh, the power is out, I was like, Oh, I figured the power had been out, and this was just I was just supposed to believe I could see you because it's a movie. Two, to agree with what you're saying, Mac, it almost gives it this like Twilight Zone vibe, like definitely that like dreamy, like what is going on? And then when they start talking about Saturn or Uranus or whatever planet it was, it just added to it.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:43

Talking about dreaminess, do you think Phantasm would have been better and black and white would have been easier to buy?

SPEAKER_04 1:16:49

I think so.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:50

Because it's already got that like unreal goofiness to it almost, like one more element of separation.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:57

We would you would miss out though on on like the bold color choices they made in some of those scenes. Maybe some people don't like, you know, we don't like yellow blood and all that stuff, or the bright red human blood that they chose to use. But I think this one it kind of works for. I'm glad we didn't get to see the fake blood, you know, in this film.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:14

Yeah, and that probably adds to what looks good, like as the practical effects, as far as the practical effects go.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:20

I mean, I'll admit that I enjoyed the ambiance created by the lighting, but if it's in the Library of Congress, I just need some detail in those shadows.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:29

Okay, I'm sure you can uh tell George Romero that to his grave. You can go visit him on a Sunday morning and see if uh anyone comes back from the dead. Not recommended. But looking at the remake, I think those zombie designs were pretty great, right? And especially the autopsy zombie, which was an addition to the original film that wasn't originally scripted. Um earlier I mentioned, and I love to just share this with you guys because I was nerding out about this a little bit. I mentioned earlier about how Tom Zavini was originally lined up to do the effects, but then was drafted to the Vietnam War, yeah. So he ended up being a combat photographer, so he was in combat camera. And that's something that when I was in the Navy going up as a mass communications specialist, that was a billet you could try to be, like you could try to go be combat camera. And I was like, fuck no, I would never do it. Um, because there's already like this separation you have, like you had to remove yourself from things that you see. Um, even in the scope of my of my roles in the ship, right? You had to photograph for historical documentation and investigation, not for any public release, but you had to investigate any deaths that happened at the sea, you had to photograph any suicides that happened aboard the ship, things of that nature. So you still see some like horrowing things that I know I personally had to like learn how to like compartmentalize. But I want to read you this this quote that he had. And he said this in an interview, and it just like shook me. I was seeing this horrible stuff through my camera lens, and the camera lens to me was a separation between me and this horribly anatomically correct gore that I was seeing. Real stuff. I had to click off my emotions in Vietnam as a combat photographer to not go nuts. Well, when I came back, those emotions were still turned off. I was a zombie. Coming back from Vietnam, I was an emotionless person walking around. Seeing that stuff affected how I was to create makeup effects from that point on. To me, if the stuff I did I created didn't give me the same feeling that I got from seeing the real stuff in Vietnam, it wasn't real enough to me. Something happens to the face in death, and then he go on to describe like how people's like some people die with a smile, some people like their their jaw slacks down and their eyes opening being open or closed. And he said that affects how he watches death in movies, and it is unreal to now go back and look at each zombie in this movie and to know the work that he did with like Dawn of the Dead, and just to see this from that different perspective. I think he brought a lot of richness to the design of that in this remake.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:56

I fully agree. Like you can't really say anything that would be overstating how great the zombies are in the remake and how not over the top they are, how they're not the Walking Dead. Because in in The Walking Dead you get numb to it, and here it's just every single zombie has its own disgusting character.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:19

He he truly did some amazing work on this film. So in the remake, I kind of miss the black and white from the original, and I'm not alone. He originally wanted to start out in black and white and then slowly add color to kind of tie back, which I think would have been cool. I don't know if it would have been received as well, uh, but you could tell that he was like truly thinking about all those small details, and that really led itself to my favorite thing about the remake, watching it, not just you know, characters and story and stuff, but like it felt so lived in in every scene. So from the cemetery to the house to the zombie hunter camp, the set was absolutely solid. So you get this great set, you get these amazing looking zombies, and of course, beautiful effects. It was so nice to look at.

SPEAKER_06 1:21:09

I gotta say, visually for me, um, our girl Barb came through towards the end. Uh, because the whole time she's kind of pointing out to everybody, she's like, they're moving really slowly. I'm pretty sure we can just kind of walk out there and be fine. And then later in the end of the movie, she ends up doing that. Um, and she kind of gets to a point where, yeah, they're all kind of surrounding her, but she knows she's fine, and she kind of lets out this like scream of like frustration and just like annoyance. And then this like blonde woman zombie gets really close to her in between the camera and Barbara, and she blows the woman's brains out in the direction of the camera, and just the way the effects of the woman's hair kind of like muffling the brains splattering out, I felt like that was just really artfully done. Um, it felt like a very realistic uh view of what that would look like if you saw the back of someone's head as they were being shot in the face.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:02

I think it does make me think about you know, that quote you gave us from from Tom Savini, because going back and thinking about what we saw in the movie, there's so much more emotion tied to it than I would have realized. Like when she has that moment with that woman where she sees what this human has become and how hard it is for her to deal with it, like that's real human life right there. And you can tell that he's like experienced that feeling before. And so just you don't you just don't think about it the same having realized that that he's felt this way looking at another human and and where they've gone. And that was that was actually a really great moment for Barbara, Paris that you bring up, because she's sitting there, you know, and she's like dealing with the reality, not the reality that people are trying to bite her, but the reality of like what's happening to humankind.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:49

Yeah, it's it's funny that you bring up this particular moment because I do agree it is an incredible moment emotionally. I think that emotional release is so important. It gave me a chuckle because I could not unsee. Does anyone watch Archer?

SPEAKER_06 1:23:03

I've seen a few episodes.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:05

So there's a a redheaded character named Cheryl. In one of the seasons, they're like all in space, and she's like really good at killing. Like, that's like the joke is that she's incompetent with anything, and then she just kind of swoops in and saves the day. But she will just like scream and then like start killing things. It just reminded me of that exact moment, and I couldn't unsee that. And like I think it it diminished my view of that. I think if I hadn't seen Archer, it wouldn't have ruined it at all. But talking about Barbara, my complaint, my gripe.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:36

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:36

It's okay. Let me get this out of the way because I'd I'd want to make clear that I love the direction they took Barbara. Being a having a more active role, having a strong, outspoken role, all here for it, right? Barbara in the original, I get it, like she's in shock. She retreats into her own mind, but honestly, after Ben asks her to go around the house and help find wood, she did nothing but wander around. She didn't find any wood, and then she just wandered back into the room and like barely touched the door while he's nailing it up.

SPEAKER_06 1:24:05

She found that pile of small little logs and then saw that he had pulled out a whole door and just kind of like dropped them and was like, Oh, I guess I didn't find shit.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:12

Yeah, basically. So it kind of creates this contrast with the remakes, Barbara, who I adored, but I have this like one weird small comical complaint that led to a bigger issue for me. And that is she she takes a moment to slip into something a little bit more comfortable, right? She she changes her pants. But if this is Uncle Reg's house, how are there one pants that will manage to not look ridiculous on her, and two boots that are small enough for her to not stumble in? I realize I'm asking too many questions, it's movie logic because they just want her to be an action hero. And I don't like that. I don't think she needs to be a crazed action hero who's like a perfect shot, headshot, anything. I feel like they were so good at keeping her realistic with like her her drive for survival and like her partnership with Ben. And then she just took a hard turn into Sarah Connor, and I was not a fan of it.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:03

Yeah, I see where you're coming from there. I'm surprised that that annoyed you because that is very much like a Ryan thing to pick out and like harp on. I'm very surprised.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:13

That was the worst part for me. I just couldn't do it. Interesting.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:16

I I get it. Um, she did have a lot of nuance, and I will say that like towards the end, and I noticed it when she's like walking out of the house, like walking through the zombies, and she's got the bullets across her chest, and I'm just like, Oh, this is every zombie person uh like hunter ever. Like, I'm in a tank top and some cargo pants and some boots, and I have some ammo.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:38

Yeah, we're 12 hours into that shit. That's like six months into it kind of behavior. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:44

Like, what what are those bullets for? They don't go to the gun that she had in her hand.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:47

It's not lining up with the zombie apocalypse timeline, like she's inconsistent with the timeline.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:52

Yeah, so I'm I'm not mad at you for that.

SPEAKER_06 1:25:54

Yeah, I feel that. Obviously, Barbara in the remake was uh leaps and bounds better than the hysterical in the worst kind of way, Barbara, that we got from the original. Um, but I feel like they did kind of err a little far on the side of like Mary Sue treatment for her, and I think they could have just pulled it back in because I think the actress didn't require that because she was giving a great performance.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:14

So I'd like to share. Um, since I gave the original a hack, I'm gonna give a a best part about it, but I also have a worse part because I feel like I really haven't said anything that is like the things that really got on my nerves.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:27

That justifies your hacking of this movie, however firm or soft it is.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:31

Yeah. And I mean, I just want to clarify, it's only a hack because it's not a slash. Whatever that means in the world. But anyway, so here's something that really bothered me. And and maybe it's silly, whatever. The amount of watching TV on TV that we did during the original, it just really threw me. Like, I understand they really needed to insert the the explanation and stuff like that, but there was just so much like interview, and everyone on TV was just like fine. Like, like no one was attacking them. This was only happening in the country. I don't know. It was it was just too much. That was something that that really turned me off is I just kept hearing like all these interviews, and then I was just like, okay, like I'm over this. So, and I felt like they really improved the way those story elements came in in the in the remake. So that that's another one of those things that got a lot better for me. Um, the best part of the original movie is absolutely Ben. Everything about him, he's not a perfect character, but the character that he plays is incredible. Um the relationships that he has with everyone else, like they're all very specific, very nuanced. He treats them all, you know, very specifically based on how they've interacted. He's not just like, hey, I'm just rude to everyone, or hey, I'm just like nice to everyone. Like he's very intentional. He doesn't let everyone make dumb decisions. And he makes a bunch of smart decisions. And that's why it was so sad when he when he got shot at the end. But uh I gotta I gotta stand for our guy, Ben, in the original.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:10

Ben is truly an amazing character, and he wouldn't have been that character. Like I mentioned earlier, Dwayne Jones was so responsible for what we got to see on screen because they originally had him written very differently. He was gonna be that angry everyman truck driver, you know, just like trying to survive or whatever, and like be. I don't want to see that that, you know, that Ben, that angry Ben. That wouldn't be cool at all. And when he was given that role, he had some concerns because he had some anger, like the scene where he hits Barbara. So he didn't want to be perceived in a certain way. I mean, it's 1968, right? And you don't want to see in 1968 as white America an angry black man hitting people, especially a white woman. So, I mean, there's all these racial tensions going on in the late 60s, as we know. And this film came out right after the assassination of MLK. So this is a crazy kind of setup. And so he was really thoughtful about what he put into his character. So they kind of took his considerations into play and decided against it. In some cases, Romero kind of regretted some of that later on, realizing that, of course, that he was correct. Maybe he shouldn't have slapped Barbara across the face, which is, you know, probably correct.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:28

To be fair, then he also is trying to protect her. Later, like like it's that's what makes it so great is the nuance. The I got annoyed and I'm sick of you, and you're being ridiculous, and I don't know who you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:39

I think that was just like the way generally in the 50s, 60s, that's how hysterical women were to be handled. Yeah. It happens in so many movies and it's frustrating, and I'm so glad we are we have moved beyond it. Um, but it's still something really important for him to consider.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:55

One of the other actors, I think uh Harry's actor, actually said, uh, you know, I I as I recall, I believe that Dwayne himself upgraded his own dialogue to reflect how he felt the character should present himself. He wanted him to be more like him. You know, he wanted to kind of cool his jets a little bit and be more thoughtful about stuff. And that's one of the things I really appreciated about the character Ben, is that he had to use his wit and ingenuity to survive and not just brute force. He had to outsmart the circumstances. And unfortunately, that meant the humans around him that would betray him, because that's just a ridiculous thing to do when the world is out to kill all humanity, is betray the only people that you have beside you. But we're gonna talk about, I know the ending in a little bit, a little bit deeper, but I want to kind of mention something that Dwayne Jones said, which was about the ending. He said, I convinced George that the black community would rather see me dead than saved, after all that had gone on in a corny and symbolically confusing way. He also said, The heroes never die in American movies. The jolt of that and the double jolt of the hero being black seemed like a double barreled whammy. So he had all this thought going in. I mean, they literally wanted to change the ending to make it happier, and he was like, Hold off. That's not that's not what needs to be seen on screen. So amazing that we're able to get this actor in this role because it would never have been the same movie without it. The power that that has.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:13

Yeah, absolutely. And that's something that we even talk about a little bit deeper in the bonus episode that I was mentioning at the top half of this episode. Again, that's free for everyone, right? But we have a discussion about trauma, and we have a discussion of what that how that's translated in in black horror and how that's is represented, even the nuanced differences between this ending, this tragic, horrowing ending, and the ending that we get in, say, get out, right? No spoilers for that movie if you haven't seen it just yet. But there's something so heavy there, right? And I can't wait to talk about the rest of the characters in in a little bit, but Brian, I absolutely agree. Ben is undoubtedly the best part of the 1968 version.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:54

I totally agree that Ben is a real highlight of the original. Just George Romero having a black lead slash hero and it never being brought up as like a defining character trait or like a point of conflict. For me, that was just like so subversive. Even watching it now, I was like, ooh.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:09

What's awesome about that is that he got the role simply because he did the best job at the auditions. He was just the right person for the job. And it had nothing to do with his identity. It had everything to do with that jawline.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:22

Hmm. A beautiful man indeed.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:24

I will say my least favorite part about the original, though, was the convoluted conversation that they have when the Coopers first come up from the basement. Uh, they go back and forth about like the logistics of like, oh, you heard us in the house. And they're like, Well, no, we didn't know what we heard. And like, well, wouldn't you have come up to and they just it went on for far too long. And I was like, none of this matters. Can you both just shut the fuck up, please, so we can move on?

SPEAKER_04 1:32:46

But it establishes those characters and like who they're gonna be, and he's gonna be the D-bag from downstairs. Yeah, I love that.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:53

I felt they were established after the first like back and forth, and then there were like seven more.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:58

No, I love that because Ben was not gonna let that shit slide. He had to like root that shit out and confront it.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:03

I'm glad you have such a meaningful worst part because the thing that kind of took me out of it for a moment was at the um the food truck scene, you know, we had that fresh barbecue being served on a truck. Now I know it was impressive, obviously, like how they achieved it, but there was like a moment where I think I saw somebody eating like a turkey leg, and I just kind of had to crack up for a second.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:24

Oh, like like the shapes that they were eating.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:27

Yes, yeah. The shapes is that's what that's what, but I mean that's not a bad worst part. I really enjoyed everything else.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:32

Tom and Judy were very shapely people. There's nothing wrong with that. When you said food truck, I thought you were talking about the ending of the remake, and I was like, wait, we're not what are you talking about? And I just realized you called the burning truck full of people a food truck.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:45

It's a zombie food truck.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:47

God bless.

SPEAKER_06 1:33:48

Honorable mention for the original when Judy comes up from that basement with a full blowout. That was nice. Everyone else looked like shit. She's like, Oh, I'm actually still stunning right now. Here's me.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:58

So in the remake, since I loved it so much, I will address something that it that I didn't love. And it's actually, Paris has already talked about it. I really missed Helen's death. It was really so good in the original and just skimmed over, like not even skimmed over in a different way. I I felt like it was I felt like I blinked and I missed it. And I missed that a lot. And that that was one of the one of the only maybe no one of the only moments that I wasn't sure about in the remake.

SPEAKER_06 1:34:29

For me, obviously, you know, we talked about the disappointing hell and death. Um, but I was also really disappointed with the whole way that the daughters uh thing was treated. Uh, I feel like in the original, even though I did clock immediately, I was like, oh, that daughter got bit by a zombie and she's gonna come out later. They didn't give it away at at the first chance they got, like they did in the second one, where they were like, oh, she was bit by one of those things, and I guess we'll see. I was like, no, don't. I mean, like, at least make me work for it a little bit, you know? Um, and then just like that daughter being like in like a baby girl like church outfit, but being a full 17-year-old woman was just very bizarre to me.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:05

You're not wrong.

SPEAKER_06 1:35:06

Hey, she had braces on, so you know. Yeah, the braces of it all. It's like she had like a weird long face, and like I said, her jaw unhinges, and then the braces, I forgot about that.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:15

Wow, how I didn't even notice the braces is beyond me.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:19

I wanna I want to attack something a little bit a little bit bigger, and we've already mentioned it a little bit, and you know, it's cool. Barbara gets to finish off Harry Cooper, he's still alive, he made it to the end. We hate him. But having Ben turn from his wounds and and then of course get you know taken out at the end, that really spoiled the ending for me.

SPEAKER_06 1:35:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:42

And I appreciate changing things up. I mean, Tom Savini pushed really hard with the producers, he wanted to make Barbara the survivor, he wanted to make her an action heroine, and I'm down for that. The actress Patricia Tillman said, We're starting to accept women as strong, independent, thoughtful people, and not just set decoration. So I am down. I just kind of wish that her teamwork with Ben would have led to perhaps both of them free or both of them zombie food.

SPEAKER_04 1:36:10

But isn't that like so predictable? Like you expect her to go and find Ben. And it's it's it I feel like it plays off of the original feeling at the end, is that she goes, doesn't find Ben alive, and then finds Harry of all people and kills him. I feel like it like plays off that original unsettling ending, you know?

SPEAKER_02 1:36:31

Oh, for sure. I think it does. I think I would have still wanted in my in my heart, right? In my tender little heart. I still would have wanted Ben to live, right? Like because he deserves it. He put in the most work, the the most effort, um, was a good partner to Barbara, even if, you know, in the end, right, the decisions were a little misguided. Probably should have left a long time ago, but in reality, he didn't deserve the fate that he got. And I I too wish he would have lived. I'm not mad at the him turning from his wounds. I feel like Tony Todd did such an incredible job of just knowing that, right? Like that moment she gets, she's like, No, come on, you can come. And he's like, I'm hurt real bad. And it's like, you know, as he's descending down into the cellar to trap himself away, he knows in his mind what's about to happen next. And I think Tony Todd handled that with such gravity and prof and and depth, and I I loved that about his character.

SPEAKER_06 1:37:27

I also love that like final scene he has in the basement with his broken cigarette. Um, but I still feel like they did him dirty in this one.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:36

Here's how I would have preferred it to go down, and it's a bit silly, and this is all, you know, mental practice for no reason. But I would still be okay if he turns and they happen upon him and they're gonna take him out, and she kills them, the people that rode in with her, because she wants to be the one to finish things off for him.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:56

I'm fine with that because they all sucked anyway. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:58

I mean, honestly, if if you're barber, do you want to be found by those assholes?

SPEAKER_05 1:38:02

Oh god, who's worse?

SPEAKER_02 1:38:04

But like literally, they showed up with food trucks and like music. It was a festival. And that's I think one of the things that I appreciated about the remake and the way it handled its ending, it made the humans look just as bad in a different way. Like, honestly, zombies hanging from a tree and being like shot at, that felt more offensive to me. Like, I'm like, ugh, this is unnecessary. It's like at no and like it's like hunting for game versus hunting for survival, right? Like, people hunt. I'm not here to tell you if that's right, wrong, whatever. But I am saying that these people just took the element of survival out of it and are just having fun shooting and killing things, and that's just weird.

SPEAKER_04 1:38:48

I would say it was another moment, again, maybe a nod to the previous, and also maybe just because of the world we live in where there's not racial tension, but could be racial tension, because there's a certain stereotype that could be assigned to the people that rescue her or find her. And you know, she's go find a black man.

SPEAKER_06 1:39:10

Like there, there's some Oh yeah, and then just the visual of the three of them hanging from the tree. Like you know, the people are bad when you're thinking like the zombies deserved better.

SPEAKER_04 1:39:17

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:18

Funny you should say that. I've been having to like bite my tongue the whole time you're mentioning that, because that was actually written for the original.

SPEAKER_04 1:39:25

Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:26

And it was cut because of the racial tension at the time.

SPEAKER_04 1:39:29

I like knowing that. I pr I like it more now knowing that fact. Because I was just kind of like, eh, okay, like this is kind of doesn't really connect for me, but I get that. And I I'm also glad that it was cut out of the the original.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:45

Yeah, I support that. It's a scene that I never want to see.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:48

It's something that's it's still hard to stomach, but I will say that I appreciate Romero's story being told a second time in a different decade after some margin of progress, where even now, right, like 30, almost 30 years later, you can look at that movie and say, Ooh, I don't like seeing zombies hanging from a tree and being shot. Whereas if you watched this in 1968, the reaction that you gotten unfortunately would have been wholly different. And I uh it's it's it's painful to even just like think about, right? But it's one of those things that I can appreciate Savini bringing back, if nothing more than to just show the disparity and the change between the two timelines.

SPEAKER_04 1:40:32

It was also just done so well where like you could easily walk a fine line of like uh not not not being an exploit film, but like exploiting the feelings of the watcher and like completely changing the film because of how intense like those moments would have been. And the way it's done, it it doesn't do that, it doesn't take away from the film, it just makes you think like, is there like something else going on? And and it it just it's it brews in you as the person watching the movie.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:03

And I love Barbara's comment during that scene where she says, They're us, we're them, they're us. Where she just has that realization that the monsters that they've been trying to like, you know, fight and and survive past, like there's other monsters, and they're the ones that are walking around talking.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:21

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:22

That part. And you know, let's talk about characters for a minute because Barbara's character was very different between both films. And I'm so thankful she was given some teeth in the remake. She was allowed to fight for herself and not just be the helpless damsel in distress. Fantastic choice. I mean, no one really wants to watch a character just like sit there catatonic and not able to like even respond to basic questions. So when she has that moment at the beginning, it's that moment of shock that seems reasonable, and then she moves past it. But in the original, that was that was kind of hard for me because it's like I kind of feel like why is she even there at this point?

SPEAKER_04 1:42:00

It which is how people felt about women.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:03

Oh that's sad.

SPEAKER_04 1:42:04

I mean, that it's like it was just like, oh, women are hysterical. Like that's all you get from the original, and it's you're totally right. Why is she there? What is the purpose? Because it added nothing to the film. And the nuance of her being shocked and then moving on into it in the in the remake is totally like so it just felt so much more real and so much more relatable.

SPEAKER_06 1:42:26

See, Ryan, for the first half of this movie, I really thought that it was very much like, yeah, women are hysterical and useless in these kinds of situations, and that was just like the perspective of the times. But then Helen comes up and like casually like lights a sig and is like, Hey, what's going on with you? And Barbara's just like unresponsive, and Helen's just kind of like, um, okay, I guess I'm just gonna chill here since you're making it weird. So it was nice to see that like there were some diverse reactions from the women in these situations.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:56

I want to see a remake of Night of the Living Dead with Paris portraying Helen's character. Like, I want him to be the spouse in the cellar correcting his husband who's being a piece of shit, and then just coming acknowledging how everyone else in there is shit is too.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:13

I will happily take this part. Did anyone else catch when she was watching Harry like being shot and then go down into the cellar? How she was kind of like, Well, that happened.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:24

Yeah, she deserved it.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:26

She was a really underrated character, I think. That actress was great too.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:30

Like, she deserved the freedom of seeing him gone.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:33

But the other characters, I mean, I love how like individual each of them was, and they each played their own little part. I do want to call it, you guys said there were we had less screaming in the remake, but I feel like Judy Rose screamed a lot and it was really loud.

SPEAKER_04 1:43:49

Oh boy, did she. There was definitely still some screaming.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:43:53

But it wasn't just like hysterical chaos screaming, I felt like. Maybe like screaming with a purpose.

SPEAKER_06 1:43:59

It was screaming while productive because Judy Rose in the remake was much more useful. She was an asset to the team. She did 90% of the hammering when board when boarding up the house.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:10

She drives trucks.

SPEAKER_06 1:44:11

And yeah, and then when they needed a plan, she's like, I can drive. Tell them I can drive. Like, why are we worrying about this because I can drive? But also, was it a concern that nobody could drive? I assumed everyone in that building knew how to drive except that child. But even then she was 18.

SPEAKER_04 1:44:23

In the 60s, in the 60s, it was a concern. And I can verify this because my grandmother will tell you that she ended up with my grandfather because he was one of the first people around with a car. And men drove everywhere, and he left and left her with a car, and she didn't have any way to get around. So in the 60s, yes. In the 90s, no. I love that. It's like he has driving on his dating resume.

SPEAKER_06 1:44:49

Can drive.

SPEAKER_04 1:44:50

Yeah, but also the way she says it is hilarious. She's like, yeah, well, he had a car and I was bored. And now they've been married for six years. But one thing to mention is that they are on a farm. And if nothing else, being on a farm, there's a lot of sticks and everybody doesn't know how to drive a stick. But also in the 90s, everything was kind of a stick. So maybe I just contradicted myself.

SPEAKER_06 1:45:10

You mean stick shift, not twigs, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:45:12

Uh yep. Okay. The other element to that though is that Judy was proposing the logic of needing a third person there. Someone to drive, someone to fuel, someone to fight things off. So not just like the I'm gonna run out into the car and be useless and just add to the element of danger here.

SPEAKER_06 1:45:29

Get my coat stuck.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:30

Can't let my man go without me. But really, hey, I have a functional purpose. I can drive just fine these trucks. And it looked like an old rickety ass truck, right? Like you probably need someone who knows what the fuck they're doing with that thing. I'd be nervous to drive it. No power steering.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:46

No, hey, some of those old trucks don't have the clutch system that we're used to. So if she's like, I can drive trucks, she's like, I can drive real trucks, not just your F-150.

SPEAKER_04 1:45:57

Like it does matter on a on a farm driving a truck, it matters. It mattered at a time. Probably not now.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:05

Now they are F-150s, but back then she's like, I could drive trucks. She's like, hi, yeah, I'm a truck girl. The one character to me that was really interesting was Tom. And it was interesting because the other characters you could tell, like they're all right. We got the brave Ben. Ben's gonna do what it takes to survive. You have the complete coward, Harry Cooper, who will literally betray you and I don't know, hang back when you're asking for nails instead of just going, okay, here you go, like board that thing up so they don't kill everybody.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:35

He's your average middle management. I'm gonna sit back and do nothing while I technically delegate everything and watch it happen. Oh, he manages an Apple Piece. For sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:45

But then you have Tom, and Tom's like semi-reasonable. He's like, Yeah, I have we had that good plan before in both films, but now new information has come to light. And I think we should do this other thing because that like kind of makes sense to me. So I kind of feel bad that you know, Tom gets blown up. I mean, he shot the you know, the gas pump in the remake, but that wasn't smart. But in both films, he's like willing to help, willing to change his opinion on what they should do, and like actually performs action.

SPEAKER_03 1:47:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:14

Which is which is good. So he's he was an interesting one. And Judy, you know, went back and forth. Like she was more useful, obviously, in the remake, but in the original not not as much. I mean, and of course, she like runs out after Tom, which is lame, but if at least she was willing to go down and take care of the uh newly minted zombie daughter, that was kind of nice, I guess, even though she didn't want to.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:36

I did expect her to go at that point. Seeing this so often, I still expect her to get bitten because I feel like that's what you would expect in any case now, any zombie movie. I do also think that Harry was not quite as hateable in the original. Like I feel like they just like turned up the hatred knob like to a solid 20 from a 10 uh in the remake. He was at least useful in throwing Molotov cocktails uh to keep things away from Ben. I do have a question though, for strategy. Would you be team seller or team stay up stay up topside? Team Tony Todd, obviously.

SPEAKER_06 1:48:13

Team Tony Todd, but also team Kill Harry, like very quickly after he him being introduced. Like, no joke.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:20

He is a liability to us all. My girlfriend agrees. She we were watching, and she was immediately after seeing him speak for at least 30 seconds, was like, oh, we need to feed him to the zombies right away. Yes, yep.

SPEAKER_04 1:48:30

Yeah, you just you never hide somewhere that's one entrance and one exit. It it just doesn't make sense. And I just argued this about running into subway bathrooms a couple weeks ago. So you need you need an in and an out. That's what she said.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:44

I have a hybrid approach. I think you're gonna need both, right? You're in the house. It also happens to have a downstairs that you can lock with one door. So you should focus on obviously creating that perimeter, locking down the house, and using that cellar as your fallback and your place where you need to store like safe things. Like we need our food down there so we can get to it. We need the TV somewhere we can easily get to it. The radio, if the radio gets reception, bring it downstairs and keep it down there where it's not gonna get damaged. Like you have to utilize both. If you don't, you're kind of screwed. And I feel like they do in both films. You end up using both the main house and the cellar, and there's no way around it.

SPEAKER_04 1:49:24

Not because of Harry, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:49:25

Not because of Harry, because Harry wanted to hole up immediately. Like lock the door, put the bar in it. Hopefully, someone's gonna come save us and we won't starve and like you know, be oxygen deprived.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:35

Or be shot.

SPEAKER_00 1:49:36

Or be shot. Good night. But you you need both. You need the main room to walk around to be able to scope things out, control that barrier. When that one falls, yeah, then you go back into the cellar when you can't hold it down anymore.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:48

Good. I'm glad you guys agree. Just as Ben originally proposed before Harry decided to be the biggest dick on earth. I just want I have a question for the strategy because I feel like some people, if you're used to like tornados, may think just Like, oh, go down to the strongest point in the house. Nothing can get you in the cellar, the storm cellar.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:05

Man, whenever I think about zombies, I think about it's just like a tornado. I'll do what I do then.

SPEAKER_02 1:50:10

Zomnado, yeah, for sure. When really, if you grow up with hurricanes, you know, board up the whole house and uh, you know, just have a fallback plan of what you're gonna do next.

SPEAKER_00 1:50:19

Keep your options open.

SPEAKER_02 1:50:20

Kick it and eat some snacks.

SPEAKER_00 1:50:22

And hopefully alligators don't show up.

SPEAKER_02 1:50:24

Exactly. Paris, I know this question is gonna be obvious. You probably would never watch either of these movies again.

SPEAKER_06 1:50:29

Yeah, that's correct.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:30

What about the rest of you? I would watch the remake again for sure. If it's if it's on, I'm watching it.

SPEAKER_00 1:50:37

I'm a little bit opposite. I would say for the original, if you haven't seen it, you need to watch it. If you have seen it, you need to watch it again. This is like the Mona Lisa of zombie films, and every now and then you need to view it as a piece of art. For the remake, however, I think you're better off watching the original and calling it a day. Nothing wrong with watching it watching the remake. It is a killer zombie film, but then I'm kind of done with it. I think it holds its own value, it's an updated version, and you get to see Tony Todd in action, which is always worth watching. But I probably won't watch this one again. I mean, this film is included on Roger Ebert's most hated list. I mean, he thought Romero had like just basically made the same movie another time. I don't agree. I don't hate it that much. I think it's its own standalone film. It's just not my favorite of the two.

SPEAKER_04 1:51:25

Also, the Mona Lisa is very small. Nobody cares.

SPEAKER_06 1:51:28

The Mona Lisa is small. That's the thing they don't tell you. But I I would like to make an addendum to mine. I may watch the remake, but I would definitely watch the remake light years before watching the original again because the original may have been good at the time, but does not stand up for me now. Whereas the remake is still a pretty decent movie overall.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:46

Yeah, I don't know. I can't imagine a circumstance in which I'll continue just like watching the remake out of any like personal desire. It's a good movie. I'd watch it with someone who hasn't watched it before or someone who's like in the mood to watch it. I think I've just seen it enough in my life to be like, it's low on the list of things that I willingly rewatch. The original though is such a classic, and uh I I think it's one that warrants a more frequent watch, and I'm actually a little disappointed in myself that I haven't watched it more as an adult. But it's time to pick the real winner here. The head-to-head comparison. Which movie, the original or the remake, are the better visuals?

SPEAKER_00 1:52:25

Remake. Original.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:27

Wow, that's so hard.

SPEAKER_04 1:52:29

I think I'll go remake, but it's so barely.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:33

Well, Rutrow, we have a uh split between original and remake, because I'm going original. I mean, the remake looks good and sure, but the original looks good and makes me feel things from looking good, so it's not just something that's pretty to look at. What about the better approach to story?

SPEAKER_00 1:52:51

No, that's a tough one because the story is pretty darn similar between both films. You get a little bit more exposition, though, in the remake for each character. So I actually might give it to the remake.

SPEAKER_04 1:53:03

I'm gonna go to the original just for the use of rogue interplanetary uh communications, radiation, whatever it was.

SPEAKER_06 1:53:13

Um, I think I'm also gonna give it to the original just because, like Max said, the stories are very similar except the endings, and I think the ending of the original is the one I prefer.

SPEAKER_02 1:53:23

Damn. Uh I'm I'm split here because I I appreciate the approach to Barbara more in the remake, but I'm a fan of the original. Fuck it, I'm going original uh because honestly, you just can't you can't you can't compare. This is the thing that started it all. But what about better performances?

SPEAKER_00 1:53:42

Oh, original, night and day.

SPEAKER_02 1:53:44

Oh, remake night and day.

SPEAKER_05 1:53:46

Ooh, I feel like it's not that night and day. It's kind of murky. Um it's a nice overcast.

SPEAKER_04 1:53:52

The only thing that's murky is that Ben is great in both.

SPEAKER_06 1:53:55

Yeah, Ben's great in both. Okay, if I had to compare the two Bens, Tony Todd wins, okay, remake.

SPEAKER_02 1:54:00

Uh, well, at least the original is winning another category here. I'm giving it to the original, if nothing more than for Dwayne Jones uh portrayal of Ben. Look, Tony Todd is incredible. I can't say enough about how great he is, but the reality is Dwayne Jones showed up and completely evolved this character in a way that no one saw coming, and in a way that has gone down in history, in a way that is still felt in relevancy today. Um, so for that, he carried the movie, and he's the only performance that mattered. Dwayne Jones had to walk for Tony Todd to run, okay?

SPEAKER_06 1:54:37

Sure. I mean, uh just one thing I'll add. There were two monologues, one from Dwayne Jones and one from Barbara, that I was like, this feels like a monologue to showcase an actor's skill, and I wasn't blown away. Whereas there was a lot of like acting that didn't feel so deliberate in the remake that I felt like, oh, this is just good acting.

SPEAKER_00 1:54:56

Now, see, when I look at it, I'm watching that original and I'm seeing a stage actor be relatable on screen and seem like a real human being on screen where a lot of stage actors in that time seemed like stage actors who happened to be on film, and that was super boring.

SPEAKER_02 1:55:13

Who were hysterical.

SPEAKER_00 1:55:14

Exactly. And there's a couple in the original who seem like that. They seem very histrionic in their performance, but we don't get that from Ben. At least I didn't perceive it that way. I felt like this was a real, relatable, well-spoken, well-educated human being.

SPEAKER_02 1:55:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:55:29

Ben was the best performance of the original.

SPEAKER_02 1:55:32

I don't know. I mean, looking even at his monologues, they still felt the way the original Ben carried his emotions, he spoke with this way that like he's seen some shit, he's he's done some things, he's not happy about any of it, but he will continue because he is resilient. And it's not that Tony Todd didn't have it, it's just that Ben from the original held it in such like a swagger that I just I found completely superior, at least when comparison when comparing the two. But there you have it, folks. Knight of the Living Dead has racked up some mixed feelings here on Hackerslash. While the original had two hacks and two slashes, the remaker, three slashes and one hack. At least Paris is super consistent because he doesn't like zombie movies, so I guess we could have predicted that had we known that going into this.

SPEAKER_06 1:56:21

I mean, it's good for a zombie movie, I'll say that.

SPEAKER_02 1:56:24

Yeah, but it's still not your cup of tea, and that's fair. We've had a lot of discussion here, and there's so much more to have. Uh again, check out that bonus episode. It's free to everyone over on our Patreon, and let us know what you think. Keep in mind there are a number of ways you can reach out to us and share your thoughts and those opinions, starting with our website, hackerslash.com. You can also hit us up on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter at Hackerslash.

SPEAKER_04 1:56:45

But if you're not into social media, we also have a Hacker Slash Hotline. So you can text us, call us, leave us a voicemail, or an audio message. Our number is 757-606-0128.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:56

And if you're currently hiding in your house awaiting a zombie apocalypse, feel free to type us an email to feedback at hackerslash.com.

SPEAKER_06 1:57:02

And if you've enjoyed listening to our podcast, consider becoming one of our patrons, like Ken. You can visit patreon.com slash hacker slash to earn cool perks for as low as one dollar a month.

SPEAKER_02 1:57:12

We'll see you next time. Bye, Zombros.