231: Hellraiser (1987)

SPEAKER_01 0:04

You're telling me that like Pinhead pretty much works at Sephora butt in hell.

SPEAKER_02 0:13

Greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hacker Slash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. We have such sights to show you. If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack, a total joke, a waste of time, or a slash.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

Totally killer, pun intended.

SPEAKER_02 0:32

We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, we're writing these movies with the perspective we've gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast. This week I'm joined by the Superfly Space Guy Mac.

SPEAKER_01 0:46

Everything's alright. Frank is here.

SPEAKER_02 0:48

The gore lover Alexis, we don't need a bed, do we? And the cowardly creeper Ryan, perhaps we prefer you. This week we're checking out an 80s classic, which has a reboot coming out on Hulu in just a few weeks. Before we get down to business though, we have some follow-up.

SPEAKER_01 1:03

Let's follow up on a movie. Recently, we watched and reviewed the movie Nope by Jordan Peel. We wanted to know what you all thought. So we held a poll. 4% of you gave it a hack, and 96% slashed it.

SPEAKER_04 1:15

Which is slightly offensive. Whoever is in the 4%, you should be ashamed.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

I'm going to assume somebody pressed the wrong button. But moving on, we have some Instagram comments about the movie. Robbie says, I saw Nope twice in theaters. It still lives rent-free in my head. Peel's films are deep.

SPEAKER_04 1:32

Okay, so I just saw it a second time, and I have to agree, it does live in my head. I've thought about the idea of what happens in this movie more than any other sci-fi movie I've ever thought about ever. Because I don't think about them generally.

SPEAKER_01 1:48

We should change that, just saying.

SPEAKER_04 1:49

I try sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 1:50

EC says you can't control wild beasts. You only have an understanding with them. Quote, you'll die if you try from it. Ash says, it joins the ranks of Alien and the Thing as one of the best alien horror movies ever made. Ash, thank you so much for that sentiment because I'm there with you.

SPEAKER_05 2:06

Spoiler alert, just kidding. I figured it was about that. But these comments make me so excited. I haven't seen this movie yet, but definitely need to watch it soon. Step it up, Alexis. I'm ashamed. Black phone kind of ruined it for me.

SPEAKER_02 2:18

Not relevant at all. Listen, you've missed Nope and Scream, so your 2022 basically hasn't existed. Oh. But I won't miss Halloween.

SPEAKER_01 2:26

Well, Alan says, definitely love the direction they went with the alien in this. Now over on Discord, Ashley says, I loved the characters in this movie. I saw it on IMAX and it was so beautiful. I enjoyed the second half much more than the first half, but this is probably my least favorite of Jordan Peel's movies. I have to echo Ryan's sentiment of kind of missing the usual Jordan Peel of it all. The twistiness and usual darkness wasn't there, and I kind of missed it. And speaking to the family fun aspect of it that Paris feels, I took my son and he enjoyed it way more than I did. I thought the slow burn would make him bored because he's a slasher fan like me, but he had more fun than I did. His only critique was that the monkey side story seemed unnecessary to him.

SPEAKER_04 3:03

Two things. One, the monkey side story, after having rewatched it, feels so much better. And I don't know why, but this time I'm like, wow, it's all so clear. I see everything. Everything I was confused about after I watched Nope the first time, I understand it all now. And second, while this is maybe not your favorite Jordan Peel movie, that should not take away from anyone that hasn't seen it yet. Because it's still, you know, Jordan Peel's top of the top of the food chain. So if it's not the best, it's still at the top of the food chain, you know?

SPEAKER_01 3:31

And finally, Diana says, Finally saw Nope last night, and I still have so many thoughts this morning. I love this movie, but in a different way to how I loved us and get out. I would say this is like the fun-loving sibling compared to the hold your breath kind of feeling and get out and the uneasy feeling of us. I will say the whole side story about Gordy the Chimp still throws me off. It felt like a movie within a movie moment that somehow took me out of it, but loved everyone in the movie, especially Kiki Palmer. She deserved all the flowers because she was so real with flaws, but she knew she was charming all at the same time.

SPEAKER_02 4:01

Oh, Diana, I 100% agree. Kiki Palmer was such a star in this movie. And Ryan, I haven't gotten around to seeing it a second time yet, but I absolutely plan to very soon, particularly as I think it's going to be coming out for home release later. One of the things that I loved so much though is this is obviously the first Jordan Peele film that we've seen while having our Discord community. And it was amazing to see all the interaction we got from people who are watching it opening night and then immediately jumping into the spoiler chats so we could all unpack it and share our ideas together.

SPEAKER_04 4:33

That is so true because especially I feel like there was a lot to talk about. We there were a lot of us discussing things, talking about things. So with that, we also want to take a minute to thank all of you who are pre-gaming October with us by participating in our spooky preseason community challenge. I personally think hanging out with people on Discord is the best part of all the lovely people that listen to us. We all get to hang around. So thanks for kicking it with us. And if you don't know what I'm talking about, we're running a month-long party in Discord. And at the end of the month, we're giving away two packages of podcast merch and stuff with a bunch of our faces on it that you will love. So come join the fun. You can learn more by following the link in our show notes or by going directly to go.hackerslash.

SPEAKER_01 5:14

And last but not least, we want to thank one of our new patrons, Jordan M. Jordan, welcome to the Hackerslash family. And that's our follow-up.

SPEAKER_02 5:21

While we're no strangers to the works of Clive Barker, after experiencing disappointment with previous film adaptations of his work, Barker opted to adapt and direct a film based on his horror novella, The Hellbound Heart, a novella which was inspired in part by his time working as a male prostitute in the 1970s. While the film was initially made for about a million dollars, it made 20 times as much in revenue and has been since considered one of the greatest British horror films ever made. The story follows a family divided as they move into a home where the previous occupant used a puzzle box to summon a group of sadomasochistic beings intent on sharing their sweet, painful pleasures. This week, in honor of his 35th release anniversary, we're talking about the 1987 film Hellraiser. Who's seen this one before?

SPEAKER_01 6:06

Oh, I have indeed. I've seen Hellraisers one through four, but particularly the first one here I've seen several times.

SPEAKER_04 6:12

I, of course, in classic fashion, had not seen Hellraiser, but I think I don't know. This one seems like everyone knows of it and everyone's kind of seen the characters from it. So of course I was familiar. I just never got around to it, I suppose.

SPEAKER_05 6:26

Ryan, I'm actually in the same boat as you. I'm familiar with this franchise, but I feel like I've only seen bits and pieces of each of the movies. So I'm like, was this in a movie? Nope, it's in a Hellraiser.

SPEAKER_03 6:40

I've mostly seen people dress up like this for Halloween. That's the thing for me.

SPEAKER_05 6:44

That's what you should do this year. You want something with a lot of makeup, there you go.

SPEAKER_04 6:48

I know, but it's just so, you know, done. I'm good. It's old, it's not relevant. Something better will come along.

SPEAKER_02 6:55

I've seen this movie before as a child, and I specifically remember loving this movie earlier in life, but it's not one that I've seen since the 90s. This is one where I remember a few specific quotes, but I don't know why I have them like burned and seared into my brain. Even when we had the pinhead uh Hellraiser chapter come into Dead by Daylight, I had these connections or these memories of watching Hellraiser, but for some reason the memory has grown fuzzier over time, and I can't remember why I specifically loved it. So walking into this one, I was expecting this to all start coming back to me again, kind of like Celine Dion. And I expected to quickly understand why I fell in love with it. I expected it to be compelling, I expected it to be really action-packed, and I expected some intense gore.

SPEAKER_05 7:46

That's what I was expecting too. Some amazing kills and was getting so excited about it when I first started watching the movie.

SPEAKER_04 7:54

You know, I what I wasn't expecting was uh family and a house. I like, I don't know. For some reason, Hellraiser in my mind has always been like a I don't I don't know a better way to say this, like a non-reality-based thing. Non-reality-based thing. Like I did not expect to feel like I was a part of, you know, someone's life story for a f a bit of time in this movie. And, you know, things happen, things go along, but I was, I don't know, I just thought it was gonna be chaos from like m the first moment of this and the whole way through.

SPEAKER_01 8:27

I mean, kind of not wrong though, but I have seen this so many times. Uh I I don't even like have account of it, but it it indeed was burned into my brain. And because of that, I kind of expected just another viewing of a movie that I've seen several times. I did not expect to be surprised by anything. I didn't expect to see anything new, because I could kind of remember it and the second movie just all too clearly. But going into this viewing, I think I was kind of caught off guard by like one thing that I just never really registered, and that's just that everything feels so gross. I mean, honestly, everyone as well, but it feels so raunchy, so dirty, it makes you feel filthy.

SPEAKER_02 9:10

Honestly, that could not have possibly been stated better, Mac. This movie is disgusting, and I remember the sensation watching this before we started recording, thinking, why was I watching this as a child? How did anyone let me watch this? It's not just the grossness of it, it's not just the dirty fingernails, but it's the sliminess of everything. It is the sexuality of it all. How did I watch this as a small child? I have no fucking idea. I am convinced that I must have watched this when I was unsupervised because I can think of no other explanation. Watching this movie felt like I hadn't seen it before, except for the moment that I heard some of these uh quotes that I remembered from being when I was a kid. And I think this might be the reason why I hate the word daddy.

SPEAKER_04 10:00

See, this does though feel like one of those movies that you would have maybe seen when you were like too young and you totally didn't get the themes, you didn't get the motivations, and you watched it as an adult and you're like, this is all based on sex and whatever, like all these things that you totally didn't get. And now you're like, all right, well, this is uh this is a new viewing. Not the first time seeing it, but the first time understanding it.

SPEAKER_02 10:21

Yeah, to be clear, I haven't seen this movie since the 90s, so I was at most nine years old the last time I saw this movie, and I'm fucking 32 now. And it's not that I've been like a stranger to like what it's supposed to be about, because you hear people talk about it. I, you know, this movie comes up a lot in terms of like people who are members of the horror community, but for some reason I'm like, oh yeah, yeah, the sex of the BDSM, uh, it's just like one in one ear, out the other. Never really sank into my mind that little baby Chris Rojas is watching this shit at the age of six. What the fuck, guys?

SPEAKER_05 10:53

I'm uh slightly disturbed, even though this might be something my uh abuela would have put on when I was younger. I was very surprised while watching this. And I was like, damn, this movie pops off and it pops off in the first four minutes. And movies typically that do that, they're just get boring towards the end. But this movie just had my attention throughout the entire watch. It was just if I wasn't paying attention to the gore, it was the characters and the interactions, and especially your homegirl Julia. I don't know what the fuck was wrong with her. I know we'll talk about it in the second half, but legit, this movie had me toss an intern in.

SPEAKER_04 11:36

I know this is an 80s movie, but I felt like I was watching a 90s movie. Like something about it just has the right vibe. It's it's like something about what the characters do, and also, you know, how it's shot, how the how the film itself looks, the styling. I don't know. Something about this felt super 90s and made me excited. And what absolutely surprised me the most is kind of the thing that I already mentioned. I did not expect to be in a family in a house. And there was like a moment where it's almost like, is this gonna be like um we just moved into a new haunted house? Like you know what I mean? There's a moment where it's like, is this gonna be Amityville? And it's not, but I was not even relatively expecting that.

SPEAKER_02 12:17

Yeah, classic dad moves in, moves the family in, and then you know, has hell to pay for it literally and figuratively. I think one of the biggest things that surprises me is if I said this is Clive Barker's directorial debut. He done some short films prior to this, but it blows my mind because clearly there's the darkness of this story, there's how twisted this is, and we get that thematically. And usually you can you can see and feel when someone writes something with a lot of soul, and then maybe a director just doesn't execute on it. But this feels like such a cohesive package, and it feels like a really complete project. I haven't seen the other movies in this franchise. I think it's you know similar to Alexis. Like I've probably seen bits and pieces of them on TV, but this is the one that I remember the most, and I clearly didn't remember it well enough to really understand how much there was to this.

SPEAKER_01 13:12

You know, there there is more to the story, and the funny part to me was that I kept injecting moments from the sequel specifically, and so I'm waiting for them to happen because it is related to the first film, and we never got them, and I was like, what what movie am I watching? Like, what am I why am I missing this stuff? And I realized, oh, I'm thinking of a whole nother movie that comes later. I was actually a little bit disappointed because I feel like we get very little of the Cenobites in this movie, and and that was that was a bummer, but again, I think it's because I was expecting a whole nother movie uh that has yet to come.

SPEAKER_05 13:46

Well, I will tell you, I was not expecting a whole another movie, but I was disappointed. I, you know, you don't get Pinhead, who's iconic for this movie. You don't you get a lot of the turmoil between the family, which I wasn't expecting, and I wish I would have seen more of that because I think them visually is quite entertaining.

SPEAKER_01 14:04

It does get better, I'll say, in the sequel, but it also gets far, far worse after that. I'm okay for that. Yeah, so basically, like the first two movies, good. The third movie, like you can watch it afterwards, like just stop watching. I mean, obviously, watch them all because we watch everything, but like at the same time, though, like get your expectations really low for anything. Honestly, the third and and beyond.

SPEAKER_04 14:26

So, speaking of the Centibytes, one thing that I was completely caught off guard about is the amount of special effects that we have in this movie. And like, I probably should have known because Pinhead is iconic, and I can see the intricate design of that character. And he's him, and I think I've seen the chatter before. Um, but otherwise, I I don't know. I would did not go into this, like, oh, we're gonna get some cool effects. Not at all, wasn't expecting it, and who what a good surprise we got.

SPEAKER_02 14:55

Yeah, that was a a really big pleasant surprise, but also it was disgusting. This is one of those movies that you know we think of the thing, or we think of an American werewolf in London. We think of effects that are at their best, but they're also really disgusting. And look at everything that Tom Savini has done. This one, though, is a frightening new level to disgusting. You can just sense and feel a lot of the goopiness that's in this movie and the moisture that's in this movie. There are wet fingers that are going into mouths in this movie. Absolutely disgusting. So while I'll say that this movie isn't frightening at all, it is damn near enough to trigger my gag reflex.

SPEAKER_01 15:41

That those are my exact sentiments. I literally, I think, have that written down in my notes here because I've never found this movie especially scary. I watched it as a teenager, not a nine-year-old. But even then, like I was able to stomach it and didn't have any issues with it. But it's gross. That's that's that's for damn sure. It like it's pretty gnarly to look at.

SPEAKER_05 16:00

I see where y'all are coming from. This movie is very humid, wet, and gross, which makes me gross even talking about it. I feel like if I were to watch this movie when I was younger, I probably would have been terrified and it would have been one of those movies that sticks with me. And I would be like, oh my gosh, we're watching this movie again, I'm gonna be terrified. But I hadn't. So I think the look of Pinhead and the Cenobites is is kind of disturbing, but I think at this point in my life, they're not doing much on screen, especially in this movie, to make me more frightful.

SPEAKER_04 16:34

Yeah, I can imagine if I was a kid and saw this, maybe I'd be afraid of Rubik's Cubes, you know, like that might get a little sketchy. But generally, I think this movie's gross and creepy in a way, but it's not scary. There's not a lot of like even in there's not a lot of moments where it even I think intends to be like jumping scary. And I I am interested like in the sequels, what do they do? Is there more action with the bad boys? I don't know. It's it's all very interesting.

SPEAKER_01 17:04

Oh, yeah. There's a lot of action and there's even more grossness.

SPEAKER_02 17:08

I don't know that I'm mentally prepared to see how disgusting a sequel is, but I will say that Hellraiser for having sex demons essentially, it's still super different from anything else I've ever seen. Now we've seen sex demons on this podcast, to be clear. We've done It Follows, we've done Jennifer's Body, we've had sex demons galore, but these sex demons, very different. It's also a new level of disgusting that I feel bad now for disliking a lot of the Saw movies as much as I do because this is still grosser than anything I've seen in that. Different kind of gross though.

SPEAKER_04 17:42

Yes. You know, this sounds like fun for a person like me who likes medical stuff.

SPEAKER_01 17:48

Well, I I'll just say that nobody does sex demons like Clive Barker. It's gonna get a hundred percent originality points for me.

SPEAKER_05 17:55

Obviously, this is original. I don't think I could say I've seen something like this before. Ever.

SPEAKER_01 18:02

I think I've seen scenes from Saw that are very similar to scenes from other Hellraiser movies for sure. Oh, so you think they're uh I just think they're inspired because there's a lot of flesh ripping going on in the Hellraiser, you know, universe. There's a lot of like with chains. Yeah, chains tearing people apart. Oh yeah. Oh yeah, there's definitely in that. It has inspired some greatness, I think.

SPEAKER_05 18:24

I could totally see it, especially that specifically.

SPEAKER_04 18:26

Yeah, I think it feels original. Again, there is a moment where you're like, are we doing a haunted house thing? And we're not, but you know, it generally original for sure.

SPEAKER_01 18:38

I've talked about the the sequels a lot, I think, but that kind of caused some trouble for me because I was expecting to dive right into the plot of Hellraiser 2. So when I got to the end of this movie, I felt like it was cut short because I kept thinking it was gonna continue. Now I realized it was 90 minutes or 95 minutes, so there was plenty of screen time and there was a lot that was shown when I think about like everything that happened in the story, like they fit in a good bit. Um, but I was just kind of let down at the end because I'm expecting the next movie because maybe normally I would have just kept watching like the sequence of movies. Maybe that's what it is.

SPEAKER_05 19:11

I see where you're coming from. Um, my boyfriend came up with a word I this might be out there. It's called front loading. When you drink a big bunch in the beginning, so like especially at an event like a wedding, you're fine towards the end and you won't be as hungover tomorrow. But either way, I felt like this movie was front loaded a lot, and I felt like the end was so quick that I wish they explored a little bit more of the dynamics between the antagonist and protagonists a little bit more.

SPEAKER_04 19:40

I want to acknowledge that your boyfriend is a genius, but did not come up with a phrase front loading.

SPEAKER_05 19:46

Okay, it's already out there. Yep, it's out there. Damn. Poor guy. I'm gonna still let him think that though.

SPEAKER_04 19:51

So I don't disagree about the front loading, but I would say I actually feel like this movie needed that, and it it stood up when we got to the end. So I enjoyed the ending, and I I don't I don't think I have much to hate on about it.

SPEAKER_02 20:05

I'm actually completely satisfied by the ending. I feel like it resolves things in a way that creates a platform for future interest in a franchise without feeling like it's sequel baiting, without feeling like it's just setting yourself up for a cash grab. I felt resolution, I felt maybe impending danger and doom. I felt like it could keep going on. And I think this movie does one of the things that I love in that it ends in a similar way it begins, which implies like a level of like a cyclical nature, but we'll see how our feelings thus far shake out into our scores. Now, before we rate this movie, Alexis, what's the gore score for this movie?

SPEAKER_05 20:46

Y'all, I'm happy to say it's it's high and it it feels good after having some medium and low the past few weeks. So excited about it.

SPEAKER_04 20:54

And what about the animal report? Yeah, the animal report, not so good this week.

SPEAKER_02 20:58

Little rough. Not the worst, but a little rough. Well, let's go ahead and get into our ratings then. Hellraiser from 1987. Was it a hacker or a slash?

SPEAKER_01 21:07

I'm gonna start because Hellraiser is a movie that I watched a bunch as a teen. Thanks mostly to the fact that the sci-fi channel played it like I feel like monthly, and all of the sequels as well. But it's dark, it's disturbing, it's pretty damn gross. Their practical effects are like 90% cool and maybe 10% dated at this point, but overall lead to a very just tactile experience. You just feel like you can touch everything. Pinhead and the Cenobites are still enjoyable in the first two installments, and I think this is one of the only gory horror films that I actually enjoy, so it's totally killer. It's a slash.

SPEAKER_05 21:40

Mac, I appreciate that because I feel like I get some hate. Not maybe not hate. I feel like I get some disagreement when it's really gory. So But it's okay. Um maybe we can meet in the middle on this. The visuals in this movie, whether people might find them dated or not, I don't know. There's just some scenes, certain shots that are just built up. They're zoom out, zoom in. And I think that's what really makes this movie so artistic and not just okay, it's it's about the gore. It's about you know the dynamic between you know these family members. I also appreciate a movie, and I can't recall seeing this a lot in movies I've watched, but multiple antagonists. So you're like, okay, but I found out at a point I was saying which one's the worst. And you know, I I can appreciate a movie that's making me hate everyone almost except for one person. And I really appreciate this small defined set that they have. It's it's filmed essentially in one or two places, and I like the creativity that you can get from that, the practical effects, the special effects. It's enough to make me squirm in my seat, yet find this movie so enjoyable. So it's definitely getting a slash from me.

SPEAKER_04 22:56

So the thing that makes this movie stand out for me, and I don't know that I've ever said this before, but this is like a sexy horror movie. Like it's attractive. Obviously, it's gross. Okay, I'm not obviously it's gross. There's a lot of gross stuff, the effects are insane, but it's like the storyline is very sex-based, but not like, hey, watch us have sex on camera, but like the themes and the motivations and stuff, and I thought that was really interesting. And then when, you know, the the monsters come in and their motivations are also sexual, and I don't know. It's just interesting, it's an interesting take, different angle, and I enjoyed it a lot. I enjoyed looking at it, I enjoyed the rise and fall of several characters. So I don't know, this one was a surprise for me. I wasn't expecting a lot of things that came out of this, mostly the effects. There was only one monster here that really did not do it for me, but everything else is so beautiful. And, you know, I was just in there geeking out a little bit, enjoying a lot of it. So it's definitely a slash. Hellraiser is more than what I expected it to be, but maybe everything that everyone always told me it would be.

SPEAKER_01 24:08

I can't wait to see if in the future you dive further into the Hellraiser universe because your thoughts about how it feels are totally deliberate and on purpose. And as you find out more, uh it's oh man, I just can't wait. I hope I hope you get to that point where you're like, aha, now I see why it's so sexual.

SPEAKER_04 24:25

We have so many movies during this like grind time that I'm kind of just like watching a lot of movies right now. So maybe I'll just throw in a little Hellraiser too.

SPEAKER_01 24:33

Mm-lusty.

SPEAKER_02 24:34

I expected so much familiarity when I put this movie on. I was considering these memories that I have distinctly of Pinhead and his face, distinctly thinking about the quotes, oh no tears, please. It's a waste of good suffering. We have such sights to show you. I remember the vendor that's in this movie saying, What's your pleasure, sir? There were these little snapshots that stick out to me, and it it shaped my memory of this movie to be one thing for the past 30 plus years, and yet watching it this time, it was like watching it for the first time ever. This movie is disgusting, but it's well performed, it's captivating, but also horrific. This movie made me squirm, and I absolutely hated so many people in this movie, and I say that and it's not like there's 15 people in this movie to hate, but when you divide the cast and look at the ratio of hateability to likability, honestly, it's staggering in a way that you wouldn't expect. This movie sets the stage for a strong franchise, and I've never seen the movies that come after this. Mac, it's good to know that I should really lower the expectations for Hellraiser 3 and beyond. I think what this movie does best is pique my interest to see what the reboot is like, which I hear is going to be truer to the actual novella that Clive Parker wrote. So this movie is a slash, undoubtedly. It's one that's disgusting, so maybe don't watch it while you're eating food. But for now, Hellraiser has earned a universal slash. Now you can find this movie streaming on AMC Plus, so check it out. Then join us in the second half so we can crack open this puzzle box together. We'll see you in a bit.

SPEAKER_00 26:23

Hey consenting adults, do you want to play a game full of mortal pleasures that is hell to some and heaven to others? Then open your box with it, pop it, stroke it, have it, own it, take it, twist it, stab it, rip it, like it, clap it, rub it, plow it, squeeze it, probe it, probe it, domin, sub it, edge it, punch it, suck it, and consensually and lovingly. Killer dude high score. It commands you must obey, safer not clean, welcome back, folks.

SPEAKER_02 27:16

You're now entering the spoiler zone for Hellraiser, which has earned a Universal Slash. We have a lot to unpack here, but before we get into the specifics of our ratings, Alexis, take us through the kills.

SPEAKER_05 27:25

Y'all, this is like artistic gore. It's like top-notch. I mean, that it's not, you know, ruining the movie for y'all to give it a hack. So I feel good about this. But man, we got seven deaths in this movie. One of which a guy dies twice, which I'm a big fan of that. Total big fan of some guy dying twice for no reason. There was reason and he deserved it. Oh, yeah, there are plenty of reasons. I was joking. I was like, he deserves the most. Actually, him and Julia. This movie, though, the gore, I know we talked about in the first half, goes past blood. I mean, I'm thinking about when they're going into the house and there's these cockroaches and maggots, and then Julia's looking at Frank's dirty photos and stuff, and I'm like, she's still attracted to this man. She's fucking also gross.

SPEAKER_01 28:16

Yeah, it's okay that he literally cheated with her on her wedding dress before she got married. Wow. What a sleaze.

SPEAKER_04 28:25

First off, that wedding dress would be so gross. I mean, maybe it's not that gross, but still just like the thought like having sex on a garment of clothing is repulsive.

SPEAKER_01 28:34

I think the sweatiness of everything really adds to the gore.

SPEAKER_05 28:37

Yeah. And you can tell this like addict too. I mean, it's got even before for you know Frank becomes reembodied, if that's what we want to call it.

SPEAKER_02 28:46

I'm convinced that the moisture level in this movie is why moisture wicking clothing was invented. This is disgusting.

SPEAKER_05 28:53

Of course. And then you got the rats, you know, nailed to the wall. I mean, this even the house just in general, before all this happens, is like dry, maybe not as moist. It's a little dry in the beginning and dusty. And I'm like, why are you moving them in?

SPEAKER_01 29:09

It really felt moldy and mildewy.

SPEAKER_05 29:11

It did. It did. But I want to know because we have a few dusts, and all of them have to me some significance, whether that be they're super gory, they have some meaning. I'd love to know what y'all's favorites are.

SPEAKER_01 29:24

I think I'm gonna go with one of the one of the victims that Julia brings home, and specifically they're they're all on the specifically the one that gets hit in the face with the hammer and the jaw like pops loose, uh, or there's like a smash to it, and you kind of see in the and the person looks, that guy just like looks at them, and so you can clearly see his face, like half of it hanging down the wrong way. Loved that code because the ones that just kind of get hit in the back of the head and then drained or whatever, like those are so great, but to see the the facial trauma and then he's like still going, that's rough.

SPEAKER_05 29:56

Oh yeah, those teeth. I was like, uh what was more depressing about that was he was just in his uh tidy whiteys while this was happening. I was like, this is even better because the man's just a sleaze bag too, so is she, but they're just he's just standing there in his underwear and all bloody.

SPEAKER_04 30:15

I do think men just wore those style underwear at this time in the world, which feels weird. And like, you know, these are like some maybe less than attractive businessmen, right? And they're wearing like tidy weddies and like, okay, cool, whatever. But like, what were the hot guys wearing during this time? Were they also wearing these and was it working? Because it it doesn't feel like it was working.

SPEAKER_02 30:39

So my favorite death is gonna have to be Frank the second time. Not because I'm so attached to the visual of his death, but rather just, you know, burn in hell, Frank. Go away. You don't need to exist anymore. I simply am pleased by the idea of you not being around because you're disgusting and vile, and you're a mean one, Mr. Grinch. I was happy to see him go.

SPEAKER_04 31:06

So while I completely agree, Frank was dirty, okay? He needed to go. The chains I think were so cool, and I love the the way that I think they were done to make it look like they were like shooting out. I love that. But I'm gonna have to go with Julia because I absolutely was not expecting him to kill her in that moment. I was expecting her to die. I knew he was moving on, he was not interested. He was clearly using her just to get back to life. But I thought it was insane when he goes lunges at her, she gets the full knife, and then immediately he's already draining her and like sucking the life out of her, which is maybe not what you would expect if you thought he was an okay person at all.

SPEAKER_02 31:46

Really, he was sucking the life out of her the entire time though, looking at how conflicted she was as a person. He sucked the joy right out of the marriage.

SPEAKER_04 31:54

To be fair, that marriage was quite joyless already, I'd say. Um, but he definitely had some effects.

SPEAKER_02 32:01

We don't know what it was like in the week before he showed up on her doorstep and convinced her to bone in a day. I don't know. She was willing, so she probably wasn't that happy.

SPEAKER_01 32:11

He just wooed her like one of her men in her romance novels, you know? Shows up in the rain.

SPEAKER_05 32:16

Uh, there you go. That's exactly how it happens.

SPEAKER_01 32:19

So not only did she cheat on her soon-to-be husband, Larry, she did it with his brother, Frank. I think that's the most disturbing part, is she went for the the the brother cheat. You know, not a stranger, not some person she met at a bar like the other victims that she brought home, but like a relative of the person she was wedding.

SPEAKER_05 32:39

What's interesting to me though is this freaking movie has so much going on in it. Yet Clive Barker had to make some cuts actually to this film after the MPAA gave it an X rating. It's funny when I was taking notes during this movie, like obviously Frank's first death had a lot of impact because you can see his guts hanging around, or what you can inference that is his guts and you know all the face they're trying to put together, the face, and I was like, this movie's giving me so much joy right now. But what gave me the most was when like Larry runs his hand into the nail, and I know that's so small of a detail compared to the grand scheme of the gore in this, but there was so much buildup on that. And when you go and then he's like goes all the way upstairs, and it's just so bloody.

SPEAKER_04 33:28

Also, most importantly, they were moaning and grunting simultaneously, back-to-back scenes of her reminiscing on the sex scene and them grunting to get a mattress up the stairs, which was cinematic beauty.

SPEAKER_02 33:43

Sorry to disrupt the cinematic beauty that is that moment. Let me introduce you to the cinematic fuckery that is him going upstairs into the attic with his bloody ass hand, holding it out to her like a little baby, and her being so dismissive, but also saying, Is it deep? Motherfucker, what? You see all that blood? You think it's not deep?

SPEAKER_04 34:02

She was close. Okay, she was not worried about that cut.

SPEAKER_01 34:06

It it was legitimately, I think, spurting onto the floor, though.

SPEAKER_05 34:10

It really was. So that shot of Larry's blood actually seeping unnaturally through the floor was really just a simple shot of red fluid being pumped through rigged nail holes in the floorboard, which I thought was neat. I was like, oh my gosh, these cool effects, I think, are what make the gore and what make the movie because Chris, I would agree with you, Frank's second kill would also be my favorite. Just that pulling of the flesh. To me, CGI looks so fake nowadays, and people rely on it so much that I love the simplicity of that, and it still looks somewhat real to me. I'm not like, oh, that's so fake, I'm laughing. But I I the special effects just make I think the gore in this movie just stand out.

SPEAKER_04 34:55

The effects definitely are one of the most incredible parts of this movie. If you don't love everything else, even if it's like disgusting to you, you still have to appreciate it. And I just have a few interesting things. Some of the most used materials during the special effects process of this movie are condoms and lube, which feels very appropriate. And at one point they went beyond lube to like uh basically medical grade lube, and it just kept everybody wet all the time. What you guys were hating is exactly what they were going for. They just wanted it all juicy and disgusting, and it was. And they did the same with lube and the floorboard pumping stuff up, uh, pumping the lube up just like the blood. So that's interesting stuff. And the detail that I think many of us hate in the ending is like that neon like electricity thing. So evidently they were literally out of money and couldn't come up with any way to do special effects there. So they got drunk over a weekend and hand animated everything, and they uh were surprised that it got done because of how drunk they were, which is remarkable, really.

SPEAKER_01 36:00

It's it's so disturbing to me that they didn't realize that they already had a perfect transition to get to get the Cenobites out of there, which was earlier on in the scene where they show up in the attic and they just like step through a shadow. Just do that in reverse, dude. Like have them step into a shadow and then poof they're gone. That would look so much cleaner than having like tron the first movie effects going on to get rid of them.

SPEAKER_04 36:26

Yeah, I I think I get it. I think they even didn't have money to shoot. That's the thing. They didn't even have money to have the people on set, it seems like. But speaking of reverse, the birthing scene, which is what they call the scene where Frank comes back initially, is mostly shot with reverse photography and a lot of basically things that were made out of out of wax and then they melt them. And I think that was pretty apparent to me. I am kind of at the place in life where I sit and wonder how they did things all the time and try to figure it out while I'm watching the movie. But I think it was pretty cool and honestly, extremely effective. It looked like he was coming to life in the worst way.

SPEAKER_05 37:00

Yeah, that is my favorite visual of this movie. I mean, just the birthing, I call it reanimation, whichever we want to call it. It's so fucking gross, but man, it's so good. And Ryan, I really like when he's got the muscle layer on him. That's my favorite, is because I look at that and I was like, that's so terrifying if I saw that just every day. And she's like thinking about having sex with them. I'm like, this is nuts. But the way they did that and crafted it without it not looking so cheesy, it was phenomenal.

SPEAKER_04 37:34

Imagine that's literally you with just your skin gone. You're that's what you have. You walk around like that every day, you just don't even know it.

SPEAKER_02 37:42

Absolutely disgusting. It reminds me of Wes Craven's New Nightmare and the way like Freddy's design looks throughout that movie. His is like a visual sculpture of that while being much less wet. So it's like a weird juxtaposition. My favorite visual in this movie is none of the goo, none of the moisture, none of the ooey-gooey shit. It's the house itself and how different it looks just from moment to moment. Obviously, you walk into this into this house in the first place and it's dingy, it's disgusting. I was gagging a little bit. She drops her purse. Ma'am, don't drop your purse on this dusty, dingy, dirty bed. You don't know what's been there. But to see it transform from utter disgusting chaos to a semi-livable home, but then we have like almost like these uh taped up windows and the way that's letting light into the attic, it's disturbing, it's haunting, it's not Amineyville, Ryan. I know you were talking about like, okay, we're gonna get a haunted house kind of moment here, but the house was almost a character playing along in the background of this movie, which I appreciated.

SPEAKER_01 38:51

I think the thing I really appreciate about this was something that maybe is too easy, but it's it's the makeup and the costumes. And some parts of the costumes are kind of ridiculous when you start looking at them. They kind of look like somebody went to a sex store a little bit, but it's on purpose. But the makeup, I mean, pinhead is so iconic, and uh you can really tell that they put some thought into making each of the cinobites distinct, and that absolutely continues on in further installments. But I just love that we get these identities for each of the Cenobites that like we have a full backstory to each of them that we can get into later, of course, as you keep going into the series. But like if you didn't know anything that happens in the future and you didn't look up who's called what, you just saw them on screen, you would probably come up with like a nickname for each one of them that's probably pretty close to the actual nickname for each one of them because they're just like each one of them their own little avatar of whatever they're targeting, and I I adore that.

SPEAKER_04 39:55

So a little interesting tidbit, when they were designing the characters, there's like a just couple descriptions of who they want them to be, and one of the phrases that was used is repulsive glamour, and I feel like that fits them perfectly because they are like kind of glamorous, but in a repulsive way, and that's exactly what it is.

SPEAKER_01 40:14

So you're telling me that like Pinhead pretty much works at Sephora, but in hell.

SPEAKER_04 40:19

I do have a favorite visual that's very different from what you guys have discussed, but first I do want to say I have one least favorite visual, and it is the monster, which is kind of unnamed, but they call him the engineer, and he's like seen when Kirsty is like walking down the hallway, like in the hospital, and he's kind of like I don't know, running along the walls, kind of not really touching the ground with like the he's like the little scorpion-looking dude, and he did not do it for me. I felt like I could see the guy running behind him, pushing him on a cart, you know, and it said like it was really hard to maneuver that character and everything. And he was the least successful visual in this movie for me. I just felt like I was looking at like a puppet, I guess.

SPEAKER_05 41:02

Was that at the final scene too? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 41:06

Girl, that was my favorite. He was better at the end than he was in the hallway, but like it just didn't, I don't know, it just didn't feel real enough. You know what was successful all the way through though? Julia. That's my favorite visual element. That girl, when she's hunting, okay, and she is in her freaking first off, ugly heels, okay? The pumps are horrible. But the pencil skirt and like a little button up top, and she's got the the lace underneath, she's got the elvis hair, the sunglasses. She was on the prowl and it it was doing things for me, okay. I loved it. I was like, okay, ma'am, show us what you got.

SPEAKER_02 41:44

Okay, look, if we're going in this direction, I'll admit that I was stretching things with a house because my actual favorite visual in this movie is Kirsty. I know I have a rule about not dating Kristins or Christie's or Chris's, but I'd absolutely date the shit out of Kirsty Cotton.

SPEAKER_04 42:00

Okay, Kirsty was obviously cute, but there was like a very specific, like hunting look that Julia had, and I loved it. It I felt so again, it felt so 90s. I know it's 80s, but it felt so 90s. I guess a little 80s too. I don't know. I loved it though.

SPEAKER_05 42:16

That hair was horrifically great. Ryan, it's sad because yes, I call it the um double-ended dildo. That's what that thing looked like. My favorite scene is every time they show up. Whether it was in the hospital chasing her down the hall, whether it was at the end, specifically not because of the look, but because of the comedy it adds. So to me, although it wasn't the worst part, it just added a slight bit of comedic value to all this dread and all this hate and all this just like awfulness that's happening in this movie. That I was like, I appreciate that. It looks kind of funny. You can tell after a moment it's been low budget for this movie because this thing is ridiculous looking. Don't even know what it's supposed to represent, what it would have been, what it was, I have no clue. But it definitely, any scene that that object was in, the engineer, I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 43:13

Speaking of the monsters in this movie, my favorite scene is when the Cenobites show up, specifically in the attic to get Frank, and Frank's wearing a Larry face, and they like walk through the shadow, and like at this point it's clear that obviously he's gonna die now because he's been trying to evade them. He escaped him once, but it ain't gonna happen again. And I just love that they show up and they're so cool about it. Like they're not stressing, they're not like sweating, they're not running after him. They don't have to. They get to take their time and and say cool lines and be really smart. And I I just love that about them that they're not silent, first of all. That's great, except for some of the background characters, but I I think it's really cool when they're smart, when they're intelligent antagonists. Because that's scarier, and I know that's what the that's what Clive Barker wanted was an intelligent antagonist. Because you know, think about Hannibal Lecter coming to eat you. That would not be scary if Hannibal Lecter was quiet and never said anything. It's scary for Michael Myers, and that works for Michael Myers, but it works better when this like devil thing gets to show up and like say a badass line to you and then rip your your rip your body apart.

SPEAKER_04 44:25

Yeah, they were so glamorous in their approach to hunting and killing. And another bit, uh, they were all supposed to have lines, but the but two of them, the makeup was so intense, the chatter and the butterball were the makeup was so heavy that they couldn't speak, so they just passed the lines off to the other two. But they're definitely an amazing part. I mean, their presence is I would say their presence is what makes this movie particularly original for me, I think. It's there's a lot of other stuff that I think I could have seen before in other realms, but I've never seen a group of people like this trying to kill a man that's really into BDSM. I don't, it's a lot of things coming together all at once, really.

SPEAKER_02 45:09

Well, I think the interesting reason for that is because the whole thing is designed as if they are the prison guards and he is an escape prisoner, and it's like they have to like bring him back to hell.

SPEAKER_04 45:20

Yeah, I do love that. I have to say though, I have a different favorite scene, and again, it relates to Julia, and it is when she is going through his pictures, so we get this little peek into Frank where we see that he does these dirty things with dirty girls, basically is like tying people up, yada yada. And it's you kind of don't know what's going on at that point. And then once she starts to have the flashback, and we learn that she is kind of wrapped up in his web, and she's like at the end of the scene begging, I'll do anything for you. And I just love that twist because again, I was really stuck in like a are we at a haunted house thing? And that's what took it out of that and gave this story more and more layers that made me interested in their stories, interested in what they were doing, interested in this marriage, interested in Frank, all of it. It was it was a very pivotal point for me for this movie because I was like, eh, am I gonna care about this until that moment?

SPEAKER_02 46:13

You see, Ryan, I'm I'm glad that you found the investment there. And you look at how the dynamic between Julia and Frank plays out. My favorite scene though is actually when I think they're at their worst and they're kind of like the peak evil. And Julia, you see this moment uh where she still cares for Larry, so she doesn't want him to be harmed. She tries to keep him away from the attic, she tries to protect him. But my favorite scene is when we're on the completely opposite side of that, and Larry's gone, and Frank has assumed Larry's skin, and Kirsty comes into the home, and they're telling her that it's all over. Frank, as Larry, is saying he put Frank down, it's all done. He was like a mad dog, etc., etc. But Kirst is so like, what do you mean it's over? Like she's asking clarifying questions, which I absolutely love. It's like it shows her wit and shows that like this is a weird fucking situation, and I refuse to believe it's it's over that easily. I've refused to believe that this has resolved itself while I've been away from the home for just a little while. And I think that this moment where we see Frank really become his worst when she realizes and catches on to him, and then we get these moments that ultimately lead to Julia's death. But for me, the moment where they become the actual real villains, and we finally get the antithesis of good. Frank is terrible, he's up to shady shit the entire movie. Obviously, people have died in the movie up until now, but I feel like Larry's death and up to the pursuit of Kirsty and them trying to harm her, that was the moment that really cemented it as okay, the Cenobites are just kind of in the background at this point. They're not necessarily evil, they're just uh gracie sex demons, you know, they're just back for their property. They're reasonable people, they've made a bargain, they've struck a deal. But when we get to see Julia and Frank shine in their evil, I absolutely loved it. And I think it's that kind of compelling drama that made me like this film as an adult.

SPEAKER_05 48:17

Totally. And I referenced that when we were talking about our scoring, but it was the duality of having like you think the Cenobites would be the antagonist, but truly it is Julia and Frank. Julia though reminds me of Delia Dietz completely from Beetlejuice. Like, I hated Julia Dietz when I was a kid. I was like, she's the worst person, and Julia is just like her.

SPEAKER_01 48:43

I don't think that Julia though is worse than Frank because what so I mean, so Frank has uh searched the earth for all the pleasures he can enjoy because he's just into pure hedonism at this point. And he when he talks about like what the Cynobites put him through, he uh seems like he enjoyed it a little bit, right? Like he got really into the idea of this mixture of of pain and pleasure and like sort of going to the limits of like what's possible to experience. Uh-huh. And so that's that's what I think puts him like next level. He's not just like doing this for somebody else like she is, she's doing this out of her her lust for him. He's doing this because of him. He's doing this because he wants to experience everything that can be experienced. He doesn't care about anyone else, and then that's evidenced by the fact that he's willing and does kill he kills his own brother, and he's like interested in his own niece, and that's gross. And then he wants to kill her, of course, as well. So, like, the dude just doesn't care about any sense of morality and just wants to get off.

SPEAKER_04 49:45

Yeah, he does suck a lot. And you bring up something that has made me think about this movie in the fact that we don't consider how his coming back to life is possible at all. We haven't considered how, like, we understand, I guess, that they killed Frank, the Cenobites killed Frank, but at no point have any of us said, Well, I don't understand how he comes back to life or like why or how he's able to do it, doesn't matter. And I love that about this movie because a lot of times we get kind of stuck in like, but it doesn't make sense how it works because a movie takes us partially there. But this one doesn't, it's just like there's some blood, and somehow it makes him come back to life, and we're totally cool with it. So I like that about this movie. I don't think any of these characters are enjoyable, except maybe Kirsty, but also I don't care about what's going on between Kirsty and Larry. I don't, I did not care at all. The phone call that they had, none of it mattered, the dinner and everything. I think all these people just kind of suck, and uh, it's okay that they died. That's just how it is. Frank just needed to die the worst.

SPEAKER_01 50:47

I don't know if Larry deserved to die, did he? Did he do anything that was worthy of death?

SPEAKER_04 50:52

I don't know. He was just like kind of annoying.

SPEAKER_02 50:54

I think Larry was just perfectly mediocre. He is someone who's who sees himself as taking care of his daughter, but you see that she has like this thirst for independence. She wants to be able to get a job and stand on her own two feet. She doesn't want to live in the house, she wants to have an identity outside of that. But I actually admire the bits of the relationship that we see between them. I don't get any weird subtext between the two of them. I know that some people do when they watch this film, but I saw him as just kind of like um a necessary bore to kind of move the move the plot along. Because I think if they might they made him too unlikable, then we'd be on Julia and Frank's side in some ways. Where whereas Larry was just vanilla, not a great guy, not a terrible guy.

SPEAKER_04 51:39

He's truly just mediocre and just trying his best with his daughter. And let me tell you, it ain't easy, okay? Dads and daughters is a hard thing, and it's not weird just because there was uh they kissed each other because they didn't kiss each other sexually. There's no need for that. I will say, the actor that played Larry, him playing like vanilla Larry, and then him playing Frank is inside of me Larry was so good and such a big difference just in like his facial expressions, the way he presented himself as soon as he walked in the room and everything, it was a big change, and that was awesome.

SPEAKER_02 52:12

I think one of the other things I love though, you know, in consideration of Larry's performance and in the change of Larry between him being Larry and being Frank inside of Larry was the Cenobites as a whole. There is so much restraint in every fiber of their performance, and to see that level of control, and granted, you know, think about like the weight or the impact of the makeup that they that they have on. Obviously, Ryan, you shared that sometimes the makeup was so intense they couldn't even speak. But pinhead in particular is someone who is chilling because of the control that he has over seemingly every muscle in his body. It seems like no move within them is unintentional. And even when they're standing still, but you see the the pain that they must be in as, you know, suspension of disbelief as these characters to see how much they must be like writhing in pain, but then are just perfectly in control of the moment really stood out to me in a way that like I'd be interested in seeing more centipes as we go further into the franchise.

SPEAKER_04 53:17

You know what else stood out to me, unfortunately, as the worst part of this movie? It's the version of Frank that is like a skeleton from Spirit Halloween. It's like I think his first version that like speaks, and I just did not like it. As much as I like the effects in this movie and generally everything that was happening to Frank, that part was really a moment where I could have been taken out, and and I was just fortunate enough to stay paying attention and enjoying the movie because everything else was so good, but I did not like that set of effects.

SPEAKER_05 53:47

Yeah, the worst part for me is gonna be the lightning special effects, special effects. Glow in the Dark, I don't really know how to describe it, but it just seemed kind of off-putting. But I don't think that there was anything really bad about this movie. So I mean, even that's not really something I'm harping on.

SPEAKER_01 54:06

It is it is hard to find something negative about it. I think aside from how gross it is, which is also how it's so great, though, uh I would kind of nitpick some of the acting I felt was a bit, a bit hammy. I think we got a little bit of overacting, especially from your girl Julia, Ryan. I I don't know, there were some scenes there where I was just like, okay, calm down, D.Va. Like there's just too much going on.

SPEAKER_04 54:27

Oh, I agree. I I didn't say she was a great actor. I didn't say I loved her. I just liked the way she looked when she was hunting.

SPEAKER_01 54:34

And I think we were at danger of like the movers playing it a little too strong as well. I mean, they're they're supposed to be kind of silly, and had they gone a little bit further, it would have been too campy for the films. Thankfully, that was a bit restrained as well.

SPEAKER_02 54:48

Okay, I get overacting, sure. For me, the worst part is absolutely the wetness of this movie. Again, moisture levels, grossness, but like you said, Mac, it's one of the also the reasons why it's so great. I think the quality of the effects are fantastic, but for me, the true worst part, the absolute grossness of this movie, is what you referred to earlier, uh, where Frank comes on to Kirsty and he's talking about, come here, damn it, I just want to touch you, uh, come to daddy, etc. etc. Absolutely disgusting, didn't add a whole lot of value because he was already so disgusting. I don't feel like I gained more hate for him. Like I I yes, absolutely I did, but I don't think the movie would have been hurt by not having that in.

SPEAKER_04 55:33

I'm impressed that nervous system version of Frank putting his fingers into Julia's mouth, actually, her guiding them into her mouth is not the worst part for you.

SPEAKER_02 55:43

Well, I mentioned earlier that we had wet fingers and mouths. That was disgusting. I was trying not to be too redundant. Not just wet though. The man had no skin. Just nervous systems. It's disgusting. Honestly, regular fingers inside of mouths can be kind of gross to me, depending on the person. So absolutely it is disgusting, Ryan.

SPEAKER_04 56:00

Yeah, I don't like fingers and mouths, but I would actually not mind watching this movie again.

SPEAKER_05 56:05

Oh yeah, I'm definitely gonna watch this again and probably watch its sequels very soon. Yeah, I'm feeling it.

SPEAKER_01 56:12

I I've watched it before. I may watch it again, but I'm actually really looking forward to the reboot and kind of seeing what it brings to the table.

SPEAKER_02 56:19

I can clearly see why I haven't watched this movie since I was nine years old. Uh so I feel like I've seen it now at the perfect time in preparation for the reboot coming out. I think I'm good on watching it anytime soon after that. But let's see what Matt can pack in knowledge-wise with his fact or fiction.

SPEAKER_01 56:35

Number one, Doug Bradley, aka pinhead, almost took the role of one of the movers because he was new to film and thought it would be better for people to see his face.

SPEAKER_03 56:43

Oh, it seems interesting. Fact fiction, but I think I might know a secret.

SPEAKER_01 56:47

This one's a fact. When he showed up to the premiere, he almost didn't get in because people didn't recognize him without his makeup. So maybe he was right.

SPEAKER_04 56:54

I'd say so.

SPEAKER_01 56:55

Number two, new from the stage to feature films, Doug was so anxious about his performance he had trouble hitting his marks and had to take Xanax in filming to calm down enough to continue.

SPEAKER_05 57:05

Hmm. Also plausible. So fact. I'll go fiction again.

SPEAKER_01 57:09

Correct, this one's a fiction. But he did have trouble with the blackout lenses and makeup while trying not to trip over his skirts.

SPEAKER_05 57:15

What a problem.

SPEAKER_01 57:16

I mean, we all have it every now and then. Number three, Lance Henrickson, who played the dad in Pumpkin Head, turned down the role of Frank because he's deeply religious and felt the movie was too irreverent to risk doing.

SPEAKER_05 57:27

I feel like I've seen that guy in less religious stuff. But I don't know, this is really extreme. Fact.

SPEAKER_04 57:32

Yeah, I'm gonna go fiction because while this movie is like, you know, hell-related, it's not like, I don't know, it's a different take.

SPEAKER_01 57:41

This one's a fiction. But he thought there would be sequels when he was offered the role, and he wasn't down for the whole Marvel Cinematic Universe treatment, if you will.

SPEAKER_04 57:48

Smart man.

SPEAKER_01 57:48

And number four, Claire Higgins, who plays Julia, has never seen all of Hellraiser, as she's not really a horror fan, and only lasted 10 minutes during the premiere before being way too creeped out.

SPEAKER_05 57:57

I mean, I know she was vain in the movie, but hopefully she isn't in real life, so fiction.

SPEAKER_03 58:03

I will be so appalled, but I'm gonna go fact.

SPEAKER_01 58:06

Yeah, this one's a fact.

SPEAKER_03 58:07

Oh, how dare you? Oh, I suck tonight.

SPEAKER_01 58:09

Look, some people just can't handle the genre, and that's okay.

SPEAKER_02 58:12

She's in the movie.

SPEAKER_01 58:13

And this has been Factor Fiction.

SPEAKER_02 58:14

Well, there you have it, folks. Hellraiser from 1987 has earned a universal slash. Now we've certainly had a lot to talk about here, but it doesn't end here by any means. We still want to know what you think. Were you also grossed out by how wet this movie was? Let us know. You can join in on the conversation by hanging out with us for free over in our Discord. Click the link in our show notes to sign up and participate in the spooky preseason.

SPEAKER_01 58:36

If you've enjoyed listening to this episode, consider becoming one of our patrons. Visit patreon.com slash hacker slash to enjoy more of the show with early access, extended episodes, bonus content, and live shows.

SPEAKER_02 58:47

We'll see you next time, folks, and remember some things have to be endured. Bye.