SPEAKER_08 0:04

Like Jesus, but Jesus. Greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hacker Slash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. Anyone else wonder who the hell opened that door? If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack, a total joke, a waste of time, or a slash.

SPEAKER_00 0:27

Totally killer, pun intended.

SPEAKER_08 0:29

We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, we're rating these movies this spooky season with the perspective we gain from our varying walks of life and the flavors of here we fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast. This week I'm joined by the Superfly Space Guy Mac.

SPEAKER_00 0:44

If this translation is right, this alien sounds like an idiot.

SPEAKER_08 0:47

The gore lover Alexis.

SPEAKER_06 0:48

Hey everyone. The cowardly creeper Ryan. I want a full name for my report. I'm not putting in my report that I lost a crew member on a deep set expedition to find an alien named Jerry. And the Scream Queen Paris.

SPEAKER_04 0:59

Don't listen to her, she's crazy. Pull the lever.

SPEAKER_08 1:02

This week we're checking out the winner of the second round of the co-host Clash. But before we get down to business, we have some follow-up.

SPEAKER_04 1:09

You know, Chris, a movie I'd rather not follow up on is Trick from 2019, but here we are. This is my job. Tricks on Us. So we recently reviewed this film, and no spoilers, but it didn't do well amongst the team. But the votes don't just end with us, so we wanted to hear from our listeners. As it turns out, 86% of you gave it a hack, and only 14% thought the movie was good enough to earn a slash. I am not surprised.

SPEAKER_06 1:34

Well, I wasn't here to hack it, but I feel the hack in my heart, and so I'll just add to it. Seems like a bad one. Maybe don't watch it.

SPEAKER_04 1:44

Alexander from Twitter said, This one was close for me. I was leaning towards a hack for most of the movie. Then I saw the final scene and switched it to a slash. I feel like there should be a third option. Put hack and slash together. What would we call it? This movie is a true 50-50 toe the line kind of movie.

SPEAKER_06 2:00

Hash, like you gotta be high to be doing a hack and a slash.

SPEAKER_00 2:04

I think it's I think it's okay to just say it's a meh.

SPEAKER_06 2:06

Right. If you don't feel anything enough to give it a slash, it's a hack. It's a hack by default. I would agree.

SPEAKER_04 2:12

Okay, but I do agree with Alexander that, like, in the end there were some concepts that could have been slashy, but I think the hakiness outweighed it by far for me. We have another comment from one of our patrons, Rob, who said, I've been putting off watching this movie for a long time. Finally about to sit down and watch it so I can listen to this episode. And Paris better not badmouth Tom Atkins again. This movie is a huge hack. I hope to god no one picked this as one of their favorite movies.

SPEAKER_08 2:38

Nope. As it turns out, Rob, we just thought the poster looked cool. Joke's on us.

SPEAKER_04 2:42

I wouldn't say we thought the poster looked cool.

SPEAKER_05 2:45

Oh, it's definitely a we. It's just not the entire group we. I am sad that I missed Tom Atkins, so there's that.

SPEAKER_04 2:52

It was honestly Tom Atkins, maybe at his best, at least in my opinion.

SPEAKER_06 2:56

And a hack? How dare you.

SPEAKER_04 2:58

Well, he was a lovable curmudgeon, which is apparently what he was meant to be all along.

SPEAKER_08 3:02

He was the only slash worthy thing in that movie.

SPEAKER_04 3:04

And we have one final comment from Freya who said, When I saw this on your lineup, I thought, oh God, you poor things. Trick's creators tried to bank on the successes of horror films past without putting in the effort themselves, which comes off as rushed and lazy. With Omar Epps and Jamie Kennedy in the cast, I thought it could be promising, but again, they just grabbed names from bigger horror properties and gave them nothing to work with. So lame.

SPEAKER_01 3:25

Yeah, I agree with that. It seemed like they just reached for the stars, and unfortunately, they didn't get through the first stratosphere, or Mac will probably correct me on some sort of uh I don't know how all that works.

SPEAKER_08 3:36

They didn't make it through the ozone layer.

SPEAKER_01 3:38

The ozone layer, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 3:39

There we go.

SPEAKER_01 3:40

Sorry, is Cece here?

SPEAKER_04 3:41

They reached for the stars and landed on the freeway. Finally, I would like to take a moment to acknowledge one of our newest patrons as part of our new blood drive. Welcome to the patron family, Katie. Katie, I appreciate you so much. And I also would like to share a small anecdote with you. When I was in middle school, I dated a girl named Katie, and she broke up with me and called me gay. And that's how I found out I was gay.

SPEAKER_06 4:02

How dare she be so right?

SPEAKER_04 4:05

I wonder if it's the same, Katie. Could you imagine?

SPEAKER_06 4:07

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 4:08

After all these years, she's come back.

SPEAKER_06 4:11

Katie, now you know what you have to do, even if it isn't you.

SPEAKER_00 4:14

Is that one of those things where you've failed successfully? Is that I don't know. I failed gaily, and that's our follow-up.

SPEAKER_08 4:20

Well, in case you missed episode 177, this October we're putting the power in our listeners' hands each week to choose the victor between two movies nominated by Mac, Ryan, and Paris. And we're calling this the Co-Host Clash. They did the Clash.

SPEAKER_02 4:36

They did the Co-Host Clash.

SPEAKER_08 4:38

The Co-Host Clash.

SPEAKER_02 4:39

It was a podcast smell. They did the clash. The Co-Host Clash Tonight on Hack or Slash.

SPEAKER_08 4:52

Now, our second round pitted Mac and Ryan head-to-head with their nominations from the 90s. Sphere 1998 and Candyman 2 Farewell to the Flesh from 1995, respectively.

SPEAKER_06 5:03

And let me just say, I love us for trying to go hard for the 90s, because you know that's the best spot to be in horror.

SPEAKER_08 5:09

Really balancing us out after the neon demon of it all.

SPEAKER_04 5:12

Really. Something had to.

SPEAKER_08 5:14

Now, we pulled all of you, dear listeners, and forced you to make the hard choices. This was actually a tight race the entire way, and even at the end, it was nearly too close to call. But without further ado, the winner of the second round with 51% of the vote was Mac. So this week we're talking about Sphere from 1998.

SPEAKER_00 5:33

First of all, thank you for voting for my pick, Ryan. I really appreciate that. And encouraging others to do so.

SPEAKER_06 5:38

I want it to be known that I did, in fact, vote for Candyman 2, and then decided that I'm scared Candyman 2 wouldn't be good and asked other people to then vote for yours because either way it was a 90s movie. Either way, I felt like it would be a win.

SPEAKER_04 5:52

A compelling campaign strategy.

SPEAKER_01 5:54

Also love how you got called out by some listeners. That was funny. I sure did.

SPEAKER_06 5:59

And listen, all I'm saying is I chaos is a part of who I am, okay? It's really one of your best qualities. Yes, because it is chaotic good.

SPEAKER_04 6:07

Yeah, we had a lot of comments on this poll. One person said, As much as I love Candyman, I have to vote for Sphere. I get that these sci-fi thriller types aren't horror movies, but I think they have their own special place on the podcast, and I do really enjoy hearing the group break them down, keeping my fingers crossed.

SPEAKER_06 6:25

Yeah, I feel like one of the things that made me want to see Sphere a little bit more is that this is one of our opportunities to see something different. We can get Candyman too into the lineup, but things like this that are a little bit of a stretch for normal lineups, I think they're fun, and I that's part of why I went for it. Also, people said the word jellyfish, and I was like, something special's happening here.

SPEAKER_04 6:46

I felt the same thing. I was like, what the fuck does that mean? And it got me intrigued. And at that point I was like, is it too late to switch my vote? And the answer is yes, it was too late because I did want to see Candyman too. But we'll probably watch it eventually.

SPEAKER_05 6:57

One day.

SPEAKER_04 6:57

We also had another comment that said, I like both these movies. Tough call, but I voted for Ryan because she nailed the malignant episode. So your track record got you a vote, Ryan.

SPEAKER_08 7:05

Wow, because of the balance, really. Someone saw you and appreciated you, Ryan, but even with that, Maxo managed to win. So, Mac, why did you nominate this movie?

SPEAKER_00 7:15

This is a movie I have seen many a time. I owned it on DVD at some point. I am also just a huge Michael Crichton fan. Michael Crichton was my favorite author in middle school. And when I got to start seeing some Michael Crichton movies, you know, as I was of the correct age to start watching them, um, I think his movies just have a certain cinematic feel. So not necessarily the movies that he's directed, he has directed some, but the movies based off of his novels. What's really interesting is I think when you read the stuff that he's written, they kind of seem like watching a movie. So if you've enjoyed things like, you know, Jurassic Park, for instance, if uh you've seen Timeline, really great, Paul Walker, R.I.P., um, they just have a certain feel of like 90s thriller movie, even if they're made in the 2000s, and the the books, honestly, that he's written feel like that while you're reading them. So, you know, I was just a kind of a big fan, and Sphere I really enjoy. It's kind of in, you know, my whole sci-fi realm. So of course, that's where I'm gonna uh gravitate towards. Uh, but I think you have some great actors giving some great dialogue and just an interesting movie to watch when you're a teenager and it's just like playing with your imagination.

SPEAKER_08 8:22

Well, we do love a good novel adaptation here, but let's see if you actually made a quality pick because it's time for the co-host clash. Now, who's seen this one before aside from Mac?

SPEAKER_06 8:32

I don't even think I have to tell you guys that I haven't seen this, but obviously I haven't, hadn't heard of it. I just got excited because it's the 90s.

SPEAKER_04 8:40

Is the answer nobody? Has nobody seen this before besides Mac?

SPEAKER_01 8:43

I hadn't. I knew it existed, and I know I brought this up in the group chat where I said, has anyone seen the MTV show Fear? Because in high school I was explaining this show to people, like, oh, you have to watch it where they go in these haunted houses, they hook them up. This is when this first came out, this sort of stuff. People do this stuff now all the time. And people would say, You mean sphere? And I was like, No, fear. So I didn't know if I had a list back then or what was happening. There's a disconnection between what I was saying and what I was getting, but I was like, Man, maybe I need to watch this uh sphere movie, and it just never got out. Everybody was just an idiot.

SPEAKER_08 9:19

Not gonna lie, I was wondering where that was going.

SPEAKER_01 9:21

Yeah, I feel bad I never followed that up because I had a very chaotic weekend and I didn't know how to describe it, but at least Chris knew what I was talking about.

SPEAKER_06 9:29

I'm just glad 20 years later you got around to watching Sphere.

SPEAKER_08 9:32

Yeah, I I'd never seen this movie before, but what really was interesting was I watched this movie, then talked about it the next day at work, asked, you know, one of my coworkers who also loves horror movies, hey, have you ever seen Sphere? And some random person who I would not expect to watch any horror movies at all was like, Oh, you mean that one with Queen Latifah and Sharon Stone and Dustin Hoffman and Samuel L. Jackson with the jellyfish? And I was like, what the fuck?

SPEAKER_06 9:58

It was a shock to hear that someone listed Queen Latifah as the first star. Most meanable. That's something to say about it.

SPEAKER_08 10:04

And that was obviously a huge surprise to see that someone outside of Mac, outside of this podcast, who I wouldn't expect to be a horror fan or a sci-fi fan to know that this specific movie existed and remember so much detail about this singular title. But going into it, knowing little to nothing about it based off of the word jellyfish and then the actual poster, I was really expecting something creepy, underwater, but more importantly, I expected it to be alien but in the sea instead. What were you all expecting?

SPEAKER_04 10:37

So Mac recommended this movie, and also my boyfriend Dwight had seen this movie. So I was expecting it to be like long, sci-fi shenanigans bullshit. I expected this was gonna be a hard hack. Didn't expect it to be underwater, don't know where you got that vibe. Um, but I went in totally blind, and as I was watching it, I was like, oh my god, there's a lot of people in this that I know.

SPEAKER_06 10:59

Um, Paris, I got underwater only because I accidentally started reading the synopsis, like when I went to rent it from Apple TV and it says an underwater, and I went, wait, what? Stop. I'm not reading that. So that's all I had. And trust me, I wasn't expecting it beforehand.

SPEAKER_08 11:14

Yeah, you start realizing that it's gonna be underwater, and you're like, man, I should just watch Underwater with Kristen Stewart.

SPEAKER_04 11:19

I thought that at a couple points during this movie, but also based on the title, I did for some reason think that this was the sequel to Phantasm. And I was like, oh Jesus, do we have to?

SPEAKER_06 11:30

You know, I wouldn't be mad. I feel like the sequel to Phantasm could be called Sphere. Guess what? It's called Phantasm 2. Classic.

SPEAKER_01 11:36

Sorry to disappoint.

SPEAKER_06 11:37

Yeah, but basically I went in that no expectations. I mean sci-fi the word underwater and the word jellyfish.

SPEAKER_01 11:45

Really, it's just the word jellyfish that got me in. I don't know in what sort of universe I knew that this was underwater. Don't know when I really didn't know much about this movie. Somehow I did. So I was expecting that I would actually really enjoy this movie. I know Mac and I like sci-fi movies, and our taste in those sort of movies align. And I do love underwater themes and movies, and I've enjoyed underwater stuff since I was a little kid, so I was excited.

SPEAKER_06 12:14

Maybe 20 years ago somebody told you it was an underwater movie.

SPEAKER_01 12:17

Yeah, maybe I just have this those weird memories you just keep in the back of your head. And this was all about this movie, some freaking odd reason.

SPEAKER_06 12:26

Yeah, Mac's here to unlock your memories.

SPEAKER_01 12:28

Please, please don't.

SPEAKER_00 12:30

That's that's what I'm good at, so that's why you keep me around.

SPEAKER_08 12:32

I am curious though, Mac. Obviously, you nominated this film, you have some connection to it. What was it like watching this again?

SPEAKER_00 12:39

You know, it's it's always a good time to go re-watch movies that you used to love because sometimes what you'll find, I think, is you're like, oh man, I was so young when I loved that movie. And other times you're like, here's why I loved it, I'm feeling it all over again. So when I'm watching it, I think the first thing about it is it definitely feels like a thriller. Like it feels like there's entertainment value going on. And even with just dialogue or the exposition, like I I feel like they knew audiences want to feel entertained and they don't want to like have to walk out of a movie because they're bored. And I think entertaining 20 to 30 years ago is very different than entertaining is now. And I think you could just literally put like four really known, really esteemed actors on a screen and tell them to talk, and people would be like, Oh, this is so great. And now you can do that a little bit, but I think you need more flash uh to really keep people's attention because we're in the the world of like 80 billion movies being available, you know, and streaming, you barely pay anything for it. But I I found myself remaining entertained from start to finish. I've seen it, I know exactly what happens. Um, I even know some of the things they say just from memory, but um, I I still somehow found this to be a film where I could like you know turn it on, hit play, and be like, ah, this is good. Um, and not just like this is quality, but like I am enjoying the experience of sitting down and and watching this on my TV. It's not one where I really felt the need to distract myself with my phone or anything.

SPEAKER_01 14:08

I can see where you're coming from because this movie was so cinematic. And I at one point was like, why is there music still going on? I think it was a soundtrack throughout the entire movie. Which to me, now that you're bringing this up, Mac, very much so reminded me of Jurassic Park because I feel like you have that, you know, and these iconic songs from Jurassic Park, which I'm assuming if people have seen this, they also have iconic songs or iconic scores, I should say.

SPEAKER_08 14:39

Iconic songs like What Are Those?

SPEAKER_01 14:42

That is my favorite.

SPEAKER_04 14:44

Meg, it sounds like this is a comfort movie for you. And I feel like I got that vibe while I was watching it. It felt very much like Alien, and I was like, this is such a Mac movie. And I love that our co-host Clash Picks have been very representative of who we are. So much so.

SPEAKER_06 14:58

Yeah, I think this is a very comforting movie to watch. And the other thing is, it is entertaining, and it's so funny to me when we describe movies, a form of entertainment, as entertaining. It the humor is never lost on me, but truly, it is the way to to talk about this. Like, you're not like thrilled, like uh there's not an intense level of things happening here. You're just like in it for the ride. Like, you're just like, okay, cool. I'm around, I'm here, let's do it. Talk to me, Queen Latifah. Tell me what's up.

SPEAKER_04 15:32

They had one job.

SPEAKER_06 15:33

And famously, some movies are not entertaining. They that shall not be named.

SPEAKER_00 15:38

But this this is kind of the benefit of thrillers, though, right? So even if they have a horror aspect to them, the goal is to like tell you a story and like make that storytelling, you know, keep your attention. So I but the famous one for me is Gladiator. Always bring it up. Gladiator's a movie that if it's on TV, people will just watch it starting in the middle of the movie. And that's not for everybody, obviously, but a huge majority of people just don't care. If it's on, they're watching it because it's just got entertainment value.

SPEAKER_01 16:05

It's such a manly movie. But I get it when it's. Yeah, I guess I could say it maybe reminds me of Titanic in that perspective, where you could pick that movie up at any point and still continue watching it.

SPEAKER_04 16:18

So I felt a connection to this movie that I was not anticipating. And this movie just so happened to align with some things that I love, which are Sharon Stone, as well as anything underwater and cephalopods. If you don't know this about me, cephalopods are my favorite animals. I think they're magic psychic wizards that are from an alien planet, and they have power beyond our grasp.

SPEAKER_06 16:40

This is one of your crazy beliefs that I'm on board with.

SPEAKER_04 16:43

Fantastic. But ultimately, I actually felt engaged in this movie, and I'll be honest, when I first sat down to watch it, it was the night before last night, and I started the opening credits and I was like, Jesus, fuck, I can't sit through this. It's like over two hours long. God damn it, Mac. And I turned it off and went to bed. And then I watched it the next day, and I was like, oh, I'm not even really mad about this, actually.

SPEAKER_06 17:04

Paris, the opening credits to this movie are so exhaustively horrible. Like, if you could put all the words to a long book and put them on the screen and make me watch them, that's like basically what happened. I mean, I know it was probably only like 10 names, and I swear to god, one of those names came up like 15 times, like the writer or some the director, something. One of those names was eight different things, and I was like, we get it, you're special. Just make your name bigger than everyone else's. It was so long. Honestly, this movie could have been 10 minutes shorter with no opening credits.

SPEAKER_08 17:42

That is true. But did you appreciate that all the opening credit names are wrapped around an invisible sphere? Obviously, it was amazing, it was so PowerPoint. Truly. I actually felt very entertained watching this movie. That was a turn I wasn't necessarily expecting because looking at Mac's recommendation, knowing how much he loves Alien and just kind of getting a feel for things, I really thought it would be a slow burn that I wouldn't necessarily be with 100% of the way. So Paris also loves things that are underwater, right? And I have a fear of water. I am not a big fan of creatures beneath the sea. I think even the opening credits of this movie go to show how fucked up the ocean can be in a lot of ways, and looking at the mythology behind that. But this movie did something where it reminded me of The Hateful Eight, which is just seeing a movie broken up in chapters, and so it feels like even if that movie is so long, it feels like the little chapters that are and the events that are within those chapters feel so consolidated and well put together that I didn't actually feel the runtime, which was a bit of a surprise for me looking at how fucking long this movie is. I was there every step of the way.

SPEAKER_06 19:03

Oh, I have to completely disagree. I felt every second of this movie, and that is one of my biggest disappointments with it, is that we didn't need chapters, we didn't need 10 minutes of intro. We didn't need well, I won't say that there's like a lot of filler scenes, but we didn't need a an almost two and a half hour movie. We needed a tight 120, but tight 120s didn't exist in the 90s, they like to draw it out.

SPEAKER_04 19:28

They sure did, especially with Sharon Stone involved.

SPEAKER_06 19:30

You are right.

SPEAKER_05 19:31

She's never been in a brief movie, she is not a brief woman, but she's no Sharon Stone Sid.

SPEAKER_01 19:38

I'm interested to see if those who also like underwater stuff as a kid read, or honestly, I didn't read it, but I just looked at all the pictures of those DK books that always had those like encyclopedia things.

SPEAKER_04 19:52

Oh yeah, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:53

Yes. So I knew all of this stuff that went on underwater, I feel like, and all these super scary things from reading these books that I was so enthralled by. And I was honestly kind of disappointed by having the setting underwater and not using it as much. It seemed it was more of a setting than kind of like a villainous aspect, if that makes any sense. Like I wanted it to be more creatures, more things to go on underwater, and it was more about the thrill and you know the claustrophobic feeling inside this ship.

SPEAKER_04 20:31

Alright, so I was obviously surprised that I didn't immediately hate this movie like I thought I would. And I was also surprised with the accuracy of a lot of the scuba stuff that they were talking about. Something I don't know if I've talked about, but I am an advanced open water scuba certified diver, and it's something that I love, and I was proud to see that the science checked out.

SPEAKER_06 20:51

I mean, Paris, I think that's the easy one though. Like, you can't do the underwater movie without having some accuracy there.

SPEAKER_04 20:58

Oh Mama, they've tried it so many times, and I'm like, nope, nope.

SPEAKER_06 21:02

Have you seen The Little Mermaid? No.

SPEAKER_04 21:04

There was a moment in this movie where I was like, no, absolutely not. That's not how that works.

SPEAKER_06 21:09

We're definitely on board with that moment because there was a moment where I'm like, you guys have been so accurate. What is this?

SPEAKER_00 21:14

I'll say I was surprised by something. I did not recall, you know, thinking back to when I watched this when I was younger, that the dialogue seemed so natural. And the first half of the movie, where there's we just get a lot of back and forth, there's just like small little segments of the dialogue that seem really natural. It just seems like it's coming from the character. There's other parts of the dialogue that are obviously scripted and that's to be expected, but there's like small moments that like truly felt like these are just two people talking to each other, and um you know, about stuff that is crazy, but about stuff that maybe they would talk to each other about in in their characters. So um later in the film we get some dialogue. Some of it I did not like, um, especially how they refer to one of the other characters, but um, I think in the In the first half, you know, we we get this like I at least I got this feel that like these are just some peeps talking to each other in a crazy situation.

SPEAKER_06 22:07

I agree with you in the same way that I agree that curb your enthusiasm feels natural because we know it is people talking to each other, but there's an unnaturalness about it, and that's how this movie made me feel. Like I I think they would say these things to each other, but it didn't necessarily feel like the most natural dialogue, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_08 22:29

You know what? It felt very natural to me in all the worst ways, because it's like, yes, the misogyny was real in the fucking 90s. It's still real now, but the gaslighting in this movie is absolutely outrageous.

SPEAKER_05 22:41

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_08 22:42

You know what else is outrageous? How not scared of this movie I am. Okay, I'm here to say something.

SPEAKER_04 22:48

Chris was scared.

SPEAKER_08 22:49

Was I scared of the movie? Absolutely not. Was I scared at the idea of being in this movie? Abso fucking lutely. This isn't okay, as someone who cannot swim, I know, in the name of your five years, can't swim. But the um the idea of being in a room that's filling with water when you're already under water, the idea of like just trying your hardest to run in place and still not get anywhere, absolutely terrifying for me. This movie haunted me in a way that I didn't, I don't think I didn't think it intended to. The scares that are built into this movie, as you would think of a traditional horror movie or thriller, those didn't do it for me. It was purely just the water stuff. Honestly, collateral damage.

SPEAKER_04 23:31

Once again, Chris and I are two sides of the same coin. As a child, I once closed the shower curtain and tried to fill up the bathtub all the way up to the ceiling so that I could be underwater. So things like that did not scare me. Also, the moments where there are antagonists, whatever form they may take, uh also weren't scary to me because scientifically a lot of it was inaccurate, which later I was kind of like, okay, you know what? Maybe I was a little harsh. Um, but even like the psychological, like, people are the are the villain element of it wasn't that scary to me either because I feel like it was maybe not executed in the best way to enlicit fear, which this movie never claimed to be a horror movie, so I can't really dock points for that.

SPEAKER_01 24:11

Yeah, I wouldn't necessarily be scared of this movie, or I'm not scared of it, but Chris, you do bring up a good point. Being in this movie would be terrifying for me as well, just the themes that they explore, and honestly, being in this like rickety thing, like it's not rickety, it doesn't seem rickety, but at certain points it really does. It seems rickety.

SPEAKER_08 24:32

Honestly, there is a point where this movie opens and Dustin Hoffman is in a helicopter over the ocean, and it threw me back to hanging out the side of a helicopter taking pictures over the ocean, and I was just like immediately transported to this like heart-racing, just incredible fear that I was gonna just fall and die.

SPEAKER_00 24:51

Oh god. But were you more worried about the water or putting out fires on a ship?

SPEAKER_08 24:56

I was more worried about the water. Uh the fires. The fires were uh stressful.

SPEAKER_00 25:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 25:02

I don't know. We had damage control lockers and I knew how to fight fires in the Navy, so I wasn't really stressed about that.

SPEAKER_00 25:09

I I'm gonna join you in this. I I'm not obviously scared of the movie, but I think it contains within it stuff that I would not want to experience in real life. I do not like creatures under the water, especially like that I can't see them very well. Like a large cat that could eat my face off. If I can see it and it's broad daylight and it's out on land, I'm okay. I want to see it from a distance. But if there's something under the water, it could be the tiniest of fish. If it touches my foot, I am getting out of the water. I do not like it one bit. And fish are something I understand. Like I get it. It's a fish, I eat it, whatever. Sharks, I get it. They eat me, whatever. Things with tentacles, I don't like. Except for except for the octopus. Like, an octopus is cool. I want to see it solve puzzles because they're so smart and they're so cute. But jellyfish are the just nightmarish, especially the big ones that you apparently can like die from. I I'm not into that. I don't like the squashiness of them all and the fact that just they just float. I hate that.

SPEAKER_08 26:05

Yeah, they just want to hug you. It's a texture thing.

SPEAKER_00 26:07

Yeah, they want to hug you until you can't hug them back.

SPEAKER_06 26:09

Well, sometimes love works like that. Well, let me just say, I'm not really afraid of the water things in this movie. I'm not quite Paris, but a little bit more to Paris Society. I grew up around a lot of water. Water really doesn't do that for me. But in my opinion, this movie is horror to me. There's a lot of horrific things that happen in it. There's if you're afraid of the water, there's that for you. If you're afraid of people, there's that for you. If you are into a psychological thing, there's that for you. If you're into a sci-fi thing, there's that for you. There's so many different elements. And I I think that, of course, you can have an argument about whether or not this is horror, but for me it is. I wasn't necessarily afraid, but I I think at the point that we're watching this is a little bit too old in its styling and everything to be scary, but still horror for me. Um I'm this is a hill I'll die on. I'm down for it.

SPEAKER_00 27:04

But was it original?

SPEAKER_08 27:06

Okay, there's one thing that I think this movie tries to do that leads me to believe that the book it's based on is probably original in some regards, but from a cinematic experience, this isn't anywhere close to being original. Not original for me.

SPEAKER_01 27:22

I feel like there has been a movie, and I don't know if it's Pandorum. I don't know if anyone's seen that where the ending is very similar to this movie. So I'm not sure. Obviously, that movie came way after this movie, but I don't know if it feels like it's been done before, but maybe this is the OG of it all. I don't know. I think Alien is more OG for this.

SPEAKER_00 27:47

Yeah, this is Alien submerged. Well, I think there's a lot of things that came out before, even before the novel. I mean, things like Solaris that came out um, I think in the 70s, you know. So there's also the whole aspect that they mention in the film Jules Verne. So the entirety of all the works that Jules Verne wrote kind of led to this occurring and this being a thing. There's other movies that are based on being in enclosed spaces. There's other movies based on fear being the greatest antagonist versus other humans or other beings or something like that. So I I don't think it's original. I I definitely enjoy this film's usage of all the different things it's playing upon, but I think it's it's obviously calling back to a lot of things that came before it.

SPEAKER_04 28:32

So I'm kind of with you, Alexis. I feel like this reminded me of a lot of things, but then I thought about it, and a lot of those things came after this movie. Things like the movie Underwater starring Kristen Stewart. Things like Interstellar, in a way. But initially I got a lot of alien vibes, which did come before this movie, and it felt like this was Alien but underwater, and then took it in a different direction, which I thought was original. So I'm actually gonna give this some props for originality.

SPEAKER_08 29:01

Hmm, this is alien but underwater, but alien was Jaws in space. So really, who's winning here? Stop the sea creatures.

SPEAKER_01 29:09

But it's also got those Event Horizon vibes, which is one of my favorite sci-fi movies, and you're talking about the psychological effects of, you know, being on a ship, which also giving its uh originality less and less points.

SPEAKER_08 29:23

Yeah. Because here's the thing even Event Horizon had a better ending than this movie.

SPEAKER_00 29:27

Oh, let me say the ending in this movie, it's like it it shoots for okay, you know, but it's so imperfect. Um, I think they they have this mechanism that they use to resolve a secondary crisis brought up at just the the last you know minute of the movie, but it makes it kind of feel like family friendly in that moment. Yeah, the way they they're able to get through it. And it it feels like they had another thought, but they just didn't have the time or budget to make it happen.

SPEAKER_08 29:53

It had massive kumbaya energy, and I wasn't here for it. That and Power Rangers, um very astute observation, yes.

SPEAKER_01 30:01

Yes, yes. Um, I yeah, it was very underwhelming for me. I did think it needed a nice little bow, which it got, and I feel like it would have been a better movie had you not had that.

SPEAKER_00 30:12

Yeah, I think the ultimate solution if you're in you know in need of a good ending in a horror movie is kill everyone.

SPEAKER_06 30:17

Well, I was thinking this very clearly feels like it was a novel, and they have so much to go from that they have to just wrap it up at some point. So I think if you need more, maybe you go read the book. But the ending here doesn't feel great.

SPEAKER_04 30:31

I agree. The ending felt kind of loose. It felt a little bit like maybe it wasn't completely thought out, and I never read the book, so maybe it just wasn't executed as well as it was in the book, but I feel like towards the end is when things kind of started to crumble apart for me, and that wasn't just story-wise, that was more like performance-wise, character-wise. I was kind of like, okay, what are we actually doing here? What's going on? But I would say the peak climax of the movie, I was like, okay, I see you. I am mad about that.

SPEAKER_08 31:03

Well, you may not have been mad about that, but let's see how mad we are all at these ratings. Now let's go ahead and start making our way to our scoring. But first, Alexis, how many people died in this film?

SPEAKER_01 31:13

We have a total of four bodies in this movie.

SPEAKER_06 31:17

And what about the animal report? The animal report is interesting this week. There are some spineless actions that occur. Maybe nothing that Pete would cry over, but a gentle bit of caution going in.

SPEAKER_08 31:29

Well, let's go ahead and get into our ratings then. Sphere. 1998, winner of round two of the co-host clash. Was it a hacker or slash?

SPEAKER_00 31:38

I will copy Pyrrhus' lead and I'll go first. And I'm going to give this an obvious slash. This is one of my favorites. It's one of those movies, like you mentioned, that it can be a comfort movie for me. Um, I don't watch it that often. You know, I think The Princess Bride is more like a real comfort movie for me. But this is something that I can watch it from start to finish. Five years later, I can do it again, and each time I enjoy every moment of the film, for the most part. Um, it's just fairly entertaining. Um, it's got things that I like. So it's got sci-fi, it's got some scares, it's got some creepiness, it's got people having some good dialogue. I just think it's all in all just an entertaining film.

SPEAKER_06 32:15

Okay, so hear me out. Have you ever met somebody and you don't know them, but you know they look exactly like their dad?

SPEAKER_00 32:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 32:23

Like you never met their dad, but you it just some men just look exactly like their dad, even if you don't know what they look like, you know?

SPEAKER_00 32:29

That's a premise.

SPEAKER_06 32:31

This movie, I've never met it, never seen it, but it feels so comforting. It feels like I've seen it before. It feels nostalgic, but I've never been here. I don't know who I don't know this movie at all. Um, that was a really roundabout way of saying that I really enjoyed watching this movie. It was really entertaining. It wasn't perfect. There's definitely some things I don't like. It could easily be said that this is just alien underwater. And I'm okay with that. It it's not the same in in a way that's miserable. And honestly, the entertainment value of this movie is enough that I didn't care about the stuff that was really wrong. It just felt good to watch. It was long and it took some effort to get through, but not because it was bad, just because it's long, and and I feel like that's just how things were. We didn't run a tight 120 in 1998, and that's okay. Everything isn't perfect. So this is a slash for me. It's just a movie that like you I feel like you could just put on and enjoy, and it's there's nothing to argue about here, you know.

SPEAKER_01 33:28

Yeah, this is definitely one of those movies I watched, and usually I'm thoroughly taking notes where I'm pausing the movie, but I knew I didn't have that time because I did not want to be watching this for three plus hours by stopping taking notes, and I'm glad I did that because it was a different experience that I had because of the breaks. It did not feel like two hours and some change. So, weirdly enough, you know how I hate long movies, but this was entertaining, and I think it's because it reminds me of Jurassic Park. I don't know, it's so cinematic to me that it's not something I would ever go for, but it's something someone would put on, and I'd be like, oh wow, maybe I should watch stuff other than horror movies. But with that said, this is not a horror movie. I do respect its place in history, and I'm gonna give it a slash. It's totally horror. It's definitely not.

SPEAKER_04 34:25

So even though I finished this movie and really had to figure out how this slipped under the radar, especially after last week I was being accused of slipping a non-horror movie into the lineup. The Neon Demon is definitely more of a horror movie than Sphere. But my expectations for this movie were so low, they were pretty much at the bottom of the Mariana Trench, that I was surprisingly entertained by this movie. At one point I literally wrote down, I was like, this movie's lucky that I enjoy themes of consciousness and that I love cephalopods. Because let's really touch in on those super specific things that I like. I was like, this really lucked out this week. Um, I thought the beginning was pretty fun. A cast of familiar faces I knew almost everybody helped to make this movie feel familiar to me as well, Ryan, even though I'd never seen it. I liked the way that this movie toyed with themes of like perception and reality, and it got very cerebral towards the end. And this movie had some really memorable scenes that I liked. But I was watching this with my boyfriend, and the last 40 minutes of this movie really fell apart for us. We were asking so many questions. We were laughing a lot, but it was at the movie and not with the movie. And there were still some things throughout that I was like, okay, I kinda like that, I kinda like this, but this is a movie that I cannot justify slashing. However, I am so surprised by how much I did not hate this that it is a very, very gentle hack.

SPEAKER_06 35:51

Why can't you just let good things be what they are and enjoy them?

SPEAKER_04 35:54

Because this ain't a horror movie, and this cannot taint my collection of slashes.

SPEAKER_08 35:58

Because he likes the neon demon. Right. Just for the sake of it. Well, I can let good things just be good things. And this movie was a really good thing, despite how much I hated the misogyny in this film. It really hit some very specific fears for me, and that's a that's something that even a lot of other underwater movies don't do well enough for me to actually be afraid of it. You know, how many times have we watched a Jaws movie and I'm just like, okay, it's cool. I mean, it was sucked beaten by a shark, but I'm fine. This movie, though, really paced itself well, and it it mixed in some levity and some comedy in really dry, subtle ways that I wasn't anticipating. And for as long as it was, I actually really appreciated the way this movie paced its story. I know you all said the last 40 minutes fell apart for you, right? I know things kind of trudge along at some point. Really, everything up until the very last thing we get was totally fine for me. And this movie's getting a slash.

SPEAKER_04 37:04

Okay, I have questions I would like to have discussed in the second half of the episode.

SPEAKER_08 37:10

Well, hold your questions because for now, the tables have turned. This week in round two of the co-host clash, the film has earned four slashes and one hack.

SPEAKER_04 37:20

I am not just hacking this to be a contrarian. If you watch this movie, you will know what I'm talking about. It absolutely falls apart that at the end.

SPEAKER_08 37:25

Contrarian to be contrarian. That's fine.

SPEAKER_04 37:28

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_08 37:29

You can find this movie available for rent or purchase. Either way, check it out. Then join us in the second half so we can go deep sea diving together. We'll see you in a bit.

SPEAKER_00 37:43

You are strong. You are smart. You are capable. Here at Jerry's Dream Center for Manifestation, we teach you how to put out the right energy into the world to manifest the reality you want to see. Talk to one of our board-certified hypnotists to help you move beyond your fears. Shed the weight of reality in one of our deep-sea sensory deprivation tanks and wrap up your day with a prescription drug cocktail that will strip your mind of any idea of what's real and what's not. So add Jerry's Dream Center for Manifestation to your mood board.

SPEAKER_08 38:28

Now we have lots to unpack here, but before we get into the specifics of our ratings, we do have a little bit of gore to attend to.

SPEAKER_04 38:58

I think low is fair.

SPEAKER_01 39:00

Drowned bodies is pretty gory. Not necessarily in this movie, but generally, drowned bodies are very gory. What do they look like? Are they like blown up? I feel like I they're blown up somehow.

SPEAKER_04 39:11

They're bloated. It's like when you take on water, but worse.

SPEAKER_01 39:15

So these bodies were not actual representation of what would happen if a body was underwater for a very long time.

SPEAKER_08 39:22

I'm saying that this movie, uh first off, Fletcher's face was disgusting with the jellyfish. That's I think we can I think we can acknowledge that. I agree with your rating. I think it's it's low for the movie. I'm just saying that drowned bodies are nothing to to scoff at.

SPEAKER_06 39:38

Are anybody's okay?

SPEAKER_01 39:40

I think they're all not something to scoff at. I mean, I do see where they're coming from. Like I mentioned, and I probably have said this word 50 million times already in the podcast, but cinematic movies that are made for people other than us and the general public will have less gore. So I assume that's why the gore is low in this movie.

SPEAKER_00 40:00

Yeah, it's gotta have mass appeal.

SPEAKER_06 40:02

Yeah, I mean, I think it's easy to agree on a low scoring for this one.

SPEAKER_01 40:07

I mean, I'm trying to think of a favorite kill. I could say Flexure because it was really cool that scene, and the aftermath is interesting to see. I don't know. I none of these stood out to me.

SPEAKER_08 40:22

Mine is definitely Barnes getting cut in half by the fucking door because it reminded me of a very specific thing when you are setting material conditions on a ship, and there's like some conditions where certain types of doors can be opened and certain types of doors have to be closed. And there's a reason why you can't you shouldn't and you can't wear jewelry on boats, and it's because your hand can get de-gloved if it gets caught. Like with yeah, your skin can get caught when opening a door. And I remember there's one point where I was wearing a ring, and I shouldn't have been wearing the ring, but I also went to go on one side of the hatch to open it, and someone from the other side grabbed the handle on the other side and threw it open, and my finger got caught, and the only thing that stopped it from getting pinched was the fact that I had a ring on it got caught, and I was like fucking banging on the hatch. Hatches and doors for me are a really weird thing, like in an aquatic setting, and that that one gave me gave me some chills. Was it a little cheesy? Absolutely, but uh it was my favorite aside from the beauty of the jellyfish.

SPEAKER_06 41:26

Well, that cheesy moment where we know he gets cut in half and then it says, secured, it was great. Oh yeah. I think not that it's a favorite kill, but for me, my favorite part of Fletcher's kill is when they have her back on the table, and it felt like a moment where we were gonna get the thing, you know, that kind of craziness happening and those kind of effects and stuff. We didn't get too much, but I mean, pulling like a jellyfish out of someone's sinuses basically, uh, that was enough for me.

SPEAKER_04 41:55

Yeah, Fletcher's kill was definitely my favorite, mostly because it was beautiful, partially because it was absurd and ridiculous. My boyfriend was like, jellyfish could do that. They might be capable of that. We don't know. Maybe they've been dormant this whole time. And I was like, babe, they don't have any muscles, they don't have a skeletal structure, and they are fully uh at the whims of the current. They cannot swim against any sort of force, let alone make an impact.

SPEAKER_08 42:21

She did say these were unlike jellyfish that actually exist.

SPEAKER_04 42:25

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_08 42:26

She she was very particular in stating that these are not normal jellyfish.

SPEAKER_04 42:29

Did anybody else laugh during that scene though? That was a funny scene, though, right?

SPEAKER_06 42:32

I laughed because she said, Oh, this is so beautiful eight times. And I was like, I'm I'm certain someone can come up with a different line for her here because she just kept saying, Oh, this is so beautiful. Oh, this is so beautiful, and it was ridiculous.

SPEAKER_08 42:49

To be fair, it was very beautiful. And to be fair, sometimes you'd be out there seeing things you'd never seen before.

SPEAKER_01 42:56

No, I agree with that. You know, when you go to a store and you're like, Oh my gosh, this is so cute. This is cute. This is cute. My mom and I do this all the time, and I realize how stupid we probably sound.

SPEAKER_07 43:07

Oh my god, this is so beautiful. Guys, are you seeing this? This is so beautiful. Look at this home good section.

SPEAKER_06 43:14

Okay, but it was the same thing over and over, and it and she said it with like the same inflection. It was just a rough acting moment for Queen Latifah here. Hey, this was before she did Barbershop and Beauty Shop. All I'm saying is it was comical, yes, in some ways, Paris.

SPEAKER_08 43:31

But the real fucked up part of her death was the fact that the water got into her suit and she was drowning. We watched her drown.

SPEAKER_09 43:37

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 43:38

Yeah, that was really that was hard to watch and hard to take in. Because I feel like if anything, that's like a fear people have, you know, when they have these suits on. It's like, will something be malfunctioned during this? Yeah, that's exactly why I don't fucking do that shit. I don't blame you for sure. I am very happy though that Samuel L. Jackson was not eaten by. Shark in this movie, like one of my other favorite underwater movies, which is Deep Blue Sea.

SPEAKER_00 44:07

I actually rated since there's so few kills, I just rated them. I ranked them in order of my favorite, and of course, like Fletcher's number one for me because it's such a cool scene. I think the lead up to that is more interesting. Not like seeing them, you're you're thinking, okay, this is weird. But I think when like the panic happens is the same moment that we would all panic, where it's like they're sticking to my suit, like um, this is game over, and you like start to get that frantic feeling, the tingle in the back of your head, and all that. Number two for me is gonna be Barnes cut in half by the door, kind of like you mentioned, Chris. But number three for me, I think I'm gonna go with Edmonds. Because I think Edmonds, you know something's up. Like, yeah, the fielding death with the fire and everything, like that sucks. I don't think any of us would pick that as a favorite because it just kind of seems like thrown in there almost. But I think the Edmonds kill is a solid one. Not that, you know, sure, we don't see it on screen, who cares? But like when you start to think about like what caused that, and then the eggs start to fall down. Like, we're watching this. My wife's like, oh my god, those are eggs. There's a squid, there's a squid, there's a squid somewhere, giant squid. We just know it's gonna happen. And while it's pretty obvious at the point what's going to happen, I think there is this like massive fear of this like giant thing coming to like attack your place that you're living in way under the water, way further than any human being should be living. And what are you gonna do about it? There's literally nothing you could do.

SPEAKER_06 45:23

Well, I mean, there is literally an escape pod, and there is something they could do. I'm not really sure why they waited so long, but yeah, sure, you have a point.

SPEAKER_08 45:33

But imagine if this thing is doing that to that entire habitat, what is it gonna do for your tiny ass little sub? Well, it worked at the end. Well, and they figured out it was fake. They didn't know it was fake before.

SPEAKER_00 45:45

Well, they killed everything, they blew it all up.

SPEAKER_01 45:46

It's interesting, not that I want to keep talking about Flexher's death or jellyfish, but honestly, favorite visual, and it was cool because as much as I really did hate some of the special effects that were done in this movie, and it seemed like it would be a better movie shot for shot in today's day and age. I do love it because some parts of that scene feel real, so I'm not sure if real jellyfish were used or some sort of puppets, or I'm not exactly sure, but you got it.

SPEAKER_00 46:18

It's actually both of them.

SPEAKER_01 46:19

Oh, interesting. Okay. At first it did look like a screen of jellyfish, but then I'm glad they intertwined both of those. It was just so fascinating to see all that. And I don't know, jellyfish are one of my favorite things at the aquarium here. It's just so tranquil, and to go from tranquility to fear, it was just so beautiful to see that transition.

SPEAKER_08 46:41

Oh, I 100% agree. And I think this movie's ability to capture that tranquility, even when they're first you know, descending down into the deep. I really enjoyed a lot of the wide shots that we get of the habitat of them moving through the water when you see how vast that space is and how open that space is. And honestly, that feels so empty and frightening and also claustrophobic at the same time because you're still surrounded by it. And the way they were able to capture that while still filming in water tanks is absolutely mind-blowing to me.

SPEAKER_06 47:19

I had that thought a few times while watching this as well, and I was like, are they in some pools? Which I mean, obviously they are, but it is crazy how it doesn't feel that way so many times throughout this movie. For me, my favorite visual element is kind of a cheap and easy one, but it's obvious and it's the sphere. It's real cool, it's real out of place, it has a very interesting thing happening with it. I think part of why I like it is because I don't like it a little bit. When you first see it, you're just like, what the heck? And it grows on you, and then there's a lot of really good shots done around it, especially at the very end with them just like staring into it. There's just some interesting stuff, and I didn't need to have all of my questions answered to still enjoy it, and I I would have stood staring at that sphere too.

SPEAKER_09 48:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 48:06

I mean, I'm gonna be honest, I'm surprised that it's uh this far into the episode, and I still haven't said a thing about this sphere. Right. How dare you guys. It's cool that like that realization that Dustin Hoffman has when he's like, why is you know, why are we the only things it's not reflecting? It seems like a choice, right? I'm like, it's cool, it's cool, I'll give you that.

SPEAKER_01 48:24

Okay, you you guys didn't think it was cheap looking kind of when they were flying through it.

SPEAKER_04 48:29

I sure did.

SPEAKER_01 48:30

No, I hated it at first, but freaking hated it.

SPEAKER_06 48:34

That's like part of what brought me around to loving it. You know, what what is loving worth if not hate first?

SPEAKER_04 48:42

But then also, like, we fully watched Dustin Hoffman go into the sphere and then act the rest of the movie as if that never happened. And the whole I feel like the movie was gaslighting me. I was like, we saw him go in the sphere. Why are we not talking about this?

SPEAKER_06 48:53

He didn't know.

SPEAKER_00 48:54

I mean, it was definitely a major plot point. And they they did like a lot of movies, they had to bring it back to the end and show you, yes, this is what has happened in the film to make it all add up. But I think you were supposed to kind of feel that a little bit. Like, I know he went in there. Why doesn't he know that he went in there? And then you realize all of them went in there one by one and and perhaps didn't realize it.

SPEAKER_08 49:13

Because really, the point of the movie is to make you feel like Beth.

SPEAKER_00 49:16

Oh, I felt like the movie was gaslighting me, so that definitely happened. I'm just gonna give some credit to the to the set design because the habitat I think was amazing inside and outside. The massive spaceship, which I mean, the spaceship and the sphere don't get a lot of play in sphere, which is kind of I think a great thing because you don't need to see everything played out. You don't need to see every detail and be in like watch a video within the movie on like what the sphere is and what it does and what the size is like it doesn't matter, like move on. And I and I love that it was just enough of it to where you get a taste of what's happening. I think the spaceship itself was really cool. I love like the little like like the treat wrapper, whatever that was, almost like a little Debbie snack or like a Twinkie or something where they realize that it's an American ship. That part was a beautiful touch.

SPEAKER_08 50:00

The smokehouse almonds, yes.

SPEAKER_00 50:02

Yeah, what was that? Was that what that was? I didn't even realize.

SPEAKER_08 50:04

It was and the trash basura.

SPEAKER_00 50:07

I love that. So yeah, I think all of the set design I was really pleased with. I think that's what like it makes it feel bigger, it makes everything feel like a much bigger area because it seems pretty well designed.

SPEAKER_04 50:18

Yeah, the design of that ship was definitely giving me like alien vibes. It looked pretty well done and pretty of the times for what they thought future was gonna be like, but also at the same time very present for what they had going on, which I still have questions about. But I think my favorite visual element had to be when it was raining squid eggs, because it was so beautiful. And Alexis, like you were saying, it was very peaceful, and also like they were scared too, which was kind of a nice juxtaposition, but just like seeing those eggs slowly floating down and just bouncing around, I was like, oh, they're gonna be little baby squidlings, and it was like cute and it was pretty.

SPEAKER_06 50:52

Paris, that was of course beautiful, but also terribly horrifying, right? It came to a point where there were so many of those eggs that they were like tripping over them and like stomping into them, which is just like uh disgusting, and one of those things that like underneath the water, you can never quite see what you're stepping on and what you're doing, right? So it called back to that. That was a great scene, but I have two other favorite scenes, and one is a small one, and it is Samuel L. Jackson turning everything in the kitchen into those books. It was just like a little tiny thing that happens, but it's just so funny the way the events go, where he doesn't really realize what's going on, and then he starts opening all the cupboards, and they're all this half-finished book, and that's a that's a part of this movie that I wish I had a little bit more of because I loved it. It like, give me more psychological chaos, you know.

SPEAKER_01 51:47

Interesting you said that because at that point I was like, WTF is going on. I didn't understand it, so I kind of needed a little bit more explanation on what was happening in the mechanics, I guess, of the sphere.

SPEAKER_08 52:00

But then you get it.

SPEAKER_01 52:01

Yeah, I'm glad they gave me an explanation. I'm I you know, I'm all for that if someone spells something out. I do not care if you want to leave it less than a mystery for me.

SPEAKER_06 52:10

Yeah, Alexis, I agree. I just think that's like a moment where you just have to be like, okay, like I'm just gonna be along for the ride and figure out what's going on. Going back a little bit, my other favorite scene was once the helicopter lands and that he's kind of taken onto the ship, and they're all just having these little tiny interactions, and like military people are coming up and just basically forcing them into rooms and out of rooms, and like everything is moving very fast, and there's a lot of moving pieces in a scene that is mainly based around dialogue and nothing else happens. It kept me very interested and intrigued. Like I was along for the ride and I was gonna figure something out here. Like I was on the team.

SPEAKER_00 52:49

I I love that you had that experience. I I love that whole sequence of events because I think I don't know what it's like to go into this not having seen the movie, because the last time I did that, I was very young. And to see you all go through this, like that would be such a cool sequence of events to watch happen because you don't know much, especially if you if you have avoided reading much about the film, and then you get to see them not knowing much, and you're like, I I'm with you. What the heck is going on right now? And I just love like when they're like, Do I keep my glasses? Do I not? I don't even need them. And you just kind of see them like panic and go into human mode.

SPEAKER_01 53:20

I know I said the end was underwhelming for me. There was a specific turn of events that happened when they all decided to link their uh powers up to reverse this thing. So rewind a little bit when they're in the mini sub, all three of them packed in and they're going between the reality of what's going on, and then I guess some imagination that they're all bringing up. So are they on the ship? Are they not in the ship? And I think at first we're following the characters, so we think they're on the actual spaceship, but they're not, they're actually in the sub, which I like because I was following along with them on this ride. And like you mentioned, Ryan, I was in it too. So I'm like, what's going on? And I'm pretty sure I just turned it over and my boyfriend said, Oh my gosh, they're actually not on the spaceship. And he probably had no idea what the hell I was talking about. But I it kept me entertained it even up until that point.

SPEAKER_08 54:12

I like that's the moment of chaos that you identify as like being a really great point. For me, it got a little cheesy when he said, It's not our time to die. I'm like, all right, Dustin, chill, bro. But my favorite scene actually is a small one that kind of kicks off the eeriness, and it's Samuel L. Jackson as Harry saying, You know, we're all gonna die down here. And then just very logically pointing out how what a logical deduction it is, because we never make it back. Why are we still here? That delivery of that line was his single most powerful moment in that movie because it was so sudden and so jarring.

SPEAKER_00 54:52

That completely relates to my favorite scene, because my favorite scene was Samuel L. Jackson as well. But when he first wakes up and he's in the kitchen and he's eating and he's like super creeper and they don't know what to make of it yet, but then they give him calamari and he loses it because you don't know if are you gonna get like an alien moment? Is that what's gonna happen? Is he actually a giant squid monster thing in disguise? Is he an alien? It did somebody hijack his body and like watching this with my wife, she's like, Oh my god, like thinking all these things out loud, and I'm just sitting there like, mm-hmm, sure. Like, just wait another half hour and you'll find out. But it's so satisfying because in that moment you're just like, this could go any of 50 different ways, and I don't know what's happening. True.

SPEAKER_08 55:29

I thought it was a trap. I thought Dustin Hoffman was thinking that either he loves it or he hates it, but he knows that reaction. And so if he just casually eats it, knowing that he's like the real hairy is allergic to calamari or something. I thought the jig was gonna be up, but then they didn't do anything with that. And okay, I get I get the fear later on, it's fine, but I was a little disappointed in that moment.

SPEAKER_04 55:51

I had the same thought, Chris. I was really expecting this to be more squidgy than it was. I was kind of teased and tantalized by the tentacles. My favorite scene, however, is when Sharon Stone is caught off guard by one of the random times something busts and starts flooding, and she's like swept away in one of the hallways with a corpse, but the music that's playing is like this really like gentle piano, and it's like seeing her being absolutely like flummoxed by that situation while that music plays so peacefully and serenely. I was like, Oh, this is beautifully done, and I love watching Sharon Stone do anything, particularly swim with a dead body.

SPEAKER_00 56:31

Totally agreed. Sharon Stone was such a highlight, like her delivery of lines. Like, every time she speaks, I just want to be like, say more, because I just want to hear you. So lived in in her performance. And you know, I mean, I know we mentioned it earlier, but the back and forth with her and Dustin Hoffman's character, just absolutely amazing and so so tense, right? Like every time that they speak to each other, you're gonna be like, Dustin, you're gonna say something stupid. Like, I mean, not the actual actor, but his character. And he and he does several times, but not as stupid as, you know, uh Oh, Captain My Captain does. He says some really, really screwed up stuff to her, and it's just so bothersome to me. I mean, the dialogue that they have, like sometimes, you know, we'll we'll get that whole like psychological thing going on. Dustin Hoffman's character is like analyzing everybody, and he'll be really calm the way he talks to everybody. But then other times he's just so perturbed by the fact that she wasn't there and he's like had this fright that he just like lets loose on her unfairly.

SPEAKER_06 57:28

Yeah, he has a very weird approach to talking to people, and uh it was very untherapeutic to say the absolute least. Especially when he was talking to Jerry, I was like, this doesn't seem like he knows how to handle conflict at all.

SPEAKER_04 57:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 57:44

He reminds me of my parents who will yell, even though I'm two feet away from them, or in the other room, Alexis. And I'm like, I'm right here, or text me, or actually stop being lazy and just if you need something from me, come meet me somewhere. But yes, he's always like yelling in this spaceship for people as well.

SPEAKER_08 58:04

What drives me nuts about him as a character is how he just oozes this fraudulent air of confidence and this toxic masculinity.

SPEAKER_04 58:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 58:16

I'm sorry, who else can just, you know, luck their way into writing a bogus reporter memo for 35 grand to use as a down payment on a house, and then you know, the consequence that ends up getting paid is other people's lives, but he's he is totally fine moving on from this whole situation. I really did not like his character at all. I like the movie. I think I might even like the overall story. I'd be willing to try the book, but I really disliked his character. I really disliked Barnes. I I think Beth, Ted, and Harry deserved better than the fates that they ended up getting. I think they deserve better than the trauma that they ended up going through. Ted actually was one that I d I wasn't a big fan of, but I found myself a little bummed when he finally died, especially to go out the way he did trying to help him and then just to not be rescued, right? Like just is if someone could have just woken up and like moved that object off of him. He had a gnarly death for sure. But I don't know, the characters are a little like uh all or nothing for me.

SPEAKER_06 59:16

The characters I think were a bit rough here. And again, this is one of those things where this movie is entertaining enough that sometimes you don't care, but like a lot of this dialogue is so cheesy that it's unbearable. Obviously, the way Beth is treated is unbearable. I unfortunately have some sort of soft spot for Dustin Hoffman in my heart, which is like a weird feeling. I don't know if I'm okay with it. Sometimes that's just how that works, though. And so even as he was being horrible in this movie, I was like, but I but I like him, which is dumb. And I don't like Leave Schreiber, and I don't like that his name is Leave. Um, and Samuel L. Jackson was just like not Samuel L. Jackson and Samuel L. Jackson. You know, he really has two characters he can ever play, and it is trying not to be himself and being himself. And fortunately, we got the authentic part of him for a bit, you know, the grumpy Sam. But seeing Samuel L. Jackson try not to be Samuel L. Jackson is hilarious in and of itself.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:19

You definitely get a good bit of the Capital One Samuel L. Jackson.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:22

Right, exactly. Especially like that breakfast scene. I'm like, oh God.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:26

I know why you don't like leave Schreiber. Why? Because he's caught and weary and scream and he's horrible. I feel like he's one of those characters you see and he plays a bad character in all these other movies that you go in with these presumptuous feelings about a character, which I was like, he's about to be the bad guy, and he wasn't.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:45

Poor guy. Yeah. His parents named him half of the word believe, which is just ridiculous. I don't get it.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:52

I think one of the reasons it's hard to watch Dustin Hoffman play this psychologist or psychiatrist, whatever he is, is because you can tell he's playing the trope and he's not playing a realistic shrink. Like he's he that's what he is. He's playing a 1998 shrink versus somebody who's like well educated and actual, you know, psychologist or psychiatrist, whatever he's supposed to be, I forget. But like he's playing what people thought that he would be in 1998.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:20

I feel that, Mac. It felt like when we brought together this band of characters at the beginning, it was almost like we were summoning like an A-team or something. And of course, my favorite amongst that A-Team was Beth, portrayed by Sharon Stone. I feel like she was super competent. She was uh really one of the more reasonable people underneath the sea with this little pod, and yet never got any respect, was gaslit into no oblivion, so much so that even when it started showing the manifestation of her fears, it was just like those screens coming up with that asshole military dude, and it was just like her fears are being gaslit, the patriarchy, toxic masculinity, because it's what holds her down every single day. And just have watching her have to deal with that, I was just like I couldn't possibly imagine. But I felt like it really helped to build her as a character, and in my opinion, she was the star of this movie.

SPEAKER_08 1:02:18

Can I tell you that she's also part of the worst part of this movie for me, though?

SPEAKER_04 1:02:22

Which part?

SPEAKER_08 1:02:23

Only in the fact that she was in a relationship with Dustin Hoffman's character.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:26

At all, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:02:28

That's really it. I have nothing else against her at all. She's a gem.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:31

I did have qualms.

SPEAKER_08 1:02:33

I hate this predatory, like we had an affair, I ruined your life, you had a psychotic break, I'm not responsible for this.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:42

It's just somehow her fault.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:44

I I just hate it. I just hate it. Is life worth living if it doesn't mean getting involved with messy older men that you shouldn't be a part of? Yes, I do just fine. I'm totally joking there, but I didn't hate that part. I think it's realistic. These things happen with people, colleagues, students, stuff like that. Those are things that happen, and the men usually suck.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:09

But this is linked to my to my least favorite part of this movie. There's a lot that I enjoy, but it definitely comes back to that moment when they realize, oh my gosh, however many years ago she was in a bad way and uh, you know, try to commit suicide. And then all the men decide whether or not that was one, a real suicide attempt, and two, whether or not she can be trusted, even though she's like a valued member of this team who has proved that the entire time, suddenly she's just crazy. Don't listen to anything she says. That was like the worst segment of the movie for me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:43

It also didn't make sense because like they invited her there and were also upset about like it was just a weird thing. He was like, I have her files. And I'm like, didn't you bring everybody there? Like, yes, didn't you assemble the team?

SPEAKER_08 1:03:55

Tell you what, folks, lesson learned, moral of this story and really moral of life. You don't know how other people feel, so don't presume to. Don't tell people how they feel. It's absolutely maddening. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:08

That's why I quoted that in the beginning because when Barnes was like absolutely just throwing her under the bus, it was so over the top and yet so realistic that I I couldn't help but laugh when he's like, Don't listen to her, she's crazy, pull the lever. I was just like, Really? We brought this brilliant biologist down here, and we're just gonna No, don't listen to her, she's crazy.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:27

Well, also, it was a weird set of things that happened there when they were talking about pulling the lever because he was like looking at her like, should I pull it? And she's like, But there's fires, and are they gonna die? Because if that's the case, we'll have to deal with the fires. It was just all a weird triangle of things happening. And honestly, there's a lot of that that happens in this movie. That's why I don't really care for the characters and the dialogue that much. But they're not the worst parts. There's two worst parts. One is when Norman is like constantly talking to Jerry and does absolutely nothing to try to help the situation. There's no interaction that he he doesn't get any good information, he doesn't ask good questions, he just kind of yells at a computer screen. And then Paris, yes, you there's a thing where the code doesn't match up and it's dumb, and you you really just have to pretend like it all makes sense when Norman's just like, oh, they messed up the code. And like, well, the all those other words did make sense. You know what would have made sense though?

SPEAKER_08 1:05:24

If they said, Oh no, it's it's pronounced hairy, it's just with it's spelled with a J because bilingual Spanish. That would have worked.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:32

Yeah, well, that stuff was dumb, but obviously the absolute worst part of this movie is the ending when they hold hands and say, Let's forget.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:39

It's kind of like they were like, We need to end this, and uh, we only have this much budget left, so let's just end it.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:45

It's almost as bad as a wake up from a dream ending. And they couldn't figure out amongst them who had gone into this fear, but all of a sudden they can figure out how to conquer it and send it back where it came from.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:56

I think the best ending they could have gone with is literally they make it. All the way there, and they do their wishy-washy thing, and then Sharon Stone wakes up and she's still underwater.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:05

Or we get the scene that we have, and the very last shot is Samuel Jackson with his fingers crossed behind his back.

SPEAKER_09 1:06:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:14

That would be very interesting. It's funny that you mentioned like unrealistic things. So I think the worst part for me was these little nuances of either so much sci-fi with all the buttons, which is what I thought you were gonna say on this entire podcast, and you didn't. I love the buttons, they're ridiculous. But this isn't as bad as Alien. Alien was like, here is a wall of buttons. This was very similar, but I hated they went through all these mechanics of having to go down and you know neutralize the oxygen that's you know in this habitat. Yet Dustin Hoffman's character can seemingly open up a hatch and swim without the pressure crushing him somehow.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:57

So they mentioned that when they're giving them, you know, their little like introductory speech, and they say that because they're getting used to the pressure, they're going through that process, they could pop outside for a swim if they wouldn't die of hypothermia within two minutes.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:11

And he didn't die, so what the fuck? Yeah, he was out there for longer than two. I could promise you that. It's just a bit far-fetched.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:18

Yeah, because like it's not like two minutes is oh, you have hypothermia, you're dead. It's like it's building up the whole time. So every second you're out there, you're getting closer to death.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:27

Right, but also they're staying in like a pressurized place that absolutely is not gonna be matching the pressure of however deep down they were. I don't know. Also, he's a frail old man.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:39

Oddly enough, um, apparently he was very, like, very fit during the filming of this. Like, would literally they would do training and he would like hop out and do like do pull-ups.

SPEAKER_08 1:07:48

Who cares if Dustin Hoffman was fit? His character wasn't fit. You know what I mean? Like just short. He's not rocking abs under there. I mean, you're not giving him enough credit. Short people are shaped different. Short people may be shaped different, but this psychologist, I highly doubt, was a man of just crossfit and paleo. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 1:08:08

Listen, I can say that they did scientifically justify the pressure of it all, but the temperature they specifically went out of their way to say your body will be adjusted to the pressure, but the temperature is what will kill you. And then fully were just like, nah, it's fine, whatever.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:21

They did say, Don't go out there, you'll freeze.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:24

Mm-hmm. As the single solitary hack on this movie, I have come prepared with three worst parts. Uh, the first one, the Harry and Jerry gag. Ryan, I I did suspend my disbelief. I was like, you know what? There's letters in there that make that make no sense, but I'm fine with it. But then they kept talking about it, and the whole exposition of it, like Dustin Hoffman was like, Harry is Jerry. Jerry is Harry. Don't you get it, Sharon Stone? It's because the letters were make and I was like, please stop. Just the more you're saying it, the more I'm losing my ability to go along with it.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:55

And we got it an hour ago. Uh-huh. Once again, Harry with a J-E. Like Jesus, but Jesus.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:02

Another part that I hated, but eventually kind of just grew to love because it became hilarious was how everybody just seemed to keep going on these like casual underwater jaunts across the seafloor as if they just needed to like step out and get some air. I was like, where are you going? She's like, Yeah, I'm going to look for food. I'm like, where though? And just like how little drama seemed to be. It's like, oh yeah, I'll just throw the suit on and check out the seafloor again. Don't mind me, I'll be back in a couple minutes. Like that felt like it should have warranted more attention and reasoning.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:34

At least like a montage of putting the suit on, you know.

SPEAKER_08 1:09:37

That's like when you're playing DD and you have either a really harsh DM that does make you account for the time it takes to put on and take off armor, or the chill DM who's like, cool, cool, cool, yeah, you just do it.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:50

Yeah, this was the chill DM for sure.

SPEAKER_08 1:09:52

This movie is the rule of cool in DD.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:55

And then finally, we touched on a little bit before, but the chapter markers. It seemed like every five minutes we got one that was like the sub, the hallway over there.

SPEAKER_08 1:10:04

Actually, it was the surface, the deep, the spacecraft, the analysis, the sphere, the power, the first exchange, battle stations, further analysis.

SPEAKER_09 1:10:14

It's a lot.

SPEAKER_08 1:10:15

I enjoyed them. I was like, ooh, the first exchange. It's coming up. Paris.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:20

I'm so excited to hear what you have up your sleeve for that best part.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:24

Oh, bitch. Wow.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:26

As you are claimed to be nothing but a rule follower.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:30

It's me. It's me this time. Okay. There were definitely good parts about this movie. Don't get me wrong. It was entertaining. Sharon Stone is one of the best parts of this movie.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:39

You already said that. You can't use that.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:40

I think Queen Latifah is also one of the best parts of this movie. So, Chris, when your coworker mentioned that that was the first thing that they thought of, ask me a year from now, I'll be like, that's the one with Queen Latifah, right? I have no doubt that that will be the case.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:52

I think that's a valid one because the jellyfish scene, Queen Latifah, it really makes the movie.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:57

Okay, but also I think I must be smoking some kind of special grass because I actually enjoyed the final scene where they were like, what can we do to resolve this? And they were like, oh, let's all collectively forget. And in my brain, it made me really have to like work some muscles. And I was like, um, does that make sense? And I was like, oh, oh, okay. You know what? That is kind of cool. And those were like the little elements where I was like, this movie is interesting and probably inspired movies like Interstellar and things like that that have come since.

SPEAKER_08 1:11:27

It really just gave me too much it energy. It's like, okay, we all gotta forget, but one person's gotta remember, or promise to never forget, or promise to come back. You know what I mean? It was just very much like it was a it was a massive kumbayel moment that I just uh could not get down with. Yeah, it was childish.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:43

And I think the the two things are separate that we see at the end, right? So the sphere leaving is separate. They didn't think anything about that. They thought the sphere was destroyed. So they weren't even worried about like trying to get rid of it or send it away. They didn't know that was going to happen. They were just worried about like we can't have this knowledge, like they mentioned in the film. Like, one, I don't want to manifest crazy stuff when I'm sleeping. And then two, if we somehow know this, then we will change the future, but also you can't change the future. So it doesn't really matter.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:08

Wait, Mac, I thought the sphere left because everyone had forgotten about it, so it wasn't gonna get to do its sphere thing.

SPEAKER_08 1:12:14

I thought that was a physical representation of it not existing to them anymore. Yeah, just return back to space so that someone else could find it.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:21

I think they also realize at the very end, like obviously this whole film, the sphere is is setting horrible events in motion, but they realize at the very end that's only because they weren't ready. Like humans as a species were not ready for what it had to offer them. So it really wasn't there to destroy, but they just like weren't capable of using it in a way that it's meant to be used. And so when they choose to forget about it, the sphere is somehow conscious, obviously, and the sphere decides at that point like, cool, I'll come back when you're ready. But in reality, it goes somewhere that they find it in 300 years and bring it back.

SPEAKER_08 1:12:51

Okay. This is that episode of Harley Quinn, the animated series, where she gets Dark Side to give her these minions to conquer the the earth, and she's like, Oh, uh JK. And he's like, I'll come back for you one day, and then just like doesn't come back. That's what this is, right? It's just like, look at this big deal that could really change everything and just casually disappear for a while.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:16

Well, yeah, this is a thing that I was about to text Mac about because I was like, This is the spiel of of sci-fi, kind of, right? Like the ending is all about either now everything's doomed or everything isn't doomed, but it could have been, and it's just gonna kind of be an ambiguous, maybe it'll happen again someday kind of ending. I don't know. That's what I get out of sci-fi a lot.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:38

Well, I mean, the whole thing with time travel, one, it it doesn't and cannot exist, so who even cares? But in in this film, they establish this idea that they're gonna go with that you know, this thing somehow came back from from the future, and they don't want to change the events in the future. So therefore they they can't do that, they can't let anybody else know what's going to happen, otherwise the people who build that spaceship are going to know and then they're going to avoid receiving it, and then suddenly the whole course of the universe has changed. So it's like whatever. But at the same time, if that spaceship encountering it led to deaths and stuff and it's not good, maybe you should tell some people so that they don't go do that in the future. Maybe you should change it. No, they're gonna use it for evil.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:19

Always Paris, it's always evil. But I didn't get any feelings of time travel from this. I'm I think that's probably the part of it that I had to just turn my brain off for because I didn't want to try to do the math of how all of it was working. But if we time travel right now to the future, I will likely see this movie again one time. Not on purpose, but if it's on, I'll probably I'll probably watch.

SPEAKER_08 1:14:41

Oh, I'm absolutely gonna watch this again one day. Maybe when I am entering this realm of hyperfixation again, like a few weeks ago, I was like Kraken. Kraken, what's a kraken? I want to know all about Krakens now. And I just binge watched content on YouTube and Discovery Channel and Discovery Plus and just really just dove into sea creatures. I think I'll save this for another one of those moods.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:03

Yeah, I would totally be into watching this again. It probably will be a few years, so I can possibly forget like the ending or maybe some twists and turns and stuff, but um definitely not watch for someone who hasn't seen it. I feel like I'd enjoy watching it with them and seeing the reaction.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:20

Yeah, so I actually have already watched this again in the future, and I've come back in an attempt to change that, but I could not.

SPEAKER_08 1:15:25

Well, why didn't you remember to forget?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:27

Because I forgot. Wow. Well, I've seen it multiple times and I'll probably see it again. You know, hopefully in the future I'll have kids who are also into sci-fi, and uh, if they're not, then they're just wrong. But fingers crossed that that'll happen and they'll be able to watch this. I just I honestly think that anything Michael Crichton is worthy of a rewatch. Like, how many times have you all seen Jurassic Park?

SPEAKER_08 1:15:47

Zero. What? Okay, only like once or twice, honestly.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:51

Nobody's perfect.

SPEAKER_08 1:15:52

Well, nobody's perfect, but let's see how we all manage to fare with fact or fiction.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:57

Number one, the actors were required to become certified divers prior to shooting.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:02

Fact. Yeah, I believe this to be a fact.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:04

Yeah, I feel that. It only takes a couple days. Fact. It's a fact. They had to become experts. Number two, he might hate snakes on planes, and he might also hate Squid in this film, but Samuel L. Jackson was a champion swimmer in college.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:16

I believe that. Fact. Want to say fact, but he's a a large man. So is Michael Phelps. Maybe a bit too dense for swimming. We'll go fiction just for fun.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:26

So, Ryan, you're right. He is tall, but he's also kind of thick, in a way that isn't necessarily hydrodynamic. But also, I feel like he's always been shaving his head bald, maybe for swimming. So you know what? Let's say fact.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:40

However, in this movie, we did get the stubble on the back of his head before he shaved it clean, and oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:47

I said, Oh, that's where that hairline starts. Well, this is a fact. He said, I love swimming and always have. It's a total blast for me to be able to go down and stay underwater for 45 minutes. And once we were inside the tanks with the helmets and suits, I felt totally at ease. So much so that I think I slept on there one day for about half an hour.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:05

Oh, that feels right.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:06

It is really fun and relaxing. Number three. While the actors were trained well to be divers, nothing prepared them for the irritating effect of chlorine in the tanks, which was a universal complaint on set.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:17

Chlorine in the tanks?

SPEAKER_00 1:17:18

That's right. You gotta filter that water, keep the gross stuff out. The water tanks, not the oxygen tank.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:22

I'm gonna say fact. I'm gonna say fiction because they use saltwater pools. I mean, what kind of person doesn't use a saltwater pool?

SPEAKER_04 1:17:29

I was actually thinking the same exact reasoning, Ryan, so I'm with you.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:32

I'm gonna say fiction. This one's a fiction, but not because of the reason you think. So previous underwater films showed that chlorine was a huge issue when filming in it. Uh so they used a very sophisticated ozonation process rather than chlorine, but they definitely needed filtration. And number four, while many of Crichton's books have been made into movies, he was afraid of Sphere being done poorly after seeing how Waterworld performed at the box office.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:55

If I recall, I feel like Waterworld did amazing. Also, love that movie. I'm saying this is a fiction.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:02

I don't know anything about Waterworld, but that name sounds terrible, so I'm going with the fact.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:08

I also know very little about Waterworld except that it's like a universal hack. So this could be true. Let's say fact.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:15

I am so sad that you haven't seen or heard of Waterworld. So, something about Waterworld, uh, just so you know, uh, it was incredibly expensive to make. They actually filmed it in open water. So the bummer about that is it didn't make that much money back in relation to the money that they had to spend to make it. But this is a fiction, that's not why he was worried. He actually wasn't worried. I made it all up. He was excited to work with Barry Levinson. He said, I became excited when Barry expressed an interest in the project because, as Barry himself says, he likes to make movies in which people talk. That's where his attention goes, and that's where the attention of the movie needs to go, to the characters. I think that happened. That's been fact or fiction.

SPEAKER_08 1:18:53

Well, there you have it, folks. It's Fear from 1998, winner of round two of the co-host clash, has managed to invert the results of the original round, and it has therefore earned four slashes and one hack. Now we've certainly had a lot to talk about here, but that conversation doesn't end here by any means. The spooky season is going strong, and we want to know what you think and how you experience fear. So keep in mind there are a number of ways to reach out to us, starting with our website, hackerslash.live, and on our social media accounts on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter.

SPEAKER_06 1:19:23

And if you're still a little bit bummed that we didn't get to Candyman 2 tonight, please reach out to our Hackerslash Hotline and bother us about it. You can leave us a voicemail at 757-606-0128, or visit hackerslash.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:38

Or if you're currently under the water right now, when you're back on land, you can send us an email to feedback at hackerslash.com.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:44

And if you've enjoyed listening to this episode, consider joining the new Blood Drive and becoming one of our patrons like Katie. You can visit patreon.com slash hacker slash to earn cool perks for as low as $1 a month. But don't forget, if you decide to join our three or five dollar tier during the month of October, you'll receive our fourth anniversary Halloween poster.

SPEAKER_08 1:20:01

We'll see you next time, folks. And remember, follow the Yellow Brick Road. Bye.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:14

Alright, team. This week we have a question from Rob. Rob asks: A source of constant debate between my friends and I is whether or not The Shape of Water is a horror film. What defines a horror movie for each of you?

SPEAKER_05 1:20:25

What?

SPEAKER_00 1:20:26

I mean, what an episode to ask that question. Am I right?

SPEAKER_05 1:20:29

No.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:30

First of all, I just want to take uh full credit and share some of that credit, actually, I should for s for slipping in, you know, something that's not exactly a horror movie. It's a thriller. Thanks, Ryan, I guess, for making that happen. Yeah, actually, it's all Ryan's fault. But anyway, I think what defines a horror movie for me, I I mean, I don't know how you exactly define it, like according to some Wikipedia article or anything, but like I think there has to be that sense of dread or terror or like fear in one of the characters' minds, at least, and you have to like play on that. Okay, but answer the first question. Well, no, it's not a horror movie. Come on. It was a charming love story.

SPEAKER_08 1:21:06

So there is a book that I have called like it's like a book of horror cinema, and there is a preamble at the beginning of it that basically plays with the question of what is horror and what is the difference between like thriller, horror, etc. And I've quoted this on the podcast in the past, but it's this discussion and this concept that a thriller or like a terrifying movie is the promise of pain, but horror is the pain actualized. Horror is the fear actualized. It doesn't just constantly string you along as if it's going to happen. At some point, it just happens. And I think that is a a really solid baseline for me when there's actually some kind of consequence. I think that's why cop thrillers aren't really a huge thing for me because it's always like, oh, is something gonna happen? Sure, there's probably some mistakes where something has happened in the past, and now we're in the pursuit of something not happening again. But in a horror movie, for me, it's like that thing is actually happening throughout the film. That's a very vague answer.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:06

I feel like that's so specific. I like that though. Makes me think of seven.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:10

One of my favorite movies of all time. It really is a good one. I like how you guys are developing this because I can't even think of a way to describe it per se. You just ask this question, I'm thinking, what what makes something a horror movie? And I and I agree with you guys. It's to me, it's something that elicits some sort of fear because I've seen movies, especially recently, where it's been developed a sort of different fear. It's not a Michael Myers coming to get you, it's not someone underneath your bed, it's some sort of realistic fear, which I think is very interesting. Um, but yeah, that's what I would say. Horrors for me. I do not think the shape of water is a horror movie at all. Maybe them having sex was kind of horrific, maybe if I, you know, had to describe it in words, but nah.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:59

Yeah, Rob, I don't know who you're talking to that says that the shape of water is a horror movie. Or wait, what if the plot twist is that Rob is on team, it's a horror movie? I personally don't see how that argument could even have any basis in reality. That is not a horror movie. It's not a great movie. It's a disturbing movie about a fish that eats eggs.

SPEAKER_08 1:23:22

I think he gets his point in horror by being inspired by creature from the black lagoon.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:27

Sure, but nobody fucked the creature from the black lagoon. It wasn't a rom-com. That's very much like a Romeo and Juliet kind of story. For me, horror has to, in some way, evoke fear and like be scary, or even at least like try to be scary. I also need gore. For me, horror also has to have gore. At least one moment where somebody like really just gets it or dies. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 1:23:50

But what about all the like nearly bloodless horror movies we've seen?

SPEAKER_04 1:23:54

I've hacked them all, haven't I? God.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:56

Have you though?

SPEAKER_00 1:23:58

Probably.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:58

Let's go back and check this out. Rewind.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:01

Roll the tapes. Looking looking online, I was coming across like a Reddit thread where they were discussing what they learned in film class that separates the two. Because I think if we if you look at a lot of thrillers, like they have a lot of the same elements as horror movies, but um I think thrillers are are like generally more based in reality in most cases, except for like massive explosions happening that apparently always happen in thrillers. But I I like the idea that horror movies aren't necessarily so grounded in reality that you you like lose that that constant dread that you might feel.

SPEAKER_06 1:24:37

Well, I think you guys know me well enough to know that I've never seen anything called The Shape of Water, and I can't comment on that at all. I just looked at it and was like, is this an alien love story? To which I was met with much uh dismay for could classifying it as such.

SPEAKER_08 1:24:53

I just want to show for the record that Paris did slash the orphanage, which was nearly bloodless.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:58

Nearly bloodless. Remember when that woman fell in the low tide and cracked her leg wide open and you saw the bone sticking out?

SPEAKER_08 1:25:04

I was also thinking about the woman who was hit by a car, but that's fine.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:06

Yeah, see, that's all it takes. Just a little pfft, you're dead.

SPEAKER_06 1:25:10

But see, for me, gore can't be the thing because there's plenty of other movies that are gory that are not horror and where we see injuries and things like that.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:18

No, I guess that's true.

SPEAKER_06 1:25:20

I am a person where I'm I'm more inclined to see thrillers as horror than maybe some other people. Like for me, a lot of especially like psychological thrillers and stuff, those those veer into horror for me. I think the impending doom is one of the things that really matters. And as I say that, I know that I'm often the first one to jump out and be like, this isn't horror. So I don't really know how to say what doesn't make it, but I know you know it when you see it, you know? It's like porn. You feel it. Isn't that the saying? There's a saying like that. No?

SPEAKER_08 1:25:53

Is it okay?

SPEAKER_04 1:25:55

Not that I've heard of.

SPEAKER_08 1:25:56

Diving back into the archives, he did slash host, which is again host.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:01

What the hell is host?

SPEAKER_08 1:26:02

Oh, host? The movie that was made during quarantine last year. Yeah, so good.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:08

Okay, but see, that movie was scary. Was that movie not scary?

SPEAKER_07 1:26:12

Yeah, but bloodless. What makes it scary?

SPEAKER_04 1:26:15

Right. So wait, I'm not scared. No, but see, it's gotta be scary and or gory, but like some combination of attempting to do the both. If you can be could just scory, it's scory. Yeah, it's gotta be scory. Scary and gory, scory.

SPEAKER_06 1:26:29

But you're basically saying what makes a scary movie is it's scary, right? Like you're using the word in the definition.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:35

No, what makes a horror movie is it's scary.

SPEAKER_06 1:26:37

Right, but you know what I mean. Like, what makes it scary for you is the question.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:41

The spooks. It's gotta have the scares to be scary. The ghouls, the goblins.

SPEAKER_08 1:26:48

Well, this went sideways, but that's fine.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:50

Right. I think everyone here sounds like we would classify the shape of water as something other than horror. And I hope that Rob is on the same team as us. He has to be. I I mean you don't know because I submitted this movie to a horror podcast, the movie we're watching, you know, for for today and reviewing, so anything could happen. But uh you're welcome, that's all I can say.

SPEAKER_08 1:27:14

To be clear, it was already uh entered into the database by a third party as being classified as a horror film.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:20

So yeah, I'm I'm you know, I'm busting my own chops here, but in in reality, I I do feel good about Sphere, but I think Shape of Water, while it is also related to water, like Sphere is, um I I just never when I watched it, I never thought about it as being like a horror movie in any way. I always thought it was like a cool, quirky sci-fi that seemed to kind of darken spots.

SPEAKER_06 1:27:41

And that it was This is one of those questions where obviously I can't speak specifically to that movie, but everybody's feelings about horror are very different. And, you know, like Paris says it needs to be scary, but for Mac it's never scary.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:55

So that's you know and Ryan still doesn't know what camp is.

SPEAKER_06 1:28:00

That's right. And camp is definitely not horror for me. So.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:03

Ryan, what does camp mean to you?

SPEAKER_06 1:28:05

It means horror is for everyone. That's what it means.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:09

And everyone is horror.

SPEAKER_06 1:28:11

Some of you are just wrong.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:15

Give me just a minute. I think I have a boyfriend who's moving furniture and banging pots and pans around.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:20

Give me just a minute. I think I have a boyfriend. I think there's a boyfriend in my house.

SPEAKER_06 1:28:27

Oh my god, are they good? I saw those in the store the other day.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:29

I got them from Amazon. They're delicious.

SPEAKER_08 1:28:32

I don't like nuts, but I do love some pickle flavored stuff. Okay, so the dill pickle flavored peanuts in Williamsburg are amazing. These are good. They're a fine snack, but the peanuts is what you want. Yeah, almonds are not as good as peanuts, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:28:49

The Virginia's on again.

SPEAKER_08 1:28:51

Yeah, but even the dill on those peanuts is just way better. That's what she said. That's disgusting.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:57

You already said you don't like nuts, but pickle flavor stuff.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:01

Let me just little nutsack here.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:04

Alright, lots of silence.

SPEAKER_06 1:29:08

Hash. Like you gotta be high to be doing a hack and a slash. Or a shack.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:13

Shack.

SPEAKER_06 1:29:14

You gotta be shacking up to do a hack or a slash and a slash.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:17

Wasn't there like a shank at one point that was disconditioned?

SPEAKER_08 1:29:20

There was by one person who will remain unnamed. 86 to shank.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:23

That's dumb.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:24

Okay, edit me out. No shank. Also, I would like to just take a brief moment to acknowledge one of our newest patrons as part of our blue blue nud drive. Nope.

SPEAKER_08 1:29:36

Blue what? So many nuts in my mouth.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:45

Are they blue nuds?

SPEAKER_07 1:29:46

It's like little nut bits.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:48

Salty. That's disgusting. The blue nud drive.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:52

Even the concept, really. Duckle Ho slash.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:58

Michael Crichton was my favorite like writer/slash author. What do you call them? Novelist book? We don't even know who he is. He writes books.

SPEAKER_08 1:30:08

Writer is fine. Author? Titanic, I think, is at least interesting enough. Titanic, I think, in retrospect, is a little bit too long. I was considering watching Titanic recently and then remembered how many VHSs it was. Yeah. Nah.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:23

I didn't even know that was a thing until mom brought that home and I was like, why is it two? And she's like, because it's long. I'll be honest, the disappointment I found out when I started watching Squid Game and realized there's no squids involved, I was like, okay, fine, I'll still watch it, but I thought you're about to ruin it.

SPEAKER_06 1:30:37

But imagine if any got hurt, right? You'd be so sad. So it's a good thing. Perhaps.

SPEAKER_08 1:30:44

Okay, well, sometimes you just have to let it be a setting because, darling, it's better. Downwards wetter. Take it from me.

SPEAKER_06 1:30:52

Get the heck out of here.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:54

Where do we go from there, Rojas?

SPEAKER_06 1:30:56

She's not even drinking a beer. It's a Coke.

SPEAKER_08 1:31:01

This October, the spooky season with Hackerslash, subtitle, Learn Everything About Paris every episode.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:08

So true. It is. It is very true.

SPEAKER_08 1:31:11

Basically, if you listen to every episode of this month, you will know the answer to all of Paris' security questions. Oh no.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:23

Yeah, I think I'm sh I'm certain we're on the same page.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:26

Alexis also knows. As she motions.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:29

Wait, that pantomime makes me think we're not on the same page, so we shall see. Oh. Uh-oh. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:36

More than one.

SPEAKER_08 1:31:39

Anything that creates a belief that you have to pee on someone to get the sting to stop burning. I'm not. I'm not down for that existence.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:48

That is quite the narrative.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:51

I'm gonna stop.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:52

Bless you, baby. Stop it. Everybody gets one. No, that's enough.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:57

We always thank you. I didn't ask you to bless me the first time. You're never gonna use the fishy? I don't like fishy. Fishy was too on the nose.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:07

Fair. Valid. It's low-hanging fruit.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:11

There's some fishy kills that happen here.

SPEAKER_08 1:32:15

You know, it's funny. Ryan recently made some squid eggs. That's not what I made at all. Could work though. Hate you. Wasn't it a testicle? S. Don't you dare, madam. These they're eggs.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:28

I would never make a testicle.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:32

I was kind of teased and tantalized by the tentacles.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:35

Weren't we all? What's that quote about porn?

SPEAKER_06 1:32:38

Rule 34.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:39

Chris, you know this.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:40

I just didn't. I'm surprised Ryan said it. It's been randomly coming up in life lately. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:49

I think one of the reasons it's hard to watch the I've watched it a bunch of times just to fulfill your need of knowing that.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:58

Thank you for satisfying me.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:59

Always aims to please, honestly.

SPEAKER_08 1:33:01

It gets creepy over here sometimes. It does, especially when they play Fletsi.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:05

She's so she's too far away, I can't reach her.

SPEAKER_06 1:33:07

That's my thigh.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:09

Even better.

SPEAKER_06 1:33:10

Okay. Sorry. What I don't can I can you under explain to me what we're talking about? I know this doesn't matter. In the tanks.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:21

Yeah. You have to filter that water.

SPEAKER_06 1:33:22

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:23

Because it's not it's not the ocean, right?

SPEAKER_06 1:33:25

Right. What what was the issue that the chlorine was causing? Is my own.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:27

It burns your skin. Zero skin. Oh, being in the chlorine for so long. Okay, cool. Great. Thanks. Okay.