195: Scream (2022)

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Well never underestimate the power of a peep toe pump.

SPEAKER_02 0:12

Greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hacker Slash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. It's an honor. If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack.

SPEAKER_01 0:25

A total joke, a waste of time, or a splash. Totally killer pun intended.

SPEAKER_02 0:30

We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, we're writing these movies with a perspective we've gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast, and this week we're running a super skeleton crew as I'm joined by the Scream Queen Paris.

SPEAKER_01 0:46

If I ever get bangs again, somebody stage an intervention.

SPEAKER_02 0:49

And also this week we rolled up to the theater to check out the latest entry in a storied franchise. Before we get down to business though, we have some follow-up.

SPEAKER_01 0:57

Let's follow up on a movie. Okay, so we asked the patrons what they wanted us to review because we love our patrons, and they suggested the movie Stay Alive from 2006. Now, that's cute. We love that. We love our patron recommendations, it's fun to try new things, but the movie did not fare well amongst the team. If you're curious to hear exactly why, uh go back and listen to that episode. It was just a couple weeks ago. But we wanted to hear what our listeners thought. Now, honestly, this surprises me, Chris, and I guess it shouldn't because a lot of our patrons did have good memories of this movie, but the results are actually pretty close. Only 56% gave it a hack and 44% gave it a slash.

SPEAKER_02 1:36

That feels right. That feels like I love this because of nostalgia, but I don't love this if I just watch it straight up for the first time.

SPEAKER_01 1:44

Yeah, if you watch it for the first time in 2020, or sometime after that, like we did, it doesn't necessarily hold up maybe because of how we've advanced in technology, but I think there's definitely potential for a reboot there, which we talked about. Now we do have a comment from Alex, one of our patrons who actually recommended this movie, and he had this to say. Yes, Hutch had no rising moment and Swink had to save the day, but I felt that's kind of relatable in a gamer world. Just as Swink was rushing like a boss in the game on their first play session, and when he linked the house, IRL, to the house in the game, figuring it out, guiding Hutch, and ultimately saving the day in the end. In the gaming world, anyone can be the overall hero. Even if IRL, you may not appear to be the obvious hero choice. Anyone can be the hero when it comes to gaming. And I think that's a really cute point, and I love that.

SPEAKER_02 2:34

I love that, Alex. You gave this movie like 38% more credibility than I was willing to give it.

SPEAKER_01 2:40

Yeah, and you also just like give it a lot of heart, which I love.

SPEAKER_02 2:42

It's really it's the heart that counts.

SPEAKER_01 2:44

We have another comment from one of our listeners, Gregory, who said, This is 100% a slash. It's on my top 20 favorite horror movies ever made. The concept is fantastic, acting really good, and there's very little wrong with it.

SPEAKER_02 2:56

I would also like to point out though that the other movie that's currently pulling ahead in our patron vote for next month is It Follows, and Gregory is the one of the first to comment to say, absolutely not, literally anything. That movie is terrible.

SPEAKER_01 3:11

We also have another comment from Darren who said, Stay alive was a hard hack for me. The dialogue was terrible, the performances were seriously lacking, and the film created rules which it constantly ignored. I found this to be a very frustrating viewing experience. It just wasn't for me. So really we have two complete opposite takes here amongst the listeners.

SPEAKER_02 3:29

But you know what? It's all about the balance of uh nuanced opinion and perspective. Stay alive is no signs of the lambs, right?

SPEAKER_01 3:36

Exactly. This movie is nothing if not divisive, but more so than I would have expected. Now, speaking of different perspectives, Chris, ring ring, we've got a call to the hackerslash hotline. Chris, roll the tape.

SPEAKER_00 3:48

Hey guys, Jazz here. Um, first of all, I want to thank you guys, give you guys a little shout out for being my number one podcast of 2021. It really means a lot to me, you know, to be able to watch new or re-watch so many movies that I completely forgot about or never heard of. Be able to get the experience. Stay alive. Yeah, I I totally agree. That movie is a hack. My little sister and I we saw it when it first came out on DVD. I remember it being a lot better than what it was. But uh when I rewatched the other day to prepare for the podcast, I was like, wow, this movie was terrible. It definitely gets a hack. And I definitely agree with you guys. It gets a hack solely because of the lack of gore, like Alexis says, the lack of gore as well as the fact that it had so much potential, but it just it it completely failed to live up to it. It was disappointing, very disappointing rewatch. But uh thank you guys so much once again for being my number one podcast of 2021, and I'm pretty sure you were at 2020 as well. Um, take care, guys. Thanks.

SPEAKER_01 5:00

Oh my god, cute. Jazz, first of all, thank you so much for calling in. Uh, and also thank you so much for making us your number one most listened to podcast, possibly two years running, it sounds like honestly, it's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 5:12

Let's see if we can pull for a third-year term.

SPEAKER_01 5:14

Oh my god, we're campaigning now.

SPEAKER_02 5:16

Are we gonna be up for re-election soon?

SPEAKER_01 5:18

Oh god, don't remind me.

SPEAKER_02 5:20

Well, she likes us enough to be a patron, so that's exciting.

SPEAKER_01 5:23

Yes, and Jazz, honestly, I totally agree. This movie, at least for me, had potential that it did not meet. Now, maybe when it first came out in 2006, it was meeting that potential because we were like not in a place where we could imagine anything more than that. But at this point, we can do so much more that I think, like Chris mentioned, like we've said a bunch of times, this movie is ripe for the reboot.

SPEAKER_02 5:47

Absolutely agreed.

SPEAKER_01 5:49

And that is our follow-up.

SPEAKER_02 5:50

Well, speaking of reboots, twenty-five years ago, Wes Craven gifted the world a meta slasher that breathed new life into a struggling genre. Now that film spawned a franchise that offered commentary on not only the horror genre, but pop culture and media consumption as a whole. When last we visited this franchise a few episodes ago, alongside heroine Sidney Prescott and her companions Gail Weathers and Dewey Riley, they faced off with a familiar foe. Now we've heard the rules of scary movies, sequels, trilogies, and even reboots. This time, though, we're buckling in for a recoil. This week we're talking about Scream. What were you expecting going into this one, Paris?

SPEAKER_01 6:28

Well, if our patrons or any of our other listeners that want to become patrons had listened to our watch along that we did earlier today of the original Scream movie, they would know exactly what I was expecting. But for those that haven't listened, here's why here's what I was thinking. I was thinking we were going to get a lot of references to the first film. Uh, I've tried my best to like avoid watching trailers, but on Twitter, if you're even remotely in horror Twitter, you're seeing a lot of promotional stuff. Uh so we've seen some really cool um like ads and like meta sort of like promotional campaigns on Twitter, different videos and things. So I was expecting it to be very referential to the original film. Also, I was expecting there to be some element of time travel, because if you remember from our Scream 4 episode, Freya and I both really latched on to the moment where they talk about how Stab 5 is the one with time travel. So I was like, okay, Stab 5 had time travel. Scream 5 is gonna have some element of time travel. And I think in a way that wasn't incorrect.

SPEAKER_02 7:26

You know, when you think about the concept of a requel, when we think about films that are returning to the roots of their franchises, that's not a bad way to go. It's very poetic of you. So it's a little bit of a stretch, but it's not too far of a stretch.

SPEAKER_01 7:38

Thank you. I'm very flexible.

SPEAKER_02 7:40

Oh, you're very welcome. I think in terms of expectations, I was really hoping for one particular character to die, which I will absolutely hold off of the record for right now. But I was expecting something to be a little bit more of a love letter to the original film, just based off of what I had heard. The marketing for this film has been absolutely brilliant, and we're actually given quite a bit in the trailers, and I thought there's absolutely no way this could seriously be like the opening kill of the movie. You know what I mean? There's a lot that's packed into those trailers that feel like red herrings. I had heard confirmation that there's a specific quote that is actually cut together from two different quotes in the movie. And I think if you consider the trailers, you probably know exactly which one I'm talking about. But I was expecting something to be also a little bit more dark in terms of its tone. I thought we'd be moving away from the overall campiness that we get in the subsequent films.

SPEAKER_01 8:39

I think that's a really good call, Chris. We kind of got to a point where things went maybe a little too far over the top. I think in Scream 3 we really peaked there, and then Scream 4, we kind of leveled back out to a more balanced approach. But I think you were right to expect like a darker, more serious tone this go-around, because I think the goal of this movie is to like bring Scream to the next generation. At least that's what I was thinking.

SPEAKER_02 9:02

Absolutely. In a similar way that we did that with the latest Halloween films, right? Looking even at the cast that we have in here, there were some, you know, some very strong assumptions I made, even just when looking at like who plays what kind of character in the movie. And I will say that this movie did so well implanting those red herrings in its marketing or even in who it chose for particular roles, that I found the film to be a pleasant surprise a lot of the way through. I don't think things were totally shocking, but there were there's enough in there that kept me on my toes the entire time.

SPEAKER_01 9:40

I think that's fair to say. There were definitely times where I was kind of, I think, overthinking things because I know so much about this franchise and I was really reading into every single possibility. But I think I was almost a little bit distracted by my own theories and like ideas that I was coming up with, all the possibilities that were presented to me. I would love to watch this movie again without all that in my head, because I think there's maybe some things that I missed out on because I was like trying to think 10 steps ahead to like figure out the ending, because that's just how my brain works. But I think overall I felt familiar in a way, but also hesitant to really get into this new cast of characters.

SPEAKER_02 10:23

Really? Okay. I didn't have a lot of trouble buying into them. I think because this felt like such a great balance between the old guard and the new guard. And look, I've been on this train since the Force Awakens with Star Wars, right? You have a lot of the legacy characters being mixed in with the new characters, and I'm not someone who's opposed to that at all. As long as the first film back is a retread or a respectful acknowledgement of what's come before it. We talked about this in the Halloween 2018 rewind where it's really just going back to the very beginning and say, look, look, look, let's erase all this noise that came later and let's get back to the soul of what matters. And as long as you're doing that, I'm okay with introducing new characters. Unlike, let's say, that show Glee that I've become obsessed with over time. Uh they just introduce brand new characters a couple seasons in, and you're like, whoa, what the fuck is going on here? I don't like any of these people. I think the performances felt pretty balanced. And I will say, I felt, as a fan of the original Scream film, with all my nostalgic love for it, I felt really satisfied with a lot of the nods that we get to the original film.

SPEAKER_01 11:35

Oh yeah. Having just rewatched Scream earlier today with you, Chris, I think I can say with confidence that I picked up on at least 90% of all of the little references, right down to the post-it on Sheriff Hicks's Fridge.

SPEAKER_02 11:49

Oh yeah, you can't forget those.

SPEAKER_01 11:52

I will say, I think I was pleasantly surprised in a lot of ways. There's a couple actors that are introduced in this movie that I'm like, oh wow, very great performances from them. I think I might be a little bit disappointed in the way some things turn out in this movie. Uh I wasn't particularly surprised by the ending. And I was kind of just like, okay, that's sort of what I figured. Let me know what the why is and we'll see how much I buy into that.

SPEAKER_03 12:21

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 12:22

I think we both guessed, let's say, ghost face identity. I think we guessed it fairly early on.

SPEAKER_01 12:29

Yeah, I think because our brains combined are too good.

SPEAKER_02 12:32

Oh, we just know fun.

SPEAKER_01 12:34

Yeah. I think together we really put it together really quickly because we were already in that problem-solving mode. So once I had like that kind of established, I was considering every other alternative.

SPEAKER_02 12:45

But even aside from that, I do think there's a lot of plausibility here where if you just take like half a step back from where we were, you could have so much fun with this movie and pointing out like the whodunit of things. And I think even the characters in the movie have fun with that.

SPEAKER_01 12:59

Yeah. I mean, right until it's revealed, I was really only at most like 60% sure of anything.

SPEAKER_02 13:06

That's fair. And I think it's a pretty explosive reveal. I think when you finally see it, I don't know that it gives me the same jaw-dropping moment that you have from the original scream, but it still felt like a, oh, okay, here we are. This is happening.

SPEAKER_01 13:24

I don't know, Chris. My jaw actually dropped a couple times.

SPEAKER_02 13:27

Really?

SPEAKER_01 13:28

Yeah, I had like my hands covering my mouth because I was just like, oh bitch.

SPEAKER_02 13:32

I didn't notice that.

SPEAKER_01 13:33

Oh, I'm when we get into the second half where we talk about spoilers, you will absolutely remember, and uh, you'll probably agree, I think.

SPEAKER_02 13:40

Mm-hmm. I will say that there was a prediction I had that I have not mentioned yet that did not come to life, and I am disappointed in that. There's a certain way this movie anchors itself in the chronology of the franchise, and I was really hoping it'd go one specific direction and it didn't. Now I'm not totally broken up about that because I think what we get is solid, but it also felt like some of it was like a missed opportunity. That's I think might be the one thing that left like a semi in my mouth.

SPEAKER_01 14:15

I feel that I can think of two specific okay moments for me. Is it the way a character is or is not related to another character that you're referring to? Because if so, absolutely same. I think that was a real opportunity to do something that was like kind of insane and like very layered, you know? And who knows? Maybe they'll retcon it later on because at this point I think it's fair to kind of rewrite history in some cases with these franchises, as long as it can't be proven otherwise.

SPEAKER_02 14:48

Oh, yeah, there is also some logic in this movie about someone being a spawn of someone else, and I'm like, what the fuck is going on here? And it's just like I don't remember this in the last movie. Like this mathematically doesn't check out to me.

SPEAKER_01 15:04

Yeah, lots of characters neglecting to mention that they have children in movies we've watched a few times. Yes, I'm a mother, but that's the least important thing about me, which you know what work.

SPEAKER_02 15:14

That's a f that's fair. I mean, being a parent can't be your only identity. But I will say that Ghostface brings another layer of intensity in this movie that I think I've been missing for a long time.

SPEAKER_01 15:28

Okay. I can get on board with that in a sense. There is an element in which Ghostface steps it up in a way that I'd never even realized wasn't happening before.

SPEAKER_02 15:38

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 15:39

And then it started happening, and I was like, ooh, that's kind of spooky, which I loved.

SPEAKER_02 15:43

That's exactly what it is. It's just that one specific area where I'm like, okay, we swished it up a bit.

SPEAKER_01 15:50

Yeah. And I was like, oh, we could have done this before, but we never did, and we're doing it now, not mad. It's like when you realize that you could have been drinking raspberry, lime, seltzer water your entire life, but you've just been drinking regular water, and you're like, oh, well, why didn't I find out about this sooner?

SPEAKER_02 16:04

But I think even with that, it's not a particularly scary film. I think there's some like jump scare-e moments, but this feels like a good old classic hop along in the car, go for a ride with Scream, and it's not going to get you, I think it's then chills up your spine the way the first Scream movie does, but I think you will have fun like you did in Screams two through four.

SPEAKER_01 16:28

That's interesting, Chris. There's definitely a lack of successful jump scares, and there's a scene where I think they're actually making fun of jump scares. If you remember, it's a scene where somebody's alone at home, if that helps you at all.

SPEAKER_03 16:41

Oh yes.

SPEAKER_01 16:42

But I think there was maybe one jump scare that made me do it a little bit of a twitch, just like a uh uh oh, okay. This movie's definitely not scary. It's not a it's not giving James Wan, it's not giving other jump scare movies.

SPEAKER_02 16:56

It's not giving the James Wan jump scare factory.

SPEAKER_01 16:58

It's not.

SPEAKER_02 16:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 17:00

And that's okay.

SPEAKER_02 17:01

I can respect that. I mean, uh I don't think this movie ever really tries to scare you. I think it I think it tries to make you squirm. You know what I mean? Because there are moments for these characters where I think you're more along on the emotional journey for them than you are anything else. We're like a oh shit, he got wrecked. I think it's more of that kind of film.

SPEAKER_01 17:22

Yeah, I think Scream wants to make you squirm and it wants to make you think.

SPEAKER_02 17:26

But here's the thing about Scream Scream is a commentary. Scream separates itself from the genre and exists within the genre, but also poking not only fun at, but like an an analytical eye at. So I think the question of originality, it's it's like a pretty fluid one, right? How do you feel this one did when taking on requels?

SPEAKER_01 17:48

That is such a tough question. Pretty much with every Scream movie. There's a specific scene, and I think it's my favorite scene, where they kind of unpack in what way this particular movie is meta. And as it was happening, I was like, okay, okay, I can get into this. And as a result of that, I think I was able to view the movie through a different lens and kind of pick up on more things that I may not have otherwise picked up on. And I think that was very successful. I will say, if you are a fan of the original screen, this movie will feel very familiar to you. It's got very much the same structure, the same general plot points, um, turns of events, and sequence of events, I think specifically.

SPEAKER_02 18:34

That's fair, and I don't even think that's saying too much because that's just the nature of this type of film. It's not telling you who does what, it's not telling you who's wearing a mask, but it is saying the spirit of that film is very alive and well in this film, and this movie isn't trying to be original, but I will say I think I appreciate the rules that are shared in this movie more than any other.

SPEAKER_01 19:02

Even the original?

SPEAKER_02 19:04

Not necessarily the original. Because the original is iconic, it's Randy, right? But in terms of like the films that have come since then, I think this definitely trumps like the monologue that we get there and the explanation of and how it's so fucking perfectly tied into horror right now where we are.

SPEAKER_03 19:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:22

The the the commentary on horror as a genre in this movie feels so good.

SPEAKER_01 19:28

Yeah, definitely the acknowledgement of the elevation of horror. They refer to elevated horror a lot and mention some of my favorite horror movies. So I felt very much like this is a perspective that I can identify with and can appreciate the commentary, both positive and negative, on. As far as originality, I do feel like it's sort of taking your favorite denim jacket from 25 years ago and just kind of like putting some studs on it, maybe distressing it a little bit and then wearing it. Like it's it's a classic, but it's got a little bit of spice this time around.

SPEAKER_02 19:59

Oh, absolutely. And I think the other element of spice that comes in this movie is the way it concludes. I don't know if you want to tip your hand, but I think for me it's a it's a thumbs up on the ending. Some bits are a little problematic, but I think overall I did not leave a bad taste in my mouth.

SPEAKER_01 20:17

Okay, in some ways I wanted more, but ultimately I was left more on the satisfied side.

SPEAKER_02 20:25

I have some problems. I have some problems with some of the dynamics we end up realizing between some other characters, and there's quite a bit that that gets pulled in this movie that I think is a really cool angle, but looks a little hokey. We'll get there. But I think overall, for me, the end end, not the pre-end. For me, like the end puts a positive note.

SPEAKER_01 20:48

The end end. Like the resolution?

SPEAKER_02 20:51

Yeah, the end end, the final conclusion.

SPEAKER_01 20:54

Okay, yeah. I'm not mad about the end end. Anytime I think about the end, I think about like the big climax, the third act of it all. The way everything pans out, there were a couple surprises where I was like, ooh yay. And I'll leave it at that.

SPEAKER_02 21:06

Okay, well, let's see what the other side of that ooh yay was as we make our way into our ratings now. Before we actually score Scream from 2022, how many people died in this film?

SPEAKER_01 21:18

Eight people died in this movie in total.

SPEAKER_02 21:21

Which I think is shocking for me. That feels low for Scream.

SPEAKER_01 21:24

It feels low for this movie.

SPEAKER_02 21:25

Yeah, you do see a lot more than eight people worth of dying.

SPEAKER_01 21:29

Yes, absolutely that.

SPEAKER_02 21:30

But what about the animal report?

SPEAKER_01 21:32

Not an animal to be found in this film at all.

SPEAKER_02 21:34

Well, let's go ahead and get into our ratings and Scream from 2022. Was it a hacker or slash?

SPEAKER_01 21:39

This movie is a requel, which is a term I'd never heard before. Uh, the moment they said it and started talking about it, I said, Oh yeah, okay, I know exactly what a requel is. Got it, I'm on board. And I didn't realize we were getting a requel because I was like, wait, didn't we already do the reboot with Scream 4? And that's why I loved that this differentiated itself in that way because I was like, okay, this. This is what this is, got it. It helped me to identify like where to place this movie because I think otherwise you might have a little bit of a hard time placing it within the zeitgeist of the Scream universe. Now, I will say there are some characters in this movie that I'm kind of like on, and those characters may or may not play a somewhat significant role. But I think this movie delivers on scream. I think if you want scream, you absolutely get scream from this movie. I think they did a really good job being gentle with the sort of like pandering to fans of the original, because I think even though I'm not a huge fan of Halloween, I remember feeling like I was beaten over the head with like references to the original, like, oh look at that, and look at that. And like, no offense, Chris, you may have loved that. But for me, it's a little bit too on the nose when they do too much of it. So I like how they handle that with a level of subtlety and a level of nuance where it wasn't like completely beating you over the head while also maintaining a consistent through line with the connections to the original cast. Ultimately, this movie was a slash for me. I had a really good time watching it in the theater. This is my first screen movie I've ever seen in the in the theaters, so my hopes were really high. And ultimately, I'm just like satisfied. I'm happy. I would love to watch this again, like very soon. I think there's more to pick up on in a second watch now that like because there's always a different watch when you know who the killer is, you know? You pick up on things you didn't pick up on the first time, maybe realize some things that you did pick up on the first time were actually right, but you forgot. And if you are a fan of the Scream franchise or even just a fan of the original Scream film, there is something of value here for you. So you should watch it.

SPEAKER_02 23:34

I second that. I mean, what an incredible experience it was to watch this film in the theater, which the our theater was sold out.

SPEAKER_01 23:42

Yeah, our Dolby Theater.

SPEAKER_02 23:44

It was absolutely packed, but it didn't feel absolutely packed in the way that you typically have people who are just hooting and hollering and being obnoxious. This movie commanded a level of attention, respect, and almost like reverence from the audience and celebration of the film as you went along, which I think says a lot about the experience, right? When watching a requel in in franchises that I've loved, I mean, uh my bag is Halloween and Star Wars. Those two things we've already gotten the requels for. My bar is a little bit lower. I think Scream was one of those ones where it was gonna have to work really, really hard to disappoint me or upset me. There are a couple problems with this movie, for sure. It's not perfect, but in terms of being set out to be a love letter to the original, in order to be a love letter to Wes Craven and just you know what the original purpose was for that movie, I think this one nails it. The pacing is solid. I never feel bored at any point. I think the new characters that we get are surprisingly interesting and lovable in some ways. In other ways, they're like, oh, okay, there are some people I could care less uh less for. But I think what this really did was it learned the lesson from so many other of the films that have come in this franchise where it's so obvious who the killer is immediately. Sure, I think we may have uh problem solved and thought about some things pretty quickly, but I think this one has like the highest integrity level of like who did this, who didn't do this. You know what I mean? I think this one felt like a more fair game. And when I think about just the overall feeling, it felt like so much fun. The gore is great, the kills are violent.

SPEAKER_03 25:31

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:32

Even if it's smaller in number than I expected, it's greater in intensity. And I mean you you you fucking got ghost face. And I think ghost face and ghost face's antics, ghost face's clumsiness, ghost face's brutality. It's just really satisfying. The mix of the old and new is right on par for me. And with that, Scream 2022 with just us two is Universal Slash.

SPEAKER_01 25:59

Mm-hmm. Now, Chris, earlier today you actually told me something about Nev Campbell not being on board for making this movie initially because Wes Craven was obviously not going to be involved, but that the creators or the the writers of this film wrote her a letter about how what they wanted to do and how they wanted to do it, and that was what ultimately made her willing to come on board and excited to do the project. And I think that's absolutely revealed in the third act. You can see exactly like what it was that they said to her to get her on board, because I think the way it handles really a reincarnation of the original film, it does so in such a way that you can tell is done with respect, it's done with reverence, and it's also done with a really like laser-sharp wit and criticism of what we're going through in horror today.

SPEAKER_02 26:44

In short, it's brilliant.

SPEAKER_01 26:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:46

Well, you can find this movie in theaters only right now. I am so sorry to all of our friends in Canada who are on another lockdown and you can't see it in theaters yet. But when you get to watch it, join us in the second half so we can actually get to the spoilers together. We'll see you in a bit.

SPEAKER_01 27:16

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SPEAKER_02 27:58

Welcome back, folks. You are now entering the spoiler zone for Scream 2022, which has earned a universal slash, at least by the two of us here tonight. Now, before we get into the specifics of our ratings, we do have the matter of gore to attend to Paris and Alexis' absence. What's the gore score for this movie?

SPEAKER_01 28:15

I look forward to Alexis seeing this movie because the gore score is high.

SPEAKER_02 28:19

Ooh, and boy is it brutal.

SPEAKER_01 28:21

Yeah, we get a well, we only got eight kills, but now that we're in the spoiler-free section, I feel like we get maybe like 12 kills. It's just a lot of people survive those kills. But the things people are surviving these days are like multiple stabbings all over the body. And so you're basically getting a lot more kills than you're actually getting.

SPEAKER_02 28:39

Really? Like the opening non-kill with Tara. Oh my gosh, the brutality that that one endured.

SPEAKER_01 28:45

Tara was killed like three times.

SPEAKER_02 28:47

Exactly. Oh my gosh. Just I imagining just that knife going through her hand. I think that was the first time that you and I audibly went like, oh.

SPEAKER_01 28:56

Uh-huh. Because it's a hand knife. And we've been seeing a lot of those lately, I feel like. Knife through the hand.

SPEAKER_02 29:02

Mm-hmm. Like a shell through the heart and you're so vain.

SPEAKER_01 29:04

Exactly. Uh, I think though, like any scream movie should, in our third act, was where we we really get a ton of gore. Specifically, you want to talk about fave kills?

SPEAKER_02 29:16

Oh my gosh. We we all know it's Amber, right?

SPEAKER_01 29:19

No.

SPEAKER_02 29:20

What?

SPEAKER_01 29:20

Okay, yours can be amber.

SPEAKER_02 29:22

Who's yours?

SPEAKER_01 29:23

Mine's Richie.

SPEAKER_02 29:24

That was intense, yeah. No, that was that was that was good.

SPEAKER_01 29:26

So Richie's kill was when I had my hands up to my mouth, I think, for the final time. And that's because you have our girl, Sam, who, as we know, spoilers, if you've listened to this far, I'm sorry, it's too late for you. We gave you all the warning.

SPEAKER_02 29:41

We had a good commercial break and everything.

SPEAKER_01 29:43

Mm-hmm. This is Billie Loomis's daughter. And the whole time she's having these flashbacks of her still hot dad saying, like, you're a serial killer's daughter. You should just start stabbing people and killing them and doing all these things. And we really just see her resisting this the whole time. And then when she finally kills Richie, she lets loose, bitch. She inches her way to that knife. And the way she just started gutting this man, she probably stabbed him at least 25 times. It was so satisfying to just really see her go off, sis.

SPEAKER_02 30:15

Mm-hmm. And I love that because I think in some ways it was very kind of like how in Halloween we had the pumpkin kind of reforming back to life. And it was saying, Well, fuck all those other movies. In this way, it was almost as if the makers of this film, with their loyalties to Wes Craven, were saying, fuck you to the fandom who just wanted whatever bullshit that we've been wanting this whole time.

SPEAKER_01 30:36

Yeah, because at this point we know that Richie and Amber represent the fans, which are literally us, Chris. We were the killers in this movie.

SPEAKER_02 30:44

Yeah, but I was never mad at what was going on. I mean, they were they represent the toxic fans of Stab.

SPEAKER_01 30:49

I mean, but I think all of us have been guilty of sort of imagining like if we could write a better Scream movie, you know what I mean? And that's exactly what these killers tried to do.

SPEAKER_02 30:59

But I don't think it's about specifically Scream. I'm thinking about it even with like Friday the 13th, A Nightmare on Elm Street, Halloween. I'm not gonna lie, I could have been a little psycho richie about the 2007 Halloween. Fuck that movie.

SPEAKER_01 31:12

Honestly, that's you. And we all have something that we're in part of the fan base for where we're like, that one thing, fuck everybody that was involved in making that.

SPEAKER_02 31:21

Okay, but what would make you go Richie?

SPEAKER_01 31:23

Oh, it's tough. It's tough. I'm I'm deeply a part of the Pokemon fandom, which is maybe one of the most toxic fandoms of them all, because a lot of us are grown adults, but some of us don't quite realize that we're no longer the target audience for the games. Even though, in some way, like I actually saw a poll recently that was like the target audience is like 12-year-olds and 30-year-olds, and there's like a valley in between, which is really interesting. But it would probably be some kind of video game fandom.

SPEAKER_02 31:47

Hey, could I be this way about Twilight? No, I don't think I could.

SPEAKER_01 31:51

I don't think I'm that passionate enough to be this motivated by something I hate, you know?

SPEAKER_02 31:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:58

It would have to be something I love. And then I wouldn't be murdering people because I love it. But anyway, seeing Richie get stabbed so many times by Sam was very satisfying to me. Like when I think of Girl Boss unironically, I think of this scene from now on.

SPEAKER_02 32:14

It's so good. Honestly, and this is where Sam has pulled the entire movie, and I think even the restraint that we with which we got like Sydney and Gail, it was a strong presence, but it never felt distracted from her, from Sam, the central focus of this movie and her ambitions and drive as a sister. The fucking ferocity with which she stabbed him, it was the stuff of Ghostface's dreams. The intensity of those shanks, the speed at which she does them. She was giving into this darker side that makes me wonder what's in store for her next.

SPEAKER_01 32:52

Yes, because now that she's sort of unleashed the beast, what else is she capable of now that she knows she can do this, which is the utmost.

SPEAKER_02 32:59

Putting a pin into that brief thought about her lineage as we get into characters, but for me, favorite, I mean, obviously, Richie's death is so good. Each one of these kills had some great moments in it, but Amber's, I'm sorry, showing down, being a little brat. First off, the dynamic between Amber and Richie is gross. Like they're calling each other babe and hun.

SPEAKER_01 33:22

Oh, interesting. I just thought they were both losers. That didn't even occur to me, the age thing.

SPEAKER_02 33:27

Yeah, he's so much older than her.

SPEAKER_01 33:29

She's a high school student.

SPEAKER_02 33:31

She's a child. They never specify that Tara and her friends are all seniors or anything. They're just high school students and she looks like a child.

SPEAKER_03 33:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:38

So there's that element of it, but it's also the immediate oh, I'm getting my ass kicked and I'm getting accountability. I'm I'm I'm reaping consequences for my actions. Oh, wait, no, I'm just a dumb kid. I just wanted to belong to something. Yeah. All these shitty excuses that I fucking hate so much. And I mean, I sound like a crotchety old person right now, but it really is the pain in the ass of some of the youth. It really is. It's like this total lack of accountability. So to see her get it, get shot, and then for the stovetop to ignite her and just burn her to a crisp. Oh God, was that good.

SPEAKER_01 34:17

But also the fact that it was Gail and Sydney double teaming it and kind of being like, hey, do you want to kill this bitch or should I? Like, really, never really losing power. Like, yeah, they're kind of getting their asses kicked, but they're always in in control in some way. I think that was a really great uh element that made it even more satisfying. But specifically for me, the thing that made it like a real gag moment was that yes, she was shot, like stabbed, all of these things, and then caught on fire, but she was caught on fire in a way that made logistical sense because she had just been hit in the face with that bottle of hand sanitizer, and then the oven was this or the stove was on, and she when she fell onto it, it would make sense for her to just go up in flames. And I was like, you know what? They set up those pieces for that perfect little finale, and it worked.

SPEAKER_02 35:01

That was some final destination shit.

SPEAKER_01 35:02

It was some final destination shit, and it made sense, and I bought it.

SPEAKER_02 35:05

And the fact that she even has to say that it's hand sanitizer, but it's like it's also like a fuck. And it's like I think we all cringe when you hear her say that it's hand sanitizer, like in her fucking eyes, right?

SPEAKER_01 35:17

And wounds.

SPEAKER_02 35:18

Yeah, because also I I wouldn't have noticed that.

SPEAKER_01 35:22

I thought it was tequila.

SPEAKER_02 35:24

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 35:24

Which would have worked too.

SPEAKER_02 35:25

In the chaos of everything, it wasn't very, very apparent to me what that substance was. So for her to say that, and then you see the goopiness of it later.

SPEAKER_01 35:33

Oh, that's why it was goopy. I thought that was glass for some reason, but that makes sense. No, it was goop. Actually, in that case, here's a continuity error. When you burn hand sanitizer, it burns blue. So she should have been a blue flamin' bitch.

SPEAKER_02 35:44

I'm so glad you're here for the science of it. But would she still burn blue if she was also burning her skin, flesh, and clothes?

SPEAKER_01 35:51

I have no idea.

SPEAKER_02 35:53

Okay, this is what we need mythbusters for, apparently. Let's just burn a human alive and see what's going on.

SPEAKER_01 35:57

There's not enough of us on this episode to take accountability for science.

SPEAKER_02 36:01

Okay, but looking at that, the one thing that kills me is that we have our Billy moment with her as the stand-in for stew. Because she was the unhinged, like goofy one. She was the stew to Richie's Billy.

SPEAKER_01 36:18

I agree with that. I will elaborate more when we get to characters. Because I have something I want to say.

SPEAKER_02 36:25

Okay. It's burning.

SPEAKER_01 36:26

It is. It keeps just like running through my brain.

SPEAKER_02 36:28

Burning just like her.

SPEAKER_01 36:29

Uh yeah. There was another kill though that was going to be my favorite kill until we got to the ending. And it was actually Wes. Specifically because like the neck stab and like the way it came out on the other side.

SPEAKER_02 36:41

The little sleeve that just made for him.

SPEAKER_01 36:44

I was like, ooh, that's gross. And like the build-up to that kill like wasn't great. I do love this thing we're doing now where we get male shower scenes because we've had hundreds of exploitative female shower scenes across space and time. And I think for every one of those, we need to have an exploitative, or at least mildly exploitative, male shower scene. And until we've reached that threshold, the scales have not been balanced.

SPEAKER_02 37:09

See, nothing about his shower scene seemed even mildly exploitative.

SPEAKER_01 37:13

No, not at all. It wasn't even remotely turned on, but I'm glad it happened and that it was a guy and not a girl.

SPEAKER_02 37:18

I feel like we've just seen so many shower scenes. Like I've seen plenty of men in shower scene. I'm thinking about so many Friday the 13th movies where we see shower scenes in the fucking 80s.

SPEAKER_01 37:31

Yeah, I mean, because Freddie's gay.

SPEAKER_02 37:34

Jason.

SPEAKER_01 37:34

Oh, Friday the 13th. I'm thinking now you're on Elm Street.

SPEAKER_02 37:38

Friday on Elm Street, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:39

Where they have the gay shower scene.

SPEAKER_02 37:41

Nope. Different, different shower scene.

SPEAKER_01 37:44

Anyway, more male shower scenes. We need them. And also, that was a character that I didn't really care too much about.

SPEAKER_02 37:50

Okay, but can we talk about the big death of Dewey?

SPEAKER_01 37:53

Okay, fine, yeah, Dewey.

SPEAKER_02 37:55

I don't okay. I admit I was a little bit sad when Gail was calling him. And it's like he has this realization that he that she's calling him.

SPEAKER_01 38:04

Yeah, seeing Gail's face light up on that phone covered in blood was hard.

SPEAKER_02 38:08

A little sad. And seeing her reaction and her response to that was also sad.

SPEAKER_01 38:13

She sold it.

SPEAKER_02 38:14

Mm-hmm. I thought walking into it that they would have been able to do enough to make me tear up a little bit, but I didn't. I was I was emotionally prepared and ready, and thank thank God it was just Dewey and not Sydney. Uh I was ready for him to go. Because he is the tie. He is the connection. He's the one who calls Sydney, he's the one who calls Gail. But they don't necessarily speak to each other very directly. You know, I think for as much ha as many hatchets as Sydney and Gail buried, and obviously they get along well now, Dewey was their connection. He was the one that was connected to Sydney through Tatum and obviously through to Gail through love. I predicted that going in, but as soon as Sydney said, I'm never stepping foot back there, I knew the only thing that would get her there would be Dewey dying.

SPEAKER_01 39:08

Yeah. And now trauma is their bond.

SPEAKER_02 39:11

As if it wasn't already.

SPEAKER_01 39:13

Exactly, yeah. I honestly the Dewey kill, Dewey's always been my least favorite part of this entire franchise. He's kind of just there to give Gail something to kind of bounce off of, I think. I think Dewey being as Dewey as he is helps Gail to be as Gale as she is, and I love Dewey for that because I love Gail. Um but I could tell, like, as soon as they started making Dewey so likable in this movie, so much more likable than in any movie before. I was like, okay, he's gonna die.

SPEAKER_02 39:43

So when it happened, I was kind of just like, it was a really good send-off for him, though. I feel really good about that. I feel like if we got slapstick Dewey from any other movie, it would have been like meh meh.

SPEAKER_01 39:54

Yeah, I'm really glad we didn't because this is the most I've ever liked Dewey.

SPEAKER_02 39:57

He's matured, he's aged. Now, I don't know how I feel about the dynamics knowing that Amber was the one that killed him and just the way she kind of loomed over him for a bit there. They seem mismatched. And obviously we know it's not the actress who played Amber suited up as Ghostface, we know that. But it's the same fucking logical misstep as having Emma Roberts be Ghostface in Scream 4.

SPEAKER_01 40:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:25

Where you have a small young woman playing Ghostface, but then suddenly towering over these other guys.

SPEAKER_01 40:32

Well, never underestimate the power of a peep toe pump.

SPEAKER_02 40:35

His his death was vicious though. I mean, pumps aside, blooming aside. The fact that he was gutted in the front and the back and then just ripped up.

SPEAKER_01 40:45

Yeah, like shivved up the middle.

SPEAKER_02 40:47

Honestly, but I also love okay, going back to that thing I said about quotes in the trailer.

SPEAKER_01 40:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:53

Where they said, hello, Sydney. It's a it's an honor.

SPEAKER_01 40:56

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:57

The fact that it's an honor was actually just killing Dewey. Ooh, that was good.

SPEAKER_01 41:02

Yeah, I mean, and as a fan, it would be an honor to kill Dewey. I'm the one that killed Dewey, and I will always be the one that killed Dewey.

SPEAKER_02 41:08

You'll never take that away from me.

SPEAKER_01 41:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:10

You can take my life, but you can't take my pride.

SPEAKER_01 41:13

Yeah. Now, this scene is actually very closely tied to my favorite visual element, which I will say is an audio visual element. But in this movie, for the first time, we see Ghostface walking and talking. And they do a little close-up on Ghostface's like modulated costume in his neck that makes his voice sound ghostface-y, and as Ghostface is chasing down Tara in her little wheelchair, like poor girl, he's talking to her. Or and he's like talking on the phone as well. And I was like, Oh, we've never had Ghostface talking while killing. It's always like Ghostface calls, talks, does that bit, then separately, Ghostface comes in and kills you silently.

SPEAKER_02 41:56

Mm-hmm. But isn't it also weird that Richie still has the OG Ghostface voice changer later on? They go from this incredibly intricate and refined technology to this old clunky thing from the 90s.

SPEAKER_01 42:10

Yeah, I think they had a couple options. Because I think that specific suit that Amber was wearing also had the Kevlar vest, it had the built-in voice modulator.

SPEAKER_02 42:20

Tactical Ghostface, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:21

Yeah, it had at least an extra one foot of footwear on there to give her that height.

SPEAKER_02 42:26

How many oracles do you think that costs in the DVD store?

SPEAKER_01 42:29

Oh, more than I can afford for sure. Um, but just really it it brought Ghostface to a place that I'd never even considered before. And I was like, oh, I've I didn't realize I'd never seen Ghostface walking while talking and like taunting while killing simultaneously. And I love to see it, and I want to see more of that.

SPEAKER_02 42:43

Even when we were doing our watch along of the original scream, we were discussing at what points who which killer was who because the other one would have been on the phone at that point. Spooky.

SPEAKER_01 42:54

What's your favorite visual, Chris?

SPEAKER_02 42:56

Okay, look, it's intense. Uh this movie is so aesthetically pleasing, but it also I think puts a lot of the emphasis and focus on the characters and the dynamics because I think the cinematography in this film really just complements that. Nothing ever pulls focus from me except for one shot in particular. Okay. And it is the moment that Sam is told you're in Stu Mocker's house. How she doesn't know this, I don't fucking know. You think that this would be historically like the landmark if she knows enough to know that her father's Billy Loomis, a psychotic killer, she should probably know where this house is. I don't feel like that should have been a surprise.

SPEAKER_01 43:39

Yeah, the town she grew up in.

SPEAKER_02 43:41

Exactly. But the way the camera spins as it's pulling out, and you have this Dutch angle, and it feels just as off kilter as the opening scene of Scream 1996. Drew Barrymore talking on the phone. Things are just slightly off, and I fucking love that. I feel like the cinematic parallel. In terms of like how they framed their shots, were just subtle enough to really keep the rest of the story moving along without distracting from that.

SPEAKER_01 44:10

I love that you pointed out that shot as a visual element because I forgot that it happened in the moment you said it, I was like, oh yeah, that was a really good visual. Now I think you're right, that good cinematography almost goes unnoticed. I didn't have anything like jarring that was standing out there where I was like, oh god, that was so annoying, or like, oh, I hated how that looked. If you have a hard time thinking of a good visual element or even a notable visual element, it's because they did a good job of making that not the focus. You know? Whereas some movies obviously like found footage, different things where like that is the main thing. Scream, you're not here for like that kind of cinematography. You're here for high quality, goes unnoticed cinematography that if you look back on it, you can see like the real art form that's into it.

SPEAKER_02 44:54

Like consistency.

SPEAKER_01 44:55

Yes, consistency.

SPEAKER_02 44:57

Okay, so next professionalism. Next week we have the episode for sorority road 2009 dropping, and that was a movie where for me there was a clear, obvious, this is a beautiful shot. Like the cinematography in this moment alone with Stellar and a cut above the rest. It shouldn't be that way. It shouldn't be that disjointed. But Radio Silence who produced this film absolutely fucking nailed it visually.

SPEAKER_01 45:23

I totally agree.

SPEAKER_02 45:24

Now I will say that entire third act goes into my favorite scene.

SPEAKER_01 45:30

Oh yeah?

SPEAKER_02 45:31

Yeah, and uh okay, some of it's a little bit hokey. I have some problems with some things, but for me, it was the all right, let's fucking do this. It was like let's go to the Myers house in Halloween Kills. It was let's do a final showdown with Michael Myers in Halloween 2018. It was returning to Hollowed Ground, and I absolutely love that just from like a nostalgia and emotion perspective. I love Sydney and Gail showing up and Gail being totally unswayed by Amber pulling out a gun, um, yeah, obviously knowing that it's a trap.

SPEAKER_01 46:07

I love Yeah, wait, that was so good. I forgot about that.

SPEAKER_02 46:11

Yeah, what do you think? Definitely a trap.

SPEAKER_01 46:13

Yeah, like she just comes out like really hamming it up. Oh my god, he stabbed me, and neither of them even react. They're both like, mm-hmm is this bitch lying? Yeah, I think she's full of shit.

SPEAKER_02 46:21

Yeah, she's just as hysterical as fucking Stu.

SPEAKER_01 46:24

Yeah, their bullshit radar was flying off.

SPEAKER_02 46:27

Mm-hmm. Because they're wise, experienced women.

SPEAKER_01 46:31

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 46:31

Mm-hmm. Can't pull that fucking wool over their eyes. But it it was that realization, it was the parallels that we get to the original film. I love having Mindy Meeks Martin on the couch watching the stab movie of her uncle's death, who she never met, while Ghostface is also in back of her, and she actually learns from her own fucking lesson that he lived 25 years before of look behind you, Jamie.

SPEAKER_01 46:59

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 47:00

So fucking brilliant.

SPEAKER_01 47:01

And very satisfying. Because you can't I can't watch that again. I can't watch somebody make that same mistake technically a third time, both in the original scream, in the stab movie, and then in this scream.

SPEAKER_02 47:10

The fact yeah, the fact that she says, Oh shit.

SPEAKER_01 47:13

Yeah, looks in and ultimately survives because of that.

SPEAKER_02 47:17

Mm-hmm. But I will say, I was a little sad that she didn't play a bigger role. I really thought that Mindy was gonna have a Gail Weathers picks up the gun and shoots Billy moment. I thought we were gonna have a Gail stole the gun from the kitchen counter whilst do and Billy were preoccupied with Sydney moment. So much happens in that fucking kitchen. I thought for sure she'd be the one to come in and clutch. I was a little disappointed that she was relegated to being wounded and then just kind of coming through at the end.

SPEAKER_01 47:48

I'm right there with you. Even when we were doing our body count, neither of us truly counted her out because we knew she was she was not dead. But I wanted her to come back and do something and contribute. But I also love that that scene took place in the exact same kitchen. It was so satisfying to me.

SPEAKER_02 48:04

The parallels are just ooh.

SPEAKER_01 48:06

Mm-hmm. My favorite scene, Chris, also involves a couch similar to the one in Stu's house that we know so well from that scene. And it is the scene where one, we find out that the twins are related to Randy by some copulation of the imagination, and it's where we have Mindy really breaking down what it means to be a requel. Because one, I think we've been building up to this like lesbian horror fan bad bitch moment for a long time. It started with Randy, and then we got Sarah Michelle Geller in Scream 2, and then we get Kirby in Scream 4. And this time they said, here she is. What you've all been waiting for, it's Mindy giving you the full stop T on what it means to be a fan of horror, what it means to be survive a requel, and what a requel even is. And she introduced me to this term tonight, and now I fully understand it. It's something I'm already familiar with, but I didn't I've never heard it articulated in the way that she did. But it was also a sort of balance of here are the rules. It's it's another one of the role scenes that we love from these movies, but also like a very almost playful tone of like, Well, I think it was you, and like, well, what if it's you? And like these like gentle but half serious, half-joking accusations of like who's murdering everybody. And the way that that kind of continued throughout the rest of the movie I found to be really enjoyable. Like the way none of these friends would really trust each other. We even have the scene where Chad is hesitant to go upstairs with his girlfriend Liv and like have sex because he's not completely convinced that she's not the killer.

SPEAKER_02 49:47

Oh, I absolutely love that scene. Never have I been so endeared to a character as in that moment. Because also, let's just point out that Chad and Mindy are the only ones who are doing things that are actually logical and calling people out on their bullshit. I love that he's just like, um, I'm like 90% sure, you know. Yeah. But like, we can just down here all the witnesses. And she walks off. He's like, that's a totally fair emotional response.

SPEAKER_01 50:17

Yeah, because she gets pissed off, of course, but she's not that's valid.

SPEAKER_02 50:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:22

I think also it's great when we have Richie going into the basement alone to get beer and he's like, Oh, will you come with me? And Minnie's like, Oh, absolutely the fuck not, but you were right to ask. And she was right to say no because he was the killer.

SPEAKER_02 50:34

Absolutely. Do you think he would have killed her down in the basement?

SPEAKER_01 50:37

Probably.

SPEAKER_02 50:38

Mm-hmm. He probably just got dressed and went up there.

SPEAKER_01 50:40

Yeah, that's exactly what happened.

SPEAKER_02 50:42

Yeah. I was just trying to figure out the yeah, because Tara was with Amber, so it had to have been him.

SPEAKER_01 50:48

Yeah. What a dick.

SPEAKER_02 50:50

Spare ghost face costume right underneath the stairs. But let's also point out that Mindy was alone with Amber down in the basement and scared her.

SPEAKER_01 50:56

Yeah. And that was a really great scene too, where Mindy was calling them out on their shit. I think it's pretty obvious to the listeners by now that Mindy is one of the star characters of this movie for us.

SPEAKER_02 51:06

Absolutely. For as much as I loved that Sam and Tara were like a sister tandem anchoring this movie, Mindy really brought it home.

SPEAKER_01 51:15

She really did. I'm also watching Yellow Jackets, which I'm sure I've mentioned on the pod before. But the actress Jasmine Savoy Brown is also in that, and she is incredible. She's one to watch, that girl.

SPEAKER_02 51:25

Absolutely. So what's interesting is that we get her and her brother Chad, who both live.

SPEAKER_01 51:32

Ugh.

SPEAKER_02 51:33

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 51:33

Haughty hot hot hot. That Chad makes Martin.

SPEAKER_02 51:36

Yeah. So Wes Craven apparently always regretted killing off Randy in Scream 2. So this is the redemption of Randy.

SPEAKER_01 51:45

Hell yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:46

I mean, granted, the parallels, Randy survived in Scream from the get-go. So I think had they actually died, it would have been more of a disservice and un and and not true to the original at all. But I love the fact that we get this connection to him, and I love that we bring back his sister. It was just a bit part that she hadn't screamed too, and I love that we just brought her back in to keep the canon strong.

SPEAKER_01 52:08

I loved seeing her as well. Because when they were like, Oh, Randy's nieces and nephews, I was like, Does that mean his sister's here from Princess Diaries?

SPEAKER_02 52:16

And the answer is yes. Okay, but the bullshit about Amber. I don't like Amber.

SPEAKER_01 52:22

You know, Chris, I don't like Amber either. And it was upsetting to me.

SPEAKER_02 52:28

Yeah. It was a honestly a really disheartening, disappointing mix of Stu and Jill.

SPEAKER_01 52:35

Yeah. I think, and I've this is a thought that I've had before, where I'm grateful to be in a place where we have so many incredible female characters, performances to choose from, where we can have some and honestly say, like, that wasn't quite it. You know what I mean? Before it was like, oh, there's only one, and this is what we have to work with. Now we have about a half dozen in this movie, and I loved almost all of them. But Amber, the whole time I kept thinking of the line where Stu says, and let's face it, Sid, your mom was no Sharon Stone. And I was just like, let's face it, Amber, you're no Stu.

SPEAKER_03 53:10

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 53:11

And you could tell she was trying to be, and she was trying to do like big the like make the big choices, do the over-the-top kind of hysterical thing. And it just like never went far enough for me.

SPEAKER_02 53:20

You're no Matthew Lillard. You just can't, you can't do that. Stu is Stu. You could have been different. You could have been an angered Amber. The look she has on her face when she pulls out a gun and shoots Liv in the head, and everybody's like, oh shit. That was intense. That was like a okay, I saw it coming, but that was like a a type of presence that I could respect in Amber if she maintained that.

SPEAKER_03 53:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:47

But when she just lost her shit and started going off bucking crazy and becoming a totally different person, I don't know. It seemed like a kid on a sugar rush.

SPEAKER_01 53:56

It felt like maybe it was a little bit overthought. Um, but you're right, like the scene where she shoots Liv, I was like, oh, damn, there's that part of you there. And then you see that same exact quality when she's faking her performance in front of Gail and Sydney, and then they're like, um, I don't know about this. And she's like, oh well, fuck it, and just pulls a gun out and shoots Gail. Like that energy I really loved from the actress. You're right, when she started doing her monologue, it kind of just went off in a direction. I went off in a couple different directions, and I don't know that it was the most successful thing for me. I would venture to say that it might be the worst part of the movie for me, and I feel bad about this because I want to like Amber, but I don't.

SPEAKER_02 54:37

Amber feels uninspired to me. Amber has felt like the killer ever since the beginning of the movie where he's recording Amber.

SPEAKER_01 54:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:47

There's no fucking way.

SPEAKER_01 54:48

Yeah, we talked that from the beginning.

SPEAKER_02 54:49

There's no fucking way Ghostface would record someone else and there'd be absolutely nothing that fucking happens to them. Okay, it's a little bit convenient. Oh, her phone to clone. He doesn't clone anyone else's phone.

SPEAKER_01 55:01

Yeah, and like half of the time the messages are coming from Amber's phone directly.

SPEAKER_02 55:05

Exactly. And that's that's the thing. It's like this little throwaway line of, oh, it must have been a clone. But no, it's not the fucking clone wars. This is just fucking scream and she's in on it. That's it.

SPEAKER_01 55:18

Yeah. I was also expecting Richie to be in some way related to Stu, just because they have the same coloring, I guess. And I think Richie would have been a better Stew and Amber would have been a better like anchor, like straight man like Billy was.

SPEAKER_02 55:33

Yeah, that that I could have respected. I don't think that Jack Quaid playing like a crazy kind of stew energy would have done it for me. But I could have bought something because he he even had like a little hysterical laugh every now and again. Like he got really excited. If that was the most we got from him and that was the stew cipher, that's great. I'm I'm here for it. But what also killed me was the fact that we just get another retreat of Billy Loomis. Yes, Billy Loomis was Sidney Prescott's boyfriend. We get it. He was may have been the brains, but he was only half of the tandem. I really thought that this movie was going to be Stu's uh resurgence, his comeuppance, his resurrection, the how could you forget me? Why is it all about Billy when this is me?

SPEAKER_03 56:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:25

I was here, I was involved, or some relative. Like, how could you forget about him? You know what I mean? The fact that we got Billy's mom, then we get Sidney's brother, then we get Sidney's cousin, and then we get Billy's daughter, sure, okay. Like I I get it. But the other weird thing for me is that they treat Billy like Anakin Skywalker. You haven't even watched a lot of Star Wars.

SPEAKER_01 56:51

I don't even know if you know I think I've seen every Star Wars movie except the last one.

SPEAKER_02 56:55

The very last one.

SPEAKER_01 56:56

Yeah, where everyone's mad about.

SPEAKER_02 56:58

Okay, so here's the thing in Star Wars, Anakin becomes evil, right? He becomes Darth Vader, then he gets redeemed. And then somehow inexplicably in The Force Awakens, Kylo, who is his nephew, is is like worshiping him as Darth Vader. But it's like, bro, how do you not know that your own uncle was a good guy? Like at the end of it all. Like he's fine, he was a hero. So it does that, and it does this like guiding through the force kind of situation where it's like you're looking at a villain and treating him like he was a fucking hero.

SPEAKER_03 57:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 57:33

And I don't know how much I enjoy slightly de-aged Skeet Ulrich as Billy. I'm not mad at the whole thought. I think the first couple times we see him was kind of cool because I think they did a more successful job.

SPEAKER_03 57:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 57:49

But there's a point where it's just like you can get rid of the wrinkles all you want. Your man's isn't as skinny as he was. Like he looks like a grown man.

SPEAKER_01 58:00

Interesting.

SPEAKER_02 58:00

Like his ghost hasn't aged. That doesn't make sense.

SPEAKER_01 58:04

It hadn't quite occurred to me that they were trying to really 100% go for how he was when he died. I just imagine that like this is what he looks like as a dad, but also in the same look and condition he was in as he would be remembered.

SPEAKER_02 58:20

So that kind of energy I can go for, except for the fact that there's like blood in the same spots. Which I love the continuity and the intention to detail. But it just felt like a ghost coming back, and it should have been a young ghost.

SPEAKER_01 58:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 58:35

It felt like, what the fuck did we do with Billy's force ghost? Like what what happened? You know what I mean? I didn't hate it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:44

I just thought it looked like Dad Billy.

SPEAKER_02 58:46

Again, do I hate it? No. Am I disappointed slightly? Yes. Now I could probably watch this movie over and over again and fucking love it. I do appreciate that he came back for it. I just think for where we are, I want to hear more about the filmmaking process, and I want to know why they made the choice to have him exactly the way he is. Because they could have they could have gone full dad Billy and just not de-aged him at all.

SPEAKER_01 59:14

But he died when he was 18.

SPEAKER_02 59:16

Exactly, Paris. You see my problem here.

SPEAKER_01 59:19

I guess.

SPEAKER_02 59:20

This isn't 18-year-old Billy, and it's not full dad Billy.

SPEAKER_01 59:22

This is like some sort of amalgamation. Yeah. They botoxed him down, but they couldn't get him down to 18.

SPEAKER_02 59:30

It's like you just ran out of budget at the end there. I don't know. And again, I want to hear more on the th th the thoughts and the filmmaking process because it could be a very specific reason that it just changes my opinion totally. However, again, it looked really good the first couple times, and that last time looking in the mirror, looking down at the knife, I thought he was gonna go for the umbrella, like the umbrella hit him in the chest.

SPEAKER_01 59:55

Absolutely expecting the umbrella kill.

SPEAKER_02 59:58

So I don't I don't know. It was just a little meh for me.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:01

Now, is this your worst part?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:03

I think him, like Ski Orich being in this movie is not my worst part, but I do think the worst part is a tie of it being solely linked back to Billy Loomis's legacy again. And then also the weird fucking romantic relationship between Richie and Amber.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:22

Okay. Yeah, I mean, now that you point that out, it it feels like every time it's two killers, there's always they're always fucking. Like I'm pretty sure Billy's mom was fucking that student.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:34

Okay, I didn't get that energy at all. I know he had mommy issues, but I don't think he I didn't get like any sexual attention from.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:41

Anytime two people go in on a ghost face con together, they are always having carnal relations. The jig is up from the very beginning. Stu and Billy gay, Billy's mom and that college student sex, and then Emma Roberts and that loser fucking. So it only makes sense that these two would be copulating their sick, twisted relationship. But yeah, the age thing there, definitely suspicious.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:06

Um worse no worse part for you. Alright. Did you have anything else that you wanted to elaborate on with Amber? You said I have something to say.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:14

But she was no. Now, even though that relationship was really like fucked up and insane, I did like the approach, I think, overall, to it just being two fans of the franchise. Just two horror fans that found each other on the internet on the subreddits and realized, hey, the movies lately have been sucking ass. The only way we can get more good movies is if we give them some source material because they're better when they're based off of real things. Now, really not sure what their actual end game was because what do they kill everybody except themselves and then they're the stars? Like, were they gonna stab each other to make it look like they were also victims of Ghostface? I don't know that they fleshed that out as fully, or maybe they didn't allude to it as much as I would have liked. But I think it was definitely an interesting take that I did not necessarily see coming as far as the motivation goes.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:09

I did appreciate that. I'm really excited about the angle that they took there. I think Richie's obsession with the fandom when he talks about how can it be toxic? It's made from love. It's just I get it. There are some things that some people get real upset about, and they're just like strong fighting words about with some of these franchises. For me, it's Halloween 2007, but it's fun. But the toxicity of fandom, and I think the intensity with which we carry things is excellent commentary for this latest iteration of Scream to have.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:42

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:43

And for that, I am so excited to watch this again. I am probably gonna see it at least two more times during its theater run.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:50

Yeah. Maybe I'll see it one more time during its theater run. I'm not like excited to like go back into a theater just because you know, health and safety and also money. I'm cheap. So I want this to be streamed available as soon as possible so I can watch it again because I will absolutely be watching it again.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:06

Streaming sounds ideal, obviously. I do plan on seeing at least twice more, though, like in the middle of the day in Dolby with my AMC A-list, so I can get my A-list worth this month.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:16

Yeah, a big empty Tuesday morning matinee. Oh, yeah. Nice, where it's like you and like a couple old ladies.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:23

Ooh, that's the good shit.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:24

That's the best time.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:25

Mm-hmm. Two old ladies fawning over David Arquette, probably.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:30

And to your point earlier about the fandoms and how sometimes they can be so passionate to the point where they're toxic. I think if this movie gets a lot of hate, it would really only prove the movie's point.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:47

It really would.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:48

You know what I mean? It's like, okay, so we know which fan you are.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:51

It probably would. So far the reviews have been stellar for it. So we'll see. We've already gotten a message in our inbox from one of our patrons asking if the killer's motive makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:02

I think the killer's motive makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:04

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:04

I think when unhinged people are radicalized by finding others with shared values on the internet, anything can happen, like the storming of our capital, or anything like that. A couple murders in a small town seems like a cakewalk compared to things like that. I think the next killer should be motivated by conspiracy theories they read online.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:24

I think a conspiracy theory killing could actually be really, really interesting. I don't know that I want to see it more in this franchise because I feel like right now, as it stands, this feels like a solid end. This feels like a good concluding chapter, at least for Sydney and Gail.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:41

Wait, can we talk about the passing of the torch?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:43

The literal and figurative. Oh God, they're gonna enjoy that torch.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:48

I forgot about that. She's like, Are you ready to pass the torch? She said, Yeah, bitch, enjoy it, and then sets the bitch on fire. Ugh. So good. I totally agree though, Chris. But it has me wondering, where do we go from here? Even though I wonder that after every scream movie, I'm like, how can we keep it going?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:04

Well, when I was in the bathroom, a la scream two after this movie, I did not put my ear up to any stalls to get a knife in my ear, but I did overhear some people trashing on scream three, friends with their other non-horror friends bringing them in, explaining the franchise, and then saying, you know, they've been talking about making other movies with the sisters in Mindy.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:28

Nice. That's what I want. I'm absolutely here for this new generation of cast members. They killed off the ones I didn't really like, and they kept the ones I liked. So I would definitely watch another one. Are we gonna be going back to like a like this is the fresh start, and we're gonna be getting new Scream movies like every couple years or so now? Because I don't want to have to wait another eleven years.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:46

Who knows? But more to come. We'll see how things shake out. I think the important thing is that for now, Scream 2022 has earned a universal slash.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:56

And I think when our friends see this. They will make the right choice.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:02

I think so too. I don't think this is gonna be a hard sell. And here's the thing. We are recording this immediately after leaving the theater. There is so much that we've talked about here, but there's even more that we haven't talked about yet. So please, by all means, let us know what you think and keep in mind that there are a number of ways that you can reach out to us. If you're listening to this on Patreon, comment down below with your thoughts and we'll keep adding on there as we do our re-watches in theaters. But there are other ways you can reach out, like our website, hackerslash.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:38

And if you're a super fan of the Scream franchise and you think you could write a better movie than this, you can also reach out to our Hackerslash Hotline, just like our friend Jazz did. You can leave us a voicemail at 757-606-0128, or just visit hackerslash.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:56

Or if you'd rather write up your own fanfiction, feel free to send that over to us in an email to feedback at hackerslash.com.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:04

And finally, if you've enjoyed listening to this episode, consider becoming one of our patrons. You can visit patreon.com slash hacker slash to earn cool perks for as low as one dollar a month.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:13

We'll see you next time, folks. And remember, how can fandoms be toxic? They're made from love.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:18

Bye.