SPEAKER_01 0:04

Thank you for coming to my room, Dr. Sleeve.

SPEAKER_05 0:11

Greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hacker Slash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. Great party, isn't it? If this is your first time listening though, well, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack, a total joke, a waste of time, or a slash.

SPEAKER_00 0:29

Totally killer, pun intended.

SPEAKER_05 0:31

We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, we're rating these movies with a perspective we've all gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast. This week I'm joined by the Superfly Space Guy Mac.

SPEAKER_00 0:45

Hola Muchachos.

SPEAKER_05 0:47

The Gore Lover Alexis. Hey everyone. The cowardly creeper Ryan. Hiya. And the Scream Queen Paris.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

Alright, bitch child.

SPEAKER_05 0:55

This week we're looking at a 2019 film that serves as a sequel to what's considered to be one of the greatest horror films of all time. One we originally covered back on episode 10 of our show. Now, before we dive deeply into the libraries of our minds, we have some follow-up.

SPEAKER_01 1:10

You know, Chris, speaking of movies that are very well regarded, perhaps best of all time, we recently reviewed a nightmare on Elm Street 3, Dream Warriors. And this was actually chosen by our patrons, and they did a really good job because it was a universal slash amongst our team. Now, we wanted to hear what the greater audience thought, and you know, the results don't lie. Only 7% had the audacity to hack this movie, and 93% gave it a slash.

SPEAKER_03 1:37

Wow, that's pretty awesome. Feels good.

SPEAKER_01 1:39

Yeah, we have a comment from EC on Twitter who said, hot take. Nightmare 3 is the best nightmare movie there is. Far better than the original, and makes the rest look like failures. The Freddy in this film is unstoppable with the best kills in the series. Nancy seems like a solid character this time, and the rest of the cast is great. I have news for you, EC. I don't think that's a very hot take. I think you are in the majority with that. We have another comment from one of our patrons, Anthony, who said, It has taken me some time to compose what I want to say. A, I'm so thrilled that this movie is a universal slash. B. Paris questioning Nancy's graystreak and bashing the late John Saxon. Come on, man, you know better than that. Do I? C. My favorite kill in any horror movie is Philip's death. The music, the special effects, the tension, love it. This scene actually terrified me when I first saw it. Must have been eleven or so. Every time I rewatch this movie and get to this scene, I'm reminded why I think it's the best Freddy movie. D, what an amazing episode. Fantastic.

SPEAKER_06 2:34

Wow, thank you. We try. Sometimes we're okay.

SPEAKER_05 2:38

Yeah. I also love that like special little nod to the word compose, Ryan, because we even uh in that episode you were just so caught up on Nova Cascade and Dave from Nova Cascade, who had called in, he listens to us while composing, or rather decomposing, during the pandemic last year. Yeah. Oh, you guys are really cool with your wordplay. I get it.

SPEAKER_01 2:58

Speaking of Nova Cascade, we have a comment from them. They said cinema attendance had plummeted in the UK when this movie opened, and so had the prices. I probably saw this more than a few dozen times in its opening few weeks. I think it has just the right balance of humor and horror. It's very well paced in my opinion. Plenty of iconic moments and some stellar practical effects. My favorite of the series by far.

SPEAKER_05 3:19

Yeah, that feels like me going to the movie theater several times when the 2018 Halloween came out. Except I paid full price every single time. And I didn't regret it.

SPEAKER_01 3:30

And finally we have another comment from our friend Neil on Instagram who said, As much as this one is revered, it's even some people's favorite of the series. It definitely signaled the beginning of the end. Freddy started to become a stand-up comedian and picked up another annoying trait. There's a reason the Rick and Morty parody of him, Scary Terry, says bitch a lot. I never even thought about that. Have you guys seen that episode of Rick and Morty?

SPEAKER_05 3:50

Never watched the show. Wait, wait, I'm sorry. You did not piece that together?

SPEAKER_01 3:54

Well, no, I I got that it was I got that it was Freddy, but I didn't realize that he was saying bitch a lot because Freddie eventually just kept saying the word bitch.

SPEAKER_05 4:02

Oh my gosh. That's the thing.

SPEAKER_01 4:05

But now I love Freddie more.

SPEAKER_05 4:06

He said the thing, he said the thing.

SPEAKER_01 4:08

And that's our follow-up.

SPEAKER_05 4:10

Well, in keeping with highly regarded films, in 1980, Stanley Cooper gave the world his cinematic vision of Stephen King's novel The Shining, which explored the fate of the Torrens family as Jack, his wife Wendy, and their gifted son Danny care for the Overlook Hotel in the offseason.

SPEAKER_00 4:25

Now we mentioned earlier that The Shining was one of the first few films we covered on this podcast back when we first started, back before most of us, myself included, were involved with the show. Since we were covering a sequel this week, we actually revisited The Shining over on The Rewind. The Rewind is a patron exclusive series of bonus episodes that are an opportunity to revisit movies we covered in old episodes that have been archived from our main feed and also give us a chance to get the perspective of our present team. If you'd like to hear our thoughts on the film, you can find a link in the show notes that will take you to the episode on our Patreon. Fair warning though, there will be spoilers for The Shining in this episode.

SPEAKER_05 5:00

Now, in the decades spanning King's career since Kubrick's critical success, he was often asked about what happened to young Danny Torrents after the events of the novel, which he often pondered himself. King ultimately wrote and released a sequel to The Shining, which found an adult Dan Torrens putting his life back together after walking a similar path as his father, a path of anger and alcoholism. After finding sobriety though, he experiences a connection in his shining to a young girl named Abra, and together they worked to thwart a group of people hunting children who shine. While The Shining was crafted with themes of addiction, alcoholism, isolation, and confinement, King's sequel explored the journey of recovery. Now development for a screen adaptation began soon after the novel's release, but was fast-tracked following the success of 2017's It, which was the very first movie we covered on this podcast. Mike Flanagan was ultimately chosen to helm the project as its director, and King's previous experience with Kubrick and the rivalry that stemmed from the making of The Shining loomed over it. Now Flanagan worked to convince King they needed to make the sequel to the first film as opposed to a straight adaptation of the second novel, and in doing so he sought to bring an incredibly divided audience together. Those who were fans of King's original novel and those who are purists evangelizing Kubrick's film. This week we're talking about Doctor Sleep.

SPEAKER_04 6:20

Who's seen this one before? I definitely have seen this. Um when I heard it was coming out, I actually went and got the book, read the book, and try to finish it quickly and watch the movie.

SPEAKER_06 6:32

I'm here to impress you all and let you know that this is once again a movie that I have seen before watching for the podcast. Yeah. I know. Impressive.

SPEAKER_01 6:41

I recently watched The Shining for the first time, so it should come as no surprise that I had not seen this movie before either.

SPEAKER_00 6:47

This is one I wanted to see when I saw the trailer, but held off from seeing it because I knew it's kind of a limited thing. There's not going to be, you know, a shining three or anything that I can look forward to. So I I waited and held off. And I'm happy to say this was my first viewing.

SPEAKER_05 7:01

Yeah, this is something that I actually haven't seen either before this watch. When I saw the trailer, I was like, oh, I love Elon McGregor. Absolutely. Obi-Wan Kenobi, give me some more of it. But then I realized, oh, this is about the shining, and I didn't really like the shining. So uh I held off as well, knowing that it probably isn't a bad movie. I didn't like go into it with a lot of negativity, but I figured it'd be good to hold off until we actually covered it on the show. Now that being said, my expectations have actually shifted over the last couple years of what this movie would be. Primarily because looking at it now knowing that Mike Flanagan is the director for it, and knowing what he has done in his past with like The Haunting of Hill House, with Hush, uh with Ouija, Origins of Evil. He's done a lot of great work that I'm a huge fan of. So I figured, okay, if I didn't really enjoy some elements of The Shining because of Kubrick's direction, maybe I can enjoy a story with a director that I know I like. So I went into it with some cautious optimism.

SPEAKER_00 8:11

I until recently expected this to be a film version of the novel, like more direct, more true to the novel. And then you all corrected me. Uh, thankfully, I mean I had some positive thoughts about The Shining. I don't think I thought it was gonna be bad, you know, if it was a sequel to the movie, but I didn't really know much about what to expect about the film. I saw the trailer, which does keep things kind of ambiguous, um, and I just thought it was gonna be a good ride. I mean, you and McGregor is awesome, so I was looking forward to it for sure.

SPEAKER_06 8:40

You guys know I'm not a trailer person, so I'm actually pretty confident that the first time I watched this movie, I had no idea that it was related to the shining. I know that sounds dumb, but sometimes someone else picks a movie and you're just like, all right, we're we're here, we're watching Doctor Sleep. And I I'm pretty sure I was like, oh, it's the shining.

unknown 8:58

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 8:59

This time I went in expecting uh to be annoyed at how they chose to not change the runtime at all. That's what it mostly was like, really, you guys know how long the shining was and thought, meh, we'll do it again.

SPEAKER_01 9:13

Yeah, that did take nerve, Ryan. I felt similarly about that when I saw it. It's a bold choice. So bold. Truly, I didn't really have a lot of expectations for this movie. All I wrote down was new, good. So not a lot going into it. Um, on our rewind episode, we talked a lot about the different elements that were in the novel that didn't make it into the shining. Uh, and our patrons and anyone interested in our Patreon can go ahead and listen to that episode. I was expecting a lot of those elements that we talked about to have a stronger presence in this movie, but otherwise I really had no expectations and was kind of surprised by a lot of things.

SPEAKER_04 9:51

Yeah, when I first heard about it, super excited. I was like, oh my gosh, there's a part two, picked up the book.

SPEAKER_05 9:56

Yeah, I remember you saw the trailer for this sitting next to me. I I can't remember, was it for Halloween? It was like whenever the trailer first came out, we were in the theaters together, and you were like, oh my god, it's Dr. Sleep, it's Dr. Sleep. And I was like, Oh, the sixth month. Oh, wait, you mean it's the shining?

SPEAKER_04 10:13

That'd be me. Uh and I was super stoked because The Shining is, like I said, one of my top five movies of all time. And I had such high expectations watching it the first time, and I was surprised that it felt in line with what I expected. And watching it a second time, I wasn't sure um exactly how I'd feel. I know watching The Shining previously and recording, I was like new, knew I was going to pick up on um different cinematic elements. Um, this one was just going in kind of fun, but I was really, really surprised, even again watching this, at how visually entertaining and just how crisp and like just everything about this movie visually stood out to me. And I know we'll talk about more in the second half, but that's really what surprised me most.

SPEAKER_06 11:02

It's funny because that's actually like because we just rewatched The Shining, and The Shining to me is so impressive in its visuals. This one I was just kind of like, okay, like it's kind of, I don't know. I guess it's because it's what I expect from a movie that came out when this one came out. Exactly, yeah. Versus with The Shining, I'm like, man, y'all got some garbage in this era. You know, there's you there's some questionable things that happened in the 80s and the 70s. So you could go either way, and it's, you know, I don't know. I guess I was a little bit more impressed because of how well The Shining aged compared to this one. This one I was just like, yeah, it's cool, you know, it looks good.

SPEAKER_01 11:41

While watching this, I had a hard time classifying this in my own mind as a horror movie. It felt more like a um, maybe like a superhero movie, supernatural, like um I got like uh comic book vibes, specifically like Umbrella Academy energy. Um, so I was kind of like the whole time, I was like, I want more horror from this. And right as I wrote that in my notes, we got like something very horrific, and I was like, okay, keep it up. I like where this is going. Um but overall I think I was pretty entertained. I was entertained and engaged throughout. I can say that for sure.

SPEAKER_00 12:17

I found it to be a very entertaining watch as well, Paris. I have to say it does verge more on the side of supernatural thriller, which isn't a bad thing in my book. I definitely enjoy that kind of a flick. So it was it was entertaining through and through. It didn't feel like the shining uh with the pace though. So I know it was a long watch for Ryan, but it the pace is so completely different for sure.

SPEAKER_06 12:41

So let me clarify. I feel like they made a bold choice by choosing the same runtime or a similar runtime that's too long, but I I will say it does not wear on you the way the shining wears on you.

SPEAKER_01 12:53

I concur.

SPEAKER_06 12:54

And I started this dreading the runtime, and then once you get into it, you're like, oh, we're good, like two and a half hours, no trouble. So that I it's it's it's not even a factor here the way it is in most situations. The other thing, Paris, I I was in kind of the same shoes as you about like wanting some of the horror, but I will say, like, some of the types of horror that we got, I was like unprepared for. Like some of it's a little uh a little rough, you know, a little heavy sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 13:25

I have a feeling you're referring to my favorite kill.

SPEAKER_05 13:27

Several things. So, a question for you, Ryan, in terms of that runtime. Did you feel that way about it in it chapter two?

SPEAKER_06 13:34

The second time I watched it, yes. But the first time? Well, the first time it was Dolby, and I'm telling you right now, everything is good when you pay $20 to see it, okay? Like when they when the seat vibrates your butt cheeks, like it's just good. All right, it's just good.

SPEAKER_05 13:51

You don't want it to end, you're good there for like three hours. Got it. You know it. I struggle to get through the shining, and Mac, you're absolutely right. The pacing is so totally different. When I woke up in the morning ready to watch this movie, I didn't expect it to completely alert me. I thought that I was gonna have to like probably stop. I thought I was being overly ambitious, trying to watch it as soon as I woke up. I thought for sure I'd have to walk away, energize myself, and come back to it. But I found that the framework of this story and the journey that we go on through each of the characters and again the types of horror that are infused in it, I found myself actually entertained every step of the way, which is such a departure from the slow burn that is the shining. Not that I have a whole lot against slow burns in general, but this felt like it had all the feelings that I was looking for in the shining, and none of the needless abuse, right? Like, and there are some horrifically violent things that happen in this, but the soul of it felt really compelling, and I found myself really engaged the entire time. And I think one of the biggest surprises I had was I I tried reading this book beforehand. I got through the whole shining before we did the shining episode, and I got about a little bit more than 25% of the way through Doctor's Sleep, and I remember experiencing that novel and I was listening to it. So it was basically the the the format that it takes in in this movie where it's jumping from like different characters establishing everything, and I found it a little bit hard to follow, but a lot of the elements of Dick Halloran's backstory, there's so much in there that was so shocking that I found myself like cringing, waiting to hear, like see how that was gonna unfold. And I was surprised that this movie adapts the novel in a way that feels faithful to the soul while smoothing out some of the edges. And even though they took away a lot of that terror, there's still so much tension and emotion packed into this that I feel like I'm not missing anything, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_06 16:06

Yeah, I think I agree with you. There is like a uh smoothed edges is kind of like the right way to say it. Like it really does feel like I don't know, to me, this movie should be called The Shining. And The Shining needs a new title. The Overlook? Yeah, The Overlook. Because the the Shining in The Shining is like a small element of a man going crazy. And I know it's not supposed to be, but that's how it is in the movie. In this movie, this movie is about the shining, all you know, through and through. And it is very different. It's almost like, you know, like you don't want to prepare someone to watch this by saying, Oh, this is the sequel to the shining, because it is and isn't. It's like shining adjacent, kind of how we were talking about, like spiral is like saw adjacent. Um, I think it's like in a good way though. Like it, like, like you said, those smoothed edges are just it's a bit refined and uh, like you said, feels feels authentic. I don't feel like someone took it and like perverted it for you know the 2020s and you know made it a completely different thing and ruined it or anything like that. I don't know. It's it's impressive the way this was done.

SPEAKER_00 17:16

I completely agree. And this reminds me, this is honestly the thing that's surprising. So I mean I expected it to be good. No film's gonna be perfect, especially when it comes to Stephen King films, because nobody can put his brain onto the screen. If you've seen the Dark Tower movie, oh my gosh, such a completely different treatment of a Stephen King piece of work. So the Dark Tower, they were like, okay, this thing is like I don't know how many are in the series, like 10 novels or something, right? They could have made so much money off that for years, but instead they were like, let's kind of cover a couple things from a bunch of books and do it badly and push it out and try to make some money because King is selling like hot cakes right now. Oh, it was it it's not good. This movie was like, okay, we know the novel's amazing, we know the movie's amazing in different ways, we know most people are probably familiar with the film because it's such a classic horror movie. Let's let's nail both.

SPEAKER_02 18:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:14

And that was the thing that was surprising, is somehow they were able to get a balance of making it feel like a true representative of both.

SPEAKER_05 18:22

Yeah. So there are so many moments in this where I picked up on things that like were mentioned in Doctor Sleep that were true of the shining, or elements that are straight up from the shining, and it's like Mike Flanagan is rectifying what Stanley Kubrick did in some ways, right? Restoring balance to the universe of the shining. There are so many things in here that I found myself like my heart was filling with glee of like, this is what I was looking for.

SPEAKER_01 18:49

As somebody who has not read the books whatsoever, I can't say I felt really any of those things you all have described. They sound like great feelings. But while I was watching it, I was really just like, this is not at all what I was expecting. This is like an X-Men movie with Charles Xavier going around finding young kids that can shine, and like, I don't know, have like it was like an hour into the movie, and I was like, where are we going with this? Like, where's the horror of it all? I don't know what's happening. Um, and that was a little bit of a disappointment for me. No, I definitely was engaged and I was entertained, but I feel like it wasn't for the right reasons, or at least the reasons I wanted. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_06 19:27

Paris, there's this moment where they say, We're gonna go to this place where people shine, and that was like it's an X-Men movie. They're going to the school. It's literally what's gonna happen.

SPEAKER_01 19:37

The institute.

SPEAKER_06 19:39

Fortunately, they didn't do that. That's not how it went. But I can understand why you feel that way. This is a this is a unique section of horror. It's something.

SPEAKER_00 19:48

It is truly unique because it mostly feels like a thriller, but then there's moments, there's moments that you don't think that they'll do something because you're like, nah, they couldn't show that. They wouldn't do that. That's too horrible. And they're like, nah, we're going there, we're doing it, and you're gonna watch it.

SPEAKER_05 20:04

It's shocking.

SPEAKER_00 20:05

I don't find it scary, of course. I wasn't scared, but I feel like if you get into this and you hit this like crescendo, um, you're gonna be taken aback a bit, and it you might feel a bit frightened. Um it's it depends on who you are, of course, but uh it has those moments of of pure terror.

SPEAKER_05 20:23

Yeah, there this is a moment or a film rather that had me emotional and and it had me emotional because of so many different characters and different moments. But then I think about and I think I've said this right, like um in in a couple of the it episodes, as someone who has like I have a niece and I have nephews who are young children, and I think about them encountering any kind of circumstances like that are semi-traumatic, and I just can't help but hear or imagine that in my head, and it's so difficult to watch. So while this movie isn't frightening, I think there are parts of it that are certainly traumatic to sell.

SPEAKER_06 21:05

Chris, you make me so thankful that I am a person who's very good at putting things in little boxes. Okay, Dan Torrance. I can't be watching movies, okay, and be thinking about my my nieces and nephews. It's I just can't live that way. I would just be a melted pile of butter all the time. Like I would never exist. With that being said, there's some some heavy stuff that happens in this movie. I would say there's actually one moment that got me that was like a jump scare that I actually like on my couch middle of the afternoon, it would hit a little little little tense moment, you know. Otherwise, I don't know, not really, not really scary to me.

SPEAKER_04 21:42

This movie definitely I feel the dread in it, and I there were some really tense moments, but all in all, I wasn't like super afraid. I mean, I think they took elements that were in the first movie and made them more creepy, which I love. Um, but I definitely wasn't afraid.

SPEAKER_01 21:59

Yeah, I feel Like part of the reason that I also wasn't afraid during this movie is because the antagonists felt kind of I guess like diluted a little bit. They felt kind of PG13 in a way that I wasn't really afraid of them at all. It felt more like in the same way you would be afraid of like the witches in Hocus Pocus. You would be afraid of this band of antagonists, except Interesting. With a little bit more murder. I don't know. It was the way that they were portrayed and styled and designed and named, where I was kind of like, okay, you're like you're like a fluffy killer. You're not like an actual threat to me.

SPEAKER_05 22:35

Well, it's because you're not a child who shines.

SPEAKER_01 22:37

I guess. I mean, I was a child who shin. It has since dimmed.

SPEAKER_04 22:42

Did you not realize they were the cousins of the Sanderson sisters?

SPEAKER_00 22:45

I'm pretty sure they were. What's cool about the film though, while watching it, even though it I mean, it feels very different from The Shining, it doesn't feel like obviously you said it's not a slow burn. Um it doesn't feel like straight up we're gonna try to terrify you. It has this thriller feel to it, but it kind of reframes the shining for me. Like it doesn't feel like, hey, we made a sequel to The Shining. Here you go. It's almost like, remember The Shining? That was like somebody's memory of events, and here we are in real time now in the present. It's like the Shining is this other real thing that's not necessarily concrete. It's like a character's recollection of it, and now here we are in the present day, and here's here's what actual reality is. And they do they do such a great job of giving you some clips from The Shining that aren't clips from The Shining, which is really cool. Um, and it it almost makes those moments from The Shining feel new again. I mean they are new, but uh it it's I don't know, it changes my perception of the movie it it's related to and it makes it feel different. It it's not you know, it's not we made another one, it's its own thing.

SPEAKER_05 23:57

Yeah, and I think that's the beautiful thing about this movie in particular, because I'm generally not a fan, you know, we think about like Friday the 13th, the 2009 reboot of the franchise. Technically the events of the first film are still intact. They you know you kind of see them in in played back in flashback uh in the beginning of the movie, and you have like recasting of different characters and and voiceovers, etc. And I'm not someone who's generally a fan of stuff like that, because for me it's like once something is done and it's iconic, you can't really try that again. But what this movie did was it it set out to recapture the soul of something in a way that I think in a way that I think that really pulled it off in terms of taking the best bits without being overwhelming. It's a product that like stands on its own two feet as its own work while paying honor to and paying homage to, but still doing something totally different with the spirit, right? It feels like a true evolution and continuation of the story versus a retread. This is what happens when you drink alcohol and you got psychic problems. You know what I mean? Like it's it felt so different in all the right ways without disrespecting the first film.

SPEAKER_06 25:17

Yeah, I think you guys pretty much said it all. I think there's some elements of this that are maybe less original that maybe feel like other things, like you know, we're kind of joking about like X-Men and stuff like that, but there are there are some elements in the movie that are not necessarily story-based and stuff that do kind of feel familiar, but generally speaking, I think it gets originality points, especially for the way it portrays such an iconic film.

SPEAKER_04 25:42

Yeah, it's definitely something, Chris, that you mentioned can stand on its own two feet. I think if you even hadn't heard of The Shining or read, you know, Doctor Sleep or had any sort of reference to these movies, you'd be able to watch this and still appreciate it for what it's worth. And I like a sequel that can do that because you have a bigger audience that could be grateful for the movie.

SPEAKER_01 26:04

For me, this didn't feel the most original. It felt very familiar, obviously, for a lot of the reasons I've already mentioned X-Men. Also, Miss Peregrine's Home for Peculiar Kids or Peculiar Children, whatever that movie is. It also felt like very Stephen King. It felt like almost like a blender of Stephen King stuff, especially with like the naming of the characters and like their relationships and stuff. And I was like, okay, this feels very familiar to me, but in a comfortable way, in a way that I enjoyed. Um, I think the way where it really became an original take is the way it implemented The Shining into its ending, and I found that to be like really impactful. Like there were certain shots where I was like, wow, the the simplicity of this single frame and the way it's able to evoke so much emotion based on what you've already known from The Shining. I found that to be like one of the stronger elements of the movie.

SPEAKER_00 26:51

Oh gosh, I agree so much. And the structure of the film and and when we get to the ending reminds me of it so much. Like it's got the Stephen King heroes journey in it. When you look at it, when you extract it, you can literally compare it to it. Obviously, it's not the same. There's not like a band of of friends and all that kind of stuff, but when you think about like the you know, the call to action by this outside force that you get in like the hero's journey, like you kind of get that a little bit. Um, you know, moving towards the end when things come back around and you have to go back to where things started, and um I don't know. It I think it feels familiar because it follows a successful framework though, and I think that makes the ending work really well. Like it's it's not necessarily what you'd expect, but it's what it's what you want to happen. You know, we we like patterns as humans, and I feel like it follows a pattern that we like and we and we want.

SPEAKER_06 27:46

Yeah, Stephen King really does a we have to return to where it all began. Like that's really his shtick.

SPEAKER_01 27:52

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_06 27:53

It's many people's shtick, many famous epics. But Stephen King, that's his like bread and butter. You know what I'm saying? That's why he's so good.

SPEAKER_04 28:01

It was really good. Um, I thought the ending, like, you know, bringing certain elements back into um this part was awesome, and kind of reframing a little bit of the ending from the original movie, The Shining, I thought was pretty cool too. So I don't know, it was just really interesting, and um, yeah, I liked it.

SPEAKER_05 28:22

I I truly don't know that it would be possible for me to be more excited and elated about this ending because of how it I think rectifies a lot of mistakes that were made in the original Shining's ending. And they're not like egregious mistakes, obviously it didn't ruin the movie, but I felt I I walked away from this feeling whole for a story that I I've come to care about in its written form. But I will say it is different than how it ends in the actual novel, which I found interesting. Oh.

SPEAKER_01 28:56

Yet again.

SPEAKER_05 28:57

I ruined that for myself. So if you think you know, you have no idea. Well, obviously we have uh some mixed reactions here among the team, so let's see how things shake out for us in terms of our ratings. Now consider your scores for a moment, and and while you're cooking and stewing and brewing, Alexis, how many people died in this movie?

SPEAKER_04 29:16

We had a whopping 18. That would be uh if you do the hacker math, that would be 16 more than the shining.

SPEAKER_05 29:26

Of legal age.

SPEAKER_04 29:27

Of legal age.

SPEAKER_06 29:29

And what about the animal report? We did have one adorable animal in attendance, and they're not on the animal report, which is great news. We're all good.

SPEAKER_05 29:36

And truly one of the most professional animals, honestly.

SPEAKER_01 29:39

Oh my god, a true star, that one.

SPEAKER_05 29:41

Yeah, an employee of the year, for sure. Let's go ahead and dive into those ratings. Doctor Sleep from 2019. Was it a hack or a slash?

SPEAKER_04 29:50

Anything related to the shining, the Stephen King universe. You have to try real hard to make this bad, in my opinion. Um, or for me to not like it. It has great acting, it has some gore that's appropriate, I think, for this sort of time. It's a great story, and it's something that, you know, if someone likes a thriller, they can watch, if someone likes horror, they can watch, you know. So I appreciate that and how well-rounded this movie is, and it's definitely getting a slash.

SPEAKER_06 30:16

So for me, this movie is a really interesting one. I think like I kind of mentioned before, I actually really dreaded re-watching this movie because I just remember watching it the first time and thinking, wow, this is so long. And so when you tell me I have to sit down and watch another almost three-hour movie, it's two and a half. But you know, I don't, I don't get excited about that. I I dread that a bit. And I also am not a person that loves to re-watch movies. So I wasn't excited, and then I got into it and remembered, like, oh yeah, these characters are really thrilling. They're really people that like I want to pay attention to and and get to know and watch them succeed, hopefully, or die. Some of them die. But there's also this thing that that is kind of the the X-Men element of it where this movie really toes this line of introducing this group of bad people into the shining universe. And like there's a there's a dangerous territory of like giving me enough information to know who these people are and what they do, and then not giving me too much information to like drown me in details that I don't care about. And it's it's close here. It's close. And some of these little things kind of like were not my favorite. However, I will say this is a slash. It's a really good movie, it's really enjoyable. I hate the name of it more than anything in the world because Doctor Sleep doesn't make sense for this movie, and it should just be called The Shining. Honestly, swap the fucking names because the Shining will put you to sleep. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Anyway, it's a it's like a an easy watch in a way. Not that everything is easy in it, but it's like like Alexis said, a lot of different people would find something in this movie that they like, and I think it is really, really impressive the way it took things from The Shining, things from Dr. Sleep, the novel, and really made them into one beautiful little thing. You know, it's a it's a whole piece, it's not missing anything. I don't I wouldn't say I'm insanely in love with it, but it is a slash.

SPEAKER_00 32:25

I'm I'm loving the vibe. This movie's a slash, so it's entertaining. That's first of all, it's an entertaining watch for two plus hours. Like, I don't feel like I'm gonna fall asleep while watching it at all. I remember pausing it at one point just to get a snack, and I was like, oh my god, there's like an hour and a half left, and I've already seen so much because it is jam-packed with details. I don't think it's too much. I think it's it it's it shows that there's many more little bits of info that could have been thrown in there had this been made into a miniseries. And I think it probably could have been made into a miniseries, because why not? You know, there's so much so much rich detail in Stephen King novels, but let's think about it. There's way more kills than The Shining. There's way more gore than The Shining. I'm talking about them in the movie, so more gore, more kills, better characters in in certain ways, and weaker characters in other ways, but I I think you have some pretty strong characters in here, and of course, Ewan McGregor's in it. So obviously it's a slash. Just saying. No, it it it's a it's a great watch.

SPEAKER_01 33:24

I agree with a lot of what everyone's saying. It was definitely entertaining to watch. I will say I was bored in some parts, and once again, I can come up with at least 30 minutes to cut out of this movie. Uh it feels kind of like Stephen King is one of those authors that might be like a little bit too close to the project and like refuses to let things get cut out because they mean something to him. But as somebody who like has no reference point for any of this stuff, I don't need all of it. But that being said, this was like very X-Men, very Umbrella Academy, very like comic book superhero, almost like American horror story coven vibes, and those are all things that I really like. So I I really did enjoy this movie. Um, but I would not recommend this as like a horror movie. There are some horror elements, but if I'm recommending horror, this isn't even gonna be in like the top 100 movies I name. So it's gonna get a soft hack from me. It was entertaining, but it wasn't an entertaining horror movie. It's an entertaining, supernatural movie.

SPEAKER_06 34:18

I'm very surprised. As a person, Paris, who is very into supernatural otherworldly things. I'm impressed that you even I understand where you're coming from, but still very impressed that you gave it a soft hack. I thought you gave it a slash, but rude.

SPEAKER_01 34:35

If it was just like a movie podcast, I would probably give it a slash, but it's a horror movie podcast, so I can't in good conscience give this a slash.

SPEAKER_05 34:43

Well, Paris, I don't know that I could uh disagree with you any more than I than I than I do. Because I didn't really get the X-Men vibes, but it's also because I don't really care about X-Men. I feel like this movie does a lot with its world building and creates characters that I love, that I hate, that I'm like lukewarm about. It gives me dynamic range. It's not just like these are the good ones, these are the bad ones. Like there's some great morality every once in a while. And I feel like it's a lot richer for that. This movie makes me appreciate some elements visually of The Shining a little bit more. Not that I like Stanley Kubrick, not that I like that movie, but it makes me feel better that it existed and walked so this film could run and so that Mike Flanagan could aspire to do what he did. You know, find you a man who can do both. He was able to bring this these two worlds together and really bring some elements back from the novels to make it feel whole again, right? To bring the soul back into it and to make it shine a little bit more. And I think one of the best things about this is the way that we get some of the recreation of the elements of the shining, we get it in a way that feels so good. And obviously it's not Shelly Duval, you know, obviously it's not like the original cast of ghouls or things like that, but the spirit is there and it's done in such a masterful way that I feel like I could watch The Shining if he did it. I really do. And when I think about this movie and the richness of its characters, it reminds me of this quote that I read. And I actually I'll drop a link in the show notes to this article, but it basically is talking about Mike Flanagan as an up-and-coming director. One of his one of the actresses who work with him had this to say There aren't oftentimes a lot of female characters are taken care of the way that Mike takes care of his women. There's a lot of running around in your underwear, there's a lot of screaming, there's a lot of making dumb decisions. Mike Flanagan takes great care of his female characters to make sure they're real people and not just either Ripley from Alien or Shelly Duval and The Shining. They're somewhere in between. They're humans who make human mistakes. And the fact that Stanley Kubrick's film is like the other end of that spectrum, I think says a lot for how that work was created and how it is has ultimately been received over time. And this movie and how beautifully it's executed had me walking away feeling so good, but also so good about like the production itself and it feeling like people love to be a part of this. It felt like a movie that people were invested in. So it's 100% a slash. And I don't know about revisiting the shining anytime soon, but I for sure could stand to watch a super cut. Give me like the highlights of the shining tacked on to the front end of this, split it up into a few different chunks over time, and I'd absolutely watch it. That is an interesting idea. Well, I'm also the person who wants Halloween with a little bit of Halloween 2 from 19 and from the 1980s cut up together and then tacked on to Halloween 2018. So maybe I just like to suffer. Who knows?

SPEAKER_00 37:51

I think what would entertain me would be a special limited three-part mini-series where they splice it into the show, right? So you're getting this as like the main show, and then the bits from the shining kind of come in as the backstory. So maybe like the first episode's modern time, the second episode we slip into you know, going back to the original events, and then the third episode we wrap things up, and I could see that working pretty well too.

SPEAKER_05 38:16

Ooh, now that I like.

SPEAKER_01 38:18

This definitely did feel made for TV.

SPEAKER_05 38:21

Okay, that's such a stretch.

SPEAKER_01 38:24

That is.

SPEAKER_05 38:24

That's such a stretch. And have you seen the TV work that Mike Flanagan has done? His made for TV is made for cinema.

SPEAKER_01 38:30

It felt like a season of American horror story that couldn't air past 10 p.m. It was like we're gonna air this at an 8 p.m. time slot and not a 10 p.m. time slot because it's it's soft.

SPEAKER_04 38:41

I think eight's pretty prime too, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_01 38:43

Oh, prime for sure. Smash hit, but not the kind of like deep darkness that I want from like an American horror story or something like that.

SPEAKER_06 38:51

I think you're going a little too hard, but I know where you're coming from. Paris.

SPEAKER_05 38:56

Well, because Paris is so going so hard, Dr. Sleep from 2019 has racked up four slashes and one hack that I'm sure he won't be apologizing for anytime soon. Now you can find this movie streaming on HBO Max, so check it out. Join us in the second half so we can all unpack our feelings. See you in a bit.

SPEAKER_00 39:44

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SPEAKER_04 40:58

Well, it's interesting because there are some very graphic uh scenes in this movie that I think we talked about a little bit um before the spoiler break that were very intense, um, involving especially a child. I'm still giving it low because I think when you take the average of the entire movie, so almost three hours, I'm giving it low. Bold low? Like a low gore score, yeah. Why not?

SPEAKER_00 41:25

Like low as in like made for TV horror.

SPEAKER_04 41:29

Okay, whose section is this?

SPEAKER_00 41:30

We're clarifying. We're just clarifying.

SPEAKER_04 41:33

I guess it is low. Okay. To me, there was only one memorable scene.

SPEAKER_00 41:37

The the corpse of a toddler.

SPEAKER_04 41:39

Oh, yeah. To me, that's CGI. Okay. All right. For the average viewer, I will make a play on this and we'll say medium for all of you guys. To me, it wasn't graphic enough. The baby scene was definitely not, it looks so fake. When Rose, the hat, her hand gets stuck. There's a few other things too, but um, there are 18 deaths in this movie, a lot of them by gunshot. But I was wondering what was y'all's favorite death of this movie?

SPEAKER_05 42:08

Mine, right off the bat, because it's mad emotional. It's not the child being murdered, but it's the OG child being murdered. Jeez. It's Dan Torrance, like his him meeting his fate in the boiler room, which again I love because the boiler room burning down the overlook is how the original shining ends. To have gone and do that, to face his demons and meet his fate, and then also meet his mom again in that reunion when he couldn't really comfort her as she was actually dying in real life. Ewan McGregor, when they did that scene, they like panned to Wendy, he had to run out, the child actor had to pop in and just like stand perfectly still, and then before they uh panned back, and I just the emotional power of that. There are so many good deaths leading up to it, but that was like the final punch where I was like, fuck yeah, okay, I care about the shining now.

SPEAKER_06 43:02

Wow, what a turn of events. For me, my favorite is Snake Bite Andy, and it's for several reasons. One, because she's hot, two, because she was about to kill Dan. And then three, because Billy came in and saved the day. Now, the events that occurred immediately afterwards, horrible, where she made Billy kill himself. The power of the tongue in that one is uh it's too real. But when she died, I was I was like, Yes, and also no, please don't go.

SPEAKER_05 43:33

It was shocking. In the novel, Billy makes it much further and actually helps save the day at the overlook. And apparently, so does the ghost of Jack Torrance. I know, I know, you gotta read and find out.

SPEAKER_00 43:46

Well, I'll say my my favorite kill in this one was Crow Daddy because it was such like a weird like twist of an action movie slash thriller situation. Like, I can't believe you don't have your seatbelt, and then boom, like shot through the windshield. But it was still satisfying because I don't think any of us were expecting him to be taken out in that way. And I thought it was just it was ingenious. And so I like that.

SPEAKER_01 44:10

Okay. So uh for me, my favorite kill was the child. Um I I don't know if anybody knows Jacob Tremblay, but he's like truly such a peach. And like he's uh one of the youngest, I think he won an Academy Award. He was at least nominated for it for Room. Um but he's like so talented, and when I saw that he was in this movie, I was like, oh cute, he's gonna be like one of the shining kids, and he's gonna be all throughout this movie. And like at this point, we're like an hour in, and I'm like, okay, where's the horror? And then they absolutely just kill Jacob Tramblay in the most like violent, sad, uh horrible way. And I was like, oh, okay, so they're gonna not give me anything, and then they're gonna give me the absolute most. Okay. And for me, it was like the the point in the movie where I was like, okay, I am gonna be invested in this. But then after it kind of trailed off and didn't give us anything that impacted me the same way that that did. So it feels like it kind of peaked pretty early as far as kills go.

SPEAKER_05 45:04

God, his screams are haunting.

SPEAKER_01 45:06

Oh my god, it was so sad.

SPEAKER_04 45:08

I'll jump to my uh favorite death before I actually reconvene on that. Um, because there's some awesome facts I have for you guys on that. My favorite death is gonna be definitely Rose the Hat. I don't know, something about bringing all these villains back from you know OG. I was like, yes. And you know, when you see those boxes open, it was just like bam. I wasn't sure how this was gonna end this movie, and it it was just a very satisfying um ending for me, and I think she deserved it.

SPEAKER_05 45:37

They're not special, they're starving.

SPEAKER_00 45:41

Do you do you think that this movie earns the title 13 ghosts more than the the movie 13 ghosts? Absolutely. Yes, totally, totally.

SPEAKER_05 45:49

I'm sure if we count, there is probably about 13 in that shot. Baker's dozen.

SPEAKER_04 45:54

So on to the gore, you know. So, Paris, your favorite death of the baseball boy. Mike Flanagan said that the murder of him was the most difficult thing he had ever had to film. His performance during this was um during the first take, was super intense, and it pretty much surprised and scared all the actors, including um Rebecca Ferguson, who played Rose the Hat. So she was so horrified after that scene going through it. She was trying to stay her lines, she couldn't get them out, and she was stammering. Um, so after that, when the scene was over, uh, Jacob jumps up, covered in his fake blood, high-fives his father, and you know, goes and get a snack. And everyone is just still shell-shocked and traumatized by seeing all this, which is crazy because I feel like that's exactly how we all felt while watching this uh kill. Oh, that's that's so adorable that he like jumped up in excitement about it. He's like, This is my job, I'm gonna do it right, I know what to do. He I he's a very well-trained uh everyone's shook. A child actor.

SPEAKER_01 47:00

But I also feel like, you know, I don't know if I said this on the podcast, but we watched a movie and I was like, you know, in in newer films, you don't really get to see children die anymore. Like, I feel like that's become like a no-no, that's like a taboo. And then I feel like we watch like three different movies in which a child dies in the past like four months, and it's just been like a lot, but it's always so impactful because it's so much more sad when a child dies.

SPEAKER_06 47:20

Yeah, whatever you think, it just becomes reality, Paris.

SPEAKER_00 47:24

I hope not. Okay, let's talk about the deaths in this movie because there's something interesting that happens. The smoke.

SPEAKER_05 47:31

This is not smoke, dude. Oh no, it's the essence that the sexies are stealing.

SPEAKER_01 47:38

Your essence.

SPEAKER_00 47:40

Right. So that that steam, that smoke coming out of them, their souls leaving their body, whatever that is, was my least favorite thing to look at on screen. And it's so good though. It looks amazing, it's a beautiful effect, and I like the way it looks. I just it took me out of the story when I was watching it.

SPEAKER_05 47:56

You know, it's interesting that you that you bring that up. I was wondering if it was soul or essence, and then realizing like, okay, it's their shine, but I guess it's also their soul. What I yeah, what I didn't vibe with in terms of like the how that looked was when Ewan McGregor's was suddenly yellow, right? It just looked like bad breath, and it reminded me of Casper for some reason and the ghosts.

SPEAKER_01 48:19

Oh, when the ghosts had that green breath.

SPEAKER_05 48:21

Yes. I think that was.

SPEAKER_01 48:23

Exactly what it reminded me of. They also just desperately needed to learn to hotbox because a lot of that was just like escaping into the open air. If it's as precious as they say it is, we're letting it get loose.

SPEAKER_06 48:32

That's very true. Such an important, important detail.

SPEAKER_00 48:36

So while while the the the steaminess wasn't my favorite, my favorite part of this, oddly enough, was when we got to look back at the overlook. When we got to see this recreation of the overlook, it's just so beautifully done. And I like that it doesn't have to look exactly the same as the shining.

SPEAKER_05 48:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:57

Like, yes, the hotel looks like the hotel, but it does look like the 2019 version of it. It looks like it's it's been around it seen some days.

SPEAKER_06 49:05

I was sad by its wear. Oh. Like I wanted it to be fancy overlook, you know?

SPEAKER_05 49:10

So I loved that even within the flashbacks of that, what they didn't go so hard into the casting that they wanted to get people who looked nearly identical to either Jack Nicholson or Shelly Duval. And I love that because even in the continuity, right? Like Danny can recall these events, but I think after a while of not seeing someone, especially if you don't have photos regularly, your memory of their face begins to change, right? And and you have these like vague ideas of what someone looked like, but you can't always solidify it. So it made perfect like logical sense to me, as well as like evoking that feeling. I think my favorite part of this movie visually was actually when we get the shots of traveling to the overlook. They actually used the footage from the shining and they degrained it, color balanced it for day for night, and then digitally added the snow. And it's just so fucking good. Like the shots are stunning, right? It's one of the it's it's one of the great moments from the original, but to see it executed that way, it just felt like this. Okay, we're going home, but we don't look cheap along the way. And the music.

SPEAKER_06 50:24

Ooh, the music.

SPEAKER_04 50:26

Visually, I loved any time um Abra or uh Rose the Hat were using their shining. It was just really awesome to see um them both travel and use their shining different ways. And very big fan of Rose the Hat in Outer Space.

SPEAKER_00 50:46

That was cool.

SPEAKER_04 50:47

It was so awesome, just like the twists and turns of every anytime they're using the shining and the way the camera is moving. It's just like I have no sense of um direction, which is something that I got from the first film, you know, inside the overlook hotel. So you you never know, you know, there's no constraints or anything in the hotel. Doesn't seem to make sense, and so does these like topsy turvy, like time not not traveling, time traveling, but you know what I mean, like this sort of traveling between minds, which I really liked.

SPEAKER_01 51:18

Okay, Alexis, that was actually my favorite visual as well, because there are certain things that you experience in life that like nobody's ever really successfully articulated in a movie or TV show, but this was like the most accurate depiction of astral projection I've ever seen. I don't know if anybody's ever like attempted or experienced astral projection, but this is exactly what it is.

SPEAKER_05 51:39

Do you have a technique to share? Oh, I actually read a book about like you do with the telekinesis hands.

SPEAKER_01 51:44

Um It's usually like either you're meditating or you're about to go to sleep but you're not that tired. I don't know. There's lots of books about it. But specifically, if you've ever had that feeling where like you wake up and you there's like there's like momentum with you waking up and you either like jolt upright or like you just like move in some way, like out of nowhere. It's that same thing where she was like flung back into her body and then like knocked right off the top of that caravan.

SPEAKER_04 52:07

Are you telling me like when I twitch when I'm falling asleep, I actually was out of my body and came back in? Yeah. What? Because I do that every night.

SPEAKER_01 52:16

Most likely.

SPEAKER_04 52:17

Oh, where are you traveling? Into the further. I hope somewhere where my work is done between my nine to five and I can balance everything.

SPEAKER_05 52:27

Well, now don't confuse astral projection with the multiverse. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:32

I mean, they're not un they're not not related. But yeah, if you've ever wondered what it feels like, that's exactly what it feels and looks like.

SPEAKER_06 52:39

Well, I don't want to bring muscle spasms into the situation here. I don't want to rain on anyone's parade. That was a very cool scene. My favorite visual element, I have two of them. One is Dan's boxes in the middle of the maze, and it's really, really cool the first time we see one, but then when they're like all lined up and and opened, and all those different little snippets of that that we get, I loved those so much. And the other little teeny tiny thing is the eyes in this movie, both the like evil glowing like iris thing that we get, and then we have Abra and Dan, like you know, with their eyes like rolled back in their head kind of look. All of that really does it for me. Like when they do cool things to people's eyes in movies, I am here for it a hundred percent. This they did it lovely. I loved every second of it.

SPEAKER_00 53:30

What about the scene with everyone in the true knot with their glowing eyes like looking over?

SPEAKER_06 53:35

Yeah, so creepy.

SPEAKER_00 53:36

That was cool.

SPEAKER_06 53:36

Sorry, the true knot, is that what it's called? Yeah, that's that thing that I was talking about, how they towed the line of making sense of what they were and what they weren't. I don't know who they were and what their talents were capable of.

SPEAKER_05 53:48

They just called themselves that at like the initiation, but they didn't bog us down with the whole history of them.

SPEAKER_06 53:54

Yeah, yeah. They left out just enough detail for me to not be stressed by it.

SPEAKER_01 53:59

I also really enjoyed the visual of those boxes, Ryan. And I don't think it's a coincidence that you and I are both rather skilled at compartmentalization.

SPEAKER_06 54:08

It is truly one of my greatest talents. And I have a few of them.

SPEAKER_01 54:13

Just put the feeling in a box and put the box in a maze and then leave the maze.

SPEAKER_06 54:17

I'm so good at it. Why uh what so simple.

SPEAKER_05 54:20

You mentioned the eyes rolling in the back of the head, and it just takes me to honestly the entire like third act, like once we get to the overlook, just about all of that is probably one of my favorite moments altogether in the film. But specifically drilling down, like you have Abra and Dan with their eyes rolled in the back of their head. Um, they're projecting this whole scene for Rose in the maze, and then once the jig is up and Rose starts ascending the stairs the way that Jack and Wendy did so long ago, that was such a cool moment. But afterwards, we get a point where the ending is starting to put back together the pieces of the puzzle that Stanley Kubrick kind of swapped around and reconfigured in his movie. And that's when Dan goes to attack Abra and he's haunted by the overlook. And in the original book, in The Shining, Dick Halloran doesn't die, he saves the day, but there is a point where he picks up a weapon and he's like momentarily possessed and about to harm Danny and Wendy. And so it becomes this like really terrifying thing, and I loved seeing that represented here. Now it could have happened in Dr. Sleep, I'm not sure, but to see that and just remember what that felt like reading that uh in The Shining, it was just so good. It's like, you know, when I left you, I was but the learner, now I am the master. A lot of Star Wars parallels here with, you know, Ivan McGregor being a forced ghost in so many ways now. But to then get into that boiler scene, right? I know I said it was my it was my favorite uh death in the film, but the entire conclusion of this made for such a perfectly paced scene that even with all its sequences, right, like the sum of all of its parts to me felt like perfection.

SPEAKER_00 56:16

I have some thoughts about that scene because immediately Ebra's walking out and I'm like, um, she's gonna freeze to death and no one's gonna find her. Then I realized this massive thing is on fire. So, first of all, she's gonna stay pretty toasty. And uh obviously, you know, she got home safely, so that's good.

SPEAKER_06 56:35

The entire like final bit where I realized that like Dan isn't gonna make it. I spent most of the time thinking, but she's not old enough to drive yet. How will she get home? Same.

SPEAKER_05 56:47

He knew this would happen. She'll just contact someone else long distance who can shine. Hey, can you call my mom?

SPEAKER_01 56:53

Just shine an Uber.

SPEAKER_06 56:55

Oh that would be great. Did you get the Uber XL? No, I got the Uber shine.

SPEAKER_00 57:01

When you drive the driver.

SPEAKER_04 57:02

So I love the um kind of the setup for this, which is the uh grocery scene where uh Rose the hat is in there and they're kind of looking at each other uh through the mirror, her and Abra. And then the you know, glass breaks, and then um she ends up finding her. And I really love that because you could see these like filing cabinets, and to me that was so cool. And then the parallel of like she's in my head, and it was just like that entire I know that's like a longer scene or a group of multiple scenes, but just whole like that like sequence is really, really awesome, and just because I wasn't sure what was happening, and I was like, Oh wow, this is her brain, and then now she's she thinks she's in her brain, but no, the other girl's in hers, and just hearing the flapping too, it was like uh it kind of made me cringe.

SPEAKER_05 57:50

Yeah. So, question what's your favorite scene? Chris and Alexis, the whole movie, really, it's all great.

SPEAKER_06 57:57

Like a third of it, if not all of it. Okay, but it was so cool. Like she's like in there, Abra's like rummaging through her files, and then she gets back to the all the knot, and she's like, I don't even know what she I don't even know what she saw, I don't know what she found. Because you know, it takes like one second for someone that's shining to be in your brain and find out all your secrets and all your things. Like it was very cool.

SPEAKER_01 58:19

On a semi-related note, uh, in the Hannibal Lecter books, Lecter always describes his brain and like why he's able to be so intelligent as like this cathedral full of all this information. So seeing that represented visually for uh Rose was I was like, Oh, that's Hannibal Lecter's brain with all of the art knowledge and pretty much every fact ever tucked away somewhere for him to access at a moment's notice.

SPEAKER_06 58:41

Yeah, I could totally see how those would align.

SPEAKER_00 58:43

My favorite scene, I guess maybe it's a combination of of two scenes, and it's gonna seem really strange considering everything that happens in the film, but that's Dan going to AA. And like one of the one of the earlier scenes I really like because he talks to the doctor and doesn't like try to keep it a secret. He doesn't try to dress it up anyway, he just uses the shine and just like talks to him. And he's like, Yo, here's your phone. You left it, or his watch, I guess. You know, here you left your watch on the on the soap thing, like no big deal. And the doctor's like, okay, and then you know, obviously he was right. So that was great. But I think when he gets to the point where he talks about you know, hitting eight years and basically telling them not very much about his origin uh in in the overlook or his dad, but like lets on a little bit about how he how he feels about it and how he feels about what he went through. Um, I think it was it was just a great progression for the character, all the way from childhood to adulthood, and how he's like had to deal with his alcoholism and why he feels like he is an alcoholic or became one. Um, so it was just I don't know, it was like an added depth that was really nice.

SPEAKER_06 59:53

So powerful. Yes, and I have a tiny little almost like insignificant uh favorite scene for this movie, but it is Abra at her little birthday party with the magician who's doing real bad magic tricks, and she's just like, I can do magic, and she's just like, I don't know. This will take us into the next thing, which is talking about characters, because Abra has this energy in this movie that is electric, and it it is one of the best things in this movie, in my opinion. The way that she carries herself, the like joy and energy and hope that she has during this entire movie is absolutely amazing and and roped me into every single scene she was a part of. So, like that little birthday scene, and then of course the spoons on the ceiling and the freaked out parents. That's one of my favorite little scenes, but most importantly, Abra is my favorite character in this whole movie. She's the one, she's what we needed here.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:55

I mean, talk about treatment of women in in as characters in this film. It's fantastic. So Abra's intelligent and independent and curious and knowledgeable and fun. It's just like everything that makes a really interesting character. And she's young, but she's like not weak, and she's not scared of what's out there. Yeah, and that's it made her a like really great to watch. And like the performance, of course, by the by the actor was fantastic, like absolutely killed at his abra. I mean, at whatever age that they are, but but yeah, I mean you just get this this independent person on screen. Yes, they're young, like we get that. Yes, they're new to some of their you know, magic in in the uh birthday scene, but by the time they're a teenager, it's like, dude, I'm not scared of anybody. Um I literally have magic.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:48

Yeah. I also love that she operates with a strong moral compass and remains steadfast in her conviction even when the world is telling her not to. And I absolutely love that, especially when you think of the perspective of like Dan has been telling her to dull her shine and just like stay out of trouble. Like, don't make a scene, don't cause a stir, just get by. And think about like how many times kids in life are talked to that way. Think about how many times people grow up and um you're you're growing up with like particular means or in certain areas, and you're just like, okay, well, I just have to survive this and just like not make a not make a fuss, and and maybe I don't want to stick out too much. And I absolutely love that she is the foil to Dan. And as he's been reckon reckoning with his powers and figuring out how he can best use them, she's not shying away from it, and she sees it more as a strength rather than a burden that she has to live with.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:46

Can I bring this back to Star Wars though, where it really belongs? Please. Because in reality, here I think what we're seeing is obviously Obi-Wan, that's you and McGregor. We get it. Um, and then we're seeing a young Anakin in Abra. So Anakin, like obviously, like as a younger Anakin, like still believes in the good side of the forest and everything, but like has that like lurking momentum, it's building and being okay with a little bit of the darkness, right? And I feel like if they made a sequel to this, Abra would have to be Darth Vader. Like it has to go sour at some point with that level of strength and like being okay to cause that harm.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:22

She doesn't have to be Darth Vader because she doesn't have to make bad decisions. Because what she also possesses that Anakin did not is a strong sense of like emotion and power, but also emotional intelligence.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:36

That's true, because empathy. And that's super strong with Ebra.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:41

So Dr. Sleep.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:42

So I have I have thoughts on the doc uh as as well on Dan.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:47

Why is he called Dr. Sleep?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:49

So um if you remember, he's in the hospice and he's like He's killing him. He's the doctor that lets them go to sleep, as he says, the permanent sleep.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:58

What?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:59

Yeah, you didn't really he doesn't kill them.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:01

Yeah, that old dying man called him Dr. Sleep.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:04

Yeah, he eases them into it. Thank you for coming to my room, Dr. Sleep. Right. So they're they're dying, right? They know they're dying. They're in hospice, and the cat's telling them, I can smell it on you, it's time, and they're worried and they're scared, and he's there to ease that. So he's he's using his shine to help them go to sleep.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:22

I stand by my same statements from before, which is that this is the worst movie title. It has nothing to do with the movie.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:31

Yeah, it was not a huge element of the film.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:34

Absolutely nothing.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:36

So, what was even more confusing to me when I was listening to the book, and I I could have it out of order in my head now, but the first time I heard the word sleep, it was Snake by Andy telling the man to sleep in the theater. I'm like, wait, is Doctor Sleep about this random chick in a movie theater who's like kind of seducing this man and also trying to murder him?

SPEAKER_06 1:04:53

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:54

I thought that too.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:55

Yes, killing pedophiles. We we stand a queen.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:59

I never got about that. She was a queen.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:02

But then also becoming a person who hunts children. So yeah, yeah. No, she wasn't. Same, same, but different.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:07

Snake bite Andy, queen. You know who you'd think I would be obsessed with, but really didn't do anything for me? Rose. It's Rose, the hat. First of all, if your hat is like a main thing about you, get the fuck out of my face. Also, I was like waiting for it to be like a Frosty the Snowman thing where it's like her hat is the source of her power because she like snatched it up real quick that one time, and then it didn't end up being that. So the whole time she's just wearing this like dumpy bucket hat that does nothing for her. I feel like the actress is just a little too nice to convince me that she's evil. She was doing super evil things, but I wasn't like convinced that she was like this dark sided, sinister woman.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:42

You're literally complaining about this being like 8 p.m. network TV, and then you're saying you want her magic to be in her hat.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:50

No, I was expecting that. I'm glad it wasn't, but I was like, What's with the hat? Why is the hat such a thing? And there was no reason, there was no answer. What's with the hat? Do they Explain the hat in the book, Chris. Tell me you have an answer.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:02

I don't know about that. But it didn't make very specific choices with a wardrobe. So a lot of her accessories are trophies from children that she's killed. So like things that are in her hair, bracelets, etc.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:15

Ooh, I love that.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:16

She also has like a needle in her hat that is used to dig really deep underneath children's fingernails to get all the little bits of steam that she can.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:25

Oh.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:26

Really a functional and decorative uh ensemble.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:29

Just like Stevie Nicks.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:31

What I what I like though, even though some of their costumes were ridiculous. I mean she wore the hat when she was wearing a sweater and leggings. She had that hat still on. It didn't work.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:40

What?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:41

She was sitting on top of it. No, you can wear a hat.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:43

It was stylish.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:44

But you can't wear that hat. I'm just saying it didn't work. The hat rarely worked. Right. But they all had that like that piece of wardrobe or trinket or whatever it was that like kept them tied back to the time you know that they're from or a time in their past because who knows how long they've been out there. Maybe it's in the novel, but like each one of the true knot had like that thing going back in in history, which is which is kind of a fun thing because we don't get to learn a lot about each of them, um, in the in the movie at least. But they've all been around for quite a while and seen some stuff.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:16

Yeah, that movie's coming on at 10 p.m. the knot.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:19

I just have one last comment to make about the characters. Um at first when I saw that they were doing like the kid, the young Danny from The Shining, and like the Shelly Duval, I at first I was like, I don't know about these new actors. They weren't really giving it to me in the way they were supposed to. But specifically the mom that portrayed Shelley Duval as Wendy later, as she like got more screen time, I noticed that she like really did the work as far as like character study went, and she was really nailing it with emulating Shelly Duval's speech patterns. And then it got to that final shot where she was like at the door, and you couldn't tell me that wasn't just a direct clip. They like nailed that. So props to that woman who had a much smaller part in this movie because she found her way into that character in a way that made me forget that that wasn't the original character.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:08

I agree, Paris. It's very interesting because when I first saw the scenes with you know Jack and Wendy and everything, I was like, I don't really know if this is what I want to do. Like, are we really gonna have somebody try to look like Jack Nicholson? You know, how well is this gonna go? And I think they perfectly balanced the amount of time they were on screen, the things that they were saying, the different like parts that they were in where they became impactful, not overwhelming, and not like they were trying to redo the shining. And it worked out really, really well. If you had had them on screen for even, I don't know, like I would say a few more minutes. Like if I got a few more minutes of the fake Jack Nicholson, I don't think I would have been happy with it.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:51

Ooh.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:51

It worked out really well with what we got.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:53

There are a few more minutes of the fake Jack Nicholson because they recreated the red bathroom scene. It's I think in the director's cut, or at least in the bonus footage on the DVD.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:03

Okay, I did miss that bathroom, so not gonna lie, I could go for that, but I don't know if I would want to I didn't like that scene in the first movie, so I don't really need that scene again, just the bathroom.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:15

Fake Jack Torrens, old Jack Torrents. The dialogue between he and Danny is just so powerful. And for Danny to be speaking to his father and just like you know, really telling the story about like how he wasn't really there for Wendy, talking about how he feels about drinking, especially now that he's on the other side of his sobriety. And then to hear Jack's perspective of like the mind is a blackboard and this is the eraser, and these are the burdens that you and your mother put on me. It's enough to make a man go crazy, you just want to drink, and then you know Danny's talking about a man takes a drink, a drink takes a drink, a drink takes a man. I am not someone who's interacted very much with alcoholism in life, but that felt really, really powerful and meaningful, and I don't know how it how it hits for folks who have or who are battling with that on a regular basis or who have loved ones who are battling with it, but that that one in particular it humanized Jack in a way that the original shining novel did that the original movie did not, and I absolutely loved that being brought back in Jack's character.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:30

What an amazing job they did with this though, because the the actor portraying Jack literally would just like watch the original performance over and over and over again to get like speech patterns and and mannerisms, not do like a mocking voice, but get like important things to to convey that character, and so that's good. But to get the hair, they literally had to like shave their head and wear a wig to get as close as possible. But they didn't want someone that was just like a perfect rip-off of Jack Nicholson who can't act.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:03

He had the eyebrows, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:11:05

That's the important part.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:06

It really is. I know we're gonna get to the worst and best parts of this film later. I'm just gonna knock mine out real easy. The worst part of this movie for me was that man's hair because it was fine from the front, terrible from the fucking side, too shaggy.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:19

Well, I think Jack did a great job, but I I think for Dan, that moment that you mentioned, Chris, is so powerful, even more powerful considering the fact that you and McGregor is a recovering alcoholic. Oh so this is I think a role and a character that he could absolutely identify with.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:34

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:35

And I bet you when he said those words, he felt it inside, like deeply.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:39

Yeah, also this is kind of related to characters, kind of scenes, the moments where Dan is switching back and forth between the overlook having control over him and him being Dan, where there's the last moment after he stops attacking Abra and she dips out and he's just standing there and he's normal Dan, and then his face just completely turns into like this face that's like completely reminiscent of Jack Nicholson and his crazy eyebrows and everything. It's so weird to watch, like, I don't know. It I I don't know how much of it had to do with like effects or makeup that was added throughout the process or something, but there's just a quick moment there where he completely changes and it's very impressive. Dan did some amazing work here.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:29

So I am the only person who hacked this movie and I am required to say the best part about it. However, I'm not gonna do that because I feel like I've said plenty of nice things about this movie. So I'm going rogue and I'm gonna say the two worst things. One, that bar scene you guys are talking about. It wasn't for me in The Shining, it wasn't for me when they recreated it in this movie. I'll say that it was better this time around than it was originally. Still, it was a solid 10 minutes where I was like, cut it out, get it out of here, we don't need it. We're trying to build a climax here. But for me, like the number one worst part of this movie was the random shootout. In a movie where they're giving you like we all have powers and like supernatural, cool stuff. For there suddenly to be like everyone has three different guns and we're all just shooting at each other wildly in the forest. I did not expect that to happen. So many people died so quickly, and I was just like, that felt odd. That felt out of place for this movie. Did anyone else feel that?

SPEAKER_04 1:13:24

Oh, I definitely felt that way. That was the worst part for me. Is there's all this, you know, supernatural, and there's a lot you can do that it was a shootout. Um, and Dan was the one shooting most of the time. Um, so that's why I was like, oh, this is really interesting that this is the way everyone goes out, yet they have all these powers, and I would have liked to have seen like a little bit back and forth um on that. Instead, I feel like they just saved all that for when um Dan is with Rose and all that energy went into that, which I don't I don't hate, but I just it it seemed cheap.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:58

So you mentioned earlier things already feeling like an like an X-Men movie, but I feel like if we added in a you know psychic hands battle between everyone with a shine, it would have been full on Professor X a hundred percent.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:16

Mac, you said exactly what I was thinking, which is I agree that the shootout is weird, and at the same time, Paris would be here complaining about the magic fight a hundred percent. Oh yeah. I have a tiny little worse part, and it is so dumb, but it drove me crazy, and it is like maybe the very last scene in the movie where Abra tells her mom that dad's okay, and the mom is just like good and walks away. It's literally like the the most heartless thing. Like this woman, I believe lost her mother and her husband, and like thought her kid was kidnapped. I'm sure it was like the worst week of her life. She definitely didn't know that her child was gonna be okay when she answered the phone and just said, I love you, and hung up. And then she's like trying to give her like some comfort, like, oh, I was talking to Dan. You know, things happen after you're gone and uh he's okay, and and dad's okay. And the mom just just almost no emotion, just good, good for him. I imagine her mom's probably numb at this point. Sure, but like we get such a whole feeling at the end of this movie. I just feel like we could have just had a little loving moment where she smiled and and hugged her daughter. Like, that's really all I wanted. And maybe that's a little romantic or romanticized, but I don't know. I was it just stood out to me, and I was like, Okay, mom, like never mind, I won't tell you how dad's doing anymore. Just go be lonely, bye.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:51

So if Paris got to choose a worse part and hack the movie, that means I get to steal the best part from Paris.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:59

Go off, King.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:00

Is that how that works?

SPEAKER_04 1:16:02

No.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:03

No?

SPEAKER_04 1:16:03

No, but go ahead. Who makes the rules here?

SPEAKER_00 1:16:06

We're doing hacker math here. So the one plus one equals whatever I want it to. I'm in control. Reality is would I make it? I'm gonna bring balance to the force, okay? That's that's my goal here. I think it's kind of hard to find a best part. You know, the the hardest part to watch was definitely when Dan's going through the real bad stuff in the beginning. Like that's really hard. With the you know, the the woman that ODs and then her kid, and he just leaves them and they're dead. And I'm like, dude, you just basically killed them, not directly, but you know, indirectly. That was that was probably the hardest part.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:43

Did it take her money, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:16:44

Yeah, and it's gonna take her money. It's like, dude, that kid's gonna die. And you're like, yo, let me get that $15 trying to get a bus ticket.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:51

When you're drinking, that's how it is.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:54

That's true. But I don't know, I think the best part for me is it's all human-related. Like the psychic powers are really cool and everything, but it's it's him really linking up with his best friend, and that kind of being a thing throughout the whole film. You know, it's it's kind of a I don't know, it's kind of like an old school best friend name to have somebody named Billy be your best friend, but that works, you know, that works for him. But their friendship kind of becoming a thing was something that I really enjoyed watching, and I think maybe it's a credit to both actors as well, because they're both really amazing actors, and that's what made it so hard to see Billy go later in the film. Like that hurt that because we knew that he was like doing his best. But when he when he goes to him and he's like, All right, dude, like settle in. You're not gonna believe anything I'm about to tell you, but it's true. And he's just like, Got it, let's do this thing. That to me was like the best part because he hadn't told him anything yet for eight years. Didn't tell him, Hey, by the way, have uh have a magical power, basically. And then he's just suddenly like, yo, what's up? Let me break this down. Uh, we got a psychic battle coming up, and I need your help. And he was just like, Cool, ride or die, let's do it.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:00

And could you ride or die like Billy?

SPEAKER_06 1:18:02

But please don't let him die by psychic manipulation. I spent this entire movie thinking, Dan has to die, or else he's getting arrested for all these murders, bro.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:11

So I was actually deeply concerned. I'm like, I really hope Dan doesn't get charged with kidnapping. And then I realized he doesn't have to worry about it because he's never gonna fucking leave the overlook.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:22

Kidnapping, murder, like he's murdered mad people at this point. Everybody's dead, all the people he cares about. He stole a child.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:30

When they were digging up the child's body, I was like, please don't get caught doing this.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:33

Yeah, he's gonna get charged for that. Definitely the killing of Abber's dad, Billy, everyone. With all of that being said, I do have to confess that I'm not really looking to watch this movie again. Mainly because I've already seen it twice and it's just not my shtick to keep watching movies over and over. But maybe in like 10 years I'll be like, oh, Doctor Sleep, that movie they should have called The Shining. I'll watch that.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:55

Yeah, I feel like this doesn't have the same rewatch ability as the as the Shining. So I don't know what it is about this movie. Um, I don't know, maybe because it just the Shining has a place in my heart and this is just adjacent to it. But um, I definitely would watch this again, probably give it to someone who hasn't seen The Shining and see what they think, and if they like that, okay, here's the OG story now. Here's what happened. Yeah, this is the pre-story.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:30

I have to say the two and a half hour runtime will absolutely be serving as an obstacle to my rewatching of this movie. I'm just like I don't have the time. Always okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:40

So here's um I'm gonna approach rewatch value a little bit differently. I'm gonna say if it's been a while since you've seen The Shining, whether it's been a couple years or a couple decades, but you have a fairly good memory of it, jump, jump directly to Dr. Sleep and watch it. If you haven't seen The Shining, controversial thought here, watch Doctor Sleep, then watch The Shining. And I'm not usually a fan of seeing things out of order, but again, I think like if you think about this as here's real life, and then there's the memory of what happened that caused it, it's gonna be like way more interesting.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:10

So here's what I want. I want you and Alexis to put on your Sunday v. And I want you to knock on every door in your neighborhood and say, Can we tell you the good word about the doctor's sleep? You're both out here evangelizing, watching that one first instead of the shining, which I'm all here for, by the way. Uh, but I think you do make a good tandem since she also recommended it.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:27

I recommend it, but not in that order.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:29

Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:29

I just meant if someone, because the Capricorn and me cannot watch anything out of order.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:35

No, no, that's why you watch Star Wars episode four. Then you flash back to two and three, forget one, and then go five-six. It's machete order.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:43

That's what we need here is the machete order for for these two films. We need someone to do or splice them together into a miniseries.

SPEAKER_06 1:20:50

As a side note, you're also gonna need a new job because you're gonna get fired for missing so much work if you try to watch both of these movies.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:56

Yeah. So here's the thing. I don't care to ever really watch The Shining again. I think I have said I'd die happy if I didn't. However, this movie has just enough shining in it for me to feel like I watched The Shining Again. So I feel 100% good. Um, but I absolutely will be re-watching this. I think if there's ever someone who has the audacity to try to force me to watch The Shining Again, we're starting with this one. So then we can enjoy the memories of The Shining a little bit more. Now, obviously, we've unpacked a lot here tonight. There's so much more to discuss and to learn from. Obviously, there there are differences from the novel, there are hidden things in this movie that are connections to some of Stephen King's other works, but let's see what Mac has up his sleeve for fact or fiction.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:44

Number one. When Aszy, the cat, hops on the desk to lead Dan to the hospice room with Dick's force ghost in it. Dan puts down a December 2018 issue of Mad Magazine featuring the Grady sisters on the cover.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:56

What fiction? Not sure how to feel about this. They did something very similar in The Shining, so that would be cool, but I don't think it'd be appropriate. So I don't think they did this, so fiction.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:09

So this Easter egg does sound plausible, but then also, was Mad Magazine still out in 2018? Yes. And if so, why would there be a shining reference on the cover?

SPEAKER_05 1:22:19

Because the shining is incredible pop culture.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:22

So I'm gonna say fiction. Well, we all had some good guesses due to some interesting reasons. I will say there was a December 2018 issue of Mad Magazine featuring the Krady sisters, but that's not what he put down. He actually puts down the same January 78th issue of Playgirl that his father had in The Shining. That's a gag.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:41

Also, he somehow mysteriously gets interviewed for a different fucking job in a different fucking state that's exactly identical to Mr. Ullman's office from The Shining? Bullshit.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:50

Oh my god, same office, right? I thought the same.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:52

Yeah, same office. That was my favorite little Easter egg. I loved it. I was like, no, they're not gaslighting us. Like, how the fuck do they expect us to not notice this or explain this? How dare they?

SPEAKER_01 1:23:02

I gaslit myself. Synchronicity.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:04

I guess that was my worst part.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:06

I was like, there's no way I'm picking up on a reference to the shining right now. Wow. But you did it. I did. We did it.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:12

We did. Number two, Jack Torrance was a school teacher prior to being an unsuccessful writer, I'm gonna say. He definitely was not successful. You know who else was a school teacher? Danny Lloyd. And you and McGregor's parents were too.

SPEAKER_06 1:23:24

Sounds like a fact. I'm gonna say fiction just because last time it was right.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:28

Yeah, I have no idea who Danny Lloyd is, but I'll say fiction.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:31

Same. Danny Lloyd played the addition the original Danny and the shiny. Oh, okay. For that child.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:37

His real name was Danny.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:38

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:39

And Jack Nicholson's real name was Jack.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:41

Mm-hmm. And then they got Shelly DeVolve.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:43

They should have just named Wendy Shelly.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:45

They were they were bored.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:47

So this is a fact. Hopefully none of them branch out into writing novels in isolated hotels, though.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:53

Ooh. But Danny Lloyd does have a cameo in this movie at the baseball game. Really?

SPEAKER_00 1:23:59

He's watching the game.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:01

There's a YouTube video that actually like draws a circle around him, makes it very apparent which one he is, and then some of his students uh actually commented on it, like, oh yeah, he's so cool, he's great, but also don't ever ask him about the shining because he's not gonna tell you shit.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:17

Anyone want to take a guess as to the lack last time he acted?

SPEAKER_05 1:24:20

The last time he did the shining.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:22

If he's a teacher? Trick question. 2019, Dr. Sleep.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:27

True. No, so after the shining, he stopped acting. And a call from the director actually got him on board with this gig, which is pretty sweet, you know? It's like a major reunion almost.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:38

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:39

Number three. Did you spot it? The cursed mirror from Oculus makes an appearance in this film.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:45

What? The Lass or Glass. Um, I believe that because there is some sort of connection. I think Mike Lanigan was a part of that movie. I believe so. But I might be wrong.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:56

He was a creator of that story and the director of that movie.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:58

So yes, it was fact.

SPEAKER_06 1:25:01

Um I wanna go fiction. I feel like they stayed real pure on this.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:05

Don't tease me, Mac. I want this to be true. And honestly, with the movie being so long, it's definitely possible that they snuck that in somewhere. So I'm gonna say fact.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:14

Alright, some so good some good instincts here because the mirrors hanging in the hallway on the way to the gold room as Dan approaches. This is a fact.

SPEAKER_06 1:25:21

Wow. I'm not mad at that. That's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:24

That is pretty cool. That mirror definitely would have had a stint in that lodge with its impressive resume that it had.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:30

Oh, definitely. Do you think it used the overlook as a reference?

SPEAKER_01 1:25:34

Oh, absolutely, for all of its hauntings.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:37

Maybe the overlook is what cursed it. Honestly, probably.

SPEAKER_06 1:25:41

Maybe Mike Flanagan made that story so he can just put that mirror in every movie he makes.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:46

Oh man, just Easter eggs all over. Number four, channeling the efficiency of the visionary Stanley Kubrick himself. The shootout scene in the woods took over 60 takes to film.

SPEAKER_06 1:25:56

I feel like that's there was a lot of people and a lot of moving parts, so I'll go fact. Gonna say fiction.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:01

I'm also gonna say fiction that felt loose and chaotic. And you didn't have to look too closely at any of it, so they could have gotten away with anything.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:08

Well, I have no idea how many takes it took, but I made that up, so it's a fiction. However, it did take two full days of shooting. It's a lot of work and a short amount of time.

SPEAKER_06 1:26:16

So maybe a fact.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:17

Maybe it's 60, maybe it's 130. I have no idea. I just pulled it out of the thin air.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:22

So it might be a fact, yeah. Things I've learned.

SPEAKER_06 1:26:25

Nothing.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:25

Good. That's the goal here. Number five. Most of the overlook hotel had to be recreated from careful digging through stills from the shining. And set design took over eight weeks to painstakingly create it.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:36

I'm gonna say fiction because I mean there's a lot of scenes in the hotel, but there's not that many.

SPEAKER_06 1:26:43

I'm gonna say fiction because I actually think eight weeks is too short for the amount of effort it would have taken to rebuild these things, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:52

I like your reasoning, Ryan, but I also feel like maybe that's where all the budget went, so maybe they did do it in eight weeks, so I'll say fact.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:58

These are some great guesses. So Mike Flanagan was able to procure the blueprints from the Kubrick estate. So this is actually a fiction because it only took around six weeks to recreate the Overlook sets.

SPEAKER_06 1:27:08

I'm sorry, Kubrick owns the blueprints? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:13

Oh, of course he does. Obviously, he had to own everything.

SPEAKER_06 1:27:16

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:17

Yeah. Right. And bonus round number six here. The poor little ghost toddler was not CGI. It was an animatronic puppet.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:26

Fact. Creepy enough, fiction.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:28

That felt fiction-y, and that baby was CGI. Well, you're wrong. It was fact.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:33

Ew.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:34

Yeah. Mike Flanakin apparently called it RoboBaby on set.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:38

Robaby.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:39

Full on Robo Baby. Hey, guess what? That's been fact or fiction.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:43

Well, thank you for that rousing research, Mac. We've pulled off a few shockers here, but perhaps none more shocking than the Doctor Sleep earning four slashes and one hack, which is perhaps related or connected to uh rating that the shining got. You gotta listen and find out. Now while we've certainly had a robust discussion here, it doesn't end here by any means. We want to know what you think.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:05

So keep in mind there are a number of ways you can reach out to us, starting with our website, hackerslash.com, and on our social media accounts on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter.

SPEAKER_06 1:28:13

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SPEAKER_00 1:28:28

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SPEAKER_01 1:28:34

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SPEAKER_05 1:28:49

We'll see you next time, folks. And remember, our beliefs don't make us better people. Our actions make us better people. Bye.