219: The Black Phone (2022)

SPEAKER_02 0:04

Is this why kids had to climb ropes in gym class? Greetings and salutations and welcome to Hackerslash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. Wanna see a magic trick? If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack.

SPEAKER_00 0:24

A total joke, a waste of time. Or a slash. Totally killer, pun intended.

SPEAKER_02 0:29

We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, we're rating these movies with a perspective we've gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast, and this week I'm joined by the Superfly Space guy, Mac.

SPEAKER_00 0:43

Hello everyone.

SPEAKER_02 0:44

Now we've just gotten back from the theaters from checking out a newly released film in which a young boy fights for his life after an abduction, but he does so with a little help from his friends. This week we're talking about The Black Phone. What were you expecting going into this one, Mac?

SPEAKER_01 0:59

Well, I couldn't tell based on the trailer, like what I was gonna get into. I was thinking this could be like a seven-ish kind of film, but for like kids, or maybe like a family-friendly-ish, like stir of echoes vibe. I'm not sure. Our rating was a good sign, though, so I thought maybe we'll get some dark grungy stuff with Ethan Hawk's character's mask. I was getting major like purge and strangers vibes. So it was really kind of hard to tell what was in store.

SPEAKER_02 1:23

Purge and Stranger vibes are such a good way to describe this. And it's one of those where I feel like it's pretty straightforward from the trailers. Did you watch trailers before going into it?

SPEAKER_01 1:33

I I did. I remember seeing the trailers for probably the last month. I saw like the latest ones that they have out. But whenever they first hit, I saw it and I was like, huh.

SPEAKER_02 1:41

Yeah, I remember seeing the trailer the first time ahead of a movie that we watched for the podcast, and I never really cared to look more into it because I was already sold on the premise, right? I knew this was one that even just what you see within it, it's like, all right, my interest is peaked, I'm down, I don't want to know any more. But I did wonder how much more there could possibly be towards it. Not because they spoil so much, but because it's a pretty simple concept and there's a little bit of a twist, and then that twist gets provided. Now I think there are some things not in the trailer that get added, and I know it it caused some reactions in my theater a hundred percent. But I think this movie gave me the expectation of like the promise of pain, and then that promise gets fulfilled, right? It's one of those where I felt tense in a lot of moments, not surprised. You know what I mean? It was one of those, like I kind of predicted what was coming up along the way, but it still did this really great job of setting in uh a really sinister, creepy feeling where my skin was crawling a little bit, even if I knew what was gonna happen.

SPEAKER_01 2:45

This is what makes me hate that I saw the trailer because my interest was piqued seeing the trailer. I was down just on just on seeing it. Uh, but so much was shown that even going into the movie, even before the like it started rolling, I'd already pieced together the story in my head. So that's kind of detrimental for me because that's what I do anyway when I'm watching a movie, and that ruins a little bit. So I think I had to just like let go of that and just let the story happen. And we get so many, like you mentioned, these other things that help build the story. So who cares if I have the structure right? Um, there's these other characters, these other like devices that are in play that still kept it really interesting and and very tense along the way.

SPEAKER_02 3:24

Yeah, one of the things that made it most tense was just Ethan Hawke as a presence. And I've heard so much leading up to this about how he just delivers in this movie, and I was like, I mean, I don't hate Ethan Hawk, you know what I mean? Like, he's fine, but I'd never been super crazy about Ethan Hawk. I mean, I enjoyed The Purge. I may have shared some of my thoughts on him in the past, but he was in Sinister and I wasn't really crazy about that. That sounds sacrilegious on a horror movie podcast, but I didn't go into this thinking, oh my god, it's Ethan Hawk, it's gonna be amazing. Man, he was such a critical piece of discomfort in this movie. And I will say that with what we know happens in this movie, right? This is the story of a child being abducted and he's fighting for his life. Think about what's happening in current events and think about what has continued to happen and what has persisted for decades in our country. It's one of those where if you're feeling particularly raw about children, I'd think maybe hold off a little bit because there are moments when I for sure cried. Like I was tearing up in the theater. Not because this movie was, I think, trying to beat you over the head with being sad. Like it definitely has those, like, oh man, look at life extinguished moments. But because I had already had so much of that on my mind, I carried that into the the watch and I probably shouldn't have.

SPEAKER_01 4:46

I am curious, you know, after everything's out and this is in theaters for a while, and we get some interviews. I'm curious if they had to really cut stuff out to match the zeitgeist, because if they had gone darker, if they had shown some more than they did, I think it could have been really raw for some people. It seems well planned, the way everything's done. It seems like very deliberate, but I also I can see like where they could have squeezed more in if they had wanted to go that route. I was slightly disappointed with the fact that it wasn't nearly as dark as I had hoped. And that was an expectations thing, right? Because I see our rating and Ethan Hawke's performance. And I don't know if it's like as intense as it could be. It's not Joaquin Phoenix as the Joker, you know, it's not Heath Ledger as the Joker, it's not our boy Art the clown or anything like that, right? So it doesn't have to be completely insane, but it is an unnerving performance. It does make you sweat a little bit and not want to be around that human if they were real. But I I was surprised. I don't maybe disappointed isn't the right the right word for it. I was surprised that it didn't show us more, it didn't go like bloodier and grew us here, you know, even not with kids, because you know, sick twisted people can hurt adults and stuff like that too. But I was actually kind of shocked that that didn't go further.

SPEAKER_02 6:01

Yeah, this is one where you said it's it has an R-rating, and I didn't even think about that. This isn't a movie that felt like an R rating. It is violent, it is gruesome, there is some gore in this movie, don't get me wrong, but I guess so much of it is like you consider what the R-rated experience feels like in more adult films. You know, I'm thinking about X from 2022, right? Like, how was this movie and X rated the same fucking thing? I don't know. It didn't feel like that to me. Now, what was a surprise, not in terms of plot, but in terms of quality, was the performances of the child actors in this movie. There's like one or two moments where I was like, all right, I'm not buying this. Particularly, there are two different children that we see cry, and one of them was so raw and so painful and so emotional, and the other, I was like, all right, you're done. Like we can move, we can move beyond this moment. I get it. It makes sense that you're crying right now. I'm just not particularly sold on this moment in time in this performance. But aside from that, it was overall a really solid, compelling time watching these kids, and I felt so much for them, which I wasn't expecting to beyond what was obvious about the plot.

SPEAKER_01 7:14

Those kids did a great job. And that one scene with the crying that you talked about. If you haven't seen the movie yet and you're just listening to the first half here, you know, it's not it's not such a big deal that you're gonna want to look look away or anything, but it does feel legit. It feels like a real crying scene. It feels like you as a child seeing another child go through something and you wish you could stop it, but you can't. Like it was so good. And they did they did a good job at some stuff. I mean, the nature of this movie is a bit is a bit weird, it's a bit spooky, and I like that. As I said earlier, it doesn't go as dark as I thought it would, right? But it doesn't need to, it still works out. It's not scary to me because of that. I think though that this will trigger you if you have any concern for child welfare. And you might not be scared of the antagonist in this film, like personally, but this kind of stuff is out there, and when you watch this, like you're definitely gonna be looking around while you drive home and you're gonna be like checking out the cars and seeing where they're going. Are they following me? I don't know. Does it seem like I'm following them? Like, is everybody just scared of everybody?

SPEAKER_02 8:10

Yeah, that's really your point. I think to be fair, this is also gonna be very triggering if you have any history with abuse. And that's something that I think you should mentally prepare yourself with, even if I think you you're adequately uh coping with it, if it's something that you think you you move past, I would just mentally prepare yourself because even aside from the obvious premise of this film, there's a layer of that that I did not know was coming, and I don't have a personal connection to that, but it was very emotional to watch that moment unfold on screen. But you brought up this interesting point of it's gonna last with you and make you think like, am I- is someone following me? Am I being followed? I was even driving my car on the way back, and I was pulling in, you know, slowing down to pull into my yard, and there was a woman walking on the sidewalk, and I have like this black SUV, and I'm like, oh wow. I really hope she doesn't think that I just am just chilling here, waiting for her to let her guard down so I can snatch her, right? It just felt so bad. And I was like, I feel like I just need to like wait for a little while and just let her get far out of way before I even open my door and scare somebody off.

SPEAKER_01 9:15

Yeah, and oddly enough, as I left the theater, I was walking out, and the mother and two daughters that sat next to me um walked out before me and headed the exact same way to their car that I did. They were literally like two cars down for me. I'm like, man, after watching that movie, I'm not gonna make eye contact. I'm just gonna get my car and drive away first so that they know that I'm not a creep that's following them. But I think that would like definitely make some people feel some ways, like especially if you have kids or if you have like little brothers or sisters hanging around. Like you might not be, you know, scared for yourself, but I I think anytime we watch this kind of subject matter, it's gonna make you just really like extra concerned. You're gonna lock those locks even tighter.

SPEAKER_02 9:56

Absolutely. And and you know, we said it earlier, this movie is really, really tense. I think there isn't much in there that's super scary aside from a few moments where they frame shots in a particular way that's like obviously you're expecting something to be lurking in the background. But what it does is get you to invest emotionally in these characters where you are frightened on their behalf, not necessarily scared of the movie, which I think it makes it really effective. And I think this is one of those that I have not really experienced a movie quite like this. I've seen a lot of sad movies, seen some kid horror movies, but looking at even the concept of this and looking at how survivors and even those who didn't make it, how are they thought of, how are they memorialized, how are they avenged, so to speak, and are they ever? And looking at when tragedies like this happen, how does that impact a community? How does that impact each individual family? And you kind of get to see these interesting moments of it's getting closer and closer and closer to home, but people never really feel like it's home until it's actually happening in your home, right? And I think we see some interesting character changes through that. And I feel like this is a really unique experience to watch.

SPEAKER_01 11:08

While watching this, though, I in my mind I'm thinking like all of the pieces that go into a story. I'm thinking of some elements, and I have a link for you there, but storytelling devices. And at the very end, like there's a couple that you know they that they don't use because it's a it's a movie and it's not a TV show. If it's a TV show, they would be like, you know, we've got a checklist, go off on the formula, make sure we got a cliffhanger, right? Episode one, keep them, keep them coming. But if you think about it like Chekhov's gun, a hundred percent, like a major use of Chekhov's gun. Uh Death Trap, absolutely. Um Deus Ex Machina, a thousand percent. That's even revealed in the trailers. And the movie's unique Deus Ex Machina, uh, we've seen things like it, but it really saves the movie. It makes it seem more like a fresh take on ideas that we've seen in other places. I mean, yes, it's got flashbacks, yes, it has foreshadowing, it's got a race against time, it's got a lot going on. I think one thing, thankfully, that we did not get was any kind of red herring. And that's not really a spoiler. The trailer shows you what's up, you know who's who going into this, which is nice, but they have all the elements there, and they could have been checking it off as they wrote it, um, but it is done so kind of skillfully. It just comes across as like a well-built story. And so, yes, we've seen people getting abducted, we've seen scary people with masks on, we've seen being locked in the basement or being locked in a room or being locked in some kind of prison cell thing. Sure, we've seen all of that, but not exactly like this. And they did it in a in a good way to where I think, you know, watching this thing, like you're not bored at all. Because sure, you've seen things like this, you've seen seven, right? And so you know what creepy dudes who can like pick people up. You know what they you know what they look like, we've seen how they play out, we've seen it, so we know like threats to children look like. But there's something about this film where they're able to put things together, make it seem unique, even make their antagonists seem pretty unique. And when you look at it on like like a granule level, sure, it's not that unique. It's not that original, but it's put together in in such a way that I think it makes a really compelling story.

SPEAKER_02 13:13

Yeah, this movie is the sum of its parts, and the parts are quality, and and I think it's one of those movies you go as you go through that checklist of like storytelling elements. This is a movie that is put together, I think, pretty well. And I think back to being in school and like studying film, and there are so many movies that they have you break down and generally from the 90s and earlier, but this is a movie that I think does that in such an effective way that's easy to understand that it'd be a good textbook example for people to learn from. You know what I mean? So I don't I don't think of like you know the checklist items being a fault of the movie. I see it as being an actual strength because it's simple and it's effective, much like I think its ending is. It certainly leads you up to a moment and it lets you linger in that moment for a little while, and there are feelings that get felt. I won't obviously give more than that, but I found the ending to be satisfying.

SPEAKER_01 14:10

I think there's some parallels, like really small parallels, but there's some parallels to when you're watching Silence of the Lambs, when you're watching this ending, and you're like headed towards this conclusion and you're not exactly sure how it's gonna play out. You think you know how it's gonna play out, but they try to at least make you work for it to get to the ending. So it ended up feeling very satisfying to me. That yes, I could see this going one of two ways, and I'm pretty sure based on the rest of the movie, I know which way it's gonna go, but whatever. They're gonna make you sweat it out, they're gonna make you enjoy it and make you like get through the minutes to get to the ending. And it's it's a good, it's a good way to wrap up. I don't want to spoil from there like what actually happens in the ending, of course, but I think that the the way they conclude it was really satisfying.

SPEAKER_02 14:51

I mean, it sounds like you and I are on a similar page of this movie being pretty effective, but we'll see how that translates into its actual rating because even if it is effective, it doesn't necessarily mean it's particular to one of our tastes. So let's go ahead and start making our way there, Mac. Now, before we dive into those ratings, how many people died in this film?

SPEAKER_01 15:10

Okay, we're gonna count on-screen deaths here. That gives us a whopping two. What about the animal report? It got kind of questionable for a minute because there was a couple places where this could have gone badly, but thankfully it ended up all good in the hood.

SPEAKER_02 15:24

Let's go ahead and get into the actual scoring here. The black phone from 2022, now showing in theaters. Was it a hacker or a slash?

SPEAKER_01 15:32

So we haven't had much time to think about it, obviously. We just got of the movie, so we're going with gut reactions here. And walking out of the film, I already knew that this was a slash. This has a solid story, it's got good enough acting, it's got honestly, it's got the right amount of gore for this movie. And you and I are kind of similar in that we don't need a ton of gore for a movie to be great, but it's got the right amount, I think, for this film. Um, I I enjoyed it, you know. I like thrillers, I like tension, I don't need people being sawed in half from top to bottom, no hot dog cuts necessary to please this guy. I just need something character-driven, and I think this movie is very character-driven. You mentioned earlier that you really got to feel what's going on in the community and with the families. I mean, they highlighted that, I think, very deliberately, and we got to have a feeling of what it would be like to see everyone else's kid on the milk carton except for yours, and then suddenly yours is on the milk carton. But we got to see it from the kids' point of view, which was very different from what we normally get. I just enjoyed it. I think it was a good watch. I think this is one of those that you can watch alone as an adult in your 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, but you can sit there and watch this probably with a 13-year-old and feel pretty good about what they're gonna see on screen. So, yeah, all in all, slash.

SPEAKER_02 16:43

You know what is fun for me, Mac? This movie is fun for all ages, which is wild to think. This R-rated horror movie with someone as spooky as Ethan Hawke's performance in this movie is one that I would absolutely watch with my niece and nephews. It's one that I think also lends itself well to being a transitionary piece into horror. This feels very psychological thriller, even though it's not. This feels very outskirts of horror, even though it has some really strong, clear, present elements. And I think it's the simplicity of this story that really creates this opportunity to bring people into the genre. And I think, you know, looking into the theater that I was in, you had some of these reactions like, oh, you fucking idiot. Like there were people who just didn't seem to really care for horror movies very much, and it felt like this movie was making new fans, and this is absolutely a slash. It's effective, it's simple, and at the end of the day, it has stellar performances by child actors, which is a very easy place to go very, very wrong. But this movie didn't. And with that, the black phone from 2022, now showing in theaters, is a universal slash. Now it's just the two of us. We'll see where our friends end up on the scoring when they eventually see it. But for now, go check it out in theaters, then join us in the second half so we can break down the spoilers together. See you in a bit.

SPEAKER_01 18:11

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SPEAKER_02 19:04

Welcome back, folks. You are now entering the spoiler zone for the black phone, which has earned a universal slash. Now we have a lot to get to here, but before we get into the specifics on why Mac and I love this movie, we have the matter of gore to get to. Mac, what's the gore score for this film?

SPEAKER_01 19:18

I would call this low, but I would call it appropriately low. I think it makes sense for the subject matter when we're dealing with kids, violence towards kids. I don't want gore. And I think the gore that we do get is generally towards the adults in the film, which I also think was appropriate.

SPEAKER_02 19:34

Absolutely agreed there. I'm someone who can really thrive in a low gore environment, but I will say there are these jarring and shocking moments, right? Like the first time we see some of the ghosts in the room, and you see what happened to these kids. That felt bad to me. Not in a negative way, not in a wow, I wish they hadn't done this way. Wow, how dare you go so far kind of way, but in a damn, y'all know how to hit me in my heart kind of way.

SPEAKER_01 20:01

And we do get a shot of one of the ghosts who's like like suspended and and is basically a bloodied corpse at that point. And that was pretty much like the most I think we get in terms of like gore on the kids or towards the kids, which was still okay in the amount that we get. Um, but I think there's just the implication of damage. There's the implication, because we know these kids are dead, they're ghosts, and he took his time. They tell us he took his time killing some of them. So I think that like the implication was enough to to really show like what they had to go through. And I think looking around the room like that was enough. I think we still get a little gore towards the grabber, which was good. We get the gore on the arm when he gets sliced with the little flashlight thing, like that was a good little little gash in the arm. Um, I think the we get the really bad CGI axe through the head, so that was pretty gory. I was concerned about the idea of potentially gore towards you know the dog. I didn't want any violence to happen to that dog, no matter how scary he is. Thankfully, we avoided that, and he just got some meat like a good boy.

SPEAKER_02 21:03

Yeah, I was so scared about him and the golden retriever that we have earlier in the film, who belongs to the paper boy. I was so scared, and that little dog was so happy sitting there and by that bike, being a good old boy, thinking he's gonna get his gonna get his best friend back someday. He never came back.

SPEAKER_01 21:19

No.

SPEAKER_02 21:20

My heart is broken for that fucking dog, Mac.

SPEAKER_01 21:23

Hopefully he's got other friends at home to kind of make up for it. He's gonna be depressed for quite a long time though. Yeah, I mean, the implication that the dogs were gonna be hurt was was so much. But then when you realize, okay, thank goodness. But going back to gore, I think the final bit of gore that we get is towards the grabber. So we get not even blood though. We just get violence. We just get, you know, taking him out, but there's not there's a broken ankle, and that and that was appropriate again. Once again, it was it was an appropriate amount of violence towards an adult. But there wasn't really a lot of blood splatter. There wasn't, you know, there's no heads exploding or coming off or anything like that. So I think. You know, I generally agree that the lower the gourd, the better. Um, we do get some, and I think it was effective because it was just some.

SPEAKER_02 22:08

Yeah, you mentioned the poorly CGI'd axe through the head. And first off, let me tell you how sad I was to see my boy from It go that way. I was so happy to see him on screen. I thought he brought such like an energy and light and this great source of comedy to the film. But when he gets that axe through the head, and you know it's coming because it's like there's no way he's gonna help fucking rescue that. We have too long left in this movie for it to go down this path. When he got that axe through the head, I was reminded of Fear Street when we have those kills in the grocery store.

SPEAKER_01 22:40

Yep, yeah. The bread slicer. Great moment.

SPEAKER_02 22:43

He was my favorite kill. As much as that makes me sad. I think the satisfaction from The Grabber is amazing. The arm is meant, right? But I think seeing Max go that way in such like a classic horror movie kind of kind of roundabout way felt really good to me.

SPEAKER_01 22:59

It's tough because they set you up a little bit, they give you a little bit of foreshadowing potentially when they interview him and he he talks about like, you know, I'm just like here, and my brother lives here, but I'm like, I'm just here for you know for this or whatever. And my mind, of course, went through like maybe the dude's his brother. But then the shots where we just see him like sitting in a chair and we don't know that they're brothers yet. I'm like, oh, okay, they're just they're trying to give us a red herring. So I was wrong earlier. They gave us a red herring, just not the way we would think.

SPEAKER_02 23:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:26

Look at that textbook, it's perfect.

SPEAKER_02 23:28

Yeah, and there's a moment where obviously he's first being interviewed, he norns this line of cocaine, and we have the camera transition downstairs into the basement. And I found that to be so obvious that I was like, is this a literal transition or a literary transition? You know what I mean? It it was like trying to discern between those two things and keeping you open to either possibility. But looking back on it, I don't know how I feel about that reveal happening that early.

SPEAKER_01 23:57

Yeah, and and I think maybe it's on purpose. Let's give them more credit, maybe. You know, maybe they don't deserve the credit, but I think we all have the same thought. When it moved when that camera pans and it goes down and it shows the kid, I was like, well, that doesn't make sense. He can't be right beneath them, or otherwise, like he would know, right? So obviously they're just trying to draw our attention away and make it seem like something something, even though it's not there. Maybe it's just my brain doing this. But no, in the end, they literally just told us, they just showed us right up front, like, yeah, this is reality happening. I I didn't love that kill. It wasn't my favorite of the two kills that we do get. Um, mine was the grabbers. And anytime that you can, you know, take a child and lock them up like this, you can't just you can't just get caught by the police. So the fact that we break his ankle, fantastic. Uh that was so satisfying. And he falls into the pit, hits the grate, everything's coming together. All those Chekhov's guns all along the way, adding up to the end.

SPEAKER_02 24:51

Oh, you mean all the Macaulay Culkins home alone. He home alone his ass.

SPEAKER_01 24:57

He kind of did with the with the help of some friends. He got by with a little help from his friends, and they set up the perfect sequence of events, even though the kid didn't realize it at first. It just worked out beautifully. But I think there was still that potential that he could overpower him at that point. I mean, we don't know which way this movie's gonna end up. Like maybe he'll just be another ghost trying to save the next kid. Maybe the next kid will be his sister. But when he falls in that pit, breaks his ankle, and it's like, oh, it's game over. There's no way he's getting up from this. And everything just falls into place. I mean, we know the freezer's back there, we know it's got meat in it, we know the dog is tied up on the other side of the wall. So this this is game over for this dude, and he is not getting up for this. And that's what made it satisfying is that it all just fell into place so perfectly.

SPEAKER_02 25:39

I would agree with that. I think the the dominoes falling created like this really great momentum of just like, fuck yeah, Finn, let's go. But one thing that I was expecting him to do, and I was surprised he didn't, was grab the fucking porcelain from the toilet, like the the back of it, and just knock him the fuck out! What are you doing, Finn? I feel like that would have been a better weapon. You've already dug so hard into that wall that it was then a jagged piece at the end. He could have really just like severed an artery with that.

SPEAKER_01 26:07

I was really surprised he didn't do that because he's there and he's exposed, and we already know that he knows how to take the porcelain top of it off. Why on earth was that not his weapon? It probably would have been over way too fast, I think. Maybe that's why they didn't go that route, but like he had to punch him a little bit. He had to like work up the nerve to like punch another human being, maybe.

SPEAKER_02 26:24

Yeah, and the poetic justice would not have been sweet if that man wasn't killed with his own fucking phone.

SPEAKER_01 26:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:30

This movie obviously is packed with a lot of things, right? It is packed with so much emotion, it's packed with misdirection, but it's also laced with really great cinematography, and there are so many standout moments for me. But one of the things I thought was interesting, and I'm still a little on the fence about it, we see all these home videos, and then you realize they're not home videos. They're Gwen's dreams, and she's seeing life through like the style of home video, and that could have just been a style choice, it could have just been a moment where they want to apply a certain feel because of the age of the movie setting. But when we realize that it's a dream and not just pulling your heartstrings emotionally to think about these kids, I was like, okay, all right, I'm not mad at it.

SPEAKER_01 27:16

I respect that. I think there was a lot to look at here, and I couldn't get away from the lighting because the lighting was so it was so different. Like those shots were cool, like they definitely gave me ghostly, dreamy apparition kind of feelings, like she's in another world, she's receiving, you know, from another plane or something like that. And I think it was really effective. I think the choice to make it seem like home videos was was pretty smart. That was kind of a cool little touch there. The entire look of the film, though, did not feel like a 2022 film. And that was so perfect. But the lighting, though, the lighting was so hardcore because it reminded me of Atlanta. I don't know if you've seen like clips from the TV show Atlanta, but they do these really cool things with lighting where they'll just use the natural lighting of a room or from the, you know, literally like the lights coming in from the outside into a house or something, where they'll just kind of roll with having one light source and seeing how that looks on different subjects. And I loved that in in scenes I've seen. So watching this, they did it in a way that like it seemed like low light, but it made it seem to me more like we're trying to capture natural light. So not quite documentary style, but definitely like we're trying to capture the feeling of like this visceral world we're in where like everything could potentially hurt.

SPEAKER_02 28:29

Yeah, it's because nothing feels artificial and it doesn't feel like a set. It doesn't feel like you're in a production. It feels like you're trapped in this basement with this kid, which was so fucking great. But one of the things I even love, in addition to that, right, and is how the light plays with his masks, his many masks. He has the bottom pieces, the top pieces. I I love the fact that there's a point where he's testing Finn and he's asking him what his name is, and he's like playing this game of I'll let you go. And he emerges from the shadow after he knows that Finn has lied to him and he has his disappointed mask on. And there's something so sinister about this mask and its many faces, and I I say that not as a pun with Ethan Hawk and his previous films, but the lighting accentuated that so perfectly. And I don't think you could have lit this movie any differently and made that mask as scary.

SPEAKER_01 29:22

Yeah, they did some just like really amazing stuff with that. I mean, even when he's sitting in the chair with his masks, or he's got the top piece during the end scene where it's finally gonna reveal his his actual mouth again. We got to see his full face earlier on, but I think the use of those masks was really cool. I think the shadow was brilliant. In the actual room where we're seeing the ghosts and stuff, it was just kind of like very dark, and they would get like some subtle lighting on the ghosts, and it was effective. I don't think it was anything like super de duper cool, but I I think it was like everything's at a baseline of good, and then we have some scenes that are like, oh wow, that's like really smart to do it that way. I think my favorite scene though wasn't even in the house. My favorite scene was the fight with the sister hitting the kid with the rock upside the head when she runs in there cursing at them. Wow.

SPEAKER_02 30:09

Oh my gosh. So look, Gwen had some standout moments for sure. First, cursing out the cops in the office. Second, when the rock is grabbed, I don't know about you, Mac, but I had this assumption, and a lot of other people in my theater had the assumption that it was one of the guys about to just like destroy Finn with a rock. And obviously he hasn't been kidnapped yet, right? So it's not possible for that to be the case when we see what he's like in the trailers. But when it was her, I got Princess Leia energy. And maybe that's just me watching so much of a particular Star Wars show right now. Maybe that's just me dreaming of Carriefisher all the time. But I got big Carriefisher energy from her, and I was so fucking proud of it.

SPEAKER_01 30:51

The best part I think about that is that she we've seen her be vulnerable. We've seen what happens when her dad is beating her, and she like has no way of getting out of that. But when we get those scenes though where she like lights up and doesn't take anyone's crap, it's it's fantastic. And the scene where she's talking to the police is great, first of all. Her use of curse words is the best in this entire film. I I'm actually curious if this movie is R because of her cursing, because there's so much of it and it's so well done. But um, I I'm curious which scene really stuck with you because there were so many.

SPEAKER_02 31:26

Oh my gosh. So obviously that one was a standout because of the duality of her character, which we'll get to in a bit. My favorite scene though was the moment of tension that we have when Finn for the first time is messing with the bike lock on the storm door. And there's particularly a shot that I loved so much, and it wasn't just the tension of going back and forth between the two of them and like the actual cuts between them. It is a shot that made this moment, and it was the rack focus. When we see Finn messing with the lock, and then it shifts the focus without changing the composition or anything like that. We just focus in on the grabber in the background and then shift focus right back. That is such a beautiful moment. And it's one where we have the tension of cutting, but the cutting is a problem because things happen in threes. And when you start to do those cuts, you start to mess up pacing. And I know I I keep bringing up Sinister and Ethan Hawk. That movie is famously listed as one of the scariest movies of all time because of like people's heart rates and how they respond to it, but it's because that movie disrupts patterns, because it elongates certain moments and then fucking hits you with something violent that you aren't expecting, and it disrupts the rhythm with which you normally experience movies. And that rack focus, while it didn't completely achieve that in my mind, it lent itself to that opportunity. And it's like, oh my god, is this gonna be a Michael Myers sits up with his amazing abs while Lori Strode is in the foreground and we just see him slowly getting up, slightly out of focus in the back. It gave me that energy and that hope is really what sold me on the tension in this movie.

SPEAKER_01 33:07

They did it in such a perfect way, though, because what we all expect to happen is that he's messing with it, he's trying to get the right combination, we get that amazing like depth of field effect going on there, we get that rack focus, right? Um, and then what would normally happen is we see him wake up and then he would appear and then stop him. But that's not what we get. The kid gets out, and no, I don't know that anyone was super expecting that to happen. Because at this point, it's like, well, we know the movie's not over, so like how does he get him back? And it was brilliant, I think, too. Anytime that you can mess up our expectations in a good way, like bravo, that's skill. Because it seems like a shot we've seen in other places where somebody's gonna escape and we're watching, we're seeing in the background what's gonna happen, and they did it in a beautiful way, and then oh, nope, they caught him. But no, just like really, really smart to go the other way and like let the kid get out, have the dog barking and all that kind of stuff. It was it was honestly really perfect. And then when the kid finally gets out and he's chasing him, I think everyone at that point is just like, you know, run to the side, what are you doing? Run to that house, like do and no, it's not there's not enough time. It was so fast.

SPEAKER_02 34:11

Yeah, he really had his Scream Queen moment there. He had his moments that we've seen in so many even Halloween films where Lori is banging on doors asking for help and no one's helping her, or we have Alison doing that in the 2018 Halloween, but she does get that help. That porch light does come on and someone is there. And capturing that moment here with Finn looking for this help, and he's so close, and two houses are aware that something weird is going on. Man, it just gives you this closeness to some kind of resolution. And I didn't expect him to get out of the house, period. So at the point when he finally gets out, I'm thinking, oh, I don't remember exactly how long this movie is. Maybe he does get out and there's just like a battle in the streets at this point. I think that moment in that defeat, that being so close and yet so far away, really did wonders for developing and endearing me to Finn. Because for me, the star of the movie was Gwen, even though she was a supporting character. But that moment for Finn to have gotten so close and then to fail and get set back, I think he did wonders for his character.

SPEAKER_01 35:19

He's so he's so interesting as a child or preteen or teen or wherever the heck he is in this movie, because he obviously is scared. He obviously is worried that something's gonna happen to him, but he goes through these moments where he's like in full acceptance of it. He's like like freaking out, like, I'm not gonna get out of here, I'm not gonna get out, and then he's like, All right, I'm not gonna get out of here. Like, this is this is it for me. This is just where I where he's like coming to terms with his situation, like real quick, in multiple occasions, he just like accepts it, like it's game over, there's nothing I can do. And you could say, obviously, that's a good thing, you could also say it's a bad thing, but I think it's interesting that he goes through it in waves because even when he gets this additional ghost help, he reaches that point once again where he's like, I've just tried everything, like there's nothing that they can do for me, and there's nothing that I can do, and then and this is just how I'm gonna go out, and he's like totally okay with it. What?

SPEAKER_02 36:05

Well, I think that's because of the differences between him and his sister. You see that his sister takes this pain, and he takes this pain as well, and he tries to stand up for her, but you see that his sister clearly has more fight in her than he does. Not that he's weak, not that he's incapable of having that fight, but because he's a more passive person. Maybe he doesn't want to be the person who's just throwing down fists with everybody, maybe he just doesn't want to fight. And it reminds me almost of Luke and Leia, where you have Luke who's a little bit more of the fire the pacifist, and Leia who's more of the fiery in your face, calling it like it is kind of person, right? But I think about the differences there and the dynamics between siblings, and that's what makes it so interesting. And Finn, I know I I said a moment, right? Like it did wonders to endear me to him. I didn't dislike him. The only moment that I had where I struggled with him was when he was crying after not being able to open the freezer. And not because he was crying. No, it's a reasonable thing. I just wasn't sold on his performance in that very present moment. You make such a great point about his waves of defeat and thinking about how he perceives his success and is he gonna get out of here or not. And I as you're saying that, it just made me think of when I was in the Navy and I was failing my swim test every day for six weeks, and then I failed it. Like I there's a point where you had to like float prone for five solid mil minutes without like dipping, and I got to like four minutes and fifty-something seconds, and then some guy kicked my head and I started like choking as as I was like coming up for air, and I just failed out right there. And I remember going back to my apartment crying, and I felt so defeated, and I felt like, oh my god, I'm gonna get set back. Oh my god, this is what failure feels like. And I think for this movie to elicit such a response, to show such a response in a character, I think it helps you connect to these very real moments that you've had in your life, even though this is a child in an extreme circumstance that you probably have not gone through. I think that's a really interesting concept.

SPEAKER_01 38:13

For sure. And they they set them up for this, I think, from the beginning with their father, with the way that he treats them and the two different responses that they have to him. Because, like you mentioned, Finn just kind of lets it happen. He knows what the punishment's gonna be, he accepts it and he kind of just like gets through it. But Gwen doesn't, like, even when she takes the beating, is is still like gonna fight back in any way that she can as soon as she has a moment to do so. Where yeah, it hurts and she's in pain and she's so scared, but then she's like, But F you at the same time, dude.

SPEAKER_02 38:43

But I will drop your fucking bottle. Right. Oh my god, that moment I did not like actually stand up and clap, but in my heart, I was standing up on my broken chair clapping for her.

SPEAKER_01 38:53

Oh yeah, because their father's obviously gone through it since they lost their mother, and he is now operating as a piece of crap towards them, and they have to take care of him because he's sick with alcoholism. But when he's taking it out on them, and I get that he was freaked out that something his daughter said led the police to him as a potential suspect, but at the same time, he knows that he didn't do it. So, like, don't beat your daughter, dude. Like, just be like, what on earth did you say? Um, neither here nor there. But I think the fact that he like took that on her like that, he's just everything is everything has to come out from him and go towards his kids because he's in control of them, he's he's in a position of power, and he they're the only ones that he can affect in any meaningful way. And yeah, Finn is just kind of like, get through it, get by, survive, just do whatever I have to do, but I can't avoid it. And and Gwen is just like, ow, that hurts if you're vodka. I truly don't care about your vodka and your drinking, and I'll do it again if you ask me to.

SPEAKER_02 39:53

Yeah, and you you bring up such a good point about the father, and I remember having this moment where you have this realization that he is hasn't maybe always been a monster, but that family has been disrupted and has been broken by the loss of their mother, and apparently she took her own life, which is horrifying. And a hundred percent he has succumbed to alcoholism, he is abusing his children, and again, this is at a point in time, right, where people think, was he abusing or was he just disciplining? And like you have this whole situation where I don't know, my parents didn't spank me or hit me with a belt, but uh the wrath of their disappointment felt more dis like felt scarier just knowing that they were displeased. But to see how dark of a place he was in, and then to see him at the end, to see this apologetic nature, to see this, oh my god, you know, I just don't want what happened to your mother to happen to you because her dreams weren't real. I appreciated the vulnerability that this movie showed there, not to justify or to excuse at all his actions, but to show the complexity of this community, to show the complexity of these circumstances and to hope that maybe things will be a little bit better from here on out. You know, his daughter has for some reason she has these dreams that lend themselves to truth and reality and and and hidden things that people don't often see, and it's helped to find her brother. So perhaps he can let go in some measure of the trauma of what's happened to him with his wife and learn to love and appreciate his children again for just being children as opposed to an outlet for his control.

SPEAKER_01 41:36

I think if this movie continued, if we had a part two or maybe like another half an hour, I think his attitude would probably change to pride in her abilities and the fact that she was able to save him because he really wasn't able to do anything, but Gwen saved Finn, effectively, is what they were showing. Honestly, Finn saved Finn. Um, but they she led them to all of this through her through her ESP, honestly. I mean, that what an interesting twist. Like we know that there's ghosts and whatnot happening with the phone, but I was not really expecting Gwen to have any sort of extra sensory powers in any way, and I wasn't sure how I felt about it at first, because I've seen it played out before where it's kind of like boring and and doesn't feel like it's necessary, but it meshed, I think. It really meshed well with what was going on in in Finn's world. I gotta talk about the worst part of the movie, and only because I have to, because there actually is not much in this film that I that I dislike. Honestly, the only thing that bothered me was the CGI'd kill because everything else going on, even the ghosts, I wasn't bothered by it all. I think visually the rest of the movie like really worked. When we get to that sloppy-looking axe through the head, it seemed it seemed rushed. It seemed like they could have put more work into it. It seemed also unnecessary. This is the kind of movie I think that could have done an off-screen kill for Max. I don't think we had to see it on screen. I think the kill itself worked. Like the fact that they took out Max had to happen. The fact that it happened with an axe, really perfect for the grabber to use an axe and take out his own brother right in the head. It really worked. But like the way they showed it, it just would have been better not to show it at all.

SPEAKER_02 43:09

I don't disagree with that, but I'm also not quite as bothered by the axe as you are. I think I just don't expect axe CGI to be stellar ever. So generally, when it's done, I'm like, yeah, that's cool. Like you'd have to have really shitty blood coming out of the head for me to be truly bothered by it. But then again, remember, I've seen my bloody Valentine in 3D. I've seen the horrible CGI mask from H2O. Like, I've been around the block with some bad CGI, and I think I have just built up a high tolerance for poor CGI. Yeah. For me, the worst part of this movie was Finn's crying. Again, that's not a toxic masculinity thing. Finn is welcome to cry. Finn's portrayal of crying just didn't hit it for me. But again, and that's like a nitpick thing because so much of this movie is so good. And I have to get Really down into the weeds to get down to something that I disliked. And it's really almost like an unfair assessment because it's the smallest tiny little thing that bothered me. But he was actually pretty great in his performance overall.

SPEAKER_01 44:12

It is nitpicky because we have to. I think if we didn't have to pick a worse part, we wouldn't have. We just there's honestly no reason. I think this movie reminds me of other movies in a really good way, like Stir of Echoes, Sixth Sense, Fallen. Um, it just like feels like a decent horror thriller and one that back in the day you would obviously own on DVD as soon as you saw it at Best Buy, like, yeah, that was worth it. We should get that. I think it has high rewatch value. I think it belongs to a collection of other like horror thrillers. And I think it's one that I probably would watch again if somebody was like, hey, can we go see that because they really want to see it in theater? I'd be like, yeah, let's go. I'll watch it a second time. Why not?

SPEAKER_02 44:51

Oh, I agree with you. This is one that I definitely plan to watch again, and it's one that I'm absolutely gonna recommend to people who are not really into the intense gore and horror of things, but really like a good psychological thriller. Because also Ethan Hawke's performance in this is probably the best I've ever seen him. There's a moment where he says, just to look at you, and it gave me the same chills as because you were home from the strangers. It hit me the same way, and I think there's something to be said about that. And there's also this idea of wanting to re-watch it because there's something that happens in this movie that made me think, is this why kids had to climb ropes and gym glass? You know what I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_01 45:32

I do.

SPEAKER_02 45:33

Finn can barely manage his way up with that cable onto that like metal grate to try to open the window. And I I I do wonder, is it because of the stranger danger sensation, right? Is is this why, like, yo, kids, climb up this rope. You're getting up here in case you get trapped in a basement.

SPEAKER_01 45:50

Yeah, it would have been so much quicker of a movie had he been able to climb up there because he could have like climbed up there, used the grate, smashed the glass, run away. Um, presumably, I don't know if the glass is like five inches thick or anything, but that is funny. I I will say Ethan Hawk, I'm I'm I don't describe myself as like a huge Ethan Hawk fan of for some reason, but I love a lot of Ethan Hawk movies. One of my favorite movies is Training Day. Like I used to own that on DVD, I probably still have it somewhere. I love Training Day, and he's great in it. Dead Poet Society, that's just like a classic modern film. Lord of War, great movie. Ethan Hawk is in it. Gattaca, one of my favorite sci-fi movies, he's in it. There's just a ton of like really good movies that he's a part of, and I think we all can enjoy The Purge. Whether or not we enjoy like the Purge series is a different thing. I for some reason do, but I think it's kind of cool that he was in the first one. There's just like a really good list of things that he's part of. And so I wasn't I wasn't thrown off when he was in this, but seeing him act like this, like you mentioned, it's not it's not the same performance that you get from any other Ethan Hawk movie whatsoever. It's really good.

SPEAKER_02 46:52

Mm-hmm. And I mean, look, the last Ethan Hawk movie I really, really enjoyed, aside from the purge, was Daybreakers.

SPEAKER_01 47:00

So yeah, that was a good movie though.

SPEAKER_02 47:02

I'm past due for a good Ethan Hawk experience. He delivered tenfold. But feelings about Ethan Hawk aside, folks, there you have it. The Blackphone from 2022, now playing in theaters, has earned a universal slash from at least Mac and I, unsurprisingly. Now we've certainly had a lot to talk about here, but the conversation doesn't end here by any means. We gotta hear from the rest of our team and we have to hear from you. We want to know what you think. Were you down for the child performances? Did you also think that Ethan Hawk delivered? Were you tense? Were you scared? Were you terrified on behalf of these children? Please let us know. You can join in on the conversation for free by hanging out with us in our Discord. You can click the link in our show notes to sign up.

SPEAKER_01 47:42

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SPEAKER_02 47:54

See you next time, folks, and remember, don't go upstairs.

SPEAKER_01 47:56

Nighty Night, naughty boy.