192: Scream 4 (2011)

SPEAKER_05 0:04

Didn't you want to professionally stab people?

SPEAKER_02 0:07

Yeah, but like small stabs with a scalpel. But that's different.

SPEAKER_05 0:16

Greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hacker Slash. If you're joining us again, welcome back! Did you feel that? That charge that went between us just then? If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack, a total joke, a waste of time, or a slash.

SPEAKER_01 0:33

Totally killer, pun intended.

SPEAKER_05 0:35

We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, we're rating these movies with the perspective we've gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast. This week I'm joined by the gore lover Alexis. Hey everyone, the Cowardly Creeper Ryan. Wow, hi, it's been so long. This Cream Queen Paris.

SPEAKER_01 0:54

I mean, what am I supposed to do? Go to college, grad school, work?

SPEAKER_05 0:57

And a special guest, loyal patron, longtime listener, first-time podcaster, Freya. Freya, welcome. We're so stoked to have you. Now, obviously, there are such a wide variety of fans out there, so we'd love to know a bit more about you. What is your connection to the horror genre?

SPEAKER_00 1:14

Sure. So I'm obviously a fan of horror films. I feel like I would have to be to be on the show. But um I didn't grow up watching horror films at all. I was intensely shielded by my older brother and sister, who are 10 and 8 years older than me, respectively. So while they were watching the horror films, they were like afraid, get out of the room. We don't want to give you nightmares, or mum will be angry at us. So um I did, you know, no horror experience all throughout growing up, apart from one very scarring incident when I was in my bedroom. I was about seven years old, playing with my poly pockets, and I heard an almighty scream from downstairs. And so I ran down thinking, what's going on? Is everyone okay? Very brave actually for a seven-year-old. And um, it was my sister and her friends watching the signs. And the aliens had just come out, and so they were like, Roger, go ahead, go away, you're gonna get scared. So I ran away thinking, oh my god, science is the scariest film of the whole world. If it made my big sister scared, I am never watching signs, I'm never watching a horror film. And so for for years afterwards, um, if anyone brought up the topic of horror films, just sound like I, you know, knew what I was talking about, I would be like, Oh yeah, what about science? That's like the scariest film, right? And people are just like, What are you talking about? Science is not scary, you stupid little girl. I was about 15 or so and I got into horror films, and I just haven't looked back since.

SPEAKER_01 2:45

Okay, but science was scary.

SPEAKER_00 2:47

That one moment in science was scary.

SPEAKER_03 2:49

It really was. That one moment.

SPEAKER_01 2:51

When he walks by at the quinte?

SPEAKER_03 2:53

Always. No, under the under the floor. That's the under the door frame, like the Georgian. That part was terrifying.

SPEAKER_01 3:01

Oh yeah, that part too. It was scary at the time.

SPEAKER_05 3:04

Uh, we'll debate it whenever we cover signs.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

Yeah, one day.

SPEAKER_05 3:07

One day, very far away. Fred, you haven't turned back since you were 15, but what style of horror do you prefer now?

SPEAKER_00 3:14

Honestly, I anything goes. Anything goes. I'm open to any genre apart from I can't do any shark film. I'm terrified of sharks. Finding Nemo is a horror film for me. Oh my god. I can just about do shark tale. That's that's about my maximum. Even any films that like linger too much on ocean shots, I just have to look away. It's it's too much for me.

SPEAKER_04 3:37

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 3:37

Wow, Chris. But yes, any any genre, I'm particularly fond of slashes, but I I'm open to anything really.

SPEAKER_05 3:45

I love that. And what is your favourite horror movie of all time?

SPEAKER_00 3:48

I mean, I'd be a fake fan if I didn't say Scream. It's probably my number one comfort horror film, Low It Inside Out. But um I do love a lot of like Australian horror films as well. There are like a lot of cool ones. Like um Lake Mungo is a very cool kind of um ghost paranormal film, which is great. And The Loved Ones, which is a very spooky, gory, crazed prom queen killer film, which is amazing.

SPEAKER_01 4:18

Oh, I love that.

SPEAKER_00 4:20

And then uh a really insane Japanese film called Hausu as well, is in my circulation of top favorites. So you can see like all across the board. I I just love horror as a genre.

SPEAKER_01 4:33

Her tastes are international.

SPEAKER_05 4:34

A well-traveled woman. Alexis, we have some work to do for the lineup. I know, I've never heard of these. I feel ashamed.

SPEAKER_01 4:40

We need to diversify.

SPEAKER_05 4:42

Pretty much. Well, Freya, welcome on board. We're so stoked to have you now. Next month, we have an iconic slasher villain returning to the big screen, and Freya is hanging out with us as we prepare for that film by checking out the most recent entry in its franchise. But before we get down to business, though, we have some follow-up.

SPEAKER_01 4:59

Let's follow up on a movie. Okay, but actually, we recently reviewed a film by the title of The Pilgrim. Some of us were there to watch this. Uh, listeners, if you watched it, I'm sorry, but we did have to make you watch it so that you could vote in our poll and leave us some comments. And you did just that, and we thank you for that. Uh, our poll results are in, and only 62% of our listeners actually hacked that movie. 38% slashed it, which feels wrong.

SPEAKER_05 5:26

Or there were misclicks. We do love an accident around here.

SPEAKER_01 5:29

Never count out human error.

SPEAKER_05 5:31

Unreliable voting system, truly.

SPEAKER_02 5:33

Hey. I just can't trust anyone that doesn't hack any horror movies that are related to Thanksgiving because they're all horrible.

SPEAKER_03 5:41

Um, you didn't watch this one. It doesn't matter. It wasn't too bad.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

Ryan, I know that you would have hacked this.

SPEAKER_03 5:48

I feel a hundred percent confident that Pilgrim would have been a hack for me. She just hates that I put any sort of holiday-related movie in the lineup.

SPEAKER_02 5:56

You didn't make the movies. I'm not mad at you. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03 6:00

I really want to watch it though.

SPEAKER_02 6:01

Yeah, I think the holiday content is great for us to do. I think the movies that are related to especially Thanksgiving are just so bad.

SPEAKER_01 6:09

Listen, it wouldn't be hack or slash if we only reviewed slashes. We have to review some movies like this once in a while.

SPEAKER_02 6:17

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 6:18

And our patrons left up some comments. Rob, for one, had this to say. This one hurt. I have not liked any of these into the dark movies, but this might be the worst. Interesting concept, but terribly executed. Complete hack. Okay, but Rob, did you watch the Puka one? Because that one was very bad.

SPEAKER_05 6:35

I get the feeling he watched the Puka one.

SPEAKER_01 6:37

And for that I apologize. Gregory had this to say. This is 100% a slash. Those pilgrims were committed. That pool scene was fantastic. This is a good Thanksgiving film, but it's no Thankskilling, or Christy for Best Thanksgiving themed horror movie.

SPEAKER_03 6:53

Thank you, thank you, because I was the only one who slashed this, so now I don't feel so lonely on this island.

SPEAKER_01 6:58

Alexis, we know that Gregory is your burner account. And we have one last comment from Britney who said, I went into this open-minded, but let's be honest, this whole concept is pretty ridiculous. I must admit, it was slightly better than I expected it to be in some ways. I had never heard of Into the Dark, and with this being my first experience with it, I don't think I'll be delving into any more episodes. Despite some pleasant surprises, some good acting, enjoyable camera work in my opinion, some shock value and uniqueness, I draw the line at force-fed cannibalism. It was nasty and it made my stomach turn. Dad for Dinner was not what I needed to see on my TV. Maybe I'm a wimp, but it was a little too much for me. And because of this, it's a hack.

SPEAKER_05 7:33

You know what? I also didn't need to see Dad for Dinner, but it was arguably the most exciting point in the movie, so I don't know if I can be that mad at it.

SPEAKER_02 7:41

I would actually say that these responses make me wonder what I missed. So there's something here.

SPEAKER_01 7:46

There you go. That's the nicest thing to be said about this movie. Finally, we have one new patron to thank, and their name is Craig. Craig, thank you so much for your support. Welcome to our Patreon family. I hope to be reading your comments on a future episode. And that is our follow-up.

SPEAKER_05 8:02

Well, four years before tragically passing away in 2015, Wes Craven gifted the world another entry in an iconic franchise he started in the mid-90s. A decade after the franchise's third film released in theaters, production began with Wes Craven back in the saddle as director. He stated, though, he wouldn't have returned unless the screenplay was as good as the original film. Now to accomplish this, Kevin Williamson re-emerged to shape a story after being absent from the franchise for 14 years, and his story shows us what has happened in the 10 years since that last film, and how Sydney Prescott's healing is tested when she returns home to Woodsboro. This week, we're talking about Scream 4. Now, who's seen this one before?

SPEAKER_03 8:41

So I'm actually really upset because I've never seen this one. And for as much as I love the Scream franchise, it really surprises me. But I realized this came out when I turned 21. So clearly I wasn't watching movies. I was out getting drunk all the time. So movies was not in my repertoire during this time. That's funny. That tracks.

SPEAKER_02 9:01

Yeah. I actually didn't realize there was a Scream 4. And I'll be honest, I think that it's possible they only made this because Scream 4, the number 4, fits into their logo really well. Because when I saw it, I was like, oh, obviously, like of course they would make that because the A is a four. It works great. And I think that's maybe the only reason they made this movie, but I didn't even know it existed.

SPEAKER_01 9:20

This is shocking to me personally. I did not see this in theaters like I had hoped, but I did see it a few years later when I was living in New York, because I also somehow missed that it had even come out. And I was like, wait, there's another scream? Let's watch that, even though I hadn't seen the second or the third one at the time. I just heard that it was very iconic in a lot of ways. So I was like, let me check this out. What are all the gays of Twitter about with this movie?

SPEAKER_00 9:44

I have definitely seen this film before many times. Um I did watch them sequentially, which I'm quite pleased about. Um even though you know there's not much mention of the sequels in it, so I don't think you're missing anything if you do jump from maybe the first one to the fourth one. But yes, I've seen this one a lot. But I think I watched it two years after it had come out, so I didn't get to see it in cinemas as I was still in my scardy cat phase, and I did not have any intention to see any horror film in cinemas, but I really wish I could go back and see this one on the big screen.

SPEAKER_05 10:18

I'm actually really excited that I accidentally saw this movie in theaters. Not only in theaters though, the first showing of it being available, and this was back when they really used to do a midnight release instead of just like a 7 p.m. the day before. I had a a time in my life, one of my like good friends on my ship who I called the patron saint of triathlons, and she was from Vegas, she was crazy, she was a whole big personality. She came home with me one one time for my birthday, and it was New Year's, and we parted ways, and she showed up sleeping on my front porch covered in sand the next day. She was a wild time.

SPEAKER_01 10:55

What?

SPEAKER_05 10:55

I know. She used to like wake me up in the like 5 a.m. to like go get breakfast at at iHop. It was a whole thing. Uh so she was like a source of adventure in my life, and one day she just called me up and said, Hey, you like horror movies, right? I'm like, hell yeah. Mind you, I've been like down and out also recently, 21, not really paying attention to movies at the time. But she's like, Okay, cool. Well, we're gonna go see a movie tonight. I was like, cool, all right, what time? She's like, midnight. I'm like, fuck, I work at like three in the morning. How am I gonna do this? But we did, and it was a great time. This actually was one of the only ones I actually saw in theaters at the time. 1996, when the original scream scream came out, I was a child and my siblings went to see it, but I had to wait for it to be available for home rental or purchase and make our jiffy pop and enjoy in the coziness of a living room. So I cannot wait to get that theater experience again in January.

SPEAKER_02 11:45

I feel like Scream is the franchise that I wish I've been able to see in theaters more than most others, especially because the first one, like the first Scream, it's like I'd I would do anything almost to see that in theaters like for the first time. And I think it carries through to this one too.

SPEAKER_05 12:01

That's fair. Would you watch it in theaters now, even though it's not your first time watching it?

SPEAKER_02 12:05

Yeah, I'm actually really sad because there's this little theater here that before Halloween in October did all these reruns of all these great movies, including like Halloween and stuff, and I miss them. And I am interested in hunting down some like significant movies that matter to me and seeing them in theaters. Like The Shining, I want to see in theaters so bad.

SPEAKER_03 12:25

Oh, that would be a terrific one to actually watch in theaters. So I figure this movie would be a typical scream movie, a Who-Done It, multiple players in the game, obviously filled with meta, lots and lots of it. But I was excited because this being through with this being 11 years away from Scream 3, I was like, oh, there's a lot that's gone on in horror since then. So I was excited to see what references they would be making in this movie.

SPEAKER_02 12:57

Yeah, I think it's pretty simple. I mean, I don't know. I think Scream is fairly predictable in what you're gonna get when you're watching a Scream movie, right? Like, it's gonna be a bunch of stabbing, uh, a lot of meta conversation, a lot of like what I would say is corny dialogue. Okay, okay. What did you think I was gonna say?

SPEAKER_03 13:18

Enjoyable dialogue. What could come up for corny?

SPEAKER_02 13:21

Corny but amazing. No, I mean, I I will be honest, I I do find the dialogue to often be corny, and and I just went into this going for the same thing. Again, like I'm just here to see Ghostface run around. There's something about his outfit that is just makes it almost comical, but not when he's running around stabbing people. That's all I wanted.

SPEAKER_01 13:40

I remember when I first w heard about this movie, obviously the gays were all talking about it. They're like, oh my god, iconic, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, all right, gays, what's up? Um, and I had not seen any of the other scream movies because the first one to me was like such an iconic piece of film that I was like, well, the sequels are obviously gonna be trash, right? Like, there's no way I famously hacked Scream 2, but I've since come around. I actually really enjoy Scream 2 and Scream 3. But at the time I was like kind of reluctant. I was like, okay, what are they gonna do here? That's like so gag-worthy that's like everyone got everyone talking about it. So I went into it with hesitation, but I was vaguely optimistic going in the first time.

SPEAKER_00 14:19

Yeah, so when I got to Scream 4, obviously there was a time jump of 11 years. And my first thought was, well, the technology is gonna be completely different because it's part of the appeal with Scream is it's that you pick up the phone, you don't know who it is. Whereas obviously now they're a smartphone, so you have, you know, your contacts will pop up and it'll be, oh yeah, it's you know, Jenny calling me. So that was something I was really anticipating with Scream 4 would be what are they going to do? Like what suspicion elegans are they going to get into to divert your suspicions, you know, because you can't assume it's going to be anyone when you can trace it back to a specific person. Um that and I knew that Kevin Williamson, the writer of the first and second ones, uh, was coming back for Scream 4. So that was something I was looking forward to because Scream 3, while it had its moments, it leant a bit too far into comedy for me. So I was expecting with Kevin Williamson returning, maybe something a bit more serious.

SPEAKER_05 15:17

And I think those really fair expectations. I love that you point out the difference in technology because I remember walking in thinking, okay, are they gonna like want a stranger calls of this shit? When a stranger calls, the original film, there's like the first few minutes and the last few minutes that are absolutely terrifying. In the 2006 remake, I'm like, all right, how are they gonna pull this off? And I was really pleasantly surprised to see the tricks that they pulled to be able to do that, even with cell phone technology being in relative infancy around that time. And I remember thinking, alright, if they pull this off, sure. I just hope this feels more conclusive and and a little bit less of the campiness that we got in some of the previous movies. Not because I have anything against the tone of those films, but I remember hearing that this was gonna go back to Woodsboro, and I was like, all right, I want to see uh Woodsboro in all its glory. I want to see the high school. I want to see something that brings me back to like the original spirit of the film. And I gotta say, the first time I watched it and every time since then, I've still felt that, but it feels refreshingly modern. It doesn't feel like it's trying to live too much in the past. I love the the directions that they take the meta approach, even to the iconic opening of this film and the ways that it approaches meta layering within that. This was one of those that just felt completely entertaining from start to end without feeling too clumsy along the way.

SPEAKER_02 16:42

You know, my biggest surprise was actually something that you guys already have talked about, both Freya and Chris, and it's the technology in this movie because I didn't actually realize how big of a gap there is. And so as this movie starts, I'm like, wait a minute, they're like, they're like addressing things a little bit differently. Again, like stuff like caller ID, it's just a different vibe. And I think the technology, at least at the first half of this movie, um, and and some of the things that they reference that are more modern, I think it gives a very different feeling to the movie for me, where it doesn't feel like like the classic 90s thing that I love about Scream.

SPEAKER_03 17:17

Yeah, Chris, you mentioned that opening scene and seeing as I hadn't seen this before. I was surprised. I mean, it really grabbed my attention and it really carried out throughout the entire movie. Although there were two times that I did kind of wiggle my mouse because I was watching this on my laptop to see the time, and I was like, oh my gosh, we're only 40 minutes in. This is a lot of action. I like this. Yeah, this was not a tight 120. No, I was totally fine with this. And then when I thought I was getting towards the end, I jiggled my mouse again and I was like, oh wow, there's still 22 minutes left. So it didn't feel long, but I was happy that every time I looked that there was more because I was like, I need more, I love this, I want more. So I was really entertained throughout this entire movie.

SPEAKER_01 18:01

While watching this, I felt very at home. It was it felt like a proper remake in that it brought the same vibes as the first scream. Um, luckily for me, you didn't need to see the second or third ones to really enjoy this one or feel at home here. It felt like there was a character uh that was like a cipher for each of the original cast, and I found it to be very interesting to see how a meta horror movie played the remake game.

SPEAKER_02 18:27

But don't you think that they already played that game in the second one?

SPEAKER_01 18:30

Hadn't seen the second one.

SPEAKER_02 18:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 18:32

In hindsight, they did it every time.

SPEAKER_00 18:34

I mean, that's part of the appeal with Scream, is you kind of know what you're going in for. You know you're gonna get some meta shit, especially with the fourth one, because that's what they're parodying in the opening scene. They're talking about how the further you get into a franchise, the more shit the sequel is. Um I got a bit anxious actually because they talk about Stab 5 having time travel, and so then I had a whole existential crisis thinking they're not gonna try and pull that shit in the fifth scream, are they? Please.

SPEAKER_01 19:03

I thought the same thing. They could though.

SPEAKER_02 19:06

Don't worry, this is not Jason.

SPEAKER_01 19:07

I feel like they could do it in a way that I wouldn't be mad at.

SPEAKER_02 19:10

Ghost Face in space, SpaceX.

SPEAKER_03 19:12

Would still pay to see it though. I feel like a lot of people would. Freya, you're such a writer.

SPEAKER_01 19:17

Honestly, while watching this, I was surprised at how much I wasn't mad about it. Because I was expecting to in some way be mad about it. I was like, what are they gonna what could they possibly do to such a sacred, iconic movie that isn't gonna make me irritated in some way? And I was like honestly going into it like with a chip on my shoulder, like, yeah, but you're gonna botch the ending or something, or like, yeah, this is this something stupid's gonna happen. And i it didn't. It didn't happen. And I was like, okay, fine, you got me.

SPEAKER_05 19:48

That's a lot of high praise coming from Paris, and I can see why you'd be surprised by that, especially given you know, this movie in the course of its runtime has a lot of opportunity to make some missteps that it ultimately doesn't make. It feels like it goes right up to the edge of being ridiculous and then backs right off of it, which I think shows a level of restraint that I really admire about Kevin Williamson's writing. But one of the biggest things that surprised me, and this is more so a surprise on the rewatch, is how much this movie holds up. So we know that obviously technology has evolved so much since the first time this movie came out in 1996, and then we have this particular film in 2011. But the concept of live streaming and seeing, you know, look at Robbie's headset and think of like where we are with like Snapchat spectacles, you know what I mean? It felt like it was just on like the leading edge of okay, this is what we're gonna look for in the f in the years to come, and it felt goofy. I remember feeling feeling like, okay, this guy's no one's gonna wear this shit on their head, live streaming it all the time. But yet here we are in 2021, and this is a reality. And I I admire how much this movie, even if the the technology looks clunky, I appreciate that it just continued to kind of move in in a pioneering direction versus just re-treading the same old ground.

SPEAKER_03 21:06

Yeah, I thought it was interesting that it took to me a more serious note, and I think that had to do with Ghostface not tripping as much in this. But I was surprised because I feel like we've watched so many movies, especially recently, that have like a star-studded cast, and it usually is not fulfilled by the storyline of the movie. But I feel like with this, it was almost like a perfect little highlight that you have, right? I don't know, the cute little gray highlight or something that's like in your hair, and it's just the cutest little thing that adds to the whole effect of your hair. I feel like I'm purist right now talking about hair. But it was just intertwined in a really good way that it didn't take away from the story, it added to it, but not added too much. So that's what surprised me is this cast, but that it didn't take away from the plot line of the story or anything like that. So you weren't distracted. That's what I was going for.

SPEAKER_01 22:02

Alexis, I love that analogy because my Aunt Judy has that exact streak of grey in her hair and it just looks so good.

SPEAKER_00 22:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 22:09

That was his cast.

SPEAKER_00 22:10

Something that surprised me about this film was how in all the other films I couldn't really tell who the killer was going to be, and in this one I clocked it from the beginning.

SPEAKER_04 22:22

Oh my god, really?

SPEAKER_00 22:24

Yeah, it's it it shocked me because I just had this intense gut feeling from the beginning. I've never had that with the other Scream films. But watching the way it kind of carried out throughout the film it just you know, it was interesting that I could pick that up. I don't know if that's a something that other people felt as well, whether it was certainly in one way. But I felt like there weren't as many plausible suspects in this. I wasn't keeping my eye on too many people. There were a couple of people, but one in particular I was zoned in on and watching all their moves and you know it my suspicion came to fruition. So that was something that that did surprise me in the end.

SPEAKER_01 23:05

Was that disappointing?

SPEAKER_00 23:06

Uh not at all. Well, actually, when I first watched it, I was disappointed. Um but that's because it contained a certain trope that I really don't care for in horror films and in general media, but maybe we can talk about that more later. Um but I've really come to love that now, I think, when you grow up and you watch more, you know, you expand your horizons and you're like, oh, in this context that makes complete sense.

SPEAKER_02 23:32

So yeah, I think you have a point about this one and the way they treated like the possible suspects, are it's a big difference. It's it's usually scream movies are like, here's eight people we're gonna pretend like might be the people. This one doesn't feel that way, but I've also just kind of resolved to like not trying to figure it out along the way because I hate being wrong. I have control issues, and like I don't I'm just gonna let it be who it is, and I definitely I don't know, I can see where it would be much easier in this one to identify it.

SPEAKER_05 24:02

Yeah, I actually felt like I hit a point where the first time this movie in in this movie when we have like our antagonist revealed, I was pleasantly surprised because I appreciated the quality of performance, but watching it now, I'm like, mmm, this doesn't hold up the way that I that I thought it would. But one thing that really did disappoint me is this really unnecessary bit of romance that we get thrown into this movie in the third act. It kind of comes out of nowhere, it doesn't feel believable, it feels really forced, and it's something that I think, you know, take this little bit out, even better of a movie.

SPEAKER_02 24:38

Oh, well, if it's the bit I'm thinking about, I feel like it's intentional and it speaks to the character's character.

SPEAKER_01 24:43

Yes, I agree with Ryan, actually.

SPEAKER_02 24:46

It was a it was a it was a pawn, it was a chess piece.

SPEAKER_01 24:49

Yes, very that.

SPEAKER_02 24:51

Not real romance. But you God, we have so much to get into, we'll wait for that.

SPEAKER_05 24:57

Well, I'll say this the kiss exchange between those two people, and the most frightening part of this movie, if you're not wrong.

unknown 25:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 25:05

I don't care how chaste or brief it was, it was disgusting. It was really gross.

SPEAKER_02 25:10

It was very uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_01 25:11

But Chris, did anything else in this movie scare you? Because I feel like in this movie, it gave me a little bit of the original scream where I was like, ooh, I don't want to get stabbed. Because the stabbings in this were vicious. I feel like the gore was so heightened that I was like, ooh, this is a lot. I don't want this to happen to me specifically.

SPEAKER_05 25:27

I did I didn't feel that, but I think it's because as a slasher enthusiast, I'm so desensitized to the stabbing of things, you know what I mean? It has quality stabs, 10 out of 10 technique. Obviously, I don't want to be stabbed, but I think this movie is of a higher caliber than the first two sequels that we get in terms of like Ghostface Antics and the spookiness of him, but I don't know that it's something that I would even remotely consider frightening. Like I'd feel very comfortable if someone uh wasn't into horror movies very much or they got easily scared. I'd have absolutely no hesitation to put this on. Like I don't think it'd it'd scare the shit out of them by any means.

SPEAKER_03 26:09

I don't think it'd scare them, but it's definitely gory enough. I know we'll unpack that later. But I know we've talked about it previously where it's this ghost face just reminds me of when I was trigger-treating and everyone was this for Halloween, and it's just an eerie thing, but not frightening, especially not in this one.

SPEAKER_01 26:27

Freya, did you think this movie was scary at all, even remotely?

SPEAKER_00 26:30

When I was younger, yes, because I hadn't seen as much. But now when you're re-watching it through the lens of someone who has seen, you know, maybe scarier and gorier. I have watched Terrifier now. You know, looking back at it, it's not hugely scary. There is a setup to a kill that I think would be quite terrifying, you know, kind of home invasion style. Um but actually the scariest part of this film is actually just like a uh it's to do with a car, and it's not actually to do with any kill, but there is a significant jump that always gets me every time I watch this film, even though I've seen it hundreds of times by now.

SPEAKER_02 27:07

I think, Freya, the jump that you're talking about may be also the one that got me, although I'm having this thing where I can't remember what happened, but there's like a jump scare has nothing to do with a kill in this that really got me because I was watching this with headphones on and I had just like glanced away from the screen. I think I was opening a door and I was like, oh my god, like jumped almost out of my skin, but it had nothing to do with Ghostface. So I'm not so sure. I don't know. Also, I I do just want to go on record to say a weird thing, which is that I I don't ever want to be stabbed, but I do really want to know what it feels like to be stabbed. What? Because Paris, you were talking about like I don't want to be stabbed like that. Like, I I don't want to be stabbed, but I do really want to know what it feels like to be stabbed. Like, what is that same with being shot? Like, I want to know what it feels like so that when you see it happen to people, you can understand.

SPEAKER_01 28:00

This is unhinged.

SPEAKER_02 28:01

Didn't you want to professionally stab people? Yeah, but like small stabs with a scalpel, but that's different. I don't want to do I definitely don't want to stab anyone. I don't want to know what that feels like. But don't you ever just like wonder, like, okay, when you like see someone get shot on like a TV show or something, you're like, how much does it actually hurt?

SPEAKER_01 28:20

Not once in my life.

SPEAKER_00 28:21

You know how you can have simulators for people to like feel what birth feels like? I think we need to get that for for stabbing for those who are so inclined to discover the sensation of stabs.

SPEAKER_02 28:32

Right. There was a performance artist once that wanted to know what it felt like to get shot so much that they had someone shoot them as like a art, quote unquote.

SPEAKER_01 28:41

Was it Maria Ambrovic? It sounds like her brand.

SPEAKER_02 28:44

It is her brand. It was someone around this a similar time. But I don't know. I guess I'm just crazy. I'm fine with that.

SPEAKER_01 28:51

Ryan, I don't think you're crazy. I think this speaks to the deep level of empathy that you are inherently capable of.

SPEAKER_02 28:57

Right, right. I just want to understand. I want to know what it feels like.

SPEAKER_00 29:00

The amount of people who died in this film from just one stab, obviously it must hurt quite a lot.

SPEAKER_01 29:05

So they're overreacting.

SPEAKER_03 29:08

So this movie to me sets itself apart from the franchise. Although it is referencing the first one, I think it stands on its own, you know, especially these certain scenes. There's a party scene and the commentary, the actions that are done. I I just think it it's original for what it is.

SPEAKER_01 29:29

I can get behind that, Alexis. It felt like this movie did enough to stand itself apart from the first one, the first time I saw it, and since I've seen the rest of them now, it still feels like a standout. And I feel like part of that is something that I never really realized until Freya was mentioning it earlier, and that's how they utilize the technology in a way that still totally works, which is by like using the phones of other people in the movies because you've already killed those people in the movie, and that's how you can get away with making these calls from these devices and it not being like a huge plot hole. And I feel like that attention to detail and the way they navigated all of these things was done in such a way that I was like, you know what? And of course, the ending, very original to me. But it felt like this movie somehow did it again.

SPEAKER_02 30:14

You know, I have to be honest here, this movie doesn't feel original to me. I understand it's a sequel, it comes later. I get it. It has a it has a piece of origin, I understand, but I mean uh even to something like Cop Sitting Outside the House, like it it doesn't say original to me. It does say different, but not original.

SPEAKER_00 30:37

I think that any fourth entry into a franchise would probably struggle with some originality, especially when it is slightly screamake territory in the way that it is mirroring the original in many ways. And that was reflected in the second one as well. But I feel like in this scenario, it's back in Woodsboro, it's back with the younger people, you know, high school age people, whereas in the second one it was college age. So you immediately have that comparison. It's back in the same town, it's the same age group. But I think that the way that this film handles Sydney's kind of rise from being a victim and her reclaiming that, and then but she's so brave in this film. You get to see her be brave in a way that she is defending her actual family in this situation. She's defending the younger people because she's trying to prevent these things from happening to them that have scarred her so much. And I think that is something that would mean this film has some originality because you're taking this character who has seen trauma. She's being placed back into the exact same scenario she was in, and she's fighting to try and keep these other young people from experiencing the things that she has done. I don't know if that is explored in other horror franchises. Maybe I need to scope out a little bit more. But that feels original to me, I think.

SPEAKER_05 32:07

I think it also m just makes it really high quality, right? And we've talked in you know in recent years, uh even within the last year on this podcast, there are some uh some remakes or some later entries in a franchise that hearken back to the original film. And I've talked about how it it rhymes. Like the events of the first and the current film that we're talking about are so in sync with each other, but they complement each other in a really beautiful way. And I think the cool thing about this, you know, the originality of it can can feel like a mixed bag in terms of like, okay, we could write this down on paper and say, seen that, seen that, seen that, seen that, seen that, seen that. But I think the cool thing is that the feeling you get from that is what's original, because the first film felt very of its time. Ahead of its time for the horror genre, but of its time, of its modern society. And then we go on through the second one, and then the third film felt ahead of its time in terms of what it was trying to tackle. And this fourth film feels like it takes us back in time, and it's a journey through time, and then culminating with that ending that feels like, okay, this is what's to come. This is what we don't as a society realize is happening now and will continue to happen in terms of just people's behavior with the technology that surrounds us. And I think this film's treatment of taking us on a journey through time from Sydney's past drama all the way to you know the final act of this film, it's completely original. And the ending is such a strong, strong piece of evidence of that. This is an ending that when I first saw it in theaters, I was like, oh shit. It got a little campy. It gets a little excessive, you know what I mean? It gets funny at a certain point, but it's it feels almost explosive. And I really love, I really love the motivations behind this one. It finally doesn't feel like sexist. It finally doesn't feel like, all right, let's just hate on Sydney's mom anymore. You know what I mean? It feels fresh and different.

SPEAKER_02 34:10

Chris, I am totally on board with what you're saying about the motivations, because the motivations in this one do feel very different to me. However, I think the campiness of the ending is a is a bit much for me. There's some parts that are a little too over the top. I don't think it's a bad ending at all. And I think it's like the ending that we needed for this movie to s again, like another point of setting it aside from its predecessors. But there's definitely a couple moments where I was like, girl, goodbye.

SPEAKER_01 34:39

Chris, you used one of my words, and if there's anything we know about me, it's that I love an explosive ending. When I first saw this, I was instantly obsessed. And to be fair, the ending of this movie in turn launched quite a catalog of content of the same variety from this particular actor playing a very similar role in a couple different projects, um, which obviously I was subsequently obsessed with as a result. Um, but the ending of this movie to me felt so fresh, and it was something I personally didn't see coming at all. And the levels to which they took it, I was like, no, no. Oh my god. And I was really just tripping the whole time. Now, Ryan, to your point, there is a point where it's sort of like an end-end where they kind of take it to a different level where I was like, okay, do we need this? But this time around, I actually recognized that a character even acknowledged that in the moment, and I was like, okay, you know what? I'm not mad about it. They brought me back around in the end.

SPEAKER_03 35:37

I too like an explosive ending. Sorry, I had to say that. So to me, it was an unexpected ending. Um, Freya, I did not know who the killers were, so I think I was playing this Who'd Done It the entire time. So up until it got to the ending, I was like, wow, this is not what I was expecting. So I was super surprised, and I liked some of the nuances it had towards the original, which I really appreciated.

SPEAKER_00 36:08

So, yes, I think the ending is just ridiculous and fun, and that brings in the campy element that I think maybe was slightly missing throughout the first two acts of the film. I feel that campiness was missing in that kind of pulpy, ridiculous way that it is in Scream Three and partially in Scream Two as well. I think that the motivations of the killer make it that explosive ending because of the uh the level of desperation. And I think that that is something that the writers are desperately trying to critique. Like why it is this extreme is because the killer's desires and goals are so ridiculous. And I think that is possibly uh intentional thing to show how certain uh negative traits and desires can manifest in ways that will just end up messy and dreadful and you will never win from them. Life lessons with Freya.

SPEAKER_05 37:07

Yeah, I feel I feel like I'm here to have my life enriched by Freya. It's what I do. Well, speaking of desperation, let's go ahead and get on to our ratings now. Before we reveal our scores for Scream 4 from 2011, Alexis, how many people died in this film? Wouldn't be a slasher without having 12 bodies in this movie.

SPEAKER_03 37:27

But what about the animal report?

SPEAKER_02 37:28

I feel like all the Scream movies have had clean animal reports. I may be wrong, but this one's definitely clean.

SPEAKER_05 37:33

Well, let's hope that holds true in January. Now let's go ahead and get onto our ratings then. Scream 4 from 2011.

SPEAKER_03 37:40

Is it a hack or a slash? So I feel like I'm gonna be pretty short with this because this franchise can do no wrong for me. I love the campy tone of this entire franchise, but I also like how serious this was. And Freya, you touched on this, and it was the development of Sydney that was in particular something that I loved about this movie. And I feel like you do not get those in the other installments. And I don't know, something about this is super original. So I felt like I was just watching the fourth installment. I didn't have to see or hear about anything other than what needed to be referenced, and I appreciated that. And I was highly entertained. I mean, there's nothing like looking at the runtime squiggling, wiggling your mouse around and being like, oh man, I'm only 40 minutes in. Because I feel like that's when we're watching movies on the podcast where I'm at. But this movie, I was like, yes, I'm only 40 minutes in. I've got, you know, a while to go. And I love that feeling. And for that, I have to give this movie a slash.

SPEAKER_00 38:42

I think that Scream 4 is a return to form for the franchise. Uh, because I think, as I've already said, um the third one and parts of the second one relied a bit too heavily on the comedy aspect. And while I appreciate the comedy because of course it's going to be funny, it's you know taking the piss out of itself constantly. But I like it when it is paired with that eeriness, it's when it's back to Woodsboro, it's a small town, you cannot trust anyone around you. Whereas in Hollywood, you know you're not supposed to trust anyone, and even at college you don't know who the these people are. Whereas in a small town, you feel like you know everyone, and that is what I find the scariest. Um and I think the the new cast. I think they all hold up really well with the mainstays because we know that Nev Campbell is going to be amazing, we know Courtney Cox is going to be amazing, we know that David Arquette is there. But I think that all these aspects combined create a really, really fun film, and this is a supreme slash for me.

SPEAKER_01 39:44

Ooh, Titan with the Coven reference. Freya's the next supreme, everyone. It's time for me to retire from the pod. Freya, I totally agree with literally everything you said, and you said it in a much better way than I could have. So I'm gonna make mine brief. This movie starts out with Arya from Pretty Little Liars and Darcy from Degrassi. And if you didn't know that that was gonna be a slash from me right off the bat, this movie felt like I wrote a scream movie. And very rarely do I say it feels like a movie that I would write. I'm jealous I didn't write this. I'm upset I wouldn't get to be a part of it, since apparently we're casting gay actors in straight roles. Because so many parts of this movie feel one, ridiculous and over the top, but two, like such a good comment on like the dark places we've gotten to as a culture and as a society. And the way the movie like truly drives off the rails at the end is was so satisfying to me personally, especially with the performance we get from our ghost face, who I will say, of all ghost faces, this is my favorite ghost face. And that's saying a lot because I truly love the gay tension from our originals. Um, but this movie's a slash. There's so much about it to love. The performances across the board are solid, uh, and there's really very little for me to critique about this movie. When it comes to worst part later on, I'm gonna be reaching.

SPEAKER_02 41:04

I'm gonna be honest here. I do feel like I need to defend what I'm about to say, but I'm here to be honest. I'm here to be myself, okay? And I do judge movies from a place of hack until proven otherwise. Because most movies are hacks. Maybe that's not a true fact, but that's what it feels like. And for me, I really, really love Ghostface. I love Scream. I really enjoy the experience. I would say that this is one of the rare times where campiness works for me. And sometimes it goes a little bit far. And for me, this one is a little too far. This one is a little corny to me. It kind of feels like the corniness that I felt from the third one. Uh, not that they're the same and for the same reasons, because I think Freya has a good point about like the comedy element that came in too heavy. This is not the same in that way, but I don't know. Uh I found myself like spending a lot of time thinking about like, I say I love Ghostface. Do I feel like Chris, when she watches a Halloween movie, like maybe it's not the best Halloween movie, but still gonna watch it, still gonna really enjoy seeing the killer. And in this instance, I was just kind of like, meh. And I think a lot of it has to do with like the first chunk of this movie. After the opening scene, there's a big chunk of just like, I don't care about this, and I don't know. I feel bad about hacking this, which is not fair. You guys are all pressuring me, but I don't know. I miss like the the dark commentary about where we are as a society that Kaparis just talked about. I didn't see that part of the movie. I don't know what the dark commentary was. Like, I understand the elements that could have contributed to it, but it I didn't get that feeling from this movie. I think it was a little bit too self-referential for me. Like the whole movie inside of a movie thing was just like, okay, I've seen you do that so many times. Like literally four times. Like it's a lot of times. But I don't know. I I think I just lost like a lot of the excitement of Ghostface and like the uncertainty that like it's gonna be someone that we don't know, and like every time he called, I was just like, well, like it's another call from Ghostface. And maybe I just wasn't in the mood for Ghostface today. I don't know. I really want to be the person that slashes all of the scream movies, but I have to be honest. So this is a hack for me. But it's just my personal feelings. I don't think it's like a particularly bad movie. I just didn't love it. It didn't excite me.

SPEAKER_05 43:30

Well, to be clear, Paris also hacked a screen movie, so don't feel like you're doing something unprecedented.

SPEAKER_01 43:35

Yeah, I haven't even slashed them all.

SPEAKER_02 43:37

I don't want to be like Paris.

SPEAKER_01 43:39

Fair.

SPEAKER_02 43:40

I want to be the person that's like, I love all the screen movies.

SPEAKER_05 43:43

Like, I want to be Freya, okay? I expected something else tonight based on the text I got early on in her watch experience yesterday. I was sending some funny things. They were great. And they didn't seem like I hate this movie funny things. Because Ryan has like three levels of funny it's funny when she loves something, funny when she loves something. Like just moderately enjoying it, and funny when she absolutely hates it and thinks it's hot garbage and wishes she could just turn it off.

SPEAKER_02 44:06

And she was really in middle ground there yesterday. I sent two comments. One was, Am I overthinking it or did the people who made it underthink it? Because that's how I feel about camp. Oh. And the second one was Deputy Judy could have played Pennywise.

SPEAKER_00 44:20

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 44:21

That's so mean, but that's so correct.

SPEAKER_01 44:23

That is hateful.

SPEAKER_02 44:25

There's a specific scene where I like slightly cross-eyed and like girl. But I'm just saying, I don't think either of those really hinted at me loving this movie. Her coming out of the dark didn't do it for you.

SPEAKER_01 44:37

Oh my god, so funny. That was literally a Pennywise scene.

SPEAKER_05 44:40

It was.

SPEAKER_00 44:41

She should have had a balloon.

unknown 44:43

I know.

SPEAKER_05 44:44

Well, Ryan, thank you for that balance. I feel like, you know, there's a lot of things that you can say about Scream 4, and I think so much of it has already been said very well before me. But I think when it comes down to it, this movie is just fun. It doesn't disappoint. The last movie in Scream 3 was ahead of its time in terms of its messaging, but it really missed the mark in some of its tone. And while I really, really enjoyed it, I realized how that was like an imperfect moment for that movie to arrive. But I feel like this felt like let's go back to the beginning. This felt like let's walk down memory lane, but also carve our own path along the way. And I think the performances that we get in here are outstanding. I think some of the reveals that we get, you know, especially as we get down towards some of the motivations behind our killer, I thought they were pretty great. And I think it's something that makes this movie worthwhile and honestly even boosts its rewatchability. This is such a perfect time to revisit this movie and revisit this franchise before we get started into Scream 5 next year. But ultimately, Wes Craven, Kevin Williamson, A Match Made in Heaven, this is a slash. And with that, Scream 4 from 2011 has earned four slashes and one hack. Now you can find this movie streaming online, so go ahead and check it out. Then join us in the second half so we can hear Ryan struggle for a best part. We'll see you in a bit.

SPEAKER_01 46:41

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SPEAKER_05 47:06

Welcome back, folks. We are now entering the spoiler zone for Scream 4, which is earning four slashes and one hack. Now we have a lot to get to here, but before we get into the specifics of our ratings, we do have the matter of gore to attend to. Alexis, what's the gore score for this movie?

SPEAKER_03 47:20

Usually I ask you guys if you agree with me or not. This week I'm not because I'm very confident in giving this a high gore score. Pretty sure that it didn't fall in the medium. There was a lot of stabbing, and there was a lot of blood, and I love that. I feel like you don't get that enough in the Scream franchise, but this one you got it, and I loved it.

SPEAKER_02 47:40

Yeah, there was a a room covered in blood that I was like, uh, are we watching Freddie? Like, do we change franchises here?

SPEAKER_03 47:49

Just slightly. There's plenty of kills in this movie, so hopefully we won't repeat any, but we might. So I want to hear y'all's uh favorite kill.

SPEAKER_02 47:58

I have to go for what I think is probably like the easy favorite kill, and I bet you guys have better ones, so I'm gonna take this one now. It's Jill getting technically not when she gets killed, but she's getting the electro shock. It's the clear moment. It's so good. Oh, that is really good.

SPEAKER_01 48:14

That wasn't even in my top five.

SPEAKER_02 48:16

See, I had a feeling, I feel like it's like a I don't know. They were going for pizzazz with that one, you know. You know what it was? It was Black Christmas 2006 energy. A lot of this movie gave me Black Christmas 2006 energy. There was a defibrillator in that movie. And a creepy voice.

SPEAKER_01 48:33

And a poorly lit hospital ending.

SPEAKER_00 48:36

I feel like there's one very kind of obvious kill. It's the one I think a lot of people remember from this film, but I'm not gonna take that one. I'm actually gonna take Rebecca the Publicist, played by Alison Bree. Going with the fact that she doesn't die after she gets stabbed. I'm going with the fact that she dies when she's thrown from the roofing and lands on that news fan. Um I love it because it reminds me of Cece's Death in Scream 2, which is just iconic, Sarah Michelle Geller, not Sarah Jessica Parker, Sarah Michelle Geller getting thrown from the sorority building. I just I love that. I love a dramatic throw kill. But I also love that she I feel very intentionally lands on a news van and it's ghost faced saying, Hey, look over here. I am in control of the situation and I will manipulate the media for my own personal gain. So that's why I like that kill.

SPEAKER_05 49:29

Ooh, the layers.

SPEAKER_01 49:30

Yeah, it also I felt like Alison Bree was the Gail Weathers of this movie.

SPEAKER_00 49:33

Oh, she totally was.

SPEAKER_01 49:35

So just kind of like tossing her out the window and her landing on the news van, I was like, ooh, that's so good. I'm curious as to like what this kill is that we're all dancing around.

SPEAKER_03 49:44

Olivia?

SPEAKER_01 49:45

Okay, that's that's what I thought.

SPEAKER_03 49:47

Interesting. I was not thinking, I was thinking someone else. It's just so unique for Scream. Like, it just feels so intense.

SPEAKER_01 49:54

It does feel notably intense for Scream.

SPEAKER_05 49:57

It's very Casey Becker. Because Casey Becker had her like entrails like hanging out of her.

SPEAKER_00 50:03

We had like the HD sausage meat of Olivia on that bed. Like it was intense. Like little 16-year-old me seeing that for the first time. I was like, oh, that's what's inside me. I need to pay attention in biology because that shit's scary.

SPEAKER_02 50:19

It's also like the hang out of the window just before is also intense. I don't know. The whole sequence is a lot, and then to have that at the ending, you're like, ooh, okay, okay, my bad.

SPEAKER_01 50:29

So I'm actually going to go with my favorite kill. It was gonna be Olivia, but I was like, you know, have a backup because that's probably the one. But it's gonna be Anna Packwin as Rachel just getting stabbed by Kristen Bell in the very beginning. Because first of all, watching Kristen Bell stab anybody, I was like, yes. And Anna Packin of all people felt so like such a random choice. Like of all the actresses to cast, Anna Packin.

SPEAKER_00 50:52

Can I add something?

SPEAKER_01 50:53

Please.

SPEAKER_00 50:53

Originally those two roles were written for Lindsay Lohan and Paris Hilton. Oh what? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:00

Okay, the interesting thing here, and I don't know, listeners, if this timeline pans out, but I felt like that intro specifically was referencing scary movie referencing The Ring. Where you have like Pamela Anderson and like somebody, I think it might have been like um Carmen Electra at the very beginning, like watching The Ring, and they're like just two hot like schoolgirls in their plaid skirts. I don't know if this is true, I don't know if this timeline makes sense, but in my mind I was like, ooh, is that a thing? Um, but just like Kristen Bell stabbing Anna Packin was like such a shock the first time I saw it, and I also forgot about it this time. And because she was like talking too much during the movies, I was like, that's incredible. And she's like, now shut the fuck up and watch the movie. I was like, yes, brilliant, love it. End the movie right here, and it's a slash.

SPEAKER_02 51:44

Okay, but as a movie talker, it was like a big thing.

SPEAKER_01 51:46

Ryan, I thought of you the whole time. You were the Anna Paquin to my Kristen Bell.

SPEAKER_02 51:54

I don't want to know what it's like to be stabbed anymore. I thought you said you did. No, no, no, no. You take it back now?

SPEAKER_05 52:00

No, not really. Those are good deaths all around. I think Olivia was my favorite from sheer dramatics, right? But Charlie, honestly, fucking good riddance. It's his whole deal. Who are you and why are you here? One was the last time you bathed, your clothes appears to be clean, but is it really? Do you wreak a body odor? He was just like a big repulsive moment in this movie for me. But for him to have rigged the absolute havoc that he did, to have gutted Kirby the way he did, to have uh enacted all this horror upon other people's lives, thinking he was actually getting some, and then to be double-crossed and betrayed, absolutely fucking loved that.

SPEAKER_02 52:43

I'm not sure. I understand where you're coming from, but I'm not sure that he warrants all of the hate you have for him. For some reason he does have slimy energy, but his character doesn't actually do a ton of slimy things, I feel like. He just kind of just like meh. He's like the main killer though. I mean, right, but like because Jill told him to, duh.

SPEAKER_05 53:03

Yeah, but he's also just an idiot in an incel. I think you just hate him. I also do, yeah. He's absolutely horrid. I don't like him.

SPEAKER_01 53:11

I don't know that there's much to like.

SPEAKER_02 53:12

There's nothing to work with there. He does look like he smells like dirty hair in this movie, so.

SPEAKER_01 53:18

And baloney.

SPEAKER_00 53:18

Considering the amount of like killing he does, it's gotta be hot and sweaty under that mask. So no wonder his hair is lank and greasy. But you know, you don't see Mrs. Loomis walking around with shit hair. That's right.

SPEAKER_03 53:30

Well, I'm super happy because I feel like this is a great week. We have solid kills, so no one repeated a kill, which was awesome. Although everyone did favor Olivia's. But my favorite is definitely out to be Officer Perkins, and I'm surprised no one brought him up. I mean, I don't think I've seen a kill like that before. Like straight to the middle of your head.

SPEAKER_01 53:53

Just right in the forehead, through the skull.

SPEAKER_03 53:55

Yeah, it's very interesting, and he staggers, and there's this like after the kill action that I love, and then he's screaming, you know, fuck Bruce Willis, which I sort of got the comedy before that. Also, I think Anthony Anderson is pretty funny in general, so I loved him in this scene for sure.

SPEAKER_00 54:15

I can't believe no one mentioned Trevor. No one cares about Trevor.

SPEAKER_03 54:19

No, he's a little consequence.

SPEAKER_01 54:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:21

Great, but the but the crotch shot.

SPEAKER_01 54:22

Shot in the dick.

SPEAKER_03 54:23

He's literally Billy Loomis, no one likes him. But the crotch shot, okay?

SPEAKER_05 54:27

I feel like it's worth mentioning. I'm sorry. Gotta back it up. To say he's Billy Loomis implies a level of consequence that he simply didn't possess. He's just there, really.

SPEAKER_03 54:39

He just gave off Billy Loomis energy by hanging around, you know, Jill and everything like that. I don't know. That's the energy I got from him.

SPEAKER_01 54:46

Creepy boyfriend coming in through the window.

SPEAKER_03 54:48

Yes, exactly. That's that's that's that's what I was going for. But all the more reason to enjoy seeing him getting shot in the crotch. I don't know, I've never seen a dick shot, but it was it was interesting. I that would be what I go for, which I'm not sure how I'm feeling about this tonight.

SPEAKER_02 55:03

You're really the one I expected to mention it.

SPEAKER_03 55:05

Like, if anyone's gonna talk about someone getting shot in the dick, it's gonna be Alexis. Just not memorable. He didn't carry out the action well enough.

SPEAKER_01 55:12

I think his character was so flaccid that the dick shot was also just that.

SPEAKER_02 55:16

Like it actually just hit his pants and just went to the floorboards.

SPEAKER_03 55:21

It just grazed it pretty much.

SPEAKER_00 55:24

Well, I mean, him being shot was the best acting that uh Nico Tortarella did in that film.

SPEAKER_03 55:30

So So Scream 4 is actually the first film in the franchise to have a kill count with more females than males. It's actually gonna be a two-to-one ratio. Do we like that more women get killed in movies?

SPEAKER_01 55:42

I will say this. I was going through the IMDB, and there were only like two men in the entire cast that were noted, and I was like, yes, this feels right. I would rather just watch women do any, all the parts.

SPEAKER_02 55:51

I mean, there were definitely more than two men in the movie, but I'm I'm on board.

SPEAKER_03 55:54

I was just making sure. So I know we're gonna speak about visuals, but it was interesting enough that this was the first time in the franchise that a CGI knife was added, and this is because director Wes Craven wanted to avoid using prop knives that were rubber, cardboard, and collapsible. So they used CGI instead.

SPEAKER_02 56:12

That's so interesting. I I would have never known that, and also it does seem very West Craven to be like, I refuse to use a crop a prop.

SPEAKER_03 56:23

But to me, I'm thinking about when Jill stabbed herself, it felt I mean, all of these feels so real with this knife plunging into people.

SPEAKER_05 56:30

To be clear, every screen movie before this did have prop, like collapsible knives.

SPEAKER_02 56:36

Sure. I when I said that, I what I meant is it feels very West Craven in 2011 to be like, no, no, no, we are not gonna use props.

SPEAKER_03 56:43

We are utilizing CGI, although he probably doesn't talk like that. I was gonna say, where'd that accent come from? I love it. It's Midwestern. I think it was like Star Wars, Midwest Craven. Hey. So continue on with visuals. I know you guys mentioned this before, but Officer Judy coming out of that darkness and into the light was my favorite visual in this movie. I just like how it goes from this dark to her being super cheerful, and yes, I did note as very penny wise, like in general that scene. But you want to know why I even liked it more is because I thought she was the killer. So I was like, oh, there's this nice contrast between her coming from the dark to the light, she is the killer, and I was clearly wrong.

SPEAKER_02 57:28

Have you ever looked up gullible in the dictionary? Because for you to think that she was the killer is the most gullible thing.

SPEAKER_03 57:36

That scene was so corny. That actually makes me really upset because someone said this about me yesterday, and it made me fucking mad. Okay, well, it's coming from a place of love with me.

SPEAKER_02 57:45

But I felt like I felt like that scene was just so like forced. Like, look at this person standing in the dark.

SPEAKER_03 57:51

You know, I don't read into stuff like that. So I was like, ooh, this is interesting. What can I take out of this? Okay, okay, I retract.

SPEAKER_00 57:58

I think that scene as well kind of it irritated me because it made it, you know, so much suspicion was placed on her. But also it was the second fake-out jump scare, like a back-to-back scene, because Jill had just entered her bedroom and Trevor was there and it was a boom. And then the next scene, it was Sydney coming out, and then there was a boom, and it was Officer Pennywise in the shadows coming out of darkness, which is the title of Sydney's book. And so I just, you know, it felt a little bit on the nose. Bit on the nose, that's right.

SPEAKER_01 58:31

Bit on the clown nose. I'll be honest, when it comes to visuals, I didn't have a lot that I loved where that I was like, oh, that's my favorite visual element. And then I got to the end and I saw the way that Emma Roberts laid herself in like perfect symmetry with Sydney's dead body, and I was like, bitch, you got me. You got me there. It was just like so cinematic parallels in the most literal way, in the most like passing of the torch kind of way, that I was just like, okay, there's my favorite visual. Done.

SPEAKER_05 59:01

That symmetry is really cool. I think one of the other things that I love, in addition to like even the shadows of you know, Deputy Hicks emerging. I love the way this movie uses its framing. So for me, one of those standout moments was Olivia's death in general, right? But it wasn't just because of the oh shit, he's in her closet. It wasn't just the brutality of her kill. It's them looking in across this from across the street. It takes you back to 1984, a nightmare on Elm Street, you know, another craven classic. But it was being able to look out of one window and into another and seeing all this horror. And I think I appreciate even the layer of that now, looking back in retrospect and how the killers are trying to use like live streaming to you know to share everything that's happening. It reminds me of that quote from Pilgrim that we just followed up on earlier this episode, where he says that you know you're all stuck looking in your electronic windows to nowhere. And that's like again a really poetic moment, right? It's very, very, very subtle, but man, I wanted more shit like that in Scream 5.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:10

Can I just add that um Kirby in her bedroom has a poster over a window and Olivia's kill very much, you know, it feels you're watching a murder happen from across the way. It all ties in.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:26

For yeah, a woman after my own heart.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:28

I thought you'd like that one.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:30

Kirby has great taste in movies too.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:32

This is such a small detail, but it's one that I really love. And it's after Jill has had her kind of maniacal breakdown in Kirby's living room and she's taken into hospital, I think it's because she smacks herself into that picture. She runs into that picture and she gets a little cut around her eye. And from then on, when she's in the hospital, one of her eyes I think they put a contact lens on her because that eye, that iris is absolutely huge, and it makes one of her eyes look almost black. And I love that kind of physical transformation from someone who I mean, I was on to her from the beginning, but I think the general perception of her is she's like the new Sydney, she's the innocent girl, she's the one who's being targeted. And then there's this immediate physical change, which is slightly ominous and it's creepy, and it's it's scary seeing this intense black eye, you know, and she's so full of rage as a tiny human with this terrifying eye who's just looking at you like she wants to kill you. And it was such a small detail that I picked up this time round watching for the podcast. And because I'd always noticed that there was something different, that kind of her energy had shifted, but I liked that little subtle change that indicated that she cracked a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:53

Yeah, I think the little things like that in a movie like this are so special and important. And when you realize them, like God only knows how many times you've watched this for you. I feel like those little things are so nice when you pick up on them, especially in like a favorite movie. I uh again, kind of like Paris, I struggled a little bit, like nothing really stood out to me visually, but I am gonna use something that's kind of visual, but it's not that I liked it because of its like lighting or a shot or something. I liked the like bits of information that we get from like the use of TV and like Ghostface saying like what's gonna happen. And then also the one that really I enjoyed is like at the end when we have Jill being talked about as like the hero and like the news is going on about all the good things about her, they don't know what's fully happened here, of course. And it's just such an interesting thing. Like, I think movies can sometimes try to add in those elements with like a TV or radio or something, and sometimes they don't work, and they work quite well here, I think, especially like adding to Ghostface's control and well, I guess, all of their control, right? They're all involved with it. But I think it's just one of the things that adds to the story here in a small way, but it's really, really impactful.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:06

Speaking of impact, the thing I always take away from this movie is my favorite scene, and it is the ending, the exposition, the reveal, when it turns out that Jill has been a completely psychotic narcissist this entire time, plotting this entire plan to kill her family, including her mom and her cousin, to get famous, to go viral, to gain fans and not followers. And just her entire monologue about this was so just like compelling and like a little camp and like a little very like ahead of its time while simultaneously being so accurately of the time and being like, Yeah, you know, people will do anything to get famous now. You don't have to be famous anymore, you just have to have fucked up shit happen to you, like a sex tape leak or something like that. And then seeing the levels that she was gonna go to, because it was one thing to like deliver that crazy monologue and then like shoot your ex-boyfriend in the dick, but then to like stab yourself in the shoulder, rip out your hair and like face flesh with your boyfriend's dead hand, and then like run face first into a painting or like a glass portrait, and then throw yourself onto a glass coffee table. Each time they added something else, I was like, no, no. It was like more on more on more in a way that just really satisfied me.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:22

Okay, but by the time we got to like throw your like when she looked at the coffee table, I was like, we've been doing this for too long. This is like a 20-minute montage of like, how can I cut my my body and make it seem like someone attacked me? I was like, one thing was okay, second thing, okay. Mirror thing, okay. When she looked over at the glass coffee table, I was like, girl, I'm turning this movie off bye.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:48

Didn't you laugh though?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:50

At it, yes. Which again, there's my whole argument about campiness. It I don't think they meant for me to laugh at it, but it's fine.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:58

Ryan, it was literally behind the mask, but the victims version. It's like, how do you become a victim in a scary movie? And how do you get cut up and everything like that? That's exactly what it is. Freya, I'm sure you had a lot of these moments where you're like, oh, I love this reference to another scream movie in the franchise. So this happened to me when Charlie was in the chair in the backyard and you're getting this visual from Kirby out there, and I was like, oh my gosh, is this one you know, Drew Barry more in the first one, her boyfriend's outside and gets gutted. I was so excited for this, but it didn't end up happening that way. But I've still appreciated how the scene was set up for that, and I got super excited, even though it didn't fulfill it all. I'm still for it.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:41

That truly is an excellent scene. I just I love it because Kirby, to me, when you're going through the archetype of the characters of like this new casting for the new teens, she's kind of like Tatum and Randy in one person for me, because she's the amazing supportive friend to Jill Bailey. But also she's got this encyclopedic knowledge of horror that I think would rival the supposed, like you know, the two other lame boys who are supposed to be the Randy in this situation. And I think seeing her step into the shoes that Drew Barrymore wore, I think it was really, really cool.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:18

Let me tell you, in addition to that, I just have I ever been more attracted to someone than when Kirby just instantly started naming every fucking remake? Absolutely love that.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:29

I tell ya, I was sitting there. Well, first the first thing that I said when I was watching this is, dang, we need ghost face on the podcast because your man's knows his business, okay? He's a business professional.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:40

Oh my god, fact of fiction with ghost face.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:42

I realize I talk about ghostface as if he's not the people in the movie. But anyway, regardless, I like to think of him as an entity as well. And in my head, the entity has all this knowledge. But then also when Kirby starts going through it, I was like, wow, this is like this makes me feel shameful. Like I don't know anything. I mean, I knew everything that she was talking about, but that list and the the way she was rattling off everything was very good.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:06

Which is funny because you've reviewed most of those movies.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:09

I will say though, when Ghostface was talking about the first time they showed uh Killer's point of view, the first movie. Peeping Tom. Yeah, when he said that, I was like, I feel like I need to watch that movie now, and I'll probably hack it, but I do feel like I need to watch it. Mm-hmm. Like we mentioned Rear Window. Watching Rear Window has somehow randomly come up in my life like six times since we reviewed it. Never heard of it before that. I feel like that might be another one that's like the same thing, like all of a sudden I'm gonna hear about it and be talking about it for no reason.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:38

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:40

As Alexis said, there are so many callbacks to other scream films within this one. And it's it's kind of shameful to mention this when there are so many other really great scenes in the film, but this is just something that tickled me particularly. And it's a tiny scene when Sydney's in the Roberts kitchen. I think she's just got a glass of wine and she hears a wind chime outside, and she goes over to investigate it, and she starts taking it down. And that to me was really uh it kind of hit me in the emotions because at the end of Scream Three, she is in this beautiful house, she's got her dog, she's got her, you know, McDreamy there, and um Dewey and Gail just got engaged, like life is happy. And she looks back and she hears these wind chimes that she's got outside of her door, and the door is wide open, and she thinks, I don't have anything to be scared of anymore. You know, I'll leave the door open. The wind chimes are flowing, life is good. And I liked that there was this tiny moment in Scream 4 when she hears these wind chimes and she associates that with like, oh, this isn't safe, like I can't leave the door open, I'm gonna take those wind chimes down. And then when she hears them again, it's actually a sign of danger. And I'm probably just an idiot scream fan and I'm reading too much into it. But that was just a little scene that I really appreciated.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:54

No, you're not.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:55

I have chills.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:56

So good. Everything's intentional, Freya. We aspire to be your at your level of depth.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:02

That's so good. Because I could tell that they were doing something with that that I wasn't getting, because I was like, this feels like such an innocuous moment that is so deliberately included in this. And the fact that you like brought this to my attention, I'm just like, ugh, like I said, I got chills.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:16

It really does make sense though, because it it kind of speaks to like the changes of her mindset, like when she's back home, you know, like she can't, she can't actually step away from the stuff when she's here. Well, like she can when she's in that beautiful house with that adorable dog. That yeah, that's such an insane, lovely thing to pick up on. I'm actually gonna be a bit contradictory here for myself and say that when I think about like looking back on this movie, because I didn't have anything that stood out to me as like a favorite scene while I was watching, I would say that the thing that annoyed me that I found to be a bit cliche, which is like the cops sitting outside, they're in the house, the cops get killed, the someone in the house gets killed, and it all kind of just like devolves into an unproductive cop outing. That's actually one of the things that I think is probably my favorite because it's it feels very scream. Um I I think I I think I just didn't like it in the movie in the in the spot where it was in for some reason, but looking back, I'm thinking like, oh, that's like something that stands out as a favorite scene as a whole, like a whole sequence, because it's so scream, like the cops are gonna get killed. Of course they're not outside anymore, and you're gonna get a phone call in the house, and no one's gonna help you. Like it that's just how it goes here. That's what Ghostface does.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:34

That's a good one, and I love that you especially dig into like you know, where where do we see these moments in other scream movies? For me, it's the opening scene, and I love it because it resets the palette. You know what I mean? It's like, okay, we had the campiness of the third film, we know that the stab franchise is is is out here, it's thriving, it gives the explanation of just making things up along the way. But I think what I love most about it is is it gives me the same sensation that I even got in the 2018 Halloween when the opening credits and you have the pumpkin that is completely rotted and then returning to its original form. The fact that we have so many layers within this movie of other horror movies that are out here within that time that are being picked at, that are being poked at and prodded, but to talk about like where horror is at the time, referencing saw, referencing the complications of jigsaw and torture porn, etc. Even you know, knowing that Wes Craven's done some of that in his time. I absolutely love that, just to kind of reset where we are and show, okay, yes, this is gonna be scream, this is gonna be scream for, but it's not your daddy's screen for. This is your scream for. This is for you here in this moment. And I think that really just like set the tone for the rest of the movie for me. And I think one of the other things I love about that is even the extra bits of characters that we get in those moments. Anna Pacqua in Paris, you were talking about it earlier. We have Arya from The Pretty Little Liars. It was such a star-sided cast, even with Kristen Bell, that it kind of took the wind out of the sails for the rest of the stars that are also peppered in the background, like Anthony Anderson, we have Adam Brody. Those cameos didn't feel as distracting to me. I think because of the punch of that opening scene. It's the perfect backdrop to our three main stars. So we have Dewey, we have uh Sydney, we have Gail, and everybody else finally feels like a formidable cast around them.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:36

I do agree with you. And I think that one of the things that I struggle with with the sequels as we go on and on is like I'm tired of David Arquette. What? I am too. I'm actually also tired of Nev Campbell, and I know that that's like you've gone too far. I know that's not the thing you're supposed to say. I know. But like from the original cast, I can only really bear Courtney Cox at this point, and I hated her for like two and three.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:02

Yeah. What?

SPEAKER_02 1:13:03

Was that just her hair?

SPEAKER_00 1:13:05

It is her hair. That's why Paris hated her.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:08

That's why I loved her.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:09

They gave her really good hair in this film to make up for the atrocity that was that fringe in Scream 3.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:15

Yeah, Paris. Wait, you don't remember the fringe from Scream 3 that you complained about for like an hour?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:19

Yeah, but I love it.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:20

Okay, but you hated.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:21

It's important to be able to love something while oh, so critique it.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:24

Well, listen, I'm not ashamed, okay, to say that like I I've just gotten a bit exhausted by the original cast because they're in every single one, and I'm sorry. Also, Emma Roberts will only ever be the girl from Unfabulous for me. I can only see that in her. And I know that she's done a lot more. Like, it literally, when you Google her and look at her movies and TV shows, Unfabulous doesn't even show. I wouldn't want it to show either if I was her. But I can't see anything else. And I've seen a couple of things with her in it. I think it's also the look that she has in this movie. Like, this is a the younger her. I think as she's gotten older, things have changed a little. But like, oh my god, all I could see is like a girl walking down the hall in high school, like making silly comments on like Disney Channel, and it just it just really, really didn't do it for me. But I guess she was acting, so she can do something.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:16

I just want to add something because I I knew Emma Roberts before this film came out because I'd seen like Aquamarine, I'd seen, you know, Wild Child, these are all you know very important classics in my childhood. But um to I feel like the general audience in 2011 they wouldn't have known who she is. And I think that was part of the brilliance of her casting because her whole character's motivation is she's overshadowed by a more famous relative, and she is Julia Roberts' niece.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:46

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:47

And then that follows through with Rory Culkin, who is her co-conspirator, who is the younger brother of Macaulay. They are both people who want the infamy. Okay, I'm into that. Because they've been overshadowed. And, you know, I just think that was such clever casting.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:03

And I'm very into that. And I appreciate you adding something to it for me because all I see is Emma Roberts from Unfabulous.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:11

See, for you, I will say I picked up on the Julia Roberts of it all because obviously her name was Jill Roberts. So they weren't they weren't trying to pull the wool over my eyes too hard with that one, but I did not get the Macaulay Culkin one.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:23

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:24

Because even So thank you for adding even more value.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:26

I think there were like eight Culkins, but there's obviously Macaulay, and then there's Kieran, who was in Home Alone with Macaulay. And then he's in succession now, isn't he?

SPEAKER_01 1:15:36

So like that's what he's doing.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:37

Poor little Rory Culkins, like at the bottom of the heap. I mean, he was in he was in signs. Um not to call back to my traumatic experience.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:47

He had asthma. I think we can say there's too many Culkins.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:50

But they all strangely look alike. I know they're siblings, but they have an oddness. It's that kind of eerie bone structure.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:58

Strange.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:00

Historically, normal people to look alike are siblings.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:04

They look strangely familiar all together. Because they all look like your little kid brother, Macaulay Gulkin, in Home Alone. Interestingly enough, Gail was my favorite out of this entire cast. I felt like she was always annoying. This annoying reporter, this person just trying to like infiltrate everything in this investigation throughout the franchise. And I love her in this one because she's so spot on with everything. Even down to one of my favorite, like few lines, like a cluster of lines where they're talking about the lemon squares that Officer Hicks brings in, and there's that setup, and she eats them, and I was like, damn, she ate it. She fell, you know, she fell with the joke, and then she's like, Oh yeah, I know you make him for him. And I was like, you know what? She's so clever in this movie, and I don't think we got enough of her in the rest of the franchise. So I love that she's shining through this. Cannot wait to see her in scream five.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:02

Ryan's like, please, less Gale. Could there have been more Gale in season in in Scream Three? Yeah, but she's annoying. Let's downgrade that Gale to a light breeze, maybe. Correct. There were two Gales.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:16

There were you got double Gale in Scream Three. I will never be mad about Gale Weathers.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:21

But she was annoying in that. Not that we didn't get enough. I just felt like we didn't get her in a strong. I mean, she was in a strong role, but she got annoying reporter vibes the entire franchise. Yes, we didn't get good Gale enough. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:34

We got where some Gale a lot. We got light Gale, annoying Gale. A gust. Just like gently knocked over your phones. Yeah, got it.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:42

Annoying Gale.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:43

Was she annoying?

SPEAKER_00 1:17:44

Well, she got a taste of her own medicine with little Rebecca, you know, tagging along after her like a little dog, yapping at her ankles. And she was like, Oh, can you just leave me alone? It's like, yeah, that's what you were doing to Sydney during her processing her mother's death. So suck it, Gail. You've not published a book in a while because you make your money off other people's trauma. Whereas Sydney is out there doing a wonderful thing and writing a book about her experience getting better and wanting to help people. And Gail's jealous about it. And I love that scene when she goes into the bookshop when Sydney's giving her address about her wonderful book and how she's wanting to help people. And Gail comes up to her and says, Oh, you know, I haven't had a chance to read it yet. And Sid says, Oh, well, you know, now you can get a copy. And it reminded me of the first film when um Gail's at the school and she kind of attacks Sydney, and Gail says to Sidney, Oh, well, I'll send you a copy of the book about her mother's murder, and Sid just you know, bops her right in the chops. Bam, bitch went down. Sid, super bitch. I just I love that kind of how Sydney handled this situation with Grace, whereas before, you know, sucked her right in the face.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:54

That's growth. That's development.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:56

That is growth and development. And one of the things I did love about this moment before I go on to my my singular complaint about this film, I love when Rebecca is following Gail and is talking about how she was her nineties. And I'm just thinking about like, okay, sure, Gail weather's iconic in 1996, sure. But really, Courtney Cox iconic in the nineties with friends. It's just it feels very lived in, and there's even this tie of how at this point, you know, she talks about how her and Dewey have been together for ten years, when really her and David Arquette have been married for ten years at this point, and I mean imagine this, right? They filed for separation. They're separated during the filming of this movie after being together for so long. I can't imagine working with an ex that closely. Good on you, Gail. Those compliments aside, the one thing that really kills me in this movie is Charlie. I'm really not a fan of him. I'm not a fan of his vibe. I feel like Jill as a killer felt really well concealed and really just her approach to things. You know, even now, knowing obviously that she's the killer, I still don't walk away with this like, wow, they really beat you over the head with it. So, for yeah, I'd love to know like at some point the moment, like what was the first actual clue you felt like, okay, she's definitely it. But for me, it felt like Charlie was just so obvious the entire time. And it was this, okay, four years of classes and you're only just now noticing me. It just felt like, okay, obviously, this kid would be a killer. He would have been a killer on his own. Kind of like how they wanted the killer in Scream 2 to be, where he's just really just looking for the financing and the opportunity to do it. I feel like Charlie had that energy, but he was kind of a little bitch about it. That's just me.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:40

It was just like a little heavy-handed. So I can't pinpoint exactly what it was about Jill from the get-go. I just had a a gut feeling. I was like, this bitch. Because of the I I don't know if this is a controversial opinion or not, but I really hate when in any media the twist is that there's like a secret sibling or a secret family member. Like I've, you know, from watching like Gossip Girl and Pretty So Liars, that it was done for me. And so when I was watching something that I really enjoyed, like the Scream series, just seeing it there, I thought, oh, like there are so many things you could have done rather than included, like, oh, this is actually your secret, you know, so on and so forth. Um, and so I just felt by introducing a new member of her family, because of what we know from previous Scream films, I just thought, I'm gonna have my eye on this on this little bit. And then a a a qualm I had with the film was there was such a long amount of time when we didn't see Jill, like when she was out of the window, and then when she was upstairs for such a long time at Kirby's house, I thought you know, we're not seeing her, we're seeing shots of other people. And so logistically, I just thought it it has to be her. Um but that wasn't my main issue. I it came to really like the cousin being the you know secret killer and envious of her older cousin thing. My main issue is that Ghostface is like a tall presence. He's like a hulky dude, he's got the big boots and stuff. And I feel like Rory Culkin's probably no more than five seven and and Emma Roberts is how tall did we say she was? She's a diddy. Five two. Five two. And she did not, you know, for however many kills each of them did, it was it's so unlikely that either of them was wearing the mask at that time because like Jill taking down like Anthony Anderson. I don't see it. Um just when you see him running around, I'm like, that's neither of those two. So I know like uh Ghostface is kind of a presence on his own, like Ryan said earlier on. I kind of think Ghostface is kind of a character on his own, and then he's kind of possessed by people. That's kind of the meta way I think about it, and it gets rid of those plot holes because you know, those are the plot holes that make screen. Um but yeah, that was slightly annoying to me when at the end Jill took off her mask and she was so much shorter than Sydney, wearing the little ghost face thing. It's like that's a child-sized one. That's not the ghost face we've seen.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:19

But then remember that she's wearing this robe, she's in full gear, and then moments later when she has all that off, she's wearing the chunkiest, most feminine boots you could ever see to add height.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:30

She's still at most like 5'8, and that wasn't taller than Sid. That's right.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:36

I totally obviously again, Freya, agree. It's like you see ghost you think of ghostface as someone else that is its own thing, and then you know that like there's certain people that are part of the story and everything, but it's not they're not ghostface all the time, you know? You it just doesn't work that way, and it has never worked that way.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:52

It's always been people where I'm like, they're not tall enough. It's interesting because I have no qualms about this movie at all. No worst part. Well, she's also five too, so should the height thing doesn't bother her. Yeah, it doesn't bother me because I can only imagine what I'd look like in one of those one. I would be tripping all over it because I need platform shoes that were three feet taller than I am right now. I liked and I disliked how this movie kind of said some shit about the Saw franchise. And I was like, damn, they're really about to talk shit about some Saw right now. But then Sherry says, I like the unique kills, so she, you know, it's backed up a little bit, so I'll take that. But all in all, I will agree there is no really character development unless you're actually talking about the killer and saw four. In any of them. Oh, yeah, specifically saw four.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:47

Well, I have a few things for best part. I think one is Kirby's hot, and it's great. Yeah, just is what it is. Like sh it it's just nice to look at her. To be fair, Olivia's also hot, so there's some attractive people in this movie. That's enjoyable. We're always down for that. The opening scene is one of the best parts, I think. I think it's really funny and interesting the way they do it, and they are not held back by the realm of like what is reality, and like, is are we in a movie? Are we not in a movie? Like, it it I don't think you have to understand it, although I I think maybe it technically works out, but it doesn't matter. Like, it's just fun. It's a fun opening for a movie. I've enjoyed the way they talk about Stab in Scream all the time, so I think that's one of the strong parts of the movie.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:36

I totally agree, Ryan. I think the references to Stab really just make me wish that I could watch those movies in addition to these movies, to be honest. And I think Freya, when you were talking earlier about how you're not quite sure what it was that cued you in to the fact that Emma Roberts was our killer, re-watching it after knowing that she's the killer, there's small things that she does in different scenes with Sydney where you can kind of see that something's not she's not all there. Like, at one point she's like asking her like what her experience was like, like going through all of this, and she has this like slight, like 2% smile on her face while she's hearing her like um talk about her like trauma, and she's like, Oh yeah, that's good, I like that. In a way that you can kind of just like, okay, so she's actually a dark-sided bitch. I love this. Um, and there's also a scene where everyone's in the class and they all get the text message finding out that um somebody has been killed, and she's literally the only person who does not get a notification on her phone and doesn't even react at all. And then she's like turns around and she's like, Oh my god, what happened? Oh no. And like truly, she never really shows any kind of emotional reaction to anybody around her dying. So I think you were just picking up on all these clues in a way that I didn't pick up on my first time.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:45

Also, can I just briefly mention the part where Kirby and Jill are sitting on the couch and like talking about like at the the anti-party, and they're just sitting there and they're like, Oh, Olivia would have wanted us to watch. Like, whatever they say about Olivia is so weird considering they just left the scene of the crime. Like, I don't know. Is Kirby innocent? It's maybe debatable. I feel like she could have been in on it for a bit.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:09

Well, here's the thing Hidden Panantier Summoning Circle. Wes Craven acknowledged that she didn't die in the movie. In a commentary, he acknowledged that she's still moving and she's not confirmed to be dead. He didn't promise that she'd be back, but she didn't fully die in the movie. And how great would that be? Are your dreams gonna come true? I don't think they will, but I hope they do. Frey and I have talked about this. We're gonna light our candles and just pray for the best.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:38

Oh my god. If you hear a faint scream around January the 14th, it's probably me um seeing Hayden Panettia on screen in Scream 5. Um, you know, summoning circle hoping.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:53

With all of this being said, I do have to say a worst part of this movie that I absolutely loved, and I have two small worst parts. One of them is Trevor as a character, portrayed by Nico Tortorella, who is famously very gay, and that was not lost in me throughout his entire performance. There's something in Hollywood where it's like, stop casting straight actors in gay roles, give the gays an opportunity. But in a way, I feel like it also works the opposite. Like, stop casting gay actors that can't play straight, which is fine. Like, I can't play straight. I could never pass for that in my life. But stop doing that in movies. Like, I remember when I saw Annabelle Annabelle or Annabelle 2, one of those in theaters has a very gay lead who's playing like this straight guy with a girlfriend, and the whole time I was like, I can't watch this. I literally cannot. Like, are we all just pretending that this is not a huge homosexual on the screen? And I felt that every time he literally said anything or did anything in this movie. So it was a bit of a distraction. The other thing, and this is coming back to Kirby, every time I watch this movie, I get upset that we don't hear the final question that Ghostface is trying to ask Kirby because she cuts him off and then just starts prattling off movies. I'm like, you don't even know what the question was. Of course you didn't get it right. You just like cut him off and then just start saying things. That doesn't count.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:03

So true.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:03

The legitimacy of the quiz was compromised.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:06

And she went so far. I mean, I think that Ghostface didn't reply because Jill just didn't know. Like Jill was like, I don't know the answer. I'm just gonna not just gonna not reply. You probably got it.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:16

Oh yeah, that's true. At that point, it definitely was Jill.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:19

Interesting. Yeah, that's true. She wasn't the one.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:22

So she has that knowledge in her dark sided brain.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:25

But see, again, we get to the point of like, is it Ghostface or is it the killers? Because they're different.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:29

Paris, it is annoying because I do want to know the rest of that question. But I will say that that even that little bit of annoyance doesn't deter me from wanting to re-watch this movie again. It's December 2021 as we record this episode. In a few weeks, we're gonna have Scream 5. I think I just might do a binge right before I watch the movie.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:51

I might join you, Chris Rojas, for the first time ever. I am happily going to re-watch this movie and I'm not lying about it. I go back and forth. It's either my favorite scream or it's tied with the first, because those two to me are just really great. At this point I've developed an appreciation for the other two, but I am nervous and excited for Scream 5.

SPEAKER_05 1:30:09

Okay, what if we make it a date and we get jiffy pop?

SPEAKER_01 1:30:12

I hate popcorn, but I'll do it for the gag.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:15

Okay, great. I would be willing to bet that I go the rest of my life without ever watching this again. Not necessarily intentionally, but like I'd bet a dollar on it that I never see it again. Unless Frey comes here and forces me to, which I feel like is also maybe a possibility. Sleep over.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:32

I definitely am going to binge this before watching Scream 5, which I am happy to say it's coming out on my birthday. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:41

So Scream 5 is a Capricorn.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:43

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:43

Capricorn energy all the way.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:45

I will 100% be re-watching this with my best friend, Sean, who introduced me to Scream, and we will be having our second Scream a thon than we've ever had in our lives when we were 16 and now we're 24. We're going to watch all the Screams, and then at the end of the day, we're gonna go and see the new one together. So it's gonna be so special, and I can't wait to re-watch this one. That's very exciting.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:07

Well, I think we're all minus Ryan looking forward to our binge sessions uh coming up in the next month. But for now, there you have it, folks. Scream 4 has earned four slashes and one hack. Now, Freya, again, thank you so much for joining us. We are so lucky to have you. You stayed up tremendously late to join us for this. Where can folks find you on the internet should they want to chat horror with you?

SPEAKER_00 1:31:32

So you can find me on Twitter at Freya is a fairy. Fairy spelt like the anagram of my name, F-A-E-R-Y, and on Instagram at Freya the Fairy. I don't post horror content, but if you want to come and like, you know, chat about flowers or cats or or horror films, please uh come find me if you'd like to.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:54

Listeners, she does not post horror content, however, she is living the dream cottage core lifestyle as we speak. So if that's the content you're into, follow her. And if you're lucky enough to be blessed to be on her close friends page on Instagram, you see some of the most beautiful things you've ever seen in your life.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:09

And some of the most cursed. Wonders of the world, honestly. And she's also very active on our Patreon. Uh, truly just leaving great takes everywhere. Aww.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:21

Thank you guys so much for having me. This has been the coolest experience as a listener and a fan of you all. And I just I feel so lucky to have talked to you guys about one of my favourite films. And I encourage any other listener of the show. If there's a film that you're passionate about, come talk to these guys about it because it'll, you know, make you have a whole nother level of appreciation for the podcast and for the films.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:43

I think I'm crying over here a little bit. I'm hearing up.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:47

I love you all.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:48

And we you.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:49

Not me hacking it.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:51

This episode is actually releasing on my birthday, and that feels like a great birthday gift, Freya. So thank you so much for that.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:57

Happy birthday, honey.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:59

Thank you. Now we've certainly had a robust discussion here, but it doesn't end here by any means, not for any of us, not for Freya, not for you. So we want to know what you think. Keep in mind there are a number of ways you can reach out to us, starting with our website, hackerslash.live, or on our social media accounts on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:15

If you feel like this has been one of the best episodes ever, you can reach out to our Hackerslash Hotline and tell us about it. You can leave us a voicemail at 757-606-0128, or visit hackerslash. Additionally, if you'd like to contribute to the world of technology that we live in, you can also send us an email at feedback at hackerslash.com.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:34

And if you've enjoyed listening to this episode, consider becoming one of our patrons like Freya or our new friend Craig. You can visit patreon.com slash hacker slash to earn cool perks for as low as $1 a month.

SPEAKER_05 1:33:44

We'll see you next time, folks, and remember, don't fuck with the original. Bye.

unknown 1:33:49

Yay!