208: The Ring (2002)

SPEAKER_07 0:04

Well, she jumps down their throat, obviously.

SPEAKER_04 0:06

Gaging.

SPEAKER_00 0:12

Greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hack or Slash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. Let's talk about these pictures you make. If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are horror movie review podcasts dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack. A total joke, a waste of time, or a splash.

SPEAKER_03 0:29

Totally killer, pun intended.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, we're rating these movies with a perspective we've gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast. This week I'm joined by the Superfly Space Guy Mac.

SPEAKER_03 0:44

Your daddy loves you.

SPEAKER_00 0:45

The gore lover Alexis. Hey everyone. The cowardly creeper Ryan. Hiya. And the Scream Queen Paris.

SPEAKER_05 0:52

Well, well, well.

unknown 0:54

Why?

SPEAKER_05 0:55

Because she's in a well?

SPEAKER_00 0:56

This week we're looking back on a 2002 American film that sought to remake its Japanese predecessor, and in doing so, found success as the highest grossing remake in history until it was dethroned by Stephen King's It in 2017. Before we pop in that VHS though, we have some follow-up.

SPEAKER_05 1:12

Let's follow up on a movie. Alright, y'all, we recently reviewed the film It Follows. And we wanted to follow up on that film. So we asked our listeners what they thought. And when I tell you these results are kind of gaggy, only 5% of our voters gave it a hack, and 95% slashed that movie.

SPEAKER_00 1:32

That feels accurate. You people. You people. What do you mean, you people? Who people?

SPEAKER_05 1:38

Us people. We have a couple comments from our listeners. Jasmine, one of our patrons, said, I love this movie. The ambiguity of the time period and the different tech all made it feel like a really bad nightmare, and I was unsettled during the whole film. Hard slash. Also, you all had me dying with the B-Sides outtakes.

SPEAKER_00 1:55

Oh my gosh. That was, I think, the logistics of car sex that we were talking about. Absolutely hilarious. Thank God only our patrons will ever hear that.

SPEAKER_05 2:02

Yeah, B-Sides, for those who don't know, are one of your many patron perks. If you are one of our patrons, you get to listen to the outtakes, the things that don't make it into the episodes, as well as just like fun banter at the end of every episode.

SPEAKER_00 2:13

Yeah, there's at least 10-ish minutes, at least added to every episode. Most of the time it's like 15, 20 minutes. I think our longest has been like 30 minutes of extra content.

SPEAKER_05 2:23

And it's also like usually my favorite part because it's the funniest. We have another comment from one of our patrons, Amber, who said, I have to admit, I watched this when it first came out, and I remember being disappointed. I gave this another watch a few months ago and saw it in a completely different light. It's one of those films that just lingers on the mind hours after it's over. This one definitely deserved a universal slash. And we have another comment from one of our listeners, Gregor, on Twitter, who said this absolute hack. One of the worst horror movies ever made. The meandering pace, the poor acting, the terrible choices the characters make, the weak payoff at the end, and the stupid clamshell phone thing.

SPEAKER_00 2:58

Wow, what passion. Greg was also trying to tip the scales of the vote when the nominations for Slasher Pick actually came out. He was in there hot and heavy saying, It falls is the worst movie ever made.

SPEAKER_05 3:11

There's nothing if not passion behind this hack.

SPEAKER_00 3:13

It's certainly not the worst.

SPEAKER_05 3:15

Also, I love that like the clamshell is the thing that made him the most mad. That little clamshell phone. Finally, we'd like to thank one of our newest patrons, Diana. Possibly Diana. I work with a Diana, so I will not assume. Diana or Diana, thank you so much for joining our Patreon family. We're so happy to have you. I would love it if you would call into the Hackerslash Hotline or leave us one of your hot takes on maybe the movie we're reviewing tonight, and we can feature it on an upcoming episode. And that is our follow-up.

SPEAKER_00 3:42

Well, more than 20 years ago, director Gore Verbinski was provided the VHS copy of a 1998 Japanese film that explored a cursed tape, the deaths that surrounded it, and the relentless pursuit of uncovering its mysterious origins. Verbinsky was given the copy by producer Walter F. Parker's, who, immediately after seeing the original Japanese film at its Los Angeles premiere, acted swiftly to option the rights to remake it that very night. And so began the birth of a film that had the responsibility to live up to not only a popular predecessor, but also an original source novel from 1991. Verbinsky's film ultimately differentiates itself with slight deviations and added material, but as a whole, proved to be so successful. It sparked a wave of early 2000s American remakes of other Japanese horror films. This week we're talking about The Ring. Who's seen this one before?

SPEAKER_03 4:30

I have. I saw it the correct way, which is rented back in the day.

SPEAKER_01 4:34

I believe I did as well, because I was too young to be watching this in theaters, but there was so much, you know, hype around this, so I definitely had to have watched it at Blockbuster Rental. Not to ask a dumb question here. Did this come out in theaters?

SPEAKER_07 4:48

Because it really just needs to be on VHS. Okay, well, I definitely didn't see it in theaters. I saw it at some point somewhere in life. I've seen it several times, I think.

SPEAKER_05 4:58

I saw this movie when I was 11. My mom rented it at Blockbuster, and we watched it on VHS.

SPEAKER_00 5:03

You know, I saw this movie when it came out in theaters, and we didn't bother to rent it because it wasn't something that left a particularly good taste in my mouth. But I remember this sparking that wave, and I thought every movie that came after it, I'm like, okay, great. This is just another The Ring. Fantastic. I hadn't seen, though, the original film that it's based off of, which is based off itself a novel. I hadn't seen the original up until like two days ago. I started it, it started feeling really, really good. I'm excited to finish it. I haven't finished it quite yet. But despite not leaving a great taste in my mouth when I was a kid, I really walked into this thinking, all right, new year, new me. That was 20 years ago. What did 12-year-old Chris know about movies, besides that Halloween was the greatest thing on earth? Maybe this will be a lot better, right? Naomi Watts, I'm sure she's fantastic. I don't remember the performances being particularly bad in this. So I really walked into it with an open mind, expecting to have a better experience this time around, especially with a new ring chapter that just dropped on Dead by Daylight.

SPEAKER_05 6:05

Chris, I have absolutely been playing this ring chapter, and I don't know if it added my to my appreciation of this watch. It's very fun to kill people as the ring bitch and just like kind of zap through TVs and scare people to death. Now, I will say, going into this, this is a movie that I remember fondly, and I was kind of worried. I was like, oh god, is this movie gonna hold up? It's very it takes place at a very specific time in technological advancement, and I was like, ooh, I I was concerned.

SPEAKER_07 6:36

I was also concerned. I've always said The Ring is one of those movies that I saw at like the perfect time in my maturity where it was horrifying. I didn't walk into a room that had a TV turned off or God forbid on white noise for like years. I I will not be in the room with TVs that are not on. Today I'm like okay about it, but it took so long. This movie stuck with me so much, and I was like, I don't know how this could be good still. From 2002, it's 20 years old. My expectations were so low today.

SPEAKER_01 7:09

I don't know if I would say mine were low, but I did watch this movie at a peak time, and like you, Ryan, I was scared shitless. I still don't think I've actually seen the whole cursed film because I just refused to watch it because somehow I think Samara's gonna come get me. But either way, I wasn't sure about my expectations. I know there's the spouse from this, and there's a lot of movies that are just like this, so I couldn't even remember what this was about. So I just kind of had an open mind. I was like, you know, I'm just gonna go into this. Hopefully it's entertaining. And that was my expectation. I wouldn't say it was low, I'd say I had no expectations, which is better than having a lot.

SPEAKER_03 7:47

I had pretty mixed expectations because I remember seeing this at least a few times, like one rental and then later just like on TV or something or on streaming, you know, when I was bored. But um I just didn't know what to expect. I didn't know if I was gonna enjoy this or if I was gonna realize that any positive memory was based on nostalgia. I just didn't know like what I was gonna be in for. Um, it's just so like it's so hard to remember. Like, did I really like it or did I not really like it? And then as a 30-something year old, am I going to like it now? I I'll be honest, I just did not know what to expect.

SPEAKER_00 8:24

I think it's fair for this to be like so far back in the day, and I I don't know about you, Mac, but I I saw this once when I was a kid, and I distinctly remember the feeling that it left me with. So this isn't something that I feel like is tied to nostalgia for me. It, if anything, kicked off a wave of unpleasant feelings. Like I remember being so bored watching The Grudge. I remember being so bored watching One Miss Call. I remember being so bored watching White Noise with Michael Keaton. It was just this entire period in cinema where I'm like, why are we trying to remake these movies when we suck at it? You know what I mean? And something that I've just never really contended well with. And I will admit that like watching it this time, I don't know that I had the complete 180 that I hoped I would, but I found things that I just could not have possibly appreciated as a 12-year-old. Like there's some certain decisions that are made about the cinematography. There are certain, you know, moments of like tension and atmosphere that I actually really enjoyed. And it was like, all right, cool. I see what I see what some of the fuss was about. All right, I'm not mad at this. But again, I do think playing Dead by Daylight and exploring some of the origins of the original source material made it feel more entertaining versus this just be a movie that stands on its own two legs.

SPEAKER_05 9:38

So, Chris, I was recently streaming Dead by Daylight, and I was talking to my viewers about what I remembered from The Ring, and I did like a little synopsis, and I actually remembered almost all of it, but there were a few things that I did not remember at all, and I think it's because of how old I was when I watched them. Like there's certain nuances from our characters and like certain elements of different relationships that I don't think you can really appreciate when you're 11 years old. And I kind of watched a different version of this movie because I'm 31 watching it now, and that is not something that I was particularly expecting.

SPEAKER_01 10:12

I feel like I'm relating to everyone tonight because that's exactly how I felt. I wasn't paying attention necessarily to the movie and the general idea of what was going on, but mostly of the side things and kind of all of the relationships in the movie rather than the actual story. Because that I'm gonna be quite honest, was boring to me.

SPEAKER_07 10:33

I'm so surprised that y'all were just like remembered this so much that you hardly needed to watch. I felt like I was watching the ring for almost the first time. If you asked me last week, you know, what do you remember from the ring? I'm like, dude, I like obviously we know it's you know the whole seven days, you know, they're gonna die, whatever. Cool. We know what happens. And then I started watching the movie, and I was like, you know, this ring ain't ringing like I thought it did, because it just it was a completely different experience for me. I don't know, I hardly remember the characters. It was like I recognized them, like I knew I had met them one time, but I couldn't figure out where I knew them from. That's how I felt watching this movie. It was so strange for me. It it literally feels like I didn't watch the ring.

SPEAKER_03 11:16

I had the exact opposite reaction. When watching this, I was like, holy crap, I remember so much about this movie, and I didn't think that I would. And to the point where I was like remembering certain scenes very well, and I wasn't sure exactly when they were gonna show up. So I was like waiting for my distinct memory of this movie to like align with the movie itself. And and it's crazy. Like watching this, I wasn't bored, I still found it very interesting, but I remembered so much, like scene by scene almost. I think the thing that most surprised me, the thing that I did not remember, was just how damn green it was.

SPEAKER_00 11:49

I know.

SPEAKER_03 11:50

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 11:51

Early 2000s cinema, and again, at least this uh film, they chose to do it for a very specific reason that I think makes sense. But this is again a time capsule memory of early 2000s green-tinted films. It was this and any fucking movie that came after it.

SPEAKER_07 12:08

See, I actually have to disagree because when we usually talk about that in like the the gross early 2000s like grunge, I didn't see that in the ring. I mean, obviously in some places it is, but to me, the ring is more blue than green, and I know that sounds like a dumb distinction.

SPEAKER_05 12:23

I totally agree.

SPEAKER_07 12:24

It specifically stood out to me, and I was like, oh, this is like before everything was just gross to be gross, because there is a portion like slightly later, right after this. I don't know, maybe 2005, roughly, where everything was just disgusting. And we this movie is not just disgusting.

SPEAKER_00 12:41

I think it started in like 2003 and then it like hit its peak in 2005, and then it tried it started to chill around 2009 or so.

SPEAKER_07 12:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:48

But you're not wrong, there is quite a bit that is tinted blue, there is quite a bit that's tinted green, and it's to give you this really uneasy, like nauseating feeling, which again, it's intentional and it's motivated. So I get it. I'm not sure if I like it, but I get it. And this seems like a reasonable uh decision to make. Whereas I feel most other movies that I watch, they don't have the mild restraint that this one does. Because in this one, you have better color balancing the closer you get to the resolution of the story. Once we have our main character getting down to the bottom of things and really uncovering so much about, you know, this tape that she has found, you see that the blue and the green fades away and you get like a more natural looking image, which I absolutely love. That is restraint and that is choice and control. Other movies of this era just went heavy-handed, yo, fuck it, let's put some green in there. Make it all spooky. And it was just awful.

SPEAKER_05 13:43

Chris, I'm totally with you and Ryan. I absolutely agree. The movie is definitely more blue than green. I don't know if this is like another the dress moment, but it was giving blue to me. But Chris, like you're saying, I definitely wrote in my notes that this movie felt like it used a very deliberate color grading, but not in such a way that was like so obnoxious and like unable, like in Saw where everything's like literally two different shades of green. Uh, this one I felt like was maybe like 15% very of the times, and I think that's that restraint that you're talking about. Now, with that in mind, I think something that surprised me the most was just how impactful this movie was. I don't think I was able to appreciate that at the time. I remember it being like everyone was talking about the ring, but I didn't realize how much it influenced horror that came after it. Specifically the opening scene. I the moment it started, I was like, oh yeah, I remember this scene very well. And it's been referenced so many times. It's referenced in the Scream franchise, obviously it's referenced in the scary movies multiple times, but I think it was just such a simple, classic yet modern way to do an opening scene for a horror movie. And there was something about this movie that just felt like very classic, and I was like, that's interesting that I was able to be here for a movie when it was new, and now I'm watching it 20 years later, and I'm like, oh, this feels like a horror classic.

SPEAKER_07 14:59

I totally agree because I didn't expect that. And when I was watching this, I was so surprised that it didn't feel old and dated, and it to me it didn't feel cliche, it didn't feel like what y'all would try to say is camp. I was just so blown away by how classic it felt when I was watching. There's almost nothing campy about this movie.

SPEAKER_05 15:22

This movie is absolutely void of camp.

SPEAKER_07 15:24

No, I know it's not, but a lot of times I would expect a movie like this to be, you know, we get here and you guys are like, oh, it's bad because it's campy.

SPEAKER_05 15:32

Like it ages into camp.

SPEAKER_07 15:34

It ages into camp. I totally thought this would age into camp, exactly. And it didn't. And I was I I was again, the word classic is a very good word here. It it's surprisingly classic.

SPEAKER_01 15:43

I don't know if I'd say classic, but it has some sort of appeal, and I'm 100% sure is part of the cinematography. That this is 20 years later and it still looks this fresh and clean. And even as Mac is sending some still images, I'm like, wow, that really surprised me. But I also had one scene in particular that surprised me, which I don't even recall watching this the first time, but uh I can't wait to explore it in the second half because probably one of my favorite scenes.

SPEAKER_00 16:12

Yeah, I think one of the biggest surprises I had was remembering that fucking Adam Brody is in this movie. What the hell? And his prepubescent voice, like what the fuck? My biggest surprise is finding out that the little boy is now a lawyer. Oh wow, that is a great surprise. Okay, but that was a pleasant surprise. That little boy, Aiden, I didn't remember much about him, but I was so refreshed by his performance in this movie. Yes. Because damn, he perfectly captures little boy who's a grown-ass man. A, I think it's weird to call your mom by their first name. I know Paris does it. That seems like a special bond thing. I just cannot imagine that culturally in my family. But the way that he says it with this, we're roommates, basically, and they were roommates, uh, you know, having her her dress lay down on the couch while he's tying his own fucking tie. Like, who is this kid? Give him an Oscar. He deserved one for this movie. But even within those pleasant notes that I found, I still found myself a little bit bummed out and bored in some places. I mean, like, I get the story more now. I get it, but it didn't do a whole lot to make me feel like really gripped by its tension. You know what I mean? It just felt like a flat note all throughout.

SPEAKER_05 17:27

Okay, Chris, but I have to say, growing up as a only child of a single mom who had a lot of career ambition, this wasn't not my childhood, this relationship.

SPEAKER_00 17:38

I bet, I bet.

SPEAKER_05 17:39

I'm like, Gwen, I laid your black dress out on the couch. I tried to steam iron it, but I'm only 10, so it didn't quite get out all the wrinkles.

SPEAKER_07 17:46

I was never quite this bold when I was young to like be calling my mom by her name or anything. But by the time I was like, I don't know, maybe 12 or 13, I was absolutely fully self-sufficient. And my mom was just like at work till 10 p.m. daily. And I was just like, all right, we're just vibing, man.

SPEAKER_05 18:02

Matilda vibes.

SPEAKER_00 18:03

I do think that one of the things that really stood out even more to me was why everyone is so fucking scared about this movie in the first place. Now, again, it felt flat to me, all one note. I didn't find it scary, but there are some moments in here I'm like, oh, okay, so this is what everyone was talking about. I see where maybe I could see a 12-year-old Alexis jumping at this. You know what I mean? I don't know if 32-year-old Alexis still jumps at it, but I see what it is now.

SPEAKER_01 18:29

Oh, 32-year-old Alexis is not jumping, maybe yawning, but definitely doesn't have the same effect like it did. I mean, it was so scary when I was younger. And I remember people playing pranks when I was younger. Oh my gosh, did you see like, you know, this was a thing back then. It was part of the culture, I feel like, when I was a kid. And now it's just, yeah, it's not scary at all at this point. Nothing is terrifying, nothing even looks scary in this movie.

SPEAKER_03 18:55

I I think this film for me, it it needs the right context. So go back in time, be a 12 to 15 year old, rent this movie, but none of your friends want to hang out with you that night, so you have to watch it alone in the dark. Maybe then the idea of like an evil chain letter would be scary to you. Um, but I agree. In your in your 30s, in this day and age, this is as far from scary as it gets.

SPEAKER_07 19:19

So I'm gonna disagree. I think y'all weren't paying enough attention. You were an invested like me person who thinks they were watching this for the first time. I found this movie to be creepy. Now, here's the difference though. I wasn't scared about the whole like TV video thing. I think we've been like completely tainted by that because there have been one billion things that are like, if you don't do this, you'll die. If you don't whatever, show this to 12,000 people, you'll die. All that stuff. Like, we're totally desensitized to that, especially since the internet took it away from VHS. So that part isn't scary anymore. But like the faces in this movie didn't scare you. The there wasn't a couple little jump scares that got you. I mean, Mac, I don't expect you to be scared, but I wouldn't say this is not scary. Again, this holds up way better than I expected. I thought there would be nothing to be afraid of in this movie.

SPEAKER_00 20:10

No, it didn't hold up for me though. I mean, like, I again I see where it is because I think a lot of this starts the jump scare culture. But what really I think removed it from me is especially there's a moment towards, I would say, the third act of the film, not like the end end or even the pre-end, but as we start kind of getting in that direction, there's a bit of makeup work that did not stick the landing for me. It felt really cheap, and I'm like, wow, you just kind of ruined a whole really great effect with like a shitty appearance. Good job, guys.

SPEAKER_01 20:41

What I think is when you do see the images from watching Ringoo, that had mystery behind it. I mean, you saw something, but it was just the mystery of everything going on in that movie. This one, it just shows you, and I'm like, you gotta show me, you gotta show me something terrifying. And maybe it was terrifying at, you know, 13, but definitely not now. It loses a mystery.

SPEAKER_05 21:02

I can't say that the mystery was lost for me this time, Alexis, because I think I felt that more than anything in this movie. I remember this being so terrifying when I was 11, so much so that I remember making some of my friends watch it just in case. And maybe when this movie ended, I YouTube's the full ring video and dropped it in the group chat so that y'all would have to watch it just in case. I think copying and pasting the link also counts in today's times.

SPEAKER_01 21:27

Wow. So you were trying to get us killed? Is that what I'm hearing?

SPEAKER_05 21:30

I was simply passing the buck.

SPEAKER_00 21:32

No, it's like it follows, just keep passing it along, you know?

SPEAKER_05 21:34

Very much that, very much that.

SPEAKER_00 21:36

Chainmail. Rude. So rude.

SPEAKER_05 21:38

I'm just covering my bases, like any responsible Capricorn. But I think the fear and like the visceral emotional reaction that I had this time around wasn't that of like a scary child that was like, oh my god, she's gonna come out of the TV and get me. But it was more so like of a, I don't know, maybe like I think maybe I identified more with like the parent element of it all this time. Around where I was just kind of like really tense and unsettled as this was unwinding. And I was just kind of like, ugh, I'm tired. I'm emotionally drained from this. I felt like much more heavy emotional burden vibes from this than I ever did as a wee lad.

SPEAKER_00 22:15

And the emotional burden, I think, is something that this movie does really well. I think it does it better than I think the other wave of American remakes of Asian horror films that we got immediately following this. For me, obviously, I think when you look at American cinema, this stands out as a wholly original vibe, right? But I will say that watching the 1998 film that this is a remake of, I'm like, oh, there are some things that that film just did better. And I get like this is a really commercially successful remake, but I don't know where I'd stand. I think obviously within the American cinema landscape, it's it's original. But after watching, I think I got about like halfway through the original from 1998, and I just don't know where I stand yet on giving this originality.

SPEAKER_01 23:01

I completely agree with you, Chris, because I definitely watched that version before I watched this one, and I was like, oh wow, I'm watching the same movie, just Americanized. But there's some tropes in this one that I'm like a hundred percent over. And I don't know if it's because I watched this after I watched a million other movies where you touch someone and you understand what the hell they went through. I'm freaking over that. 100% over that.

SPEAKER_00 23:26

Yeah, but I think part of that, right, Alexis, when we think about like the same movie but Americanized, last week we just did Wreck and we talked about how you know there are some differences between Wreck from 2007 from Spain and it's American Cousin in 2008, Quarantine, and how largely it's shot for shot, like a remake, but it misses some of the soul in the movie and some elements like while there's obviously more Hollywood, there's a lot more glitz, there's a lot more glamour, while it's a lot fancier in some regards, it kind of misses the emotional points in some ways. Again, I think I think this movie does a better job than Quarantine did remaking Wreck, but I think that's part of what what that is, Alexis.

SPEAKER_03 24:07

I I'm torn on giving it originality points because we know it's not wholly original, but the moment that it existed in for a brief, for brief, brief, brief second, it was it was a whole thing, it was a whole vibe in the US. And I think you have to give it some some points for that. So it's getting like half points for how original it felt in the in the moment, but then we're taking away points because we know we know that it's not technically original.

SPEAKER_07 24:30

Uh quarter portion. Yeah, I think it's obviously really, really, really difficult to talk about the originality of the ring in 2022. But when it came out, it was for me, for sure.

SPEAKER_05 24:41

I think you're totally right, Ryan. At the time, it felt like it'd never been done before, even though actually I don't I did not know that this was a remake until a couple years after I'd seen it. But I think what this movie did really well as far as originality goes is it came at really like the tail end of VHS tape culture and probably at like the peak of chain letter culture. So in a way, it was sort of a very like meta horror movie, especially when you get to certain elements like the ending, where it kind of expands the the grasp of this film and like the reach of it in a conceptual sort of way. And I think that's one of the more memorable things from this movie was the ending, specifically the climax. Because I remember after the climax, I was like, oh yeah, and that's the movie. And then it kept going, and I was like, oh yeah, no, wait, that's the movie. And I forgot about that. And then I the moment it kept going, there was like a couple shots where I was like, oh, I remember this very vividly. But in my mind, it it ended at the climax and not at the actual ending.

SPEAKER_00 25:39

Yeah, I think that's a great point to make, Paris. I think the best part of this movie is its ending, and not in the way that I think I've felt about some movies where it's like, oh, I'm just so fucking glad it's over. Geez, count me out. I'm done with it. But this movie really just sums up the I think that perfect blend, like you said, of chainmail culture, VHS culture. But then it it it was like the predecessor of meme culture online and just sharing memes all around. You know what I mean? It's uh it's it's something that I think the source material still lasts and it still you has an impact decades later, but I think the ending was perfectly executed.

SPEAKER_03 26:18

I agree on that. I think the ending really suits the movie. I I initially, when we get to the climax, like Paris mentioned, like you feel good about it, but because you feel good about it, you know it's not the end, or at least like it shouldn't be the end. And so when you actually make it through that and you get to the end of the movie, like there's just a feeling of like satisfaction, I think.

SPEAKER_07 26:38

I think for me, I enjoy the ending of the movie, but the details of the story that we get towards the end get a little bit like questionable for me. I didn't love the the climax portion of the story. The end though, like at the very like all the last bits that we get are are lovely.

SPEAKER_01 26:58

Y'all are loving the ending. I mean, I thought it was okay, and I think I'm just seeing this from years removed, so I'll give it credit because it has some iconicness and there's some things out there that I'm like, oh wow. And for what I was waiting for at the end, I thought this happened earlier in the movie. So I really enjoy the last sequence that happens.

SPEAKER_00 27:19

You know, that final sequence is something to behold, Alexis, and I think part of the impact of that ending is why this movie stands out, and you think, oh, this must have happened earlier because that's what it's remembered for. Not in the same way that I think quarantine uh is remembered for its ending because it's the fucking cover of the poster. You know what I mean? It's a different kind of hit. But we've obviously discussed a lot here, and I think there's some room here to play with our ratings, but let's go ahead and make our way there. Now, Alexis, how many people died in this movie? We had five forgettable deaths in this movie.

SPEAKER_07 27:53

And what about the animal report? Yeah, the animal report, not good this week. You might not even remember that it's not good, but let me just warn you now, if you haven't seen this in a long time, it's like real rough. It's terrible, I'd say. I wasn't expecting it. Yeah, it's quite bad. I remembered it once it was happening, and I was like yelling at the television, because why?

SPEAKER_05 28:13

PETA would say nay.

SPEAKER_00 28:14

Well, let's go ahead and get into our ratings then. The ring in 2002. Was it a hack or a slash? Before Alexis gets a chance to hack this movie.

SPEAKER_07 28:24

I am gonna slash this. I think this movie stood up to the test of time in a way that I would have never expected for The Ring. 20 years old. I turned this on first and foremost, not for nothing. Totally thought I was watching a new movie, okay? Maybe that made me have a more fond view of it. I don't know. I really, really enjoyed watching this movie. I think the cinematography stands up incredibly. It doesn't feel like you're watching an old 20-year-old movie. And the story kept me interested. Even though I knew it would happen, I was still invested. The characters are lovely. I mean, it's not a perfect movie, of course, and it's it's cliche now. Like we've seen a billion things that do what the ring did. But the ring is iconic, and for it to live up to itself the way that it does is honestly really impressive to me. Because again, this is like one of the scariest movies that I saw at a particular time in life. And I never thought it would like live up to anything. I thought it would be horrible. I was thinking there's absolutely no way the ring is a good movie 20 years later. And honestly, it's quite good.

SPEAKER_01 29:30

All right, so I'm gonna go next because I feel like I can be sweet in this. I agree. Time has done this movie justice, as in the cinematography still stands. You know, the acting is great, but I don't know, the gore is lacking, the story is boring, and the psychological games and the you know, the who done it in the investigation. I've just seen that all so much. So for me, that part has not stood the test of time. And honestly, I fell asleep three times watching this. I'm so sorry. Um, I'm gonna have to give this a hack.

SPEAKER_05 30:08

Three times?

SPEAKER_01 30:09

Yes, I had to restart this three times. Also, I've been on Muscle Relaxers because of my back, so possibly that might be a reason. But it just didn't get me excited. It wasn't interesting watching this, and I've only seen this. This is my second time.

SPEAKER_07 30:21

I will just say, I'm like a thriller girl, and and this goes more towards thriller these days.

SPEAKER_01 30:28

And that might be why. Oh yeah, my boyfriend would love this, and I'm just like, you know, I've seen this, it bores me.

SPEAKER_03 30:34

Well, I'm gonna give this a slash, and I think part of it is like the context of when it came out, you know. It's for me, it's not nostalgia. It's not like I think about this movie in fond terms, but I think of like the cultural impact that it that it had was pretty big. Um, but I also think the way that it interested a lot of people in horror at the time who were otherwise just interested in blockbuster action movies was also really cool. It like rekindled that 80s feel where it was like cool to go see horror movies. At this point, it would be in your own house uh instead of going to the movie theater because you could rent, right? But I think now there are probably people who are into horror because of this movie that wouldn't have been had it not come out at the time that it did. So pretty impactful there. But as a movie in general, I found it to be moderately entertaining. It's a lot slower than I would have hoped for. Um that runtime, you really, really, really feel it. And I think it could have been about 30 minutes shorter. I would have been really happy with that. But what what can you ask for there?

SPEAKER_01 31:25

Did you watch it with commercials? Because that made this so long. No.

SPEAKER_03 31:29

Uh no, I did not watch it with commercials. I watched it streaming at Paramount Plus, I think is where I found it. So yeah, I I think, yeah, while it felt long and it was slow, I'm down for slow, so I'm okay with that. Long, not such a huge fan of, but I watched it in the middle of the day, you know, bright light outside, middle of the afternoon. I didn't feel like I wasted my time doing it. And sometimes that's what you you get with the movies. You're like, man, I could have done so much, so much else, like with my afternoon. But no, it wasn't bad. It was just generally like a pretty good watch.

SPEAKER_07 31:55

The ring is famously like a slow, a slow ride. So you we had you had to go in expecting that. It was famous for that. Yeah, it's like a quiet, slow movie.

SPEAKER_05 32:06

So Ryan and I think came to this episode from the same place where we were really remembering this movie fondly, but it was not likely to hold up or stand the test of time. And specifically, I remember liking this movie so much because it was absolutely terrifying, and it did not deliver for me on that at all this time around. But what it did deliver on was story, was characters, was a level of depth that I didn't know existed in the ring that I don't think I could have ever appreciated before being a 30-year-old. In watching it this time around, I appreciated it for so many of those more nuanced, more mature themes that I was really surprised even existed in this movie. I was expecting it to just either be like total flop or the jump scares would still get me. And I don't even think this movie is particularly jump scare heavy. There definitely are some moments, but I feel like overall this movie is technically sound. The story had me intrigued the whole way through. The mystery unravels in a really nice uh way. There's really great pacing here. The characters, specifically our main character, Naomi Watts, as Rachel, she goes through a real developmental arc where you can see like a beginning, middle, and end, and you can kind of track her progression through all of this, and then you kind of see where she ends. And I just think overall, this movie is in some ways a horror classic. And I feel really grateful to have seen that classic when it originally came out and was like a a really big like cultural moment. But now to look at it in hindsight and be like, oh, this is why I'm into horror. This was definitely had a big impact on my horror tastes. And I'm so surprised in a pleasant way that this movie has stood up for me the way it has. So it's definitely a slash tonight.

SPEAKER_07 33:52

I totally agree, Paris. I feel so lucky that I experienced that moment because I missed so many of them.

SPEAKER_05 33:59

We do, yeah. It's like maybe Nightmare on Elm Street was great in the 70s or 80s. Who knows?

SPEAKER_00 34:04

I mean it was, but stop. Well, I think we've shared some really great perspectives so far. And look, it's you know not a secret that I came into this with super low expectations, even with trying to keep an open mind. This movie is one that I really disliked when I watched it as a kid because it bored me. And I think watching it now with a 32-year-old lens, it really helped me to see some of the things that I appreciate cinematically of it. I think there's a lot here in Naomi Watts in Our Boy Who Plays Aiden is absolutely a fantastic performance. And I think experiencing this in a way that is, I start out disliking it. I see how it becomes a cultural icon and like kind of like a phenomenon, and then I'm watching it again to say, what was the big deal about? I think it actually really helped me appreciate it in a really cool way. I mean, there's a moment where I even look back on the gore in this movie, I'm like, oh man, her face was fucked. And there are a lot of little surprises in here that are baked in as well. So I actually think this movie's really impressive. But honestly, at the end of the day, it still sums up with this line in my notes. This isn't as bad as I remember, but I am bored. And I just can't get over the boredom that I feel. Objectively, there's some things in this movie that are great, but it's kind of like how The Bobaduck is not my cup of tea. Logistically, it's a great movie. Technically, amazing movie, not my cup of tea. So for that, the ring is a hack for me.

SPEAKER_01 35:31

Oh, I'm sweating over here. I was like, I hate being the only one, but I realize sometimes I am the only one.

SPEAKER_00 35:38

And with that, the ring from 2002 has earned three slashes and two hacks that you probably weren't expecting. Go ahead and check it out. It's available for purchase or rent. But when you do, join us in the second half so we can break down the curse together. We'll see you in a bit.

SPEAKER_05 36:01

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SPEAKER_02 36:53

Hey Hackerslash, it's Tony.

SPEAKER_06 36:55

And Lila.

SPEAKER_02 36:56

Uh, we just finished watching the ring and we're gonna do something interesting. We're both gonna rate it at the exact same time. Three, two, one, slash. Perfect. Lila, what did you like about the ring?

SPEAKER_06 37:07

I liked how near the end she found Samara in the well and thought it was all done and over with, but then we find out that Noah has died, and she finally realizes it's never gonna be over.

SPEAKER_02 37:19

It's a dark ending. I like it. Yeah, it's the music that did it for me. It's the the unsettling images and whatnot, and you know, it's just as scary as it was when I saw it before, and it's been almost a decade, but it's definitely a slash for me. Not gory, so I don't know if Alach is gonna like it, but what what do you think Ryan's gonna feel about the animal report?

SPEAKER_06 37:38

Um the animal report.

SPEAKER_02 37:40

Not good.

SPEAKER_06 37:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:41

No, but altogether a slash. Thank you guys.

SPEAKER_06 37:45

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 37:46

I'm obsessed.

SPEAKER_01 37:47

That's the cutest thing I've ever heard. That was so adorable. I'm like tearing up over here.

SPEAKER_00 37:51

Okay, well, we're on the record as having five audible slashes on the ring from 2002. Work. We have talked about quite a bit in this movie, but obviously there is some grotesque imagery in here, and maybe there's a little bit of a lack of it. But Alexis, what's our gore score for this movie?

SPEAKER_01 38:06

I said low, and I know people are gonna give me shit for it, but you know, I mean, there is some images, but to me, I'm like, they're funny, they're not gross, they're not gory, they're they're nothing.

SPEAKER_03 38:18

So, like a nail through a finger, that's hilarious to you?

SPEAKER_01 38:21

All right, that's uh you know what? It's so sporadic in this movie, I forgot, and also I was bored, so I tuned all of that out. Yeah, I mean, the part where there are the worms, and I guess I'm gonna talk about this later, one of my favorite parts, but in that visual when you have the worms that turn into the bodies, so scary. Like to me, that was like gross, and you do have a finger through the nail, but I feel like you just don't see it enough for it to be like something other than medium or high.

SPEAKER_03 38:51

Interesting, because I feel like I had a different take as someone who was not on Flexoril when I watched this.

SPEAKER_01 38:55

Oh, you're funny. You're so funny. Drugs make everything boring. No, just FYI. Wow. Well, I would love to hear without Flexoril what it what it's like for you. What is this experience watching it?

SPEAKER_03 39:10

It's a mild salsa. It's not high, anywhere near that. I wouldn't say it's zero though, because like just the like the VHS playback you get from the tape is is disturbing. But I mean it's not it's not necessarily horribly gory. Um, I think the gorest of everything was like how they served up the dead people's faces. Like that wasn't gory, but it was gory that they thought it was okay, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_07 39:33

It's like I I think it was creepy and a little scary and not gory. I think that's the problem. There wasn't enough blood and guts for Alexis.

SPEAKER_01 39:40

I mean, I don't think I need it, but like if you're gonna show something, I mean, seeing our first actress die the way she did, I mean, it's it's unsettling, but I wasn't like, holy crap, like one of those images that I've seen in my head that I'll never let go. Trying to think of some movies offhand, but even like I see the Baba Duke, and I'm like, that's very terrifying, that's unsettling. But seeing that to me wasn't that creepy.

SPEAKER_05 40:04

Yeah. I feel like what they were kind of doing was deliberately like playing at different people's phobias. And I don't think I ever realized this before, but specifically, I I had a college roommate, and she's actually one of my best friends now, but she has this like really weird phobia of like rice burned to a pan, like the bottom of a pan. And I would like chase her around the apartment with it because it was so funny to me that she was scared by this.

SPEAKER_00 40:25

What a dick.

SPEAKER_05 40:26

I was like, let's unpack that. Like, why is this rice burned to this pan scary to you? And she's like, Because it reminds me of like a bunch of bodies like in a burning building. And I was like, I don't know what that means, but that's so dark sided. But when I saw the shot that you're talking about, Alexis, where the maggots like turned into like the writhing naked bodies in like a pile, I was like, oh, that is scary. And that's exactly what she's talking about when she talks about like why that rice is so scary to her. So, like between that and like the fake the nail through the finger, and then like the the long like hair coming out of that thing's throat, I feel like it played on different people's phobias in that footage, and it was kind of just like a smorgesborg of scary things, albeit pretty low on gore.

SPEAKER_07 41:06

Y'all know I think maggots are some of the most disgusting things, and seeing them in movies is horrific for me. And then when I realized they turned into people, because I never picked up on that before, I was like just amazed by it.

SPEAKER_01 41:19

So, to me, since the kills are a little lacklustern, half of them you see through a film. I wanted to see if you guys have any ideas on, you know, what is this way that Samara's actually killing these people? Because I do have a reference on a theory that's been noted, but I wanted to hear what y'all thought. Oh, she jumps down their throat, obviously. What? She makes them gag on her. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 41:40

Gagging.

SPEAKER_07 41:41

Wow. No, like you know how people say, like, don't jump down my throat. She's like, I don't know. Uh she just always has their mouths hanging open, I feel like. So I don't that's all I got. I I think it's one of those things you just aren't supposed to think about.

SPEAKER_05 41:52

According to Dead by Daylight, she uses telekinetic abilities to just like fuck them up. But I always interpret it as like she just like scared them to death because their face is very much like that scream painting of that guy that's like with his mouth agape.

SPEAKER_00 42:05

Like they're literally petrified.

SPEAKER_05 42:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:07

Yeah. So in my understanding of this one, she is using that like um that psychic power, and the victims, like all those images from the tape are like over like flashing really quickly and overwhelming and like kind of like overloading their brains until they die of a heart attack and their face is all fucked up. Like actually petrified, yeah, Ryan.

SPEAKER_01 42:28

Yeah, you're right, Chris. So that they have a theory out there that somehow Samara kills her victims. She uses this mental projection of all those images on the cursed videotape into her victims all at once. And like you said, it is a mental overload, and pretty much their external bodies seem to like rot or dry out because of this, you know, overload.

SPEAKER_00 42:49

Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. It does seem like they dry out, right? It's almost like as if the they are so petrified that they're just their body absorbs any liquid or moisture that's in them and they look like fucking mummies. Uh Katie's like the gore for Katie, like uh when we first see what she looked like in the closet, absolutely wild. I think my favorite death is actually something that isn't even caused directly by the tape, but rather it's Richard's death, where he just feels compelled to go to dramatic lengths because it'll never stop to just electrocute himself in a bathtub. I mean, honestly, the man is just dramatic.

SPEAKER_05 43:27

That was the most elaborate, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:29

Uh so elaborate, no payoff. Because you don't even see him. But you know, I feel like if they did show it, it would be very similar to the visual of Samara being held by Rachel and slowly decaying, which was freaking horrible, in my opinion. I was just like, I'm not sure how they did this, but it's it's not working. It's not working for me.

SPEAKER_07 43:53

Yeah, I wouldn't say that it didn't work for me. I felt like it was interesting. I mean, it wasn't like amazing, but it didn't look bad. That's what aged. Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 44:03

Yeah. For me, Samara's just face. Like at the end, when she crawls out of the TV, I was like, fuck yeah, let's go. Let's get it. And then we just get this makeup of her that did not sit well with me at all. Because it felt like it felt like blue Linda Blair from The Exorcist, but not as good. Ooh. Ooh, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 44:23

So oddly enough, at the end, it wasn't the makeup that really bothered me. It was the TV effect that they applied only to her. And I don't remember her being on screen for so long at the end. And at the end of this movie, she's just like chilling, like just walking through an apartment for a while. And it it really, really loses that that fear, anything that was there, any fear that was there.

SPEAKER_05 44:44

What? I was completely gagged.

SPEAKER_07 44:46

The little TV, the TV, little like lines and flickering.

SPEAKER_05 44:50

Yeah, she comes out and she has like that TV effect because she came from the TV. And like it's like the fly halfway through the movie, like is a foreshadowing. Like, oh, if the fly can come out of the TV, she's gonna come out of the TV. And then you finally get that big moment at the end.

SPEAKER_07 45:02

That effect is the most 2002 part of this movie. Truly. Not the Nokia phone, that effect.

SPEAKER_00 45:08

It does look better in Dead by Daylight, though. She looks fucking great.

SPEAKER_03 45:11

I gotta say, that scene was like the death that I think of when I think of this movie. And it's what like I remembered very distinctly. And I was like, we're getting towards the end, you know. They they realize, okay, we freed her, she's she's in a better place now or whatever. And I'm like waiting. I'm like, it's going to happen, it's gonna happen. Like, when do we get to the scene? Hurry it up because I know this is coming. And it really bothered me that it was at the very end. Because I for some reason I thought it happened way earlier in the film, but I I don't know if I could pick another favorite death aside from that one because it's the one that's had like the most lasting impression in my mind.

SPEAKER_07 45:42

So I actually agree. I remember that the most, but I knew it was all the way the end. I remember that like it wasn't an apartment, like that loft being the last thing we see. But for me, the most impactful death was not that one. That one was like quite a letdown for me this time, but the first death was like killer this time. I completely forgot the first part of this movie, the first scene. I was like, who are these girls? Like, I haven't seen them at all. I don't know them, I don't remember any of the story. And then that kill, like when we finally see that body, you know, she's in the closet. Oh, insane.

SPEAKER_00 46:14

So I will admit that I forgot that she was Aiden's cousin. I forgot that they were related. In my mind, it was like just a random kill at the beginning that's also related, obviously, to this tape, but it was gonna be like her separate as a journalist investigating this mysterious death. Not that she was compelled to investigate because it was her niece. That was interesting to me.

SPEAKER_05 46:36

I have to say, my favorite kill, and I'm kind of upset that nobody's mentioned this, but it's Samara. The whole movie is building up to how she died, and then when you finally get it, and it's like her mom has to kill her in this super dramatic scene where she's like, I've always wanted a child, but then I had you, and like you're somehow the devil, so you have to be killed. And then just like suffocating your daughter with a bag, pushing her in a well, thinking she's dead, and then her not being dead, and then just like dying in that well for seven days. That's like the whole plot of the movie, and it was so great. And I don't remember it being so impactful. I think this time I had a different emotional perspective going into it because I like empathized with the mom and I was like, wow, imagine having to kill your baby girl this way, and then her not actually dying because you didn't do a good job.

SPEAKER_03 47:17

She truly murked her though. Like, she didn't get to look her in the face, she came up behind her with the plastic bag and then like threw her into the well, you know.

SPEAKER_01 47:24

She's taking a bitch way out. The kid is crazy, bro. Y'all are I felt bad for her.

SPEAKER_07 47:30

Why? That's what's wrong.

SPEAKER_05 47:32

It's a complex moment.

SPEAKER_07 47:34

Your what's wrong with this movie? You would have tried to save her. I would. I'd have been like, guess what, Aiden?

SPEAKER_01 47:39

We did it. We did it. We're good. We're saving the whole world. Instead, I made a copy and I'm stupid as hell. Meanwhile.

SPEAKER_03 47:46

Like so, I'm sorry, but Samara's mom and her dad, obviously, she was torturing them and everything, but they should have realized the potential she had, that she was honestly just destined for really horrible things and supported her in that endeavor.

SPEAKER_01 47:58

It was the hair. I would have known with the hair.

SPEAKER_07 48:00

It was just it was really obvious the whole time that that Samar was the problem, not the mother. So Alexis would literally be a remake of this mother that's like, let me save the little girl. She didn't deserve this. Like, she clearly said she likes killing people. Yeah. You heard it. Why weren't you listening? She did say she's sorry though.

SPEAKER_05 48:17

The mom did what she had to do.

SPEAKER_07 48:19

Literally. It was it was very obvious that she handled what she had to handle.

SPEAKER_00 48:22

Really, this is just the inverse of Carrie and her mom.

SPEAKER_05 48:25

Yeah. This is what Carrie's mom should have done. Or maybe not. I think Carrie's mom is the reason Carrie was a bitch. I don't remember.

SPEAKER_00 48:31

Yes. Yes. Well, I mean, Carrie wasn't even. Carrie was abused emotionally from all every angle in her life.

SPEAKER_05 48:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 48:39

Whereas this, it takes the evil of Carrie's mom and puts it into the it turns the tables and paints the whole story in a different light, except instead of Carrie going crazy at the prom, Carrie dies at the bottom of a well and ends up haunting people on TV. It's fucking weird.

SPEAKER_05 48:55

Samara is the daughter that Mrs. White thought she had.

SPEAKER_00 48:58

Exactly. Samara is the daughter that Mrs. White deserved.

SPEAKER_05 49:03

Yes. But imagine if they were in a family together. I think they actually could have done big things.

SPEAKER_00 49:09

Real effective.

SPEAKER_05 49:10

Let's talk about visuals because this movie I feel like was absolutely filled with solid visuals. So obviously, the tape itself is such a memorable visual element. And I think they did a really good job of collecting these like really brief but really shocking and like jarring, almost traumatic, like moments of horror. Like specifically, I will never forget that nail going through somebody's finger and like splitting their fingernail off.

SPEAKER_00 49:34

I already did.

SPEAKER_05 49:35

But I think one of my other favorite visual elements has to just be the well of it all. Because one wells before this, who gave a shit? You flip a coin, you throw, you make a wish. I don't know, baby Jessica fell down a well. They weren't really that that much of a thing. But then this movie came out and it was like, oh, wells are not to be fucked with. And you have this like this recurring shot of just like a well and like some trees in the background that like everyone remembers now from the ring. But then to realize that the ring itself is the halo of light that you see when you're from the bottom of the well, I think that was just like such a shift in perspective. And at the time it was like very much a gag. And I think that I think is what will always stick out in my mind as like the visual of the ring, the ring itself, as it were.

SPEAKER_00 50:24

So I think for me, it was actually the way they show that tape in so many different ways being played in so many different households. I I love the moments when we have Naomi Watts as Rachel scrubbing through the tape and you know, messing with the fly, etc. But for me, it was there was one particular moment where the camera goes from the side and she's on the left side of the frame, the TV's on the right side of the frame, and you see the ring. Like the tape has started to play, and she is like so close to it. And it's just this really beautiful shot where she is so up close and intimate with this tape and has no idea like the curse that she is just like getting into. It was absolutely beautiful. It was one of those things where, like, obviously, there's very little shadow in this movie, which I'll say it, it was intentional, it had motivation. I get it. I didn't like it. Uh it gives you it's intended to give you like this nauseating this it's intended to give you this nauseating feeling like something's not quite right here. But for me, it just looked bad. For me, it just didn't stick. But that moment where she's looking at the TV, it created like a lot of depth in that room, and that depth didn't feel as present in the rest of the movie. I could totally see that.

SPEAKER_01 51:40

Paris speaking of the well, to go along with that, whatever is encased in this, the cabin is my favorite. I think I'm just so nostalgic towards cabins. I love cabin fever, I love evil dead. So when I saw this, I was like, hell yeah, there's a creepy cabin, and it just looked crazy. And I was like, they really stayed in there because it looks pretty, pretty run down, but I just love the creepiness, and you have this still of them coming in, and it's just the cabin, and you don't know exactly what's going to be in there, but it's a truly great shot, and I just love that whole vibe of it. I just need to throw this out here real quick.

SPEAKER_07 52:18

I don't understand why the cabin is built on top of the well. It doesn't make sense to me. Is that a normal thing that would happen that somebody would just build on a well? Is there a reason this is built over the well? Like, it seems so disconnected, and I don't understand that part of the story. However, I think my favorite visual element is plucking the fly out of the video. Because I knew it was gonna happen. I was just waiting. I was like, wait, I think that fly comes out, and he totally does, and it's so gross, and then she just has a freaking fly in her hand all this. Like, what are you gonna do when you pull a fly out of a video? It looks so good in here and it was so creepy. I loved it.

SPEAKER_03 52:56

I had a very different favorite visual element from the rest of you. Uh no flies in mine, but actually, it is the color in one of the scenes, and it's the cabin scene. So it's the one where they realize it's a well, and it suddenly has this huge amount of warmth in that scene, and I loved it. Like it feels dreamlike. You're looking outside, you have that pink skyline happening as the sun is setting, and they think they're gonna die, and they're like they're reaching this point of despair, and Noah's like, no, no, no, it's okay, Rachel. Like, we're we're gonna live, you're gonna figure it out. That's why we're here, baby. That's why we're here. And then like the marbles are rolling. But I just think it was a great juxtaposition because you're having like the rest of the movies, like green and blue and all these cool, like dead colors where everything just feels depressing, and then this moment where she's in despair, it feels real like really warm. It's kind of it's kind of like random, but it's like you know, that pink-orangey feel from this from the sky, and finally I can see their skin tones a little bit, and I just love that they made that change. Yeah, I think it was even more impactful since the rest of the movie was you know, saw basically.

SPEAKER_07 53:58

Not not that bad.

SPEAKER_01 54:00

It was not that bad.

SPEAKER_05 54:01

I think you just like bury a secret.

SPEAKER_01 54:03

Well, I thought it was just built over and it was like so happenly. Who built over a well? The town.

SPEAKER_05 54:08

Yeah, no, if it was unrelated to the murder, they would have built around the well. So it had to have been related to the murder, and they were just like, let's build a well cabin here.

SPEAKER_00 54:16

That's what I'm saying, but what was this random cabin? Let me just say this Savannah, Georgia is a city built on its dead. Everywhere you go, they famously say you're standing on dead bodies right now. If real America can just fucking build over uh so many graves, so many wells have already been built over. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_05 54:36

It's like the poltergeist, I'm pretty sure.

SPEAKER_00 54:38

I don't believe that wells are built over. I totally do.

SPEAKER_07 54:41

I'm not so sure.

SPEAKER_01 54:42

I absolutely do. I'm sure they cover it. Not like under the floor. I don't know. Anyway.

SPEAKER_05 54:48

Ever since baby Jessica fell, they had to cover all the wells and build over them.

SPEAKER_01 54:51

So my favorite scene is definitely going to have to be the first scene when you have the two girls bannering back and forth because I feel like it really sets the mood, especially for this movie's presence during the time. Because I feel like it was like, oh, something happened to me. I watched this movie, you know, I watched this movie and then saw the cursed film inside the movie, and they're just going around messing with each other, and you know, it's who's telling the truth at this point, and they're just going back and forth. And I love when she picks up the phone, and you know, I figured it might be the mom, but I'm like, maybe it isn't, maybe it's someone checking up. But I love this back and forth of them playing a game, but Rachel's niece actually being the one who knew about this, but keeping it kind of a secret. So to me, there was a lot of the banner back and forth that I felt was realistic, and I loved it.

SPEAKER_03 55:40

My favorite scene was very, very early in the film, and that's when Rachel is picking up Aiden from class. And I I think it really sets the tone for who we're supposed to think Rachel is as a person at this point in her life. Like that scene was enough to establish the idea that perhaps she doesn't pay her son enough attention, it doesn't take him seriously enough, it isn't really reacting to what he's going through. Then again, it's only been three days after his cousin died, but also why is he in class again? Maybe he should like get a week off or something and like talk to a counselor. I don't know. I just love like the back and forth, the way that she's able to justify her response to the teacher. Um, I I I think it really shows you at the end of the movie like how she's grown as well.

SPEAKER_07 56:18

I agree. I really enjoyed that mostly because I enjoyed every second of this movie that has Aiden in it. Like every scene that has Aiden with some snarky, overly intelligent commentary dialogue. It's so good. It just like I just want to be around Aiden, even though I clearly don't want him to be my child. I love him so much. He kept like a smile on my face the whole time. I also have a soft spot for adorable kids, so there's that.

SPEAKER_00 56:46

Okay, I'm 100% with you, Ryan, because my favorite scene is actually when she is with him in his bedroom, she's tucking him in, and he says, We don't have enough time. And she immediately apologizes. She knows she's been working a lot, and he's like, I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about time before we die. And it's like, oh, you don't have to worry about that. He's like, Oh, so you do know when I'm gonna die. You know what I mean? Like he just catches her in these logical traps, and I think it was this moment where like, A, we see how grim the world can be for a child who's like processing death and thinking about it for the first time, but also to know that his cousin knew about the tape, and there's all these little details that have happened in the background before this movie even started that we just are now learning about. But I think for me, that was a shining example of how great his character were, of how great his character was, and how great she was, and how their bond really defined the movie.

SPEAKER_05 57:41

I think their bond was definitely a large element of this movie, but I think this movie at the end of the day was all about Naomi Watts as Rachel, a woman on a mission to get to the bottom of this story. And that meant her getting to the bottom of that well. And that was my favorite scene. The realization that the well is underneath the floorboards of this Airbnb. That was, first of all, what crazy. But then the way that like Samara like really amped up her powers, like unscrewed a bunch of shit in the floorboards, and then absolutely sent that TV Final Destination style down to smack Naomi Watts right into that well, was just like such a great sequence and chain of events. And then it kind of like all culminated in this like everything went black, everything went silent, and it's like now she's at the bottom of the well. What do we do from here? And I think that was just such a good climax, the way that built tension and it built drama and the production value of Samara's antics. And then that was probably one of my favorite movies, or one of my favorite final destination kills or almost kills in the world.

SPEAKER_07 58:42

Paris, I thought of you so much because this movie does go directly towards Final Destination vibes. So, like, and especially when she doesn't die, and you're like, oh, she like they like skipped her death, you know? It really does feel like Final Destination. It's a little weird. It's like very on the nose.

SPEAKER_05 58:59

Yeah. Specifically, like the unscrewing of things. That's so final destination.

SPEAKER_07 59:03

Yeah. And then the way it like clearly everything, like a little chain reaction happened to hit her, but then she didn't die. And then everybody was like, Well, what's happening? You're alive, everything's okay. We fixed it. No, you didn't. You never fix it.

SPEAKER_03 59:16

You just pass it on by making a copy. It is kind of fun to think that Samar is basically Gene Gray from the X-Men.

SPEAKER_01 59:21

Is she?

SPEAKER_03 59:22

She is.

SPEAKER_01 59:22

How so?

SPEAKER_03 59:23

Psychic.

SPEAKER_01 59:24

Oh.

SPEAKER_03 59:25

This is basically like Firestarter had the girl been killed, right? So um it's fun to see, I guess, that idea of is like if you took an Omega-level mutant out, like what would happen? Um, but I also wish that she hadn't been taken out. I want to see that movie. I want to see where Samar like exists and lives and was never killed.

SPEAKER_01 59:42

I have a question to the group because I did see in our live stream chat that everyone was talking about the dynamic and Naomi Watts' character as a mom. Someone said she's trash. I want to know. Because to me, she neglected him the entire time. Um, I guess she's putting him out of harm's way. Most moms take their child with them in horror movies and subject them to that, but I don't know. She was just not present at all. She's a working woman. I get it too. You know, I if anyone gets it, I I get it. But I don't know, I didn't want to see that in a horror movie per se.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:20

That child was clearly like a little happy bean. I don't know. Like he was just chilling, like this is what he does. Like they clearly had an established lifestyle. And I don't think that every family has to be like happy and spending lots of time together. And also she didn't even tell him about his dad, and he looked at his dad while he's walking.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:40

Or maybe he knew that was his dad. What's the point of telling him that his dad is his dad if his dad isn't around? Well, I don't know. I don't know the dynamic that happened before the movie, but it seemed like they had been talking. Like he was still around. Like it wasn't like she's like, Hey, can I call you up for this one thing? He just showed up. So I assume they had some sort of connection throughout the body.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:59

Well, yeah, had a kid together at some point, but uh the the point is he clearly wasn't ready to be a dad, so why did he need to like you don't need to have a deadbeat dad around just because he's a dad? And if you don't if you're not ready to be one, it's okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:11

I think in addition to her, let's say, absence in her child's life, there was a notable lack of any sort of maternal instinct in Rachel's character.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:22

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:23

That at first I thought was just like accidental, and it was just like Naomi Watt's performance, especially in that scene that Mac was mentioning where she goes to talk to the teacher about it. And at one point she's literally like, he just lost his best friend and she died. He's gonna be fine, and like she really does not give a shit. And I was like, This woman is so flat as a character, but then you see her like really blossom when it comes time to investigate what's going on, and I was like, Okay, so she's like very much a career woman first.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:47

And yeah, when she does stuff to make herself happy, yeah, that's when she's blossoming as a character.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:54

Yeah, she's really great at that. She's a career woman first and like a mother, sort of incidentally, but then as she's sort of uncovering this mystery and learning about the relationship that another mother had with their child, and as that sort of dynamic starts to threaten her own child, that's when you sort of see her grow and like the real like mom, like the mom clause come out, and she gets very like fiercely maternal. And I think watching that evolution, which at first seemed accidental and based on just like not a great performance, ended up being a really solid performance because it all seemed very deliberate. Now, I did actually look it up because I was so curious, and Naomi Watts does have children, but she filmed this before she ever had any kids. So she was very much somebody who may or may not have had a maternal instinct in the filming of this. But I think through the end, we definitely see that she's able to convey both sides of that effectively.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:45

Yeah, I love that obviously, you know, he is his own independent person within some measure of reason. And she's at least in touch with like what the his teachers are saying about him. Like, you'll be the only teacher to complain about the fact that you don't have to tell him what to do. So it seems like he's been raised in a healthy way. She seems like she's close to her sister, he's around other kids. You know what I mean? Like, I actually really like her dynamic as a mom because it doesn't, she doesn't have to be the overly doting mothers that we tend to see in movies. Like she's not totally absent and abusive. She's not toxic like m you know, Carrie White's mom, but she's like a balance of I don't always get things right. I'm here, I love my kid, I fuck up, I'm a real person. But then that moment where she realizes, well, A, yeah, she was absent-minded enough to leave the tape around him. But the fact that we see such dramatic horror on her face when she realizes that he's watched the tape, it's like she's been figuring out how to be a mom this entire time, but all of a sudden, shit just became far more grave and she's operating with a greater sense of urgency because of it.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:56

Yes. And I think that was so well portrayed. Though I did find it a little bit odd when she's helping her sister, like in the kitchen, and this woman who just lost her daughter is doing the dishes, and Nami Watts like hands her another dish to wash. Doesn't look like she's helping necessarily, but it's like, here, take this. Like there were certain parts where she felt like very cold as a family member.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:17

It seemed older sister, younger sister, dynamic, and I'm in your house and you're probably trying to distract yourself. And you know, I I try to like help people with dishes when I go to their homes. They're always like, no, put that down.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:27

Not in my house.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:29

The way that she lied to that man at the cabin about her niece uh like running away from home, like really seemed like she couldn't have given less of a shit that her niece was dead.

SPEAKER_07 1:04:37

I think she played like the perfect, like uptight, not really like friendly, like she just is that person. I I feel like that's just how she was. Like very reporter-ish. Yeah, yeah. But I don't know. I think I the one thing that kind of got to me is like I'm not sure what the point of like going to the house and and everything. Like, I don't I don't know. I don't really understand some of the things, and this movie doesn't really aim to explain it all. Like, it doesn't explain how she how Samara kills people, doesn't really explain like the stuff with like the cabin and everything. And obviously she finds the lighthouse, she goes there, but I don't know. There just it was like a lot of stuff that I didn't remember that I didn't really like love happening in the movie, like the whole horses thing I forgot about, and then I totally forgot that we meet her dad and he kills himself. Like that was all a complete surprise to me, to be fair. Most of the movie was, but a lot of that stuff I just wasn't so sure about. And I think that actually ends up taking me to my worst part of this movie, which is I remember a lot more of the tape and like interesting details. I remember a lot more happening when she went to that island and like was in the house and all this stuff. And I was really let down by what we got. We, I mean, we get her in the house for like a second, he kills himself, she leaves and she talks to a doctor. Basically, oh, I and then and then they go upstairs into the little room. But I don't know, I just really Remember that being like such a significant portion of this movie, and it wasn't, and it let me down quite a bit. And I don't know. I and I just think there was an opportunity for the tape to have more of a big role, but it seems like after she scrolled through it on the machine and kind of like looked at it in detail, there wasn't really much else. When I remember a a schlew of more things that I thought existed.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:20

See, I get that. I get that you would think there's a lot more to be seen or explained within the tape itself. When really it's just like a bunch of uh horrific and spooky images. But I actually enjoy the presence that it has because I think if we saw more of it, I'd get tired of it, and I think it would take away from my best part of the movie, which is the end. And it's her having this realization that the killing skipped over her because she made a copy. And then it was the close-ups we get of her hands on Aiden's hands, putting in the tape, pressing rewind, hitting record, making a copy, and then both watching it together. That was such a powerful moment. And I think if we had seen any more of that tape in the movie itself and linger around it more, I think I would have just been tired of it by then.

SPEAKER_07 1:07:10

For some reason, I thought that there were like additional scenes that she discovered when she got to the house. I don't know. Remember when we talked about I expected a lot of hair brushing, or Paris mentioned that like two weeks ago. We were like, there's a lot of hairbrushing in this.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:22

That was a scary movie. Yeah, there was no hairbrushing in this.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:25

That was a scary movie. There was some hairbrushing. Like she goes into the house, she sees the mirror on the wall, she flashes back to the image of the mother brushing her hair in the mirror. But it wasn't enough. It wasn't as much as I remembered. Comparatively, it wasn't the parody level hairbrushing that you remember from another movie. Yeah. It's exactly correct.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:44

So, Chris, going on with the continuing on with the conversation about the end. So what was really going on? Because I guess I was confused. He made a copy and then they were just gonna continue making copies and sending them. I don't know what the implication was.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:59

And they had to show it to somebody.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:01

So yeah, Alexis, she realizes that the curse skipped over her not because she solved Samara's problem or like got to the bottom of this mystery, but because she made a copy of the tape. And the tape and that copy is how she was able to escape the seven days. You know what I mean? So she realized that Aiden washed the tape a few days after her, so then she had to help him make a copy so that he could then escape death. But there's footage missing from this movie. There are scenes where there was a character who was working with her in the beginning, he was like a serial killer, and it was to show that she was like a journalist and established her career, and he is there in the beginning of the movie, and then at the end of the movie, she gives a copy of the tape to him, and she passes the curse on. They decided to take that out and keep the ending that we have, which I really enjoy, but that's what was originally intended. I think that would have helped you connect the dots.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:00

Okay, yeah. So no one necessarily needs to watch the other copy, you just have to copy it.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:05

I think it's both. I think you have to copy it and pass it on. You have to spread the curse to be on her good list.

SPEAKER_07 1:09:11

They also did the lovely, really creepy thing of making it seem like we are the people that have been.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:16

Yeah, and I think that's why at the end had more understanding, probably when I was younger, because I was more terrified of that. I'm like, oh shit, we just watched a fucking movie, man. We're all cursed.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:26

I could have sworn Naomi Wats was about to look dead in the camera at me at the end of the movie.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:31

And be like, gotcha, bitch. It wasn't far off. So because I hacked this movie, I get to say what I like about it. My favorite part. And I think my favorite part is definitely going to be the climax of the movie for me, which is when Noah is found out to be Aiden's dad, because I don't remember that from the beginning. I didn't know that this was a thing. And I was like, damn, he straight up saw him. And I just like the dynamic of that part, but honestly, that's the more interesting part of this entire story. But I was like, oh, what a twist. That's a cop-out answer, but we'll let it slide. Oh, I have a bunch. I mean, we've talked about Aiden. Aiden has to be my favorite part too, but I I like that because that was a twist I wasn't expecting. Way to throw some family drama into it, and I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:16

My worst part of this movie is also related to Noah, and that is the two scenes in which he is wearing flip-flops. There's no reason for him to be wearing flip-flops. It is not complimentary to his outfit. It threw me off, and I was like, oh god, why is he wearing flip-flops in a studio? I don't know. It was horrible. It was not the look. He died in flip-flops, so live with that, Noah. Not the vibe.

SPEAKER_07 1:10:41

This is we're back to a very Paris thing here. No one else paid attention. Did anyone else in the room notice that that man was wearing flip-flops? Absolutely never. He's an artist.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:50

It's an eye for detail.

SPEAKER_07 1:10:51

I have one more thing before we move on that isn't my worst part, but like we need to talk about the horse situation on that boat, okay?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:59

We don't have to. That was terrible. I never want to think about that again. That was traumatic.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:04

Are horses smart like whales and elephants? I feel like they have human souls.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:09

The fact that we have that horse jumping over the boat into the water and then whinnying and naying and like trying to survive. Oh my god, that was look. Obviously, I don't like it when dogs die in movies, but that was fucking heartbreaking to see it clamoring and to know that there's no fucking way, even if they somehow managed to lower a small rescue boat to get like if someone fell over, they can get a fucking horse back on. You know what I mean? That was just so upsetting.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:35

Yeah, that was tragic and stressful.

SPEAKER_07 1:11:37

A few things I think that drive on fairies are like a weird thing anyway. I've been on a couple and they're just like they're just like creepy for some reason. Like they just feel weird because it's a parking lot on a boat. It's strange. And then the horse thing, and obviously the horse was gonna jump off the boat. I mean, we all knew that was gonna happen. It was freaked out by her. But then to show us it like in the water, like struggling on the side of the boat, and it was like, okay, obviously the horses died. Why did they run to the back of the boat to look at the water? Why? Why did we do that? It was obviously gonna be dead, whether you saw the blood or not. The horse was not gonna live through that. It wasn't gonna swim through the like the other side of whatever body of water this was. It was so horrific. They did need to show us that. We didn't need the blood.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:23

It was also just like suspiciously good CGI. Like, I don't know how they did that, but it was like, is that horse actually dying before my very eyes?

SPEAKER_07 1:12:30

Yeah, there are no horses hurt in this movie, but man, it does seem like it is.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:36

Well, that was a great worst part of the movie. Um thanks for robbing my brain. You just robbed my brain of that thought. So I'm gonna go back to my original complaint, which is the green. So I know it was a a distinct like decision, like we want to do this, and here's the reasons why, as Chris has mentioned. Um, but we have such beautiful displays that we watch movies on at home now, and it it would have been so much nicer to watch this in full color without the tint of a sprite bottle.

SPEAKER_07 1:13:04

So I just think that you're being completely tainted by all the other horrific like green tints that we've seen. Maybe remember the collector?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:12

Now that's where they did green bad.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:14

Although as a fan, but in in sci-fi they do this a lot with other colors, like you'll get to desert planets and everything is just like tainted piss yellow, and I and I never enjoy it. Just let the colors of reality be the colors of reality. I mean, when you're in the desert, the world doesn't turn yellow, and I hate that that that's how TV shows everything. And when you're in a really like dismal place, the world isn't green or or blue, depending on your eyeballs. So I don't know. It just it still bothers me. It's a small complaint. I actually don't have too many about this film. Um, but I think they should re-release this with better color grading, just saying.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:48

Yeah, Mac, I absolutely don't disagree with you. I think it has some personal bias there for why I detest the coloring of this movie so much. And I think it's just one of the many reasons why I won't re-watch this movie again, given that I've already tried again after 10 after 20 years.

SPEAKER_07 1:14:03

I'm sure that I will actually re-watch this again at some point. It won't be anytime soon, and I think the beauty of it this time has been my poor memory. So I'm gonna wait for that to recycle again. I don't need to see this again.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:15

Now that I know that this movie has stood the test of time, it's definitely gonna be something I will re-watch in the future. If you have not watched this movie, I definitely recommend it. In fact, I've made a copy that I recommend you watch. Uh, I can send you a link if you need it. Uh, please watch it soon. I don't have a lot of time.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:31

I uh I'm not gonna be watching that, Paris. I think the original was was enough for me. Um, but in terms of this film, I just I think it's like it was a moment. We had that moment. I'm glad I was part of it, but I probably don't need to do it again. There's just so much other stuff coming out that I'm I'm never really gonna make the time.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:48

I mean, I agree with you, Mac. I think there's obviously an abundance of options you can choose from instead of re-watching this movie again. You've seen it once, you've seen it twice, but let's see what value you can provide for us with fact or fiction.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:59

Number one, I know what the ghost whisperer Jennifer Love Hewitt did last summer. She turned down starring in this film to avoid becoming typecast as a Scream Queen.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:07

I would say this is a fact. They look very similar. How about a go fiction?

SPEAKER_03 1:15:11

I feel like I've heard this before. I'm gonna say fact. Yep, it's it's a fact. And that was a reference to the movie that she was in called I Know What She Did last Summer, if any of you didn't catch that. Who didn't catch that? Number two, Tommy Lee Jones also turned down a role in the film as Richard Morgan because filming conflicted with another 2002 nostalgia inducer, Men in Black 2.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:31

They look kind of similar. Their face texture is similar.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:34

It is.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:35

It is. Okay, thank you, Farrish.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:36

She's not wrong.

SPEAKER_07 1:15:37

I'm gonna say this is fiction. I've never recognized similarities in face texture between people before. I hate it. Yeah, I'm gonna go fiction just to stand with my previous answer that was wrong.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:50

I'm also gonna say fiction. I bet he was filming Wild, Wild West at that time. Actually, I don't even know if that's him.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:56

Okay, so this one is a fiction, but Men in Black 2 did come out in 2002. So this was a fiction because it was only ever gonna be Brian Cox. Uh, and he actually had to turn down a movie to be in this movie. It was Ghost Ship.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:07

Actually, I like that movie. No. Better decision. You probably like that movie the same way that Ryan liked 13 ghosts and then remembered she shouldn't have. Yeah, that might be it.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:17

Number three. Horses lose their shit in this movie thanks to Samara. Horses are kept in stables. The last name of the stunt actor who played Samara, Stables.

SPEAKER_07 1:16:25

Oh my god, are you joking me? I'm going fiction. Fiction.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:29

I don't know. I could see Max seeing this and then creating this jaunty little question. So I'm gonna say fact.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:35

You're correct. This is a fact. Her name is Kelly Stables. She continued the fun in the sequel. And number four, the red Japanese maple in the VHS footage was transplanted for the film, but it was struck by lightning and cracked in half before all of its footage was shot. The crew had to use a combination of copied shots and prop footage to finish.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:52

I've seen the little documentary, Cursed Films, and I didn't see this one on it. So I'm gonna say that's a fiction.

SPEAKER_07 1:16:59

I'll also go fiction, but I'm feeling I'm feeling like I could be wrong here. The like having to make it feels like it could have happened.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:08

I don't know, this feels like such a stretch that how could Mac have made it up? And also, like if it's the only tree in a large field, it could easily get struck by lightning. So let's go ahead and say fact.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:18

Nice one. This one is a fiction. That tree was Toad's man-made. Steel tubing, plaster, and painted silk for the leaves. Uh it got blown down both in Washington State and California due to mad winds, like four times or some crap. Or maybe twice. And that's been fact or fiction.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:34

Well, there you have it, folks. The ring from 2002, the American remake, has earned three slashes and two hacks. Now we've certainly had a lot to talk about here, but the conversation doesn't end here by any means. Now you can join in because we want to know what you think. Where you stand on the ring. Does it still stand the test of time for you? You can join in on that conversation by hanging out with us for free and chatting about it in our Discord. Click the link in our show notes to sign up.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:59

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SPEAKER_00 1:18:20

We'll see you next time, folks. And remember, some people have limits. Bye.