229: Cujo (1983)

SPEAKER_01 0:04

These people didn't poop for days.

SPEAKER_02 0:11

Greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hackerslash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. Nothing wrong here. If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack. A total joke, a waste of time, or a splash.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

Totally killer pun intended.

SPEAKER_02 0:30

We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, we rate these movies with a perspective we've gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast, and this week I'm joined by the Superfly Space Guy Mac.

SPEAKER_00 0:44

Hola, Muchachos, and the cowardly group, Ryan.

SPEAKER_02 0:47

Hiya. This week we're checking out another 80s adaptation of a Stephen King novel. Before we get down to business, though, we have some follow-up.

SPEAKER_00 0:55

Recently, we reviewed Behind the Mask: The Rise of Leslie Vernon. I was not on that episode. However, the rest of the team did give it one hack and two slashes.

SPEAKER_01 1:04

Which honestly, I was surprised to realize that I had given it a slash. Because you know me. Forgetful. Forgetful, Rye. You're a little bit of a mixed bag there, Rye. I feel like I remember thinking it was funny and cute. Don't remember thinking it was a great horror movie, but I did give it a slash.

SPEAKER_02 1:20

You specifically disliked the mask in the film, but you generally had very positive things to say. The mask was so bad. I looked it up and I was like, yep, I hated that. Remember hating that. Again, I'm not here for Leslie Vernon's slander.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

Well, our listeners didn't hate it. We asked them what they thought, and well, you told us 18% gave it a hack, and 82% gave it a slash.

SPEAKER_01 1:41

I feel like this is so up the alley of our listeners. It makes a lot of sense. I'm actually a little surprised that there's even that much for hack.

SPEAKER_00 1:49

Well, we've got some comments from our listeners. First up, a comment from our patron, Tony, on Discord. They should make a sequel, Behind the Masks, The Bride of Leslie Vernon.

SPEAKER_01 1:58

I'd be into that. Let's go.

SPEAKER_00 1:59

It does seem like a clever name.

SPEAKER_01 2:01

I I don't know that I'm into it. I feel like it's cute and great because it's its own thing.

SPEAKER_00 2:07

Well, over on Patreon, Darren comments, this is a total slash for me. It's very original, and I found it extremely funny. The final act was a little weaker than the rest of the film, but I was still entertained throughout. I love spotting the various Easter eggs and thought the performances were solid. I will re-watch this again soon as Chris pointed out a few references that I missed. Great episode, guys.

SPEAKER_02 2:25

Ooh, I love when we can just uncover a few Easter eggs. Why do you read that like an AI?

SPEAKER_00 2:30

Because I am an AI.

SPEAKER_02 2:32

That's his whole thing.

SPEAKER_00 2:33

And a few rapid fire comments from Instagram. First up, Cobain, Nathan Basil with a stand-up performance. And Jake, the lead protagonist, is the mean sister to Kevin in Home Alone. Lol.

SPEAKER_02 2:44

That blew my fucking mind. I had no idea.

SPEAKER_00 2:46

Rob, this movie is brilliant in how it switches from comedy to horror. And Tim, crucify me. I don't like meta or self-aware horror like Scream, Cabin in the Woods, or this.

SPEAKER_01 2:56

I would argue this is in a very different category than Scream and Cabinet in the Woods. Because I I'm almost at the point in life where I actually kind of agree with that comment, but this movie is not meta in that same way. So j just if you haven't seen it, it's different. Give it a chance.

SPEAKER_00 3:12

Now talking about meta. Let's talk more about ourselves. This October is going to be another huge celebration for our show. We have an exciting lineup of films, another rendition of the Cohost Clash, and even live streams and community activities planned in our Discord server. The spooky season isn't limited to October, though. And in fact, the spooky preseason starts right now.

SPEAKER_02 3:31

Yeah, so from September 1st to the 30th, we're actually running a challenge for our listeners, and we want you to help us pre-game for October by joining our free Discord server and mingling with the family. Now, the term Discord server may sound a little bit new to some of you, but don't worry, don't stress, it's okay. It's just a free application or website that you can visit to connect with us and fans of our show. Now, you already know that we believe horror is for everyone, right? Like we say that every episode at the top of it, we get it. But you may not know that the ultimate goal of the show is to foster an environment in which conversations about horror movies are used as catalysts to build enriching connections between people the same way that it's sort of to deepen the friendship among all of us. Now, we offer a safe, inclusive space for fans to be fans and connect over a shared love of horror movies. There are already so many dope relationships that have been built among our patrons in the Discord server. And to celebrate that throughout the month, each Discord member will gain points just for hanging out with us, for living life with us, for participating in our community, by talking about all things horror, connecting with each other, and participating in the live stream chats. On October 1st, though, we're gonna do something a little spicy. We're going to announce the community member with the most points at the end of the month, and that person is gonna receive a special package containing two pieces of our podcast merch. One of those items isn't even available to purchase on our website yet, and we're actually designing it specifically for our October spooky season theme.

SPEAKER_01 5:02

And we'll also have a little something special for our runner-ups. Not for nothing. I only have two pieces of personal podcast merch, so you'll be on par with me. And I would say uh most of us. Most of us have a couple.

SPEAKER_00 5:15

I am podcast merch. So to recap, join our Discord. Have fun with the Hackerslash family, get points, win cool stuff. You can learn more by following the link in our show notes or by going directly to go.hackerslash.

SPEAKER_02 5:33

Well, for the first film of our spooky preseason, we're breaking down a movie adapted from a novel Stephen King was inspired to write after a visit to a mechanic for a motorcycle repair. The story's title has gone on to be synonymous with ferocious dogs, but it was actually written at such a deep point in King's alcohol addiction, he doesn't even remember writing it. The film star Scream Queen D. Wallace's Donna Trenton just two years after we last saw her in The Howling. In it, we see what happens when she and her family cross paths with a friendly Saint Bernard who suddenly changed after being bitten by a bat. This week we're talking about Cujo. Who's seen this one before?

SPEAKER_01 6:10

This is one that I haven't seen, but I have always known the odd fact that Stephen King doesn't remember writing this, and I find it to be so intriguing. Why would you ever know that? I listen to a lot of podcasts where people just talk about stuff. Okay, that's great. I don't know. Stephen King's one of those really interesting people where arguably a lot of his work comes from like deep dives into alcohol and drug use. So I don't know. It's a weird one, but yeah, I've I've always been a little afraid of Cujo.

SPEAKER_00 6:37

I I've seen this before. I was much younger when I saw it. I think this is probably a film I've only seen once before this.

SPEAKER_02 6:45

I admire you, Mac. This is a film that I intentionally have never seen. I've had zero interest, precisely zero, in ever watching this movie. I am not someone who enjoys films where dogs die, and I didn't even know what would be the case with Cujo, but I figured a dog is an antagonist, not a good time. So I I didn't think that I could handle the emotions of this movie. So really going into it, I expected it to be well acted. I expected it to be a good story. I expected it to be pretty simple, but I also expected to be so uncomfortable the entire time just because of my own sensibilities.

SPEAKER_01 7:24

I think that's a safe expectation because the notion of a killer dog is scary. And there's no secret. Everybody already I think kind of knows what Cujo is about, right? But I guess I went in kind of similarly, a little bit like apprehensive, not sure how this was gonna go. But it does seem pretty straightforward. It does seem like a dog that attacks people.

SPEAKER_00 7:48

I knew what I was getting into, and so I prepared myself to just wince a lot. Cujo, it's it's kind of horrendous anytime you have any sort of animal as an antagonist, because you know something's probably gonna happen to that animal. So I wasn't looking forward to that. I'll say that. I talked to a friend about this before I watched it, and I let them know like I have to watch it, but at the same time, just like I'm not looking forward to seeing an animal antagonist. And when it's like an alligator or something, it's a little bit different, but this is man's best friend. And so when I'm watching it, it's a tough watch. You know, even knowing it's a movie, it was it was tough. Um, although we'll we'll talk about more aspects of the film later that I think kind of split up the toughness.

SPEAKER_02 8:35

Ooh, it's funny you say tough because I was texting someone as I was watching this movie, and not in like the terms of like not paying attention to it, but I had to keep pausing it. Like Alexis gave me a call in the middle of it, and I was like, thank God for some emotional reprieve. But I wrote this text, I'm gonna read this out loud. I'm currently struggling through this movie I'm watching right now for tomorrow's episode. It's Cujo. First time watching it, and it's rough. Hate that. No pun intended, but absolutely intended. This movie made me feel so many things when I was watching it. And one of the things that I expected, right, was like obviously to be uncomfortable, but I didn't know anything beyond the fact that it was a dog. I was hoping maybe it'd be like a demon dog situation, not like a dog who's super chill and really nice, and then all of a sudden is not nice. That that got me. This made me feel so many things. I was concerned for Cujo. I was concerned no one was concerned for Cujo. And I was just like heartbroken through the beginning of this movie. And then I think obviously there's some really deep themes in here that kind of balance it out a little bit. But man, my heart was just hurting through the majority of this movie.

SPEAKER_01 9:47

I agree. I think I had my heart set on the same thing, which was like evil dog. And also for some reason, I think I thought like ghost dog, but maybe I was mixing things up with like Pet Cemetery, which I haven't seen. But I was hoping like spirit of a dog wants to kill people, you know?

SPEAKER_02 10:05

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:06

Well, it's not that. So there's there's that part of it which is sad, and then also this movie reminded me of Pumpkin Head, kind of in a sense of like how I felt like it wanted me to care for people and things in a way, but I didn't. I did not care at all because a lot of the people in this movie are trash. So I don't know. While I was watching this, I spent a lot of time kind of like, I don't know how to feel about the characters and stress about Cujo. It was a lot, there's a lot happening here.

SPEAKER_02 10:38

For sure, there was, and I think the work that the story does with its characters is one of the things that surprised me most. And I know that the ending of this movie is different from the ending of the book. I know the way it handles a character in particular is very, very different. But for a movie that is about a dog who's not chill in any good sense, right? I did not expect them to focus so heavily on some of the more familial themes, which obviously is dumb. Why would I not think that? It's Stephen King. I've seen Pet Cemetery, seen so many elements of his work, but I didn't know if this would be more of like a dog and child situation. I didn't expect it to be mother, child, father. What's the situation in terms of isolation? How do we get into this? Two families even. Yeah, and there was a lot to unpack there. And even looking back on it now, I've been like kind of struggling with how the surprises in this movie made me feel about it. And I think now, as I'm considering this, there are some things that I feel very fondly about in terms of how they approach the story, but for sure, the direction the characters took, total surprise to me. Cujo included.

SPEAKER_00 11:50

You know, that's the thing that that caught me off guard as well because it's been a long time since I watched this. I've only seen it one other time. And I just didn't realize this entire time how good the interpersonal drama was. Uh, there's like one family that's particularly campy, but the other the other characters there, I feel like they really did a lot to show us dysfunction in a very human way, and I just totally forgot that was even a thing, or just never realized it to begin with.

SPEAKER_01 12:15

I'll have to agree, it is really surprising how family focused this movie is. Because it kind of has nothing to do with Cujo for a long time. There's a significant amount of this movie that is unkujo-related, sadly. Whether that whether that's good or bad, maybe is up for debate. But there's a lot of it where you I mean, they just show him for a second, but he's not actually part of anything.

SPEAKER_02 12:35

Yeah. Which I think is interesting though, because then Cujo is used as a ticking time bomb, which doesn't really break down for me as like a lot of fear. There's some jump scares in this movie that are pretty effectively placed, but I think the biggest fear in this, right, is just like the fear that this could happen to your own pooch. You know what I mean? Like I hugged my dog so much after watching this movie. I wanted to invite her. She hasn't been allowed in my bed in a little while, especially now that I have white sheets. But um, I wanted to invite her in my bed. I'm like, you sweet, sweet angel, my own little cujo. Never get never go exploring anywhere. Don't stick your head in any holes, just leave the world alone and stay inside with me, please.

SPEAKER_01 13:14

So, what I found to be scariest about this movie is I feel like we don't think about rabies enough in the world. And it really, it really made me feel like like Michael Scott was on to something with his rabies walk. The 5k for rabies. And I know it's been solved, but it it does feel like something we need to be more concerned about.

SPEAKER_02 13:35

It's funny how this movie is what does it for us, but not wreck. It's like a dog gets rabies, bites a kid, and then that ends up you know, like quarantining a whole fucking apartment building, people turn into zombies. That's not what concerns us. But poor little Cujo, man. Poor little Cujo.

SPEAKER_01 13:52

I mean, he was out here getting it, so I don't know. He's a little scarier, I'd say.

SPEAKER_00 13:58

I don't know. I was not scared by the film. I was more scared, like you mentioned, for the dog because the the dog's the thing at risk in this situation. Like somebody was talking to me about it. They're like, oh, don't you feel bad for the characters in the film? And I was like, no, they're people, they'll be fine. I don't really feel bad for them at all. Also, they made some decisions along the way that might have led them to this, but the dog didn't. The dog is just it's a it's man's best friend, it's just living its best life, and something happens to it, and that's horrifying and horrible. And you know, that's what causes fear in my mind. We are like required to have rabies vaccines when you adopt from the SPCA in in our state, which is great. Um, but I just can't imagine that like back then having a dog that's at risk if it were to be, I don't know, bitten by a raccoon or something.

SPEAKER_02 14:45

Yeah, that's purely terrifying. Even when I lived out in the country when I was a kid, and we had a dog who had puppies, and you just have a whole litter of puppies, and it's like, wow, you run down yonder to some fucking creek, and who knows what you're running into, right? So for sure, it's it's really important, but I think that was like the scariest part of this film, which I will say I know that I have seen many creature features, right? I've seen many films in which there is a human or group of humans opposed to some kind of animal of some sort. We talk about this with jaws, we talk about this with crawl, we talk about this with any number of things, right? But it's different when it's man's best friend. It's different when it's a domestic house pet. It's different when it's not church who gets hit by a car and then buried in a pet cemetery. It's very, very different. It's a sudden transformation. It's like this is almost akin to like a zombie movie. And we think about like, oh, like imagine a zombie apocalypse, you having to stare down one of your family members, what would you do? It's like this is a closer to reality situation, and it's just really fucking sad, man. It's different, but it's sad.

SPEAKER_01 15:56

I was actually thinking about this a lot, and I was trying to consider if this really does feel like a creature feature. Because I I do think that's like the closest to relate it to, but yeah, it's just so different. It's so different being a dog, especially because you see him before. So I don't know. I I think the movie as a whole is original, but I don't know, it's just such a weird one, it's such a hard thing.

SPEAKER_00 16:21

I think it has a very memorable impact on you because I had seen this how long ago and forgot so much about the story. Um, but like remembered the final act. I remembered the premise of Cujo and I remembered the emotions when watching Cujo. I think there's nothing else quite like it.

SPEAKER_02 16:39

This movie has a natural ending. I think it's a conclusive ending. I think it's one that like some a lot of people will probably feel pretty good about, but I don't know how I feel about it.

SPEAKER_00 16:49

I think the ending though is very memorable. I think it lasts in your mind. And so that in that way it's it's effective, right? Like it it does wrap up the story, but it's memorable. Whether good or bad, you're not gonna forget the ending of Cujo.

SPEAKER_01 17:04

Yeah, I think it's like a pretty classic approach to the ending. I think it kind of matches the themes of the movie. I I don't know how I feel. I don't know how I feel about a lot of things. It's it's a it's just a tough one. It's tough in in many ways, but it's just what's expected, I think.

SPEAKER_02 17:22

Well, for as much as we don't know how we feel, we are sure gonna be in a position here in a moment where we have to know how we feel. But before we actually rate this movie, Ryan, what's the gore score for Cujo?

SPEAKER_01 17:34

So the gore score for Cujo is pretty mid-range. We get a little bit of gore, but we don't get too much. And it's certainly something you could swallow if if you're a little sensitive to gore. But what about the animal report? Yeah, unsurprisingly, animal report, not cool for Cujo. It's just like it's just rough. I i there's no other way to describe it. It's rough.

SPEAKER_02 17:57

Yeah. Not even he's not even the only animal in this movie. Yeah, and even if he was, it's just a lot. We have things to unpack, but let's go ahead and make our way to our ratings. Cujo for 1983, was it a hack or a slash?

SPEAKER_00 18:10

Having seen this twice, I can go first. The film has really compelling family crises that make for a really interesting dramatic setup to the ultimately brutal third act, but this is a hack for me, simply due to animal suffering. I was not looking forward to watching this again. I can't imagine losing a Dr. Abies, but I don't think it would look anything like this. I think you're looking at things like paralysis of limbs, uh, you're looking at going out with a final, really violent seizure, um, not a dramatic attack on any humans that just happen to be nearby you like this, it's just so it's so outlandish, and it I get it, it makes for a horror movie or whatever, but like the entire film I just spent worrying about the dog and not really caring about the humans. Like, yeah, they did a good job building relationships, and they were really interesting. I think it would have been a brilliant drama without Cujo in it. Um, but Cujo honestly just I'm just worried about the dog the whole time. That's it. And I hated seeing the dog go from happy to suffering to his ultimate fate. I couldn't stand it. It was really tough. Didn't want to see it again, and it's gotta be a heck.

SPEAKER_01 19:19

You know, I think a lot of our listeners are gonna be like, what the heck? But like I have to agree with you. I think for me, the big thing is that I didn't enjoy watching a rabid dog as the antagonist. No part of it was exciting for me, no part of it was fun for me, and I gotta be honest, I kind of mentioned this before. I felt like they wanted me to feel pumpkin head feelings in this movie about like the family, especially the sun. And I didn't. I I didn't feel any of it. This is not a good time. It doesn't feel good, and I don't know. I mean, maybe this is gonna sound silly to a lot of people, like these people care more about dogs than they do about humans, and that's not true. Like, I love humans, okay? But also, Cujo is so nice, it's just so hard to watch a dog go from being like a loving part of a family. Maybe that family is not very loving, but he's loving, and then all of a sudden he's just like a complete monster, but not enough of a monster to be unrealistic, just like all of a sudden, evil. And I just don't buy it. I needed honestly something a little more like supernatural to happen to him. Like he needed to be possessed, it needed to be something, but I did not enjoy watching a dog try to kill people.

SPEAKER_02 20:36

Okay, so obviously both of those stances are incredibly valid. This movie is not one that is easy to feel good about if you consider yourself someone who like really loves dogs that you don't want to see any harm come to them on screen. Like, if you're the person who cares about the animal report, this is not the movie for you. Like, this just isn't. You both have shared a lot so well, and I just want to at least like take a moment to acknowledge like there are some amazing things about this movie. The effects, fucking stellar, the Cujo performance, top notch. Honestly, in the running for best performance of the year for me. I think Dee Wallace's performance is amazing. She is a scream queen who we talk about, and she doesn't get talked about, I think, in the exact same way as Jamie Lee Curtis, for example, but she certainly is deserving of it. And I think the seriousness and the gravity that she brings to this role, even in comparison to what she did in the Howling, is pretty it's pretty incredible. I think obviously this is a Stephen King movie that explores really dark themes. It really unpacks like the human and family dynamic. And and one of the best parts of that is how this movie approaches the shocks of coming of age, but not in the way that we see coming of age happen in it. Like, this is like how do you see trauma? As a child, and how do you react to that? And I think we all have a moment in our lives when we lose a pet for the first time, or we lose a family member for the first time, or we lose anyone or anything for the first time, and you have this like reality of like, how do you come to terms with loss or just change? And I think Pet Cemetery handles that really, really well. And I think this movie also handles that really, really well. Stephen King clearly has a niche, but this movie is just not my cup of tea, and that's all it is. Like, this movie is objectively a good movie. I am not the person who can appreciate and watch this movie and recommend it to my friends who are very similar to me and don't also want to see that. However, I think if if you're the kind of person who could stomach that, absolutely, this movie's for you. There's so much to love and so much to appreciate. This is a 49.9 slash 50.1% hack for me.

SPEAKER_01 22:58

I have to agree. I I don't want this to feel like we're like trash and cujo. I feel like we can all kind of appreciate it. It's just really hard to watch. And it these are uh to me, maybe you guys disagree, but these are like very personal hacks. Like this is not for me hack.

SPEAKER_00 23:14

I I agree as well. I don't think my hack has anything to do with the quality of the film. I think the quality of the film is actually high. I think the storytelling is also really good. Um, we've all mentioned the characters in the film and the interpersonal kind of workings that we get to see, and I think all that was was great. I think it it really comes down to just our ability to watch and enjoy the film.

SPEAKER_02 23:37

For sure. I mean, again, this movie is not a total joke or a waste of time. It's killer in a lot of ways, but it's not totally killer in the spirit that a slash for me is totally killer. If this were a numbered weight rating system, this movie would high have a high star score or number score because objectively it's a good movie. But man, it is not in my collection of movies that I ever want to really see again. Agreed. And with that, Kujo from 1983 has thus far, we'll see how the other two-fifths of our team feel, a new universal hack. Now you can find this movie available for rent purchase streaming online, but go ahead, check it out, and then join us in the second half so we can break down Kujo together. We'll see you in a bit.

SPEAKER_00 24:29

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SPEAKER_02 25:09

Welcome back, folks. You're now entering the spoiler zone for Cujo, which has earned a universal hack. We have a lot to unpack here, but before we get into the specifics of our ratings, we obviously had some death in this movie. Ryan, let's break down those deaths.

SPEAKER_01 25:24

So, with Cujo being a killer, we only have four kills, which honestly, I don't know if I could take that many more. I feel like four was a limit for me. I didn't even really want the fourth one. I could have done with it a little less, really. And I think we only count the fourth one with the fourth one being Cujo because it was a man in a dog suit. True. I guess when I say that, what I really mean is I could have done without the third one. I could have done without all of them, just to be honest. But I guess there's a chance you have a favorite.

SPEAKER_00 25:56

I have a favorite. It was very easy for me to pick this one, and it was the douchebag friend who's dumping beer cans in his own yard, otherwise known as Gary. First of all, like his whole attitude, uh, like, oh, let's go to Boston, you know, for a weekend or whatever, and he like decides to go. What what does he say? He's like, uh like I couldn't give a crap if I went, and that was his way of saying I'll go.

SPEAKER_01 26:19

Okay, but if you know good old country folks, that is kind of like how they agree to do stuff. They're just kind of like, I mean, I wouldn't, I don't, I don't mind if I go.

SPEAKER_00 26:29

Yeah, it was I don't know, it just like set there was like a ball rolling that was not gonna end well, and then when we get to the scene where he's in his beat-up house and he's collecting his sh soda cans, beer cans, whatever kind of cans he's got going on, he's legit dumping them in his yard, right? Like there's not like a bin that he's got, they're just going into the onto the grass. Is that what I'm seeing?

SPEAKER_01 26:49

More or less, that's what I took it as.

SPEAKER_00 26:51

Yeah, so he's like doing that, and then his attitude towards Cujo as then Cujo appears is instantly, it's not like, oh my gosh, this is my friend's dog. What's going on? I gotta get this dog some help, right? He's like, I'm gonna kill this dog because he's growling at me funny. And bad attitude, didn't like it. Cujo didn't like it either, and Cujo was like, F your front door, dude.

SPEAKER_01 27:12

Okay, but to be fair, I feel like Joe Camber was really the issue in the relationship. I feel like he was really like the one that was like, We're gonna go get hose and beer and gambling or something.

SPEAKER_00 27:25

Yeah, I don't think he said hose, but that's what he meant.

SPEAKER_01 27:27

He didn't say hose, but he meant it. I think he said what, gals, broads, broads, beer, and gambling for sure. That's what it was. He sucked.

SPEAKER_00 27:35

Yeah, neither of them were very cool. And they obviously were good matches for each other as friends. Uh, but that was my favorite kill. And we got to see a lot there. I feel like it really sets the tone for how much blood it's gonna be if we, you know, if we see kills in the future, it's like we're gonna show you this dude's throat mangled by a dog. That's gonna happen.

SPEAKER_02 27:53

I agree with you, Mac. That's a dope kill. Mine was Joe Camber because fuck that guy. Honestly, I was glad to see him go. I don't think he deserved Cujo by any stretch of the imagination. He did not deserve that dog's loyalty, and I'm glad that he met a bitter end. I have to agree.

SPEAKER_01 28:10

Joe sucked. That was obvious. And it sucked that his wife and son had to leave and leave Cujo because they were trying to leave like on the low. That's what really sucked about it. Because there there are those situations where she knew this was her only chance to leave, I feel like, and she had to leave Cujo behind. And that's a rough one. Can I go for like a favorite almost kill? Yeah. I would say actually Donna is my favorite. I know that she doesn't die here, but like the scenes, there's two specific scenes where she's getting like attacked by Cujo directly, especially when she gets her leg bitten. I feel like that scene's really intense, and yeah, it's not a kill, but it might as well be. I mean, it's I would say more than what we get for Joe, and pretty close to what we get for the sheriff.

SPEAKER_00 28:53

It also was a pretty extreme bite mark. And the only thought I had when I saw it was don't you have to get like shots with like a foot-long needle when you get bitten by a rabid animal? Isn't that like a thing from childhood that we all heard?

SPEAKER_02 29:07

Congratulations, Donna. You got rabies now. Okay, so Donna is a great almost death. Can I bum you out with a different death that would have happened in this movie had it been true to the fucking book? Sure. Little Tad. Little Tad doesn't survive. Honestly, he can go, oh god damn, right?

SPEAKER_01 29:25

He just did not do it for me. Tad, first off, what a name. Second, just just not hitting for me. Like, I mean, I he was adorable, but I feel like Tad almost did die. I would have rather seen Tad die from Cujo than like just almost dying from just being in the car and whatever he was doing, hyperventilating.

SPEAKER_00 29:44

He was having seizures.

SPEAKER_01 29:45

Yeah, but like completely no, we had no background basis of this behavior, and it was literally like a combination of like all of a sudden he's having seizures, asthma, night terrors, like it was just a whole set of things, and we were like, okay, he's gonna die here then. And honestly, I'd been fine.

SPEAKER_00 30:05

Although you did make a comment earlier that cracked me up a good bit. Because I think when you're watching it, you know, it's a matter of minutes, but in the story itself, this is happening over it's happening over what two days?

SPEAKER_01 30:17

It's at least two days. It seemed to me to be like almost three. I feel like we saw the sunrise a few times, but what these people didn't poop for days.

SPEAKER_02 30:26

They were clearly dehydrated and probably hadn't eaten much.

SPEAKER_01 30:29

Extremely dehydrated, but guess what? Whatever last meal they had, it's in there. I just the entire time I thought, mmm, you gotta poop. Somebody's gotta poop somewhere. A kid? He's gotta poop. Somebody has to poop. There's poop in the corner of the car somewhere. I just, I don't know. I can't stop thinking about it.

SPEAKER_02 30:46

Arguably, the nastiness of having to explore the logistics of that situation would have been gorier than what we actually got in terms of gore in this movie.

SPEAKER_01 30:54

I mean, yes and no. I'm kind of torn on the gore, and that's why I went with like a medium rating, because there's Joe. He's kind of killed off-screen, right? And even Cujo is killed off-screen. Like, we don't see that happen, thank the Lord. But we do get the shot of Gary with like his neck ripped open. We get uh just like generally speaking, Cujo is a very gory look, especially towards the end of the movie. It hopefully you guys agree. I mean, he's obviously not like dying of uh he's obviously not like ripped open, it's not that kind of gore, but he is disgusting, and he's like foaming and covered in blood. Yeah, the pus coming out of his eyes. Yeah, and his little droopy eyeballs. So that was really gross, and then of course we get like the cut, the the big gash out of Donna's leg. So I feel like we have some gore, it's just not over the top, and honestly, I don't think I could have handled anything more. Couldn't have done it. If you give me another like like bloody, more bloody Cujo, like Cujo with like slices and stuff. No, no, I couldn't do it.

SPEAKER_02 31:58

So this is Cujo, but you maybe could have tolerated more Cujo light versus Cujo Plus.

SPEAKER_01 32:04

Yeah, sure, sure. And on that note, I have a couple of like interesting things about Cujo himself. So there were five St. Bernard's used in this movie, one mechanical head and one guy in a dog costume, which I spent the entire bit of this movie trying to figure out how they were doing all these effects because it looks so good, especially for like a rabid dog. I feel like that's pretty hard to pull off. So I was expecting one of them to be like kind of a puppet costume situation, and I was excited to find out it was.

SPEAKER_00 32:36

You're proven right.

SPEAKER_02 32:37

It is wild to think about the seamlessness with which they pulled that off. There are some movies where it's clear that a person becomes a dummy as they're falling out of a window, or it becomes you know what I mean, it becomes very obvious. But at no point did I see anything in this movie that made me think, no, that's not a dog.

SPEAKER_01 32:54

I totally agree. And I think some of the interesting little things are like the dogs that were acting as Cujo would have their tails like wagging too much because they were having too good of a time. Because obviously you have to do things to get dogs to do all this activity. So that was cute, and then also like to get them to like attack the car and everything, they would throw like their favorite toys in there, which is adorable.

SPEAKER_00 33:19

Although at one point one of the trainers is in the car with one of their favorite toys, and the dog, as they jump to get their favorite toy, pushes the window down and accidentally bites the trainer's face, and then they had to go to the hospital.

SPEAKER_01 33:31

So wait, I actually didn't know that.

SPEAKER_00 33:34

Yeah, I mean, if you're playing with dogs whose mouths are open and you have their toy nearby you and you're you know telling them to do these things, accidents onset will occur.

SPEAKER_01 33:43

Oh, that's interesting. The last thing that I thought was really interesting is that there are some scenes where they had to use a Rottweiler, which makes total sense because honestly, St. Bernards are the cutest thing I've ever seen in my life. If they were a little bit less slobbery, I'd be real into it. Like if you live in the north where it's cold, I feel like you need a St. Bernard, you know? But Rottweilers are a little bit more vicious, so it makes sense. There's some spots where I'm like, how'd they get them to look so mean?

SPEAKER_02 34:09

I want to know how they pulled off having a Rottweiler in this film without me noticing.

SPEAKER_01 34:13

I was paying very close attention, and I don't know that I caught exactly when it would have been, but I feel like there were some moments where I was like, this is a different dog. If you think of some of the attack scenes of like Gary, where there's just like a lot of flashes of dog teeth biting and stuff, I think that's where it happened.

SPEAKER_02 34:28

Okay, that's fair. They bamboozled with me, they catfished me into thinking this is like one type of dog and then a guy in a dog costume, but it's cool. One of the things though that I loved visually about this movie is Cujo himself. Obviously, we have like the elements of like gore that get added to him. Obviously, we get like the super gross effects, like the pus and the eyes, and it just made me real, real sad for him. But the quality of the effects, the quality of the costume work for the guy in the suit, 10 out of 10. Like, honestly, this is such a well-executed film, and I feel so bad that this is going down as a universal hack. I feel like maybe if we had Paris and Alexis here, maybe one of them would have helped balance things out, maybe, because the effects in this movie are just so good.

SPEAKER_01 35:12

I have to agree, Kujo is also my favorite visual element, and to be fair, I would say the rest of this movie is a bit unremarkable when it comes to visuals. I mean, what else is there to love? Like the little red car. It's all pretty straightforward and like suburban in a way. So Cujo is definitely the coolest part of this movie, and and sometimes it sucks. Like some like towards the end, he's like so rough, but he's so cute, and I still want him to be okay, and I want to love him.

SPEAKER_00 35:40

My favorite visual element is also Cujo, specifically at the beginning of the film, chasing the bunny in the field. Because first of all, Cujo looks happy and is frolicking and is chasing and kind of doing his thing. The thing I love about the inclusion of this scene where Cujo is like normal and still feeling good, is we didn't need it, it wasn't required. We could have just had the shot of a dog getting bit by a bat and kind of skipped everything leading up. But I think it's great to have that juxtaposition because we get to see life when it's normal and then the absolute worst that it could get. And I love when horror movies do this. I've always mentioned the Jaws scene where it's like everyone's swimming out on the beach, and then suddenly in the background there's blood exploding. Like that's a great thing. You know, if we have Halloween and we see people trick-or-treating, and like that's normal life, but then also we have right on top of that, we have we have a serial killer walking around killing people. So I think you have to to have effective horror have that split where you can see what's at stake, and then you have to see what happens when something happens to it. It's also just a beautiful scene, like the field. I want to go run in that field.

SPEAKER_01 36:47

It was an adorable scene. And you know, I actually thought Kutra looked a little creepy during that. I guess because I was kind of preparing myself for it, right? I was just like waiting to find out what would happen to him. But it that was like the first moment where I realized that this was gonna be a movie with good effects and like good dog acting, like it wasn't gonna look corny because initially they could have come out the gate like there's a puppet chasing a bunny, and I was so glad they didn't. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:13

Although, what if it was a dog chasing a bunny puppet?

SPEAKER_01 37:16

Also, no, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 37:17

That scene was really cute. It actually reminded me of one of my favorite animated films, Secret of Nym, which gave me a little a a few fond points for it. But I think my favorite scene is actually a really small, unassuming thing toward the beginning of the film, and it's when we see Tad afraid of turning off his light and then jumping back in the bed to like get safety under the covers. And I think it sets the framework in a very solid way for what his journey is gonna be through this movie. Obviously, I think he ends up pretty static throughout it. He's afraid in the beginning of monsters in his closet. He's then becoming afraid of something that you know you wouldn't necessarily be afraid of in normal everyday life unless like you're being very cautious of a dog that you don't know, right? That's understandable. But to go from like the fantasy monsters to the real monsters is one layer of it. But then two, I'll never forget the first time I ever lost a dog and how fucking traumatic and heartbreaking that is. And this is like the traumatized version of a child losing their pet for the first time, except in this instance, this isn't pet cemetery where someone loses their pet. This is a kid being attacked by something that he thought was friendly, and that is a a different kind of grappling or maturation of this child in his life. And I don't think it would have been as successful had we not gotten that cute little moment in the beginning.

SPEAKER_01 38:42

Well, I'm glad that you see so deeply into this journey of Tad, because I personally saw a little bit less, but I do agree that that that scene at the beginning is very cute, and I think it's like so realistic him like running. It's we get Cujo running at the beginning, you know, chasing a bunny, and then we get him running, like dashing to his bed. It was adorable. My favorite scene, because of how absolutely absurd it is, is when Steve and Donna are in the kitchen after they've broken up in her house, and he's like, I don't know, casually assaulting her, and they spill something, and then all that happens is the husband and the son walk in, and the husband just says, yes or no. And I rewinded this scene probably four or five times because I was like, certainly I missed when he asked the question. I didn't. He didn't ask the question. They just knew what they were talking about, and it was just intense in so many ways. And I feel like it was the pivot point for this movie where things went from like, this is some story about some people to like here are some things going off the wall, and things got a little bit crazy. But I I I love it. It's my favorite scene because I hate it in a way.

SPEAKER_02 39:56

You know, it's one of those. I think generally that scene has what I think is the worst part of this movie, and that is not the fact that she had an affair or that we explored that and its impact on the relationship, but the fucking guy she had an affair with and then the casual assault after. Fuck that guy. Useless. Get him out of there. Contributes nothing positive to this story. We could have gotten the point of her having an affair in that tension without necessarily needing him occupying space in their home.

SPEAKER_01 40:27

Yeah, it went super rogue more than once. No, it's just kind of like an okay, like so. He's not alright. He's he's he's supposed to be the the stud or whatever, and uh yeah, things aren't okay up in there.

SPEAKER_00 40:42

But there is there is a theme throughout this whole film of this like corruption, and that is honestly my favorite scene is when we get to this news broadcast talking about the serial products that the dad's like marketing firm was working on. Um, and so it's like this reveal that this thing that is like so it's so whatever, it's serial, right? It's innocent, it's nothing. Kids are eating it, it's happy, there's nothing wrong here. And that's exactly the theme with the parents is at the beginning, you like it's like a little bit off, but there's nothing to talk about. Maybe we should have another baby, right? And first of all, that's not gonna fix anything.

SPEAKER_02 41:19

Second worst part of this, we run out of conversations. I think we should have another baby. What the fuck? No, bad idea.

SPEAKER_00 41:24

Yeah, so that that's a bad choice. But but it's all just it's just like the corruption of Cujo, where we get this absolutely gloriously fluffy dog that's just frolicking through a field, and then by the end, we just get this full corruption. But it's like, yeah, everything in this film has to start out like okay or normal, and then just end up being either revealed to be horrible or become horrible against our will. And it's an interesting theme. Uh, but that scene just really summed it up where we find out that this serial that is like, oh yeah, this it's all good, um, is like making kids puke and poop themselves and stuff. But then, you know, they have to deal with it as a couple, and to see them go back and forth just really revealed, I think, that there was some massively big issues going on there that they hadn't come to grips with yet.

SPEAKER_01 42:13

Speaking of issues that we need to come to grips with, I just need to say this because I think Chris is really gonna disagree with me here, and and I just gotta get off my chest. Donna is my least favorite final girl of all time. I felt like she lacked instinct. I feel like she didn't act motherly. I felt like her attempts to like get free and like get out of the situation were minimal, if if anything. I feel like she didn't have a plan. She would just like open a door, like she just woke up and opened a door, and like maybe we should like consider a plan. Next time the phone rings, I'm gonna go here, I'm gonna do that. It didn't seem like she had any of it. I did not enjoy Donna. I didn't. I hated it. I'm sorry. It it just she just didn't do it for me at all. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 43:02

So I'll sh I'll share this. I enjoy D. Wallace's performance. I think she portrayed Donna exactly as Donna needed to be portrayed for who the character is. I'm on board with that. I haven't read the book, so I I can't really like weigh in in terms of like what Stephen King's original vision is, but like in in terms of the film, I feel like she makes sense. I don't like Donna, but I also do think that she had instincts and was pretty motherly. I think she was a mother who loves her son but is detached in a way because she's unhappy. And I get that. I don't think the husband's particularly happy either. I think they're both kind of going through the motions of their lives together. And for sure she could have made some better decisions along the way. I don't know that she had that many options. You know what I mean? I can appreciate that when Cujo is first on scene, she's concerned about her son because it's an unfamiliar dog. And then she kind of like gets over it and lets him interact with Cujo. And I think she fought tooth and nail to protect her child and to try to make a run for it. And I think the way that she approaches like the moments where Tad is kind of slipping away, and the fact that she realizes what's happening to him, like, okay, it's it's now or never if I'm gonna save my child, if my child's gonna be okay, I have to get into that house. And then she squares up when she honestly had no business surviving this movie. Like, really, she should have died. And I can admire that. I don't think she's a bad, like, final girl. I don't think she's particularly likable in a lot of ways. But I I don't think she was totally useless.

SPEAKER_01 44:36

I just feel like she waited until her son was dying to make moves. Like they they sat in the car for two days. I feel like that phone rang enough times. We could have had some some level of escape, some level of something. I don't know. It just felt like a lot of time like sitting there, like, I I also want to leave, son. Thank you for asking to go home. I would like to go home too. Like, but do something about it. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 45:02

I think, however, that we are spoiled by a lot of modern film where every suburban person ever is a survivalist or a warrior in some way. Like we see a lot of movies like The Equalizer, where it's like, oh, I'm just a guy that works at a hardware store. But in reality, I'm a CIA super agent that can kill people with, you know, a pencil shaving or something. And I think that's just not real life. This, this, this mom is just trying to do what she can think of in the moment, but she's just as scared as her son and doesn't know what to do. In reality, what I would have done on that hill is uh waited for the dog to walk away, put it in neutral, started kicking with my feet as as hard as I could, shut the door as soon as I saw the dog running, and see if I can get a roll going. And then if I can get a roll, get that wheel, whip it around, try to drive out, but but maybe it was a flat surface. Maybe it never would have worked.

SPEAKER_01 45:52

We don't, you know, I don't know. It's a good point though. You at least would have tried something.

SPEAKER_00 45:56

Right. But but we're looking at it from the outside. We're not caught in the moment. Because I'm sure if the three of us were in this car with a dog outside that's like, you know, rabid, we probably would have been like, oh my God, like what do we do? How do we fix this dog? How do we get it healthy?

SPEAKER_01 46:10

I would have to poop so bad, there would be no way to stop me from finding a solution to this problem. Okay. The stress levels, are you joking me? I'd have had this solved like one hour in, tops.

SPEAKER_00 46:21

I do like that she is a realistic mom in many ways. I think, like you said, Chris, like it's obvious that there's some detachment going on emotionally for everybody involved. Um, I when she flipped out at him, just like that momentary outburst, that's a realistic thing. Like it's a high stress situation.

SPEAKER_02 46:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:39

And she like kind of blows up a little bit and then, like, okay, like cools down. But that happens all the time when kids are going at it and they're just yelling and screaming and yelling, and you have to be like, all right, just like shut it down.

SPEAKER_02 46:50

Sure. Yeah, she's been acclaimed for that moment and how relatable her portrayal was of like raising a child, a young child who's just like panicking and freaking out and just like hyperventilating in a high stress situation. Like so many people have talked about how relatable that moment is and why it's one of her great performances.

SPEAKER_00 47:08

But I I think when we look at the other characters as well, we have some really good characters, but I think the interactions are what makes them interesting. Like her relationship with Vic, super interesting because we we see the small stuff that has probably led them to this place. Like Vic continually just puts stuff off, like getting her car fixed, and then is like, oh, I'll fix it myself and can't. So then what does he do? When he finds out what's going on, he's just like, fix it yourself now. But he said he was gonna do it, and he didn't do it all along the way. His own car, you know. I mean, he could have just like dropped it off the place and waited for a real mechanic to take care of it, but this dude is obviously looking for some shortcuts.

SPEAKER_01 47:51

It's a Pinto. I would have done the same thing.

SPEAKER_00 47:53

Even his own Jaguar, though, you know, he didn't he didn't give it the attention.

SPEAKER_01 47:57

Yep, his own Jaguar.

SPEAKER_02 47:59

I think the observation about him taking shortcuts is such a great one, Mac, and it's not one that I really thought that deeply into. I think the character work in this film spectacular, but what I think bothered me was a his thought of having another child to save their marriage, which I know is a common thing and people do. Like this is like a thing that like people run through in terms of like how do we keep this going? But there's a complexity of his part and the guilt he has in terms of what's happening with that advertisement. But then the more he talked about it, the more I wondered, are you just concerned about the ramifications on you versus the impact it's had on children? So that was something for me. And then the framing of him as the dutiful husband returning to save the day, it felt a little bit off for me. Granted, I think he asked all the right questions. He was there, he did the right thing. What do you mean this guy hasn't checked in yet? I need to go find her, I'm gonna go myself. I could appreciate that. But I think something felt off about all of them, which I think speaks to how well each character in this film was performed, unlike the original Pet Cemetery, when I couldn't stand the father figure at all.

SPEAKER_01 49:11

You know what really stressed me out is I haven't been in this relationship situation, but I have been in situations where like something's off, right? Like there was a fight or something, and then you have to leave because you were already planning to leave or whatever. And the idea of like I just found out my wife is cheating on me, and now I've left town and now she doesn't answer the phone for two days, that's so stressful because I feel like you know, now we have cell phones, things are a little bit more normal. If someone's not answering the phone for two days, it's on it, it's on purpose, right? But in these times, like to see through it and to see, like, oh, I need to go home, like she's not answering the phone and like things aren't okay, even though things already weren't okay. I feel like I I really aligned with that. He was honestly, I don't know, maybe one of my favorite characters in the whole movie. Because I feel like even though he wasn't perfect, no one was here, but he he did the right thing where it was like something still feels off, even though things already felt off, you know? Like they didn't even hug or kiss goodbye, anything. He just said, I'll see you. So things are off, but he still had that instinct.

SPEAKER_02 50:23

Okay, so here's what I'll give him for this. He's probably one of the best dads we've seen in a horror movie.

SPEAKER_01 50:28

Yeah, he's I mean, he's he's he's pretty good. He's he's particularly adorable with Tad.

SPEAKER_02 50:33

Yeah. Even outside of that, it's like the most of the time it's the dad saying nothing is wrong, everything's fine, and then doing dumb shit, and it's only the mom making decisions about like this is how we need to get out of here. I think we've seen the opposite of that in the conjuring. But for him to do the right things and to trust his gut and to go home and then to continue to address this, I would give you that.

SPEAKER_00 50:57

There is one decision though that would have saved his wife and child from all of this.

SPEAKER_02 51:02

Fixing the car in the first place?

SPEAKER_00 51:03

Yeah, just getting the car fixed. Just fixing it the first time. She's like, Can you bring it in? She wouldn't have been in the car with her kid all alone with him off somewhere else. So that horror movie dad thing where there's like always one choice that like screws everybody over. Uh he still had one, and it was it's his his behavior where he drags his feet on stuff when she asks him to do it.

SPEAKER_01 51:24

Okay, but I don't think I'm anyone to judge my inspection is a year behind.

SPEAKER_00 51:28

But also, he's driving a Jaguar and she's driving a Pinto.

SPEAKER_02 51:33

So honestly, great dad, shitty husband.

SPEAKER_00 51:36

Here's here's my trouble with that. The family car needs to be a family car. You're not gonna be like the three of us are going to drive around in a jaguar and get some groceries, but like, don't have a jaguar then, dude. You know? Go get a station wagon, and that's maybe that's what you get there.

SPEAKER_01 51:50

I'm gonna defend the patriarchy here for a moment. If you are the moneymaker, you kind of do get the car that you want.

SPEAKER_00 51:57

Ah, or you think about it conversely, which is if I'm making the money, I gotta make sure my family's set up for success.

SPEAKER_01 52:04

The pinto was not what the pinto is now.

SPEAKER_00 52:08

Yeah, and back then they didn't think about it like we think about it.

SPEAKER_01 52:11

It wasn't the the lemon that we know, you know?

SPEAKER_00 52:14

Right. We they didn't realize yet what was going on. Yeah, I I I get that.

SPEAKER_02 52:19

Either way, leaving town and leaving your wife with a problem, when clearly, like in this relationship, it's clear that they have arranged things in such a way in which he has a job and her job is to raise Tad and to stay home and and maintain things, etc. Right? To walk away from that situation and just kind of leave her with this problem that Mac, you point out in a great way, he's already committed to fixing instead of just getting it solved by someone else originally. It's just a shitty move. I dislike him more now.

SPEAKER_01 52:52

Wait till your wife cheats on you one day, and then you'll see if you get the car fixed. Because I feel like no one gets the car fixed when you find out that your partner's cheating on you.

SPEAKER_02 53:02

Yeah, but it's still the mother of your child, and your child rides in that car. There's that part of it. Also, I've been cheated on several times, and I know the feelings of bitterness. I don't want to deal with anything related to the atmosphere of you. I get it. A hundred percent I get it. And I understand him feeling hurt and feeling scorned, but in the same way that you praise him for putting those things aside and going home to return, he could have still cared to make sure that at least his child was riding in a safe car, regardless of how he felt about Donna. But then we wouldn't have a movie.

SPEAKER_00 53:35

That's true. It would have been one hour it would have been a drama, to be quite honest. And in the background, we'd hear that oh, did you hear that uh the so-and-so's dog got rabies? Yeah. Anyway, moving on with our couple's uh counseling, you know, that's where it would have ended. This does lead me to what I think is the best part of the movie. I think it's probably the first two acts of the film. With the slightly troubled marriage revealed to be a struggling marriage, along with each character's attempt to process what's happening around them. I think it made for a really compelling drama, not just 90 minutes of hiding from a rabid dog, which this movie totally could have been if they wanted to do that. I think there has to be at least another two hours of post-trauma marriage counseling leading to reconciliation, somewhere in like the movie multiverse that would have accompanied this. But yeah, this is this is legit like a straight-up drama. And then also there happens to be this side story with Kuja that like intersects with everything. And so I think the best part is the fact that this was, as I always you know, give major credit for this was a character-driven film.

SPEAKER_02 54:34

I think that's a great compliment to give it, and I agree with you a hundred percent. As much as I dislike some of the decisions that are made or some of the tense moments that we as an audience are subjected to, it's almost like secondhand embarrassment in some ways, and like secondhand discomfort and tension of like, ooh, I really wish this marriage was going in a different direction. I get it. I think for me, the best part is the way the plot progresses in terms of how you see Cujo transform before he ever attacks anyone. And I love that we see Cujo as he was, and we hear about him. The the son and that and his family talks about how friendly he was and how he wouldn't hurt a f hurt a fly. But then we also hear when uh Joe and Gary are sitting at the table and Gary's like, you couldn't sick that dog on me. Because he's just so passive and so chill. So I love seeing and hearing and feeling the transformation and then feeling the tension ratcheted up in the movie the more we see him get sicker and sicker and sicker, which I hate seeing him sick, but it's neither here nor there.

SPEAKER_01 55:42

I think I have to agree the best part is definitely a couple of things. The the progression of Cujo, also though, like the progression of aggression of Cujo, if that makes sense. Like he kind of starts with like, I'm attacking you, you know, you're standing in front of me, but the way he attacks the car in this movie over and over with like new techniques, does all these different things. Sometimes he's you know getting through a crack of a window, then he's busting a window, then he's scratching at the windows. I think it it just really shows like how like I don't know, crazy he's going, how rabid he is. It's tough. I don't want to see it, but I do think it's like what makes people enjoy this movie. I think that's why this movie is the classic that it is. It's because Cujo is so good and he gets crazy.

SPEAKER_00 56:32

The one scene that I think really shows that Cujo is still Cujo, at least for a little bit, is when we're in the fog and he sees Brett and they like Brett realizes something's wrong, and then Cujo like fully makes that choice of like this is my friend, and like has to leave and leaves Brett alone. And it makes me wish that at the end of the film they would have changed it, you know, that we would get Brett coming home because they also didn't get any calls. I know that they've bounced, I get that. They like they've left this man, but if they would have come home and then Brett would have been there and stopped Cujo from killing them, and then they would have gone through the trauma of him having to like realize what's happened with his pup, and then they have to put the pup down, but he gets to be there to say goodbye to him. I think it would have been like a very different film.

SPEAKER_01 57:18

Okay, so you want this to be more sad, cool.

SPEAKER_00 57:20

Just more lifetime.

SPEAKER_01 57:22

What I really thought was gonna happen was that they were gonna remember how the dad was like, I'm gonna give you the words, like the anti-monster words, basically, right? Like the little thing that he says. I really thought Tad was gonna like boss up and like start saying the like no monsters thing that he says. And I thought that was gonna be like a cute thing, and I thought like Cucho was gonna be okay, and it didn't go that way at all. But I really, really I was like, oh, for sure, that's definitely what's gonna happen. I just knew.

SPEAKER_02 57:50

I do wonder if that happened in the book at all, and it just didn't make it to the movie.

SPEAKER_01 57:54

It seems like it would, because why who cares about the monsters tag the monster thing tagged on the wall? Like, this is what you can say when they come back. I don't know. I think this will be a good book to read.

SPEAKER_02 58:05

Yeah, I uh I would say that, but then also I don't want to be sad. I don't want like if I feel this much for Cujo in a compressed runtime of a movie, I don't want to explore all the pages of Cujo and the family and dog loss. No, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 58:20

Okay, I think it would be easier to see Cujo as a monster in a book than in a movie, because in the movie you see the adorable Cujo. I feel like in a book I might be able to imagine it as actually like a creature feature.

SPEAKER_00 58:33

From I I haven't read it, but from what I've heard, um it's not just like a simple bat bit me now I have rabies kind of situation, uh, but it's related to other Stephen King properties in the novel. So there's more nefarious things at play.

SPEAKER_01 58:46

I'm kind of into it. I don't want to watch this movie again, but I'm kind of into the idea of reading it.

SPEAKER_00 58:51

Yeah, I don't want to read it and I don't want to watch it again. I think I didn't really want to watch it this time because I had already seen it once. Um, but yeah, no, no more for me.

SPEAKER_02 58:59

I'm right there with you, Mac. I don't want to read it, I don't want to see it. I've experienced it. I checked that box, I avoided it for 32 years, and now here we are. I think I can move on from this movie, but let's see what other wisdom you can impart upon us in fact or fiction.

SPEAKER_00 59:13

Number one, D. Wallace, who plays Donna, and Christopher Stone, who plays her lover, Steve Kemp, shared one thing with their characters. They were romantically involved during filming, even though Christopher Stone was still married to his then wife.

SPEAKER_01 59:25

Yikes. Fact.

SPEAKER_00 59:27

Fiction. They were actually married to each other.

SPEAKER_01 59:30

Okay, so yes, but no. Thanks.

SPEAKER_00 59:33

Yeah. No, they were they were actually married at the time of filming. Number two, the Tadpole himself, Danny Pintaro, was still quite a young Tadpole during filming and hadn't learned how to read. His mom would have to help him memorize his lines.

SPEAKER_01 59:45

I feel like he should have been old enough to read. Like generally. Ugh, this is this was real 50-50. I'll go fiction.

SPEAKER_00 59:53

This one is a fact. He was six years old at the time.

SPEAKER_01 59:56

I feel like six-year-olds can like kind of okay.

SPEAKER_00 59:59

I don't know. What is what grade are you in? I don't know if you can even read more than letters at that point.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:03

It just depends. They kind of like know what words look like. That's the thing. Okay, anyway, I'm just gonna get them all wrong.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:09

Number three. Brett got freaked out by Cujo in the fog, but the local townspeople got freaked out by the fog itself during filming and started arriving near set to look for fires in the woods.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:19

Fiction.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:19

Fiction, but it's kind of true because the fire department showed up thinking that there was fire in the woods.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:26

This was man like like set made fog?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:28

Yeah, this was a naval fog machine. And then number four. The scenes in which Donna and Tad were trapped in the car were especially grueling due to the heat. So they took collectively longer than the rest of the film to shoot due to the necessary brakes to cool down Danny Pintaro and D. Wallace.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:42

I'll go fact, it did seem actually hot.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:44

There were sweaty little peeps. However, this is fiction. It looked hot, but it was pretty chilly. They even had to get heaters set up inside the car to keep them warm.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:53

Thank God I'm not a baseball player, because boy would I be hitting bad.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:56

And that's been fact for fiction.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:58

Well, there you have it, folks. Cujo has earned a universal hack. But again, objectively a good movie. It's just our tender sensibilities that keep us in the hack territory. We've certainly had a robust discussion here, but it doesn't end here by any means. Particularly this September, we want to know what you think. Join in on the conversation by hanging out with us for free over in our Discord and participating in our spooky preseason. There are links in our show notes where you can sign up.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:22

If you've enjoyed listening to this episode, consider becoming one of our patrons. Visit patreon.com/slash hackerslash to enjoy more of the show with early access, extended episodes, bonus content, and live shows.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:34

We'll see you next time, folks, and remember, there are no real monsters.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:38

Woof