SPEAKER_01 0:04

Spooky, scary skeletons and shivers down your spine. Greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hack or Slash. If you're joining us again, hi! Welcome to the Snake Pit. If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack, a total joke, a waste of time, or a slash.

SPEAKER_02 0:28

Totally killer pun intended.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, we're rating these movies with the perspective we all gain from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slash enthusiast. This week I'm joined by the gore lover Alexis. Hey everyone. The cowardly creeper Ryan. Hiya. And the Scream Queen Paris.

SPEAKER_03 0:50

Hey sweets.

SPEAKER_01 0:51

The people who've spoken this week and our patrons have actually decided which movie we're covering for this episode. Before we get down to giving up the goods, though, we have some follow-up.

SPEAKER_03 1:00

So for our follow-up this week, um, as a result of some scheduling moments that are happening as a result of Mac's impending wedding, we are actually still tallying the poll results from our most recent episode. So instead, we're gonna listen to a lovely call from one of our patrons, David, from our friends over at Nova Cascade. Roll the tape.

SPEAKER_06 1:18

Well, hello you lovely people. This is uh Dave here from Nova Cascade, and I finally got around to sending you a voice message after all this time. I just wanted to thank you for um helping to keep me sane during the pandemic. Um your episodes have been a constant background to my uh composing or perhaps that's decomposing. But anyway, yeah, you've uh yeah you've kept me in mentally in pretty good shape. So um this is me sending you best wishes from myself and the others involved in Never Cascade, and uh I look forward to uh perhaps making an appearance on the show at some point. But for now, this is me signing off and sending you my best.

SPEAKER_03 1:59

I love that call so much, Dave. Thank you for sharing your experience with us. It's actually kind of shocking to hear that like we helped somebody get through a miserable year of a pandemic in some small way. So I really appreciate hearing that myself.

SPEAKER_02 2:13

Well, I'm here to tell you you guys did help me get through a miserable pandemic for sure. Yeah, I love the sweet words.

SPEAKER_05 2:20

Thank you so much. Also, there's something about a British person saying they've been composing. Is he the most elegant person ever? You know, like it takes nothing. When you have that accent, it takes nothing to make you sound like you do important things for a living. Like, oh, you're in the background of me composing. Like, oh, I've never composed. I'm not composed. It's really cool.

SPEAKER_03 2:38

And if you would like to call and leave us a message at the hackerslash hotline, feel free to do so. We look forward to hearing from you soon, and that is our follow-up.

SPEAKER_01 2:46

This week's film was nominated by one of our patrons, and in a week-long poll pitted against three other nominations, it managed to win with 47% of the vote. When last we visited this franchise in episode 99, we saw a sequel in which an iconic slasher villain was tormenting a teenage boy who had moved into one particular house on Elm Street. As mentioned in that episode, the film was ultimately received poorly in the US and considered to be inferior to the first film. So inferior, in fact, that it caused New Line Cinema to doubt whether they'd even want to continue the series. While Wes Craven wasn't involved in the sequel, he did make his return to the franchise by co-writing a third entry intended to end the franchise. Instead, this film's success breathed new life into the series and provided the spark needed to continue on. This week, we're talking about the 1987 film, A Nightmare on Elm Street 3, Dream Warriors. Now, there was a lot of excitement for this film, so before we dive into our review, we'd love to share why this film was nominated by our longtime listener and loyal patron Zach.

SPEAKER_05 3:47

Zack shared a really cool story with us about his early connections to horror and explained that Nightmare on Elm Street was one of the first franchises that caught his eye when he was finally allowed to rent or buy horror films, which I thought was interesting because I don't remember what my first one was. So here's Zack's explanation of why he picked this. He says, Christmas Day had finally came and I opened my gifts and then I unwrapped it. Not just the first film, but the whole Nightmare on Elm Street collector's edition box set. That night I sat and watched them all, but one stuck out to me the most, and that was Dream Warriors. He says that he loved the original and praised it, but Dream Warriors had broken the barrier for the lore that was built by Wes Craven. It was a film that perfectly balanced the past and origins of what it came from and truly let the audience embrace the new generation with characters that weren't just generic and were people that you truly did root for. That's what he saw in the film.

SPEAKER_01 4:34

I love a nice little origin story from our listeners and hearing exactly why these movies have such deep emotional roots, but we know Zach's connection. How about you all? Who's seen this one before?

SPEAKER_05 4:45

Well, as you know, Freddy is the man of my dreams. However, I like to keep it fresh here on Hackerslash. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_04 4:54

Wow.

SPEAKER_05 4:55

And uh I have not seen this movie. I'm just kind of watching them as we go, as we work through the franchise, and it's been really, really fun. So uh I had no connection and hadn't seen this movie before.

SPEAKER_02 5:05

Interesting because I haven't seen this yet. I knew what it was about. I think it's a popular movie in the franchise. So I just remember like Taryn in this and Patricia Arquette. So like those are the two people I remembered, but somehow I never saw this, but I knew about that. So maybe I had. I don't know. Maybe it was just all a dream.

SPEAKER_03 5:26

I had to watch the original Nightmare on Elm Street and the sequel for this podcast. Um, I did not like them. I gave them both hacks. So I had not seen this one, obviously. I think I just kind of like Freddy in theory. Um, I don't know that I've gotten to a place where I like him in practice.

SPEAKER_05 5:43

Let's hope that you get to that place today. My hopes are low.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

So, Ryan, actually, what you shared really resonated with me in terms of just your approach. You know, you love Freddie and you've been able to just watch and experience this franchise as we go on the podcast. And this is a movie that I've seen a few times, and I'm gonna be totally honest. This franchise is one where the events tend to run together a bit for me. It's all a little bit of a blur in the middle of the franchise. So in my mind, I have like a clear vision and fondness for the first one. The sequel is very, very different, so that stands out. And then I think of Wes Craven's New Nightmare, which I absolutely love, and was the last one to come before Freddy vs. Jason. This one's the third film. I saw the fourth and fifth before I saw this one. And there's some continuity there in the story and characters. So the three of them have really blended together over the years. Now, given that, I was really looking forward to sitting down, just experiencing this again with a fresh watch. I haven't watched a nightmare on El Street movie since the sequel last year, but what were you folks expecting?

SPEAKER_02 6:46

You know, I wasn't honestly sure what to expect. Um, especially after the second one, there was it was just so weird going from the first one. I was like, okay, maybe this is gonna be a continuation, and it really wasn't. So I didn't think that this would be a continuation of the first or a second one per se, but I definitely was like, Freddy's gonna be in it, and he's gonna be slicing and dicing in some dreams for sure.

SPEAKER_03 7:11

I remember when we were talking about the second one, somebody mentioned that the title for the third one was Nightmare on Elm Street 3 Dream Warriors, and I remember thinking that was like a notable title because, like, what the fuck does that even mean? Dream Warriors. Um, so I had no idea what to expect going into this. I was like, are they gonna totally like switch it up, go like against the normal format that we're used to with Freddie? But it's also like the third installment in an 80s franchise, and I didn't like the third Halloween, and I didn't like the third Friday the 13th, so I was like, the bar's pretty low going into this. And then I saw Zajakabor's name in the opening credits, and I was like, wait, what? And that kind of got me excited.

SPEAKER_05 7:48

Intriguing. So for me, I'm super excited, of course, anytime I see a nightmare on Elm Street on our schedule, like, what else is there to live for, really? You know? But I knew that this was one that was a favorite, and Chris had mentioned to me that I should expect good things, basically. And of course, I go in to this one hoping that it doesn't have some of the things that I hated from the second one, like some of Freddy's backstory stuff that got kind of creepy and weird. That was the main thing where I was like, please, let's go away from that, come back to where Freddy's meant to be, which is just a creepy killer, not a you know, pedophile. That's that's what we really wanted in life. So that was my basis of going into this one, just hoping for the best, hoping we get like classic Freddie just out here to slice some heads, you know?

SPEAKER_01 8:32

Okay, so it sounds like we have a general optimism, uh, but Paris keeping it pretty realistic in terms of the track record for 80s horror for him. When looking at this movie, I actually did have a couple pain points here and there, partially with some of the visual effects and partially with a couple characters that I found to be a bit of a mixed bag. Despite that though, I was actually entertained for most of this movie and really wrapped up in how different of an approach this has to Freddy and his lore. So, like in some ways, this Freddy felt very playful, but in a lot of ways, I felt like the dreams in this one were way more dark and vicious. And this is a movie, right, that handles a little bit of what we saw in the first film, where there's uh an element of like, you know, teen suicide and self-harm. And that element was pretty dark in this film, and in the script, in the original script, it was actually intended to be a situation where all these kids gather and they commit suicide in one location, and Freddy was pulling the strings behind it, but it wasn't as apparent as it is in this film. And that's actually something that caused a lot of deviation and change to the script, but despite the departure from that darkness, I still felt like, you know, the way Freddy pulls the strings in this feels so different from the first two films.

SPEAKER_02 9:48

Yeah, this is kind of a Freddie that I appreciate. Um and I kind of I like the darkness. It was definitely different completely different for me viewing the second one and then this one. Oddly enough, I had to watch this movie four times.

SPEAKER_03 10:02

Why? Did you fall asleep?

SPEAKER_02 10:04

Yeah, I think it was the uh hypnotism that was going I got you. Yeah, four well, three times, yes.

SPEAKER_03 10:12

I almost fell asleep during that scene too.

SPEAKER_02 10:15

I don't know why. Around the hour mark, it just felt like really long to me. But I was entertained like throughout the movie. It was just like that little, there's like some sort of like point where I was just like a little bit bored, kind of.

SPEAKER_05 10:26

I would like to know there's uh there's an argument here to say that the movie is uh losing at what it's trying to do if you're cool enough to fall asleep during it, right? Like the whole point here is to make you afraid of sleep.

SPEAKER_02 10:38

Oh, yeah, there you go. Never mind. Well, I guess it didn't really work because Alexis is over here knocked out. Were you really entertained if you fell asleep? I think I'm just exhausted with life, but it has nothing to do with this movie. Or Freddie has a grip on you. I think Freddie's like, you know what? You don't need to watch the rest of this movie. I will come in your nightmare later.

SPEAKER_05 10:56

For me, watching this, I feel kind of some of the same things as you, Chris. Like I was entertained and also surprised by how dark this Freddie does feel in certain moments. But I will say I don't think I didn't feel like the kind of self-harm stuff was the darkest part of it. It was almost just like the way Freddie was acting. He still had his like funniness about him, but he wasn't as like goofy in a way. He wasn't just like terrorizing to terrorize. He was a man with a plan, and literally his plan this time was death and death only. It was not about injuries, it wasn't like I'm gonna, you know, just cut you a little with my hand. Like Freddie was out to get some people this time, and I felt threatened by that personally, but also so entertained all the way through this movie. Did you feel personally attacked? I felt personally attacked, but fortunately I was awake, so I was safe.

SPEAKER_03 11:46

I feel like I'm more in line with Alexis on this one. Um, I was mostly entertained, um, but there's definitely like a bloated chunk of the middle that really dragged on for me, which I was surprised by because up to that point it was pretty consistent with like the the moving the story along and then getting some kills in and then some cool effects, but then there's like two or three scenes that really nothing happens, and like maybe it's necessary for the backstory, but I don't think I needed it. Um so I kind of had like a roller coaster of emotions watching this, interchanging between boredom and entertainment.

SPEAKER_01 12:19

What a mix. Is that like the new sweet and savory?

SPEAKER_03 12:22

Uh I wouldn't recommend it.

SPEAKER_01 12:23

Like a salted caramel with too much salt.

SPEAKER_03 12:26

Like salty and sour.

SPEAKER_01 12:27

Just sounds gross all around. A little bit ago I mentioned that I have a a couple small pain points, and I just want to be very clear that there isn't much I was disappointed by in this movie. And there is one thing that really just sticks out a bit, and it it's the smallest it's the smallest of criticisms. It actually kinda hurts to say it, but I was disappointed in Heather Lingenkamp's performance, and now it wasn't bad, and there were a lot of bright spots in some moments she had, but ultimately I just felt underwhelmed by her. And and here's why. Earlier I mentioned I saw Wes Craven's A New Nightmare, and I saw that movie before I ever saw this movie, and that's like a very meta approach, and her performance in it I think is stellar, she's super dynamic, she has to like talk to a young child throughout most of the film, and she uses like a softer voice. It's very obvious when she's just speaking as a regular person, and then when she's speaking to a child, and in this movie, she sounds like she's speaking to a child a hundred percent of the time. She sounds just like young Nancy when this should have been six years later, and I think that's just like the one small bit that rubbed me the wrong way.

SPEAKER_03 13:32

Yeah, did they put that gray streak in her hair to let us know that she was older? Because I have chains.

SPEAKER_05 13:37

That was from that was from the first film.

SPEAKER_03 13:39

She just has that?

SPEAKER_05 13:40

Yes, and it is amazing. Okay, back off.

SPEAKER_03 13:43

I didn't remember that. But I also didn't remember her being like that great at acting in the first one. Um, but I felt like this time around I was like, oh, she's not as flat as I remember. So I I feel like she did a little bit better than the original at least, but I haven't seen a new nightmare.

SPEAKER_05 13:55

Literal growth.

SPEAKER_02 13:56

Yeah, I recall her being one of my favorite characters from the uh first one. And it I I understand where you're coming from, Chris. It was kind of like I thought all the I mean, we'll talk about it more with the characters, but yeah, she felt like it wasn't my Nancy. It really wasn't, if I have a Nancy, uh but it wasn't mine.

SPEAKER_01 14:17

Yeah. I mean, she's older, right? And I like the way Nancy is written to be. There's just something that was missing, I think, from this performance that didn't click between Heather Langenkamp, who is Nancy, and older Nancy. I felt like 17-year-old Nancy trying to pretend that she's an adult now instead of Nancy who's gone through growth and all this trauma. And the character is written perfectly. I just feel like that it didn't nail, it didn't stick the landing on the uh performance.

SPEAKER_02 14:43

Yeah, definitely. But I honestly that would surprise me the most is when she walked in because I wasn't expecting there to be such an apparent connection from the first one. So I was like, ooh, like kind of giddy about it. Um, also the backstory that they kind of weaved in uh was surprising to me as well, because I wasn't expecting any sort of ties from the first one.

SPEAKER_05 15:04

Yeah, I kind of agree. The backstory, uh the way it's played in this movie is what was really surprising to me. And for me, it's actually kind of similar to what our patron Zach was saying, which is like, I feel like this movie has a completely different approach to talking about the past for Freddy. Whereas sometimes I've well, not sometimes, two times in Nightmare on the Street 1 and 2, I feel like they spend this huge chunk of time talking about his past. And it like, I don't know, it has a way of like taking me out of the movie. Where here it felt like, hey, you know this guy. We don't really we don't need to re-explain this, but we're gonna touch it just for a second. There's a little bit of an element there, but it's not like a focus of this movie. And I I was surprised in a good way by that. Some sometimes I just don't want you to tell me about Freddie again. Like, I know Freddie, especially because they did it so wrong in the second one. Like, I was afraid for them to talk about Freddie's past.

SPEAKER_03 15:56

Yeah, I was also really surprised when Nancy came in. Um, also, I was surprised with how gorgeous she looked and how great her hair was. Um, I was like, is that the girl from the original? It has to be. And they're like, Nancy. And I was like, Oh yeah, that sounds right. But I was again surprised by a lot of the people that were in this movie in general. Like Lawrence Fishburne was in this looking absolutely mint, and I had not expected that going in. You know, without too many spoilers, there are some characters brought back from the original, which were actually a disappointment for me. Um I wasn't a huge fan of that choice that was made. But overall, I was mostly pleasantly surprised with specifically the gore and how well a lot of the practical effects were done, because I feel like, yeah, we got that in the last movies, but we didn't get as much quantity as we did this time around. And there was no shortage of like quantity and quality for the most part.

SPEAKER_01 16:43

There certainly isn't a shortage, and I think part of what this franchise is famous for is its approach to practical effects. I'm just thinking about like elongated arms Freddy from the first film. But that's some of the stuff that makes him the most terrifying. Despite the darkness of this movie, I'm still not particularly frightened of Freddy. I appreciated that there was a few less jump scares, and I think uh maybe I'm just numb to it, but I felt like there was less jump scares or cheap shots in this film. I feel like it's quality all around, but I wasn't particularly scared.

SPEAKER_02 17:15

Yeah, this was definitely frightening as a child. And it's so funny because a lot of people recently were like, hey, what are you reviewing this week? And I was like, Oh, nightmare on street three. They're like terrifying. I was like, right now, like as an adult, and they're like, no, but like as a kid, because it's like something you can't like I mean, you have to sleep. You know what I mean? It's not something you're like, oh well, don't go in that part of the park or don't like look under your bed. No, you have to fall asleep at some point, which I totally got when I was a kid, but yeah, not too frightening right now. A little dark, but nothing to be afraid of.

SPEAKER_03 17:47

Same. Yeah, this movie feels like it is scary, but I was not scared.

SPEAKER_05 17:51

Also agreed here. I really wish I had watched this when I was younger, because I feel like this is something that would have gotten me because I love some sleep. And it it's just one of those things I'm never afraid of Freddie, mostly because I love him. I usually laugh along with Freddie, okay? This is uh instead of me telling if this is a scary movie or not, this is gonna turn into me telling if it's funny or not. And this one's funny. Only for Freddie, though. Freddy's the only one that makes me laugh.

SPEAKER_01 18:16

Funny in a good way, funny ha ha, funny.

SPEAKER_05 18:19

Yes, I'm not laughing at him, I'm laughing with him. And like when things happen, I literally chuckle in the middle of this movie.

SPEAKER_01 18:25

So despite the the lack of fear that was instilled in you all, did you feel like this was different in in in comparison to the first two entries that we have?

SPEAKER_05 18:34

I wouldn't say this movie stands out to me as particularly original. I think it, you know, it has some story elements that we've seen before. Freddy is Freddy. It's not like it's the same as anything, but I I don't know. I don't know what you guys think. For me, it's like for originality, it I don't really think it gets brownie points there.

SPEAKER_02 18:52

Yeah, I think it's pretty original because you have Freddy as a worm. You have Freddy as a TV, you have Freddy as a puppet, and you also have Freddy bare bone skeleton. So I'm down for all of that, and I think like I never got that's kind of what I was missing from the first two. Like, I somehow was like, I know there's like this like craziness to him that's like super creepy, and I got that in this, and I think that originality is um is definitely in this movie. Get you a Freddy Who Can Do It All. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 19:27

Multi-pack Freddie. Yes, he can.

SPEAKER_03 19:29

Yeah, we definitely got more range from Freddy for sure, and there were a lot of kills and visual things that I've never seen before, but at the end of the day, it was pretty much the same shtick that we get with a nightmare on Elm Street movie. It's kind of like when you watch a Final Destination movie, like you know what's gonna happen and you know the gist. The circumstances that bring the characters together are different every time, and they kind of try to spice it up, but it's still like the same recipe, the same formula. So it didn't feel particularly original.

SPEAKER_01 19:54

I'm gonna dissent a little bit because I feel like this actually does quite a bit that's very different from the first two films. So the first one we have a final girl, we have friends who are borderline incompetent and are pretty easy to pick off, and we have you know, a father who doesn't really believe her, etc. And then in part two, we have a final boy, and we have you know the queer coding and subtext that was baked into that, which you know we covered in a companion episode over on our Patreon last year. And in this one, there's actual thought and consideration to Freddie growing in strength from the first two films, and you're bringing in this really diverse cast of characters who come from all different walks of life within Springwood, and they're then fighting them as a group, and that feels different. That feels like a departure. It feels more like characters on the offensive versus characters just having to deal with the defensive, and then it gets covered a little bit, right? There's some subtext in the second, some subtext in the original, but this film in particular and the way it handles mental health feels really different as well. There's some dark themes in this, there are some deeper themes in this, and I think we get in the first two films, and I feel really good about it. But one of the things I didn't really feel great about was the ending of this film. How about you folks?

SPEAKER_02 21:11

So my notes at first say I hate the ending. I hate it because it was going in a direction where I thought wouldn't be typical for this movie, and then I reverted back and it ended up being the same ending that every nightmare in Elm Street has, so then I was like, okay. Like this is like the same ending that all of them have. So I didn't think going back to originality, the ending to me wasn't that original.

SPEAKER_05 21:40

I don't have any gripes with the ending. I wouldn't say it sparked joy in me. I wouldn't say it was like my favorite ending I've ever seen, but I didn't hate it.

SPEAKER_02 21:50

I don't know. I'm just like very on the fence that like somehow the church was brought into this. Like, somehow, like some some. Sort of aspects. It's hard to talk about the ending without talking about it, but certain aspects were brought in like this is weird.

unknown 22:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:07

And this has nothing to do with any of the franchise, so why are you bringing it in it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:13

Yeah, without spoiling too much, I will say that probably the top three worst parts of this movie for me were all involving the ending. Uh so I I wouldn't say that this movie necessarily stuck the landing.

SPEAKER_01 22:25

The only criticism I have about the ending is what it chooses to walk away on, the moment in the reveal there. I feel like that could have been easily included or worked in into the third act without being the final scene. There's definitely way better ways to end this film. But we'll see how it shakes out. Seems like we're pretty either indifferent about this ending or don't care much for it at all, but let's see how that shakes out into the scoring. Before we actually rate this movie, Alexis, how many people died? We have a total of six with an asterisk.

SPEAKER_05 22:58

And what about the animal report? Unless you consider Freddie an animal, we have a clean animal report this week. All good to go.

SPEAKER_01 23:04

Let's go ahead and get into our ratings. A nightmare on Elm Street 3, Dream Warriors from 1987. Was it a hacker or slash?

SPEAKER_05 23:13

I'll just go ahead and get my slash out of the way. Okay. You guys know how I feel about Freddie. This is one of the best nightmare on Elm Street movies that I've seen, which excites me so much. It's one of these things like I I sometimes am so unhappy with things I have to watch for the podcast, but I'm so happy to be a part of this. This is one that like brings me back to life. And I'm like, yes, I'm so excited that the people on Patreon were like, yo, y'all should do this movie because now I've seen it and I love it. And now I can say this is maybe my favorite movie with Freddie. I felt like they really did balance the old history of him versus what's actually going on. From a general standpoint, I really liked the characters. They were interesting, like this group of people coming together, um, all their different stories and stuff like that, the different characters that they play. I really enjoyed it. And Freddy has maybe the most fun I've ever seen him have. And that's my favorite thing about Freddie is he's out here talking trash and making fun of you while he is in your dreams trying to kill you. So what more could you want from a killer? You know, it's a weird thing for me to love, but I do love Freddy, and this is such a good movie, in my opinion. I'm not saying it's perfect. I don't think any Nightmare on Elm Street film is. I feel like of all the like iconic, you know, 80s slasher genre, maybe Freddy has like the most room for improvement. Like Michael Myers really has his stuff together. Freddy's a little questionable sometimes, but I love Freddie. All his flaws are accepted by me. This is a solid slash.

SPEAKER_01 24:47

Look at that unconditional love. I wouldn't say all his flaws. Find you someone on this earth who loves you the way Ryan loves Freddie Krueger. I'm here simping for Freddie.

SPEAKER_02 24:57

Ryan, I couldn't agree more. Like I love the first one so much. Um, the second one did not really enjoy. Um, but this one really somehow it stuck in my head had I not even seen this, but I knew what it was about. So to me, that says a lot. Um, I love that they the effects that they had. Um, just the creativity behind the kills. Um, and the creativity that you can have behind Freddy is endless. So I like that they took it to the extremes and it wasn't too much. It was cool the way people died in this. It was cool the effects they had. Um, and it didn't look cheesy. It looked, it looked phenomenal. And with all that said, I mean, the acting, uh, it was a little sketchy in some parts, but I do like the whole feel of the group and I rooted for all of them. Um, so yeah, I mean, there really isn't much. I mean, I definitely eventually you're gonna have to pick a worse part of this movie in the second half, which is kind of hard for me, but honestly, I'm definitely giving this a slash for sure.

SPEAKER_03 25:59

So I am somebody who obviously has not had the best track record with Nightmare on Elm Street. I think I saw Freddy vs. Jason in theaters, don't remember a thing about it, whether I liked it or not. Um, but this movie honestly was pretty fun. I was entertained for the most part. Um, I could cut out maybe 20 minutes of it and enjoy it more. Uh, and a lot of things in the ending were kind of suspicious, let's say that. Um, but I think this movie really nails it with a lot of the kills and a lot of the effects that we get, um, which is just enough for me to give this a soft slash.

SPEAKER_02 26:36

Wow. I'm so impressed. I just knew. I I thought you would just give it a hack just to give it a hack, though. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:42

Oh, I would never hack something for hack's sake.

SPEAKER_02 26:45

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 26:45

Some of your hacks have been questionable, sir.

SPEAKER_03 26:47

Listen, if I don't like it, I don't like it. This I didn't not like. I had a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_05 26:52

Wow. Um and that's and that's knowing that it's a hack until proven otherwise.

SPEAKER_03 26:57

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 26:57

Very proud. So happy.

SPEAKER_03 26:59

It was honestly, it started off on a really great foot and it was pretty consistent through the middle. And then at the end, I was like, oh, it's getting hacky, it's getting hacky, but I was like, okay, it's still slashier than it is hacky.

SPEAKER_05 27:11

Overall.

SPEAKER_01 27:12

It ended soon enough that it didn't go to full hack.

SPEAKER_03 27:15

Yep, sure did.

SPEAKER_01 27:16

Wow. Well, I am sufficiently surprised and blown away. The thing about this film in particular is it comes at a time when the franchise had hit a really big high, then it hit a really big low, and this movie is tasked with reviving the franchise, right? When I look at just the quality of the production, this movie is ambitious and it really has the goal of passing the torch. How do we recapture some of the greatness of the original while still being able to welcome a new generation of characters? And I believe Zach actually included a little bit of that in part of his longer message to us with his nomination for this film. And I think ultimately this succeeds. Parrish, you you mentioned earlier you didn't like the third Friday the 13th, you didn't like the third Halloween film. And I think it's safe to say that some of the films in this franchise are better than others, and this one I think is the other high point. I think it's this, I think it's uh the original, and I think it's New Nightmare. I'm really bummed that in life I experienced this out of order. I feel like I would have had a really great impression and memory of it had I seen it in the way that it was meant to be viewed. Despite the small pain points I have, this movie is fun. This movie is dark. The performances generally are pretty top-notch, and for that, it's a slash. Which means that in the history of Hacker Slash, our very first slasher pick is a universal slash.

SPEAKER_03 28:46

Oh my god, that is true.

SPEAKER_02 28:47

Look at our patrons leading us on a good path of success. I'm definitely taking all of their, yeah, all of their suggestions for movies.

SPEAKER_03 28:55

We're making history.

SPEAKER_01 28:56

So glad we're starting off on the right foot, but there you have it, folks. A nightmare on Elm Street 3 Dream War Years from 1987 is a universal slash, thanks to our patrons. You can find this movie available for rent or purchase online. We highly recommend it. Check it out, then join us in the second half so we can break down the spoilers. See you in a bit.

SPEAKER_00 29:35

Hi, I'm Nancy Thompson. During this program, we'll explore the science behind lucidity, how to induce lucid dreams, what to do with them, and how to transcend any obstacle. Obstacles like the generational curse of a demonic child murderer born of a hundred maniacs. Lucid dreaming has been developed for thousands of years in the East, the North, the South, and recently augmented with sophisticated techniques from the West. Don't let your dreams be dreams. Sign up for the Nancy Thompson Lucid Dreaming Workshop today.

SPEAKER_01 30:15

Welcome back, folks. You are now entering the spoiler zone for a nightmare on Elm Street 3, Dream Warriors, which is Runday Universal. Now we have a lot to get to here, but before we get into the specifics of our ratings, Alexis, what's the gore score?

SPEAKER_02 30:28

Well, I would like to say medium, but if there was a medium high, I think that's what it would go under. Yeah, we're just gonna say for purposes of the podcast, it is high. And the asterisk that came from when we were talking about the body count, six, essentially it's seven because you do see Elaine um die in this movie, and you see her head, it's pretty funky, it's cool. But essentially she comes back, not to spoil too much, but she comes back in the fourth movie.

SPEAKER_01 30:58

It was just a dream.

SPEAKER_02 31:00

Yeah, it is a dream, so I wasn't sure what to count. I was like, what's real and what's not? That's what I always messed up about these movies. I'm like, did I just watch the death? Because you can die in your dreams in these movies, but you can't. But is it is it her dream or is it Freddie's dream? It's just a topsy turvy world.

SPEAKER_05 31:17

It is a bit of a uh a brain teaser because you're like, you can die in dreams, but only if it's your dream. And you can be in someone else's dream, but only if you're actually asleep is your life in danger. And someone else can bring you into a dream, but Freddy's always there, and Freddie never dies. It kind of doesn't make sense.

SPEAKER_02 31:33

I know. I was wishing Freddie would be in the body count this week, but if we know anything, we know he's not.

SPEAKER_05 31:38

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 31:39

But essentially, he maybe be killed by holy water. Jakes, whatever. In a whiskey bottle. That's my vibe. That you talk about vibes, that's my the true holy water.

SPEAKER_01 31:50

That feels like Max vibe. Yeah, that is Max vibe.

SPEAKER_05 31:53

Yeah. Whiskey and holy water, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_02 31:56

Yeah, this movie's like crazy, like top Curvy and the comedic value that this movie has like kind of takes away from the gore for me. But um, I know everyone else has their opinions, but I'd love to know out of those six kills, possibly seven if you want to count Elaine, but um, what was your favorite?

SPEAKER_01 32:13

Oof, man. Let me tell you, my favorite is my least favorite. It's the one that hurt the most because I I hated the way she went out, and that's Taryn. Taryn, who was previously an addict, had turned down uh any attempts to get her back on that road, and Freddy just turns his hand into syringes, and then she dies of an overdose. It's heartbreaking, and I really didn't want to see her go out. Although I gotta give bonus points because in that fight scene, I was thinking, man, she really should have dreamed up better weapons than these switchblades. But she actually stabbed Robert England. She went hard.

SPEAKER_03 32:51

In real life?

SPEAKER_01 32:52

In real life, she stabbed him in the ribs, and it was like a prop knife, right? So it can't be that sharp, but it definitely penetrated his skin. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_05 33:00

So her dream weapons were mediocre, but her real life weapons, doing pretty good.

SPEAKER_01 33:04

Yeah. Slicing and dicing, no kidding.

SPEAKER_05 33:06

Well, that one definitely is like a favorite because it's a least favorite. That that one hurts your heart a little, you know. He really he really didn't have to do that. That's one of those dark moments. For me, my favorite is the absolute creepiest thing I've ever seen in my life, and that is Phillips' death, where he is used as a puppet, and his veins are pulled from his skin, from underneath his skin, to be used as the strings, walking him out of a window. He's a real boy, he was definitely a real boy, and it was really disgusting. And also, they did not shy away from showing it on camera. It was there so many times, so many like up close shots of like a foot with veins pulled out. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 33:49

Yeah, the effects on that were crazy, and I mean it looks so realistic. I mean, I I don't know. Like sometimes I get like sore sores on my arm. Um, my arm from like sleeping on it gets weird, and so I always like flex it out. And I don't know, I'm just weird. I'm like, wait, what if I flex one of my veins? I like break it or something like that. And then this was like terrifying to watch for sure.

SPEAKER_05 34:09

Yeah, just so we're clear, very difficult to pull veins out of people's flesh and keep them intact enough to drag them somewhere. Exactly. But if anyone can do it, it's Freddie.

SPEAKER_03 34:18

Once again, Ryan, you have excellent taste in kills because the Philip kill was my favorite as well. Was it just me, or did everybody else think that like Philip was gonna be the main guy? He had like main guy energy. I thought he was gonna make it to the end and then he fully died, and I was like, oh shit. Okay, so Freddie's not fucking around.

SPEAKER_01 34:33

Yeah, he had such confidence he had to be taken out.

SPEAKER_03 34:35

He also had great skin and a gorgeous blouse that I really wish I could buy.

SPEAKER_02 34:39

I love how you're talking about his skin, though, though like it was like ripped open.

SPEAKER_03 34:43

Yeah, before that. He had great skin before that. Um but yeah, those visual effects were like so good and so gross, and that's something I've never seen before or even like thought of. I don't know who comes up with this shit, but it was very effective. As far as the Taryn kill though, that literally did nothing for me. And my question to you, Chris, Taryn, are we calling it? Is she a lesbian?

SPEAKER_01 35:03

Oh, if only. Well, here's the thing. Is the actress behind the role in a lesbian?

SPEAKER_03 35:08

Probably not.

SPEAKER_01 35:09

Most certainly not. Is Taryn a lesbian, though? At the very least. She's had some interactions and has enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_03 35:15

Yeah, I think we could say that. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 35:17

I mostly just love how they tried to make her look like worn, I'm not pretty, kind of like trashy, but she was actually just like gorgeous and effortless. Stunning.

SPEAKER_03 35:26

Yeah, she was. She looked so good, and then she's like, in my dreams, I'm hot. And I was like, You're hot already. What is this wig you put on?

SPEAKER_01 35:33

Exactly.

SPEAKER_05 35:33

This mohawk is not it.

SPEAKER_01 35:35

Yeah, the mohawk doesn't add anything here, madam. Yeah. You have gorgeous eyes and great hair, and you have the confidence of a woman who knows her way around the world.

SPEAKER_04 35:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:43

I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 35:44

When I when I saw this, and I'm like, maybe I'm confusing this with Peter Pan and Rufio, uh, because I was getting Rufio vibes.

SPEAKER_03 35:51

Oh my god, that's actually a really good comparison. Because the Mohawk is there. Rufio is famously the hottest one in that hook movie.

SPEAKER_02 36:00

Well, to kick off the gore, you know, you guys had some great choices, but mine was Jennifer's scene. So for this iconic scene, first you have this dummy of Jennifer that was used with fully flexible limbs that were made out of fiberglass and urethane. And of course, you know, a finishing touch with a matching wig. Second, which is super cool because you see this TV. Well, the team built five fake TVs, each with a different function. One being equipped with a rubber membrane, uh, which the dummy of Freddy could actually push his head through. Yeah. After that, they substituted the dummy, obviously, with Robert England, and he came out of the TV, which I loved. Like, I wasn't expecting him to just like pop out of the TV.

SPEAKER_05 36:44

Something funny is that my roommate was sitting next to me as I finished, yeah, I finished watching this, and I turned it back on right at that scene, and she just looks and is like, What just happened? And I'm like, I can't even explain it. It's just Freddie. It is, it is just Freddie. It's prime time.

SPEAKER_02 37:01

So another one of the TVs was equipped with uh metal arms, which Freddy actually used, which included his uh finger blades and vacuum tubes that were made from the real television.

SPEAKER_05 37:12

Yeah, that scene is just so iconic. And Paris, the lines that you missed, because of course Jennifer had said, I'm gonna be on TV, I'm gonna go to LA and be an actress. Oh he says, This is it, Jennifer. You're big breaking TV, and then says the iconic, welcome to prime time.

SPEAKER_03 37:33

Damn. Okay, so it really came full circle.

SPEAKER_05 37:36

It was really full, it was a whole thing and it was executed beautifully. Yeah, I I love that.

SPEAKER_01 37:41

It is the moment of the movie, Paris, and you missed it.

SPEAKER_03 37:44

Really? I mean, I watched the whole thing and it was like one of my least favorite kills.

SPEAKER_05 37:47

It is the moment of the movie, and what's really funny is that line is actually improvised by Robert England that was not in the script, which I think is iconic and amazing and proof that he truly is Freddy.

SPEAKER_03 37:59

I love that. I definitely appreciate that kill more now.

SPEAKER_02 38:02

For Tyran's death, which was Chris's favorite. So the team had originally tried to do an effect where the head was gonna be exploded after the injection, but they obviously couldn't make this work in practical um effects, and also it looked a little bit fake when they had tried. So instead, they put um appliances on Jennifer Rubin's body to show the withering effects of the injection, which I thought was pretty cool.

SPEAKER_03 38:26

Yeah, like the veins and stuff under her skin were really creepy.

SPEAKER_02 38:29

Oh my gosh, I know. It was like, oh, it was creepy. Uh they look like cigarette burns. I know they were like another thing, but it was just Oh yeah, I forgot about those. They looked like little faces, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:40

They looked like little vaginas, let's say that.

SPEAKER_02 38:42

And for the most upsetting death, I think, of the entire movie, which is Nancy's. Um, so it was in Wes Craven's original Dream Warriors screenplay. Although much of the finished film had nothing to do with his script, he was essentially responsible for Nancy's death more than anyone. So when he created her in the Nightmare on Elm Street OG in 1984, he would be the one to kill her as well in this movie. So it's really cool to see him create her um and essentially be the one to kill her off as well.

SPEAKER_05 39:12

Yeah, that was a one I wish shouldn't happen, you know?

SPEAKER_01 39:15

I didn't want to see Nancy go.

SPEAKER_03 39:16

But wait, I guess she comes back.

SPEAKER_01 39:18

So A new nightmare is meta. So Heather Langkamp comes back, but the Nancy character is dead.

SPEAKER_05 39:25

So, of course, I have to come in with some effects notes because this movie is amazing for the visual effects. So true. And practical effects, yes. So there's a just like a couple little interesting things that I found. Honestly, this is a movie that has so many effects, it would be difficult to even go in and describe so many of them. But one that I think is particularly funny is when Freddy is a snake and or a worm object thing with a head.

SPEAKER_04 39:54

Oh no.

SPEAKER_05 39:55

They made it kind of in like a skin tone color originally, and it was too phallic and literally just looked like a giant dick eating somebody. Oh yeah, I could totally see that. Nom nom, am I right?

SPEAKER_03 40:06

Plus, they also made it moist.

SPEAKER_05 40:07

Okay, so here's the thing. So they actually had to put this like green goo on it so that it wasn't like pink. So it just became like a darker phallic object, but slightly less it looked like he was made out of tar. Yeah, yeah. So it they took away like the pinkish color and and made him like gooey and gross. Yeah, he definitely was real gooey. Yeah, and then this is another one of those scenes that I'm we've been talking about effects a lot lately, and one of the most common tricks or techniques, it seems, is to film things and play them in reverse. So this is another one where he was eating in reverse uh to get it to work on film.

SPEAKER_03 40:45

Oh, so they like had her in it and they were like pulling it off of her.

SPEAKER_05 40:49

Exactly, which is really disgusting.

SPEAKER_03 40:51

Yeah, it's kind of like she was in a sleeping bag.

SPEAKER_02 40:54

Yeah, but with teeth. There you go, and working her way out. Yeah, I like that. When we first learned about it and Carrie, um, well, personally, I first learned about it and Carrie. I thought it was pretty cool to film stuff backward. Clearly, it's an obvious thing.

SPEAKER_05 41:07

And it was um one of those things from American Werewolf in London, too, with like the hair growing. So yeah, that was backwards. So yeah, it's an interesting thing that I didn't know about. Phantasm.

SPEAKER_03 41:16

And in Jack Frost when they melted that snow in reverse. Remember that?

SPEAKER_05 41:21

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 41:22

I apologize.

SPEAKER_05 41:23

And then another little interesting thing is that there's the skeleton version of that girl that Kristen is holding when she's like running through the house. It was originally built over weeks and weeks, and then when they put it in the film, it was so creepy that they weren't comfortable using it. And they were like, Hey, can you make something real quick to use instead? And ended up being just it was like this mechanical corpse dummy thing that was literally too scary for Freddie Krueger, evidently. So they had to change that out. And I just, once again, this is another of those things. Imagine the time it takes somebody to build this incredible, beautiful thing. And then a director is like, Yeah, it's too much. Let's use a, you know, let's use a skeleton from Speared Halloween.

SPEAKER_01 42:04

Can I tell you how hilarious it was when she picks up the girl and then it suddenly very obviously becomes the fake skeleton? Yeah. And it's just the stiffest legs, the curliest hair.

SPEAKER_03 42:16

So stiff.

SPEAKER_01 42:17

So bad.

SPEAKER_05 42:18

Yeah, I hated that. There's a couple of things. Uh something that I like wasn't a super fan of in here was like the claymation kind of vibes that we get somewhere through. But I don't know. The effects were so interesting all the way throughout. I have one last thing, and it's about the pig on the table. In a very original Texas Chainsaw Massacre kind of way, they actually roasted a real pig, left it to spoil and be disgusting, and that's what they used. And there was a prop guy underneath puppeting this.

SPEAKER_03 42:46

Ew, I hate that.

SPEAKER_05 42:47

Yeah. And the guy that was behind the camera said it's was so disgusting, he can actually still smell it to this day. That's rotted. Absolutely horrifying.

SPEAKER_01 42:55

Ooh, that sounds so disgusting, and I'm not a fan, but but those effects and how well they're executed is the real payoff of this movie. And when I think about some of the best parts of it, it really is the set design, and it's the way that these effects work seamlessly in there. And the the shot that I just can't get out of my head, it's so haunting. It's when Kristen is carrying, you know, this Party City, uh Michael's skeleton, and she discovers all the bodies just hanging. Yes. The composition of that, the set design of that, everything that goes into that scene, it's it for some reason, out of everything that this movie has with the marionetting veins, that is the moment that I just cannot get out of my head.

SPEAKER_05 43:39

Yeah, that one is uh, I don't know, it's one of those really, really creepy moments where if it had come later in the film, it might haunt me for the rest of my life. And since it came so early, it was one of the first ones we get that I almost forgot about it, but it is so creepy.

SPEAKER_03 43:52

Yeah, I totally wrote it down when it happened. I was like, that is a very nice visual. The lighting, the composition, like you said, Chris, that was like a really solid shot. And to Think like it probably took so much work to do that, and it was like a like three-second clip.

SPEAKER_05 44:04

Yes, the the exhaustion of special effects artists everywhere is felt.

SPEAKER_01 44:09

It's okay. They got the majority of the budget.

SPEAKER_05 44:12

So I have two favorite visual elements, and one is for fun and one is legit. So the legit one is Freddy's chest with all the little screaming faces coming out of it. Cause it's just like again, it's that's nightmare fuel. Like his skin is already so burnt and gross, and then there's the faces literally like trying to get out of his chest, and he's like, I get my energy from the souls. Oh so creepy, so ugly, but awesome. But my favorite other silly visual element is the mama lane. She is a look, an existence. She lives a life of luxury from this era. Okay, and I appreciate it. Although a horrible mother, really fun, and uh absolutely hilarious when she says, You always mess this up when I bring a guy home and then it's Freddie.

SPEAKER_03 45:01

Ryan, who are you tonight? Me?

SPEAKER_05 45:03

I know, really. I feel like it.

SPEAKER_03 45:05

That mom was absolutely giving glamour. And from the jump, I was like, Okay, mom, I hope you come back later on. And she definitely did when she got decapitated and then delivered that hilarious line. I'll give two favorite visuals as well because the hanging school children in the dream was definitely one of them. But I feel like a really quick one that they did was when Nancy fell into the white chair as she was pulled into Kristen's dream. That was like so well done, and I was like, oh shit, that was very cool looking.

SPEAKER_05 45:31

Especially considering Apple has a commercial right now where you like fall into your couch. Same, same but different. That scene was awesome.

SPEAKER_02 45:37

Yeah, I definitely have Freddy's skin with the soles in them. That's like definitely my favorite. My favorite visual definitely has to be this scene where the mirrors are in there and they're being pulled into the mirrors. I just thought that was really cool.

SPEAKER_05 45:49

Yeah, and that's one of the moments where instead of being fully practical effects, a lot of visual effects were brought in, which I thought was really interesting that they mixed so much of the two, especially toward the end. Yeah, they used like mylar and manipulated that, which I thought was pretty neat. Yeah. And also a thing I didn't even know existed. I was like, how did they do this? Because this isn't practical. Like you can tell it's not practical. So it's uh it's really interesting. It's very interesting, like I said, a kind of mix with the kind of like clay animation and puppetry, I guess, and uh the visual effects and practical effects.

SPEAKER_03 46:23

Another one of my favorite visuals was when we have um Joey like literally tongue-tied to the bed frame, and then like the bowels of hell open up beneath him. They they focus on that a couple different times, but I was like, the mechanics of this look really good. I don't know how they're doing it, but it's very nicely done. Um, but leading into that moment was actually one of my favorite scenes where Joey is in his dream, his dream state. And first of all, can we say Joey looks like Nev Campbell if Nev Campbell was a boy?

SPEAKER_01 46:50

You know, I didn't think it, but I agree with it.

SPEAKER_03 46:52

Right? I was like, okay, this is the male Nev Campbell, love that. Um, but when he has that moment where he's like with the nurse, and then she obviously takes her whole top off and like has enormous breasts for almost no reason at all. Um, and then it ends up being Freddie. I loved that so much.

SPEAKER_05 47:09

I honestly in that moment thought we were gonna get Freddy transforming with half boob still. I'm glad we didn't.

SPEAKER_03 47:16

I wanted it to.

SPEAKER_01 47:17

The intention was actually for that to happen, and they just couldn't take it seriously when they did it, so they just uh reverted the head.

SPEAKER_05 47:25

It's a smart decision, I'm sure. Especially after after the tongues, like we already had the tongues, the tongues were a lot to accept, okay?

SPEAKER_04 47:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:33

Yeah. My favorite scene, and I think it's because it's so nostalgic for me, is uh when Nancy comes in and first enters into the movie and she finishes the rhyme. I just love that. I think because I was like super excited, I wasn't expecting her in, and I just like felt like a little kid when she stepped into that scene. That's so true.

SPEAKER_05 47:53

That was like a very, a very special moment. And then I have kind of one that relates to that, but it's on the other end where Nancy's kind of finally being honest about what's going on, and then she convinces the doctor to let them go and do a session where they do hypnosis and everything. And it's that moment where they all think they've just come out of hypnosis and they didn't fall asleep and it didn't work, and they're all just sitting in the room, they're like, Oh, I'm sorry, like next time it'll work. I thought we were gonna try something, and they don't all know that they're still well, that they are hypnotized and they did go to sleep. And I love that moment because as the watcher, you know they're asleep, like you know that this is bad things are about to happen, but then they all start like describing their powers once they realize everything. I just love that little scene right before we get to the death there.

SPEAKER_01 48:39

That's a good one, and I think when I when I think about that scene, I I actually really like the the bit where they wake up and they realize that that Joey's gone. But I think my favorite scene in this entire movie is actually the beginning, and it's seeing Kristen, who's obviously been battling with his sleep deprivation, uh eating ground coffee, ground instant coffee and chasing it with Coke. Dude, is that what that was? Yeah, instant coffee, a cup, a spoonful of instant coffee, and a chug of Coke. So intense. And that's not even the most psychotic thing she did in this entire movie, but that whole bit, you know, she's struggling to stay awake, and when we finally get that first real dream when she's walking through Nancy's house when she meets the little girl, and the little girl is like right in front of the boiler room and says, This is where he takes us, that felt chilling. And that was the first bit of Freddy lore and that connection to the past that I really loved, especially since we're walking into the Thompson household. We've seen this house now in two films. I absolutely loved it. It was the best possible note for this film to start on for me.

SPEAKER_05 49:46

I agree, except there was one moment there when she said that that I was afraid it was gonna go back to the same like questionable children with behavior vibes from the second one. I was like, please, I don't want to go there.

SPEAKER_01 49:58

There's also something really weird that I have to point out here, and it is actually Patricia Arquette, who is stunning. Yeah, I really enjoyed her in this film. Uh, this was her first film debut, and she had a really rough go of it on set. But did anyone else notice how she looked like a grown-ass woman as she's like, you know, doing the popsicle sticks house, she's eating the coffee, drinking the coke, and the second she gets in that infantile bed with the pink sheets, she looks like a child. Like she looks very different throughout this entire movie.

SPEAKER_03 50:28

She's like one of those people who, even when they were young, they looked like really tired and like aged. So I feel like you're totally right. Like sometimes she definitely looked a lot older than she was.

SPEAKER_05 50:38

Yeah. And then she in the end, like just looked so like tattered as she was like exhausted from trying to stay awake and all that.

SPEAKER_01 50:45

See, it's so weird because I feel like she looked like a just like a young adult. Like she didn't seem weathered or anything to me, you know. It was the exact opposite where I have moments where she looked like a young child. Like she has one of these faces that when at some points when she was like laying down, or like you got a shot from like beneath her chin where she's like screaming. It looks like a young blonde child, early teens, screaming. It was very, very weird to me.

SPEAKER_03 51:12

It was also the bangs.

SPEAKER_01 51:13

She was actually just, you know, the tip of the iceberg with the characters in this movie. I loved so many of them, particularly Taryn and Kincaid. I think they were the real stars of the show for me.

SPEAKER_05 51:24

I have to agree. I often come here and complain about like groups of teenagers in movies, especially like high school friends in these horror movies. They usually rub me the wrong way, and I usually think they're like ridiculous. But I think because these kids had all kind of gone through things and they all had like their unique characteristics. I've I really, really liked this group. And I'm interested. I think somebody had mentioned that they didn't love all the characters. I actually I liked all the characters. Maybe Neil is the only character that I didn't really care for in this.

SPEAKER_01 51:56

So it was me who said the characters were a mixed bag, and Neil was the mixest of bags for me. It was the trying to have sex with people vibes.

SPEAKER_05 52:04

He didn't actually, but like it it was like all I care about is like I want to be with this woman now, and like that's not like taking you to dinner and stuff. No, thank you. Yeah, they did film a scene where they made out.

SPEAKER_03 52:16

Yeah, it felt very much like they were supposed to have been dating and he was way into her, and she was just kind of like trying to get something done, and also she looked 17 and he was a hundred, so I was like, what is going on with this? I hate it. Also, I hated Nancy's dad, and that when they linked up together, I was like, Can we please cut out every scene that the two of you are in?

SPEAKER_01 52:34

I need you to not ever slander John Saxon ever again. That man is an icon and a legend, and I love him. Rest in peace. I don't know, he doesn't do it for me either.

SPEAKER_03 52:43

The dad sucked in the original and he sucked in this one. I stand by that.

SPEAKER_05 52:46

But I just like to know what is life if not women trying to get things done and men trying to be with them.

SPEAKER_03 52:52

God, I know. Don't you think you would have like picked up on the vibe when like they went to meet her dad, and then like it's just the two of them left at the bar, and I'm like, okay, you realize you're the same age as this man, right? Are you are you seeing that?

SPEAKER_05 53:04

That's a good point.

SPEAKER_03 53:04

Just one character that I was not expecting to like was the um like the flesh-toned nun.

SPEAKER_05 53:09

It was her flesh.

SPEAKER_03 53:10

Yeah, I was like, okay, first of all, they keep showing this random nun. That's gonna be stupid. I'm alright, I already don't care about that. But then the more we got into her, and then we found out, like, oh, she actually is actually a very valuable part of the story. She knows a a lot of the the origins of Freddy.

SPEAKER_05 53:24

Sorry, you realized that that was his mother.

SPEAKER_03 53:27

Yeah, and what happened to her.

SPEAKER_05 53:29

It's horrific.

SPEAKER_03 53:30

Um, I don't know how she ended up coming back as like a nun ghost, but work. Um and I feel like that actress was kind of like really giving it in a way that I didn't anticipate from a a throwaway character, a seemingly throwaway character. She was given it.

SPEAKER_01 53:43

I enjoyed her. I wish they had taken the reveal of the headstone. Yeah, I wish they had done it slightly differently or moved it up in the story because it felt like such a waste of the impact of that.

SPEAKER_03 53:53

Yeah. You're kind of just like, oh, that was his mom. Now what? Credits. Oh, it's the credits.

SPEAKER_02 53:58

I thought the acting, although I liked the actors that were in this movie, it just seemed like some of the dialogue just was a little like cheesy for me. Um, and I think a lot of it was coming from Nancy's side, and I just couldn't stop looking at her teeth, and I was like, looked at a photo from her in the 1984 one, and I was like, oh, okay, she had the teeth there, but I think she wasn't talking as much or trying to persuade people about things. But yeah, Chris, you had mentioned it before. She definitely seemed like she was speaking down to everyone in this movie, and I think I was just getting those vibes, and I was like, Nancy though, not my Nancy. My Nancy's like, come on, y'all, let's do this. Like, not you should be doing this.

SPEAKER_01 54:45

It's a good point because I didn't even pick up on like the condescending stuff. I just meant like speaking to a child is in like a very soft-spoken, very nurturing, very you know, I'm really just gonna speak a lot lighter. And it's like almost unbearable with how lightly she's speaking. But yeah, she she fell flat for me a few times, but man, I also hurt for her for this nosy ass Neil. Uh, going through her belongings when her purse when it falls out of her purse and he's just like reading that hypnosil label real hard. It's like what an asshole.

SPEAKER_05 55:17

Yeah, that moment was so corny with the backdrop. I was like, Alright, we get it.

SPEAKER_03 55:21

That's a HIPAA violation for sure.

SPEAKER_01 55:23

Yeah. Also, uh fuck Neil when he gives the quote uh referencing Philip, that's a cowardly thing, that's an empty thing. He let us all down. Man, how much more insensitive could you possibly be in this situation?

SPEAKER_03 55:38

Yeah, fuck Neil.

SPEAKER_01 55:39

Yeah, he was real trash.

SPEAKER_02 55:40

Also, I was uh like I said, I'm a fan of this this Freddie. There's this humor, and I think it balances well with Kincaid's um humor, but also there's this like viciousness towards him, you know. But I think the worst part for me was when they that Freddy was a skeleton. I'll essentially that wasn't Robert England, but like I just was like, what is this? This isn't a Freddy vibe. It's the holy water, the all of this, like this just didn't fit into the movie for me. Like that whole last scene from then on. I was like, I'm so confused. It reminds me of that little cartoon that's always the gift that's really popular with the skeletons dancing, the like kind of old school like one.

SPEAKER_01 56:26

Spooky, scary skeletons and shivers down your spine.

SPEAKER_05 56:30

Yeah, Alexis, you're totally right. I think the visual effects of the skeleton fighting were horrible. Like, whatever that was, it felt like someone had an idea, and other people were maybe like, I'm not so sure about that. And they were like, No, I have to make this happen. And I I wish that they hadn't. It was like for a movie with such incredible practical effects, we get to that point and it feels horrible. Like the skeleton is like HD, everything else on the screen is like fully blurred, it was a mess. And the other thing is like the whole holy water burying, finding his remains. Like, I was really excited to see the car.

SPEAKER_02 57:11

I was like super stoked that that made an appearance in the movie, but it didn't make sense, like yeah, because this isn't like a evil, like, this isn't like a a force that is like a demon. I mean, I guess essentially, but like there's no like it's like a demon spirit, like where you know and you need to do like an exorcism. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, to me, I said Freddie is killed by holy water. I said, Yeah, that's like Michael Myers being killed by a fire, like it's not happening, it's not even in the realm.

SPEAKER_05 57:40

And then we get like he's flash splashing the water on him, and we could just get like glowing Freddy, and I'm just like horrible. Okay, I don't know what's happening here. That is for me definitely the worst part. I didn't hate the whole ending, like as far as like everything that happened with the group with the mirrors and um Nancy and all that stuff. I enjoyed all that. It was just like the whole junkyard scene that just didn't do it for me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 58:07

Yeah, absolutely. Uh the scene with Neil and the dad in the junkyard absolutely sucked ass. The skeleton fight was of among my top three worst parts of the movie. Number two was the Mohawk wig that Taryn had on. That was such a choice, and I hope everyone that was involved in it regrets it. But the absolute worst part of this movie was when Will is like the wizard master and there's like a demonic wheelchair chasing him. I was like, okay, can we please not like the the green magic effects were so stupid? The wheelchair was so stupid, even though it looked like somebody put way too much effort into it. And I was like, all of this just to have like a like a normal Freddy stab kill? Like, why? Why did we do this?

SPEAKER_05 58:48

Okay, see, I don't agree about the chair. I think the chair was really cool for like a nightmare, you know, but the whole wizardmaster thing, I literally text Chris, Wizardmaster, zero out of ten. Do not recommend.

SPEAKER_03 58:59

Right?

SPEAKER_05 59:00

Like, I I don't ever need laser effects in a movie. Almost never am I happy with finger lasers.

SPEAKER_01 59:06

I think the thing for me is I I felt like some of the characters' powers lacked imagination. Like, yo, girl, I get being a gymnast and doing these sick backflips and wall jumps is is really practical in this moment, but I feel like you could have also dreamed up yourself a little bit more powerful, maybe.

SPEAKER_03 59:22

Okay, but that was also very funny to watch every time it happened.

SPEAKER_01 59:26

It was. It was. It was entertaining, but same thing with the wizard master, I think. Just thinking about like DD in general and thinking about all the all the spells he could have cast in that moment, it was the arcane lightning that seemed really impractical that killed me.

SPEAKER_03 59:41

Not the arcane lightning.

SPEAKER_05 59:43

Before we move forward, I do have to break the rules a little and tell one other best part for me. And it's just because so many good parts are in this movie, but the beginning scene with Kristen in the bathroom when the handles turn into hands, like and they grab her and the pipes come out and they turn into Freddy's hand. I love that scene so so much. There's a really cool article online from one of the guys that was a part of sculpting a lot of those props, and he wrote about it. And he also said that you should never be a special effects artist because it's really unhealthy for you. He's like, Hey, I had a really great time, but I don't recommend this because of fumes and everything, and it's like kind of dangerous, but uh did it anyway. So, anyway, that was one of my favorite parts, and there's just so many interesting little things that they did as far as effects in this movie that make my dreams come true, you know?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:33

10 out of 10, but wouldn't recommend. I hear that.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:36

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:37

And when you mention it, there's just the reveal of Elaine finding Kristen, and then it like shows that in this dream she ended up somehow attempting to slit her wrist via Freddy. That was just such a jarring shot, right? And it was a it was a good one, but also a disturbing one. But when I think about the worst part of this movie, it's it's gonna seem really silly because of how top-notch this movie is. What kind of person opens flower that way in the very beginning of this movie? She just like plopped it down and then took like the entire top part and just ripped it open. First, it's impractical. I don't think anyone could ever actually do that. And B, why would you? Like, I know you're probably gonna use the whole bag for Modge Podge, but that just seems absurd.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:23

The opening scene of this movie, at first I thought she was baking, and I was like, wow, is baking the most disgusting thing I've ever seen? Like as she's like mixing the flour and pouring it into a bowl, I was like, oh my god, I'm gonna vomit. This is disgusting. Why did they make this so gross?

SPEAKER_03 1:01:38

People don't paper mache like they used to.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:40

No, they really don't. Definitely not with spoonfuls of instant coffee chugged.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:46

Ooh, so bad. Despite how weird that moment was for me with that entire bag of flour just being ripped open like that, I would absolutely watch this again, would you?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:57

Definitely. Definitely. I can see myself starting this, watching one, skipping two, and then three, and then on. Yeah, I'd totally watch this again. I wouldn't be mad if it was on at all.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:07

I don't know that I need to watch this again, but it has renewed my hope that the rest of the movies may also be somewhat good. Specifically the newer ones. I'm looking forward to seeing those because I feel like if Freddie can actually scare me, I would really enjoy that. And I feel like a modern take has the best chance of doing that.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:24

Well, the newest one outside of Freddy versus Jason would be the 1994 New Nightmare, which is pretty meta. It is Wes Craven's attempt at meta before doing Scream two years later, so I would recommend it, but I would not expect to be scared by it necessarily.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:39

Wait, isn't there one from like the past 10 years? And the guy looks like Benedict Cumberbatch.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:44

Yeah, why would you watch that though?

SPEAKER_03 1:02:45

Well, because it looks like it could be scary.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:47

That's famously trash.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:48

Oh man, that's the one I had the most hope for.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:51

I I I don't have much hope for it, but what I do have hope for is how you'll perform in this next round of fact or fiction. Have you prepared yourselves, Dream Warriors? We have. You don't have to get ready if you stay ready. We'll start off with number one. The actor who plays Kincaid provided some moments of comedic relief with his quips. He actually landed the role when he decided to approach his audition with a comedic tone, opting to roast the director as if he were Freddie Krueger. Oh, I love that, so I'm gonna say fact.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:20

Yes, I'm willing this into being truthful and I'm voting fact.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:24

I think this is a half-fact, but I'm saying fiction because I think it happened a little differently. Chris doesn't do the half facts.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:31

Yeah. You think that. I provide statements that are either truthful or non-truthful, and that's how truth works. So I don't know what to tell you.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:39

I'm saying fiction, but I may have seen something that implied something else happened.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:43

Okay. Well, it is fiction. The real story is much better. He didn't really want to audition for it. He uh was having a pretty rough day. He had to like walk in a lot of rain to catch a bus, and when he got there, the auditions had been running so far behind that he had to wait around for hours. So when he got in, the director said, Man, do whatever you want to do. And he says, Fuck you. And then he proceeds to cuss him out. Yes, a half-truth. Very interesting.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:09

I love that.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:10

Who doesn't like a job you can get by cussing somebody out? Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Hence the motivation to kick his ass all over Dreamland. Number two. Just as those auditions ran late, so too did the production, and tensions rose on set for a number of factors. As we mentioned earlier, this was partially due to being Chuck Russell's directorial debut, and also because he was working with a budget of four and a half million dollars and a script that required about $20 million to pull off the effects for. Feels like a lot of facts. Facts.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:39

See, this is where the partial truths come in because one number could be off and the whole thing's a lie. So I'm gonna say fiction.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:46

It actually is a fact, and this is a contextual fact, right? This is setting up the rest of the game. That tension also made for a really rough day of filming, as we mentioned earlier, for Patricia Arquette. The production was so behind they didn't even get to her first scenes until 4 a.m. By then she'd forgotten her lines. For number three. Another byproduct of the tension of that film production was Jennifer Rubin's dissatisfaction with the film. She was upset when she learned her character would ultimately be killed by an overdose and has long regarded this to be her least favorite film.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:15

Honestly, I'll go fact there because I'd be bum too.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:18

I mean, do actors, actresses really care? I don't know. Oh, I think so. They do. Uh, I'm gonna say fiction just because we've already had a fact.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:27

I'm going with fiction as well because I feel like she really enjoyed this character, and it's kind of a fitting way for her to go out because Freddy's that douche.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:35

Well, it is in fact fiction. Uh, she was actually told by some of her fans that her character, Taryn, actually helped cause them to quit drugs, and she's been very proud of that legacy.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:45

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:45

That's awesome. That that's the heartwarming content you're here for. Now, number four. Thankfully, those aforementioned tensions on set didn't impact every aspect of the production. In fact, it was actually fairly quick and easy to film the scenes of Joey fastened to the bedposts and Hanging over the pit because the set was flipped so he could stand the entire time. That would be really cool. Oh yeah, it feels like a fact. Fact. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:09

I'm gonna say fiction. I bet it was a bitch to film.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:11

It is fiction because it was a bitch to film. The set was flipped, right? So he was standing the whole time, but think about this. Because of all the delays on set, it took so long to film, and he had to be spread eagle for so long, he actually passed out and he's compared the experience to what he imagines a crucifixion would feel like.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:29

Oh god.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:30

Alright, now rounding us out here with number five, going back to that budget we discussed a few questions earlier. In the original script, one of the warriors dreams up a giant Transformer style robot to fight Freddy, but because of the budget, uh they couldn't film it. Fiction. I'll go fact just for fun.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:47

I'm gonna say fact because this movie was very ambitious.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:50

It is in fact a fact. Uh that sequence even made it to the storyboard stage before they realized how little money they actually had. Sounds like me. I think I scored zero tonight. No, you got the uh audition one, right? I cheated, so technically it doesn't count. I don't know. Did you cheat or were you informed? Who knows? But there you have it, folks. A nightmare on Elm Street 3 Dream Warriors has earned a universal slash, courtesy of our patrons in their monthly slasher picks. Now, while we certainly had a lot to talk about here, obviously it doesn't end here by any means. This movie has an incredible reputation among the horror community. Fans of the franchise have long regarded this as a favorite, so we want to know what you think. Keep in mind there are a number of ways you can reach out to us, starting with our website, hackerslash.com, and on our social media accounts on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:38

And if you are also simpin from my boy Freddie Krueger, you can reach out to our Hackerslash Hotline. You can leave us a voicemail at 757-606-0128, or visit hacker slash.com slash contact to send us an audio message.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:51

Or if you have some creative ways for us to stay awake, especially while Chris is editing this episode, you can send us an email to feedback at hackerslash.com.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:02

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SPEAKER_01 1:08:13

We'll see you next time, folks, and remember, it's time to stop guessing and start messing. Bye.