SPEAKER_06 0:04

Would you say she got the pipe she was looking for?

SPEAKER_02 0:11

Greetings and salutations, and welcome to the final Halloween episode of Hackerslash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. You're hunting it, ain't ya? If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack, a total joke, a waste of time, or a slash.

SPEAKER_01 0:29

Totally killer, pun intended.

SPEAKER_02 0:31

We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, we're rating these movies with a perspective we've gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast. This week I'm joined by the Superfly Space Guy Mac, Happy Halloween, the Gore Lover Alexis, Hello everyone, the Carol the Creeper Ryan, hiya, and the Scream Queen Paris.

SPEAKER_05 0:54

Don't try that Halloween shit with me.

SPEAKER_02 0:56

We've been missing our annual dose of Michael Myers this year, so we're rectifying that in this episode with a look back at his return to the big screen. Before we kick off the welcoming party though, we do have some follow-up.

SPEAKER_05 1:06

So if you haven't already checked it out, we recently released an episode for our third birthday, uh, and we tried something a little different. We did a sort of horror adventure tabletop Dungeons and Dragons style fantasy adventure that ensued in nothing short of ridiculousness, uh, and a little bit of drama and mystery as well. Each of us played a camp counselor at Camp Happy Dreams, probably the worst camp counselors ever to work at a camp.

SPEAKER_06 1:34

Wildly negligent. I mean, aren't they all bad? We didn't even try though.

SPEAKER_05 1:39

But we asked our friends on Twitter, whose cabin would you want to be in at Camp Happy Dreams? Now we did note that regardless of which cabin you choose, you will be neglected, forgotten, and murdered by a homicidal maniac, so you can't sue us.

SPEAKER_04 1:50

Totally fair.

SPEAKER_05 1:51

Uh and the results were pretty close, but we do have a clear winner, which was Chrysler.

SPEAKER_02 1:55

I'm gonna be honest, I I don't understand why I'm flattered uh that you would trust Chrysler with your precious little life, but Raina was the only counselor who was nice to anyone, period. I was a sweet lady.

SPEAKER_05 2:08

See, we had Raina and Sandy coming in tied for second place, and then my girl Vivica getting nothing with a low 13% vote. And I'll be honest, that was me that voted.

SPEAKER_06 2:19

That's because of her attitude. She was she was frustrating, nobody wanted to be around her, and she was also a little bit dangerous, to be honest.

SPEAKER_05 2:26

We also have a uh new patron that we want to give a shout out to. Thank you so much, MT, for joining our patron team and our horror family. Uh, we're so grateful to have a new supporter in our in our corner.

SPEAKER_02 2:39

And especially after joining us on our birthday.

SPEAKER_05 2:41

What a lovely birthday present.

SPEAKER_06 2:43

The question is did they hear the birthday podcast and decide they liked us, or they just haven't heard it yet? And then they'll be they'll be unpatreoning. That would be freaking epic. Yes, I'm aware that's not a word. You know what I mean.

SPEAKER_05 2:57

Even if just for a month, MT, we really appreciate it. And that's our follow-up.

SPEAKER_02 3:01

All right. Well, this week we're traveling back to 1988 and getting a glimpse of when Michael Myers reintroduced himself to horror audiences. Taking place ten years after the night the shape wreaked havoc on the little town of Haddonfield, this story that we're going to be discussing follows Michael on his quest to add to that body count. Now, it's no secret that Jamie Lee Curtis does not reprise her role as legendary Final Girl Lori in this film, and that's because at the time she sought separation from the horror genre. Instead, Michael has his eyes on a new target, his seven-year-old niece. This week, we're talking about Halloween 4, The Return of Michael Myers.

SPEAKER_03 3:35

Now, who has seen this before? Do not want to speak for Mac, but I think him and I uh watched this and then realized I thought I hadn't seen it, and then clearly realized I had seen it a few times. Maybe once or twice.

SPEAKER_01 3:47

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 3:48

Seems to be a trend lately.

SPEAKER_01 3:49

You know, it it really was like starting to watch it, it's it all seems very familiar. And I'm like, maybe I have, maybe I've just seen some clips. And it wasn't until I made it into a pretty early scene with a costume where I was like, oh, I've totally seen this movie. And then the rest of it, it was like, okay, you know, it's not to the point where I remember a lot of it, but I remember like small pieces. So yeah, it was it was in the memories.

SPEAKER_02 4:13

At least it was in the beginning. So it wasn't as familiar as the House of the Devil.

SPEAKER_01 4:16

Right. It was one of those where it was like, I probably watched this on Halloween night, you know, and one of those Halloweens in past. Um House of the Devil was like, as soon as I started watching it, I just replayed the whole movie in my head.

SPEAKER_06 4:28

Uh, you guys know I haven't seen this movie.

SPEAKER_05 4:31

Uh, I also have not seen this, but I have seen Halloween Town 2 Calabar's Revenge, which is a completely unrelated film.

SPEAKER_03 4:39

Also a good movie.

SPEAKER_02 4:40

So I'll tell you what. Ryan, on the Halloween 3 episode, you said that you were concerned about hacking Halloween 3 because you feel like I would be disappointed in you. And let's just be clear, again, this franchise in general is a very choose your own adventure, and there are so many movies that are lesser in quality, and my love is unconditional for all of them. However, I I do clearly recognize that Halloween 1 and 2 are the superior ones. I don't care what you say about these. The way I've always thought about this movie is it's one of the biggest catfishes in the franchise. And I know a lot of people aren't gonna agree with that. It's cool. People will immediately throw down Halloween Resurrection and the infamous Michael gets his ass kicked by Buster Rhymes as like the most disappointing point in the franchise. Sure. Now, the thing is, this the poster for this film in particular uses artwork from the original, and it uses a still from the original. It's the shot where the shape is walking from the Wallace home over to the Doyle residence. And the tagline is ten years ago he changed the face of Halloween, tonight he's back. So it looks amazing, right? And it paints this picture that you're gonna get classic Michael. What you get instead is the first of a long sequence of movies with wildly different masks, which we're gonna talk about at length tonight, I'm sure. Very different feeling, Michael Myers from movie to movie. So I've seen this movie countless times, and when it's not my favorite Halloween movie. I'd say it's maybe on the upper half of the list, but mostly because of atmosphere and characters. We'll get there in a minute though, but what were you folks expecting from this?

SPEAKER_03 6:08

I literally was expecting just a continuation, I guess, of the second one, or I don't know what it is, but there's um it's Michael Myers' niece, and I'm like, okay, somehow in these movies he has multiple nieces. I don't know how it happens, but um yeah, I was like, oh, it's gonna be a movie about a niece. I'm not sure which one, but one of the four, I think there is.

SPEAKER_02 6:29

There's only been two nieces and one nephew, but they've all been like different universes.

SPEAKER_05 6:33

I can say that going into this one, I was expecting a return to form, um, just having that context provided by Chris that the the third one was kind of the only deviation from the the main Michael Myers narrative, uh, which may or may not be the case because it sounds like there's multiple universes at this point. Um, but I was kind of expecting something similar to what we had in the first two. Um and at this point I've watched four Halloween movies in the past like ten days, so my mind was just kind of a blur, and I was like, whatever this is gonna be, I'll just let it wash over me and then decide.

SPEAKER_06 7:07

I mean, to be fair, when you're watching aside from the third, which I if you know going in, you know it's different. Um, when you're planning to watch a Michael Myers movie, you pretty much know you're gonna get Michael Myers walking down the street with a with a knife. And I think that's a fair expectation, and that certainly was mine going in.

SPEAKER_03 7:23

Pierce, did you enjoy watching them back to back? I know sometimes when I'm watching like a franchise, I kind of like it.

SPEAKER_05 7:28

It's been fun, like immersing myself in like the the origin of such a huge genre, but it's also been at times overwhelming.

SPEAKER_03 7:38

Interesting. Well, you should watch the Saw franchise during they did not pay me, but I clearly was like, I think I'm becoming numb to this kind of stuff once I hit like I don't even know.

SPEAKER_01 7:52

Saw 12, maybe?

SPEAKER_03 7:54

Yeah, I think I was at like six, and I was like, Jigsaw space movie.

SPEAKER_01 7:59

That needs to be your new Twitter profile. You should watch the Saw franchise. That's just all you need to write in there.

SPEAKER_03 8:05

Saw franchise or die.

SPEAKER_01 8:07

I was expecting Kyler Grant. I was expecting Michael Myers, I was expecting a large kitchen knife, I was expecting, you know, a shadowy figure teleporting around the entire movie. And you know, that's kind of what I just expect out of Michael Myers. He's gonna show up when you least expect him, he's gonna stab some people through a wall or through a door or something cool like that. And that's really all I that's all I need, you know. He that's all I need to be satisfied.

SPEAKER_02 8:34

Just a a quick recap here. Uh Paris, I know you hadn't watched the original Halloween movies up until you start watching them for this season that we're currently in, but you did say you watched the 2018 Halloween.

SPEAKER_05 8:47

I did, yes.

SPEAKER_02 8:48

And Ryan, have you seen the 2018 Halloween? Have you seen any other Halloween movies beyond what I know we did Halloween 2 for the podcast last year?

SPEAKER_06 8:56

I have seen everything, obviously, that we've done so far and then 2018.

SPEAKER_02 9:00

Okay. So there's like a whole chunk of time missing for both of you about like what has gone on in the Michael Myers story.

SPEAKER_06 9:06

Yes. Interesting. But also, to be fair, it doesn't really seem that way because they all kind of, like you said, it's kind of like choose your own adventure. So you can watch 2018 and not feel lost.

SPEAKER_02 9:16

For sure, for sure. But I think one of the cool things about the 2018 Halloween is that there are a lot of references and nods to all the other movies in the franchise, including this one, including a pretty prominent set piece.

SPEAKER_03 9:27

I was so excited. There was one part that I was like, oh, I remember commenting that on this on the 2018 version, and I'm so excited to bring it up tonight.

SPEAKER_02 9:35

Yeah, it's a good time. Now, this is one of those movies that somehow I never get bored watching. It's one where like I clear as day remember everything that's going to happen, and it's not necessarily that way for like five and six that come after it, but I do think it's so well paced that I never really fall into a lull waiting for it to be over. And it's like a very clean, tight 88 minutes, and it doesn't feel like it has a lot of unnecessary fluff.

SPEAKER_05 9:57

I couldn't disagree more.

SPEAKER_02 9:59

Wow. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_05 10:00

For the most part, the first half, I was like, okay, good pacing. And then we hit this moment where it just felt like it was dragging on, and we it was obviously building up to the the climax, but I felt like they stretched it out for just like maybe five to seven minutes too long for my taste. And I I did notice myself starting to fall asleep, but I was like, nope, I am not that tired. Uh, I will finish this to the end and not fall asleep, which I did. Um, and then they definitely pick it back up in the ending, but I definitely felt a lull there.

SPEAKER_06 10:28

Hmm. That's interesting. I'm not sure when you felt that. Uh I'm I mostly agree with Chris. I think it goes by pretty fast, and and like I said, your expectations are only they can only be but so much when you're going into a Halloween movie. Like, hi, it's Halloween. He's attacking someone and chasing someone somehow. Generally, I would say I felt entertained. I I I wouldn't say I was bored at any point, but there were some times where I didn't like care that much, and maybe that's where you were at, Paris.

SPEAKER_05 11:00

I feel that.

SPEAKER_03 11:01

I thought the pacing was great, I think, because mostly you start off with the kill, and I was and I love that in a movie, just like you're just dropped into a scene and you kind of have to figure out like what's going on, which is my favorite kind of intro. And then I feel like you get so many kills throughout this movie that it really keeps me entertained.

SPEAKER_01 11:19

I was entertained as well. This to me felt like a proper Michael Myers movie. You know, I I've seen I've seen others in the franchise, I haven't seen them all, unfortunately. I haven't seen the latest ones either. Sorry, Chris, but I remember like Halloween, I mean what were we done, like H2O and Resurrection and stuff, and obviously they're Michael Myers movies, but they feel like Michael Myers movies set for the millennium. And you know, this doesn't feel like that. It's not like, hey, we brought him back, but it's like he's gonna be cool. Like this is gonna be a cool movie. It's like this is another slasher film, and it was a solid, you know, performing film. I think we got some suspense, I think we got some decent kills, I think we got some night stalking, I think we got a couple diversions, which was which was cool as well. So all in all, I enjoyed watching it.

SPEAKER_05 12:06

I want to add that I too was entertained. Alexis, you kind of put it into a good perspective for me. I think because they front loaded a lot of good kills in the beginning, when we went a certain period of time without any kills, that's when I was starting to be like, okay, where where's Michael? What what's going on here?

SPEAKER_03 12:20

Why is there no stab stab?

SPEAKER_05 12:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:22

You just want people getting wrecked every second of the day. You just want like uh Jason Voorhees walking around a camp, throwing people around in sleeping bags. That's what you want.

SPEAKER_05 12:30

Every four minutes someone has to die, or I'll start to tune out.

SPEAKER_02 12:33

I'm sorry you're gonna be disappointed in this franchise.

SPEAKER_05 12:36

It's a good thing that's not true at all.

SPEAKER_06 12:38

I think in most franchises, to be fair, or uh most movies.

SPEAKER_02 12:42

So it was never a surprise for me in particular, but I think it might surprise some people to hear that I have like a major disappointment in this movie, and it comes in three different ways. So the the three things that have always disappointed me about it, and honestly, they all revolve around Michael Myers, which is so hard to say and so hard for my heart to feel. The first is just like how how this movie sets up Michael's brute strength to be even more than the first two films. And there's a kill in the beginning of this movie that I know a lot of people love, and they're like, Yeah, this is the shit I'm here for. But for me, it feels excessive. And the big one though is just his mask. Just about every mask, I think, is inferior to the timelessness of the original. But this is the first one that for me just felt silly. To be clear, it's it's far from being the worst we get, right? It's some of the some of the later stuff we get. I think there's like a CGI mask at one point and like a shot in H2O, and it is painful to see. We'll talk about it more after the spoiler break, but the makeup technician on this film had a hell of a time trying to salvage it from like a pretty big snafu and mistake that happened during the production of the masks. But lastly, this film is just, in my opinion, the first in a revolving door of inferior Michael Myers. He's not bad, but when the bar is set so high in the original, it just becomes so easy to miss the mark. And he's not at the bottom of the list, but he's definitely not at the top. And I think that's just like a hard thing for me to get through every time.

SPEAKER_03 14:04

Yeah, he seemed uh, I mean, a little less human than he has previously been, and very robotic. Like, and I know I, you know, people call him the shape for a reason, you know. He's just this huge guy, you know, who had this presence. But honestly, I got more of like a robotic. I mean, even the things he was doing, it was just like, yeah, it I mean, I get this, there's this strain, but no one just moves their arm like the way he was. So I don't know, it just didn't seem very like realistic to me.

SPEAKER_06 14:34

I'll agree with the both of you. I think the mask, and I can't wait to hear Chris tell us more about it or share more about it. The mask is something that didn't really speak to me in this movie, and I think that it's kind of like I was trying to relate it to how I feel about Freddie, where it's like, I love Freddie. Sometimes the Freddy films are inferior, even though I love Freddy. And and I think that I totally align this in that same way. Like, he's good, but it does feel like robotic, and and it he doesn't like chill for a sec. Like he doesn't, there's no like moment where you're like, wait, maybe he won't, maybe he won't kill everyone. No, no, no, no, no. He's killing everyone, you know the deal. But you don't get those little those little like bits. Um, so I will say that Michael is probably the the the slight disappointment in this movie.

SPEAKER_05 15:25

I want to say something that I was surprised by, but yeah, I'm definitely curious to hear what this mask snafu is that Chris is gonna tell us about. But I was really surprised by how much I appreciated Jamie's character and the actress that played her, Danielle Harris. Usually chill child actors, you know, it's hit or miss and it can really make or break something. Uh it could make it unwatchable or it could make it watchable. And I was really impressed with like how evocative of a performance that she gave to the point where sometimes I was like, is this child abuse? Like making this girl do all this stuff? Because she's like really committing to this. Uh, and like I feel like she's actually sad in the times that she was crying and terrified.

SPEAKER_06 16:04

I mean, is all child acting kind of child abuse? Who really knows at this point?

SPEAKER_01 16:08

She really did have a great performance that really stood out to me because I didn't remember that when I realized that I had seen this film and then I realized it, and I was like, oh, I totally for some reason thought we were gonna get Jamie Lee Curtis. Now that I realize we aren't, like, okay, it adds up. But yeah, the character Jamie, like, great portrayal, really solid performance. A lot of child actors end up being either really whiny or sometimes just like I don't know, they just overact sometimes or underact. And it was kind of it was kind of a perfect, perfect balance. But I I definitely want to go back to the I guess surprise and disappointment on Michael Myers because I feel like maybe this is all my head, Chris, but like I remember Michael Myers that would like take time to like give us like a little head tilt or maybe some eye contact, even though you can't see the eyes.

SPEAKER_02 16:54

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Really soak it in.

SPEAKER_01 16:56

Yeah, and we're we were missing some of that because you know he's like taking his time to to stalk his prey and like soaking up every moment, and yes, he's like in control, but he has those moments of vulnerability, even though he, you know, generally comes out on top. And on this one, it seems like it doesn't really matter what's going to happen. You could probably shoot him with a machine gun and he'd be okay, and then he could like punch through a rhinoceros or something. And so I think that slight vulnerability that he had in previous films, getting rid of that actually made him seem worse of a character. Sure, it's scary that somebody can't be stopped, but they're killing everybody, but I think it kind of removed from the fright factor because you know, if there's that vulnerability, there's this like there's this feeling that there's this back and forth of like maybe I can get him before he gets me, and when you can't, then you realize that terror.

SPEAKER_02 17:42

Right. And I think what it comes down to for me and why I've struggled with Michael Myers in so many different ways, it's because the beauty of what the first film sets up is that Michael Myers is a little boy next door, and Michael Myers is just evil, and Michael Myers could be anyone. But here's the problem in this franchise, when they decided to bring back Michael and not go in the direction that John Carpenter and Deborah Hill originally intended to, they came up with this idea that literally anybody could play Michael. It doesn't matter. Like Nick Castle had relative anonymity before he played the shape in the first film, and a few different people played him in that original movie. But when you just think that anybody just sticks some generic tall guy in some coveralls and put a mask on him and he's gonna be Michael Myers, it's just you don't have the walk, you don't have the presence. There's so much personality that comes out in those subtle movements that I think this movie diminishes quite a bit. So I definitely agree with you there.

SPEAKER_05 18:38

I also feel like this Michael was kind of tense in a weird way. Like he didn't seem like he was in full control. Like I feel like his shoulders were up by his ears the whole time. And I was like, Michael, you're terrorizing us. Like, why do you look kind of like stiff and scared?

SPEAKER_02 18:53

Let me tell you why he looks stiff and scared. First off, I think they try to like chalk up some lack of mobility there to him being an invalid and like being like his muscles having atrophied. But the actor who played him was a thinner guy, and he literally wore hockey pads underneath his costume to look more menacing. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 19:13

There it is.

SPEAKER_02 19:13

Now it all makes sense. Wow. And uh you can't unsee it at that point.

SPEAKER_01 19:17

But you could totally get somebody like Doug Jones who can act so well without ever saying a thing, and like he would probably come off as menacing.

SPEAKER_03 19:25

He's too skinny though to be the shape. I don't know. Way too skinny.

SPEAKER_01 19:29

I think he could probably pull it off just just through his movements alone.

SPEAKER_03 19:32

I mean, yeah, I agree with that.

SPEAKER_05 19:34

Let's get Dwayne the Rock Johnson in here.

SPEAKER_03 19:36

Mac, I know you found him less menacing, but I don't know. There's this, like, still this aura of Michael Myers that still freaks me out. You know, it's like, okay, he can be there one minute and not there the other, and then behind you. Also, like his strength is super crazy. And I don't know, it's just so terrifying. Like, I before I left to come here, I had turned off all the lights, and I was like, Yes, for some reason, the theme song was like playing in the back of my head, and I was like, this isn't happening right now. Like, this isn't. But I don't know. I think he's still freaking, so it's terrifying.

SPEAKER_06 20:06

Mike's not there this time. I agree with you. He does have this presence that just scares you, and the the strength in this, I think, is overly intense, where you're just like, oh, we're just gonna be crushed um if you're in this situation. But since I don't live in Haddonfield, this movie doesn't scare me, which seems silly, but um that that is what it is. I I wasn't scared during this.

SPEAKER_05 20:28

I felt like I was definitely put into a position where I was feeling tense during the the suspenseful like build-ups to mo to more intense moments. Um, and there were actually two specific moments where uh without giving too much away, something kind of breaks the rules of Michael Myers in a way. And I was like, oh wait, what? And I was actually startled both of those times. Uh, and I was surprised that it got me the second time, even though it was like the same kind of gag.

SPEAKER_02 20:57

I'd be interested to hear what those are. I think this is one where it's not going to be the scariest Michael Myers film you see, but I think for me, what I've always experienced is fear for two main characters. And I think the quality of their performance and like how authentic their co their chemistry is, I've felt myself like always tense. There's like a particular scene in the third act where they're you know, Michael Myers is hot in pursuit, and I just always have this intention of like, oh my god, he might actually get them. I've seen this every year for like 30 years at this point, and I'm still concerned about these characters. But I think that's you know, the dynamic between those characters is what sets this movie in particular apart from me, especially with other movies in this franchise. I think they had the opportunity to do some really wild stuff here, and this movie is a return to the basics of Halloween, but it still feels different, you know. Going in the decision that they did and how they were gonna handle Lori's character and how they're gonna handle not having Jamie. Lee Curtis on here and how they bring in the niece. It still feels pretty different for me, especially since Michael Myers is so family focused versus just the random anonymous stranger killing people who show up on their territory. See, for me, this doesn't feel original.

SPEAKER_06 22:15

And I think it's just, you know, it is a part of the franchise. There's a lot of similarities. Um, so generally, I don't feel the originality. I will say, as far as horror movies are concerned, especially in this time period, we didn't get titties. So it's a little bit original.

SPEAKER_05 22:30

We were so close though.

SPEAKER_06 22:31

We got so close, but not there. You got asked, though. We did uh while her dad is home. It's an interesting experience.

SPEAKER_03 22:41

I totally agree with you. It seems like I mean, there are many things in this movie that, you know, reflect onto or are very similar to previous movies that we've seen. Um, I like that about these movies. You know, I don't want you to change them so much. Um, I kind of want you to go. The reason I want to watch this entire franchise is because of those nuances, because of all those little things and keep those relatively the same. And you got me going on for a ride. Sometimes unoriginal is not a bad thing. Yes, exactly. Sometimes you want to stay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 23:13

Don't get too fresh on number four, please.

SPEAKER_05 23:16

Oh, yeah. They definitely captured the same energy of the original two, um, which wouldn't necessarily be the most original thing, but like you guys are saying, that's not also that's also not necessarily a bad thing. Um, but I do feel like story-wise, this was very original because you have a crazed serial killer um tormenting a young child uh who happens to be his like estranged niece. Um, and I have not seen anything like that before. Um I was sort of reminded though of Child's Play 2, um, because we do have an antagonist uh pursuing like a really young character, which you really don't see that often, especially nowadays. Um, and then they're accompanied by like a blonde, like outcast teen girl, and it's like the two of them like fighting this antagonist. So I was reminded of that movie, and it was for the better. It was a good thing.

SPEAKER_01 24:08

The only way I could think to sum this up is by relating it to Star Trek, which I know you guys probably won't get, but they did something really smart when they were making their episodes where they spent each episode getting to know different characters, so they could focus on one person, you know, one episode, another person, another episode, but still feature everybody, and so you would still see the entire cast, but you'd kind of learn more about each one. So, like, sure, it's Michael Myers, sure it's a slasher. Yes, it feels like a proper traditional Halloween movie, but I think Jamie is really what sets this apart where we're we're focusing on this character who has had their own experience of of their life, and then we're kind of seeing where that goes because of Michael Myers. So I found that to be really interesting, and it's kind of its own thing.

SPEAKER_02 24:52

100%. I mean, these movies well, this movie and then Halloween 5 are known and on the map because of Danielle Harris. I mean, granted, you know, this was her first feature film, so it's not like she was this huge star that brought that to this, but her performance in this is undeniable, and she has gone on to become a legitimate scream queen. So these movies are the Danielle Harris movies, and you know, she's done a great injustice as we get into part six, relying so heavily on her and this performance, and then the way she carries this movie. I mean, like, this is a lot of movie to put on the shoulders of a little girl, right? Like a little seven-year-old kid.

SPEAKER_00 25:29

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:30

Yeah, you have a colossal failure with Halloween 3, and now she has to fill in the shoes of Jamie Lee Curtis, which is insane. I think one of the other cool things though, about this movie, apart from just her and the energy she brings to it, it honestly has one of the most memorable endings for me in the franchise.

SPEAKER_05 25:49

I gotta say, as we were approaching the ending, I thought to myself, there is something very specific that I really want to see happen. And then it happened, and I was like, ooh. Um, it reminded me of another film that we have discussed before, um, and that I also enjoyed. But uh yeah, I was actually very pleased with the ending, more so than I was expecting to be.

SPEAKER_03 26:12

Yeah, very similar, very uh, very shocking ending, in my opinion. I really I really enjoyed it though. I guess leading up to it, I was expecting something different. I didn't know, and I had seen this movie before, and I was like, still like, oh my gosh, this is happening. And then all of a sudden, it just completely spun me around. And so they got you twice. They got me twice.

SPEAKER_06 26:35

I really enjoyed this ending. I thought it was uh it was it was what we needed after after what this movie had gone through without like I you couldn't set this apart from another Halloween movie without it, and I enjoyed I'd enjoyed it quite a bit, and uh I I can't say I saw it coming, but I was excited when it happened.

SPEAKER_01 26:55

It was an exciting ending though, because there there was a lot of kind of build-up, um different strings being pulled together, and we get this this final note, and I think it worked really well, and it had a lot of action kind of leading up to it, and I think it was you know it was a really sharp ending. It wasn't it wasn't dull, it didn't kind of lead off into nowhere. You know, we didn't see people just kind of slink away and oops, that's the end of the movie. It was like build up, build up, build up, and now boom, movie done, move on to the next one. So I liked it. I think it was a fitting ending for a for a Halloween film. And you know, it seemed like a traditional like slasher ending. It didn't seem like they were gonna try something crazy or they're gonna try something new and it was gonna be bad and it failed, or they weren't going super boring, like something that you could super predict. It it actually seemed like a pretty solid way to wrap things up for this film. As we all know, there was several other uh films to come.

SPEAKER_02 27:44

I'm glad you felt that way about the ending, Mac. And I do want to know how all this is going to turn out in the scores, but before we actually rate this movie, Alexis, what's our body count?

SPEAKER_03 27:53

I am glad to say that this is definitely a slasher. Uh we have 16 kills in this movie, and I am very happy about that.

SPEAKER_02 28:01

And Ryan, I know we've had great luck with the animal report in Halloween so far. What's it looking like tonight? Of course, as we as we wrap it up here, our animal report is not good this week.

SPEAKER_06 28:12

This is very sad times. Okay, I wasn't fully prepared. Uh, there is an animal death, not necessarily on screen, but you see enough to be sad about it, so be prepared.

SPEAKER_02 28:21

Yeah, it's for sure not as visceral as the death we get in Halloween one, but you know, it is what it is. Now let's go ahead and start rating this movie. Halloween four, the return of Michael Myers, when he came back again after 10 years of being hospitalized. Is it a hacker or slash?

SPEAKER_01 28:37

Let's just set aside the fact that Michael Myers is kind of a superhuman in this film. And yes, that happened, but I mean he's no Jason Voorhees, thank goodness. He didn't like get struck by magic lightning and turn into the Hulk or anything, so we don't have to worry about that. But he was he was kind of obscenely strong and powerful. So but put that to the side. The rest of the movie, though, we get some great characters, we actually get a like a decent story and some fun kind of one-off characters, too. And then we get a traditional slasher. We have the kitchen knife being wielded by this awesome, tall, shadowy figure slinking and teleporting all around, which I don't know. I I kind of enjoy it. I think we get enough action and enough of a fast enough pace where we don't get bored, but it's not too much, it's not overwhelming, it's not overloading or anything. So I think it's a slash. I think it's just a a plain and simple, decent slasher movie and a good Michael Myers movie. It's not the best, obviously, because you can't you can't beat the best, and it's not the worst either. It's not meh, it's a good one. Um, so yeah, it's a slash, you should watch it.

SPEAKER_06 29:42

So I feel almost exactly the same as Mac. It uh is certainly not like a movie where I'm like, oh my god, this is amazing. You guys have to watch this. And it's not necessarily uh groundbreaking because we know who Michael Myers is, we know what he's here for. He's here for the stabbing, and that's all. Kind of like Brady. I think Jamie really carries this movie, and I I care a little bit about the other characters, but none of them really like blew me away. And you know we get a lot of Dr. Loomis, and you know, it's just okay, but Jamie is so good. And there's the thing where you some people are inclined to just like Michael Myers, and I'm also one of those people, and I enjoy the little, you know, Halloween night chase. I don't know. It's not remarkable, but it's really good. It's pretty good. It's a a slash.

SPEAKER_03 30:33

I'm one of those people that default to liking this movie just because Michael Myers is in it. Um this is one of the ones I usually stop at because I feel like after this they kind of get a little bit more crazy. Oh boy, that's an understatement. So usually I'm like, okay, um, I'm done for now. Um, I don't know. This movie, like, truly, and I think all of them, especially the first one, the second one, the third one, even though he's not in it, and this one really like give me all the Halloween feels. Like it, it's truly something I've been looking forward to. I mean, I love some of the movies that we've reviewed this month, but this is like the one that I'm like, oh wow, I feel like I'm in Halloween. I was kind of feeling not good about the other movies. I was like, I need to get in this spirit. Kind of it's like a Christmas spirit, you know, when people like aren't in it and people are like, put up lights, make cookies.

SPEAKER_02 31:23

It's the spooky spirit.

SPEAKER_03 31:25

Yes, and that's how I feel about these movies. I can watch them and I'm just instantly in the mood. The music, this, and I'm so glad that they carry that over. I had some strife with the mask, but you know, it it is what it is. Um, a little stiffed. I don't know what was going on. Maybe someone needs to loosen up before uh they went out killing.

SPEAKER_02 31:44

Gotta break in the hockey pads.

SPEAKER_03 31:45

Yes, exactly. Uh, you guys are talking about um Jamie, but I really loved uh Rachel in this movie. I thought she was great. Um, I think their chemistry is really great. And I just also love how you see this transformation with Jamie. Like Jamie's picking up on these little nuances in the beginning of the movie. And then when you get to a certain spot, you kind of like feel bad, in my opinion, which is kind of the feeling I get with Michael Myers a little bit. So um, this movie is a total slash for me.

SPEAKER_06 32:12

Did it put you in the Halloween mood? That's what I need to know.

SPEAKER_03 32:15

It definitely did. It definitely did. And I'm finally like, I think I just got this off my chest. Like, I'm like, okay, whatever I was feeling for the past couple weeks, like I'm I'm I'm feeling good now. Now you're free.

SPEAKER_05 32:26

So as I've said, uh I've have watched four the first four Halloween movies in the past 10 days. Um, so I have been on a journey with this franchise. Having only seen the 2018 version previously, I felt like that movie kind of stood alone on its own, but it was it's been really enjoyable to kind of see the origin of so many things. Uh it's felt a lot like I've been looking at like old blueprints for things that I've been using like every day in my life, and I'm like, oh, so this is where it came from. That being said, it is kind of like Max said, like it's a it's a simple, straightforward, decent slasher. Um, it's not a bad movie at all. Um, it's kind of vanilla for me. Uh, and I imagine at the time this was wasn't vanilla at all, but it's gotten to a point where we've done so many things since this that this execution to me reads as kind of like default, kind of like the like the standard, and I prefer like more of a deviation or like a twist. Um, there were some things that I really enjoyed in this movie. There were some excellent kills, uh, there were some excellent characters, but there were also some things that I really didn't like. Like there's a a semi-significant element of this movie involving like a group of people that really did nothing for me. And every time we were brought back to that storyline, I was like, uh, what's going on here and why? Just get me back to Jamie and like that because that was such a strong aspect of this movie. Um, so ultimately, I am gonna give this a hack. I do feel that I am better equipped to be on this podcast. Having watched all of these movies, I feel like I have a better source of reference and a better background. So if you haven't seen these, watch them at least once. Um, but this isn't gonna go into my like Rolodex of like faves. So it's getting a hack.

SPEAKER_02 34:10

Surprise. Things have turned out better. I knew there was no way in hell that Parrish wasn't going to hack this movie if he would have, in theory, maybe not looked as favorably upon the originals. Who knows? Who knows? We'll see when we get to rewind those episodes one day. So I have a a lot of gripes about this movie, and I think by having those gripes at face value, it can seem like I have a lot to say that disparages it. Michael Myers being a disappointment is a huge knock. It really is. And I understand that, but the thing the thing is for me, Michael Myers at his worst, except for you, Rob Zombie, is still better for me personally than Jason Voorhees at his best. Regardless of the missteps this takes, it still feels like it's of a higher caliber for me than a lot of the Friday the 13th entries we get, because those just feel like cheap knockoffs most of the time. Where Michael stumbles, like the rest of this cast triumphs and like it keeps the movie in float afloat, mainly Daniel Harris and Ellie Cornell, who plays Rachel. The Halloween franchise is, again, a choose a choose your own adventure in a sense. And I often find that no matter which way I go, this one still winds up in my rotation on Halloween Day. Now, this movie, in in spite of its small flaws, is a total slash. And I'll leave you with this thought. This movie is so special to a lot of people, in spite of its low ratings. I know I think it's like 29% on Rotten Tomatoes, which seems ridiculously low. My oldest brother told me that he and my sister thought Halloween 2 was the end of Michael Myers, and they didn't see or hear about this movie back in the day until they saw it playing on TV one year. So when they saw it, it was like this like, what? What have we been missing? What do you mean he's back? And it was like this incredible experience. They were so excited for his return, and that meant that all the nitpicky stuff that I've shared so far didn't phase them, and it's it's always gonna have a special place in their hearts. Michael Myers is Michael Myers for a lot of people, and to a lot of people, myself included, that's enough. And with that, Halloween four, the return of Michael Myers has earned four slashes and one hack. So we have some stuff to get to, including the production issues that plagued this movie, and there's some some complicum moments with some of the effects that we're gonna get to in a bit. So check this out. You can find it streaming on Shudder. Again, you can find it somewhere on AMC. It's on there at Fear Fest all month long. Check it out and join us in the second half so we can get done in business. See you in a bit.

SPEAKER_00 36:34

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SPEAKER_02 37:15

Welcome back, folks. You are now entering the spoiler zone for Halloween 4, The Return of Michael Myers. The 1988 film has earned four slashes and one hack, and we have a lot to get to here. Now, one of the interesting things about this movie is that they sought to make it in the bloodless spirit of the original, but even then they couldn't hold back from working some more gore in there. So, Alexis, what's the gore score for this movie?

SPEAKER_03 37:39

Yeah, they definitely added a lot, in my opinion, compared to like other movies I had seen in this franchise. But I don't know. I think for what you see in the time frame, I think it's like it's it's back down the middle, in my opinion. Like some things you get, they're like super intense, and then you know, you get these like weird scenes. I don't know. I just I thought there was more blood than I was used to in any Michael Myers movies that I can recall. But some of the deaths were really gory. My favorite death, not the goriest, but the probably the most shocking, um, is definitely when Kelly gets killed. Because I think you're like, okay, he's got this shotgun, he's gonna kill her. And it's it's crazy because I would never think Michael Myers would shoot anyone. So I was like, what's happening here, right? Is he gonna really shoot? Like, this is different. And then when she gets, you know, that whole shotgun and up onto the freaking door, that's like my favorite kill. You see it in all of them, you see it in the 2018, and I'm just like, this is amazing. I I just love he has he's got the signature kill, and you know, it's not just a knife kill, okay?

SPEAKER_02 38:44

Yeah, she got impaled.

SPEAKER_03 38:45

Yeah, I know. Would you say she got the pipe she was looking for? Probably. I mean, clearly she never finished it in front of the fire, so she got some God bless us.

SPEAKER_01 38:57

They broke the rule. You know, if you're in a horror movie and you start getting things a little bit hot and bothered, you're going next. Come on, kids, learn your lesson.

SPEAKER_06 39:06

That's true. You knew she was going. You were like, listen, this girl didn't even bother putting pants on, she's done for. I will say, of course, that's an amazing death, and it's hard to uh not have all of us answering the exact same things, you know. There sometimes there is just a best death in the movie. Yeah. I would say that's it. My alternative favorite is actually Michael. We have like this posse, you know, all pulling out their guns, and uh all the guns have their own, like I don't know. Something about the guns in this movie are very interesting because some of them sound like this is like a 1920s Western. I don't even know if those exist. And then some of them sound like this is like 2000 CGI guns, like I don't know. It's very interesting. Anyway, they have you know a plethora of people shooting at Michael, and he's just taking it all as he always does. And then, of course, like we you you're just sitting there kind of wondering if he's gonna if anything's gonna happen to him, and he ends up in a hole and according to Dr. Loomis, he's returned to hell, but which of course, does he ever really die? No. Um, so technically not really my favorite kill, but my favorite attempt. How about that? Yeah, your favorite instance of attempted murder. Yes, exactly. Sometimes they're better.

SPEAKER_05 40:17

Ryan, was it me or was one of those guns shooting out like liquid magma?

SPEAKER_06 40:22

There were so many strange things. Like the gun that Sheriff Meeker had, I was like, what is this gun? I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 40:29

Yeah, it was like a missile gun with like a lot of like lava spray coming out of it.

SPEAKER_06 40:34

Yeah, yeah. I don't know enough about guns to say it made sense or didn't make sense, but there were just a lot of different personalities, you know?

SPEAKER_01 40:41

Pretty sure the sheriff had a shotgun. It's a different type of shotgun than you used to see.

SPEAKER_06 40:44

It was like a rocket shotgun.

SPEAKER_01 40:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 40:47

Not to be dramatic, but I mean that's what it felt like.

SPEAKER_05 40:50

Uh Alexis totally took my favorite kill as well. Kelly being impaled and pinned to the door with a blunt shotgun is a total gag. Um, and probably one of my favorite deaths in the whole franchise thus far. Um, but runner up goes to Earl. Uh, he gets just Michael's fingers dug into his neck and just kind of shredded in a way that I wasn't expecting a human hand to be capable of. But of course, this is Michael Myers we're talking about. Um, that was in like the truck scene that I was kind of like, it was a little dicey for me overall. But then when that happened, I was like, ooh, okay, and then just flung him right out of the truck onto the road. And I was like, yeah, that's that's not a cute way to go, but it was certainly satisfying.

SPEAKER_06 41:31

That one was a little reminiscent of what we got in Halloween three in the hospital. Reaching in, just breaking something. Oh, yeah. Unnecessary hand strength, also. Very specific.

SPEAKER_02 41:40

Not unnecessary hand strength. There is a kill in Friday the 13th where Jason squishes a man's head so hard that his eyeball pops out. That also is unnecessary hand strength.

SPEAKER_01 41:51

No, that's not necessary. There is a kill that that Jason executes where he picks up a dude and punches his head clean off.

SPEAKER_03 41:59

What? Are you kidding me?

SPEAKER_01 42:01

It comes off like a mannequin.

SPEAKER_03 42:03

This is awesome.

SPEAKER_01 42:04

I gotta say, my favorite kill was Bucky because it was so ridiculous. You know, hey, what are you doing? I'm gonna call the cops. Don't go anywhere. And then he just like picks him up and throws him into a transformer. Like, no big deal. But it was a good reason for there to be no power in the town. Like, you know, good storying there, writers.

SPEAKER_02 42:20

Yeah, I actually love Bucky's death. It's one of my favorites in the franchise because it's so efficient. Like two birds, one stone, or really one transformer. And you're doing multiple things, Michael. He was there for a purpose.

SPEAKER_06 42:32

And if there's nothing Chris loves, it's efficiency. You know my soul.

SPEAKER_05 42:35

I was definitely wondering when Michael got there. I was like, he's looking for this little girl. What is he doing here? And then it happened, and I was like, okay, he's preparing for what he's about to do. He's being really thorough here.

SPEAKER_01 42:47

Look, this just proves that he's a Decepticon because he was looking for Transformers.

SPEAKER_02 42:51

Whoa, whoa, whoa. You have to go for that. Now, one of the interesting things though is that, and Alexis, I'm curious to what you thought about this one. Everybody still felt like there needed to be more blood, more gore. So they actually had to go back and modify a lot of things. One of which was the thumb kill in the beginning of the movie, which I feel leaves a bad taste in my mouth for like the brute strength of Michael. I can take Michael magically lifting someone with a scalpel or impaling someone to a door with a knife or a shotgun. But what I can't do is a thumb through the skull, personally.

SPEAKER_03 43:26

Yeah, that was a little a little excessive. I wish they would have taken like some of the other ones. Like you see a lot of these like off-screen desks, you have these um characters that stumble onto bodies, and I think that would have been an easier way just to add um a little bit more gore, especially um you have that one officer that was watching them. And then I don't even know what was going on, but there was like a hand by the head on the other side. It was confusing on what I was looking at, but I that probably would have been a good kill. I don't know. I just feel like he would have been a little bit more destructive and more like himself, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_02 43:57

See, one of the things that I loved though was at the police station. Where there is so much carnage, but you see almost none of it except for like the body of one guy, and there's supposed to be multiple officers who are dead in there. But I love seeing the chaos of Michael and the aftermath of Michael more than I think I need to see the actual event happening.

SPEAKER_06 44:18

The turnedover chairs were like, oh okay, cool. There was really something that happened here, but I really wanted to be like I wanted to know. Because we kind of got the same thing at the uh gas station. There's a like old-timey word for that, but the gas station. Kind of get the same thing where we just find these bodies, and it's like sometimes I wanted to see it.

SPEAKER_01 44:37

But sometimes you don't want to see it, like watching his hands rip into someone's neck. Like, do I I don't need to see that happen.

SPEAKER_06 44:44

This is what separates you and Chris from the rest of us, yes.

SPEAKER_01 44:48

But I would have preferred like uh the use of a weapon of some sort to make that happen, you know, just picking up someone's head and squishing it, ripping your hands into someone's neck and just like tearing it apart. Like, come on. Uh like there's nothing wrong with Gore, but I would have preferred him to make use of some resources to make that happen.

SPEAKER_02 45:04

No, that's just not his style, man. Ah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 45:08

I I feel like it is.

SPEAKER_02 45:09

If he's not strangling, he's stabbing.

SPEAKER_06 45:11

Right, right, right. Not to use weapons, but to use things as weapons. Yeah, okay.

unknown 45:15

Right.

SPEAKER_01 45:15

When he's I mean, when he's like throwing people off the truck, like that seems more Michael Myers to me than like I'm gonna reach in and like rip your face apart.

SPEAKER_06 45:22

Yeah, agree. Well, he was tied up. He could only strengthen his hands. It is what it is.

SPEAKER_02 45:27

One of the other deaths I really loved though was actually Brady's death. One, I felt like he got what he was what was coming to him, but he did try to like redeem himself a bit for being your typical shitty. I'm you know, testing out the waters of being a player. Uh, and I clearly only have one thing on my mind tonight. But to see him try and fumble and then not be able to shoot Michael, but then for Michael to just push him away and then just casually throw the gun over the side of the stairs, because he doesn't need to do to Brady what he did to Kelly. I love that, just like the impending doom you know, you see that he's got Brady in his grasp, his neck is going to snap, his skull is gonna be crushed, and there's nothing you can do to stop it. But it still lingers there, and I loved it.

SPEAKER_03 46:09

Yeah, that was really powerful because I think he's just like, uh no, uh, I don't need this. Do you not know who I am? Do not need a gun for any of this. It's just an accessory uh that I don't need right now because I need both my hands to go around your neck and uh choke the shit out of you.

SPEAKER_01 46:24

I thought he was gonna throw him through the window. Like the framing in that shot, I was a hundred percent for sure that he was gonna pick him up and just toss him through and he's just gonna snap on the way down.

SPEAKER_06 46:33

Exclusively dramatic backlighting. I thought he was gonna go rogue and actually use the gun, and I was fully prepared for everyone to be like, What's happening? Why did he use a gun? It just seems like something you would do in the fourth installment of a movie, you know, just completely change someone's character in that way.

SPEAKER_01 46:47

Speaking of drama, I mean, mentioning like the dramatic backlight, there was just some interesting, like weird little one-offs throughout the movie, like the reverend in the truck. I don't know why I found that so like weird, but I also just found it really entertaining for no apparent reason. Like, do we get to see that character anymore? Like in future installments at all?

SPEAKER_02 47:06

We don't, but he was supposed to, in the novelization of this movie, he comes back and does not have a fun end.

SPEAKER_01 47:13

Oh, what a missed opportunity.

SPEAKER_03 47:15

Yikes. Um, my favorite, and I know you mentioned this before, Mac, is definitely when Jamie um gets or finds the costume in the store. Because I think it's really cool. You're in this room and you're like, what's going on? But then you see the Michael Myers mask behind her, and you're like, okay, she's gonna turn around and see this. Like, and I don't recall seeing this part of the movie. I feel like I've seen this a whole bunch of times, but this part like totally throws me off. But you see this costume come up before in this franchise. Um, you see it in undoubtedly um a good movie, I think, in my opinion, which is the uh Rob Zombie one. Conflicting opinions here. Very conflicting. One day we'll review it. It'll be a cold day in hell. But I just love how they take this, you know, monumental, like kind to me, it seemed like a monumental like part of the movie, and it was just so gripping. And then you see this flashback, like or not flashback, but like this look of Michael in the same costume, and I just found that really like like powerful.

SPEAKER_06 48:17

Yeah, I agree. I really liked that scene. Um, and then it was just it was cool for her to be in the costume store, but then also the way like like like you said, it flashes between Mike and everything. That was really awesome. And actually, my scene is kind of similar to Max, where it's just like a little mine's even smaller, mine's even less of a thing, even though I actually hated the Reverend bit. I was just like, what is this and what are we doing? Um, for me, it's when they Dr. Loomis and the sheriff pull up in the car, grab the girls, get him in the back of the car, and then Dr. Loomis sees Michael Myers, and then sees Michael Myers, and then sees Michael Myers, and I'm just like, oh man, the neighborhood kids are totally just messing with them. And it was just a little small thing, but it was one of those those things that seemed like it was gonna make the sheriff completely like doubt Dr. Loomis and everything. Um, I enjoyed that so much, just as like a little funny moment, like, ha, we got you, we're out.

SPEAKER_05 49:14

I enjoyed that too, Ryan. He's still behind you. Yeah, I enjoyed that too. Um, that was actually the thing I was talking about before where there were a couple moments that kind of scared me a little bit, and it related to uh them sort of breaking the rules of Michael Myers in that there was more than one of him. Uh so in the beginning we have that dream sequence with Jamie, uh, and I was like, okay, this there's we see Michael over there on that side of the bed, and that's what I know to be true. And she opens the door, and Michael's on the other side of the door. And I was like, wait, what though? Uh and I was pretty scared because I was like, what the fuck is going on? Um, and then it was like, okay, it's a dream. And then later they do that same thing, and I was like, how are they gonna get me twice with the same fake out? But they did. Once I saw like the fourth and the fifth one, I was like, okay, this is some kind of bullshit with the with the local kids.

SPEAKER_01 49:57

But it's such a fitting thing for there to be like copycats of Michael Myers that I could definitely imagine where they would just retcon everything by saying it was all copycats. And I'd probably be okay with that if they're getting rid of like bad installments.

SPEAKER_05 50:14

But copycats with superhuman hand strength, I don't think. But my favorite scene though was actually also related to Jamie and similar to Alexis's. Um, because I feel like one thing that that uh costume store scene really did well was bringing the camera down to Jamie's level and making you feel like you're a small child in a big store. Um, but my favorite scene was actually when Jamie was in school and being bullied by like the meanest children in the entire world. Um, because it really like brought me back to when I was being bullied at that age. I know big shock there, but I was a victim of childhood torment. But it was so venomous, those children and the things that they were saying. They were like, your uncle's the boogeyman, your mom's dead, ha ha. And I was like, that's so rude. And she just like gets out of there and she removes herself from the situation and she like puts herself against a tree and she's like, get a hold of yourself. And I was just like, oh my god, what like an evolved little child to be able to like portray so much like complex emotion in such a small scene.

SPEAKER_02 51:12

Giving herself a pep talk?

SPEAKER_05 51:13

Yeah, just like she had a lot of self-awareness in that moment, and I was like, Oh, I feel you, girl.

SPEAKER_06 51:18

To be fair, her uncle is the boogeyman. Not to be this person here, not to be on the side of the bullies, but I'm just saying, choose things, okay? There's a lot going on.

SPEAKER_01 51:27

The nightmare man. That's a great movie title unto itself.

SPEAKER_06 51:30

That's nightmare on I'm shit. He is the nightmareman. Don't try to take a pretty different franchise, Mac.

SPEAKER_01 51:36

They literally referred to him as the nightmare man when they're when they're talking to her in the film. I think it's great.

SPEAKER_02 51:41

Absolutely. And that I think that moment, Paris, actually points out everybody loves the 80s until you remember just how shitty kids were. Yeah. Like a hundred percent. Like kids are already toxic and nasty to each other. When they're toxic and nasty to each other back in a time when you can literally do anything you want and no one really is gonna care, yeah, that's a problem. It made me sad. Yeah. But Danielle Harris, that moment is such a a big deal for her character, only because it shows just how mature she was as an actress at such a young age. There are two things that really stand out to me in terms of scenes, and and she's in one of them. But before we get there chronologically, it's the first time we hear the Halloween theme. It's super special to me. So Alan Howarth he wanted to hold back. So he inherited the music. He'd worked with John Carpenter in the previous films. He was a friend of him, and they hired him for this movie to give continuity between like the sound and the atmosphere of the first two films. He wanted to like put his stamp on it. I think one of the best decisions he made was waiting until you can see Michael Myers being free from that federal sanitarium. And just to hear the theme start going as you as they're wheeling him out, you know shit's about to go down. But there's no better scene for me than the dream hallucination scene we get with Michael and Jamie's bedroom. That classic fear of someone, the boogeyman in particular, grabbing you from under the bed, the lightning flashing as he sits up on the side of the bed. It's terrifying.

SPEAKER_05 53:06

Chills.

SPEAKER_02 53:07

And anyone who watched this movie the first time, when it came out, you had no idea how long Jamie was gonna last in this movie. Like she could have been easily dispatched right there. And honestly, Michael Myers nabbing kids from under the bed post-prayer is the stuff of children's nightmare. She's totally right to call him the nightmare man.

SPEAKER_03 53:24

Oh, yeah. That's so crazy because um that is also visually my favorite scene. I think there's just like this. It's a one time I actually kind of like this mask because there's this person just coming out of it underneath the bed and sitting straight up, and you're like, what the hell? You know, and it you're right, it is terrifying. I feel like it is something that's when I was a kid, you know, you'd run and then jump on the bed and like not but near the edge, and then you jump off. Like that was my thing.

SPEAKER_02 53:50

It like prepares you for track and field for the long jump.

SPEAKER_03 53:53

Yes, exactly, exactly. I had one of those beds that have the poles in the corners.

SPEAKER_05 53:58

Oh, you were fancy.

SPEAKER_03 53:59

I was a little spoils when I was a kid, but then I jump on and then swirl on the thing and like use it like kind of like a Tarzan move. Dive on the bed. Let me tell you how loose those things got when I was a kid.

SPEAKER_02 54:10

This is so on brand for Alexis. It's like I'm not even surprised.

SPEAKER_05 54:14

Alexis in her childhood princess bed.

SPEAKER_02 54:16

Yes, exactly. Alexis, I think one of the reasons why I love that scene and probably why it stands out for you, right? Is that scene is an is an example, a shining example of how well this movie does its lighting. Michael's mask is a problem for me, but this movie like manipulates its lighting so well to make it work in certain moments in spite of its flaws. He's at his best in darkness. So the shots we get after the power's uh power goes out are like chef's kiss worthy. And my favorite shot is actually like a really small, subtle one. Did you guys notice when Rachel goes down to talk to Deputy Logan and you know she goes to start walking away, this is when Deputy Logan is still alive. In the left corner, there's a subtle little flash of his face. So like he's like off in the distance and you see his mask illuminate and then just disappears back into the shadow, and then Deputy Logan kind of leans forward, like, did I see something there? Little moments like that where they just you know reveal his face in total darkness.

SPEAKER_01 55:15

I absolutely loved that is oh so on point, Chris. I'm so glad you mentioned that because like it's so quick that people could either miss it or just like brush it off as not a big deal.

SPEAKER_03 55:25

I missed it.

SPEAKER_01 55:26

It's it's one of those things that's like in it's like in Jaws when you get those moments, you know, where you just see like a little bit of the shark, and it's just like those little tastes that that really drive the fear further because it like flashes, it's in the back of your mind, even if you don't realize it, and then it like fully realizes on screen seconds later or minutes later. So yeah, that's I god, I I love the fact that you pointed that out.

SPEAKER_06 55:49

Yeah, I would say the like lighting and the shots that we get in this movie are so good that I actually don't have a specific visual element that I loved. I just enjoyed watching this movie, and there's so many things that I think could have taken me out of this movie easily, and the the way it's filmed, the way it feels like a Halloween movie, the way it sounds like a Halloween movie, the lighting, stuff like that. That's the stuff that really kept me in here and didn't make me bored. It didn't make me feel like I've just waiting and waiting for another kill. It it made me feel wrapped up in it, and and I I loved it. It was so good.

SPEAKER_01 56:26

I was very impressed with how they were able to work in a town that was in complete darkness due to the power being out, but it didn't feel like it's being shot inside of a dark room and there happens to only be like a lamp turned on or anything like that. There still seemed to be enough ambient light from like the little kerosene lamps or whatever they were walking around with from the streetlights outside to where it gave it this kind of deathly glow everywhere through most of the movie that I definitely appreciated.

SPEAKER_06 56:54

I would argue that in some places I was like, There's not enough light in that room for what we're seeing right now. But you know, it's a movie. Disbelief is suspended.

SPEAKER_05 57:04

I can definitely agree. There were some times where I felt like there wasn't enough light, and other times where I felt like there was just enough light to creep me out. Um, but my favorite visual uh also comes from my favorite scene that I mentioned earlier with uh Jamie getting bullied. Um and there's a shot as she's leaving the school, uh, and you see like all of the kids in their Halloween costumes like like walking behind her and tormenting her, and you see her like in her normal clothes, like fast walking away from them, and it's shot in slow motion, which I feel like was really intentionally used in that moment, and I felt like it was such a beautiful scene of just like this little girl like metaphorically running from her demons, uh, and I feel like it really set up that character for me. Um, but I do want to go back to the theme song that you mentioned earlier, Chris. I feel like there were a couple of like really great remixes of the of the theme in this go-round, and every time there was a new one with like a little bit of extra bass or like a little ts, ts, ts, I found myself kind of getting like a little dancy when I was watching it. But it actually like triggered a memory for me uh where when I was very little, my cousins and I, our moms were really into ABBA, and the song Mamma Mia starts out with like a very similar like piano riff to the Halloween theme. And I remember whenever that song would come out in our in the car, my cousins and I would just like scream because we were like, this is the scary movie song, and we would just like make them turn it off. Um, so that's how iconic that theme song is.

SPEAKER_02 58:23

I mean, you can always get down with Mamma Mia. That is that is excellent taste for a song to be played in the car.

SPEAKER_03 58:29

Yeah, I know. This definitely the score in this, it's I mean, it's uh it's so iconic. It's I mean, it's I'd never walked by the house that had this playing.

SPEAKER_05 58:38

It's Chris's house.

SPEAKER_06 58:40

I do play this regularly. Literally Chris's house. And her car and her home and her phone playing anything all the time. And while she's showering.

SPEAKER_01 58:48

I think if I if I made my house look scary for Halloween, I would definitely put a Michael Myers mannequin up in the window and then every now and then just have a little strobe light up the room as people walked by while playing this song.

SPEAKER_03 58:58

Well, you should do it here for Halloween. You get a chance one day.

SPEAKER_01 59:00

That's I mean, it's it's possible. I don't know if this year if people are gonna be really trick-or-treating.

SPEAKER_06 59:04

People will drive by your house, it's still creepy.

SPEAKER_01 59:06

All right, let's talk about fake Michael Myers though for a minute. Because my least favorite part in this movie was the good old boys shooting up good old uh good old Ted accidentally.

SPEAKER_02 59:19

Yeah. Oh god.

SPEAKER_01 59:20

Like they just open fire. The recklessness.

SPEAKER_02 59:24

It's not a Halloween movie if someone doesn't accidentally die, unrelated to the events of Michael Myers.

SPEAKER_01 59:29

But do they even see him? They're just like, oh, he's over there, I don't even see anything, and then oops, it's Ted Hollister, he's dead. And we all shot him 4,000 times.

SPEAKER_02 59:38

Yeah, I mean, they saw someone out after curfew and assumed that all the residents of Haddonfield, except for them, would be wise enough to be indoors.

SPEAKER_06 59:47

Yeah, Mac. That's something that it's funny. When I think about the best part, worst part, I was totally gonna say, oh, Michael's mask is the worst part for me, but I keep forgetting that this is actually the worst part to me. It's this gang of people just roaming around. Um, I think a good portion of it feels shels a certain way because it's 2020 about like a random group of white people roaming around in trucks and then accidentally shooting people. And then, like, obviously, we have the sheriff's daughter who has a very pro-cop shirt on and stuff like that. There's just some things that I definitely think 2020 affects the way you perceive them if this is your first time watching it. Oh, yeah. And I just hated that gang of people. Like, at first, when they were in the bar, it really seemed like they were gonna like do something. They were like, oh man, when you call the sheriff's office, if it doesn't ring, we gotta go help. But then they're just out killing random people in bushes. Also, why was Ted in the bushes? It was all very strange and I did not enjoy it. I understand why it's there. I understand it's a small town, and my issues with it are not necessarily because they're, you know, unrealistic or shouldn't have been in the movie or anything. I just didn't care for it.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:55

Yeah. I actually had that as one of those things that, you know, I could have done away with a long time ago. But the more I've watched it, it's like a subtle moment where you realize how disconnected some people in the town are to what happened in the first film. Dr. Loomis coming back could have seemed real crazy. You know, Sheriff Meeker made the choice to listen to him and just err on the side of caution, which is a good thing, but you don't have Sheriff Brackett to, you know, be there to champion the this whole like, we need to steer clear of Michael. This motherfucker's gotta die. Like, there's like very little of that. So when you get that group of guys, I think it's less like you're right, like roaming around in a c in a car, being able to shoot people. I think honestly that's just a mechanic to get Sheriff Meeker out of the house. But there's a moment where they reveal that one of the characters, Al, his son, died in the original murders. And it just adds to the gravity of like this is the trauma that is on the town now. Like they seem like generally nice guys, and they're all just like realizing the horror and the monstrosity of Michael Myers, and they want to do something to stop it.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:00

I love that you mentioned that, Chris, because I was reminded of the scene in the second Halloween where you have like the angry mob outside of like the old house and they're like throwing bricks and they're all just like really angry because they're frustrated with like what's happened to their community. But for me, the the problem was just like these men are all drunk and now they're in cars with guns. And I was like, I feel less safe with you out there than I do with Michael out there. Um but you're right, it definitely served as like a mechanism to get the cops uh out and about. Um, but I will say my favorite part of this movie, um, despite the problems that I had with it, it actually, as far as like a movie that I've hacked, this was probably the easiest to come up with a favorite part because there's a lot that I did like. Um, but it had to be the ending. And I'm I'm talking about the end end when we find out that Jamie, something in her, uh, wants to kill, and she kills uh her mother guardian figure uh with the scissors, and then you see her at the top of the stairs holding them covered in blood in the clown costume. And I was like, this is the movie I want to watch. I want to see this as like the first scene of the movie. Uh now I realize I'm talking about Halloween one, but I would love to see that storyline play out further. So I really hope we get something like that in Halloween five.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:12

Ooh, okay. I'm interested to see how you feel once you do watch Halloween five and see the direction that they go with things. And I do think it's fair to say, presumably killed, but definitely attacked with the scissors. Definitely attacked.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:24

Ah, yeah, that's fair. We didn't get to see it, which I was also a little like, oh, show me.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:28

There is footage of it. So they did film that scene and they filmed it in the style of the original uh movie where it's she you see everything happening through the clown mask eyes.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:38

I love that.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:38

I think the biggest thing for me was this, you know, in certain situations, uh Michael's mask in this looked great, but most of the time it just looked it it wasn't something I was used to, and it kind of just I don't know, it turned me off. It was no longer doing it for you. That mask was not doing it for me, I'll tell you that for sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:58

Especially when it became blonde.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:59

Yes, when it came become had eyebrows. What was going on with this thing? He looked very like sad.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:05

I'm glad you mentioned the blonde hair because did you also notice that it was pink?

SPEAKER_05 1:04:09

Well, it was pink. The mask was pink, the mask itself?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:12

The mask itself was pink. Oh yeah, the mask itself was pink and the hair was blonde. So that was a production snafu, right? So the original Halloween mask we all know is is made from like a it's altered and modified from a William Shatner mask that was made by Dompost Studios.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:29

Rude.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:30

Dompost Jr. provided that mask, and one of the makeup technicians, Ken Horn, was like, Hmm, that's not right, but we can work around it, right? Like we can modify this mask and make it work. So he gets hired for the job. He goes to do his other stuff, like making the effects and the makeup for Dr. Loomis. He gets on set, pulls out a box of six masks, and they're all pink with blonde hair. So that is like a last-minute oh shit kind of situation. And he had to work to modify the mask because there's no time to recreate it. So he had to spray paint it all white and then dial the hair uh brown, which is why you get like these weird texture issues. But because he also wasn't the person who modified the original mask, he didn't do things like remove the sideburns and remove the eyebrows. And he used like too much paint instead of like a fine mist to get the get it to be this stark white. So it ends up looking like super bumpy.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:24

Why um did they get rid of the original mask? Like, I'm confused. Wouldn't that be something that'd be passed along?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:31

So it's not something that would be intentionally thrown out, right? But so the original film was in 78. That original mask got then put into like storage and Deborah Hill had it, and she was a smoker. It was like due to age and environment, it got like really yellowed and all that. That's why you see that mask look that way in Halloween 2.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:48

Oh no.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:49

That is like the literal mask. Then, of course, this is like seven years later. So a lot of time has passed, and that mask was, I believe, given to Dick Warlock. It just disappeared. So they had to recreate a mask.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:01

It just seems so important for the mask. Yeah. Why would you throw that away? Yeah. Like, really, of all the details, that's the one that needs to stay the same. You know?

SPEAKER_05 1:06:12

And also just like poor William Shatner in all of this.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:16

What? This is, if anything, the most glorious that William Shatner is, you know? No shame to William Shatner.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:23

This is his claim to fame, his legacy.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:25

So that schoolhouse scene in particular, the reason why you see the blonde hair in there, the director says it's because at 4 a.m. when they're like have had a really long day shooting, somebody went to the prop van and grabbed the wrong mask. And because it was so late and everybody was like dead tired, nobody caught it. That's crazy. Why would they even keep any that aren't fixed? Why would they even be, you know what I mean? To be able to probably just remake it in case something happens to it. That's chaotic. I don't like it. Like I said, that guy, Ken Horn, had a hell of a time on this production. So there is even a point where they're like, oh yeah, we want you to right now, in the middle of shooting, make the eye holes bigger. And he's like, I can't do that because there are three minutes to do it, and the glue wouldn't dry, it'd harm the actor who was playing him. So the stunt man who played Michael at the time and the makeup technician got into this huge argument, stood their ground, and they both got fired. Oh the technician, the makeup technician ended up coming back, but the first stunt man ended up getting let go, and he's only in like three scenes in the film. So they switched actors mid-film.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:30

Wow. At least William Shatner's in pretty good spirit about it though, because uh apparently in an entertainment weekly interview he said, All I can tell you is they found it somewhere in a toy store or something. I don't have a piece of the film. Maybe you can negotiate it for me. When my kids were younger and they'd go trick-or-treating, I would go with them, I'd wear the mask. If people didn't give them candy, I'd take off the mask and blow a kiss.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:50

So creepy. Despite my issues with the mask, it still wasn't the worst part for me. This is actually the worst part, and I think it's because it's like a logical fallacy. We have a kid who plays young Michael in this movie, right? So it's he's at the drugstore, it's like a little flashback of connection. If you remember, Jamie has a shoebox of old family photos, and it's mostly, you know, pictures of Lori. There is a picture of young Michael wearing a clown costume in that box, and it makes no sense that it's there.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:16

Wait, why? Did Lori have one?

SPEAKER_02 1:08:18

She was adopted and didn't know they were related.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:21

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:21

So there's literally no reason that Jamie should have a picture of the younger version of her homicidal boogeyman uncle.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:30

Huh.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:31

I don't know. I mean, this movie, I just I'm confused on like the time passing from Lori having a daughter.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:39

Like they just gloss over it.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:41

Yeah, and I think it was just like, hey, she has a daughter.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:43

It's been 10 years.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:44

Yeah, in 10 years. And I'm like, this is interesting and confusing, but I'm just gonna go with the flow. Like, whatever.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:50

Well, obviously, she just went through all the murderous experience with her brother and then was fine and got into a relationship and had a kid and then died. That's pretty that's very quickly.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:02

She said, forget therapy. I'm just gonna find a man and have sex with them.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:06

Well, you know, I don't think it's she said that.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:10

But then is it also that Lori died, or is it that like her that Jamie's like foster parents told her that she died because maybe what actually happened is worse? Because I feel like they left it kind of like vague.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:21

Of course they did, because there's more movies where she comes back.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:25

Presumably.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:26

That's what I was waiting for. I was waiting for Jamie Lee to come back and be like, my baby.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:30

If only, right? So the the shitty part is that when H2O came around, it erased four, five, and six.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:37

Oh, damn. There's so many ways you can watch this.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:42

They have restarted the franchise multiple times.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:44

It's the Michael Myers multiverse. The Michael verse. I mean, in this one, she had a daughter. In in H2O, she had a son, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:09:52

Yeah, she had Josh Hartnett.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:53

Yeah. She didn't have a son, she had Josh Hartnett, get it right.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:57

She had Josh Hartnett.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:58

He came out a fully born, fully adult Josh Hartnett.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:02

Choppy hair.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:03

It's disgusting.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:04

It's not disgusting. He's cute. You didn't have a little crush on him back then? No, he's not my type.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:10

He's super cute.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:10

I do feel like we're missing a little bit of Jamie Lee Curtis in this film. I mean, we get some of that being channeled, right? Like through a younger actress, which is pretty great, but we're kind of missing what she brings to a Halloween film. Um I I still enjoy obviously the performance we get, and I think we get a really great character with Jamie. And I think what really perfects it is partnering up with Rachel. I think the two of them as a team, where it's like, oh, this is like my adoptive sister, and yeah, we're still a bit weird about that whole thing. Um I think like the two of them working together is really what brings the character game up to up to a 10 here.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:49

I agree. I don't think I quite had the love affair that you guys had with Rachel. Ugh. Yeah, I know, Chris. I can feel it from across the states. I can feel your love affair. She was cool, but she also made some poor decisions in men. And um, you know, it is what it is. I liked her. I just did not fall in love with her like you, Chris.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:08

I'm with you there, Ryan, for sure. I didn't really love Rachel. Um, and there's a specific moment where I was like, I don't like that. Uh, and it's the moment where her and Kelly are in the kitchen, and you know, they kind of like actually start talking about like how Kelly had sex with Brady and uh Brady and uh Rachel had a thing going on and she knew that. Um and Kelly says to her, she's like, Listen, like you have to like the sooner you figure out like that men are like this and do things like this, the better off you're gonna be. And Rachel kind of just like gets mad and like throws hot coffee at Kelly, and I was like, ew, don't do that.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:45

She deserved it. Kelly did deserve it, and also deserved to change clothes, and that was the way of getting her to put a bra on.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:53

I don't think Kelly deserved hot coffee for telling Rachel like it is. Her boyfriend was scum. The sooner she figured that out, the better.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:59

I think the bigger problem is that her boyfriend was scum and that Rachel shouldn't be expected to reduce the quality of her character to like shenanigans that Kelly's pulling.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:08

But also Kelly was not being a kind person about it. And she was yeah, clearly Kelly was not an innocent party here. She wasn't just like, oh, I had no idea. I mean, she did say that, but she clearly knew. And so, like, they were making out in her store like an hour before this. So it's not like Kelly was innocent. Kelly deserved the coffee, okay? And it wasn't that hot. She didn't like scream.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:31

I think the coffee should have gone towards Brady before it went to Kelly. That's all I'm saying.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:35

I think they both deserved it. Well, we lost Brady through her out this entire movie. They all got killed. That's what's great.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:43

Rachel was exceptional for me, and I I definitely have no issue with the tactics that she took against Kelly because she confronted her. Because Rachel doesn't have to be a Kelly. Rachel doesn't have to strip down in front of a fireplace. Rachel doesn't have to, you know, hide that she's upset, that this guy that she's really interested in just blows her off and goes sleeps with someone else a couple hours after she has to cancel because she has to be a good big sister and take care of her younger adopted sister. Like that's it's unreasonable, I think, to expect any less of her. I feel like the strength in this movie is that it's so well cast, apart from Michael Myers, right? There isn't a single character who's out of place. And Ellie Cornell and Daniel Harris as Rachel and Jamie have this super great chemistry. And I think Rachel, in particular, you know, the actress who plays her was among a few different actresses auditioning for the role. And there was like this disagreement of who should be cast. So they actually had to come down to like a legit screening test where they had to film her in a scene, project it onto a large screen, and eventually the director won in his decision because he felt like she embodied the wholesomeness of Haddonfield. And that wholesomeness, I think, is what makes her so likable. And I think that wholesomeness would have been lost had she not had the type of confrontation she did with Kelly. She's wholesome, but she's gonna stand up for herself.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:58

And she knows how to rock a crop top sweater with some mom jeans.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:01

That sweater was pretty great. Yeah, it was. I didn't like the jeans so much or the whatever shoes she was wearing, I wasn't a fan of. But the crop top, the the crop sweater, you know, we love a crop sweater, we love a contradiction. It was pretty great.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:13

But I also think that that success of Rachel and how much I like her as a final girl alongside Jamie. I think that's part of why it's been an annual watch for me. I think she's one of the best final girls in the franchise behind Lori. You get some questionable characters later on as you go. But how about you folks? Do you think you'll ever watch this again?

SPEAKER_01 1:14:32

I think this should be part of the Halloween lineup. I haven't really honestly like the last couple Halloween, I've I've really missed out on getting into a good binge. And I think that's something we should we should all do. We should all get in that mood of it's it's Halloween, we're sitting at home eating all the candy, we're not giving it to anybody, and just watching some movies. And this, I think, rewatchability-wise, belongs in that yearly lineup, just like you, Chris.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:55

Hell yeah. Definitely. It's been in my lineup, and uh, it's usually where I stop. Maybe uh tonight I'll put on five and use it for bedtime. Like I don't know. It's weird. I mean, we all know I watch scary movies during the day while I'm getting ready for work. Maybe I'll switch it up.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:14

You're just a perfectly sane person. Nothing's wrong with that. Oh, I think this is great for like a one, two, three Halloween setup. If you are one of those people that likes to binge things, like you said, Mac. I'm not necessarily that person. I would watch it again. I'm not going to. I don't have plans to, but I would.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:32

Yeah, I don't know when my next Halloween marathon's gonna be. Um, but I can say that four will make the cut, three will not be included.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:41

That is a fair and respectable statement that I think so many people in the world agree with you on.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:46

Just so we're clear, I was saying you would watch one, two, and then four as one, two, three.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:51

It's so easy to erase three.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:53

Because it's a different movie. I also think that this is one of those good ones that like if you could carefully cut and remove things to use this as like flashback or like padding for one and two, you could do some really interesting stuff to cut together something for H2O. H2O does uh, you know, erase the four, five, and six from the canon, but it does reference a couple specific things that are mentioned in this movie. This could be good material to use in the future. So I I think it's you know, it's not among the very best of the best, but this is a quality film. What I'm more interested in hearing though is what Mac has for factor fiction, because there's a lot of material for it.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:32

There there's quite a bit. Let's see what I picked out. When Daniel Harris, as Jamie, ran through the streets at night screaming for help, someone living in that neighborhood actually called the police.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:43

I'm thinking fact. I'm gonna go fact as well, because this does feel like a real neighborhood.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:47

I'm gonna say fiction because there was a full film crew there. How did this these how did these people not know that there was a movie being made?

SPEAKER_06 1:16:55

Have you met old people?

SPEAKER_01 1:16:57

So oddly enough, this is a fact. She later said I was banging on doors, yelling for someone to help me, help me, after I got lost trick-or-treating or something. So four o'clock in the morning, they're hearing a little girl screaming up the streets, and someone called the cops. The cops came, then the story ended up in the inquirer that I was almost kidnapped off of the set.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:16

Oh my god. Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:18

That's pretty hardcore. Number two, the rooftop scene was especially tricky, as the roof was covered in dew. Daniel Harris somehow did all of her own stunts on the roof, with the exception of actually, you know, falling off of it. Ellie Cornell, who played Rachel, however, was injured by a protruding nail while she was sliding down the roof.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:34

Some point of that is not true. So, uh, fiction. I'm going fiction because it seemed real dry up there.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:40

I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:41

I'm also team fiction because for some reason when I was watching that, I was like, I feel like they had to make a fake roof on the ground to film this scene.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:48

That's a good thing that you point out there, because that actually did happen. However, this is a fact. So Ellie Cornell ended up going to the hospital, she gets bandaged up, gets back to work. Danielle Harris uh commented it didn't even phase her.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:01

So there was do? There was, yeah. Okay. So it was moist, basically.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:04

It was it was a moist roof.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:06

Guess I was wrong.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:07

But but you are right.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:08

The shame there, Pears, is that you would think that a nail wouldn't be sticking up because they just built it, but the nail was sticking up because they just did that.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:15

The level of unprofessional.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:16

I mean, have you met set builders?

SPEAKER_01 1:18:19

Number three, Alan B. McElroy, one of the film's story writers, said he became so bored after writing for an emotionless shape in this film that he joked about switching to writing romantic comedies.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:30

Fiction. Fact.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:31

Fact. Oh, it's a fiction. Come on. He had actually had fond memories of seeing Halloween 2 with friends in college and said the chance to bring the shape back to life was a dream come true for me.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:40

Come on, guys.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:41

Number four. Dwight H. Little, the director, had trouble getting Daniel Harris to cry over Jamie Lee Curtis's photo. He said he now regrets resorting to such measures, but he had George Wilbur surprise her while costumed as Michael Myers to create the tears we saw on screen.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:56

Fiction. Fiction. It sounds like it's all made up.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:59

Yeah, fiction. That girl was an Academy Award-winnering actress. It's fiction because he didn't, you know, use the whole Michael Myers thing, but he actually took her into the closet, sternly explained what was going on in the scene, then turn off the light and shut her in there. No regrets, no emotional scarring, but yeah, he actually did all that.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:16

Jeez.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:17

I don't like that one bit.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:18

She actually did have trouble coming to tears because she was so joyful.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:23

Sometimes you gotta, you know, gotta get it in the zone. In our last one tonight, you may notice that Dr. Loomis's scars are uh inconsistent throughout the film. Donald Pleasance accidentally tossed out the face scar after a long day of filming, and an imperfect copy had to be made that looked as close to possible as the original, but not not exactly.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:42

Yikes. I hope that's a good reason why that happened. So fact.

SPEAKER_06 1:19:46

I just have to say, one, I can't believe I didn't bring that up in the rest of the podcast because it was horrific how different his face scar was. Like he healed after 10 years, he healed in a week. I'm bringing it here now. Also, all of these things that we've brought up are making me very concerned about how this set was run. Because this seems like a quite simple prosthetic or something to impersonate to if something did happen. Um, but I'm gonna go fact because it seems true.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:12

I'm actually gonna say fiction because I feel like it was far worse than that because the thing never looked the same twice, so maybe they were done in such a way that they had to be disposable or something because the inconsistency.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:23

This is a fiction. While watching some dailies, Donald's girlfriend remarked that it looked like he had an egg on his face. After which the makeup team took a chill pill on the scars and some scenes were refilmed. However, not all the scenes were edited out, so you can spot a couple of those eggs on his face throughout the film.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:38

Oh, it's even worse.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:40

It is worse.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:42

It's the struggle of like them fixing it during the production, but then things getting mixed up footage-wise in the editing process, and that hurts.

SPEAKER_06 1:20:51

Also, like at least if it had been like tossed out, I would be like, all right, well, they tried, but no, they like they were like, oh no, we'll just change it.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:59

Like, oh, horrible.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:00

Yeah, the other thing that sucks about that is like the makeup artist felt like it made him look so bad. And what sucks there is that he had to retire after this film. Like, this was the last thing he ever did. And he was like a younger guy at the time. Um, it just I don't know. I think it's crappy because all the things that happened were outside of his control, and the final product you see on screen in the film isn't even indicative of the quality of work that he did.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:25

Damn, but he was the fall guy. That sucks. Well, that's all I have for fact or fiction.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:29

Thanks, Mac. Well, there you have it, folks. We've learned a lot about some fluky set work, uh, some less than stellar effects, and some dangerous set design and construction with nails slicing people open. But despite all of that, Halloween 4, the return of Michael Myers, managed to earn four slashes in one hack, which I've gotta say I'm a little surprised by and also very happy about.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:52

You're welcome. Sorry, Chris.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:53

No, Paris, you're consistent. I expected it. Don't don't apologize for a thing. We've talked about a lot here, and there's a lot to unpack within the lore of Michael Myers. So the conversation isn't isn't ever gonna end here. There's so much behind-the-scenes trivia and knowledge out there that I know excites a lot of people about this movie. So we want to hear from you and we want to know what you think about it. So keep in mind there are a ton of ways you can reach out to us, starting with our website, hackerslash.com, and on our social media accounts on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter.

SPEAKER_06 1:22:20

We also want to hear from you if you liked the Michael Myers mask in this movie. You can hit us up at the Hackerslash Hotline. Our number is 757-606-0128, and you can text us, call us, leave us a voicemail, or an audio message.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:33

Or if you've sliced your belly open on a nail while rolling around in a roof, send us an email about it to feedback at hackerslash.com.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:39

If you've enjoyed listening to our podcast, consider becoming one of our patrons like MT. You can visit patreon.com slash hacker slash to earn cool perks for as low as one dollar a month.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:49

We'll see you next time. Bye.