SPEAKER_02 0:04

Someone said why does everyone want to look like a bike seat? And it kinda ruined my life.

SPEAKER_03 0:13

Greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hack or Slash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. Does somebody want to be my Valentine? If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack, total joke, waste of time, or a slash. Totally killer, pun intended. We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, we're rating these movies with a perspective we've all gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast. This week I'm joined by the gore lover Alexis, everyone, the cowardly creeper Ryan, hiya, and the Scream Queen Paris.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

I'd rather be boiled alive.

SPEAKER_03 0:52

Love is in the air, folks, and while Mac is off this week to plan his upcoming wedding, we decided we'd take some time to bask in our love for you. Or for horror if you're not into us. Now, if you'd rather be anti-Valentine's Day, we've got you covered with a film that paints the holiday red with revenge. Before we break some hearts, though, we have some follow-up.

SPEAKER_00 1:10

We do have some follow-up, Chris, and it is a very shocking follow-up, uh, if I do say so myself. My friends, I have a question for you. What do the Silence of the Lambs and Wrong Turn have in common?

SPEAKER_02 1:21

They're both universal slash.

SPEAKER_00 1:23

That is absolutely right, both with our team and our listeners on the polls.

SPEAKER_03 1:28

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 1:28

Nice.

SPEAKER_03 1:29

I don't know that there's any other possible connection between these two movies. I'm sure somebody's gonna insert them into like six degrees of Kevin Bacon, probably, but what incredible reputations for these very different movies to have.

SPEAKER_00 1:41

Yeah, somehow there we couldn't find anybody that disliked wrong turn. And if you're listening to this and you dislike it, please less let us know. Call into the hotline, leave us a comment or something because you're underrepresented because everyone loves wrong turn.

SPEAKER_02 1:55

I would like to admit I fully wasn't excited that we were doing wrong turn, and I still haven't seen wrong turn, and I have like a negative connotation with it. And evidently I'm the the one making the mistake here, so I guess I need to watch it.

SPEAKER_03 2:08

Yeah, you're gonna have to because we are covering the new Wrong Turn coming up in February. Oh, great. It'll be for my birthday.

SPEAKER_00 2:14

We have a couple comments from our listeners. Anna on Facebook said, This movie is so nostalgic for me. I was twelve when it released. We definitely had this movie on DVD, and it always reminded me of an X-Files episode called Home. It was the only episode to be given a TV MA rating. This movie is a slash for me, simply for nostalgia, and Eliza Doucheco.

SPEAKER_03 2:32

Eliza Doucheco is an automatic slash, always.

SPEAKER_00 2:35

Yeah, the string of continuity through all of these slashes is Eliza Douchku. She definitely makes that movie so memorable. We have another comment from Jason, who said, such a late 90s, early 2000s horror film. There's always something charming about these films. They aren't regular watches for me, but I'm not going to turn it off. Half a slash for me.

SPEAKER_03 2:52

Out here rationing slashes. Slassy guy.

SPEAKER_00 2:55

We have another comment from our patron Daniel who said, I bought my ticket to go see the new one. This movie is very nostalgic, and as a kid, I always thought it was the greatest horror movie. Watching it now, I think it's very basic and entertaining. Still a good movie, and the best scene is the tree scene. Very unrealistic, but fun to watch.

SPEAKER_02 3:10

Also, shout out to you for buying tickets for movie theaters, bro.

SPEAKER_04 3:15

I was like, I didn't know the upcoming one was gonna have that you're gonna have that ability, but that's pretty cool to go to a movie theater right now.

SPEAKER_03 3:22

Yeah. The new wrong turn was only in theater for like one or two nights. And we actually have one of our other patrons, Zach, who reached out earlier today and let me know how excited he was and gave like a quick review of the film. We'll be sharing that when we record the new episode, but he's very excited.

SPEAKER_00 3:38

For sure.

SPEAKER_04 3:39

I'm excited. It's got our dude uh Damien in it, so it should be a fun watch.

SPEAKER_00 3:42

Yeah, I saw the message in on Instagram, and it his review of it has me more excited to watch it. So thank you for that, Zach. Uh, we finally have one comment from our friends Nova Cascade who said, Better than the thing? Hell no. And that is a personal drag on me that I accept.

SPEAKER_03 3:57

Yeah, Parish, you got us into some boiling hot water over that.

SPEAKER_00 4:00

Listen, these are my takes and my takes alone. My opinions are not reflective of the Hacker Slash team as a whole. They cannot be held liable for anything that I say on this podcast.

SPEAKER_02 4:09

Truly.

SPEAKER_00 4:11

And that is our follow-up.

SPEAKER_03 4:12

Well, speaking of wrong turn, in that film we saw Jeremy Sisto fall prey to some West Virginian arrows, but he actually came close to Cupid's era when he was considered for a role in another slasher a few years prior. In 2001, we saw a film that was credited as being based on a Tom Savage novel, a story about a secret admire sending cryptic threatening Valentine's to a woman he's become obsessed with, and yes, he's killed before. When producer Dylan Sellers had the opportunity to option the rights to that novel, he did so, but literally only for the title. Now, instead of Tom Savage's story, audiences watched a film that follows a group of women being stalked and hunted in an elaborate revenge plot carried out by a boy who was wronged by them in their youth. This week, we're talking about Valentine. Now, who's seen this one before?

SPEAKER_04 4:56

Nope, but it seems like a movie I've seen though. Yes, it seems like I know what you did last summer. Also Terror Tramp.

SPEAKER_02 5:03

Yeah. Also Prom Night. Everything from the same uh like five-year section. Yeah, the the cover of this is so recognizable, but I've never seen it, nor have I even heard of it, surprisingly. I know.

SPEAKER_00 5:15

Yeah, same. I've never heard of this and I've never seen it, but it like Alexis, this did feel very familiar. Um, it is possible that I may have like flipped through the channels at one point and seen uh a specific scene that takes place with Denise Richards, but it is also equally possible that I might be confusing a scene from Urban Legend.

SPEAKER_03 5:32

Urban Legend is another classic 90 slasher that I absolutely love. Alexis, I'm surprised you haven't seen this though.

SPEAKER_04 5:39

Yeah, I'm surprised I haven't too, because you know I love this time frame in horror, so um I'm really surprised. But I don't know, even if it seems familiar, I feel like you can't go wrong with these sort of movies. Yeah, it's like a safety net.

SPEAKER_03 5:51

It's nice, it's comfortable, it's not challenging, it's just there.

SPEAKER_04 5:54

Yes, exactly. In my life right now, challenging um movies, I do not want to watch it.

SPEAKER_03 6:00

I saw this movie back when it first came out, and I actually haven't thought about it much since. Every once in a while I'm reminded of it and think like, oh yeah, Denise Richards, David Borianas. That was a fun one. Okay. But that's literally the extent of it. To be clear, I was 11 when this thing came out. That's the last time I watched it. It's been 20 years since I saw this movie. Ooh, wowzers. I feel so old. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:23

2001 was 20 years ago.

SPEAKER_03 6:25

Yeah. What a wild time.

SPEAKER_00 6:27

It's alarming.

SPEAKER_03 6:28

Now, given that none of you have seen this before, what were you expecting going into it?

SPEAKER_04 6:32

Oh, you mean secret killer um amongst your friends, possibly. Could be anyone, could be someone you know, something, something bad you did when you were younger that's coming back to be, you know. Yeah, um, it was gonna be all that is what I thought it was. And it was.

SPEAKER_02 6:49

Always someone wearing a mask.

SPEAKER_04 6:51

Yes, always a mask, and always because you did something when you were younger. But I'm telling you, don't be that person. If anyone's listening and is in high school, do you shouldn't be bullying anyone at this point, but definitely don't do it. Definitely don't be this person for sure.

SPEAKER_02 7:05

Yeah, and another thing to go back to the expected tropes. Why is there always something that comes back around and it it's like masks, it's always one of your friends, and then a body bodily function in these movies. Yeah, I'm confused on the I can't think of another example right now. I was gonna say sorry. I was like, oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_03 7:22

Yeah, I haven't heard of one either, but you do need a calling card, so I'm here for it.

SPEAKER_02 7:26

Yeah. Maybe I'm making a drawing a line where there are not two points to connect, but I do that sometimes. Okay, the point of what I'm getting at is that there are like these exact same things that you're expecting from a killer movie in the early 2000s, and definitely that's all I expected going into. The same things Alexis listed, and oh, that's what you get. That is what you get.

SPEAKER_00 7:47

Yeah, truly the title of this movie, super basic. We'd already seen Valentine's Day uh at a couple different times, so I was like, I was just expecting like some dude obsessed with a girl. Um, I was expecting there to be like low gore because this was before Saw. And you know, I feel like it was gonna have that like bad quality that those early, early 2000s, late 90s movies had. Um, and then as I was watching the opening credits and I saw the cast, I was like, Catherine Heigel, Denise Richards, and I was like, uh how do I not know about this already? Uh so it that skewed my expectations right off the jump.

SPEAKER_03 8:22

Yeah, there's actually surprisingly a star-studded cast for this. It's like, let's get all the hot people we can, try to capitalize off that momentum. Now, I will say this time around, I was definitely entertained. It's weird because in spite of this being a slasher, there's this really odd vibe of innocence to it. It's from that time right before we got slammed with brutality and torture in the early 2000s. It feels very much like simpler times to me.

SPEAKER_02 8:46

Yeah, Chris, I definitely agree with the that simpler times feeling. It it's it's got that early 2000s, but not Saw 2000s, you know, that that feeling of just a group of people doing things and and we're gonna make a movie about it. And some people are just gonna get casually killed, like in their bedroom or in a hotel room. I don't know what it is, but it is just a simple feeling, and I definitely had that during this movie.

SPEAKER_00 9:09

Yeah, while I was watching this, I felt like I was watching a rom-com or like a medley of different rom-coms I'd seen from that same time. Uh, it had a lot of the same actresses that I'd recognized, um, and there were just a lot of themes throughout that I was like, oh, this is sort of in a genre and in a a universe of characters and and actors and actresses that I I really am familiar with. So I felt I felt at home while watching this.

SPEAKER_04 9:34

Ooh, what a good feeling. I don't know. I saw Denise Richards and I saw this movie, and I was like, am I watching Wild Things though? So yeah, I do have that familiarity like that you guys have. That's why I'm surprised I haven't watched this, but I don't know, I was surprised how much it kept me entertained. Um, I think the kills are really well paced that it kept me going with the flow.

SPEAKER_03 9:56

I was actually surprised this time around how many layers there are to this movie, despite seeming on its surface level, like it's a very generic slasher. Because it for sure does. It follows a formula. The storyline is there, it's what you expect. But if there's some like nuances in the dialogue and the dynamics between the characters, there's a lot of emphasis on how much women owe men. Spoiler alert, it's not a damn thing. They don't owe them shit. But there's also a balancing of the scales where it's not just raking men over the coals. This movie does well to show you that there isn't a single drop of innocence in this movie, except for like one guy Katherine Heigel briefly bumps into in school. But what that does though, it gives you a better, more realistic view of societal dynamics. And clearly at 11 I was too young to pick up on that shit. So it was a fun surprise this time around.

SPEAKER_02 10:43

I think I was actually surprised by the same thing because okay, for me, asking me to watch I Know What You Did Last Summer is is a form of physical torture. And going into this movie, I was like, oh, I'm I'm not prepared to sit through this. And I was actually surprised by how much I cared about the characters and what they were doing, because that's usually where I get lost in this. And here I really did care. Um, they they kept me into this movie for sure, and that was so surprising because I was prepared to hate them all.

SPEAKER_04 11:11

What's really surprising is I didn't know that there were layers because I was just so focused on the superficialness of this movie, and I was like, this is a good watch because it's so straightforward. Um, so I'm I'm interested to see uh both of you talk about all these dynamic layers and these characters because I just thought it was just generic.

SPEAKER_00 11:33

Alexis, I feel like you're totally right though. It's very easy to enjoy this movie as like a surface level experience because it's so straightforward and like familiar. But I was obviously surprised by the cast and how the fact that I'd never heard of this and I hadn't already seen this. But I was also surprised by the humor and how it seemed to get me in all the right ways. Uh, usually like comedy and horror movies is very hit or miss for me, almost always miss. Uh, but this one had like that certain brand of like 2000s kind of like legally blonde miscongeniality, like 50 first dates. No, not 50 first dates, how to lose a guy in 10 days.

SPEAKER_03 12:08

Drop dead gorgeous.

SPEAKER_00 12:10

Drop dead gorgeous. It had a lot of those comedy beats in it that I found very enjoyable, which I was not expecting to laugh during this movie.

SPEAKER_03 12:16

Yeah, I mean, laughter is for sure a a result that I wasn't really expecting either time that I watched this movie. But another thing that that people tend to feel in these movies, right, is like sometimes there's a jump scare, sometimes there's uh a scary element of it. For me, the only thing that's frightening about this movie is its accurate depiction of toxic assholes who think the world owes them sex. But were any of you scared by uh by these, you know, early 2000 tactics? Has anyone ever been scared by early 2000 tactics?

SPEAKER_04 12:43

Someone in the early 2000s, probably. I don't The Grudge and the Ring were pretty horrific, actually.

SPEAKER_00 12:49

True, true.

SPEAKER_04 12:50

How did we forget these? Because those are terrifying. But that's not the same as this genre, you know? Oh, so slashers during this time.

SPEAKER_02 12:57

Nah. No.

SPEAKER_04 12:58

No, uh maybe probably at the time if I watched it, you know, when I was eleven, like Chris, but um no, it was not, it wasn't scary at all.

SPEAKER_00 13:07

Yeah, same. I felt suspense and tension at most, um, but never real true fear.

SPEAKER_04 13:13

Hold on, I do take that back actually, though. The music was kind of terrifying in this.

SPEAKER_03 13:18

In an ironic sense, or like you actually were spooked by it?

SPEAKER_04 13:21

No, in an ironic sense, like this is uh horrible.

SPEAKER_03 13:26

Damn, girl.

SPEAKER_00 13:27

I kind of like the soundtrack. I was like, I might find this somewhere and listen to it all the way through to see if it's worth keeping.

SPEAKER_03 13:32

You would. Are you trying to steal Chris's brand? Because that's what she does. You know, it's fine. We all adapt the the good bits of each other, I think. I like that. I do like to steal bits from other people, so you're right.

SPEAKER_00 13:42

Oh, I love a soundtrack playlist.

SPEAKER_03 13:44

No, you did have to educate me on the Twilight soundtrack.

SPEAKER_00 13:46

Oh my god, one of the best soundtracks of all time.

SPEAKER_03 13:48

Okay, so despite the lack of fear, did you feel like this was different? Did it do something to define itself in a way that set itself apart from other slashers?

SPEAKER_00 13:58

Honestly, I think it did. Because this movie, as much as it is a slasher horror movie, it's also very much a rom-com. And I don't think I've ever seen another like romantic comedy horror movie that like balances it in this same way, you know what I mean? There's always like maybe some comedy, maybe like a forced romance, but never like something that if you took the horror elements out, would have just been like its own movie.

SPEAKER_03 14:20

Tuckerendale versus Evil.

SPEAKER_02 14:23

Very different. That was a rom-com though. It's heavy on the rom. For me, I think this movie is not original, although it does things that I've seen before differently, if that makes sense. But I it doesn't stand out to me at all as original. But I also don't feel like it's exactly like the things I've seen similar to it before. Does that make any sense? Oh yeah. Same, same but different is what you said. Same, same but different, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 14:48

Yeah, I can ride on that train. This is obviously movie, a movie that we've seen that's very similar to another movie, to another movie, to another movie during this time, but it I don't know, it's just like Paraside and like there's this like weird, like comical like satire that I'm getting that I don't think it's so overt that it's yeah, Tucker and Dale, but it does it in a way where you're like, but is it funny or is this not? And I kind of like that because I don't think you get that a lot in this sort of era in uh horror.

SPEAKER_03 15:19

I feel that. I mean this movie seems distinct to me now based on what I picked up this time around, but here's the thing ultimately if you've seen one Revenge Slasher, you've seen just about all of them, give or take a few exceptions, and this one is not distinct enough to be one of those exceptions. Here's the reason why. The ending is not hard to predict. There are a lot of clues along the way, uh, and the fact that it doesn't end at a certain spot already makes it very obvious that things aren't really over if you catch my drift. So I think it it's it spoils itself and gets in its own way to reveal the identity of who done it.

SPEAKER_04 15:56

I didn't think that, but maybe I wasn't paying attention too hard. I was like, or did I say that right?

SPEAKER_02 16:00

You literally said what happened in the movie before it happened. Oh, okay, then never mind.

SPEAKER_04 16:06

Looking back, um during the movie, different viewing.

SPEAKER_02 16:11

She's like, nah, I thought it was a super successful, original, unexpected ending. Meanwhile, we watched the movie and she's like, oh, this is about to happen, and it happened.

SPEAKER_04 16:21

I am the worst person to watch movies, obviously.

SPEAKER_00 16:25

I guess I'm the lone dumb bitch over here because while I considered the ending to be a possibility, it still surprised me twice. Oh and I was like, oh, oh. And I I wasn't mad at all. I was like, this was satisfying because the whole time I was like, okay, it could be this person, it could be this person. I kind of want it to be this person. And then it I hadn't considered the one person it was revealed to be.

SPEAKER_03 16:46

You got got twice?

SPEAKER_00 16:47

I got got twice by this ending.

SPEAKER_02 16:49

Oh pairs. I think this ending makes an effort to like I wouldn't say it's like a hundred percent predictable ending, but like if you know revenge slashers, then you're then you're ready for the gotcha. And uh, I don't know, it wasn't very successful to me. It didn't really do it for me. And honestly, I I also kind of don't fully understand how we got where we got, but I don't think I'm supposed to think about it that hard. That's part of my problem.

SPEAKER_03 17:13

I think it it definitely could have been better. The one of the struggles they have is the person who's revealed to be the killer they didn't have the greatest availability to shoot with them, so they had to add a lot of things and kind of like blur a few lines and try to balance some red herrings here and there. So they didn't get to fully do everything they wanted to do in terms of like setting up who the killer may be. So certainly the the end of the movie and the movie itself could have been a lot different had they gotten to do all the things they wanted to do. But we're not thinking about what may have been, we're thinking about what we got. And so we gotta see how these scores shake out. Now, while we consider what our ratings may be, Alexis, how many people died in this movie?

SPEAKER_04 17:53

We had nine deaths in this movie. Classic slasher. Yeah, classic slasher. I wanted more. I always want more.

SPEAKER_02 17:59

But an equally pressing question: how many animals died in this movie? Well, unlike Alexis, I don't always want more. And thankfully, I was finally given less this week because it feels like for the first time this year, I get to say our animal report is clean, chilling, nothing to report, nothing to even worry about, man. We are just watching a chill movie here.

SPEAKER_03 18:20

Nice. Cuddle up on Valentine's Day with your dog and watch Valentine.

SPEAKER_02 18:24

Yeah, they won't be insulted that you're watching bad things on screen.

SPEAKER_03 18:26

Yeah, there you go. Now let's go ahead and get into our ratings. Valentine from 2001, was it a hack or a slash?

SPEAKER_04 18:32

It was a predictable movie. Obviously, I predicted every scene before it happened, but I still thought it was fun. Like Ryan and I were watching it and we were like, at least I was entertained. I don't want to spoil how she felt. I was entertained, it was a good time. I love the comedy that was sprinkled in, although it wasn't like sew in your face. I love the cast. It was just an easy watch and it was entertaining, and I have to give it a slash based on that, just because it's not a hack. Like it's a slash by default. It's a slash, it's a slash by default because I can't really think of anything besides I wish there was more gore.

SPEAKER_02 19:06

Well, Alexis, my default is different from yours. And um, for me, this is a hack because I can't think of any reason to slash it.

SPEAKER_04 19:18

That's so funny. It's like completely opposite, but we both said the same comments while we were watching them. Yeah, so true.

SPEAKER_02 19:24

And I'm gonna repeat a lot of the same things. Like, this is like fairly entertaining. This is not the torture that is watching, I know what you did last summer, right? We don't have Freddie Prince Jr. in this movie. Okay, that's win already. No cast from Scooby-Doo. But it also just, you know, the ending, I'm kind of just like, What? Why are we even here? Not that it doesn't make sense, but it's just like kind of what's the point is kind of how I felt. Um, so I've I found it fairly entertaining. If this was someone's favorite movie, I would kind of question them. But if someone was like, hey man, I watched Valentine last night, I wouldn't be like, what the heck is wrong with you? I kind of would. I'd be like, why'd you pick that movie out of all of them? You know, this is the kind of thing I think if it's on TV, you watch it, but um, for me, it's a hack.

SPEAKER_03 20:07

It sounds like Ryan and Alexis just pulled a Paris and Chris. Yeah, a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 20:12

We're like you said before, same, same but different.

SPEAKER_00 20:15

Well, I will happily pull a Paris and I'm gonna slash the shit out of this movie.

SPEAKER_04 20:20

Yes. What?

SPEAKER_00 20:22

I loved watching this so much. I was mad as hell that I've only just now seen this. Um, it reminded me of like several of my like all-time favorite movies ever, like not horror movies, just movies I love, like Legally Blonde, um Miss Congeniality, like any of those like 2000s rom-coms where it's just like all about girls doing shit. I could watch that for hours. I could have watched this movie for hours. I wish it was longer. Um, Denise Richards in this was like so stunning and not acting at all. And I feel like something about that is timeless.

SPEAKER_02 20:56

She was literally in her own movie. I just want to throw that out there. She had a different movie on screen.

SPEAKER_00 21:00

She absolutely was, and I think that's iconic.

SPEAKER_02 21:02

Yeah, I also think it was probably a better movie. Hers was better, yes.

SPEAKER_00 21:06

The comedy was good, the kills were fun. Like some of them I think were like actually kind of gross. Um, some of them were so stupid, it was great. And I just really loved this movie. If you're somebody who likes these kinds of movies that I'm talking about, and you also like horror movies, I want you to know that this exists and you should watch it immediately. Um, because this is now one of my probably top 25 favorite horror movies, top five slashers for sure.

SPEAKER_03 21:31

Nice. That's a lot of high praise from Paris.

SPEAKER_00 21:33

This is so on-brand for me. This feels like it was handcrafted for what I like.

SPEAKER_03 21:37

I wasn't sure about where Paris would fall because I felt like there's a lot in here that he would like. I knew he would love Denise Richards' character, but then I was like, mmm, but have I gone so far on the Paris scale that I'm right back around to the beginning of the scale where he hates it.

SPEAKER_00 21:51

Well, this movie's like aged into camp very gracefully. Like some of it's still relevant, and then some of it's like so out there now that it's it's camp.

SPEAKER_03 21:59

Well, Paris. I'm happy to know that at least your heart was fulfilled by this movie. This movie is not groundbreaking by any means, but it's definitely an easy watch. And there are a few moments where I think it demands a little bit more trust from the audience or a little more suspension of disbelief that it's actually earned. But it didn't stop it from being fun for me. And I expected it to be like a super bland experience on a second watch, but really truly pleasantly surprised by the little bit of depth you get and the dynamics between characters. So it's a fucking slash. Woo.

SPEAKER_01 22:30

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 22:31

But Ryan, I feel like it's important that this movie doesn't make it into the Universal Slash Club. We've been a little loose with those this year. And this is not for everybody. That's that's fair to say.

SPEAKER_02 22:41

I agree. I'm happy to uh level the stat field.

SPEAKER_00 22:45

You're keeping us grounded here.

SPEAKER_02 22:46

You guys are too nice.

SPEAKER_03 22:47

Well, there you have it, folks. Uh, we may be a little bit too nice, uh, but there are three happy hearts and slashes for Valentine and only one broken heart with a hack. You can find this movie available online. Uh, we have found it available for rent. Go ahead, check it out. Join us in the second half because we have so much to talk about when it comes to Denise Richards. See you in a bit.

SPEAKER_00 23:13

Denise Richards Non-Acting Acting Classes. Act like you're acting without acting at all. Never let them see you try. Never let them see you sweat. Never let them see you do anything. Go on, girl. Give us nothing. Show them you've got the most by doing the least. Stay unbothered while your best friends are slaughtered. Denise Richards Non-Acting Acting Classes. It's like acting, but not.

SPEAKER_03 23:39

Welcome back, folks. You are now entering the spoiler zone for the 2001 slasher Valentine. Now that one entered three slashes in one hack, which is a little bit surprising. We have a lot to unpack here, but before we get into the specifics of our ratings, we do have the gore to get to. Early 2000s, so you know, may not be satisfying to the gore lover, but let's see. Alexis, what's the gore score?

SPEAKER_04 24:01

I gave this a medium score just because the stuff you do see and like the antics around it are pretty gory. But unfortunately, I just uh I'll talk about it in the gore you know, but a lot of this is off-screen, which was just kind of, you know, not my cup of tea. You know, I like that full on gore. So I don't have to share my head. But I felt like, yep, this is one of those things where I'm gonna see it, and then you don't. And it was disappointing for sure. At one point you were like, watch, this is gonna happen off-screen.

SPEAKER_02 24:32

And it was the one time that it didn't. You were like, Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_04 24:34

Oh, yeah, the kill with Denise Richards, that was the one where I was like, they're not gonna show it, they haven't shown anything, and bam. I mean, you don't really see much, but you kind of see more than the others. More than the others. So I know there's only nine kills in this movie, but I know there's probably a favorite amongst everyone, or just I feel like everyone might like the same thing. So I'm gonna let everyone go first before I say mine.

SPEAKER_03 24:59

I'd like to get this one out of the way, if that's okay. Because it's actually gonna be the one that was my least favorite kill in terms of I didn't want to see it happen because I really liked the character, and that was Paige. Yes. It was Denise Richards.

SPEAKER_00 25:12

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 25:12

I have a few points about her character later that because I really want to go into just her whole vibe that she had, but she certainly had the most dramatic and theatrical death.

SPEAKER_00 25:21

Chris, that was also my least favorite death because earlier in the movie there's a comment made like, Oh, I'd rather be boiled alive. And I was like, Okay, somebody's getting boiled alive, duh.

SPEAKER_02 25:30

I didn't even notice.

SPEAKER_00 25:31

Yeah, so like like the moment they said that, I kept repeating that because I was like, that's just a hilarious response to do you want to dance with me? I'd rather be boiled alive. But the whole time I was like, okay, it's gonna happen. And then they set up the hot tub and I was like, here it is. And then like the killer locks her in the hot tub and I was like, here he goes, he's gonna crank it up to boil her. Wait, what is he doing with that drill? Huh? What? And so it took a oh turn I didn't see coming, and I was like, just boil her.

SPEAKER_03 25:54

This guy was for sure just winging it as he was going. He was like, I'm gonna suffocate her, I'm gonna drill a hole and see if I can hit her, then I'm just gonna fucking electrocute her because I don't know what else to do.

SPEAKER_01 26:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:04

So my favorite kill is Gary getting whopped with the iron. Because why wouldn't it be? There's nothing better really than that.

SPEAKER_04 26:12

Yeah, I did that. That was mine, so I'm glad I waited till full almost the end. But yeah, I like it because there was that build-up when we were watching it, where you know, there's this she kept it on, she kept it off, and I was just, you know, there's this build-up on that certain item that I'm like, I'm sure it's gonna happen.

SPEAKER_02 26:28

Yeah, now that you mentioned that and the hot tub, maybe there's I I didn't quite pick up on all those things while we were watching it, but you're right, there's like 15 scenes where they show the iron, and and evidently several scenes hinting at the boiling death. So that's really interesting. That one just like satisfied me, you know, like a good face burn. Can't be mad at that. You're right.

SPEAKER_00 26:47

I gotta say, mine goes to Lily for a few reasons. One, Jessica Caulfield plays Elle Woods' best friend in Legely Blonde. She just plays like a really hot idiot. So seeing her in like a role where she actually like, you know, has substance was a lot of fun, but I couldn't unsee that character from Legally Blonde. But seeing her go through that maze and then get shot three times with like the Cupid arrows, I don't know why, but I'm a sucker for an archery-related kill. But what really made it the best for me is when she was shot with the third one, fell over the railing, and just landed in a dumpster. That was very funny to me because I did not see it come and I was like, and then she just landed in the trash and the trash closed. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 27:24

You know what's even more hilarious than that? She actually got injured so many times filming that shit.

SPEAKER_00 27:29

Oh no, did they really drop her into the dumpster?

SPEAKER_03 27:31

Yeah, they really did. Oh no, yeah, she got uh she was wearing like a bulletproof vest, and it was just hilarious because uh the arrows kept knocking the wind out of her and she got like bruises on her back and shit. That's insane.

SPEAKER_00 27:42

Why would they do that to her?

SPEAKER_02 27:43

You know I'm a fan of hearing how people got fucked up on set. Paris, that's a scene that really stood out to me too, because like, you know, dying is one thing. You know, obviously we're watching a movie, but like the idea of dying, that's one thing to wrestle with. Dying to a bow and arrow is, I'm not really sure, something that I would be prepared for because I feel like you don't die instantly. I feel like you get some time to really look at your wound and just consider that someone killed you with a bow and arrow for a while.

SPEAKER_03 28:11

As we saw in wrong turn, that is a hundred percent true.

SPEAKER_00 28:14

I know, and that was my favorite kill then, too.

SPEAKER_04 28:16

It it is fun. So going along with deaths in the gore, you know. So, Paris, I know you said like there are certain parts where you picked up, like, you know, the foreshadowing of these deaths, and I thought was really cool. So, except for Dorothy or Kate, the um order Jeremy talks to the girls in that beginning scene is actually the order they're killed in.

SPEAKER_01 28:36

Ooh.

SPEAKER_04 28:37

Yeah. And when he asks each girl and they state each like a mean comment after that kind of foreshadows each of their fates, which I thought was really cool.

SPEAKER_03 28:46

Yeah. Petty is as petty does.

SPEAKER_04 28:48

Can you imagine someone holding on to something like that and then waiting, you know, this many years and being like, remember that one thing you said to me? Oh shit.

SPEAKER_00 28:56

Yes, I can.

SPEAKER_04 28:57

Well, I know mine would be like something like very perverted, so I would not like Oh God, Alexis. Have you turned someone down at the sixth grade dance before? No, I haven't. Usually I'm the person that's like, let's go on the dance floor. Or I was never allowed to go.

SPEAKER_03 29:11

Oh, okay. You would have danced with Jeremy. I would have danced with Jeremy. I would have. I wouldn't have had this issue because I didn't go to any dances.

SPEAKER_02 29:18

I'm actually like the type of person that I live my life, assuming that people are holding on to something that I don't even remember doing when I was in some grade school, even though I feel that I was a nice person.

SPEAKER_04 29:28

You probably should go to some sort of counseling.

SPEAKER_02 29:33

I am uh a run from my past type of person, even when there's nothing to run from, let me tell you.

SPEAKER_00 29:39

I don't know about y'all, but I was always like very nice to people in high school, especially the people that were like outcast, sort of. Like one, because like they needed it, and two because like I didn't want to be on any kind of list, you know. I'm like, just show somebody human decency and they're they're not gonna kill you if they're gonna kill people. I completely agree.

SPEAKER_04 29:56

So yeah, one of my disappointments was there wasn't a lot of death scenes straight on. And um, I know Ryan and I were both mentioning that when we were watching the movie. That was due to there's several death scenes that had to be trimmed post-production just to secure the um rated R rating, including a shot of Catherine Heigel's throat being slit and cut to a profile shot instead, which I would have loved to have seen. I feel like that would have been an awesome shot to just start the movie off, you know. And you can you can have your off-screen kills, like whatever you want to do, but I think that would have been great. Blanks was disappointed as his hopes for this like 80s slasher style meant you'd get better spills, some more blood. So Village and Warner Brothers had to had him trim several of the kills to get that rating and was awarded the rated art rating that you see now. Um, the argument was that they felt uncomfortable with releasing so much gore right after um Columbine, which I could totally understand. So, with that said, I understand where it's coming from. Still disappointed that um we didn't get more full-on gore.

SPEAKER_02 30:57

Yeah, I gotta agree, like there is a disappointment about the gore, and it's interesting how the world at certain times will impact things like movies. Like you you wouldn't normally expect this to be impacted by uh Columbine or something like that happening, but it does. And also it makes this movie not kind of age as well to me in a way that I'm expecting more gore and I would really like more gore, and they're kind of limited by the times that they made it. So it's interesting. But for me, something that's like gore adjacent that really stood out here that is sitting with me as we were going into Valentine's Day was the maggot candy.

SPEAKER_04 31:36

Yes, the maggot candy.

SPEAKER_00 31:37

So very gross.

SPEAKER_04 31:39

Interesting enough, that was inspired by um a childhood incident involving Don Coscarelli. So he saw his father eating a candy bar in the dark, and then all of a sudden he's his dad started spitting it out, and it was just like loaded with ants. So can you imagine? That was so crazy. But yeah, that was a really ugly. I just don't like things squirming like that.

SPEAKER_02 32:00

Yeah. So actually, ants would would ruin me more because I don't know what it is. Ants give me the ultimate hebie jeebies.

SPEAKER_04 32:09

Oh, yeah, at work we have an infestation, so I would be typing and they would be crawling over my hands and shit. It was the worst thing ever.

SPEAKER_02 32:16

Yeah, I'm I I will not eat a candy that has in it that comes in the shape of a heart this year. It won't happen.

SPEAKER_03 32:23

I'm gonna send you a heart-shaped chocolate chip cookie.

SPEAKER_02 32:26

I'll take the cookie and also chocolates that are in a different shape box that don't have a cute saying on the front and like Snoopy, but but not the two things mixed together. You'll eat her cookies, but not mine. I eat your cookies all the time. Okay. Okay. While we were watching this and during the maggot scene, I just want you guys all to know Alexis goes, maggots are good protein.

SPEAKER_04 32:46

Oh yeah. That's my uh meal prep calorie counting, macro counting. Yeah, it's not stuff coming out. It is good though. I'm just saying, like, if you get if you're in a predicament where you need protein real bad. You can't bear grills. I'll drink water.

SPEAKER_03 33:05

You can drink your own piss too.

SPEAKER_04 33:06

Yes, no, thank you on that. Well, you just looked up a log. I mean, I'm just saying if you're like out in the wilderness or something, slimy, it's satisfying. Yes, yes, very go. Lion King, come on. Wilderness tips with Alexis.

SPEAKER_00 33:18

I know the core was pretty light in this movie, but for me, part of what made it passable was that like it's been 20 years since this movie came out, so we know so many of these actresses from other things. So I feel like just like watching Catherine Heigel get her throat slit was more impactful than like watching anyone else get their throat slit, but they showed more of the blood. You know what I mean? Like, Denise Richards has been on Beverly Hills Housewives this past season, and seeing everything she's gone through in that, and then watching her get electrocuted in a hot tub really changes it for me.

SPEAKER_03 33:50

Oh my gosh. Yeah, I have not seen Denise Richards in anything recently.

SPEAKER_00 33:54

She still looks gorgeous and she's absolutely out of her mind, and I love it.

SPEAKER_04 33:58

I would say not. I think she's attractive. I think she's attractive, but I think she at this point, like today, had one more facial surgery than she needed.

SPEAKER_01 34:11

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 34:11

Haven't we all had one more than we needed? Someone said, Why does everyone want to look like a bike seat? And it kind of ruined my life.

SPEAKER_01 34:18

Damn.

SPEAKER_03 34:19

Yeah, I think outside of the gore, something that's always tangential to the gore is the killer and the look of the killer himself. And I gotta say, I'm actually a big fan of the mask and coat combo. Uh it looks like a very dapper killer, in my opinion. I love the fucked up cherub face, and it's one of the things that really stood the test of time in my memories from this movie. When I would think about it, I'd think of David Boreanis, Denise Richards, and then the Cupid in the Coat.

SPEAKER_02 34:44

Yeah, but also at the same time, my immediate reaction when we first see it, which is at the dance, was why is someone wearing a mask? That's clearly gonna be the killer's mask for the rest of the movie.

SPEAKER_00 34:53

Oh, absolutely. It was right there, and I was like, okay, that actually made me think a lot of different things were possible because I was like, maybe the killer is the person that was wearing the mask at the dance and saw everything happen, but I went too far.

SPEAKER_03 35:04

No, you went as far as the CW would want you to go.

SPEAKER_00 35:08

Yeah, exactly. Pretty Little Liars has trained me well. I mean, I truly do think that Denise Richards is gorgeous, and never more so than in this movie. The entire time just watching her face move and not move was fully satisfying to me visually. Um, but I did also really love the maze scene. I like that it was kind of just this like douchey artist's installation, and then it kind of became a really interesting set for a kill, which I liked.

SPEAKER_04 35:33

I didn't need to see those boobs on the scene on the screen though.

SPEAKER_03 35:37

Okay. Yeah you could have seen the boobs, but I didn't need to see the crooked teeth. Oh yeah, in like the giant screen.

SPEAKER_02 35:43

Everybody's mouths in the maze were like kind of uncomfortable. Like there's a thing when you have a phobia of like mouth noises, and this wasn't noises, but an up-close mouth is uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_03 35:53

Also, fuck that artist and his heteronormative bullshit. Now with building a maze that's not accounting for the gaze at all.

SPEAKER_00 35:59

Oh yeah, and it was totally just binary.

SPEAKER_04 36:02

I'm trying to think of the scene specifically, but um there's a few shots where you have um the killer, Cupid, wh whichever we want to call him, um, is in the background of a shot um with the character in the forefront, which I always thought was really cool. Um, it kind of reminded me, and I think it was backlit a little bit with red. So I thought that was cool. It reminds me of your guys' setup, uh, Parasynchris. So it was like so creepy. Uh specifically Chris's with um Michael Myers accidentally hanging on the back of the door. Also remnant of the Silhouette Challenge on TikTok. Yes, very, very, very.

SPEAKER_02 36:36

Yeah. For me, my favorite visual element, and it's actually one of my favorite scenes overall as well, was Campbell's kill and well, the death of Campbell in the basement. It was kind of a predictable scene. I think it was quite obvious that as he went down there, he was going to be followed. But it was such a uh, you know, creepy background type of scene, like you were mentioning, Alexis. And then when he actually dies, it it's a it's slightly unexpected the way it happens. He kind of like falls into his death. And I it was just something that it's really nice to watch as it happens, and then the death was also really good too. So that's my favorite visual element and my favorite scene.

SPEAKER_03 37:15

It's also great because he's backstabbing.

SPEAKER_00 37:17

Oh, true. I just have like a side question about that. Have you ever lit a pilot light? And is that something I'll ever have to do, or have we like evolved technology past that?

SPEAKER_02 37:25

Truly, never. Pilot lights exist on stoves, like gas stoves.

SPEAKER_00 37:30

I've seen it on a stove. I've done it on a stove, but like I don't ever want to go into like a spooky cellar and like light a match on a gas thing because what if it explodes?

SPEAKER_02 37:36

I don't think gas Yeah. I was gonna say it is a thing. Don't buy a house like that. It's a thing, but I don't think people really use gas water heaters anymore. It would be electric.

SPEAKER_00 37:44

Wait, can we talk about saunas? I thought for sure that bitch was gonna get killed in the sauna.

SPEAKER_02 37:48

I was upset. Also, who runs into a sauna, which never has more than one entrance and exit. It's always one way out.

SPEAKER_00 37:55

Famously, only the one entrance.

SPEAKER_02 37:56

Yeah, we did say that. It's like part of the design is it's a bunch of chairs, there's nowhere to hide, there's nothing in there. It's empty and hot. Like, why are you in there? I don't think that one was on though. No, no, no, it wasn't. But you know, in general, generally speaking, you see a sauna, you don't go into it unless you're ready.

SPEAKER_00 38:09

I thought he was gonna close it and turn it on.

SPEAKER_03 38:11

Yeah. But it would have been off-brand. He couldn't have because, you know, she wasn't the one to boil alive. Very true, very true.

SPEAKER_00 38:18

Nobody was the one to boil alive.

SPEAKER_03 38:20

He had to take his chance for Denise Ricky. He's like, Oh, I gotta save it.

SPEAKER_00 38:24

She shot his shot.

SPEAKER_02 38:25

They had to leave you hanging, Paris.

SPEAKER_04 38:27

My favorite scene um was I mean, I love this whole Catherine Heigel because no one knew she was in this movie.

SPEAKER_03 38:33

Isn't all Catherine Heigel great?

SPEAKER_04 38:35

Yes, she is.

SPEAKER_03 38:36

She's just dearly I actually love Katherine Heigel, even though I hear that she's toxic, but I think it's because she's a woman who stands up for herself and speaks her mind.

SPEAKER_04 38:44

I didn't want to know that.

SPEAKER_03 38:44

I was like, she seems like this sweet, sweet soul. She has a terrible reputation. But again, I wonder how much of that is people hating on her.

SPEAKER_02 38:52

But not so terrible that she's been blackballed, so it can't be that bad. Yeah. So here we go. I believe in it. I believe in the positivity of Catherine Heigel.

SPEAKER_04 38:58

Yeah, there is that. I just love the um atmosphere that first scene builds. Um, because you're like, what's going on? And then she clearly knows like someone's there. But it's it's it's awesome. My favorite specific scene is when they're going through the morgue in that whole scene specifically. Um, I love when you have the killer and you have all the the bodies out laid out. And I was like thinking, is this real? And I've actually heard from someone who has been in a morgue before that they are lined up like that. They're just chilling until I guess you they have time to go back and work on them, which I think is so creepy. So they're actually lined up like that. And I really didn't think he'd take the time to stab everyone, but I was like, oh wow. So it just built up a lot of tension for me.

SPEAKER_02 39:44

Bro, think about how sad it is for those other bodies that didn't do anything to this man when he was in elementary school.

SPEAKER_00 39:50

It's just getting poked.

SPEAKER_04 39:51

You're like, damn, my soul is just trying to go to heaven and now I'm stuck here in purgatory.

SPEAKER_03 39:55

I think the soul is already gone. If that's what you believe in. I think the soul's already left the body. So actually, that's my favorite scene too, and it's because it stands out to me in a sense of like it being a little tiny bit spooky, a dash of funny, and then ultimately memorable, right? A few points there. Uh, the feet are covered up on the corpse when she returns back to the room. And so it's like, okay, I know obviously this is the killer on the table because they made a big deal of showing that the feet were uncovered previously, but the logistics of this scenario. The killer got naked, got on the table, and maybe didn't get naked, but at least has their midriff adrift. Happens to be very gray. How would the killer's stomach be so pale? Yeah. Did they just bring some spray paint to make it look like they're a corpse? It's very elaborate.

SPEAKER_02 40:39

Also, can you imagine trying to lean a dead body in a closet? Have you ever had a really full closet and you're trying to like stuff it and get the door shut? No.

SPEAKER_03 40:46

That's my closet right now.

SPEAKER_02 40:47

Imagine a dead body leaning against the door.

SPEAKER_03 40:50

Also, the stabbing of the bodies. I think it's hilarious that he starts out unzipping everyone and then realizes how much time it's gonna take, so you just start stabbing.

SPEAKER_01 40:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:58

Also, one more like creepy tidbit that I've heard about morgues before. Sometimes the bodies are just like they're waiting for people to like identify them. Like they're just chilling. Like that's their home for a little while. It's sad. It's sad, but it may be that way sometimes.

SPEAKER_03 41:12

It reminds me of TPU in the military, where it's like a transitionary, like a temporary placement unit where you leave one command and you don't really know where you're gonna go. Like maybe you're being medically removed from one place to another, and then it just puts you in a building, and they just like give you a fake job, and you just stand there hoping someone wants you one day. Just vibing. It's like the misfit toys of the military. That's so sad. Just vibing for a little bit. It was the easiest job of my life for like three weeks.

SPEAKER_00 41:40

Speaking of easy jobs, my favorite scene in this movie had to be when Denise Richards tied that douche to the bed and burned his penis with hot wax.

SPEAKER_02 41:48

Oh my god. Listen, you don't get tied up on the first date, okay?

SPEAKER_04 41:53

You just don't. I loved all her antics. Like, I forgot what she had said to the cop, too. The line she said to the cop, but that was awesome.

SPEAKER_00 42:00

She was like, Take your hand off my thigh. He's like, Well, where would you like me to put it? And she said, How about up your ass?

SPEAKER_04 42:05

Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 42:06

Yes, that was diamond. But I mean, Paris, he did deserve everything he got for saying wax it.

SPEAKER_00 42:13

Oh my god, I know. I was like, smack him in the face.

SPEAKER_03 42:16

Yeah, who uses I? Ugh. So I'm glad we're talking about Paige here. Because I just gotta take a moment. She's the one who stood out to me the most this time around. And look, she's got her issues for sure. Seems like the girl who was super bitchy and probably was like the ringleader of the bitchiness and cattiness in her youth. But in present day, she seemed to be the most self-assured and unafraid to call men out on their bullshit for sure. Uh she got crap from her friends for being beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 42:43

Relatable.

SPEAKER_03 42:44

Like she was assertive with guys that she found attractive, and that was about it. But they made pretty shitty comments to her about her body. And okay, so she tells her friend Kate, Yeah, he put his hand on my thigh, and then she's like, Well, then you ask for it. Kate, you're an asshole, and I'm no longer rooting for you in your survival. On top of that, she's the only one to really acknowledge how horrible they were to Jeremy as a kid. It feels like she grew up the most and has dealt with some bullshit while everyone else is off in their own world. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:12

And she was just very like doing her own thing, but not dragging other people around. Yeah, he put his hand on my thigh, like it is what it is. Like, I don't care about that. I shut that down immediately. We don't have to worry about that anymore. I'm moving on with my life. She's evolved. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not in a way that is detrimental.

SPEAKER_00 43:26

I loved her because she was just like a good friend, too. Like they were all having problems, and she was like giving them good advice and being like, listen, men are garbage. What what can we do? We're just gonna we can just have fun and and live with it. So I feel like she was like a fun friend, and yeah, Chris, you just made me like her even more.

SPEAKER_03 43:41

She's a good person. She deserved, I think, to be the final girl.

SPEAKER_00 43:43

Oh my god, I was mad that she wasn't the final girl.

SPEAKER_03 43:46

Yeah, and like here's the thing she would have been, I think, one of the more original ones because you wouldn't expect her to be.

SPEAKER_00 43:52

Oh, I absolutely expected her to be.

SPEAKER_03 43:53

Right? You'd expect her to be like the hot one who gets killed, whatever. But I think she was the more interesting. All the friends.

SPEAKER_00 44:00

See, I did the opposite. I was just like, oh yeah, she's definitely the main girl, or she's good, she's the final girl. And then she got killed, and I was like, Oh, I guess she was the hot one.

SPEAKER_02 44:08

Yeah, she was the most interesting, but actually, like, I was pretty disappointed by her death. It was like the lead up was good, like the whole hot tub and everything. And then once the actual kill happened, I was just kind of like, eh, well, I guess I would have rather her just steamed in the hot tub like some crab legs, to be honest with you. So while Paige was like such a great character, totally in her own movie, like truly, honestly, it almost had nothing to do with the rest of these characters. Dorothy was the worst.

SPEAKER_00 44:35

Yeah, I thought she was super annoying too.

SPEAKER_02 44:37

Yeah, I just put I'd kill Dorothy too. Question mark. And also written just above that is I'm sorry, a Rolex? This man is useless. He don't deserve nothing.

SPEAKER_03 44:48

This guy you met in yoga have known for one month. Yeah, I know, right?

SPEAKER_00 44:52

Speaking of Paige and Campbell, can we they proposed a really interesting concept, which was letting someone into your pants versus letting them into your home? And like which of those is more intimate and dramatic.

SPEAKER_04 45:03

Oh, ooh, home. Home is more intimate. We all agreed. Yes, I completely agree.

SPEAKER_03 45:09

In their case, yes. In my case, the two are the same. No one's getting in either unless I really love.

SPEAKER_02 45:15

I don't have to love someone for the other, but it's a theoretical, a theoretical question, right?

SPEAKER_03 45:20

Like definitely you can have flings with people, but when you put someone in your home, you're opening up yourself to a lot of vulnerability. And if you let Paris into your home, he's gonna snoop everywhere. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 45:30

Absolutely. Especially if I live with you. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 45:32

I don't think anyone here, but if any of our listeners have listened to the podcast Dirty John, it's literally this movie is the beginning of that love story, which is they met and went on one date and then basically moved in. So uh be careful who you meet in yoga and bring to your house.

SPEAKER_03 45:47

Or anywhere. The good thing is that no one has internet ventures now, they just have Silicon Valley startups. Yeah, yeah, very true. You're not gonna get scammed making up your own internet service.

SPEAKER_04 45:59

I thought the biggest sleaze ball on this um in this movie was uh Max. So it's a the the artist or whatever who's oh yeah. Yeah, he was trashy and then he set up a threesome like that. I was like, are you joking me right now with Lily?

SPEAKER_00 46:16

Oh, that was funny. I forgot about that.

SPEAKER_03 46:19

Yeah, yeah. I didn't find him to be the most sleaze ball because he seemed to be the most upfront about who he was. He was the most upfront. Still sleaze ball. Okay, so you're telling me what I'm saying is that Max, in comparison to the serial killer, the guy who talks about himself in the third person, and the guy who's scamming his girlfriend, and the cop who made a sexual advance on someone who's work he's working on a case with. I think Max was the least of anyone's everyone's problems. He was just like your typical shitty dude, whereas the other ones were like heightened forms of shitty dudes.

SPEAKER_00 46:51

That's a good point.

SPEAKER_03 46:51

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 46:52

And most importantly, we got the best quote, which is you're really at home in this outfit.

SPEAKER_00 46:56

That's such a good compliment.

SPEAKER_02 46:58

Which is a compliment, but also I would have to think about it for a few minutes. I would just be like, at home?

SPEAKER_00 47:04

If somebody said that to me, I'd either be like, Are you saying I look comfortable, rude?

SPEAKER_02 47:08

Do I look warm and coast? Which is also kind of a compliment. It's a very there's a lot of layers.

SPEAKER_00 47:14

You look I look like I've been wearing this all day.

SPEAKER_02 47:17

I look like this is what I threw on three days in a row and it kind of sinks. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 47:21

Another line that I loved was when the girls are on their way into speed dating, Denise is talking about Adam and how shitty of a boyfriend he is. And he's like, relationships don't make you turns, and Adam is a drunk. And the way she just matter-of-factly says that her best friend's boyfriend is a drunk to her face. I'm just like, this is a good friend telling you what you need to hear.

SPEAKER_02 47:40

Literally, can you imagine ever to anyone in this world saying so-and-so is a drunk? Never, ever.

SPEAKER_00 47:47

But if you were dating a drunk, I would want to tell you.

SPEAKER_04 47:50

I think I've said works about Alexis's ex-boyfriend. Yes. And it was very deserving too.

SPEAKER_02 47:56

But not while a person still cares about somebody, you know? Like while somebody still cares about someone to say, hey, they're a drunk. Like, holy tips.

SPEAKER_04 48:02

No, it was like it's the slow, it's the grooming that you need for to get rid of the dude.

SPEAKER_02 48:08

The priming, maybe? Paige was not about the priming. She was on it. She was ready, first coat of paint on, no prime.

unknown 48:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:14

I feel like the maid was an underrated character.

SPEAKER_02 48:17

Oh, yes.

SPEAKER_00 48:18

Really, she just showed up. Well, listen, when Dorothy gets home and you realize, like, oh, she's rich, and there's a maid, you kind of just like see a shot of the maid in the background, and then the door rings, and Dorothy looks to the maid who's like way further away from the door, and the maid just kind of gives her a look like, bitch, the door's right there.

SPEAKER_01 48:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:32

And that really made me laugh. And if you can make me laugh without saying anything, you've done a good job.

SPEAKER_03 48:37

She served some looks and they were great. The la the last little bit I have here, this guy, David Boreanis, as Adam. Have you ever heard anything more toxic than you're the only good thing in my life? Oh god. All these other people, they can die as far as I care.

SPEAKER_00 48:53

That's codependence.

SPEAKER_03 48:55

If you ever have someone who says to you, You're the only good thing in my life, leave them now. Because they are gonna dig their claws in you further, and it's not a healthy relationship to be in.

SPEAKER_02 49:06

The only caveat would be if they're working towards making the other things better. But that's rarely the case when they say something like that.

SPEAKER_03 49:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:13

So just to confirm for the sake of clarity, he was the killer.

SPEAKER_03 49:19

Yes, he absolutely was. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:21

From middle school.

SPEAKER_03 49:22

He was Jeremy Melton. Classic surgery. Gotcha, okay. She ended up with a mask on. Okay. So there's a deleted scene because they didn't want it to be revealed so soon in the movie that he's the killer. But there is a deleted scene of him knocking out Dorothy. When the killer allegedly attacks Kate for the last time and they tumble down the stairs, the killer is just kind of running, right? Like disoriented. And when the mask gets pulled off of Dorothy, she has like a bruise. So she got punched and knocked out.

SPEAKER_00 49:53

Ah, she did have that. That didn't occur to me though. I was like, oh shit, it was her.

SPEAKER_02 49:57

Yeah, it was him the whole time.

SPEAKER_00 49:59

Because they they fully duped me.

SPEAKER_02 50:00

Hmm. You know, I just didn't really like care for, you know, him being the killer. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 50:05

I just feel like with that, with him being the killer, they had to do something different than just be like, oh, it was him, because it's almost the most obvious thing. So with the fake out of it being Dorothy, I really was like, oh shit, it was Dorothy. Well, she had just given that like quote unquote fat girl monologue, and I was like, okay, that can kind of I see how that could be true. And then just as I'm like coming to terms with that, I'm like, oh wait, it's not.

SPEAKER_03 50:27

Oh yeah, wait, it is the guy who it was pointed to the entire time.

SPEAKER_00 50:30

Yeah. So the fake out did get me.

SPEAKER_03 50:33

Yeah, you're so easy. It was so obvious. But that actually is is the worst part of the movie for me. Not the red herring of Dorothy, but just the transparency of Adam being the killer. When you have Gary finally killed, he's only killed after Kate mentions that Gary was talking to her to her again. And then as soon as they cut to another scene, David Borean is is outside the building. There are little things like that all throughout the movie where it just becomes increasingly obvious that he's the guy.

SPEAKER_04 51:05

That's weird. I didn't notice that. I was like, it wasn't completely obvious till like towards the end for me.

SPEAKER_03 51:10

It's also like he's the only one who doesn't seem shitty. Yeah, exactly. He has a substance problem that it seems like he's working on and trying to be better. He's like charming. He's the only one who's not glaringly obviously trash. Hence he has to be the killer.

SPEAKER_00 51:24

Interesting. See, I was also the whole time thinking it was Jason from the very first date with Catherine Heigel, because at first I thought it was a throwaway character, but then he like showed up at the at the art party, and I was like, oh, they're keeping him around. Maybe he's the killer. But I was wrong.

SPEAKER_02 51:38

But aren't we just so sad we didn't get more Catherine Heigel? I am sad.

SPEAKER_00 51:41

In the same way that we didn't get enough Drew Barrymore and Scream.

SPEAKER_02 51:44

Yep, exactly. Since obviously I hacked this movie, I'll go for my best part, which is something we've already talked about in depth. I mean, and it's Paige, she's the best part of this whole movie. And um as far as these characters and what they do and how much I care about them, I would say she kept me roped in the whole time. Her her interactions with everyone else are the best part of this movie.

SPEAKER_00 52:04

Honestly, the way Denise played that character probably didn't work at the time, but kind of works now. So I feel like you're right, Ryan. She totally kept it grounded. Like something about the way she didn't really perform at all made it kind of timeless because not performing looks the same always, maybe. I don't know. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_04 52:25

It does make sense, and I agree with you. The worst part for me, and I mentioned it before, is the lack of like desk you actually see. Like even Denise's, it's kind of just, you know, okay, if you're gonna show it, make it like so grotesque that you look away, kind of. I thought that would have been cool just to have that. That's the only thing really that would I would really say was the worst part for me. Trying to see that juicy blood, baby. Yeah, I mean, like it it it has the potential to be really graphic, but then I feel like if they did it too much, maybe it would be too on the nose for certain things, like the arrow thing. I was like, come on. Which I but I thought was funny. I just wish they played on some of it more.

SPEAKER_00 53:03

I hope that somewhere out there there's a unrated version of this that has all the deleted scenes you were talking about and all like the extended kills. Chris is shaking her head, this doesn't exist.

SPEAKER_03 53:12

No, the fans have asked for it, and Warner Brothers is not interested in doing it.

SPEAKER_00 53:16

Rude.

SPEAKER_04 53:17

Warner Brothers, I can't tell you. They're just ruining horror movies.

SPEAKER_00 53:21

Honestly, the only negative that I wrote while taking notes for this movie was just I wrote Jason the douche because referring to yourself in the third person has never been cool. I don't know whoever said that was. Have you guys ever like met somebody that actually did this? Because I've never seen anyone do this.

SPEAKER_02 53:35

Never. No, but it was disgusting. And also it was just like the things he was saying in the third person were also just disgusting and uh Yeah, such a tool.

SPEAKER_00 53:43

But I feel like he did his job. With that being said, I really like all the perspectives that you guys have brought. Like you were pointing out some things that I hadn't even noticed myself, so I will obviously be re-watching this movie probably soon, maybe for Valentine's Day. It's just a light, fun ride. It's such a perfect, like background horror movie.

SPEAKER_04 54:02

I like that. That perfectly describes if I had if I were to watch this again, it'd probably be within the f next few weeks. Plus, I want to see like all these tidbeds that you guys mentioned that I feel like I skipped because I was talking Rain's ear off.

SPEAKER_02 54:15

I'm never watching this again. I can say that confidently. I wouldn't be mad if someone put it on. If Alexis wanted to talk over it some more to me while we hung out, I wouldn't be mad, but I'm not gonna put it on as always.

SPEAKER_03 54:28

I'd watch it as a double feature with Valentine's Day from 2010.

SPEAKER_00 54:31

Yeah, I'd do that.

SPEAKER_03 54:32

Just shoot. That's okay. I know I'm alone in that. But uh we we've obviously talked a lot here, and I know that I'm not programmed as well as the good Android Mac, but in his absence, I have some bits of trivia for you for factor fiction. Number one, David Boreanis wanted to play the killer beneath the mask, but since they only had about two weeks of film with him, that made things tricky. To compromise, he was able to play the killer for Ruthie and Paige.

SPEAKER_02 54:55

I'm gonna say fiction on account of I think you did this like Mac, and one of those details is wrong.

SPEAKER_04 54:59

I know, Chris is pretty straightforward. She doesn't try to like get us on this, so I'm gonna say fact.

SPEAKER_00 55:05

I'm with Ryan. This feels fictional. I don't think that last part is real. I feel like at no point did he ever get to play the killer because he was just too busy, apparently.

SPEAKER_03 55:12

Well, yeah, it is fiction. Uh, the killer beneath the mask was played by stuntman, Marshall Virtue.

SPEAKER_00 55:17

We see you, Marshall.

SPEAKER_03 55:18

Yeah, David was much too buff and bulky to be playing that killer. That's a good point. Number two. While not considered to be among the most memorable slashers, this movie's origin story for Jeremy Melton did lend itself as inspiration for pretty little liars. Specifically the season five finale dollhouse prom. Fiction, I don't know. Fact.

SPEAKER_00 55:36

I'm gonna say fiction. Chris is just a big pretty little liars fan.

SPEAKER_03 55:40

So it is fiction, it's not true, but it's grounded in a little bit of reality because it is a fun fan theory I found online.

SPEAKER_00 55:47

I see it. It's plausible.

SPEAKER_03 55:49

I have a link, I'll drop it in the show notes. Number three, this may give you the vibe of 90s slashers, and it actually very nearly had another familiar face from one we've covered on this show. I'm so sorry, Ryan. Paige was originally supposed to be played by Jennifer Love Hewitt.

SPEAKER_04 56:03

I would agree with this, so I'm gonna say fact, and I just cause I've been saying everything's fact all night and it hasn't been right.

SPEAKER_02 56:09

It feels so true because I could see her in this movie, but I want to say fiction and pray that it was wrong.

SPEAKER_00 56:16

I am also gonna say fiction. Uh, Jennifer Love Hewitt did later go on to play a character named Paige in another fantastic movie called Heartbreakers.

SPEAKER_03 56:24

Well, I'm so sorry. It is totally a fact. I hate it. Why do you hate her so much? Let's take things further with Paige. Denise Richards was actually cast in this movie without an audition. Ooh, fact. Fiction.

SPEAKER_00 56:36

Fact. Ryan, we're on the same page tonight. I feel like they just were just like, oh, it's Denise Richards. There's a bathing suit scene.

SPEAKER_03 56:42

She's a babe. That's a fact. Alright, well, let's go on to number five. Despite the discomfort she's able to exude in the turbo dating scene, Marley Shelton, who plays Kate, has stated her experience cracking jokes with Denise Richards made it the most enjoyable scene to film. Ooh, fiction doesn't seem like a joke cracker. Fiction.

SPEAKER_00 56:59

I'm gonna say yes, because I just looked it up, and Marley Shelton is an Ares, which is very compatible with Aquarius, which is Denise Richards, so they probably had a blast filming.

SPEAKER_03 57:08

Oh my god. I love the lengths you go to for this research. However, it is fiction. And here's why. Marley Shelton was actually wearing a wool scarf during this scene, but it was made out of synthetic wool. And unfortunately, this was the time in her life when she discovered she's allergic to it. So the scene was actually terribly agonizing to film.

SPEAKER_00 57:27

Wow. I feel like that fact could have been a harder fiction to predict.

SPEAKER_03 57:33

Yeah, maybe. But I'm gonna give you a little bonus one here. Jessica Cofield, who portrayed Lily, had a great time filming with Johnny Whitworth, who played the shitty Max that Alexis disliked so much. Not only was she not exhausted by their kissing scenes, she actually described him as a great kisser. Fact, probably.

SPEAKER_02 57:50

I'm gonna go with you, Alexis. We'll go fact.

SPEAKER_00 57:52

I'm also gonna go with fact. She seems like she's, I don't know, having fun.

SPEAKER_03 57:55

Lucy Goosey? Oh no.

SPEAKER_00 57:57

I've just been enjoying herself. But that's who.

SPEAKER_03 58:00

Well, there you go. She did actually have a lot of fun. That is 100% of fact. So Johnny Whitworth, I guess you're a great kisser, man. Not that any of us will ever know.

unknown 58:07

Truly.

SPEAKER_03 58:08

Well, there you have it, folks. Valentine, in all its glory, has earned three slashes and one hack. Now, while we've certainly had a lot to talk about here, and we've had some surprising discoveries with perhaps Paris liking this movie, it doesn't end here by any means. So we want to know what you think. We want to know if this movie broke your heart. Keep in mind there are a number of ways you can reach out to us, starting with our website, hackerslash.com. And on our social media accounts on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter.

SPEAKER_02 58:32

If you've also seen this movie and you're afraid to eat chocolates now because of it, you can reach out to our Hackerslash Hotline. You can leave us a voicemail at 757-606-0128 or visit hackerslash.com slash contact. However, if you prefer to send us an email Valentine, you can send us one at feedback at hackerslash.com.

SPEAKER_00 58:50

If you've enjoyed listening to this episode and want to be our Valentine, consider becoming one of our patrons. You can visit patreon.com slash hacker slash to earn cool perks for as low as $1 a month.

SPEAKER_03 58:59

We'll see you next time, folks, and remember, relationships don't make you turns. Bye.