214: Pumpkinhead (1988)

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Pumpkin head just frickin' yeet somebody from the top of a tree.

SPEAKER_03 0:08

That's not a yeet, Mac.

SPEAKER_07 0:13

Greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hack or Slash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. Is it story time? If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack. A total joke, a waste of time, or a slash.

SPEAKER_00 0:29

Totally killer, pun intended.

SPEAKER_07 0:31

We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, we're rating these movies with the perspective we've all gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast. This week I'm joined by the Superfly Space Guy Mac.

SPEAKER_00 0:45

That old woman scares the piss out of me.

SPEAKER_07 0:47

The gore lover Alexis. Hey everyone. Hey Cowardly Creeper Ryan. Hiya.

SPEAKER_03 0:51

And the Scream Queen Paris. My mom used to call me Pumpkin Head when I was little.

SPEAKER_07 0:56

This month marks a halfway point to Halloween, so we're celebrating by breaking down a film about vengeance. And it's not Batman. Before we get to quench our thirst for revenge, though, we have some follow-up.

SPEAKER_03 1:07

Let's follow up on a movie. Okay, you want to talk about vengeance? Let's talk about The Ring from 2002, a movie that we recently reviewed. And let's just say it, the results were controversial. So we wanted to ask our patrons and our listeners and our Twitter followers and everybody out there what they thought about the film. And I will tell you this: the voters got it right. It is 100% a slash.

SPEAKER_07 1:28

Bullshit. I demand a recount.

SPEAKER_03 1:30

I did. I actually did recount. I think this is the first time that we didn't universally slash a movie, but the voters did. I don't know if this has happened before. This might be unprecedented.

SPEAKER_06 1:40

It's a tainted record. Yeah, I'm with Rob. 100%.

SPEAKER_03 1:43

I know. I'm happy. But listen, here, some of the comments kind of contradict the votes. So I think the people that commented aren't necessarily the people that voted. We do have one comment from Chris on Twitter who said, it's a masterpiece. Plain and simple. And then we have the rest of these comments. This one from Craig. This is a great movie, but it's not scary. I saw this freshman year of high school. I remember everyone screaming in the theater, and I was just sitting there thinking, how is this scary? Entertaining? Yes. Scary? No. It's a soft hack.

SPEAKER_05 2:12

So not a hundred percent. They just didn't do the proper voting.

SPEAKER_03 2:15

Yeah, the the comments are hateful, but the votes are positive.

SPEAKER_07 2:18

But here's the thing: this is why it's so important to show up to the polls.

SPEAKER_03 2:22

That is exactly right. And if you are wondering where you can find these polls, you can find them on our Twitter. You can find them on our Instagram. Check us out on social media if you want to be a part of these votes.

SPEAKER_05 2:30

You can also contact your local government to find out where you might be registered to vote.

SPEAKER_03 2:34

That too. We do not accept mail and ballots at this time. We have another comment from Kylie who said, I saw this in the theater, and it scared me so much. I was 18 and never felt this scared from a movie before. I slept in my dorm with the lights on. I'm not sure if it holds up, but I'm scared to watch it again.

SPEAKER_05 2:49

I think this is a a vote that I can align with because if you asked me if it's a hack or slash, I'd say this exact thing like, I was super scared, and I'm so scared that I don't want to watch it again, even though I think it might suck.

SPEAKER_06 2:59

I'd say exactly. Even though a lot of the references we get are from scary movie. Yeah. Not wrong.

SPEAKER_03 3:06

That is absolutely true. To round out our follow-up, we actually have a call into the hack or slash hotline. Chris, roll the tape.

SPEAKER_04 3:14

Hello all. This is Gwen. Regarding the ring, the scene that I'm surprised no one mentioned was after Rachel found Samara's body in the well. When Noah asks, How long can someone survive in that dark well? We all know that answer, even before Rachel says seven days. How completely horrific to think that child, evil though she was, survived seven days in the dark, in the water, with no food, no light, absolute nothingness. As a parent, that scene still gives me chills, even 20 years later.

SPEAKER_00 3:46

What a great point. What a horrible, horrible way to go. Especially for someone who's, I don't know, too young to really understand like what it means. I mean, they know what's gonna happen. You don't even like as an adult, you kind of like you process it and you're like, all right, this is it, it's game over.

SPEAKER_07 3:59

Didn't we go and talk at length about how terrible she was and how it was a necessary thing?

SPEAKER_00 4:06

Yeah. Well, that's true. I mean, uh she was obviously evil and should have been absolutely destroyed. But at the same time, though, at the same time, like if to the point made by Gwen, I think it's it's yes, that what a horrible way to go out.

SPEAKER_06 4:17

A horrible but much needed way to die.

SPEAKER_05 4:19

Also, like she's obviously supernatural if she lives seven days in a in a well. Because I'm telling you right now, you throw me in a well, you got like a two-hour window before you just die. After that, I'm done. You can't come back for me, I won't be here anymore.

SPEAKER_03 4:33

There is no Wi-Fi in the well. Something I love about our Hackerslash Hotline is that we do get these extra points of view because none of us on this cast are actually parents. So it's interesting to hear like a parent's take on this, like seeing and experiencing a child like fully being trapped in that well. That's not something I had considered.

SPEAKER_07 4:50

I love that you shared that, Paris. And if you are listening right now and want to share your perspective on these movies, make sure you drop us an audio message by visiting our website, hackerslash.live.

SPEAKER_03 5:00

And that's our follow-up.

SPEAKER_07 5:01

While the ring is generally beloved by audiences in the US, this week's film is one that wasn't met with quite the same immediate reception. This film marks the directorial debut of an Academy Award-winning special makeup's effect creator, one whose iconic work you may know from The Thing, Jurassic Park, Aliens, and even Iron Man. In the midst of Oscar nominations and wins for his work, Stan Winston was approached by producers to build a demon for an upcoming film. While Winston agreed, he did so under one condition. He'd do it if he got to direct it. As he worked to refine the story, he entrusted the creature creation with his artists. Their trust and collaboration allowed them to use little of the film's three million dollar budget while still bringing to life a creature that's now considered a cult classic. This week, we're talking about the 1988 film Pumpkin Head. Who's seen this one before?

SPEAKER_06 5:49

I have not. I heard of Pumpkinhead and heard of this thing, but that's about it.

SPEAKER_05 5:56

I had never seen this, I think that's obvious. I haven't never even actually heard of a horror movie named Pumpkin Head, and I certainly wasn't prepared for an actual Pumpkin Head.

SPEAKER_03 6:06

I too have never seen Pumpkin Head. I did know it existed. It wasn't quite this in my mind, but here we are. This is a first watch for me.

SPEAKER_00 6:15

I probably watched this for the first time when I was like 12 or 13, and again many times during my teens.

SPEAKER_07 6:20

So I've only seen clips of this movie before, and I realized that as I was sitting down to watch it, it's something that I know for sure has played on the TV in the background growing up, but it's not something I've ever known the complete story front to back. I will say though, I was expecting this, knowing that it's a cult classic, to be really high quality in its practical and special effects, but I expected it honestly to be lacking in its dialogue and its characters. I thought this was gonna be a pretty hollow B movie with nothing but a dope creature to stand on. But what were you all expecting?

SPEAKER_05 6:52

Alright, so hear me out. There's a beer by Shipyard Brewing called Pumpkinhead, and it's a great fall beer. And I was like, man, that makes me feel good for some reason going into this movie. Has no relation whatsoever, but I like the beer, so I'm like, all right, Pumpkinhead sounds good. And then someone who knows the show said, Oh, I'm interested to hear what Ryan thinks about this. And I was like, oh no, I'm gonna hate it. It's gonna be a horrific movie. It's gonna be everything that Paris and I hate about 80s horror movies. I was just completely prepared for the worst experience that we get from this genre at this time. And I didn't read a single thing about it, so that's all I had to go for.

SPEAKER_03 7:31

Same Ryan. I had low expectations because I was like, oh god, some more 80s horror bullshit. Here we go. Let me get my wine. Uh I knew virtually nothing about this movie, like you. I was expecting like literally some kind of pumpkin on a head, like some kind of sleepy hollow, maybe, or just like a scary dude with a pumpkin for a head. I was like, this is gonna be some garbage. Uh so my expectations were very low going into this movie.

SPEAKER_06 7:55

Yeah, with that name Pumpkin Head, I was really expecting this to be more of a comedy. But as I was doing some research and saw some images and also some more movies that came after this, I was like, oh well, this movie, you know, it's gonna be probably creepier and more serious than I actually thought it would be.

SPEAKER_00 8:13

Okay, so I've seen it before and I've seen it a lot. Like I watched it probably 12 times by the time I was 18 or 19 years old. But it's been a while since I was 18 or 19 years old, so I expected it to be probably less creepy than I remembered, uh, and probably much cheesier than I remembered. Did that hold true for you? Well, let me tell you. I mean, when I'm watching it, I'm sitting here thinking, like, this is actually holding up really well. I watched this with my wife. Uh, but from creature design to acting, nothing about this felt like it was done a disservice by being a movie that was released in in 1988.

SPEAKER_05 8:44

Yeah, I I think I agree. And I was surprised at the monster that we got in this movie. Like, I mean, I again, just like Paris, I was really kind of just expecting a dude with a pumpkin on his head. Honestly, we've seen some crazy things. We literally saw a puppet turkey that cusses out people. So I was not expecting a lot when it came to the monster, but then when we finally got it, I'm a bit disappointed in Pumpkin Head. And and I wouldn't expect that from me. It it's an interesting thing.

SPEAKER_06 9:15

Mac, you're right. I mean, it has some solid characters and acting and this antagonist that you get. It's pretty interesting. But I it just was hard to follow the story a little bit because I got lost in some of the characters than I did in the true story that was happening, and then the feelings of, you know, loss and despair. So I was just very confused throughout the movie.

SPEAKER_03 9:39

Alexis, I don't know if you did the same thing, but because I was a little confused during this movie, I fell asleep and had to continue watching it the next day.

SPEAKER_06 9:46

I did fall asleep. Luckily, it was towards the end, surprisingly, but I just re-watched it later on.

SPEAKER_03 9:52

Same. I got to a point where I was like halfway through this movie and I was like, okay, are we gonna when does the movie begin? I felt like it was all prologue, and I looked at the runtime and I was like, it's almost over. What the hell? It was a really strange pacing as far as a watch experience goes for me. But I will say I was like semi-intrigued, semi-turned off. It was a mixed bag, but I wasn't altogether put off.

SPEAKER_05 10:13

I have a hard time understanding how you guys could be like lost or confused during this movie because I feel like it's so straightforward and the feelings that happen in like Paris, what you thought was like the prologue that goes quite long are so intense. Like I had little little teardrops in my eyes at some points in this movie. Like, and I I felt like it was really important to the character. I found myself caring so much more about this movie than I thought I would, like, so much more about the people in it, and not about the people that you would think if you listed out like who's in this cast and what kind of characters they are. There's a certain set of people you think you care about, you don't care about them. So I don't know. It this this movie has a a way that it kind of like flips you on your head a little bit. It does something different, I think.

SPEAKER_03 10:58

Flips you on your pumpkin head, flips you on your stem.

SPEAKER_07 11:00

Absolutely, Ryan. And I know that you and I were texting as we were watching this movie. We happened to start it at the same time. And look, maybe it's because I had a real stressful day, but I was I was feeling particularly vulnerable and I wasn't really sure what I was gonna get into. Because again, while I've seen clips of this movie, I've never seen this movie. I never knew we were getting into what we were getting into, and I think there are a few movies that we could compare this to. I think it's a reverse of another movie that we actually covered pretty recently on our podcast, and I too had a couple teary bits in my eyes. I can't explain where those teary bits came from or or why, but they were there. I was feeling particularly soft. But beyond that emotional gut punch that I felt watching this movie, I felt a couple things. One, frustration that I couldn't find a single damn copy of this movie that had subtitles available and captioning, but you can't find a script to this movie online, and I'll include a link in the show notes for it. But it was one of those things where I realized because of the sound design, not that it's particularly terrible, I had a hard time discerning what some people were saying, and I had to stop watching it on my TV and actually switch to my computer and watch it with my speakers with everything like really close so I could actually understand what was going on. So while I think there was a lot of room in this movie to feel a wide variety of things, I felt a little frustration and disappointment in the experience of watching this movie.

SPEAKER_06 12:32

I was so disappointed in this movie that you see the antagonist within the first scene, you see the creature throughout the movie, and it's just disappointing to me because you don't build up that tension, you don't build up, you know, this curiosity of what it looks like. You just don't know, but you see it, and I mean that was just a huge disappointment for me.

SPEAKER_03 12:56

I too was disappointed by the audio, Chris. Uh there was I think I texted you actually, I was like, is this movie terribly dubbed or is it just me? And it is. I think they had to do a lot of the audio in post just because of whatever obstacles they ran into on location for a lot of the shots in the beginning, and I was just like, this is rough. And it was kind of hard for me to take the movie seriously as a result of that. Alexis, I totally get what you're saying. I even wrote in my notes uh the alien reveal was a bit early, but I'm intrigued because I what didn't know what the hell I was looking at. I was like, okay, alien, whatever. Uh, but I was still intrigued, and I think I wasn't necessarily disappointed the more we got to see this antagonist. I was actually pleasantly surprised with the quality that that character and creature design was giving.

SPEAKER_05 13:41

Okay, but Paris, whatever they had to do that seemed like they had to add some audio in afterwards, it was bad, but it wasn't anything compared to that whatever that god-awful movie was that we just reviewed that had Bunyman? Yes, that had the worst dubbing of all time, and it was so obvious.

SPEAKER_03 13:57

It's it was giving Bunyman to me. I feel like it that's exactly what it reminded me of.

SPEAKER_05 14:01

This was not as bad as Bunny Man, and also in I don't know, is this dumb? Because it's like set in an old time, I felt like, oh, this is appropriate. Like maybe it's hard to hear in the country.

SPEAKER_07 14:11

I don't know. The difference between Pumpkin Head and Bunny Man is that Bunyman was made much more recently with much greater technology readily available. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 14:23

I gotta say, I was surprised how much I remembered from this movie. Like, there's parts that are very memorable, but I didn't realize how much I would I would absolutely remember, like, not necessarily word for word, but like scene by scene. Um but at the same time, it was also a you know a pretty compelling rewatch. Like if you've seen this before, it's not one that you're sitting there bored because you know everything. Like, yeah, you know the you know the big stuff, but it's still something you can get into having seen it previously. And not all not all 80s movies are like that.

SPEAKER_07 14:52

Another thing that surprised me in this movie was the complexity of the characters and the dynamics there. I know that this is very straightforward, as Ryan said, on paper, right? Like the plot points are really there. But even the conflict that arises within one of the groups of people that we have in here, it's really interesting. And I think this movie goes to some of the interesting depths on what is like the morality of vengeance. You know, is having it all as good as getting it all? And at what point do we turn to the darkest parts of our souls to I guess satiate some kind of need that we have inside, and really what is the price that we should be paying for that? This movie got deep in some ways that I just really wasn't expecting.

SPEAKER_00 15:33

I can't I can't wait to touch on that later because it's definitely a major point of my review.

SPEAKER_05 15:38

Well, unfortunately, as we mentioned earlier, we see this monster real early, and it does take away quite a bit of the fear for me. I d I don't know that this is a scary movie for me. Or honestly, I don't know if this is a scary movie for most people. I doubt any of us here thought it was.

SPEAKER_06 15:54

Yeah, I'm definitely gonna have to agree. The only thing that was scary on that creature were the nails.

SPEAKER_03 15:59

I disagree. I feel like Pumpkinhead as a character was giving scary. I mean, I'm in my 30s now, so it didn't scare me, but I can see the case to be made for it being frightening, especially for the 80s when this movie came out. I think there were parts of it where I was still vaguely unsettled, and I was like, ooh, kind of like my body was turned a little bit away from the screen while I was watching with intrigue. Uh, but it wasn't completely ineffective.

SPEAKER_05 16:25

I'm not saying Pumpkin Head isn't scary as a character, but the movie didn't really capitalize on the fear that I think we could have from him.

SPEAKER_00 16:33

I do think, depending on who you are and and what's going on in your life, there are some moments that will make you a bit sweaty. Um, particularly if you own a dog or if you happen to have children. I think there's some parts of this that are either gonna make you sweat or make you sweat from the eyeballs.

SPEAKER_07 16:47

Oh, absolutely. I think the scariness of this movie lies more in like what happens, you know. Again, I know I keep saying this in several movies, but what happens between people and less about what happens with the monster that you're facing. And I think this is just another example of that. One of the other things that I think this movie does really well is it has this urban legend folk tale kind of energy, right? Like this movie in the story of it is based on a poem, but even though the creature design feels reminiscent of some of the creatures that we've seen in the past, a la alien and the xenomorph, even though it looks like that, even though you know there's so many um hags or or like kind of like swamp witches that we experience in other movies, this still feels pretty different to me.

SPEAKER_00 17:34

100% agree. It is it is very singular, it has a feeling of its own in my mind, to where if you were to like say just just the word pumpkin head, it's all summed up in just like this one feeling. This there's like one synapse or neuron or whatever the hell does the things in your brain. Um, that when I think of it, it feels all on its own. I don't think of oh, it kind of looks like a xenomorph a little bit. Like, yeah, we know that it does, but that's that's not what the movie does in my mind. There is an emotion that it brings to mind that is portrayed in the film, and that's what I think of every time somebody talks about it.

SPEAKER_07 18:09

I just want to say that this pumpkin head looks as much like a xenomorph as Sam from Trick or Treat looks like Pumpkin Head.

SPEAKER_00 18:18

Honestly, though, it looks like the baby from Alien Resurrection.

SPEAKER_05 18:21

As much as this is the Alien Alien, I this movie itself feels original to me.

SPEAKER_03 18:28

I agree. This movie definitely felt original. It was a concept that I can't even think of having been done since. It's super specific and super niche. Yeah, the character design was a little bit familiar. Yeah, it's similar to a movie that we did actually recently review. But I think the way it handled the origins of its creature, the design of its creature, the purpose of its creature, and the events that unfold in regards to the creature, I think they were pretty original.

SPEAKER_06 18:54

I would say so. I mean, the parts of this movie don't feel original, but all of it as a whole does, if that makes sense. I love that. That's a good way to say that.

SPEAKER_00 19:03

I only wish we didn't have to watch any of the sequels to understand the mechanism for Pumpkinhead and how Pumpkin Head could continue.

SPEAKER_03 19:11

What's to question? I feel like we got everything we needed.

SPEAKER_00 19:15

You you do for this movie, but for the lore of Pumpkinhead for the continued story, things get more interesting.

SPEAKER_05 19:21

But I think like you get enough in this one to to enjoy what happened. Like you can't get the whole story at once.

SPEAKER_00 19:28

Right. And yeah, I think you're right though, that you do get enough. And I think the fact that like they expand upon it later can also get a bit out of control.

SPEAKER_06 19:34

All I can say is I fell asleep during the ending. So to me, n not that it was lackluster, it was just something not surprising, not interesting. It was just an ending to me.

SPEAKER_00 19:49

I I found that it was like the perfect resolution for both the protagonist and the antagonist.

SPEAKER_05 19:54

I would agree. I was uh I was a fan of the ending. I didn't have anything to complain about.

SPEAKER_03 19:58

Yeah, I wasn't super mad about the ending. There was a part where we're really building some great momentum, and then we come to a screeching halt only to rebuild that momentum from zero again, which I wasn't thrilled with. But overall the ending I think was relatively successful.

SPEAKER_07 20:13

Okay, so one of the things I consider when thinking about like the ending of this or the finality of the story, I love how more and more theatric pumpkin head gets as we go. And I feel like it just ramps up an intensity. I love that we get to this point where we realize what's going on and a connection between two characters, and we see that logic and that reason and that rationale like play out in real time. I was a big fan of the ending. I don't know if the ending gives me a whole lot of I want to watch the sequel. I kind of like the idea of this being a one-and-done story because I feel like it gives potential and it gives you clear direction of where it could go, but it didn't make me so curious that I have to see more. It feels like how could it be any different from this?

SPEAKER_00 21:04

It I think it only gets worse as it continues. And honestly, if somebody were to try to reboot this, they need the people, they need that feeling of like hereditary or the witch. They need somebody with that kind of mentality to to do it. And then yeah, you could make a trilogy or something and do it really well if you just did it all at the same time. But as the actual movies continue in the sequels, it yeah, it's just it's too zany.

SPEAKER_05 21:25

Man, I'm pretty bummed to hear that because I felt as I was watching this, I was like, I man, I bet there's some great sequels that come after this.

SPEAKER_06 21:31

That's what I was thinking too. I was like, either they get really cheesy where they're good, or they just are really good.

SPEAKER_00 21:37

So in the 2000s, they end up with like sci fi channel made for TV movies that um aren't are just you know, leave it alone. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 21:44

I love those kind of movies. Well, while we don't know how promising the sequels may or may not be, the good thing is that we are talking about just this movie tonight. So let's go ahead and start making our way to our ratings. Now, before we actually reveal our scores for Pumpkinhead 1988, I like This, how many people died in this film? We had a total of eight bodies hit the floor. But what about the Animal Report?

SPEAKER_05 22:05

Oh, let me tell you, the start of this movie is stressful for the Animal Report, but things go well.

SPEAKER_07 22:12

What a relief indeed. Now let's go ahead and get into our ratings. Pumpkin Head, 1988. Directorial debut of Stan Winston. Was it a hacker or slash?

SPEAKER_00 22:21

I'm gonna I'm gonna jump in first on this one because I seem to have the most like positive views. Well, I'm one of two people, but Pumpkin Head, I think, is a sci-fi horror classic. It's a film about love, loss, grief, and the danger of vengeance. Make no mistake, this movie with an insane demonic creature is 100% about us humans. There are some silly laughs, some aws, maybe some even tears for those of you who cry to movies. I I mean I don't cry ever, but whatever. Uh but it's still effectively like it delivers horror and plentiful kills. It's a slash.

SPEAKER_06 22:52

That's interesting. I do where you're I do get where you're coming from with this struggle, but to me, I needed more to be convinced. I needed to see Ed a little bit more in this movie and his struggle, or I just needed to not see him really at all and see more Pumpkin Head, which we do towards the end. But to me, watching this, I was more excited for the films after this than I was this movie. And I don't know what it was. Like maybe I had higher expectations about Pumpkin Head, everyone's talked about it, but watching it, I wasn't like like, wow, I need to watch this again, or wow, this was a good movie, or even be able to give it some credit. It was hard to watch visually, like it was just super greeny, and then not being able to see the characters a little bit. And I'm talking about mostly our pumpkin head, and just he looks very similar to other things, and I was just like, you know what? I was expecting something more from this movie, and usually I'm slash until proven hack, and this one's just getting a hack for me. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_05 23:55

So I I guess I'm maybe at an advantage then, coming in with no expectations. I don't even think I knew it's considered like a classic until maybe I was already watching, or maybe just before I watched Chris said that, but I I had no idea what I was walking into, but I know that I generally can't stand the people in the movies that they had in the 80s. Like something about the 80s, they just made every character in every movie horrible, and then they picked the worst ones and put them in all the horror movies. And when like the cars roll up in this movie with like the gaggle of teens or mid whatever, when they roll up and start talking, I was like, oh, kill me. I want to die here, especially sports car dude. Get out of my face. It's an interesting thing because this movie I feel like is known for the monster, the the pumpkin head, and I actually don't really like pumpkin head. I it looks so much like Alien, and I I know that that's like just an understood thing about it, but obviously I just started watching it, and and as soon as it came on screen, I was like, what's this alien dude doing here? And so it it is a weird balance of like it's supposed to be a demon, but this is a sci-fi movie. I don't care what you tell me, this is sci-fi. So I don't know. There's a lot of strange things that happen here, but let me tell you the beginning, this dad, his son, their dog, it just got me, okay? I'm a softie, especially for kids, especially for like sweet kids and sweet parents. And like, I almost cried the other day when I saw a mom singing to her kid in the grocery store, okay? It gets me. And this movie got me. I think just because I had no other expectations, I was like, wow, this is a movie from the 80s that I don't hate. And I would go so far as to say, this is what I wish all the rest of the horror movies that y'all tell me are classics would be like. Like, this is a great 80s horror movie to me, and it is such a solid slash.

SPEAKER_03 25:42

Ryan, you did make a ton of really solid points just then. Like, I think you and I came at this movie from the same place. I also didn't know it was a classic. Uh, I thought it was gonna be regular 80s bullshit. And when those teens pulled up in their car, I was like, oh Jesus, here we go. And then it, I don't know, I'm sure you feel the same, but it got worse when that whole family of like really poor kids came in. And I swear to God, they introduced like 18 characters within a 15-minute time span. And I was like, no, I'm I'm clocking out right now. You cannot ask me to give a shit about all 800 of these people. Just kill them, whatever's gonna happen in this movie. So and and they definitely introduced and exposed the creature a little too early, but in a way that I was like still a little bit intrigued. But let's be honest, I did fall asleep because the movie first half gave me nothing. And then we got to the crone scene with the hag in the woods, and y'all know I love a good hag. She was honestly one of the greatest hags I've ever seen. The lighting on that hag was incredible. The whole scene, the whole assignment, the project, the task, uh, the conjuring of it all. I was like, okay, maybe this movie's actually good. And then we get to see like Pumpkinhead in action, and I was so pleasantly surprised. I was like, whoa, Pumpkinhead's actually a really cool character. I did at the very beginning get alien vibes, like xenomorph vibes, but I think overall Pumpkinhead looks cooler and is scarier and is creepier and generally better than the Xenomorph, as far as I'm concerned. Now, don't get me wrong, this movie is still a hack because generally didn't give a shit. But I was pleasantly surprised. There's a lot of really great things about this movie that I was not expecting. I can see why it was a classic. As I was watching it, I was like, oh, this movie's probably a classic. Now that I'm now that I'm seeing it, I can see that there's a lot for people to like here. I think ultimately I spent way too much time not being sure if a very plot-relevant character was alive or not. Maybe an hour of the movie. I do not know when this character died. And the reactions that we got to this happening were so vague and bizarre that it did not give the emotional like moment that I think it was supposed to be giving. And I think that the storyline would lead me to believe that it was implied to be giving. But I was just like, this is a bizarre way to handle this event. And also, when did this event occur? Because I'm still not convinced and I don't know for sure, but I guess now it is. So it was really unclear. Uh, I think the actor that played the dad did a really good job, except in that one specific moment, and maybe made a choice that I just didn't understand because I've never experienced anything like this. But overall, this movie is a hack, but there's a lot to like here.

SPEAKER_07 28:08

Well, I cannot wait to unpack the logistics of these scenes and the timeline and order in which things occur. We are split down the middle right now, and there are statements that I wholly agree with on both sides of this. And look, the real negatives that I have come from the experience of the movie, but not necessarily the story itself. There are some highs and lows here. I mean, we really get in one shot someone telling someone in their car, oh yeah, Joel's a really great guy. Cut to Joel, demanding his girlfriend pour a beer in his mouth as he's driving down a car. You get those kind of 80s D bags here, right? And there's a lot going on in terms of the plot, in terms of uh the dynamics of the characters. And again, that seems like an almost oxymoronic because it has such simplicity and it is such a straightforward march to the ending. This thing happens, you conjure this thing, it's only gonna fucking end one way. And even though it ends one way, it really digs at you and and and asks you questions about at what point is enough enough. And it really, you know, I think Pumpkin Head as the personification of the demons inside us, as a personification of vengeance and what that does to our soul, is such a brilliant move, but this isn't where that movie got me. This movie got me when I cried just a little bit. It also got me as Pumpkin Head starts the March of Kills. Because each one just gets more and more dramatic and theatric. The uh dramatic entrances that Pumpkinhead has into any space he encounters is outrageous. This movie was fun, and for that it's a slash. And with that, Pumpkinhead from 1988, now available on Pluto and 2B if you're living in the US, has earned three slashes and two hacks. Now, this movie should be readily available for you to stream wherever you are, so go check this out. Then join us in the second half so we can clarify the timeline for Paris together. We'll see you in a bit.

SPEAKER_02 30:17

Because your local swamp makes the spells, the demons, and many potions. Swamphack services are truly comprehensive, and only Agle Care Plus products give you one-stop service and support from Swampag Experts.

SPEAKER_01 30:33

So most issues can be solved in a single call. Stop going to access Hagle Care Plus, you're covered for two instances of accidental death. Hackle Care Plus also includes 24-7 priority support online over the Chrome. As well as drive up service, Hagle Care Plus is void after death, and after evidence of unauthorized spellcasting is discovered, Apple Care Plus, because this hack cares.

SPEAKER_07 31:30

Now we have a lot to get to here, but before we get into the specifics of our ratings, we do have the matter of gore to get to. Alexis, what's the gore score for this movie?

SPEAKER_06 31:37

You know, there's some gore in here. And you get a lot of it towards the end, but I think overall this is generally low for me.

SPEAKER_05 31:44

I I would have to agree with you. I don't think it's particularly high, because we don't get a ton of like blood and guts and anything like that.

SPEAKER_06 31:50

Yeah, and I feel like no, correct me if I'm wrong, or if you guys have a different opinion, but I feel like if they were to add more gore, this would have been a little bit more suspenseful for me, terrifying, and the antagonist of Pumpkin Head would be a little bit more scary.

SPEAKER_07 32:07

Um, I don't know if I a hundred percent agree with that, but I do think if we had a goo score, this would be a medium. A goo score? This movie's gooey as fuck when he's trying to when he when when Pumpkin Head is uh resurrecting and coming back to life, there's some goo.

SPEAKER_00 32:22

There is quite a bit of goo. This is kind of the one place I'm where I'm glad that they didn't go too close to Xenomorph and make him juicy, because there's no need for a juicy pumpkin head.

SPEAKER_07 32:30

He was a wet pumpkin head.

SPEAKER_00 32:31

But there's not you know, he wasn't literally covered in lube and we didn't need that.

SPEAKER_05 32:35

He was at one point dusty. Or seeds. Seeds.

SPEAKER_00 32:38

Because of the pumpkins. I I think when it comes to the gore sphere, I can't decide. It's like I don't need extra gore. And so if you put in too much, it could have really ruined it and made it seem super cheesy. But if you had taken some of the kills away or or made them like less visible, I also feel like it would have kind of made it more of a bore.

SPEAKER_06 32:55

Less visible? Okay, uh rewinding, I get it. A lot of them were visible, but a lot of them were like stuff that wouldn't actually cause a death.

SPEAKER_00 33:04

Potentially.

SPEAKER_06 33:05

Some movies I'm like, I will love more gore. Some I'm totally fine without the gore, but this is one where I feel like I would have needed it to give it a slash. If you give me more of the pumpkin head, more of the juicy, more of the, you know, gore, or give me more of the story with Ed and the turmoil he's going through. One or the other. Pick one. Not try to fit both in for an hour and a half movie.

SPEAKER_05 33:30

See, I feel like they did pick one. They picked the latter, they picked the story, and they went gentle on the core. But it wasn't to me, I mean, I I didn't miss gore because I think we get such an interesting killer as far as like what he's doing, and like honestly, he's just playing with them. Like, there's a point where he's like smirking a lot and just like seems to be holding a head in the sky and just giggling about it to himself. So I feel like they went for like more of an interesting thing than just like look at this bloody situation, which I'm totally cool with, uh obviously.

SPEAKER_00 34:03

Yeah, and it and it gave me it gave me like multiple favorite kills.

SPEAKER_06 34:07

Uh what the fuck? Okay. Uh I have two.

SPEAKER_00 34:10

So I I'll I'll go I'll go with the first one that comes comes to my just straight to my gut. Everyone's favorite. I hope not, but it's when Pumpkin Head just freaking yeets somebody from the top of a tree. That's not a yeet, Mac. And like their friends are looking for her, and you you don't expect to look up and see it happening, but then he's like, yeet, and and she just hits that like rock or the ground or whatever it was, and it's it's game over. There's no chance to like catch her or anything. She doesn't need to hit a spike on the way down, just the force of that throw was good enough.

SPEAKER_05 34:39

Kim is also my favorite kill. I loved it. I think she's one of the ones that he's holding as before he pulls her up into the tree, just like dangling by her head, basically, and just like got a little smile going, you little creep.

SPEAKER_07 34:53

Yeah. I loved Maggie's death, actually, and because not only she lifted, not only she dragged, not only she's just generally messed up, but then he smushes her face against the glass to taunt everybody else. It's like, pumpkin head, you cheeky bastard. I liked Maggie's death because she was annoying.

SPEAKER_03 35:11

Yeah, it was the bitch being dropped out of the tree, which specifically it was a drop. It was not a yeet. A yeet is a horizontal trajectory. This was a clear vertical trajectory. Uh, but just like seeing Pumpkin Head up in that tree, first of all, I was like, how the fuck did he get up there? Second of all, I was like, that very much still looks like a man in a suit. How scary must it be to be that man in the suit up in that tree really high up at night? Such a terrifying thing to just like look up and see. And then to just drop that bitch the way he did. I was like, she's absolutely dead. And one thing I loved, and I don't know if this is intentional, but she landed on that rock and you see her like fully splayed on that rock. And it reminded me of Midsommar when those two old couple, when that old couple uh ritualistically throws himself off of the cliff and lands on that rock. And I wasn't sure if Midsommar was deliberately referencing that pumpkin head kill, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were.

SPEAKER_07 36:01

I think Midsommar is referencing much more profound things than Pumpkinhead.

SPEAKER_03 36:05

I think they reference a lot in that movie.

SPEAKER_06 36:08

Um surprised no one said Joel. Like, come on, you got the stab and lift essentially with a kind of rubbery gun. I was saving it for you. Thank you, thank you. I appreciate it. If anyone deserved to die in this movie, it was his ass.

SPEAKER_00 36:22

Okay, so my thought is when you see Pumpkinhead pick up a shotgun, do you not imagine he could totally fire that at one of them?

SPEAKER_05 36:30

It does seem like he could. He feels very human.

SPEAKER_07 36:32

He absolutely could, but I would like to just point out here the references of Dick Warlock being in this movie, Dick Warlock, who famously played Michael Myers in Halloween 2, and the stab and lift with a shotgun specifically was done in Halloween 4, which came out the same year as this.

SPEAKER_06 36:49

So not that these are my favorite kills per se, but I love the connection between Pumpkin Head and Ed at the end where you have both of their deaths, and I think that's really interesting. And I wish they would have explored this a little bit earlier as this connection that they have. So that their death I thought was significant enough for me to appreciate both of it.

SPEAKER_07 37:09

But it was earlier because he was seeing and experiencing those kids' deaths through his own eyes, and that's why he was going so crazy and so chewed up and tormented.

SPEAKER_06 37:17

But I didn't see that. I saw that as like maybe I don't know. Maybe that's where it started. I wish it would have I wish he would have like physically maybe became Pumpkinhead a little bit. And I know the eyes were getting there, but I I want to see more of that transition.

SPEAKER_05 37:31

I'm gonna be honest with you. I think you missed that happening because you were falling asleep and re-watching this because it was very clear that he was feeling what was happening as Pumpkinhead was killing people.

SPEAKER_06 37:41

No, I definitely got that part, and I it was just I guess the dramatics of him being like, oh, and then him being like, I need to, I need to save these people. Like, I get it. Okay. Yeah, you do because you wanted to kill him. Now you want to go back on what you did. No, you stay on your trajectory, dude. You stay on that.

SPEAKER_05 37:59

It's because he thought he could be that guy, and then he realized it was wrong, and he didn't want that to happen. He thought he could be vengeance, he thought he could be you, he thought he could be Batman.

SPEAKER_06 38:10

He thought he could be the girl from Teeth, and he can't.

SPEAKER_05 38:13

He couldn't. He's just a good person. I get that. I get that. So visually, honestly, pumpkinhead was one of my least favorite parts. And I was expecting after this to have like quite a bit of notes about like special effects and stuff like that. We have a little bit. The only thing that a lot of it is just about like interesting things about how they came about this and the team that worked on it and how they worked with the director. The one thing I did think was really interesting is that this was a suit that like the people were literally glued into. Several people acted as him in the movie, and they were glued into it for like hours and hours on end. So there is a person in there. I mean, maybe that was obvious, but there was a moment where I thought maybe it could have been like animatronics or a a conglomerate of things. So that's an interesting thing, but I don't know, he didn't do it for me.

SPEAKER_06 39:02

What were y'all's favorite visuals? To me, it's this entire scenery of this entire movie. So the set design, you know, you have these roads and especially near the Wallace's house, and you get this dimension too of the angles where the characters are in sort of the background and the cameras in the foreground. And I don't know, I just like that depth perception that you get, especially with these trees and all of that, and they look pretty haunting throughout the movie more than our characters do.

SPEAKER_07 39:33

I I thought at one point that it was very much giving tremors, and then I text Ryan that and she was like, Oh, I missed that episode. And I was like, Oh, it's also giving Pet Cemetery 1989. She's like, Another one that I miss. I'm like, God damn it, Ryan.

SPEAKER_05 39:47

Everything Chris referenced, I was like, honey, I didn't see that. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00 39:52

But okay, so you didn't really like Pumpkinhead. That was my favorite visual. Pumpkinhead for some reason felt very like visceral and very gross. It felt like a creature that would crawl from a toilet at a pumpkin pie eating competition. Like just he just like looks and feels nasty. So I I definitely enjoyed Pumpkinhead. But I think the thing that always sticks in my mind is it's just the glasses. The little kid with the glasses, the dad with whatever he's wearing, with like this the silver dollars that he puts into the thing. Everything just like felt really dirty, but not like as in not clean. Dirty as in like you're in the middle of a dusty area.

SPEAKER_05 40:35

Okay, two things. The most authentic thing about that boy and his father is when his father says, I reckon, okay. I reckon is a phrase that I adore deeply. Okay. My grandfather, if you ask him a question, he's gonna say, I reckon so. And when people say I reckon, it makes me just warm inside. And the kid I think asked if it was time to go to the store, and he said, I reckon it is. And this is a father and a son, okay. I know they're actors, I know they're not related, but I felt this family, I don't know where the mom was. I we missed her. I missed her. I felt like I needed to step in and and help out and be a motherly figure for them. Like I was very invested.

SPEAKER_00 41:16

But when they're outside and he like tells them, you know, whoever is is last in has to clean the breakfast dishes, but then obviously gives them the lead and doesn't try to raise him at all, you're like, stop it.

SPEAKER_05 41:25

I just wanted to die. It was so sweet. The other thing though, you mentioned like he seems like he would crawl out of somewhere. I would just like to note he doesn't actually give pumpkin. And like honestly, the whole name of this movie, aside from him coming from a pumpkin patch, like it doesn't give pumpkin head. I don't actually think it needed to be called pumpkin head, and I feel like it would be a more effective movie if it had a different name. I don't know if that's weird, but then maybe you'd lose, I don't know, maybe go too far sci-fi. But I don't like it's not a pumpkin. He doesn't give pumpkin at all.

SPEAKER_00 41:55

Right, but it comes from a poem.

SPEAKER_05 41:57

Yeah, I understand. It doesn't mean it had to.

SPEAKER_03 41:59

I'm totally with you, Ryan. My boyfriend and I were both like, this movie probably would have been much more successful, and mind you, we have no idea how successful this movie was or was not, but it would have been more successful if the title was not Pumpkin Head. That is not a good title for this movie. Doesn't matter that it was based on a poem. I don't know if that poem is real or made up. Like, rewrite the poem for the movie. Call this something else.

SPEAKER_07 42:17

It's more so because the body was buried in a pumpkin patch, and that's why he's called Pumpkin Head.

SPEAKER_03 42:22

Call it Pumpkin Patch, call it Pumpkin Ghost Alien. I don't know. We can workshop the title. Let me take it a time machine and rename this movie. It'll be a huge franchise, bigger than Halloween. When it comes to visuals, obviously, my favorite visual element goes to the hag. She had like perfect hag energy. I think something that they did super well with this was one, her location. The way everything was so overgrown and mossy, and like you could tell that this shack was just overrun. And you're like, now that I'm looking at it, definitely in the right spot for looking for this for this witch. Uh and then they get in there, and the lighting in there was like so specific and so of a certain time of day at all times. And I think something that they did really effectively as well was the the way she was always like fiercely backlit, and there was always like a strong hair light that was like making her scraggly hag hair look even wispier and more like spooky than it already did. And then it also like got really great contrast with the textures of her haggy skin. And I just think that this hag was the star of the movie. And I just loved everything that happened within that space.

SPEAKER_05 43:24

Yeah, I didn't give my favorite visual yet because I knew that would be yours, Paris. It is also mine. Of course. If it's not like the house and the country, like Alexa said, it's the hag. And like I could not love more when she just calls his first and last name. Like he doesn't even know where this chick is. He shows up and she's like, Ed Harley. Like, yeah, she knew you were coming, honey.

SPEAKER_00 43:47

Really impressive was at the at the end of the movie where she's burying Pumpkin Head, they showed her. And normally they would never show a character like that in full because it would reveal, you know, part of the costume was weak, or you could see like her normal body. But they like showed her in full force, and she was still 100% hag, fully realized.

SPEAKER_05 44:05

Also, her costume was 65 pounds.

SPEAKER_00 44:07

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 44:08

That hag better work.

SPEAKER_06 44:09

Yeah. No wonder she was bent over like that.

SPEAKER_07 44:12

65 pounds of skinny hag. Obviously, the hag was quite a star of the show. And I think, you know, really she's a whole mood. The idea of someone just showing up to your home, your place of work, demanding services from you that are so far out of scope, it's maddening, honestly. But I think one of my favorite visual elements is actually how this movie plays with its lighting. There's very intentional idyllic lighting. I, you know, obviously in the home or in the store earlier in the film, we have the sun rays coming in, and we actually also have the sun rays hitting Billy as he dies. And from that point on, bright light and warm lighting is absolutely absent from the film. Which is ironic because you end up getting like some some warm tones with like the fire and everything later. But as Billy's light extinguishes from his life, so does it extinguish from Ed. And that's what really just drove a lot of the emotional undertones in this movie. But the lighting was also phenomenal as Pumpkinhead went on his rampage. And really my favorite scene is when the group of folks go to the church and you're thinking, oh, this is some unholy thing. Clearly we'd be safe on hollowed ground. And Pumpkinhead storms in with blue lightning with a lot of theatrics. He throws some crucifix around, like he's like, Oh, a church? What's this? Never heard of her. And he just goes to town, and it really shows that, like, although Pumpkinhead is a demon, he's the demon that's inside all of us, and not necessarily the whole concept of like a god versus a devil and the spirituality at play there. Like you can't just ward him off like you've seen a demon ward it off in, like, let's say the Exorcist. This is a whole different ballgame.

SPEAKER_03 45:51

Honestly, Chris, this movie absolutely had a lot of those deeper allegorical themes within it that you were mentioning. But for me, I don't know that they were the most successful. And I think that has to do with like the motivations of our main character. My favorite scene is when the dad arrives to the Hag's home and says, Hey, here's my dead son. Uh, let's see what options we have available. Uh, and then she's like, Okay, this is what we can do, this is what we can't do, let's go. And as much as I loved that scene, I didn't quite know if the child was dead at that point because it was so confusing. First of all, the way they just kind of like threw the child in this in the dirt bike scene. Like, they threw that child on the ground. You want to talk about a yeet, Mac? That child was yeeted. And I was like, that was aggressive, but I didn't think he was dead, and then he was blinking and he was visibly breathing, and I was like, okay, he's not dead. And then it was just so unclear when the child died because the dad didn't necessarily react, and the child was wiggling, making sounds, blinking, moving his little face, and I had no idea what the hell was going on the whole time.

SPEAKER_05 46:57

He was trying to act. It was perfectly clear when that child died because he let out his last breath and said, Daddy. And then after that, his face was covered with a blanket. He was dead at that point.

SPEAKER_07 47:10

Mm-hmm. Absolutely. He took his dying breath. And it's one of those things where it's like, okay, you're thinking about the father probably acknowledging, like, you're so far away from help, your child is mortally wounded. He's probably just trying to like get him home, get him comfortable, and just hold him and enjoy his last moments with him. And again, we have that light pouring in from the window, and we think about the extinguishing of his young life ahead of its time. He died after taking that last breath, and then Ed is just holding him and holding him close, and you can see that like sadness in his eyes.

SPEAKER_05 47:41

I will be honest, I could see that if you didn't connect with these characters at all at the beginning, you wouldn't care about any of this because it really they really, really bank on the fact that you're gonna care about that boy dying and like the father and like root for the father.

SPEAKER_06 47:56

I I do like the father. I think he's great, especially those moments you get before this happens. I don't know if maybe it wasn't enough, but you could tell he's like, it's a story time, you know, there's that bond that they have there, and you don't need to know about what happened to the mom, but know that something happened. And he stepped in and is taking great care of this child. I'm not sure maybe if it just didn't hit me on the head either, but I don't know. I compare this to when the child died in Pet Cemetery, and I felt that hit me more than this did. And I don't know why. I don't think it's because I knew it was coming, because I've seen this movie so many times, I was anticipating it. And this I just didn't know what was going to happen. So maybe it caught me off guard and I still haven't had time to process it per se. But I don't know. It just didn't hit me like that.

SPEAKER_07 48:42

Well, it's also interesting because the reaction that we see is is very different in how two fathers process their grief. One goes for the reconciliation of like, how do I accept his loss? I don't. I'm a doctor, I'm supposed to save people from dying. I want to save him from death. I want to bring him back and restore my family. Whereas the other man, he's not a doctor, he's just a humble grocer, right? Like he runs this little small business with his son. And all he knows, like he's already lost his wife. He has no family to restore, so to speak. So he wants vengeance and suffering for the pain that he now suffers. And I think that's really, really interesting. I think this one actually hit me harder than Pet Cemetery. I cried during the book in Pet Semary. I think I cried during the remake, but for some reason, despite how damn adorable that gauge is, it didn't hit me quite the same. But the lack of how sudden this was, like we see him injured and we think, like, okay, is there a way that he's gonna pull through? And then you just see this really sad death. You see him die in his father's arm during for the story time they did just hours before at the beginning of their day. Ooh, devastating.

SPEAKER_00 49:53

So that that's my favorite scene of the movie is right before all this happens when he runs up and finds that his son you know is fallen, and we get such great emotion on screen from him. It's it's so insane. He doesn't burst into tears, he doesn't like drop under the ground and he's all helpless and flail and flailing. No, he grabs his son and he goes back to his house. He wants to try to like either mend him or make him comfortable, like he said. And when he's told, Oh, it was an accident, just flipping a switch, just fiery rage towards the kids. And that's such a different reaction that we get in most moves movies. They're just they can't help it. They're lost. They don't know what to do, they don't know, you know, they're like, call somebody, somebody else take care of my child. He's like, give me my kid, and I'm gonna mess you up if you even look at me the wrong way afterwards. This was the most memorable moment of this movie to me. More memorable than Pumpkinhead is his reaction to finding out that his only living family, his legacy is is gone.

SPEAKER_06 50:49

I feel like a bad person because my favorite scene isn't like as deep as all of this. It's you know how funny Pumpkin Head is. That doesn't make you a bad person. It doesn't, it just makes me uh shallow. No, I'm kidding. I'm not shallow. You're just having a good time, and that's okay. I was like, hey, I'm here for Pumpkinhead. I really thought I was getting, you know, trick-or-treat. But that aside, yeah, I really like the little plays that Pumpkinhead had. And Ryan, you mentioned a bunch of them, but one specifically I like, and it's so quick, is when the girls are in the cabin walking around, and Pumpkin Head is just casually walking by the window. And to me, it was shocking and it caught me off guard, but I was like, that's so brilliant. Like, no one's watching him, no one's paying attention, and he's just like, oh, and we see it more vengeful in movies than this. This is just a very casual walk, which is I think why I like that kind of comedic value.

SPEAKER_05 51:46

Those were definitely some of the best parts of the movie. He is really funny. As I said before, I was completely sucked in at the beginning. For me, my favorite scenes are all the cute moments that we have with father and son. I just can't help it. And honestly, I thought the dog was gonna die in this movie. I thought we were gonna lose a dog. So when we lost a son, I was completely unprepared. I was like ready for dog vengeance, and then when we lost son, I was like, um, okay, things are gonna get a little more serious than I was expecting. I thought this was gonna be a garbage movie. Uh now things are things are intense. So those are all my sweet moments. I just have to like point out the sign that said Harley Grocery, and then they had added and son. So it said Harley and Son Grocery. Are you kidding me? It's the cutest thing I've ever seen in my life.

SPEAKER_00 52:30

It does have a certain glow in that part of the movie, and it like makes you kind of feel good to see them interact. Like this father obviously loves his son, and this son obviously loves the father. And I think they it was effective on some of us, like some of us were able to like feel that connection and give a crap about these two. Maybe not everyone, but like it is it's got a little cheese to it, but I think it needs to have a little cheese to it because it's not the typical like, hi son, I love you. Let's go get the mail or something. He's like, you know, he's kind of joking with him a bit and he's like teaching him stuff at the same time. And I feel like it really showed like real humans on screen.

SPEAKER_05 53:04

I agree. And on the complete other end of that spectrum are the city folk that showed up. Okay. There could not be less enjoyable people, especially, especially Joel. Who is that? As soon as he opened his mouth, I was like, literally, I was texting Chris and was like, wow, for some reason I feel like I'm gonna like enjoy this. And then Joel spoke, and I truly text her and said, never mind. His first line, I was like, I'm tapping out. I don't want to be a part of this.

SPEAKER_00 53:35

Joel's got major date rape vibes going on.

SPEAKER_05 53:38

He's got all kinds of criminal vibes and uh beats people and hits people. Like he hit like three women in this movie, knocked them to the ground, drunk and drove, killed a child, already had previous issues where he may have killed somebody in accident. Like, I've never wanted to not watch a movie with a character more than when he showed up. And I am so glad that the group of people that show up to a country gas station or something like that are the people we don't have to care about in this movie. It's so refreshing. It's so rare. I love it.

SPEAKER_03 54:06

And of course, I thought he was hot.

SPEAKER_06 54:09

Of course you thought someone with toxic was hot. He was hot, he was just horrible.

SPEAKER_03 54:14

He was horrible, absolutely. But I'm glad we can agree he was hot.

SPEAKER_05 54:18

That's why he drove the car. Of course he was, but like hated him.

SPEAKER_03 54:22

Also, his girl was so hot. The two of them together, I was like, y'all just leave this scenario, stop being garbage and go start an OnlyFans.

SPEAKER_06 54:30

I don't know. His reaction, like, I think just made everything worse. Like, there's things that he could have said, but instead, just his reaction right after that moment of hitting the child was horrible. And he was just so stereotypical. Like he had the jacket, she had the hair, she had like, you know, the eyebrows for this look. Like everyone was so on point for this, but I felt like they all did a good job. It wasn't overly cheesy, it was their characters, it was what they were meant to do. I do like Chris though, like, because I thought he was out for a second and then he came back to life. And I was like, whoop, let me take him off the death count real quick.

SPEAKER_00 55:12

Most of these characters ended up being trash at some point, but for a good portion of it, some of them were actually okay where they're like calling him out on being a horrible douchebag. They're like, Joel, no, like do the right thing. We're gonna call the cops, and it just made him look that much worse when he would prevent them from doing the right thing.

SPEAKER_07 55:29

Let me just say though, if we were on a trip and one of you made a mistake and then said, Oh, they're gonna fry me if they cash me doing this again, we're not friends, bro. Like, we're not what? Not again.

SPEAKER_03 55:44

That's that's the questioning.

SPEAKER_07 55:46

Not only is it the inability to take accountability for a clear accident, but also be the again part of it? What the fuck? What was the decision-making process aside from there being a brotherly bond here? Only two of these people are related. The rest of them could have just fucked right off.

SPEAKER_05 56:05

Listen, one of our patrons, Nathan, mentioned that we didn't get enough satisfaction by having Joel as the last kill or one of the biggest kills, first or last. I would have taken first or last. And that is such a great point because it was not satisfying to have him just killed in the middle. Like he deserved that cross in his head. I know it didn't make sense. I understand why it was done to her, but he deserved like misery. Okay. I needed a big climax kill with that.

SPEAKER_00 56:33

It's funny that we kind of hate them way more than any other characters in the movie. Even like the the country family that shows up with all the kids, like they just ended up being kind of endearing, even though they're like bullying one of their own siblings.

SPEAKER_05 56:45

Sure, but like that's what kids do, especially when there's 500 of you.

SPEAKER_00 56:49

Right. But I I enjoyed when they showed up. I enjoyed a little bit of my imbiolic showing up. Like that was cool.

SPEAKER_05 56:55

This is dumb, but this movie made me realize why cul-de-sacks exists now because it used to just be like families living in a group together, like kind of like sharecropping land, like sharing animals, sharing crops and stuff. And then at some point they were like, let's just like put them in around a circle and like put a street on the way, and then we'll all live around together, but we won't live in the same house. Like, this is probably how cul-de-sacks became a thing. Don't know why I think about things like that during movies, but I do.

SPEAKER_03 57:23

Is that true?

SPEAKER_05 57:24

It feels very logical, so I hope so.

SPEAKER_03 57:27

Honestly, it sounds true.

SPEAKER_05 57:29

How could you know? I say it with confidence.

SPEAKER_03 57:32

Did we talk about the curly-haired brother from Spy Kids? Because I found him to be surprisingly compelling. At first, I was like, okay, throw away hobo child from big hobo family. And then he came in and he kind of was like, Yeah, I know where the hag lives, I can show you. And I was like, okay, whatever. And then he came back around and I was like, actually, I kind of like this kid. He had sort of an endearing quality to him where he was obviously sort of figuring out where he stands morally within the events that occurred, because yeah, he did kind of facilitate the resurrection or reincarnation or ritual for Pumpkin Head by delivering this vengeful man to the hag. But then he was also like, oh, but the pumpkin head is actually real into killing all of your friends. Let me see if I can do anything to stop that. And I found him to actually be a really endearing kid. And I think like at that age, it's difficult to be a compelling and interesting actor, and he did a very good job of that.

SPEAKER_00 58:26

Usually when a character like like like he was, usually when they show up, you just know that they're gonna be cheesy or they're gonna be all about jokes and you're just gonna hate them. And I was worried when we get to that part where he like shows up again and has a major influence in the story that I was gonna be like, oh god, a throwaway character. But in in the end, you're kind of like, dude, this this kid's actually kind of useful. Like it's not a bad addition.

SPEAKER_05 58:48

Honestly, aside from everybody from the city, all the rest of the characters were pretty enjoyable, I'd say. I hated the characters the least in this movie, and that literally that's why I slashed it. Because usually in the 80s it's misery.

SPEAKER_00 58:59

So some characters we haven't even talked about at all were in that intro scene. What was surprising to me is it was the worst part of the movie for me, basically ruining Pumpkin Head up front. But the way that the the characters are like defending their home and like keeping their family locked in and not letting this dude in because they know what's about to happen, it does kind of set the tone later. And you you're you're thinking like when he finally makes it over to that family, he's like, Come on, let me in, and and I'll you know, I'll shoot my way in. It's like, oh, okay, here we are repeating the past, and for good reason.

SPEAKER_07 59:31

It also goes to speak on vigilante justice, right? And how many times in small towns do people just turn a blind eye? So we think about you know all the hoopla we went through with Halloween kills last year, and how the whole town of Haddonfield turns itself onto Michael Myers, and then at one point you stop and think, wow, it feels so weird that a whole town is out here trying to beat some old man's ass, right? But then you wonder, okay, but how bad does it have to get for the whole town to be in on it and then just think that this is morally acceptable? And I think obviously scaling that down into the folklore of this particular community, and it's just really interesting to say, you know, the relationships you have, how much do they matter? And what would you do to protect your own family, but not step up and help those around you? I feel like I would have kept the door locked.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:23

Honestly, same.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:25

It's like a thing that we know happens in our town. You like kill somebody, somebody might go make a blood pact to get you killed by a monster. Like if that yeah, like I'm closing I'm locking the door, you're not coming in. Like, leave my family alone. Goodbye. I know what you did. You killed that woman, it's fine.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:39

None of my business.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:41

I think if it was a stranger situation, I would, but I think if it was like a close friend, I don't know that I completely would. What if you know you're a close friend? Killed that woman.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:50

And and this is where we miss out a little bit on the future of Pumpkinhead, because in reality, they don't really have to worry unless they're one of the targets.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:57

Exactly. And I got that sense, so I'm like, yeah, for sure, just keep people out. I will say my worst part is the same as what you said, Mac, in the beginning, the way he's so spoiled in the beginning. Like, we could have just had a silhouette of that kill, and that's it. And then we'd have been like, what is that? And then it takes so long to get there. It would have been so nice to not have it spoiled at the beginning. And then also all the antics that happen with the city folk, those are those are my two worst parts.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:21

I think for my best part, it's gonna have to be the lore of Pumpkin Head. Like, I do love this idea, and it honestly, even though I gave this a hack, makes me still want to watch the rest of the franchise because I'm like, oh, it must be somewhat okay. And you know how I am about watching one. I'm like, oh, let me just watch the rest of them, just like Reck was. I will say those did not go as well. But I'm hoping I could probably get some of the gore that I wanted. You know, I don't think I'll get the story, the awesome story that you get in this one, in the others, but I think the lore is the best part of this movie.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:55

Alexis, you are so generous with these movies, and that is something I've always admired about you. Even if you hack it, you're willing to see more. Even though I did hack this movie, it's not like a full garbage, bullshit hack. It's a, oh, I can definitely see some really redeeming qualities to this movie. I think the best parts have to be the creature design for Pumpkinhead, the really great practical effects that they used, a lot of the lighting when they showed Pumpkin Head. I'm thinking of the time when he's in the church, or like the old broken down church, and there's like that fog and like the backlight, a lot of really great use of resources that were available at the time when this movie was made, and then of course the hag. I think we did some really great things with lighting and with character design in this film.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:35

Oh my god, you just reminded me of my actual favorite visual element, and it's the pumpkin patch. It's so creepy with all the fog and everything when he's like climbing up there. Better late than never.

SPEAKER_07 1:02:48

I think there's uh plenty to love about this movie. I think there's plenty to be eh indifferent to, but really the overall worst part for me is the sound design in this movie. And maybe this is just me, but it was so difficult to hear this movie. And I don't really I'm not like an audiophile, I don't like really have particularly great speakers. I just listen to however it comes out of my TV, which is probably maddening to a lot of people. But no matter what I watched this on, it was a struggle and a burden to understand. And that just didn't feel great. And I really hope that if this were like, let's say there's a Blu-ray out there, if this movie is remastered, if it's re-released, or even if it's remade, I would love to hear what this movie should have actually sounded like so I could fully appreciate all elements of it. But that being said, I'd be willing to watch more movies in the franchise, but probably not this one. I think it's good. I'm so glad I saw it. But I think I have the emotions, I think I have the struggle to hear it, I think I'm good to just experience others and not this.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:52

I've seen it before and I'll see it again.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:54

Like I said, I probably won't watch this one again, but I'll definitely continue watching the franchise and let y'all know if it got worse or better.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:02

I'm like down for whatever. I'm not dying to see this again, but I'd watch it. I am so intrigued by sequels, so whenever Pumpkin Head 2 pops up, I'll be excited.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:11

Here's the thing I don't want to watch this again, but this movie needs to be remade.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:16

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:17

Remake it in a way where the sequence of events where the child dies is much more compelling, and it's like, oh holy shit. Like, give give me that hereditary level like child death that like rocks a community, and then bring Pumpkinhead into the mix with updated effects. Give me the full fantasy. This is dying for a remake, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:37

I don't support that vision, but I do support the remake. But good lord, please no hereditary vibes, please.

SPEAKER_07 1:04:43

Okay, so it sounds like we have some potential here in the franchise to learn about, but let's see if there's anything further that Matt can teach us about this film, in fact or fiction.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:53

Number one, the film was originally titled Demon Born The Vengeance.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:58

Fiction. Yeah, fiction.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:59

I want this to be a fact, so give me a better title. Go, fact. This is a fiction, but it was originally titled as Vengeance the Demon for some stupid reason. But as the Laurentus Entertainment Group filed for bankruptcy before a release, United Artists ended up renaming it before they released it to Pumpkinhead. It's a Vengeance demon. That name makes perfect sense. It does, but it's not as compelling as Pumpkin Head. Like, what a memorable name, Pumpkinhead. It's weird. It just reminds me of being a baby.

SPEAKER_07 1:05:28

Could you imagine Jack Skellington? And I'm Jack the Pumpkin Head.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:34

The Pumpkin King.

SPEAKER_07 1:05:36

I don't know, it doesn't have the same ring to it.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:38

Number two, Gypsy the Good Doggo. Was played by Mushroom, the same canine actor from Gremlins.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:43

I'm gonna say fact because that seems so cool.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:46

I will say fact as well because that dog was acting, and this can't have been its first job. Ryan, what's the answer?

SPEAKER_05 1:05:52

It's a fact. And you know, he did seem familiar.

SPEAKER_07 1:05:55

Okay, but can we appreciate that moment where he's in Billy's toy box hiding from Pumpkin head, what a cutie. Oh my god, yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:02

Number three, Lance Henrickson accepted the role of Ed because of the scene with the country family arriving to the shop. He stated it reminded him of his humble beginnings in upstate New York in the forties and fifties.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:13

I think upstate New York had way much more snow than this. Um I'm gonna say fiction. Because you probably changed it slightly. A fact because I'm trusting.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:22

I can confirm there are no like dusty mountainous canyons in upstate New York, so I'm gonna say fiction.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:29

This one is a fiction. But he did accept it due to the scene in which his dead son sits up and says, What have you done, Daddy? What have you done? He hit that and he knew this is me. And number four. The cabin used in the film was considered for the final shots of the movie, but the barn scene was added as the low budget of the film was not enough to cover any damages to the rental cabin.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:49

I'm saying fiction because didn't you say this was three million for the budget?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:52

Which is low.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:53

Oh, low? Oh, interesting. Okay, well I'm still gonna keep it fiction. I'm gonna be trusting again with a fact.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:58

I'm gonna say fiction because even though apparently that is a low budget, uh, I'll take three million dollars. Uh apparently none of it went to the special effects because they were able to do such amazing things. So, fiction.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:09

This is a fiction. I just made it up. But it was the same cabin from Friday the 13th, the final chapter.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:15

Which wasn't the final. That's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:17

And that's been fact or fiction.

SPEAKER_07 1:07:19

Well, there you have it, folks. Pumpkin Head from 1988 has earned three slashes and two hacks, which I didn't really expect coming into this tonight. Now we've certainly had a lot to talk about here, but it doesn't end here by any means. We want to know what you think. Where do you stand on the Pumpkinhead franchise? Let us know. You can join in on the conversation by hanging out with us for free over in our Discord, and you can click the link in our show notes to sign up.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:42

If you've enjoyed listening to this episode, consider becoming one of our patrons. Visit patreon.com slash hacker slash to enjoy more of the show with early access, extended episodes, bonus content, and live shows.

SPEAKER_07 1:07:54

We'll see you next time, folks, and remember for each of man's evils, a special demon exists. Bye.