191: Silent Night, Deadly Night (1984)

SPEAKER_00 0:04

It's like when you clock in and clock out, and you're like, I should probably just go home, and they're like, wait, we're all getting drinks after, and you're like, ugh, do I even want to do this?

SPEAKER_02 0:16

Seasons, greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hack or Slash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. Time to get shit-faced. If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

A total joke, a waste of time, or a slash. Totally killer, pun intended.

SPEAKER_02 0:35

We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, we're rating these movies with the perspective we've gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast. This week I'm joined by the Superfly Space Guy Mac Punish and the Scream Queen Paris.

SPEAKER_00 0:52

I see nothing but greed when there should be gratitude.

SPEAKER_02 0:54

This week we're getting in the old Saint Nick spirit by checking out a classic 80 slasher known for the controversy surrounding its release. Before we get down to business, though, we have some follow-up.

SPEAKER_00 1:04

Let's follow up on a movie. We recently reviewed The Final Girls, a movie that I thought I would love, but just didn't. But that's not that important. We wanted to hear what our listeners thought about this movie. And the results are in. Only 15% hacked it and 85% got into the gig and slashed it.

SPEAKER_02 1:22

Oh, it sounds like uh and the majority of people have great taste. I'm still amazed that you didn't like it.

SPEAKER_01 1:27

I didn't watch it, so I I don't know how to feel one way or the other.

SPEAKER_00 1:30

Honestly, Mac, on paper, I would love it. But somehow, I just didn't. There's I mean, I I went over it in the episode. Listeners, if you're curious, go back and listen to the episode. It was, I think it was a really good episode. Um, but I don't blame 85% of people for slashing this. There is a lot to love about this movie. Moving on though, our B sides in that episode, we covered a very interesting topic, which were celebrity crushes that are famously questionable, maybe not that hot, maybe kind of ugly, but you still think they're hot. Mac, do you have any of these?

SPEAKER_01 2:00

So, you know what's funny is I'm looking at the list, and uh, one of mine is on there, and that's America Ferreira, one of the most beautiful human beings on earth.

SPEAKER_00 2:08

Yeah, to me that's not questionable. America Ferreira is like conventionally gorgeous.

SPEAKER_02 2:12

Yeah, absolutely. A stunning woman she is.

SPEAKER_01 2:15

Did did our patrons just list their celebrity crushes? Is that kind of the direction they went?

SPEAKER_02 2:19

Probably because I listed my celebrity crushes, and none of them were questionable.

SPEAKER_00 2:22

Yeah. Yeah, Chris was like, mine are really sus. And it was like Natalie Portman and like Scarlet Johansen.

SPEAKER_02 2:28

I don't like Scarlett Johansson, actually.

SPEAKER_00 2:30

Okay, that's a hot take.

SPEAKER_01 2:32

We've we've talked about it before. Karis Van Houten, um, who's the Red Priestess in Game of Thrones. Oh, love her. Yeah, so obviously hot. I'm trying to think who else I would have up there. Famka Jansen, absolutely. Hot, just unquestionable, right? And then uh Charlie Steron, maybe, but like a young mini driver, I would go for that too. Oh, I love that, Mac.

SPEAKER_00 2:56

These are more just like sleeper hots, not like suspici, like questionable hots. No, like I you can't nobody could question any of them.

SPEAKER_01 3:02

I don't think.

SPEAKER_00 3:03

Yeah, I don't think either. Um, but patrons, we have your number. We have a list of the hotties that you've pointed out. Rob said, since everyone is throwing out celebrity crushes, I'll join the fun. Mine is Anna Kendrick.

SPEAKER_02 3:15

Okay. Again, not a questionable choice at all. Anna Kendrick is an American darling and absolutely gorgeous, both externally and in terms of her incredible sense of humor.

SPEAKER_00 3:25

I could see Anna Kendrick being hit or miss for some people. Like, she's not the most conventionally like stunning, but I think she gets by a lot on her personality, which I think is great. And like after a while of looking at her, I'm like, you know what? You're hot. You're great. We have another hot take from Britney who said Pete Davidson is hot, so we can confirm that. Another vote for Pete. And then she also said, I'm a fan of Jason Siegel for unconventional hotness too. And I'm not gonna lie, I don't think I know who that is, so I'm gonna Google it.

SPEAKER_02 3:52

Yeah, he's the one from uh Forgetting Sarah Marshall and from Oh, How I Met Your Mother.

SPEAKER_00 3:58

Mm-hmm. Oh, he's very hot, actually. I am absolutely here with you, Brittany. Once again, you and I are in alignment.

SPEAKER_02 4:04

He's a good-looking guy. I think where he falls off in attractiveness for me is I think even within Forgetting Sarah Marshall, I think he does unattractive things. Like he's he's in that realm of comedy that can be gross at times and make him look sloppy. But he as a human seems very, very uh put together.

SPEAKER_01 4:23

See, I I have issues with this because I feel like he is pretty similar to another actor, uh Chris O'Dowd, who is obviously hotter.

SPEAKER_02 4:32

I thought you were gonna say he was pretty similar to you, Mac, and I was like, damn, Mac, this is who you see yourself as.

SPEAKER_01 4:37

No, no, defin definitely not. I'm uh, you know, I don't know who I would see myself as. If if there was a movie and I had to choose somebody to play me.

SPEAKER_00 4:45

Ew. Sorry, I just googled Chris O'Dowd. Mac, Chris O'Dowd is not hotter than Jason Siegel. You have to hear his accent, just saying. I have. I've seen Bridesmaids hundreds of times. He's hot, sure, unconventionally hot. Yeah, he could get it. But hotter than Jason Siegel, I don't know. Jason Siegel is very tall. Moving right along, Freya said, I fancy Bill haters so much. Plus, big noses are so sexy. Am I going to lose friends for thinking Steve Buscemi is hot?

SPEAKER_01 5:12

Okay, uh, I don't know about the Buscemi thing. Maybe like on a personality level. Uh, but big noses, I can confirm, are hot. We have discussed this, I think, on our podcast previously, but a distinctive nose is absolutely hot.

SPEAKER_02 5:24

Paris, didn't you then put two and two together and confirm that Freya is Ryan's Twitter friend who thinks Steve Buscemi is hot?

SPEAKER_00 5:32

Honestly, I thought I did, but I don't think it was Freya specifically, and I actually don't remember now. So who's to say the mystery continues? I will say Bill Hader, I can see why you'd think he's hot, Freya. I have a thing where I hate blue eyes, so I just like can't get into it.

SPEAKER_02 5:48

How self-loathing can you be, Paris?

SPEAKER_00 5:50

No, there can only be one, Chris. Blue eyes are cold, bitchy, and uncaring. Whereas like brown eyes are like so warm and like kind and inviting. You need a balance.

SPEAKER_02 6:00

Honestly, it's so easy to fall in love with brown eyes.

SPEAKER_01 6:03

Yeah, it really is. I'm just sitting over here with green eyes, whatever.

SPEAKER_02 6:06

Oh, green eyes are unanimously sexy. It's okay.

SPEAKER_00 6:09

We get it, Mac. You're unique. Finally, to round us out, we have Alex who said my list would have to be Sandra Bullock, Jennifer Tilley, Aubrey Plaza, and America Ferreira. Okay, so I agree on all every item in this list.

SPEAKER_02 6:22

Alex and I agree on Aubrey Plaza for sure.

SPEAKER_00 6:24

Wait, Chris, you don't agree on all of these? These are all gorgeous women.

SPEAKER_02 6:27

Oh no, I do agree that they are all gorgeous, but Aubrey Plaza was also on my list.

SPEAKER_00 6:32

Oh yeah, Aubrey Plaza in that one cat photo shoot she did. Ugh. Anyway, we have a new patron that we'd love to thank, and I'm not gonna lie, her name is Sabrina. Sabrina, I gotta let you know, that's one of the hottest names of all time. Thank you so much for your support. You are a legend, an icon, and a star in my eyes. I hope you call into the Hackerslash Hotline soon, send us a message, give us something so we can talk about you more. Anyway, that's our follow-up.

SPEAKER_02 6:56

Next year, Orwo and Blackhanger Studios plan to release a reboot of a 1984 film that was based on a single line from a script Paul Caine gave to a group of producers. The line was about a killer Santa Claus, and those producers gave him story credit as they expanded upon the idea. Their film features a young boy who watches the murder of his parents at the hands of a man dressed as Santa, and how that trauma shapes him as he reaches adulthood. This story wasn't the first time audiences saw a killer clause, but nevertheless, its release was picketed by angry parents and had its theatrical run cut short after just two weeks. We'll see what all the fuss was about though, because this week we're talking about Silent Night, Deadly Night. Who's seen this one before?

SPEAKER_01 7:35

I have not seen this before, but I distinctly remember seeing a trailer for it as a child, and I don't know how, because it was like out before I was even born. So I don't know if they ever ran it on TV or something, or if they were showing, you know, a trailer for buying the VHS. I don't know, but I remember seeing like a trailer on TV and then like hearing like people talk about it.

SPEAKER_00 7:55

That's interesting, Mac. I feel like it was definitely the VHS option between those two. Um, I of course have not seen this movie, but now that I'm hearing all this drama, uh I'm kind of glad that I did.

SPEAKER_02 8:06

Yeah, I actually haven't seen it either. I've seen so many weird Christmas horror movies, and for some reason I had it in my mind that I'd seen this, but this was the first time, and let me tell you, going into this, I expected this to be really slopsticky, really goofy, and really just one of those things where you have like a B-rated 80s horror film that is overzealous in its attempt to like bring comedy into things, and then having a killer who's just the same song, like strong, silent type, maybe someone in a mask. I completely forgot that I'd seen images of this killer with the Santa getup, but not the beard fully covering his face. So I was in for a wild ride.

SPEAKER_00 8:50

Yeah, honestly, Chris, I was expecting a lot of the same. I first looked up like Silent Night or something with a similar title and saw that Kira Knightley was in it, and I was like, ooh, this could be good. And then I was like, oh, nope, that's not the movie we're watching. We're watching the one from the 80s, which I'm sure is gonna be some bullshit. So my expectations were very low going into this. It's like, listen, it's a horror movie that's holiday themed from the 80s. Like, there's really, you know what you're in for here. That's what I was expecting too.

SPEAKER_01 9:20

I just thought it was gonna be like, you know, Santa is now evil and has to kill everyone, and we're just gonna have a ton of gore and bad acting. I mean, when I looked up like the page about the movie and saw the cast and didn't recognize a single person, like they didn't even have photos for the actors, and I was like, oh, this is this is gonna be cheesy and it's gonna have some bad effects. Um when I was watching it though, what I wasn't prepared for was it was much closer to that, but mixed with an episode of Criminal Minds. In a way, there was it was a lot I'm not that's not deep, but it was deeper than I thought it would go into like psychological reasons for why someone would go through this.

SPEAKER_02 10:00

Well, yeah, I mean there there actually are moments in this movie that are deep, and I think it does a really good job of keeping things light enough and 80s enough that you don't dive too deeply into the the deepness of it, but this is one of those situations where you're following who in my mind is a sympathetic killer, and you see how many points in time this could have been stopped before it ever got this far, right? And I actually found myself really rooting for, up until a certain point, Billy, and really just shocked that they took the approach they did and made him as sympathetic as they did.

SPEAKER_00 10:37

I totally agree, Chris. There were so many times where this could have not happened, and to me it felt like a very unfortunate series of events. Like the all of these specific things happened to create this like perfect storm of i in a way, absurdity. But you're right, this the killer was fairly sympathetic, where I was also rooting for them to a point, and I was also feeling like somewhat shocked. I feel like this movie was a lot darker than I had expected, and I feel like it got away with things that you can get away with in the 80s that you can't get away with today. And I also just felt like it was very disturbing and unsettling.

SPEAKER_02 11:10

Disturbing and unsettling is such a good way to put it, but to be fair, this movie didn't get away with any of that because this movie did things that you see in other 80s movies, and yet this movie was the one that was protested because uh homicidal Santa Claus. I think people went a little bit hard. I think there are worse things in the movie than Santa Claus, for sure. But that's not why it was picketed.

SPEAKER_00 11:31

Yeah, that's interesting to hear that. That's the reason this movie was protested.

SPEAKER_02 11:35

Yeah, it's absolutely ridiculous. And I think I I can't really overstate how much of a pure shock it was that this movie was so totally different than anything I anticipated. There are moments in here that are a little bit funny, absolutely, but even in the first opening, we have uh this little child actor playing a young Billy who I think is absolutely adorable and so lovable. And I found myself just thinking, oh my gosh, like I know vaguely what this movie is about, and I'm so sad for what's about to happen to this kid. And then looking at even the performance that we get from one of the people in the retirement home that they're visiting, it's a little unnerving. It's it actually made me feel a little bit creeped out.

SPEAKER_01 12:16

Yeah, if if it weren't for like the last third of this movie, it would be a great episode of Mindhunter, to be honest. Like it it goes into some stuff that it's like, oh, like I understand this, and this is actually fairly believable what's happening. And that's the thing that surprised me the most is that I actually enjoyed the story for like the first two-thirds of the movie. The plot kept kept me interested.

SPEAKER_00 12:37

Yeah, the tone of this movie was definitely a surprise. It felt like it was trying to do something serious and sincere, where I don't know, just the premise of a killer Santa Claus does not seem like it would take that approach. And yeah, that opening scene, I also was like, damn. Like, first of all, acting. Second of all, this child is like really making me give a shit. But not care enough to be scared by it. Not not me at least. There's one element of this movie that I was definitely disappointed in that has a fear element to it that they kind of did one to five too many times. But other than that, no fear to be found here. Just like sadness.

SPEAKER_02 13:16

Yeah, there's a level of aggression in this movie that it does pull in a bit of the disappointment for me. And I think that's the only element that is a little bit frightening. It's the persistent objustification of women, and to know that it's not enough to just kill a woman, right? You have to take it a step further than that, and you're adding insult to literal injury, and it's it's something that left a bad taste in my mouth. However, I will say that I think the rest of the movie's approach switched that up a bit for me. I this didn't feel as exploitative as so many other movies that have done similar things have felt. This actually felt to me like looking at Rob Zombie giving Michael Myers an origin story and showing the things that happened to him as a kid, this felt like a really successful blueprint for that concept.

SPEAKER_01 14:06

I had the same thought when thinking through this. I'm like, man, this is how you're supposed to do origin stories, to where like you actually enjoy watching the origin story more than when they're the killer.

SPEAKER_00 14:16

I totally agree. I think the pacing of this movie was really well done for the most part. The beginning you get is like a first, maybe like 10% of the movie segment, and then you get like a 25% of the movie segment, and then you get the rest of the movie, and it was broken up in a way where it kind of builds something, and the something that it built, I think was somewhat original. It felt familiar in a lot of ways, but again, it surprised me at almost every turn, so it's definitely getting some originality points.

SPEAKER_02 14:49

This feels like the culmination of a few other movies, so even the opening graphic, right? We have the wreath of Holly and Mistletoe, and it says Silent Night, and it's lifted from Black Christmas. It has a similar font. Black Christmas was titled Silent Night, Evil Night. Now, this movie has nothing to do with it. I don't know that it's even particularly inspired by it by any way, but you also have this idea of a killer named Billy, and it has so many points that I have seen before, but it felt like a really unique ride.

SPEAKER_01 15:19

I I will agree. It's not what I expected it to be, but that's probably a good thing. It I think it it showed me that there was more to this than the cheesiness I was expecting. You know, I I my expectations were so low that when it went above them, it was a pleasant surprise, and it didn't feel like something else I had exactly seen, although there's parts of it that are obviously impacted by everything before it. So I think I get some originality points. I also have to give it points though, for you know, we have this first like two thirds that I think were actually really enjoyable, and then you make it to the last third, and you're and I just kind of tuned out at that point. It was kind of meh for me once we got to the actual killing, but the ending I thought was surprisingly good.

SPEAKER_00 15:58

That's interesting, Mac. I thought we were going to agree that the ending was a big flop. I started to fall asleep, I won't lie. There's a scene with a cop doing absolutely nothing for a little bit too long, and I just started to doze. And then there were things that happened in the ending that weren't what I wanted to happen. There were a lot of, like, I think missed opportunities to really nail it for me in the ending.

SPEAKER_02 16:20

I'm sure that there are a lot of ways that the ending could have been improved vastly, but I wasn't mad at it. And I think it's because I was softened by the total lack uh uh of action with that cop who was doing nothing for a little bit too long. There was one thing that stood out to me though that makes no sense, no logical sense that I could put together. And I will break down the math of this whole situation in the second half, but it drove me insane. That tempered my feelings of the uh the ending just a bit. But aside from that, I still have some mixed feelings about this movie, and I'm still feeling out the way I'm gonna rate it, but let's go ahead and make our way to our scores now. Before we actually rate Silent Night, Deadly Night. Mac, what's our body count?

SPEAKER_01 17:06

We have a lucky number 13 today.

SPEAKER_00 17:08

So it was the 12 days of Christmas plus a bonus day.

SPEAKER_02 17:11

Yes. Bonus death. But what about our animal report?

SPEAKER_00 17:14

Surprisingly, for a homicidal maniac that developed at a young age, there were no animals killed in the making of this movie.

SPEAKER_02 17:21

Oh, fantastic. Well, let's go ahead and get into our ratings and Silent Night, Deadly Night from 1984. Is it a hacker or slash?

SPEAKER_01 17:27

I mentioned earlier I actually enjoyed the plot and the killer's origin story. So I was actually drawn in in the first, you know, a good chunk of the movie, but there's just so much excessive rapiness and degradation of women that really kind of ruined it. I mean, it it we got to some scenes, and I was watching it with my wife, and we got to some scenes where we're like, oh, we just don't want to watch this. And they pulled some good tricks with some other kills where they, you know, they'll do stuff off-screen, they'll hint at things and then kind of move the camera away. And I know that's to save money, they don't have to show certain kills, but I wish they had done it during those scenes. I think if you were doing more of like a, you know, like a crime fiction where it seemed just truly about like a killer, whether it's a serial killer show on on HBO or something, I I think those themes are there for sure. It's very common with serial killers, but I think the way they showed it in this movie was just like we're gonna we're gonna put boobs on screen. And I I wasn't for it. It it really ruined the rest of the movie for me. Um, I mean, there's some good acting in here. There's also plenty of bad acting to go around. There's some laughable prop heads and and blood and that kind of stuff. So it's it is a mixed bag and it's really tough. Um, but I I think it was an overall like interesting watch, but I I just have to hack it.

SPEAKER_00 18:44

Mac, you mentioned that they felt the need to add boobs to this movie, and each boob that they added, my boyfriend and I laughed more and more because we're like, okay, this is absolutely pushing past absurdity and relevance, and it's just going into whoever made this movie just wanted to see boobs. So that you can definitely see the male gaze all over this movie in a way that's not too fun. In a shocking turn of events, though, I'm kind of gagged that I enjoyed this movie. It was so much darker than I expected. There were so many like horrible things that happened to a child in this movie, and you know, when when bad things happen to a kid, the stakes are very high because it's like nothing is sacred, and I'm always here for that. I think this might also just be like because my expectations for this movie were like absolute ground zero, that the way it told an interesting story with interesting characters, did some fun 80s things that made no sense at all. Uh, I actually wasn't mad about this movie to the point where I'm going to slash it.

SPEAKER_02 19:43

That is a shocking turn of events, and I find myself really split down the middle because there's so much in this movie that I absolutely loved. But Mac, you've outlined so many of the things that bring it down for me. I have to like sit back and look through the filter of like, what was this movie trying to achieve with what it had? There's something going on in this movie that I can't quite place my feelings on. It doesn't feel as cheap and exploitative as so many other movies do. This didn't feel like a I'm just gonna paint this with a brush of wanting to see hot chicks. But it it did move in that direction. So it's a really complicated mess for me. But I do think what's important is the way that they handled the depiction of trauma and the need for healing and help so early on, and how you know, even if one person sees that there's a way to help, if there's no support system or opportunity for treatment or just you know, counseling of any kind, those problems continue to fester over time. I think where I land is in a very soft slash territory. I think if the level of boob was reduced, if I could see a cut of this movie with the boobs reduced, with the assaultiness reduced, I think this would be a definitive, like a really, really, really strong slash.

SPEAKER_01 21:03

Agreed.

SPEAKER_02 21:03

It's complicated, it's messy, and I think there are certainly more exploitative films that I've seen, there are less exploitative films that I've seen that have still felt dirtier and greasier and just nasty, but I think this movie does something really incredible, which is show how childhood trauma resonates like an echo like throughout our entire lives. So, with that, Silent Night, Deadly Night from 1984, which is available for free on Tubi, has earned two slashes and one hack. Go ahead, check it out, then join us in the second half so we can see what Santa's up to.

SPEAKER_00 21:44

The holidays are a time forgiving, but there's always one relative who goes above and beyond the call of duty when it comes to being naughty. Don't let those bad boys get away with their misdeeds. Join Santa on his sleigh as he takes out his rage on this year's most deserving recipients of. Punishment. We're taking over an abandoned warehouse in Brooklyn to bring you Santa's sleigh ride, where we'll be live streaming your favorite holiday characters, beating the shit out of each other while you sit back and enjoy some eggnog. Donated by the Whole Foods. Tickets will sell fast, so make sure you grab yours before they all disappear. Get ready for some good old-fashioned holiday violence. It's sure to be one night of carnage you won't forget.

SPEAKER_02 22:28

Welcome back, folks. You are now entering the spoiler zone for Silent Night Deadly Night, which has earned two slashes and one hack. Now we have a lot to get to here, but before we get into the specifics of our ratings, we do have some gore to attend to. Paris, what's the gore score for this movie?

SPEAKER_00 22:43

So in Alexis' absence, I think I can speak for both of us, and she'll correct me when she comes back. This felt pretty light on gore. High on kills, but light on gore specifically. How do we feel about that rating?

SPEAKER_02 22:57

I would agree with that. There's definitely some moments I feel like, ugh, but there wasn't so much of it that it felt like you'd warrant even a medium.

SPEAKER_00 23:05

Yeah, it felt like the kills that needed more blood didn't have it, and then the kills that didn't really make sense to have blood had some.

SPEAKER_01 23:11

There's some kills that have blood, but it's the same amount that you would get in any kind of like true crime TV show or movie.

SPEAKER_02 23:17

This movie isn't short on brutality, but it definitely holds back on the blood of that brutality.

SPEAKER_00 23:24

That's a really great way to put it, Chris. And I think that might be due in part to the fact that many of the kill scenes were actually directed by the editor, Michael Spence, due to the director Charles E. Sellier Jr. being uncomfortable with handling the gore-heavy parts of the film. But I have a feeling he had no problem handling other parts of the film.

SPEAKER_02 23:43

Oh, I bet.

SPEAKER_00 23:44

The jiggly parts. Yeah. Now, with all of this being said, there were some pretty solid kills in this movie. I'm interested to hear like what everyone's faves were. I'm gonna throw it out there first.

SPEAKER_01 23:54

It's the Christmas light strangulation scene. That's that kill was solid because the dude deserved it, and because he picked him up like freaking Batman or something. I don't even know.

SPEAKER_02 24:03

Yes, it was very much Michael Myers pinning someone to a wall with a butchered knife. Absolutely a warrant to death. Excellent choice there. My favorite death is definitely gonna be Mac, who was decapitated with an axe. Honestly, Ride. That was just inventive and the reveal of that body and the head rolling down later. Oh, so good.

SPEAKER_01 24:22

And okay, so this is the moment when I remembered that this was the movie I was thinking of, thinking back to a 1980s Christmas movie that was like, you know, talked about a bunch because it's when he jumps into the frame with the axe and you know, he says whatever he says, and I was like, oh, this is the one. This is the one I remember seeing when I was a child, either like on a trailer for TV or whatever. It was that moment where he jumps into the frame. And I think it's good because they they did like so much not on screen that would have looked worse had they tried to.

SPEAKER_02 24:53

Yeah, they really held back in all the right places.

SPEAKER_00 24:56

I think there's a couple other places they could have held back in that they did not. But I know what you mean, Chris.

SPEAKER_02 25:02

Yeah, yeah, you you're right. I misspoke. In terms of the gore, they they held back in all the right places.

SPEAKER_00 25:07

Even there, I think Alexis and I want more from this movie. I will say, I think we can all agree what my favorite kill is. Sad as it was, impaling Denise on the antlers of a mounted deer on the wall was a kill I'd never even thought of before. But as soon as he picked her up, I was like, oh, what? What's happening? Oh no, not the antlers. I I have to say, I obviously identified as a Denise in this movie. If I were to die, I'd die in that exact look, in that outfit, and probably the same way. So I saw a lot of myself and Denise, and that's why that was my favorite kill.

SPEAKER_02 25:41

And it was the excruciating pace at which he hoisted her onto the deer, and just you know how much pressure that must have required. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:51

So slow. A slow, dull stabbing. And also, Max, speaking of like the Michael Myers-esque way that he lifted up that douche. Uh Dwight, my boyfriend, when we were watching, he was like, Oh, so this guy has super strength. And I was like, babe, don't you remember when they revealed him at 18 they and they panned from the bottom up to reveal how strong and tall he was?

SPEAKER_02 26:12

It's so true. They made him look like a piece of meat, and it really made me think that Mr. Sims was gonna have something more sinister there, and I was so re I was so relieved to know that it wasn't. It was just he was just pleased to not have a child.

SPEAKER_00 26:24

In like a creepy gay way, you mean?

SPEAKER_02 26:26

I thought that's what it was gonna be, and and it wasn't.

SPEAKER_00 26:28

Yeah, same.

SPEAKER_01 26:30

It gave very much that energy. Was it not that though? That the moment where he was kind of excited that he was himself?

SPEAKER_02 26:36

No, I didn't get that. So it seemed like okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. But then the more you see him there, it seems like he's just a guy who's just trying to have an efficient business and he was okay with then having like a strong, capable person.

SPEAKER_00 26:51

As a gay man who did objectify the hot Billy killer in this movie, um, I agree with Chris. I totally thought it was gonna go in that direction, but then afterwards I was like, okay, no, he's really just looking for an efficient worker here.

SPEAKER_02 27:03

Must have been a Capricorn.

SPEAKER_00 27:04

So one thing that surprised me about this movie is how many visuals from it like really stood out to me. I mean, we can say Billy was hot, we're not counting that as a visual element, but I was very surprised. Um, but one thing that really like I think was a great just shot when you have both of the parents dead in the middle of the road, and it like panned back to both of them as like the choir music started to build. I was like, oh, this is like really chilling to behold. And like to just be like a small child with a bowl cut, like hiding in the woods, like seeing this, like so disturbing.

SPEAKER_02 27:35

Mm-hmm. Absolutely. And actually, for me, the way that was injected into the other flashbacks, some of the white flashes of light I absolutely hated, but I love the way they showed him reliving his own trauma throughout his life. For me, that was really, really satisfying.

SPEAKER_01 27:51

Yeah, they did flashbacks, I think, pretty darn well. I mean, I hate flashbacks, but for having to do them, it wasn't it wasn't horrible. But they have these moments in the movie, that's like one of them where they kind of stand out from the rest of the film, where it seems like somebody else was working on that scene. You know, like that that intro scene, especially the part where we get to the baby at the end of it, it was like, did somebody else handle the baby part at the very end? And they were like, all right, bring in the art student, let's see what they can do. Um, because like that stood out, and there's a couple other scenes. I'm gonna let you finish the rest of your list, Paris, but I hope that a couple things I noticed make it into it as well.

SPEAKER_00 28:26

Okay, it was obviously a very fucked up scene because it was a child watching two people have sex, but that scene where you he's like peeping through the keyhole and you see like the light shining through in like the keyhole shape on his eye. I was like, oh, this is just like good cinematography.

SPEAKER_02 28:40

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:41

As disturbing as it is.

SPEAKER_02 28:43

Ten out of ten.

SPEAKER_01 28:44

And that's again, that was one of the moments where I was like, this just stands out. So I'm two for two so far.

SPEAKER_00 28:49

Okay, my third one, Mac, I am absolutely certain is not on your list, but it's the Miss Piggy cameo towards the end. What? Miss Piggy was in this movie. I don't remember that part. The scene where all the orphans at the end are like having a good time with their Christmas gifts. One of them has a Miss Piggy puppet and is like going full on with puppeteering her in the in the background.

SPEAKER_01 29:09

You gotta wonder if the extra was just like, oh, I get to play with a with a Miss Piggy. This is fun. And they were like, whatever, just keep it in.

SPEAKER_00 29:15

Yeah, that extra had a future as a puppeteer.

SPEAKER_01 29:18

Miss Piggy was performing. Well, I'm I'm glad you picked at least two that I also kind of highlighted, but I'm going to pick a visual that I already know you don't like. And that is the scene where the cop is killed in whatever that underground thing is that he's killed in. You said it went on, I think, too long, but I enjoyed it because that had that like true crime feeling to it where it's that isolation, I think, worked really well. And when we get to the end where he gets actually killed and like falls back into it, it did have that like moment of despair, I I feel like. And I don't know, maybe it was like the darkness of it that I that I really enjoyed, or just like seeing him look around all on his own. You really felt like he was scared for his life. Um, but I mean, he he was supposed to be because he just was about to die. But I I liked the way that that whole like shot worked, and to see that bit at the end where we see him falling into it, it it really shows just how helpless he is at that point.

SPEAKER_02 30:16

Oh, such isolation there, Mac. He actually was a bit of a drag for me because of the whole uh let me just do a lap around the perimeter, let me go down into a cellar. I could have done without him, honestly. I do appreciate the twist of him shooting a deaf priest. That's pretty tragic and almost hilarious but terrible.

SPEAKER_00 30:38

Okay, I must have missed the part where that priest was deaf. I got that it was a priest, but my God.

SPEAKER_02 30:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:43

Well, so he tells he tells them I was calling, I was telling him to stop, but he wouldn't listen. And they're like, because he's deaf. Yeah, he's deaf, he couldn't hear anything. Oh my god. It it felt like a moment of comedy. It's also horrible, like you mentioned, Chris, but the just the whole like segment is dark comedy.

SPEAKER_02 30:59

Yeah, it was Sister Margaret because the detective that she's with is like discovering he's like, Oh well, he told him to stop. And she's like, Of course he didn't hear, he's deaf. It was just her delivery of that. Just like the most sincere pain in her eyes. It was just so much. And while that character for me was a bit was a bit of a drag, there were some other things visually that stood out, and I found myself wondering what the hell was going on by the very sudden and jarring changes in quality of film. I watched the unrated cut on Tubi. Did you guys have the these random shots inserted that were a different quality?

SPEAKER_00 31:38

I watched the Tubi cut, but I can't say that I noticed the difference in quality between shots.

SPEAKER_02 31:43

Oh, it was glaring.

SPEAKER_01 31:44

I I didn't watch the unrated version, and I didn't notice there it was like a drastic difference, so maybe I wasn't paying attention closely enough. It all just kind of seemed the same for me.

SPEAKER_02 31:54

Okay, so uh years later, so there's a theatrical cut, and then years later, once they were going to put together a Blu-ray release, they added missing footage in. But the problem is that even though the footage was stored in a picture vault, it was preserved very poorly. So there's a noticeable jump in quality between the shots that are inserted. It's actually starts around the time that Billy is like in his trance before Andy and Pamela go into the back storage room. It's around that point that it really, really starts. And it's just a noticeable dip from the well gri color graded footage, then to this like almost it looks slightly dimmed and like out of focus in some places. It feels like it's like a really stretched resolution.

SPEAKER_00 32:38

Damn, that sounds really shitty.

SPEAKER_02 32:39

I can't believe you didn't notice.

SPEAKER_00 32:41

Maybe I maybe there's like another version on Tubi that doesn't have those. Maybe I like didn't watch the unrated version.

SPEAKER_01 32:47

Tubi has two versions available to stream. One of them is like the regular version, the other one is the unrated.

SPEAKER_00 32:52

Well, let this be the one time I'm not mad that I missed out on additional content.

SPEAKER_02 32:56

Well, there are actually some really good bits in there. So maybe you're missing out.

SPEAKER_00 33:00

Okay, fine, I am mad. Now, I'll be honest, the specific flashback scene I thought was kind of annoying. I thought to myself, do they think we're watching this on another day? Because that just happened. That the thing we're flashbacking to happened maybe 30 minutes ago. But I did think Alexis would appreciate it. And like you said, Chris before, like the blinding flashes, I was like, okay, this isn't how you do a flashback. Don't literally flash this in my eyes as it's flashing back. But a scene that I did love came right after that, where he basically saves Pamela from a really horrible situation and absolutely murders that pipsqueak. That man was so small, by the way, and he had so much shit to talk. I was like, sir, you are under five feet tall. I don't know where you think you get off running this stock room and doing jack shit back here and having this big attitude. But the thing that kind of shocked me was that after he saves Pamela, Pamela's mad at him and says he's crazy. And I'm like, yeah, maybe he didn't need to kill the Pipsqueak with the Christmas lights. Maybe that was a little too far. But I thought her reaction was a little surprising, at least to me.

SPEAKER_02 34:06

I thought so too. I'm curious if she hadn't reacted that way, if he still would have killed her, because in my mind he was gonna kill her no matter what, because he was triggered by the side of her breasts and reminded of his mother, unless he would have seen her as someone to really protect.

SPEAKER_00 34:21

That's what I thought.

SPEAKER_02 34:22

It's it's it's complex because I think if it if she if she were really someone that he wanted to protect, he wouldn't have killed her even though she called him crazy. That's where that kind of falls apart for me.

SPEAKER_00 34:31

Oh, yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_02 34:33

But I do agree, like I just it just seemed like because she was so friendly with him beforehand, like for sure he didn't have to kill him if she thought he was rational. It's tough. I was very sad. Like, Pamela had a shitty night.

SPEAKER_01 34:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:47

Pamela did not deserve any of the nonsense that went down that night. Uh, she really deserved better. And I'm curious to see when this movie gets rebooted next year, if that is still gonna be an element of it.

SPEAKER_00 34:58

It's like when you clock in and clock out and you're like, I should probably just go home, and they're like, wait, we're all getting drinks after, and you're like, Ugh, do I even want to do this? Pamela should not have done that.

SPEAKER_01 35:08

Yeah, that's the moment where you go, I'm just gonna go home and sit on the couch and watch TV and feel better that a psychopathic Santa Claus didn't stab me. I was kind of upset that, you know, he killed her, but also don't know if anything that happened in that moment is what caused it, because it seems like he was just making judgments about who was naughty leading up to that. Did she say something at one point in the past that he thought she's naughty and thus for and therefore he has to punish her?

SPEAKER_02 35:33

I thought he only thought she was naughty because she was making out with that dude.

SPEAKER_00 35:36

Well, he did also have like impure dreams of her.

SPEAKER_02 35:39

Yeah, but I don't think he was gonna murder her for that.

SPEAKER_00 35:42

I feel like he was projecting naughtiness onto her.

SPEAKER_02 35:45

Yeah, perhaps.

SPEAKER_01 35:46

Yeah, maybe just the sight. Like the sight of her was like, oh, she's naughty because I can see her. Even though that dude is the one that just ripped her shirt, you know, off her body, so it didn't make it make a lot of sense.

SPEAKER_02 35:58

And that's where this movie is problematic.

SPEAKER_01 36:00

Yes. But the the parts it kind of relates to this. I mean, the parts to me that were my favorite, like the favorite scenes were in the orphanage. I mean, the like the build-up to him kind of losing it and in the end there, I think was so good, but like showing how he was punished along the way, I thought was was actually really good. I mean, the part where he's punished for seeing other people do something is kind of that's crap. Like he didn't do anything, he just was like, Oh my god, I'm viewing something that I I don't understand right now, and then he gets punished for it.

SPEAKER_00 36:29

Okay, far be it from me to side with Mother Superior, but uh, she he was being punished for being out of his room.

SPEAKER_01 36:36

That's true. But uh the other the the sister told her, like I said he could, you know, come out here.

SPEAKER_02 36:41

Uh yeah, but who is Mother Superior if not an iron-fisted ruler?

SPEAKER_00 36:46

That's true. Also, like did that other nun speak up? Because there were times when she should have, and I feel like she didn't.

SPEAKER_02 36:51

She did. She spoke up, and then she didn't keep a strong spine throughout the but she was compassionate with him the entire time, which I admired.

SPEAKER_00 37:00

I mean, specifically when she like let him out of the room. I feel like she never took accountability for that part when she was like, You can come out now.

SPEAKER_02 37:06

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. She did mention as Mother Superior went to him and when they were outside, and she right before she asked, like, did you see anything? What did you see? Uh Sister Margaret did say, Mother, I told him it was okay. I told him it was okay to be out here. But then Mother Superior didn't do anything to her.

SPEAKER_01 37:24

Damn, I definitely missed that. It's also kind of funny because earlier on when she's talking to Mother Superior about like her thoughts on him, and she's like, I just truly don't give a crap about what you think. And I was like, Damn, talk about Iron Fist.

SPEAKER_02 37:37

I'm not usually the one to say I hope a none bites it, but I don't I don't understand how she managed to make it to the end and not die.

SPEAKER_01 37:44

I I truly thought that she was gonna make it through by like exacting punishment on him at the end and he was just gonna take it. Because all those scenes, like that my my favorite of them being like the last one before he grows up, you know, to where he's just cowering in the corner, don't punish me, don't punish me. Like it just like showed his psyche, I think, so well.

SPEAKER_02 38:04

So you thought wheelchair-bound Mother Superior was gonna kill him.

SPEAKER_01 38:09

Yeah. Come out on top. No, I I didn't think she even needed to. I thought she was gonna hit him with something and he was gonna let just like cower, you know, going back to his his childhood.

SPEAKER_02 38:19

Hmm. It would remind me of uh Freddie versus Jason. There's a part where Freddie uh traps Jason in an illusion with water and then he's like cowering with his legs. Actually, no, fucking going back to stay alive from a couple weeks ago. This little kid cowering in the room full of fire. Kids be scared, man.

SPEAKER_01 38:38

Or or I mean Jason's the perfect one where you throw in a sweater and he just he's all confused all of a sudden.

SPEAKER_02 38:43

Yeah, I'm glad that at least this guy wasn't that and he had a reason for his trauma. And I think as much as it kills me to say this, the first entire like opening of this film is my favorite scene because it was such a strong start. Yeah. It was the creepy grandpa who's turning and traumatizing this child, but also it created this moment of illusion for me where I'm like, is is what Billy's seeing really what's happening? Or is he an old Riley O coot who's just like traumatizing a kid? Like I had my grandfather who passed away when I was 15. He used to like just fuck with us all the time and just like tell us jokes or like do little things to scare us, but it was all in good fun. This guy obviously seems like a psychopath, but I wondered is what we are viewing exactly and literally what the grandfather's doing, or is he doing something and then that what we're seeing is just through Billy's eyes, like what he's imagining his grandfather is like. So that was an interesting question for me to start with.

SPEAKER_00 39:40

That's a really interesting question to put out there, Chris. Because at first when you started talking, I was like, ah, and then I was like, oh, you know what? That's actually a really good point. Like it could very well have been like the grandfather just trying to like jostle a little fun out of the kid, and he was like really terrified by it. But when I watched it, I just took it at face value where I was like, the grandpa is absolutely insane.

SPEAKER_02 40:00

Mm-hmm. Feels insane, but also that line where he's like, you know what happens on Christmas Eve, don't you? You know all about Santa Claus, it has very much Halloween energy. When Tommy Doyle's like, Yeah, we get candy, and then he's like, No, the boogeyman is coming. It felt like that, and it felt like this 70s, 80s, we are we have this urban legend, we have this story, and we're gonna fuck with any kid that we can find and just scare the shit out of him. And I absolutely love that. But it did break my heart when Billy uh goes back to him and says, I'll be good from now on, I promise. And then of course we have his mom earlier who had said Santa Claus is gonna bring you a big surprise tonight, you just wait and see. But the surprise was murder, right? Like this is uh, it's it's heartbreaking. That whole scene. I think if that kid wasn't as good as young Billy, this movie wouldn't have worked.

SPEAKER_00 40:51

And I think that speaks to the quality of some of the characters in this movie. I think Billy was pretty solid throughout, like each iteration of Billy, were all pretty well cast and well performed from my point of view. The entire staff of that toy store, pretty much garbage throwaway characters. The the Sisterhood of the Convent, I think were also really strong characters as well, to the point where you're like hating one of them, you're loving another one in a way that I never thought I would give a shit about when I came into this movie.

SPEAKER_01 41:20

I I'm gonna agree with the with the store personnel. I mean, we have those key players that exist for us to want them to die, you know, like you mentioned, the short douche, and we have other characters that you just aren't supposed to really give a crap about. And you just you need that filler, I think, you know, to really add to the body count, because you don't want every kill to be like emotionally painful or anything, so you have to like add in some that you're just like, whatever, he's gonna kill a few people, and that's fine. But I I think the the sisters, that's like that's a good point because it shows like how formative that time was for Billy. And I did not expect that from this movie. I did not expect them to go that deep. Like the fact that they showed you know the the sister like giving a crap about him and like wanting things that are better for him and understanding how trauma has affected him. Like her face when she realizes that they made him play Santa Claus, like she truly understood like what was at stake here. And I that was deeper than I thought they were gonna go with it. I didn't think there was gonna be like any mention of trauma and the impact, and they and they totally like nailed it on the head, like it's not good.

SPEAKER_02 42:26

Yeah, it's amazing to watch this movie now for the first time with our renewed focus on mental health and awareness of that, and knowing how terribly people have been fucking treated throughout history, knowing that if we had just gotten a little bit of help, things could have been so much different. I cannot wait to see a reboot of this movie, and I really hope they don't lose that because this was like a really, really pleasant surprise. I wasn't expecting that level of depth, and I think that depth is completely sold through Billy's performance in every step of the way. I am I know you mentioned this before, uh, but I'm just so surprised that they were able to get such quality performance at each phase of his life without one of them just totally botching it.

SPEAKER_01 43:15

The child was honestly the biggest surprise, and maybe it shouldn't be because there's like a ton of really great child actors. And watching that that first you know couple scenes there was just like, holy crap, like this kid is one, nailing it. Um, but two, they really make you believe that he is instantly scarred. Like that whole conversation with his grandfather, it's not like ah, you know, crazy old grandpa. Like he immediately takes on that trauma, that whole conversation with him. And then with what goes on with his family, and he's sitting there in the grass just watching, like you felt for that kid, and he did he did a good a good job of showing it.

SPEAKER_02 43:50

And honestly, though, he's the one asking the right questions. When the dad says he doesn't even know we're here, he's like, So what have we come for?

SPEAKER_00 43:58

I literally wrote that in my notes. Chris. I think the scenes like where you get like even the setup for the setup with Billy, where you're like, oh, he's just like a regular cute kid who just like is trying to have a good time with his parents on Christmas Eve. I laughed out loud when he said, Then what did we come for? Because like when you're that age, like you don't understand, like, why are we here with this old man if he can't see us? Whereas the parents are like, Oh, we're doing this because you know it's important for your father, blah, blah, blah. But like at that age, you're like, why are we here? I don't get it. He's weird, he smells bad, and now he's grabbing me when I'm alone.

SPEAKER_02 44:30

And that's the heartbreaking thing because even looking at that entire family, it seems like they had a really good nucleus. You know what I mean? It felt like a really wholesome experience. They didn't seem like idiots. You know, the kid says that grandpa said this, and she's like, Well, Billy wouldn't lie.

SPEAKER_01 44:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:44

We should call the doctor. I I just it was so sad to see them go. I think they could have easily made them look like negligent parents or just totally oblivious and obnoxious. It almost had a National Lampoon's Christmas vacation energy with Clark and his wife. And even just those little bits of time that we got with them made for an even more tragic story. But I do have something that bothers the shit out of me with one of these characters.

SPEAKER_00 45:10

Let's get into it.

SPEAKER_02 45:12

Okay, look, me and Math never was friends. And I know this is hacker math. But Ricky's age, Billy's little brother, doesn't make any fucking sense at all. So he's an infant in 1971. So he should have been three, maybe four in 1974. And that kid was talking like nobody's business. He looked like an older kid. But then that means ten years later, 1984, he should have been 13 or 14. You know, if he was older than he should have been in 1974, that's one thing. But then at the end of the movie, he looks like he's like 10 years old. It's like Benjamin Button shit going on here. It's like he reached his 30s somewhere in 1982 and it's just been traveling backwards. It's fucking bizarre, and I don't know why I can't figure this out.

SPEAKER_00 45:57

I was distracted throughout the whole ending for the same reason, Chris, because once they revealed that that child was the sibling, I was like, wait, what? So they were like maybe five or seven years apart at first, and then they were one year apart, and then they were ten years apart. And the whole time I was like, I I like that the that the sibling is still part of it and a factor. Like, that's interesting for me, don't get me wrong, but huh?

SPEAKER_02 46:21

Yeah, they really should have just cast the kid they want as the final kid and then just work backwards from there because they really fucked up the whole process.

SPEAKER_01 46:29

Somebody needed a whiteboard or a chalkboard, whatever they had back then, and they needed to figure out like, okay, when are these when are the years that we're setting this? How old are these kids gonna be? When we cast the kids, they have to be within one year younger or one year older. We can't have you know a 10-year-old playing a 14-year-old or anything like that, and they they would have like completely circumvented that issue.

SPEAKER_02 46:49

Okay, so obviously this movie ends with Ricky saying naughty in the hopes that it could you know create a sequel. Would you have watched that sequel if you were watching this in 1984 for the first time?

SPEAKER_00 47:01

No. I don't know. If it was in 1984 and I was of the age to see this movie, maybe. If I was myself back then, still then no. Like if I still had my thought processes. No, you don't. You're 80s Mac in this hypothetical.

SPEAKER_01 47:13

I don't know what 80s Mac would have thought, but I can tell you like what current Mac thinks.

SPEAKER_00 47:17

80s Mac is coked up at the theater on a Tuesday.

SPEAKER_01 47:20

Yep, that sounds just like good old 80s Mac. Because the the trouble I have with sequels, you know, they're usually worse, but anytime it's related to like a sibling who like suddenly takes on, you know, and I see this in superhero movies all the time where like the sibling of a bad guy is like, I'm gonna be a bad guy now because they killed my sibling. And it's just you know, it's boring, it's played out, it's just a way to keep making movies. And there's better ways of doing it. Like, you know, again, have him not die at the end of the movie and just have him reappear in another movie where he escaped from prison or something like that. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 47:52

I agree, Mac, but I don't think in the 80s it was as played out. But I could absolutely see you being like a purist slash contrarian who's like, you know, they always do this with sequels. I'm not a big fan of sequels. And we're like, Mac, we're gonna see it anyway, because we're all in 80s denim jackets in my head canon. Now, obviously that was a super distracting part of the ending, Chris, but I think we can all agree one of the worst parts of this movie is like the gratuitous nudity and sexual violence that exists and serves no purpose.

SPEAKER_02 48:20

Absolutely. I feel like I have expressed my displeasure for that, and I couldn't find a single other spot to get in that bad math. But undoubtedly, the levels of assault and male gaze in this movie is absolutely terrific and you should have no place in it.

SPEAKER_01 48:34

But there's ways of doing it if you're doing it for the right reasons, like if you're showing how brutal a serial killer is. We see this all the time in modern modern TV shows and stuff, right? Like you don't have to center the frame on the nipples. And that's the trouble I had with it is it wasn't like it's in, you know, it's in the frame because they happen to be topless or something. It's like he rips open their shirt and the frame like zooms in like a hundred times zoom right onto the nipples.

SPEAKER_02 49:00

It's an extreme close-up of just nip.

SPEAKER_00 49:02

Yeah. And also just like the number of times a blouse was ripped open, whether they were vibing or not, it was like, okay, how many times are we gonna do this exact shot? Like I wrote in my notes, I think four different times, and the last one was like, another couple fucking? Are you serious?

SPEAKER_01 49:17

I I think the way this should have gone, you know, with that with that first uh the first the mother one makes sense, right? Because that guy, that bad Santa was was absolutely brutal. But when we get later on, right, and and so we get the the douchey rapey co-worker, like they could have trimmed it down and had him like forcefully unbuttoning and not just ripping. And then they could have stopped there. It didn't actually have to come off.

SPEAKER_02 49:41

I don't think they even had to get to the unbuttoning. I think putting her on the table was enough.

SPEAKER_01 49:45

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 49:46

Yeah, just her saying no and him like jostling the arms, you get exactly what you need.

SPEAKER_01 49:50

That should have been enough of a trigger for him to snap and and take him out.

SPEAKER_00 49:54

But not enough of a trigger for the director to get off. It felt Quentin Tarantino-y, minus the toes.

SPEAKER_01 50:00

But I think the best part of the movie was Billy. And it's the story we get with Billy, it's how Billy won, like you mentioned, how how he's acted, how he's portrayed on screen. But like, you know, the story that we get as to why Billy becomes a killer, I think was good. I think that's the best part of the movie, and I'd love to see it without him actually killing anyone, just like him going through this trauma and dealing with it later in life would also be a really interesting drama to watch. Um, specifically because it's so absurd, it has to do with the killer Santa Claus, and how ridiculous is that. But his like progress throughout childhood and adolescence and becoming a teenager and like trying at every step, like trying like I have to be good, I can I can't be naughty and failing, and then you know, I I think we don't see a lot of self-punishment, but I think it's implied.

SPEAKER_02 50:45

Okay, I want to see a fan cut where we mess around with the years a little bit, we mess around with the timeline. I want this Billy and his origin story to be the Billy who's the killer in the original 1974 Black Christmas.

SPEAKER_00 51:02

Okay, wait, Chris, I could so get into this because you don't get anything as to the motivations of that Billy.

SPEAKER_02 51:08

Which I love.

SPEAKER_00 51:09

I know, but I don't.

SPEAKER_02 51:11

Well, think about the phone calls, and then he's like asking for someone to stop him and just ah, the like level of psychosis in that deranged killer. I all he I mean, he didn't say punishing, he didn't say naughty, but I feel like this could work so fucking well.

SPEAKER_01 51:29

Okay, so here's what we need, right? At the end, he needs to not die, he needs to go to jail. The final scene needs to be him picking up like the jail phone and acting like Billy from Black Christmas.

SPEAKER_02 51:38

Actually, no, it has to be him out because in the opening of the original Black Christmas, he's wearing like a black turtleneck and he's climbing into the house.

SPEAKER_01 51:47

That's right. That's right. So he needs to break out of prison.

SPEAKER_02 51:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:50

And they hit up a J. Crew.

SPEAKER_02 51:52

Or the movie just ends when they realize they killed the priest and they never see Billy go back to the orphanage.

SPEAKER_00 51:58

I'm honestly into this. Now, what I'm not sure that I'd be into is watching this movie again. I don't think I need to. I was pleasantly surprised once. Uh, I don't think you'll get me again. I think I'll hate the things I hated this time even more and enjoy the things I liked just the same. Um, but I am vaguely interested in seeing this remake, Chris. I I'd love to hear about like who is behind this, uh, if it's gonna be more male gaze or if it's like maybe we have a better team on this project. Um but I'm hesitant, so I think my hopes are gonna stay pretty low going into the reboot.

SPEAKER_01 52:35

I would be into it as well if it's gonna be quality-wise, kind of like the wrong turn effect, to where it's it's a pleasant surprise and and how good it is and how different it is from the original. But I have no reason to watch this again. I'll stick to Elf and Die Hard for my holiday feels.

SPEAKER_02 52:52

I could watch this again, not soon, but I really want to watch it to do a fan cut of those movies. I would potentially opt into watching the rest of this franchise on a wintry night when I need some bullshit on in the background for sure. There's also Silent Night from 2012 that is actually a like loose remake of this movie, and and I have to look into it, but I think they might lose some of the backstory from this and it goes in a different direction. So I think I'd be interested in seeing that one before the the reboot that comes out next year. But regardless, there is more to learn about this movie, so let's see what Mac has in store for us with factor fiction.

SPEAKER_01 53:34

Okay, I know Paris is gonna love this one, but the orphanage building that's you know in the film was an abandoned schoolhouse and had to renovate it to use it for the film.

SPEAKER_00 53:44

Okay, once again I am alone in fact or fiction, all on my own. I'm gonna say fact, Mac, because there were some shots, some wide shots of that building that looked dicey and questionable. So something was up.

SPEAKER_01 53:56

Something was up. Yeah, this is this is a fact. And of course, they had to get it demolished when they were done. I don't know why, but um, but yeah, after they were done with it, uh gotta knock it down. That seems excessive. Well, it was abandoned, so maybe there was like plans for to do that already. Who knows? Okay, maybe. I was gonna say, what is it, a Kleenex?

SPEAKER_00 54:14

Like, we're done with this building. Destroy it immediately.

SPEAKER_01 54:16

Yeah, number two.

SPEAKER_00 54:17

Our favorite, Sam Raimi was considered to direct this movie. God damn it. Let me can I Google Sam Raimi or is that against the rules?

SPEAKER_02 54:24

Evil Dead director.

SPEAKER_00 54:25

Evil Dead. Can I Google Evil Dead or is that against the rules?

SPEAKER_02 54:28

Basement bitch, tree molesting tree?

SPEAKER_00 54:30

Oh, the old versus new. Okay, um, this feels I don't know. Was Sam Raimi like well known at the time? This feels like a very like budget, like nobody was really involved in this movie kind of movie.

SPEAKER_02 54:41

So the Evil Dead came out in 1982, and this came out in 1984.

SPEAKER_00 54:46

Okay, so yeah, I think at that point Sam Raimi was too good for this movie. Well, this is actually a fact. Ah shit.

SPEAKER_01 54:52

That's okay though, because it is it is hard to like put yourself in the in the in the mind of people in the 80s and figure out what they would have done. Let me do a line real quick. Do a line off your denim jacket. Because apparently you you either wore only denim or leather. And we're always gay. Both of those are gay fabrics. Alright, so this movie opened the same weekend as a nightmare on Elm Street, and it briefly made more money than a nightmare on Elm Street.

SPEAKER_00 55:18

Okay. You're definitely exploiting my lack of knowledge about history and time.

SPEAKER_02 55:23

Okay, to be fair, a nightmare on Elm Street was absolutely released in 1984.

SPEAKER_00 55:27

Okay, they were released in the same year. Okay, I appreciate I appreciate that lifeline. Um, you know what? This sounds possible. Like maybe maybe the word hadn't gotten out yet about Nightmare on Elm Street.

SPEAKER_01 55:37

This one is a fact. It briefly did make more money. It was playing in twice as many theaters, but then the money like fell like like drastically low. And that was even before they pulled it, you know, due to all the outrage.

SPEAKER_00 55:50

Oh damn, that's interesting. I was gonna say, and then it tanked because they picketed it, but it tanked on its own before then.

SPEAKER_01 55:56

I wonder if it tanked when people just saw it and then told their friends.

SPEAKER_00 55:59

Oh yeah, maybe.

SPEAKER_01 56:00

Maybe it maybe it's not even that. They just described it and people were like, no.

SPEAKER_02 56:04

Well, also, young Johnny Depp. Come on.

SPEAKER_01 56:07

That's true, and a crop top, no less. This Santa just needed a crop top. Number four. The producers were not expecting the Killer Santa thing to be that big of a deal. They honestly thought like their portrayal of Roman Catholics were gonna be a bigger deal.

SPEAKER_00 56:20

That's a fiction, Mac. Just the way you delivered that question felt falsified. I feel like they knew what they were doing when they went into this.

SPEAKER_01 56:28

Honestly, though, this one's a fact as well.

SPEAKER_00 56:30

Oh shit.

SPEAKER_01 56:31

Right? It is it is kind of crazy because like immediately after they release it, of course, everyone like loses it about the Killer Santa thing. Um, but they wanted that controversy. The film opened first in the Midwest and the Northeast, where I think, as we all know, there's a ton of Catholics. Um, so they didn't open it up in like the South or the West where they would all laugh at Catholics because that's what they do. But yeah, they didn't think the whole Killer Santa thing was gonna be as big of a deal.

SPEAKER_02 56:56

Again, because they weren't the first to do it, they were just the first to get punished for it.

SPEAKER_01 57:00

That's interesting. And last stop, Paris. The axe that gets like stuck in the wall near Denise, so she's like leaning against the wall, that was a real axe.

SPEAKER_00 57:09

Um these have all been fact, Mac. And I'll be honest, I saw that axe in the background of a scene leading up to that, and I thought, oh, that axe is gonna come gonna come into play later. But I also thought that axe looks really small for it to be like a real like emergency fire axe. So I don't know. Um, my record at this point is garbage, so I'll just say fiction.

SPEAKER_01 57:32

I'm glad you said fiction because this is a fact. You bitch. Well, I have to have fun in some kind of way, and that has been fact or fiction.

SPEAKER_02 57:40

And there you have it, folks. Silent Knight, Deadly Knight from 1984, has earned two surprising slashes and one hack. Now we've certainly had a robust discussion here, but it doesn't end here by any means. We want to know what you think. Keep in mind, there are a number of ways you can reach out to us, starting with our website, hackerslash.live, or on our social media accounts, Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram.

SPEAKER_01 58:00

Now, if you've been naughty, you can also reach out to our Hackerslash Hotline. You can leave us a voicemail at 757-606-0128, or visit hackerslash.com.

SPEAKER_00 58:16

If you've enjoyed listening to this episode, consider becoming one of our patrons like our new friend Sabrina. You can visit patreon.com slash hacker slash to earn cool perks for as low as $1 a month.

SPEAKER_02 58:25

We'll see you next time, folks, and remember it's naughty to say bad things about old people.

SPEAKER_00 58:30

Bye.