SPEAKER_07 0:04

There's some pigface bitch hiding in the closet ready to catch up.

SPEAKER_04 0:12

Greetings and salutations and welcome to Hacker Slash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. We want to play a game this time. If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack, total joke, waste of time, or a slash.

SPEAKER_01 0:28

Totally killer, pun intended.

SPEAKER_04 0:29

Our show is built on our core belief that horror is for everyone, and as such, we're rating these movies with the perspective we've each gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we tend to fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast. This week I'm joined by the Superfly Space Guy Mac. Ola Muchachos, the Gore Lover Alexis, hey everyone, the Scream Queen Paris.

SPEAKER_07 0:51

Hey sweets.

SPEAKER_04 0:52

And a new friend of the show, Jordan. Hi! There is such a wide variety of fans out there, folks. So we actually, Jordan would love to know a little bit more about you. What's your connection to the horror genre?

SPEAKER_05 1:02

Um, so I've been a horror fan uh for a very long time. I really got into horror. Uh the first gory horror movie I saw was Final Destination 2, and it changed my life. Excellent.

SPEAKER_02 1:14

Awesome.

SPEAKER_05 1:15

Yeah, so the thing I love about horror movies is that it has a carnal florality to it and it really makes you feel something. You know, all humans have that. And it really hits something within you. Like there's no other genre that you're gonna stay up at night thinking about all night, you know? It's really something that hits you as a human. Like you don't go and watch like a chick flick or something like that, and you're all thinking about it afterward. It doesn't hit you in the same way. Well, at least not to me anyway. Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah. And then uh not to get like super heavy, but I uh I suffer from depression and horror is like a security blanket to me, right? And uh if I'm feeling low, I'll put on a horror movie. And it's uh it's like, yeah, sure, things are bad, but at least uh killer doll isn't chasing me, you know? Yeah, it really just puts things in perspective, and it's just I I love I love it. I it's everything to me. I love that.

SPEAKER_04 2:12

Absolutely love that, Jordan. And what style of horror do you think you you prefer most?

SPEAKER_05 2:17

Okay, I like Gore a lot. Um, The Final Destination, yeah. Final Destination and Saw are my two favorite series. I've seen all of the movies of the Saw and Final Destination franchise at least a hundred times each, probably more. Uh, which is funny because I am terrified by real life blood. I I will pass out if I see real life blood, but movies, I love it.

SPEAKER_02 2:41

I'm so glad I have someone to share my love with this uh franchise. Um because usually everyone's hacking it um over here, not saying names.

SPEAKER_04 2:48

I don't know that everyone's hacking it, but definitely me.

SPEAKER_02 2:51

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_04 2:53

I also don't think Paris has been with us for a Saw movie, so this is gonna be interesting.

SPEAKER_07 2:57

This is true. I guess we'll see where my allegiance lies.

SPEAKER_04 3:00

We will indeed. And Jordan, your favorite horror movie of all time. I know you you know love the Final Destination franchise and you love Saw. Favorite one ever. Uh Final Destination 2.

SPEAKER_05 3:09

Nice, brilliant. Yeah, because I saw it when I was 12, and it's just like it shocked me. And the one of the deaths in that movie just really struck a chord within me, and I was like, you know what? I really like this. And I would watch the behind the scenes over and over and over, and that made me appreciate the making of horror movies even more. And I I used to want to be a horror filmmaker, which I still kind of do, but I'm more on the writer side now. I I like I like all of it.

SPEAKER_07 3:35

Jordan, what kill was it?

SPEAKER_05 3:37

The ladder through the eye.

SPEAKER_07 3:38

Ah, such a good one. People get mad about that one, but that one's so good.

SPEAKER_05 3:42

I saw that at the first time and I was like, what is that?

SPEAKER_07 3:46

Because there's so many fake outs. You think it could be anything, and then it's that. It's a slip-on spaghetti.

SPEAKER_05 3:50

Well, the thing is, I saw Final Destination 2 before I saw Final Destination 1.

SPEAKER_08 3:54

Oh.

SPEAKER_05 3:55

So I didn't know what it was about at all. And I didn't know that death stalked them afterward. Like I didn't know anything, and so I was watching it with my mom. My mom saw the first one, and she was just like, Oh, hey, let's watch Final Destination II, and I was like, I don't know what that's about. And she goes, Okay, yeah, sir, let's watch it. And she just wanted to see my reaction because she's mean, and she thought it was hilarious, but it I the thing is that she hates horror now, and she hates the fact that I love horror so much, but I'm like, mom, it was your fault, you know? Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 4:25

Well, it seems like your mom would fit in with our moms because I know at least Alexis Paris and I all have mothers who subjected us to horror at very young ages. Yes. Even grandmas, great moms. Excellent. Well, Jordan is hanging out with us this week to discuss the third installment in a franchise. We know that Alexis holds very dear to her heart. Before we get down to business, we do have some follow-up to get to.

SPEAKER_07 4:47

We recently reviewed a movie called The Houses October Built as part of our Halloween lineup, and we wanted to know what our friends thought about it. You know, it didn't do great amongst our team.

SPEAKER_03 4:58

Sure didn't.

SPEAKER_07 4:59

But you know, Twitter was actually a little bit more kind to it. 56% of our fans, they gave it a slash, and only 44% gave it a hack, but also that's very close. We have a couple comments. One from Tony who said, it gets a gentle hack. It was a simmering slow burn, and by the time the film picked up, there was a school bus. I enjoyed the characters and can appreciate their journey. I just wish the story was told better. Could I watch The House's October built again? Maybe. We also have a comment from Anna on Facebook who said, Like Paris said, I have passed over this movie many times because of the title. I usually don't prefer found footage, but this felt like a well-made documentary. Like Alexis, I found it terrifying because I refuse to go anymore into haunted houses in the fear that they will kill me and nobody will save me because they think it's an act. This movie gets a slash for me. It was entertaining enough to keep my interest and stress me out as if I was going through a haunted house. By the way, having two episodes weekly has been love. Also, just became a patron. I will spread the word to my fellow horror fans to do the same.

SPEAKER_02 5:55

I love that because I don't want anyone to think I have this crazy fear.

SPEAKER_07 5:59

It's plausible, Alexis. That could happen.

SPEAKER_02 6:01

You will not catch me in a haunted house, and I still haven't gone to one yet.

SPEAKER_07 6:05

Yeah, let's just like do it though, even though we may die and people may walk by and think it's fake. Little did you know you were in a haunted house right now.

SPEAKER_02 6:12

Oh, is it really haunted?

SPEAKER_07 6:13

Yeah, look at the guy behind you.

SPEAKER_02 6:14

I did this with Ryan last week. I know. I'm not looking out the window.

SPEAKER_07 6:18

I also just want to thank Anna for becoming one of our patrons. We really appreciate your support. Uh and sharing the good word with your horror friends is a great thing to do. We appreciate that as well. Um, another new patron we'd like to give recognition to is Anthony. Anthony, welcome to our team and thank you so much for helping us out.

SPEAKER_04 6:37

Absolutely love that. And Anthony has contributed uh contributed quite a bit of knowledge to us and has even uh went ahead and helped us out with a little bit of fact fiction for one of our December episodes. Mac, your job is getting way easier, bud.

SPEAKER_01 6:50

I don't really have a job anymore and I love it. And that is our follow-up.

SPEAKER_04 6:54

Alright, now this week we're looking at the continuation of a franchise known for its gory kills, elaborate traps, and arguably more elaborate plot lines. When last we visited this franchise, we saw a sequel in which Detective Matthews raced against the clock in an attempt to catch a notorious vigilante serial killer. And also try to save the lives of eight people trapped in an abandoned house, slowly filling with nerve gas. But hey, if you know these movies, you know there's no way everyone's making it out alive. This time around, we're continuing the story from that sequel, and yes, fret not, there will still be blood. This week we're talking about the 2006 film, Saw 3. Now, Jordan, I know this one is one of your favorites. What is your connection to this movie in the Saw franchise?

SPEAKER_05 7:37

Uh so I would say this is definitely my uh favorite Saw movie of the entire series, yeah. Uh so my connection to the Saw franchise is that I am a massive fan, of course, but I I don't know if y'all know who Lee Wenell is, but he's the guy that wrote the first three. And I have his handwriting tattooed on me right here, Cherish Your Life in his handwriting. And I also have his handwriting right here too, but it's uh Insidious based because he wrote uh Insidious. Nice.

SPEAKER_07 8:09

We're gonna have to post these tattoos on the social media.

SPEAKER_05 8:11

So I don't know if y'all know like history about Lee is like he he's from Australia. Him and James Wan uh were in Australian film school together, and they made a short film, and it was the scene with Amanda in the first movie, but it was with obviously a different actress, but it was a little short film, they were not expecting anything of it, but a Los Angeles producer got a hold of it and uh basically paid for them to come over and film the movie, and uh so Lee was just straight out of film school in Australia and just became this huge thing overnight. He also plays Adam in the movies in uh the first and third movie. He plays Adam too, and uh Lee follows me on Twitter, which changed my life, honestly. I love him so much.

SPEAKER_02 8:58

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_05 8:58

He's my favorite person, honestly. He's such a sweetheart. And uh yeah, I messaged him one day and I told him about how much the Saw franchise means to me. And he uh I said at the end of my note, I said, Is there any way that you can write out the words cherish your life and send it to me in a DM so I can get it tattooed? And he sent it to me in two different fonts. He sent it in this font, and then he did one in all caps. He said, You choose which one looks better. And uh then he followed me and I was like, Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_07 9:27

Cute.

SPEAKER_05 9:28

That is such a beautiful story. Yeah, thank you. And I also have the uh hacksaw tattooed on my right ankle as well.

SPEAKER_04 9:34

Very nice. So you joined us at just the right episode. I love this, yeah. This is gonna be perfect tonight. I'm excited.

SPEAKER_07 9:42

Also, to think such a kind gesture could come from the same mind that created such darkness.

SPEAKER_05 9:48

Yeah. I've met Tobin Bell a couple times too. He's a sweetheart, who's the guy that plays John Cramer Jigsaw. I've met Shawnee Smith, who plays uh Amanda, and uh Hoffman, the coastess Mendeler. I've met all of them, and Carrie Elwes, who plays Dr. Gordon in the first one, and they were all super, super sweet.

SPEAKER_04 10:06

Love, love, love him. He was actually the reason I saw the first Saw movie and was not disappointed by him at all.

SPEAKER_02 10:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:12

Alexis, obviously, this is among your favorites as well.

SPEAKER_02 10:15

Oh, yeah, definitely. It's um kind of similar to Jordan. I don't know. When I get in these moods, I'm like really like, I don't know why. I'm like, all right, I'm gonna start off with Saw One and then just go and see where it takes me. And I know I forgot. Usually it's like around Thanksgiving. Sometimes it's Easter. It's definitely an Easter movie. But um, yeah, it's just one that I just like hit keep up and you know, recently did like a live, did like live tweeting on it, and I was so cool to be able to see all the people that enjoyed all of it. I just, you know, I can only get so far sometimes, and I'm like, okay, maybe I'm gonna go backwards instead of forwards because I've seen the first like five or six or five plenty of times, but the other ones I have not seen that often, so maybe I should work backwards.

SPEAKER_07 11:00

Just start in the middle.

SPEAKER_02 11:01

There you go. I actually like that. The sixth one is honestly so good. Like trying to think because I can't remember all of them. Like we were talking about this before. We're like, four is this, five is this, six is this.

SPEAKER_04 11:13

No, that's okay, Alexis. I do a similar thing when I re-watch Halloween. I always start with Halloween 1978, and then I'll branch out whichever multiverse I'm going. So on Halloween Day, I watched Halloween 1978, then watch Halloween 2 from 1981, then restarted that evening, Halloween 1978, then Halloween 2018. So I I understand you get your your need to be chronological. I get it.

SPEAKER_02 11:37

Yes, exactly. Some weirdness about me.

SPEAKER_07 11:39

I will say I've seen many Saw movies, and I often forget which ones have what in them. Um I saw this one in theaters, I do know that. I saw I think all of the ones that I've seen, I think I saw them in theaters. Uh, because I was in high school at the time. They were like the horror movies of the age, so I saw all of them, and I actually really enjoyed the first one. Uh I also really enjoyed the second one. And this one, you know, I think things take a little bit of a turn. Um but you know, we'll talk. We'll talk about this.

SPEAKER_01 12:08

I didn't see them in theaters. I wasn't as lucky. I got to see them on DVD, and I think I had like we had like a box set of one through three. I don't know if that existed back in the day or from if we just had three of them. It did, that like clear box set. Yeah, something like that. But I don't know. I was I was lucky enough to be on the Saw 2 episode last year, and this is one of the three Saw films I've seen. Just three. Sorry, guys.

SPEAKER_05 12:30

The only one I've ever seen in the theater was the eighth one, and that was I saw it uh the day it came out in the theaters, and I met Tobin for the first time the next day, which was really cool.

SPEAKER_04 12:40

What a whirlwind experience.

SPEAKER_05 12:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:42

I love that. I've um I'm gonna bum you guys out a little bit here. I've I've said this plenty in our previous episodes covering this franchise. If this listener is your first one you're hearing, here's a quick recap. I loved the first Saw movie, was let down by the second, and then I've also shared that I saw this movie in theaters when it came out, like Paris, we're very similar age, and it was the point at which I decided I was done with the franchise. Oh wow. I didn't rem I don't remember specifically why. Um, I just know that it left enough of an impression for me to have zero desire to ever revisit it. And for the record, the only other movie I've ever felt that way about was Cabin Fever, and we saw how that turned out when we did it for the podcast. I came to this viewing obviously with a lot of contempt for this movie, but in all fairness, I did approach it with an open mind, especially since there was about 14 years of separation, and I am now an entirely different person. But how were you all feeling during this watch?

SPEAKER_02 13:39

Honestly, I now have a different living situation than I have previously ever had in my entire life. Um so I was freaking more scared than I actually ever have been. I think uh a lot of the you get a lot of the behind the scenes kind of and see how things go um compared to the first one and the second one. And it was just like, I'm like, oh wow, that's how easy it is to nab someone in their house. So I got a little little chilly. Is this the movie you christened your new place with? It is. Wow. Oh my goodness, she's filthy. I feel horrible. I if did does it count if I watched it on my phone? Yeah, you still watched it within the confines of your home, yes.

SPEAKER_07 14:24

The energy is still in the home.

SPEAKER_02 14:25

How do I get rid of this juju that's in my apartment now?

SPEAKER_07 14:28

Just sage.

SPEAKER_02 14:29

Okay, perfect.

SPEAKER_07 14:30

I'll say that while watching this, um, I think, like Chris, it's been 14 years since I've seen this movie. Um, and I forgot like how truly dark sided it is. Like there's certain situations where I'm just like, Jesus. But also there were moments where I was like, that's I don't like that. That's kind of problematic. So I feel like parts of this movie haven't aged well, but like the essence I think is still intact.

SPEAKER_01 14:52

You know, the more I watch saw movies, and I've again I've only seen three, and I've seen this one before as well. The more I just spend time like focusing on Jigsaw's motives, and I don't know why it bothers me so much, and I get like really into his brain, but I don't know. Sometimes you can buckle in and see kind of what craziness happens with in the song universe, but sometimes you know, my brain gets caught up on things and I and I stop soaking up the entertainment value. So that's just kind of how the mood I was in this time. I was more in the analytical.

SPEAKER_02 15:20

Oh, then were you on a roller coaster?

SPEAKER_05 15:23

This is strange, but I've seen this movie hundreds of times. I watched it today, re-watched it today, so it was very, very fresh in my mind. And it's the first time I've ever cried watching it. Ooh. And uh, I know we're not in the spoiler territory yet, so I will be quiet as to why, but I yeah, I empathize strongly with a certain character, and it really took me by surprise, which I've always loved this character, but it really, I don't know. I was I was having a mood today. I don't know what was going on.

SPEAKER_04 15:54

Jordan, were you in your feels?

SPEAKER_05 15:56

I was in my feels.

SPEAKER_04 15:57

I had my dove jark chocolates and everything, and I was just Yeah, that is how horror movies are best enjoyed when in your feels, and usually everyone makes fun of me for it, but here we are.

SPEAKER_07 16:08

I'm very curious as to what character this is.

SPEAKER_04 16:11

I also got a little bit teary while I was watching this movie, but it was for one very brief moment that did not last very long. I would say that it was so minor that I wouldn't even really classify it as a real feeling. It was more like a chemical reaction in my body. I did have two main feelings when I was watching this one, and the first and really overall sensation I had was it not being as bad as I remember. There are some scraps of things that I appreciated. But the other feeling, though, was that this was very much like a Celine Dion movie for me, and by that I mean Paris, can you do me a favor?

SPEAKER_06 16:45

It's all coming back, it's all coming back to me now.

SPEAKER_04 16:50

Yes, we here we are yet again on this podcast where I forget about so much of this movie, and then as soon as it starts, I'm just reliving all the reasons why I disliked it. So, uh, this was a really interesting time. Some things that I I found to appreciate, but a lot of things I'm like, ah yes, this is this is the why. This is the reason that I was turned off in the franchise. So it was interesting.

SPEAKER_07 17:13

But Chris, were there moments of love and were there flashes of light?

SPEAKER_04 17:16

Yeah, there was a lot of flashes of light, and honestly, that's one of the problems, man. That's one of the problems. I will say though, that because it all kind of came back to me, there wasn't much that surprised me. But I was disappointed in how hysterical a few of the performances were. That's surprising for you? I mean I mean, the amount of hysteria was truly shocking. Like there's like a regular level of hysteria for Saul, and then this was like a bad hysteria.

SPEAKER_02 17:42

Okay. I can't wait to explore that a little bit more.

SPEAKER_04 17:46

Oh yes.

SPEAKER_02 17:46

I guess I was surprised at how well I know this movie. I was like, yep, this, this, this, and this happened. And I remembered the twist. So I was like, because usually like I and really love enjoying these because I kind of forget the twists and turns and the continuation of the story from the first film. So um I was like, oh wow, I know this one fairly well. Proud of you. Oh, thank you. I know it's only taking me of years to watch this, or how many years I've been watching this, and I finally got it.

SPEAKER_01 18:19

Built into those memory banks.

SPEAKER_02 18:21

All the saws and all the traps. All the traps.

SPEAKER_01 18:24

I I was surprised by the quality of the gore, honestly. Maybe it's because I'm not a huge sawhead, if that's a thing, I'm not sure, but I just forgot how just damn great it looks. It's seriously really good gore.

SPEAKER_07 18:36

The gore is definitely a huge element of this movie, and I imagine our gore score section is going to be pretty bloated this episode. Um, one thing I'll see that disappointed me were some of the choices. Actually, oh no, a lot of the choices that were made by characters in this movie disappointed me. Um and then I was also surprised by truly, again, how dark some of this stuff is. Because I remember there was a time in my life where I was like so obsessed with all of this, and I was like, wow, I was a really dark-sided teen. Um, and I'm still kind of enjoying it.

SPEAKER_04 19:04

Paris, I'm so interested to see, based on just like the very vague statements we've exchanged so far. I feel like we may feel similarly uh regarding some characters. So I'm curious to see how this turns out in our scoring.

SPEAKER_07 19:15

Truly, who's to say?

SPEAKER_05 19:16

I I was just surprised that I cried, which is cra I've just Really. I've never cried watching any of these, and it just really took me by surprise.

SPEAKER_07 19:25

You and Chris both cried. I need to know what this was.

SPEAKER_04 19:28

Well, here's the thing, right? You get to a certain point in your life, and you've never been more you than you are right now. You've never been more prepared to feel things than you are right now. So there does come a point in your life where you could look at a situation completely differently. And I think the time that I've gotten away from this movie did well for me being able to like acknowledge some of that darkness that you were alluding to, Paris, and perhaps empathize with some characters in some regard. But this isn't one of those movies that's supposed to make you cry. I mean, there's like some tear-jerking situations, but ultimately some of it's supposed to gross you out, some of it's supposed to scare you, and I think there's really only one moment in this movie that I found slightly creepy, but just like that tear-jerky kind of moment earlier, it was very briefly out lived for me. Uh I found this movie not scary, but just gross. But like not even like cringy gross, just like unnecessarily gross. That's that's just my brain though.

SPEAKER_05 20:27

Yeah, there's one scene that I can't watch and I haven't been able to watch since I was uh 13 when I first saw it. Yeah, I am very, very good with gore, but there's one scene in this movie that I can't even stomach and I have to skip it every time, which surprises even myself.

SPEAKER_02 20:43

Ooh. I definitely want to know what that one is because it might be the one I uh, you know, fast forward through.

SPEAKER_07 20:49

I'm certain it's the same for all of us. Jordan, though, were you scared during this movie?

SPEAKER_05 20:54

So it doesn't scare me anymore now, but of course, uh when I was younger, it scared me. There there was one death in this movie that when I was little, I'm scared of the dark. I'm 29 and I'm still scared of the dark, okay? And yeah. And so I would I would lay in bed at night and I would kind of like imagine one of the deaths in this movie in the corner of my room, just like sitting there, and it freaked me out. And so so it doesn't scare me anymore, but it definitely left a laugh lasting impression on me for a long time when I was younger.

SPEAKER_01 21:30

Oh my gosh, now I need to know what that is. Hey, there's nothing wrong with being scared of the dark because the dark is unknown. Nobody can see through it. We don't have night vision. That's one of those like phobias that I don't even consider a real phobia because I mean all humans. Like we're all worried about it. But Mac, were you scared though? Of course not. I mean, it didn't scare me. It it's wince inducing, I'll say. So definitely had some some winces going on in my life. Not not really fear though.

SPEAKER_07 21:57

Okay, Alexis, be with me. You were scared, right?

SPEAKER_02 22:00

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_07 22:00

Okay, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 22:02

I wasn't as scared as I was like when I was a kid watching these. Teenager, whatever I am. You were probably eight years old.

SPEAKER_08 22:08

Come on.

SPEAKER_02 22:09

No, she was the same year, same age as me, so like 16 years old. But yeah, they were terrifying. But then I was like, you know what? This is why I'm good to people. And this is why I treat people good. So I don't have killers come and get me. So I'm like, I'm good with this one. I can keep watching this. Like that's kind of how I feel. But watching people get got in this movie from behind, kind of, kind of was really scary to me. I got from behind. What a way to go. You're got from behind.

SPEAKER_07 22:38

I will say that I was very scared, and I always am during Saw movies for a multitude of reasons. One, the spooky pig face. If that thing were to ever be anywhere, that's why you turn the lights on when you get home. And that's why you like check the closets for shit, because there's some pig face bitch hiding in the closet ready to get you.

SPEAKER_02 22:57

I have to go home after this, okay?

SPEAKER_07 22:59

You better look out, because nobody's karma is perfect. Wow. Two, the spooky doll. The spooky doll of it all on the tricycle? Absolutely fuck no. No.

SPEAKER_04 23:08

No Billy?

SPEAKER_07 23:09

No. I ew it has a name?

SPEAKER_04 23:11

Yeah, his name is Billy. Ew, why does it have a name? Because I think you find out later in the franchise.

SPEAKER_07 23:16

Oh god.

SPEAKER_05 23:17

Maybe not. My biggest pet peeve is when people call Jigsaw the puppet, they're like, oh, that's Jigsaw. That's Billy. I have a Funko Pop of Billy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:27

There's like a life-size Billy that you can buy in most comic shops, and I was thinking about getting one for Beck that way with my like little collection of creepy things.

SPEAKER_07 23:35

No, I I vetoed this idea.

SPEAKER_05 23:37

I met the director of this film, uh, Darren, Darren Lynn Boosman, and I actually met the Billy from uh Saw 2. They use different ones each movie, but I got a picture of myself with the actual doll from Saw 2, which is pretty quick.

SPEAKER_07 23:51

Okay. You said met, and I was like, is it not inanimate? Because that's unacceptable to me. I'm gonna die.

SPEAKER_05 23:56

It's a person. Also, I'm a little bit of a psychopath. I actually the first movie is kind of my soothing movie, and I'll watch it while I'm trying to go to bed sometimes.

SPEAKER_07 24:06

That's fair.

SPEAKER_05 24:07

And I'll fall asleep watching it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:09

We do this too. It's it's fine.

SPEAKER_02 24:11

You're not a psychopath, you're a regular person just like us. I usually watch them when I'm getting ready in the morning, so you're good.

unknown 24:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:18

I will tell you though, I did the other night start falling asleep to a documentary on the Golden State Killer. And if you know me, you know that a lot of my favorite movies involve phone calls, like the opening 20 minutes of When a Stranger Calls from the 70s. And there's a point in the documentary where they actually play audio of him saying, I'm going to kill you. In like his super raspy voice.

SPEAKER_07 24:41

Ew, The Real Killer?

SPEAKER_04 24:42

The real killer. And I'm like, okay, no, this shit hits differently. I don't I'm turning it off. I'm putting on a fucking horror movie. It's different when it's like, you know, it's a real person who actually did eventually kill them.

SPEAKER_07 24:54

For sure. I just want to wrap up my fear segment. Um, because the biggest scary thing for me in this and all of these is the pain. Because I'm not afraid of dying. Like, kill me, that's fine, we're cool. But the the pain and the suffering and the agony, unacceptable. I can't do it. And so to just to imagine being in any of these freaking contraption booby trap things, I would I don't know what I would do. I think I would choose whichever option kills me the quickest. Um, because I'm not getting out alive. I'm not gonna, you know, slip my wrists to get a key. I will just die, just kill me, just shoot me in the face. I don't know. But this is horribly scary to me because I don't like pain.

SPEAKER_04 25:32

So what you're saying is you do not have the will to survive.

SPEAKER_07 25:34

No, absolutely not. Life isn't that precious. That's fair.

SPEAKER_04 25:38

But to go back to what you're saying about the pig face, the the pig face, the pig head. I'm not afraid of the pig head in these movies. However, I did play Dead by Daylight. Have you has anyone here played this?

SPEAKER_07 25:49

I've heard of this.

unknown 25:50

I haven't.

SPEAKER_04 25:50

Yes! There was a point where like I was working on a generator, and then I just see this figure crouching, and this is like when the pig first became a thing, and I didn't realize anything. I'd never played with the pig before. And then all of a sudden, they just stand up in this red coat with the pig face and start like stabbing me, and it scared the shit out of me because the pig doesn't have a terror radius. So any other killer, you know they're coming. In this though, the pig just sneaks up on you, and it's it's different when you're playing it. It's weird. It g it got me.

SPEAKER_01 26:18

I don't like that one bit. I mean, I like bacon, but I don't want my bacon to get me.

SPEAKER_04 26:22

Oh, that's fair.

SPEAKER_05 26:23

That's fair. Yeah, and the thing about Dead by Daylight is they put the head the reverse bear trap on your head, too, and you have to figure out how to get that off. That always freaks me out. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 26:32

Oh my gosh, and then you have to like you have to like go and find these little like traps to put your hands in that have Billy the puppet sitting on it, and it has that like fucked up laugh. It's bad. It's bad. Saw isn't scary until you're playing in Saw.

SPEAKER_07 26:45

Even like the reverse bear trap, though, like I would just wait out the clock and let it snap my skull open and then just die instantly so you don't have to feel all that, you know?

SPEAKER_02 26:53

I would try to be digging in my friend's body to find the key.

SPEAKER_04 26:58

Honestly, Alexis, do you even need a reverse bear trap to dig in someone's body? I feel like you just do it.

SPEAKER_02 27:04

Yeah, probably not. Honestly, sorry, my bad, he was alive. Giving me ideas.

SPEAKER_04 27:10

For as not scary as I found this movie, it it is pretty unique, right? There's it's undeniable how original the Star franchise is, and the plot is wildly complicated. And I tell you what, no one does wildly complicated like this franchise. Nobody, not even Pretty Little Liars, big fan.

SPEAKER_02 27:28

They don't even touch it. I agree with that statement and full, fully back you on that. Having seen both.

SPEAKER_01 27:36

You know, it's it's another Saw film for me, so there's some brutal torture and of course questionable motives. But this film adds a new feature that ensures sequels would continue for years and years to come. And you gotta respect that.

SPEAKER_07 27:49

It's actually really interesting, Jordan, that you said that Final Destination and Saw are your favorite franchises. Because when I was watching this one, um, I had rewatched the second one just to like brief myself because I had watched the first a couple months ago, so it was still fresh. Um, but I was thinking, I was like, this reminds me of the Final Destination franchise in that they came up with a really original idea for the first movie and it was like amazing. And then everything since that has just been like a variation on the theme. Um so I kind of grade it on a scale because I feel like it has an inherent level of originality, but like within the franchise, I feel like this movie still managed to do something different.

SPEAKER_05 28:24

I do agree with uh writer Lee Wanel uh when he says that the film is the proper ending to the Saw franchise. I totally agree with that. And while I love all of them, the goodness of it definitely ends after this movie. And I think everything else is just, I'm not gonna say gratuitous, but extra, you know? And uh I definitely uh I do think it wraps up nicely. Um, but I do think that you have to watch the first two to understand the third, obviously, because it's not a cartoon. Like it's it's not like a SpongeBob episode where at the end of one Spongebob episode, like Patrick and Spongebob blow themselves up, and then the next episode, oh, they have to figure out how to put themselves back together, you know? And then it's carries on like that. No, it's like it's it's actually a a story, and you actually have to pay attention. Something really funny that happened to me, I don't remember how long ago, but I was on Tumblr and I found this guy who was just trash talking the Saw franchise, and I was like, okay, what the heck? It was my burner account. And I entered his DMs and I was like, hey, if you don't mind, can I ask you why do you hate the Saw franchise so much? And he said, Well, I started with the fifth one and I just didn't get it. So I stuck and I was like, bro, they're it's a it's a movie series. Like you have to watch it from the beginning, you know? And so um, yeah, I think I think that you definitely have to have some kind of attachment to the characters to understand the motivations behind some of them. And it's it's it's not a standalone, but it's definitely something that you can watch and still enjoy if you don't understand it. Because the thing about the Saw franchise is it has its storyline, the long storyline, and then it has little games throughout. So I mean, if you just want to go for something on Halloween, be scared. Yeah, go watch it. Uh, you don't necessarily have to know the whole long, convoluted flashback storyline thing going on that Saul has that I love, but is also very confusing to other people. You don't have to have that knowledge, but at the same time, it's nice so that you really get why characters do what they do.

SPEAKER_04 30:33

Now, you did say that this movie wraps up pretty well. Here's the thing, right? Like, I I agree with this being the end of like the first three movies. I think the story that is told through those three movies is is solid. I'm fine with the idea of the ending of this movie, but the execution of it left much to be desired for me. In a word, I'd say it's frustrating because there's like a redemptive opportunity there, not just for the people, but for the movie itself, based on like everything that I disliked about it up until that point. But the reveal of everything just felt so absurd and so over the top that it felt like soap opera drama and less like this is a fun horror movie. And I could have used a lot less, ah, do you see what we did here? Energy. Like I really wanted just a reduction of that. But I'm also not the kind of horror fan that this movie caters to. So it is what it is.

SPEAKER_02 31:25

I mean, I sometimes like that recap because sometimes I'm so mind-fucked in these that I'm like, uh, but what? And then I was like, okay, cool. Like that and then that's why I I do like the ending of this. I like how it wraps it up, and I I don't think it necessarily is so on point like that, but um, I definitely think it gives like a lot of clarity to um a lot of people who are into the gore and then trying to pay attention to the storyline.

SPEAKER_01 31:52

Yeah, the ending worked for me. I mean, the first time I watched it, it like completely caught me off guard in in a really good way. Not in like there's like some weird twist or turn that you were like, you know, it they were the pig the whole time or something like that. But no, I I think it was really cool because it's just so shocking what you see on screen, like visually shocking. And the way that it wraps up with the characters, I think is why I stopped watching the soft films. Because I thought this is it, like it's done. And then I just never like picked them up afterwards because it was such a good conclusion. I mean, you gotta respect it for for ending not just one but three different films in a nice, neat little package with a bow on top. And then the fact that there was more, I think for true soft fans, they were probably like, yes, like bonus material, more icing on the cake. But for me, I was just like, uh, you know, I don't I don't need more. I had the experience and it and it finished for me. So maybe I'm missing out on something. I know two of you at least will probably feel that way, but I don't know. It's it's tough. I think one day I will have to sit down and watch the rest of the 20 uh movies that came afterwards.

SPEAKER_02 32:57

Yeah, you definitely should if you've done all of Friday the 13th. This should be your next one.

SPEAKER_01 33:01

I haven't done all of them. I've only done seven or eight.

SPEAKER_02 33:04

Yeah, it's a lot, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04 33:06

It's a lot.

SPEAKER_01 33:06

It's a lot.

SPEAKER_04 33:07

Friday the 13th is such an easier watch than Saw. You have to admit that. Like Friday the 13th, you got some goofiness breaking everything up, but Saw is just like, let's sit in darkness in death. That's what Saw is.

SPEAKER_07 33:21

It certainly demands a bit more from the viewer. Um, I will say, while the ending, you know, it didn't suck. There was one thing I remembered about this movie, and as somebody who never remembers anything from movies, um, and I watched this 14 years ago, there was one detail I remembered that was supposed to be a reveal at the end, but it was like the only thing I I knew to be certain, and I was like, oh wait, that was a plot point that I was supposed to not remember. So I was kind of like underwhelmed by the ending this time around. But like Alexis was saying, there is like a lot of recap in this, and at one point they're recapping something that happened two minutes ago, and I was like, okay, I think we're done with the recap. We're we got it, we're here now.

SPEAKER_04 34:04

Exactly.

SPEAKER_07 34:05

Last time on Dragon Ball Z.

SPEAKER_04 34:08

Two minutes ago on Dragon Ball Z.

SPEAKER_05 34:10

While I think that it definitely is a nice little bow package, the first three, once you watch all of them, you'll realize that all the other ones have flashbacks to things that happened before one, two, and three. So it kind of gives you even more motivation to why the characters do what they do. Like half, literally half of the rest of the series, uh, at least four through seven, have reasons why John Kramer does what he does, flashbacks to his entire mode of motivation. Half of it is flashback, half of it is what's happening in the present. So that's why I'm glad that it didn't end at three, because you really get the full package. And as a writer, I really appreciate that because I'm someone who likes to write with flashbacks, and so it's something that I really enjoy that kind of storytelling. And that I can't tell if I like to write with flashbacks just because I naturally do or because I'm so engrossed in this series that it kind of made me obsessed with flashbacks, you know?

SPEAKER_07 35:05

So they put like bookends on it.

SPEAKER_04 35:06

Yeah, it's like a different way of approaching it instead of just doing straight up prequels, right? Like I think how much better Star Wars could have been had we gotten the prequel entries if you watched them as flashbacks. So, like if you start the original saga, flash back to two and three, then pick back up. It's a different experience. It hits different.

SPEAKER_01 35:24

The Machete Order.

SPEAKER_04 35:25

Exactly. Now we have a lot to get to here. Uh there are a lot of mystery moments, right? So what scene uh traumatized Jordan, a young Jordan at that. But first comes the scoring, and before the scoring comes the body count. Alexis, there's a lot of death in this franchise, but how many people died in this movie?

SPEAKER_02 35:41

It's crazy. I've always thought there were like so many deaths in these movies, but I mean 10 I think is a lot, but interestingly enough, I don't know. I thought there were more than 10. And it's just I guess there's just every time I see blood, I see death, but there's not necessarily that correlation in this uh franchise.

SPEAKER_04 36:00

Yeah, it's not quite a slasher, but it's up there. I mean, we I think we've seen Jason kill some more people than this. Oh, for sure. And in Ryan's absence, what about that animal report?

SPEAKER_01 36:09

Well, I think it depends on who you are, right? So are we seeing animals killed on screen? No. Are we seeing animals on screen that have already been slain? Yes.

SPEAKER_02 36:20

And used. Right.

SPEAKER_01 36:22

But it it's nothing more than you would get in any other like industrial food society.

SPEAKER_04 36:27

Yeah, this isn't as sad as Halloween 4, The Return of Michael Myers, when we see a good boy dead in the closet. Nothing like that.

SPEAKER_07 36:34

I love Max's completely emotionless approach to the animal report.

SPEAKER_04 36:38

It's because he's our resident android. It's fine.

SPEAKER_01 36:41

It's bad. If you like animals, it's bad, everyone. I don't know. Can you walk into a supermarket and you know see the food? Some people look go in there and it makes them nearly throw up. I go in there and I just see, okay, this is something that used to belong to a cow and now I'm gonna eat it.

SPEAKER_04 36:58

You know, Mac, you may have been emotionless, but at least it's it fares better than some of the other movies we've seen. But let's go ahead and start getting into our scoring. Saw three. Was it a hack or a slash?

SPEAKER_01 37:08

I'll go first because last time on Dragon Ball Z, I I gave Saw 2 a hack. So I don't know if you if you've listened to that episode, if you haven't, go back and listen to it, watch the movie, do the whole the whole thing, and then come back and then do the whole thing for for this episode. But this is also a hack for me, but I'll explain why. It's a genre thing. So as Alexis knows, as Chris knows, as Paris knows, Jordan, you're learning. I mean, you've listened, so you've probably heard. I I'm not the biggest gorehead, so I'm okay with it. It doesn't bother me. I don't get necessarily grossed out unless you're cutting somebody hot dog style with a rickety old saw.

SPEAKER_04 37:45

Different saw.

SPEAKER_01 37:46

Right. But for this one for me, it ends up being a lot of torture and a lot of torture porn, and I that doesn't hit the spot for me. Doesn't do it for me. So yeah, it's it's a hack, but only as a genre thing. I also have some issues with the the motivation of the killer, and that to me is always interesting because we've all seen too many, you know, documentaries about such things, and so it like programs my brain to look for that and to think about that. And maybe I'm thinking about it in the wrong way to enjoy these films. But I think if you liked the first two, this is gonna be right up your alley.

SPEAKER_05 38:22

That's why I think you need to watch the rest of them because you really discover why it's all going down.

SPEAKER_01 38:28

And and that might be the issue is that I don't have the context yet, and that as I go further, we can retroactively change my ratings at that point. But I'm not I'm not there yet. I have to do a little time travel.

SPEAKER_07 38:40

I don't know that if you like if you're in the if you're at the third movie and you still don't have enough context to enjoy it, I don't think we can really go any further than that.

SPEAKER_04 38:48

I agree, I agree. You find out what's going down, but should you really have to like figure out why is Yellow and Timber to like go back and assess three movies worth of content? I don't I don't think so.

SPEAKER_07 38:59

It certainly wouldn't fly in my book. Was that a casher reference?

SPEAKER_02 39:02

It was, it was. So I think there's no surprise here. I'm giving this a jigsaw.

SPEAKER_01 39:07

A jigsaw.

SPEAKER_02 39:09

That's a slash, not a hack. But it's a total slash for me. Um this franchise is something I continue to go back to year after year um for my own demented reasons. But um I love it. I don't know. I just I love the twists, I love the storyline, um, I love the gore. I think it's really um the ingenuity like everyone has on these traps and just the minds of the writers, the producers, the directors, just everyone coming together to make a solid film. Um, although I know it's gotten critiqued after this one that it, you know, is a little bit more gory and just for the factor of grossing people out. I do appreciate like the extent of the storyline. And I don't know, I just really love it. And there's a whole bunch of with the flashbacks, there's you know, just bringing old stuff into the present. And like, you know, Jordan mentioned just having this continuation of the story, and I just love how they just put that in there. I'm like, oh my gosh, that's this from the first one. Da-da-da. So I love that. I know Chris loves those in um Halloween movies, and I love them in this franchise, so it's a slash. That was the best slash I've ever given. I think that was great.

SPEAKER_05 40:18

It was certainly robust. So I'm gonna give this a slash, obviously. Oh, surprise, surprise. Um I really I love I just love this whole series, and I don't think I could give any of these movies a hack just because they mean so much to me. But if I had to give any of them a hack, there are a couple that I would choose.

SPEAKER_04 40:37

If you were in your own saw trap, you already know which ones you would sacrifice to make it out alive.

SPEAKER_07 40:42

Ah.

SPEAKER_04 40:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 40:43

What a question. Nice. That's a good one. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 40:46

There's some that I'll skip.

SPEAKER_07 40:47

Excellent. Like I said, I really love the first one. The first one's iconic, we can all agree. Um, really shook up the whole horror genre, especially at the time. Things were getting stale and boring. Um, and then the second one happened and things got like a little bit bigger. You know, you go from being inside one room to being inside like one house, and there's more people. And then this one makes it even bigger. And we just watched all these haunted house movies, but this was like the biggest, most miserable haunted house anyone would ever have to go through. Uh, and it was so specifically tailored to such nightmares in that person's life. Um, but I will say there was a time when I saw all these movies in theaters, and after one of these movies, I said, I think I'm done with the franchise. Um but this one wasn't it. This one's still getting a slash. Um, the gore in this is just sensational. If you like gore, this is really just chef's kiss. It's brutal, it's over the top, and it made me feel something, so I love that. Um, I will say that like some of the characters are kind of uh I know there's this one character that you're supposed to really like feel for, but I was kind of just like, good riddance, I didn't really like you. Um there's a couple problematic moments in this movie. Like at one point somebody's shamed for taking antidepressants, and I was like, I don't like that. Um, but ultimately, like Saw explores the darkest and most disturbing nooks and crannies of the human experience and just absolutely puts them on blast. Um, so this is a place that I like to live. Uh, and it's definitely getting a slash.

SPEAKER_04 42:19

I have this theory, maybe, that Paris, you and I are when you take like a pair of magnets and then flip them so they can't come together ever. Because we get so close and yet we diverge because this was the one where I said, I'm done with the franchise. And revisiting it now, 14 years later, right? Like there is quite a bit of good that I can say about this movie. I really like the complexity of one of the main characters. I like the idea of seeing a flawed dynamic between a master and an apprentice. It's like very Star Wars in that way, in that way. I also think time has been good for my relationship with Saw and the brutality that we've seen in media since 2006 has jaded me enough where I'm not quite as disgusted by what we see in this movie. Like it doesn't it doesn't hit me quite as badly as it did back in 2006. Ultimately, though, this movie still has a lot of flaws for me. So my preference is for very little gore. I like complexity of character, but not convoluted plots. Complicated, sure, intricate, yes. I can even take absurdity on some level, if that's like the only thing with it, which explains again my affinity for pretty little liars. But the but the levels of absurdity for me in this plot aren't the only thing weighing it down. It employs the exact style of early 2000s filmmaking that I detest. And for as interesting as some of the characters could be, they overact and the performances bring down what could otherwise be good characters. For those reasons, it's still a hack for me. Fourteen years later.

SPEAKER_05 43:50

And uh just to just to bring back what I said, I uh which is this is gonna sound crazy, but Saw 3 and Final Destination 2 My favor my favorite two horror movies of all time. I hate the ending of both of them. Hate the ending. I love the journey, hate the ending of both of them. Sometimes I'll just skip the ending. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 44:11

Well, this was a cliffhanger. I wasn't seeing coming.

SPEAKER_07 44:15

A last-minute plot twist addendum.

unknown 44:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 44:19

I think Jordan has just crafted this entire thing to be a Saw movie now because we've gotta know. So there you have it, folks. Saw 3 ended up only making it out with three slashes and did get two hacks, but we do have some important questions to answer. Like, why does Jordan dislike the ending? You can find this movie streaming online, check it out, then join us in the second half so we can actually unpack all there is to learn about this movie and also dig deeper into our own psyches, potentially.

SPEAKER_07 44:47

With a scalpel.

SPEAKER_04 44:48

See you in a bit.

SPEAKER_00 44:56

Are you looking for a little adventure? Trying to squeeze more juice out of the lemon that is life? Unlock yourself in a tortuously puzzling escape room. Solve puzzles, find clues, avoid certain death, all at JK Escape Room. JK Escape Room is custom tailored. To each group of friends who struggle to make it through the doldrum of their boring, everyday lives. Each of our guests is safely sedated upon entry, waking gently to find themselves fighting the clock to escape our mind-tickling brain teasers. Work together or alone. We promise to accommodate any size group with challenges beyond belief. So keep living your boring 9-to-5, or lock yourself into JK Escape Room, and forever change your life. Make your choice.

SPEAKER_04 45:48

Alright, welcome back, folks. You are now entering the spoiler zone for Saw 3, which actually earned three slashes and two hacksaws. We have a lot to unback here, but obviously there's a lot of blood and a lot of gore and a lot of death in this movie. So, Alexis, what's our core score?

SPEAKER_02 46:03

Well, um, I'm gonna just quote Paris and say sensational. Um, it's um I think I'd be joking if I said it wasn't high. Um but I love I like we've all said before, this one it's really high quality, Max said it. It's it's quality, it's and I think it gets the franchise to a place where it's not solely, in my opinion, it wasn't I mean, it was a point, you know, you have the twist flashbacks, and then you have the gore. I mean, these are kind of what this movie is writing on. And I think after this, it kind of builds on those exponentially to where sometimes it's just like not anyone's cup of tea anymore. But I think this is like a perfect fine line for me where it's churning me off in a little bit, um, but not in a bad way. Uh, that is a bad way. There's, I mean, I love all the traps. Um, I think I really want to talk about because I really want to get Jordan's perspective on all of this. Um, especially because I'm wondering if we fast forwarded on the same part. Is it the brain surgery scene?

SPEAKER_05 47:10

No.

SPEAKER_02 47:11

Oh. Oh, interesting. What was it?

SPEAKER_07 47:15

Is it the pig scene?

SPEAKER_05 47:16

It was at the very beginning when he breaks his foot, his ankle. Oh, wow. To get it out of the shackle. I can't watch that. That freaks me out so bad.

SPEAKER_02 47:25

That's so funny. I can't watch the brain surgery scene. And it's really cool because it's totally uncut. They did it straight from the scene and put that out. And um, not any different from what you see in a medical show either, which I thought was cool. But my thing is the amount of power tools used, and I get it's supposed to be crude, it's supposed to be all of this. Um, but literally I always had to fast forward it because my teeth really start to hurt so freaking bad. Yeah, like I don't know what it is. And I was like, I have to fast forward it. And then on Amazon you can only do by 10 seconds. I'm like, bam, bam, bam. I'm like, oh my god, this scene is forever long. Like, what the hell? Was it like 10 fast forwards for you? I think it was like eight. Yeah. I was like, man, this is a lot of fast forwards for this scene. But Jordan, I give you all the props for being able to. That was you could see that. I'm sure everyone else watched it too, but it's hard to watch, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_07 48:20

I gotta say, during that part, I always say audio is like the secret to good gore. The sound that the drill bit makes when it taps on the skull before she like drills is just like and like I feel like that would make my teeth hurt. You know what I mean? Just like the little tap tap. I'm like, no, don't touch the skull, it's not supposed to be outside.

SPEAKER_05 48:38

You're talking to someone who genuinely enjoys the root canals that I've gotten. What? And it's not for any kind of masochistic reason, I swear. I just I I I like the feeling of of course you have anesth uh like numbness to the jaw, but I like the feeling and I like the sound of the drill, and everyone always talks about how they hate the sound of the drill when they go to the dentist. I like it. I'm a little weird. It's okay.

SPEAKER_01 49:06

It's all good. Don't feel bad. When I go to the dentist, it always makes me fall asleep.

SPEAKER_02 49:11

What? Yeah. I'm like the most nervous person because I have gingivitis every time I go. So they're like floss, floss, floss. I'm like, do you have time in your life to floss? Because I freaking don't. Okay. But Alexis, you also have like the most perfect teeth I've ever seen. Um, no, I'm actually gonna get Invisalign on the bottom, but thank you. Wow.

SPEAKER_04 49:28

Folks, if you've ever seen Alexis, you know her smile is one of her best qualities. So this is surprising to me. That makes me feel good. Ferris, that skull, the brain surgery and the sound of that, that's actually one of the only gore scenes I really enjoyed.

SPEAKER_01 49:44

Gross. Interesting.

SPEAKER_04 49:45

Not in a weird fucked up way, I promise. It was just like, I think because it was so clinical, like in every sense of the word, that it felt appropriate and like, okay, yeah, I I can do this, but some of the other stuff we get, I'm just like, ooh, I don't like this.

SPEAKER_01 50:01

See, I'm surprised by all the scenes you've picked so far, each of you, because I thought the head explosion scene was gonna be the one that nobody could stomach. Because at the very end. Oh, at the very end, the collar goes off, and all we have is just melted mess of a human head.

SPEAKER_02 50:17

Been there, seen it.

SPEAKER_01 50:18

But see, they didn't linger enough on that one. That's true. I wonder if that was edited out or something because it was so quick.

SPEAKER_07 50:24

Yeah, compared to everything else that you're like forced to look at for a long period of time, they were just like, and her head's gone by.

SPEAKER_05 50:29

That's the one that I saw in the corner of my room when I was little. I was so freaked out. Like I I know it was like for a split second, and I remember looking at that when I was little, and I was like, what the heck was that? And we there was no rewind because I pretty sure I watched it on like HBO or something. This was before Ti-Vo. I know. Oh my gosh, I'm so old. But I couldn't remind anything, and so I was like, what the heck did I just see? And then so I would just see that in the corner of my room, just her sitting there with no head, and it was totally an avoidable death, which is what kind of freaked me out the most. It was like, it was so avoidable, and then she didn't she didn't deserve that. So I I like it when I like it when horror movies have something bad happen to someone who's bad because it's not as scary because like they had it coming. Q Chicago, he had it coming. Yes, yeah, and so like, but when someone who is genuinely good, something bad happens to them, that just disturbs the heck out of me. And I'm not saying she wasn't flawed, but she didn't deserve that, you know?

SPEAKER_03 51:32

Oh, a hundred percent.

SPEAKER_07 51:34

But also, she like didn't say anything. She could have been like, husband, don't kill that man because I I'll die too.

SPEAKER_03 51:39

She was shot. She tried, she was bleeding out.

SPEAKER_07 51:43

Where was she shot?

SPEAKER_04 51:45

Dude, she was like woozy, all this stress happening, she's losing a lot of blood, and she didn't make the attempt. But here's the other thing her very flawed husband, who is arguably the worst movie uh character in any of these movies that I've seen, he just disregarded her. This all would have been preventable had he just communicated. That's all I'm saying.

SPEAKER_02 52:04

I th I think that was his issue the entire time, but we'll talk about that when we talk about characters. But I do have a question for Jordan. What's your favorite trap in this? I know there's not usually there's a lot more, I feel like, in some of the movies, but what's your favorite in this movie?

SPEAKER_05 52:19

So I wouldn't say it's a favorite, but it is one that freaks me out the most. And it's the one where the girl is chained up naked and has the cold water on her, because I hate the cold. Like more than anything, I hate the cold. I'm glad I'm in Texas. The cold that it coldest it gets here is like 40 degrees, but even that, anything below 80, I am shivering like a little chihuahua. And I hate the cold. And like, so have you ever like just gotten out of the shower and then you're just like freezing that feeling? No, worst feeling in the world. And so every time that happens to me, I think of that scene and I'm like, nope. I I just it freaks me out so much. Like the thought of being just like not able to move and just being in a freezing cold, like she's in a walk-in freezer. Yeah, if you've ever worked in a restaurant, you know how cold that is. Imagine being buck naked in there, having cold water shot on you.

SPEAKER_04 53:09

Just oh god. Yeah, no. I used to work in a grocery store, and even going in that freezer was just too intense.

SPEAKER_01 53:15

That was the only place I was comfortable, was in the photo.

SPEAKER_02 53:18

I was gonna say, you're like, thank God.

SPEAKER_01 53:20

I would walk in and breathe. I was like, oh, the temperature I need 32 degrees.

SPEAKER_02 53:24

It's crazy because I don't like nudity isn't really at least something I notice in Saw movies. Like it's never a thing. But then I was like, oh wow, there's tits in this movie. Is this a slasher? Like, is this an 80s slasher?

SPEAKER_05 53:39

It's the only Saw movie with nudity. The only one.

SPEAKER_02 53:42

So they had a t-shirt on her, and then it was too sexualized because her nipples and all that sort of stuff. But um, so they decided to do it with it off, which honestly I didn't really I mean, I wasn't focusing on the nudity. I was like, oh my gosh, she's freezing, which so I think they did it tastefully as as tasteful as you could do freezing cold hard.

SPEAKER_04 54:03

Yes, because even with a naked woman, you know, like the last time we saw a character like that, she was getting cut in half with a saw and terrifier. They didn't exploit it. They like chose for a lot of close-ups, a lot of things over the shoulder, they're really just focusing on her instead of her body. So it's something that I could at least appreciate in that regard.

SPEAKER_01 54:22

And then they have that Christmas story moment where his, you know, he puts his tongue to the to the flagpole, but in this case it was the cheek to the freezing metal pipe. That was fun and just seeing it rip off.

SPEAKER_02 54:31

Yeah, they did that so well. I mean, everything, even when um the officer is putting her hand in that acid and it comes out and you can see the I mean, not that they wouldn't pay attention to that because it's soft, but like even has her hands coming down, you can see the bones, and these are great effects that they had.

SPEAKER_07 54:49

Can we talk about that kill? Because it was my personal fave. Um, I do have a couple, you know, opportunities here. I think that she could have tried to dump out some of the acid before doing that. She obviously couldn't pull it down, but she may have been able to lift it up a little to pour some of that out because it was a beaker. But ultimately, like that was a beautiful, like, torture machine. The way it was like fused into her ribs like that. But then I'm also thinking the whole time, like, even if you get the key, what do you have to do to get this off of your ribs? Like, what is that gonna feel like? Because probably just gonna sit there and wait for it to rip me apart.

SPEAKER_04 55:24

Yeah, I mean, really, even if you defuse that, it's like something in there is wrapped around your ribs. So it's like by design, it's already fucked, no matter what. I saw online someone goes through, I think a lot of people actually do this, so it's not just one individual. They go through and say, How to beat every saw trap. And this guy's like, nope, she was fucked.

SPEAKER_07 55:44

Oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_04 55:46

The best she could have done is try to take some of the acid, if she could even, and try to pour it on the thin pieces of metal that were actually rigged and attached to her ribs, so that when the machine actuates, it doesn't lift that part. But either way, you're stuck in there with the killer. You can't actually get out of the trap physically.

SPEAKER_07 56:04

That sounds miserable. If the solution is pour acid on your body, who wins?

SPEAKER_05 56:08

No, I actually hate the angel trap. I think it's so overrated. And it's just like, I don't, I think it's I don't know, I just don't like it. Uh every watch mojo video I've ever seen always has that as number one. And I'm like, no. Uh my favorite, my favorite of all time is actually in Sauce 6. But yeah, I think I think Angel Trap is super overrated, just for me. But I will say one trap in this that does another one, if I can add another, one that absolutely does not seem feasible and where the guy has to pull the chains out of him and he has the one through his jaw.

SPEAKER_03 56:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 56:48

Mm-hmm. No. He can't survive that.

SPEAKER_03 56:50

That's physically, no, that's not coming out. Like you're screwed, dude. No way. Because, and here's the other thing, right?

SPEAKER_04 56:55

Like, let's pretend, even if, even if you discount the welded shut door, and let's pretend it was anywhere else but his jaw, his Achilles tendons are fucked. And he now has like all these like open wounds and stuff. The best you could do is just try to put as much in between you and that bear bomb as possible to like take the nails out of the equation, like when it explodes.

SPEAKER_03 57:21

And he's still standing after he does that. It's like that's not very realistic, but okay.

SPEAKER_02 57:26

Yeah, that'd be one I could not pull.

SPEAKER_04 57:28

We have seen so many people get their Achilles tendons swiped at, and that is like an instant they're going down.

SPEAKER_05 57:35

Like in uh uh House of Wax, Jared Petelecki gets his nail slipped snipped, and he just oh god, that part creeps me out.

SPEAKER_04 57:44

And then uh Pet Cemetery, when you just nice little swipe of the tendon from under the bed. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 57:49

Even in this film though, they do explain why they couldn't break free from these traps. Because Amanda's not the jigsaw that we've grown to know in the first two films. And that I guess that's the whole point of at the very end when we see that feedback given of like, you know, they had no chance of getting out, you did this wrong, like you should feel bad. And I I thought that was actually one of the best parts. If you're gonna introduce this new dynamic of having jigsaw accomplices, you know, is like you have to carry on the tradition the right way, otherwise you're just a completely different person with a completely different method. And and that was that was interesting, and that was what I was mentioning earlier, where that new element in this film carries on, and I know that it carries on story-wise as well, um, with perhaps other people. I haven't really watched them, so I don't truly know. But I found that kind of a neat idea, and I think it was cool that we get to see the OG Jigsaw saying, like, no, no, that's not how you do it. They gotta have a real chance.

SPEAKER_05 58:46

Like when Jigsaw says that I despise murderers, and Amanda was just a straight-up murderer, at least Jigsaw gave them a chance, even though he's still a murderer, like that whole murderer. You put him in that situation. Yeah, you put two people in a room and they're like one of them's forced to cannibalize each other. You're a murderer, you know. That whole thing about whole Jigsaw's not a murder that whole thing always drive me nuts, but uh 100%.

SPEAKER_04 59:15

Yeah, I think that's one of the other issues that I have with the movie. It's you create this illusion, right? Like you you have a villain who you can feasibly attempt to root for in the way that so many other people root for Michael Myers, root for Freddie before the 2010 remake, root for Jason. You see bad things happen to generally baddish people, but then you have Amanda just killing people to kill people, and then a lot of the people in this movie, you know, the judge did his job. Granted, you want maximum sentence whenever, but the judge was not someone who directly killed his son. The judge the judge proceeded over the case. You know, the woman made a mistake and didn't stay to be a witness in the whole thing. You just have people who have already dealt with things, and it just I don't know, and it just it just fucky. It's fucky. You have people I think who don't really deserve to be there, and then you have this person designing traps that are unwinnable. And I think it just takes away from the root of like why the first couple movies were decent, even if I didn't like the second one. It just like worked against its own core message.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:31

But that was the point, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:00:33

Yeah, I don't like it.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:34

Right. Okay, gotcha.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:36

It's fine if it's the point, I just don't like it.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:38

But even Jigsaw's motivations, I I have trouble with this, it's just what a jerk thing to do of like I'm gonna torture you, and if you survive, you're gonna be thankful for it. It's like, dude, you could just like go do a seminar about finding meaning in life and and some mindfulness techniques or something. You don't have to like lock people up and make them you know fight to survive. Like that's the problem I think that kind of draws my attention away from the rest of the filming that's happening, everything going on story-wise and character-wise, is like the whole time I'm thinking, like, you're just being a jerk. Like, I don't understand why you're doing this to people.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:12

How can you sit there, sir, and make Jeff go through a test of forgiveness if you cannot forgive other people for being imperfect? Like that in itself is fucking stupid.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:22

Right. But speaking of the judge, I know it wasn't his trap, but his death was kind of hilarious to me. It was just kind of like three stooges level of like, oh, I got it. And then he like he's like, Oh, you know, I think we and then boom, done.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:38

And it's like maybe I shouldn't stand there.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:40

Great, great, uh, great symbol though, for this guy's selfishness destroying everyone around him.

SPEAKER_07 1:01:45

Oh, yeah. It was definitely related to stupidity.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:47

I have a question about that one because the judge is facing the right of the frame so that way his right side of his face is exposed, but then when he gets shot, the gore is on the left side. Like, what?

SPEAKER_03 1:02:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:00

Is that just a mistake? That made no sense.

SPEAKER_07 1:02:02

It's gotta be. I thought he got shot on the left side because he like looked this way towards the gun when it happened.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:07

Yeah, I thought he looked when he heard the sound or something. That thing must have been so quick that you couldn't even see him look because he'll look like he just went there. I need to watch it frame by frame now. Hold on, going back to the rental I had.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:20

Yeah, we need to consult New York on this one. Let's get an instant replay going, because that seemed a little problematic.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:26

But I noticed that today. I was like, what in the world?

SPEAKER_05 1:02:28

That's that that was in the wrong position for that shot to shoot that side of his face.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:32

Exactly. And then Timothy Young was an another one. Like, I I think that one was a really interesting death, and only because you see the flashbacks of him killing Dylan, and you see the grief and the weight he must have been carrying this whole time. And to see him go in such a twisted way, and arguably more gruesome than the people that the trap was even intended for, that was really fucked up.

SPEAKER_07 1:02:58

Yeah, that one was so rude, to be honest.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:01

Rude, rude, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:02

I'd say that the disrespect in this household.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:06

Exactly. No, that was uh I I remember watching that back in March and I was like, holy crap, like just one, the guy's screams are like haunting, kind of like he because he's just like, Are you kidding me? This is and I get sometimes you make a mistake in life and it's ruins your life. Um, but I don't know, just for him to go out like that, yeah, it was kind of crazy. And then to see those bones, I've never broken a bone before, nor do I ever want to, if that's what it looks like. Or I've seen all these like basketball stuff, and it's like, you know, I don't watch basketball, but I see all the videos like on the news or something. It's like, look at this. I'm like, how does that happen?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:48

I haven't broken my legs, but I did tear my ACL when I was playing football, and literally like your leg is going the wrong direction, and it's awful. And I'm glad I couldn't see it happening because I was running and looking forward, but you know, I I got hit and then my just like my leg just turned a little bit too far the wrong way. And no, it's horrible.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:08

Don't like that. No. See, I'm a wimp. I know. I'm a wimp. I can handle gore.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:14

I can't handle bone breaking. It freaks me out.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:17

Is it the sound or like just seeing it?

SPEAKER_05 1:04:20

Probably a little both. Yeah. Just seeing it like poking through the skin like that, just like shattered. It's like, oh.

SPEAKER_07 1:04:26

Bones belong inside. I would like to comment on a rather underwhelming kill, which was the asphyxiation of our friend Adam from the original. Um, PSA to everybody out there if you are being suffocated with a piece of plastic and you have free hands, poke a hole where your mouth is. This will allow you to breathe. I hate when people die this way in movies because I'm like, well, you deserve to die because you don't have common sense.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:52

Oh gosh. They always go for the person trying to asphyxiate them. They never go for the plastic bag. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:57

I mean, it's a quick surprising moment. I actually did not mind that so much. And of course, granted, you point out a very good point, right? Like it's impossible to watch this now. But it reminded me of another kill and another one of my favorite slashers, which we will eventually review, so I'll not reveal which one, lest we piss off Paris.

SPEAKER_07 1:05:18

Tell me what it is.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:19

No, you can't go in with any preconceived notions, but we'll get there. So obviously the gore is a strength, right? The deaths are a strength, the traps are intense. And i they're all strengths if you're into that kind of thing. The color grading for me though was interesting. And all the the overall decisions in post-productions that carry over from Saw 2 are just super problematic for me. If you were to like take anything, right? If I were to make a pros and cons list about Saw 3, it would be the style of it that is that weighs it down into hack territory. The quick flashes of light, nah, don't need it. It's a style I truly, genuinely hate. I hate grit, I hate Grunge and those are like the cornerstones of this franchise. So I won't beat a dead horse. I'm done. But I truly hated this movie visually.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:08

I agree. I agree. Oh. I agree with that. I hate the fact that there's like a green tint to it. And it it just it makes it as someone who makes like edits and I edit like fan videos and Photoshop things for like Tumblr, things like that, my own enjoyment. Uh it makes it extremely hard to make edits from when the quality is so grainy. Like I was watching my Blu-rays and I realized just how grainy it was because of the color grading it was given. And it was like doesn't look good. And the whole uh stylistic choice of how they have flashbacks, how they'll have like really quick flashes of things in secession, and it's very, it's kind of like a like a dolly turning around, you know, and it kind of is to disorient you, but that is just completely overdone a lot of the times, and it's really annoying, honestly. And I I do kind of like the stylistic choice of it because especially near the end, because that's usually how all the saw movies end. It has that quick succession of scenes in a row. It's very reminiscent of when they say that your life flashes before your eyes when you die. It's it kind of reminds me of that, which I like that symbolism, but it's like all this light flashing. Uh no, I it's too fast. It's very disorienting. Yeah, you don't need white frames to break it up.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:34

Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:34

I I don't I don't like that. If you're prone to seizures or epileptic, you should not watch any movie in this franchise. I agree. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:42

Fair and valid. It it dates it severely. It makes it feel like those old like anti-theft videos where it was like, you wouldn't download a car.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:50

Yes, I would.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:51

Like that's the feeling that you get from from watching those like flashes and things. It's just like, oh, am I watching Triple X, you know, with Vin Diesel right now? Is this like, is everything extreme because we're flashing so fast?

SPEAKER_07 1:08:03

I can't even say I'm mad about this. Like, generally, as an aesthetic, not a fan, but I feel like that's what the song movies are. They're grungy, they're filthy. Um, and I feel like the the quick cuts allow them to make you look at something horrific for longer than you realize you're looking at it, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:20

I think it makes sense.

SPEAKER_07 1:08:22

It like tricks the mind into seeing too much. You could just show it for longer. That would be one method. But I feel like that wouldn't be as good. I feel like if they just like showed like a straight cut of like each gross like body part snapping off or whatever, I feel like it wouldn't be as good as if it was like da da da.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:08:36

You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 1:08:37

I mean, I I get what you mean, right? So it makes it a little bit more visually stimulating to some folks, but again, it is very dated. It's very early 2000s, and that's exactly the style and time.

SPEAKER_07 1:08:48

Like Oh, for sure.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:49

Okay, people being your authentic self, awesome, amazing, be who you are. It doesn't mean if you're a shitty person that I have to like you, right? Like, if you authentically are just an asshole, then I okay, you go over that be an asshole. I'm sure you got a lot of asshole friends who like you. I don't have to vibe with you. This movie can be its authentic self, right? And like, yes, that's what Saw is. I'm gonna go over here chilling with Halloween and I'll be good. Like, it's just I respect you if you like it, it's cool, but if if I'm asked about it, I dislike it.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:19

No, Chris, maybe you can get down with me on this. Everything we've said about the movie, because we we both hacked it, you gotta give it credit for the set design because it's phenomenal.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:28

100%.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:29

Phenomenal. I mean, it's it's a maze of horrors, and it's it's so cool that it's it's bigger than than previous films felt. And sometimes that's a bad thing. I'm really like really okay with it with a small, limited space that can have its own element to it, like we saw and and saw one. But this one, like this factory, it is what it feels like, a factory of death. And it every detail is is crazy. Now, part of that is like all the small things feel really grungy and really dirty, and like all the tools are all old and crappy. But that that kind of adds to the feeling of all of the traps are like man-made by hand, individually customized to each user. And it's it's extreme, but it's an extreme that I enjoyed from this film.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:14

I'm on the same train as Paris because I appreciate the grittiness and the color gradient that's in this. I don't know, to me, it is what Saw is. It is kind of goofy, but I I don't know, I like it, you know, and clearly I'm not sure the movie's beforehand, but this is when I think of when I've seen other movies do this, like the collector um that we've also reviewed, like I'm like, oh, I've seen this before. Oh, I saw it because this I don't know if this this movie or this franchise started it, but I don't know. I like it. But it's the green. I know I'm a blues and greens kind of girl. Like I don't like reds, I don't like uh you're such a winter.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:55

I know it kind of reminds me of the earlier seasons of Supernatural, how everything's so dark. But then like as the series goes on, it gets lighter and kind of like more like a sitcom rather than something that was so dark and dingy. That's why I prefer the earlier seasons of Supernatural. I don't know if any of you have seen it, but yeah, the earlier seasons are much more horrific. Now they're just like goofy.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:20

I'm a massive supernatural fan, but I I started supernatural when I was on deployment many, many, many moons ago, and then I went home and I forgot to continue watching it. I should probably give it another shot.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:31

That's valid.

SPEAKER_07 1:11:31

I gotta give my favorite visual element um to a specific part of the set design like Mac was admiring. It is Amanda's little nook, or is that even a room? What is that? I don't know. Um, but you kind of see a lot of little details in the background. Specifically, she has a small print of the birth of Venus on that wall, which kind of gives you this insight. Like she fancies herself this sort of like reborn female deity of death and despair. Um, and it kind of gives you like an idea of like who she is and like what where her head's at. Um, and then you kind of see that unravel in this movie.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:09

That is quite genuinely the most Paris observation, and I'm here to support it.

SPEAKER_07 1:12:14

I saw that because it was like a little pop of color in like an air in like a space that was super dingy, and I was like, what is that? Oh, that's definitely the birth of Venus, and that was definitely a thoughtful choice. I would also like to acknowledge the rotting pig in the room, uh, which is that entire scene and how nasty and well crafted those dead pig carcasses all were. The first one comes out and it's like covered in maggots, and you're just like, Jesus Christ, what is this? What is it doing here? Um, and I could literally just like smell and or taste that whole experience in ways that I never want to. And that was all done visually and through audio.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:48

So, what does that taste? How would you describe that flavor?

SPEAKER_07 1:12:50

It's like sewage, but there's also like gross textures involved. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 1:12:54

Okay, so now go a step further, describe the taste of sewage.

SPEAKER_07 1:13:00

Poop water, but I guess with like more pig rot. I don't know. What was the rotted pig budget in this movie? Because there were so many pigs.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:07

Well, they had to like keep getting more pigs and the more takes they needed, right?

SPEAKER_07 1:13:10

Oh god, probably.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:12

Yeah, that was gross. You know what's funny is I have not eaten pork since I saw this movie when I was 13. I refuse because of that scene.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:22

I understandable.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:24

I always go for that turkey bacon, turkey sausage. I will not eat pork. Thanksgiving's. I'm like, y'all better make a turkey because I'm not eating the ham. I don't know why. It just it stuck with me to the point where I literally just can't eat pork anymore. It's just no, absolutely not. And I know that's obviously not how pigs are prepared in slaughterhouses necessarily. I don't know. I don't want to know the detail. I don't want to I don't at least sans maggot, maybe.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:51

Yeah, sans maggots.

SPEAKER_07 1:13:53

No, because pigs don't sweat, so they have no way of removing parasites from their body. So all pork has parasites and you just cook them and then it's fine and you eat them, but I'm not okay with that. What? I too am not a fan of pork. Pigs can't sweat. They're yeah, that's why we have to cook scrouse.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:06

But why would they ground them up like that? Like literalistically, like what's the point? Uh I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:12

I just don't eat pork either. I know that scene grossed you out, but do you have a scene that like was the best of all of them?

SPEAKER_02 1:14:20

Hmm. Very interesting.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:21

It's tough for me. So I think there's a there's a lot of good ones in here to to pull from, and there's some that we could have done without, obviously. But it's it's hard to separate like the torture and the kills from like the rest of the story developing in my mind, like when I'm trying to pick out a scene. And that's probably again a genre issue for me.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:40

I kind of liked um the first scene, and not I guess not even standalone, um, or not the first scene, but um the scene where you have the doctor and she's in the bed, and you're just like, if you hadn't seen this movie before, you're not sure what's going on. And you know, when he's like, you know what I want, you know, a divorce, and you're thinking, oh wow, there's two separate plot lines, and I mean, I don't know, I kind of like that, and you're just kind of getting to know her character a little bit well. And then I think all the flashbacks with the um husband too, those I appreciated because I think like I was like, this guy is the biggest jerk, and then I was like, oh wow, he's just not handling like his grief in a way that like it, I mean, in a way that I would, so like I can't judge him for that.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:29

His toxic is just being exacerbated, that's fun.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:32

Exactly. Although I have been mentioned I in the purge, I would kill someone, but so if there was that person was in a saw trap, I'd be like, peace out, like I'm gonna keep going to the end, like but yeah, no, I I appreciated those sorts of scenes. But yeah, you're right, nothing really like stuck out to me. I think because I just enjoy these movies, um just all.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:55

I think if I had to pick one though, I know this the the leg breaking grossed out several of you, but that scene kind of shows us who Amanda is as a person, and I'm not gonna you know turn down an option to see uh to see Donnie Wahlberg again, because what a great actor. But um, I I like that kind of sequence of events. I thought it was cool. Um, because it's like, what what do you have to do to survive in something like this? And then even when you do that, even when you break your own foot, like do you do you make it out? Because probably not.

SPEAKER_07 1:16:25

Mac, I thought for sure you were gonna finish that sentence with, I wouldn't give up a chance to see Donny Wahlberg get killed again. Because that's the boat I'm in.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:33

Yeah, same. Paris made a face when you said Donnie Wahlberg, I'm like, yes, okay, so we're at least aligned on this. I can't stand them. But here's my thinking here, right? You there is a point where you can't bring yourself to like saw through your own foot, but when you saw through your own foot, is that not just like a particular level of pain, and then once detached, like you have that same amount of pain consistently, right? Versus then breaking and crushing your foot and all the bones in it, and then you have a pulsing level of pain and then additional pain when you put pressure on it. I feel like you'd be better off with no foot.

SPEAKER_07 1:17:10

I don't know. For some reason, bludgeoning to me feels less painful than like serrating the skin. I'm not sure why.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:16

I wouldn't be able to cut my own foot off.

SPEAKER_07 1:17:18

I've never done either.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:19

You wouldn't be able to get through the bone without hacksaw, though. Somebody did.

SPEAKER_07 1:17:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:23

I know, but was it that wasn't real life though? It's still a movie. You don't know if it could actually, I don't think it could.

SPEAKER_07 1:17:30

That was a plot hole.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:32

Well, if we're checking into the to the movie universe, I feel like the the process, right? Equivalent pain in very different ways. But I'm thinking about like the future, right? Like, like once you get out of this shackle, what do you have to face and traverse? And putting a lot of weight on that is gonna make you fall and stumble. Not saying you'd be better off with no foot in terms of like not falling, but I feel like the amount of pain, you're just like inflicting more bad on you. It's like an extra level of inconvenience.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:03

And depending on how badly it's bludgeoned, they may have to take it off anyway.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:06

Exactly.

SPEAKER_07 1:18:06

I would have to say that my favorite scene. I honestly, it's stupid, and they did flash back to a scene like two minutes ago, but I enjoyed the exposition and like the the supercut of all the events that kind of painted the the other picture of what was going on with like Amanda's game. But then I also really liked the original the setup with the doctor where he was like, My heart rate is tied to this collar that's gonna shotgun blast your head off if I die. It reminded me of Speed, but in like a much more intimate sense.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:37

That's a very good comparison.

SPEAKER_07 1:18:39

And I like that.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:41

A small problem with that portion, and I guess in retrospect, looking at the end of the movie, there was a bit of a time delay there between flatline versus shotgun collar explosion head. But is there not the possibility that he could flatline during a procedure and then she could then resuscitate him? So what happens if I was thinking about that? What is it?

SPEAKER_07 1:19:00

What is even they didn't really care? Yeah, they let her open up his brain. That's crazy thoughts.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:07

Yes. The part where he's having the seizure and he like pukes blood into the oxygen mask. I can't stand that part either. While I said I hate the ending, which I do, I do love seeing Amanda get so worked up about everything that has transpired, about the jealousy that she's feeling toward Lynn because she thinks that they have a connection. When if you look at her hair and how it's grown, it's been about two years, give or take, that she's been his apprentice. And it's really just her love for him. And it is like a father-daughter love where she really just looks up to this man. She really would give anything for him, and she's seeing him connect with someone else, and that really just brings out like a just virality within her. I just love her entire the the whole ending where she's just screaming, like, fix me. Like, why did you why are you choosing her? And she's just going mad about it. I just love that, and that's the scene that made me cry. Like, I was not expecting that because I've actually performed that as a monologue in acting in college, and I know that scene word for word, but it just something about it this time just like made me cry. And I'm just, I love Amanda so much, and I know that a lot of people Amanda's either a you lover or you hate her. And I don't relate to female characters very much at all. I really can count on maybe one hand, the female characters that I even like in any kind of fiction. That's just me. I usually gravitate towards relating to male characters, but Amanda is my favorite female fictional character of all time. And I can't even say why. I just really feel drawn to her. And it's not because I'm a murderer, I swear I'm not a murderer. I just really love the way that she feels for John. And she just really would do anything to please him. And when she doesn't get that in return, and she realizes that it's all been a ploy, and she's the one on the chopping block, that just really gets me. Probably because, like from past experiences, thinking you know someone, you trust someone, and then you just get completely thrown under the bus. That just really struck a chord with me this time. And it's something that I really love about Amanda and her character.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:36

And and to be honest, that was probably my favorite part of the movie was that culmination of events where it all comes together and we realize why they're all tied in together and why he's been doing this the whole time, and just like the viewer realizing it, I think, is such a great thing before any of the other characters do in the film.

SPEAKER_07 1:21:56

To be honest, I wasn't the biggest fan of Amanda. I'm um team follow the rules, it's not that hard. Uh so I didn't have a lot of sympathy for her, but her performance was great, and I would also love to see footage of that monologue being performed at like an acting event because that's a brilliant choice. Um, but as much as I did enjoy this movie, worst part has to be the scene where you see John in that beanie painting the doll because he looked like a geriatric slim shady, and I laughed out loud. Oh, like I never need to see this. Cut this from the movie and reprint it.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:28

Waiting for him to start singing Stan or something. Dear Slim, our roachy book just going.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:33

I think the worst part, if I had to like pick one, was I think the um in each of these traps, um, Jeff has to pick between, you know, something that he's been holding on to or some and like someone's life, you know, and if he's going to be the person like to, you know, be able to get through this and you know, save everyone and be like, okay, cool, like I'm grieving, but I'm going to give people a second chance. Um just like I'm being given a second chance, supposedly, whatever, in some messed up jigsaw way. But hey, it works in a movie. Um doesn't? But because it seems like it doesn't work out. Yeah, you know, there's there's still a bunch of movies, so no one's learning their lesson, I don't think.

SPEAKER_07 1:23:18

Nobody wins.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:19

In fact, I'd argue it gives him just a god complex where he thinks saying I forgive you actually does something for their life. I don't know. It's weird.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:27

Keep watching the movies, okay? Uh you learn way more about it. I'm pretty sure Freezer Chick doesn't come back as a popsicle.

SPEAKER_07 1:23:34

A sexy popsicle.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:36

To me, the odds were always something hard for him to choose um between. But like when you get in the scene with the judge, I was like, oh, I mean I know there was that backstory with the stuffed animal and his daughter taking it. But like to me, I didn't think there was m much to give um for him to give up just to burn the things and burn the items of uh of Dylan. I was just like, oh, this is the I I under I mean, I don't know. Maybe because I don't have many things that I have attachments to like that. One, they've also been taken away from me recently. Um, but uh uh but I think I mean I guess there are some possessions that I do have that I would be upset if they were gone, but I guess I just didn't feel like the stakes were super high. Like I'm I would just press the button and get but that's just me.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:26

Interesting that you say that. So I'm not attached to a lot of the material possessions that I have acquired. However, if I'm given something, it like travels with me forever. So the only thing that I could connect with Jeff on, and what made me tear up with just a little bit was the dynamic with his daughter taking the stuffed animal. And it was just like I just wanted to sleep with something, right? Because you like this movie focuses so much on the grief of Jeff very selfishly, instead of like you know, diving more into like how you know Lynn is processing everything, obviously not well and how it's impacting their marriage. But then you see this little girl who just lost her brother and has also lost her parents, and she loses her parents before she ever loses her parents, and that is that was the one thing that I was like, fuck. Because I mean I'm someone who like grew up with two older brothers, two older sisters, and that was the emotional pull for me. So when he had to burn those things, I thought he wasted a lot of time and a lot of traps. I think lingering at that was the only excusable time he ever wasted time.

SPEAKER_07 1:25:29

Wow, this is a shocking revelation. That actually reminded me that the scene with the daughter was my other worst part because he was so mean to that little girl. And I've never lost a child, but I feel like being mean to the one child you have left is not the way to go.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:44

For sure. I think he was an asshole, and it was also the worst, one of the worst parts of that movie. But I think that dynamic and just like her situation was the most emotional point for me.

SPEAKER_07 1:25:56

Oh, I feel that. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:57

Yeah, I'm ex I'm just someone who's extremely sentimental with whether it's things that someone has gifted me or things that I have. Like I'll I have notes from my friends in high school and I graduated 10 years ago. You know, I I keep I keep everything. I honestly, if one of my personal possessions that is my very favorite thing in the world, is a prop suit that I won at a prop auction that Will Graham from the Hannibal TV show Hugh Dancy wore in the show. That's probably my favorite thing. And if that was in there, I'd be like, if it's not immediate family, I'm like, bye. That's my prop outfit that Hugh Dancy wore. Sorry, good luck.

unknown 1:26:40

You know?

SPEAKER_05 1:26:40

But uh I will say that um, like I how I said I hate the ending. I find it so unnecessary how the little girl was taken, she didn't do anything, you know. Why was she put somewhere and it says she's running out of air, blah, blah, blah. And it's just like that, I think was so unnecessary. And like I get it's something that's supposed to tug at your heartstrings and be like, oh my gosh, now he's locked in, she's dead. Whereas little girl, what's gonna happen? And I remember very, very vividly the first time watching this movie with my mom and her being so upset about that. She's like, What about the little girl? What about the little girl like freaking out? And I was like, I it didn't bother me too much, but it's it just really is unnecessary. And like, not to go into spoilers for further on in the films, but if you know some of John's backstory, that does not fit his character whatsoever. Honestly, it made no sense. I think that part was just completely extra, just to add like a another little stab to the heart.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:44

I think you know, focusing on that family dynamic, I think one of the best parts of this movie, and one of the one of the real opportunities for me to consider grading this differently was the complexity of Lynn's character. Take away her performance. But the complexity of her, right? Like with all this tragedy that has befallen that family, you know, I was someone who like I I don't remember what it felt like to see this in 2006, but I do remember that that's not her husband in the beginning. There's like a level of casual dismissiveness that she has with him. Like I feel like it's hard to believe that they would be married.

SPEAKER_07 1:28:22

That's the part I remembered too.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:24

Yeah. So but looking at her, you know, this like the way she moves through the movie, the way she's like having to to nev to navigate her own grief and still be in that stressful of a position where she has lives depending on her. And to see her having to contend with that, right? Like she goes in, there's a little boy there. Her son's dead. It's like all this flavor that you get in retrospect. Re-watching it, I absolutely love her character. And I feel like the biggest tragedy of this is her death. Because I feel like it wasn't necessary, she should have been released. I think her daughter deserved her mother at the end of it all.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:02

I agree with that. Also, um, I realized that I found a kind of plot hole when I was watching it today where Amanda calls Lynn self-centered, and later in the film, you find out that she didn't know any of Lynn's backstory. And she didn't know that Lynn and Jeff were married, she didn't know any of that. So why did she call her self-centered when she didn't know that whole backstory? That made no sense. Uh, because the whole thing with her cheating and that whole not being known, and you think that that's her husband, but it's actually just someone she's having an affair with the whole time. She didn't Amanda didn't know about any of that. And so why did she say, whenever she grabs her and she said, Did I bring you to him or did I bring your self-centered ass here? And that makes no sense if she didn't know her backstory. Like you just met her. How do you know she's self-centered? Like, what's going on there? So I kind of found that little thing in there.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:02

Yeah. The only thing I can even think to try to chalk it up to is if like she's implying that she must be self-centered if she doesn't feel disturbed emotionally by John's condition and she's not as passionate. But that is a big reach. Like that that's definitely an issue.

SPEAKER_05 1:30:18

Yeah. Well, I I don't know. I may be wrong, but I just I don't know. I found that and I was like, oh, okay, she's calling her self-centered because she's cheating on her husband. Her little boy just died. She's leaving her husband and her daughter to grieve alone. So you think that it's about that, and then I totally forgot at the end when John said you didn't know this whole thing. It's that doesn't connect to me.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:40

It's so interesting how some of like the side characters are are some of the best characters in this film. So Timothy Young, for instance, just seeing that grief you know happen when we get the flashback of of the accident. Um I mean, we don't know anything about the character up until that point. We just know this is the person that we've been searching for this whole film, apparently a child killer. But then we see this like grounding in reality where it's like this accident happened, and he's just absolutely just torn to bits. And I I found him to be one of the most realistic people in this film because of that. Because, you know, this thing wasn't on purpose, it was an accident, and now it makes more sense why the sentence was perhaps so short, maybe why there was some leniency, and just seeing that like remorse, seeing that that grief, seeing just that feeling of guilt all in that like split second during a flashback to me. I just I don't know, I really connected with that.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:36

My sister and I have the same opinion on this uh character that like it's just one of those, well, it's Jeff, but uh it's just I'm just like you're taking so freaking long, either move it or lose it. Like, let's go. Like, I don't know, and I think that's just because I've seen these movies, I'm like, come on, I know time, time, time. Like, you gotta finish this, you gotta do this, you gotta do that. You've got a whole other like some more. You need to figure this out what you're gonna do. Um, and I know sometimes um the victims or whoever's playing the game is locked in a room sometimes, so they actually can't get out till they make a decision, but um, so maybe he has to watch that. But he was just so annoying to me. Like it wasn't, I I don't know, I just I don't know what it was. I just was very off put by his character, whether it was purposely done, or if I was like, he's a jerk, but I kind of feel bad, but like is his acting okay? I didn't know. Like I was like, maybe it's just really good acting and I can't see, I have no idea. That's something about him.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:39

Here's the thing, right? Like, I get the conflict as he's moving through the rooms. Like, do you really want to help the people who had a hand that you perceive in like what was the ruining of your life? It could be argued that that was a horrific, and I think it that's a thing that could ruin so many lives, right? But the it's like a compound effect where his actions afterward contributed to the ruining of his life. But to see the woman the the woman in the freezer die the way she did because he was so slow and then still take his time with everyone else, like that's when he's just cemented it cemented as a shitty person in my book.

SPEAKER_07 1:33:15

I think we can also say that he is an idiot because after the first door he went through closed behind him and locked, he didn't think to prop open the second door and got got the second time.

SPEAKER_05 1:33:25

That part, Alexis, when you're talking about how so slow he is, it drives me nuts. Like when he get finally gets the key and he's just like, Oh, where does this go? I have no idea. Just like poking it. It's like you're poking it in air, it's like you're not even trying to do it. Like and the guy, his head is like turning. It's like, come on, dude. And he's just, oh no, you're not picking out a soup or something, you're trying to save someone's life.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:51

Exactly. And he turns around and she's like, dead, like, what the hell, man?

SPEAKER_04 1:33:56

Timothy Young was part of a very tragic thing, and I can understand never like you know, being able to forgive someone for that. I'm just saying, if you look objectively, I think Timothy Young had more to offer the world than Jeff. Just saying it. And it said that he was a medical student too. He could have saved a lot of lives. I mean, for the life that he took, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:34:15

Yeah, and then Jeff's just over here just being a slow poke. Exactly. He literally could have taken his shirts and like used them too. I because I'm like, hmm, interesting. I know every time I see the traps, I'm like, how can I get out of this without with the least harm?

SPEAKER_05 1:34:31

That's the thing with the Timothy Young death is that it makes no sense because he says, Are you willing to take a bullet to save a life? And he does it without even getting shot. He shoots the other guy, you know, like he's not even in the way. And even when the judge is over there like messing with the keybox and he's like, Oh my god, it's like, dude, your arm is far enough down where you you could just stand to the side, yank it, you'll be fine. You know, like what like why are you people have depth perception, you know? You would he would be able to do it and be just fine. So why does it take so long to get the key when he Jeff doesn't even get hurt? It makes no sense. The whole positioning of that scene just makes no sense.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:07

It's like nobody's taking these things seriously enough in this film. That's that's what it feels like. He's just like strolling through this this maze and like, oh, they're dead. What's uh what's next? All right, and okay, I could save all I have to do is like stand on one foot and this guy stays alive. Like, maybe, I don't know, maybe it's worth it. Maybe not. It's like, dude, like take this seriously. Here's the thing: it's it's a box, there's a gun, there's a key in front of it. You should just look at that and be like, all right, get it from the side, boom, pull it out, here's the key, unlock this dude, uh, and then I'm gonna beat him to a pulp because I'm so angry at him. But I should be the one to do it, not some other person twisting them in half. But no, he just he's like, but do I want to? I don't know, it's not a big deal.

SPEAKER_05 1:35:48

And then he's screaming at Timothy, he's like, I forgive him. It's like his head's turned around, he's not hearing you, bro. Like the fucking words do nothing.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:57

Okay, like you're at this point, you're only saying, I forgive you because you think that it's gonna help you survive. And that's the problem with Jeff.

SPEAKER_07 1:36:05

It's performative.

SPEAKER_04 1:36:06

Exactly. Jeff moves through the world unchecked by any bad circumstance that is not just suddenly the death of his son. It's like you can tell that he's never had to struggle for anything, he's never had to like you know, deal with any like real consequence until everything suddenly comes crashing down, and so he can't even understand that he holds people's lives in his hands, and uh he can't even break himself away from just thinking about anything but himself and the way he feels for that, and it's just so infuriating.

SPEAKER_05 1:36:36

And like when he just puts his hand on John Kramer's stomach, he's like, I forgive you, and then he's like zmm, and it's like no, like that's not forgiveness, bro.

SPEAKER_07 1:36:47

On the subject of John Kramer, uh, I want to say that he as a character sucks. He's definitely complex in an interesting way, but ultimately, horrible sense of like morals and just judgment in general. He's kind of an asshole and a douche for doing any of these things.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:05

He's more than kind of an asshole because an asshole.

SPEAKER_07 1:37:08

Yeah, and then just to be so pious to be like, I'm helping these people, like bitch, go go die. Just die now and rid the world of this. You are a cancer to society. But speaking of things going unchecked, Chris, if it were not for my favorite character, uh Detective Carrie, Donnie Wahlberg would have been completely unchecked throughout the entire second movie. So she gets my favorite character in this movie. I think I would have liked to see more of her here, because she was excellent at her job and had a gorgeous head of hair. Um, but you know, she had to go. At least it was like a fun, cool death, though.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:43

But did she have to go? I feel like she died because she was good at her job, and that's not fair.

SPEAKER_07 1:37:48

No, it's not, but neither is Jigsaw or Amanda.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:50

You know, Lynn, obviously I didn't want to die, but I I didn't see any need for like the whole time when they're like playing the tape for her, it's like, where's your fucking point? What did she do? Yeah, what did she do wrong? Are you even?

SPEAKER_07 1:38:03

That's when Amanda was off the rails.

SPEAKER_04 1:38:05

She has better hair than you. What is the deal? Definitely better hair.

SPEAKER_07 1:38:09

Hair envy. We all have it sometimes. Can we talk about Amanda in that like terrible little choppy wig for those few scenes?

SPEAKER_05 1:38:15

Right. That was like some party city wig.

SPEAKER_07 1:38:18

Yeah. The um, the like preview image that they use on HBO Max, which is where I watched this, has just a photo of her in that wig, like looking at John Kramer. And I was just like, what is that wig? And why is this being showcased in such bright light?

SPEAKER_05 1:38:32

I actually have a funny story about that. Uh, when I was in line to meet Tobin in Dallas uh a couple years ago, I was with my friends and there was this woman with her young son with her going to get his autograph. And they, you know how I don't know if you've ever been to a convention, but they have all of the pictures and all of that like laid out that you can pick up, and then they'll sign that, right? And it comes free with the autograph with all these prints. This is gonna make me laugh. But I had, I was standing right there with my friends and I heard the mom say to her young son, and they were looking through the pictures, which one should we have Tobin sign? And she points at the picture of her with that wig and all that. Uh, with John Kramer staying right next to Amanda with that choppy wig, points at and says, Oh, get the one where he's talking to the little boy.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:20

Because he's a little boy. And I was like, Oh my god. And I started busting out laughing. What a hilarious moment.

SPEAKER_07 1:39:28

A wig can make or break anything.

SPEAKER_04 1:39:30

It was very much like early 2000s, probably like a vaguely emo phase style wig. It was very specific.

SPEAKER_07 1:39:38

Very that.

SPEAKER_04 1:39:39

But I don't know, man. Okay, so the wig is like one element of Amanda, Amanda's character. I feel like that is like a defining phase in her life. But I will say that she did have one of the hysterical performances. So like there's like all this hysteria. I get why people would like be drawn to that, right? And and I understand that. So it's not even like it was the worst thing. It was just like, man, this character could have been so cool if she didn't just suddenly lose it over like a hand holding. However, I'm gonna really hope that there's like more to add to that. Like, there's some element in that letter, right? That that like explains something further. But the real hysterical performance was Lynn's overacting. The mesh like, ah, like suddenly just like a rage screaming, and it's like, fucking calm down. You are surrounded by things that are vaguely familiar with you. You don't need to just randomly grunt after you stop grunting. It's just what are you doing?

SPEAKER_05 1:40:38

It's just that it was disappointing. Her whole, her whole uh the whole like get off me, and she's like screaming. I I I know exactly what which part you're talking about, too. It's like, oh my god, that was so extra.

SPEAKER_04 1:40:50

Yeah, just dial it down like 30%, and then you might be where everyone else is in this movie. Read the room, Lynn. Just read the room.

SPEAKER_07 1:41:00

But wait, that also just reminded me of the scene in the beginning where Lynn is like, after she operates on that young boy, and the other nurse is like, what's wrong with you? The Lynn I know would have been here an hour ago, right on the scene. And it's like her son died, maybe be a little compassionate to her situation. I wonder why she was reluctant to come help in this situation.

SPEAKER_05 1:41:19

Right, it was very Gray's anatomy.

SPEAKER_07 1:41:21

Yeah. So fuck that nurse.

SPEAKER_04 1:41:22

Good thing she did help because that other guy was about to do something real wrong. It makes me question the cred the credentials of the rest of the medical staff there. I will safely say though, that uh in spite of how much I like to Lynn, in spite of the other things that I can appreciate about this movie, I will I am very comfortable in stating I will never watch this again.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:43

Are you gonna watch any other of the other ones?

SPEAKER_04 1:41:45

Yeah, I will watch it when we have to review it for the podcast. I'm not gonna inflict that upon myself because here's the thing, right? When she has to. Right. When I when I have to. Because here's the thing. Why am I gonna watch something knowing that I'm probably not gonna like it and then just like wanna like dread it, right? Like I'd rather go into those episodes thinking fresh, like, okay, I haven't seen this before, open mind, etc. I feel like it's different just like watching it, just to watch it, and it's not something that I already enjoyed and am inclined to enjoy, so it feels like it'd be a waste of an opportunity.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:18

Chris, I'm gonna be a little bit different from you here. So I think if you start watching Saw, the OG, you should get through number three. I think it's it's kind of part of an essential story in my mind, having seen all three of them a couple of times. I do feel that it wraps it up kind of well. And I mean, for me, that was the point where I stopped watching Saw, but I think obviously we've been encouraged to keep going. And many people I think will and probably should, you know, if this is if this is your cup of tea. I think if I had just seen one and two, I would have missed something had I not watched this film. So I I do think it has some rewatch value. Will I watch it again? Probably. Probably just because I'll I'll end up you know what I mean. Not I'm not gonna make a deliberate thing of like every you know third Thursday of the month or something, but I think it's gonna be one of those things where it's like, all right, I'm gonna watch Saw 4 and Saw 5 eventually. Um, and then I'm gonna be like, all right, what exactly happened in three? I'm gonna go re-watch that.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:15

You might want to watch four and five fairly fairly soon, so you can understand what happened in three.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:21

Well, we'll I mean they go in sequential order, but don't worry.

SPEAKER_04 1:43:25

I'm sure those are previously on every Saw Ever. Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:28

You know it's gonna come up in the lineup.

SPEAKER_07 1:43:32

I will watch this movie again. I have rewatched the original many, many times. I rewatched the second one many, many times, but I had never rewatched this third one. Um, I don't know why. I think I it was after I got to that point where I was like, eh, saw. Uh, but I'll definitely watch this again. It's solid and like Max said, like it's part of a little trilogy. What about you, Jordan? Are you gonna rewatch this? Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:43:55

Of course.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:56

The excitement on that.

SPEAKER_05 1:43:59

I like how y'all even ask.

SPEAKER_04 1:44:01

Yeah, so I know this is your favorite film in the entire franchise. Do you think you might ever re-watch?

SPEAKER_05 1:44:07

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:08

Are you on a schedule? Do you do you re-watch these on like on a regular basis like we do some of our other films?

SPEAKER_05 1:44:13

I like with any hyperfixation I have, I bounce between hyperfixations. I one second I'll be playing the same video game over and over for like two weeks, and then I'll be like, oh, it's time to rewatch that movie I watched that I became obsessed with years ago, and I'll watch that over and over for about two weeks, and then I'll bounce around. That's I'm really, really bad at consuming new media that I've never seen because I'm like, okay, I'm in a bad mood. I'm gonna watch something that I've already seen that I know is good because I don't want to spend my time on something that I don't know is good or not. So I have a really hard time uh consuming new media for that reason, but I just bounce around, honestly. I have like 10 things that I'm obsessed with and I just bounce around. And so I'll I probably have my Saw phase where I'll rewatch all of them at least once every six months. Um, but I have before this, previously when I had to re-watch it today just so that it could be fresh in my mind, I hadn't seen any of the Saw movies in probably about two or three months. So uh it really just depends on what mood I'm in, you know?

SPEAKER_07 1:45:22

Yeah, I'm just hyperfixating on the term hyperfixate, which I'd never learned until now. And it's my whole childhood and life now.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:30

Yeah. I thought it was my toxic treat. Same. But I guess it's not a toxic treat.

SPEAKER_07 1:45:34

It's a uh I'm reading about it now. It's a coping mechanism that can sometimes be too much, which is when you like use it as a method of avoidance, which is hello, my whole life. Yeah, right. Um so I'm gonna fall down a rabbit hole reading about this.

SPEAKER_04 1:45:47

Yeah. And you know, Jordan, it's interesting because you mentioned earlier that you discovered a couple things, right? You discovered a plot point, you f you felt these emotions for the first time. I'd be curious to know if there's a lot more that you learned about this movie, and I'm sure there is to learn on every watch. But let's take a pause on that thought and actually learn a little bit more about this movie with Max Factor Fiction.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:11

Yeah, let's do that. Let's start out with number one. Does the bathroom scene look familiar? The original saw set was reused for three, as is from the first Saw film, as Saw 2 was greenlit upon the original's release, and Saw 3 was greenlit during Saw 2's release.

SPEAKER_07 1:46:25

Okay, I actually know the answer to this because Mac, you used this in the Factor Fiction for the second episode, I'm pretty sure. Or it somebody did. And the answer is no, it's not the same bathroom.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:35

Fiction.

SPEAKER_07 1:46:36

Yeah, fiction is what I meant.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:38

Well, you're both right. Jordan, why are they right?

SPEAKER_05 1:46:41

So Saw 3 didn't actually use the bathroom set from the first two Saw films because they had destroyed it. So what they had to do was they had to go with the bathroom scene that was set up for Scary Movie 4. Scary Movie 4, if you don't know, the very first scene has Dr. Phil uh it's a spoof of Saw, and so they ended up using that scene that they created for the Saw 3 because it was an exact duplication.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:08

Oh, that's interesting.

SPEAKER_05 1:47:09

And impressive.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:10

It really is that they got it so perfect that they were able to use it in a legitimate Saw movie. Well, number two, Rob Zombie, Chris's favorite Halloween remake director, helped edit Saw 3 to tone down the gore.

SPEAKER_04 1:47:23

I've never felt more hate in my heart than I do right now.

SPEAKER_07 1:47:27

That feels fabricated. I'm gonna say fiction.

SPEAKER_05 1:47:30

Yeah, I'm gonna say fiction too.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:32

Is it a fiction though, Jordan?

SPEAKER_05 1:47:34

That's true. What? Uh Rob Zombie act the first cut of Saw 3 was actually rated NC17, which could not be shown in theaters. And so they had to get Rob Zombie, who of course is very uh famous for Devil's Rejects and all his other films, and he knows what is allowed on screen and what's not. So they asked him along to help edit the film so that they could get it down from an NC17 to a R rating, and his work isn't even credited in the credits.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:05

Wow, it's absolutely wild. They sent it over to the NPAA Ratings Jedi Council seven times before they actually got it the uh the last time there. Moving on to number three. Those disgusting-looking pig carcasses were bought from a local pig farm, and the pig grinder scene had to be filmed quickly as to not deal with rotting swine flesh on set.

SPEAKER_07 1:48:25

Oh god, I don't know. Um, I'm gonna say fiction on the grounds that I don't know. I though there were too many pigs. I don't think you can buy that many rotted, nasty pigs. I hope not.

SPEAKER_04 1:48:38

I love how sometimes we feel like we have to define why it's a fact or a fiction as if we're getting bonus points.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:45

Well, I always like to show my work.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:47

I know the answer says fiction.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:48

It is. It is indeed fiction, but I know that Jordan has some cool details about this.

SPEAKER_05 1:48:53

So they're actually made of foam latex, the pigs, but the maggots were real. Um yeah, the maggots were real. They actually got them to stick to the fake pig carcasses by using honey. They slathered them with honey and then they put the maggots on there. They were disinfected maggots, but really, how disinfected could you get maggots?

SPEAKER_04 1:49:13

You can't. That's the answer.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:15

I actually believe that because I fully saw those maggots wiggling. Look, they're just tasty snacks built into a tasty snack, that's all.

SPEAKER_05 1:49:23

Slimy yet satisfying.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:28

And now let's go to the last one for the night. Not only does this film have the longest runtime of the series, but it also is the highest grossing.

SPEAKER_07 1:49:36

I'm gonna say fact because this movie was a solid two hours long, which was a surprise to me because the other two were a tight one and a half hours. Um, and also the third one I feel like was like the peak of the saw hype, so I could see this being the highest grossing.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:50

I don't know, because I feel like they hyped a jigsaw, but um I have no idea on this, so I'm gonna say fact.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:58

Jordan, the last one. Is this a fact?

SPEAKER_05 1:50:01

Uh that is a fact. It is the longest runtime, and it's also the highest earning with 164.9 million US dollars.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:10

That's a lot of dollars. Twelve of those were mine when I saw this in theaters. Well, thank you all. That has been fact or fiction.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:16

Ooh, what an educational experience indeed. And thank you so much, Jordan, for coming through with the facts. You're welcome. Yeah, it it's good to balance out Max algorithm every once in a while because sometimes he gets a little bit easy to read for Paris and Alexis.

SPEAKER_07 1:50:31

That's true.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:31

Yeah, you guys have just started like disregarding the information and trying to pick up all his like subtle, subtle little ticks and personality traits.

SPEAKER_07 1:50:39

Beating the system.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:40

I don't know. He had like three commas in there.

SPEAKER_07 1:50:43

Feels like a lie.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:45

Now, obviously, we have discussed so much in this episode, and I think this has definitely been the most educational saw experience that we've had on the show so far. And there are a lot of things that we have left to say. Right? The conversation doesn't end here. It did get three slashes and two hacks from us, but we still want to know what you think. Jordan, where can our listeners find you?

SPEAKER_05 1:51:05

Uh so I recently changed my YouTube name to Spooky Jordy, which is uh J-O-R-D-I-E, like die at the end. Ooh, spooky. And very own brand. Yeah, so I I make a little of everything on my YouTube, but I decided that I'm gonna go towards more of a horror niche and do things just about horror, but every now and then show something else to show my personality. So if you're interested, if you like my pretty little voice, please come say hello on there. Also, I have an Instagram and a Twitter under Y Jordy, which is W H Y J O R D I E, once again, like die. So if you want to come say hello, please do so. I would really love to have you.

SPEAKER_04 1:51:46

Excellent. Well, speaking of Instagram and Twitter, there are still other ways that you can reach out to us.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:51

You know that you can reach out to us at our website, hackerslash.com, on our social media accounts on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. And if you have been a survivor of a trap of jigsaws, you can reach out to us at our Hackerslash Hotline. You can leave us a voicemail at 757-606-0128 or visit hackerslash.com slash contact to leave us an audio message.

SPEAKER_04 1:52:15

And that also goes if you think you know how to beat these traps.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:18

Or if you were shot in the neck and left to bleed out while your psychopath mentor lay dying in a hospital bed, you can send us an email to feedback at hackerslash.com.

SPEAKER_07 1:52:26

And if you've enjoyed listening to this episode, consider becoming one of our patrons. You can visit patreon.com slash hacker slash to earn cool perks for as low as one dollar a month. Also, check out hackerslash.com slash merch. There may be a new item there. Spoiler alert, it's a slasher enthusiast hoodie. Go buy it.

SPEAKER_04 1:52:43

We'll see you next time. Bye. Toodles.