SPEAKER_00 0:04

Oops, bitch, surprised. I remember you.

SPEAKER_03 0:11

Greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hacker Slash. If you've been with us before, hello again. You must be hungry. If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack, a total joke, a waste of time, or a slash.

SPEAKER_05 0:28

Totally killer. Unintended.

SPEAKER_03 0:29

We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, we're rating these movies with the perspective we've all gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast. This week I'm joined by the Superfly Space Guy Mac.

SPEAKER_06 0:43

Mirror, mirror on the wall.

SPEAKER_03 0:45

The gore lover Alexis, who's the fairest one of all. The cowardly creeper Ryan. I didn't have anything fun to say. And the Scream Queen Paris.

SPEAKER_00 0:54

It's me, I'm the fairest.

SPEAKER_03 0:56

This week we've got another supernatural staff pick, this time from Paris, the fairest one of all, apparently. But before we give up the goods, we have some follow-up.

SPEAKER_00 1:04

Thank you, Chris. I agree. So we recently reviewed a film called House of a Thousand Corpses. We remember this less than fondly, let's say that. I know Alexis loved it, um, but we wanted to hear what our friends thought about it. So if you recall, we were trying to campaign for this to be the House of a Thousand Hacks. Sadly, we didn't even come close because only 58% of our listeners gave it a hack, and 42% were on Alexis's side, and they actually really liked this movie.

SPEAKER_02 1:29

I'm glad because I really thought I was alone in this world.

SPEAKER_03 1:32

I'm sorry. I think we got a couple creative names thrown out, and we still have a house of mostly hacks.

SPEAKER_00 1:38

Truly, yes. It's it's the the hacks are in the majority. We've reclaimed the house. Uh we have a couple comments from our listeners. From Jason on Facebook, he said, definitely a hack for me. This was a major disappointment. It's basically a music video set to long. Zombie really didn't understand the difference between a music video and a movie with regards to pacing and its super weird cuts. Captain Spaulding was the only thing I really enjoyed. Sorry, but hack, hack, hack. And that does count as three.

SPEAKER_03 2:02

Totally agreed, Jason.

SPEAKER_00 2:04

We also have a comment from Darren on Twitter who said, This is a hack for me. This movie suffers whenever Captain Spaulding is not on screen. The Devil's Rejects is much better, although it has a couple of problematic scenes.

SPEAKER_05 2:15

A couple?

SPEAKER_00 2:15

Okay. We also have a comment from Manny on Instagram who said, I just finished listening to your House of a Thousand Corpses episode. What a great episode. I can say it was a slash to me. It was overall an enjoyable watch for me. I watched that movie last year, and it was at first a tough choice. I was nervous to watch this by reading the title and the cover. I was like, this is gonna be some graphic shit, but it wasn't, so that's good. I do hope you guys do watch and review the other two installments because after I watched the first movie, I was really interested where the characters and story would go, knowing there were two films after this one. Rob made characters I like, and I was interested where they'd end up next.

SPEAKER_01 2:48

Ooh, I have to be honest. And maybe I did know this before, but I don't I didn't realize that there were two sequels.

SPEAKER_00 2:53

One of the themes from the listeners that enjoyed this movie and gave it a slash was that they really liked the family, uh, and that's something that comes back in the later two installments. But truly, the breakout star of this was Captain Spaulding for everybody. Even the people that hacked it, they loved him.

SPEAKER_01 3:07

Yeah, I totally agree. I feel like he's the thing that comes from this movie. Maybe uh the sequels are like wine and they get better with time.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

Bringing it back to Captain Spaulding, uh, he was actually so popular that one of our friends Drea on Twitter did a full makeup look inspired by his spooky clown makeup, and then also shared a few disturbing little TikToks. So we shared that on our Twitter. Check that out. She did a really great job.

SPEAKER_03 3:29

Drea is a queen, truly. Her makeup was impeccable.

SPEAKER_00 3:33

Yeah, she really brought that character to life.

SPEAKER_03 3:35

I wish I could do my just like any of my makeup like that. I want to see Ryan do it.

SPEAKER_02 3:40

Ryan's been really good at her Halloween costumes in the past. She's like, I'm definitely not doing that.

SPEAKER_01 3:44

Like, I'm not vulgar enough for Captain Spaulding. I would be like a mute Captain Spaulding.

SPEAKER_00 3:50

Just a sexy clown. Finally, I just want to give a very special shout out to one of our newest patrons, Brittany R. Not to be confused with Brittany P. Uh, she actually left us a comment as well. She said, Yes, House of a Thousand Corpses may be my chance to get my boyfriend into the pod. Here is his leg tattoo. Zombie isn't my fave, but whatever it takes. And then she actually shared a picture of her boyfriend's leg tattoo that has Captain Swalding's face on it. And it was epic. Really, Brittany, thank you so much. One for being a patron and supporting us, but two for converting your boyfriend into being a listener as well. I hope that worked.

SPEAKER_01 4:22

Yes, when I saw this comment, I was concerned that possibly he wouldn't enjoy our podcast after our episode of trashing this movie that he has a tattoo of. Um, so hopefully he's a good spirit about it and enjoyed the things Alexis had to say.

SPEAKER_03 4:35

Yeah, no, it's okay. Alexis redeemed us, it's fine.

SPEAKER_01 4:38

Yeah, she's our only hope.

SPEAKER_02 4:40

Yeah, holding y'all on that episode for sure. It's okay.

SPEAKER_00 4:43

Thank you again, Brittany R. And please let us know if your boyfriend enjoyed the episode. And that's our follow-up.

SPEAKER_03 4:48

All right, well, this week it's all about a mirror mirror on the wall and figuring out who's the most psychologically stable one of all. Now, in recent years, director Mike Flanagan brought us 10 episodes of The Haunting of Hill House. The bingeworthy series alternates between two timelines and explores the paranormal experiences a group of siblings endured. Experiences which ultimately caused them to flee their home. Experience which continued to haunt them in their adulthood. Well, a few years before he tried his hand at interpreting Shirley Jackson's novel, Mike Flanagan took a shot at his own tale of siblings coping with supernatural childhood traumas. After creating a short film exploring a man's quest to prove a mirror was behind his father's heinous actions, Flanagan was approached to extend that story into a feature-length film, a film that would be strikingly similar to the approach he used with Hill House many years later. This week, we're talking about Oculus. Now, obviously this is Paris' pick, but who else has seen this before?

SPEAKER_01 5:41

I, of course, have not seen this, hadn't even heard of it, which I felt like was very weird for a horror movie that came out in 2013. It seems like something I should know about.

SPEAKER_02 5:50

Yeah, I definitely had heard of this, um, for sure. I I don't know why, it just didn't grab my attention at the time to watch it. So yeah, I've never actually seen this either.

SPEAKER_01 5:58

I feel like it's the name. Like this name doesn't reel me in, you know. I feel like that might be why I got overlooked.

SPEAKER_05 6:04

Yeah, this is one I missed out on as well when it came out. So first viewing for me.

SPEAKER_03 6:08

Yeah, I'd neither seen nor heard of this before, but you know, if you've seen one supernatural movie where a dad makes a terrible mistake when moving into a new home, you've seen them all. So I don't feel like I didn't miss much at the point. But Paris, I'm curious to know what is your connection to this movie and why did you pick it?

SPEAKER_00 6:24

Okay, so truly hearing that none of you had seen this before gives me such joy because one, this movie was advertised so poorly at the time. It came out around a time where there was like just shitty horror movie after shitty horror movie. And the trailer, if you look, if you look at it, it looks so bad. It uses one of the more gory like visuals as like the big clincher or as like the big catch. Um, but it doesn't tell you anything about the story. The trailers absolutely sucked for this, so I didn't watch it when it came out in theaters. I like you ignored it. And then I think it was an ex of mine or somebody. I randomly just watched this on like streaming one day, and I was like, oh shit, this is actually very different from what I thought it was gonna be. And compared to like all those movies that came out at the time, it was so original and very enjoyable for me that I've have always remembered it and it's remained in my like top ten horror movies since oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_03 7:16

Okay, okay. So that's high praise, especially for the guy who hacks so many things on the show. For the rest of us, obviously, since we hadn't seen this before, what were you guys expecting going into it? Exactly what it was.

SPEAKER_02 7:27

Um interesting. I hadn't seen anything. Um, I only can recall like the image um that they've used on the movie poster. But um I really figured it was about a mirror and an alternate dimension sort of thing and supernatural. I mean, clearly I wasn't that close, but I wasn't that far off either. I was just a little general.

SPEAKER_01 7:52

Yeah. I feel like uh the title is like meh, and then the picture that they use, like with the hands, right? That's like the main promotional image, and and it doesn't do anything for me. And you know me, you know I'm not about the trailer life, so it wouldn't have even mattered if I watched the trailer. I truly went into this movie with not a clue what I was gonna watch, not an expectation in the world, although I kind of expected not to like it, not because Parrish chose it, but because it like like he said, it was a time when horror was just kind of horrible, uh, and not in the good way, and and I was just expecting some more 2013 trash.

SPEAKER_02 8:30

Yeah, the title reminds me of that Jessica Elba movie, The Eye, where she gets like an eye transplant. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 8:35

I mean, it oh my god, I forgot about that movie, and I love Jessica Elba. Do I love Jessica Elba? Everyone does. No, I think I love the idea of Jessica Elba, but I remember that.

SPEAKER_05 8:46

I was expecting ghosts. I don't know. I was just just expecting it to be another like early 2010s. What do you call it? 20 teens? Whatever that era was called from 2010 to 2020. Um, I was expecting just another silly ghost story. And like Ryan, I expected it to not please me because of that.

SPEAKER_03 9:06

That's totally fair. I didn't have many expectations for this movie outside of it being a generic supernatural movie. I I mean, like with the promotional image being hands buried under skin, it's like, okay, is this going for like a see no evil type situation? I I thought it would look better than it really is. Like it's gonna be a very superficially pretty movie. We watched Annabelle Creation for this show a couple years back, and it's a beautiful movie built on a really bad foundation, like kind of shaky. And that's generally how I feel about about a lot of supernatural things. I think I also expected, yeah, terrible decisions made by the characters, spooky specters like you, Mac, and a lot of jump scares. I think I was pleasantly wrong about a few of those things. We did get some of them, but how are you guys feeling while you're watching this one?

SPEAKER_02 9:52

I felt pretty intense. Um, at least it starts off with, in my opinion, um, some mystery, and then I think I'm like trying to figure it out, but it the jump scares really had me going. So I was definitely like entertained throughout the movie.

SPEAKER_05 10:07

Yeah, I was entertained as well, which is surprising because I'm I'm typically not into ghost, ghoul, that kind of supernatural kind of stuff, but I really looked past it and just let myself be entertained by the story. The other thing that I was, you know, feeling while watching this was typically I don't like I don't like going back in time or forward in time or flashing back or flashing forward. And the kind of multiple timeline thing we're getting here, I found like it added to the story. So when I'm watching it, these kind of I don't know, like tricks, I guess you'd call them, I would usually be put off by, but I was actually getting into it. Um so that was that was a big one. Just sitting there thinking, like, man, they actually are doing this well.

SPEAKER_01 10:48

Yeah, I actually totally agree with you. That's something that if you told me what was happening and described it, I would be like, eh, that sounds horrible. But then in this movie, like it it definitely instills the uncertain feelings in you as a viewer. Most importantly, though, this movie is about a mirror. And you guys know how I feel about mirrors. I'm creeped out by them. So I have a new tidbit to share because I've talked about mirrors so much on this podcast. So I discovered that there's a specific name for the thing that I've described many times, which is staring into a mirror. And they specifically say here in a dimly lit room, uh, not just, you know, a bright bathroom with a mirror. So staring into the mirror in a dimly lit room can create illusions either in your face, or you can see things kind of around you. It's honestly usually an old something, or you start to see like movement in your face, or uh a girl. And it explains kind of why a lot of people will like look into a mirror and see really similar things and how urban myths and legends would be born. Um, but anyway, it's called the Caputo effect. Uh, and he's like a he's a professor in Italy or was at some point, and maybe this is all made up and just something I found on the internet. I don't know, but it's exactly what I've always said staring into mirrors is really, really creepy. And I did not look into a mirror after this movie for like two whole days.

SPEAKER_02 12:15

It's funny you mentioned that because I was like, I'm watching this. I watched it last night, and I was like, you know what? Maybe I should wash my face before I watch this movie. And that was like and then I told myself, I'm like, you were such a bitch all weekend, you're not about to be a bitch right now. Like, watch this movie, you'll be fine, and you can wash your face afterwards. But I have to admit, right now, the bathroom has a candle in it, so I think that'd be pretty freaky. Don't be saying anything in front of my mirror, but you can't say anything.

SPEAKER_03 12:42

Don't I'm not gonna go ahead and summon Tony Todd.

SPEAKER_01 12:46

You literally don't have to worry about me looking in mirrors. For the past week, I like look away from mirrors every time I walk by.

SPEAKER_05 12:52

I'm not gonna say Candyman three times, I'm gonna say Tony Todd three times. Specifically told to summon Tony Todd, so I'm gonna try that too.

SPEAKER_01 12:59

That would be awesome. Next trying to summon Tony Todd.

SPEAKER_05 13:02

My bedroom has mirror doors on the closet, and it bothers me so much. I don't know what error that was they decided to do that, but why? Why do I want doors on my closet that are also mirrors?

SPEAKER_02 13:13

It's 80slash 90s. Oh, I want one because I have one on the inside because so I can see myself and get ready.

SPEAKER_05 13:19

Right, inside the closet, right?

SPEAKER_02 13:20

Yeah, outside is fine too, but also it makes the room look bigger.

SPEAKER_05 13:23

No, put it inside the closet where it belongs. Like you're laying in bed and you can see a reflection. I don't like that.

SPEAKER_03 13:28

Some people like it for exactly that reason.

SPEAKER_05 13:30

Oh, well, I guess there's that.

SPEAKER_03 13:32

I like that.

SPEAKER_05 13:33

Speaking of Paris, how was this for your uh you know, second, tenth, twentieth viewing?

SPEAKER_00 13:38

Uh so this was probably maybe like my third or fourth viewing, and it's the first viewing in maybe like five years. So it's been a while. Um ultimately a lot of the things I enjoyed about it were still fully intact. I had a very similar experience to when I first watched it, but I did, I was a little bit more critical this time, uh, because you know I was reviewing this for a podcast, so I I was able to point out a few pain points that make this movie not entirely perfect in my eyes.

SPEAKER_03 14:04

Yeah, I feel that. I mean, it's it's one that coming from you and having this high praise, I figured it'd be pretty good, uh, even if it's not my cup of tea. And and it for the most part was. I was fairly entertained throughout it. The thing for me is supernatural movies just don't excite me anymore. I think I'm out of that phase of my life where I'm like really into the ghosts and shit. And I think the really cool thing about this movie, the idea of it being a couple different timelines kind of interwoven, it's a shtick, and it's a shtick I've already seen. Having seen it chronologically out of order in what was done with the Haunting of Hill House, but going further back, 1998, I know we talked about Gornneth Paltrow last year on the podcast. She did a movie called Sliding Doors. Has anyone else seen this? No, no, it's actually one of my favorite romantic comedies, and it's a little bit of a drama as well. Basically, she's on her way to work and then she has to catch a train at some point. And the movie is based on two different parallel timelines on whether or not she catches that train. One, does she catch a train, find her boyfriend cheating on her? Or two, does she miss the train, stay with her boyfriend, and how does her life change through that? And it cuts back and forth in parallel the whole time. So I really enjoyed that style of filmmaking, and seeing it here, it was good. It's not the same, you know, it's it's markedly better, but it's just not, I think, fresh enough to me to be impressive, and I think that's a lot of what this movie relies on. I will say though that I was pleasantly surprised that I enjoyed the characters. I expected them to be pretty hollow in their performances and they're pretty solid throughout. However, I was disappointed in the ending.

SPEAKER_01 15:45

So, Chris, I agree with many things you said. I'm gonna retain a few of those points for a moment. I'm surprised that you didn't uh mention something that was my disappointment in this movie, which was how much it made me feel in a horror movie. And I know that it wouldn't bother you the way it bothers me, but I was like, not that I was like emotional, not because I wasn't like on the edge of tears or anything, but I like felt a lot in my heart. Yeah, I didn't feel anything in my heart.

SPEAKER_03 16:14

It all felt very shallow. Like I feel like I'm supposed to feel things, but it wasn't anything that I felt was like particularly emotional enough for me to like really feel invested in care. It's a shitty outcome for a couple people, right? But it's not something that I felt like you know, it's not like the perfection that fucking haunted me for days with what I was feeling.

SPEAKER_01 16:35

Yeah, I I'm not surprised by that, I guess, but man. And it's funny, I say that I'm like disappointed by the feelings because I don't like to feel things in movies. I'm not here watching a rom-com, right? I don't want to feel guilty or sad that something happened. But yeah, this one, this one got me in that way for sure.

SPEAKER_02 16:53

Yeah, um, funny you mentioned that because I was super surprised about how invested I was in the characters, just the siblings, and you know, she has it, and then you really get the story throughout, and especially some of the transitions, which one was one of my favorite parts of the movies. But just seeing these transitions and seeing them from kids, I think because my sister and I kind of have that same sort of like you know, bond. And yeah, the ending kind of is a tearjerker, in my opinion. I I feel like it could have been better in a certain way, but I'm probably not the same as Chris's. But but yeah, I was surprised at how much I felt during this movie.

SPEAKER_00 17:29

Having seen this several many times, I have very few surprises or disappointments this watch. Um, but I still vividly recall the things that surprised me the first time I saw this movie. One, just how different it was from what it was marketed to be. Um, and two, there's specifically a scene where this movie sort of front loads an exposition, um, and you kind of get all the cards laid out on the table in the most practical, logical way. And I was like, oh, I mean, if I was involved with some sort of cursed object, this is probably the approach I would take. And I don't think this is something I've ever seen a horror movie character attempt before. And from that point forward, I was like so hooked and invested, and that's really what stood out to me the most.

SPEAKER_05 18:14

You know, I have to wonder how it was like watching this in theater, because the thing that surprised me, and this is going to be a weird thing, is I started out watching this on a computer, and I'd say like 20 minutes in, I was like, you have to watch this on a bigger screen with more sound and better audio, and put it onto the TV. And, you know, it's a 55-inch TV, so it's like home theater territory. I mean, it's not like an 80-inch whatever, but 55 inches is huge in in in terms of TVs for me. And that is to me like the perfect size for home theater. And like it was a it was a better experience. A lot of movies you watch, and you could just watch them on your phone, you're like, okay, I've seen that now, and it's fine. But yeah, halfway through watching this on the laptop, I was like, no, this this actually deserves to be on a on a bigger screen, it's a better experience. But that being said, while watching it, even though it was better, it didn't seem any scarier to me.

SPEAKER_01 19:05

Yeah, I had this silly, silly thought where I was like, hmm, this might be one that Mac is actually afraid of, but this is not Mac's type of movie. I was thoroughly frightened. Obviously, like I said, I haven't looked in a mirror in weeks.

SPEAKER_02 19:19

Just kidding. I can still look in a mirror and looked after, I think because I was just like, oh, interesting. But the jump scares jump scares really got me. Like I was just just up in my seat, and I guess because I got a bigger TV last week. So um The jumping at you. Yeah, and I had it extra loud, but also had the subtitles on because the sound was kind of off, and at least in my opinion, but maybe because I'm deaf. But like they really got me, and I was just like waiting for things to happen, and something else would happen, and I was like, oh wow, this really really did get me. I don't think I was frightened in a sense where it kept me up at night, but um definitely while watching, it was really intense, and the jump scares got to me for sure.

SPEAKER_01 19:58

Might I add, you should definitely watch this movie with captions on, because there are things that are like whispered throughout this movie that I there is absolutely no way I would ever know what they were saying if I didn't have the captions on. So, anyone listening, if you're gonna watch this, put your captions on, just deal with it. It's worth it in this movie to pick up on the things you would have missed.

SPEAKER_00 20:18

For me, this movie doesn't rank very high on the fright factor. Um, a couple of the jump scares got me, Alexis, so you're not alone in that. I even like the super predictable ones, like a lot of them weren't the most original, um, but they still they still worked. But this movie it kind of scares me in like a a theoretical way, not in any kind of practical way. Like I don't think I'm in any danger. Um, but it kind of just like is a mind fuck in such a way where you're like, huh, what does one do in this situation? And there's not really an answer.

SPEAKER_03 20:50

Yeah, I think it's it's one where if you are faced with a cursed object, then sure this is a a practical way to go. However, I still feel like the easier answer is to just do nothing. You know what I mean? Like I feel like they go through a lot of trouble in this when they really could have just avoided the whole situation. I d I didn't find it scary, but I do think the atmosphere it builds is far better than other supernatural films I've seen. For sure. It definitely doesn't rely too heavily on jump scares. It does freak you out in in some really interesting ways. It doesn't work for me, but it I know it works for someone. That being said, I struggle with this inherent bias I have where I just want to see a fucking movie about supernatural shit and it's a haunting or whatever that doesn't involve all of this happening because a dad made the bad decision. Like, give me a movie where that doesn't fucking happen and I'll be so much happier.

SPEAKER_00 21:48

I mean, at this point it's a trope, no?

SPEAKER_03 21:50

I mean, you know what? Let the trope die. Let it die.

SPEAKER_02 21:53

I like that trope. That's interesting, you know.

SPEAKER_03 21:56

Why do you like that? It's just the patriarchy dooming his whole Family, and that's it.

SPEAKER_00 22:01

But it gave us Ryan Reynolds in sweatpants.

SPEAKER_02 22:03

I mean, dad's doobie wiling. Dad's doobie wiling.

SPEAKER_05 22:07

How dare you complain about the shining of the Amineville Mirror?

SPEAKER_03 22:12

Yeah, okay, look, are there a lot of haunted mirror in the movies? No. But I feel like originality is like how far do you have to whittle down for it to no longer be original? And this you don't have to go very far. You know, you take the mirror out of it, you got something that's like three different movies.

SPEAKER_05 22:29

Two degrees of Kevin Bacon.

SPEAKER_01 22:30

Yep. I don't know. I ugh well, I feel like I'm this is gonna be an episode where I'm maybe out here on an island by myself. Maybe Paris did the thing that I did and recommended a movie that actually he turned out to not like, and it's just me out here chilling. I felt like this is not the most original movie, and absolutely most of the elements are not original. But like, you know, you put fruits in a smoothie, and like apples aren't original, but your fruit smoothie might be, you know, as a whole.

SPEAKER_02 23:03

I feel like this is kind of an original movie. I don't know. I like that analogy. I think that it's very fitting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:09

I think you just have to add a few more things to that smoothie besides a one, like what what object is haunted. Today it's a mirror. In other movies, it's a doll, and it's the same path, no matter what.

SPEAKER_00 23:22

Okay, hear me out. I feel like the originality in this movie comes not in what smoothie is made, but what is done with the smoothie. Because all throughout time, we've seen characters spill the smoothie or drop the smoothie, and nobody's ever actually drunk the damn smoothie. And in this movie, they drank the smoothie, and it was very satisfying.

SPEAKER_01 23:40

I am on board with that continuation.

SPEAKER_00 23:42

Does that make sense? Like I feel like they took the most basic, like haunted object. They took some basic visuals, they took some basic jump scares, but they put them together and they tackled them in a completely different direction that at least I personally had not seen until this point.

SPEAKER_01 23:56

Okay, I think a better continuation for the analogy is okay, I think it's five years ago, right? They took the smoothie and they were like, hear us out, we're gonna put it in a bowl, and you eat it with a spoon. Basically, they made the first asai bowl. You know what I'm saying? Like, they did something new with the smoothie. It's a smoothie, but you put it in a bowl. It's it's unique, it's its own thing.

SPEAKER_00 24:18

And there's quinoa.

SPEAKER_02 24:20

And yeah, exactly. We put chia seeds on top. Chris, I know you have really strong feelings about that, but I know you mentioned not liking the ending per se.

SPEAKER_03 24:28

Yeah, okay, again, this is another one of those movies where on paper the ending is okay. You know, like I'm not mad at the resolution to the film, the road in which the ending is traveled to is too bumpy. And I feel like there are some tricks that are being pulled that just it's a little nonsensical. I it's a little incoherent at times. It's a little like we're gonna create this illusion of chaos and distortion, but we're gonna instead of making it a perfectly distorted picture, we're just gonna fucking hope you just go with it because it's distorted.

SPEAKER_01 25:02

And that's what it felt like to me. See, I don't agree with what you just said there, but I do agree about the ending. I truly hated the ending the most. It just, I don't know, just wasn't what I wanted, and it I don't want to feel things in a it was a great ending, I feel, for a movie, and then I hated it.

SPEAKER_03 25:21

I'm confused by what you said.

SPEAKER_01 25:22

Yep, me too.

SPEAKER_02 25:23

Yeah, it's because you can't give away one certain thing, which is probably what I'm thinking too. I mean, I thought it was a good ending, I it wasn't my favorite ending because of certain things and ways it made me feel. So um that would be the only thing I could say about this right now.

SPEAKER_05 25:41

I will agree that the execution of the ending was not bad. I just didn't like how they wrapped up the story. That's actually what bothered me was what happened in the story. The way they like the way they did the ending, like that was fine. I think it works. Um, I think it was well executed. I just don't I don't I don't like how it ended. Like story-wise. I don't I don't think like visually it was bad. I don't think it didn't make sense. I think it made sense, it was fine. They they play around, like Chris mentions, with with that chaos, with that distortion at the end. And okay, like I bought into it for a minute, but then we get to the actual final moments of the film, and I was just bummed out.

SPEAKER_00 26:18

For me, the first time I saw this ending, I totally gagged. Uh it was shocking. I didn't see it coming. Uh, but every time since then, it's to me, like once you see it once, it's so obvious from from every watch on. But I still I still enjoy the ending. Uh, I totally understand and can empathize with all the perspectives that you have as well because it's it's not a happy ending. Uh, and there are a couple questions that you're left with, like, mmm, I'm not so sure, but you kind of go with it where you suspend your disbelief. Um, but ultimately, I really enjoy this ending.

SPEAKER_03 26:50

Okay, well, it looks like we uh we all have slightly different flavors to our feelings on the endings, right? I think we're all in slightly different places, but let's see how this all shakes out into our ratings. Now take a moment, digest your thoughts, and let's ponder this movie for a moment. Now, while we're all pondering what our scores are gonna be, Alexis, what's our body count for Oculus?

SPEAKER_02 27:10

It's pretty low body count. I'm kind of disappointed for a haunted mirror, you know. But we have a body count of four this week.

SPEAKER_01 27:17

All right, and what about our animal report? We do have two good boys in this movie, unfortunately, we don't see anything bad happen to them on screen. They do both disappear one way or another. But um, you know, the it's nothing, nothing to be stressed over. It's okay.

SPEAKER_03 27:34

All right, so of all the bad feelings you both had in this movie, at least Dead Dogs is not one of us. Yes. The usual joy. Excellent. Well, let's go ahead and get into rating this movie Oculus from 2013. Was it a hack or was it a slash?

SPEAKER_05 27:48

Speaking of the usual joy, this was an unusual joy for me because I don't like ghost movies. They're almost always silly to me. And I was recently watching, there's like a new Amazon Prime uh show of some sort, Truth Seekers or something like that, and binge watched the whole thing, and it was and it's a comedy, uh, and it was funny, and I enjoyed it for that. But most ghost movies I feel like are comedies that don't realize that they are because they're just so silly. This wasn't really silly, and and I appreciated it. It took things seriously. Um, I mean, we get an explosive introduction to the story that plays out for characters in their lives and affects them in major ways, and that is followed up on, and that's useful. So I I think they did interesting things with the story. I think the characters um, for better or for worse, worked out really well, and I was entertained watching it, so it's a slash.

SPEAKER_02 28:44

This uh movie came out in 2013, like we've mentioned, and clearly a lot of us haven't seen it, and I've understood why, because there's a lot of movies that came out that I watched during that time, including the Texas Chainsaw Massacre, The Purge, Um, Curse of Chuck E all of these sort of movies. But I'm really surprised I hadn't seen this. Um, and I'm even more surprised I hadn't seen it because I actually enjoyed it. Um I don't I I thought it was a beautiful movie. I love these transitions that they have, and I can't wait till we talk about visuals um because I feel like this movie is filled with just so many things um everyone could take from it. And I love the characters. I don't know, I just thought it was a really interesting way to pr have a haunted movie, like a haunted, like a haunted supernatural object movie instead of something that we already know, which is okay, this is cursed, this is why it's cursed. Now we're gonna try to uncurse it, like decurse this object. Um, and I and I thought it was I thought it was original. So definitely giving us a slash, and I think our listeners should check it out as well.

SPEAKER_01 29:51

Well, this is this is very nice that I'm not on an island by myself here. So the way this movie felt to me was like overwhelming in the perfect way. Like not overwhelming in a sense that the movie, like watching the movie was too much, but more so in a way that I felt like what I might feel like if I was in these characters' shoes. Like if I was experiencing what they're experiencing, I feel like I would be this same level of creeped out, stressed, um, confused, unsure. And that's a lot of what I felt throughout this movie. I think it I'm this is not a hill that I'm gonna die on by myself here, but I felt like this felt super original to me. And I really enjoyed the multiple timelines that we got. Like it's almost it's almost like instead of trying to make sense of everything, instead of trying to apply logic to it, they did a really good job of just giving you a scenario where you could watch without trying to figure it out. And I feel like Chris didn't get on board with that, and I did, and it's maybe changed completely our opinions on that. And maybe I'm wrong. I'm okay to be wrong, but like I didn't try to understand, you know, this happened because of this, or or does this make sense? But I also didn't feel like I was being duped, you know. I didn't feel like I was pretending, I didn't feel like it was like a silly movie, and the intensity of the psychological elements of this movie got me. And to the point where at one point I was like, this is too scary. Like, no, I'm not afraid of a mirror, but I am afraid of thinking that I'm doing something that's not real. So obviously, long-winded slash for me. I really enjoyed this movie, and I don't know how I never saw it either.

SPEAKER_00 31:34

I really am so happy that you all have enjoyed this movie. Um, I had a feeling that at least some of you would enjoy it. Like we've established, like none of us saw this when it came out because one, it was marketed poorly, two, it looked like something that we'd seen before and everything else, it looked like everything else that was coming out at the time. Um, but I was so glad that I went back to watch this movie because, like Ryan, I felt like this was very original in its execution and in its approach. And Ryan, I also love that you said you sort of just kind of went along with this without trying to rationalize it, and you still enjoyed it because this movie tickled a part of my rational logical brain that up until I saw it hadn't quite been like tickled before, because it this movie takes a very scientific approach to something like completely void of science and supernatural. And for me, it was the first time I'd seen a character behave in like of the most believable way that I would behave in a situation like this, which is completely ridiculous. Um, but I really loved the characters in this movie. I love that even though I've seen this a few times, there's still bits of dialogue that I've picked up on that have kind of foreshadowed what happens later. And ultimately, I feel like this movie attempts to do something very specific and it succeeds in a real and tangible way, in that the characters are sort of struggling with this distorted perception. And as a viewer, you're also feeling that same distorted perception where neither you nor the characters in this movie know what's real. And that takes you along for the ride as if you are just as invested as these characters are. Um, so for me, this is an absolute slash. I am very happy that we all watched it together, and I can't wait to talk more about it.

SPEAKER_03 33:14

So here's here's the thing, right? It's certainly not the case that I'm not on board with sitting back and not trying to figure something out, right? Like my disbelief gets suspended in so many movies that we watch. I don't need to know or understand the origins of the mirror. You know what? Fucking mirror woke up one day feeling spooky, I'm here, I'm with it. Where I struggle though is this movie stacks what's written off as distorted or warped perspective, and it gets to the point where it stacks so many so high, it starts to tumble and they're like, ah, fuck it, it's distorted. And it gets like it's it's too much, right? Now that aside, for the most part, it's technically sound, and the level of skill required for shooting with so many reflective surfaces is astounding, right? And it's also one of those movies where an object or setting becomes a character in itself, and I can respect it. Now, realistically, for me, this movie is good for what it is, but it doesn't feel special. It doesn't feel like memorable to me. But ultimately, what it comes down to when it comes to movies like this is how much do the characters and how much do the performances sell the story in the spooks. And thankfully these characters sell it, so it's a slash, and it may not be a passionate one, but it's a solid one despite the mishandling of the third act. Because if you take that third act and just remove even a couple scenes from it, you have a much better movie. There are a few shots that you just absolutely do not need for this to be a near-perfect supernatural movie that would actually excite me.

SPEAKER_00 34:41

I can die happy.

SPEAKER_01 34:43

I am thoroughly impressed. I did not expect you at all to slash this, much less all of us.

SPEAKER_00 34:50

This was my dream going into this. I was like, if they haven't seen Oculus, there is a small chance that we will all come into alignment and slash this movie.

SPEAKER_03 34:57

Happy belated birthday, Paris. This is it.

SPEAKER_00 35:01

Thank you, everyone.

SPEAKER_03 35:02

Well, there you have it, folks. Oculus by Mike Flanagan himself is so far a universal slash. And of course, you know, we'll see if anything gets taken back at the end of the year, but I have a feeling this one's gonna be safe. You can find this movie streaming online. Go ahead and check it out, and then join us in the second half so we can get into the specifics of the movie, why Paris loves it so much, and the shit that I want to see taken out. See you in a bit.

SPEAKER_05 35:47

Strut out the door, make it to the club, and everyone laughs at your clash-astic catastrophe of an outfit. Is your mirror betraying you? Give yourself some love every day with the supportive mirror. Step in front of this gold-clad reflective godsend and receive a reaffirming message to get you off to the races in the best of ways. You'll receive crystal clear audio with a message such as, damn, you look good. Uh-uh. Don't wear that just because he bought it for you. Where are you going? Take me with you. Red and orange, what are you doing? Those shoes, those shoes, I wish mirrors could rock shoes. Are you losing weight? Because you look like you're losing weight. The supportive mirror. See the you you want to see in the world.

SPEAKER_03 36:35

Welcome back, folks. You are now entering the spoiler zone for Oculus, and spoiler alert, it has somehow earned a universal slash. Good job, Paris. Now we have a lot to unpack here, but before we get into the specifics of our ratings, we have the matter of gore to attend to. Alexis, you got some spooks to handle here. What's our gore score?

SPEAKER_02 36:53

I'm giving this a medium, and I think that's a good rating just because I feel like the gore you do see is pretty graphic. I mean, I I don't think we could all disagree on that. But despite that, I mean, there really isn't that many of those scenes. And I'm glad. I don't I didn't want the gore to take away from too much, but it was enough to like make you cringy in this movie. And boy, did I get cringy. Speaking of cringy, all these deaths were super sad, in my opinion. Like, so sad. So I think for my favorite death, I'm gonna have to go with um the most satisfying, which is gonna be the dad.

SPEAKER_04 37:25

Oh, sorry.

SPEAKER_02 37:27

Oh, yeah. A sense that he just needed to die because he started all this.

SPEAKER_01 37:31

You know, you're not wrong. I could see that. For me, it's a favorite because it's a least favorite, and it is the death of the fiance.

SPEAKER_03 37:40

Michael, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:41

Yeah, it was one of those moments where you're just like that's not real, but it do be real. And uh it's a favorite because of the way it goes into it, but I do wish it didn't happen. You know, I wish it ended up not being real. And when she pulls out that camera and he's there, I'm just like, oh god, the the horror, the horror is too much.

SPEAKER_05 38:02

When that happened, I knew that it was gonna be real because like we had that like little transition where it goes from the ghoul all of a sudden to the fiance, and I was like, there's no way they're gonna flip back and be like, no, it was fake, we got you. If they would if they had done that, I would have been upset. So I'm glad that it would that it was real. I mean, it's a bummer, but like for the for the actual film itself, I'm glad they didn't flip-flop that was back. I know. You know what? There's only four deaths in this movie. I'm gonna let you guys go first, and then I'll just double up because Alexis already took my number one. So who else have my bad? Yeah, if you guys already have another favorite kill, you go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 38:37

I mean, I loved the death of Michael because in a way it feels like this movie was somehow designed for my specific brain pathways because I thought the same thing. I was like, oh wait, that plate wasn't real, so that death can't be real. And then it was like, oh shit, she did kick that pot over before, and it was actually that. And I was like, oh fuck. So I'm just like real-time experiencing these revelations with the characters. But actually, my favorite death is the death of Kaylee, because the first time I saw this, that ending was such a gag to me that I was just like, oh, oh shit, oh, and I was speechless. I was it was so shocking, and it's something that never felt the same after the first time I saw it. Um, but it is still pretty satisfying because you kind of you get to watch it twice.

SPEAKER_02 39:20

My jaw was on the floor definitely for a while. I kept I was like, this has to be fake.

SPEAKER_01 39:27

Yeah. You're just like sitting there like, no. And and I felt that way through a lot of this, but definitely at that death.

SPEAKER_05 39:33

But they foreshadowed it with the father's death being shot and then actually cracking the mirror. So when the thing started swinging and we knew that she was like standing at the mirror in her reality, it like even my fiance while watching it, she was like, Oh, she's dead, right? Well, like before we even saw her body.

SPEAKER_01 39:50

There's a lot going on in that ending half. Sure, we know that I mean, of course, once it started swinging, I knew she was gonna die. But I didn't, I wasn't prepared. Like, it's still like you sit there for a second, yeah, you're in disbelief for a second, like, no, no, no, no, no, please don't be real, you know, like because you don't want her to die.

SPEAKER_00 40:07

It was a good head thwack. Yeah, it's also like a good gotcha moment because Brenton Thwaites is just like, oh, finally I have an opportunity to destroy this fucking mirror, game over, but actually it's the total opposite of what the intent was.

SPEAKER_01 40:20

Yeah, and like her and it's her setup and everything, you know, she put so much effort into it and so many fail-safes and everything, and then it gets her. Although I would like to note, I do personally feel that a weighted boat anchor would also break the mirror. I digress.

SPEAKER_00 40:37

I know, that's what I was thinking as well. I was like, is the mirror trying to use her body to like soften the blow?

SPEAKER_03 40:43

Exactly. He used her as a bumper. Self-preservation all around. Uh, you know, hats off to the mirror. Great stuff, terrific stuff from the mirror. My favorite death, a little non-conventional here. This mirror has a higher body count than what we get in the movie, right? Movie, we get fourth, that's it. But the lore that we get, the little glimpses we get, I wouldn't mind seeing like little short films about those deaths, right? Not the parallel timelines back and forth, just short and sweet, right? My favorite one, I think, is gonna come from there. 1965, Maria Wicker, bank teller, San Diego, who actually chewed through the live power line. And we just saw like that just grilled charred face. We saw a normal face, charred face. I was like, damn. Yeah, I saw that image and was like, oh my goodness, this is crazy. It reminded me of one of those Batman movies where Harvey Dent gets uh two faces.

SPEAKER_00 41:40

The mirror definitely has an impressive resume.

SPEAKER_01 41:43

Clearly overqualified for this position. I do have like a favorite kill that they like talked about, which was the dehydration in a bathtub. It's insane. Just there for no reason. And that was one that like sat with me, and I was like, that is some creepy mind control type of stuff, you know.

SPEAKER_05 41:59

I didn't even think about that because you can go how long without food? Like weeks, right? Without food or months or something. Me hours, but but you only make it like a couple days without water, right? It's pretty quick. It's pretty fast. Yeah. So but still, a couple days without water, uh I that would be totally horrible.

SPEAKER_01 42:17

In a bathtub. Insane.

SPEAKER_05 42:19

And you can't even drink it. The level of pettiness in this mirror. Well, you guys conveniently left one open for me, so I'm gonna go ahead and mention that Marie's death was my least favorite death. It it was a bummer, um, first of all, like story-wise. Second of all, it kind of seemed like you made this happen and now you're like putting her down. This just it completely seems wrong.

SPEAKER_02 42:43

For you know she's definitely chasing her kids around the house, okay?

SPEAKER_05 42:46

Yeah, but she wouldn't have done that if it wasn't for her husband.

SPEAKER_03 42:50

Exactly. She's manipulated by the whims of the glass and the man. That's it. Yeah, I think it's the mirror, not the husband, you know.

SPEAKER_05 42:57

How did that mirror get there?

SPEAKER_01 42:59

Yo, he's an art collector, okay? You ever been to antique shopping? He's a software designer. Listen, all right.

SPEAKER_02 43:05

Next time you guys just make on it because you thought it was cool and it had like, you know, I'm gonna remember this.

SPEAKER_01 43:10

Matt can understand. You go shopping, you move into a new place, you want to get some great stuff, but you don't want all new IKEA stuff. You I do. No, no, no. No, no.

SPEAKER_05 43:21

Yeah, I I would have my entire house completely IKEA it out, but you do have to have some compromise and get some pieces with character.

SPEAKER_01 43:28

You gotta have some character. There's a balance, right? You hit up a IKEA has wall art.

SPEAKER_00 43:33

They do actually have and mirrors. Yeah. If you're void of personality and taste.

SPEAKER_01 43:39

Sorry. You hit up the antique shop, the thrift store, you find this lovely piece that just feels right. You throw it in the house, and then it makes everybody go crazy and you kill people.

SPEAKER_05 43:48

Uh gaslights the whole family. Yeah. See, this is why when I'm like, I just want to get everything at IKEA, I'm in the in the right there.

SPEAKER_01 43:56

Yeah, you you you are an android, you do love an empty net. No feeling type of furniture.

SPEAKER_03 44:01

I feel like Mac and I could be roommates based on our furniture tastes.

SPEAKER_00 44:04

But wait, Mac, I wanna I wanna circle back to what you said about Marie's death because you I don't know if this was intentional, but you said he put her down like a dog. Exactly. And that's something that I actually didn't notice the first time, but initially when she's like, the dog is fucking losing his mind, we need to do something about it. The dad's initial suggestion is to tether the dog up. And then that's exactly what he ends up doing to his wife. So I thought that was a good choice of words on your part and a great use of script in the movie's part. That's true.

SPEAKER_06 44:32

I didn't even put two and two together there. Thank you. You made me seem smarter. But wait, Chris, you love Katie Sakkoff. How did you feel about all this?

SPEAKER_03 44:39

I mean, it's a classic tale, again, of the mom and kids suffering, right? Like her death it is tragic, and I think it's made more tragic by the fact that she comes to her senses at the end and then just gets taken out. It's a bummer, you know. I think I'm just over movies where the wife and kids have to pay the price. I do enjoy her though, and I think something that I was really intrigued by is watching a behind-the-scenes video and Mike Flanakin talking about Katie Sackoff and what she brought to the role within her physicality and just like the demand that she put for her own stunts, uh, leaving Seth every day with bruises all over her neck and just putting a thousand percent of her energy into that. It's a fun timing to do to rediscover Katie Sakkoff because I just I saw her in Halloween Resurrection and I never saw her again. I'm not up on all the sci-fi stuff that she did, but she's also in the Mandalorian. So I think just to see the diversity in her range, I think it made me probably care for the character more than I would have originally, but the tragedy of her death was a hard pill to swallow.

SPEAKER_02 45:44

Talking about a hard pill to swallow, right? Uh oh god. Yuckes. Let's talk about that light bulb scene. Pretty crazy, huh? Um, so Mike Flanagan was interviewed, and you know, this movie plays a lot on four natural phobias. Like, you know, you have the movie poster that has the hand, uh, hands and the eyes, and you know, you have these nails and teeth, and you know, all sorts of like these crazy things that have to do with very tactile functions of your body. And so Mike said, he's like, I really wanted to get in there and have this idea of the characters ex what the characters may experiencing be real or not, which I think we definitely get that. Um, and he also has this natural phobia of like damage to eyes and soft palate. So when he's giving this interview, he's talking about it and he's actually cringing as well and pulling back. And he said, I can't deal with that. So um naturally I'm gonna go ahead and like put this in a movie, which is really cool to see you know, someone's natural or someone's phobia come into like a movie and it'd be done like great because I don't know if you guys seen those nails um pre-Paris, my nails would have looked like that. Um now I just file the shit out of them down with my glass file. But yeah, no, it's really crazy. Um I appreciated that. And then, you know, he has, I'm sure Matt can appreciate this, but um, a lot of this movie was inspired by stories from HB Lovecraft. Um, and in doing so, Mike decided to not have a backstory of this mirror, which I kind of appreciated that. Um, because I don't think we needed to know how the mirror came to an existence, you know, or all of that. I think that, you know, can be in part two possibly.

SPEAKER_01 47:24

Uh it always makes no sense when they're like, oh, we know where this mirror came from. And it's like, no, you you would never know where something like this came from. Like even tracking it back as far as this movie did is like a little bit of a stretch, but most movies it's like, ooh, in 1904, this person made this and shipped it to here and then did this, and they have a whole lineage of something that no one has ever cared about, you know?

SPEAKER_03 47:48

All of a h all of a sudden you have a commercial uh of the making of the glasser glass, but it's narrated by John Yes.

SPEAKER_00 47:54

Yeah, they're suddenly like it's never satisfying.

SPEAKER_01 47:56

There's like factory footage of of a mirror being made, and you're like, oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_00 48:00

It fell on a baby one time and the baby possessed it.

SPEAKER_05 48:04

As someone who works in antiques, it would make sense that she could get that information though. So it does add up in the film.

SPEAKER_01 48:10

Yeah, yeah, I just like that there's no like full origin, like like Alexis was saying.

SPEAKER_03 48:14

We know where it first popped up, but we don't know who made it or the method in which it was cursed.

SPEAKER_02 48:20

Yeah, and can you imagine that snippet? Because I feel like we've seen movies that have done it, and you're like, but why? And I feel like I could quote a lot of us on here, not specifically, but um just saying, like, I wish I didn't have that. I kind of won the mystery. But then there's somewhere it's so disjointed that you needed uh, you know, back story and stuff like that. But yeah, Mike said he, you know, expanding on that, he said, evil in the world doesn't have an answer. So I really appreciated that. And I feel like that put the nail in the fingers. I don't know, like teeth in the teeth, in the teeth, the teeth. I think it hurt my teeth watching it. And then her eat the pot. That was the craziest.

SPEAKER_05 48:59

But you're not supposed to eat the pot. That leads to bad feelings. No, you eat the plant, right?

SPEAKER_03 49:03

Well, Alexis, you have enough experience eating pot, so and that is our gore trivia of the night.

SPEAKER_02 49:12

So thank you for stopping by, everyone.

SPEAKER_03 49:14

Uh-huh the gore, you know.

SPEAKER_05 49:15

She'll be here all week.

SPEAKER_03 49:16

I will say that the uh the illusions that they play in this movie were pretty great. I believe I watched the trailer for this movie and saw the light bulb scene. I'm like, how is this bitch getting a light bulb in her mouth? Like, how what's the road we take to get there?

SPEAKER_04 49:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 49:32

So I was really happy to see that it was just an illusion and that she did in fact have the apple in her hand. But those little mind games I absolutely loved, more so like in terms of its editing. I think when you look at this movie visually, though, in the cinematography that it went into it, they have some incredibly beautiful tracking shots. Like specifically when the movers are bringing in the mirror to the house for the first time, and you have the sweeping shot of the camera following the mirror while Marie is, you know, telling the kids not to play and redirecting them, and you just see this beautiful place, knowing the horrors that are undoubtedly about to unfold because of this cursed object rolling up in there. I think that was probably one of the prettiest shots of the whole movie.

SPEAKER_01 50:19

Can I ask if anyone else noticed that it seemed like sometimes this mirror was huge, and then sometimes this mirror fit into like up the hatchback basically? And I don't know if it was just like me. Did anyone else pick up anything about that?

SPEAKER_03 50:35

No, but I have an answer for that.

SPEAKER_01 50:37

Okay, go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 50:38

It's not it's not a great answer, and not many people here are gonna get it. But if anyone's read Midnight Sun, Twilight from Edward's Perspective, oh god, there's a really fun fallacy in Twilight where it's like, how the fuck did these vampires go into this field with this human and not notice that there's a human there? And there's an explanation where one of the vampires who can like control the feelings of others was basically like projecting and creating the illusion that A, she was boring and don't even bother looking in this direction, but B that another vampire was like bigger than he really was and like more menacing than he really was, so it kind of like intimidated them. This mirror's doing the same thing.

SPEAKER_02 51:16

I love that. I I hate it coming from a Twilight fan.

SPEAKER_00 51:20

The mirror is making you think it's one size.

SPEAKER_01 51:22

Yeah. But like sometimes they could both stand, you know, they were like at one point standing against it and then like realize they were there. And then another time you see it and it's like only the width of one person. I don't know. Anyway, that's probably an unimportant element.

SPEAKER_03 51:35

Well, I mean, you you you are onto something there. I mean, it's also possible because they that room that the mirror's in was built with breakaway walls on a sound stage, so it's possible that it's just playing with the perspective that they're filming it from. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 51:49

I can imagine having to control which reflections show up in a mirror while you're filming means you have to do like inventive things with camera placement. So maybe since you have to change like literal perspectives to get the right shots, maybe it seems bigger in some places and smaller in other places.

SPEAKER_00 52:07

I feel like you're on the money with that, Mac. I actually watched the 30-minute short film that this was based off of, just to kind of get some context. But in that, the whole thing takes place in one room. Um, and I feel like they did use some creative shots because throughout that 30 minutes, the size of the mirror does feel like it fluctuates, and it might be because of that. I will say though, don't watch that 30-minute short film. It's not good. It felt terribly long, and the one guy who's acting in it is not great.

SPEAKER_01 52:35

Thanks. Well, I'll I'll keep that noted. Besides the change of the size of the mirror, my favorite visual element is the way that they play tricks of who's in the house. It's obviously a very specific scene, but it's done a few different times. My my favorite way to point it out is the scene where they're outside looking in and seeing themselves opening the curtain and moving things around. And it's so creepy. And I I think a lot of times the like monsters that you see or like the shapes that you see, you know, like the dark girl in the corner with eyes that light up, like those types of things are usually kind of cheesy, really cheesy in these types of movies. But here I was so creeped out by all the people. And part of it is because they alluded to it, right? We knew there was gonna end up being people in the house, but like just the way these characters are when they're the the possessed version, the trick version, whatever it is. I loved seeing it and also could not have hated it more because it was just so creepy.

SPEAKER_02 53:34

Oh, see, I thought it was kind of cheesy, that's why um with the eyes. I was like, man, bad flash, you know, when your eyes look like that or they look red.

SPEAKER_05 53:43

But wait, that was actually my favorite visual part. Really? Because normally when they go for for ghostly people, they're like gonna blank out the eyes, either just like blank white or blank black. And that's cheesy to me now. But seeing mirror eyes, I mean, mirrors are cool, and seeing them in people's eyeballs, especially when they reflect light in the darkness, like when they're standing inside the house looking out and you get that reflection off of them. I thought that was a cool touch.

SPEAKER_01 54:07

That glow, you know.

SPEAKER_02 54:08

I mean, I wasn't a fan, but I, you know, I did like their play on these angles and those transitions too. I think it starts off, you know, when the parents are kissing in the bed and you know, the bed's flat, and then all of a sudden it's upright. And I was like, damn, that's really interesting. Um, and I I just love that part, and then especially um like Ryan alluded to, it's just like all of these transitions, you know, where Kaylee is holding her brother's hand and then she looks down and it's her like actual the kid version of her brother of Tim. And I just I was like, I love this because you never know what you're gonna get. So it's like everything is just there's like lots of tricks, and the camera is going along with that. It's just not the storytelling as well. So I like that continuity of all of the filmmaking in this movie.

SPEAKER_01 54:55

It's like it gets you lost, but lost in the story, not lost, stuck on the outside, trying to figure out what's going on. Yeah, I was also lost in the house, too. But yeah, yeah. It's like, where are they? We were physically lost, but you know, some movies can do stuff like that, and you're just like, what is going on? I don't understand. Whereas here you were like, What is going on? I don't understand, but it feels like it's me. That doesn't make sense, but hopefully you guys understand.

SPEAKER_00 55:19

You're confused in the same way the characters are confused and disoriented.

SPEAKER_01 55:22

Exactly. Not just as a viewer, but as a participant.

SPEAKER_00 55:25

Yeah, I will say, Alexis, I totally agree with you. I felt like the ghost characters were also like my least favorite visual element of the movie. I felt like it was like the most kind of on the nose, cheesy part of this, and there were there were a few different parts, but that one takes the cake. Um, my favorite visual, it's tough because you guys all you really dug into it already. It's it's all of the different illusions, the distortions. Um, but I really enjoyed the way it used technology as like a sort of objective observer. Like when you're when you're first re-watching that camera footage and you see the brother and sister having the same exact conversation that we watched them have, but doing completely different things, like fucking with the cameras and moving stuff around. The first time you see that, you're just like, oh shit, what's actually going on here? And then later she kind of uses her camera phone to let her make sense of what's going on. Um, I really enjoyed the way it kind of gave us another window to look through while watching this. Runner up goes to uh the mirror itself, gorgeous mirror. If anybody watches Restored with the Fords, it's like a HGTV show. I feel like Leanne Forward would love that mirror. And then also uh just the beautiful red ponytail that got a lot of bouncing and swinging action in the first act.

SPEAKER_03 56:35

Oh my god. First off, hold on. I I'm gonna just get this out of the way for later. The fucking ponytail, worst part of the fucking movie to me. Nobody fucking swings their fucking ponytail like that unless you're in eighth grade and you mean.

SPEAKER_00 56:48

Jen Brady does.

SPEAKER_03 56:49

It's annoying as shit.

SPEAKER_01 56:51

I truly was like, did they ask her to swing it like that? Or did she is this a part of who she is? Because this is a part of some people. Not that it's genuine necessarily, but like I was like, did a did a director shoot this and go, eh, swing your ponytail?

SPEAKER_02 57:08

I don't know. When I have my ponytail, it's like an extension of me. So I'm like beep bop in, which is why I don't wear it that often.

SPEAKER_00 57:13

Because I just feel like you beep bop too much.

SPEAKER_03 57:15

Yeah, but her head created the illusion of it being still, which means you have to be like doing some specific moments for it to be going like that.

SPEAKER_00 57:22

There was some puppetry in that ponytail.

SPEAKER_03 57:24

It takes she was doing it on purpose. Yeah, her ponytail was the symbolic indicator that shit's about to get weird. Let's just go ahead and hypnotize you real quick. It's like it felt so fucking on the nose and obnoxious.

SPEAKER_02 57:38

What the ghost hunters use and to put it in the room, like to see if there's like any spirits or any electronic or electrode shit. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 57:46

I mean, she she was doing a lot of research, you know. That might have been a part of her uh technique.

SPEAKER_03 57:51

But I do gotta say, Paris, I'm glad that you you know you specifically called out like the camera as an objective third party because that scene with you know playing back the footage and seeing the yeah, them having that conversation and rearranging the cameras and then you know revealing that and then looking through her iPhone 4 with the flashlight exploration, definitely my favorite parts of the movie. I I especially loved it because so you see all these videos occasionally pop up on the internet where there's like ghosts and shit, and you're like, that's obviously uh footage that's manipulated in some form or fashion. And typically it's manipulated with the idea of like trying to make it seem like there's a ghost, whereas here it's like let's just turn the tables here and just pretend there's no ghost at all, no spooky shit here, just regular ass humans uh rearranging cameras. Absolutely love that.

SPEAKER_01 58:43

Yeah, that was so good. And that's another one of those moments where they rope you in because you're like, I just watched that scene. They weren't rearranging the cameras. And I still don't know if they are actually rearranging the cameras the first time you see it. Maybe uh maybe next time I rewatch this, I'll see.

SPEAKER_02 58:57

Yeah, that was my favorite scene when it's like seeing all of her hard work. And you know it's like usually people are you know hiding from these things and they think the like spirits are coming together. But this is the first time you see someone that's going after this and be like, I'm gonna be done with this, which I liked, but making smart decisions, yeah, making smart decisions and having the technology to back it up. But I did like with that part is all the backstories on all of them. It was interesting. I know you guys mentioned that before in the gore section, but that was my favorite scene when she talked about it because it was a it was a really intense like monologue she had right there.

SPEAKER_05 59:31

Okay, so opposite take here. I think what they did was not the smart decision because it wasn't haunting them anymore, aside from what it did to their lives already. Like they could have just let it go and let somebody else deal with it. Sure. And then just deal with their own like messes. So my favorite scene was actually seeing her brother basically try to chill her out on this whole project.

SPEAKER_02 59:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 59:53

Right from the start.

SPEAKER_02 59:54

But he was influenced by the mirror, that's why he was doing that. Brainwashed.

SPEAKER_05 59:58

It sounded like he had learned to cope with what happened in his life and he was trying to share what he had learned with her.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:02

But he was lying to himself about what happened. Yeah. Because he's brainwashed.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:07

Well, brainwashed or work through something psychologically uh with a very reasonable explanation for events that happened because we all fucking know that mirrors aren't haunted.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:18

Absolutely reasonable. Everything he said was reasonable, except the part where they were like, we should probably stay together and then made exactly zero efforts to stay together.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:28

They immediately didn't.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:30

Immediately didn't stay together ever again. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:32

Big problem for me in this movie. Them not staying together.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:35

Well, the mirror didn't want them to stay together. I know. But wait, hold on. It has just come to my attention that I have made a grave mistake in not mentioning that Brenton Thwaite's face is my favorite visual element of this movie. Okay. Totally forgot. He's so beautiful. I will say though that Alexis, my favorite scene is also when we have Kaylee kind of revealing all that she's been working on this whole time. Because that's when I was first watching this, and I was like, oh, they're not doing this the way that I thought they were gonna do this, they're doing this the way that I would do this. Where, you know, this mirror fucked up your whole life. Uh your brother still has like basically a rap sheet because of it. But if we can prove that it does what it does and that it's like it's like a replicable, predictable force, then maybe we can move on from this. Um, because one, it was such a surprise to me, it was so refreshing at the time, but also it really gives you more insight into her character because you have the brother who went into a mental facility to get help with all this trauma that he suffered, and his whole 10 years have been spent on recovery. And then you have Kaylee, who did not have any help, and she kind of just had to deal with this on her own, and her 10 years have just been focused on like revenge, and you kind of get the two of them coming together and colliding with how should we deal with this insane thing, and I think it just makes for like really great uh character development and uh narrative lore.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:01

Paris, I agree with you. My favorite scene is really simple, and it's just the Apple uh light bulb scene. So I'm gonna, instead of talking about that more, talk about two things from yours that you just said, which is one, you guys keep pretending like the man wasn't in jail. Sure, he was in a mental institution, but he was absolutely not there by choice or desire or any other way. He was definitely there under a sentence. The other thing is, while I do agree that she did make really smart, smart decisions for deciding to chase a thing that's haunted, she also like kind of underestimated it. And like, it's weird because she was like, I have all these fail-safes, I have all these things to be smarter than it, but also she knew enough to know that like it would influence someone not to hit it. So why would it not be able to stop the timer? Yes. You know what I mean? Like, I and it's funny because I didn't even have that thought until you just started talking about it. But like, as smart as she was, she knew that the mirror was smarter than her, and I feel like she didn't she didn't do enough, which should have been just walking away.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:07

That's what she should have done. I think she was overconfident.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:09

Overconfident, yes. Let me just point out this classic phrase, pride cometh before the fall. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:15

Ooh.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:16

So true, so true.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:17

She really thought she had it in the bag, but the mirror was like, oops, bitch, surprised. I remember you.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:22

You know when she had it in the bag when it was in the trunk of her car and she could have driven it literally fucking anywhere but her parents' house.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:29

Yeah. Also, like her fiance calling her, it doesn't make sense because she knows that phones are super ineffective around this thing. So why even bring a phone into it? Why bring your fiance calling you?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:42

Well, I think it's different because when a call is being received from the outside, it's not under the influence. Whereas when you place a call from in the inside, it's definitely susceptible to both.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:53

She's inside, her phone's inside, so it's susceptible to you know what I mean? Yeah. Because then we get a fake ghost call when he's already dead. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:00

Oh, true.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:01

I don't even know why she would bring that in, you know? Like that's not as fail-safe at all. Some of these things were not fail-safes. In fact, none of them. Well, she's dead now, so.

unknown 1:04:09

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:10

Great point. Yeah, I would say if I had to pick a worst part, because nothing really sticks out to me as like a worst part of this movie, that would be it.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:17

Ooh, my worst part was absolutely how sad I felt that he was just gonna go back to jail because he unintentionally killed someone. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:26

Same story again. It was so sad.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:28

Uh, my worst part of this movie goes to the ghost characters again. Uh, just felt like they were super cheesy. But also the way this movie was marketed. I don't know who was responsible for it, but you did a bad job. Oh, and then also it was a little long. I think we can do we do we agree it was a little long? No, it was too long. By about 20 minutes.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:46

What? I'd like to actually go to say what exactly I would like cut out of this movie. Please. Here's the thing a little bit too back and forth y. And to some degree, you need the back and forth to get the story fully fleshed out, but there are just some moments in those flashbacks or some moments in the present that were just it just felt like filler to get to a runtime versus something that was actually essential. They're outside, they get the call for 9-1-1, and they have this oh shit reality of like, oh no, it's the same voice. Obviously, 9-1-1 isn't going to be coming for us. They end up then back inside the house, and they're seeing themselves, is when they see the ghost of Marisol Chavez. From there, they're still together. Then they end up in a bathroom, but then they're suddenly separated, and then there's another fucking shot of Tim just alone in a room freaking out while the alarm's going off. Those three beats, we just don't need them. We don't need those flashbacks. We could have gotten straight to the kids trying to destroy the mirror. We could have gotten straight to Tim killing his father, but the extra, the extra bits that we get there where it's just Kaylee and Tim as adults somehow getting separated and going through their own things, I feel like the mirror probably could have just manipulated them while they're still in the same room without having to go on a fucking field trip or All around the house. It just it felt like it just felt too long and too drawn out.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:04

Not that I fully disagree with you, but I do feel like there was an intentional alignment of what happened to them when they were younger and what was happening to them now. And so I felt like they kind of got taken along the same paths. And then that's where it did a lot of like bouncing back and forth. So I feel like it was means to show us more of the story from the first time. And not necessarily that we needed that, but I didn't feel like it was pointless. But I I feel like evidently I liked this movie too much and I'm like too soft on it. I didn't I didn't do my regular criticisms here.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:37

Here's the thing like, did they do it to have this parallel? Yes, they did. Could we have gotten the same punch for less? Yes, we could have. What do you want? Some paranormal activity?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:49

I don't think so.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:50

I don't think it needs to be paranormal activity. It's the separation of Kaylee and Tim, where it that whole section, it's literally the point where they're in the mirror in the room together, then they're in the bathroom, and then from there on up until the point where Kaylee dies, it's convoluted and messy. And it's like this write-off of like, oh, it's supposed to be messy because holy shit, she's about to die. But it's it would have been more interesting to me had it just happened quicker and less of the back and forth. Like just show me the f flashback of the kids, then fucking Kaylee can die in the present.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:24

But see, I also feel like the separation was also making some comments about like them healing from the same trauma separately and having different experiences, even from that night that originally happened. And maybe I'm giving it too much credit, but that's what it seemed like to me.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:39

No, I don't think you're giving it too much credit. I'm thinking you're giving it credit in a way that it already did that previously in the movie, because that's such an apparent thing in like the entire way leading up to it. You're giving it the right credit. It's just a lot in that moment.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:54

I didn't even notice this, Ryan, but I feel like you're actually totally right with that because like I was just talking about, uh, the brother begins in a place of like, I want to recover and I want to heal from this, and the sister's like, oh, I want to get revenge. And in the end, she's the one that like hugs her mom and like finds acceptance and peace while he's the one that goes for revenge. Didn't even notice that, but now I can't live without that part, Chris. I'm sorry. But I do feel like somewhere in here, there's like 10 to 15 minutes that we can cut out. But I I think the the chaos of like them being together, them being upstairs, them being separate, it really just builds in the climax to make you feel like I have no idea what the fuck's going on.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:28

And that brings me to my worst part of this movie. The climax is okay, I guess. The ending, however, was not okay story-wise. You guys have mentioned them processing trauma and dealing with their experiences, but it doesn't really resolve in a meaningful way that I think it truly could have. I think there could have been a resolution here that ended with growth in a good direction, with them succeeding in their growth, with them like moving beyond, moving through this trauma together because they have each other, just as they survived the first time through because they had each other. And I think the fact that she was so sucked into the mirror and staring at her mother and like didn't like learn to let go and and move past it at that point, at which point, boom, the mirror gets cracked. Huge disappointment for me. The fact that she had to take that heavy weight in into her into her flesh and then die at the end of the movie majorly dissatisfied me and major like missed opportunity.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:32

This is not a rom-com. This was not meant to have a happy ending. And there was growth for the mirror, okay? It leaned more people.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:43

That's true.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:45

I and and I did not want what happened to happen. I was just honestly, I would have been fine if he died and she lived.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:51

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:52

But boy, when he was in like r I know, very rude, but I'm just saying, like, just the thought of him having to deal with everything once come out of it, try to like fight down all his things he's learned to cope with this horrific thing that happened in his life. And then this happens, and he's just run into the car again, screaming it's the mirror, like, oh, my little heart.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:11

But go back to that moment when he shoots his father, or his father kind of shoots himself using his son's hand, and he tells him quietly, run. Like, what a great moment to echo in the ending of the film when she sees her mother and she's about to get got, and her mother could have that moment where she's bonding and she hugs her, and then she just goes, run.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:31

Oh, I would have hated that.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:32

The mirror was the ghost. The mom was the mirror at that point. I know. They're all ghosts, everyone's a ghost, none of it matters, but it's all a trick. Missed opportunity for them to truly process the past and then move into a future where they're not bound by the curse.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:46

What do you have? Feelings?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:47

I emulate them. What I'm hearing from Mac is that he was so invested in these characters that he was sad that they didn't get what they needed from this story.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:56

There you go. That's it. You really did it there.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:59

We get only a few characters in the film, so I feel like if you don't make them easy to connect with, you would kind of lose some of the audience here. And I think they did a good job of making them easy to connect with, except for the fiance. That I just wasn't feeling that. That seemed kind of out of place. Oh, really? But everyone else.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:16

I enjoyed him so much. He was a dump of a character. Like I don't mean he's like trash, so nice and supportive. He's just out here making things happen, checking on it. I just meant they just dumped him in for like to make her to develop her character a little bit more. He didn't have any other purpose. Calling her was not a purpose.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:36

Yeah, that that be how it be sometimes in movies. They're literally our characters designed to just highlight other features of other characters. Right. That's true.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:44

But imagine you have a fiance and he doesn't know you've done all of this stuff in this house and has no idea what you're doing.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:54

Well, she asked him to. Because she doesn't feel uncomfortable with her brother.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:57

Yeah, she said she was with her brother. But I guess that fiance wouldn't let you go. Yeah. That's a if you if I had to call you every hour on the hour, I don't think you should go.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:05

Yeah, I would be like, I'm coming with you. Don't worry about it. I'll just sit in the other room, read a book.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:08

Yeah. There it was a very weird relationship, how little he knew about her uh psychosis.

unknown 1:12:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:14

Well, it's my understanding that he is the main reason she has access to this mirror. Like that's how she got into this. So it almost speaks to her level of craziness and obsession that she would go so far as to like get engaged to this man so that she could bring to life this 10-year plot.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:32

True. And she did just look away from him at one point with very little concern. There was brief concern, as you would for any dead person, but not that much concern.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:44

I mean, I feel she was emotionally shook when she realized he was actually dead. Sure, but I don't want to believe that she got engaged to him for that sole purpose. Sure, sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:52

But then she saw him later.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:53

He was tall.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:54

I think she did know it was a trick when she saw him later, but she just looked right away. She was just like, nope, I'm good.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:59

I gotta say though, Kaylee is my favorite character in this whole movie. I feel like she anchors everything with her performance. My boyfriend kind of disagreed while we're watching. He was like, Do you like does her do her motivations make sense to you? Like, is this a good performance to you? And I'm like, for me, yes, this is what I would do, this is how I would feel. Um, but the way she committed to it and sold it, to me, is what made the story believable and what invited you in to suspend the high amount of disbelief you had to suspend to get into this. And actually, watching the uh 30-minute short film that this was based on, she delivers the monologue when she's like explaining her setup with the cameras and everything. She delivers the exact same monologue that the actor does in that one, but she does it so much better that it looks almost like a a compare and contrast of like good acting and bad acting. So this is actually what made me fall in love with her, and then everything I've seen her in since is like, oh, she's in this.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:50

For me, two of the standout characters are the kids that play Kaylee and Tim. And they have so much emotion and stress and concern and like you know, trying what what is it that they said at some point? We're gonna have to be really brave. Um, it was just a lot to think of kids going through, especially with like being chased by your mother. Kaylee got choked like 18 times. I don't I don't know if I've ever seen somebody get choked and almost die so many times. That's not true, it was only two times or something, but they really kept me intrigued because I actually didn't care much about Britain Thweets. I didn't care much about adult Tim. I did, however, care about baby Tim that was real, real chill and didn't deserve any of the things that happened to him.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:35

The snot-nosed brother, as his father called him. Did anybody like the father as a character?

SPEAKER_03 1:14:41

I actually did. Uh I I didn't like him for most of the movie, but his little redemptive moment where you see that okay, it for sure was just the manipulation of the mirror. I was concerned that it was just bringing out things that were beneath the surface, just as it brought out Marie's insecurities, right? Insecurities about her body. So I'm like, man, this guy clearly has to be some kind of asshole if it's going to this extent. But looking at the conversation that he had with Marie before the mirror is finally uh actually set up, then looking at the moment where he could very easily kill his son and then just allows the son to kill him and you and pulls the trigger and in a fucked up way gives really weird closure. Which I mean, honestly, it could have also just been the mirror haunting the child and making planting its seed for a future mark. I actually enjoyed that he wasn't as big of an asshole as a lot of the film made him out to be. He had a nice little redemptive cherry on top at the end of it. Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:44

I really enjoyed his character as much as he was horrible. Um, do we all agree that that moment where he shot the gun was like a moment his last moment of humanity, just like the mother? That's what I thought too. Like he's trying to save the kids in a way.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:59

It was also like only his second or third moment of humanity because you get very little of the actual character before it's all he's just a puppet, he's just like a vessel.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:08

So true. I do have a weird thing about him though. He's a software designer, works with computers a lot. Why is he a pecker for his keyboard? Oh why is the fingernail issue with the band-aid a problem for his typing? Why can't he use the pads of his fingers like any regular ass person?

SPEAKER_04 1:16:25

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:26

I felt like it was like a specific possession thing, you know? It's just like when he can't come up with like a better response for his kids and he just keeps saying the same things over and over again.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:36

Oh yeah. It's definitely this mirror that was uh originated sometime by 1754. It's like, I don't fucking know what this mirror is exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:44

It doesn't know how to type. The mirror doesn't know how to type.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:47

Tea for glass. I mean, it doesn't know how to use iPhones, so this mirror needs Mavis Beacon.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:53

Exactly. The neighbor Bob was useless as hell.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:57

Oh, the worst neighbor.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:58

Did that surprise anyone?

SPEAKER_01 1:16:59

Never said it, never seen a worse neighbor in my entire life.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:02

I think that's the other, the other struggle. And uh, it's a compliment I will give this movie. It does the things that you would expect to have a problem with. For example, my girlfriend was like, hey, why don't they just go to the neighbors? And then a couple seconds later they go to the neighbor. She's like, oh well, all right, that's fair. Well done, Oculus. So I can appreciate the logical lengths that it goes to in that regard. I think when it comes down to movies like this, child actors can be so hit or miss. Sometimes they're either really, really believable or they're really fucking obnoxious. And it's there are some times where I didn't quite like the younger Kaylee. Not that she had a bad performance, it was just there was some vibe there about like looking into the window, seeing the other woman, and there's just there's like a really weird energy where I preferred the younger Tim over the younger Kaylee in terms of like the quality of their performance. But from the moment that the parents are attacking them, I just I I I don't know, there's something in in my heart that hurts for the idea of a child having to go through those kind of stunts. And you know, good for her for being able to summon whatever she had to summon to get her face to turn that particular shade of red for strangulation. Because I'm like, damn, girl, you don't deserve to be put through that.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:18

That's true. She really did sell that.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:20

I didn't think she was overly obnoxious or anything. I mean, that you guys think the ponytail was, but um but no, I think she was great. I even think about that, Chris, like the lanes that I mean, I think of the lanes that like an adult actor has to go through during a movie, but clearly the child actor has to do the same.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:36

I'm sure there's different laws, but I think what it is, it's I think my pers my perception of younger Kaylee was shaded by older Kaylee. And while the actress had an incredible performance, and I totally admire it, was not a fan of Kaylee as a character. Am I mad at the logical lengths that she went to? No, she's a very intelligent woman. However, she also made the decision to hunt down this fucking mirror and get it into this house, and uh you're kind of abusive towards your brother, so hey, it is what it is. But I will say, this is better than the standard supernatural affair, and it's something that I don't think I'll be itching to re-watch anytime soon, but it is certainly one that I'll give a shot in the future.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:18

Ooh, I would actually rewatch this movie, and I've already recommended that that several other people watch it, so it stands out to me in a weird, unexpected way.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:30

Yeah, I've definitely already said it when I uh gave my original TED talk on why this was a slash for me. But um, yeah, I definitely think our listeners should be watching it and everyone else should watch it as well.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:42

I don't know. I mean, I think it's worth a watch if you haven't seen it. I think there's just so much content out there right now to watch, and I just couldn't see myself actually rewatching it. I'd be okay with the rewatch, but you know, there's certain things where you have to like I feel like re-watching a film is like a special honor for that film because there's so much available to watch these days. So it's it's one of those that like it doesn't have the Halloween rewatch value for me. Um, but I'm I'd be okay with that if it happened.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:12

I love that, Mac. I'm very happy to give that special honor to this movie. Uh, I will re-watch this many more times in my life, specifically for the reasons Chris was mentioning a moment ago about how this movie takes a lot of logical steps to rationalize what's going on, where you're like, oh, well, why don't they just go to the neighbor? Oh, well, we thought about that. Um, and it kind of just puts the logical mind into like a corner where it's like you're in a situation where running away from the problem could also actually mean that you're just standing there waiting to be killed and you don't know what's real. Um, and for for me, I sometimes have a an inconsistent uh grasp on reality. Uh usually in little ways, like I swear I turned the oven off, or like, oh, I thought I locked the door. Um, but this is something I think about all the time. Anytime something like that happens, I'm like, oh, it's Oculus. I don't know what's real. Um, but yeah, this is definitely a movie I will rewatch many times again.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:08

One thing I'm glad about though is the movie doesn't use the title of the movie inside of it. The mirror's not named Oculus, and that's brilliant. But I feel like the movie doesn't like work with the title Oculus at all either. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:23

I think it could be called ornate. That would be a good title. Ornate. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:27

Does that scream horror movie to you though?

SPEAKER_01 1:21:29

No, not at all.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:30

Scream like, oh, watch me.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:31

No, no, no, but neither does Oculus. Oculus is kind of. Oculus sounds like the thing's sequel. Like it it just doesn't sound like this genre or this anything.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:43

It's so abstract and like not even it doesn't it doesn't really conjure up anything. Yeah, it they should just call it Inception.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:49

What it could have done is sniped the Alice in Wonderland property before it was done in 2016 and just called it through the looking glass.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:58

They they could have just called it the name of the name of the glass, and I would have been stoked. The Laser Glass.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:03

The Laser Glass. Oh, yeah, that's intriguing.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:05

See?

SPEAKER_00 1:22:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:06

Yeah, that's a good one.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:07

Well, while there certainly may be a number of titles that would work better for this movie, we did just leave it as Oculus. But perhaps any of those titles may exist in Max Factor Fiction.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:17

There's a lot of things that exist in my factor fiction. Let's start out with the first. Director Mike Flanagan had planned to make Oculus as a found footage film, but Intrepid Pictures blocked that decision.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:27

In 2013, or soon before? Oh, fact.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:31

This is fiction. Uh it was the opposite, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:22:34

I thought it was fact.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:35

Oh, so you guys thought you knew the answers, but in the end, it is fiction. So other studios wanted it as a found footage film years ahead of this, right? They were ready to make it, but Flanagan actually was not interested in doing that. Intrepid also was not interested. So they said they'd be interested in this film as long as he didn't do it as found footage.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:52

It's always the details.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:54

Yeah, I probably don't remember the details on that one.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:57

It's a pretty bits, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:59

You know, words matter. Details matter. Especially for Mac.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:02

Words are hard.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:03

In the age of misinformation, it's important that we help our listeners think critically. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:08

But also, this would never have gotten a universal slash if it was found footage.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:11

Uh no.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:12

Would have hacked it immediately.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:13

It would have been a slash from me.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:15

Number two. Flanagan was adamant about Cayley dying in the end because he believes in most cases in the world today that evil always wins.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:23

I want to go fact again. I want to go fiction.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:26

Say fact. Nope, it's fiction. So he does not believe that at all. But he believes that evil is a force in the world that is very difficult to beat, and it's a question of whether or not we're winning.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:35

Hmm.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:35

So I I think we are always winning, but we are constantly battling, so I can I can understand that. Moving us to number three. If you had a difficult time realizing there were two timelines on screen, I'm sure you're not alone, at least in the first few minutes of the film. Flanagan even italicized in the script the scenes in the past to keep the two visibly distinct.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:53

Very specific. I'll go fact. Because it is confusing at first. I'll go fact.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:00

This is a fact, yeah. Yeah, this is a fact. I wonder if actors' head started to tilt to the side from all the italics.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:06

God bless.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:07

But also, like it's hard enough to watch this, so imagine reading this and trying to understand what the fuck is going on.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:12

Alright, number four. I know none of you are Huvians, but I originally spotted Karen Gillen, aka Kaylee, uh, and Doctor Who. Flanagan was also a fan of her performances in the hit Brit Sci-Fi, thus she was his first choice for Kaylee.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:26

I've actually the whole I've spent like 30 minutes trying to figure out where I recognize her from, and I still can't figure it out because she's been in so much, but I still think that's a fiction. Fact, possibly.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:38

Chris mentioned earlier that she's done sci-fi stuff, so I'm inclined to say fact, but also maybe Mac didn't recognize her from Doctor Who, and that's what makes it fiction. I don't know what's real anymore.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:49

The sad thing is I was talking about Katie Sackoff doing sci-fi stuff. I'm sorry I misled you. Oh, that's also who I was talking about.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:56

I'm talking about Karen Gillen.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:58

We're talking about Kaylee, not- Oh, god damn it.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:00

Welp. I'm gonna just say fact. Okay. Well, it is a fact. You know, allons-y for all you've ins. Anyway, Karen Gillen was also amazing in some of the um Marvel properties that are out there, playing Nebula as well. I don't know if you've caught that. But it's kind of cool to know that Flanakin is also a fan of Doctor Who, because there's uh many of us, you know, we're a legion. Bonus round here, hacker slash, Stephen King totally slashed Oculus.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:24

Fact. I'm like so confused by that. You've played a trick on my brain, and I didn't don't know what answer I'm supposed to give here. I'm gonna say fact.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:32

I think fact too.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:33

Stephen King loves like a haunted object. Yeah, and he apparently loved this film, so it's a fact. And that's all I have for fact or fiction.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:40

Well, delightful. Uh, if Stephen King were among us, the good news is Oculus would still be a universal slash. We've talked about a lot here, and while we all look favorably upon this movie, some look upon it more favorably than others. We'd love to know where you fall on that scale, or if you're on the other end of the scale and just totally hacked it. Keep in mind there are a number of ways you can reach out to us, starting with our website, hackerslash.com, and on our social media accounts on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:05

And if you are in agreement that mirrors are super creepy and you don't want to stare into them very often, you can reach out to our hackerslash hotline. You can leave us a voicemail at 757-606-0128, or visit hackerslash.com slash contact to send us an audio message, especially if you're international.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:24

And if you also have super creepy mirrors on your closet doors, send us an email to feedback at hackerslash.com.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:30

If you've enjoyed listening to this episode, consider becoming one of our patrons, like Britney. You can visit patreon.com slash hacker slash to earn cool perks for as low as $1 a month.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:39

We'll see you next time, folks, and remember, childhood promises mean nothing. Bye.