SPEAKER_05 0:04

I'm not mad at you, I'm mad at the dirt.

SPEAKER_02 0:11

Greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hack or Slash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. Nice to see rich folks got rats too. If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack, a total joke, a waste of time, or a splash.

SPEAKER_01 0:28

Totally killer. Unintended.

SPEAKER_02 0:30

We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, we're rating these movies with the perspective we've all gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast. This week I'm joined by the Superfly Space Guy Mac.

SPEAKER_00 0:44

Hola, muchachos.

SPEAKER_02 0:45

The gore lover Alexis. Hey everyone. The cowardly creeper Ryan. Hiya. And the Scream Queen Paris.

SPEAKER_05 0:52

Burnin' Hell.

SPEAKER_02 0:53

This week we're exploring a classic 90s film from a Titan of Horror. Before we do so, though, we have some follow-up about another classic.

SPEAKER_05 1:01

I guess it is a classic. We recently reviewed an American Werewolf in London. And everybody loved it. It was a smash hit. We won't talk about what we don't want to talk about, which is that I hated it, because that's fine. The poll results are in, and again I am wrong, 94% of everybody gave it a slash. So this is a very well-regarded movie.

SPEAKER_04 1:21

And the 6% was definitely Paris that said it was a hack.

SPEAKER_05 1:25

And the 6% honestly, I think was me. It would have been a 100% if I didn't vote in the poll.

SPEAKER_02 1:31

Yeah, you literally were the only one on Instagram.

SPEAKER_05 1:33

Okay, so this is actually a 100% slash according to the polls, minus my corruption haterness, my hateration for this movie. Let's read some comments about people who love this movie. Joe said, I did like this movie minus a few cringe moments. Seemed like a dark comedy with some tongue-in-cheek moments, but definitely a slash and totally rewatch worthy. We also have a comment from Brittany who said, an enjoyable enough movie. I can't really get into the older films as much as I would like to, but I appreciate the incredible effort that went into the effects. I wouldn't have watched without your influence, hacker slash team, and I'm glad I did. It's a soft slash.

SPEAKER_04 2:06

Mostly Ryan. Let me just say, normally I would be in her shoes, if not for myself on this podcast, talking about how great this movie was. Because normally I'd be like, this is an old movie. I can't get into it. I hate it. But you know, we're just here to shed some light on the amazing things in these movies.

SPEAKER_05 2:22

Yeah, you definitely sold that, Ryan. I'm pretty sure everybody that was convinced to watch it was because of you. Um, we have a couple more comments from our friends on Instagram. Sheldon said, A true classic gives you great traveling vibes minus getting mauled by a moondog.

SPEAKER_03 2:34

Shout out to Sheldon, too. He's awesome to talk to you on the grain.

SPEAKER_05 2:38

We also have a comment from Greg who said, I'm listening to the hackerslash review of an American werewolf in London, and hearing Paris hack this film is not nearly as bad as hearing Mac saying this is the best werewolf film. Like, have you not seen Ginger Snaps?

SPEAKER_01 2:51

I responded to that because I have not seen that movie. I had not heard of that movie either. So I responded, and he was like, Oh, sorry. So we've already interacted.

SPEAKER_04 3:01

Sorry, is that about a ginger werewolf?

SPEAKER_01 3:02

It's about a teen girl.

SPEAKER_04 3:04

Her name is Ginger. Ah, but a ginger snaps movie about a ginger snapping turning into a werewolf. How great would that be?

SPEAKER_05 3:12

I think her hair is Auburn. I remember seeing that movie on like Blockbuster.

SPEAKER_01 3:16

Honestly, that just sounds like real life.

SPEAKER_05 3:18

Oh, Mac.

SPEAKER_01 3:19

Yeah, I'm just kidding. I've known many gingers and they've all been amazing. So Alright, that's our follow-up.

SPEAKER_02 3:24

Well, ten years after an American werewolf in London released it in the United States, audiences here were introduced to a different type of monster. This time one that was in our own backyard and reflected realities that desperately needed confrontation. Inspired by a true story that took place in 1978, Wes Craven sought to create a film that represents the whole of American society and depicts the powerless confronting the powerful. Wielding themes of gentrification, capitalism, and fundamentalism, he brought to life a film that tells the story of a young boy and two adult burglars breaking into a house to search for a rare coin collection and become trapped in a fight for their lives. This week, we're talking about The People Under the Stairs. Who's seen this one before?

SPEAKER_03 4:06

I have not. It vaguely sounded familiar, the idea of people under the stairs, but I don't know. Had never really heard of it, nor have I watched it.

SPEAKER_04 4:16

Yeah, of course I hadn't seen it. Again, kind of felt like something might be familiar, and then when I saw like the promo images for it, I knew I had never seen this.

SPEAKER_05 4:24

I could have sworn I had not seen this movie before. Um, but while I was watching it, literally the whole time, I was still trying to figure out if that was true. If I have seen this, it was when I was very young. Most of it didn't seem familiar, but there was one like super specific detail at the end that I can swear I've seen before. So maybe I just saw parts of this movie. I don't know. But this was basically my first watch.

SPEAKER_01 4:43

I, on the other hand, clearly remember watching this movie at least a couple of times when I was younger. I think I started out also at a young age, maybe twelve or thirteen, and then saw it again two or three times in my teens, and I probably have not watched it since.

SPEAKER_02 4:58

Mm-hmm. So we got a mixed crowd here tonight. Now, I've known of this movie because I've seen pieces of it for sure. And I've also heard a ton about it within the context of like Wes Craven's influence and the themes he explored in it, but it's not something that I've actually seen in its entirety. That actually disappoints me a little bit though, because this has a story that I think I would have enjoyed watching unfold without knowing the plot details ahead of time. So I am definitely gonna be living vicariously through a few of you this evening.

SPEAKER_03 5:26

What were you folks expecting going into it? So it's interesting. Um, since this obviously came out before Harry Potter, I was like, oh, maybe this is about the people under the stairs and not the boy under the stairs. Um I clearly didn't think that, but I was like, oh, I wonder if this is where Harry Potter got its like, you know, little little nugget of information for that part.

SPEAKER_01 5:51

That's that's why Hagrid is a leather daddy because of this movie. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 5:56

Hagrid and some BDSM latence. Oh my god. I don't know if you can get all that hair in.

SPEAKER_05 6:02

Is that a JK Rowling rewrite?

SPEAKER_04 6:04

It's fan fiction. I really wish we would stop that. I really wish we hadn't gone where we just went. It's a dark, dark place. That would be some fan fiction for sure that I'm interested in. I'm down for. I wasn't really sure what to expect when I went into this movie. I thought there might be some supernatural elements, like when you start thinking about people under stairs, uh, tend to feel like there maybe is like a ghost lingering around or something like that. And then I was also really excited to see a large part of the cast being black instead of being a bunch of white people in a movie. That because we see that a lot, unfortunately. So I was pretty excited going in for that.

SPEAKER_05 6:40

Do you guys remember that one like two-part episode of Goosebumps where the dad is like a plant scientist and he lives in the basement and like becomes a plant monster?

SPEAKER_02 6:48

No, but I do remember that same plot from an episode Darkwing Duck.

SPEAKER_05 6:51

Okay, well, that's the only thing I could think of because there's like so many scenes where they're like going into the basement when the doors under the stairs. So I was like, maybe it's a plant dad origin story.

SPEAKER_01 6:59

I love the idea of that. This is one of those movies that I think back to as having watched it as a child and all that kind of stuff. But Little Monsters is another one. So Little Monsters, the people under the stairs, it definitely, as you know, as a younger person made me think that there might be people living underneath like the floorboards in old houses. Ew. That it just seemed like a common occurrence. Like it came came up so often in movies that it was like, well, maybe maybe this is a thing. Maybe you have to worry about that.

SPEAKER_02 7:26

Ooh, I don't like the sound of that at all.

SPEAKER_01 7:27

Yeah, but uh going into the movie for the you know the rewatch of 30 something me, I think I was expecting an entertaining movie. I didn't really know what to expect like in terms of depth of the movie because when I watched it originally, I wasn't thinking about that. I wasn't thinking about greater themes, and I didn't pick up on that as a as a young person. So going in now with new eyes, I was definitely looking forward to that.

SPEAKER_02 7:50

But was there a payoff for that?

SPEAKER_01 7:52

Well, I know we're gonna get into it, but this is this is like a community pool. There's varying depths to the movie, so there's a shallow end and all the way down to the deep end.

SPEAKER_04 8:02

Yeah, there definitely is, and it yeah, my feelings about this are so I don't know, stretched out. It's like in some moments I feel great about this movie, and in other other moments I'm in the deep end drowning, and I'm like, why am I here? And can I please get out? I I I'm not sure what I even felt during this movie. There was a a significant element of entertainment. I'll I'll go with that. We did get some of that, like what I th what I think of as like classic 90s goofiness.

SPEAKER_03 8:33

Yes, very jinx-y.

SPEAKER_04 8:34

Yeah. It kept me entertained. I enjoyed that.

SPEAKER_05 8:36

Yeah, there were definitely like hijinks and antics abound. It felt like a like a family movie, you know, um, which was interesting because there were moments where it was like very gory. So it was it was like an odd blend of like banana peel humor and a man's entire front skin being removed.

SPEAKER_03 8:56

Yeah, it hit a weird spot for me. Um, like you, Ryan. It I was like not expecting it to be funny, and it was. And I think once I let go of that, I was like, okay, I'm just gonna watch this for what it was and not what I thought it was gonna be. I felt a little bit better and I was a little bit more entertained, but it still was like, I just didn't know where I needed what I needed to feel for this movie while I watched it.

SPEAKER_01 9:19

While watching it, I did get into some of the depths that I was hoping for, but in many cases it did feel a bit on the nose, and I realized that it was pretty out there. It was all very surface level, like, here's what this movie is about, at least in my eyes. I felt like it was very clear, but I just didn't know as a teen like what it all meant back then, and maybe not as a teen, maybe as a 12 or 13 year old. I definitely was not paying attention to that stuff. Um, but I I feel like watching it again in my 30s, I did pick up on some of that, and it did make me like question the history of America and everything.

SPEAKER_02 9:54

Yeah, for sure. And it's this is so hard for me to have gone into without any expectation whatsoever, right? I try to keep an open mind to like, all right, I'm not gonna imagine that it's gonna be the greatest thing I've ever seen, but I know that there's some deeper stuff there that I can't unsee, like you can't unring that bell. And the reality is we've covered quite a bit of Wes Craven's work on this show, particularly in the recent years with like The Last House on the Left and The Hills Have Eyes. And we've seen how he uses his work as a means to express like a greater view of what the country is experiencing at the time, and this movie is a continuation of that. It's a ride that gives you so much to think about. It's packed with themes like class warfare, racism, sexism, religious fundamentalism, and I was totally engrossed in it. I it had me hook, line, and tinker every step of the way. I laughed, I was angry, I was disturbed, and I've I felt something every minute of this movie, which I think you know that's what surprised me the most. I had these lofty ideas of what this movie would be, and y yet I'm still shocked that I'm so hard pressed to find anything in this movie that didn't feel valuable or productive towards one of the themes in it.

SPEAKER_01 11:02

I I think that is a great surprise to reach. You know, it is something that if you're not expecting it, I think it kind of catches you off guard a little bit. I was looking forward to it, so maybe I was I was anticipating it a little bit too much. I think the thing that really surprised me, actually the things that surprised me were the child actors. I did not remember the quality of the acting that these kids gave us, uh, especially for 1991. And I know that obviously our our you know star of this movie was in The Mighty Ducks, and I have fond memories of of watching that, but I didn't expect to connect with the characters played by children as a 30-something year old.

SPEAKER_04 11:40

Yeah, I think kind of to go off of that, the thing that uh surprised me the most, or I guess disappointed me the most, is how strongly I felt about some of the characters in this movie. I I kind of tend to not really care about like a wide cast of folks. I usually, you know, cling on to one or two of our main characters, and the rest I'm just like, meh, whatever. But there are a few here, uh, and I don't want to say specifically who they are yet, but there are a few characters here where I was just like, I despise them and I despise the way they were represented on screen. And it it just kind of like ate at me as this movie went on. Like there was a point, there was like a turning point that happened in this movie, and then from there on I could feel nothing except just full displeasure with certain characters. So I don't know, it's a very this movie's like much more complex than you go in expecting.

SPEAKER_03 12:29

Yeah, I was so surprised at how 90s this movie was. Oh yeah, it was good. I was like, it was good, but it was also like it felt like like currently, you know how all these styles are coming back, like tube tops and bell bottoms. And I think it pisses me off because I feel like I should have just kept all my clothes forever.

SPEAKER_05 12:47

I've been thinking that too.

SPEAKER_03 12:49

Yes, I'm like tube tops are I'm like, why am I buying a tube top? I had one, I had plenty, even in college.

SPEAKER_04 12:56

Just think of all the free space you have now, though.

SPEAKER_03 12:58

Yes. So now it's like making a comeback, and it's just crazy how like I think watching it now, I was like, oh my gosh, these people are trying to be nice, even though it was made in the 90s, but that's how I kind of was in that mentality. But I mean, I kind of liked it. Um to me, some of that didn't transfer into like today, but um I appreciate it. It kind of surprised me how full of this even the music. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_05 13:21

I like Ryan was surprised by the representation of communities that we often don't get enough representation for in this movie, um especially for the time period that it was made in. I was also like Max surprised by the quality of the child actors, because it's almost always not the case. I was also, you know, surprised by the general tone of the movie being like a very, you know, family kind of horror movie that's definitely a little more kid-friendly than a lot of things that we've seen. Um but I was also kind of disappointed by that. Um it was hard for me to like really be scared by this movie. Um the stakes didn't feel that high. Um, so that was a bit of a disappointment.

SPEAKER_03 13:57

Yeah, it was weird because I know you Mac has seen this as a child, and that's how I felt like this was like Casper or something. Yeah. But then it was weird because I feel like this movie, and I feel horrible saying this, it's from Wes Craven. I mean, I love all his movies, but literally I feel like it was forcefully added, like the horror elements were forcefully added in this movie, so it could be labeled as scary or as such, you know, sex, violence, you know, the gore, obviously. It was just like thrown in on random parts and not consistent throughout the movie, which obviously wasn't very frightening, um, in my opinion. But as a kid, I could totally see watching this and being freaking terrified, like so terrified.

SPEAKER_04 14:42

Yeah, I I agree. And I think the thing that's like weird to me is like, why introduce those certain elements? Like, if you're gonna make like a kid-friendly horror movie, you can totally do that. We've seen that with Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark, where you get like a what PG 13 scary movie. And and so if you're gonna go that route, go that route, but then why introduce specifically the sex elements? Why? And and then there's like, I don't know, some some gray areas that we can talk about later of like how far they went with the different sexual elements and stuff. And so that's like what I didn't understand, and therefore, you know, I wasn't like afraid of any of it because I was just like, I I mean, I don't know. I guess I could see being afraid of it as a kid, but then at the same time, like I don't think kids should be watching this movie because it's it's weird.

SPEAKER_01 15:25

Neither does the MPAA because it was rated R.

SPEAKER_04 15:28

Right, as I think it should be.

SPEAKER_03 15:29

Well, weirdly rated R. Like weirdly kid friendly rated R.

SPEAKER_02 15:33

Yeah. I think we're confusing the it's starring a child for being like designed for kids, because it definitely wasn't.

SPEAKER_05 15:39

I feel like if you cut out 10 minutes, this is a G movie.

SPEAKER_04 15:42

Yeah, I mean it's it's definitely not designed for kids, but there's like a certain playful, childish feeling to it in in and in the humor and the way certain things are done. But arrest my case.

SPEAKER_01 15:54

I think I can speak to why that is, because the movie has the framing of a fairy tale. But as we know, when we look back at the actual original fairy tales, they weren't always very kid friendly. And and this one is not either. It just seems like a fairy tale when you look through the story structure, and so you kind of feel like it's maybe kid-friendly. You know, there's a lot of scenes that they're not straight into violence, but there's other scenes that are incredibly grotesque, and probably, you know, you shouldn't show that to a 10-year-old or anything. Uh, there's language in here that you definitely would not want kids to, you know, to listen to and reproduce. So yeah, I don't think it was scary, but I don't think that West Craven was focused on it being scary. I I think it was, you know, it was good for like the backdrop of the movie for it to be a horror film, but I think it was more more of his like social commentary than anything.

SPEAKER_02 16:43

Yeah, he's very much a director who is a director and storyteller first before he like really sinks into horror. So it it's a horror movie, but he cared more about the story that he was telling. And it he also didn't originally intend for it to come off this way. So he actually has this really good quote where he says it was written much more ferociously than it was acted. And I think in part it was just the goodness of the actors and actresses, they didn't have quite the meanness of spirit that would make it completely dark and evil. So it could have been a very different movie based on the performances. And look, I mean, I agree with you folks, is it's not scary in the sense of like thinking about this as a straight-up horror movie. But from the perspective of considering the vast inequities people face in our country, it should be frightening, even if it's not surprising. You know, we're now 30 years removed from this movie. And while a lot of it is still relevant today, it does hit differently. You know, we know there are secrets in suburbia, we know wickedness lives in humanity, even in white middle or upper class families. You know, we're seeing it on the news every single day. So it's it's not frightening from a horror movie sense, but it I think does do well to show you that evil lurks everywhere, even if it's not trying to scare you the whole time. But given its mix of playfulness, given the humor that is in this movie, did it feel different enough to you to stand out?

SPEAKER_03 18:03

It felt familiar, and I feel like this when we come to this part of the podcast, people say it feels familiar, but it's still original. Some of the story elements remind me of Candy Man. Um, and one of the first like horror movies I saw with my grandma was Mommy Dearest. I don't even know if they consider it a horror movie.

SPEAKER_05 18:21

Yes, very mommy dearest.

SPEAKER_03 18:23

Yes, and I got those vibes so much with um the woman in this movie. And literally, I don't know, it was just it it felt different, but then it I was like, oh, is this just home alone? But like, I don't know, it was like clearly this movie came before some of the movies that I'm referencing, but I don't know, it felt original, but not really.

SPEAKER_04 18:44

Yeah, I think it didn't stand out as original to me.

SPEAKER_03 18:46

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 18:47

This movie definitely inspired a lot of things that came after it, but yeah, I definitely got uh mommy dearest vibes, Alexis. I wrote that in my notes. It also just like reminded me of that one scene in Matilda where they break into the trench bull's house and they're trying to escape, and it's like all these like antics and chases and hijinks and stuff, which obviously came afterwards, but I was like, oh, this is like that entire scene turned into a movie. But I feel like the premise was pretty original. Like I like the eat the rich vibe, and also like the antagonists aren't who you think they are. So I feel like this gets originality points, but it it certainly feels like stuff we've seen. Also the Goonies, the Goonies of it all.

SPEAKER_03 19:23

Oh, yes, one of my favorite movies.

SPEAKER_05 19:25

I've literally never even seen the Goonies, but I was like, I'm pretty sure this is the Goonies.

SPEAKER_03 19:29

Oh my god, you're so mean. Well, you should watch it.

SPEAKER_01 19:32

It does have the vibe though. It has that feeling of while you're watching it, like this feels like this is someone's, you know, cult classic favorite film. Yeah. It has nostalgia attached. Even if it's your first time watching it, you probably like felt that little bit of somebody probably loves this, and maybe for good reason. But I I do think it's because it is a fairy tale movie. It does have the like that framing of being this urban legend, maybe, or like a long-standing myth. So I feel like it's its own special iteration of you know, a narrative that's probably been around for a while. Uh, it definitely got originality points for me. It has its own, its own vibe to it.

SPEAKER_02 20:09

Yeah, and I mean we we already shared that his inspiration for this came from a real life headline about a couple of burglars who discovered something sinister in a house that they broke into. But when you consider that, you know, the movie falls squarely into Home Invasion Gone Wrong, and there are movie a lot of movies like that. This deal stands on its own in terms of originality because of the way that he weaves everything into it. You know, it's a step in the right direction in terms of inclusion, right, in representation. It's you know, taking a stab at sending a message that desperately needed to be sent. Again, this movie's set in LA. This movie comes out the same year of the Rodney King's beating. And there's a really interesting book. I listened to it on Audible a little while back, and it's called Directors Take Three, where they give perspective in it to like Martin Scorsese, Clint Eastwood, Wes Craven, uh Tim Burton, and they give different perspective and insight to their approach to filmmaking, to their approach to storytelling, and Wes Craven also does talk about this movie in that. It is so dope to hear.

SPEAKER_05 21:13

That does sound really good, especially the Tim Burton one.

SPEAKER_02 21:16

Oh, yeah, no, there's a lot of good nuggets in there. But I will say that I think the approach to the story that he was telling got the most payoff for me in the ending. How'd you all feel about it?

SPEAKER_03 21:25

I thought it was very straightforward. I kind of like the way they took the ending. Um, it you know, it can go two ways or multiple ways, I guess. But um literally I like it. I I I enjoyed it. I think it was one of those things where I'm usually rooting for someone else, and then I kind of just kind of flip flopped on that. But I um I appreciate it. As straightforward as it was, I like that a little bit when I don't have to think too hard.

SPEAKER_04 21:49

I think I have a fairly unpopular opinion where this ending was not satisfying to me. And I think it's because uh at the point that I've the way that I felt in that moment. There's nothing that they could have done that would have been satisfying, I think. I don't know. It it was underwhelming to me, even though it was like what you would want to happen, I guess.

SPEAKER_05 22:10

I feel like the ending was alright. That's what I wrote. It was like, okay, that's a logical sequence of events. Yeah. Um, I have a lot of questions about the ending. Um, but also some of some of my favorite scenes came towards the end. So I feel like the ending was not the worst part of this movie.

SPEAKER_01 22:26

It was definitely the Goonies level ending, I think you you might have expected going into going into the movie if you were thinking maybe this is kind of childlike in a way. Like this is the ending that matches with that. But I think it's it's definitely a more of a like an on the nose ending when you start to realize what you know that the movie is not just a story about a you know, a kid in a certain place that gets in this house, that it's a story about America and where we've been and where we need to go. It's like this is the this is the ending telling you like, okay, now that you understand everything, this is where we need to to to go to deal with the problem. And it's it's again, it's it's got some depth, but at the same time, it's just all out there in front of you, so it's not hidden away super deep. I think the ending was satisfying for me, although it is a little bit cheesy feeling in a in a way. It it does feel a little bit cheddar. Um, but I but I I liked it. You know, it I think this for me wraps up that the film, although it is inclusive in a way, is still written from an outsider's perspective, and it's it's hard to watch it and not feel that the whole time, you know, in a way. And so that it gives you the payoff that an outsider would expect.

SPEAKER_04 23:35

I completely agree with that.

SPEAKER_02 23:37

You're absolutely right, and I think one of the things that is pointed out in Horror Noir History of Black Horror, this movie was groundbreaking for its time, but it's also more of like an intellectual exercise from someone who cares very deeply about philosophy and humanity, but not someone who's lived those experiences. However, this movie is lined up for a remake by Jordan Peel. Ooh, whoa, that's exciting. It is.

SPEAKER_04 24:00

Count me in on that. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 24:02

I'm heartily looking forward to that. I love like pretty much everything I've seen him come out with. And I feel like he would have he's got the chops, you know, he's got the ability to take this and turn it into something really meaningful.

SPEAKER_02 24:13

For sure. And now I'm I know I'm looking forward to it. That was announced in October of 2020. We'll see when we get there, right? But for now, let's focus on the movie at hand, the original 1991, the people under the stairs. Before we get to the ratings, Alexis, how many people died in this movie?

SPEAKER_03 24:28

Total of five people had died in this movie. Pretty low compared to the weeks we've had. So um we're taking a minor break a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 24:35

Well, what about the animal report? Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:38

Animal report isn't great this week. It's definitely not if you're like hypersensitive to anything involving animals and violence or anything, this isn't gonna be the one for you. Um, it's you can you can get through it, but it's rough. It's pretty rough.

SPEAKER_02 24:51

All right. Well, that being said, let's go ahead and get into the ratings. The people under the stairs, 1991. Was it a hacker or slash?

SPEAKER_04 24:58

So I have a lot of very mixed feelings about this movie, and I've spent like a few days now thinking about it. There's a lot of things that I really, really enjoy about this movie. Uh, I've said many times before that like 90s horror is like where I want to be. It's my jam. It feels good. This movie gave me some of those same like candyman feelings. I like the setting. I like the introduction of several different characters, and you know, I I like what they started with. And then it takes some turns, and some some people do some weird things or introduce to some other characters, and it it just turned me off and it it made me feel like a person is trying to make a movie to represent people that need representation, but it fell flat in that effort to me. I think the biggest thing, oh, aside from all of the the deep tones of this movie, because they're not even undertones, they're very outright, very in your face. Aside from that, I had a couple of issues with like the story. I didn't understand how some things related to each other, and we can obviously talk more about that in a bit. But there were some places where I was like, that fell flat for me in the story. Um, why is some of the motivations of the characters and stuff like that? And then also going back to the themes in this movie, they fell flat for me as well. It just basically left me with this question of like, is it representation just because we have a few characters that are the main characters of this of this movie that are black? Or is it also fighting that because of how the the white characters in this are represented and how they I don't I'm not even sure the right word to use, how there's like a fun to them and in what they're doing that it just like it rubbed me the wrong way and just made me feel like it didn't achieve what it was trying to achieve. I'm not sure. I feel really conflicted about this movie, but it is a hack for me. It's not a hard hack. I don't like hate it, but I do not like how this movie made me feel, and it left a bad taste in my mouth.

SPEAKER_05 26:59

Ryan, I feel like, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like you're commenting on that this movie attempted to tackle something very serious, but it didn't do it in a serious way, and it felt kind of off. Yeah. It was like too like lighthearted.

SPEAKER_04 27:12

Yeah, it was like we're we're gonna have some fun with this, and I'm like, it doesn't feel fun.

SPEAKER_05 27:16

Yeah, I l I really like that they did try to go for topics like this, especially like this past year, we've seen like the culture of like being a landlord and like how evil that can be. Um, so seeing thou seeing those characters villainized was refreshing, especially for a movie that um is so old at this point. Um, but for me, I was like honestly really bored during a lot of this. There were so many scenes with like a dog, there were so many scenes with like a gun and some walls and some tunnels, and it they all just blurred together for me, and I was like, there was a solid chunk of like 40 minutes in the middle where I was like, okay, this how much longer can this go on? Um I did love like the mommy dearest vibes though, like the the mother character I found super interesting, as well as the daughter in their relationship was probably one of the highlights of this movie for me. Um, but like in general, I can see the appeal of this movie, and I feel like this is probably a lot of people's favorite movie, but it did not appeal to me. Uh so it's a hack.

SPEAKER_03 28:12

Interesting, interesting. I think I'm like Ryan, I just essentially see like a few different plots, um, and I'm not sure where they connect or if they connect. Um, but I don't know. I appreciate this movie for what it is. It's it's very Scooby-doo-ish, in my opinion. Um, I do love this set. If there was anything that I would love more, is to have a house with all these sort of traps. And I'm like, oh, let me take a slide, especially as a kid. And I really wish I would have seen this um when I was younger, because I feel like I'd have more of an appreciation for it. It would have some sort of place in my heart. But this movie just was flat for me. I just was like, okay, cool. I was felt like I was watching, like Paris mentioned, the same thing over and over and over and over again. And when I did see the gore, I loved it, and I was like, man, that's all I got, though. So I was very disappointed in that too. So I mean, honestly, I this movie was entertaining, but it just wasn't something I'd ever watch again. So I'm gonna give it a hack.

SPEAKER_01 29:11

Well, I'm excited to dive in here. You have set a great stage for me to stand on. The movie is dated, and I think you have to definitely consider that when watching it. It's 1991, and like we've mentioned, you know, it's it's West Craven directing, and it is from an outsider's perspective. It falls into a lot of the traps that movies of its time fell into, which is you know, if you're going to show an urban setting, specifically LA, you're gonna show like crackheads basically everywhere. You're gonna show completely dilapidated buildings, you're gonna show people that don't have jobs and don't have any money, and and then of course you're gonna show people that you know they the only way they can make it by is to steal and and and be criminals. And so, yeah, it's it's a horrible setup. Like that part of it is painfully dated and completely out of sync with with reality. But I think as a story, it is a fairy tale. If you took this and set it in like feudal times in England or something, the story itself would play out and and work. Like these people, while they're landlords and they're slum lords, they would ultimately be portrayed as like you know, the lord of you know some area, and they're not quite the king and queen, but they're definitely the evil lord and lady, and these are their subjects. So I think as a story, like the the framing of it just works because it's so it's I don't know, it's so familiar. It's something that we've seen a million times in other in other stories. Now the specifics of it are pretty pretty damn crazy. We'll say that. That's it's kind of absurd and insane, which is what think I I think makes it really interesting. The allegory that it plays with, again, it's right there, it's right there in front of you, but also it it does make you think about deeper things that are going on in the world. And so I think I'm gonna give it credit for the attempt, especially in 1991, although I feel like this kind of thing was was becoming all the rage. Unfortunately, even though light was being shed back in the back in the 80s and 90s, uh unfortunately it didn't happen fast enough. So we've now only increased uh how horrible the situation is throughout the last 30 years. But I think we're we're at a turning point where you just you just can't pretend that you're blind at this point. So I don't know. I'm gonna give it a slash. I'm gonna say it's worth a watch. For me, it's been a classic, it's something that's really memorable. I think you can definitely nitpick it and break it down and and call it whatever you want to call it, but I think it works as a as a film. You just you just have to remember that 1991 date.

SPEAKER_02 31:44

For sure. Well said. Every ounce of this movie is intentional, right? And and it has its imperfections. It's so far from being a perfect movie or even West Craven's best movie, but even the wild bits that made me cringe contributed to the overarching message that was being driven home. Just like you know, Ryan, you pointed out, like the joy or child or playfulness that um the playfulness that I was being approached with some of the antagonists in this movie. That 100% it was weird to me, but there's a reason for it. And you know, could this have been a different experience had I not learned all the in-depth stuff about this before going into it? Yeah, probably. But I can't go back in time and undo that. So I can't help but look at it from this perspective. This movie starts out with a tarot card reading, and there's a quote about the card being the fool, and the character reading the card specifies like you know, the fool isn't the stupid kind of fool, it's just ignorant because you don't know, you know, you're just starting out, you just don't know. And that's Craven's whole approach to this movie. And really the audience was the fool because the audience is uh ignorant, we're blind to the to the horrors that are about to unfold in the movie, in the house, the same way we're blind to the horrors in our own neighborhood. And I think Wes Craven taking a chance and taking a crack at telling this story made it accessible because we can't be where we want to be if someone doesn't start. And unfortunately, the reality is that some people will flock to Wes Craven because of his prominence and his stature. So I'm not mad at the attempt. And when I say like the whole we, right? Like we're blind, obviously I mean that generally. I think it feels a little less applicable in present day, just like you were saying, Mac. But it's still absurdly important, right? Now things are changing, especially as you consider how as a society we're beginning to reckon with the wild injustices that have always existed, but we shouldn't be complacent. And this movie was an excellent reminder of that at every turn. Even in its simplest form, it's still highly disturbing. It's entertaining and funny in some places. And for me, it's a compelling watch. So for that, it's a slash. I'm not surprised. And with that, Mac and I stand alone as the only two slashes because the people under the stairs was majority rule to hack. You can find this movie streaming online. It's available for rent. Up to you if you want to check it out or not. It is a West Craven classic, but it sounds like the majority of us wouldn't recommend it. But join us in the second half so we can unpack all the allegories and themes that West Craven takes a crack at. Let's see in a bit.

SPEAKER_00 34:15

Catch the explosive Tell O Expose by the Stairmaster, one of the people under the stairs, now on audiobook. A stair raising tale of terror and triumph. Translated and narrated by Cornelius Bubenheim. Listen to the struggle, the hopelessness, and how the staremaster learned to love himself when no one else did. That love and a lot of hard work led him to pass the bar exam and become a legal champion for all people under the stairs. His prosperous legal career allowed him to start his own business, following his passion of personal fitness training, leading to a 200 franchise fitness empire across every state. If you reach for the moon, you'll crawl beyond the stairs. Listen to the author's own words about his victory over hardship.

SPEAKER_02 35:20

Which didn't fare too well. It earned three hacks and two slashes. Now we have a lot to get to here, especially with the number of themes in this movie. But before we get anywhere near that, Alexis, what's the gore score?

SPEAKER_03 35:31

Honestly, for one thing that's in here that's gory or maybe another thing, it it's pretty low. Like, there isn't really much gore in this movie. Um, I really wish there was more. Um, obviously there one in scene in particular. I'm sure we can all talk about that right now, because it is pretty freaking gruesome and it happens out of nowhere, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_01 35:53

But how does it happen out of nowhere?

SPEAKER_03 35:54

You know, the scene where um the guy is getting his skin cut off, okay. Hanging upside down.

SPEAKER_01 36:00

Okay, yeah, that.

SPEAKER_03 36:01

That was like to me very jarring. I was like, wow, you're not gonna bring much into this movie, and then all of a sudden you're bringing that.

SPEAKER_01 36:07

Well, I feel like the fact that they ate humans was implied up to that point, and now they're just like confirming it.

SPEAKER_03 36:13

Yeah, when you threw the pieces, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:15

Yeah. When the woman is at the door talking to you know our main character, and he's offering to sell cookies, and she's like, We watch what we eat. It's like boom, cannibalism.

SPEAKER_03 36:27

You you guys think we tune into movies.

SPEAKER_01 36:29

Um, I just took it as were they cannibals too, the parents?

SPEAKER_02 36:31

Yeah, you didn't realize you didn't see him eating from uh Leroy's body.

SPEAKER_05 36:35

Oh yeah. But I didn't like get the vibe that like they were full-time cannibals as well. I thought they would just like use that to feed the people under the stairs and then also sample sometimes.

SPEAKER_03 36:45

Yes, yeah, just to make sure it's not poisonous before they give it off.

SPEAKER_02 36:48

If you're only in cannibal like one week, right? You're not like a full-blown cannibal. Yeah. It's like part-time vegan, bad vegan diet, right?

SPEAKER_01 36:55

Exactly. If you eat one bit of human, you're a cannibal. That's how it works.

SPEAKER_03 37:00

Anyway, that scene was really tough. It was so tough because I think it just cuts to that, and you're like, whoa, what am I watching? Just out of nowhere.

SPEAKER_05 37:08

Yeah, after like 20 minutes of a not gory movie at all.

SPEAKER_03 37:12

Yeah. All we got was a hand, like with some scrapes before that.

SPEAKER_05 37:16

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:16

Well, interesting enough, that hand was done obviously with a fake edible hand. Um, that was covered in this like red sauce, actually. I'm not sure if it was spaghetti sauce, you know, some sort of tomato base. I'm sure. I'm totally sure. Because like while the dog was chewing it, Wendy Roby, the actress who plays um the woman, saw like there was wire in the dog's uh mouth, which is so weird because my first instinct would not be to go into the dog's uh take the my hand and reach it into the dog's mouth. But it was definitely her instinct to do that. That's what you do when you have a dog. Yeah. But it it wasn't hers. I don't know. You don't know dogs.

SPEAKER_01 37:56

You hang out with the dog for a couple minutes, you know the dog, you're gonna protect it. That's kind of how it works.

SPEAKER_05 38:01

Yeah, you put your dog in that, you put your hand in that dog's mouth and get out whatever it's trying to die on.

SPEAKER_02 38:05

If the dog is well trained enough to star in a movie, it's well trained enough to not eat your hand.

SPEAKER_05 38:11

He's a superstar. His dog was a good actor.

SPEAKER_03 38:13

Yeah, you're right. I was gonna say if it wasn't uh dog actor, then sure. We can we can we can deal with that. I know there's not that many like kills in this movie. There is five. I think the one I was most satisfied from was obviously the man. Oh the dynamics of him blowing up in the house, yet a fool gets out. I'm not sure. But um he made me feel so grotesque toward him and like her him and the woman that I hated them so much, and I had to realize, like, yeah, they are just actors, actresses playing this stuff. They're actually not real out there, Alexis. Um, but yeah, I think his, I was just like, fuck him. So I'm glad he died.

SPEAKER_04 38:54

Yeah, I mean, I kind of have to go for that same. I can't say any of the other kills were anything I wanted to see because I was all bummed out by all of them. So the woman's kill would be my next favorite, but it wasn't as good as the man, I'd say. I like the idea of being blown up in the house.

SPEAKER_02 39:10

Yeah, I would agree with that. I liked the woman's death because I cannot stop thinking about Chicago. He ran into my knife, he ran into my knife ten times. I'm like, she literally ran into a knife.

SPEAKER_05 39:20

Very that. I thought the same damn thing, Chris.

SPEAKER_02 39:24

Good, good.

SPEAKER_05 39:25

I feel like the woman's kill is my fave though, because I feel like she was the final boss and not the man. He really just seemed like the henchman who was an idiot and actually posed no real threat because he was so dumb, whereas she was sort of the evil mastermind. Um so I kind of wish she got the final boss treatment, but I did really enjoy her kill scene, especially that it was the hands of her illegitimate daughter.

SPEAKER_02 39:46

Mm-hmm. Especially since she already said, You kids are gonna be the death of me. The death of me. No shit. As soon as you say it, it's done. You've written your own fate.

SPEAKER_01 39:55

It's hard to pick any other kill in the movie after those two, because you don't really want to watch Leroy die. Not at all. And Roach, you really feel for it. And so I'm gonna pick that one, not because it was a satisfying kill, but because he had a good little send-off, passing the baton of you know, information, I guess. I I know my fiance went, you know, aww, like when it happened, but when it happened, it was just a wholehearted, just good feeling kind of moment of what a great guy, just helping people out.

SPEAKER_02 40:27

Yeah, I feel like with Leroy's death, it's so hard to stomach. They do this whole dance because kind of seems like a jerk, but no matter how shitty of a person you can be, you don't deserve to be gunned down. That was the moment where like I didn't know if I could continue watching it because of how brazen it was, and just like I think, especially watching this now in 2021, it's just it was it was really hard to stomach.

SPEAKER_05 40:49

True, that was rough, and it went on for a whole lot.

SPEAKER_01 40:52

It was really extended. It was definitely showing the fact that man, father, whatever you want to call him, loved the hunt of human beings and just like his level of sickness, and was also so bad at it. Yeah, literally like how many holes did he blow in his own house? Yet somehow when the cops show up, they're all patched up. And speaking of holes in the house, the house for me was my favorite thing to look at in the film because it reminds me of like when we watch the boy, you know, and he's like running through the inside of the walls, but just the concept of there being an inside to your walls is somewhat disturbing, and especially if you're 12 or 13 when you're watching it, like let alone the idea of people living underneath the stairs, but like the idea that somebody could be running around inside of your walls is truly disturbing.

SPEAKER_03 41:36

Yeah, ditto for sure. It's like the set design for me. I don't know. One of my friends uh growing up, she had a house where there were two sets. I mean, this is how you knew I grew up in Cleveland and not in a nice house. She had two sets of stairs, one on opposite sides of the house that went up to second floor. And I was like, oh my gosh, this is awesome. And there was like a little attic door where she had her like cat and everything. It was weird. And I was like, man, I just love the ins and outs of a house, and especially like some houses that are in um where you rent beach houses in Florida, just the design of them is really cool. Like there's backrooms, there's this, there's that. And I love that in general, in reality, and in movies, I like the way it um plays about.

SPEAKER_01 42:20

You know, what's it's disturbing? I don't know why, but attics and basements. I never really like had them growing up. Oh, yeah. And so I've seen them more often now as an adult. And something about the door to either one bothers me. Being in a basement, fine with. Being in an attic, I'm fine with once I'm there. But like the unfinished attics you see where there's like just insulation and stuff, knowing that there's this little, like, I don't know, four by four door, it's just a piece of wood covering it. It's like somebody could be up there and I wouldn't know. There's no lights up there. I can't like walk up the stairs to see it.

SPEAKER_03 42:53

Someone could be anywhere, Mac. We we've seen way too many horror movies to know people live in the attic.

SPEAKER_01 42:58

Right. There could be dozens of people living there. But I feel like that you get that nice vibe from from this movie. Like, there's so many like secret passages throughout the whole house.

SPEAKER_03 43:08

Right? It's fun, especially as a kid. I I could imagine, like, if you were when you were watching this, you probably like like that idea. You're like, this is cool. There's slides, there's buttons, there's this, there's that, you know, trapdoors. Like, it's great.

SPEAKER_05 43:20

It definitely had the Casper energy, like you were talking about earlier, Alexis.

SPEAKER_03 43:23

Oh, yeah, it did.

SPEAKER_05 43:24

Like the Christina Ricci Casper movie.

SPEAKER_03 43:26

Oh my gosh, when they took the slide down to the basement, that was great. And then the ball comes out of the water.

SPEAKER_05 43:31

It was the same architect.

SPEAKER_03 43:32

Yeah, it really was. Just quickly. I like the look um of the people under the stairs. I wasn't expecting them to look so jarring, and they did. Um, sort of like vampires, but um, it's all good, like a Brad Pitt kind of vampire, but not with the beautiful hair.

SPEAKER_02 43:47

Oh, well, one of them did have beautiful hair. Didn't you see them like wink or like laugh and and walk away at the end of the movie?

SPEAKER_03 43:53

Possibly. I need to go back and check that out if they had uh Pantine Pro V.

SPEAKER_02 43:57

Yeah, yeah, truly. So for me, the in terms of Terms like visuals in the movie, sure, they for sure look cool. Especially when you have like Roach's long pale arm reaching out to give her back the fork, and it's like, okay, is this a monster movie?

SPEAKER_05 44:10

Yeah, that was spooky.

SPEAKER_02 44:11

And then you realize, oh no, these are just humans who have been abused. But for me, it's the way they light this movie, specifically with the use of flashlights in the basement. There's a point where Fool finds the coin uh right after he's like run into Spencer and he's slowly lifting it up, and all these lights are flashing through, and it's just the most beautiful shot in the entire movie.

SPEAKER_05 44:35

Yeah, there's definitely a lot of really good uh use of especially combined light sources, and that's something that's really hard to do, like technically. I can think of a scene where Fool was going into the basement and he had there was like a window light in the back, there was an incandescent bulb above him, and he was also holding the lighter, and just seeing how well those three different light sources balanced and played off of each other was really good. There was also a scene where Alice was hanging on the wall, and I feel like that was lit really beautifully as well. Um, but I'm gonna have to give my favorite visual element to the woman because she was absolutely serving looks. She was a completely unhinged character in both her performance and her styling. I really appreciated that. And I feel like she was also the inspiration for Aunt Spiker from James and the Giant Peach. Do you remember her?

SPEAKER_03 45:22

No, I never actually watched that.

SPEAKER_05 45:23

I feel like they literally just did an even more exaggerated version of this woman and then gave her yellow teeth and put her in that movie. So she was really stunning visually.

SPEAKER_03 45:31

Yeah, I know. And that's what I meant in a group chat, and I was like, I really wanted to see your take on this because I knew that was gonna be one of them. Just because I was thinking the same thing too.

SPEAKER_05 45:38

She was very much giving you like Joan Crawford mommy dearest drag queen vibes.

SPEAKER_03 45:43

For sure. I thought she was gonna shake this kid to death. Yeah. I mean, she burned her practically in the bathtub, so No wire hangers. Burn in hell.

SPEAKER_05 45:53

I was waiting for her to say, I'm not mad at you, I'm mad at the dirt.

SPEAKER_03 45:58

I'm we shouldn't watch this over FaceTime. This would be a great movie to watch.

SPEAKER_04 46:03

So you guys bring up some great little visual elements, but I'm I I'm actually surprised nobody else picked mine, and mine is the opening sequence. I guess it is with the tarot cards and everything. I thought that was so interesting, and it was like a it it immediately set me up for like I don't know, a storyline that I wasn't prepared for. I wasn't expecting it at all. And it was very just interesting to like you know, see the different elements of the card, have it explained and stuff like that. That was something that stood out that I love.

SPEAKER_05 46:29

I love that you loved that.

SPEAKER_04 46:30

Yeah, because you know you I know you were expecting me to be like, what's this what's this stuff that doesn't make sense?

SPEAKER_05 46:36

Yeah. Visually, tarot is beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 46:38

I think what I more specifically loved was max sliding into the group chat saying that it was about Paris as a child.

SPEAKER_01 46:44

I could definitely see you reading tarot cards as a kid. Just it matches with you perfectly.

SPEAKER_05 46:49

I should have, but I I didn't dabble until college. But I appreciate that. I actually would have included that in my visuals as well, but I truly forgot about it because it was at the very beginning.

SPEAKER_02 46:59

You know what? As I as I'm thinking here about the lighting in this movie, I'm realizing how much I actually really enjoyed those flashlights in the basement. And I I just realized that it's also part of my favorite scene, and it's not for any serious reason. I know I've been like really serious about like themes and all this shit this entire episode, but Paris, Mac, Ryan, all about dead by daylight. It was when the man has fool in the basement and he's about to kill him, and then all of a sudden you had the flashlight saved. And all I could think in my head was, oh damn, I'm being picked up by the killer, and somebody just you know blinded the killer with a flashlight, and it was amazing. And and it brought me the most amount of laughter, which I guess I can't give this movie credit for, right? Because how can it how can it capitalize and and raise its stock value from a game that was invented 20 to 30 years later? I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 47:51

Hey, maybe Dead by Daylight was inspired by that flashlight save.

SPEAKER_04 47:55

Also, it's a podcast, you can do whatever you want. My favorite scene is maybe kind of a collection of a few different little scenes that we get, and it's where we kind of learn the backstory of Fool mostly and then his family and everything as well. I just like when we started this movie, I was like in it. I was I was prepared. I was like, man, this scene's great. I can't wait to get to know these characters. So, of course, you know, uh specifically like the one that stands out in my head is like, you know, he's in there listening to his sister talk to his mother and they're explaining, you know, talking about what's going wrong and what they have to do and all that. But uh, there's some other ways that like the setting is portrayed later where they're he's like walking through the building and you know it's very uh run down and everything. I don't love that, but I do love you know the way he you know is interacting with his mom. The basically those scenes, the set of scenes where we get to know that family, those I really, really enjoyed, and they made me real excited for this movie.

SPEAKER_01 48:50

I guess mine is related to family, but in a different way. It's it's the other family, but it's when we get Fool, Allison Chains, and uh Papa Roach all in one room, and uh Alice is kind of breaking down, you know, the whole system and who Roach is and what happened to him, and you know, it sticks his stub of a tongue out and all that. I don't know. I just like the kids kind of bonding uh in that moment before everything kind of breaks loose.

SPEAKER_03 49:18

Yeah, it was cute. I like that. Alice and James and Papa Roach. I loved as much as I thought it took away from the movie a little bit and was very Scooby-doo-ish in Home Alone, but where the tricks fool was playing on this guy, and he essentially is I know we'll talk about characters, but one of my favorite characters, and it's just cool that he has this mentality, he's like, I'm gonna get this sucker, you know what I mean? And he goes for the tricks, you know, he goes into these scenes, and I just love how he the one where he throws down the brick, you know, he's like, Oh, we have to go upstairs, and then like I mean, I thought that was interesting, and then the dynamics of him going down with her, and then them actually going past the chimney, which I don't know how chimneys work on two levels or or I don't think it's like that. I didn't think it was either. I was like, I'm pretty sure it ended where their head was, but I I just I was I just left that to the imagination. I let it go. I'm not sure how chimneys work, but yeah, I loved all the little tricks he was playing.

SPEAKER_05 50:18

I mean, my favorite scenes are obvious. It's really all the scenes that we get between the woman and Alice. Um initially, when you first meet her, I was like, what is their relationship? She's really rude to this child, which I always find super interesting when a parent is just like really mean to a kid and like no shame about it, but is doing it in a way that's like, I love you, and I mean because I care, but it's actually just like totally abusive and psychotic. Um, I always find that dynamic to be really interesting. And then the way their scenes developed where you it reminded me of a lot of like Carrie, because the mom is absolutely psychotic and abusive in that as well, and then just seeing it all culminate with their like fight scene in the kitchen. Um it it felt the most like classic horror to me. Like I would love a slasher where it's just the woman running around with a like a giant kitchen knife. That would be a full movie that I would watch. Um, and it all ended very beautifully with the daughter accidentally not actually stabbing her, but the woman stabbing herself. So it was that collection of scenes that I would watch as like a mini movie within this movie.

SPEAKER_02 51:19

Yeah, okay, okay. I I can see that. You know, I think we did get a movie with a woman running around with a weapon the whole time, but it was misery and you and you hated that. So that sucks.

SPEAKER_05 51:30

What weapon did she have?

SPEAKER_02 51:31

Such a good point. So many weapons. What weapons didn't she have?

SPEAKER_05 51:35

She was not scary. This woman was scary.

SPEAKER_02 51:37

She made her hospitality a weapon. She is the weapon.

SPEAKER_05 51:41

Her chunky boots were the weapon.

SPEAKER_02 51:43

Or the hammer and her snow hammer. The hobbling.

SPEAKER_05 51:45

Yeah, the hammer should be her weapon.

SPEAKER_02 51:47

Uh, okay. All right. You raised an interesting point about the woman as a character, and I'm not fond of her. But for me, I think some of the best characters in this were Fool and Alice. And Alice was a bit of a surprise because oh my gosh, the chops on this girl when she was that young. Yeah, I think she was 17 at the time of making this movie.

SPEAKER_05 52:10

What?

SPEAKER_02 52:10

Yeah, she was 17 playing a 12-year-old. But the moment where she's in where she's talking to Fool and she's explaining how she can get by, right? While she's not downstairs, and she's just like having to admit to not saying anything and like the strict obedience and the tears that form in her eyes. I don't know that I've ever like seen a child actor in a horror movie outside of like Danielle Harris that I really, really, really enjoyed. But that moment felt so real, and my heart broke for her then.

SPEAKER_03 52:41

Yeah, I really thought, you know, one of the decent parts of this movie was the actors, especially Alice and Fool. And you know what it's crazy to me that both of them, I mean, she had she has some expression, has a lot of it, especially in the scene you're talking about, Chris. But Fool does too. He's like he's like filled with expression, and it's so crazy to understand that these are child actors. I mean, 17 or not, still young, and probably and obviously for Fool, you know, the actor who plays him has been in a ton of 90s stuff. Um, you did not mention the stand lot. I am so surprised. Yeah, that's where I know I'm from. Yeah, same, same. I'm like, whoa, Mac didn't mention that.

SPEAKER_01 53:22

I mean, I saw the sandlot like 50 times, but he's a winter boy, he prefers hockey. I know, but I loved Mighty Ducks though. I would I would go up my rollerblades and play like you know street hockey after watching that, the Mighty Ducks. Just saying just saying.

SPEAKER_03 53:35

Yeah, it was just it's it's hard to believe that like a child could or you know, a young adult could have that that much sway on how I feel about a movie, and that I'm like, oh wow, I'm like learning to love these two, and I'm and it's making me despise, you know, the man and woman. And there's such yeah, there's such this like disconnect between the two or connect, but um, but there's on two opposite ends.

SPEAKER_02 53:59

Yeah, I think what I love about that even more is this idea of like look at the conditions in which fool lives and look at how many people turn a blind eye to that, and how many people like these people are literally sitting like Scrooge McDuck with wealth in their basement, in their cellar, and they're taking advantage of people's poverty, right? They're charging absurd prices, they're raising their prices, making them pay triple if they're three days late, and then they own the liquor store, right? So, like if anyone's self-soothing or falls into any addictive patterns, they're also benefiting off of that as well. And you think about how many people turn a blind eye to these conditions, and then you know, fool has it all at the end. He has the money for the mom surgery, the rent's gonna be paid, but he still goes back to save her because he can't turn a blind eye the way society has turned a blind eye on him. And I absolutely fucking love that for his character and the journey that he went on.

SPEAKER_05 54:53

That's just like Matilda. She went back in that house.

SPEAKER_04 54:56

Yeah. So just to leave the joy that is these child actors in this movie, and turn to the wretched characters that are the the man and woman and or mommy and daddy, depending on how you get down. So cringy. So cringy, yes. Especially because they're brother and sister, but either way.

SPEAKER_05 55:16

And they were fully fucking.

SPEAKER_04 55:17

Yeah, I don't even know if that's the case, though. I'm not like I'm not even really concerned with that part of it, but there's like some things. There's a very specific thing in this movie that once it fully occurred to me, really turned me off. Obviously, the way they treated everyone from the moment we met them was disgusting. But the thing that really, really got me, and this is kind of like something I was uh uncertain about because it's only like hinted at, I did not like the hint that the man was raping Alice. And it wasn't flat out stated. But then there were two moments, and Paris, I can see that your face is very questionable here.

SPEAKER_05 55:54

I did not pick up on that.

SPEAKER_04 55:55

So let me tell you the the two moments, and I wasn't sure. Um, because they don't they don't just say it, but the first one is when he's taking his belt off to punish her in the room and she's like, don't leave any bruises. It seems like he's gonna beat her. But then later, when she's up in the attic with the chains and she's hanging on the wall, he is grabbing his crotch as he walks up there.

SPEAKER_03 56:18

That was the worst. And I was like, did he just grab his crotch?

SPEAKER_04 56:21

Yeah. What the heck? That was disgusting. So it wasn't flat out, but I think we're kind of all on the same page.

SPEAKER_05 56:27

The diddling subtext was there.

SPEAKER_04 56:28

There was diddling subtext, yes, things we don't like.

SPEAKER_05 56:31

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_04 56:32

On top of that, there's another thing that I really, really hate, and it is keep my pure white child away from your black son. It is my least favorite narrative in the world, and it's so strong in this movie. Every single second of this chasing around the house, finding fool in the house, it's oh my God, he's gotten to her. I know he's gotten to her. And it's like, cool, you're raping her. I don't think you gotta worry about fool. I think he's good. Like, that's a thing. It just rubs me the wrong way. There's almost nothing that you can do in a movie that you're gonna do that and I'm gonna be excited about it. And then also I just don't, I just don't like representing these two horrific people as like, oh, we're just like fun, horrible people, and like, you know, we're we're making jokes, and like I'm just running around in a BDSM outfit and you know what the fuck was that? I don't even know what that was. I don't think there's a full explanation.

SPEAKER_02 57:25

They're hidden perversions.

SPEAKER_04 57:26

Yeah, they're just creeps.

SPEAKER_02 57:28

Look at their addiction to guns. Look at all the chains that he was hiding, right? As soon as like when the cops were around. So it's this idea of putting on the like white picket fence front. People are into what they're into, right? But clearly these folks are just unhinged in any direction that they go in. It's it's more about that, right? It's about how wild these people are, despite the front that they put on. And I don't think it's something you're ever supposed to enjoy, right? Like West Craven is showing them for being maniacs, and it's not something that you're supposed to be like, oh wow, look at how fun loving they are.

SPEAKER_04 58:04

They're not just like maniacs. They're like, they're like, I don't know. There's this showing of them that's just like, oh, we're just like, this is our weird things that we do. I don't know. And maybe it's just, you know, how I perceived it. I didn't just perceive it as these are maniacal people. It was like, we're crazy and fun. Come, you know. I mean, obviously they weren't inviting people to their house, but it was just like, yeah, we just have kids downstairs, and I don't know. I don't know. I just got the wrong taste in my mouth from this couple, and it turned me off from everything. I got nothing fun from them.

SPEAKER_05 58:34

I think it was because of their over-the-top acting.

SPEAKER_04 58:37

Yeah. There was like a fun tone to the movie.

SPEAKER_05 58:39

They they didn't play it like sinister and dark that would match with like the actions and the words of the characters. They played it in like a over-the-top, like old theater kind of way that kind of gave it a light comic, almost comedic vibe that didn't feel right.

SPEAKER_04 58:54

Like a parody of themselves almost. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 58:57

Yeah. They were caricatures.

SPEAKER_01 58:59

But it was also to show the fact that they enjoyed the depraved things that they were doing. And it it wasn't like, look, they're normal and having fun, but they also do these things. It's like these people are truly sick to the point where they they're doing these horrible things and they're loving it. They're just enjoying every moment of torturing other human beings. It I mean, I think it was really to show that this type of person, at least, um, not only does the things that they do, but like soaks it up and and enjoys enjoys creating multiple tiers of humanity and destroying everyone but that they think is beneath them.

SPEAKER_02 59:36

Yeah. One of the things that I that I read is that Wes Craven considers like how everyone receives this movie and they receive it in like on a vast spectrum of like what his intentions were. He said the closest anyone has ever gotten was a there was a political cartoon when Bush Sr. was up for re-election and he's walking up some stairs, and it's like there's like a sign that says the people under the stairs, and it's like they're all reaching for him. And he lost that election because more there's more turnout in voting. So then you think about like how that reflects in modern day, right? Like, obviously, we've had things going on where there's been attempts at voter suppression. There is voter suppression, you know. Stacey Abrams with everything that she did in Georgia to be able to get folks to turn out for the vote and get them registered to vote. That's more aligned with what this is. It's looking at like, look at the depravity, look at how crazy these people are. There's nothing to enjoy about this, but really they're here to hold people down. And you absolutely shouldn't enjoy the keep my pure white daughter away from your black son. You shouldn't enjoy any of that. But I think that's the point that he's trying to make. Like, look at how horrific this is. This child is innocent, this child has a good heart, and look how he's being treated in this home. The movie's not there to should to teach people who already know, right? It's to teach people who don't.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:56

Of course. I think I I am on board with the intentions, uh, what I think they are. I think it just like slightly missed the mark for me. And that's kind of something you mentioned earlier. Like it seems like someone outside of these circumstances trying to speak to it, and it's just not the it's it's just not it's just not quite there for me.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:16

Yeah, I mean when you when you look at the characters in the film, you have to consider that this house is basically like everyone in America is inside of inside of this house. And so you have the rich elites who are like abusing religion to control the poor whites, but to teach them that everyone else is still beneath them. So Alice, for instance, in this case, would be you know, basically all the other white people in America who aren't the sick and twisted rich elites who are having religion used as a tool against them to make them subservient, but also no no no, you're still better than those people out there, those separate people from us, right? And like the rich elites here. The the saddest thing about like watching this movie is like they're not even like rich rich.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:03

Yeah, they're just like neighborhoodly rich, richer than you, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:07

But they're supposed to be like the lord and lady, you know, in if you were to go back into a medieval era, but they're they're like motives though, that's who they are in America. They're the rich elites who are like literally doing the things that they're doing in this film, you know, controlling land, controlling commerce, and enforcing their own viewpoints on this simply for the the the wealth and greed and control. That's all they want out of it is control. And in reality, you know, you have Fool and you have Alice, and they're trying to like keep her apart for as long as they can because they want to teach her that she's better and that she's separate. And and the reality the whole time is that like they're both just kids, and they're both equals, and they're both equally as valuable, but they've been using this like sick mentality to teach her that they're not. And here he is showing her for a fact that he's just a normal kid and that he's an equal human being.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:03

Yeah. And when you look at it, it's not just the community that can defeat them, it's not just the people under the stairs that can defeat them, it's when they all work together to overthrow the rich.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:13

I have a question that I think kind of this is one of the things that like didn't really make sense in the story for me. They spend all this time talking about their control and their uh ownership over like poor neighborhoods and stuff like that. And then it's very specifically like it is very drawn as like black and white. So literally they're talking about black neighborhoods and obviously their white family. But then what I didn't understand is where did all the kids they were like, oh, they stole them from the neighborhoods, all the kids under the stairs. But they were all white kids, and so it kind of it was like a disconnect for me there.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:46

They're also racist. So they're they're stealing kids from poorer communities, and they're still the the the main characters that we focus on are black, but there were white people in the building that live right fools' building. So it's really just they were stealing kids from lower income families, right? Just because they could, because they could get away with it, but they weren't gonna steal anyone black because they're also fucking racist. And they wanted to have the perfect son for the perfect daughter. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:15

Ew, and then they were gonna make them fuck because incest.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:18

Technically not.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:19

Well, I guess that's not actually incest if they're kidnapped from different families, but still. Yeah. Because they can't have kids because they're products of incest and they're sterile.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:27

I mean, it's an assumption.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:28

See, I kind of thought that the people under the stairs, at least some of them, were maybe products of the incest that didn't quite, you know, develop.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:37

I think they're presented that way because their entire lives they've lived in darkness and eating human flesh. It's they're like they're warped by the treatment that they've received. For sure.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:48

Well, this has been a fun review.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:51

But no, it is it is really like a history of America. Like what's you know, what's going on. I mean, it's a very obvious one. Like it's not like, oh my gosh, like I didn't see this before, but there were probably people who watched this movie and who like got this and were like, maybe I should change my viewpoints in life. And there were probably others who were like, Man, those monsters were crazy. You know, so it's it just depends, I think, on who was watching it at the time. But it is showing us how over the course of our country, like the rich elites have told poor white people that they can be like them because they're better than everyone else, while subjugating them the entire time, um, as equally as they you know control everyone else. But they've gotten this mentality of them using religion, um, which is the craziest part of it, uh, to teach them this kind of thing. It's it's absolute insanity.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:39

I actually didn't really pick up on that specific framing. Um I got the I got the vibes and the themes, but that that context of it being allegorical within the house and within the characters inside the house as like its own microcosm. Um and I actually like it a little bit more now, Mac.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:53

Thank you. I'm glad I'm glad to hear that. I think if you if you go back and you don't I don't know, you don't have to rewatch it for this, but if you go back And just like think through. I know you won't. Just like think through like all the characters in the house and how they act towards each other, and just like you know, frame it in like our modern conception of of what our country has become and what it what it actually has been the whole time that people just didn't realize or people didn't want to admit to. Um and it it's kind of all there. I mean, again, it's it's kind of it's kind of 3D, it's kind of a little 2D in some spots, but it works.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:24

All that to say, Ryan, the silliness of the man and woman was for sure for me the worst part of this movie. So I don't disagree with you. Good. It should be.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:32

It was horrific. So, best part for me obviously was the comedy from Fool that was the one-liner about Spencer, where he said he thought he was white before, you should check him out now. And this movie is filled with his little one-liners, and you know, he's just like this spunky kid, and I love it.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:49

Shout out to our patron Spencer, who definitely watched this movie the other night.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:53

Awesome.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:54

I have to agree that Fool is the best part of this movie, and specifically I like the way that he interacts with Leroy, because Leroy is, you know, kind of a good guy in this movie, but also kind of maybe leading this kid down a path he's really shouldn't be going down. And he definitely says some questionable things like that someone who's not related to a kid would say, like, you know, at some point he's you know, talking about pussy to the kid, you know, like it's just not necessarily appropriate. But Fool stands up for himself and you know, he's got some comebacks, and he doesn't let this old dude, you know, just just run over him and make him do anything. He's got things to say, he's got stuff to contribute, and that was absolutely again at the best part of this movie at the beginning, everything felt good. Fool was the best part of it.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:38

Yeah, they did have a fun dynamic, and Fool wasn't taking any of that shit. I love that line though, because Vin Rames is like, in response to somebody saying, like, maybe something crazy would happen, he was like, Maybe the president is gonna make me secretary of pussy. And that actually made me laugh out loud.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:51

Yeah, I was like, Whoa, okay, this is not a kid's movie.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:55

Yeah, definitely like that uncle that doesn't have kids.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:57

Definitely. Also, the position doesn't exist, and what would that position even be? Okay, what would that be? You call in people? What is it? Confirming appointments?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:07

It's easy. That's it. The word the thing that it uh involves is described in the title. That's it.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:12

Or legalizing sex work everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:15

Oh, there you go.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:16

Oh, wow, so strong.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:17

A couple other moments that like really stuck out for me, and I'm sure they weren't supposed to. Um, when the woman throws Alice down the stairs and she slips in that huge pile of blood and is expected to clean it up, even though it's like bigger than her body. That was very funny to me. Also, the scene where Alice drops in through the ceiling and slams the mom's head into the floor, that was like very unexpected and so fast that I laughed very hard. She like dropped in like a little like bullet ninja and then just bam.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:45

Yeah, I was like, where did you come from? Why did you land so well?

SPEAKER_05 1:08:48

And why did you just like come through the ceiling?

SPEAKER_04 1:08:51

And why didn't you make sure she stayed on the ground? Why do they always leave?

SPEAKER_02 1:08:55

The whole movies, her traversing the walls and the ceilings.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:59

I can honestly say my worst part of this movie was Prince. Um, Prince the dog, super cool dog, but the treatment of Prince was not good, obviously. But the way in which he goes out, I don't know. I just it it was sad. Even even though he was, you know, eating people up and stuff, like he's still a pup. And I was, you know, I would if I would if I could do it my own, I would have him somehow find a way out of the house. He turns back and then just says like nope, and then just runs away. That would be my preferred way to get rid of Prince is they find some some you know secret hole and they let him out and he runs.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:33

Prince won my heart when he walked into the room and saw only fool and was like, Oh man, you're not that bad, you're good. Yeah what I mean. Like it wasn't till Leroy showed up that he was like, Oh shit.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:41

Yeah, I wish they would have had another moment like that, and then everything would have been okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:45

I wish it would have ended their little fight with him just petting Prince and Prince being okay with him. And then him like not becoming, you know, this tool anymore uh for man and woman. He's like, nah, I'm good. I'm not gonna eat him.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:57

Yeah, that would be nice. And you know, I know that I talked about the the silliness of the man and woman being the worst part, and I think that really has it that really leans more into the comedy of it. So when I think about like re-watching this movie again, I absolutely 100% would, but it also makes me even more excited for Jordan Peel to take a crack at it because of his approach to humor and the doses with which he uses humor in his work. I'm really excited for it. I think I'm gonna save watching this until right before that one comes out.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:29

Yeah, I agree. That would probably be the only instance I'd watch this ever again, though. Yep. You know I'm not watching this again.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:35

I will probably watch this again in another 15-20 years with my kids.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:39

With your kids?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:40

Yeah, 15-20 years. They could be they could be 17. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:43

Oh, they will probably be 15 to 20. Yeah, exactly. Considering you're getting married next month.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:48

This would be an appropriate film for them to watch at that age.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:51

I definitely will not be watching this movie again. It was just like a cat and mouse that I did not care about while I was watching it, and I don't care to do it again. Um, but I do want to point out the the specific scene that made me realize that I have in some form seen this before, and it's when you see the coins that are like stuck inside the candle and therefore like dropping sporadically. I don't know if that's ever been in another movie before, but when I saw that I was like, I have seen this before. Because that was such like a specific, striking visual and a really good idea.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:22

I was I thought you were gonna say that you've tried it before.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:25

For what?

SPEAKER_04 1:11:26

I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:27

Calming the applications set up an elaborate room.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:31

I mean, you're a very elaborate person.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:33

I wouldn't be surprised.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:34

That's a candle level I'm not at yet.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:36

For as elaborate as this movie was, let's see if there's any more elaborate details that can be pulled out in Max fact or fiction.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:43

Let's jump right in. So, while AJ Langer played Alice at nearly 17 years old, Sean Whelan played Roach at age 26.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:51

Hmm. I don't I don't know how old he was, but I could believe that. Um, so I'm gonna say fact. Yeah, I'm actually going fact too.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:59

I want to say fact because he looked old as shit, but I feel like maybe he was like actually younger than Alice, and that's the gag. So I'll say fiction. There's no gag.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:08

This one's a fact. Okay. Um this was also both of their film debuts, so that's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:12

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:13

Yeah, but I mean his character was like 15 or something, and he's 26 years old. So come on.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:17

He had a young face.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:18

He did have a young face.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:19

All movies are weird when it comes to how old the actors are.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:22

I know. It's made fun of. I'm still shocked that she was 17. I've seen you know, some films where they'll like change the hair of an actress and they're like, She's not 30, she's 12, and you're just like, come on. It's a middle part.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:35

Brazil from Greece, I see you.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:38

Panicki from Greece. Alright, let's uh let's move on. The star of Million Dollar Baby Herself, Hillary Swank, auditioned for a role in this movie.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:47

Fiction, because I have no idea. I don't know how this movie was marketed, so, or how popular it was when it first came out. So I'm gonna say it's Wes Craven. Yeah, but oh yeah, you're right. Uh I'm just gonna say no. Fiction.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:05

I'm gonna say fact. She probably could have played Alice. Ooh, good pick. Um, this one's a fact, but she auditioned to play Roach. What a different world we would live in if that happened.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:14

But then she went on to do that in Boys Don't Cry.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:17

Boys Don't Cry was a dramatic movie that haunts me to this day. However, the character of Roach was didn't was wasn't written with a particular gender in mind.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:25

Oh, nice. We love to see it. Next up, although Craven asked for an initial budget of 10 million, production costs reached 13 million before filming wrapped.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:33

Oh, feels like a fact. This house feels complicated. Yes, it really does. It that was a lot of labor into that. So saying fact.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:40

Yeah, fact. There was a lot of over-the-top unnecessary extra bells and whistles added on here.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:46

Like the leather outfit. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:47

Yeah. I mean very, very expensive leather outfit. You notice it's actually in the credits, the company that makes the leather outfit.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:54

Oh no, that's funny.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:55

Yeah, I thought it was strange they had to mention that. But uh no, this one's a fiction. It was a six million dollar movie, minimal studio interference and everything. Very frugal. The film earned that money back in the first weekend.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:08

Whoa, it's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:09

Talking about the popularity of Wes Craven. And last stop, Spencer gripped that beautiful golden coin with his cold dead hands. That rare coin today would be worth $27,000.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:19

A gold coin? No, I don't think gold is that important anymore. But it might be. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:25

Like have you checked the price of gold recently?

SPEAKER_03 1:14:27

Actually, no. Gold's still very important.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:29

However, one gold coin, I want to say fiction. Fiction.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:33

I feel like that was some random ass coin and not a real actual coin you could track down. So fiction.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:38

This one is a fiction. So it's the American gold eagle coin. And back then it was worth about $708. So nearly $1,400 today adjusting for inflation, but that doesn't account for change of rarity of the coin or anything like that. So it's an ounce of gold, 22 karat gold, and that's about $1,700 right now. So that's uh it's a pricey coin, but it's not $27,000. I bet the prop coin from this movie is worth more. Simply because it was in the movie. That's fact or fiction.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:07

Well, delightful. Didn't realize you were so boned up on gold, but good to know for the future.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:13

Boned up? Hey, when you're buying wedding bands, you gotta check out the prize of gold.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:17

I bet. I bet. Let's revisit that thought next year when we do another leprechaun movie. But for now, there you have it, folks. The People Under the Stairs from 1991, a West Craven classic, didn't fare too well, earned three hacks and two slashes. Now we've had a lot to talk about here. There's a lot of themes to dig into this movie, and we didn't even really scratch the surface, right? There's so much more here. So please, if we want to know what you think, we want to know what your connection is to the movie, don't hesitate to reach out. Now there are a number of ways that you can reach out, starting with our website, hackerslash.com, and on our social media accounts on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:52

And if you have people living under your stairs, you can reach out to our Hackerslash Hotline. You can leave us a voicemail at 757-606-0128, or visit hackerslash.com slash contact to send us an audio message.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:03

Or if you've been living under the stairs and you're not a wizard, you can send us an email to feedback at hackerslash.com.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:10

If you've enjoyed listening to this episode, consider becoming one of our patrons. You can visit patreon.com slash hacker slash to earn cool perks for as low as one dollar a month.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:18

We'll see you next time, folks, and remember sometimes in is out.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:22

That's what she said.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:24

Bye.