196: Sorority Row (2009)

SPEAKER_00 0:04

I think anybody should be able to see anything and just like watch your fucking kids.

SPEAKER_02 0:13

Greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hacker Slash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. I saw what you did. If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack, a total joke, waste of time, or a slash.

SPEAKER_01 0:29

Totally killer, pun intended.

SPEAKER_02 0:31

We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, we're rating these movies with the perspective we've gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast. This week I'm joined by the Superfly Space Guy Mac. Hola muchachos, the gore lover Alexis, hey everyone, and the Scream Queen Paris.

SPEAKER_00 0:51

Friend me on Facebook, I'll totally confirm.

SPEAKER_02 0:53

The people have spoken this week, and our patrons have decided we're traveling back to 2009 to cover a collegiate slasher. Before we get down to business though, we have some follow-up.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

Let's follow up on a movie. Okay, we recently reviewed Brahm Stoker's Dracula, and I can never help myself from saying Brahm Stoker. And I don't think anyone out there can blame me. But we wanted to hear what our listeners thought. We reviewed the movie. I think it was just me, Mac, and Chris, is that right?

SPEAKER_04 1:17

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 1:18

Just us girls. Well, we had a fun time with the movie. I think we gave it a universal slash, but it doesn't matter until the listeners vote. And they voted. And it remains a universal slash. I think this is only the second time in history this has ever happened. That is, you know what? I feel vindicated right there.

SPEAKER_02 1:35

Wasn't Jennifer's body a universal slash all around?

SPEAKER_00 1:39

I think. Was that the first time it happened?

SPEAKER_02 1:41

And so was Silence of the Lambs.

SPEAKER_00 1:42

Okay, so maybe this is the third time. No one knows for sure. But I wasn't on Jennifer's body, so it doesn't count.

SPEAKER_03 1:49

And I wasn't on Brahm Strokers.

SPEAKER_00 1:51

So nothing counts, but it all counts.

SPEAKER_03 1:53

Yeah, it doesn't count.

SPEAKER_00 1:54

I think canonically in the canon, it does count. Moving right along, we have a couple comments from our listeners. Darren had this to say. So this film is a mixed bag. Great set design. I loved Gary Oldman. Overall, the film looks amazing, but in the end, it's style over substance. Keanu is horribly miscast, and his performance is terrible. The pacing is all over the place, and the bloated runtime doesn't do anyone any favors. Having said all that, I'm going to have to give this a softest of slashes. It's just about enough to entertain me, so I can't hack this film. Oh, by the way, here in the UK, what you call jello, we call jelly and jam. We spread on toast. Hope that helps.

SPEAKER_02 2:30

Oh, that is helpful. I forgot we had that conversation in that specific episode.

SPEAKER_00 2:34

We also have another comment for one of our newest patrons, Jazz. Jazz, first of all, thank you so much for joining the Patreon family, and thank you so much for this review because I can't wait to read it right now. Jazz said this. This review hurt me. Mainly because Gary Oldman's Dracula was my sexual awakening. I give it a slash. It wasn't as good as I remember it being, but I still think all horror and vampire fans should definitely watch it.

SPEAKER_02 2:57

Okay, Jazz. I just need to know specifically Gary Oldman as old Dracula was your sexual awakening, or just in this movie, young Dracula, period.

SPEAKER_00 3:07

Hot young Dracula, probably. But also both ways, Jazz, you've found your people and we are here. It's gotta be Dracula as like the werewolf thing.

SPEAKER_02 3:16

Or is it just Gary Oldman? Aside from Dracula.

SPEAKER_00 3:19

I think D all of the above. That's right. And that's our follow-up.

SPEAKER_02 3:22

Well, speaking of patrons, this week the power is with the people as we unpack a film that won their vote by a landslide. This film is a remake of an 80s slasher that was originally inspired by a 1955 French film. While the original 80s film has gone on to be considered one of the greatest slashers, its successor totes a low approval rating and is flown under the radar. This film features yet another prank gone wrong, a move that's become a staple of many slashers, and explores the reckoning our main characters encounter when someone begins hunting them down. This week, after winning 45% of the overall patron vote, we're talking about sorority row.

SPEAKER_01 3:58

Okay, so Zach nominated this film, and Zack says, Honestly, whenever I found this movie, I saw the cover and knew what I was getting. A slasher flick with primarily females taking front and center stage and set in college. I bought it when I was younger, and I just fell in love with it. Yes, it may not be my favorite, but I can see it as a guilty pleasure or something that definitely is different from other horror flicks and takes a nice little spin on a certain horror classic, with a killer I never really saw coming, in my opinion. I have a love for this just based on early 2010s vibe and was a breath of fresh air with how witty the characters are, and how most of the douchebag guys get what is coming to them for being, well, assholes. I love this movie. It's not my top ten by any means, but if someone put this on, I could definitely see how it combines many different aspects of other films to make itself unique.

SPEAKER_03 4:42

I appreciate that, Zach. I really love that 2010s vibe that you get in horror.

SPEAKER_01 4:48

And you know, some of our patrons had some comments to add to this nomination. Jazz says sorority row is the only one I've never heard of. So now I'm interested in watching it and reviewing with y'all. Matt says, I feel like all female ensemble horror movies have such a bad rep in the horror community. So I'm really feeling right at home from the high demand for sorority row. Lol. It's an objective slash from The Kills Alone. And Anthony says, Sorority row, I absolutely love this movie for the same reasons Paris loves Jennifer's body. I would like to hear his take on this one. And finally, Amber, this was a tough voting choice. Awesome movie selection. While it's not my favorite film, absolutely love sorority row. Super fun, and I would be interested to see how many hacks and slashes it earns.

SPEAKER_03 5:28

I love how everyone is obsessed with this movie or seems to really enjoy it. I've heard of it. It sounds vaguely familiar. I know we'll talk about it later, but I love the excitement coming from everyone.

SPEAKER_00 5:39

Yeah, it seems to be a movie that people really enjoy, but it's nobody's fave, which I think that's probably fair. Um and Anthony, I am also looking forward to giving my takes on this movie. When I saw that a movie called Sorority Row was up for voting in the polls, I was trying to go to the patrons into voting for that one, and I think it's been a couple rounds, but now we're finally doing it. Because just like sorority row as a movie obviously sounds like something that I would probably like.

SPEAKER_02 6:02

Well, let's see if their prediction was right. But for now, who's seen this one before?

SPEAKER_01 6:06

You know, I had never heard of this until we were gonna watch it, and I never saw the original either.

SPEAKER_03 6:12

Same boat. Um, never seen it, but I feel like it sounds vaguely familiar, so maybe it sounds like something else.

SPEAKER_00 6:20

So here's the thing. I have never seen this movie or heard of it. But when I saw that Audrina Patras was in it, I thought, I feel like I remember her being in a horror movie at some point in the 2000s. So maybe somewhere in my distant periphery, I did know that this movie existed. But it was definitely my first watch.

SPEAKER_02 6:34

I've seen this movie before and I recalled it being a fairly competent movie. It never really stood out as being particularly special to me, but I think that's because in my mind it was vaguely blurred with like April Fool's Day and a number of other print gone wrong slashers in the early 2000s. So I didn't walk away with any pure love or distaste for this movie in any way, but but this being your first experience, what were you all expecting?

SPEAKER_01 7:00

So I'm thinking 2010s, typical, like you know, from 2000 to 2010, honestly. I expected like a green color filter, really bad dialogue, and a bunch of 30-year-olds playing 21-year-olds.

SPEAKER_03 7:12

Interesting. Mine was very similar. I said this is really just gonna be a typical slasher, maybe not as upfront with its views um as Black Christmas is, but definitely sorority girls, something someone's being killed, gotta find the killer. And I, to be honest, wasn't actually excited to watch this at all because I figured that this is what it was going to be about, and I was not excited.

SPEAKER_00 7:40

Yeah, I was definitely expecting some sort of sorority shenanigans. I was hoping for like a predominantly female cast, which you know I love. Uh, and I was honestly expecting to like this. Based on what the patrons have told me about this movie, it seemed like something that I would enjoy. So my hopes were kind of high. There was a bar and it was set when I sat down to watch this.

SPEAKER_02 8:02

At face value, this does seem like a Paris movie. When I was sitting back and reflecting on how I felt about it the first time around, I was trying to remember the big moments from this movie. And this was a movie that I saw before I ever fell into the obsession of pretty little liars. So I was considering, okay, this is very, I know what you did last summer. This is very Valentine's Day. This is very terror train. This is a lot of things I've already seen, except it comes at a point in time where culture is really soaked in like mean girls' energy. Not mean girls, the great movie with Lindsay Lohan, but just mean girls, as in women are catty and terrible people, and they're gonna be awful to each other on screen. And that's something that kind of washed over me when I was younger, and I've grown to hate with a passion over the years, right? Just in becoming an adult. So I think I expected this to feel pretty bad this time around. And I I remember sitting down watching this, I'm like, all right, I really hope this doesn't feel as dated as I expect it to be. And the unfortunate thing is I think for me the dialogue and the cattiness were extremely dated. It's also a tough watch because I completely forgot how far they go to show the prank the girls pull in the opening of the movie. And that can be incredibly triggering for people. That that was something that was completely lost on me when I first watched it. And I I completely forgot how much it lingers on that. So I think that's something where if you sit down to watch this movie, I think you should just be aware that there are like think about the college experience and think about the trauma that so many women encounter on a regular basis and realize that you could see this in the first few moments of this film, and it may just leave a bad taste in your mouth.

SPEAKER_00 9:48

And also, like in one of the most bizarre contexts I could have possibly imagined. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 9:54

It takes it very lightly, which is very off-putting. And the rest of the film, aside from that, just felt like a really like cookie-cutter 2000s teen horror flick. It just felt really predictable. While watching it, I kept trying to imagine where have I seen this before? Because I haven't seen this and I haven't seen the original. I was getting some major like April Fool's Day vibes in certain times. I was getting some totally major prom night vibes. It just feels like I've seen five other movies that feel like this. And so, like, as you're watching, you're thinking, This is obviously what's gonna happen next, this is obviously what's gonna happen next. And also I hate everyone on screen because it just seems like some really crappy characters.

SPEAKER_03 10:35

Yeah, that opening scene also got me and it was kind of like a feeling where I was like, what the fuck am I actually watching? Because then it's followed by these really weird party scenes, which I hate in movies, because I don't know about y'all, but I've never even witnessed a high school party like that, nor a college party like that. But you know what? I wasn't invited to the sorority or frat ones in in college. But this movie, while watching it, was really surprising, you know, within the first 10 minutes, within the first you know, I mean, just everything was surprising. The cast, very surprising, some characters I was baffled by. I'm like, why are they in this movie? But even all the way up until the end, I think for me, it holds this suspense and all these surprises that really kept me entertained throughout the movie.

SPEAKER_00 11:29

So I had a multitude of feelings while watching this. Initially, I was kind of like, uh, like the opening shots that we get, I was like, okay. I mean, obviously, I kind of expected this, but the extent and like the the execution, I was like, mmm, kind of sleazy, kind of dirty feeling. Um, and then I was really shocked with just the way some of the girls were talking about certain things, and I was like, what is this? Like I said, bizarre. Uh, there's a scene in this that is very just baffling, and I kept trying to like think like, did a man or a woman write this? Like, who made this? Because it's really confusing me. Um, but then there were parts where I was like laughing a lot. I think a lot of the dialogue was pretty shitty, but some of it also made me laugh. So there were parts where I was like, okay, this writing is terrible, and then I was like, oh, this writing's actually kind of good. And I was going back and forth with that. I also felt like some of the characters, and specifically some of the actors, were actually giving really solid performances, but it was not consistent. Like some of these people should never have been put on film, and some of these people, I'm surprised they haven't built like larger careers since this project. Um, but ultimately I think my feelings were light and entertained.

SPEAKER_02 12:37

I think light and entertained is a really good way to put it. I think the reality is that I was disappointed by quite a bit in this movie, but I think it's the things that I knew I was gonna be disappointed by going into it. I was surprised by, despite being able to remember the chronology of this movie, how much I simultaneously remembered and then forgot at the same time. Like I forgot the horrificness of that opening scene and just the attentiveness that some characters have and the total lack of it that other characters have. But in terms of an even bigger surprise, was how much that datedness didn't completely destroy the experience for me. This is something that I think this movie has a level of camp written into its dialogue. Some of it's very tongue-in-cheek. Some of the dialogue is delivered in ways that had anyone else on this cast delivered it, or had they cast a different actress in this scene, I for sure think it would have fallen flat. But I think where this movie shines in some ways is that you have incredibly talented women delivering these moments, and they're kind of salvaging what I think is poor writing in other places. And it's it's like it's almost on the verge of being self-aware. Like some of it is self-aware for sure. This movie is campy in a lot of places, and I think it's not lost on the women who are actually acting and living in these roles. But I feel like it's trying really hard to say something, but it doesn't it's not quite good enough to fully say it, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 14:11

I I think that makes complete sense to me. I I think it unfortunately aims for mediocrity, where like you could easily see this made today with the right team, and like it it would be like our favorite. They could completely redo this and have like some meaningful messages, but uh back then it just it seemed it seemed like it was just kind of generic to me. And I'll I'll say the one place that surprised me was the killer. The killer definitely, um don't get me wrong, feels generic. It matches the rest of the movie. But I kind of expected the killer to have like one kill tactic and just one type of kill, and that's where they're gonna do the entire time, and they changed it up a little bit, and and that pleasantly surprised me. But I think it's it's I think you're right, Chris. You could you could watch this and think like if they did one thing wrong, this would be like quite horrible. And if they did like five things really right, like this would go completely the opposite direction.

SPEAKER_03 15:05

It's funny because my surprise is about the entire movie because I have these expectations, and I'm telling you, when I said, Okay, I'm going in, I'm watching this, I have to because of the podcast, and we can't all watch everything that we love, but people do love it out there. But I just thought this was gonna be super generic. And I was so surprised because my boyfriend watched the trailer and he's like, Oh, this looks good. I was like, Oh, it's a typical movie, I'm sure just a whole bunch of girls in a sorority are being killed, which I've seen before. And he's like, No, no, no, it's actually not what you're expecting. And I was like, very interesting. So once I watched the movie, I was like, wow, I'm surprised I didn't give it more than I did originally. So I'm glad I, you know, stuck it out to the end watching the movie. TBH, it was a bunch of girls in a sorority getting killed there.

SPEAKER_02 15:56

I mean, this is definitely not my favorite sorority movie that we've covered in the last couple of months. Well, Black Christmas was in there.

SPEAKER_00 16:03

As far as surprises go, right off the bat, Rumor Willis, Audrina Patrick, and Carrie Fisher being listed in the opening credits. I was like, what? When? How did I miss this? So that was uh an initial surprise for me. I also I think like Alexis was kind of surprised by what this movie gave, because you kind of, and this is uh probably not intentional, and maybe I'm giving this movie too much credit, but you kind of go into this thinking you're gonna get a certain level of like basic superficiality, and it kind of dabbles in some depth and some smart writing and smart characters in a way that I wasn't anticipating. As far as disappointments go, some parts of the ending, some parts of the beginning, some parts of the middle. I think disappointments were pretty evenly sprinkled throughout this film.

SPEAKER_01 16:46

And I for me that also tracks with how it's not comp it's just not scary whatsoever. Like you yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:54

I think because I can't relate to this movie.

SPEAKER_01 16:57

Maybe maybe that's what it is. I also think it's just some some other issues. I think there's some definitely some dialogue disappointments, right? Some character issues as well. And I think you don't really have that strong bond uh to many of the characters, and so I kind of viewed it as like I'm just watching things happen to these people. Um but it's just I'm not like worried.

SPEAKER_03 17:19

Yeah, to me there was no mystery behind this killer to say that I don't know, you can dabble between the two where it's like you have too much information and then you don't have enough. Not that I need anything, but I just don't think that they dwelled on certain things to make this killer more menacing.

SPEAKER_02 17:39

Honestly, the only thing frightening about this is our constantly terrible decision making, both in filmmaking and just as young people uh making mistakes and not taking accountability for it.

SPEAKER_00 17:49

Okay, but you know I love a murder pact. Um as far as Fright Factor goes, though, two of the jump scares actually got me. Not in a big, like, not in like a James Wan kind of way, but I was like, ooh. And it happened twice. So there's some points there for that, at least for me.

SPEAKER_01 18:04

So, Chris, have you actually seen the original movie as well?

SPEAKER_02 18:07

I have, actually. I watched it in the in the period of time where uh listeners were tweeting random slashers at me. One of them tweeted the House on Sorority Row, and I don't know why, because it has a cult following. It's a great movie, but I watched it and it is very different from this. And I I think in some ways I can appreciate the direction that this takes. However, I think it also loses a little bit of the bond that we get in the original movie. It's very like um, don't tell mom the babysitter's dead. It has more of that energy than this one does. This is like, hey, let's let's live in the moment of the early 2000s where everything's really superficial and and really just petty and mean and mean-spirited, and we can be cruel to each other casually, or we can make a racist joke and just say, Oh, that's so racist, and think that absolves us of any responsibility for it. I do enjoy the original. Now, both of these movies are actually free on Tubi, so you could do a double feature. I think you'd uh I think you'd see some things you like.

SPEAKER_01 19:14

Full disclosure, I didn't realize there was an original until after watching the movie. Um but he but even then, like not knowing that there was something else this was based off of, this just felt like so reused. It it felt like so many different elements taken from other stuff that I kept swearing this is a plot I've seen. Like I've seen this exact plot somewhere, and like I have to just take away originality points for that.

SPEAKER_02 19:40

Just to be clear, even though I appreciate how it differentiates itself from the original, this feels like April Fool's Day down to the nature of the prank that gets pulled in the beginning. And the fact that someone's brother is involved in the prank and it's just a mess.

SPEAKER_03 19:54

Well, you know what? I'm gonna throw some originality points back into the pool because a tire iron I have not seen a killer use before, specifically as their weapon of choice. So I will give them that.

SPEAKER_02 20:08

Hey girl, look, it was a tire iron in the first scene of this movie, and it stopped being a tire iron in the second because that shit was a fucking Swiss army knife of tools.

SPEAKER_03 20:18

It really was. I like how it was manipulated to be multiple things, so just giving it originality where it needed to be credited to.

SPEAKER_00 20:28

I'm giving it some originality points too, Alexis. While this definitely seemed like it used all ingredients that I've seen before, it did them in a way that I had not seen combined specifically. I've never seen a sorority murder pact yet. Um I can't say that I was mad about that particular combination. Now there were also kills that I've never seen before, and originality points always go to kills I've never seen.

SPEAKER_02 20:53

This feels like you're watching Rugrats and then Rugrats All Growed Up, and this is the all-grown up version of Pretty Little Liars.

SPEAKER_00 21:01

Yeah, this felt like Pretty Little Liars meets I know what you did last summer.

SPEAKER_02 21:04

Yes. But I do think some of the points that you're all giving towards like the the climax of this movie are fairly worthwhile. I think one of the things that you talked about was, you know, being surprised by who the killer is. And I don't know that I was surprised by who the killer is, but I was surprised by the commitment to the performance of the killer and a lot of the logistics that they really mapped out for this whole situation. And I think the killer is actually the thing in this movie that I'm most happy about, surprisingly.

SPEAKER_01 21:33

Okay. I have some problems with getting there though, because the ending of the film, like some of the action we get is is pretty good. You know, it's it's interesting how they wrap things up. But to get there, you have to go through multiple fake outs for the identity of the killer. And then when you finally like meet them and figure out who they are, the motive that we're given seemed completely slapped together. It seems like they're like, all right, if we're gonna do this, we'll need a motive. Um, you know, quick, somebody pick one. I just, I feel like I'm okay with the end, but the like the last bit to make it there just kind of hurt to watch.

SPEAKER_00 22:08

I feel like that's fair, Mac. I was not surprised by the killer. I think because of some casting choices, I was like, oh, that person's here. That's gonna be something later on. Um, and then there were like little breadcrumbs throughout that I was like, yeah, probably. I had one theory as to like another person that might have been the killer, but I was really hoping that wasn't the case, and I was correct. Uh, thank God, because I think that exposition monologue would have been absolutely painful to watch. Um, but I feel like the ending of this movie was too long. There were like six endings, and it just kept going, and I was like, stop, somebody die, somebody get out of here. Oh my god, what are we still doing here? And I've never really felt like that dragged along by an ending before.

SPEAKER_03 22:45

Interesting, because I was so surprised about the ending. You guys know me, I don't think too hard into movies, so I just follow the plot line like they asked me to. And I was surprised when I needed to be and shocked when I needed to be too. But I did enjoy the ending because I didn't see it, and I like without going into too much detail, and then we'll talk about the ending in the second half, but I like how it was going one way, not necessarily with who you thought the killer was, but just intentions, and then it's kind of flipped. Um, so I thought it was going to be some sort of presentation, and it wasn't very hard to talk about this cryptically. I have an understanding as I'm talking about it now. But either way, it shocked me at the way they were going because I thought it was gonna be one way and it wasn't. Best way to describe it.

SPEAKER_02 23:36

Okay, so a mixed bag of results here on the uh feelings towards the ending, but let's see how those feelings impact our ultimate ratings. But before we score this movie, Alexis, how many people were slain on sorority row?

SPEAKER_03 23:50

We have a total of 11. 11 awesome kills, I have to say.

SPEAKER_00 23:54

That's not bad.

SPEAKER_03 23:55

And what about the animal report?

SPEAKER_02 23:56

It's all good in the hood. Well, let's go ahead and get into our ratings then. Sorority row from 2009, as chosen by our patrons. The Hackerslash.

SPEAKER_01 24:05

I gotta disappoint the patrons here. I was not super pleased with the film. It doesn't like offend you, it's not bad in that way, where you like watch this and think, I hate you for making me watch this. I just feel like it didn't rise above mediocrity. And that was a problem for me. I feel like a lot of the characters were just okay, and most of them I didn't enjoy watching on screen. The dialogue was painful in many cases, and the setup that we mentioned in the first five to ten minutes of the film was just completely a bad choice. And I I just I disagree with that even being added into the film because it didn't yield a result in the end that was really meaningful. Um, I mean, you can argue that depending on how you talk about the fates of the characters, but I just feel like it was thrown in in a way, because okay, we're in college and this is what we're gonna do. But looking back, it's 2022 now, and it just left a bad taste the entirety of the film. But I I also think we have Carrie Fisher in here, and there wasn't enough Carrie Fisher, and that's a complaint for me. There was some, and every moment of it was good, but there just wasn't enough. But that's not the major reason I'm gonna give this a hack. I just I think the film didn't live up to its potential. I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed.

SPEAKER_03 25:20

See, you had high standards. You're hack until proven slash. Now I'm slash until proven hack, so I am giving this a slash. It's dated, I agree, and I will support those opinions in the second half as well. The supporting characters were horrible to watch. But I did enjoy this movie. I thought it was an easy watch, it was entertaining, and I didn't leave this movie feeling like it was a waste of time. I actually appreciated watching it, and I liked the twists, I just enjoyed it. So there wasn't anything too specific to make it a slash, but it definitely wasn't in hack territory either. So it's getting a slash from me.

SPEAKER_00 26:00

So obviously, some of the patrons had mentioned my name when discussing this movie. I think because on paper this looks like a Paris movie. The girls are girling. Uh, there's very few men to speak of, and a lot of them really do get their get their due diligence in ways that are fun. I think while this movie did disappoint me on a regular basis throughout beginning, middle, and end, it also surprised me and it made me laugh and it made me smile. I think there's a lot of really underrated performances in this movie that I was really surprised by because there's something about those times in the 2000s where all the girls were straightening their hair and frying it to a crisp that really made me underestimate the actors in this. And I was like, wait, that was just a stylistic choice of the times. These performances are actually kind of solid from some of them. There's specifically one character that I'm like, this person should never be filmed talking, thinking, or being. Um, and I looked it up and now they're a DJ, so I think that's fine. Ultimately, this movie gives me Pretty Little Liars, I know what you did last summer, House Bunny energy, and that's a combination of things that I do love. It also had some really great lines. Specifically, one that I think encapsulates encapsulates this movie the best is we have a character saying, It's not that simple. Do you know what it's like to live with a secret like this? To which another character replies, Of course we do, we're theta pie. With no substance or context to back up a statement like that, it really kind of just stood on no legs whatsoever. And I think if you're willing to go along with something like that, you can have a good time with this movie. And that's what I did. So this is getting a slash.

SPEAKER_02 27:39

We're theta pie.

SPEAKER_00 27:41

Of course we do, we're theta pie. Like what?

SPEAKER_02 27:45

I think what's even better than that is the fact that one of the tenants of sisterhood is secrecy in addition to solidarity. You have these three regular nice things and secrecy. Solidarity. Solidarity, fantastic, we're here for it. But secrecy, why is that necessary?

SPEAKER_01 28:01

Murder. Could they not just say the tenants of our sisterhood are uh it's just ride or die. That's it. And a lot of them died.

SPEAKER_02 28:07

No, the tenants of our sisterhood are hoes before bros.

SPEAKER_00 28:11

Which we love to see.

SPEAKER_02 28:12

So this movie is a bit of a mixed bag. I think it it has quite a bit in it that's problematic. It has quite a bit in it that's fun. And I think where I fall is in a similar ballpark to like Mac and Alexis, where it's like kind of like right there on the cusp. For Mac, it was does it rise above mediocrity? And for Alexis, it's did it do enough to offend me enough that I had no fun watching this movie? When it comes down to it, I think this movie is saved by a few things. One, Carrie Fisher, got a lover, always. If I could get you know, and I'll never have this, but I could just imagine Carrie Fisher as Miss Mac from Black Christmas, perfect casting. That would be ideal. But also, for me, it's the dialogue and the way that the killer is written. Big fan of that. But the last thing is Leah Pipes as Jessica, which makes no fucking sense for me. It makes no sense for me. I shouldn't be saying this. But damn, if she just doesn't possess enough charm to make you hate and love her at the same time. This movie stumbles through its moments. It's not a tight 120, it's a real loose 120, and by a loose 120 I mean a loose 140. And I think there's quite a bit that needs to be cleaned up here, but it does just enough to keep me smiling. It's a competent movie. The cinematography is early 2000s in some places, and in other places it's stunning. So for that, it's getting a slash.

SPEAKER_03 29:45

Bravo. I thought I was gonna be on this island by myself. No, it's just me alone of a hack territory. Now it's your turn.

SPEAKER_02 29:51

To be clear though, I could have very easily fallen to Mac had we gotten anyone else's Jessica. Because had no one else given the character of Jessica as much range as Leah Pipes did, this would have been a shitty just mean girls movie. And again, Mean Girls not capitalized. M and G.

SPEAKER_01 30:12

Mean Girls the trope. And I'll add, Leah Pipes as Jessica absolutely seems like someone I've met before.

SPEAKER_02 30:18

How sad for you. And with that, sorority grow from 2009, the film chosen by our patrons to kick off 2022, has earned three slashes and one hack. Now you can find this movie again streaming for free on Tubi. Feel free to go ahead, check it out, and then join us in the second half so we can dig through the kills together. See you in a bit.

SPEAKER_01 30:43

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SPEAKER_03 31:45

You know, I said medium because it's pretty direct. You see it, but you're it's not lingering like you see in other movies, which I think would give it a high score, in my opinion. But this one, medium, I think there is gore. You see some crazy things, you see some crazy kills, which I'm excited to talk about. But yeah, medium, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_01 32:06

That feels pretty fair.

SPEAKER_03 32:08

So there's an 11 kills in this movie, and I think they're all really unique. Maybe one or two and not so unique or just kind of boring, but I kind of want to see what you guys think about the deaths and what your favorite ones are.

SPEAKER_02 32:22

Ooh, okay. I'm sorry, I gotta snag this right out the gate. Claire, flare gun and the foam? Absolutely. That's what that was.

SPEAKER_03 32:31

I didn't know what that was.

SPEAKER_02 32:32

Flare gun, yeah. It was so good. Just the theatrics and the dramatics of it just popping off, and then Cassie like going through the foam trying to get to her, and then to see the boiling and the melting of the skin and a little bit of the bone in the teeth, it was just yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:49

I also just loved like the general setting of being lost in a foam party. Just like obviously there wasn't that much foam, but like they filmed it in such a way where it was like she couldn't get her way out of the foam.

SPEAKER_02 32:58

What a labyrinth.

SPEAKER_00 33:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:00

So many boundaries.

SPEAKER_00 33:02

Have y'all ever been in like a full foam room where it's like full foam?

SPEAKER_02 33:05

No, that sounds stressful. Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:11

And disorienting.

SPEAKER_02 33:13

Okay, here we go. The fog. Remake the foam. There you go. Let's do it.

SPEAKER_01 33:21

So basically, it was an escape room before escape rooms. The foam room. Yeah, just a room full of foam.

SPEAKER_02 33:25

Leprosy pirates that come from the foam. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 33:30

Also, just like leprosy would transmit so quickly through the foam. Like the foam of it all is just very like unhygienic. Like everyone's got their mouth and diddled it's all up in the foam because we're all lost. In the foam.

SPEAKER_02 33:40

Sorority girls with leprosy in the foam. That's the remake.

SPEAKER_00 33:44

I'm here. I'm in it.

SPEAKER_03 33:46

Not for it at all.

SPEAKER_01 33:47

It's a slash. Well, since you you took the best kill, in my opinion, I'm going to go for a like kind of an on-the-nose kill, and that's the wine bottle jammed into her throat.

SPEAKER_00 34:00

Damn it, Mac.

SPEAKER_01 34:02

I know. So I just feel like, you know, when you're going to take people out in a way that relates to their character, it's it's a pretty good one for someone who's obviously an alcoholic. And um it's just, again, it's very on the nose, but it was not an expected kill. This killer decided to change things up here and there, and I really enjoyed that. And I also thought it was gonna be one of those where it's like, all right, I'm gonna hammer in the bottle from my hand, and they're gonna, you know, cut away, you're not really gonna see much, but like you get the full facial expression. Like, great, great view.

SPEAKER_00 34:31

I guess I will give my favorite kill to Jessica, even though in the moment I was mad and I thought she got robbed. But I think it was an appropriate death for her that made sense with her character because she was really a silver-tongued trickster who could really talk her way out of any situation. And she was really in the process of doing just that with the killer. She was like, Okay, I'm fine with this, I'm at peace with this, let's all just get out together, form an alliance, whatever, gets me out of here. Um, and I related to that approach, to that situation, and then to just get impaled in the mouth, and then to be told like she needs to shut her mouth, which like I didn't really care if I was like, I don't know if a woman maybe said this, or I don't know, a man telling a woman to shut her mouth and then stabbing her in the mouth didn't hit me in the best way, but I think Jessica as an overall character being killed while trying to talk her way out of something felt right.

SPEAKER_03 35:21

I agree with that, and I totally agree. So, Chris, was this movie when it came out, was it like My Bloody Valentine where there was a 3D version?

SPEAKER_02 35:32

No.

SPEAKER_03 35:33

Okay, interesting. So my one of my favorites, because Chuggs was taken, so I'm gonna have to do another one, was Dr. Rosenberg. I think because at this time I wasn't sure what was coming down the hall, and I really wasn't expecting the you know ninja star tire iron to be like coming at me like that. And I don't know, Paris, if that was the jump scare you were talking about, because it literally looked like it was coming at my face because I was watching it on my laptop.

SPEAKER_00 36:03

That isn't the jump scare, but I did also think the same thing, Lexus. I was like, was this movie in 3D? There were a couple moments where I was like, this is giving 3D.

SPEAKER_03 36:10

Yeah, it was definitely getting 3D vibes for sure. So Mac, you did touch on it, and Paris, you did too. I think it's really neat and cool that the way the sorority sisters died relates kind of to their own vices. So Chug is obviously a heavy drinker and gets the bottle of wine, alcohol shoved down her throat. Um Claire uses sex to cope with some of her guilt that she has and is killed in the sudge created by the hot tub after she pours the bubble bath into it. Um Jessica tends to talk her way out of difficult situations, convinces the girls to hide the murder of Megan, as you all know, and she gets silenced with the tire iron. I know it was very on the nose for all of these, so I I like the little nuances of those.

SPEAKER_02 36:55

So here's where I struggled and then was ultimately redeemed thanks to Zach, who nominated this movie, reaching out to us with this little bit of trivia. I think of women dying in horror with things involving the mouth, and I think of the way that Paris Hilton, I know I thought it was hilarious in this movie, but like exploited because of the sex tape with House of Wax. We all get it. We've been there, we lived in that moment in the early 2000s, then we're done, we're past it. But this movie is full of women dying with phallic objects in their mouth, and I fucking hate that so much. It it doesn't do anything good for me. I mean, I think what I love about Claire's death is like the theatric surrounding it and then the effects on her face with the flare gun. But some of the other ones just felt a little bit excessive and unnecessary. But an added layer to what you just shared, Alexis, that Zach shared with me. The director actually made all the kills related to the mouth specifically because they couldn't keep a secret and they had to tell other people. So it was uh yes, the silver tongue talking her way out of things, you know, Jessica Chuggs being a heavy drinker, and for Claire uh, you know, using sex to cope, but the added layer of there, specifically targeting the mouth because of the secrecy, I at least can get that. And it gave me very like pretty little liars.

SPEAKER_03 38:16

Everybody's shushing in front of the casket. I was just gonna think, what if there was a spinoff and that's how everyone died? Are we for that or are we not for that? We're not for that. I'm fine with that.

SPEAKER_01 38:26

I'm at peace with it. What would you call that killer? You know, the oral fixation killer.

SPEAKER_03 38:30

Is that the orator? There you go. There you go. So, Chris, you were talking about the special effects done on Claire, and I thought those are really neat because the first time I saw Dr. Rosenberg's death, there's that blood, and I get it was supposed to be like a reflection, but I was like, please don't let this all be so cheap during this movie. My favorite visual element is gonna be when Ellie is in the basement because sh there's just this darkness, especially since I was watching it on my laptop, it seemed a lot darker, and you see a lot of the shadows moving, and then you know the light turns on. It almost feels as if your eyes are adjusting just as hers is, and then that's when she sees Megan's coat. So I thought that was really neat. I just like the effects down in the basement in that scene.

SPEAKER_01 39:17

I actually forgot about that scene.

SPEAKER_03 39:19

So now I feel like I thought she was gonna be killed then, and I was like, oh, what a fake out. But then yeah, I like that.

SPEAKER_01 39:25

It was such a classic, like, horror movie basement scene, though. For sure, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 39:29

I think the lighting is a really strong point to bring up there. The lighting actually was a huge pitfall for me in the very beginning of this movie when we have the camera moving through the sorority house and we had the flashing lights and the rave that's going on somehow in this house. Hated that. But the lighting then came back around to be a strength for me. Specifically, the shot, the silhouetted shot against the the blue night sky of the girls leaving the scene of Megan's body being dumped down down a mineshaft. There was something so artistic about that and so beautiful that it almost felt a little disjointed with a lot of what we had seen up until that point. But it was really refreshing to have that moment of thinking, like, okay, this is evidence of like a competent filmmaker. How much will this carry on through the rest of the movie?

SPEAKER_01 40:16

It's tough for me because I like that kind of stuff didn't even hit me in this movie. I think I kind of glossed over those those moments of like, wow, that's actually really well done. And I just I couldn't remember it after watching it. I just thought, like, oh, it all had that kind of yellowish-greenish hue, and that bothered me. And maybe that's that's kind of shallow. But when I think of visuals, the thing that stuck with me was surprisingly, I think the killer's aesthetic worked for this movie. I know it's very like Scream-esque, um, but if it's a generic college slasher movie, you kind of want a generic college slasher like as the killer. Um, and the upgraded tire iron was honestly fun.

SPEAKER_03 40:55

Yeah, I did appreciate it because I thought it was just like a cape, but I didn't realize it was the whatever you get graduated, like the cap and gown sort of thing for the graduation. So I thought that was pretty cool.

SPEAKER_00 41:07

They kept implying that, but I really didn't see it at any point. I don't remember those things having any hoods, but everyone seemed to think that that was accurate, so I just went with it.

SPEAKER_03 41:16

Honestly, you know when they keep adding the tassels, there's probably a hood for something. You know, if you were in a secret cult in school and graduated from it. The fraternity from Black Christmas.

SPEAKER_02 41:26

Yeah. If you worshipped a bust with toxic masculinity ooze. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:31

Exactly. Wait, Paris, the honest answer as to why those exist? Because we're Theta Pie. Of course they do.

SPEAKER_00 41:37

We're Theta Pie.

SPEAKER_02 41:39

It's for the solidarity of it all. And the secrecy.

SPEAKER_00 41:42

So for me, my favorite visual elements actually came pretty early in the film. The first during a scene where my mouth was really just on the floor. Uh, it's when Audrina Patridge is ODing, or I guess fake ODing. And then Jessica intimately provides mouth to mouth to her like little vomit mouth. I was like so shocked at how like casually she just like pressed her lips against Audrina's, and I was like, What is this? But it's also hot. It was surprisingly hot to me. I was like, even though the vomit was there.

SPEAKER_02 42:13

Like Chugs said.

SPEAKER_00 42:14

Yeah, and then immediately after Chugs was like, okay, hot. And I was like, Yeah, okay, good. I'm glad I'm not the only one that saw that.

SPEAKER_03 42:19

But did Chris think that was hot? Because I know how she is with the vomit.

SPEAKER_02 42:23

Oh yeah, you couldn't pay me to make out with someone when they're vomiting, even though she knew it was fake vomit. The the look of it was just real wet and slimy.

SPEAKER_00 42:31

Yeah, I totally agree. It kind of reminded me of like Alka Seltzer.

SPEAKER_02 42:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:35

That's probably what they used. But the other visual element that I thought stood out a lot in this movie, and I think it's probably one of the things I'll remember the most, is the way that they used that like shitty Nokia phone to film Audrina's like fake death so they could have it. Um, and just like that POV where you could kind of see her like fucking around, like giving the one the one girl the finger, but then you also see it like up close and personal when she gets stabbed for real with the tire iron right in the lungs. I was like, what a great little visual device to kind of add an extra POV to this scene.

SPEAKER_02 43:05

Let's be clear though, that footage was way clearer than any Nokia phone from 2009.

SPEAKER_00 43:10

Mm-hmm. And that phone is apparently waterproof or mineshaft proof.

SPEAKER_01 43:14

I don't know. If it were a real phone from back then, with a real camera they had back then, you know that they would see this video sent to them and they're like, oh, we're not in trouble whatsoever. There's four pixels, you can't see anything, you can't make it out.

SPEAKER_03 43:26

All this studio level audio as well. Those phones always had the best grainy photos, but like because it was its own built-in filter, pretty much.

SPEAKER_00 43:36

Yeah, just overexpose it and you have flawless skin.

SPEAKER_03 43:39

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 43:40

You couldn't see it really. It's just shitty quality. That's the filter, just shitty quality. Yeah, hide the realities of my actual skin. That visual, that moment, that presence that that phone has with Megan kind of like fucking around uh was recording herself shortly before she's killed, that entire moment. Is actually my favorite scene in the movie. It's this really suspenseful dread, right? It's Garrett freaking out, not knowing what's going on. It's the girls joking around so casually. And it's like these are the last moments before their lives change forever. This is these are the last moments of Megan's life. Terrible decision making all the way here up until now, right? But to see the way it goes from zero to a hundred, to see like Garrett just really committing to this whole mess, honestly, that was a really pro powerful moment of let's see what your true colors really are. Some of it's a little bit hokey, right? With Jessica talking her way into and out of things. But that entire moment of just everybody spread out, and we see Garrett in the background, just like grabbing things and slowly approaching Megan's body, it filled me with a little bit of anxiety.

SPEAKER_01 44:58

It was a solid buildup right there. Reminded me of I've mentioned this movie before. It's called Bully, and it's set in Florida and it's based on real events, but it had this like real tension where you could like imagine everything going wrong all in a second in the right way, and you just know the train's gonna wreck. And like that was that was a great moment where because you you know the right ways out of this all along the way. You can think, just do this, just do that, like fix this, it's really easy. And then as soon as he picks up that tire iron in the background, you're like, oh god, he's gonna he's gonna do it. It's good. I don't know what he's gonna do with it. I don't know if he's gonna stab her on the head or what, but and then he just plunge it in. There was just so much blood all of a sudden, too. It was such a great, just a great way to start things off. But I think if I had to pick a favorite scene, I I don't even remember this the dickhole, what is his name, Mickey or something? Like the ex-boyfriend, you know, later in the film. Oh yeah, he's gum. Right? So they break up and then he tries to proposition Rim Ruellis, and she's like, if you touch me again, I'll kill you. But real quietly into his ear, and that moment where she showed some strength there, I just I don't know, I really loved that.

SPEAKER_03 46:07

So that ties into my favorite scene. It's the end, and I can't wait to talk about the end because I know not everyone enjoy the ending, but I thought Kyle was the killer, especially when they were so on the nose about it earlier on. So when there's that scene, he's talking and he's going all crazy. I I wasn't, I mean, I was paying attention, but I didn't know what his intentions were. So to me, it was clear that he was still the killer. But then I was like, okay, I know his family was all about, you know, looks and all that sort of stuff. So I'm like, oh, maybe he just doesn't want to be a part of this in general. He's not, he doesn't know about everything, her has been a part of it, just this certain circumstance. So then Andy comes in and is saving Cassidy, and I was like, please don't let this be a movie where a guy saves a girl and this is the ending because I will stop this movie right there. And then it ends up being Andy, shocker for me, but then I like how there's this, you know, very similar to Black Christmas's girl power getting out of the house, you know, taking that control back, which I appreciated because they almost had me where it was gonna end right there. I said, forget this movie. If a guy's saving the day, I'm not about this. And it wasn't. So that was my favorite. I know we said it was pretty long ending, but that was my favorite scene.

SPEAKER_00 47:31

Alexis, I did enjoy some of those elements of the ending. I was kind of hard on the ending beforehand, partially because the actor that played the killer is also from Pretty Little Liars and has been in quite a few things since then. So I was like, I'm sure he plays a much larger role than we are led to believe. So I wasn't too surprised when that happened. But I have two favorite scenes that I want to go into. The first, The Murder Pact. That was when the movie really impressed me initially, because I was kind of just expecting this to be a bunch of like Z listers, nobodies giving nobody performances. But most of the girls were really delivering in that scene. I was buying everything that was happening, and I was like, wow, the girls are acting, and I'm obsessed with this. This is a really high-quality, like realistic conversation that would happen during a murder pact, I would imagine. Obviously, I'd be Team Jessica in this situation because she's really looking out for all of us, and if that includes herself, that's okay. And I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with that. But she made some solid points, as dark-sided as they were. Like, we don't want to let this one mistake ruin at least six different families, you know, if it doesn't have to. But we've we've talked about my take on murder pacts in the past. Um, it's problematic, I'm sure. But another scene that really stood out for me, and I actually hated it at the time I wrote miserable in my notes, but it's the scene where Jessica's talking to her boyfriend's dad, and he's like that asshole senator, and he's like really being such a dick about like, I need you to be a certain type of girl because I'm potentially gonna be a vice president one day, and I need there to be no variables or surprises, like really just trying to like I don't know, like clip her wings or something. It felt so gross and toxic and seedy to me, but also so realistic because like white male politicians, blah blah blah. Um, but the reason I like that scene so much is because I think without that, you don't really get a full picture of Jessica as a character. And obviously Jessica was one of my favorite characters, and I think one of the strongest characters in the movie. We've we've all kind of touched on that. Um, but you see how she uses her power in the sorority setting, where it's very much like the matriarchy, and she can kind of run things the way that she wants to run them, and it's all girls and the boys are really only there as like set decoration or just for fun, and then how she grapples with the reality outside of that small bubble, which is just toxic masculinity, patriarchy, left and right, and she's using all the skills that she's cultivated within her world to kind of survive and navigate that world. I found that to be a really compelling moment for Jessica, and just the way she kind of emoted during that scene while she was being talked to like a complete piece of shit by that absolute garbage senator. Um, I thought that was really good.

SPEAKER_02 50:11

I would agree with that. I think Jessica's arc in this film, I mean, she doesn't really have much of an arc. Literally, the only thing she does is not abandon Cassidy when she gives back up, right? But looking at that moment and what it provides, it gives us the opportunity to join a tenet of sisterhood with solidarity. It's one of those opportunities where we see him being completely shitty to her and we get the idea and we get the better understanding of what she walks through in life and how she's been hardened by the world. And it doesn't justify or excuse her actions in any way. It just gives you context, and that context is an example of how great the attention to some of these characters in this movie is. One of the other things I love is, you know, we get the the showing of the true colors, right? Looking specifically at Claire and how Claire immediately gives in in the beginning to we'll protect you, Cassidy. And it's just this, you know, Jessica says, you know, that she never had a spine, but it's the way that you can see conviction in her eyes, but also like this really incredible performance of just like not totally convincing herself of that. Like she is saying, I want to be protected. Some of the some again, some of the work that the women did in this movie in terms of just the performances gave more value to these lines than I think ever was ever really there to begin with.

SPEAKER_00 51:43

Can we talk about one of the shittiest, most poorly written characters, I think?

SPEAKER_03 51:46

Please. Yes, let's do that because I feel like I didn't think as in-depth as the two of you did on the characters. I just was kind of like too sorority for me. And then the two random ass characters that were thrown in.

SPEAKER_00 51:59

Who are the two, Alexis?

SPEAKER_03 52:01

Oh, your girl from the hills.

SPEAKER_00 52:03

Oh, Audrina, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 52:05

Yes. And Carrie Fisher. What? I don't know. I just thought it was really random. Like, you have like very sea-less people that you've never heard of, then you have some like, you know, notable people, and I I get maybe you just average out your cast when you have great people and not so great people. I don't know. It just seemed odd. I loved Carrie Fisher.

SPEAKER_02 52:30

I loved her finding a moment of quiet and taking some solace in the beginning of this movie with a party going on and her pouring a drink and refusing to let any motherfucker come into that kitchen. Love that. But also, B, the way she hits Jessica and acknowledges that she's had it coming, and she totally just like is the mama bear. She's taking charge of the house, she has her fucking shotgun, she's gonna fucking throw down for these girls as much as she hates them. But then to be struck by that table, to be pushed into that tire iron, and the way she still tries to fight to her last breath to stay the fuck away from her girls, again, the solidarity, beautiful chef's kiss. Like Carrie Fisher did so much writing and consultation on writing, and I hoped in my heart that she consulted on this script. I haven't been able to find anything that says she did, but I thought she was the perfect, perfect woman to play the house mother here.

SPEAKER_03 53:28

I guess I didn't have an issue with her at all. Like, adore her, but I just to me it just felt like odd casting. Like just in general, I just didn't know. I guess because to me she's prominent in Star Wars, and I haven't really seen her in a lot of other movies, so that was just really random to be like, hey, what?

SPEAKER_01 53:49

You've seen her in other horror movies, at least one.

SPEAKER_03 53:52

Did you forget Scream 3? Yeah, I did forget Scream Three.

SPEAKER_00 53:54

Wait, oh yeah. I also forgot Alexis.

SPEAKER_03 53:58

Exactly. Random, but also cool.

SPEAKER_00 54:01

So yeah, I feel like anything Carrie Fisher in feels random because like Carrie Fisher, you're so iconic. What are you doing here? Surely you have something better going on.

SPEAKER_03 54:09

Exactly. What are you doing in sorority row?

SPEAKER_00 54:11

I gotta say though, the character I hated the most was Maggie, Audrina's sister. What a flat, not the hair, the performance, the personality, the character, the acting. It was so stale, so flat. It was like a wet noodle. And then, like at one point, like she delivered some really poorly written lines and she delivered them poorly. And they're like, oh, she really stuck it to Jessica. And I was like, no, she she really didn't. She gave nothing and then walked away. And I just wanted her to die the whole time. Also, for story purposes, it's best that she would have died because what happens now? I know that you killed my sister and then hit it, and but you saved me from a fire, so we're cool. What happens next? I think Maggie should have died.

SPEAKER_02 54:50

That is hilarious. Okay, yeah. And let's look at the sequel baiting at the end there where we have Gardener Garrett with his slit wrist holding a trout uh a trowel, staring at Maggie. I mean, she got it coming.

SPEAKER_01 55:01

Okay, I didn't realize that was Garrett at all. I thought that was a burned Andy. I did not put two and two together.

SPEAKER_02 55:07

I must have been Oh, I didn't either because I counted him in the deaths. Andy was the killer, the boyfriend, but at the end we see the gardener's hand.

SPEAKER_00 55:16

And then they like lingered on that hand scar, and I was like, does that hand scar mean something to me? And that was Garrett.

SPEAKER_02 55:21

It's a wrist scar. And Garrett slit his wrist earlier in the film.

SPEAKER_01 55:25

There we go. Interesting. But why would he come after Maggie?

SPEAKER_02 55:29

Because trauma, he hates women now. He already hated women to begin with. Now he extra hates them.

SPEAKER_01 55:35

He hates women now. So Maggie seemed like really random, but I think there's several characters in here, or at least uses of the characters where it they just tried to trick you in terms of who you would think is the killer the whole time. And Maggie was like such an obvious one that you're like, if she's actually the killer, I'm gonna hate you so much because that's too easy. And thank God they didn't do that. Because that was like, oh my god, it's her sister, and she knows who all of us are, and she like remembers us, and this is creepy, whatever. Let's just brush this off and move on. And it's like, oh man, they're gonna make her the killer, and I'm gonna hate it, and it's gonna be like, You killed my sister, prepare to die. Thank goodness they didn't, but that little like blurb with her at the end, like hooking up with the boyfriend and everything, and then like and then like talking crap. What what was that? Why was that? Okay.

SPEAKER_02 56:20

Can we talk about the logistics of the agenda that she had put together before sneaking into this party, knowing that she really just had all this in mind, she's really gonna like deliver some zingers to Jessica along the way. I'm gonna show up and just ruin these women's nights.

SPEAKER_00 56:37

Yeah. And have sex with a gross dude who's not hot.

SPEAKER_02 56:40

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 56:41

Out of spite, I guess. Or desper uh desperation. And also then the cat fight. The cat fight, nobody won in that situation. It made all of the characters look worse. It didn't feel accurate or realistic. It felt gratuitous and dumb.

SPEAKER_02 56:52

Mm-hmm. Let's just let's distract from this moment. The real seriousness of what we have going on here to fight over a man.

SPEAKER_00 56:59

Mm-hmm. No. No, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 57:01

That's where honestly the mo the movie almost hit hack territory for me.

SPEAKER_01 57:05

I okay, so one place that wasn't a hack, but I was disappointed, was obviously Cassidy and and Ellie knew what was wrong and what was right. And I was kind of hoping they were gonna like try to go to the cops and get killed along the way to really show how far these girls were willing to go for their solidarity. I was I was truly hoping they're gonna be like, no, this is obviously wrong, we'll go to the cops, and they were just gonna be like, Garrett, take them out.

SPEAKER_02 57:33

It wouldn't be one thing. But I think the other side of that is then you lose the reality that it's not the girls who are doing this to each other. It's the shitty men in their lives who are doing this. It's the external pressures of things, it's the people who want to be the fixers and the builders and the solvers.

SPEAKER_01 57:52

Wasn't there a point that was mentioned that Jessica had hooked up with Garrett?

SPEAKER_02 57:58

With Megan's boyfriend.

SPEAKER_01 57:59

Okay, because I I thought that was like what a weird turn of events if she was the one he cheated on her with.

SPEAKER_02 58:05

Oh and maybe she was, because they do specify that Megan and Garrett were dating.

SPEAKER_01 58:11

Right.

SPEAKER_02 58:12

But I think I also just walked away with that with the understanding that Megan has dated other men. Right. Not necessarily Garrett, but that would be an interesting layer there if that is the case.

SPEAKER_01 58:22

Okay, can we say, can we all like agree that Mickey was a trash character though?

SPEAKER_02 58:26

100%.

SPEAKER_01 58:27

Yeah. And Kyle was headed there as well. Not as bad, but pretty much.

SPEAKER_02 58:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:32

Was there a redeemable man in this film?

SPEAKER_02 58:34

No, there isn't, which I like. I like the fact that there's no redeemable man in this film.

SPEAKER_00 58:38

Almost no redeemable women either.

SPEAKER_02 58:40

Think about Jessica's boyfriend. That he's so caught up in his own appearances, right? He just gets worse by the moment and he reveals himself to be a toxic abuser. And that's just the mind-blowing fucking thing about it. And look at the appearance that he puts on for his dad. Look at the how how prim and proper he is in front of his dad when he was like wasted a few moments before in another scene. And sure, people have fun and then they clean up in front of their parents, whatever. That's not the issue, but the real issue is how he has his father convinced that he wants to spend the rest of his life with Jessica. But he's gonna sleep with Maggie, and he's absolutely going to do anything physically required to silence Jessica and her friends. What the fuck is that?

SPEAKER_01 59:28

He's gonna be a perfect politician.

SPEAKER_02 59:30

Yikes.

SPEAKER_01 59:31

Basically, all the men in this movie are trash, except for like, I don't know, the one guy, I think, I think wasn't he asking Andy at the party, like, are you the guy that sells weed on the quad?

SPEAKER_02 59:40

He's probably the only good guy, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:42

But he may not even be a good guy, but he m he provided a an enjoyable moment of comic relief. And that that gave him some value there. That extra? Well, he spoke, so he's an actor. True.

SPEAKER_00 59:51

Right. He got his sag off of this movie. Yes. Worth it. So for those of us who slashed it, can we agree the worst part of this movie is the opening scene and just the idea that sisters would support the roofing of another one of their sisters.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:10

Is it morally the worst part of this movie? Absolutely. I would totally agree with that. I would say to me, the other worst part is just these party scenes, but I've learned I'm just not I'm I'm just that's not in my realm of whatever would have been a part of my childhood, adulthood, just like skiing. I'm learning. I was like, my parents never taught me this stuff. And I was like, One, I said it was white people shit, but it's just rich people shit. And that's what these parties are.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:38

I do agree that that that is the worst part of the movie, Paris. And I think you mentioned something earlier about being confused about whether a man wrote this or a woman wrote this or who was consulted. But the reality is that that moment and that critical point reveals that a woman wasn't involved in writing this film.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:57

That's what I thought. And even like I because I was considering, I was like, I mean, it was the 2000s, we were all pretty like hateful and fucked up, but I can't possibly wrap my head around the fact that any group of girls would have had this conversation.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:12

Any group being the key thing. It's not like it's one person. It's like it's one person driving it, and then you have some others who are like, oh, okay, I'll just go along with it, or I'm uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:24

Yeah, it was a collective acceptance.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:26

Yeah, it's the the comfort of joking about it. It is the the need to downplay it about like roofy sex being quality, like you get late and a good night's sleep.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:36

Yeah, roofy sex ain't that bad. I said, what?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:42

I'm glad that I get to choose a best part of the movie because it's much easier for me. I think the best part of this movie is the casting. Obviously, Carrie Fisher, we've already mentioned, best casting decision ever. Anytime you can have Carrie Fisher in a movie, you should have Carrie Fisher in a movie. And and it's really sad that we can't do that anymore. It's it's truly sad. But I mean, if we look through the rest of the cast, I'm not really familiar with like any of them, and it sounds like I need to watch a few things that you guys have mentioned already, but I feel like Cassidy really nailed it. I don't know if it was the vibe or just the voice. The voice, very sexy. I don't know what it is, but like something about the tone shows that she's like more serious than everyone else. If it's an octave thing, maybe I'm not sure. But there's, you know, it's a it's a it's a good match. But I don't know, it's just like I feel like the casting really nailed it. I worried, right? I worried that we were gonna get a bunch of 35-year-olds or 30-year-olds being like, I'm 21, look at me, like the movie Scary Movie uh points out. But um, I feel like we didn't get that. You know, we obviously they're usually older than the characters they're playing, but you didn't like feel it. You felt like these are some some preppy ass high, you know, college seniors getting ready to graduate and who are like so full of themselves or whatever, and it kind of and it kind of matched up with that. And all of the guys really matched up with looking and acting like douchebags. So great job casting, obviously.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:00

You can go see Cassidy and step up all in.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:04

Oh, step up to the streets.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:06

I know we we talked a bit about the truly most morally reprehensible thing in this movie. Uh, it was also the implication that hey, you want to trap your brother into drugging a woman because that's okay, sure. And then claim you know him. Whatever, okay. But on a less serious note, one of the other worst parts of this movie is the perception of the passage of time and the response to Megan's disappearance. It's only eight months. They're acting like this happened uh at a sorority party in freshman year, and all of a sudden it's four years later and Megan's dead, and it's so tragic that she's not here with us. Obviously, it's concerning that she's not here, right? She's still missing, presumed missing this entire time. But it was just this it felt like the the emotional responses didn't line up with just eight months.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:55

Yeah, I was very confused about the time jump, partially because that's where Tooby hit me with a commercial, and I think I was on my phone when they just came back, so I did not see how long the time jump was. So I was like, I'll just go along and not question it.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:07

But yeah, and it's also the treatment of Maggie. Like, sure, she we know that she had met them in the past, she met them years prior. But when you introduce a character who's the sister of the girl who's now dead, it's kind of implied that she's suddenly grown up and now, wow, what a dead ringer for Megan. It's only been eight months. I'm sure at some point Megan had a picture of her fucking sister around.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:33

I'll just throw another lighthearted worst part. When they were trying to answer the question, is the person blackmailing us or like threatening us, is it Megan or Megan's ghost? And they determined that the only way to find out was by lowering themselves into the empty mine shaft where they left the body to look for themselves. I just thought there were 18 different ways we could have answered that question that didn't involve that.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:55

Oh, I'm sorry. Speaking of lowering into the mine shaft, the other worst part is using a fucking mirror to reflect light and expect that to actually I mean it was a little bit of camp too, but expecting this shard of glass to actually reflect enough light to light the mine shaft for visibility, but then Cassie just falls down anyway and just pulls out the flashlight on her phone.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:18

What the fuck the brightest phone display that ever existed in that time period.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:22

Okay, but props to that because in every episode of Pretty Little Liars, when the girls like have huge industrial flashlights with them. I'm like, ladies, we all have phones in our flashlights.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:32

That is very true. But it does drain your battery.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:35

True, but they don't have a signal anyway.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:36

So I will say though that the level of camp in that little glass shard and a number of other smaller moments in this movie don't necessarily grant it the greatest rewatchability for me. But I I think if I were to watch it again, I'd try to listen out more for the funny moments of the like the exchange between Jessica and Claire, where Claire pondered if everyone. Everyone was dead, and Jessica's like, Yeah, and all and all their corpses got up and drove their cars home, idiot. Those exchanges, I think the comedic beats in this movie are worth watching again. If I could see just a supercut of those. The whole movie though, I might have to wait quite a while to see.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:17

Yeah, this definitely isn't I'll never watch again, but it's definitely a movie I'll bring probably up to my sister. I'm trying to think of who would actually enjoy this, and it definitely would be my sister, but it's gonna need to be a year or two. I already know the outcome. I know the surprises, so I would like to be surprised again.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:34

This feels like a random like background watch to me. I'm totally glad that the patrons recommended it, and I'm definitely glad that I watched it. I don't know that I need to go out of my way. It was it did feel long. It felt long. The ending kept ending. Um, but there are those small moments, Chris, that I think make it worth revisiting in some capacity. I also loved at one point somebody said she couldn't be more dead.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:53

Oh my gosh, but what about the moment where they find her corpse and Jessica just pipes up?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:57

Oh my god, she said, Oh, she looks terrible. That was great.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:01

It's really honestly, Leah Pipes carried this fucking movie. She did. She shouldn't have. She had no business doing that.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:08

I think for me, one dose of sorority real was enough. I think uh if I want more mediocrity, there's plenty of other places to look.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:16

Well, while this movie doesn't seem to have the greatest level of rewatchability for us, so at least we know that our patrons love it. And, you know, certainly for good reason, I think this movie delivered in a lot of ways that we weren't expecting. But let's see what Mac has cooking up for us in fact or fiction.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:31

Can you smell what the Mac is cooking? Okay, so the school in the film borrowed its name from the director's high school, which is in North Carolina. I don't even remember the school having a name. I'll just say fact.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:43

Say fiction.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:44

This one is a fiction. So Rosman University, it's named after the, you know, original film's writer, director, producer, Mark Rosman. Number two, while it was not based off of North Carolinian high school, the film was shot in a western North Carolina college town.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:59

Fact. There were some mountain ranges being shot. No, Canada. Up North Maine. I'm giving it's giving New Hampshire. I'm gonna say fiction.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:07

Okay, well, it is fiction, but it was shot in Pennsylvania, so definitely not Canada.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:10

Okay, but that's northern, and I'm from Pennsylvania. It was giving Pennsylvania.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:14

It was giving all of those places. Well, number three. The film was originally planned to be released with a PG 13 rating after the success of the 2008 PG 13 film Prom Knight.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:24

Gonna say fact.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:26

I'm gonna say boo, I hate that, I don't want that to be true. Fiction. Okay, it's a fiction, but so the studio was planning on R, then almost decided to go to PG-13, thanks to Prom Knight, but then they made the right choice and stuck with R. Thank God. And number four, in the UK, the British Board of Film Classification decided this movie was only okay for people, you know, 18 and up. But the film's UK distributor talked them into changing their minds to make it 15 years old and up.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:55

Uh, fiction?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:56

Yeah, fiction. There's a lot of shenanigans here. That is true. So many shenanigans, but this is actually a fact.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:02

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:02

I think we should change our classifications. Why is it 13 and then suddenly 18? You know, maybe it should be like 12, 16, 18. Just have a bunch of them in there.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:12

I think anybody should be able to see anything and just like watch your fucking kids. Well, that's been fact or fiction.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:18

Well, there you have it, folks. Sorority Rowe has squeaked by with three slashes and one hack. Sorry to disappoint you, patrons. Now, while we certainly had a robust discussion here, it doesn't end here by any means. We want to know what you think. Keep in mind there are a number of ways you can reach out to us, starting with our website, hackerslash.live, and on our social media accounts on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:39

Or if you dropped your friend down a mining well of some store, you can also reach out to our hackerslash hotline. You can leave us a voicemail at 757-606-0128, or visit hacker slash. But if you're secretly hiding behind a graduation hood, if that's even a thing, you can just send us an email to feedback at hackerslash.com.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:58

If you've enjoyed listening to this episode, consider becoming one of our patrons like our newest friend Jazz. You can visit patreon.com slash hacker slash to earn cool perks for as low as $1 a month.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:08

We'll see you next time, folks, and remember reputation comes from the company you keep. Bye.