SPEAKER_03 0:04

Yeah, let me catch a tony ton.

SPEAKER_02 0:11

Greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hacker Slash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. The mirror invites you to summon him. If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack, a total joke, a waste of time, or a slash.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

Totally killer, pun intended.

SPEAKER_02 0:30

We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, we're rating these movies with a perspective we've all gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast. This week I'm joined by the Superfly Space Guy Mac, Candyman, the Coward of the Cooper Ryan, Candyman, Candyman, and the Scream Queen Paris.

SPEAKER_04 0:50

Candyman.

SPEAKER_02 0:51

Candyman. Ah, well, we're still alive. This week we're exploring a newly released film, a spiritual sequel to a 1992 classic that has long been awaited, particularly after its theatrical release was delayed last year. Before we see what all the buzz is about, though, we have some follow-up.

SPEAKER_04 1:08

So we recently reviewed the Netflix original Fear Street 1994, which is the first in the trilogy. Now, those of you who have listened to the episode know that I was not there, and only our patrons know the reason why. However, we wanted to hear from our listeners nonetheless. We actually polled our audience and we had once again so many voters this time, and actually only 5% of voters hacked this. The other 95% gave it a slash, which says a lot about this movie.

SPEAKER_03 1:34

I love that because I do feel like Fear Street is really having its moment on Netflix.

SPEAKER_02 1:39

It really is, and honestly, I'm so glad the patrons nominated this because I think it wouldn't have been until at least October before we were able to get it into the lineup.

SPEAKER_04 1:48

Yeah, and it really just makes me regret even more that I was not on that episode because everybody had so many great things to say about it. Including Marshall on Twitter, who said, I screamed when I saw this on Patreon. My partner and I binged all three when they came out. So happy to hear y'all. Mostly love it. The colors, the gore, the music, the tension, the villains, chef's kiss. Literally all came together perfectly. Now we need two and three ASAP. Love y'all.

SPEAKER_03 2:09

Yes, and we're definitely getting to two and three, which I'm very excited for. As you guys know, I've already seen two, but I'm dying to finish the series and get it all together.

SPEAKER_04 2:18

Yeah, I think my partner and I are gonna have to binge all three of them very soon. We have another comment from one of our friends on Facebook, Jason, who said, This, I don't know. I think if you're a younger person, we'll hit dead on. As a 40-year-old, I honestly was bored. It felt like a recycling of old horror films and one other really odd feel to me. It was very erratic in its target audience.

SPEAKER_03 2:36

Wow, Mac, do you relate to that feeling?

SPEAKER_01 2:38

I do. I actually I you know what? Thank you so much for sharing that comment because finally I'm not alone in the world.

SPEAKER_02 2:45

And that's when I learned that Jason, who we've known and loved for so long, is actually just Mac's burner account, and that makes me sad.

SPEAKER_03 2:54

The account where Mac pretends to be a real person. Yep.

SPEAKER_04 2:58

Yeah, Jason definitely hacked that movie. We have another comment from Anna who said, I'm freaking out. I was just thinking while watching these, man, I hope my lovely hacker slash fam reviews this. Screaming. This series is without a doubt one of the best scary movie series made in the last decade. Plot? Perfect. Casting, impeccable. Character development, check, check, check. I think it's genius how this three-part series tied together so well. The editing and visuals were stunning. Love, love, love Dina and how she's portrayed as a badass woman. Definitely have a huge crush on her. She's absolutely stunning and fit this role so well. I also love the normalcy with the lesbian relationship.

SPEAKER_02 3:30

Ooh, yes, Anna, you're speaking to my heart, and it's so good to hear from you. I hope all is well with you.

SPEAKER_04 3:35

Yeah, honestly, all of the comments that everyone's made make me just realize, like, I definitely want to watch this movie. It sounds fun, it sounds gay, it sounds like a good time. But there's one comment that came up a couple times that has me really curious to watch this. And here's an example. Somebody on Instagram said, I can never look at how to cut bread the same ever again. Surprisingly enjoyed this movie. And as somebody who hasn't seen that, like, what could that mean?

SPEAKER_03 3:59

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 4:00

You will truly never be prepared, okay? And what I love is just remembering now, because you know, for our audience, Paris listens to every single episode back to quality check things to make sure I didn't fuck up an edit. Bless his heart. And he listened to the first half of the episode and verified he still feels like nothing was spoiled for him. So I'm realizing there's so much greatness that you have yet to even experience.

SPEAKER_04 4:24

Honestly, Chris, I love that you think that I still listen to the episodes for quality assurance when really I'm just a fan of our podcast.

SPEAKER_03 4:30

I think you just want to hear your own voice, but that's okay too.

SPEAKER_04 4:33

I want to hear mostly my voice, but also all the things we talked about because I completely forget the entire conversation the moment it's done.

SPEAKER_03 4:39

But also the great news here, Paris, is you're not gonna have a choice and you are gonna have to watch these movies.

SPEAKER_04 4:45

And I look forward to it.

SPEAKER_03 4:46

Good. You should.

SPEAKER_04 4:48

And right before we wrap up our follow-up, I want to thank one of our newest patrons, Thomas. Thomas, thank you so much for your support. You, like myself, are a big fan of the podcast, and I really appreciate you reaching out to us. If you want to reach out even more, you can call the hackerslash hotline. You can hit us up on Twitter, Instagram, or Facebook, or even on the Patreon page, and we can chat with you directly, or you can get one of your comments read on a future episode. And that's our follow-up.

SPEAKER_02 5:11

Well, in August 2019, Principal Photography began for a film that would seek to expand the mythology of a famed boogeyman. While originally slated for theatrical release in June 2020, the film was ultimately delayed several times due to COVID-19 and released at the end of August 2021. This film revisits the grounds of Cabrini Green, now gentrified, and explores one artist's journey of self-discovery and uncovering the history of the community's greatest legend. This week, we're talking about Nia DaCosta's handyman. Now we last visited this franchise in episode 93 where the 1992 film earned a universal slash, and in that episode we all expressed a great deal of excitement for this film, and there's a link to that episode in the show notes if you want to prime yourself for this movie in this episode. But let's go ahead and get started. What were you all expecting going into this?

SPEAKER_03 5:57

I mean, can we overstate how high our expectations were for this movie? I think we've all been thinking about this for over a calendar year. I wanted just an incredible version of Candyman in the modern times.

SPEAKER_01 6:11

I can add that my expectations are a bit wishy-washy, okay? So, like, obviously, Candyman we all love, right? So therefore your expectations should be high. But that tells me then that my expectations should be low because I don't want to be disappointed if it's not everything it lives up to be. So I'm going into this not knowing what to expect, you know, in terms of the story. I knew Tony Todd was listed as part of the cast, but I wasn't sure if we'd get a retcon, a reboot, a continuation, or just another Candyman sequel. So I just I didn't want to be let down because I wanted it to be so good.

SPEAKER_04 6:41

That is very smart of you, Mac. I applaud that approach. However, did not take it myself. I was super excited for this movie. After falling in love with the first one and having no idea that I would like it as much as I did, I was very excited to see what that would look like with Jordan Peel and also a female director, Nia DeCosta, behind the wheel. So I had really high hopes for this. And once I found out that Chris and Ryan somehow won us free passes to see the premiere, I was like super stoked.

SPEAKER_02 7:08

Oh yeah, I was stoked as well. And I cannot really overstate how excited I was to be able to not only see this in theaters, but to see it with all of you in theaters because it's a different experience when you're not going to see it alone, I feel. You know, I went in expecting this to be absurdly good, which may not have been fair to walk in with. I try to be fairly even keel, but there's no way I'm not gonna be excited for this movie. And as I mentioned back in episode 93, I learned last year about the direction this film was gonna take and some of the ways it was gonna connect to the original film. So I walked in with the expectation that we'd be getting some classic Candyman action, and I expected incredible kills, and I expected to be hitting my feelings again and again and again. And I think that largely aligned with what we got. This movie is packed with great kills that don't go overboard for me. I I feel like they really walked a fine line there that I found satisfying. We get really deep connections to the first film and and the mythology of it, and we get a new cast of characters that still feel mostly consistent with the world we knew from the original. I laughed a lot and I cringe with some of the violence, but then there's one point in the movie, a point we'll discuss here in a bit, that stopped me in my tracks and it struck me. And it actually made me have to sit and think about how I felt for several days.

SPEAKER_01 8:26

Wow, that's a powerful experience.

SPEAKER_04 8:28

Yeah, honestly, it's been a few days since I've seen it, and I can't think of what that moment could be.

SPEAKER_03 8:34

You just don't know Chris well enough, okay? Because I know immediately.

SPEAKER_04 8:38

I will say though, watching it in theaters with some of my best podcast friends was something that was really enjoyable. And I felt like it was a classic, like it felt pre-pandemic, it felt like a bunch of friends going to see a horror movie. The movie was entertaining, the crowd was really great, it had good energy, and I feel like overall it was very exciting. It had like an electricity to the experience while watching. And maybe that's because we saw like an exclusive screening. Maybe not.

SPEAKER_03 9:04

Yes, so I think we're kind of skimming over what happened here for our listeners who aren't on Patreon and didn't hear our whole story. So Chris, Paris, his partner, and I were able to go see an early screening of this movie, which added to the excitement that was already so built up. And I I can't even really communicate how excited I was to see this movie and to see it a few days early was just so cool, so special, and to see it with people that I love. I will say, while I was watching this movie, Paris' partner and I had previously talked about how much we love talking during movies. I'm such a chatterbox. That's part of why Chris likes to watch movies with me, is because I'm just out here talking trash about everyone. And I was notably silent during this movie. You were. Yeah, because it's such an experience, it's such a feeling. There's so much going on in this movie that I didn't even really have a lot to say because I was just like processing, but I was on the edge of my seat the whole time.

SPEAKER_01 10:00

I do think you have to factor in your experience in the theater watching this film because like when did the first Candyman come out? Nearly 30 years ago. So nearly 30 years of anticipation, right? That's just like built up. I mean, not for everyone. Some of you only saw this movie within the last couple years, the the original, but neither here nor there. I mean, for others, there's 30 years of anticipation, and now you're in the theater, which is weird considering the world and the pandemic and everything going on. But now you're here and you're eating some popcorn. In my case, you're eating a large basket of french fries because they're delicious, and you're sitting in comfortable seats, and you're sitting around other people, and you're hearing them respond to what's going on in the movie. So I think overall I was just consistently entertained. There is just a really good balance of chaos and sanity, storytelling, character development, and humor. And that's what you want from a moviegoing experience. That's what makes it better than just sitting at home on your couch and watching it on TV.

SPEAKER_03 10:51

It was so nice to sneak food into the theater again. It really feels good, you know.

SPEAKER_02 10:55

Yeah, honestly, there hasn't been a single theatrical release I've gone to with Ryan where she doesn't bring some form of chicken into the theater.

SPEAKER_03 11:03

I really am a chicken tendy, chicken nuggy kind of girl. That's what I love about you.

SPEAKER_02 11:08

And, you know, thinking about how electric Paris, like you described that that experience was, I think one of the best elements of it was how it managed to do something that I didn't walk in expecting, which was, you know, in my mind, Tony Todd has always been synonymous with Candyman. There is no other Candyman. You say Candyman, you think hella tall, hella deep voice, Tony Todd, an icon, a legend. Sexy.

SPEAKER_04 11:33

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 11:33

Sure. Debatable. And I was surprised by how well this movie managed to actually separate the two for me. So I still very distinctly have Tony Todd Candyman, but this movie made me just embrace the idea of Candyman separate from Tony Todd in a way that I wasn't ready for. And you know, at first, when we just get glimpses of Candyman in this movie, I I was a little taken aback, but once the full reason for that shift gets explored, it makes so much damn sense and it makes him feel even more powerful.

SPEAKER_03 12:06

Chris, I totally agree. I really didn't expect to have Tony Todd in this movie until Paris had mentioned it. And I was like, oh my gosh, of course, like we'll get some Tony Todd. And so when you're there waiting for Tony Todd, and then you don't get him, it takes a shift, it takes a moment for you to like kind of readjust. But you're so right where this movie feels so different. And I was so surprised in a good way by that. It's obviously not a remake, which I think is important, but at the same time, it's a sequel in a way, it's like a it's like a separated sequel. It doesn't feel the same in a sense of like you're picking it up, you know, it's not Friday the 13th, you're picking up the day after the last movie, but it doesn't feel so separated that you don't get the satisfaction of how much you love the original Candyman versus this one. It's a very interesting dynamic that we have here.

SPEAKER_01 12:52

I think it does a good job of having the difference in time feel like a difference in time. And a lot of movies, you do have that, like, you know, the feeling of they could have made all the movies right back to back and just said the year was 30 years later, and you'd be like, okay, sure, whatever. But this one feels like that difference where, like, you know, our our parents would have watched this at a little bit above our age. And then we're getting, you know, to watch this new movie now. No, so they they would have seen the original, we would be able to hear it from them. We would watch it in our in our teens and stuff, and then we would get a feeling of it. And then you come into this and you get this very different feeling. It feels like someone else is telling the story that you heard your parents tell you, and now you're getting new details and you're getting new vibes from it. And honestly, I was I was really surprised by how they were able to tie back to a lot of the feelings of the original movie. I think they did such a good job with things like flashbacks and exposition to where you could go into this and you could watch it having not seen the original movie and still get a great experience, but having seen the original, it's kind of really value-added.

SPEAKER_03 13:53

Yeah, and the way they do that in this movie really adds to the legend of Candyman, which is also amazing.

SPEAKER_04 13:59

I definitely agree. I feel like having only seen the original, and now this sequel was like the ideal circumstances when watching this, because I think maybe if I had seen so many movies with Candyman as Tony Todd, I would have been like a little maybe tainted. Um, but Ryan, like I like you said, I was definitely expecting a lot more Tony Todd, and I gotta say, I was disappointed that I didn't get it. But I think what we got instead was satisfying in a way that I didn't expect, and that was nice.

SPEAKER_02 14:27

Yeah. I mean, even thinking about Tony Todd, I said it back in the day, you know, the 1992 Candyman scared the hell out of me as a kid, and I mentioned it as well that Tony Todd is a reason that I have this like subconscious fear of really deep voices looking at you, Mac.

SPEAKER_00 14:43

Oh no.

SPEAKER_02 14:45

I think given that, and given that we don't get the Tony Todd Candyman in full force, you know, right up in your face in this movie. And I think a lot of people will still have moments where they feel some type of fear. I wasn't, you know, I feel like Tony Todd as Candyman scared me, and I know other candy man can really scare me. But here's what this movie did instead, though. This made me feel horror in a way that tapped less into fear and more into empathy. And that I think is the beauty of how this movie approaches its its role in the horror genre.

SPEAKER_03 15:19

See, I think that's so funny because actually for me, I feel like the previous Candyman, I spent the whole time swooning over Tony Todd, which is a killer. And I really shouldn't be attracted to people who kill people. And so this one having less of the Tony Todd for Candyman actually was more frightening to me, especially because after we watched this movie, Chris then photoshopped Candyman into a bunch of my photos and creeped me out and making me think he was stalking me. So there's that. But I think there's a different feeling to the horror in this movie than the original. It's it's totally different in the way they approach it.

SPEAKER_04 15:55

Honestly, it might come as no surprise, but I think that the fear that I felt during this was the more basic kind and less of the empathy kind, Chris. We sort of watch this character go through like a full breakdown that has like both mental, physical, and even like psychological ramifications. And that was very scary to me. Now my question is, is that empathy?

SPEAKER_02 16:14

I think you're feeling things in a way where like your fear is on behalf of someone else and acknowledging the pain and and what they're enduring, versus what I was re referencing is traditional jump scare horror where you're like, oh my god, the gore, it's so scary. What is this figure looming in the background? Whereas like this one really just punches you in your feelings and twists around your little notes of empathy or uh your your poor sentiments to really manipulate your feelings.

SPEAKER_04 16:45

Well, in that case, then I agree. But there were definitely some moments of jump scare that got me too.

SPEAKER_01 16:49

I think this film would have hit differently had it released at the original release date. Everything going on in 2020, I I think a lot of people would have had a very different experience when it comes to to horror because we lived through a lot of horrors in 2020. And I I don't know. I I think it wasn't scary in the traditional sense of I'm not scared of Candyman. Like I don't I'm not worried about saying his name five times into a mirror. It's a it's a character from a movie. So again, not concerned. Also, ghosts aren't real. We've said this, you know, I've said this a thousand times, but I'm not concerned about that kind of horror. So of course that part wasn't scary to me, but I think about like the the significance of everything going on in our country that's been going on for hundreds of years, and I think there is true terror involved there, and we went through a lot in 2020 in America, and this film touches on those themes, and so I think it's still significant in 2021, of course, but it would have been right in the height of a of a just a national awareness last year had it released at the same time.

SPEAKER_02 17:45

Oh yeah, think of the trailer using Destiny's Child Say My Name when everyone was saying everyone's name, right? Like there's just something about that that that's so powerful.

SPEAKER_03 17:56

Yeah, so I was having kind of a similar thought, and I saw an interview where Yaya was talking about how this would have hit last year versus this year, and made a comment about how you could pick a hundred times in our history where this would hit perfectly, and because now is not the same as last year, doesn't take away from its meaning and its impact and everything. I thought that was very interesting because I felt the same way as you, Mac, where I felt like this would have been a very different movie last year, but at the same time, it does still have an impact in 2021.

SPEAKER_02 18:30

And he had a separate interview where he talked about how the lure of horror is there for entertainment, but this movie is able to pack an emotional punch in talking about how relevant it is to so many people's lived experiences. I'm gonna drop a link in the show notes to an article where he's interviewed and Nia DeCosta's interviewed, and they reference how this movie concludes, and they really look back on the symbolism of the entire approach to this story, and it is absolutely beautiful.

SPEAKER_04 19:02

I totally agree. I feel like the way that this movie built upon the original was very original, and they did it in such a way that I didn't expect and I didn't really think was possible, but there's almost like a shift in your perspective on Candyman as like a cultural icon, and it's almost like a reclamation of power that I didn't know could be reclaimed.

SPEAKER_01 19:22

Yeah, you know, this film really kind of taps into the zeitgeist of the last few years where you're able to relate back to something that happened 20 to 30 years ago, but you can retell a modern version of that, right? And you can kind of tie back to the historical significance and the lasting cultural impact. But you know, I think films in the early 90s were highlighting a different sort of impact on society, and we haven't forgotten that, but we're now we're going a little bit deeper, and I think that makes it even more interesting. Like it's not, it's not about like, is this a completely different Candyman movie with, you know, a completely different plot and whatever. Who cares, right? We're we're going into the depths of like living in America. And I I think it's nice that we're able to step into kind of a different part of that.

SPEAKER_02 20:03

Absolutely. And even considering when we watched the 1992 Candyman last year and we talked about this, we talked about how that movie came on the heels of Rodney King. And we talked about its relevance with gentrification and how it approached the racial dynamics of that area, right? We we talked about that. But in this one, we get similar topics, and then we also have the mythology of Candyman being expanded in a really interesting way. And he was explored, you know, as an urban legend in the first one, and we got to see one physical representation of him. But this film takes a really interesting turn to broaden the scope of his reach, which makes me just completely mind blown. I did not expect any approach like that when you know walking into okay, what does a sequel to Candyman look like? When I mentioned earlier that I I found the direction that some of it was going to take, it was largely centered around who the main character is and what they do, but nothing about anything else about the story. And it was such a pleasant surprise.

SPEAKER_03 21:05

Yeah, I feel like this movie for Candyman is original. I don't know if it's like the most original movie I've ever seen in my life, but it's not what I expected out of Candyman this time around.

SPEAKER_01 21:15

Yeah, and I think that goes all the way from start to finish. You know, when we get to the ending, I will say I thought it was okay. I think it was fitting for the film. Not quite as large of a spectacle as we get in the original film, but you know, the stakes seem much more personal than we get because of that. And there's this this ever-present theme of like destiny that we get in this movie, and you might feel different ways about it. I feel it was a bit more told than it was earned, but it's there and it can be discussed, and I think that that's still important.

SPEAKER_04 21:45

Mac, that's a really interesting point that you pose. And I would love to unpack that further after this break. But for me, I think the ending had a few surprises that I won't say were the most welcome, but Overall, I think it was a like if this was the Olympics and gymnastics, I will say they pretty much stuck the landing.

SPEAKER_03 22:06

You know, Paris, that's not a bad way to describe it because unwelcome is the perfect thing to say about some of the things that happen in this ending. And I don't dislike the ending of this movie, but I definitely left the movie theater and was like, where am I? What happened? How did I get here? And do I have to stay here? It really is not a twist, a surprise. I don't know. Things do not go the way you might expect them to go in this movie. But I think overall, it's a good ending. It's certainly not like an ending that ruins the movie, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_02 22:40

Absolutely. I would 100% agree with that. It's not one that tasted good the first second you experience it. But the more I've sat on it and the more I've reflected on it, the more I've come to appreciate some of the decisions that are made. I do want to go back to theaters and watch this movie though before it ends its run. Because there's a moment where, you know, some folks enter a space, something happens, and the camera pulls back, and I feel like my mind is playing tricks on me about what I did or I didn't see. And that is a really interesting thing. But I think I think my my lack of certainty comes from how emotional that moment is and how much it distracts you. And there's some mechanics that I don't agree with, but I think overall it's the ending that was necessary to get to get the message that Nia DeCosta and Jordan Peel and their like co-writer was looking for.

SPEAKER_01 23:31

Yeah, there's a very obvious ending that they could have gone for, I think, or a couple that you could say, but I don't think that you would have the same takeaways. I think it would have been a completely different movie had they changed the ending. Whereas I think with the ending we get, like it, it it fits the rest of the film and it makes the most sense, and you can walk away thinking about certain things. And I'm so well, I think it was okay. I think I'm glad that they went with it, Chris, because you you do get that like succinct message.

SPEAKER_02 23:58

Well, while that ending may have been powerful, it certainly uh I think will be received differently by folks, and and maybe enough to sway your final lasting impression of this movie. But before we get into the ratings, we have a little bit of housekeeping to do. Mac, how many people died in this movie?

SPEAKER_01 24:16

You know, when there's a hook for a hand involved, you expect a high number. I don't think we were disappointed with the kills here. We have a good 16 with an asterisk.

SPEAKER_03 24:24

What about the animal report? You know, for the number of bees that we see in this movie, our animal report is surprisingly clear.

SPEAKER_02 24:31

Yeah, we only saw one bee casualty, which is impressive. Well, all things considered, let's go ahead and get into our ratings. Candyman from 2021. Is it a hacker or slash?

SPEAKER_04 24:41

So obviously I had really high expectations going into this movie, and this may have something to do with the circumstances under which I saw it. I was with friends, it was a very exciting night with a bunch of horror people in a theater. But I'm totally gonna slash this movie because it really didn't miss the mark in very many ways at all. It delivered a fresh interpretation of a story that we all know. It delivered something unexpected. I was still a little scared, I was still surprised, and I felt like if you've never seen Candyman before and you're like 16, 17 years old going to see this for the first time, you can have an incredible experience, just like the people did 30 years ago when the original Candyman came out. I loved a lot of the characters, the way they balanced humor in this in a way that I wasn't anticipating. And I think everybody's performances were super lived in, which made you more invested in the characters. And as a result, the things that happened to the characters felt that much more impactful. So this movie did a lot of things really well for me. I have a few small complaints, but really I'm just complaining to hear my own voice with those. So this is definitely a slash for me.

SPEAKER_03 25:44

Paris, I can agree with a lot of what you said. I think one thing that cannot be understated here is the aesthetic of Candyman as a whole. The bees, the hook. Like everything about Candyman from its inception and through this movie is just beautiful to watch and creepy in the best way. And I think that's one of the number one things for me that I can't take anything away from for this movie is how it looks. Every single bit of this is beautiful. The characters, like you said, Paris, are a really, really positive part of this. The acting is amazing. The stories are believable, real, lived in, like you said. There are some things story-wise that I don't love, but I'm not a filmmaker, and I don't think it's my place to make decisions about what should or shouldn't be in a movie. They took a very specific direction with this, and it wasn't what I expected at all. And I'm okay with that. I don't love it, but I do really like this movie as a whole. I really want people to watch it. I really want people to pay attention to it and get something from it. I want to talk to people about it. I'm excited about it. So it's a definite slash. It's not perfect. Nothing's perfect, you know? I could have done a little more Tony Todd, but at the same time, we get Yaya in this movie who's amazing to look at, okay? So we didn't get Tony Todd, but we got something else, okay? This movie is a special thing that isn't exactly what I expected, and that's even more exciting, I think.

SPEAKER_01 27:13

I'm just happy to say that this wasn't some overly gritty reboot of the original film or some half-hearted sequel. This was a proper recontextualization of a legendary film and a legendary character. You know, legend itself has been a central focus of Candyman, and this iteration has really effectively used the power of legend and intergenerational storytelling to bring a revitalized, poignant meaning to a nearly 30-year-old film and film franchise, really. I think it's a hook-handed slash across the throat.

SPEAKER_02 27:43

There are a few things to unpack in in all these responses, but let me first start by saying this is obviously a slash. Ryan, you mentioned how you know they went in a very specific direction, and you're not a filmmaker, so it's not your place to say what should or shouldn't be in these movies. And I think that's an interesting thing to bring up, right? Because obviously it's a horror movie review podcast. Obviously, you listen to any episode we've ever had, and we will have a lot of critiques about what should or shouldn't have happened in these movies. Just recently we reviewed The Evil Dead, and there's a scene in that that I was like, absolutely had no purpose in this movie. But the thing about this movie, and what makes it such a great slash, is that even the choices I don't agree with are absolutely intentional and have a clear point. And I think that is just the power of the writing and the directing and the performances that went into it. And, you know, earlier we talked about the separation of Tony Todd and Candyman. And think of any other franchise that does that successfully. Did not happen in a nightmare on Elm Street, did not happen in Halloween. But this is a movie that successfully honors the lore, expands on the lore, and makes it so much bigger than just one guy. And that is something that I've never really seen pulled off successfully in horror. So, with that, Candyman from 2021, the spiritual sequel, has earned a Universal Slash. Now you can catch this movie in theaters, go check it out. You don't want to miss it, you don't want to wait for rental on this one. Then join us in the second half so we can say his name together. We'll see you in a bit.

SPEAKER_00 29:28

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SPEAKER_02 30:44

So, Mac, in Alexis' absence, what's the gore score?

SPEAKER_01 30:47

You know, this one's a difficult one to pin down because when you do get gore, it's good gore, right? But you don't get so much that you're overwhelmed. So it's not a low, it's not a high. We're gonna call it a nice, happy medium.

SPEAKER_03 30:57

It's like a classy gore, if you will.

SPEAKER_02 31:00

Yeah, exactly. I mean, I'm not someone who likes a lot of viciousness, but this was just violent enough, and there's enough thick, viscous blood pouring down enough for me to be satisfied, but not overwhelmed.

SPEAKER_01 31:14

Yeah, I think we you know, we have a couple good kills here, and the kills that we get make sense, considering the fact that we're talking about Candyman. You know, we don't have a lot of random kills with objects found in houses. We have a proper use of the hook. I think we have some great throat slits going on, you know, we have some slashes across bodies, which makes sense, and we have some like kills that are like shown off camera a little bit, and then we have a couple that are dragged onto the camera, especially when we have the schoolgirls doing the chant in in the restroom. I think that was a really effective sequence of kills because we see some of them getting killed kind of in the corner of the eye, you know, through that mirror. And I I love the way that they use the mirrors in this film to show you without having to show you. It was very effective to the point where now Chris will never look in a mirror. And I can't wait to hear about your favorite kills because where are mirrors the most? In bathrooms. So I uh I think it's pretty amazing that we're able to see a lot of kills happening in bathrooms or related to mirrors in hallways leading down to bathrooms. So yeah, what are your favorite kills?

SPEAKER_03 32:17

I'm sorry, do bathroom kills excite you?

SPEAKER_01 32:19

Apparently. Not at all. But if you have a killer, right, that shows up in mirrors, where do we all go to chant? We all go to the bathroom mirror. It just makes the most sense.

SPEAKER_04 32:30

Ryan knows from visiting recently that my house is filled with mirrors in every room.

SPEAKER_03 32:34

Very, very true. For me, mine is actually not one that we see happen in a mirror per se, but it is is Finlay Stevens, and mostly because she sucked so much, and I cannot stand somebody who hates you or doesn't want to show you any love until you do something special. And then they're all, oh, everything you're doing is so special and meaningful. I just really want to get a read on you. I really want to promote your work, please. Kiss my butt. I hated it. And the scene that we get with that camera pulling back from her apartment building and her smeared across, I mean, not her blood, literally her body smeared across the windows in that place. Absolutely beautiful, truly poetic, in a way that I didn't know Candyman could be, and I adored it.

SPEAKER_04 33:21

I love that kill so much too, Ryan. That woman was guilty of so many microaggressions that they fully amounted to several macroaggressions, and she was very racist, whether she knew it or not. And seeing her die in such a artistic way was very satisfying.

SPEAKER_03 33:35

It was beautiful.

SPEAKER_04 33:36

Another very artistic kill that I enjoyed has to be Clive and Jerrica, the couple who were like, let's bang in the museum. And the reason I love that is because it's the first time we get like the true Candyman kill in the movie. And it comes kind of late in the movie. It's not like an opening scene that you would expect it to be, but the way they're both absolutely brutalized, and you can kind of see it from all these different perspectives, like in the reflection, you can see it like through the silhouette, and you can see the way Candyman is just absolutely tearing through the two of them for being kind of douchey. I was like, whoa, we're getting a lot of brutality in this movie, and I can't wait to see what else they do.

SPEAKER_03 34:11

And just like the dead body clasped to his belt loop.

SPEAKER_02 34:16

Oh my gosh. Yeah. Oh, and then you had the hook going through his like Achilles tendon area to drag him.

SPEAKER_01 34:23

Yeah. I'm gonna say my favorite kill is actually a series of kills, and that is the police at the end of the film. I think the whole sequence of events like has a very like action movie kind of feel to it. But it's interesting when we get people who don't believe in Candyman affected by Candyman, right? So like a lot of people are like, oh, let's say his name into the mirror and see what happens. And then they're like, oh crap, he's real, now I'm dying, and I should have expected this. But the police show up, right? And they don't know nothing about Candyman. They don't care, but he still gets his revenge. And I love that it was super effective. The way he took him out was very fast and very effective. But I think the best part of that is the final police kill we get at the very end, just absolutely demolished. You think he gets away, like he's running, he's out there, and then we catch up with him a little bit and he's gone. That that that cop is down. I'm not wishing any ill will, you know, towards police officers. I'm just saying, like, these cops in this particular film were taken out with just some some great justice, honestly.

SPEAKER_02 35:20

Yeah, particularly when you have Anthony summoned as candyman. He's circling around, you see the reflections of different candy men, and this comes on the heel of a cop trying to coerce her into saying she was either an accomplice or it was all his fault, so that they had justification for killing him. It was a wild moment, obviously the end where you have Tony Todd. I don't know how you guys felt about the CGI. I didn't mind it at all, but also I loved Leia being in Rogue One from Star Wars, so I'm totally for DH CGI. But I think that was a really interesting one to pick, Mac, because it really is the moment that Candyman shifts from the villain that I think we thought that we think people feared in the 1992 one. He's he referred to the residents of Cabrini Green as his congregation, but people feared Candyman and they stopped saying his name afterward, right? After the events of that film. And in this one, he's summoned as her protector and he gets vengeance. And he's a martyr in a sense. So that's a really interesting one to pick. For me, my favorite one is gonna be the first that sparks the bathroom kills in the school, and that's Booth, who like runs back to grab something from the counter after they say Candyman, they're locked in the bathroom. And when one of the other girls just lays down on the floor to look underneath the stalls and just sees that thick blood start just dripping down in like a nice sheet of blood. I don't know how you can do this to a body and get that effect, but it was beautiful. Absolutely love that. I don't want to find out.

SPEAKER_04 36:55

Oh, it's gotta be a clean throat slit.

SPEAKER_02 36:58

But it also has to be like her neck, like she must have been bent over clean throat slit and then it falling straight down versus falling down her body. Like she had to have been bent over.

SPEAKER_03 37:10

I'm actually thinking like femoral artery or something. You know, one of a big one of the big boys.

SPEAKER_01 37:16

Oh yeah, there was there was a big something cut there because I was surprised by that. Because when you when you first see it, you expect the blood to happen, right? But you mentioned that like sheet that you get, and I was like, what the heck is going on right now? Because that looks like gelatinous. There's just so much blood happening all at once.

SPEAKER_02 37:33

Yeah, that's a really weird moment, Mac. And I think that mystique is what makes that my favorite kill because it's like your your mind is running a thousand miles a minute trying to figure out how the fuck that's possible. But then what I love about that kill sequence is how much we get of it in the mirror of a little clamshell. And the way this movie uses reflections is just bar none, the best thing visually about it, from my perspective. We see it in Clive's Kill in the beginning, and it carries on throughout. And I love that it's kind of like this play on the opposite of being a vampire, right? Where vampires have no reflection and Candyman only has a reflection. But to look at how this movie illustrates that visually, and then you think about how this movie is like the reflection of the 1992 Candyman in terms of its story and where it starts and where it ends, it's just poetic. This movie fucking rhymes.

SPEAKER_01 38:28

It's so true though, because I think in in the original film, you're just concerned about Candyman like popping up because you're looking into a mirror and saying his name, and maybe you'll lose consciousness and maybe you'll decapitate a dog or something. But I I think in this film we see that Candyman is reflected in people, right? And so Candyman only exists because of people. And it's kind of like American gods, if any of you have seen you know the their most recent TV interpretation of that, not super great. But I I like this that Candyman exists because of the people. And in this film, he's getting a lot of vengeance, and that's I think different from what we get depicted in in the original film. There's there's like a hint of that, and but in this one, it's like those microaggressions that you mentioned, Paris, those matter, and they come up in this film over and over where these kills aren't just like, I'm getting revenge because you wronged me, but I'm I'm out here doing this because you have wronged us and you continue to do so, and you diminish the effect that that has. You think it's nothing, but in in reality, look at everything that you're you're doing to us. And I don't know, I I found it interesting that the way that they like turn things around, that that room in particular with those girls, you know, they're saying little things, everything's a joke, no big deal, we don't even care, whatever, right? And it's like you don't have to take me seriously, but now you can't take anything seriously because I just cut you all up.

SPEAKER_03 39:47

But see, I know we're talking about other stuff here, but in relation to that, I think part of my issue with the way they wrap up this movie with the like, you don't have to care about me, but I'm gonna seek vengeance on you, especially with like the police and everything, is why is he killing the little girls? Why is he killing several sets of innocent people in the bathrooms if we're gonna take this like vengeance arc?

SPEAKER_01 40:12

Okay, so I think the assumed innocence is is the point of contention there.

SPEAKER_02 40:17

Yeah. Because think about this, right? Candyman and his name being said should be a reverence to the past and the pain and how he's embodying just generations of trauma, and instead it's kind of being used as a joke. You know what I mean? It's like almost minimizing that and making a mockery of that.

SPEAKER_03 40:37

Sure, but some of these kills are black children. It's not like it's just some annoying white kids in a, you know, rich school or something like that.

SPEAKER_02 40:45

Yeah, but then it's interesting you read that up because that just makes me think of his house where you have real going out to find directions. She encounters a group of black children seeking familiarity and comfort for directions, and then they just fucking mock her, right? They're so disconnected from any sense of community or shared pain that I mean it it it creates like a very big difference. And I do agree with you, right? Like I I see like I see the point where there's like a little bit of it being muddled because of the sharp turn that Anthony makes as Candyman versus the Candyman we see doing a lot of the killing is Sherman Fields. Is he killing children because he subconsciously blames them? Like, hey, I didn't kill them in life, but now I'll kill them in death. I don't know. That's a it's a weird angle. But I I do think there's something there about like the mockery of Candyman and the disregard of and the lack of reverence.

SPEAKER_01 41:38

That actually reminds me, it's interesting you brought up his house. So there's a a quote from a review I read from Odie Henderson talking about his house, where it's mentioned an old adage of the idea that not all skin folk is kinfolk.

SPEAKER_03 41:51

Yeah, I get that. I just think the way we took like a bit of a vengeance arc, it doesn't quite line up in some parts of this movie for me.

SPEAKER_01 41:59

Right. I mean, it is a bit it it's a lot, right? And and I think obviously we're not saying you should go out and get like severe violent vengeance for you know microaggressions, but I think if you look at the the way that those girls interacted with the other girl who enters the restroom, right, she walks in and they're immediately, just immediately abusive towards her.

SPEAKER_03 42:19

Absolutely, right?

SPEAKER_01 42:20

And I and I think that like the idea is we have this assumption of innocence, and for at least many of the characters, not all of them, of course, but many of the characters, that I that assumption is probably wrong. And there's a whole other, you know, argument to get into and discussion, right, about what's taught, what's learned. But I think it's interesting when you look at some of the characters in this film, like it's not just like anybody who's mean, I'm gonna go get revenge against them. It's not like, you know, I was wronged by the police, I'm gonna get revenge against them, but it's this idea of like I will not stand for any of that crap anymore.

SPEAKER_04 42:51

I love all of the different layers and levels that are addressed in this story, and I think one of the greatest visuals in how they approach that is the silhouetted puppet moments. They remind me a lot of the scene in Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows where they like explain the origin of the Deathly Hallows. But I actually prefer how it was done in this movie because it feels like it was done completely like in pre- with practical effects. Like it was very like done by hand, everything is paper, everything's cut out, all the puppetry is very organic, it's very like Tim Burton, very almost salad fingers energy in a way. And I think it was a really great way to keep a constant story flowing without getting too confusing about the different timelines that we're referring to.

SPEAKER_03 43:32

Well, I would just like to know that as Paris said that that is his favorite visual element, all the rest of us rolled our eyes because that was clearly the one we were all gonna talk about as well.

SPEAKER_04 43:41

Listen, crystal reflection, so I went for the second past.

SPEAKER_03 43:44

Yes, I understand. It's okay. That was one of the best parts. And for the reason that you specified exactly that it kept us in a perfect understanding of which timeline we were in. It made it so clear what was old, what was the past story, what's happening. Now it was really lovely. So with that being said, I'm actually gonna have to talk about something that was a visual element that I didn't like, and that's the CGI in this movie. There's two moments that really stood out to me, and they are first the image when Anthony's at Finley Stevens' house and he's looking at himself in the mirror, and we can see both Anthony and the reflection being Candyman. And for me, that moment didn't quite hit. I think the the use of the CGI, which I fully understand. I'm not mad that they used it, but for some reason the amount that was used in that moment kind of took me out of it. And I spent a lot of time just kind of like looking at things instead of like being in it and feeling things. And the second moment for me is actually Tony Todd at the end, unfortunately. No. I know I didn't love CGI Tony Todd's face. I think Tony Todd is alive and well, and while he's older, I wouldn't mind seeing an old Tony Todd. Maybe he has no interest in being Candyman anymore. I could understand that, but I didn't love seeing the CGI heavily used, especially in those two scenes.

SPEAKER_02 45:04

He certainly has an interest. He was actually surprised. And when they were casting Yaya, they prematurely announced something, and Tony Todd found out online that someone else was gonna be Candyman, but he 100% gave the project its blessing. But I I loved CGI, like ending it where it began with Daniel as the original Candyman. Look, I I know that it was a it's a it's a really good look at his face, right? It's not like it's a subtle glimpse, but for the brief amount of time it's there, I'm actually really happy that that we got it.

SPEAKER_04 45:39

Honestly, like I didn't really even realize that it was CGI Tony Todd until Ryan said so afterwards, and I was like, oh, I guess it was CGI. He's probably not that young looking anymore. But I was like, I don't know. At that point I was just like so happy to see him that I didn't really question it.

SPEAKER_03 45:53

Yeah, we did need some Tony Todd, but I don't know, it just something about the face is just not natural, you know. It's the it's the uncanny valley thing. It it's too real to be real, and I can tell.

SPEAKER_01 46:03

You know, it's it's interesting that you bring this up because this this actually goes to my favorite visual element. And of course, Paris did steal the best one of the movie. That's the Shadow Puppets. They are beautiful. Every scene that involves them is amazing. But when we're talking about Sherman Fields, this was hard for me to get into this idea of the Sherman Fields Candyman. The entire film, I just like was undecided about how I felt about the idea of it, because to me, Candyman is only one person. Um, but when we get to like the flashback scenes and you can get a sense of, you know, when they're happening and the idea that they're different from the current moment. I hate flashbacks. And this is one of the few movies that does it just does it so perfectly. It uses flashbacks in a really effective way at the right times. And when you see them, they don't have that weird, like dreamy kind of you know, visual treatment to them. They just look older. And I I absolutely love the flashback scenes. I think the flashback scenes and the shadow puppets were some of the best scenes in this film. And my my favorite scene is actually when William Burke retells the story of his candyman, Sherman Fields. And it's so interesting because, you know, as we're watching it, I'm like, oh, I don't know if I like this. I don't know if I was prepared for this movie to not be focused on Tony Todd's Candyman. But every time we hear the story, every s every time we see Sherman as, you know, the the now ghost of you know candyman, I just bought into it a little bit more and I enjoyed it, and I enjoyed the idea and that that whole like legacy and the mythos of it. I just think it was really effective. And you know, it having one, a great actor sit there and and tell you anything is is amazing. But to hear this this legend now retold, I love good storytelling, first of all. I just love it. Somebody could just sit here across the table for me and tell me good story, and I'm into it. But then we get to actually see it happen as well, and that that scene was so effective.

SPEAKER_03 47:49

I think you make such a good point about not being sure about Sherman. Like a lot of this movie, I felt that same thing when we first get kind of introduced to this idea of like, hey, it's not Tony Todd, it's not the guy we think it is, it's XYZ. You're kind of just like, you know, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not sure. I don't know if I want this version of Candyman. I think I want the Candyman I know. But it really does. Like they the way they introduce him to you, you really you get a sense of why he's doing these things and why he is a part of the legend of Candyman. And I really warmed up to Sherman being him. And it's really interesting to say that because at the same time, one of my favorite scenes is the moment where I kind of warmed up to the idea of Anthony being Candyman. And that's where he is at home and Brianna comes home and sees all this like crazy work he's been doing. And like at this point, I mean, the man barely has an arm and he starts freaking out, like you can't see this, trying to explain things, and then eventually that scene ends in like breaking mirrors and all this stuff before Brianna leaves and goes to her brothers. That's really the moment where I was like, all right, like I'm ready. I'm ready to convert Anthony into a full-on candyman. And that it was a very like distraught scene with a lot of feeling and a lot of emotion and pain, I felt like, and he felt like he was completely out of control. That is definitely my favorite scene of the movie. And I wish some things from that scene had continued more than the way that they really did.

SPEAKER_02 49:13

Oh, I feel you. And I just gotta say, looking back to what you were talking about with warming up to Sherman being Candyman, that first realization where William says, for me, Candyman was a man named Sherman Fields, and he was describing the story of the candy and the razor blades, etc., I was a little struck, right? And it has that feeling of like, um, I'm sorry, wait, what? We've never heard of this guy. Who is this? Obviously, I love the direction that they take and really just like candy man being candy men, but I was thinking about this and I was like just revisiting the original movie, and I completely forgot that Helen in the first film finds a piece of candy that has a razor in it in the original film. So it's like it's teased in a really gentle way. And that was something that, you know, when I've when I was sitting there watching this, I'm like, wait, if this happens and Sherman's from 1977, why the fuck was this never mentioned in 1992? And then I realized, oh, wait, no, there is a little bit of presence there. And that connecting of the dots felt really, really good to me.

SPEAKER_04 50:16

Honestly, having only seen the original Candyman, I just kind of didn't question any of this. I took it at face value and was like, yeah, that makes sense. That's the lore of Candyman.

SPEAKER_02 50:25

Well, I've never seen the sequels. I've only seen the original. It's just I've seen it for so long that it's like only Tony Todd.

SPEAKER_04 50:32

I don't know. I was like, oh yeah, I must not have known about this. This must be something that everybody else knew but me, and it makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 50:38

Because we're idiots.

SPEAKER_04 50:39

Probably, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:40

You're not idiots, don't worry. But looking at that experience, right, connecting with the 1992 film that you both saw for the first time last year, my favorite scene in this one, because I'm a sucker for nostalgia, is actually when Anthony visits his mom, the same returning actress that we see from the original film, and you have the realization that he is the baby. Now, him being the baby is something that I knew was coming from last year. However, what the way that they were going with Sherman, etc., it made me wonder if that was false. So I was relieved to see that he was the baby, but I want to know if that was a surprise for either of you.

SPEAKER_03 51:18

Oh, Chris, you had a literal gasp in the theater, and I was like, what? What are what are you so excited about?

SPEAKER_02 51:24

I was just so happy. I was like gonna be really bummed if he wasn't the baby because I was in love with the idea of him being the baby.

SPEAKER_03 51:30

Yeah, I notoriously don't recognize people's faces and or remember their names. I'm a horrible person. So when you were excited and told me what it was, I was like, oh, I'm also very excited by this and shocked, but I could not have ever pieced that together on my own in the moment of watching this movie.

SPEAKER_04 51:46

I feel like there's no reality in which he was not gonna be the baby.

SPEAKER_03 51:50

Yeah, I honestly I think I just forgot so much. I really regret not watching the first Candyman before going to see this. Because I just forgot so much from it.

SPEAKER_02 51:59

It's okay. When it gets released on streaming, we'll just watch both back to back. It'll be fine. We'll summon Tony Todd. Chill. If he wants to join us, chill.

SPEAKER_01 52:08

To be honest, we should all watch all four Candyman films.

SPEAKER_03 52:12

I am very interested in the sequels. Of all the sequels we review here, I feel like there are worse choices we could make than Candyman 2 and 3 and 4.

SPEAKER_01 52:20

And we have.

SPEAKER_03 52:21

Yeah, like Thanks Killing 3.

SPEAKER_01 52:23

So, I mean, what's interesting is number two is a little bit different, but number 3 actually relates to this film a little bit. And so, not like completely in the story, but some of some of the parts of it are kind of interesting. But I think what's more interesting is is what didn't get made for for Candyman. Like they were going to make a Candyman 2, or they thought about making a Candyman 2 that were like he was gonna fall in love with a Helen lookalike, but they were like, we don't know how an interracial relationship is gonna be perceived at this time, and dang, that's so 1990s, it hurts.

SPEAKER_02 52:52

Ain't it? But it was already their love in the first film, so that makes no fucking sense.

SPEAKER_01 52:57

I I just hate everything about it. But they also considered a crossover with Hellraiser because you know, you got Freddie V Jason going on, and so why not do everybody versus everybody? But thankfully, Clive Barker, who you know is responsible for both series' existence, was like, nah, dude, don't do that.

SPEAKER_02 53:15

Didn't we talk in the original episode about how Leprechaun and Candyman were were supposed to throw down at one point in space?

SPEAKER_01 53:21

Oh gosh.

SPEAKER_03 53:22

I am so thankful for the way Candyman for me has like slightly flown under the radar in horror, right? Like he's not Freddie, Jason, Michael Myers. And I think that's part of his mystique. That's what makes him so special. I'm excited that he's getting a shine now, but I had no idea about Candyman when I was younger, and I'm it makes it so much even better now. And I know for a lot of people, Candyman ruined their life when they were little. So he's got a special little spot in horror, and I love it.

SPEAKER_04 53:50

Honestly, Ryan, after doing your birth chart this week, I know for a fact that you love an underdog. So this tracks.

SPEAKER_03 53:55

W what about me means that?

SPEAKER_04 53:58

I don't remember. It was one of your planets. I'll send you the whole thing. I gotta say, my favorite scene in this movie is when we have Anthony and he is in the mirror at Finlay's house while she's in the bathroom, and he's confronted with his reflection as like full candyman hook hand for the first time in a way that is like unflinching, and like you don't just see it for a glimpse and then it's gone. It's fully there and it's not going away. Because that's when he realizes, like, okay, I'm absolutely losing my mind, and this is real, and all the things I was hoping were just my imagination are not my imagination, and I don't know what to fuck what the fuck to do about it. And then when he's just kind of like mirroring the movements, and then he like touches his like stumpy rotting hand to the mirror, and you see the claw hand or the hook hand touch it. I was just like, ooh, this is good, and it's spooky because it's not going away.

SPEAKER_02 54:43

Can we talk about what a wonderful performance he had, but also his terrible decision quality with how obviously he leaves a restaurant after someone finds out she's dead.

SPEAKER_04 54:52

Oh god, I know. Real subtle.

SPEAKER_03 54:54

I'm sorry, I thought we were gonna talk about the way he clearly didn't take care of an obvious infection in his hand where he almost lost it.

SPEAKER_02 55:00

I have that coming up, darling. Don't worry. But he truly was such a perfect fit for that role. And I've only seen him in a few other things, but I really enjoy this for me being his defining role. I think his chemistry with the rest of the cast was really outstanding. I think his I I could buy his energy as an artist. I just really loved, I think in this might be my imagination, like my mind playing tricks on me. I could have sworn even his hair part looks like when the baby is pulled from the fire, I thought there was like a little bit of a part in the hair, maybe like a scar or something. It just seemed like a nice little touch. But I think the characters in this film, particularly with Yaya as Anthony, and looking at even the family dynamics between Brianna and Troy, I think this one felt so much more lived in than the original did. And that's saying a lot because I felt like the characters in the original were great.

SPEAKER_03 55:57

Yeah, I mean, have you ever seen a couple more lovely together than Anthony and Brianna? Never. It's just beautiful. And for Anthony to be the like artist with his maybe well-paid girlfriend, you know, supporting his lifestyle as an artist. I think it's just such an interesting dynamic, and they do feel so real. He does feel like artist that I have met or known in different ways. And she feels like a real person where she's like, Yo, I'm trying to do something, and y'all are just out here thinking I, you know, I just date an artist, like, and I just have a dad that was crazy. But I'm a I'm a whole person that deserves respect for who she is.

SPEAKER_02 56:39

When we think about how much she's been through in her life, and even that moment of, you know, her being finally recognized, but then, oh wait, I'm not really being recognized. I'm being overshadowed by my boyfriend and my father's past. And the digs that are constantly taken at her is just it, it's rough, but you know, I loved the the depth that we get to her character.

SPEAKER_03 57:04

And speaking of depth, I just have to recognize this from a writing standpoint. The way that moment specifically comes from another black woman is not on accident. And that I think speaks to a lot of people's experience. Obviously, I'm not a person in that position where I can't speak to it personally, but I just think it's so intentional in this movie what they do with characters and their relationships. And that is no small feat to say, like, oh, we're not just gonna have some rich white guy do this to you, right? It's gonna be someone that you want to see as a peer and then they treat you this way.

SPEAKER_02 57:39

Yeah, and you're absolutely right, Ryan. And even looking at all the discourse over the people who still only see this as Jordan Peele's film because of how prominent he is. And look, the man's a genius. No one is discounting that. But this is Nia de Casa's vision. This is Nia de Casa's film, this is Nia Da Casa's Candyman. And Nia de Casa's Candyman is the first film from a black female director to debut at number one at the U.S. box office. That's history, right?

SPEAKER_03 58:05

Yeah, I was definitely calling this Jordan Peele's candyman, and I'm very happy to make my correction. It's not, it's not his. He doesn't own this. He had he's had many lovely things he's done, but this is not his thing.

SPEAKER_04 58:19

Yeah, it also doesn't particularly feel like his thing, like stylistically.

SPEAKER_03 58:22

That's right.

SPEAKER_04 58:23

I love that Nia was able to fully set herself apart and create her own vision and her own style with just this movie alone.

SPEAKER_02 58:29

Absolutely. And granted, he was a co-writer and yeah, he's a producer, but the collaboration between them is so excellent. And one of the things I did enjoy is the fact that he, I guess, was like on set with her in Chicago, and he was like, Hear me out. What if it's this music? And you hear Beyonce saying, Say my name. And that Say My Name was a project that the film was produced under just to keep it flying under the radar. And I think that is the Jordan Peel touch that I need. I'm good with everything else, right? Like, I feel 100% satisfied by Nia DeCosta's approach to this film and being able to really see her like chops as a director and look at the stunning performances she was able to capture in this movie.

SPEAKER_03 59:11

So I generally agree with you, but I I do have to talk about my worst part. And it is the ending of Anthony being shot by the police in this movie. And it's tough to discuss because we all know this is a reality that we need to talk about, we need to address, we need to fix, right? No question about that. With that being said, in this movie, I wish it had gone a different direction. And Chris and I talked about this a little bit afterwards because we're cheaters, and I'm sorry. And it it's a little bit hard to put into words, but I I just think that this movie was going a certain direction with Anthony realizing his past of Candyman's influence in his life being the baby, realizing he was like turning into him, being taken over by him, being haunted by him. And I personally would have preferred this movie not take this route in the ending. And I'm not saying that there's no value to it. I'm not saying there's not anything to take from it, because there absolutely is, but it just feels a little exploitative for me, even though I believe that their intention was specifically not to be that, but it it does feel that way a little bit for me. And I think, of course, this movie would have hit differently last year when it was intended to come out, but it wouldn't have felt any better then, of course. And I it's not that I need a movie to feel good at the end, but I just I really, really liked the way the story was going with Anthony being the focus, and then it really changed when it became Candyman being summoned, and he's everyone, he's Candyman. It took so much away from this very personal story that I felt like we got with Anthony and Brianna all the way through.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:50

I hear you. And that wasn't a moment that like really had me thinking and sitting in my own feelings since Tuesday when we watched this, and it's now Sunday after the movie has like officially released in theaters. And I didn't disagree with you in that moment, Ryan. You know what I mean? Like that was a it was like such a shocking ending. And I think the more that I like reflected on it, I agree that I I I personally in my heart wish there had been a different ending for Anthony, for Anthony's sake. And I get the direction, I get the intention a hundred percent. And I think what what really confused me at the time was I think I was sitting there expecting Anthony to be dying, and I expected that he already died in her arms. So I thought when the police shot him, there's like a moment where they pull back and you see a wide shot, you see William's body over on the left, and you see Brianna in the corner, and I thought he wasn't in her lap after he had collapsed in her arms. So in my mind, I was like, oh, well, clearly he's already dead and they're trying to shoot him, but he's immortal, right? But not at the hands of the police. And I was wrong. I think that was just my mind trying to make sense of anything that I was seeing. And it's it's tough. And I think what's what's really interesting is looking back even at the original film and looking at him being stolen as a baby to be a sacrifice so that his name would continue to be said, and Helen rescued the baby from the fire, and she did that so that he wouldn't be another victim to Candyman. He wouldn't be another, you know, piece of that legend. His mother takes him away, he grows up, he finds his talent, he finds love in his life, and then he becomes part of this vicious cycle of violence again. And I think it's a tragedy. And I think this movie, like, I wish in my heart that Anthony had a happy ending, but I understand the need to demonstrate it for the tragedy that it is, and how often people are made unwilling martyrs.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:45

And I I mentioned before we before we had our break that I feel like there was this idea that uh of destiny that was really told to us and not earned necessarily. And I think really I I really wish that he had broken through that, right? So that we would have this moment of of rising above and moving beyond because of the strength of the people around him, that he would see that his destiny was not to, you know, fall victim to Candyman, but but to go beyond Candyman and and and brief be free once again, you know, escape from that fire once again. And I'm I'm kind of, you know, I'm bummed it didn't happen, I'll be honest. But I think I can understand the idea that Candyman has this power because of the community. And so he embraces that power to know that like this is this tale, this legend is everlasting and not something that can be escaped, and that's not necessarily a bad thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:37

All that being said, Ryan, I know like obviously I think I think my my feelings have softened towards towards that part over time over the last few days. But for me, the worst part of the film was the mechanic and the vehicle that gets us to that part with Anthony being set up, and that's William being a bad dude. Oh, you're actually right. That is the worst part. I I'm trying, I'm really, really trying to rack my brain. And it's I don't I don't know that it's something that's I don't know if it was just like the sudden turn for me. I don't know if it was a matter of the execution for me, but I feel like I'm disconnected from William, the keeper of the Candyman story and mythos, and William the guy who wants to see another man's life ruined at the expense of a legend. And I I I just I don't know. I I I couldn't it didn't sit right with me.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:25

I think his motivation was really missing for me to do this to Anthony. I can kind of understand like the general theoretical motivation, but like, why? Why do this to Anthony and and take it out on him like this?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:39

And there's one piece missing that links it together. There's there's like a realization for him, I think that we don't get. Because in the first half of the film, we we get his experiences and his childhood and his past, and we get his storytelling. But I think what we're missing is that moment where he realizes this is necessary and I need to keep this going. And I don't know if we just needed a small scene or maybe literally, you know, just a zoom in on his face where he has a realization. Something like that, I think, would have done the trick where we get to see the idea hit his head that like this has to continue. Not just it does continue, but it has to.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:14

Or even just like a hint, like an idea, like, oh wait, he might have something else going on. But this man seemed like real chill, laundromat guy, and then all of a sudden, yo, I gotta kill you and tire buddy up. Like, this is a lot.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:27

I wouldn't say he was real chill. We're introduced to him in like a very tense, almost jump scare kind of way, where he's just kind of creeping in that back alley holding some junk, and I was like, who the hell is this man?

SPEAKER_03 1:05:38

He it was groceries, he was in his neighborhood.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:40

Yeah, but it was definitely like a a creepy introduction from the jump for him. So I was kind of like, I had my eye on him. I definitely didn't expect what happened at all. But when it was happening, I was kind of like, as he was doing the exposition, I was like, you know, I really like the way that Candyman is being turned from like this universal villain to this like almost. Almost coping mechanism or like defense mechanism for certain people. And I was like, you know what? I never thought I could get behind the need to create another candy man. But like when you put it that way, I'm like, okay, I can kind of see where you're coming from. Obviously, you've lost your damn mind, but I get it, and I get why. So that wasn't something that I particularly disliked. Um, two things I have I took umbrage with. One was like a pretty hard to ignore continuity error, and that was when we have Anthony going back to see his mom, and we're supposed to believe that it's been like 30 years, but the actress Vanessa Williams has not aged a day at all, so it kind of took me out of it.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:38

Okay, that's not her fault, though. She is stunning, it's legitimately the same person 30 years later.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:46

She looks so good. I couldn't take my eyes off of her, so that's actually what took me out of it.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:51

30 years of grace, honestly.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:52

Yeah, like literally looked so good. I was like, wow, it's not believable that you're his mom from 30 years ago, but it truly is because you're a queen and a star. The thing that I was the most disappointed by though was the bathroom scene that everyone was talking about earlier. I love like how much you can appreciate the subtlety of what we got there, but I needed so much more. I needed like full frontal brutality, and I thought I was gonna get it, and they like teased that scene a couple times, and it was like in a teaser trailer at one point, and I was like, this is gonna be my favorite scene. I know this is gonna be my favorite scene, like teenage high school girls getting destroyed by Candyman in a bathroom because they thought they were hot shit, but they fucked with the wrong one. And then we just like didn't get to see very much of it at all. And like, I get what we did see was like very like well done and very tasteful and artful, but I wanted more.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:39

Talk about wanting more, Paris. That goes to my worst part of the film. Why add Tony Todd's name to the credits if you're gonna use him for two and a half seconds? Yes, just don't even bother. He's had three movies as Candyman, and we love him for it, but it just feels disrespectful to get him in there for two and a half seconds. Like give us a peep now and then throughout the movie where he appears in a mirror or something. I don't know. But it uh the entire time I was waiting to see his face, and I bought into the story, I bought into the whole idea of having a hive of candy man, right? But why do I have to wait till the very last scene to see him at all?

SPEAKER_03 1:08:16

Imagine how exciting it would have been if we didn't have any idea Tony Todd would be a part of it, and then you just see some Tony Todd, like a wild Tony Todd appears. We'd be so stoked.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:27

Grab your Pokeballs, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:29

Let me catch a Tony Todd.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:33

Okay, I do have a a runner-up worse part though, and that is the failure to treat a fucking wound. And just the picking at it, and just the insistence on just letting it spread and being okay with it and everybody touching it like it's normal.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:50

Okay, but have you met men? They don't take care of things. I'm not surprised. Artistic men, God bless. You're lucky they have limbs at all.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:59

It was symbolic of his deteriorating mental state.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:02

Yes, but we didn't need to see it on his skin. Yes, we did.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:06

We didn't need the extreme close-ups of him picking it off.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:09

Yeah. Imagine he picked it and then it was just like honey coming out.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:13

Bees, just bees coming out. Oh, bees would have been so much better. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:18

We didn't get as much like bee gore in this movie. I did miss the big gore a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:23

You know the why though, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:09:24

Uh, because they treat people nicely now.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:26

No, because all the bees are dead. That's why.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:28

Yeah, there's that as well.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:30

Despite my grievances with this film, though, I absolutely intend on watching it again and again and again. I think my next time I'm going to try to catch it while still in theaters. I want to go see Indolby Atmos, but I want to watch the 1992 and then go see this immediately after.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:48

Yeah, I definitely would like to see this again, like you said, Indolby. And I wouldn't mind watching the original first.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:54

Yeah, that seems like the ideal way to do things, and I almost regret not having done that this time, but I think I had seen it just recently enough where it was like still in there, but not so fresh that I was like comparing it or thinking too much about it.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:07

This movie also really helped you out if you don't remember anything. Previously on Candyman, but not lame.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:13

I'm actually curious. So I want to obviously I want to watch this again, especially when it has streaming services, but Adolby viewing would be amazing. I'm just curious the order of viewing. Should I watch one, two, three, and then this? Or should you watch two, three, one, and then this?

SPEAKER_03 1:10:26

No.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:27

I think you don't do two or three.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:29

I think that sounds crazy.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:31

But more Tony Todd, right? I mean, that's what we're all here for.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:34

That's what Ryan and Paris are here for. Very true.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:37

I think you do two or three after this one when you're just like craving more Tony Todd, but you're not like too picky about it.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:43

We say, having never seen any of them and not knowing at all how good the sequels are.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:47

Really just assuming they're subpar.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:50

Well, good luck on that reviewing journey, Mac. But for now, there you have it, folks. Candyman 2021 has earned a universal slash. Now we've had a lot to talk about here. It doesn't end here by any means. There are depths to this movie that are gonna be explored by you, the individual viewer, and the way your experiences have shaped your life and the way you receive this. So please share those thoughts with us. We want to know what you think. Keep in mind there are a number of ways you can reach out to us, starting with our website, hackerslash.com, or on our social media accounts, Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:23

And if you're surprised that we've gotten all the way through this episode without me talking about how creepy mirrors are, you should reach out to our Hackerslash Hotline to confirm that mirrors are in fact really creepy when you stare into them. You can leave us a voicemail at 757-606-0128, or visit hacker slash.com slash contact to send us an audio message.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:42

Or if you don't feel comfortable saying Candyman five times into a mirror, you can send us an email to feedback at hackerslash.com. Just remember, Candyman five times in the subject line.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:51

Mac, you're so dark sided for even considering actually doing that after watching this movie. But if you're unlike Mac and you've enjoyed listening to this episode, consider becoming one of our patrons. You can visit patreon.com slash hacker slash to earn cool perks for as low as $1 a month.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:05

We'll see you next time, folks. And remember, Candyman ain't a he. Candyman's the whole damn hive.