SPEAKER_05 0:04

Millennials are telling the economy of Antonio Bay. They've invaded with a avocado toast.

SPEAKER_06 0:14

Greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hacker Slash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. This is KAV Antonio Bay, California, six minutes after midnight. If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack, a total joke, a waste of time, or a splash.

SPEAKER_02 0:34

Totally killer, pun intended.

SPEAKER_06 0:36

We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, we're rating these movies with a perspective we've all gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast. This week I'm joined by the Superfly Space Guy Mac.

SPEAKER_03 0:51

Yes, I'm weird.

SPEAKER_06 0:52

The gore lover Alexis. Hey everyone, and the Scream Queen Paris.

SPEAKER_00 0:56

Do you know the difference between Flotsum and Jetsum?

SPEAKER_06 0:59

The people have spoken yet again, dear listeners, as our patrons have voted for the movie they wanted us to cover this month. Before we get down to business though, we have some follow-up.

SPEAKER_00 1:08

I have some follow-up for the patrons, and it's that y'all got a lot of nerve getting two picks in one month. This was a twofer. You're clever, I see you. Anyway, let's talk about Spiral, a movie that we recently returned to theaters to all go see. Truly, it was a mixed bag for us. You know, nobody felt like so strongly about it, but we were all kind of like, we could see both sides. Um that is not the case for our poll results. I we asked our friends on Twitter and on Instagram, and we got a lot of votes, but surprisingly, only 10% of those votes were hacks. The rest said it was a slash.

SPEAKER_06 1:40

That is really shocking, especially considering a lot of the the responses and reviews that I saw to this about this movie beforehand. So maybe this is one where the further we got away from its release date, the more people went into it with a negative mindset. Maybe the more they were pleasantly surprised.

SPEAKER_00 1:58

That's certainly possible. Let's listen to some comments. Anthony on Facebook said, So I watched Spiral in Theatres twice. It's a good movie overall, but I disliked it for the same reason I didn't like Season of the Witch. Imagine how disappointing it would be to go into a movie called Halloween 3 expecting to see Michael Myers for him to never show up. That's how I felt through this entire movie. Had Spiral been a standalone movie, it might have been a slash.

SPEAKER_03 2:21

That's a valid point. But I feel like they tried to, you know, do their part in like naming it Spiral and like from the book of Saw, you know, not just Saw 9 or Saw 10 or something.

SPEAKER_04 2:31

Yeah, there's a little bit more gimmick, I feel like, on a Season of the Witch, which is like one of my favorite Halloween movies, even though it doesn't have Michael Myers in it, but I do like it.

SPEAKER_06 2:42

In a world where the events of Saw took place, other people doing other things that are tangentially related.

SPEAKER_00 2:49

That's true. But also, Anthony, why did you see it twice if it wasn't a slash? I want to know. Follow up with us, please. We have another comment from one of our patrons, Tony, who said, Now I will admit that this was an entertaining movie. Didn't scroll on my phone or start cleaning, I was entertained. But I'm with Alexis. As soon as Shank took Banks' phone, I knew. It was very predictable and there was no mystery. But the kills were good, the new puppet was great, and I actually like Rock's performance. I'm giving Spiral a soft slash.

SPEAKER_06 3:16

A gentle slash for a gentle film.

SPEAKER_00 3:18

I don't think any of the Saw movies could be described as gentle.

SPEAKER_06 3:21

I think a lot of people would say this is weak sauce compared to the other Saws.

SPEAKER_00 3:25

This is weak sauce.

SPEAKER_06 3:26

See what you did there, and I like it.

SPEAKER_00 3:28

Okay. Finally, we have another comment from one of our patrons, Darren, who said, I found Spiral to be enjoyable but fairly forgettable. I really liked the pacing, and Chris Rock's performance was solid. The twist was incredibly disappointing, which did drag the movie down as a whole for me. Spiral gets a soft slash.

SPEAKER_03 3:43

Ah, it seems like the soft slash is the uh slash of choice for most of our listeners.

SPEAKER_00 3:48

Yeah, while they mostly slashed it, I don't think any of the slashes were emphatic.

SPEAKER_06 3:53

Not anywhere as near as enthusiastic as Mac was saying this was the greatest Saw film ever made.

SPEAKER_03 3:58

I stand by my comments. Come at me, bro. I'm just saying.

SPEAKER_06 4:01

I'm here. I'm at you.

SPEAKER_03 4:02

And it's still the best Saw movie ever made.

SPEAKER_00 4:05

Maybe Saw One is better, but I do also want to take a moment to acknowledge one of our newest patrons. Carlin, thank you so much for your support. Uh, if you have any hot takes, give us a call. Send us a message. We'd love to hear from you. And that's our follow-up.

SPEAKER_06 4:18

Well, speaking of those dear patrons, they voted in this week's film is a John Carpenter classic. Two years after introducing the world to Michael Myers and Lori Strode, Carpenter and Deborah Hill introduced the world to a story that was inspired in part by a film featuring monsters hiding in clouds, a foggy trip to Stonehenge, and a real life nineteenth century shipwreck. This film serves, in some ways, as a reunion for that 1978 Halloween casting crew, as many key actors and production team members came together once again to bring Carpenter and Hill's vision to life. This film explores the mysterious events that surround the small coastal town of Antonio Bay on its 100th anniversary. An anniversary which also coincides with a mysterious shipwreck. In 2005, Carpenter and Hill were credited as producers on a remake that sought to modernize their 1980 film. The remake was Greenlit after only 18 pages of the script were written. The film would go on to be generally loathed with a 4% Rotten Tomatoes rating and a reputation for having a poor script. We'll see how things turn out here on this show, however, because there are bound to be some surprises along the way. This week we're talking about both versions of The Fog.

SPEAKER_03 5:25

Now the original film was nominated by our loyal patron, Anthony, from Canada. He called in and left a message for us, which we're going to play in two parts for you. One part here in the beginning and another when we return from our spoiler break. Now roll the tape.

SPEAKER_01 5:40

What kind of fog moves against the wind? I fell in love with horror when I was about four or seven. I am the fucking youngest or seven children, and when we were all young, my poor floor. One of my best friends' children has adopted me as a big brother. I call Lila my big sister. I turned my only use because big black filmy horror films, and recently I shortered drunk carpenters the fog.

SPEAKER_06 6:36

I'm so excited to share the second half of that call once we get back from our spoiler break because we actually get a score from both Anthony and Lila.

SPEAKER_07 6:44

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_06 6:45

Incredible stuff. It's a little bit spoilery, so we're gonna hold off for now, but I'm I'm stoked to share it with you all.

SPEAKER_00 6:51

That's so cute to like let your kids take turns like having their own moment for the weekend, and then everybody else has to watch it.

SPEAKER_04 6:57

Oh, it's so good. I don't know how many kids I'm gonna have, but I definitely want to do this with my kid or kids. This seems so cool. I was kind of like tearing up a little bit.

SPEAKER_06 7:06

You are truly goals, Anthony. Now, obviously, this is a film that Anthony holds near and dear to his heart, hence his nomination. But who among us has seen this before?

SPEAKER_03 7:16

This was my first time watching anything foggy, whether it's 1980 or 2005.

SPEAKER_04 7:21

Or seeing foggy mirrors?

SPEAKER_03 7:23

This was my first time hearing about the term fog. I actually didn't know this existed.

SPEAKER_04 7:26

Are you freaking kidding me?

SPEAKER_03 7:28

I'm joking. But it is my first time watching either Fog movies.

SPEAKER_04 7:31

Interesting. Um, I've seen both of these movies, surprisingly. I thought I didn't, but then once I started rolling um on the movies, I definitely was like, oh yeah, I have seen this.

SPEAKER_00 7:42

I actually saw the 2005 fog in theaters, probably with my mom. I was 14. But like most movies I saw in the 2000s, I did not know that this was a remake of something, so I had no idea there was an original until I watched it for this.

SPEAKER_06 8:00

Like Anthony growing up, you know, with a lot of siblings watching horror movies on the regular, this 1980 version is one that I watched a ton with my siblings, and it was right up there with Halloween and Black Christmas as in it having a regular spot in our rotation. Obviously, Jamie Lee Curtis, for as prominent or non-prominent of a role as she plays in this, this definitely has a special place in my heart. I don't know that I love it with the same vigor and passion as Anthony does, but the 2005 version was a one where going into this episode, I'm like, uh, I actually don't know if I've seen this uh until the second it started, and I was like, oh shit, yep, I've seen it. It certainly wasn't John Carpenter's The Fog. But what were you all expressing going into it?

SPEAKER_00 8:45

So normally I will always watch the original and then a remake. I don't know, it feels like the correct way to do things, but because I had already seen The Fog, albeit decades ago, almost two decades ago, um, I was like, you know what, I'll watch the remake first and then I'll watch the original. I don't really remember much of the remake, um, so my expectations were loose and vague. Um, but I didn't expect so many things from the original. Like, didn't realize it was John Carpenter, was shocked and elated to see Jamie Lee Curtis on the screen. So my expectations were were definitely not prepared for what we had.

SPEAKER_03 9:23

It was confusing figuring out what to expect. For the 1980, you know, I I like John Carpenter movies. I like that Jamie Lee Curtis is credited, but the trailer just didn't look that promising, so I just didn't go into it expecting a masterpiece. For 2005, it's 2005, literally the mid-2000s, the thing I complain about all the time. It's a horror movie remake happening in the mid-2000s. We've got Tom Welling, we've got Selma Blair. I was expecting basically Smallville and Smallville level of cheesiness.

SPEAKER_06 9:53

Which I absolutely love because I've been really heavy into Superman and Lois lately. I never got into Smallville, but it makes me want to go back and explore it.

SPEAKER_04 10:01

I was getting those same feels, um, Mac. It was definitely I knew this remake was gonna be something that the other remakes of its time were. So like Texas Chainsaw Massacre, like all of those. I was like, it's gonna be highly filled with teen, teen drama, like fake, like super fake stuff. But you know what? It's gonna be a pretty movie because it's updated. Um having seen The Fog, I think going this into this time I couldn't remember if I had seen it, but I definitely was expecting like a typical John Carpenter movie, um ladies horror, which I am learning to love because of Chris. Um but yeah, so that's all that was my expectation for both movies.

SPEAKER_06 10:43

That's totally fair. I think one of the things I remember fondly about the fog is how atmospheric it is. And there are a lot of moments that stand out in my memory as being singularly haunting in some ways, not like in a s in a scary way. For the 2005, it it's interesting that you bring that up about like the Texas Chainsaw Massacre, things like that, because I I found myself realizing how largely forgettable I found this movie at the time. Not that I disliked it in any way, but really it just being something that didn't catch my eye in the big wave of horror remakes that we got. The Texas Chainsaw Massacre stands head and shoulders above the rest in terms of its fidelity to the spirit while also giving us a modern update, while also giving us a little bit more interest in the dynamics between the characters without going so overboard. But I found that this time watching both of them, the 1980 one unsurprisingly was just like coming home again. It's seeing a friend that you haven't seen in years, but it it feels like you're picking right up where you left off so long ago. Adrian Barbeau uh is phenomenal in it as Stevie. And one of the things that I just for some reason never realized is that Tom Atkins is in it. So this is my first Tom Atkins movie, and I think it it just never clicked in my head because every time I imagine the fog, I imagine a different looking guy as him. It's a very bizarre phenomena in my mind.

SPEAKER_00 12:14

I feel like I would like to imagine a different guy as him.

SPEAKER_04 12:17

To me, these were a good runtime. So um watching them, especially watching the um original, I was fairly entertained throughout. Like, you know, you start off with some creepiness and vibes, especially there's a supermarket scene that you get, and you get that right in the beginning. Um well watching the remake, it just felt so familiar to me and predictable. But and I know you guys are gonna say because I had just watched the original, but if it didn't feel that predictable in a way, it just felt like every movie I had watched during that time frame, it just felt like a repeat of those. So I felt like I was watching the same movie.

SPEAKER_00 12:55

I think that's totally fair, Alexis. There were actually a couple moments that were in both films, but having watched the remake first, I knew they were coming in the original, but they actually still surprised me. So I think there's definitely some credibility to saying that there's a little bit more effectiveness in some areas in the original. Um, mostly while watching the remake, I kind of felt a lot of nostalgia, especially when we're like hit right off the bat with that Fallout Boy intro. I was like, okay, this is the time that this came out. Got it. And then just seeing that cast of characters, I was like, okay, all these like hot, like young adults giving very CW. But that's kind of like what I felt about it. I felt like it was almost like goosebumps level horror and not like that deep dark horror that I love. Um, and then going back to the original, I feel like there was a lot of potential in the story. Um, but maybe because I had already watched the remake, I felt like it didn't quite go as far as I wanted it to.

SPEAKER_03 13:47

It's interesting. I when I watched the original, I, you know, I I like the pacing, I like most of the characters. I kind of I kind of felt an attachment to it a little bit. You know, I I I actually wish this was a gritty, dark, 10-episode HBO show that like took its time to dive into the history of Antonio Bay and go into each of the current residents. I feel like there's enough there, there's like a this this feeling. I know you guys describe it as a familiarity. I mean, it is kind of scary stories to tell in the dark, it's kind of that level, but um I feel like there's enough there that you could extend it and it would be interesting. Going into the 2005, you know, the foggy pirates of the Pacific that we got to watch here, they tried to amp things up to 11, and I feel like they made it all the way to five. You know, I I watched both films back to back, 81st, 2005, afterwards. And 2005 somehow took the original's material and turned it into this teen like summer flick, and that's not what the original was, and it's definitely not what I expected. So it was like a completely different feeling to it. I mean, I was technically a teen. Does 19 count as teen? Yeah. We'll we'll say 19 counts as it's a teen. Yeah. So as a teen when this movie came out, and um I didn't watch it then, obviously. It's my first time seeing it, but I feel like it it definitely seems like one of those things you would watch at 19 in a theater, like when you're trying to like put your arm around the girl eating some popcorn or something. You know, I don't feel like it's a proper, like, ooh, this is a horror movie right here. This is a blockbuster attempt, is what I think it is.

SPEAKER_04 15:15

Oh, yeah, this is the movie you went to like with your friends to try to get out of the house.

SPEAKER_06 15:20

Like, at least me, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 15:22

Right.

SPEAKER_06 15:22

That's interesting. I I think when watching the 2005 version, I found myself admiring some things that they did. I admired a little bit of a deeper dive into the history, although I don't think I was missing it necessarily from the original. I'm okay with the amount that we got because it felt so well paced. What I didn't like was the added romantic conflict between Nick Castle and the other characters, right? Like I'm not a fan of that. I'm not a fan of making things sexy to make them sexy or dramatic to make them dramatic. And I felt like it weakened the story a bit because it also didn't have a lot of ramifications. It was unnecessarily complex, and even though the runtime on paper isn't bad, the set the remake felt so much longer to me. Maybe because I felt so bored, it felt like I had to get through it. Which is difficult, and I know that sounds incredibly harsh. This there are some good things about this movie, but I think that's where it sat for me. It's it didn't captivate me. It felt like I was just going along for the ride, and it was it was not a boat I wanted to be on. But I will say one of the things that surprised me most was looking back at the cast and looking at Tom Welling, looking back at Selma Blair, and knowing that there are a lot of folks in this movie who I genuinely enjoy, but I still didn't feel like they gave a lot of soul in the performance. Again, maybe that's just totally wrong for this movie, because they're not bad. Like I've enjoyed them in so many other things, but it just missed the mark for me. It all felt very hollow, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_04 16:55

Yeah, they weren't really that deep. Um, especially that conflict you're talking about. I thought more would arise from that, and nothing did, and I was I was just disappointed because, like you said, it felt like it was very it was just thrown in there. I was super surprised because I totally forgot that Jamie Lee Curtis was in the original. I was like, well, damn, okay. The same Michael Myers as Lori. Yeah, it's very different. It was um, it reminded you of the one where she was with um Arnold Schwarzenegger. That's like I got those kind of I get the this is like the sexy Jamie Lee Curtis that I know.

SPEAKER_06 17:30

This is Jamie Lee Curtis being a grown-ass woman who has her own agency and can do whatever the fuck she wants. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 17:35

First of all, that's why she's sexy. Jamie Lee Curtis is always sexy, so you don't have to qualify it.

SPEAKER_04 17:40

Kind of annoying in Halloween. Activa commercials though?

SPEAKER_03 17:44

Well, that's different. It's not she's still hot. Are we talking about modern commercials?

SPEAKER_04 17:47

Because still You think she looks good with that wig on?

SPEAKER_03 17:50

Girl, she always looks good.

SPEAKER_04 17:51

In the new Halloween? Oh, that wig. That wig is horrible. But yeah, I I think for the remake, you know, I was just surprised at how early on that they gave the um that they gave away sort of the storyline or the plot line. And I know Chris, you said you kind of liked uh how they did a deeper dive. I was kind of like not a fan. I think it they kind of beat me over the head with it a little bit too much. I wish there was somewhere I could meet in the middle between the original and the remake.

SPEAKER_06 18:19

Yeah, because I I think that's the thing, right? Like I like the deeper dive into the history. I don't necessarily like the active flashbacks, and I I don't like that it was all given up up at the very, very beginning. I appreciate the exploration of like the inciting incidents and and what is sparking these uh the supernatural phenomena, did not need it executed in quite this way. It's the thought that counts.

SPEAKER_03 18:42

You know, the thing that disappointed me, I guess you could say it applies to both movies, but the 1981 was the antagonists. They just like didn't seem scary, and we didn't see that much of them, but when we did, I feel like even then it was a little bit too much. Like I kind of wanted more mystery with the antagonists, and I kind of wanted more varied kills. When we get into 2005 though, good God, everything has to be amplified in the mid-2000s. So we have to see more of the antagonists, which was definitely not what I needed. And a kill that happened off-screen or mostly off-screen in the original had to become this massive special effects laden mess, and it was just it everything was just too much. You know, it's like let's go get a drink, right? I'm thinking, I'm gonna have one or two little drinks. No, when this this movie's like, you want to go get a drink? And it and it brings like a cooler full of like some kind of punch that is heavily spiked.

SPEAKER_06 19:33

You wanna you wanna go get a drink? Let's get alcohol poisoning.

SPEAKER_03 19:37

Right. And that's that's what the 2005 was. The 2005 was a 19-year-old who got access to a ton of alcohol and just wanted to consume all of it in one night.

SPEAKER_04 19:47

I like that kind of not in movies though. Right. In real life.

SPEAKER_06 19:51

That's interesting because the the antagonists I feel in the 1980s look way better.

SPEAKER_07 19:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 19:59

I appreciate the mystery, and if there's anything to add, I think it would be gore. But I also do think that this is like in the stylings of what John Carpenter was trying to do in in terms of a comic, uh, and watch the comic similar to what Creepshow did a couple years later. I was okay with it, but yeah, I don't I don't think the antagonist left me wanting anything more.

SPEAKER_03 20:22

You know what? I I think when I was watching it, I was like, oh, you know what? When I see them, I kind of wish they were more in the shadows. But then when you go into 2005, you realize they truly are kind of pretty well hidden. Because in 2005 there's smack dab in the middle of the screen right in front of you, fully well lit. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 20:37

So in fact, one one of the one of my favorite parts about the 1980s is how you never really see them very clearly. Like the little bits that you see.

SPEAKER_03 20:44

That's true. They don't have someone in a like a really bad costume just in the middle of the frame, which is nice.

SPEAKER_00 20:49

I'm surprised to hear you say a lot of these things, Chris, about the runtime and the pacing in the original. I felt like both of these movies really stretched out an hour and thirty minutes for me. It felt like they were paced very slowly, and then the endings kind of picked up. But I was also disappointed in the antagonists. It took me a while, but actually, at the very end of watching the original, I realized, oh, it's basically a zombie movie. It's not technically zombies, but it's giving very zombie movie. Um, and I was like, okay, that explains why I've been feeling this way watching this. Now, granted, it does have a nautical theme, and I'm a sucker for a nautical theme. Like I really enjoyed a whole lot of this movie just on that alone, but I was very much not scared by this at all.

SPEAKER_03 21:32

I can I can join in there because you know, in 1980 the score is amazing, but even that just wasn't enough to make it truly suspenseful uh enough for me to consider it scary. Like it has some suspense, but it wasn't there, it wasn't scary level. And in the 2005, don't even start like not scary at all, no suspense whatsoever.

SPEAKER_06 21:50

Okay, so look, it may not be scary. I get it. 2005 in in particular, I think 1980 is like more creepy in its atmosphere, but not necessarily scary. This movie did make me scared of fog though. Like for sure. Not that I thought like, you know, creatures were gonna come from the fog and get me, but rather who the fuck wants to be in fog that thick? That's terrifying. There was like a really bad pile-up in Virginia a few years ago because of fog in like icy roads, and that's something that I've always been scared of like running into in life. So whenever I see fog, I'm a little scared, and then I think of this movie. It makes it a little bit okay, but also still fuck fog.

SPEAKER_00 22:28

If you're in a car, fog is scary. But if you're like hanging out in the woods, fog is like really cool and fun to play in.

SPEAKER_06 22:33

Like Dead by Daylight.

SPEAKER_00 22:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 22:35

See you in the fog.

SPEAKER_00 22:36

Thicken the fog.

SPEAKER_04 22:37

See, I have driven in fog, and it is so creepy. It is creepy, but also like really beautiful somehow. But um, yeah, I will agree with y'all. The 2005 version definitely, even though you see much more, it definitely wasn't scary. But let me tell you, the creepiness and the you know, the synthesizers that are used, uh, that are pretty typical of John Carpenter movies, um, in the 1980s version was terrifying. Not okay, not terrifying, like super scary, but I definitely like kept my lights on that night and then or like ran to the other room. And I was like, wow, this is interesting that this movie did that to me because I was not expecting that at all.

SPEAKER_06 23:19

Oh, yeah. You don't want any polite ghosts knocking at your door.

SPEAKER_03 23:23

It's true, they do knock. Wow. They really did knock.

SPEAKER_06 23:26

I'm gonna come get a meat hook one day and just knock three times at your door. I will die.

SPEAKER_00 23:30

With a fog machine.

SPEAKER_03 23:32

Oh, yes. How very original. I know, unlike unlike the 2005 version of this film, which was not original, in my opinion. The 1980, you know what, it feels like the visual representation of a ghost story. It feels like a retelling of a retold story. Not original material, but in its own special incantation. It's it's like a campfire story, right? Like you you've probably heard them and it seems fun to listen to them, but it's probably been retold 40 times.

SPEAKER_04 23:58

Interesting you say that because 1980 I definitely texted Chris and was like, I feel like I've seen this. I feel like this is, and she was like, Yep, because it's Halloween. Well, hold on. That's not exactly how this went.

SPEAKER_07 24:10

Uh-oh.

SPEAKER_06 24:11

Yeah, how did it go actually? You said this feels like a Halloween reunion, and I said, that's because it is.

SPEAKER_04 24:18

But it did feel like a Halloween reunion. So it felt very there were a lot of, you know, I feel like when you talk about John Carpenter and just like all the amazing stuff he does, there is some classical stuff, and I feel like that this movie is filled with them. Um, and the 2005 version, it literally felt, like I said, another remake during that time with another group of kids doing things. I'm really surprised someone didn't summon something on purpose, like reading off a thing, some sort of scripture.

SPEAKER_06 24:52

Don't you remember when the object was touched and that summoned everything?

SPEAKER_00 24:56

Truly. I know.

SPEAKER_04 24:57

So I'm like, I'm surprised they didn't read off of it, and I'm like, geez, you know, this would have like been so on the nose for movies this type. So neither of them felt super original, but I do like the idea of where this came from, if you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_00 25:14

I can't say that I do, and I can't say that either of these movies felt original to me. It felt like it was very zombie, it was very goosebumps, it was very like, ooh, don't go outside at night, because the fog's gonna get ya.

SPEAKER_04 25:28

But Goosebumps was after this.

SPEAKER_00 25:30

Yeah, but like it was very like soft, soft horror, in that like they were just not gonna show us very much at all. And somehow I actually think that the remake felt more original because they elaborated on on they elaborated on a lot of things in a way that they didn't go for in the original. Um yeah, maybe they stole some of those things from Pirates of the Caribbean, so how original is that? I don't know. But of the two, I gotta say 2005 did more. More things that I've never seen.

SPEAKER_06 26:01

Okay, that's just sacrilegious at this point and absurd, and I'm not here to stand for it. 2005 is the hey, you too can have a horror movie remake, just add party, just add sex, just add a video camera and people with nefarious intentions, just add uh a jilted lover or someone having an affair. Just add a long, complicated backstory that in some ways you're honoring the original, and in other ways you're just kind of re treading water to make things seem a little spicier than they actually need to be. And that's the thing for me. John Carpenter's vision and like the way that he told the story crafted this story from like things he visually saw, right? So he's thinking thinking about this movie that he's inspired by, thinking about his what he actually saw and encountered with Deborah Hill at Stonehenge. Think about you know, his bringing in this shipwreck for that that actually happened in the 19th century. That is like a unique blend, and then taking in all these ghosty elements that we've seen time and time again before that. That feels like a unique blend and a unique product. And for me, there's only one fog, and it's the 1980 original. I think for the the 2005, it again is not a horrible movie by any means or stretch of the imagination, but it's Rin's Reprie with the rest of the 2000s remix that wasn't Texas Chainsaw Massacre. And there's a reason why that movie ended the director's career. Like never got another job after this.

SPEAKER_03 27:32

So are you saying the movie was kind of like a major letdown, just like the ending of the movie?

SPEAKER_06 27:37

A hundred percent.

SPEAKER_03 27:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 27:39

The ending of the 2005 version is just absurd.

SPEAKER_03 27:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 27:43

Yeah. The original leaves you with this feeling of like, what was that? Could it happen again? Whereas the next one is like, oh, there's some finality and some closure. We're gonna pretend we button this up in a concise way, and really it just makes no fucking sense.

SPEAKER_03 27:58

Yeah, the the original, you know, at first, like I was like, okay, this is okay, this is a good ending. This is good enough, we wrap things up, this is interesting. Um, but then they add that little bit of spice just for funsies, and it was a little bit more sinister, and I think that worked really well. When we get to the 2005 ending, they like had the playbook, and at the very end, all the players just walked off field. It's like, did you guys forget to execute? Because what's going on right now?

SPEAKER_04 28:20

It's interesting because I mean, I agree. There was a little bow tie on the end for the um original one. The remake, um, I see where they're coming from, I see what they're going for, and I do enjoy it, but I wish there were more like nuances or clues, or it was intentional on what they were doing, because it seemed like the ending was like, oh, this would be a cool ending. We kind of threw some tidbits in there, but if there was more intention behind those tidbits, I feel like I would have enjoyed the um ending for the 2005 version much more.

SPEAKER_00 28:55

I agree. I think the element that we're talking about felt absolutely random and out of nowhere, and at for a moment incestuous for me. We can unpack that later. But because I saw that first, I was expecting to get a similar thing with Jamie Lee Curtis, and then I was so bummed that that didn't actually happen. And I was like, oh, so they just like made that up and tacked it on for the remake. My bad.

SPEAKER_06 29:16

Yes, they did, as they often do.

SPEAKER_00 29:19

Yeah. Uh for me, neither of the endings were particularly great. It was all very um Well, it's over now and we survived. Did we learn anything? No. Uh will it happen again? Probably.

SPEAKER_06 29:31

Well, speaking of things happening again, probably. We'll see how the scoring shakes out. It sounds like Paris has his mind made up, and think we the rest of us do too. Now, before we actually start rating each of these movies, Alexis, what's our body count looking like for each one?

SPEAKER_04 29:46

For the original, we have a solid six. And for the remake, we have a 16 with a little asterisk by it. So we will um unpack that after the spoiler break. But what about the animal report? Unfortunately, we have one little hot dog in the remake.

SPEAKER_03 30:04

I I would say if you're sensitive to um to pet violence, like you're gonna have a little tear. That's that's gonna happen.

SPEAKER_04 30:12

Yeah, you'll have a little tear for sure. I mean, I had a I didn't have a tear, but I was upset. Yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_06 30:17

Well, bodies and and pets aside, let's go ahead and dive into these ratings. Let's start out with the original, The Fog by John Carpenter from 1980. Was it a hack or slash?

SPEAKER_03 30:28

This one I think is a slash. I think we have a good script. I think we have pretty decent characters. There's one actor I don't enjoy, but the rest of them are good. Um, I think I got into the story and and found it enjoyable while I was watching. It didn't feel long, it it felt like it moved along at just the right pace, and I think it's a solid watch. I think it's a slash.

SPEAKER_04 30:49

Chris, I think you said it well um earlier that this movie builds so much atmosphere, and I love that, and I believe that's what makes this movie so creepy and so interesting, and there's just like a lot going on with this movie, and I appreciate all of the stuff that's going on in it. It's just weird because I don't have such hard feelings for this movie, like I know our patrons do. I do enjoy it, but it's not like one of those things where I'm like, oh my gosh, I have so much backstory on this, or it's nostalgic for me. But I do appreciate it as being a good movie. Um, and I honestly would have recommended to a lot of people. I know we'll talk about this later, but I think that's kind of how I score movies. Like, would I watch it again or would I recommend it? And I I really would for someone who's just getting into horror or kind of wants something creepy but not like scary or super violent. So it's definitely getting a slash for me.

SPEAKER_00 31:45

Well, here I am. Um, the voice of reason once again, here to hack this movie. Uh Alexis, I'm shocked that you slashed this, to be quite honest. You literally described the things you don't like in a horror movie, and then said you would recommend it to people who are into that kind of thing. But that is fair and valid, and I'm sure those people would actually like this movie. I am not one of those people. Um, this story just isn't good to me. It's like old ghosts coming back for another ride, and then everybody kind of hides in the house, and that's the gist of it. Um I also felt like there was a missed opportunity with a lot of the visuals in this original film. I don't know if it was like the version I was watching or something, but there were a lot of like really well-composed night shots that just weren't lit enough to give you the detail and the shadows that I was looking for. Um and ultimately, like, I was really surprised and delighted to get Jamie Lee Curtis and then disappointed to not get very much of her. I was expecting more. Uh, but ultimately this movie was just like a soft goosebumps, like TV level horror that's like really great if you are just getting into horror. Um, but I am well past that, so I will not be watching this again, and it is a hack.

SPEAKER_06 32:58

Mmm, again, so shocking with uh some of the comments that you've made, good sir. The visuals okay, John Carpenter in partnership with Gene Cundy, they are masters of executing darkness and building atmosphere and being very strategic and careful with their lighting to create this ambiance that is is honestly unparalleled in a lot of horror. So I'm not sure what version you watched, I'm not sure where you got it, but I promise you there is a higher quality version out there because I had zero issues picking up and discerning detail in my shadows.

SPEAKER_00 33:35

Okay, I want to watch that one because I bet some of the stills are truly gorgeous.

SPEAKER_06 33:39

Absolutely. This movie is so beautiful, which is, you know, partially why it stuck out to me so much in my life. This movie is a slash, and it could be a slash just based on his visuals, but then you have Carpenter's approach to storytelling, and he dangles enough mystery before you with a just enough explanation that it's okay and leaves you wanting a little bit more, but not out of a sense of like, I don't feel like I got enough, I don't feel like it was explained enough to me, but rather like this desire like I want to know more, I want to see something else that's from this world or another property involving it. And that's part of the reason why, you know, like you look at Halloween 2 and the success that that was and why that one got a sequel and how he had to, you know, force himself to r to write a sequel for that and expand on that lore. I absolutely love the approach to this film. I'm totally okay with seeing a diversity in Jamie Lee Curtis's uh acting range, both in this this type of performance she has, because again, this movie came at a time where she wasn't getting many roles after doing Halloween. But then also the amount of time. Sure, she's listed as one of the stars, but Adrian Barbot is really the star of the film, and as is Tom Gatkins. And I just don't feel like everything has to be devoted to just one person. And I love when we can get a story about a town going through a traumatic thing, and it really feels like you're invested in people from the town, whether they be outsiders like Jamie Lee Curtis's character or the the priest who's been here all along. So this movie is undoubtedly a slash because it shows a town working together to to navigate this perilous night or these perilous couple of nights. What kills me though is is the way some of that is taken in the remake. I think one of the things that that bothered me about the 2010 A Nightmare on Elm Street remake, and that's one that I I hated with a passion, let me just say I I don't feel that way about this movie. But one of the pitfalls of that ran into was trying to be different, but also not doing enough to actually be different, but then also lifting dialogue word for word. And I think that you have to be particularly adept in filmmaking and paying reverence to an original piece of property to be able to recycle dialogue, to be able to recycle plot points without feeling like you just don't know what you're doing, so you're just gonna rely on what you had. And that's where this movie suffers a bit for me. Because there are moments where I think, okay, we have some variance in the characters, I don't like this angle, but I can appreciate that it's a different angle. But then you get some of the dialogue that's just that's just word for word, and and sometimes I like it. In this one, it just fell flat because it felt like every single line of dialogue was just a worse delivery than the original. That killed me because I really liked Selma Blair and she was no Stevie. She was no Stevie for me. So I found myself bored. I sound I found myself frustrated with Elizabeth's character in the remake. And then they did this thing. There's a moment where Elizabeth is counted on to do something, and she's not able to do it, and then Nick as a character replaces her and he's able to just do it. And there's a particular like a pr approach to a woman a woman being incapable of doing something that just feels real bad to me, especially in the early 2000s. Like that makes no fucking if it wasn't in the original, that's not a detail you needed to add in the mid-2000s. And then in addition to that, they just added layers of complexity to some characters that was not necessary at all. So while this movie I don't think is anywhere near as bad as so many people say, it's still a hack for me. It's not the firm's hack. I think it's way better than a lot of re- other remakes that I've seen, but it's just an average okay movie. And you can't just be average and okay when you're trying to, you know, recreate a John Carpenter property. You just can't do it.

SPEAKER_00 37:31

So this is very interesting, I think, because I watched the remake first. That is very much influencing my my takes here. Uh, because I really loved Elizabeth as a character. Yeah, I I was kind of also annoyed with the the things that you're mentioning, Chris, like when she was completely um robbed of her bad bitch qualities that she'd been overall giving throughout the movie. And there's a lot of things I liked more about this movie, including like a little bit more of the story. I liked uh hearing more about like what actually was the cause of all of this mayhem. Um but ultimately this movie was also very bad to me. The story I think is really just where where it doesn't land, because this is just not a story that I would ever find entertaining. I can't even think of what you could do with this story to make it a slash for me. And the acting was really flat, like you said. Uh so while this movie felt hotter and a little bit more entertaining, it's still very much a hack.

SPEAKER_04 38:30

Felt hotter. I like that comment. Yeah, the acting in this, not exceptional. The CGI, I think they overused it, um, especially when you're comparing it to the um original. But as a standalone movie, um, I still can't give this a slash. I just, you know, I fell asleep twice. It's it's loaded with characters I probably like, and we know I like these remakes that were done during this time, and I like the cheesiness behind them. I I love those movies, but I could not get myself to like this movie. I and I have seen it before, and it was funny because I was like, oh, must have not have been that good or that bad. I it was just it is what it is. So that's exactly how I thought about this movie. So I'm gonna have to give this a hack.

SPEAKER_03 39:20

I'm going to join in on hacking 2005. I think it suffered from an incredibly poor script. So when we look at these actors and we think, man, they're not doing that standout of a job, how could they? Because the script they had to work with was pure mediocrity. And it's not thanks, it's not thanks killing level, right? It's not that bad that you're like, this is an utter joke, and we should think about it as a joke. It's not it's not to that level, but it is it's on the side of mediocrity, and I feel bad for that because we know that you can make a John Carpenter remake or reboot and you can do a good job of it. It'll never be the original, but you can make a the thing, you know. You can you can take that work and make it something that's modern and still enjoyable. But I feel like here we removed some depth from some characters, and that was that was unfortunate. We added in details that really didn't add anything to the story, and we also couldn't decide apparently who our main character was. And I think we had a good balance in the original. Like in in the original movie, we have some main characters that are playing off of each other, and you kind of you know kind of see how that works. In 2005, we were like, what if instead of playing off of each other well that we just had a love triangle that went nowhere? Like there's literally a comment from one character or like a facial expression where you can tell there's like some kind of beef going on, but it never comes up again. And it was dissatisfying. I I have to say that. And that's kind of how I feel about the movie. I I watched it again back to back, so I got to compare them directly. And in 2005, we just, you know, we have no flavor, so let's just add in a ton of cayenne pepper. Well, how about that? We didn't salt anything, we didn't pepper anything. Let's just dump cayenne pepper in there and hope that it tastes good. And it it didn't taste good, it was just a ton of special effects and a ton of just drama and like WB channel romance. And we know that those actors are capable of more. We've seen it in their work since then. You know, Smallville was entertaining, although it was Dawson's Creek with Superman, and that's okay, it worked for it, but it doesn't work for for this film.

SPEAKER_06 41:24

Well, I think mediocre is a pretty damn good way to describe it. And with that, the 1980 The Fog has earned three slashes and one hack, while its 2005 counterpart, considerably potentially a bit hotter, according to Paris, has earned a universal hack, nevertheless. You can find the original available to rent, or you can watch the 2005 remake if you really want to streaming on stars. I guess there's a reason why you don't have to pay extra for that one movie. But check them out. Join us in the second half so we can dig into both of them together. See you in a bit!

SPEAKER_02 42:08

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SPEAKER_06 43:12

Now, as promised, we do have the second part of our patrons call coming to you now.

SPEAKER_05 43:19

I really like this movie, and my favorite kill was Father Malone because they kept it.

SPEAKER_01 43:25

So what can I say? The lock of core. And coincidentally you had just posted your review. Don't get a surprise from me. Thank you, eh?

SPEAKER_05 44:07

There ain't no fog bank out there. Hey, there's a fog bank out there.

SPEAKER_00 44:14

That actually was a funny line.

SPEAKER_06 44:17

And just to clarify, he did in fact hate the 2005 remake.

SPEAKER_03 44:22

I love that.

SPEAKER_06 44:23

So glad about that.

SPEAKER_03 44:25

So just so you're aware, dear listener, dear patron, we're having to wipe the tears away from Alexis's eyes right now. Like literally, they're streaming down her face.

SPEAKER_04 44:34

I don't know why. It's always, you know, when you see other people, I mean, I know you guys like horror movies, but it's so nice to like see and hear from other people that listen to us who like horror movies just as much as we do. Because trust me, there's a lot of people that hear about the podcast on a daily basis in my life, and none of them like horror movies and usually give me some shitty ass one to watch. And I'm like, oh, that's that's your caliber. That was very precious.

SPEAKER_00 45:01

Also, I love like the serendipitous moment of somehow stumbling upon our podcast, and then just like he's been engaging with us ever since. And I love that.

SPEAKER_06 45:10

The loyalty from that one.

SPEAKER_04 45:12

And you know what? I totally agree. I wish there was more gore in this. I feel like there could have been more and it wouldn't have taken away from anything as opposed to other movies we watched, like thinking of Halloween. Like, imagine if there were gore in that movie, that'd be kind of weird. But for this one, I feel like there could have been a little bit more just to amp the fog's mystery and the fog's like nefarious ways, you know what I mean? Like, it's not like ooh, it's gonna creep onto your, you know, it looks like it might kill you. It might just, you know, burn you to death, you know. It might just do that. But um, yes, I do definitely giving this a low gore score. I mean, there are some, you know, when Dick was reanimated and you know, his eyes are all like crusty, you know, there's like that, and you know, the green faces that they have and the worms coming out of the um people in the fog. So there are some elements, but I really do wish there was more. So going into my favorite kill, I think it's gonna be um Dan. You know, he was really cringy in uh the original, not so cringy in the remake, but um I appreciated his death pretty well because I was like, he just needs to get out of here. He's just being rude to Stevie. He just needs to die, and I liked it.

SPEAKER_03 46:30

I'm gonna take it back to Dick because the eyes are always brutal. You know, anytime you get like stabbed or punctured or something going into your eye, that's never a good time. And while the the gore was, of course, 1980 level when we see the eyes afterwards, that's just a b it's just a bad way to go.

SPEAKER_06 46:47

Dan had a great death, but I'm gonna revisit that shot, that scene a little bit later. I think my favorite death is one of the ones that hurts the most or that I feel the worst about, and that's Miss Cobertz's death. And that whole scene with the fog rolling in on her and Andy, her obviously knowing that there's something to be concerned about, but also going to open the door. I don't blame her for opening the door when there's just knocking. Maybe she thinks someone's in need of help, but still wanting Andy to be safe. And the hear, and this is the first time I've ever heard it, to hear their hooks plunging into her flesh, it was just so startling and so heartbreaking.

SPEAKER_00 47:28

Also, the lighting in that scene was really gorgeous. I specifically noted that when she was getting abducted out of that house. As far as favorite kills for the original, it's hard because having watched the remake, I got all the gore. They did the absolute most and then they took it all away from me. Uh so I'm gonna give it to the first kill uh with Al getting stabbed with a saber right through the back because I didn't see it coming, and it looked like a deep stab. It went all the way through to the other side and came out. Um and I thought that there was going to be more gore based on that first kill.

SPEAKER_03 48:02

When it comes to 2005 though, I think my favorite kill, like it's hard to pick in 2005 because I mean I'm sure the rest of you were able to do that. But when I was, you know, watching through it, I was like, I don't know if any of them are really that that notable. But I I think I'm gonna go with Connie. Damn it, Mac. I know, but the instant leprosy, like it was just it was silly, it was special effects, but you know, it just like completely took over their body and rotted it through and cabin fevered them. You know, she was gone really fast.

SPEAKER_06 48:31

Fast acting install leper.

SPEAKER_03 48:33

I literally wrote ultra fast acting leprosy in my notes. I think so. Wait, let me go to my notes here and let's see how I describe this because I wrote her name down and then I wrote super duper speedy leprosy. So we had the same thought.

SPEAKER_06 48:45

Yeah, so effective. You two are very in sync. I think mine is actually Dan for sure this time. It wasn't as pretty as Dan's death in the original, but I'm sorry, being thrown around the room on fire was intense. Although I will say this, and it bothered me. Power goes out, his laptop's on, the laptop makes sense to be on, but the internet is not powered by batteries, sir. It certainly wasn't in 2005. You didn't have a fucking hotspot. What are you doing? I also didn't see an Ethernet cable. There's no router, no modem that you're plugged into. That call should have been dropped.

SPEAKER_00 49:20

I'm gonna drop this call. Chris just roasting these logistics. Honestly, not a lie was spoken.

SPEAKER_04 49:27

I know. Max said this movie was amped up by a thousand. Unfortunately, that had nothing to do with the gore in this movie. It might I think it might even add less, in my opinion. You see a lot of the kills off-screen. You see corpses, but not actual gore of what's happening.

SPEAKER_06 49:44

And then you see the lepers.

SPEAKER_04 49:46

Yes, and then you see the lepers, and it's I mean, that stuff is gross, and you know, you have a similar scene from the original where the eyes are sewn shut and you know the body's coming um up from being dead for a while. But still, you know, there wasn't too much gore, in my opinion, like I said, nothing really stood out to me. My favorite is definitely have to be Aunt Connie because there's no more frightening thing than sticking your hand down a drain, much less something coming out of the drain and then turning you like into a burned corpse. But uh yeah, I could not ever. I hate sticking my hand down there when my little protein shaker bottle ball goes down there. I'm just like and I stick my hand down there, bring it back up. It's draino gone wrong.

SPEAKER_00 50:34

Oh it's the glob of hair coming back to get you.

SPEAKER_04 50:38

It really is. Disgusting fact, I've had to draino my tub three times in the past uh two weeks. That's excessive. Oh god, call the building.

SPEAKER_00 50:47

So maybe it's not working.

SPEAKER_04 50:48

Yeah, I don't think I have a drain. I don't know what the hell is down my drain, actually.

SPEAKER_03 50:52

They do have hair strainers for the tub thing though, so you can catch it a bit better.

SPEAKER_04 50:56

Yeah, it I mean I live in an apartment. They didn't come with that, so I mean doing anything I don't have to put in money. It's this place I don't even own.

SPEAKER_06 51:03

Can I tell you, speaking of long flowing hair, can I tell you the most bullshit death? Which one? Please tell me. It's Elizabeth. It's Elizabeth turning into a fucking ghost because she kissed a ghost. And here's the thing, right? This is something that bothers me. Her name is Elizabeth Williams. She's supposed to be the descendant of one of the conspirators and the murderers, but also she's the ghost and then the reincarnation of Blake. How the fuck do you do you manage that? How do you manage that? They were confused, they never cleared it up in the writer's room, and we are left with muddiness.

SPEAKER_00 51:35

She's a ghost.

SPEAKER_06 51:36

Absolutely hate it. If they had landed on one side of the fence, it would have made the movie so much better. But that was like the final thing that kicked it down, like, oh, it's it's absolutely a hack because this ending is bullshit.

SPEAKER_00 51:49

I also don't know why, but when she kissed that ghost, I was like, ew, that's her dad. Even though I had I guess I had no reason to believe that. It just felt like that was her dad.

SPEAKER_06 51:57

Because he looked so much older than her the entire fucking time. No, he was her husband.

SPEAKER_00 52:01

Oh, good God. Child bride.

SPEAKER_04 52:04

Yeah, I felt like I picked up on that stuff throughout the movie. Like I was talking to Mac about it before we got on. I was like, it seemed like as soon as some sort of trinkets were found that they were like then she was like summoned back to the place and she kept saying like weird things, but maybe because I already knew the ending going into it, because I specifically remember the ending. But then I was like, are are these intentional clues? That's what I was talking about before the spoiler break. Like I feel like they weren't supposed to be intentional, they were just supposed to make her feel familiar.

SPEAKER_06 52:36

So they they should have been intentional because here's the thing her needing to leave town, her feeling like she didn't belong here, would have been such a perfect thing of like maybe she is just a reincarnation of the original Elizabeth, or maybe she is descended from maybe you know her mother escaped and she wasn't a full leper yet. I don't I don't know. But it would have made sense because her her feeling of alienation and isolation within this town and her need to leave perfectly aligned with that colony not being welcomed on that land. But then they just fucking made her a descendant of one of the original conspirators, and it's totally, totally messy and just not well thought out at all.

SPEAKER_03 53:15

This is a play they could have made if this were a miniseries or a two-season show or something like that, where they they could have been building up to this had she been like a main character or even a well-developed side character for that matter, where they could have planted that seed, and then you know, every episode we see a little bit more of the past, and eventually we realize no, she's a descendant of both the the lepers and the townspeople, and oh my gosh, you know, she's the reincarnation or whatever stupid thing. But I think they just should have left it out because that was that was pointless.

SPEAKER_06 53:44

Yeah, they're trying to make her fucking a Nuxinomoon from the mummy.

SPEAKER_03 53:48

She's a hottie. You can't make a play for for mummy vibes if you don't have the stones to back it up.

SPEAKER_05 53:53

Yeah, nobody in this movie did.

SPEAKER_00 53:55

It's funny that you mentioned that, Chris, because I thought Elizabeth was just like that girl that's super hot in her small town, and she's like, I'm gonna make it big. So then she leaves and then realized she's like only a six in the city, and then she comes back and everyone's like, Oh Elizabeth, we missed you. You're the coolest one here.

SPEAKER_06 54:08

Yeah. Yeah, big fish in a small pond.

SPEAKER_00 54:10

Yeah, but then she just ended up being a ghost, so it still didn't make sense. Or like, did she choose to be a ghost because she just like didn't vibe with anyone else?

SPEAKER_06 54:18

Honestly, the the levels of audacity that Rupert Wainwright had pulling off that fucking ending is just borderline despicable.

SPEAKER_03 54:28

Okay, so while while there wasn't much gore to look at, there was a lot to look at otherwise in in both films. But in in the 1980 film, the contrast is what got me. I loved looking at the contrast. So we get a lot of that depending on how high quality of a version that you watched, Paris just saying. Oh, I saw the contrast. I'm glad. So no, I mean we have the fog, right? So the fog is cool because depending on the shot that you're in, it can be completely bright white or it can be kind of soft and subtle, which is cool. And when that lighting hits the fog, and then we see our ghostly apparitions appear, and they're like solid black, just like so dark with bright red eyes, it was just like perfect. We got the light, we got the dark, we have this color thrown in in just the smallest amount, which is awesome. And it really does make it dynamic on screen to look with you know with that nailed contrast in 1980.

SPEAKER_04 55:21

Yeah, I love the way they're backlit, like that's just like amazing, and they're so daunting with that. I feel like this is just like a fun thing. I love the visuals on a lot of the movie. The opening credits, how they have the like typography, and how you have the synthesizers and the music, like everything's going on, and like the opening credits and everything, but then like the letters start turning into fog. I thought that was like so cool. It was just like a little touch. It was like my favorite thing, one of my favorite things about this movie, uh, visually. I'm sure if Ryan were here, she'd say exactly the same thing. Oh, I'm speaking for both of us tonight.

SPEAKER_06 55:57

But truly, the lighting in this movie is to die for the choice to not expose so much of the ghosts and to have them hidden, buried in the fog, you know, even if they're out of the fog, but to still be backless, we don't see incredible detail. It's absolutely stunning. And then looking at the composition of that and the way that John Carpenter and Dean Cundy play with the foreground and the background, I'm thinking of even a particular shot where they've just rescued Andy, they're back in the truck, and you see one of the ghosts in the background in the fog appear in their window. It's it's so beautiful. I I think this lighting, the lighting in this movie is is second to none. And you know, even looking at Dan's death, he's walking out into this hallway, and you have this red light flashing mixing with the fog. God, this movie is just stunning to look at.

SPEAKER_00 56:50

Yeah, it's hard not to really like fall in love with the fog of it all. Um I'm somebody who really just enjoys fog as a concept and as an experience. Um, so I really did enjoy that visually throughout this movie. There's a sh there's a really wide shot of Stevie's house with the fog like surrounding it, and just the volume of fog that they were able to get to like perfectly like kind of consume that house, and the way it was lit was just really stunning. There's also a couple shots where Stevie's looking out on the horizon and smoking a cigarette, and it's just a shot of the ocean. I just thought it was notably gorgeous, and I was like, I could just get that still framed and put it on my wall because it was like so beautiful and so rich.

SPEAKER_06 57:27

Yeah. For as great as the fog is in the original, it's it's mostly okay in the remake, but there's something about it that I'm not a big fan of, and I think it's because when we first see it, it's so ultra green that it it feels very gritty early 2000s. Like there are moments later where it looks back to normal and it looks like it's done well. I'm not a fan of the fog ghosts though, and the way that they are made from the fog. They're these faint wispy apparitions. That was not the move. I would really appreciate the practical approach to having someone dressed in a costume but backlit, so we don't really see them. This CGI is just is is not for me.

SPEAKER_03 58:10

The one time they nailed the fog is when it's rolling through the hallway, though. And it fills the space like slowly and it's moving towards people. And and that was one place in the 2005 um remake that I actually enjoyed looking at the fog because it's it's got intention to it, it's got this like mind of its own, if you will, where it's headed towards you, and that looked really cool in that specific shot coming into the hallway.

SPEAKER_04 58:35

See, I was a big fan of that. There were um I understand you guys say there's a lot of CGI, but there was like one part in particular, um, where it's the seagrass, so the boat, and it's like this overhead shot and the fog's coming in, and I just like how thick it was. Um but I'd have a problem with it, maybe because I didn't notice it being green, so that didn't throw me off a little bit. But um, I don't know, both the town in both movies is quite exceptional to look at, especially this one. I think it was just a lot of the shots from the lighthouse are great. They're just stunning, and it kind of I don't know why I was getting deep blue sea vibes. Don't ask me why. I think it's when they're in the control tower and you can just see everything. But I I really love that.

SPEAKER_00 59:24

Yeah, I too enjoyed the fog really in both iterations. Um, but specifically there were some really gorgeous shots, mostly focusing on Elizabeth in the fog. Like initially when we first are introduced her, it's just like a really hot look to just be like a mysterious gorgeous woman in the fog at night, and then for anybody to stumble upon you, it's like, oh, who is she? What's her story? She's just out here in the fog on her own.

SPEAKER_06 59:47

Is she like a cursive Y?

SPEAKER_00 59:49

She is. She's very much giving elegance and mystique. Um but then there's another scene where she just kind of like goes to the beach to like think about things, and the fog kind of envelops her there. And I was like, Elizabeth and the fog is really just a whole vibe. Um, and I think maybe the fog is partly why I liked Elizabeth so much, so who's to say?

SPEAKER_06 1:00:10

Obviously, there there's so much that's stunning in in both of these movies, but Alexis, you mentioned talking about the lighthouse and and Paris, I know you mentioned this as well, thinking about those scenes of of Stevie smoking a cigarette and just looking out onto the ocean as the fog is either not there or starts to roll in. And I think when I consider my favorite scene of the original, it's honestly when shit starts hitting the fan for Stevie, but she's concerned about her son panicking about what's going on, but also has the wherewithal to use the technology she has in front of her to guide others. And I think that's one of the things we'll talk about characters in a little while. It's one of the things I really gravitated to about her approach to her character because she has this sense of obligation and like I need to help because I have this unique vantage point that no one else here has.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:00

That's interesting because my favorite scene from the original is tied to those two things, but in a completely different scene. It's the look of dread on her face. Um, you know, when the fog creeps over like it's like a little roller coaster. And then I was like, I really thought she was gonna be safe in this lighthouse. Um, and I am assuming she did too. But then once it creeps over and it's starting to go, just the like look of dread. And I think just that's what really amped up that part um of the movie for me, especially at the end. I was like, oh crap, no one's safe from this, actually. Yeah, it doesn't matter that she's from Chicago. Yeah, it doesn't matter. Doesn't matter if you are the best disc jockey in all of the Bay Area.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:44

I'll add in a uh a related scene in both films. And this is when the you know the fog's coming in, they're trying to contact people, whether it's over the cell phone, over the radio, or you know, good old-fashioned landline trying to get a hold of the sheriff and the fog, the ghosts, like take out forms of communication. Because if you have a lot of people on an island and you're trying to take over with your ghostly fog, you gotta take down those lines of communication first, right? That's how you take over, is they need to not be able to talk to each other real quick.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:14

Yeah, I for sure wrote down prime ghost activity in this one for the original.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:20

Like they knew what's up to like take out the power, take out the phones, then we then we can attack.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:25

I know that these were some colonial era ghosts, but I will say they were in cahoots with the electrical ghosts because they knew what was up and and how to how to make an impact.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:37

They've been waiting and plotting and planning the whole time. They'll just show up when it's like a little bit.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:42

Keeping up with what cell phones are.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:43

You know, there's like every now and then if you notice a little bit of fog, that's just one of the ghosts like doing a little recon.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:48

I gotta say, my favorite scene from the original, obviously it's a Jamie Lee Curtis scene. It's when they go to investigate the um what's left of the seagrass. Um, specifically when her and Tom Atkins are below deck in the cabin having their little conversation, they really just kind of relaxed on what I believe was a crime scene, so I'm not sure how procedural that was. But specifically the way the ship was swaying while they were talking, it really was so convincing, and it's the thing that I remember most about the movie. Um, because you also have the lighting swinging back and forth as well as the boat rocks, and the lighting is mostly focused on Jamie Lee Curtis, but every other pulse it like just reaches Tom Atkins' face to give you his like full visage and then puts him back in shadow and keeps her in the light. And I was like, ooh, this is like really doing something for me as far as like playing with these character dynamics right now.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:43

I think another one of those really, really captivating scenes in the original, and you know, in in some ways the remake as well was the rescue of Andy from the house. First off, I mean, we'll get to it in a second, but Andy and the remake are a little bit of a twerp. However, seeing the fog wrap around that house, uh, seeing it move up against those glass, tall glass windows was absolutely beautiful. But the breaking of the glass, and and this is something that I think I've always wondered like, how are they managing to come onto the property within the fog and not get killed by a ghost pirate? But there's a lot of drama there, there's a lot of intrigue, there's a lot of excitement. Everybody's just doing stuff and things are happening, people are moving. But I think it's also one of the things that that hurts in the remake because this is where we get the difference between the two Elizabeths. So in the original, Elizabeth is gonna be driving the getaway truck, but it's actually stuck, and there's a lot of chaos, and I can see like the frantic, like, oh shit, what do I do? It seems like she's trying to shift gears, maybe trying to put it into reverse, and things just aren't moving, but we can see the tire spinning and she's trying to cre take action, eventually gets it to go. But then they make this decision, and I realize that this may be a small thing to a lot of folks, but they make the decision for Elizabeth to start trying, and then for Nick to just get out of the fucking car and do it himself.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:06

That was so annoying.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:08

While Elizabeth starts out as a really interesting woman, she starts getting less and less interesting the more they try to make her more interesting, and it absolutely burns me.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:19

It was like when he got out of the car, I was like, wait, what are they doing? And then he just like got in the driver's seat and she sh and she scooched over, and then he did the same thing. I was like, wait, really? Why? Why why did that just happen?

SPEAKER_04 1:05:29

I mean, I would switch, but uh in times I'm just not seeing uh in those times it's easier just to switch inside the car. So my favorite scene from the remake, I want to be really super shallow and say when Fallout Boy was playing.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:45

Right when we got for a second there, when you said you're gonna be shallow, I thought you were gonna say the shower sex scene. I'm like, no, that's gotta be the first scene to go.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:54

I'll tell you what. If any scene had too much fog, it was that shower sex scene.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:58

So I really like the scene where. Where um Stevie's at the lighthouse and she has like the mirror or some sort of like whatever that is covered in barnacles, and she is um pretty much getting sort of some turbulence or whatever it is. I don't know if it's through the radio or just in the air, but it's all these screams, and so I watched this at night, and I had it a little bit loud in my bedroom, and you can hear everything. So I'm like, these people probably think I'm psychotic. Then I watched in my living room. Also, people can hear it in my living room too. And I'm like, they're probably like, what is this girl doing at like 9 a.m. listening to this? But it to me it was like so fascinating, and then you it was like hot and scorched, and you know, I I just like that because that's the first time you really to me I felt frightened or annoyed by the screens. Yeah, I can't tell which one.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:49

So my favorite scene, actually, both of my favorite scenes from the remake both had to do with a beautiful woman underwater, um, just because once again, a vibe. Uh, but when Elizabeth is like tangled up in the weeds, uh, dressed like a colonial ghost for some reason, like with that little military jacket, um, just the lighting in that scene was really beautiful. It also reminded me of uh Pirates of the Caribbean, as well as for some reason Hocus Pocus. Uh it had like really like throwback vibes for me. Uh, and I really enjoyed it. And then she like discovered another clue, and I was like, you know, this really is Elizabeth's movie. Um, and that was before they kind of took her out at the knees.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:27

Could we at least acknowledge though that there's no fucking way she actually should have fallen into that water?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:33

Yeah, I was really confused by that.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:35

That was just I need to pretend that I accidentally slipped, but I don't know how to act that. So Yeah. Is this how?

SPEAKER_07 1:07:43

Exactly.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:44

You have so much room, you seem to be not particularly rushing. You're walking at a normal pace. It's wet, but it's not that slippery. You literally just stepped into the water.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:54

She just has weak ankles. I have to admit, I think I was getting a glass of water, and so when I sat back down, I just saw her in the water, like drowning, and I figured she woke up in a dream and was actually in the water. I didn't realize she actually slipped and fell into it. It happened very quickly. Like I was like, wait, what? Okay, I guess we're in the water.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:12

She slipped as quickly as my interest in this film.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:15

It actually made it more interesting to not have known that she slipped and fell into it. Because when I sat back down, I had my glass of water, I was like, oh whoa, her dream became reality. This is interesting now. And it worked better. Just saying.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:26

So wait, I actually have a question about another scene. So there's a scene in this movie where Selma Blair drives a car into the water. And I don't know if anybody else does this. I'm sure I'm not the only one. But like during scenes like that where a character is like trapped under the water, I'll hold my breath once they go under and see if I can last as long in the same situation. Like, obviously, it's edited and there's cuts, but like I try to see if it's like realistic that that person could have held their breath that long and escaped. Does anybody else think about this?

SPEAKER_06 1:08:53

I've tried that once before, and it wasn't this movie, it was like some Coast Guard movie, I think. But the answer is no. A I would have died immediately because I can't swim. But Selma Blair driving into the water with that car accident. I think some of the car accidents were probably some of the more interesting things that happened in this movie. It's like, now this makes sense. There's fog, you don't know what's coming, you're getting hit.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:17

The driving hazard, the driving hazard of fog really made itself known in this remake.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:22

I don't think about how long they can hold their breaths because I know that they use multiple cuts and stuff. So I'm like, it doesn't, it's not real time, it doesn't count. Um, but I do think about like the logistics of getting out of the car and safely making it up above. So I, you know, there's like a apparently a process you're supposed to follow that nobody ever does in a movie. Like everyone just like sits there and struggles, and sometimes they don't take any breaths of air before the water fills up the car, and that always concerns me when they're just like struggling and oh my gosh, I have to get out, but no one's like, let me breathe in some oxygen because I'm about to be without it for a while. Because I feel like that's an important step if you're gonna escape a car that's stranded in water.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:03

I think another important step is owning one of those tools that can either cut a seatbelt or break the glass.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:09

Yeah, I'm always looking for those. I'm like, uh, I definitely saw an infomercial on that, but I do not see these in the cars.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:15

Honestly, that's a lifelong fear that I have of like, so we moved around a lot when I was younger, we'd drive over a lot of bridges, and I'm like terrified of heights and I'm terrified of water, and those two things combined just scare the fuck out of me. It took me so long to be able to drive through the Hampton Roads Bridge Tunnel without hyperventilating. Yet somehow I am still dumb enough to not have any of those tools in my car ever.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:39

I know I don't have them either, and now I'm bugging. I I would like to talk about my least favorite part of 1980 though, because it was a minor thing, but it was a major annoyance. And that was when we get the looping, like radio thing in the lighthouse. When Stevie's walking up and we hear that looping K A B Antonio Bay over and over, all the different takes. For some reason it was just grating. It was so annoying.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:07

It was, it really was now that I'm thinking about it.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:09

And it was like, why did we have to hear all the takes? Can't you just like fade it out in the background so we can focus on the character instead? Because now all I'm hearing is that that loop and loop and loop.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:18

Yeah, the juxtaposition of mediocrity. You gotta know how bad it could be so you can appreciate how good it is.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:23

I mean, Stevie's worse is great, but that was just watching that, that was hard to make it through that scene.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:29

I think for me, um, in the 1980s, it just seems like the timing was off for me. Like, you know, it's a hundred years later, and maybe I just don't know what a hundred years is, but it just seemed like it needed more time. Like it didn't seem like that was enough time.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:43

When you do the math though, that was 1880 when that all happened. Which makes sense if we're talking about West Coast like settling on stuff and there's still a lot of land and to you know, you can turn it into town still.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:54

Maybe I just don't know facts. But to me, the timing seemed off. And I I mean, also Jamie Lee Curtis, cool, love her in this movie. Didn't need the sex scene. He's just having sex with everyone at random. Oh. I don't know what it is. It just started off his course in this movie, I guess.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:13

I think it didn't bother me in this one because they're just laying in a bed and he still has a shirt on and she's covered up and it is weird that they uh that they get together because he's she is so far out of his league. Yes. Even if you're a person who doesn't believe in leagues, those two people do not make sense together.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:30

I literally wrote because I like I saw Tom Atkins and I'm sure I've railed against him in the Halloween movie. Um but I saw him and I was like, okay, who's this old weirdo? And then when I realized that he was playing the same role as Tom Welling, I literally wrote, Oh fuck no, this textured squash man isn't the hot lead. No, no, no, no. Jamie Lee Curtis would never fuck this Nick. Wow. Because that would never happen in reality.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:55

Maybe that was her thing. Like her character was really into like interfaces. Yeah. That was her that's like her kink. So we're not here to shame her. I am because it's not her kink.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:05

And she would never Jamie Lee Curtis is better than this.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:07

Yeah, I don't I don't have a lot to complain about in terms of the 1980 version. I think if there is anything I would complain about, it would be sadly Tom Atkins. Not even egregiously though. I mean, I think of the movies I've seen him in, this certainly far from a place where I'd actively dislike him. But I will say one of the things that in retrospect, looking back on this movie uh and experiencing the ending with Father Malone vibrating, like he he really just turns on his vibrate rocker as he's like grabbing onto that crucifix and he's just shaking along until uh until Nick pulls him off. It looks a little goofy. I think I can say that.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:49

He also looked exactly like Edgar Allan Poe, which was interesting because the movie started with a quote from Edgar Allan Poe.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:55

I do love Edgar Allan Poe. I do have the Raven framed above my desk.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:59

For a minute, actually was like, there's no way Edgar Allan Poe was alive and acted in this movie, right? And then they looked at it now with those.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:06

Oh my god, Paris. Sometimes there are things I don't know time.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:10

I don't know history or time.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:13

Yeah, I mean, he was he was done like mid-19th century, so I I did find that out.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:19

Thank you to the internet. For me though, I think my favorite part of this movie, and it's like the one thing that is pretty consistent through both of them, is just how like badass Stevie is, just being like a kind of rogue doing her own radio thing, everyone in the town's into it. Um, all the guys want her, which I think is pretty interesting because half of them have never even seen what she looks like. Um but just like being like a a presence in the community while living inside of like a lighthouse or at least working inside of a lighthouse, I think is a really cool element, and it was probably my favorite part of the story.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:52

When you hear Selma Blair, you don't need to see her. You n you know what she's about. Oh, the voice is hot.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:57

Wasn't a fan of her voices TV. I felt like it was less of Selma Blair bringing her Selma Blairness to the role and more like Selma Blair trying to capture Adrian Barbeau from the first one. It was the s I hate the subtle slip into more of like a seductive voice. I absolutely hate that. It's like one of my pet peeves. And um I j I she did not do it for me at all as Stevie. Like I I like Selma Blair. I would have loved to see her in any other role in this movie, but I I did not like any bit of this Stevie. Maybe the fact that she wanted to go find her son, but even then that takes away from one of my favorite parts of Stevie from the original, like being useful to the town from where she was. But I suppose radio was dead in some ways. I do think one of the best parts of the remake, however, is that Tom Welling is very handsome, and that is as much of a compliment as I can pay.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:55

That's what I had as my best part was Tom Welling. Super hot. Um, in our notes, I put him topless if anyone noticed that.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:04

Have you seen Tom Welling playing uh Superman in Crisis of Infinite Earths?

SPEAKER_04 1:16:08

Yes, I have.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:09

I think he's aged well.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:10

Uh, there's a hotter Superman.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:12

Not comparing Superman, we're comparing Tom Welling old versus new. Okay, there we go.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:17

Okay, but we could compare Superman, Mac. Let us have fun.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:20

That's what the real episode is.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:22

Yeah, that's right. Yeah, Tom Welling is what Tom Atkins wishes he ever was.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:28

I it's okay, so I've tried to think about like a best part for 2005, and I'm really struggling. It's not that it's so bad, but it's so mediocre that it's really hard to pick something and say, like, wow, they really nailed that. Because while Tom Welling is great, Selma Blair is great, the rest of the casting is strange because we turned this into this teen movie, and in in the original, we didn't have that feeling. It was just like an everyone was there in the town kind of thing. There was a lot of a lot of people that weren't young in the town, and suddenly now everybody in this town is like 25 years old, and I don't understand why that's a thing.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:11

Millennials are killing the economy of Antonio Bay, they've invaded with a avocado toast.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:17

Yeah, I mean that that was a big issue for me, and they kind of nerfed the priest and and his whole like character arc and everything. Like his whole story is just like almost useless now in 2005, which is unfortunate. Um, I think the only thing that I would say would be the best part, and this is really small for me, would just be the fact that we got to see the story of the original like people on the ship and everything before they became ghosts, and we got to see them in the period, not just like a dreamy style flashback the whole time. Like the scenes where we we got that explanation of what actually happened to them, that was cool. I think if you want to show it, you might as well show it full on versus just telling the story like we did in 1980. I prefer telling the story and letting, you know, the viewer like make up the story in their brain and everything. But if you're gonna put it on screen, like do a good job, show us like full lighting and everything. I hate when you get a flashback and it's just like that weird, misty flashback garbage. So that'll say is the best part. They chose to put them on screen, but they showed them fully.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:22

So I have a question for y'all.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:25

For those who have had a one-night stand. Do you ask their name afterwards or before?

SPEAKER_00 1:18:33

It depends. If at all, usually before. Sometimes never.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:39

It's usually I'm like, hey. I mean, not that this happens very often, but I would assume it'd go, hey, I'm so and so. I'm so you might not remember, but at least she got the name beforehand.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:51

Yeah, there are some questionable decisions going on in in in both films, to be honest, by some of these characters. They made some weird choices, and it depends on which character we're talking about, but I I feel like Nick just generally makes some strange choices for his own film.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:08

Yeah, that's where I was going with. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:10

Like when we go into 1980, right, picking up a hitchhiker, hooking up with them, not even knowing who they are, what they're about. I mean, maybe he got through this whole thing and he had a beautiful time, and then Jamie Lee Curtis is like, oh, yo, what's up? I like to cut up people and put them into little boxes.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:26

Alicia, no fog ghost. What kind of point is this? And I'd love to live in that time where you'd pick up hitchhikers and hook up with them and and not be something you might be afraid of.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:37

Right. Or that why is the hitchhiker not afraid of it?

SPEAKER_04 1:19:39

Yeah, nah.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:41

And then when we make it to 2005, it's like, oh my gosh, I realize it's you, even though I didn't know it was you in the fog. You left suddenly. I was planning to propose, but you know what? We're good now. Let's get back together instantly, as if nothing ever happened.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:55

Yeah, and I couldn't tell if he was jerky or not, because like he is jerky. He was he was okay, yeah. Uh okay. My uh thoughts were uh proven.

SPEAKER_07 1:20:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:06

Especially when he didn't even know realize it was her. And I was like, man, what a dick.

SPEAKER_06 1:20:12

Like you know, it's not even the not realizing it's it's her because like it's dark, she has her hair up. It's the oh shit. It's like that's the the admission of guilt right there.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:23

Yeah, he could have turned that around if he was just being, you know, friendly about it, but instead he wasn't.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:29

He also turned on her so quickly when she's like explaining what's going on at that restaurant, and he's like, You're a crazy bitch, even though we've been so close for the past rest of this movie. Uh all of a sudden I don't believe anything you say. I was like, Really? What where's this coming from? That character was like so like brain dead to me.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:46

Yeah, there was some douche canoe vibes going on. And he didn't have to be that way, but he was he was swimming in the douche canoe.

SPEAKER_06 1:20:52

Truly. I think one that's one of the things that I was a little bummed about. I liked in the original that Nick played more of a background, right? He he was connected to the seagrass and and the and the sailors who were aboard it when shit went down in the fog. But aside from that, he's just another auxiliary character that doesn't demand so much attention, but with the way his character ships in the remake, we're just forced to suffer through him so much. And again, Tom Welling is very attractive, and on one hand it's eye candy, on the other hand, it's just come the fuck on already. You're boring, you're inconsistent, I'm not a fan of you. And you know, I'm I know I mentioned earlier just about like my detest of like how they how they treated Elizabeth's character. It makes what they did to Father Malone's character pale in comparison because they tried to swing so hard in making Elizabeth relevant to the actual town. One of the best bits about the original is looking at like how it parallels with the birds and how as soon as Tippy Hedron and as soon as Jamie Lee Curtis come into town, shit in natural phenomena starts to go down. And in this one, they try to give uh so much of a backstory to it that they mishandle it. And that's the danger with remakes, right? When you try to give your characters backstory, but you do too much, or you you aren't consistent in the way that you handle it, you end up ruining a lot of the story. Like with Stevie.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:23

Yeah, I wish Stevie, like I realized in the 1980s version she was an essential character, and this one, like, she wasn't. It felt like, and Chris, you're right, it just felt like they some people at one point were like the main characters, then they fell so they felt like they were the supporting cast. There was just like never the consistency, and I really felt like it sort of fell flat for me, and it felt very um just just another teen movie I was watching, you know, and it felt flat, and I just wish I had a little bit more to go off of for these characters, especially in the 2005 version.

SPEAKER_06 1:23:02

It's like when you're watching Glee and one day Quinn gets a main episode, the next week it's Santana, which rest in peace, the next week it's Artie, and the next week it's Tina, and it's like, come the fuck on, who's the main character of this show, huh?

SPEAKER_03 1:23:16

It's weird. I'm looking at IMDB right now. So for 1980, the first character listed is Stevie. Then when I go to 2005, the first character listed is Nick. The second character listed is Elizabeth, and then Stevie's third. It just sounds indicative of the movie, you know?

SPEAKER_06 1:23:32

Priorities were not in order.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:34

That's right. I mean, Stevie, like you mentioned in the first one, is like super helpful, is doing something, cares about her kid, is super proactive. In 2005, honestly, did she even need to be in the film? Not at all. And if you have if the if that's the answer to that to that question, just leave the character out rather than do them a disservice.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:53

I mean, there should have been a lot of characters that should have been left out, including Spooner. To me, I get he's there for comic relief. He was in certain scenes, was, but then it doesn't like he's not steady as a character, and I guess that does go back to like pick and choose what you want for what scene you want and not be consistent. And I you really pick up on that in this movie.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:16

Also, like the whole scene with him and the girls on the party boat. I was like, no.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:21

Trash, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:22

Though we did get that one guy like with a dagger in his eye.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:26

That that whole boat party scene reminded me of something, and I was trying to figure out what it was, and it was another remake, and it was Friday the 13th, and it was the whole like party near the lake and on the jet skis and all that kind of crap. And for s I mean, for some reason, what did they think was going on in the mid-2000s? Like, was every group of teenagers just out there partying at a lake or at a body of water?

SPEAKER_06 1:24:47

That's what I'm saying. Just at party.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:49

So accurate.

SPEAKER_06 1:24:50

So all that being said, and obviously the the characters are a uh a mixed bag, to say the least. But would you watch either of these movies again?

SPEAKER_03 1:24:59

For 1980, I would watch it with somebody else who hadn't seen it. For 2005, definitely no.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:05

Ditto, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:07

Uh-uh.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:07

I'm not watching either of these.

SPEAKER_06 1:25:09

Okay, you're killing me. I uh would absolutely watch and we'll continue to watch the 1980 version, but I'm probably gonna go back to the way things were in 2005 where I saw the remake and subsequently just immediately forgot it existed. But it sounds like we we've we've had some preferences this way either way, but which movie? I know Paris is gonna be a struggle for you with these shadows, which movie had the better visuals?

SPEAKER_03 1:25:34

1980.

SPEAKER_06 1:25:35

1980.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:36

2005.

SPEAKER_06 1:25:36

Do you want to say that shamefully a little bit louder or no? Okay, it's clearly the 1980 original, but really the question is what about the better approach to the story? 1980 for me.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:50

2005 for me, because they gave me more details. It up until the end, I liked how the role Elizabeth played in all of it.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:57

If they removed the whole Elizabeth thing and they didn't completely nerf Father Malone, they might have had a case for me, but it's still 1980.

SPEAKER_06 1:26:06

Yeah, no, for sure. They had the potential to be great, and then all of a sudden you have a ghost kiss of death, and it makes no fucking sense. So it's gonna be 1980, but what about the better performances? Definitely 1980.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:18

I mean, as much as like we've given Tom Atkins crap, I still think 1980 has better performances.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:24

Yeah, I feel like for the most part, none of the performances are particularly notable. The only one that really stands out is the original Stevie. So I'm gonna give it to the original.

SPEAKER_06 1:26:33

Wow. You love to see it. Clearly it's the 1980 for me. The 2005 remake has very weak performances, not not in an attribution to a measure of their talent, but rather a mishandling of their talent by the director and by the writers. But with that being said, the original 1980 The Fog wins out. Now, we don't usually have fact or fiction on our old versus new episodes, but our patron, Anthony, who nominated this movie, has given us a little curated treat.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:05

Yeah, let's jump right in here. Number one, the fog was once supposed to be the start of an anthology. And I'm talking about 1980 when it first happened.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:13

I'm gonna say fact, because it could be like the fog and then like the wind and like the rain.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:19

The earth, the fire.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:21

Yeah, I like this concept. I'm gonna say it is true. It's a fact.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:26

This is indeed a fact. So Carpenter confessed his desire to make a spin-off anthology TV series based on the film, centering on the titular fog as the primary menace in several other locations. The longer the series would have run, organic ties to the original film would have been revealed. Ultimately, and unfortunately, the idea was scrapped for the critically panned remake. Number two. Director Rupert Wainwright loved his use of CGI Fog in 2005.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:52

I'm sure after the fact he might have been like, eh, so I'm gonna say fiction.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:59

As somebody who Is his own biggest critic, I'm gonna say fiction as well. He probably looked back on it and was like, it could be better in all of these ways.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:08

This is indeed a fiction. In the commentary found in the DVD, Wayne Wrong, I mean Wayne Wright, expressed how much he does not like the look of the CGI fog banks rolling in and loves the look of when they use machines like in the original. And I'm glad we can all agree that that would have been the right move. Number three. Scenes at the end of the 1980 film, most notably post Stack at the Lighthouse, were filmed in reverse.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:31

Okay, I'm gonna say fact because I recall a scene where the fog is like retreating in uh in a shot, and I feel like they probably had to film that in reverse.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:42

I feel like I don't know the way fog works, but it sounds about right.

unknown 1:28:46

Fact.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:46

Yes, indeed, it's a fact. So Carpenter's Machines couldn't blow fog down and away from Adrian Barbo. So she was instructed to act her scene in reverse, relieved and then scared, and to be careful when she blinks.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:59

So there was a person in the scenes that were reverse. That's that's tough. Gotta be challenging.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:03

It reminds me of Tenet. I don't know if anyone's seen that yet, but I am curious while watching it. I'm sitting there watching, like, do they have to film it in reverse? Do they have to like walk backwards? I don't know how this works. But number four, for 2005, Selma Blair did most of her own stunts.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:16

Just gonna say fact. I don't even know what stunt she did. Oh well, I guess she was in the car. Never mind. Fiction now. Now that I remember that.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:26

Wait, we had another fact of fiction that was like an underwater car stunt, and it was like, did they do it on their own? And that one, they did not. So I'm gonna say Selma Blair did not do her own stunts, fiction.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:37

So this one's actually a fact. She's pulling a Tom Cruise here. Good for her. She did most of her own stunts. For her underwater scenes, she spent 12 hours in a water tank with only short surface breaks for two days straight.

SPEAKER_06 1:29:48

Okay. How must it feel for her to put her heart and soul into a performance that was ultimately lackluster and mediocre, thanks to everyone around her?

SPEAKER_03 1:29:57

Sad?

SPEAKER_06 1:29:58

Yeah. Feels bad.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:59

Feels bad, man. We've talked about some inspiration. So let's talk about number five here from the 1980. John Carpenter's The Fog was also inspired by the novella The Mist, written by Stephen King.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:10

No, because Chris already referenced what it was based on, so I'm gonna say fiction.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:16

I'm gonna say fact because my boyfriend just made me watch The Mist, and I thought it was The Fog, and then I saw that we were doing this, and I was like, oh, I just watched that, great, and then it turns out it was The Mist. So these two are very, very similar.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:29

Fact. They do seem similar in title, but the novella by the King of Horror and the film from the Master of Horror have nothing to do with each other. They did come out the same year though, and The Fog was quickly novelized later in 1980, the same year as the film's release, under the same name, The Fog. They sure blurred together in my mind. And to wrap up, we're gonna go with one more here. For the 1980 film, of course, because it's the better film, in my opinion. My humble opinion. But the film shares a special connection with Alfred Hitchcock's The Birds. I know what you did last summer, and the Goonies.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:01

Totally fact.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:03

Chris mentioned the connection to the birds, and I totally see that. I also was getting I know what you did last summer vibes with like the hook of it all. I've never seen the Goonies though, so I'm gonna take a risk. Two out of three, fact.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:16

Oh this is Who Wants to be a Millionaire? That'd be a real big gamble, buddy.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:20

Yeah. I don't know. Can I ask the audience? Phone in. Go back in time and phone us the answer. Um yeah, this is a fact. So Bodega Bay is used uh as a location in all of these films. And honestly, you should definitely Google Bodega Bay right now, because it's pretty gorgeous. Just saying. Should we take a trip to Bodega Bay?

SPEAKER_06 1:31:42

Ooh, what a great fourth birthday that would be.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:44

That'd be a lot of fun, except we need to decide who's driving safely around all those turns.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:48

Just saying.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:48

There you go.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:49

As long as I get to wear a green coat and like take a boat across the bay.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:53

With lovebirds in the passenger seat and a blonde wig.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:56

You're already blonde. You know the wig.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:58

I'll allow it. Because, you know, wig game strong. Why not? And that's been factor fiction. Thank you again to Anthony for providing that beautiful amount of information. There was even more, but we did limit it to uh keep it fast.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:10

Oh, absolutely. And if you too want to provide factor fiction and a nominated film, you can um be a patron. We'll be uh sharing some details with you shortly. But for now, there you have it, folks. The fog from 1980 has earned three slashes and one hack, while its 2005 remake has earned a universal hack. So we've had a lot to talk about here. Obviously, we haven't even scratched the surface of what both of these movies have to offer. So we want to know what you think and we want to hear what your thoughts are on both of these films. Keep in mind there are a number of ways you can reach out to us, starting with our website, hackerslash.com.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:42

And on our social media accounts on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. And if you would like to explain to me how fog works and also how fog machines work, you can reach out to our Hackerslash Hotline. You can leave us a voicemail at 757-606-0128 or visit hackerslash.com slash contact to leave us an audio message.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:05

Or if you think I'm wrong about the 1980 movie being better than the 2005, you can send us an email to feedback at hackerslash.com.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:13

I'm sending an email right now. If you've enjoyed listening to this episode, thank our patrons and consider becoming one of them. You can visit patreon.com slash hacker slash to earn cool perks for as low as one dollar a month, and you can help vote and decide what our next patron pick is.

SPEAKER_06 1:33:27

We'll see you next time, folks, and remember, look for the fog. Bye.