199: It Follows (2014)

SPEAKER_04 0:04

I'm sorry you have a sex demon, but you're worthy of love! Greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hacker Slash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. You ever played the trade game? If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack, a total joke, a waste of time, or a slash.

SPEAKER_01 0:28

Totally killer. Unintended.

SPEAKER_04 0:30

We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, we're rating these movies with the perspective we've gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast. This week I'm joined by the Superfly Space Guy Mac. Hola, Muchachos, the girl lover Alexis, hey everyone, the cowardly creeper Ryan. Hiya, and the Scream Queen Paris.

SPEAKER_06 0:51

Hey sweets.

SPEAKER_04 0:52

The people have spoken this week, and our patrons have decided we're revisiting a film we originally covered when our show first started. Before we get down to business, so we have some follow-up.

SPEAKER_06 1:01

Let's follow up on a movie. We recently reviewed a movie called Scream 4 in preparation for the ultimate scream that came out just a couple weeks ago. And we wanted to hear what our listeners thought. Obviously, we had our own takes. Go back and listen to the episode if you haven't already. But the results are in, and only 11% gave this movie a hack, which makes me feel happy.

SPEAKER_05 1:22

You know, I've spent a lot of time contemplating my own hack on this movie. Did I go wrong? And results like this make me feel like I did.

SPEAKER_06 1:31

We have a couple comments from our listeners. Marshall said, I recently did a Scream Marathon in October, and it really reminded me how good a watch Scream 4 is, bested only by the original. The return to Woodsboro felt nostalgic without any sequel aftertaste. I'm with Freya on calling out the protagonist almost from the word go. I did watch Scream 4 after American Horror Story and Scream Queens, so naturally Emma Roberts just screamed killer. That was a pun. Can't wait to have another marathon before 5 comes out. Easy slash for me.

SPEAKER_03 1:57

I know Paris and Chris had a Screamathon, and this just makes me so excited to have my own, maybe one day. After I do my saw marathon completely through around Easter.

SPEAKER_06 2:07

We have another comment from Daniel who said, I remember seeing this in theaters when I was 11. An experience I'll never forget. It's a super slash. Also, I think this is where Emma Roberts started getting her Queen of Shade acting roles. Oh, I forgot to tell you all this. When I was 14 and in theater class, we got to pick monologues from movies to perform. I picked the one Jill gives when explaining her reasoning for offing everybody. It was probably cringe and awful, but at least it was fun.

SPEAKER_05 2:30

Picking a monologue sounds absolutely horrible. It sounds so scary. I can't imagine. But Paris, you know, I I ain't the actor, you know. I'm too real. I can't pretend to be anything. I can't do anything or take anything seriously.

SPEAKER_06 2:43

That's why you pick a monologue that just suits you, Ryan, because it has to be something that you would already say. And then you just say it like Ryan. And that's acting.

SPEAKER_05 2:49

People don't act like me in movies because people in movies have to be normal people.

SPEAKER_06 2:53

And we have another comment from Darren who said Scream 4 is a total slash for me. It's my second favorite after the first scream. I didn't know there's a possibility that Kirby survived, which hasn't got me really excited that she could return. This probably won't happen, but it's good to wish for nice things. Brilliant episode.

SPEAKER_04 3:08

I like that you wish, and I'm not at all going to indicate whether or not that came true in Scream 2022.

SPEAKER_06 3:13

Never say never. I love that there's a trend of people agreeing that this movie is one of the best, only seconded by the first. Because that's how I feel personally, and it makes me feel validated.

SPEAKER_04 3:24

It makes me feel terrible. It shouldn't make you feel terrible. Actually, one of our patrons agrees with Paris, with number two being dead last in the ranking.

SPEAKER_06 3:33

And I actually stand by that after our scream a thon of getting 30 minutes into Scream 2. Next up, I'd like to give a shout-out to one of our newest patrons, Nathan. Nathan, thank you so much for your support. I'm glad you've enjoyed listening to the podcast enough to join our Patreon family. And just because you joined, not really, but in general, we just launched one of our newest patron perks. It is our own Discord channel for Hackerslash. We're actually in it right now as of this recording. It is currently live. So, patrons, if you haven't already joined, which over half of you have, check it out. It's a really great place where we can chat about horror, talk about episodes, and really just connect in ways that we haven't been able to.

SPEAKER_05 4:11

It's also really cool because it's a lot easier for all of us to interact with each other and with listeners, whereas on Patreon it's a little bit, you know, more formal, but there we can just talk trash.

SPEAKER_04 4:20

That's true. And this will be opening up to all of our listeners in the future, but right now, for the next like 30 days or so, it's strictly for patrons to beta test and really figure out what's working, what do we need to fix, what do we need to improve before we open it up to the masses.

SPEAKER_06 4:35

Either way, I'm so excited for what's already to come in 2022. And that is our follow-up.

SPEAKER_04 4:41

Well, speaking of those patrons, this week we're looking back on a supernatural psychological horror film that we originally covered in episode 14 because our patrons said so. This film originally premiered at a film festival in 2014 and has gone on to receive critical acclaim, be lauded as one of the best horror films of its time, and earned a reputation as a love letter to John Carpenter's work. The story is based on recurring dreams that plagued writer-director David Robert Mitchell in his youth, and centers on a young woman who's followed by a supernatural entity after a sexual encounter. This week we're talking about It Follows.

SPEAKER_01 5:16

Now It Follows was nominated by Jake, and Jake has this to say. Nothing emulates a tone of horror quite like this. It Follows is saturated with dread, suspense, and allegory that capitalizes on specific fears of the human condition and ultimately creates the most original, anomalistic horror entity I have ever witnessed in the movie. It's a must-watch for anyone who likes their horror slow burn, heady, and unorthodox. If you haven't seen it, please do. It's a great conversation piece, even if it's not your cup of tea. Thank you so much for letting me support you guys. It's refreshing to discover a podcast that not only critiques my favorite movie genre, but has a very diverse crew who all have a distinct, humorous, and slashing perspective, pun intended. Happy 2022 to everyone at Hackerslash.

SPEAKER_04 6:11

Aww, Jake, thank you so much for the nomination. I'm so excited that this actually won out. Obviously, the overwhelming majority who voted for it follows, but there was some discourse over on Patreon, so I'm excited to see how this plays out when the episode posts. But for now, the last time we covered it follows, none of you were on the show, which begs the question who's seen this one before?

SPEAKER_01 6:33

Okay, so I think I had texted this, but apparently I bought this movie on Amazon Prime back in like 2017, but totally forgot that I did. Uh so I never got a chance to watch it until now. And I've been waiting to, I I've wanted to, and I was really happy to see it landed on our watch list this month.

SPEAKER_03 6:48

I'm not sure if I've watched it in 2017, but I have seen this. Definitely not in theaters, but close to when it was released to streaming. Remember it a little bit, but not much.

SPEAKER_05 6:59

So I fully thought I had seen this. I thought I knew what it follows was, and I've realized that I feel like it's been talked about, not referenced a lot, but it's been brought up. So I went into this, like, oh, I know what we're watching. Um, did not at all know that we were starting with a sexual encounter that went wrong. I was very caught off guard. So clearly I haven't seen it.

SPEAKER_06 7:18

I have seen this movie a couple times already. I stumbled upon it on Netflix one time when I was just like alone and looking for something to watch, and I was like, oh, I'll watch this. And I remember being really impacted by it the first time I saw it, and I was like, oh wow, this is very notable. We can say that. This time around, though, I was sort of expecting to possibly be bored because I remembered it being a very quiet, ambient ride. And I was like, you know, if I know what's gonna happen, is it gonna keep me engaged or am I gonna doze off?

SPEAKER_04 7:45

I think those are all great questions to ask yourself, and I found myself asking myself a similar thing, especially since I've seen this a couple times now. I haven't, though, watched this movie since the last time we covered it on the podcast. Just a couple things for context here. What a milestone this is to now be at this point in the podcast journey. The last time we covered this movie, it was the first ever episode where we changed our format and split the episode into two sections, spoiler free and then spoiler zone. And we actually had uh back then like a spoiler horn uh for marking the difference between the two sections. And this episode released January 12th, 2018. So it's wild to think that we're now in 2022 doing this again. To prepare for the episode, I went back and revisited it, and I'm like, do I still stand by a lot of my opinions? And I think largely I do, but I was excited to take those things in mind and then revisit it with a fresh perspective of does this movie age as well as I expect it to? But what were you all expecting?

SPEAKER_01 8:44

I don't know why, but for some reason I was expecting a very different vibe, something closer to Happy Death Day.

SPEAKER_05 8:50

I was expecting teeth vibe. That's where I was at. Once I once I read the little description, because I read it just before watching, it said a sexual encounter goes wrong, and I was like, uh oh. We got we got Alexa's teeth vibes up in here.

SPEAKER_03 9:03

Paris, like you. I was wondering how I was gonna feel about this movie, knowing the plot, essentially, but honestly not remembering any detail of this movie. So I was like, am I gonna be bored? Am I not? I was expecting honestly to be bored by this.

SPEAKER_05 9:20

I feel like if I was rewatching this, I would be bored too. So I totally see why you guys would expect that.

SPEAKER_03 9:26

Yeah, especially when you know what's gonna go on. But like I said, I didn't remember any of the details. So I was like, okay, maybe I won't be, but honestly, if I know the whole gimmick, then what's the point? But the suspense. Yeah, the suspense usually gets me, but I feel like I've watched a bunch of movies where I forget what happens. And this one, I know exactly what happens. Yeah, it would be difficult to forget. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:48

It's interesting that you guys think it'd be easy to be bored by this movie on a rewatch, and I think I understand why. Because this is one of those that's like a really slow burn. It's one of those movies that's very atmospheric. And I think this kind of kicked off a point, a point in horror where I was okay with the atmosphere, but some other movies tended to draw out the atmosphere a little bit too much, and I don't know why, it just never hit quite the same for me as this movie did. I found myself still, though, really caught off guard by how much I felt during the runtime. And I think the space and like the time and distance from watching this movie, you know, it's an hour and 47 minutes long, but I still felt like a growing tension in the movie. I think it has its shares of like classic horror motifs, right? Like trying to do some things that are like very jump scary. But really, this movie is one that's more so like filled with like a palpable tension, not necessarily in the way that modern horror does, but in the way that kind of like crawls under your skin and makes you really uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_01 10:57

I uh completely agree. I mean, this I don't know if it's the pacing or what, but it's it feels like taxing, like it leaves you on high alert at all times. And it's it reminds me of watching like a shark in the water and there's people swimming near it, and you just know that at some point they're gonna get bit. And they keep swimming, and the shark is circling, but it's just like while watching this, I it it definitely was completely different from my expectations, has a very serious kind of feel to it, and you just can't help it. You're like kind of sweating a little bit.

SPEAKER_04 11:30

And I think you're kind of sweating if you it it like it depends on what you are choosing to look at in the movie and latch on to.

SPEAKER_05 11:37

Agreed. And again, like Max said, it's a very different vibe from what I was expecting. Come super serious, and it uh in all honesty, doesn't feel good. I didn't feel good almost at any point of this movie, from maybe the very first scene all the way to the very last scene.

SPEAKER_03 11:54

There is no moment of feeling good here. Yeah, definitely. I love how they for me have this feeling of dread. That's how I felt throughout this movie, and it just continues because I'm so used to, you know, you don't have the tension throughout the movie like you do, typically in others. So I'm waiting for the resolution, I'm waiting for this like dread to be done, but it's just constantly building. So I can definitely agree with most of you on this part.

SPEAKER_06 12:21

This movie does a really good job of building that like palpable tension for both the characters and the viewers. And I feel like it does a really good job of giving everyone this sense of paranoia, where like really from the first couple scenes, you're like looking over everyone's shoulder, you're like, wait, what's that? Oh my god, what's over there? Even in like the most innocuous scenes. And I felt that a lot when I watched it the first time, and that's what made it stand out to me so much. But this time I found myself sort of looking at it from a different perspective. I know that this is one of those movies where there's a lot of things like hidden in the details that you might overlook on first watch. So I actually, before watching this, I went through like the full trivia of like all the like the 25 things you missed in It Follows. And I watched that, or like I watched that video and I read through some articles so that I could kind of pick up on those things. And I felt like it was pretty surprising how many little details are there that add value without you realizing that they're adding value. Like things that you don't consciously notice are still having an impact on this overall feeling of tension.

SPEAKER_03 13:17

That's awesome. I would love to look at something like that because I feel like I appreciate this film more than I already do, probably.

SPEAKER_06 13:23

I might blow everyone away when it comes time for fact or fiction.

SPEAKER_04 13:27

Come on now, you better. I think there's a lot to be said for that, Paris. It's almost like when you're you know making a meal and you have just the right seasoning that really like enhances and complements the flavor of like whatever you already have. But when I think about what this movie makes me feel, it's overwhelmingly positive, except for one thing. There's something new that emerged for me, and something that we actually addressed in our original episode on this, and there was an issue that was raised with one of the characters, and I didn't see it then in like in a way that I could like really grab onto, but it's all that could stand out to me this time around, and how much I disliked them. It's absolutely absurd. Uh we'll we get to the second half, we'll we can spoil things, we'll unpack it, but I found one character in this particularly distracting in a negative way.

SPEAKER_05 14:17

I can't wait to figure out if that's who I think it is, because there's a person that really stuck out to me as like, this doesn't seem like the bad guy, but I really don't like his vibe. So we'll see. Very intrigued. For me, I'm actually surprised by how much time I spent trying to figure out this movie. Like, it was one of those things where I felt like I understood it and at the same time was questioning myself throughout the entire watch. It's because it's indie. That's why. You know, I think you're right, but it is. I didn't know this was an indie film. So going in, I was not prepared for that. And even from the very beginning, I had to run it back because I was like, wait, what's happening? And that continued kind of the whole way through. And it's not because this is a really complex, confusing, ridiculous storyline. It's just because it's almost so obvious that it's makes you question yourself.

SPEAKER_04 15:06

I don't know. It was very weird. Well, it also like packs in a lot of layers. Yes. There are a lot of things to unpack in this movie, and it's so simple on the outside, but it's almost like really elegant design work where it looks really simple and it looks really effortless, but at every step of the way, there's something packed in there that you can just nibble on even more. That's a great way to describe it.

SPEAKER_03 15:27

It's like you don't realize how much work is below the surface. Agree. And I think that's what surprised me a lot was the lack of score in this movie and how simplistic when they did bring in a score or some sort of background music that it just added to the movie. I mean, even crickets in the background. I'm like, you know what, it really suspends you into this movie. And y'all know I hate synthesizers in movies, but let me tell you, it was perfect in this. And I think the balance between the two, the dead silence and that was just remarkable.

SPEAKER_04 16:03

Okay, ma'am. This is a John Carpenter uh love letter, and the man loves synths. You gotta get good synths in there. Oh, I could totally see that.

SPEAKER_01 16:12

I I think the thing that surprised me the most I mean, there's a lot when that goes in this movie. Like you've all mentioned, there's so many layers and so many little details, but the thing that was just so simple that surprised me was the effectiveness of the antagonist. Like as you're watching the antagonist on screen, it's it's nothing crazy. It doesn't have to be insane to be effective. And this really proves how something could be so menacing but not be overly complex.

SPEAKER_06 16:40

I totally agree, Mac. It's like that feeling when you're playing tag and you're a kid, and like the person that's it is like so close to getting you, and you're like, ah, but they don't get you, but they're so close. It's like that really specific feeling drawn out over almost two hours in such a slow, painful, agonizing, and stressful way.

SPEAKER_01 17:00

It really has a nightmarish feel.

SPEAKER_04 17:03

But is it scaredy?

SPEAKER_01 17:05

I think it has a high creep factor, but not necessarily like a high fright factor.

SPEAKER_05 17:10

It's a bit debatable for the for the fear of this movie for me, because I did definitely get a little weirded out after I finished watching it, and there was like a noise randomly on one of my walls, and like I am one of those see things in the shadows kind of people.

SPEAKER_04 17:24

So The Coward the Creeper, yes.

SPEAKER_05 17:25

Right, right, right. Exactly. Honestly, I was looking for people a little bit the way I was looking for people after Candyman. You know, like, are they in the shadows? Is that a person on top of my house? I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 17:36

Yeah, this isn't one that scared me, or I think even really gave me the lasting impact it gave you, Ryan. But it's for sure one of those things that like it has this beautiful portrayal of inevitable lurking, right? Something lurking in the shadows, something lurking in the background. And Paris, I love the way you describe that as like uh the person who's it can almost get you, and they just don't quite get you. Because this movie knows how to get under your skin, and it makes you feel like your muscles are just tightening and you're holding your breath, not for like the suspense of what they're going through, but almost more like anticipation. And I know that's like a very nuanced difference between the two, but it felt for me more like anticipation. It's like surely there's no way they're getting out of this. So let's just see what it what where the cards fall.

SPEAKER_05 18:21

It's unsettling. That's like for me the perfect word of how this movie makes you feel in regards to the fear.

SPEAKER_03 18:28

Yeah, I definitely have that fear in general sometimes. So you know, when you're in a car and you're like someone's in the backseat, probably because I listen to a lot of true crime podcasts that I always think someone's behind me. But even like when I go outside sometimes, uh maybe single female, I just figure someone's walking behind me all the time. Can you relate, Ryan? It you know, it's a thing, it's kind of what happens in the movie. I know, right? This movie has a bunch of layers, so I think the practicality of what's going on in this movie is frightening, but also, like I said, the fear of something following you, whether it's real, not real, I mean, just that feeling, even if someone's not behind you, is terrifying.

SPEAKER_06 19:12

The first time I saw this movie, I was scared. This time, not so much, but one of the jump scares gets me every single time.

SPEAKER_05 19:19

I can't wait to hear what that is.

SPEAKER_06 19:22

You know what it is. I mean, I guess you don't, because you just said that.

SPEAKER_05 19:25

Certainly just one of the various loud noises after a silence.

SPEAKER_04 19:28

Okay, so I'm really excited to see which of those jump scares hit for you that way. When you're looking at this movie, there I think there's a lot of elements that I see pulled from other classic horror films. None of them felt like jump scares to me, so this movie felt like the the efforts it makes to scare you are more unique to it than I think some of the other moments we get. Like, for example, there's a moment when our main girl Jay is calling to someone else from her bedroom window, and it's very Nancy and Glenn from A Nightmare on Elm Street, and then there's plenty of moments in this movie that are very John Carpenter's Halloween, like looking out the window to see someone lurking in the background, and you're wondering, oh, who the fuck is that spooky person? There are so many shots in here that feel like other horror movies, but this still feels original. It's I know that there's a lot of comparisons that get made between this movie and like a Reddit thread about a snail who's always on its way to you and it can't die, and you get paid $10 million, but you can't escape the snail. What do you do?

SPEAKER_06 20:28

Oh my god, I forgot about the snail.

SPEAKER_04 20:30

But this feels like a singular film. This takes the trope of if you have sex in a horror movie, you will die, and it turns it on its head in a very unique way to me.

SPEAKER_01 20:42

Yes, it's as a vibe, it's got it's just its own thing. I'm sorry, it's super original.

SPEAKER_03 20:48

I guess I see where you guys are coming from, and maybe I just took it as a plot perspective and then all the layers because obviously this movie is very original. But it does remind me of another movie called Contracted, which I encourage our listeners to watch. Um, I liked it. It's more of if I took this movie and made it really gory. But I like how this is more of an entity sort of thing that's following you, and it might not be the physical aspect, but just like we talked before, just this menacing presence. So I find that original. And even though it reminds me of another movie, it's still original.

SPEAKER_05 21:26

Yeah, I think this can remind you of many things, kind of like Chris was saying. For me, it's original because of the subject matter and the style put together. We've talked about many times you can have the same ingredients and make different cakes. This is one of those situations. It's original because of the perfect recipe of what comes together.

SPEAKER_01 21:44

And I think talking about coming together, the ending that we get, I mean, it's just got one of those like inception level endings. So it leaves you with either a ton of philosophical questions or really solid answers, depending on who you are.

SPEAKER_05 21:57

I hate the ending, not because it's bad. But because I hate it. Like it just feels so ugh. It just it was just horrible. It's not a bad ending. Don't get me wrong. I just don't like how it makes you feel.

SPEAKER_04 22:09

Okay, so I originally loved the ending of this movie because on paper I think I like the idea of the consequences and the outcomes of things. Watching it again, it was pretty meh. It didn't age as well.

SPEAKER_06 22:22

I feel that, Chris. I feel like this movie made its mark when it came out and said, hey, look at this thing that no one else has done. I definitely give it originality points for that. But I think the ending kind of was one of the less remarkable components of it. Both then and now, I'd say.

SPEAKER_05 22:40

But literally, I'm not certain that there's any other way they could really go about an ending here because of how the movie progresses. As it was ending, I was like, this feels like there's nothing really else to do. There's nowhere, you know, I get it. I get it.

SPEAKER_04 22:53

And that's fair. Logically, it makes sense. I just think for some reason, and I think it's because of something I've picked up on in this movie that I dislike. I think it was just in my head, and I could not bring myself to enjoy the climax of this film.

SPEAKER_03 23:07

I wonder if we're thinking about the same thing because there's a certain aspect of this movie and or character that I just do not like. And I guess you can take this ending in different perspectives depending on how you view a few of the last scenes. But I was left underwhelmed, I think. It definitely was something typical I've seen in movies before, and it didn't leave me feeling all that great, but not that bad. It was just, like you said, Paris. Meh.

SPEAKER_04 23:35

Okay, so it sounds like there's a little bit of a mixed bag on our feelings about the ending, and I'm excited to see how that translates into the scores. But before we get to our ratings, Alexis, how many people died in this film? We had a total of only two deaths this week. And what about the animal report? Our animal report is good to go.

SPEAKER_06 23:52

Could you imagine if it wasn't though?

SPEAKER_04 23:54

Oh god. Well, let's go ahead and get into our ratings, and it follows from 2014 as selected to be resurrected by our patrons. Was it a hacker or slash?

SPEAKER_01 24:03

I'm gonna jump in on this one simply because I love that I got to read Jake's reasoning for why we should watch this movie, and I'm going to agree. I'm gonna be bold. This film might be a modern horror masterpiece. It has nearly Kubrick level pacing. It has a timeless feel, it has the most subtle pieces of information sprinkled throughout, informing us about our characters and their families without unnecessary exposition. It has color-coded foreshadowing, and most of all, it's got all sorts of different levels of meaning to be extracted that the creator didn't even intend. It's 100% a Mac certified slash.

SPEAKER_03 24:34

I agree with you, Mac. Jake who nominated this, mentioned this movie set a new bar on how he experiences horror audibly and visually. And I honestly couldn't agree more. This is definitely a slash, and this movie grabs me personally from the beginning. And I don't know if it's the setting because the setting seems like super familiar to me. Very Ohio-ish, very suburban. Even the interactions you have with the characters, it just seems familiar. And I can't wait till we get to the visuals because I have a very long list. And as I mentioned before, what surprised me were how the auditory effects help me stay engaged throughout this movie. So with those things, I have to admit there's no gore in this, but there's definitely a scene that I will uh praise that they gave this movie and I appreciate it. And that's also why this is getting a slash. Nice.

SPEAKER_05 25:27

I think I could have probably predicted both of those things coming in here. And I'm actually quite torn about this movie. I think it's not very easy for me to put how I feel into words. When I started watching this movie, I felt like I could smell the nostalgia. Like I know this neighborhood. I feel like I've been in this neighborhood. I can relate to them. I grew up with a parent that was out of the house so much, and it doesn't hit the way it did in like Fear Street, where it was like, oh, y'all are in this chash neighborhood. These just feel like kids. Like this feels like such a real setting. And that's honestly probably part of what I don't like is how real it feels. It's a little too much for me. And shout out to Jake for recommending this for us. But I'm gonna have to disagree with some of the things, and because that's what we do here. The audio in this movie drove me nuts. I mean, to the end of my rope at some points where I was riding the remote. And I didn't love it. I think it was interesting, I think it did what it was trying to do, but it didn't, I didn't like what it was trying to do. With that being said, I have to give this a slash because it is a very good movie. It's very intriguing, it really pulls you in. There's so much to it, and I had to look into what everything meant to make sure I was on the right path. And it's it's a lot, but I don't like how it makes me feel. I don't like the movie. So this is a a complicated slash here, but I I think it would be wrong for me to say it's a hack. It's just too good to hack it. I just don't like it. Is this a sibling that you love but you don't like?

SPEAKER_02 26:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 27:00

I guess it could be that. It it's a very complicated one. I appreciate it, but I don't like it. And and therefore it's a slash. I think I would be leading people astray if I gave you a hack for this.

SPEAKER_03 27:10

I feel like I gave that rating before, like didn't enjoy it, but still appreciated and it was noteworthy.

SPEAKER_05 27:16

And very different from something like Neon Demon. It it's a difference from between just not liking something. I wouldn't give a slash to something if I just didn't like it without appreciating it.

SPEAKER_06 27:25

So I mentioned earlier that I have seen this movie before, and the first time I saw it, I was like, this is definitely a notable horror film. But I was afraid this time around that because I'd already seen it, it might not hold my interest. And I have to admit, I did fall asleep watching this movie again. But what I did not mention up until now is that after watching this movie for the first time, it quickly became one of my favorites. And something really interesting happened that I'd never seen happen before in my life, where I searched on my Apple TV, It Follows, and not one, not two, but ten of the first related films, when you search It Follows, were movies that we have either reviewed on this podcast and I've slashed, or I've seen on my own and I have slashed. And I have never seen such solid recommendations given by searching a single movie. It had The Witch, it had Hereditary, it had The House of the Devil, which I didn't even remember loving.

SPEAKER_04 28:22

So if Tara from Scream 2022 had a recommendation, a cue on your Apple TV, this would be it.

SPEAKER_06 28:30

Yeah, that movie helped me realize that I am Tara from Scream 5. We have the same tastes. But ultimately, this is a really great movie. I love what it did. It feels so fresh. Even watching it again, I loved. If you've already seen this movie, listeners, look up all the fun little facts about it and watch it again with those things in mind because you'll find yourself picking up on all of these details you didn't see the first couple times around. And you appreciate this movie in so many new ways with so many new shades and layers to consider. This movie's so thoughtful and it's so well done, and it is absolutely a slash.

SPEAKER_04 29:01

Okay, so there's been a lot of praise for this movie so far. And I think I mentioned earlier, right? One of those things of this movie, for me in my life, I really enjoyed it the first few times I saw it, and coming into this one, I was like, all right, is it gonna hold the same weight? Is it gonna hold the same value? And I think most of the time it did. There is something that really drives me nuts that's kind of weakened the third act for this of this film for me. But the reality is that this movie is hailed as one of the best of its time. And again, I think that's because of the layers to its storytelling. On the surface, right, it's really easy to see this as just don't have sex in a horror movie, and this is why. But to others, it's a representation of living in a world post-trauma, whether that be sexual assault or otherwise. We think about our own lived experiences, we think about how we receive movies based on how we've lived our lives. And for me, I think this movie can be enjoyable if you take it for what it is, but when you choose to look beneath the surface, there's like all this enriching content with painful themes, and it's a story about survival, support, fear, innocence lost, inevitability. And I I shared this, you know, when we first did this movie back in 2018. But in 2013 I was diagnosed with PTSD, and watching this movie and thinking about how tense it is, it's because it's such an accurate portrayal of someone living life with PTSD. Even though this movie is not really about that in particular. And obviously there's no sex demon following me, but this is a powerful movie that shows what it's like to contend with something invisible that only you can see, that only you can feel and contend with, and really just having your people around you trying to support you, but they have no idea what's going on, and at times they question if it's real. That is a movie with gravity, and that's why it's still a slash. And with that, it follows from 2014 as nominated and chosen by Jake and the rest of our patrons is a universal slash. Now, you can find this movie still streaming on American Netflix. Check it out, then join us in the second half so we can unpack the rest of this together. We'll see you in a bit.

SPEAKER_06 31:16

Being an ethical slut is so hard. Keeping track of your partners can be a challenge if you're booked and busy or drunk. In times like these, you need the lay log. The laylog lets you track and document your adult encounters to keep an up-to-date ledger of your every last pleasure. Just in case you wake up with a suspicious itch, you can use the lay log to conduct contact tracing. Include important details like the date of your encounter, your partner's zodiac sign, and whether or not you got off. Cute emojis indicate important details like quality of the experience, whether you'd revisit it again, and dick size. Keep those pesky STIs and sex demons away by logging your every lay with the Laylog. The Laylog may or may not be inspired by an actual note that exists on Paris' phone.

SPEAKER_04 32:02

Welcome back, folks. You're now entering the spoiler zone for It Follows, which has earned a universal slash. Now we have a lot to get to here, but before we get into the specifics of our ratings, we do have the matter of gore to attend to.

SPEAKER_03 32:13

Alexis, what's the gore score for this film? Alright, so if I'm doing hacker math and I'm taking the total runtime divided by the average amount of gore that's in this movie, I'm gonna say low. Uh thank you. Completely agree. Okay, completely agree. But the one part it's in is freaking nuts. And I love this movie for it.

SPEAKER_06 32:34

It's got a nice susperior pretzel vibe. Oh, okay. I was gonna say, what's the one part? Because I have a couple parts in mind, but that's the part.

SPEAKER_03 32:40

Okay, I would love to know the other parts, but um, to me, that's the only thing I rem remember is just, you know, how unsettling this is, even in a scene like that that you get within the first what, 15 minutes. Yeah, and just to clarify, we're talking about the girl on the beach. Yeah, we're talking about Annie's death, and it's in the first 15 minutes, and it just lingers and lingers. I'm like, man, this is what I'm here for.

SPEAKER_06 33:03

It's such a good first kill. And also, like, obviously, she's caught off guard when this all happens, but the whole time you're questioning, like, why is she in that ridiculous pump? And I think it was really just so we could get that final shot.

SPEAKER_05 33:13

Wow, Paris. Oh my god, the whole time I was thinking, oh my god, that pump, not why'd you run out of your house and then back into your house and then leave and then call your parents? None of those things, just why are you wearing that pump?

SPEAKER_04 33:24

But isn't that such a great moment, though, when you realize that she's just caught off guard in the middle of getting ready for either work or school, probably work. And you go through this whole emotional journey with her, and it's just the bizarreness of running out, standing back, looking. We don't see anything, no one else sees anything, running in a circle back in. And then to hear that really emotional phone call with her father, and just that like apology of I'm sorry I can be such a shit to you.

SPEAKER_05 33:50

That's heavy. Yeah, I feel like she could have kept running. I feel like she could have driven there seems to be something logistically that you could do to get away.

SPEAKER_03 33:57

I mean, you couldn't get away. This thing is so slow, but I mean, even Michael Myers catches up with you.

SPEAKER_04 34:02

So that's the whole thing about horror movies and why killers don't run, because it's about inevitability. You have to stand and face your fears, because if you just keep running, it'll always come for you.

SPEAKER_06 34:13

Time marches on.

SPEAKER_04 34:15

And pretty much you just gotta keep having sex. That's what's the issue here.

SPEAKER_06 34:19

Moral of the story.

SPEAKER_03 34:20

Sure. If that's what you want to take away from this, absolutely. So obviously, Annie, first kill, second kill, Greg. I'm not sure how anyone feels about that. It was very It's uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_01 34:33

That's what it is.

SPEAKER_04 34:33

Yeah, it contributes to the things I didn't like feeling during this movie. I don't understand the mechanics of the entity killing people because you would think, you know, destroys your body, but with Greg, it's like he got sexed to death.

SPEAKER_05 34:49

Yeah, it didn't make a lot of sense if we're being honest here.

SPEAKER_03 34:52

And is there a double standard? There is a double standard here.

SPEAKER_06 34:55

I think the only way Annie's leg could have bent that way is if she had been sexed to death.

SPEAKER_03 35:00

She was in the pretzel.

SPEAKER_05 35:02

Also possible. Okay. I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 35:04

But also the demon peeing while sexing to death, and also the incest element, it was a lot.

SPEAKER_05 35:09

Was it peeing? I didn't even notice.

SPEAKER_06 35:11

Oh, it was pissing, bitch.

SPEAKER_05 35:13

It was very wet on the wrists. There was also a weird like electrocution feeling in that moment, too. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 35:20

So I I think these are like images of these people as they're dying. And that's what it's like capturing and showing. So the pissing of the pants, when I saw that to when it appeared and was peeing on the floor in like the kitchen or something, and I was like, oh, this is it's showing them like somebody dying actively. And that's what I took away. So it made a lot of sense to me. So it's like reliving those final moments of these people's lives.

SPEAKER_05 35:44

But the one was like a bloody situation, like a period situation.

SPEAKER_01 35:49

Well, who knows? Maybe I'm just making it all up. I'm not, I mean, I don't know. I just it seemed like that in that moment, because a lot of them, some of them were people that were still alive, but others like seemed like they were obviously already dead.

SPEAKER_05 36:01

I think the questions are exactly what they were going for here. They wanted to leave us with this.

SPEAKER_03 36:07

Maybe they wanted to leave us with that, but it was very interesting because this film was actually supposedly supposed to be more violent in the initial scripts, but they had to tone it down for an R rating. And I'm glad they did that because I feel like it would have taken from the beauty of this film the meaning behind this film, too. That is the most shocking part of this whole episode.

SPEAKER_06 36:30

I what? Alexis, we can have both. We've had both in the past.

SPEAKER_03 36:34

Or can you lose? No. I feel like if you're really trying deep down to talk about someone who's been through a traumatic experience, and I mean, obviously, this isn't about STDs, it's literally about something a little bit more deep. But if you're trying to do that, and then there's a bunch of gore, and I mean, I can't imagine what would be more violent, but I don't think what they might have had in mind would have been appropriate, if you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_05 37:01

I think you're 100% right because more gore and more kills would have meant it just feels like you're passing a death onto people. It doesn't feel like if it actually caught up to more people and killed them on screen, it wouldn't have had the weight that it has, like emotionally.

SPEAKER_04 37:17

You're absolutely right, Ryan. The emotion of these deaths and the emotion of like this entity hunting people and and always lurking and always moving forward packs such a punch to your gut when you're watching this movie. And I think about it again and again and again with that death with Annie, and I gotta say, I think part of what drives that emotion is the way this movie is lit. Lighting is key in any horror movie, but there are only a f a few horror movies that shine in terms of like the composition of their shots, and this movie dominates those in my mind. It sets the mood and it sets the atmosphere with its lighting. And specifically, it's with Annie's death. It's the the shot in the opening sequence where the entire scene is lit by headlights and taillights of a car. And that felt very John Carpenter to me. It felt very much like that. I think we see even a similar shot. You know, I know that John Carpenter produced uh the 2018 Halloween, but I'm thinking of when we have Michael Myers standing over Dr. Sartain and he's just lit up by the police lights. There's something about that that has just like a really chilling effect. And to even see this is the first time I've seen this on like I think on a better quality TV, to even see the subtle darkness of the ocean behind her with the moonlight. I think there might have even been a boat back there. This movie is pristine in its lighting.

SPEAKER_03 38:41

Definitely I'm glad you mentioned Annie because my favorite visual is definitely these scenes where there's a solitaire subject and essentially the camera's pulled far enough back where you kind of get a panoramic shot. So, you know, when Annie's on the street, you know, there's this lady talking to her, and you can see the whole neighborhood. I mean, and it's just focusing on her, you know, when she's on the beach and you see her, and there's a car, you can see the beams. Like, I love that. And then, you know, the car scene with Jay pulled back, all you see is this yellow car and the darkness behind it. And when she's in the wheelchair as well, and it's just this unsettling feeling. But I love how they are able to make a single subject, a single object look amazing, and you really focus on it. And I feel like that just deepens the movie as well.

SPEAKER_04 39:34

Okay, I love that you point that out, particularly because when you think about how tight all those shots start, you're looking at like how focused they are with on each other at the beginning of this movie. And then as each shot pulls out, you're realizing how much space is around them and how small they are in comparison to like the rest of the world and what's coming.

SPEAKER_05 39:56

Yes, there is no mistake about how beautifully this movie is shot. I do have one particular thing, which Alexis actually just brought up, and it's in the wheelchair. So the camera here is on the wheelchair, which means the camera and the wheelchair are stationary, and everything that's happening to her and around her moves separately. And it is just such a simple thing that you wouldn't think about. And I spent a bunch of time thinking about what the camera looked like on the chair, like what she must have been looking at while she was acting through the scene, but it just made for such a jarring scene as it was like our second bit of violence. It was just lovely. I don't know how you aren't a director and decide to shoot things that way, but God, it's a good decision.

SPEAKER_06 40:41

I think initially, the first time I watched this, the cinematography really stood out to me, especially the way they used like wide-angle lenses to create those super atmospheric like shots where it's ton of a ton of space and like Alexa said, like a single subject. I always really love that style visually. But something that I read when I was looking into this movie a little bit further, uh, has now become my new favorite visual element. And it's the fact that something subtle in this movie is that not only do you not have a sense of like what time period it takes place in, like what year, but you also have really no accurate sense of what time of year it is. Like we start out with Jay in the swimming pool, and I also love the allegory of the swimming pool that we can talk about later. Uh you see her swimming in her bathing suit, but then later they're walking down the street in like full winter coats, and on one side of the street it's green grass, and the other side of the street it's just like autumn leaves. So the whole time you're just like vaguely unsettled, but you're not picking up on it consciously. You're just kind of like in your the back of your mind, like something's not quite right, and it helps to build that stress because like at no point do you ever feel comfortable with what you're seeing.

SPEAKER_01 41:42

They make it seem so dreamlike to where things like things are close to reality, but you can tell it's not right. Just slightly off. Oh yeah, and the like the set dressing here is perfect. They they made some really deliberate choices. So corded phones, but a clamshell mobile device. Iconic. Black and white photos, 50s movies and cartoons, vintage kitchen appliances, old TVs, old cars. It just like you're like, when is this supposed to be? But then there's new cars. So it it really like doesn't line up with anything, and I love it. It it's very popular in like video games and stuff where you'll like pull in, usually it's like 50s vibes, so you'll you'll have like fifties cars in there, but then you're also in the future somehow. But this one, it uses it to make it seem like a nightmare. Things are really close to real, but they just don't seem right.

SPEAKER_05 42:31

Yeah, it's dreamlike, but negative, but misery, basically.

SPEAKER_06 42:36

It's like those pictures where it's like, what's wrong with this image? And it takes you like a couple minutes to figure it out, and you're like, oh wait, the sun is in the sky, but there's no shadow. It's those little things that like really build up.

SPEAKER_05 42:45

Yeah, and I did definitely notice because I was like, hmm, this really feels like my childhood. Is this like 90s vibes? But then at the same time, there was all these random things, and I knew that at no point did they make it clear. I will say though, the use of synth in the music kind of pushed it to like a general decade time time frame, like somewhere between 80s and 90s, which I could have done without the synths. I'm not the it's not, it didn't work for me.

SPEAKER_03 43:11

Yeah, but one of the characters had like a it looked like a compact mirror and she was reading from it. So it like it it is very off-balancing to me. Because I'm like, what is this? This is beyond our time, because I've never seen anything like that. I mean, obviously there are iPhones that you can read on, but this seemed like a pocket watch sort of thing. It was really cool.

SPEAKER_05 43:34

And I wish I had paid a little more attention to those things, but they they made enough of an impact to know that I caught was caught off guard by it, but not enough for me to be like paying attention, trying to figure out what they're doing with it, which oh my god, what a balance that is.

SPEAKER_01 43:46

You know, Ryan, the thing you mentioned with the wheelchair, that's that whole scene is my favorite of the movie. Hugh introducing Jay to it, whatever it would end up being, was like the most. Most enthralling, I think, because you know we've we've got the wheelchair segment, like obviously the whole ether thing that sucks really horrible. But I have to show you this so you know it's real. That that feeling of like I'm doing this to help you. Sorry, I did this to you though. And I just kept wondering, are you going to loosen her hands? Are you gonna help her? What's going on here? Are you just gonna leave her and then hope for the best? I don't understand exactly how you think this is gonna work out. But to finally see because we've we've all read the description or seeing a trailer or something, we don't know what to expect exactly. But to see just a human being naked but walking up, you're like, what the hell is he scared of? I don't understand what's happening. Like, is it gonna fly? Is it gonna bite? We don't we just don't know yet. And it's just slow and steady in it. And again, it's like watching a shark circling around the water. Um that that whole segment just really set the tone for the movie for me.

SPEAKER_03 44:53

Yeah, it definitely reminded me of something from The Shining, I feel like.

SPEAKER_01 44:56

Absolutely. It's like the bathtub scene in The Shining.

SPEAKER_03 44:58

It's crazy you mentioned that because when Hugh says, Do you see that girl in the yellow dress right there when they're playing this game? And I think that's when I was like, oh wow, what is this movie? Okay, cool. He's seeing something, we're not, she's not, something's disjointed. And that definitely is my favorite scene. It reminds me of when the character in the Sixth Sense says, I see dead people, and you're like, oh shit. You know, that was like a very 90s, early 2000s thing to like remember that iconically, and I feel like this is very similar feeling.

SPEAKER_04 45:35

Alexis, that's such a good one, and I think it's the first thing of like there's something not right here, and you see the joy fade from his face. And I think re-watching this movie, knowing who Hugh is and seeing how he responds to Jay at different points in the movie makes that moment even richer. Mine is kind of like at the opposite end of the spectrum on Jay's journey. When we start this movie, we see her and she's in this phase of innocence. Not necessarily in terms of what she's done in life, but rather she's not brought into this mess that he was in. She's totally unscathed by it. But in my favorite scene, it's when she's on the beach, her hair is pulled up, and we can see her battling and her fighting, and everybody around her is starting to take her a little bit more seriously. We have the chair that's broken on nothing by Paul. And we have the rest of the girls panicking as well, and they're running into this shack. But here's why this is my favorite scene. It's specifically this comment of there's nothing out here. And they're saying, Yes, there is. It's showing how beautifully painful it is for someone living with PTSD or any type of trauma. You're constantly screaming, you're constantly running, you're fighting for your life, and as much as your friends really want to help you, as much as they really want to support you, all they can do is try to shield you and try to embrace you and ask you what you see. It's a really interesting, like stark contrast of like what her closest friends do versus what he does on the outside looking in. Plus, I think you just get the great spookiness of the entity shifting shapes throughout so many moments on the beach.

SPEAKER_06 47:17

Of course, I love that specifically because at one point it takes the shape of Yara and the way it gets shot in like the neck-shoulder area, you see it explode with blood, collapse on the ground, and seemingly die, and then just casually get right back up. That was actually my favorite death if we had to have a favorite death.

SPEAKER_04 47:32

I get knocked down, but I get up again. You're never gonna keep me down.

SPEAKER_06 47:35

But I thought for sure you were about to take my favorite scene when you said it was Jay on the beach. Because, like you said, the whole time we see like Jay's journey through like innocence lost. And I feel like partially that's symbolized like by the pool, because you start off in the pool and she's like serene and chill, and the pool's like clean and nice, and like it just seems like a vibe. But then later, as she like goes through all this like bullshit, there's a scene where she's on the beach and she looks out into the water and she's like really at her wit's end with this and she just doesn't know what to do, and she sees these dudes on a boat. And I don't know if this is the universal interpretation, but I I'm pretty sure she fucked those guys on that boat.

SPEAKER_04 48:13

Okay. So this is debated because my interpretation of it is that she wanted to and she swam and she probably tried and like was committed to that thought, but didn't. Because at the end of it, when she comes back, A, it's still haunting her. So we know that like there's no way it killed all three dudes that quickly. But B, her reaction, it seemed more defeated. It seemed like I don't think I even had the strength to go fuck somebody else if I wanted to.

SPEAKER_05 48:40

But see, I think it doesn't go away. I think the thing of like it'll go away as long as you give it to somebody else. Like it if you die, it comes back to me. I don't think that's actually true because it never went away. Because our boy Hugh was still being haunted by it, right? So even though she hadn't died, it was still with him. So I feel like it is a theory that it goes away once you pass it on, but I don't think it's actually true.

SPEAKER_04 49:01

Well, he you can still see it. So he could still see the entity, but the entity was focused on her. That's why he was telling her, just pass it on, just pass it on. It should be easy for you. You're a girl, all this fucking misogyny. Just pass it on because you can still see it. It's just not, it's not laser focused on you.

SPEAKER_06 49:19

Right. It just like shifts you down on the list. You're still on the list, and it will get you eventually. And I honestly assume that it just like took those guys out on the boat pretty quickly because she didn't tell them what it was, and it just like bought her some time. And the reason I guess I'm on that side of the debate, Chris, is because right after that scene where it's like implied that at least something was attempted or maybe given up on there, it cuts back to the pool, and you see the pool absolutely in shambles. Like it's drained out, like half the side is collapsed, there's like leaves and trash in it. And I'm like, this girl's innocence is shot at this point. She has gone through so much bullshit.

SPEAKER_04 49:52

Well, yes, but I see that as the representation of her, you know, you're in a pool, right? You're a big fish in a small pond. The world is your oyster, but you don't know how much you don't know much of the world yet. And I think that's even talked about later on as they're approaching the school, and it's like, oh, that's when the suburbs end and the city begins. But the more she experiences, regardless of what her intent is, and I think we think about innocence as either like what is the innocence of your motives or what is the innocence in terms of like what you've experienced in life. I don't think she fully pulled the trigger on I'm gonna just buy myself some time and have sex with all three guys. But I think that the pull is representative of just the progression of how terrible this situation has gotten because of how much she's experienced.

SPEAKER_06 50:37

I love how valid all of these interpretations are. That's what makes this movie so great.

SPEAKER_05 50:41

It's art, which again, I think this is exactly what they wanted from us. They want us to have these questions. So my favorite scene could honestly be a collection, and I'll give one specific, but basically it's it's every time the entity is like with a group, behind a group, behind a person, and they have no idea. And Jay is the only person that could see it. So, like one that happens that's really great is on the beach when they can't warn her that it's coming up behind her. You know, they can't warn her that it's coming because they can't see it. But my favorite is when she's driving away in the car and they're all running after her, like, come back, come back, that's my car. But the entity is walking behind them still, and it's just it's like a hopeless, comical feeling that you have there where they're just they think everything's chill, they can, you know, chase after whatever. The entity is still there, it's completely hopeless, but it was just a good moment, and there were so many of those throughout.

SPEAKER_04 51:37

How great though that they didn't run into this invisible entity.

SPEAKER_05 51:40

Right. He was just perfectly behind them. It I think it was a she at that point, but perfectly behind them.

SPEAKER_01 51:44

I do like that they tried to they they tried to trick you a little bit. Like they had shots where people were walking slowly towards them, but they did it in a way so that you didn't you don't know. You don't know if it's it, the thing, the entity, or if it's just like some random person who's walking across the street.

SPEAKER_04 52:00

Like the opening is Shawn of the Dead when everyone's basically a zombie before they're ever zombies.

SPEAKER_01 52:04

Oh yeah. Uh social commentary.

SPEAKER_05 52:07

I didn't think we would align this with Shawn of the Dead.

SPEAKER_01 52:10

Here we are. I'm here to help you connect the dots. Speaking of Shawn of the Dead, I want to talk about uh the zombie folk, aka the brain dead folk, aka Paul.

SPEAKER_04 52:19

All the men in this movie? All the men. Paul drove me fucking nuts this time.

SPEAKER_01 52:23

Paul drove me nuts the first time.

SPEAKER_03 52:25

The first time he didn't, I was like, oh, he's so sweet.

SPEAKER_05 52:28

And this time I'm like, what the hell? That's toxicity. Maybe our eyes have been opened to the predatory nature of people because oh god, every second I was just like, oh, he is gross and trying to pretend like he's not. And to be fair, I was on his team at the beginning and I was like, oh, and even like through when we got to like Greg and stuff, I was like, you know, she cares about him, so she didn't want to kill him. No, no, he's just thirsty. You know, I liked you too. Why'd you choose him?

SPEAKER_03 52:56

Get the fuck out of here, Paul.

SPEAKER_06 52:58

Oh my god, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 52:59

Yeah, he's one of those guys that pretend to be your friend for a long time and hoping it pays off, and that's shitty ass intentions.

SPEAKER_06 53:07

Alexis, literally, my best friend in high school was like gorgeous and funny and like perfect in every way, of course. And so many boys would just like message her like years later and be like, hey, I was always in love with you. So like I can spot a Paul from a mile away, and I was like, bitch, get out of here. Simping for her in the shadows, it's not gonna get you anywhere.

SPEAKER_04 53:26

You know, famously, gays have great Paul dogs. Because I can smell them too.

SPEAKER_05 53:32

Not for nothing, but Alexis's boyfriend was in the friend zone for a very long time and showed up after every breakup, okay?

SPEAKER_03 53:38

And he did tell his sister, you if you really like someone, you know, just keep putting forth effort. I think he was genuine.

SPEAKER_05 53:45

He's genuine in his intentions.

SPEAKER_06 53:47

Wait, your current boyfriend is a Paul?

SPEAKER_05 53:49

Current boyfriend. Current boyfriend.

SPEAKER_01 53:51

Oh, Alexis. No, wait, so okay, it's a little bit different though, because it was a bit of freezer action going on. A bit of pop him in the freezer and save him for later.

SPEAKER_05 54:00

Yeah, Lexus had him on ice. Because they kissed when they were five. Not that long. I'm dying. Yes. Anyway, Paul is like, he's gross in this, and you really think he has good intentions in the beginning. And it sucks so much when she stands up for like, uh do you actually want to help me? Like when she lets go of him and doesn't kiss him. It sucks so much that she did that, and that was so strong and beautiful, and she noticed and realized what was going on, and then had sex with him. Yeah, it sucks.

SPEAKER_04 54:30

And he was so dejected the whole time, too.

SPEAKER_06 54:33

He's a flaccid, impotent little piss worm. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 54:36

And he gets the girl, I don't think. Yeah, it was almost like she was like, Well, I guess this is where we're at. This is your last rodeo.

SPEAKER_04 54:44

Okay, it is this idea of having to settle. Oh, well, nobody's gonna love me like Paul loves me. Get the fuck out of here, Jay. You can do better. I'm sorry you have a sex demon, but you're worthy of love.

SPEAKER_06 54:54

It's another shot of the dead moment. It's another tremor's ending.

SPEAKER_03 54:59

Okay, Paula's bad, but Hugh has to be the worst because when he says this, I don't mean to go deep into stuff, but maybe there's something in the past that brought this up, but literally when he says, I'm sorry someone did this to me too, literally, I hated him more than anything in the entire world. I disagree.

SPEAKER_05 55:17

For me, that for me, I see him as a tortured end of his rope. He has nothing left person. He's desperate in that. Did you see the house he was living in? He was in complete desperation. Whereas But he leads this girl on to have sex with her, that's fucked up. Absolutely, but he did feel like he was literally saving his life. And and when we look at him versus like Greg and Paul, God, I'll take Hugh. I mean, I'm not saying he's great. Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to like defend him, but what he did compared to the way that Paul and Greg acted, it's completely different.

SPEAKER_04 55:52

Okay, here's the thing. Here's the thing that we see Hugh, and we think he's a big bad wolf when really Greg and Paul are the wolf in sheep's clothing. And we just think, oh yeah, they're not they're not as bad as Hugh, though. I think the point is they're all shitty.

SPEAKER_03 56:06

Yeah, I was gonna say, do we rank them? But I think they're all equally as shitty. It's it's Paul Greg Hugh. One, two, three. Yeah. I I see where you're coming from because they're sneaky about it and he's just being forthright about it. Yeah. Somewhat, more so.

SPEAKER_06 56:21

Once he uh chloroforms her.

SPEAKER_05 56:23

I mean, you have to think about let me take you to on a date first. It it's bad, it's bad, but also he's a man. And we're not gonna not say that it's harder for men to sleep with women than it is for women to sleep with men. True. You do have to do things. This feels like a slippery slope.

SPEAKER_02 56:38

It is true though, what she is saying.

SPEAKER_05 56:40

It is true.

SPEAKER_01 56:41

But here's the thing: why did he have to chloroform her and then strap her to a wheelchair though? He couldn't just be like, hey, by the way, hang on here for like an hour and this is gonna go down.

SPEAKER_05 56:51

I would think someone's psychotic if they said that. You wouldn't think the person coming is after you is killing you. For me, it was like he wanted to give her the most context he could because he didn't get it. It seemed to me like he didn't get that. And he was like, I had to basically figure out someone's trying to kill me every single day. So I need to give this to you, but I am gonna let you know what's going on at least.

SPEAKER_06 57:10

I don't know. That's giving Jigsaw energy at this point.

SPEAKER_04 57:13

It is. It's true. We're not gonna defend Jigsaw, but let me at least say this. There is a moment when I was reading the screenplay for this film where Jay tries to make a move and he's like, ooh, sorry, my stomach. So it shows almost like this grappling of I don't really want to do this. You know what I mean? But then as the entity gets closer and closer, he's like, fuck, I have to do this. I felt that. So it shows like a little bit of like, ooh, you know what I mean? Like there's a little bit more heart to Hugh. Doesn't make him bright.

SPEAKER_06 57:44

Let me just say this. If this were to happen in the gay community, this entity would not be able to keep up.

SPEAKER_05 57:52

I was actually thinking, is there like a mechanic to what passes it? Because okay, when Greg at first didn't die, I was like, is it because someone has the orgasm? Is that the thing?

SPEAKER_03 58:00

I wondered if it was the juice.

SPEAKER_04 58:02

I wondered.

SPEAKER_06 58:02

The juice?

SPEAKER_04 58:03

The director did say that same sex, it would still work. It's the same thing. They got really loosey-goosey on the details, right? But like the idea is just like a sexual encounter. Yeah, it's the idea of sex.

SPEAKER_06 58:14

What if you make love? Does it still pass?

SPEAKER_04 58:16

I think if you are in your date, Jane Austen novel and your pinkies touch as you make incredible eye contact and you've had this like love-hate relationship, I think that passes.

SPEAKER_05 58:26

I actually thought the ending for a second was gonna be we're making love and now we're okay. Okay for like one second.

SPEAKER_06 58:33

Because they made sweet love.

SPEAKER_05 58:35

Yeah, that's how they beat it. They're like actually true. But then I just realized he's an absolute garbage bag. I do just want to say the sisters and the friends, the girls here do it for me. The mom doesn't, but I did really enjoy them, and they were an important part of the story because we had such disgusting, gross men, even to like neighbors behind the way, behind the fence, all the men sucked here. It was really nice to have, especially the sister that was just so enjoyable.

SPEAKER_03 59:02

Yeah, to me, it seemed like they'd even have to put a lot of effort into that. It was just the relationship that they had. It wasn't like, oh, watch all these girls team up together. It was just a natural interaction that all three of them had.

SPEAKER_05 59:16

It was like everything else, it felt so real that it hurt a little. Like it felt like such a real neighborhood interaction that I couldn't stand it.

SPEAKER_04 59:24

Absolutely. And I think for me, the characters in this felt as strong as they needed to be. I think strong in terms of their performance, not that they were always like a strong character, right? There wasn't anyone in this movie that felt empty and useless. Paul being shitty had a point. Hugh being shitty had a point. Greg being shitty had a point. And I think Jay and her performance were the strongest of all because she is what the success of this movie hinges upon. You know what I mean? And and even the supporting cast rises to the occasion. I'm just thinking about like that entire run of her being chloroformed, then being dumped out on the street, and the way the friends like rally around her. You have all the neighbors out in their porches, and you have the cops coming in, and then you have the moms talking about it over over a table the next day. And there's even this moment of so much as felt and conveyed through glances, or just moments where nothing is said at all. And you have Jay like laying in bed or not eating or not drinking, and there's whispers of her downstairs, or she's staring at herself in the mirror, wondering whose body that is and what's wrong with her. This movie, it's it's so I think this is a great example of just a stellar cast the whole way through, regardless of how much I hate some of the characters.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:38

I can totally agree with that, but something about Yara left a little bad taste in my mouth. It was initially the fart, and then the way she ate a sandwich in the hospital really gross-like. I was like, ugh, she's not somebody I would be friends with.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:50

I didn't love it, especially in the hospital. I was like, what are you reading? Like, I think it was supposed to mean something, but it did not hit I she yeah, I could have done without her.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:00

Reading shit on your phone and you like don't care, but she doesn't get that you don't care and she keeps reading it.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:04

She didn't do a lot, but honestly, she was a person there. Every group of friends has like the week link that's just like, all right, that person's just here. She's eating. We're not there's no contribution from them.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:15

Okay, look, Yara has her issue, sure. We can all agree that Paul's the worst part of this movie, right?

SPEAKER_06 1:01:20

No. What? Because Paul being the worst part was the point. Okay, yeah, but still, he sucks. I present to you two alternative worst parts of this movie.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:28

Okay, great. Let's hear it.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:29

The first one, I think, is like the the big thing that most people take away is what the fuck was that final pool scene? Why did that plan not work? Does electricity not work? Was nothing in well, everything got unplugged, but then wasn't unplugged.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:41

Why did they even try? Why did they stick with it? Why did they like keep her in there? Why did they think shooting was gonna work when shooting didn't work the first time? Yeah, the pool scene is the worst part.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:48

Yeah, a lot of things made no damn sense about that.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:51

I kind of liked it.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:52

I like that it didn't make sense too. Yeah, it felt like uh okay, a bunch of fucking teenagers trying to come up with that idea and it was shitty.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:58

Did y'all like swim fan? Oh, I love swim fan. Yeah, that's why y'all liked it. Y'all are swim fan people.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:03

This just reminds me of very Scooby-Dooy, like very like jinx-y, but then also I love it because they set up the scene with I can't tell you who this is because it's her father and she doesn't want to scare her sister, which I think is a brilliant. That was the best part of that. So fucking good. The worst part was the ending though, when Paul and Jay were walking away, and I was like, I hope that's the entity following them and kills them both. It was. I was like, stop settling, which coming from a person who has previously settled, not right now.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:32

See, the worst part of this movie for me, it's gonna be a really weird one and hard to describe, but it's the method of transmitting the entity, the fact that they chose sex. How is that hard to describe?

SPEAKER_03 1:02:43

Oh, I love it. It's original.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:45

It really works, right? It adds all sorts of layers to the movie and especially meaning that people can take away from it that other methods wouldn't have had. But I also feel like if you're a surface-level viewer and you're watching this for easy entertainment, you're like, uh uh STI is lol.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:01

And as proof of that, I had watched a bit of the beginning of this movie and walked up to Mac and said, Are we really watching a movie where a killer is passed, like an STD, and like that's what we're doing? You get killed when you have sex with somebody.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:14

I definitely agree that that is an odd choice. I even put that on my notes, but for me it works. Uh, but the other thing I think could be our worst part is the fact that Hugh knew that this thing was following him and chose to go on a date to a movie theater. Was he really gonna sit there for two hours?

SPEAKER_05 1:03:32

Where he said no exit no one exit things. Yeah, that's so true. There's two exits in a movie theater.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:38

At that point, we didn't know the mechanics, but he did, and it makes no damn sense for him to be like, Yeah, let's go to a movie.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:43

So true. Was it a situation where he did so much running beforehand? Because it also seems like he was from like the next town over. So maybe he'd already done his lap, thinking I have some time to figure this out, and then all of a sudden, yellow dress girl is there much sooner than he anticipated.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:00

No, but he was definitely living in that house and like had it set up knowing that like he had the windows covered. He knew the entity was there looking for him. So he knew it. I feel like he knew it was nearby. I don't know. I think it was a misjudgment. I just feel like driving across country though is a really good, like a good plan. Like, why aren't we doing that?

SPEAKER_06 1:04:17

Fly. Take a plane, bitch.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:20

To like India. Like, I what's the and also we didn't even discuss a jet. Does the entity swim? Because I feel like we could live on a houseboat. I thought we were gonna go live on a boat.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:30

We had all these debates in the first time we did this episode, and apparently it's actually not that long. Like, because the entity doesn't need to breathe, doesn't need to do a number of things, and doesn't have to stop. You would think that it would take fucking years to get to you, but it can get to you within a few months if it's just walking in a straight line.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:48

Absolutely, but you just move every couple months. Like, that's that's realistic. We can make that happen. We work remote. I also thought Paul was gonna have sex with a girl in the corner at some point in this. Like when he was driving by and he was like staring at the girl. I was like, Are we gonna pass this to a hooker?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:00

He did. It didn't confirm whether or not uh he he hooked up with him, it showed that he considered it.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:05

We didn't see any stopping.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:07

We didn't see her fuck the guys on the boat either.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:09

I think they both did both.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:11

And somehow they didn't do enough. Okay, but it was still behind them at the end of the movie, so clearly it didn't work.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:16

Or was it? We don't know that it was left open to the inter open to the imagination, which I But this is how I interpret it. That's fair. Same. I did two the first time, but this time I saw the guy in the background that was like out of focus. I saw him like look at like a house, and I was like, oh, the entities pretty much never looked around. So maybe that's not them.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:34

So here's the question: Was anybody wearing red, or were there any red noticeable items during the last scene? Throughout the entire movie, there is a bit of red before it shows up and is gonna take you out. So somebody go rewatch the last scene and see if we can spot any red.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:53

The entire pool is filled with red.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:55

No, like the very last like walking bit. Oh.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:58

But they are both wearing white.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:59

But see, I think. I didn't think that they died there. I just think the entity was still following them. They're just walking slightly faster.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:04

Mac, that also reminds me because I that's something I noticed, or that's something I noticed as a result of what I had read going into this watch of about the color red. But the jump scare that got me and gets me every time is when Jay is in like the bathroom, just kind of like looking at her junk in the underwear, kind of just like, what am I gonna do? What's going on? And then that red ball hits the window and scares the shit out of me.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:24

Really? That's the jump scare. It is scary, but also the noise jump scares in this drove me mad, and I hated every single one of them. Every moment where it was like, just like, okay, stop, please.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:38

But would you rewatch it, Ryan?

SPEAKER_05 1:06:40

I wouldn't. It felt bad.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:43

Okay. Here's my theory. I said this the last time, and I think I can confirm it. I think you need to see it once to take it in, twice to understand the theme that like you're drawn to personally, like what really resonates with you, and then a third to like pick up on all the nuanced messages and details. I don't think I could do it again though. Agree. Like I this is now the third time I've seen this, and I I feel like it got better the second time, and I feel like there's a lot of things that I intentionally looked for to appreciate more of, but I think some things got worse. So I think I just want to like put it follows in a special box and no great fucking movie. I don't want it I don't want it to diminish anymore.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:21

I completely agree with that. I feel like I need to watch it one more time in the near future to just remember what I want to look for in this movie, but after that I'm good. To be clear, I can respect going back for the details.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:34

But you gotta have the feelings with it, and it's just too much.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:38

Having watched it, I think a total of three times now. Uh I don't want to watch it again anytime soon. It is one of my faves, but I would love to watch this again in like 20 years, which is kind of crazy to even think about like what are we doing in 20 years?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:50

I mean, I I do own it, so I could easily re-watch it. Uh I don't know that I want to soon, though.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:55

I don't know if Amazon is gonna be around in 20 years.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:58

That's true. They'll they'll be on the moon at that point.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:01

Yeah. Will we be here? Let's say perhaps you're someone who doesn't want to watch this again to get all those details. Let's see if there's anything that Mac can pack in in fact or fiction.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:10

Number one, the film was set to be shot in a town in Ontario, Canada, to save on budget until the director convinced producers that shooting in his home state of Michigan was essential to the feel of the film.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:21

This still looks like Canada. Fiction. Home state? Although did come from a dream. I'm gonna go fact here.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:28

I know the answer. It's fiction. They filmed it in Detroit because of tax breaks. Damn straight.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:33

It actually does feel like Detroit. I could get Detroit. Especially when they cross over into the city. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:40

It does have just a general, like, suburb vibe to it, though. So, like, I lived in suburbs, Georgia. It seems very similar to that. Number two, the director has stated that he got the idea for the third act of the movie from being tired of seeing teenagers cleverly coming up with ingenious plans that somehow take down unstoppable evil forces.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:59

Fact. I'll go fiction.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:01

I think I read that this is fact. He made the ending plan deliberately stupid.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:05

Okay, so what do you mean to say is we could not have gotten these kids to just bully the entity like those kids bullied Pennywise in chapter two?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:14

So I made up this explanation, but he did state that their plan was very stupid. He said, It's the stupidest plan ever. It's a kid movie plan. It's something that Scooby-Doo and the gang might think of, and that was sort of the point. As Hugh told her earlier in the film, you know, it's very slow, but it's not dumb. Number three, the theater Hugh and Jay went to is a real theater in Michigan where Evil Dead first premiered in 1981.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:38

Fact, because I'm O for O tonight. I'll go fiction.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:43

So the sad thing is I remember reading this, but because it had a historical date in it, I skipped right over it. So I'm gonna guess fiction.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:50

This is a fact. And it's a it's a it's an historic theater. Uh it even has a Worlester organ in it, so that's pretty cool. And number four, during an interview, the director commented that had the teens used condoms, they would have avoided passing the entity on to others.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:04

Fiction. No way, I don't believe it. That would be so corny if that was it if that was introduced, that'd be a hard hack. No glove, no sex demon.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:14

I hate that, and I don't think this director would have said that, so I'm gonna say fiction. It is a fiction. He said condoms don't matter, nor did with whom you were doing the nasty. And uh he didn't say it, but I'm going to extrapolate that it doesn't matter in which method you're doing the nasty either.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:31

I don't think we need to speculate any further.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:33

I think we're good. Uh, that's been fact or fiction.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:36

Well, there you have it, folks. Speculate no more because it follows has earned yet again a universal slash. Now we've had a lot to talk about here, but it doesn't end here by any means. We want to know what you think. We want to hear your sex demon theories. Keep in mind there are a number of ways you can reach us, starting with our website, hackerslash.live, or on our social media accounts on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:56

And if you're as stoked as we are that this didn't turn out to be an STD that kills people movie, please let us know about it. You can reach out to our Hackerslash Hotline by leaving us a voicemail at 757-606-0128 or visit hackerslash.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:11

Or if you realize that Max Word of the Day was vibe, you can send an email to feedback at hackerslash.com.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:16

I didn't realize. But if you've enjoyed listening to this episode, consider becoming one of our patrons like our new friend Nathan. You can visit patreon.com slash hacker slash to earn cool perks for as low as one dollar a month.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:27

We'll see you next time, folks, and remember, it could look like someone you know, or it could be a stranger in a crowd. Bye.