213: Friday the 13th: A New Beginning (1985)

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Take a drama mean Mac.

SPEAKER_05 0:10

Greetings and salutations and welcome to Hack or Slash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. My don't you look lovely today? If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack.

SPEAKER_04 0:25

A total joke, a waste of time, or a slash. Totally killer. Pun intended.

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We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, we're rating these movies with the perspective we've gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast. This week I'm joined by the Superfly Space Guy Mac. Hola Muchachos, the Gore Lover Alexis. Hey everyone. And the Scream Queen Paris.

SPEAKER_01 0:48

Girl, you are so hot.

SPEAKER_05 0:51

This episode is publicly releasing on yet another Friday the 13th, so we're commemorating the occasion by checking out what Jason's been up to. Before we get down to business though, we have some follow-up.

SPEAKER_01 1:01

Let's follow up on a movie. We are commemorating that one time when we recorded an episode about the movie Wreck. Did we ever talk about how to say the title of this movie? Is it record? Is it wreck?

SPEAKER_05 1:12

I said wreck during that whole episode, but it's implied record.

SPEAKER_01 1:16

I think I did too. It feels weird. Well, it's that found footage movie where all those people are trapped inside of a quarantined apartment building. And we wanted to know what our listeners thought. And both of the results are in. 21% of our listeners gave it a hack, while 79% gave the film a slash. And I think Alexis is mad about that.

SPEAKER_06 1:34

Nope, I got uh I got it reversed. I wasn't reading correctly. Oh, okay, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 1:39

Because I was like, I don't know, this feels pretty this feels pretty accurate for the movie.

SPEAKER_06 1:43

If it was 21% and said it was a slash, I was gonna throw my computer across the room.

SPEAKER_01 1:47

That would definitely be upsetting. Yeah, the movie's better than that. Is it?

SPEAKER_06 1:51

Well, the third one I I will say probably 21% a slash, but for this one, yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:57

Wait, Alexis, not only did you watch the second one, but you went to the third.

SPEAKER_06 2:01

Oh, I went to second and third, yes.

SPEAKER_01 2:04

Wow. Was it a home run?

SPEAKER_06 2:06

It was completely not what one and two were.

SPEAKER_01 2:09

Okay. Not Paris with a sports joke. That was a sports joke, thank you, Chris. I only have two in my life, and that was one. We have a couple comments from our listeners. Rob on Discord said, Gold stars for Chris and Alexis. Unfortunately, Paris, Ryan, and Mac all failed the assignment. I think that's because we hacked it.

SPEAKER_05 2:27

That would be why. We we managed to at least redeem the team, Alexis and I, by slashing it, but there's no making up for you three.

SPEAKER_04 2:35

Well, you know, I I'm so sorry that I spent the movie dizzy. There's nothing I can do about that.

SPEAKER_01 2:39

Take a drama mean, Mac. We have a comment from one of our patrons, Darren, who said, This is a solid slash from me. However, I did fall asleep three times while watching it. There's just something about it that made me sleepy despite all the shaky cam and screaming. Luckily, I did get to watch the subtitled version on Prime. It was free with commercials here in the UK.

SPEAKER_05 2:56

Wow, I really envy you all in the UK even more now.

SPEAKER_01 2:59

Okay, but if you fell asleep three times, I don't think that's a real slash. Well, that this means it's calming. That's all.

SPEAKER_06 3:06

It's a very calming movie. Maybe it was a long day, and you know, I get it. There's some movies I get dressed to.

SPEAKER_01 3:12

That good blood-curdling scream to wake you up in the morning.

SPEAKER_05 3:15

I mean, that was basically my experience watching this movie that we're talking about tonight, but we'll get there.

SPEAKER_01 3:20

We have another comment from one of our patrons, Freya, who said this. I watched the subbed version on Prime in the UK, and I'm so glad I did. It's really rare to find a dub which can carry over the raw emotions of the original audio, but it's especially important in found footage dialogue, which needs to be natural and immediate. I thought the performances were pretty great. The ending was a touch info dumpy, but I can get past it to give it a soft slash.

SPEAKER_04 3:41

Well, I you know what? Just another reason we should all live in the UK apparently, so we have access to this with subtitles. Because maybe that would have changed the experience a little bit for us.

SPEAKER_01 3:50

Yeah, our UK listeners are definitely flexing on us tonight. And finally we have a comment from Amber who said, I'm surprised this wasn't a universal slash, but the fact that it wasn't is why I love this podcast so much. I'm not a huge fan of found footage, but I thought this one was fun and borderline nerve-wracking in some scenes. That sounds like a slash to me, Amber.

SPEAKER_05 4:07

Oh, I'm so glad you can appreciate the diversity of our show. At least someone appreciates it when Ryan balances us out.

SPEAKER_01 4:14

And that's our follow-up.

SPEAKER_05 4:16

Well, when last we saw this franchise, a young Tommy Jarvis and his older sister Trish put an end to Jason Voorhees' reign of terror that spanned nearly a week in the summer of 1984. This week's film picks up five years later and follows a now 17-year-old Tommy struggling to cope with the trauma of that night. This week we're talking about Friday the 13th, a new beginning. Who's seen this one before? He definitely didn't seem 17, I will just say that. Okay, look, it's a weird fucky timeline, okay? But for sure, this movie allegedly takes place in like 1989.

SPEAKER_01 4:47

Yeah, I don't know about that.

SPEAKER_06 4:48

It be what it be though. So Mac inspired me a while ago to like go through all of these. So recently, I feel like it was when I messed my backup back in January. But I had my feet up, I had my work laptop, and I had all the Friday the 13ths, and I got through this one, and I think yeah, I went I went to Manhattan with uh with Jason, so that was part where I freaking stopped.

SPEAKER_04 5:11

That is right after where I stopped. I made it through part seven, I think called it quits at that point. But I watched this well, it must have been just a couple years ago now as part of a binge.

SPEAKER_06 5:22

I think you only did it like last year. No, it was definitely in 2018. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_04 5:28

Yeah, it's been a little, it's been a little bit, but I binged like all those movies within a very short period of time. So I did fully re-watch this one, but uh I had a lot of memory. I just I'll be honest, when you watch seven in a row, you forget which one's which.

SPEAKER_06 5:42

I will say though, this one quickly dropped out of my memory. But as soon as I started playing this and two things happened, I said, I remember the shit out of this movie.

SPEAKER_01 5:50

That's super interesting. Am I the only person here who has never seen this one before?

SPEAKER_06 5:54

Yes, you are.

SPEAKER_01 5:55

All right. Well, quick recap of my relationship with Friday the 13th. Only ever saw Freddy versus Jason. Then I started this podcast with y'all, and since then I've watched, I guess, one, two, three, and four. I enjoyed one and two, three was bad, and this was not four, four was worse, and this is five. So this is my first time watching this. And I guess we're just gonna keep going.

SPEAKER_05 6:16

We actually are gonna keep going. We're gonna get through the entire franchise eventually, but this is one that I've seen like hundreds of times before. Hundreds? This is for some yes, for some reason, this was on so much when I was a kid, more so than I think most other movies in the franchise. And I'm not talking about like an intentional play, but picking it up in the middle of a marathon on TV or my brother has a gigantic VHS horror collection, and uh, the Friday the 13th franchise is the one that was often played there. But while this is by no means my favorite, I actually think the Friday the 13th franchise is strongest in 2, 3, and 4. This still, I think, falls into the column for me in my nostalgia as one of the better ones before we get into Jason going to hell. Now, Paris, what were you expecting going into this?

SPEAKER_01 7:05

I my brain was completely empty. I had no thoughts. I said, you know what? They better be hot, they better be slutty, and they better die.

SPEAKER_06 7:14

That embodies you for sure, those comments.

SPEAKER_01 7:18

I don't ask for a lot from these movies, and sometimes they fail to deliver.

SPEAKER_05 7:21

Did this fail to deliver?

SPEAKER_01 7:23

Uh no, I actually think that uh it was very hot. The teens were maybe sluttier than ever, and so many of them died.

SPEAKER_04 7:29

I I I'll be honest, when when we see the title, you know, part five, a new beginning, uh, it's it's kind of like when you're watching 90s Batman movies where everything like the names don't match what happens in the movie, like Batman and Robin is about like Batgirl joining, or Batman Forever is about Robin joining. So, like this to me, part five of New Beginning, I was like, I is this the one that happens the next one after this, or is this the one I couldn't remember? So I was just expecting another Friday the 13th movie.

SPEAKER_06 7:56

Yeah, I think with that sort of title, you think that there's going to be some addition to the story, some change, some sort of something different than that's what's been going on in the franchise. I guess we'll discover in the second half if they did any of that. But I I don't know what I was expecting. You know, at first I didn't know if I had remembered this or even seen it. I was like, I know I've seen it though. And then there was a few characters that popped up and I said, Yep, I remember this. But I was expecting probably to find this a little bit more entertaining than I did the first time. Like I said, I was multitasking. So I was like, oh, this should be interesting.

SPEAKER_01 8:30

Okay, but wait, it is a new beginning. I had this revelation when I texted Chris because I was like, Is this glasses guy from the old movie? And I just don't remember. She was like, Yeah, that was Corey Feldman, but now he's grown up. And I was like, Oh yeah, and I remember it because at the end of the last one, that child killed Jason and like looked at the camera all spooky as if he was gonna be the next Jason. So this was a new beginning because we're following up on him dealing with that PTSD.

SPEAKER_05 8:54

Absolutely. This feels uh uh Mac, I'm not sure exactly where you're going with the like uh titles mismatching because I do feel like obviously final chapter wasn't the final chapter. This makes sense for the title, and so does the next one too. And the one after that.

SPEAKER_04 9:09

It it does, but also this title works for the next movie.

SPEAKER_05 9:12

Oh, yeah, that is very true. I think it works less, especially with the revelations of what actually goes on in this movie. I think the next movie makes way more sense for its title.

SPEAKER_06 9:21

So while watching this movie, I was surprised at how off guard I was. There are certain moments that just I turned around, I was like, oh, I wasn't expecting that, even though I had seen this, even though it kind of leads up to it. But I will admit the jump scares kept me entertained throughout and just kind of kept me in the loop. It was almost like jump scare, and it held me like my attention long enough where I feel like it would have dropped off normally.

SPEAKER_04 9:44

We had such a different experience watching this movie. We kind of mentioned it earlier because people seen this before in a binge. Like I forgot which one it was in the series, but as soon as we start watching it, it's very memorable. So as soon as you start watching it, like it just comes right back exactly which one this is and what happens in it. But I just don't feel like it it prompts you to pay a lot of attention to watching it. And I think this is one of those folding the laundry kind of movies where it honestly it's meant for like eating popcorn and joking with your friends while you watch it. Like it it doesn't require that level of like just a high level of investment at all.

SPEAKER_01 10:15

I totally agree, Mac. I've never heard a laundry folding movie before, but this felt very that. And I say that as somebody who gave this movie my full attention, and I was kind of like, does this movie need my full attention? They're not really doing much. I also felt like I was very happy that they kind of went back to the standard formula of hot teens being slutty and getting killed. Because we kind of drifted away from that for a while, and I was like, Friday the 13th, you had one job. Just do that one thing, that's all you gotta do. Uh, but while I was watching this, I also texted Chris and I was like, is this literally child's play three? Because we get like a grown-up child who's dealing with trauma from a previous experience with the antagonist who goes to like a halfway house reform military camp mental home and then is traumatized and meets a young black boy and befriends him. I don't know which one came out first, but it was giving very much the same.

SPEAKER_05 11:09

You're you're on the nose about that for sure. So Child's Play 3 came out in 1991, so many years after this. So I would say this is not Child's Play 3. Well, look at that. Something that Friday the 13th didn't copy off of. For once. I was really looking forward to getting more text from you while you're watching this, Paris, because this movie stands out so much in the franchise. Again, not because it was my favorite, but because it's one of the ones that I remember the most clearly. I feel like this has a really simple plot. And so do other Friday the 13th movies, but I feel like in those, you're almost expected to be caught up more in the relationships and dynamics of some of the characters. Whereas this one really just presents you with a location, a couple people, you know what their relationships are, there's nothing really special there, and then it tries to just take you through a very, very simple progression through, okay, here is Jason and here are kills, and here we go again. But one of the things that obviously stands out is the way they deviate from previous Friday the 13th movies. So, Paris, I have to know, were you surprised at all in this?

SPEAKER_01 12:19

By what?

SPEAKER_05 12:20

What turns out to be the actual truth of the movie?

SPEAKER_01 12:23

I I don't think so because by then I had just kind of given up on figuring out or caring. So when it happened, I said, Oh, sure. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 12:32

Okay. So watching this for the hundredth and some odd time, this felt more and more like, oh wow, yeah. Now that I watched this as an adult on a better TV and great quality, it's very apparent that what direction some of these things are going in. But I wondered, how did I not know this at as a kid when I first saw this? And I have to attribute that to just pure technology. I think to get this experience, you have to have never seen it before, and you had to watch it on like a really shitty TV to have any kind of surprise from this movie.

SPEAKER_01 13:03

I would love an explanation for that in the second half. Because I don't think I have any idea what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_06 13:09

Yeah, I mean, I think I do, but I uh I was surprised, so.

SPEAKER_04 13:13

I I was not surprised. In fact, the whole new beginning aspect of this film is is what disappointed me the most because I know why we were attempting this, but the execution here was completely lackluster. So there were plenty of like red herrings throughout this movie. Basically, this movie is like an episode of Scooby-Doo where they try to get you to figure out who the bad guy is and they give you 25 different candidates. It's like the movie maybe it's clue. That's what we're watching.

SPEAKER_05 13:39

I don't believe that. It's literally what I text Ryan earlier. She had a little bit of a back and forth. She was originally going to be on this episode, so she had already seen the movie, and we're talking about how to define this movie and not only the franchise and what Friday the 13th tends to do, but specifically this movie. This feels like the most Scooby-Doo of all the Friday the 13th movies.

SPEAKER_01 14:00

So y'all had like several different people you thought it was?

SPEAKER_05 14:03

No, there's no one that there's no one else that I thought it was, but the movie tries to pin you on at least three different people.

SPEAKER_06 14:10

Potentially a fourth. I never knew that that was the intention of this movie, even seeing it this time too. So maybe that's a surprise for me because I didn't know that the there was intention. I thought one character was a character. I didn't know that there was any explanation that needed to be done until the end, obviously.

SPEAKER_04 14:29

But it was almost insanely overt in some cases, where they would say a line very dramatically and nearly make eye contact with the camera and hold for a pause.

SPEAKER_06 14:38

That must have been when I closed my eyes and was folding my panties.

SPEAKER_01 14:43

Not the panties. I don't know. I feel like I thought it was either one character or it's what Alexis was saying, where it was the character was the character, and that was just kind of without explanation. And then in the end, I was like, okay, that works too, whatever.

SPEAKER_04 15:01

I think the movie failed to execute its attempt at red herrings. And I can see that they tried to do this. I can see that they wanted you to think it was possibly several different people. And if you watched this on a projector at very low resolution, maybe it would have worked better. But it wasn't, it like wasn't good enough to make it actually happen. That's why both of you watch this and you think there's two possibilities. When in reality, watching this, it's almost like every other character is like, you know, turns to the camera and goes, maybe I killed him. Like it's just, it's it's so overt.

SPEAKER_05 15:30

So I think one of the things though, when looking at like red herrings of sorts, it's not just that we're looking at a red herring like we would look for in any other movie, right? Like you're not trying to figure out who Ghostface is. Ghostface is like, we're not trying to figure out who Jason is because Jason is Jason and Jason is not Ghostface. But think about how in the original Friday the 13th, we have his mom. And she's like, you know, obviously she's not an ally. She is the killer in that movie, but you think, could Jason have someone else on his side? And I think that's where it comes into play. This movie, right from the very beginning, points out how much more sinister energy lurks in this area, right? And when it lingers on certain characters, when it really tries to point out the aggression of other characters, it's not that it has Derry Main energy where it points out just how shitty all the adults are, but this movie does things that in any other franchise or any other series would make you want to think, huh, what's he got to do with this? And that's where it gets a little bit weird. I think one of the biggest disappointments I have comes in some of its characters. I think some of them are fleshed out pretty well, or at least as well enough as we need. But other characters, oh my gosh, I can't believe how much more annoying I found them now than when I was a kid. For as well as I remember this movie, I forgot how absolutely ridiculous some of them are.

SPEAKER_06 16:52

Yeah, and to me, it was a disappointment that there were so many. Like there were too many characters, I thought, in this movie. There were a lot. Yeah, there were a lot, and none of them really stuck out to me as a main character. They all just, you know, were on the all same, they were all like supporting actors, in my opinion. Like no one rose to the level of, you know, the main character, even our final characters. I didn't get main character energy from those few people that are left.

SPEAKER_01 17:20

I totally agree with that, Alexis. I was disappointed to find out who our final characters were, and I was kind of like, okay, sure. But you're right, like nobody really stood out as being like notable or like super developed and to the point where I wasn't really invested in anybody, which I think I thought at the time was the point. You're not supposed to be too invested in anybody, just give them just enough so that when you die, they're like, oh, okay, that happened. But as a result, I feel like the movie wasn't that scary. I feel like it did not really try to build any suspense. It was just kind of like, here's a conversation we're having. Oh, there's a kill, here's a dialogue, blah, blah, blah. Not even any like music or sound effects to kind of like build tension. It was just like, and now another kill. And I was like, oh, uh, okay. It was very like broad daylight, casual kill, low impact.

SPEAKER_06 18:06

Yeah, and none of the kills seemed risky enough to make it scary. Like you said, the tension wasn't there. And I know we'll talk about the gore later, but I think all that adds to the suspense, the fright factor of this all, and it really wasn't, and you don't really see the antagonist a lot either. So that's where I'm like, okay, I'm not even scared of Jason like I used to be, and in other movies too, where it's a little bit more in your face. Okay, but you did say that you were scared earlier.

SPEAKER_05 18:34

And some jump scares got you.

SPEAKER_06 18:36

Yeah, they they got like a jump scare because like I wasn't expecting because there was no music, and then all of a sudden some character like pops in the corner. You know what I mean? Or I think it was the audio too, is what got me because some was loud, some was not. So I was like up and down all the time. So that might have been it. But I wouldn't say it was a frightening jump scare per se. It was just a shock.

SPEAKER_04 18:57

I I don't think there's a lot of a lot of fear going on in this movie for for the viewer, but I do think you might be triggered by the concept of toilet snakes. That's about it.

SPEAKER_05 19:05

Okay, yeah, that's not a bad point, Mac. There are some things in this movie that are just straight up gross, honestly. And that I think um warrants a level of fright that supersedes any attempt of like violence in this movie. But what I will say that I appreciate most about this movie, and I think I found even a new appreciation for it here, is looking at the direction of this entire franchise. So considering that parts two, three, and four all took place on successive days. So it took almost a week. So we get from like a Friday to a Wednesday. And then looking at the time jump here and look at how we're following the impact those events had on one particular character who only saw a fraction of what happened that entire streak of mayhem. I really applaud this franchise for doing something different. This is, I think, the point where perhaps this is why I think of it fondly, where it stops being completely rinse and repeat and tries to go in a different direction. It's not the best direction. It's not the smartest move, but it's different, and I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_01 20:10

Maybe I have not watched these movies recently enough because this very much felt the same. Uh, I get that it was a new beginning and Jason is dead, but it didn't feel like Jason was dead. I will say Jason felt like he was peaking. It felt like peak Jason. He was tall, he was hot, he was Jason, and I was like, okay, because for a while it was kind of wavering from that one quality. And I guess I can give it originality for inspiring the plot of Child's Play 3 to some extent, but it felt very much just like rinse and repeat.

SPEAKER_04 20:40

This a hundred percent felt like, hey, isn't it time we made some more money off of Friday the 13th?

SPEAKER_06 20:46

Yeah, I'm a mixture on this because I see where it's different, but I also feel like it's very the same. Like it's people being killed, it's not at a camp, but it's very similar to a camp, and people are getting killed. Dynamics are a little bit different in the characters, and the ending to me was what made it original compared to the whole franchise. Maybe very similar to some specific movie in this franchise, but honestly, like I know you guys were talking about it before, and we'll talk about it more in the second half, but it caught me off guard even watching it this time as well. And I was like, oh, I like where this is going. It's not where I thought it would go. And I was pleasantly surprised.

SPEAKER_04 21:24

I found the ending to be, I don't know what the right word is, maybe like lukewarm. I just feel like it was just mediocre enough, just just like lackluster enough that they could have built towards something kind of interesting, but instead it kind of hit one of four possible expectations, and you're just kind of like, all right, I guess that's what you did.

SPEAKER_01 21:42

The ending for me, I think, is where the movie really lost me because we have a sort of reveal, and I was like, fine, who is that? Oh, yeah, him. Okay. And then it seemed like the movie would never end. It was this like long, drawn out cat and mouse that wasn't suspenseful. Or full of tension, and I didn't care about any of them. So it was just kind of like, okay, are we done? And then it ended like three times, and I was like, okay, but actually be done this time. So the ending to me was a flop.

SPEAKER_05 22:11

I actually didn't have any qualms with the ending. It ended in a way that felt not only consistent with the rest of the franchise, but felt consistent in spirit without giving me another girl jump scared by Jason at the very end. You know what I mean? Like we we see we've seen a lot of that in this franchise up until this point. But I think what sold me the most on this movie was the potential of what it could be. Now, this gets into a really interesting spot that kind of almost overlaps and has some common ground with the Halloween franchise and the direction that franchise was going to go before it made some decisions to return to a certain course of action. And we'll unpack all that in the second half of this episode. But I found the inning to be satisfying. And it sounds like there are some mixed opinions on this movie so far. So let's go ahead and make our way to our ratings. Now, before we actually score this movie, Alexis, how many people died?

SPEAKER_06 23:05

We have 22 deaths in this movie. And this movie had more deaths than any previous installment of the franchise. It's a high body count, but what about the animal report? There is a cute little bunny, but we are good. No deaths of any bunnies or any other kind of animals. We are all good in the hood.

SPEAKER_05 23:21

Well, let's go ahead and get into our ratings then. Friday the 13th, a new beginning from 1985. Was it a hacker or slash?

SPEAKER_06 23:28

I thought the characters were shallow. You know, there's no storyline really with Tommy. I mean, there's there's no way for him any sort of empathy, I feel like, with him, which I feel like you should do with your character, especially one who's gone through a very traumatic experience. And I feel like that would make me feel more for him, especially. But all of them, like I said, they're all kind of just, you know, the supporting actors and actresses in this. So with that, I don't see Jason a lot in this movie. There's not a lot of core. The kills, there's plenty of those, but most of those are off-screen, and I'm just disappointed in that. But I don't know. I didn't think it was a total waste of time either. And I think the ending is what saved it for me because I was like, uh-oh, I like this. And then I was like, oh, and I like this again. So I didn't think it was the greatest ending, but it did save this movie for me. So I'm gonna give it a slash.

SPEAKER_01 24:22

I will reflect Alexis's takes in complete inverse. I thought the movie was a hack. It's weird because I said that all these movies have to do is show a bunch of hot, slutty teens getting killed. And it almost did that. Just when you thought there weren't enough cast members, they were just like, here's a couple other slutty teens completely unrelated to the movie at all, but we're gonna get the kill for them too. They really padded the body count to get to that 22 with just rando filler characters. But the thing is, like Alexis was saying, we didn't see so many of the kills. I don't know what happened. It feel like it felt like I was watching a censored version of this movie because every time we were about to get a kill, it cut away and gave us almost nothing. The gore score was sad. For 22 deaths, we saw almost nothing at all. And there were some really creative kills, so I would have loved to have seen how those played out instead of cutting away. I will say I have almost nothing nice to say about this movie. It's my it's not my least favorite Friday the 13th. That still goes to the one that had the biker gang, which I think was three, but it's definitely a hack for me. It felt just like a filler, let's just make the movie to make the movie kind of movie. And I'm not here for that. Don't waste my time with that. The ending lasted way too long. There was a reveal that I couldn't give less of a shit about. It felt like they were like, oh, and here's something that's been true all along, but you have no reason to believe that this could be true. You kind of just have to take our word for it, and then that's gonna be the story. And I was like, whatever, you know what? Just fuck off. And then the movie wouldn't fuck off. It wouldn't end. And then finally it did end, and I said, Thank God, it's a hack.

SPEAKER_04 25:50

Well, interesting take on that. I mean, I feel like you both had a good bit of feelings about it, but uh I'm I'm I I've mentioned it before, I'm a little bit more lukewarm here. So I think if you're up for a mediocre slasher to goof off to while watching, this is a movie for you. It's not totally trash. So if you choose to binge Friday the 13th movies, don't skip it. But this isn't like a high intellect installment. Are any of them though? It's Friday the 13th. This is a plain and simple 80s cash grab slasher meant to keep the rights going just another year and make money off yet another crowd of fans and casuals. I'm like, it's it's for sure softly a slash because it delivers some kills, like 22 kills, uh, and it features a hockey mask and a machete, but it swings towards the hackable zone with its completely predictable mediocrity. So soft slash at best.

SPEAKER_05 26:35

At best, but what is it though?

SPEAKER_04 26:37

It tried its hardest and it got to the soft slash territory, but it has moments of being in hack territory. But I think overall you can give it some you can give it some positive credit as a slash.

SPEAKER_05 26:46

Okay, so Mac, you you towed the line there in a couple different areas, and I don't think I'm gonna be nearly as controversial as either of you. I think the way that Paris reflects Alexis, I then reflect Paris because he has pretty much nothing nice to say about the movie. I certainly have some gripes, but nothing that would even really stick it into hack territory. This movie's a slash because it's inoffensive to me. It is a Friday the 13th movie. I'm already not gonna be super invested. I remember it because of its first major kill of the movie. But what I remember most from this movie isn't even just that. It is the opening scene that we get with Corey Feldman and how absolutely stellar the details are in Jason when uh when we see him again for the first time. I absolutely fucking love it. And I actually have a few figures from the Friday the 13th franchise, and I have I think two from this movie. This movie has some of the best poster artwork, and I just want to say that it has nothing to do with the score, even though the fucking mask has nothing to do, like you never see that mask in this franchise. But overall, this movie is the point where we've said goodbye to the continuous streak of violence. We've moved on in a different direction, and I think this is a step in the right direction. I think it goes downhill from here. I think the next movie is still pretty decent before I think it takes a sharp decline, at least from what I recall liking and disliking. This movie doesn't do enough to piss me off. This movie's a slash. Fuck it, it's a good time. And with that, Friday the 13th, a new beginning has earned three slashes and one hack. Now, you can find this movie streaming on Paramount Plus, so go check it out and then join us in the second half so we can unpack this mystery together. We'll see you in a bit.

SPEAKER_03 29:19

Swapping up the culprits until the proper authoritizers arrive.

SPEAKER_00 29:23

What's the point of having a nice suburban home if you're constantly dealing with the sound of teenagers fucking on your lawn? It's disrespectful, it's noisy, and it's ruining your quality of life. Say bye-bye to those raging hormone harlots with neighborhood crops.

SPEAKER_05 29:59

Now we have a lot to get to here, but before we get into the specifics of our ratings, we have the matter of gore to get to. So, Alexis, what's the gore score for this movie? I put low.

SPEAKER_06 30:07

There's literally for 22 deaths. I mean, I was expecting not a bloodbath in this, but I was expecting like very like funny antics with the gore and blood and you know, all that sort of stuff, but there wasn't. There was just when that medic lift up the sheet, I think it was Joey's body, and you got to see what happened. But I was like, all right, I thought he was only like slashed once. I don't understand how there's like all of those slashes and then his arms off.

SPEAKER_05 30:33

No, I mean the guy was actually hitting his body several times with the axe. Like he kept going.

SPEAKER_04 30:39

And we saw earlier and you know, right before that, that he has no idea how to chop wood and just like hacks at it slash after slash. So he he obviously didn't know how to get a nice firm chop all the way through.

SPEAKER_05 30:50

I've always felt really bad for Joey. Now there are two deaths in the Friday the 13th franchise that have always made me really fucking sad. One, there's a hitchhiker who dies when uh Jason puts a machete through her throat while she's eating a banana, and she's uh a little bit of a more full woman, and it just felt like uh some it just felt tasteless. You know what I mean? Like it felt like they were othering her for that. And then Joey's death. Those are the two in this entire franchise that just like leave a bad taste in my mouth.

SPEAKER_06 31:20

Yeah, his was pretty shocking because I wasn't expecting that. I mean, I thought Jason was killing everyone in this movie. I didn't think this dude would be killing everyone. I was like very, it was very that was one of the, you know, jump scares, as I would like to call it.

SPEAKER_05 31:35

Well, there's a little bit of Jason in all of us, isn't there?

SPEAKER_01 31:37

The little bit of Jason in me was also ready to kill Joey the moment he started on his bullshit, Chris. I hated him so much. He reminded me of Franklin from Texas Chainsaw Massacre and that he would not shut the fuck up or get off the screen.

SPEAKER_05 31:49

There is clearly a like goodness about Joey. Franklin was annoying as shit because he was just whiny, he was a little bit of a buffoon, he was just uh mocking everybody, whereas Joey was just trying to make friends and trying to be helpful. And while his actions were super were certainly perceived as annoying by people for sure, he didn't deserve death.

SPEAKER_06 32:15

But Paris, was Joey your favorite death?

SPEAKER_01 32:19

Honestly, no. I was just glad that it happened so that we could move on. My favorite death has to go to Eddie because one, I don't think that would kill anybody, being like bondaged to a tree like that. But it was also like a really good visual because then they cut to like a really good shot of him, and like I'm looking at the screenshot now and like very much not giving death, but it is giving hot. It was kind of a sexy way to die, and I love that. Death by ball gag. Yeah, kind of. There it is. I do have a runner-up though, and that is my girl Lana, who may or may not be me in another life, another timeline. I feel like she could be me or my sister or something. But just like seeing her get killed after eating cocaine, not actually rubbing it on your gums for fast absorption into the bloodstream, but actually just licking it with her tongue and swallowing it. That was fun.

SPEAKER_06 33:05

And that was Coke Facts with Paris.

SPEAKER_01 33:08

Yeah. Pro tip: rub it on your gums, not your tongue.

SPEAKER_06 33:12

Probably had to do something with the pinky. So it's funny you mentioned Lana. So the actress who played Lana, Rebecca Wood, had a lot of fun filming her death scene to the point where she actually walked around the street with that axe glued to her head, acting like a zombie and causing people passing by to freak out, not knowing exactly that they were filming. And Rebecca stated that she had a lot of fun and laughs doing so.

SPEAKER_01 33:35

Oh my god, I love that for her. I could tell that she was like having fun with that role in the way that she kind of just casually delivered a lot of those different lines. I was like, she's not here for a long time and she knows that.

SPEAKER_06 33:45

Yeah, well, she was very clever going to the restaurant. I was like, is the guy's girlfriend inside or is she pretending to be that person? I was very confused for a second.

SPEAKER_01 33:54

She was also way too hot for him, which is why it was confusing.

unknown 33:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:59

I have a very different favorite kill. Mine has to do with motorcycle safety, you know, make sure you don't lose your head and all that. Um, I don't know why it's such a satisfying little lop, but when we lose Junior, it's just like, thank you, thank you. Because the character, I mean, honestly, the character kind of goes along with Joey, where I feel like they're kind of poking fun at people that didn't need to be poked at. But he in this movie is a huge jerk and like started that fight for no reason. It was really ridiculous. He was picking on somebody who was apparently mentally ill. So neither here nor there. I think the favorite part is just that he was on the bike when it happened, and then we get that nice, satisfying, you know, Kerplunk in the background.

SPEAKER_05 34:38

Ooh, yeah, that was a good one, Mac. And honestly, he's certainly one of the worst parts of this movie for me. But I think my favorite death is actually going to be Vinny with a road flare to the mouth. Only because I couldn't fucking stand that guy. I didn't like his bullshit song when he got back in the car. But the road flare into the mouth did remind me of sorority row. I'm like, ah, look at these great callbacks to days gone by.

SPEAKER_01 35:04

For some reason, I was like, wow, what an original kill. I've never seen that before, even though I have seen that before. You've just reminded me. You truly have. We also saw it later in Halloween.

SPEAKER_06 35:13

So my favorite death is going to be Robins. I thought it was very interesting how she was being choked but also stabbed from underneath too. I was like, wow, this reach for Jason is pretty awesome if he can reach up and stab at the same time. Very, very awesome kill.

SPEAKER_04 35:31

Look, he's a big dude. He can he can choke you while he stabs you.

SPEAKER_06 35:34

Sounds kinda hot.

SPEAKER_05 35:35

I don't know why. You would love Dead by Daylight, where Michael Myers kills you by choking you, lifting you up, and stabbing you several times with a big long knife. There's something scarier about that. I do want to give a shout-out though to some of the lesser-known kills. Some of them obviously happened off-screen, but looking at Anita's death, I really really bummed me out. I really did not want to see her and Demon go. But to know how swiftly she was taken, and then for him to just open the door to the outhouse and see her laying there, it was a literal oh shit moment while he's in the shitter, and that's another one of those moments that stands out to me. But I also want to give a shout-out back to Tina, who had the shears in her eyes, a la the burning.

SPEAKER_06 36:20

I love that. And Paris, I know you and I are not fans of the off-screen desk. So this installment actually has more death scenes executed off-screen, which is three total, than any other in the Friday the 13th franchise.

SPEAKER_01 36:34

You hate to see it.

SPEAKER_06 36:36

I hate to see it too. I really hate to see it. And I think a lot of things were edited out too that I think would have added a little bit more flair to this movie, including Violet's death. So Violet was originally supposed to be killed by being stabbed in the crotch with the machete. Not sure if I would want that added while she's exercising. But obviously, the producers found this to be a little tasteless, and that was edited out the movie. And also, Ethel's death scene was originally supposed to be a little bit more graphic. And honestly, it's probably gonna be one of my favorite visuals because I love how that machete comes through the window, and I just love that first person perspective. But there was a prosthetic head made that showed the machete being forcefully destroying her face. Well, this was obviously too graphic by the NPAA, and obviously it was removed too. I would have loved that though. I would have loved that.

SPEAKER_04 37:29

That would have been like an integral part of the movie, I feel like.

SPEAKER_06 37:32

It really would probably have been a lot more memorable. But I just love that shot. That's really definitely a favorite visual of mine, is just this switch perspective and it coming through the window from Ethel. Because I feel like a lot of the Friday the 13th movies, you get this like kind of duality in Halloween, you get a lot of Michael Myers from his perspective. So I like that. And I don't know, something about that window. Because I'm gonna be honest, there wasn't a lot of things visually that I liked about this movie, but that's definitely one of them.

SPEAKER_01 38:01

I'm gonna say my favorite visual of this film was the hotness of the people, the teens, the victims. They were all very hot this time around, including Glasses Guy, which at first I was like, get out of here, Glasses Guy. I don't remember you from before. And then he took a shirt off and I was like, Well, you can stay, I suppose. He was real sweaty and all ripped, and I said, Okay, good. Can't wait to see you die. Spoiler section, he didn't die. Uh, but we also got lots of great boobs, as you will hear in Ryan's boob ranking that you'll hear later in the B-sides. Uh, but generally all around, a bunch of hotties. There were really only a couple of duds, and I think they were there to kind of make everyone else hotter in contrast. So I appreciated that, if nothing else, visually from this movie.

SPEAKER_04 38:42

I'm gonna pick a strange one because I don't think there's anything particularly appealing about the movie visually, but I think when we get to the van life moment and to the outhouse, they were very visceral, and and I like that. I like when you feel like someone in a van is legit living in that van. It felt very shag and wagon, and then when we get to the shitter, it felt like that's a real shitter that exists somewhere in the middle of nowhere, and it felt dirty.

SPEAKER_01 39:07

Stop saying shitter.

SPEAKER_06 39:09

It definitely felt dirty. I was like, where are we and when like where and when is this going on? Like, I was so confused. And why?

SPEAKER_04 39:17

When it's getting throttled and it like shakes and he's like losing it. Love that. Again, feels very real, just like a tin crap house. There's just it's amazing. And I don't know why, but I really wish they had done more with that. I feel like that could have been a much more interesting scene, could have been played out longer, a little cat and mouse game in an outhouse.

SPEAKER_01 39:37

I couldn't disagree more, Mac. I think we needed 100% less of all of that. In fact, you could cut out both of those characters from the movie entirely, and no one would bat an eye. It would be a completely Caucasian movie at that point.

unknown 39:49

Sure.

SPEAKER_05 39:49

I don't know about that because I absolutely loved seeing Reggie and his brother Demon. It just felt so wholesome. And I think what that added there, especially with Reggie's grandfather, is the wholesomeness and like the these people don't deserve it. I think sometimes you get into Friday the 13th, and some of these people they deserve it. Some of them are collateral damage. I would argue that the Jarvis mom did not deserve to go. But looking at these two people who are so far away from everything that's going on, they didn't deserve to get wrecked the way they did. But I think my favorite visual actually starts off with the very beginning of this movie, and it actually even goes into my favorite scene. It's the piece that ties us to the past. It's a dream, a nightmare of young Tommy dreaming or having a nightmare about seeing Jason come back to life. And he approaches the grave, he wants to make sure he's dead, and two guys are there to dig him up. Ironically, it takes us into the next movie. But it was specifically the effects work of Jason when he comes back to life. Because I tell you this, Friday the 13th as a franchise does a lot of things wrong, but one thing they do absolutely right is the continuity for me of Jason Voorhees as it goes on. And I say that and it's probably gonna sound really weird at first because he looks very different movie to movie, but I mean the mask. And looking at his mask, the worms coming out, looking at the incredible detail of his head wounds and then the actual part where Chris had the hatchet into his mask, absolutely fucking loved it. For a movie that moves on in his chronology, for a movie that bids farewell to the week uh near week of chaos and jumps forward into the future, I loved this moment as a send-off.

SPEAKER_04 41:34

I could I could I could absolutely see that. And I think it is really interesting because I think we can look at this having seen the next movie, but if you were in that moment and you didn't know what was happening, it does kind of feel nice to see a little bit of real Jason, a little bit of I mean, I know it's Dream Jason at this point, but it's it's closer to the real Jason because we get a fake Jason this entire movie, right? So it's like you have a minute where this is really a Friday the 13th movie.

SPEAKER_06 41:57

Yeah, but I was missing my recap in the beginning because I'm like, it's been it's been a while and I didn't get my recap and I'm so confused.

SPEAKER_01 42:04

I agree, Alexis. I did have to text Chris for a recap because it was necessary.

SPEAKER_04 42:09

But it kind of was our recap because it was letting us know Jason's dead and he killed him. Remember? It was like just a really mini recap.

SPEAKER_06 42:16

Well, yeah, of course. He's always dead, kills people.

SPEAKER_01 42:19

Yeah, has he has he actually ever been alive? From the jump, he was a swamp boy.

SPEAKER_05 42:23

In the next movies is when he truly becomes like a distinctly supernatural thing. But in the in the sequel, he's just a guy in the woods, and there's this maybe expectation or understanding that he didn't actually drown.

SPEAKER_04 42:36

Sure. Wow. I would love to see a Friday the 13th like complete series remake where there's no Jason, where he doesn't actually exist the entire series.

SPEAKER_06 42:44

And what do you presume are killing these people?

SPEAKER_04 42:47

Just other human beings who are saying they're Jason and wearing the mask.

SPEAKER_06 42:50

Oh, so like Saw.

SPEAKER_04 42:51

Kind of like Saw.

SPEAKER_05 42:52

You mean more like Scream? Ghostface. Like Scream, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:56

Kind of like Scream. Or like Friday the 13th one, where it's Mrs. Voyage.

SPEAKER_04 43:00

Exactly.

SPEAKER_05 43:01

She wasn't even wearing a mask.

SPEAKER_04 43:02

So like part one and part five, but for 10 movies.

SPEAKER_06 43:06

That works. That works. Something like that. My favorite scene is when Reggie and Tommy meet. And Reggie drops the fake spider trying to scare, or not really scare, but just, you know, make friends with Tommy. And then Tommy turns around in a scary mask that he made. And then they start talking about that. So why I love this scene is because I feel like Reggie was trying to be fun and playful. And I just got this very like weird vibe from Tommy then. Not that I ever thought that he was going to be the killer, but it was just this like he just seemed out of it. That's when I was like, he's unhinged a little bit because he came at this little kid real hard with the mask. I was like, I think it was a little much, but I like that dynamic between the two. I like that setup scene.

SPEAKER_04 43:52

My favorite scene is right before that. And that's when Tommy is getting in processed. This is set supposedly in this like mental health hazard. Halfway house getting people ready. And it's the only moment of the entire film that actually is related to that in any way. And for a second, you think I don't even remember her name, but you you think the one character is gonna like make fun of him. But in reality, she's just asking like about his history and what he's gone through and what have they tried to help him out with. But after that, the setting is completely pointless. It doesn't matter. They're just near the woods, and that that's kind of sad because I feel like they could have done more with that, but they didn't. They just like gave us a little blurb. There's a poster in the background that says stop the family cycle or family history or whatever that is, talking about abuse. And then after this, everyone's just gonna start dying.

SPEAKER_01 44:32

And die they do Mac. My favorite scene is also right after that, and it's when we have Ethel showing up on the spot and really pulling focus. She said, This movie's not about me, but it is now. That actress really gave it a character, she did so much. Her profanity was so beautifully dispersed throughout her lines. And I was just like, I don't know who this woman is or what she has to do with any of this, but she's mad about kids fucking on her lawn. And I don't blame her. The moment she showed up on the screen, I was like, I am team Ethel, no matter what happens in this film. And I thought it was like sort of a light comedy moment that kind of made this movie a little bit more entertaining when I wasn't sure like what the tone was supposed to be. She kind of came in and was like, this is the tone, at least for this scene.

SPEAKER_05 45:15

It was a particular tone to set. I think her entrance and her balance with Junior as the attempted comedy relief was certainly a decision to make for the characters in this movie. I absolutely hated Junior. Oh yeah, Junior was garbage. He reminded me of the idea of like taking cousin Eddie from Christmas vacation and turning him up to like a thousand. And then you have Junior. It was absolutely absurd. But I think some of the moments she had showing up there, complaining about the kids, it that's what really set me off into the Scooby-Doo energy. That's what really set me off into the these meddling kids and their dang dog. While I had moments of finding her funny, though, the rest of the characters felt like a solid balance of developed just enough for me to not ex have to be expecting myself to care. I knew what I felt I needed to know about them. I think the only one I would have been curious to know more about would be Violet. I think we see her listening to her own music, vibing out, having a good time in her room, and not really interacting with many other people there. But I think the obvious character that we need to spend some time on is Roy. So you weren't surprised at all that he was Jason Paris?

SPEAKER_01 46:27

Who's Roy?

SPEAKER_05 46:28

Jason.

SPEAKER_01 46:29

Oh, the one who was a cop and he was Joey's dad?

SPEAKER_05 46:32

Paramedic, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:33

Here's the thing. I wasn't not surprised. It was just at that point I couldn't give less of a shit. And I was like, okay, and then and they literally showed his face after he had died, and I was like, oh, is that that cop from before? And then like later they explained it in explicit detail, and I was like, okay, so it was that guy from before. Cool, moving on. I felt nothing about that.

SPEAKER_05 46:51

Okay. Maybe I need to find someone else who like really enjoys slashers and wouldn't be as turned off by at many points in this movie as you were. Because I want to know what someone's modern experience is who hasn't seen this movie before and watches this and has that realization for the first time.

SPEAKER_01 47:07

It felt like it was not earned. It felt like it was told, it was random, and it was out of nowhere.

SPEAKER_06 47:12

I disagree. So, Chris, do you want someone like that? I'll give that person to you because I felt like seeing this and getting that was like when I watched a first episode of Scooby-Doo, I was like, holy shit, I was not expecting that person. But I wasn't expecting anyone. I really thought this was Jason. I like I said it was a light watch, so I wasn't looking for clues like that. The only thing that threw me off and I had in my notes was I don't get why he's here. Like, is he following, you know, Tommy? Is he just attracted to this area? Is this place by the camp? Like, I I don't know. So I was curious on that part, but I definitely didn't think that it was someone at all.

SPEAKER_05 47:53

So for sure it was obvious that he has something going on because of a the lengths they go to to not only film his reaction to seeing Joey's body, but B, the way the camera lingers on him and the way he pulls focus again later talking to the cop and the way that he just seems to be around. There's another couple moments there though where you see Jason, a the deformities on the back of his head, he's completely smooth skinned now, so that's a weird thing, uh aside from even the noticeable differences to his frame, his stature, his mask, etc. But there's a point where lightning flashes and you can see Jason's face light up and he has crystal clear blue eyes. What the fuck? That's not Jason. Jason doesn't have baby blue eyes.

SPEAKER_01 48:38

I was confused by that. Yeah. But I was just like, it's zombie Jason, whatever.

SPEAKER_05 48:42

But then of course you also see the paramedics like uh ambulance hearse, and it there's only only one of the paramedics who's dead. So it's like, okay, if somebody was going into this who had a hunch that it wasn't Jason, I feel like they make it super fucking obvious that it's Roy.

SPEAKER_04 48:57

Yeah, it's it's so clearly overt. Those lingering shots you mentioned, Chris. I when I went through this the second time and I remembered most of it, I legit thought to myself, maybe it wasn't him. Maybe it's so obvious because it was actually Tommy the whole time, and I'm just remembering this wrong because it seemed it seemed to be like too much the entire time. Every time I showed him, it was like direct eye contact. And him being like, What? I didn't kill anyone. I don't know what you're talking about. I'm not gonna do anything wrong. And I was like, Oh, I got this wrong. They're making it so obvious because it's not him. But no, it was so obvious because it was him, and I think they had to do this. In fact, I I know they had to do this, um, because the original plan was for Tommy to be the killer all along. That was that was the original plan, but then they had to change it for reasons, and instead we get this killer, and just like you, Paris, they had to like at the very end remind people who he was because people are like, Who the hell is this guy? That is apparently pretending to be Jason, and they're like, Oh, Memba, paramedic, Memba.

SPEAKER_01 49:50

I also thought he was a cop. I didn't even get that he was a paramedic. He was such a throwaway character that his profession wasn't even clear to me.

SPEAKER_06 49:56

He definitely wasn't dressed like the sheriff was.

SPEAKER_01 49:59

That's a whole bit of carrying the body, you know? It's a small town, the cops have to do a lot.

SPEAKER_05 50:06

Those cops touch a single damn body.

SPEAKER_04 50:08

Hey, I I have known a cop who also doubled, um, I could say tripled. He had three jobs, firefighter and DMT. So I I would believe it.

SPEAKER_01 50:15

Okay, I'm looking it up, and he did have like a little hospice thing on his sleeve, but that collared shirt with the gold pin very much just gave me cop. And I I realize now that was on me.

SPEAKER_05 50:24

Wow, the level of self-ownership and accountability. It's um it's unexpected.

SPEAKER_01 50:28

Okay, but wait, can we talk about like first of all, how did his son end up in this facility? And also, nobody in this facility was particularly mentally ill. Like Violet, her only illness was being goth and using like black eyeshadow as blush, which like don't confine somebody for that. And then two of them were just in there because they like to fuck in their teens. Like, what?

SPEAKER_05 50:48

So here's the other element of this, Paris. We don't know everything that's going on with these characters. You know what I mean? Like, yes, we know that they have sex. Yes, we know that Violet likes alternative music, etc. But we don't know what other things go on inside these people because we don't spend a lot of time with them. And it's very clear that that Joey is neurodivergent. Like, it's very obvious, isn't it? This isn't like a um a one size fits all. Like, this is clearly this guy wanting to give people a chance to re-enter society after because uh really at this point, like Tommy was no longer a ward of the state. So instead of these people just being out on their own, he wants to take people in and help them and help give them a good start. It's not like this is a mental health facility by any means.

SPEAKER_01 51:36

It's like a rehab spot.

SPEAKER_05 51:38

Kind of, but it's all-encompassing, right? But we also like it, I just obviously it's the 80s and the production of the film is super shallow, a hundred percent. But I think looking back on this now, we can't just say what these people did or did not have.

SPEAKER_04 51:53

Also, you can't see mental illness.

SPEAKER_01 51:55

So it felt like they were trying to make us see it, and they were like, see, these two are here because they're sluts, and these this one's here because she's got that that's what it felt like to me. It felt like they were trying to be like, these people are weird and they should be in this facility, but like they weren't that weird.

SPEAKER_04 52:08

I think I think Joey even mentions that he's an orphan. Does he does he not?

SPEAKER_05 52:12

Well, it is mentioned about him that his mother died. It was it's Matt talking about him and how Joey was a really good kid. He helped, he always wanted to help people. His mother died when he was young. His father was never around, nobody knows who he is.

SPEAKER_04 52:25

And it's clear why his father's nearby Paris. It's clear to me. It's clear that he either just like lives in that area and that's why Joey's there, or right, he has some shame and some guilt, and so he wants to be nearby because of that guilt. Probably for abandoning him or for letting him be taken away.

SPEAKER_06 52:42

Well the characters got deep, didn't they? I know I mentioned in my reading, like I just thought that they I don't I don't know. I feel like at least Tommy should have been given a little bit more of a character arc. I mean, no one had one, so I didn't know who to follow in this, and I don't know if maybe that was the purpose. But I feel like in the Friday the 13s, they're all not so leveled. There's like some, there's like a final girl, and you know she's gonna be it. She makes decisions. I don't know what decisions Pam was making, other than you go to bed at this time, you stay in your room. Like, to me, like I said, there wasn't enough given for any of these characters for any of them to stand out at all.

SPEAKER_04 53:23

This truly feels like showing up to work and it's the B team working, and then you.

SPEAKER_05 53:27

Okay, what I would say is just like Lori Strode was sidelined in Halloween 2 because she is on her own journey of recovery, so is Tommy. I don't think that he had to be present front and center. Like he is the anchor, right? Like he's the thing that like ties us to the rest of the franchise in the lore. But I didn't mind him taking a back seat. I didn't mind him uh not being able to confront Jason completely on his own. I actually like this because it sets up his arc for the rest of the franchise even better.

SPEAKER_04 53:58

The whole setup where we get Tommy going through his trauma, trying to heal, trying to meet make new friends, but then also like disappearing and maybe he's the killer, maybe he's not, and then oops, we actually see him with Jason, so we know he's not the killer. Finally, it's revealed that it's somebody else. Because it could have been him the whole time. This like whole new beginning thing was legit the worst part of the movie for me because I feel like they should have taken a really strong, recognizable stance here and picked a character that had really good motivations to continue being Jason. And they tried, they tried with Tommy Jarvis, but I just it didn't, it didn't work for me one bit. And I almost wish that at the end it had been revealed that Jason did not die and he didn't need to be brought back in part six. I think it would have been much better to like not have this random paramedic character like thrown in and then oh, at the very, very end, is Tommy dreaming? No, he's not dreaming. No, it's actually him. He's gonna like start going crazy and stuff, and now he's gonna become Jason. Just like give me real Jason at the very end.

SPEAKER_06 54:52

Kind of like what was that movie with um John Cusack where Identity. Yes, and there were like multiple killers, but it was actually in this person's head, and you're like, holy crap, and it was their all their personalities. Yeah, it was like something like that, or some take like that. I I would that would make this an incredible slash, I think.

SPEAKER_04 55:12

The best thing for me would be what we get Tommy picking up the knife to stab somebody, and real Jason showing up and stabbing him through the neck. That would have been the ultimate end for me. Like, no, I am still here, and now you're ready for part six.

SPEAKER_01 55:24

I'm still here. You know, Mac, I wasn't mad that the paramedic was Joey's dad and that was his motivation. I feel like as a motivation, I can get into that. I just felt like it was an afterthought. Give me like a couple touch points throughout the story to make that make sense, and then it's a reveal, and I'm like, oh shit, it was him all along. Gag. But it felt like we kind of did this Tommy saw Jason die, look directly into the camera at the end of the last movie, and is the new beginning for the Jason Killer, only to then go through an entire other full movie where nothing happens, and then at the very end of that, he's like, Okay, maybe now I'll be the new Jason Killer. And I'm just like, at this point, why? You're hot, you can do so many other things. You're you your trauma doesn't even seem like you're really plagued by it now that you've really tackled it. This is called aversion therapy. Exposure therapy? Which one is it? Prolonged exposure. Prolonged exposure therapy. You killed it. You killed the thing from your trauma. You saw it happen with your own eyes. Move on.

SPEAKER_05 56:18

Well, there's a reason why prolonged exposure therapy isn't always considered to be the most effective therapy.

SPEAKER_01 56:23

It's like get a job.

SPEAKER_05 56:24

That doesn't do much either, Paris.

SPEAKER_01 56:27

I did like his little tricky throw a chair out the window, and then Pam comes in and then he's behind the door. I was like, okay, he'll make a good killer yet. Or not. Maybe we'll see. The best part of this movie for me is the scene that we get with Violet dancing in her bedroom because it is so bizarre, so random, and just like such a character choice from that actress for her to be doing this like robot techno crumpy kind of dance. And I don't even know if that's the kind of music that that character would be listening to at this time, but it really resonated with me to the point where I was laughing out loud and I was vibing with it. And I said, you know what, Violet, you better work before you die. You better work.

SPEAKER_06 57:03

Uh, she was definitely listening to Screamo, okay, let's put it that way.

SPEAKER_04 57:07

Uh she obviously would have been listening to Stevie Nicks just saying.

SPEAKER_06 57:11

That like deep electro pop, and she's like, That is not Stevie Nick's vibe hair.

SPEAKER_01 57:16

Yeah, no, not not Stevie Nicks necessarily, but like, I don't know, Marilyn Manson at the time. Obviously, he's a garbage person.

SPEAKER_06 57:23

So I have to do a worse part, which is kind of easy. Half of my script talking about how much I gave this movie a slash was also hack territory. But this really got me, and I remember this watching it the first time too. It's the barn scene. Something that went on with the filming, and I know they were it was filmed in the same year, I'm pretty sure. I don't know what they did to it, but when I watched it the first time, I felt like they were different. It was a different movie, like it felt newer. Like it just felt like Jason felt newer, the barn felt new. I mean, the film actually didn't look as grainy and looked like it might have been made in the like early to mid-90s.

SPEAKER_04 58:05

Is it kind of like the end of episode three where they're like trying to set us up for going back like film quality-wise to episode four? So they like suddenly start changing uniforms of uh, you know, Star Wars characters, and then props start looking a little bit like older and simpler and stuff where it's like this is jarring, we're going back to the barn like we were in the last four movies, and this is different now from where we were.

SPEAKER_06 58:27

It is a different barn though. I just to me, I don't think they're they were that smart in the delivery on that.

SPEAKER_01 58:34

Also, was the mask being blue on Jason this time around? Is that a thing? Does that mean something that I didn't recognize? Because I saw that it was blue and I was like, what's that about?

SPEAKER_05 58:42

It's to point out that it's not actually Jason, because that's not Jason's mask.

SPEAKER_01 58:46

Gotcha. Okay. Okay. Giving knockoff, got it.

SPEAKER_05 58:49

I know I've already shared that my worst part of this whole movie is Junior, and I c I'd be hard pressed to find many more worse parts than that. But I will say this. This isn't going to be at the top of my rewatch list when I want to watch a Friday the 13th movie. Only because I've seen it enough of it at this point in my life, but I will absolutely continue to watch it if I were to do like a binge, like a whole franchise visit.

SPEAKER_06 59:14

Yeah, that's exactly what I did. And I suggest people do that. It's quite entertaining just to see how this franchise just gets crazy. And I I would definitely watch this again in that sort of order.

SPEAKER_01 59:25

I don't know. For me, the franchise starts off solid and then just gets bad. And it's been bad for a while, and now I'm just like, when is the reboot? When do we get the wipe the slate clean start over better special effects, more gore? When does that part happen? Because if I'm doing a rewatch of the whole franchise, this movie's giving skip.

SPEAKER_04 59:43

I would I would not recommend skipping it. I have seen this twice in recent years, and I think that's enough for a while. But if you're gonna do an entire franchise watch through, I think it's important to make it through this movie.

SPEAKER_05 59:54

I would agree. I think it is important to sit through, and I think it's important to see what else you have up your sleeve, sir, with fact or fiction.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:01

The only thing up my sleeve, muscles. Just saying. Anyway.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:05

Tennis Elba.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:06

Tennis Elba, mostly. Number one. Surprisingly, this film was a box office hit. After opening weekend, a producer called up the director and told him the numbers were like the golden times.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:16

Trying to think of the year. Was this popular back then? I I would say yes. I would. I would say fact.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:22

Honestly, maybe fact, because it seems like they just kept shitting them out. So they must have had a reason. Must have been profitable, at the very least, since it wasn't good.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:30

This was indeed a fact. So, very big hit at the box office, not however a hit with the critics.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:36

It's me, I'm critics.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:38

Number two. After the monetary success of this film, the director Danny Simon was signed to direct five other horror films, but each one was a box office and critical failure.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:46

I'm gonna say fiction.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:47

I feel like this is a fact because the only reason this was good is because it had a powerful franchise name behind it, not particularly the talents of that man.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:55

This is a fiction because he was indeed going to direct another five movies after this, but he was in a nearly fatal bicycle accident after this was released and was never able to get back into filmmaking.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:05

Oh my god, that sucks.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:06

Truly tragic. Number three, when shooting the scene with Tommy looking out the window at Jason, Tom Morga was all dressed up as Jason, staring back at John Shepard, making goofy faces through the window.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:17

They seem like they have a lot of antics on this set, so uh fact.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:21

I'm gonna say fiction. I bet it wasn't one of those names of people you said. I bet it was a different person.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:27

Paris, so adept. This was a fiction. Instead, he looked up at stunt director Dick Warlock, showing him his literal ass.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:35

I thought you were gonna say his literal Dick Warlock.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:39

No, but may I also mention that Dick Warlock was the man who played Michael Myers in Halloween 2, and he was also in Halloween 3.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:48

That's an incredible name. Name your child Dick Warlock today.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:53

If you're gonna name your kid Dick Warlock, that means they're going to be in a Harry Potter-esque porn, like some kind of knockoff porn.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:01

Or at least in like the special effects industry.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:07

Oh my goodness. Alright, and number four, a new beginning indeed. Turn Tommy into Jason. Well, Tommy said literally 24 words in this movie, so pretty close to Jason's typical zero. And fake or dream Jason, on screen for a total of three minutes.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:21

Fact.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:21

I'll say fact, and I think one of those minutes he was shirtless and sweaty.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:26

Your favorite. It is indeed a fact. So, wow, 24 words. I think we could have gotten a little bit more out of him. I think we deserve a bonus question.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:35

Yeah. This film was originally written to have Corey Feldman reprise his role.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:40

How?

SPEAKER_06 1:02:40

How, yeah. That's exactly him like he wouldn't have aged, so fiction.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:46

Yeah, I'm also gonna say fiction. He was still very much a child. Wasn't he? Actually, wait, I don't know anything about time.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:51

You got it wrong. This one is a fact. So they had to do a complete, you know, rewrite and refigure things out. Um he was busy. He was working on the Goonies. So they had to, you know, just limit him to being in that cameo in the beginning. And time jump, now he's older. He's 35, playing a 17-year-old.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:06

Disturbing.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:07

Is he in more of them moving forward?

SPEAKER_05 1:03:09

Oh, he is not, no.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:11

And that's been fact or fiction.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:12

Well, there you have it, folks. Friday the 13th, a new beginning, has earned three slashes and one hack. Now we've had a lot to talk about here, but the conversation doesn't end here by any means. We want to know what you think. Were you surprised by the reveal of Roy as great value, Jason? Let us know. You can join in on the conversation by hanging out with us for free in our Discord. Now click the link in our show notes to sign up.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:33

If you've enjoyed listening to this episode, consider becoming one of our patrons or naming your child Dick Warlock. Visit patreon.com slash hackerslash to enjoy more of the show with early access, extended episodes, bonus content, and live shows.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:50

Bye.