217: Rosemary's Baby (1968)

SPEAKER_02 0:04

That's because the oppression of the patriarchy is timeless and unrelenting, and the rent prices are still really high. Greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hacker Slash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. You name a place, and I've been there. If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack. A total joke, a waste of time, or a slash.

SPEAKER_01 0:32

Totally killer, pun intended.

SPEAKER_02 0:34

We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, we're rating these movies with the perspective we've gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast. This week I'm joined by the Superfly Space Guy Mac.

SPEAKER_01 0:48

Hola, muchachos.

SPEAKER_02 0:49

And the cowardly creeper Ryan. Hiya. This week we're commemorating the 54th anniversary of a film that has been historically considered to be terrifying. Before we head down to business, though we had some follow-up.

SPEAKER_04 1:00

Our follow-up this week is for The Descent. Unsurprisingly, it was a resounding slash, 97% slash among our listeners.

SPEAKER_02 1:08

Yeah, that doesn't surprise me at all. It got a lot of love, but I know that it was pretty divisive when we got down into the Juno of it all. It's very true.

SPEAKER_04 1:16

There was a lot to say about Juno. So we have a couple of comments. One from Ashley, one of our patrons, and she says, I've been waiting for this episode as this is the first time I've watched a movie specifically for the podcast. I never saw this movie when it first came out, and as the years went on, never really had any interest. But the night I did finally watch it, from the moment I got my first shock, the car moment, I was all in. I enjoyed it so much I had to immediately jump into the sequel the same night. I feel for the main character, and I would have followed her anywhere, even if I usually hate creature feature type movies.

SPEAKER_02 1:46

The real question is, which one was your main character? Very true. Open to interpretation, I'd say.

SPEAKER_04 1:53

And then Tony over on Discord said, Hey Hacker Slash, Lila and I watched the descent together for the pod. I was afraid that she would think it was a slow burn and hack it. When we talked about the movie during the credits, she was talking about these ladies the same way she spoke about the sorority girls in the 1974 version of Black Christmas. I mean, she spoke deep about Sarah's loss, about Beth knowing, and for how long? Like, did she only find out the day of the accident? And I can say Lila is for sure not hashtagging Justice for Juno. Lai and I watched the proper version of this movie, the UK Canadian version, therefore there's no obligation to watch a cash grab sequel with lots of gore and a dark ending. Lila and I both give the descent a slash.

SPEAKER_02 2:30

Okay, Lila, you are growing up to have fantastic opinions. I still defend Juno and would die for her. Not literally, it would suck to have Juno as a friend, but I do believe she deserved better. Well, we'll see if this week's movie fares as strongly as the Descent did, because this week we're exploring a film that's made its mark as a faithful adaptation of a 1967 novel. The story follows a young woman's experience as she not only moves into a new home, but also celebrates a pregnancy with her husband until she begins to suspect nefarious intentions from everyone around her. This week, for the first time on the podcast, we're talking about Rosemary's Baby. Now, who's seen this one before?

SPEAKER_01 3:11

I have seen this before, um, but I've also seen the end scene on YouTube probably about 200 times.

SPEAKER_02 3:17

That's a lot for this end scene. How far back into the end are we talking?

SPEAKER_01 3:21

We're talking about the most prominent scene at the end of the movie, the one that's probably pretty memorable. And I've seen it, you know, you've seen it like featured in all these crazy horror movie endings or movies about cults or Satanists or whatever. It's just like I've come across it so many different times.

SPEAKER_04 3:37

That is so specific. Well, I mean, you know I haven't seen this. Obviously, I've heard of it, but that's about it. I just know that something called Rosemary's Baby exists.

SPEAKER_02 3:46

I've seen this one before, and we've briefly discussed it when we watched the horror anthology XX, which features a story that is kind of like a what if Rosemary's Baby continued and we see what would have played out after this movie. Uh, perhaps even years down the line. Now, it's something though that I realized I haven't perhaps seen as an adult. I thought I did, but as I experienced this, I was really thinking back to I don't know that I've ever watched this with the full wherewithal that I have now. I feel like I only watched this when I was a kid. And so even going into it, really, like being a little fuzzy on the memory of when I last watched it, I expected this A to not only be a slow burn, but B be a little bit difficult to get through. Not because of any particular feelings I had about the movie itself, but because when I saw this, it was pre-discovering what there is to know about Roman Polanski. Now we won't discuss a lot of that, I imagine, here tonight. I will include some links in the show notes if you'd like to educate yourself or read up on that. But when I saw this movie for the first time, the only thing I knew about Roman Polanski is that his wife was Sharon Tate and she was murdered in the Manson family murders. That was all there was to know. So to experience this, again with context and then the context of just living life as a woman, it was an interesting ride. But what were you expecting?

SPEAKER_04 5:12

You know, there are some things in this world that I don't know nearly enough about. And I know it seems obvious because every week I say I've never seen this movie, but Roman Polanski is one of those things that I've just kind of avoided his entire lexicon, I think. I know he exists and I know that uh he's not one of our great heroes in the world. So fortunately, I wasn't influenced by that at all. But with that being said, I didn't know what to expect at all with Rosemary's Baby. I mean, once once you start getting into it, you kind of get an idea. It's not like the most surprising storyline from start to finish, but I will say this could have been anything when I started watching it.

SPEAKER_01 5:49

Expectation-wise, I just thought about a movie from the 60s. Like I knew what was going to happen, but I figured it was gonna have that kind of pace. I know you mentioned slow, slow burn, but I also think it's kind of more of a slow build that we get. So two hours and fifteen minutes seems crazy enough these days, but when you think about like a two-hour, 15-minute movie from 1960s, you know you're gonna be in it for a bit of a ride, whether eventful or otherwise. So I had kind of put it off for a few days when I was going to watch it because I just knew that like this was going to take some time. Not necessarily effort, except to sit there and watch it, but I knew that it was gonna take a little bit of investment to really make it make it through.

SPEAKER_02 6:28

I can understand that, especially with the runtime of this movie, right? This movie is two hours and 17 minutes, and it's not only an investment of time, but really uh an investment of energy and an investment of emotion. Again, as a younger person watching this, I thought, okay, this is really spooky, or this is uh very culty. We think about just what was happening in America during this time. Obviously, this is a point where we have big city life in the late 60s. We think about the transformation of America during this time. This is a point where we have Tom Savini serving in the me in the Vietnam War. And we're at this point in cinema where horror is reflection of so many different beliefs and ideologies, and it's like this is the worst thing that we could possibly imagine. What I did not know was that this was based on a novel. I never knew that. I thought this was a wholly original film, and I've always kind of classified this in my mind in terms of like the ranking of things with being in the exorcist territory. And uh while I was watching this, I found myself way more entertained watching this than The Exorcist. Now, I think I've shared even in the Exorcist episode or perhaps in episodes past where I personally feel that I lack the fundamental spirituality required to make those films terrifying. And I respect that they are for so many people. And it's something that like spooky supernatural films or you know things associated with the devil or things of this nature, right? Like things that you would typically expect, like this is supposed to be scary, it just doesn't do it for me. But I found that this movie doesn't rely on things like that. Like a lot of what's horrific about this movie is stuff that's still prevalent today. And a lot of it is just the treatment of other people with a really sinister undercurtain.

SPEAKER_01 8:24

Yeah, I mean, if this movie was only a movie about gaslighting domineering rapists, it would be just as captivating. I think it's just it's pretty effective at making you grind your teeth for two hours.

SPEAKER_04 8:35

Yeah, I mean, I definitely felt this runtime. It is long and it is a journey. It's not a fast journey, it's a slow and steady one. I think my biggest feeling through this was super chill. Which is not really probably what what people are going for with horror, but when I think about this versus like what it feels like to watch like the birds or even something like Night of Living Dead, like kind of in the same, you know, in the same decade at least. Birds was a little bit before, but it just this movie doesn't feel as dated as that. It it feels better, which I'm thankful for because I was fully prepared to be like, God, another like 60s, hard to listen to, hard to watch, hard to deal with, like I just wasn't really in for it. Crazy dialogue. I I I just wasn't I didn't have very high expectations for anything coming out of the 60s, you know, but this feels a lot better than some of those other things.

SPEAKER_01 9:33

That was honestly something that surprised me was I don't know if it's the plot or just like the characters that we get and the relationships they have, but it definitely seems timeless. The fact that it's set in '66 makes sense for the story, absolutely. But I also think you could pull this out and set it in 1996, and it would work just as equally. But I think watching it however many years later, the story, the struggles, the crisis, the many crises, honestly, all work no matter the decade. Obviously, we would have like, you know, cell phones and stuff. It was set modern days, but the stuff that's happening to the to our main character and stuff that's happening between characters, I think is completely applicable no matter the year.

SPEAKER_04 10:13

Oh, I totally agree. I feel like it feels so familiar, just as like a general plot line, the characters, the relationships, and and how things go. It feels like this movie's been remade four four or five times. And I don't think that it has, but it there's so many things that you can draw from it that it this doesn't feel like it's 50 years old necessarily.

SPEAKER_02 10:36

That's because the oppression of the patriarchy is timeless and unrelenting. And the rent prices are still really high. I think that's the beauty of having a timeless story. And also what is disappointing about this story, not actually about the story, this isn't a knock at the movie, some knock at the story. I think what is disappointing is just how damn relatable it still is. And I hate that. I really hate that. It's something that made my skin crawl while I was watching this movie. One could watch this and think, well, the way that that rosemary is treated is not exactly what happens today. No, and you're right, right. Obviously, there are differences in how we move through the world now, but there's this particular brand of imposition and gaslighting and uh discrediting one another that still persists and just leaves a nasty damn taste in your mouth. And it's something that made for a really enriching experience watching this. One of the things that other that really, really surprised me, despite how you know original this movie feels, despite how separate this movie feels from so many others or from its time, is that I did not think about Roman Polanski when I was watching this movie. And I think that's a mark of success for everybody else involved.

SPEAKER_04 11:54

Yeah, I think that's a good thing. You know, there's so many of these old movies with directors that have such a bad reputation, and then that kind of paints a film over the movie in a way. And I don't think this is this one does.

SPEAKER_01 12:08

Thankfully, because the performances we get are strong enough to lift us away from the evil that the director committed and then escaped from.

SPEAKER_04 12:17

With that being said, I mean, for me, this is a psycho thriller. I don't know how it's classified, and I don't even know when people started calling things psycho thrillers, but in that frame, it's not scary, you know? That's not what psycho thrillers are for. They're really just to like creep you out, but not to scare you. I think there was maybe one attempt at like a jump scare in this movie, and it certainly didn't do anything.

SPEAKER_01 12:39

It is tough because the stuff that made people afraid back then does not really scare us these days. I mean, that's probably a good thing, but it it does lose its effectiveness as horror, I think, until you reach a few points throughout the movie. And then there's a few points that are absolutely, like you mentioned, Chris, completely relatable, quite unfortunately, still these days, and those moments are absolute horror. But like the rest of the movie doesn't play out like a like a jump scare blockbuster kind of situation here. There's moments that are really deep, and that should like just make you petrified.

SPEAKER_02 13:09

It's unsettling, is really what it is. And it reminds me of this thought of uh, let's say, you know, someone is cutting jokes with you and you're laughing along, or let's say like a stand-up comedian, even, and you're laughing along and they're making jokes at everybody's expense, and then they start making jokes at your expense, but then it kind of stops feeling like a joke. It's more like they're just snapping out of comedy and talking about how much you suck or are horrible as a person, and obviously I have nothing against animal comedians. It's almost like you know, thinking about horror and thinking about some of the escape that a lot of these movies provide. They think back to a time or really look back to wow, wouldn't it be great if this was the most you could be afraid of? What if I that the worst thing I can imagine was a fucking werewolf in a porn shop? But instead, what's happening is as a society, the real horrors of humanity are upon us and it's washing over us. So the werewolf movies are suddenly real chill. Sometimes a lot of other types of movies are real chill. But then you get to this movie, depending on the day you watch it, depending on the news that you read, it hits you very differently or makes you consider things from different perspectives. And I think that is the real horror of this movie. It's because it's this really unrelenting, serious horror. Obviously, goes in a direction. It's very famously associated with this movie, but I would consider that like a good 10% of the real horror that's like really baked in in every fiber of this movie's being.

SPEAKER_04 14:51

The real horror is any time they start diagnosing things and using the word hysteria.

SPEAKER_02 14:56

Or the crazies.

SPEAKER_04 14:58

Yeah, the crazies, the pre and post-crazies. Gotta love it. So, like I said, I feel like this movie has a lot of details that feel like I've seen them and stuff since. I'm kind of running on an assumption that this was quite original at its time, because I've never seen anything from its time period quite like this, even though it feels very familiar now.

SPEAKER_01 15:16

I feel the same way. It I think the effect that it had on people was probably very singular. I think there's a lot of a lot of stuff out there, a lot of media that uses this as a basis and tries to get the same feeling of the movie, especially when you're thinking about am I crazy, am I not? Is the character crazy? Are they not? I think a lot of a lot of films, a lot of TV tries to like get that same feeling you get in this movie. If you've seen it before, it it hits obviously very different, but I I think of it as still feeling very original. And having seen so much other stuff that like seems like it, it still is so distinct.

SPEAKER_04 15:50

I think it's interesting too, though, because satanic panic is like such a later thing, even though it's so important in the story. But I mean, you know, we're talking a couple of decades before it became a big part of our existence.

SPEAKER_02 16:05

That is an interesting call-out, particularly because you think about like this really popping off in the 80s. You know, we talked about like House of the Devil, we talked about a number of 80s films that really center around that. But I think what's really cool is this movie's approach to that. Everything what does is it like it challenges what was considered to be wholesome. You know, we think about the Hayes Code that we've talked about in the previous Pride episode a couple years ago, and we think about like what fits in the box of what we deem to be acceptable or comfortable or safe, and then what is outside that box? That is for the Hayes Code forbidden, and you cannot share, you can not put on screen, and then it requires subtext and different antics or different tactics by the storytellers to really convey certain things and certain intentions. But this movie to do this at this point does feel fresh, it does feel original, but it also, again, surprisingly gets that from a novel. And I think to adapt that that quickly from a novel, so faithfully, I know that a lot of what you know has been said is that Roman Polanski didn't know that he had the authority to not do what was in the book. It's wild to me to see a such a faithful adaptation by all accounts, but then B, for it to be such a timeless success without attempting to really be remade.

SPEAKER_01 17:25

And that probably gives the the the novel's writer way more credit, you know? Thinking about the fact that if it was faithful and it was great, that means this novel was probably also pretty great. You can determine whether or not it's great. We'll talk about that between the three of us here, but I I think the ending was great. I think the ending is very memorable. I think it is featured in a ton of different, you know, video hit lists for a reason. I think making it all the way through, you get this massive build-up and this final release here at the end and the end of the movie, and it's just it can be cathartic, but it can also be even more disturbing than the rest of the film in in ways. But I uh I just even if you forget the rest of the movie, I think you're gonna get that that one facial expression, and that's gonna be in your brain forever.

SPEAKER_02 18:07

Okay, I think that one facial expression was a moment, and it's something that I'm glad will live in the infamy of photography everywhere. You'll find it in your Google Images. But for me, the ending was almost the weakest part. Not necessarily that it was atrocious or terrible. I just think the suspense and uneasiness of the whole movie lost its way there at the end. And I think the events on paper make sense. This is in no way to discredit the talent that was in this moment, right? But it's the fact that there are a few lines of dialogue that made me laugh, but then just where it chooses to end, it just didn't sit quite right for me and feel like, yes, this two hour and 17 minutes felt like this is exactly what I need to spend to arrive at this moment in time and be satisfied in this story.

SPEAKER_04 18:59

You know, I have to agree, I think this movie is a really slow burn. Not that it's boring, but it's a slow burn and it's long, and it takes a long time to get to the end. And then by the time you get there, you you kind of already know what's going on. There's not really a lot of secrets behind it anymore. And I I'm not saying that I dislike the ending, I like the ending. I felt a little bit like I needed something significant and special like to happen at the end.

SPEAKER_01 19:26

There's a lot of ambiguity at the end on purpose, and I think modern audiences probably need a lack of that.

SPEAKER_04 19:32

It's not even that, it's not like I needed more of an explanation. I needed more of like a climactic point because I think the climactic point was already revealed before it was revealed, if that makes sense. Like we already knew what was happening, so when we finally get there, like I was just like, okay, all right. I need a little bit of a little more chaos. I need things to get a little wild in the end.

SPEAKER_01 19:53

There is a detail, I think, from the books that would have changed the movie drastically had they been able to include it. And we can talk about it obviously after the uh after the spoiler break.

SPEAKER_04 20:03

I mostly like needed to see like an eye, you know? Like maybe that would have really done it. It's just it just missed a little something.

SPEAKER_02 20:11

No, Ren, I completely agree with you. I feel like this movie was missing a little bit of something at the end. It feels like if this was a fire that was starting to build slowly, as in a slow burn, it's almost as if when it reaches its opportunity to really just flash and become a roaring flame, it instead just slowly dies and fizzles out. Like you just didn't tend it well enough.

SPEAKER_04 20:38

Yeah, like you you toasted a marshmallow and then the fire went out. And like that's that's it. It wasn't exciting. You didn't you didn't have much there. Just it did its job.

SPEAKER_02 20:48

You made you made a fire and then it burned out. But we'll see how this unease about the ending translates into our actual ratings. But before we get there, how many people died in this film?

SPEAKER_01 20:58

We got a whopping two deaths in this movie.

SPEAKER_02 21:01

And is that being generous?

SPEAKER_01 21:02

Well, uh, it's being pretty generous. I mean, you could say one of them counts, even though it's unseen.

SPEAKER_04 21:08

And what about the animal report? The animal report this week is all good to go, nothing to be worried about. In the 60s, they were too afraid to even imply that animals were getting hurt in these movies.

SPEAKER_02 21:19

Unless you're Alfred Hitchcock throwing live birds at Tibby Hedron. Yeah, it wasn't true, it's just what I'd like to think. Well, let's go ahead and get into our rating then. Rosemary's Baby from 1968. Was it a hacker or slash?

SPEAKER_04 21:31

So I'm gonna give this movie a gentle little slash. The reason it's like a gentle slash is because everything from the 60s so far has been such a hack that this is this is a standout one for me. It doesn't feel as aged as most other things that we've seen from this era. And I d I really did enjoy it. Um, I think they did a good job at the beginning making me care about the characters and Really enjoying this couple. So as things go, I was wondering what was going on. And there's a little bit of like over-the-topness that comes with all of the acting from the 60s. I don't know why things were that way. Maybe humans were just that way, but it's all, you know, a little bit of caricature here and there, a little bit of chaos, and you know, a little bit of stretch in the stories and stuff. But generally it's pretty good. And, you know, it does enough to keep you in, even for this really long runtime, that I was actually quite interested. Again, the ending was like not my favorite thing, but I had been on enough of a journey that I just I just went with it. So I think this is a slash because I didn't hate it. I wouldn't say I'm like super soaked on it, but I'm not mad that I watched it. And now I feel thankful that I've seen something that everyone else considers a classic.

SPEAKER_01 22:50

I'm happy you've seen it. I consider it a classic. I think it's iconic. I think it's also a slash. It is a bit of a slow burn, but I'm okay with that in in most cases. I did put it off because I was worried about the time it was going to take to watch it, but I think it's worth it in the end. I think while you're watching it, it is captivating. I think it's interesting to watch. Mia Pharaoh, honestly, is the biggest reason why you should watch this movie. The acting, the fits, the hair, everything. One of the best performances I think you could get here because it's somebody who's just so perfect for playing a character who seems so nice and so gentle and so innocent, being trapped by all the people around her who are just truly evil and doing evil things to her. So yeah, I mean, I think you get an amazing performance. I think the set is pretty gorgeous as well. It's just everything kind of works visually on screen to keep you watching. Even in the moments that are a little slow, I think you're gonna you're gonna get to points where you're like, I just I can't wait to see what happens next. All the way until the very end. I know you weren't really satisfied with the ending, but I think again, it's Mia Farrow that sells it. I think a facial expression is what makes the ending of this movie, and it's a slash.

SPEAKER_02 23:59

Well, look, I wasn't completely sold on the ending, but it's still a slash for me. This is a movie that does a few things particularly well. One, it drops you into the dynamics of these characters and really hooks you in with really charismatic, relatable people. And then you watch this slow progression of drifting apart, and you can feel this shift of examining the people around you and questioning their intentions and wonder if you truly know them. And it's one of those movies that really walks this fine line of drawing things out over a long period of time, but also making it feel like it was worth the wait. And the way this movie progresses through time with casual lines or subtle markers in the background or certain festivities. I loved being able to get through this pregnancy with Rosemary. It feels like this is all of our baby, right? This is a journey. We're all coming out of the other side of it together. But the best thing that it could possibly do is very clearly depict the importance of bodily autonomy and and control, regardless of what the circumstance is, regardless of any of that. And it's one of those movies that really points out hey, this is someone who is not being allowed to make decisions for themselves. Where are we now in time? And I'm so glad that things have changed the way that they have. But a lot of the subtle microaggressions, some of the dialogue in this movie reminds you that there's so far left to go. But it's the fact that this movie is so well preserved, not just as a product of its time, but really a product of our society that makes this a timeless classic. As disheartening as it is to even say that. But for that, it's a slash.

SPEAKER_04 25:49

Look at us slashing classics with our baby.

SPEAKER_02 25:52

And with that, Rosemary's Baby has earned a universal slash. Now you can find this movie streaming in a few different places, including Epics and Paramount Plus, but check it out. Then join us in the second half so we can unpack all these details together. We'll see you in a bit.

SPEAKER_00 26:22

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SPEAKER_02 27:23

Welcome back, folks. You're now entering the spoiler zone for Rosemary's Baby from 1968, which has shockingly earned a universal slash. Now we have a lot to get to here, but before we get into the specifics of our ratings, we have the matter of gore to attend to, allegedly. Mac, what's the gore score for this movie?

SPEAKER_01 27:39

I'm glad you used the word allegedly because it is pretty darn low. I think the most gore that we get is the hint that there might be blood involved when somebody hits the concrete.

SPEAKER_04 27:48

I mean, we see some blood. There's it's like a it's a pretty gory face, I feel like.

SPEAKER_01 27:54

It's kind of like when they say LaCroix has flavor. Like, look, I love LaCroix, but you know it's like this can of seltzer was near pomegranate.

SPEAKER_04 28:02

I would argue this had a little bit more gore than you might expect for this. That specific kill. I mean, it could have just been a body on the floor. There was at least blood. It was at least like some some hint towards misshapenness.

SPEAKER_02 28:17

You hear that?

SPEAKER_04 28:18

That's the sound of desperation. Listen, I'm not trying to say this was a gory movie, but there was blood, okay. There was at least some catch-up, you know, spread over someone's face.

SPEAKER_01 28:30

There was there was some definitely some bright red blood. There was also some scratch marks that we got later on. I think the goriest part is probably when we see Satan, who is slightly furry for some reason, assaulting the main character.

SPEAKER_04 28:41

He is oddly like a a mix between leprechaun and a bear wolf. Like his hands had the leprechaun like kind of creepiness. Like it's like a little wrinkly furry thing, which was weird.

SPEAKER_02 28:55

Let me tell you what I could not unsee when I was watching this. You both have Netflix, maybe. Perhaps. Perhaps you've visited a cartoon by the name of Big Mouth. Oh my god. Perhaps you know that there's a hormone monster. I do. I'm not saying he looks exactly like the hormone monster, but what I am saying is I got hormone monster vibes in the worst way.

SPEAKER_04 29:18

He doesn't not look like the hormone monster. And that is truly something I didn't need to think about tonight. I'm not gonna lie. I didn't need that. Please don't look this up. Oh, it's creepy and gross.

SPEAKER_02 29:29

There will be a link in the show notes to both Big Mouth and Human Resources.

SPEAKER_01 29:34

Okay, so we we do get a pretty horrific scene with Satan, and we do get some scratch marks, and obviously there's some fake blood, but I think one of the best parts, it's not even gorrelated, is gonna be just like the withering away that we get makeup-wise. We get the dark eyes, we get the just like the whiteness, the extra whiteness to the skin, and I think that went a long way to making this character seem really emaciated.

SPEAKER_02 29:58

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:59

But in the end, she didn't die. We did have a couple of deaths. Which one is your favorite? There's only two to choose from.

SPEAKER_04 30:06

Man, I really love that death of Hutch by coma over a series of months that we didn't know it were happening. Uh, and it was completely off-screen. That was such an incredible kill. It was riveting.

SPEAKER_02 30:17

Okay, but he did come through at the FDN like a real MVP to get her that book just in time. We love some witchcraft from beyond the grave. Oh yes. Pre-grave. Mine is actually the inverse of that, and it is the death we get that is spoken about at the beginning of the movie, before Terrier ever falls out of the window, before Hutch ever dies from his coma. And you get this detail about the fact that that woman was really prominent. She was well connected. Obviously, her neighbors uh were fond of her. But then we see this piece of paper in her apartment that says, I can no longer associate myself. And then you realize later once Hutch falls into a coma and dies, that this wasn't merely just one of their dear friends passing away, but was rather a plot. You kind of get that obviously from seeing that piece of paper. They wouldn't show you that for any other reason. But the confirmation and the link there, I loved it more in retrospect. Chris, you have a great point.

SPEAKER_04 31:16

I'm gonna speak a little bit more about that later because there is a lot about the people who die and are related to these people that we don't really get any of. With that being said, uh, we need to just like all agree here at the same time that Mia Faro is the best visual element of this movie.

SPEAKER_01 31:33

It's actually in my notes. It says Mia Faro's wardrobe, hair, and makeup.

SPEAKER_04 31:37

Specifically, when she comes home and is told she looks horrible, she looks amazing, okay? I wish I could cut my hair and look like this. Are you kidding me? And how dare every person say how bad she looks? Y'all are all hateful. That was Vidal Sassoon, honey, okay? How dare you? I will say, obviously, she did look like she was dying quite a bit. That was really the point. She looked good when she wasn't completely white, but man, they did good with the the effects. It wasn't over the top, it was very simple. And every once in a while you just be like, Man, she is so pale, so skinny, so sallow. It was amazing.

SPEAKER_01 32:16

I do want to go back a second as we continue on with uh our visual analysis here. But quick question was Terry pushed or did Terry jump?

SPEAKER_04 32:24

I think the assumption is that it was by the hands of of of the people, but I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 32:30

Terry exited the window and landed abruptly on the sidewalk. Who's to say?

SPEAKER_01 32:35

I'm gonna say it obviously wasn't the cast of it, so they weren't there at the time. They were out living their life gallivanting around, but there's so many people involved. I think somebody had to have pushed her out. I think she was was target number one, perhaps, to uh give birth to the Satan baby, and like wasn't down for it. And then they realized, yeah, that doesn't work when you just like try to ask them. We just have to make them do it.

SPEAKER_04 32:56

Absolutely. I think that's exactly what they wanted us to assume.

SPEAKER_01 33:00

Okay, so back to Mia Faro, Chris. Obviously, Ryan I agree, but do you have a a different favorite visual?

SPEAKER_02 33:06

Oh yeah. It's not the aesthetic of Mia Faro, although she is a sight to behold and really just holds this whole thing together. I actually really love the sweeping aerial shots that bookend this movie. Because what it did for me was create, Mac, you alluded to earlier off mic, this sense of world building. It's just look at this big vast city and look at all these lives that are happening and taking place here. And then let's zoom in on this one couple. The distance there, the so close and yet so far away there, the I can go to the phone booth and try to call for help and then not realize that almost everybody around me is in on it, and then the people who aren't in on it think I'm crazy there. I love the approach of this being life in the big city, and then being in an apartment instead of a suburban home. I absolutely love that and thought that it was like the perfect backdrop for the story.

SPEAKER_04 34:04

Yeah, you're not wrong. The way that she's quite isolated in this, and and you're right, everybody that's around her is in on it, does such a lovely thing of like building the suspense of is she crazy or is this actually happening? And I think, you know, it's pretty clear that it is actually happening, but watching her realize it and go through all of it is kind of insane. It actually is a part of one of my favorite scenes, which is where she's like putting her foot down, saying, I'm not drinking the drinks anymore. I'm going to my other doctor. I think this is right after the party that she throws, and she's just so strong. She's like, I'm not doing it. I refuse. I know something's going on, something weird is up here, and then the pain stops. And then as soon as the pain stops, she calms it all down and she starts to back down from from her intuition and like what she knows to be true, and then just starts going along with it, building the the nursery, going back to the same doctor, all that. And it's just so realistic, I think, the way she goes through this because no one is gonna be moving into an apartment and think, oh, hey, by the way, I feel like our neighbors are Satanists. No one's gonna say that. You can't just go from I'm chilling, living a regular life, to these people are Satanists trying to take my baby. It just doesn't work like that. That's not a direct path. It will never be that way. So it's lovely to see how real her experiences with this are, where she goes back and forth and feels strongly and then gets convinced otherwise or convinces herself otherwise, has people around her talking to her about it. It it's just a very interesting way they build the story and very realistic, especially for the 60s.

SPEAKER_01 35:40

It's tough for me to pick a favorite scene. There's so many great small scenes that are really effective, probably due to me of Pharaoh. I mean, being in the phone booth, like what a scene where you don't know if the people outside the phone booth are in on it or not, because you know there's this great conspiracy. You know that something's going on, and these random people who just happen to be right there at the right time when you're trying to make these just really important phone call and you can't tell if they're part of it or not. Like, so effective. But I actually really love when we're towards the beginning and we're just sitting with the couple talking to Hutch in the old place. You know, we're we're we're not in the new place really yet. Um, we're still grounded, and what I love is that when it when you realize what's happening there and you and you start trying to figure out later like who's in on this, who's involved, because you I think we as a viewer figure out that the husband is involved. We know that that's a thing. I think when you start factoring in Hutch, you're like, wait, is Hutch in on it? Has Hutch been on this thing the whole time and now we can't even trust him? You just it makes you question the motives of everybody that comes into the picture. But that like initial scene where he gives that history, we gives that backdrop, like you start to use that to question everything later because you're like, man, he knew a lot about what was going on in this this crazy apartment building. Could he have set them up this whole time? Could he have been talking to the husband the entire time about what was gonna happen? But I think it's nice to see them just like getting that little history, that nice little exposition without it feeling like exposition.

SPEAKER_04 37:08

Yeah, we don't have a lot of like, here, let me tell you this thing. So now you know this. This story isn't told to us, it's shown to us, which is really nice. Again, especially for the 60s.

SPEAKER_02 37:19

Except for when it is told to us in the books. Except for that little detail. But it was done in a really effective way.

SPEAKER_04 37:26

You always have to tell the lore.

SPEAKER_02 37:27

And it didn't feel like an additional burden.

SPEAKER_04 37:29

Yeah, there's always some element of like, we have to tell you how this witch thing came about. That's always a thing. But the relationships between the people and the growth and the changes, those are shown to us and not told to us, and that's what I value.

SPEAKER_02 37:42

My favorite scene focuses on a lot of the betrayal that we get. And I think one of the saddest betrayals is not even one that comes from her husband or even comes from these neighbors who we spend so much time with. But she has this doctor in the beginning who I don't know, I don't know that he seems incompetent, but he doesn't really razzle you or dazzle you. But then at the end of it, it's not like he's really in on it, period. He's not a member of the cult. He's not attempting to take her baby, but he does overlook her cries for help because he thinks she's just crazy. And that was a a really heartbreaking moment. And obviously, I've seen this movie, I know what happens, but you're just filled with so much hope in this moment of like, I think we, you know, we can get you, we can get you to the hospital, take me about 30 minutes on the phone. And really setting up all this hope for her, this belief that she's gonna go somewhere and be seen. And I would like to think that that would play differently if uh this movie were to be remade. I'd like to think that maybe it would try to actually get her to to a hospital, but for some reason she's intercepted on the way there or something like that. But it was one of those that with everything that happened leading up to that moment, it just took the wind out of my sails.

SPEAKER_04 38:59

It's interesting. I mean, did you really think that she was gonna find some sort of like refuge? Because I didn't at all. I knew that when she sat on that couch, she was done.

SPEAKER_02 39:08

No, it's not that I walked into this thinking she'd find that refuge. But what I am saying is to know that this guy wasn't even in on it, but she's just a crazy pregnant woman, that sucks. You know what I mean? It's not a situation where, because I've seen this before, I think something else is gonna happen. But you see the hope for her, and she does such a beautiful job conveying that hope, that sense of safety and comfort, and knowing I went back to my doctor, I did the thing, I have been told what to do, where to go, what to read, what not to read, what to put into my body. And I made a choice for myself. And when she made that choice for herself, it didn't work out. It just got her back to where she was started.

SPEAKER_04 39:49

Yeah. And she even knows, like when she calls him, she knows how crazy she sounds. Like one of my favorite things that she says is like, there's a plot against me. There's that there's plot against plots against people, right? Like there are plots that come up against people. Well, I'm one of them. There's a plot against me right now. I know that you don't believe what I'm saying, but you know that people are after other people, right? So then therefore, just because I'm a pregnant woman, I am also now one of the people that people are after. I just enjoy that whole thing. She knows how crazy it all sounds. This movie really is about gaslighting.

SPEAKER_01 40:21

Oh, and that's why I think it hurts when you get to that moment of hope because there's like a decision to be made. Uh, do I trust this person? Do I try to find some outside party to help them? Or do I assume that she doesn't know what she's talking about and call on the people that are literally causing her pain? And it sucks in that moment because I feel like it is a very dated kind of decision. And I don't know that you could play it that way. Like you said, Chris, if you're gonna make this in 2022, there would have there would have to be an attempt. Like these days, I think we just know better. No matter the level of of experience of the doctor, I think they would have to say, okay, maybe I have to call the police based on these accusations, and it wouldn't play out the same. But back then it was just like, Well, you don't know what's best for you. Let me call your husband or the doctor that you're accusing of doing bad things to you.

SPEAKER_04 41:07

Yeah, but again, it it's just the times, it's the hysteria of it all. Like, this is how it had to be in this movie.

SPEAKER_01 41:13

I mean, when you when you go back to it though, like her husband, that whole scene where she wakes up with scratches and he was like, Oh, it was me. You know, you were out, right? Like we cringed. My wife and I just immediately right there, like, just oh, we're just glossing over this, like it's no big deal.

SPEAKER_02 41:29

Absolutely disgusting. Just looking into this scene and looking at the betrayal there. There are so many layers of betrayal, but this in this moment when she realizes that a it's happening, when she wakes up and he she says, You while I was out, and he shares, I didn't want to miss baby night. It was kind of fun in a necrophile kind of way. What the fuck? Under what circumstance? Uh, this is again why I'm so glad we are at this point where we can all acknowledge that's wrong. That is not okay. This woman's body belongs to her, and it's not for her husband's taking. But the surprise there, and even just the modest way she says last night wasn't the only split second, but then she's torn because she's had such a loving relationship up to this point, and it sounds like this had never happened in their marriage before.

SPEAKER_04 42:21

Yeah, this was the hardest part because at the beginning of this movie, I really enjoy the two of them. I enjoyed getting to know their relationship. I liked Guy. I thought, wow, this is a cute little couple and about to be on like a cute little journey. Of course, you know, I should have known better. Someone always goes crazy and goes off the deep end. This is horror. But I really had a soft spot for them and I really liked them. And that scene is just like, what? And yeah, it's like a physical cringe. And then in the end, he just turns out to be the absolute worst, just like a complete D-bag. And you know, he's just excited about his career, and that's not surprising, but it's it's just so repulsive the way he ends up versus how much I enjoyed him in the beginning. But I mean, that's where you gotta be. That's who this story wouldn't have happened if he wasn't who he was. But man, those two characters and the way they interact and start so sweet and so lovely. Nice little new marriage, we're gonna have kids. You know, let's move in the house and and make love on the floor while we don't have any furniture. Like it's cute. I love it. I was supporting it, I was here for it. Boy, did it go downhill. It took a turn, it wasn't a good turn. And I feel like he deserved more at the end, really. He deserved some kind of punishment, and all he got was, oh, we're gonna move to Beverly Hills, we're gonna be in the hills.

SPEAKER_02 43:46

Which is part of why I thought the ending was underwhelming and disappointing for me. I would have loved to see more of that fallout from them and a little bit more accountability. And this movie's long enough. I didn't need 30 more minutes on the Ending, but even just the level of back and forth that we get, things feel cold, they feel distant, and you see this really big disconnect between him acknowledging what what would have been the difference? You had the pregnancy, then you lost the baby. How would you know? But now we have the success. That's fucking wild. Insane, absolutely mind-blowing. But I think that's such a testament to the characters in this movie. And obviously, we have this really core critical cast. We have the cast of its Rosemary and Guy. We even have a couple of the neighbors, but even in the extension of that scene, when Rosemary gets back to the apartment, the horns and the music are blaring. We have Guy and Dr. Saperstein wait racing up the stairs, and she gets into the house trying to call for help. And again, she's so close and yet so far away. And you see two random dudes just chilling in her apartment walking silently in the background. That fucking scared me a little bit. The characters, the scale of the characters in this movie, Chef's Kiss.

SPEAKER_01 45:06

I do love that about the end that it's like this massive party with people that we haven't seen until this point. And there's people who like are just arriving to pay their respect. And it's it's a nice touch because it you can see then from their point of view that this is a massive celebration. There's people from all over the world, and she's just like walking in, like, what the hell are all of you people doing? And I think the thing that might have changed the feeling of the end for for both of you, perhaps, is if we got a little bit of from from the book where Rosemary is like trying, like struggling with the idea of should I kill this child and should I commit suicide? Like thinking about I, you know, I have to do something about this. And I think it would have added on too much time and it would have kind of come out of nowhere for her uh in the movie, but it would have added another, another crisis right there at the end that would have spiced things up a little bit.

SPEAKER_04 45:54

Yeah, I sure do wish she had stabbed somebody. I feel like we were on this road for long enough. Someone needed to get stabbed, but it's okay. It wasn't authentic to her. I think character-wise, uh, you know, like I was saying, I loved Mia and Guy at the beginning. Mia is absolutely incredible in this movie, uh, all the way through, like I was talking about before, very real, but very believable, and very much like trying to do what she thinks is the right thing, even when it's not quite right, or someone else is out to get her. The the the supporting cast, I'm okay with. I wasn't like in love with the couple and the neighbors and all these people. I liked Hutch, but mostly Mia was the home run for me, and she did enough to where I didn't even really care what anybody else was doing or how ridiculous they were being, because I already kind of knew they were evil people.

SPEAKER_02 46:46

So best moment for Mia for me as Rosemary. Shut up, you're in Dubrovnik. I don't hear you.

SPEAKER_01 46:52

Oh, that was so good.

SPEAKER_02 46:54

When she just dismisses him altogether, it was great. That was a little bit of that that humor that made me laugh as we got to the conclusion of the film. That moment didn't detract for me, but I really would have loved not seeing Rosemary uh harm herself or the baby, but I would have loved seeing Rosemary try to escape. Like even if it ended with the baby in her arms and her trying to flee, even if it the uh it didn't look like the odds were high, but to end it right where it did, it just didn't sit right with me. It didn't feel like enough justice for her character.

SPEAKER_04 47:31

Is there a rosemary's baby too? Maybe she tries it in a couple years.

SPEAKER_02 47:34

Again, we did talk about that in XX. We had the the spiritual sequel. We had the idea of what does life look like for Rosemary and her baby post this movie.

SPEAKER_01 47:47

There was also a sequel in 1976. Look what's happened to Rosemary's Baby.

SPEAKER_04 47:53

It's like Look Who's Talking To. Right. Sounds like a terrible movie based on the title.

SPEAKER_01 47:57

Yeah, so it it was like a massive bomb and should never have been made.

SPEAKER_04 48:00

They could have just done a two, like five years later, she's like been hanging around taking care of the baby just to you know make everybody think she's cool, and then they just dip out, you know, run to the Amalfi coast. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 48:12

What's interesting is the two different two different strategies here. So Rosemary's Barry, we get this really like close to the book, we follow it, we put it on screen, successful. Um, there was a sequel to the book called Son of Rosemary, but instead of doing that as a movie, they decided let's just like catch up with the characters from the movie in some really weird, kind of clownish way. So they should have stuck with a game plan and just said, All right, you wrote the book, it was great, the first movie was great, let's just do that again. Major failure on their part.

SPEAKER_02 48:44

I don't know that I want to see necessarily even more of Rosemary's baby. It's something where I'm okay with where it stands. I wasn't mad at, you know, what we got in terms of the story for XX. But I think for sure, if anything were to ever get redone or retreated, they'd have to correct what I felt was the worst part of the movie, which was just where it left things in the ending, which I know is sacrilegious. People fucking love the ending in this movie. Mackie said you've watched it however many times on YouTube. But as I consider all the things that have so much prominence and impact in this movie, that is least among them.

SPEAKER_04 49:22

Agreed. I can't imagine why anyone would watch the ending of this movie on YouTube hundreds of times.

SPEAKER_01 49:28

I'm just telling you, it comes up in like compilations. And so you end up watching it a bunch of times.

SPEAKER_04 49:33

I believe you. I just don't understand. As much as I wasn't like a super big fan of the ending, it's not the worst part for me. I'm gonna use the worst part as an opportunity to make a request for something. Not that I can have it, but I really wish we had known like a little bit more about the kills that we don't see on screen, but that are talked about. So the old woman from the apartment before, like I really want to know what happened. I want to know why she moved that thing in front of the door. I want to know why she, you know, what their relationship was, what happened. I'm really curious about Terry and what happened with her and the window, and were there other people there? Was it a setup? I want to know like how exactly stuff happened with like Hutch. Like, they just kind of like very casually say, Oh, they took one of its uh clothing items. Like, okay, I don't, I'm not a witch. I don't know what that means. Like, I could put two and two together, but I just wish we knew a little bit more because those things seemed so interesting. And we are experiencing Rosemary's life for so long, what feels like almost every single day of her pregnancy for a minute. And I think at some point we could have had like a little bit of, I don't know, maybe like a side by side, like where she doesn't know what's happening, but we get like a a side storyline of showing us those things. I don't know. Maybe like we guy is experiencing it and finding out about it or something. I just want to know so much more about that because those were the interesting little things, and we didn't we didn't get it. We just got like weird, creepy, random flashbacks while she was dreaming and or not dreaming. That was what I missed. I really wanted more of the interesting, weird, witchy stuff besides just chanting Hail Satan at the end, which was the most on the nose thing of all time.

SPEAKER_02 51:16

I do wonder how much of the that would be satisfied by reading the original novel.

SPEAKER_04 51:21

Well, I didn't watch the movie to read the novel, okay? I'm sure it's in there. I bet it is, but that's not the point of the movie, and that's not what I'm reviewing. But you are curious. I am curious, but but I'm reviewing the movie, not the existence of a story that is Rosemary's baby, okay?

SPEAKER_01 51:39

Well, I'll tell you one existence I was not happy with, and that was Minnie Castavet. That was the worst part of the movie for me. The Castavets, oh man, what a tough couple to have to live near. They would be the worst neighbors. And it all makes sense why they were being the worst neighbors, but at least Roman Castavet tried to be a little bit charming with them. Minnie, though, was just grating. It was just nails on a chalkboard the entire time. And not just, I'm not just talking about voice, I'm talking about like behavior, the way that you she would just like forcibly enter your apartment and like involve herself in everything that you're doing, but like at least be a little bit charming, at least make me like you and want you to be around and not just constantly irritate me.

SPEAKER_04 52:17

I totally agree. I think there were probably two whole sentences that she says in this movie that I didn't hate. And sh and when I was earlier mentioning kind of like a caricature, she's like a bit of a caricature of a person because people are not like this. No one meets people like this and then ever talks to them again.

SPEAKER_02 52:33

For sure, she was absolutely grating, Mac. I think one of the things that I love as a consequence of how grating she was was Rosemary's insistence on having a party for people her own age. She said it's gonna be a very special party. You had to be under 60 to get in. I'm like, fuck yeah, Rosemary, there's that charm. It was so funny, yes. But I although I slashed it, I absolutely have to call out what I thought was the best part of this movie, and it was the solidarity that we get between Rosemary and her friends. And when a group of women were able to come together in a sea of patriarchal fucking nonsense when they kicked Guy out, even though he was insistent on being there with her, and they validated her concerns. And it was just this moment of clarity for Rosemary, and it was finally having sisters to really be there and say, This isn't normal. You're right, you should get a second opinion. Go back to Dr. Hill. Look at look for anybody who can help you with this. I absolutely loved that, and I wish Rosemary could have experienced more of that.

SPEAKER_01 53:36

If she had been allowed to, this never would have played out the same way.

SPEAKER_02 53:40

For sure. You can't be. It's just Mia Faro has done such an incredible job of endearing me to Rosemary that I wish Rosemary could have gotten better support. And I think that's the mark of a good film with good characters, with good performances all around.

SPEAKER_01 53:58

Absolutely. I honestly wish Paris could be on this episode just to get to that scene and give us his thoughts and like feel that moment where you're just like, Yes, tell her, yes, yes, like be there for her. Tell her all the stuff, tell her all this stuff is crazy. Because when you get there, you think, like, man, these these characters, they're us as a viewer.

SPEAKER_04 54:16

Okay, but also Paris would say something absurd about that scene. You know it.

SPEAKER_01 54:20

That's true. That's true.

SPEAKER_04 54:21

With all of these lovely things being said, I'm not particularly eager to watch this again, mostly because God bless two and a half hours almost of my time. It is hard for me to agree to give up more than two hours for a movie and a movie from the 60s nonetheless.

SPEAKER_01 54:38

I have seen it before, and we've seen it now, and I might see it again in the future, and I'm okay with that. I hope that I don't have to watch it as part of a remake. Like if I have to see this because a remake is coming out, the remake would just have to be so damn good. And I just don't know if anyone can really nail it.

SPEAKER_02 54:53

I can agree with that sentiment. This is one where I think I'm good for a while. What I would like to do is not have to watch this for a very long time, and I hope that when I do watch it again, things are much different. I hope there's less debate. I hope there's more progress, and I hope that this doesn't feel so sad when you see how much still happens. But for now, let's see what other enriching nuggets you have, Mac, in fact or fiction.

SPEAKER_01 55:20

Number one, Mia Farrow, like Rosemary, was a good Catholic girl growing up, but no longer identified as such after filming this movie.

SPEAKER_04 55:27

Hmm. I'm gonna go fiction. I feel like the movie had nothing to do with her her life decisions.

SPEAKER_01 55:33

That's correct. It is a fiction. She kept the faith into adulthood, even though she's had disagreements with the church along the way, but who hasn't?

SPEAKER_04 55:40

What's the church there for other than to disagree with, really?

SPEAKER_01 55:43

That's right. Number two. Rosemary told Terry Ginofrio, played by Angela Dorian, in the laundry room that she looked like the actress Victoria Vettri. This is in reference to the fact that Angela Dorian and Victoria Vetri had a long-standing beef over a shared ex-boyfriend.

SPEAKER_04 55:57

I'll just go fact here.

SPEAKER_01 55:58

Too bad. This one's a fiction. Angela Dorian is Victoria Vetri. She was born Victoria Vetri, but also went by Angela Dorian during her career.

SPEAKER_04 56:06

You know, I don't know people.

SPEAKER_01 56:08

I also just love that they like kind of broke a wall here and like used the person playing a character's name. They used her real name. Like that's wild.

SPEAKER_04 56:15

Yeah. It's weird. Also, I feel like it's weird that Roman is Roman.

SPEAKER_01 56:19

I don't think it's weird. I think it works in so many levels when we think about Roman Polansky.

SPEAKER_04 56:23

What a what a cool anagram, you know?

SPEAKER_01 56:26

Number three. Rosemary states she went to Vidal Sassoon for her, oh my god, super cute haircut. Vidal Sassoon in real life did cut Mia Farrow's hair for the movie.

SPEAKER_04 56:34

It does feel like her hair got cut. This feels like her, like she's meant to have this haircut. And I feel like Vidal Sassoon had its moment, so let's go for it.

SPEAKER_01 56:44

Yeah, this is a fact. He did indeed cut her hair for the movie. At number four, Yamaha's commercial in the movie was real product placement. They repaid Polanski by giving him and John Cassavetis free scooters. They race him around New York City with Mia Farrow riding in the back.

SPEAKER_04 56:57

You know, I have a personal beef with Yamaha that I could never explain to anyone, and probably has no basis in reality. So I'm gonna say fact because I feel like they do something like this.

SPEAKER_01 57:08

Yeah, it's a fact. Beef it up.

SPEAKER_04 57:09

One day I should explain my beef, but it'd be a long, convoluted story of nonsense.

SPEAKER_01 57:13

And that's been fact or fiction.

SPEAKER_02 57:15

Well, there you have it, folks. Rosemary's baby has earned a universal slash, and we've had a lot to talk about here, but the conversation doesn't end here by any means. We are just three on a show of typically five, and there are so many of you out there who have very passionate feelings about this movie, so where do you stand? Did you like it? Do you side with Ryan and I and disapproving of the ending? Have you seen it as many times on YouTube as Mac has? Let us know. You can join in on the conversation for free by hanging out with us in our Discord. You can click the link in our show notes to sign up.

SPEAKER_01 57:47

If you've enjoyed listening to this episode, consider becoming one of our patrons. Visit patreon.com slash hackerslash to enjoy more of the show with early access, extended episodes, bonus content, and live shows.

SPEAKER_02 57:58

We'll see you next time, folks. And remember, there are no witches. Not really. Adios.