187: Pilgrim (2019)

SPEAKER_03 0:04

You are a burden to exist in this world. Yeah, I like that. Greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hack or Slash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. Do we just murder? As a family? If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack. A total joke, waste of time, or a slash.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

Totally killer, pun intended.

SPEAKER_03 0:32

We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, we're rating these movies with the perspective we've gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast. This week I'm joined by the Superfly Space Guy Mac.

SPEAKER_01 0:45

It's just Thanksgiving.

SPEAKER_03 0:46

The gore lover Alexis, hey everyone, and the Scream Queen Paris.

SPEAKER_02 0:51

I'm fine.

SPEAKER_03 0:52

This week we're commemorating Thanksgiving by checking out a seasonal Blumhouse Helm film currently streaming on Hulu. Before we break the wishbone though, we have some follow-up.

SPEAKER_02 1:01

We recently reviewed James Wan's latest release, Malignant. Now, it was a deep, dark exploration of camp on that episode, and some of us loved it, some of us left the episode still unsatisfied. But we wanted to hear what our listeners thought. And I'm actually personally surprised by the results myself. 14% of our voters gave it a hack and 86% gave it a slash, which is much less divisive than I was expecting.

SPEAKER_03 1:29

Oh yeah, that sounds like an overwhelming majority loved it. And that just doesn't track with what I generally heard from other people. I feel like I've met a lot of people who are like, everybody is hit or miss on it, but I personally loved it, so maybe are we in an echo chamber?

SPEAKER_02 1:43

Maybe. It wasn't a particularly small sample size either. We have a couple comments from our listeners. MJ said, easily the best horror release of 2021 for me. This film showed me what could happen if the absurd campy horror of the 70s and 80s meshed together with the technical brilliance of modern horror. It's stylish, gruesome, and extremely bonkers, and I'm hoping this will remind other modern horror directors that while it's great to make horror that says something about the human condition, it's also great to make absolutely insane horror that's shallow yet entertaining as well. Slash, slash, slash.

SPEAKER_03 2:14

Shallow yet entertaining. What a great way to summarize a lot of these movies.

SPEAKER_02 2:18

What did you call me?

SPEAKER_03 2:19

A good time.

SPEAKER_02 2:20

We have another comment from our listener Damien, who said, Okay, so I don't feel like it was quite as campy as I was led to believe from the pre-spoiler talk, but it was definitely an enjoyable movie. Me and my roommate literally called the twist pretty early on, but I definitely enjoyed the whole wild ride. The action-y stuff was definitely a bit much, and like usual, James Wand, the cops were not necessary.

SPEAKER_01 2:40

As in most horror movies, they're just there to uh pad the body count.

SPEAKER_03 2:43

It's interesting to hear that it wasn't as campy as we may have led them to believe. I don't know. I feel like this that movie reeked of camp. So I feel like uh maybe you know, like when you're doing color calibration on a monitor, you can like buy a little device. Maybe we all need to have like our camp detector like calibrated.

SPEAKER_02 3:03

To be honest, when I read this comment, I thought to myself, because I'd listen to our episode as well. I think we just fixated a lot on the camp and maybe emphasized it a bit too much because when you watch the movie, the camp is almost a slow burn. It's not like I don't know, it's not like Adam's family values from the top to the bottom.

SPEAKER_03 3:20

I don't know, man. We had those little alien arms poking out from behind a curtain. It was wild from the very beginning. Dramatic hospital on the cliff.

SPEAKER_02 3:29

And the way that doctor held that sniper rifle.

SPEAKER_03 3:31

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 3:31

Within like the first two minutes.

SPEAKER_03 3:33

Yes. You can't tell me that movie's not camp.

SPEAKER_02 3:35

Anyway, we have somebody else joining our camp this week, and it's one of our newest patrons, Alex Poet. Alex, thank you so much for your support. I look forward to reading one of your comments on a future episode. And that's our follow-up.

SPEAKER_03 3:48

Well, in past years we've commemorated Thanksgiving by checking out Zombie Hordes in Malls, a homicidal gang terrorizing a college student, and even a supernatural turkey. This year, though, we're looking at a film that's part of Blumhouse's Into the Dark television series. Now, Into the Dark is a horror anthology on Hulu that features two twelve episode long seasons of feature-length films. This week, we're looking specifically at season two, episode two, which focuses on what many feel is the true spirit of Thanksgiving. A time of expressing gratitude for all you have and all you love. To capture that spirit in this film, a woman hires a pair of Thanksgiving reenactors to provide an authentic dinner experience for her loved ones. But things grow increasingly sinister, though, when their guests refuse to break character. This week we're talking about the 2019 film Pilgrim. Now, what were you all expecting going into this?

SPEAKER_02 4:40

Well, listen, when I heard that it was called Pilgrim, my first thought was like crazy pilgrim bitch, very like 1800s, whatever years the pilgrims happened. I don't know history or time. But then I also was like, maybe it's sci-fi because they love the word pilgrimage. And you know we're in a dark place when I'm hoping it's sci-fi.

SPEAKER_04 4:59

So I expected something very campy, similar to Thanksgiving, but somehow involving pilgrims. And I feel like now in this day and age, pilgrims, pilgrimage, like there's a lot of sometimes bad connotations, and like I knew this was a Hulu original, so I figured that they would actually probably bring that out instead of it being more on the cheesy side.

SPEAKER_03 5:24

I didn't venture too far in my expectations, I will admit. I can get down with seasonal horror. Christie was a good movie, Blood Rage was an interesting and unique time, but Thanksgiving really soured and turned me off of the whole idea of Thanksgiving horror movies. So looking at this, I expected it to be technically proficient because Blumhouse. Sure. And I really loved the poster, but I didn't have high hopes or expectations. I really thought this might try to walk the line of camp, but stay on the side of why the hell are we here? Why did we make this? And I was pleasantly surprised that when I was watching this movie, I ended up feeling a little bit more favorable towards it the longer it went on. Mainly because I I recognized two people, one from My Bloody Valentine and Final Destination, and the other from Hellfest, who allowed me to have some kind of like grounding in this movie of like, okay, at least we have some maybe semi-competent people in here. I found that I wasn't really feeling it in the very beginning of things, but the more it leaned into the campiness that I slightly anticipated, the better I found it to be.

SPEAKER_01 6:40

I'm glad you were able to sum up your feelings because I had no idea what to expect, like going into this. I didn't even I like read the first three words of the blurb and I said no, just hit play. So no expectations. But going into it, I mostly just felt pretty much the entire movie like, what the hell? That's that was my whole feeling the entire time. Like I wasn't, you know, confused about what was happening on screen, but like what was happening on screen and the way it was happening was just like I had no idea what was in store. It was all just kind of like, dang, this is not what I was expecting. I don't know what I was expecting, but it wasn't this.

SPEAKER_02 7:18

Yeah, I feel like the majority of my feelings during this movie were like frustrated and also like confused, because the setup for this movie is a real stretch. They really ask you to suspend your disbelief. They they want you to check it at the door and say, hey, it's totally normal for you to invite house guests that surprise our staying for days, and also, hey neighbor, I got a house guest for you to now host, and that's just gonna be something you deal with now. Uh, there were a lot of times where there was a singular character who was like, What the fuck is going on? And I was very much relating to that character.

SPEAKER_04 7:53

The best way I can describe how I felt was trippy because of the camera movements, because of the vibes that I was getting. I just wasn't sure how I should feel, but it was a very disoriented feeling. And I think because maybe I had certain expectations and some of them were proven right, but maybe it was just I don't know. To me, this movie was just put together in a weird fashion.

SPEAKER_01 8:19

It was, and you know, that's one of the things that actually disappointed me was I was really kind of disappointed that a movie could feel simultaneously slow and rushed all at the same time. And it's kind of like a topsy-turvy feeling because you feel like this is dragging, but at the same time, like you're just speeding through stuff. Like there's, you know, maybe that that goes back to that word we used earlier where it just feels kind of shallow, but I just feel like, you know, it's I was waiting for things to happen, but as things happened, it felt like we just wasted no time with them.

SPEAKER_02 8:50

That's interesting, Mac. I felt like when I started this movie, it was a tight 120 and I was here for it. I think it felt a little longer than that tight 120, uh, which I don't think I was particularly disappointed by. I was certainly surprised at almost every turn as as to the direction the movie takes. At one point I was getting like handmaid's tale vibes. I was like, is this how the handmaid's tale started? I think the biggest surprise for me though is who ended up being my favorite character in this movie.

SPEAKER_04 9:16

I can't I can't wait to hear it. What surprised me was how grounded this movie was in our times right now. Just with the technology, you know, they're having this family group chat, and the way people interacted with other people, like talking about social media and all of that, it really surprised me how involved I was in the story because of that, because I felt like it was very present and for the moment.

SPEAKER_03 9:45

That's true. I think most films will do one of two things. So either shy away from the mention of social media or certain technology because they don't want to date the movie, but then others lean very hard into it to the point where it makes it feel disconnected, it makes it feel like it's totally lost in any semblance of reality. It gets really, really goofy in some points, but I think obviously overhearing your neighbors talking shit about someone who tries so hard on social media to make their life seem together and real. I don't know any people like that. I don't think I know people directly who try to paint that picture on social media, and I don't think I know people who like pay that much attention to those people's social media, but I've heard it's a real thing.

SPEAKER_04 10:33

Oh, it's totally a thing for people to do that. I don't think we are because we're pretty chill humans, but I feel like people who are very anxious and you know care about what people think a lot are like that.

SPEAKER_01 10:45

I think it's a it's a universal thing now. It it's just a general fear of missing out that many people share. But I I think what's worse is by this point, like the curtain has been pulled back. Like everyone knows that like social media is fake, like you show the best parts of your life. Everyone knows it, but it still doesn't stop them from from that fear of missing out or from or from envy or jealousy because we're just human beings and sometimes you're just affected by that kind of stuff. But I think like we all know that it's that's not real life. I mean, it's someone's real life, but it's like one minute of it.

SPEAKER_02 11:18

I gotta say, I was also very surprised by how well this was filmed. And Chris, I think I missed the Blumhouse memo because I actually wrote it down. I was like, this is filmed really well.

SPEAKER_03 11:29

It is filmed really well, and that's the interesting thing because I was simultaneously surprised by how much better it was than I expected, while also being severely disappointed and how much it was missing the mark for me in other areas. So it's almost like I would hit this high of like, okay, some of this is actually hilarious. Hell yeah, I love Cody as a character. And then they just do this weird thing where they like have very odd pushes or zooms in on people like screaming or laughing, and then it just looks weird, it feels out of place, not like in an intentional artistic I'm trying to make you an easy kind of way. It just it it felt like someone had gotten it 75% of the way there, and they botched the last 25%. And I'm not saying that in terms of runtime, I'm saying saying that throughout the whole film, in terms of its quality, aesthetically, it looks good. Great split diopter shots, yeah, really excellent cinematography in most places. But I think the biggest disappointment for me is that this movie is just Saw without the traps. The core element of Saw, Cherish Your Life without the actual vehicle that makes people love Saw. So it's like a hollow shell of what another franchise is, and that was a huge disappointment for me. The antagonists have the same agenda, similar agenda, similar.

SPEAKER_01 12:59

And I I think that's what kind of removed any fear from the movie for me, because you you do get that vibe from from the antagonist, but like even the shots that you mentioned where you get that like instant replay effect or you get that close-up of someone laughing maniacally, it feels kind of cartoonish. So even when the bad guy's being the bad guy, you I kind of laugh at him a little bit, but then their reasons for being the bad guy are utterly ridiculous and don't make any logical sense. And maybe that's how some antagonists are. They just they just do bad stuff because they want to do bad stuff and they don't have to make sense, but uh it it didn't cause any fear in my heart.

SPEAKER_04 13:37

Yeah, and my notes I put gross, but not scary at all.

SPEAKER_02 13:41

Yeah, this movie was not scary. Uh I will say there's one element of this movie that gets very diddly that I found to be quite unsettling, and it escalated in ways that I was like, can we stop now or is this where we're going? What's happening here? Uh, and that was mildly scary.

SPEAKER_03 13:54

I I hear what you're talking about, and there is a point that you text me and I was like, oh, I wonder if you gotten to this certain point yet, and we both text each other this realization at the same time. But this movie isn't the least bit frightening, but I think it's one of those that isn't trying to dwell in this space of fear. And I think that's where I'm really troubled. I think it's because I can't tell what the exact tone is. A lot of it feels campy in the third act, which feels like just sheer pure entertainment value, which I get. Some of it in the beginning, or some in there's some other moments where it feels like it's trying to be a little bit more serious, but at no point does it feel like it's legitimately trying to creep you out. It's more like it's just trying to string you along, like make you go along for the ride. But I don't think it ever paints a compelling enough picture to make me interested in seeing where that ride goes. It's very it's a really bizarre feeling. I know that sounds a lot more negative than I than I mean for it to be. This movie is just such a mixed bag. And again, I think it all stems from the fact that even as it was going on, I have never seen pilgrims invited as house guests to stay and hang out with a family and see how things go. I have never seen the things that happen on paper happen in this movie, but it did not feel original because again, it's all minus the traps. The agenda is there, the outline is there. I don't know. It's weird to say that a movie about homicidal pilgrim pilgrims isn't original, but here we are.

SPEAKER_01 15:35

I I'm gonna still give it some points because of that. It's not fully original, but I'm gonna give it some points because being able to theme something to a holiday successfully, you know, you get a little bit of credit because everyone goes for Christmas, everything's Christmas, every action movie like franchise has to have like a Christmas special or something. And so that's the big one everyone goes for. Maybe maybe Easter now and then, but Thanksgiving is a kind of a rarer one, and and not that rare, it's it's not uncommon, but it's not the target for holiday movies. I'll give them some credit for having a protagonist who's willing to take a crap all over Thanksgiving throughout the movie as well at the same time, so good for her. But um, yeah, I mean it's not like wholly original, but it's it's it's not something I've seen on screen at all.

SPEAKER_04 16:19

Chris, um, I see where you're coming from. I didn't understand or see it, I guess, at first when you're talking about the Saw connection to this, so I see where you're coming from. But I agree with you, Mac. I thought it was pretty original. You know, I think it's awesome that they kind of expose this gruesome history of Thanksgiving. And although they don't give you all the historical facts, you know, I wasn't looking for that. But it's Thanksgiving. It really is. Not intended for the movie purposes, but in general.

SPEAKER_03 16:50

One would venture to say they didn't actually not unearth any dark history about Thanksgiving. It was just homicidal people dressed up in pilgrim outfits. It was just the vibes.

SPEAKER_01 17:01

Honestly, they kind of personified the false things that we believe about Thanksgiving. They were there like trying to tie back to the good, happy feeling that we all have about it without any kind of reference to the history of it. And one character makes a few like statements about it, but in general, our antagonists don't really care about being historically accurate.

SPEAKER_02 17:23

Yes, Mac. I did think when the character that you're referring to made those comments that that was going to be the direction that this went to, which I think would have been very original on its own. But what they ended up doing, there's definitely original elements for sure. There's a couple kills where I was like, oh, never seen that before. Don't know if I ever need to see it again, but uh I think there's some points to be given out here. But Chris, you're right, it does it does remind me now that you've pointed it out of like the gist of a lot of other movies that we've seen. And also just like the essence is familiar.

SPEAKER_03 17:59

It's also very culty. Pilgrim cults. Who would have seen it coming?

SPEAKER_02 18:04

Like the village or like the wrong turn reboot.

SPEAKER_03 18:07

Fear Street 1666.

SPEAKER_01 18:10

Oh, and the and the ending ties into so many of those other kind of culty movies as well. You know, like the way in which it ends, the the bad thing that happens at the very end, um, that their characters are subjected to, it's like wrong turn all over again in kind of a way. But it's also like a little bit of silence of the lambs in a way, and it's also a little bit of something else, in a way, and it's just like yeah, I mean, like, the ending is its own thing, but at the same time, you could tie that back easily. Honestly, it reminded me of an episode of South Park. So the originality points it had up until the end, it kind of lost for me in the end. I I am curious, so part of this this whole thing is like that these characters are introduced as having been contacted online, and our inten you know, our protagonist rather can't figure out where. And uh I'm wondering if it's an age thing. Were they found on Craigslist and then our protagonist just doesn't use Craigslist? The mom was exclusively on Facebook, so they probably weren't even looking there.

SPEAKER_03 19:07

It was probably just a group, like a real weird group, or maybe like a Facebook marketplace listing.

SPEAKER_04 19:12

Sounds more in tune to today's date. It was on a Facebook Marketplace for sure. So after watching The Final Girls, now I'm starting to watch the movie all the way through past credits, everything. So I'm not sure. Had anyone seen anything post credits? This time, yes. Okay, perfect.

SPEAKER_01 19:34

Okay, I didn't. The video stopped for me.

SPEAKER_04 19:36

Where'd you watch it on?

SPEAKER_02 19:37

Hulu. Yeah, I think Hulu was trying to get me onto something else. Yes, that's what happened to me. It goes up next.

SPEAKER_04 19:42

Nope, that's not what happened for me. But Chris, I wonder to me, that made the movie better and the ending better, seeing that, even though essentially it wasn't really part of the movie per se. But I was like, oh, this is connecting to something that we were told in the beginning of the movie, which I thought was a comedic element that turned out to be something a little bit more vicious, and I kind of like the ending, and I like the movie more because of that.

SPEAKER_03 20:10

I can't say that it hit the same way for me. I can't say that one bit. I I'm glad it did that for you. That's fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 20:19

I wish I had seen this because I feel like the ending left a lot to be desired, and anything that could be added to it, I think would be a benefit. It felt the ending was kind of abrupt. Like the climax, obviously, yeah, all of that happened. It was kind of just chaos. But the way it ended, I was like, oh, really? Uh okay, I guess I'll move on with my life.

SPEAKER_03 20:39

It was very abrupt, Paris. I think I struggled because I was ready for it to be over, so I didn't mind the abruptness. And I don't say that in like, wow, this is such a burden, can this thing end already? I felt like the more we got into that third act, the better I felt the pacing was moving. So I felt like, okay, yeah, this feels like a good conclusion point. I'm I'm I'm done here. We've wiped out enough of the shenanigans that are going on here. Uh, there's been a lot of blood, a lot more blood in different ways that I wasn't really expecting. Uh definitely seen some some bodies in some states that I wasn't anticipating going into this, but it's Thanksgiving. Maybe I should have expected it. But I think the ending was really redemptive for what I felt the rest of the movie kind of lacked. But we'll see how all these feelings shake out in our ratings now. Before we get there, Alexis, how many people died in this film?

SPEAKER_04 21:36

We had a total of 15 deaths in this movie. And what about the animal report? There is one sad death in this movie that you see, a little gruesome, but it's okay.

SPEAKER_01 21:48

Well, I think going into a Thanksgiving movie, everyone expects some sort of avian death.

SPEAKER_04 21:52

Really? That's a oh well, because of a turkey. I just sorry, I was thinking of flying. Anything that flew, I forgot. Don't fly.

SPEAKER_03 22:00

Do turkeys fly?

SPEAKER_01 22:01

I don't know. We'll we'll talk about it later. No one knows for sure.

SPEAKER_03 22:05

Well, let's go ahead and get into these ratings then Pilgrim from 2019. Was it a hack or a slash?

SPEAKER_01 22:10

Well, I'll just jump in and say it's a hack for me using a turkey carving knife. You know, this this to me proves Ryan's previous statement that holiday horror movies are generally just bad. I watched this with my wife and we finished and she was like, man, that was a bad movie. So I'm glad like I inside I was trying to figure out how I felt. Like, do I give it credit for this and that or do I not? But I think it made some really strange choices in editing that truly bothered me. Um, it it did feel shallow, and I know it's only a tight 120, but we got 25%, you know, towards an antagonist that you might care about and might like believe some of their some of their opinions on how people should live their lives, but like they just immediately threw it all away, and I think that was a wasted opportunity. Um, so no, I just I don't know. I don't I don't think it's a good movie, and I I think it just like feels I'm glad to know that it's part of a series. I didn't realize there was like 12 parts or whatever, I just thought it was a one-off. Um, so thank you for that context.

SPEAKER_03 23:13

Well, it it is a one-off, it's an anthology, so it's not connected to anything else.

SPEAKER_01 23:17

Right, but it makes me feel better to know that they spent time and money and effort on a bigger picture, which is the like the whole like set of them. Like, oh, we need to put out like you know, a dozen different things versus like this was someone's like sole goal was to just make this movie. I mean, it was somebody's probably, but like I feel a little bit better about the fact that like at least they were spreading it out across a couple movies. But I just don't I don't think it was good. I don't think like the camp that we got seemed really out of place for the rest of the movie, um, which was strange. I mean, it was funny, like you would laugh at it for portraying it, but I just didn't find it really that enjoyable.

SPEAKER_04 23:50

Interesting. So the campiness to me just felt disjointed because I was torn between okay, am I supposed to laugh, but everything's serious? But somehow I thought that was entertaining for me trying to figure it out. But maybe because I was hungover watching this, you know, I wasn't thinking too deep, you know. But I thought it was visually entertaining as well. I thought the acting was good. Now I'm not saying this is the best movie ever. Probably a lot of people will hack it tonight. Um I might be the only slash, but I didn't think it was a total joke or a waste of time. I just think just depends on what you're expecting in this movie and what you're looking for. Also, because this is in the lineup, you know I love holiday-themed horror, and you will keep getting it. So I am so sorry. But this is a slash for me.

SPEAKER_02 24:41

Alexis, I think this is a prime example of how you are slash until proven hack. Um, and as we know, that's not me at all. Uh, when I started this movie, there's actually like a reference to another Hulu movie called Puka. Like in the child's room, there's like a Puka doll. Puka, if you haven't seen it, is a garbage movie about like some like stuffed animal that comes to life on around the holidays.

SPEAKER_03 25:04

It's in this series.

SPEAKER_02 25:05

I was wondering if that was the case. Uh, and when I saw that, I was like, that's a big red flag. That's Hulu referencing its own trash within trash. This movie is really well filmed, which was surprising to me because it was so bad. Uh, it was like taking a really beautiful picture of a piece of garbage with like a shallow depth of field and like a really like long exposure, and it was like really nicely cared for, and like a lot of like love was put into it. But like the acting in this movie was not good, the script was garbage, um, the concept was kind of promising. Like, I could see this happening where this isn't a total hack, but the setup was so bad. Like, at one point, there's three women like talking about the exact setup of this movie, and it doesn't make a damn bit of sense. You're really asked to think that nobody has any power against this one mom in the neighborhood who's making these choices, taking people's phones and whatnot. Um, but I will say towards the end, I did start to like some of the things because I was like, this movie is so ridiculous. I mean, it's a it's a holiday-themed horror movie. What can you expect? Um, but ultimately this movie is a total joke and a waste of my time. So it's a hack.

SPEAKER_03 26:15

So I know I've been pretty rough on this movie so far, but let me just say that there is a lot of good in it. I think obviously I'm one to enjoy holiday horror movies. I really enjoyed Krampus, love the brat Black Christmas movies. There are a lot of cheesy Christmas 80s slashers that I'm a really big fan of. So it doesn't take much for me to be able to opt into it. There are a lot of things in this movie that are slash worthy. So Rain Edwards is Cody. She was in Hellfest. Absolutely love this woman. The gore and the level of camp we get at the end in that third act was slash worthy. But this movie just is built on so much potential and it squanders a lot of that potential on its way to a fun thrill ride of a of an ending. And I think the work that they put into their antagonist doesn't really pay off when the whole journey is executed the way that it is. I think the acting aside from those two women left much to be desired. Actress actually, the kid who played Tate is cute, he's fine. This movie's a swing and a miss, and it's more missed than uh actual, like good, solid contact. So for that, it's getting a hack. And with that, Pilgrim from 2019 has earned three hacks and one slash from the turkey carving knife for Alexis. Now, obviously, you can find this movie, chillin' on Hulu. Go check it out, see for yourself, then join us in the second half so we can see whose side you're on. See you in a bit.

SPEAKER_00 27:57

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SPEAKER_03 28:53

Welcome back, folks. You are now entering the spoiler zone for Pilgrim from 2019, which has earned three hacks and one slash. Now we have a lot to get to here, but before we get into the specifics of this Thanksgiving treat, we have the matter of gore to attend to. Alexis, what's the gore score for this movie?

SPEAKER_04 29:10

So, Chris, before the spoiler break, you were talking about that third act, and that's where you get a lot of this gore. And a lot of, you know, projectile stuff coming out of mouths. Um, I'm sure I know it's blood. Well looked like it just looked like water, but there's a lot that happens in that third act. So I said it was medium, because to me, that if you just take that part, it's it's a pretty decent amount. Enough to like make someone's stomach upset, make someone cringe. I'm sure you were cringing too, Chris, right? No, not really. Even when the little boy was drawing up.

SPEAKER_03 29:43

No, I mean it's unpleasant to look at, but again, you guys think that I have this like I need to throw up when I see someone throw up on it. I don't like looking at it, but I'm okay.

SPEAKER_02 29:53

Clam chowder mixed with orange juice.

SPEAKER_03 29:55

Okay, the idea of that psychologically makes me imagine it in my head, therefore I do kind of want to puke. Hearing that shit, sure. Not the retching sounds, but like just knowing what the ingredients are, disgusting. Seeing this little kid just like spit some stuff up, whatever.

SPEAKER_01 30:11

I'm surprised you're grading this on a medium because right before the blood puking starts, you get roasted rib cage. And that was pretty that's pretty gross.

SPEAKER_04 30:21

I guess I'm thinking of the action of gore, like how bloody are things. I mean, yeah, you got the crow that looks pretty gross. I don't know, maybe I just don't think cannibalism is that gory.

SPEAKER_01 30:32

But the the head and the plate like definitely look like you know, those like party tricks where someone has like a table with a hole cut out. Oh, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 30:39

It's worse when you start watching the post-credit scenes and you see the bloopers of him just smiling and nodding.

SPEAKER_01 30:45

Yeah, it's obvious. That's exactly what it was was the table with a hole cut out, and it was it just makes it even sillier. So I I I now I can appreciate your medium score.

SPEAKER_04 30:52

Yeah, here you go. Just a little bit. I it just that dining room scene is kind of crazy. You know, they you get from being poisoned to everyone dying in that room, and then you get some action with Ethan and Patience's death. So I'm interested to see what you guys are going to say for your favorite death.

SPEAKER_03 31:12

Okay, so mine is Shane. I get it. Yeah, roasted rib cage. Obviously, he looks like Anakin Skywalker on Mustafar after he lost the high ground, but it wasn't even his head on the platter or his ribcage being served up and eaten. It was actually for me his his death of falling down the camera looking from like a POV shot, hatchet to the camera with blood on the screen or red on the screen. I loved that. I loved the uh changing up of angles that we got there.

SPEAKER_02 31:45

Chris, I love that you loved that because that frees up me to go for my favorite kill, which was patience. Which time that she died, do you ask? Who's to say? When she initially got stabbed through the hand and deep into the brain with that like little ice pick or whatever that was, and she just goes, I'm fine. I actually cracked up because I was like, but you are not fine. And then she like pulls it out and is somehow still alive, which does not make a damn bit of sense to me. We need to call a doctor and find out if what the medical truth of that is. Uh and then later we get this great scene where she's like vomiting blood onto a cabinet that a child is inside while technomusic blasts for no reason. Oh, she also got beaten in the face with that one head of the dad, and it was like nothing could take her down.

SPEAKER_01 32:29

And I just thought that she was like really putting up a great fight. Well, I'm glad that my kill wasn't taken, and it was an earlier one, but it was the chonky pilgrim who got killed by the family, you know, because as we've said before, the family who slays together stays together. And they they had that moment, you know, that Chris quoted in the intro, but I like that they were just like, get all the weapons, you know, find something. But they had that great sequence which was completely out of place for the rest of the movie, but it was like a Sam Raimi moment where they focuses in on their hands, like grabbing a weapon and getting ready to fight. And I always love that. Like Guy Richie does it a ton as well, and I just that style of like focus on the hand, grabbing a thing really quick, and then coming back, a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_03 33:09

I I think it was very dramatic.

SPEAKER_01 33:11

It was very camp.

SPEAKER_02 33:12

I wrote that part down. I said, Well, they're doing it. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 33:15

I feel like, yes, that third act, a lot of the deaths are camp, especially this mass carnage of the pilgrims, which I do appreciate because I was not expecting that twist at all. My favorite death is an almost death, and that's the mom in this movie. Stepmom, mom, Anna. Right when Ethan is about to slice her throat, and he goes, Fetch me a large bowl to catch the blood, which is referential, I feel like, when I was thinking about it to our conversation on what's a vessel to throw up in. So I was like, Oh, this is that Tupperware that people are throwing up in. That's what they're using to catch the blood.

SPEAKER_02 33:53

The puke bowl.

SPEAKER_04 33:54

Well, it's a good thing you were not puking up blood from eating Jerusalem cherries. I agree with that. And to me, that was my favorite visual was as cheesy as it might be, which goes along with this movie, is when they're doing that vomit. And it just was to me funny. I like the practical effects that they're using for this, and it's utterly ridiculous, but the look of it, I mean, very liquidy. I would not know what vomiting blood like that looks like, but I did like the practical effects for that. Viscous.

SPEAKER_02 34:28

Yeah, no, I was gonna say viscous. This is the first time I'm realizing he was saying Jerusalem cherries because every time they said it, I thought they were saying true summer cherries. And I was like, what the fuck is that? That makes a lot more sense.

SPEAKER_03 34:40

I'm glad you enjoyed the projectile vomiting of blood and gore as your visual. I totally respect that. And again, there's a lot in this movie that's done really, really well visually, but my favorite was really the little silly thing, and it's the little rainbow turkey animation we get to have things kick off in the very beginning, doesn't quite top that. You really just started at the top with that little rainbow turkey.

SPEAKER_01 35:07

Yeah, I struggled on this question, so I can tell you what I didn't like, and what I didn't like was the green tint that we get a ton throughout the movie. I hate that element in movies. Ooh. And it bothers me. And I don't know if anyone else caught it, but I think opening up into the movie, we see it, and it just like bothered me. In terms of things I liked, I don't I don't know if there's anything I could pick out. Like, aside from that, and aside from some of the editing choices they made, the movie does look pretty good, like like you've mentioned, Chris, cinematography considered, like it it looks pretty good. Some of the choices that they made in editing, though, truly bother me. They have a good couple like shots where they do things like, you know, when they focused on the hands grabbing the weapons, that was cool. When they focused on slicing the dad's hand as he fell out the window, like that was a great shot as well. I honestly wish the camera had followed him all the way down to the ground. That would have been so cool if they had been able to make that happen. But there is something that visually bugs me, and it's the costumes of the pilgrims. Because and this is so silly. If they're trying to be accurate, pilgrims didn't really wear black and white. It was mostly earth tones. That was the thing that they would wear back then. And so it's just like you guys really didn't commit. So it mostly bothers me about the characters, not the filmmakers.

SPEAKER_03 36:17

Mac, that was all they had at Party City.

SPEAKER_02 36:19

Exactly. Those like Party City gold square buckles on the shoes that they like hot glued on.

SPEAKER_03 36:24

He stole it from the leprechaun guy. It's a whole thing.

SPEAKER_01 36:27

Yeah. Buckles also weren't in vogue uh during the pilgrim's time either, not quite yet. So that's also another indicator this is just a costume, like you mentioned, that they bought from Party City.

SPEAKER_04 36:36

So you're telling me those hats that I made when I was like in kindergarten and first grade are not actual replicas. The thing is, this is still probably going on in schools, so maybe someone should educate others.

SPEAKER_02 36:48

Circling back to hot glue, did anybody else notice the extreme close-up of the Jerusalem cherries that were clearly all glued together? I said, why do an extreme close-up if you didn't put the work into the prop? Um, but I do have some good visuals to talk about. I think the one that will stay with me most of all is patience churning butter, but it's blood. Uh I grew up mostly in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, amongst the Amish. And while that kill really made no sense at all, like what was in there, not really sure. Seeing like a colonial woman churning blood in a churn was fun, and I'll think of that fondly for days to come.

SPEAKER_03 37:28

It's not cranberry sauce.

SPEAKER_02 37:30

Yeah. Uh there was also one other visual. As the backyard became more and more pilgrimy, as the shed was erected and more things were built. I noticed that they like put leaves and like reeds into the pool, like to make it look more like, I don't know, the natural pond. And I thought that that was hilarious. And also looked kind of good. Like you could make your pool a little bit spicier if you added some natural elements.

SPEAKER_01 37:57

That's they they definitely got like Martha Stewart's latest magazine before they went over there to uh to start decorating. I I do have to ask the pairs, could you believe it's not bloodter?

SPEAKER_02 38:06

Oh my god, Mac. I knew there was something there and I couldn't find it. Oh no wait, Blood or Turn. I did actually write that. But I like yours more.

SPEAKER_03 38:15

You mentioned the pool, and I didn't quite pick up on the the nuance I should have with appreciating how they decorated the pool throughout the movie and how it just progressively got more and more pilgrimy. But I will say one of the scenes that stood out to me, it wasn't necessarily a favorite one, but I think one of the more intense ones for me was Cody being dunked into the pool because that's such a special brand of torture. And there was that point where I was genuinely concerned for her life and was not convinced she was actually going to make it out, which would have been bullshit.

SPEAKER_01 38:50

Yeah, I when they started doing the donkey thing, I was like, oh, they're gonna this is how they're gonna end the movie, is like everyone's gonna die in the film, and they're they're gonna try to prove some point with that because she literally looks like she's drowning every single time they do it.

SPEAKER_02 39:02

It also felt like even though she was getting air every couple seconds, like somehow she was drowning more each time. And I was like, huh? I was confused by the mechanics of that. And I was also just like, stop letting all of that air out of your mouth.

SPEAKER_03 39:15

I think what we can't see is that in the okay, this is gonna be one of the dumbest things I ever say. In the real time of the fictional movie. I think what they are trying to show us, and obviously you have to cut back and forth and like create the illusion of time passing. I think she was held under longer every time. Each time she went down, she's down there even longer than the one time she was before. And I don't have the lung capacity for that, so my heart goes out to you.

SPEAKER_01 39:43

I can never remember if you're supposed to like hyperventilate before that happens, like if you're about to have to be forced underwater if you're supposed to hyperventilate to get more oxygen to your brain or not. I never remember.

SPEAKER_03 39:52

I don't want to think about it. I'd rather just not do that.

SPEAKER_01 39:54

Yeah, I I definitely don't want my head dumped underwater by anybody, but specifically when I'm tied to something where I can't get off of it, that's frightening.

SPEAKER_04 40:02

Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_01 40:03

My favorite scene is an earlier one, uh, simply because I had to pick one. So um I chose to pick the party scene in the beginning because I I think it really tries to set up what's wrong with this family and what's wrong with the community. It's trying to show how fake everybody is and like what they care about and what and the fact that what they care about doesn't really matter. And it does show oddly that this one mom has control over the entire like group of friends, which is really strange. I don't understand why she's able to push herself on them. But um, you know, HOA, captain of uh captain of whatever else, family things, parent things she's into. I get it. They respect her, I guess, but whatever. If somebody told me you're gonna take this person, I wouldn't do it. Um if somebody made me come to this crappy party, I'd probably leave after like saying hello, so I don't get it. But I just love that they put like took the time to point out that people are aware of how fake she is, and she's probably aware of how fake she is. I mean, I think she kind of gets there in the film, like, yeah, I know it's you know, but she's trying to like prove to herself that she has a good thing, and uh, she's aware of it, she's thankful, you know. She tries to tell him over and over before he wants to kill her, like, dude, I get it. I have I have good stuff, but we're imperfect and we want more. I just I like the fact that they took the time to show the dynamic between her and her neighbors.

SPEAKER_04 41:23

Yeah, and that's what I can appreciate about this movie is how immersive it is in its dialect, in the setting of the movie, and just the things that they chose to bring about in this where you really feel like you're there. Hopefully you're not dying in this, but you're definitely there. My favorite scene is like essentially collectively, all the sounds where there's something in the distance, and this goes along with the immersion, is you actually feel, and maybe it was because I had my headphones on today watching this on my laptop, but I really felt immersed in this movie because one, I can't hear things ever. So now I have to wear headphones when I'm watching things, but I do have the subtitles on on the bottom, so I can read along, but it really felt like it was in the background, and I like that depth that you get even with the sound in this movie.

SPEAKER_01 42:12

I I did think for a minute that my neighbors were talking in that party scene I mentioned because like there's some background noise, and I was like, I swear that's not the movie.

SPEAKER_04 42:19

Yeah, and there's another a few other things, and I was like, wait, is this this movie or is this happening outside of these headphones at this point? I didn't hear any of this.

SPEAKER_02 42:28

I also didn't hear any of this, but something I did hear actually made for my favorite scene, which is the scene where Patience makes that spooky tea for Catherine. The reason that this was my favorite scene is because Patience, giving the backstory of this whole like pilgrim bullshit, was the most compelling I ever found this story to be. And I think that she could have carried this movie on her own if given the chance. I think Ethan, get fucked, we don't need him here. He did nothing for me except creep me out with his diddling vibes. But I think patience had a lot of potential, and in addition to like really bringing me into her world with that monologue, as she's like obviously making that super clearly poisoned tea. Um, she also ended up being my favorite character in the whole movie. And it wasn't Anna. I don't know why y'all thought it was Anna. She was awful.

SPEAKER_03 43:19

I don't know why you like patience.

SPEAKER_02 43:21

Oh my god, she was like the best actress in the movie.

SPEAKER_03 43:23

Really?

SPEAKER_02 43:24

Wouldn't die, had the best lines.

SPEAKER_03 43:27

She felt very stiff.

SPEAKER_02 43:28

Oh, yeah, but that was like kind of it. Also, she was in Ready or Not.

SPEAKER_03 43:31

She didn't feel like pilgrim stiff though. She felt like you were a burden to exist in this world.

SPEAKER_01 43:37

Yeah, I like that. I think you bring up a good point though, that she was like almost able to ground Ethan and make him a sympathetic killer. And I think they really should have explored that. It would have made this movie like two hours 20 minutes and not one hour 20 minutes. But if they had spent more time making you think, like, oh, he's he's trying to do like a social thing to improve people's lives and then show him like kill people, you would. Feel a bit a bit torn, but they just kind of like gave you like a little tidbit and like had her monologue a little bit, and then it was just like, cool, I'm gonna eat some peeps.

SPEAKER_02 44:07

Yeah, and for all of the gratitude bullshit Ethan was spewing, patience actually made me feel a little bit more grateful for the shit I had during that monologue. I was like, you know what? I I do have a lot.

SPEAKER_03 44:17

I would agree that she could have carried the movie on her own for sure. I don't know why she was your favorite character. I I mean I hear your explanation, I don't logically understand it, but I do think that between her and Ethan, she was the more menacing of the two, and honestly, Ethan was just unbearable. But of course, if you're gonna be a pilgrim impersonator or, you know, whatever, you can't live outside of the confines of the patriarchy, so I guess we had to have Ethan somehow, and maybe that really is just the point of it all. But my favorite character in this is obviously Cody calling everybody out on their bullshit the entire runtime.

SPEAKER_04 44:55

I do like the way no one is questioning anyone but her, and everyone seems to think, oh, they're just in character, and she is calling out everyone's bullshit, and I like how it's a single character doing that.

SPEAKER_03 45:08

Absolutely, they made choices here, and you know, there's a point where he tries to kiss her hand, she's like, Oh no, none of that, thanks. Just rejects him because she has bodily autonomy. But there's a point where Anna says, Where else would they stay? She says, A motel comes to mind, we don't know them.

SPEAKER_02 45:23

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 45:24

Very straight up, plain fucking language. What the hell are y'all doing?

SPEAKER_04 45:28

Yes, very everyday, what someone would say if this were a situation in their life. I didn't hate the characters at all. You know, I think someone or possibly people watching this could say it was shallow, but I feel like there wasn't much to go off for the runtime of this movie. I do wish, and you know how I like a little bit more explanation. I feel like Ethan should have been more menacing, but I do like how it was patience, but I wish they could have given some more background to what they've done, maybe show some other kills from previous families that this has happened with, or at least maybe not show it, but allude to it. And I think that would make this group a little bit more menacing because honestly, neither of them did it for me, but the people surrounding the table, the other pilgrims, they were to me more menacing than them two combined.

SPEAKER_03 46:22

Okay, so I don't know that I would have needed a lot of backstory as to why they're doing anything. I don't think I'll want any of that. I think they'd ruin it. Here's what I would have loved the implication that every single one of their pilgrims was someone they collected from a family.

SPEAKER_02 46:39

Oh, that's cute.

SPEAKER_03 46:40

That would be freaking great. I thought things were headed that way for a minute. And then they'd fucking botched the landing again. They didn't even make it through the 80-20 rule. They got 75% of the way there, and then someone botched the last quarter of it.

SPEAKER_01 46:53

Yeah, because it really showed them connecting with her, like talking about the fact that she was having a hard time, you know, with Thanksgiving because of her mom and dad fighting, and then her mom leaving, and then, oh well, Ethan had a really bad upbringing or whatever, and he's like kind of sore about Thanksgiving. So I was like, oh, they're totally targeting to bring her on and become part of this crew and uh let down. Yeah. They're just gonna eat people.

SPEAKER_03 47:15

Here are pamphlets, we meet thrice weekly, here's a jacket. Honestly, they it felt like that. It felt very recruiting effort, honestly.

SPEAKER_04 47:24

Yeah, when in doubt, just sprinkle in cannibalism when you don't know what to do, right?

SPEAKER_03 47:29

A shout-out though to Anna, who proved to be multidimensional. I was really expecting her to just be really annoying and be the same note throughout the whole movie. But when she quickly caught well, I would say quickly, it's not really, she still allowed them into the home, which is a sign of it her not catching on quickly at all. But when she finally acknowledges Cody was right, I should have listened to her, and she knows that things are going on, and she's trying to tell Shane that things are going on. We saw her change so much. Like Cody, I felt was consistent the whole way through and just a fucking badass. But Anna, I feel actually had some change in a reasonable way, which I really appreciated.

SPEAKER_01 48:13

Yeah, she literally said, like, oh, I just got so caught up in my own BS. So like she realized that she was at fault here.

SPEAKER_02 48:18

I felt like that wasn't very earned. I felt like it was told, and we always talk about that, but it was like she goes from being like an insufferable character, ruining the lives of everyone in her vicinity, to being like, Oh, oops, I fucked up, now I'm on your side. And I was like, Really? Give me more, give me texture, give me depth.

SPEAKER_03 48:35

It's a tight 120 pairs. You can have one or the other, not both.

SPEAKER_01 48:38

I know. With that, she hit that threshold though, where it was like, okay, they're sticking around, it's weird, they say strange things, it's fine. People started changing her home, and it was game over. She knew that the jig was up. Not right away. She was fine with the shed, and she was fine with removing all of the lights and replacing them with candles. Well, a ton of people are into that these days, so she probably thought, like, oh, this is cool, it's like, you know, earthier whatever. They were goop candles.

SPEAKER_03 49:04

Cottage couture.

SPEAKER_02 49:05

Yeah, very cottage core. When it comes to best part, worst part, I'm gonna give a little of each. I'm gonna say the best part of this movie is the really interesting, I'd say unpredictable, use of music in the final act, specifically the techno music that's blaring while patients vomits blood all over a child inside of a cabinet. And then also the dramatic musical cue of the choir as they bring in the cloche with the dad's head underneath it and they go through that reveal. I thought that was like so bizarre and so odd, but I was like, I was like pretty happy with the choices that they made there. I gotta give a worse part though. It's the use of the fisheye lens. They did way too much with that goddamn fish eye, to the point where I was like, I'm not even somebody who's prone to motion sickness, but I could see myself throwing up if I keep watching this. And I thought they were doing it to be like, oh, this is all in a dream now, because Cody fell asleep, and then we're gonna wake up afterwards. And I really thought that that was what was going on until the very final scene, and I was like, so they're not gonna do that? This was all happening, and they just decided to throw in a fisheye for the last 25% of the movie.

SPEAKER_03 50:10

Every time there's a new budding photographer who discovers a quality fisheye lens, they overuse the hell out of it.

SPEAKER_01 50:17

It was very bad. When at the very end he asks her, like, did you get what you wished for? I legitimately was like, Oh, they're gonna end it as being a dream at that point.

SPEAKER_02 50:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:26

There's only one good kind of wishbone, and that's the dog who was a sleuth and a storyteller. The wishbone angle was all lost because it wasn't he also holding the wishbone in his hand. Uh-huh. Yeah, and I think at some point in this movie there were a bunch of wishbones, so several wishbones and consequential. Best part of this movie for me was the relationship between Cody and Tate. I really appreciated that. I really appreciated how she looked out for him, and he wasn't just like the annoying little brother that uh gets in the way the whole time or causes unnecessary distraction. He was really buying into Ethan's crap, which I wasn't a fan of, but it was honestly great child actor. He really walked a fine line there. Worst part of the movie was Shane. Your boy's been in too many movies to be acting this terribly.

SPEAKER_01 51:16

But go back to Tate for a minute because I swear that he was laughing under the cupboard when she was puking all over.

SPEAKER_03 51:21

Oh, I thought he was grimacing and crying.

SPEAKER_01 51:23

Oh, I misread his facial cues.

SPEAKER_03 51:25

You are an android.

SPEAKER_01 51:26

That's that's true. I struggled to find the best part, so I'm just gonna say my worst part that I that I was very obvious to me, and I've mentioned it earlier, the editing of this. The whole like instant replay thing, like it's a very saw-esque kind of move to like go back in time, but they didn't go back like 20 minutes earlier. They went back literally 10 seconds earlier and re-showed you the same thing like over and over, sometimes from a different angle. Um, they had really odd angles in some cases, especially when they showed somebody doing something evil. They would like have that like upwards-facing shot and or downwards-facing shot. It was extreme angles, and you know, it just didn't work for me. And and kind of like Paris mentioned, there's some shots that would make you motion sick, and those things like didn't fit into the rest of the movie. So I feel like it demanded more of like a wide shot and slow-moving like actors, kind of like only God forgives with Ryan Gosling. Um, but instead, we get this like more fast-paced shots when when we have to see somebody's like doing something bad, and it just didn't work for me whatsoever. So the the editing choices they made for certain parts of the movie really ruined it for me because the rest of the movie um visually actually looked really good, and that I could say is the best part, is that aside from the bad parts, it all looked pretty decent.

SPEAKER_04 52:32

Paris worst part for me was the music though.

SPEAKER_01 52:36

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_04 52:37

Yes, especially when they brought the dad's head down. And I think this goes back to how I felt during this movie, was very disjointed, and I think because between the camera lens, between the music choices, between the cuts, I wasn't sure how I was supposed to feel. Was I supposed to laugh? Was I supposed to be in suspense? Like I just wasn't sure. And I know the music really spoke out to that feeling for me. But I probably will not watch this movie again though. I mean, I I've seen it, I've done it, I I know the experience, but I will definitely go back and watch some more movies in this into the dark series that they have because you know I love some holiday-themed horror.

SPEAKER_03 53:22

Well, I don't really like the taste this movie left in my mouth, and I really love a lot of things that Blumhouse has done. This one is a hard pass for me, though. I can't imagine I'm going to willingly dive into the rest of the Into the Dark series unless I hear that one of them is absolutely incredible. Maybe then I'll do it, but otherwise, I'm good.

SPEAKER_02 53:44

Yeah, I'm definitely not gonna watch this again. I'm not even gonna go back to see that little end credit scene.

SPEAKER_04 53:49

You're not missing out on much. It was a single image that kind of left things in suspense. But now that Chris mentioned, it's very underwhelming.

SPEAKER_03 53:58

Okay, yeah, just for our listener, don't get yourself worked up. The employee who pitched this idea and ended up co-writing this story was about eight years old. His mom was president of the fucking PTA, got a group of pilgrim uh Thanksgiving first Thanksgiving reenactors to put on a performance. One of the pilgrims ended up staying at his house for a couple days and didn't break character the whole time he was there. That is the story. No homicide, no creepiness, no nothing. It's just one guy being a pilgrim telling stories about the Mayflower. So really a great actor.

SPEAKER_04 54:32

Yeah, I really hyp that ending up a lot, so I apologize to our listeners.

SPEAKER_01 54:37

You know, I think Blumhouse like generally has like pretty decent stuff. I even enjoyed Seven in Heaven. I don't know if you if you've all seen that before, but it was also a kind of a silly premise, but I think very entertaining, probably more sci-fi related in a way, which is why I liked it. This one though, I gotta say no thank you. One serving was enough.

SPEAKER_03 54:56

Well, let's see if we can get a serving of something else in fact or fiction.

SPEAKER_01 55:01

Indeed, you can. And so this one, we're gonna go back to something that you know Alexis mentioned earlier. Wild turkeys can fly for over a mile.

SPEAKER_04 55:09

I'm just going back to my kindergarten turkeys, and I feel like there's a lot going on in the back with the feathers. They got a little feathery, colorful junk in the trunk, so I feel like this is a fiction.

SPEAKER_02 55:21

I'm gonna say fact because like turkeys in the wild are different from turkeys in captivity, maybe. Actually, uh, a mile's of long distance. Whatever, fact.

SPEAKER_01 55:30

This is indeed a fact. The turkeys that we eat were bred to be thick for more food value, so they cannot soar like their wild relatives can. Interestingly enough, due to this breeding, turkeys have literally doubled in heftiness over the last 40 years.

SPEAKER_03 55:45

That makes me very sad. Is that only in America?

SPEAKER_01 55:48

Well, I don't know. I don't know if other countries breed their turkeys for consumption the way that we do, or if we just export all the turkey meat for the world.

SPEAKER_03 55:54

Hmm, interesting.

SPEAKER_02 55:55

Oh, wait, there's literally that alcohol called wild turkey that has like a skinny snatched turkey on the cover. Or on the label.

SPEAKER_03 56:02

Okay, so Ryan made a hot chicken. We need to make her a hot turkey.

SPEAKER_01 56:07

Yeah, somebody somebody make that graphic, or somebody text Ryan right now and tell her to make it for us, but we need a snatched turkey tonight. Number two, wild turkeys might be airborne, but turkeys are formidable on land too. Running at over 20 miles an hour.

SPEAKER_04 56:21

Uh, this is probably a fact. They look terrifying and they look fast.

SPEAKER_01 56:25

Yeah, no, I've seen turkeys run. It's wild. This is fact. This one's a fiction. I stressed it a little bit. They can run pretty fast, but only around 12 miles an hour. So god damn it. I still wouldn't want to be chased by one. They will attack a human being, uh, but not quite 20. Number three, the first Thanksgiving was much longer than the three-hour binge fest we celebrate prior to crashing on the couch. I'm talking a whopping six days to celebrate. Feasting and saying thanks, bruh. The murder, the genocide. Fact.

SPEAKER_04 56:52

Fact.

SPEAKER_01 56:52

This one's a fiction. So it was longer than one day, but it was only around like three days long for this massive feast. Now, if they had our grocery stores back then, yeah, it would have been like two weeks long. Number four, the first Thanksgiving might have included turkey, but it was pretty much a sausage fest. There were only four women in Plymouth at the time.

SPEAKER_04 57:10

Now I got your it took me a second to understand what you mean. No, I feel like they brought a lot of women. I mean, they were bringing their whole family, so I think this is a fiction.

SPEAKER_01 57:24

Let's divide and conquer, Alexis. I'm gonna say fact. It is a fact. Many wives were left behind because they were considered too weak to help build a colony, and they'd be sent for once things were like, you know, fully set up. Some of the few that did come died, just like some of the guys died, due to the perils of the new world. Yay, feminism.

SPEAKER_04 57:43

Right.

SPEAKER_01 57:44

And finally, number five. If it was up to Benjamin Franklin, the turkey would have become our national bird instead of that bird of bad moral character, the bald eagle.

SPEAKER_04 57:52

This is fairly interesting, so I feel like it's a fact.

SPEAKER_02 57:55

I'm gonna say fiction because maybe it wasn't Ben Franklin's decision at all.

SPEAKER_04 57:59

It was George Bush's. What? What?

SPEAKER_01 58:04

Okay, so this one's a fact. Um, so he didn't like that eagles would steal food from other birds, and he considered the turkey brave, respectable, and a true American native. So if it was his decision, we have the turkey. Okay, but how on brand that we went with the eagle who famously steals from others. I know. It's a perfect match, and that's been fact or fiction.

SPEAKER_03 58:25

Well, there you have it, folks. Pilgrim from 2019 has not managed to steal good favor from us this evening, earning three hacks and one slash. While we've certainly had a robust discussion here, it doesn't end here by any means. Obviously, there are a lot of layers of storytelling in this film, and uh a lot that you could reach for if you want to examine it and compare it against the first Thanksgiving. But keep in mind there are a number of ways you can reach out to us, starting with our website, hackerslash.live. Or on our social media accounts on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. Alternatively, you can also reach out to the Hackerslash Hotline and you can leave us a voicemail at 757-606-0128. That number's down in the show notes, or you can visit HackerSlash.

SPEAKER_01 59:06

Or if you've drank wild turkey and eaten a wild turkey, you can send us an email to feedback at hackerslash.com.

SPEAKER_02 59:13

If you've enjoyed listening to this episode, consider becoming one of our patrons like Alex. You can visit patreon.com slash hackerslash to earn cool perks for as low as $1 a month.

SPEAKER_03 59:23

We'll see you next time, folks, and remember, you're too focused on your electronic windows to nowhere. Bye.