233: The Loved Ones (2009)

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Honestly, a scene from Punisher Warzone as well where he goes to punch someone and their whole face caves in like jam.

SPEAKER_02 0:10

Bam, bitch went jam. Greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hacker Slash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. You're a fucking rock star. If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack, a total joke, waste of time, or a slash.

SPEAKER_00 0:33

Totally killer. Unintended.

SPEAKER_02 0:35

We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, we're ranking these movies with the perspective we've gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast, and this week I'm joined by the Superfly Space Guy Mac. Bring the hammer, daddy, and the gore lover Alexis. We can't hear you. The people have spoken and our patrons have decided which movie we're recovering this week. Before we head down to business, though, we have some follow-up.

SPEAKER_00 1:01

Let's follow up on a movie. We recently reviewed the movie The Skeleton Key, and we wanted to know what you thought. Well, it turns out 33% of our listeners gave it a hack and 67 gave it a slash.

SPEAKER_02 1:13

Good. It deserves that. Overwhelmingly positive. I thought in the listener vote, this would pan out to be slightly more mediocre.

SPEAKER_00 1:21

I'm I I'll say I'm not surprised. I feel like two-thirds is not a bad place to be for a movie that we thought was pretty good. I feel like that's a pretty good score. Um, I know some people aren't the biggest fans, but I feel like 33 kind of equals some people.

SPEAKER_02 1:34

It does equal some people, Mac. Um, some might think it it actually equals 33% of people.

SPEAKER_00 1:39

Indeed, indeed. And speaking of some people, we have some comments over on Discord. Taylor said, I have really been racking my brain trying to figure out why I loved this movie so much as a kid. And the only thing I can come up with is Kate Hudson is really hot.

SPEAKER_01 1:51

Yeah, something about her blonde hair, you know, all wet, runny mascara. It's a it's a vibe for her.

SPEAKER_02 1:58

Uh-uh, uh-uh, says the straight girl, who also says, even if she was gay, blondes wouldn't be her type. No, thank you. Totally agree, Taylor. Kate Hudson is very hot in this movie. Well, she's just hot, period. Aging like fine wine.

SPEAKER_00 2:12

Now our patron Jake said, I'm gonna have to rewatch this now that it got a universal slash. I just remember it being boring and run-of-the-mill vibes when I was younger at the time. And I believe it being similar to the Reaping, which is not a good movie at all. Good episode.

SPEAKER_01 2:25

I agree with him. I get these two confused, but last time I watched The Reaping, I thought it was good.

SPEAKER_00 2:30

I I actually have not seen that.

SPEAKER_01 2:32

I don't think you're missing much, honestly. It's all from the same like genre, time period, yes.

SPEAKER_00 2:38

Lastly, we want to thank all of our new listeners and Discord family members who participated in our spooky preseason challenge. Stay tuned to our social media accounts and Discord server on October 1st to find out the winners of our custom hacker slash blanket, pillow, and bonus gift from our official 2022 spooky season sponsor, Comstrips. And that's our follow-up.

SPEAKER_02 2:57

Well, our spooky preseason is winding down with a film nominated and voted on by our patrons. The nominees span from a 1995 slasher to a 2018 psychological thriller. The voting was tight, but in the end, the film that pulled through is an Australian production that follows a teen's quest for revenge once her prom invitation is rejected. This week, after narrowly winning, with 38% of the overall patron vote, we're talking about the loved ones.

SPEAKER_00 3:24

Now, this movie was nominated by our patron, Darren. Darren said, I love this film. On the surface, it doesn't seem original, but they lean hard into teen horror tropes and cliches, which left me completely surprised when the twists and turns came. More than anything, though, I just find it so much fun.

SPEAKER_02 3:39

Well, Darren, let's see if we agree with you and join in on the fun. But who's seen this one before?

SPEAKER_01 3:44

I have not seen this, nor have I heard of it. It doesn't sound vaguely familiar at all.

SPEAKER_00 3:50

I mean, I've been to prom, but I had not seen this movie.

SPEAKER_02 3:53

Oh, I haven't heard of it either. Well, let me just clarify, I've heard of it since starting this podcast because we have long gotten people requesting this, but I have not encountered this out in the wild separately in my own life. I'm actually surprised that a lot of people I know have seen this movie, and I've truly never heard it outside of the context of some people DMing us asking us to review it. So one thing I I've learned through those requests, through the people I know who have seen it, was that it was gonna be fucking gory. That is all I knew going into it.

SPEAKER_00 4:27

Yeah, I I really I watched the trailer and honestly, I was expecting torture and blood and screaming, but mostly torture, and that's hard for me because I'm not a fan of like torture porn. It's not my thing.

SPEAKER_01 4:39

To me, I thought the movie poster slash cover kind of gave away a lot. Um, so obviously I was thinking it was gonna be some sort of uh saw version or like torture version of Carrie. You know, I was surprised that in IMDB's catalog that they had this as torture. So I was like, okay, if some if it's labeled as torture, it's gonna be, it's gonna be there. And yeah, I'm excited to talk about it.

SPEAKER_02 5:02

Oh, yeah, I'm sure this is gonna be right up your alley, Alexis. This is a movie that even for expecting a lot of gore, I was still really grossed out. I was just feeling super icky experiencing this. It's kind of sad in some other parts, and it's one of those that really gets under my skin because it's not like it's so hard in the torture direction that it's like saw level, but somehow I know that pound for pound, it's very similar. It's very on par. The shit they're doing in this movie is just kind of out there, right? But I found that some of the things that I was the most grossed out about had nothing to do with the actual torture, and it was some other random bodily things. It was some food going on someone's face. It was the kind of stuff that like triggered my gag reflex. Now, all that aside, I still found myself really interested to see where things were going. And there's also like some wholesome little subplot that kind of runs through the movie that I found entertaining, and it felt like 16 Candles meets Saw.

SPEAKER_01 6:09

Darren is right. These twists and turns just really had me like on my toes for this movie, and I appreciate it because I really was thinking it was at one point just gonna be some run-of-the-mill sort of horror movie.

SPEAKER_00 6:22

I'll I'll say there was a semi-decent story to follow up. Um, you know, it I think when you expect to see a lot of torture, you don't expect to see character development or even like trauma and somebody's trauma response. But once the action began, I think the like the ratio changed, and so we got more torture mixed in than we got like character work, and that's not really the ratio I prefer. I think you can sprinkle it in, you can make me wince, you can invoke a gag reflex, but it's gotta be balanced. And so, you know, I I kind of like the actual beginning of the movie because it's not diving right into the to the action too badly, but once we got in, there's a lot. There's a lot on screen. There's like you mentioned, Chris, some definite gag-worthy moments.

SPEAKER_02 7:06

You know, there is a lot on screen, and one thing that surprised me was how there continued to just be more on screen. Just when I thought, oh, they've reached a new height, they said, nay, we're going to ascend. We're going to top that height. We're gonna go even further. And there are some elements of the movie that I I found to be pretty predictable, right? I think there's some plot points that you know you're not really surprised when it comes around. You're thinking, like, oh, okay, I saw this coming, you know, 30 minutes in. But there are so many things, particularly involving the violence in this movie, that did stun me in some ways. I'm like, what the fuck are we doing, guys? I think I'm most surprised though that it was a lot, but somehow it wasn't too much. And I think maybe this is just my tolerance level changing. What was too much for me was actually like more food related than anything. But the rest of it, I was like, oh, okay, it's just a little blood, a little stab in the foot. Yeah, it's fine. It's got it's cool, I got it.

SPEAKER_01 8:07

I can't believe I'm hearing this that it was okay. But Chris, you put it a good way, is it's the violence. And when I'm watching a movie, there's gore, and then I think, in my opinion, gore is more for like shockworthy, but I feel like violence is just like a necessity that sometimes needs to be in horror movies because there is violence in this world and it needs to be depicted, and usually the best format of that is through horror movies. So I was so surprised at the amount of gore or violence in this because it reminds me of a movie Would You Rather with Brittany Snow. And I left that movie not needing to watch horror movies actually for a while, and I think that might have the same effect, which really surprised me on how they worked this gore. But to me, there's more depth to that, which was surprising.

SPEAKER_00 8:57

The gore is the gore's intriguing in this because there's some there's some torture gore that happens, and honestly, I wasn't really surprised by it, and I was pretty fine with it. I think the thing, I don't know if shocked is the right word, but like taken aback by there was some violence towards an entity that we'll get into later. We'll specify, of course, what happens later that I didn't particularly appreciate, and so I was kind of disappointed. Again, you gotta aim it at humans. I'm okay when it's when it's against humans. But the thing that was like truly shocking, like you mentioned, Chris, is the stuff that happens that demeans the character that's being tortured. Um truly disturbing, truly disturbing how we can involve other parts of the body off-screen and it's still gagging. It's just way too much.

SPEAKER_02 9:42

But in spite of it being too much, I still didn't find it scary. I at no point found myself even remotely alarmed for worrying about someone, which sounds terrible, but I think again, it's because of that element of predictability. I think it's like the way this movie is built and the way that it kind of stages its characters across from one another. At no point did I feel like the stakes were so high that this could have had an unpredictable outcome. So I think that diminished the fear. My disgust was at an all-time high, but my anxiety or my my level of concern was low. Not to say that I d disliked or did not care about the character who was experiencing this. I found that performance pretty compelling. But this wasn't a kind of movie where if I want to curl up in bed one night and put a spooky movie on, because you know, the spooky season is upon us, this wouldn't be it. Like it wouldn't give me the kind of the kind of uh spookiness or or fear that I'm looking for.

SPEAKER_01 10:46

Yeah, it is a pretty straightforward movie, and I think you're right, Chris, that's kind of why it isn't frightening to me either. What's done on screen is pretty disturbing, but overall this movie is not frightening.

SPEAKER_00 10:58

You get a little bit of the feeling that you get when you watch Bunny Man. I think, you know, it's not particularly scary to me at all. Um, but you kind of get numb at a certain point where you're just kind of waiting for things to finish so you can see something happen that's a bit different. Um, and we'll obviously we'll talk about the ending in more detail in a bit, but this like had a feeling of like Wolf Creek for me, where again, like it's it's not that it's particularly scary, but you're kind of just like waiting, you're like, come on, just finish it, like do something either take him out or let them go. I just need it to end. You've you just I just hit a point where I've had my threshold met and I just want it over, but I don't find it scary. And I will say, I mean, bringing it back to Wolf Creek, this this movie reminded me of so many other things. I think the particular setup we get with like inviting someone to a school dance and then they turn you down and whatever, like that's that's new and that's fresh. Um, but there's a lot that happens here that's like a huge nod to like 20,000 other movies. The character stuff though, the trauma stuff though, I think is what makes this movie stand out from all those other movies.

SPEAKER_02 12:05

I agree with standing out, but there is a little bit of it that felt like it was trying to replicate Cherish Your Life energy from Saul. Again, not that I fell too deeply into that with Saul. I know that uh our Saw fans out there, our Saw stands, will defend that to no end, but this movie was different enough. It was a a a pleasant amalgamation of things that I think it it carves its own identity. But there are certainly parts of it that we've seen in so many movies before. So it's not to its credit, it's not to its discredit. This is just another movie that you should put on if you're looking for some extreme violence. Extreme violence that's not done at like a mass scale. It's kind of like the violence that you would think about if you were wanting to watch these true crime documentaries about serial killers past. This, if you want to see that in like a modern context, I think this is what you would look at for that. Yeah, very up close and personal.

SPEAKER_01 13:03

Uh I would agree. I thought this movie was filled with tropes, like you mentioned, Mac. You know, it's the oh, you know, vengeance, you know, on being denied. It's, you know, teens going to prom. But you know, I'm not a hater on those. And you know, I love horror for doing those kind of things and playing off this, but at no point did I think this was not original. It just it feels familiar, but I wouldn't say this is like something else I've watched. But did it have a better ending than most things you watched? Oh, yeah. So when I'm talking about the ending, I'm talking about like the last probably 30 minutes of this movie just had me on my feet, and I was just like WTF, and I was so surprised.

SPEAKER_02 13:47

Yeah, no longer sitting. Alexis is full standing in her 5'2 frame, hands clutched, pearls clutched, thinking, what's gonna happen next?

SPEAKER_01 13:56

I really like that. I think it's because I've been reading a lot, so I'm always page turning, so I'm building up to the end, and I think that's coming across in when I'm watching movies as well.

SPEAKER_00 14:05

I think you said the right thing though, that the ending is like the last 30 minutes of the movie because it truly feels that long. It's the type of ending that I hoped for, and it's the type of ending that I expected, because I think you can kind of predict a lot that's going to happen, but we get to that like that very last question of what's gonna happen to our main character, what's gonna happen to the antagonists, and it it kind of landed the plane in a way that I was okay with just really slowly.

SPEAKER_02 14:31

See, this is where I struggle though, because the last 30 minutes, great, entertaining, cool, I get it. What's gonna happen next? Okay, there is one thing in the end that surprised me 100%. It was that uh so close and yet so far away kind of feeling. But this is one that I felt could have ended in so many different places, and I say that, and I don't want to sound too harsh saying that, because on paper, I like everything that happens in the third act. I like the direction it goes. I just feel like it dragged on a bit, and I feel like we could have consolidated just a little bit of it. That being said, though, there were some parallels that we get, particularly when we think about how some of its scenes are framed and how some of its shots are composed, that I think draws some lines of symmetry between characters and their experiences that I found really, really interesting. But the ending, while it wasn't the weakest part of the movie for me, still left just a bit to be desired. We'll see if it shakes my ranking in any terrible way. But before we get to the actual scores, Alexis, how would you describe the gore score for this movie?

SPEAKER_01 15:39

I'd be lying if I were to tell you this is um holy shit, a lot of gore. If this is uh terrifier level, it it's extreme. But if Chris can watch it, I think our listeners can watch it.

SPEAKER_02 15:52

For sure. But uh also keep in mind that Chris can watch it, but it's not that I can't stomach gore, it's just that I actively dislike it. I think if someone has a weak stomach, they probably should not watch this movie, you know what I mean? Oh, yeah, for sure. There's a warning right there. But what about the animal report?

SPEAKER_01 16:08

Yeah, it's tough to watch. Uh Mac alluded to some stuff, and we'll talk about in the second half, but it's not for the faint of heart.

SPEAKER_02 16:15

Well, let's go ahead and get into our ratings and the loved ones from 2009 as nominated, voted, selected by our patrons. Was it a hacker or slash?

SPEAKER_00 16:25

Well, I'll go first here because I am not a fan of Saw, Hostel, or other what I consider torture porn movies. It just like does not do it for me. I'm not the biggest fan of gore. I think it's overused in in many cases. But there was enough here, I think, to save the overall package and make it a soft slash for me. There's some character-driven drama, and in I mean a truly insane father-daughter dynamic, and an ending that while it was long, it it delivered the goods. So I think if you were to take a bit out of the whole gore and torture, I would be really good. And if you were to take some particular violence against non-humans out, I would be in solid slash territory. But overall, as it is, soft slash.

SPEAKER_01 17:12

Alright, alright. I appreciate that. I appreciate that. Now I don't want people to think I'm crazy because I like stuff like this, but um, it is uh slightly entertaining to watch things happen to people that you never could imagine. So it's no surprise I do like gore, and obviously this m movie has an insane amount, and it's to a character that I feel bad for. And I like that this movie's able to pull on some heart strings, and I think what happens is you have these simultaneous, you know, plot lines going on, and the way they merge and the way they're in the back and in the forefront. I thought it was great. It kind of reminded me of like watching a crime show. Like, you know who did it, and you're trying to figure out how people are gonna find out who did it. Kind of like Lovely Bones, where you're like, you know what happens, but how are these people going to figure out what the solution is? And Darren was on point with this movie. It has so many twists and turns that I was not expecting. And I think that is what makes this movie a little bit more than your surface level prompt, someone gets dumped, they're out for vengeance movie. So this is getting a slash for me.

SPEAKER_02 18:22

Well, this is a turn of events. There's a lot that makes up this movie. There's a lot of gore, there's a lot of violence, there's a lot of trauma, there's a lot of grieving, there's a lot of exploration between teenage experiences and how in the same breath you can have someone at their highest moment in their teenage years and someone experiencing unspeakable horrors. And the juxtaposition of that, I think, is what makes this movie really, really interesting. There are things in this movie that are particularly heavy-handed. I think it takes a big swing, and I don't think it's necessarily a home run in most things, but it absolutely made me cringe in a way that it intended to. It got under my skin, it made me gag, but not in a way that we think of like human centipede that would make me gag for a completely different reason, and it's not one that I want to fucking partake in at all. This goes right up to the line of what I think my tolerance level is for that kind of stuff, and there are some really interesting family dynamics that get explored in this movie that I think I could have done without, but I do think it's an interesting parallel or spin on some of the horror movies that we've seen in the past. This is a movie that I watched on a streaming platform that had ads, and this is the first time I have not been sad that there are ads because I needed a break from the intensity of it. But overall, it's a solid mechanical film. It made me feel things, but not so badly that it just bummed me out or just dislike grossed me out for the rest of the day. This was a serviceable watch, and it's a slash.

SPEAKER_00 20:04

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 20:05

This this this really is a turn.

SPEAKER_00 20:08

Yeah, this is not the way I thought this was gonna go.

SPEAKER_01 20:10

Not at all. I didn't even know what I was gonna give it till I got on the mic.

SPEAKER_02 20:14

Well, I think the interesting thing here is when we have three of us, we it's very easy for us to all land on like the universal territory. So we're gonna have to spice things up a bit. But there you have it, folks. The loved ones from 2009, as nominated and chosen by our patrons, has thus far earned a universal slash. But the conversation doesn't end there because we have so much to unpack in the spoiler section, and we need to know how you weigh in on it and how you feel, so you can find this movie streaming online. You can particularly check it out on Pluto, for example. Go check it out, then join us in the second half so we can get into the nitty-gritty together. We'll see you in a bit.

SPEAKER_00 21:17

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SPEAKER_02 22:09

Welcome back, folks. You are now entering the spoiler zone for the loved ones, which has earned a universal slash. Now we have a lot to unpack here, but before we get into the specifics of our ratings, we gotta talk about the death.

SPEAKER_01 22:23

Alexis, take us through the kills. Holy shit. This is a ridiculous movie. There's eight deaths and you feel all eight, except for, you know, the people that are the abductees down in this uh basement. You know, all of them are memorable.

SPEAKER_00 22:39

Well, I can tell you one that I didn't love, and that's obviously where Dan dies in a car crash. Like that's I'm not down for that. That's too real.

SPEAKER_01 22:47

Yeah, it was sad. But you know, my favorite part about that, I have a favorite part of every kill in this, yeah. Was that it went back to the beginning because I was like, why is this random dude all bloody? And then I was like, Oh, it's one of her victims.

SPEAKER_00 22:59

When we saw that, that's kind of what I that's what I assumed up front, and I'm like, ooh, they're gonna sprinkle it in early and then spike it later on, which which I do, which I do appreciate. I think I have to go for probably the easiest one, and that's gonna be when when daddy gets stabbed in the neck and then thrown into the pit. Because I feel like how could you not enjoy that after all the suffering he just forced upon our main character?

SPEAKER_02 23:24

Oh, that was a hundred percent satisfying, Mac. When we first get that first even slice to his face, I'm like, fuck yeah, your uppants will come. Here it is. His death was extremely satisfying, but there was no death more satisfying to me than Lola herself. Holy shit, the cinematography of this moment, you know, it was a bam bitch went down, but she could barely stay down. You know what I mean? Like we had to have a real final reverse. And at first I thought, hmm, don't let me down, don't disappoint me because it was going so slow. And I understand that as we push into Lola's face, as she's seeing this car coming to her, we have this moment of okay, she sees it happening, it's slow motion, but the car in res in in respect to that just seemed like it was just reversing at one mile an hour. So for it to get that sudden quick flash and that quick snap of her head back when we actually see the car make the impact, so fucking good. It was a great exclamation point at the end of this movie, and I'm not even someone who frequently uses exclamation points.

SPEAKER_01 24:38

I use exclamation points a lot, and I agree with you, Chris. I love the sound though, specifically. It's like a bam. Just it was perfect. There was no sound, and then there was sound as she gets hit, and I was not expecting that. And honestly, that was a jump scare for me. So these might seem minimal in the grand scheme of everything that happened, but I think it was such a turning point for me. And I know I explained in the first half at that 30-minute mark where everything just fucking turns and those doors open, and you're not sure what the fuck is in this basement, but you hear it and then you see it, and I think when Brent is down there, it is just so scary to me. And I was just like, oh my gosh, like that he's gonna die down here. But I know this movie, and he wasn't going to die down there, and he did a full Batman move and just like hit him, bam, done, hit him, bam, done. And I appreciate that because that happens a lot in movies. But I just think this whole ambiance and the vibe that this brought right before this was like it was scary. It was fuck what is happening? They have people in their basement, they're crazier than I fucking thought.

SPEAKER_00 25:54

I I do like the explanation though, because I was wondering, like, so bright eyes with the hole in her forehead, like what the heck is going on there, and then we get to the point where they're gonna drill one in his and then they're gonna boil his brains, and he's supposed to survive that and turn into one of these things. Like, uh, it's all very implausible. Um, but to see them in action, it's really interesting. It reminds reminded me of the descent a lot uh when we see them down there. I was curious if they were gonna try to attack him or if they were gonna be like, like, hey dude, like thank you for finally bringing us you know some justice or something. But no, they were just hungry.

SPEAKER_01 26:31

I was hoping he'd open his shirt and then they would all have the same barkings. He'd be like, All right, dude, we're gonna help you get out of here.

SPEAKER_02 26:37

I'm sorry. Do you mean like little Superman, like the little symbol of uh Krypton? You know, you got at Kalel's house. You were like, all right, we're a gang now.

SPEAKER_01 26:45

That's exactly what it was gonna be. And let me tell you, speaking of gore, I mean, you you got the dad putting in, you know, the knives and then hammering it in. And I love how realistic this is because we've seen movies where knives just go through people like it's butter. And this actually takes the time that you know that it's hard, I'm assuming it's hard to stab someone. I'm sure it takes a lot of force, so they're using a hammer. I'm like, oh good lord. And then the carving, just the buildup to that, and then they're doing the salt, I'm assuming, on the wound, and that is just so cringy. Adding in salt to injury.

SPEAKER_00 27:27

Oof.

SPEAKER_01 27:27

It it was just this movie, it's just impactful, you know. And then we've all seen a drill go into someone's head. We've seen Saw, I believe that's two or three, where, you know, you got the the makeshift brain surgery and cutting the skull open. But this is just crazy because I just thought that they would not do it, something would happen, and you do get that pullback a little bit, but they actually fucking do it. And I was just so surprised that they just kept pushing the limits on the gore and pushing it and pushing it and pushing it. Not what I would say tasteful, but still approachable and watchable, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_00 28:05

Yeah, when I when we were watching the foot get stabbed over and over with a knife, I was curious if they were even gonna show anything because at first it seemed like they were gonna cut away, but then they actually did show it. But when they kept doing the repeated stabbings with the hammer on it, we just saw his face and his reaction. I think that was like that was a good move. Like, get us once with the hardcore stuff, and then you can just refer to it and it can be out of the frame. And and I'm I'm okay with that part as well. I I was honestly concerned that they were gonna pull back and we're gonna see his toes all lopped off at the end of it. So I'm I'm glad we didn't get something that extreme.

SPEAKER_01 28:38

Yeah, it was very interesting, and I know we'll talk about it later, but how the fuck do you survive some shit like this? Like to me, enough to get in a car and drive really fast.

SPEAKER_02 28:48

Listen, you're not surviving well. I can't imagine this man's life expectancy is gonna be exactly phenomenal at the other side of this. The idea of a drill going in your head, this man got a lobotomy. And I know that we've seen this with like Jeffrey Dahmer. We've heard of victims who escaped Jeffrey Dahmer's clutches, but then were taken right back up to Jeffrey Dahmer's apartment. I cannot imagine someone penetrating my fucking skull, get a little bit of the brain stuff out, and then still wanting to live life after that.

SPEAKER_01 29:20

Take me out, Cap. And then it being, oh, I don't think it's big enough and going back in, I do I would be like, just go all the way through, please, because uh I've got nothing left in me.

SPEAKER_02 29:31

Here's the thing as someone who has in the last couple years really gotten into drilling holes into walls now that I'm not in an apartment, I have definitely hit those points where at one point you're going, you're trying to drill in and it's not going anywhere. But then I've also had the other side of it. And I I was actually thinking about this while watching this movie. There was a point where I have like a soft spot in my in my wall, uh, where it's like kind of exposed to the elements, and I went to drill in, and then it easily crumbled into a way bigger hole. I'm like, fuck, now I gotta figure out this whole situation. And all I could think was if I had this drilled to a man's head, I feel like the same thing would happen. And I'm sure scientifically it wouldn't.

SPEAKER_00 30:10

Oof. There's that's honestly a scene from Punisher Warzone as well, where he goes to punch someone and their whole face caves in like jam.

SPEAKER_02 30:17

Bam, bitch went jam.

SPEAKER_00 30:19

It's pretty ridiculous, to be honest, and completely unrealistic.

SPEAKER_02 30:22

I will say, for as much as there is a lot of violence in this movie, for there being a lot of gore in this movie, there's still a lot that I manage to appreciate in terms of its aesthetics. And I wanted to note the specific absence of a mid-2000s approach. Obviously, this is 2009, so we're not in that time period. But I think of like the early Saw movies, I think of a lot of other torture-adjacent movies, and they all have that disgusting green hue. And this one was completely void of that. I love this film's use of color. We have the warmth in the beginning, we have the cool tones that kind of take every frame. I as we realize how Brent is coping with this tragedy and this loss in his life and kind of seeing what he's going through. But even when things were so chaotic and so bloody, we still had such an excellent grade in those scenes. So all the colors of the prom really popped. I absolutely loved it. This movie could have looked way more fucking gross had they just gone more gritty on the aesthetic. And I'm so glad they made the choice to not do that.

SPEAKER_01 31:32

Well, you know, I love that vibe. But I do appreciate that. And Chris, you mentioned the lighting in the beginning when Brent's climbing up and you know he's contemplating whether he's going to commit suicide. It seemed, you know, he's just contemplating life, and once it gets to the top, it just looks so beautiful. I don't know where it's filmed, but it's great. Um, there's these beautiful trees and the sunlight. I mean, just it's beautiful. And then you're taken back by how dark and ominous it gets when he is drugged, which I love the contrast between those two. But definitely the visuals of that scene are great.

SPEAKER_00 32:10

Speaking of dark, though, I'm gonna go straight for the zombie pit. That big open door, where it's like honestly, it reminds me of 300, where you could be like kicked into that hole, you know, this is Sparta and all that kind of stuff. But to have the big open door and then to finally go into it, to have two characters go into it and to see like the utter darkness where we get these these other victims then tearing at the flesh of the daddy character, that whole thing was just way more monstrous, I think, than the rest of the film seemed. Like the rest of the film, I mean, they're there are different types of monsters, right? And this one is like an actual monster monster lives in a dark hole in your basement. And I dug it.

SPEAKER_02 32:52

Yeah, dude, it was given Star Wars. It was in we're given the Rancor pit. I thought we were in Java Hut's palace, and we're gonna see our young Luke Skywalker fall into the pit and have to really nope his way out of this situation. That was a turning point in this movie because we have this cop who gets to the house and it's like, no, this is too easy. There's no way that this man has just figured it out, has arrived at the situation, and then everything's gonna be okay. So we figured he'd be easily extinguished. But even his death didn't have the same whoa impact for me as when we first see what's lurking beneath. Because it'd be one thing to just be Brent, but to know that there's a whole other gang of them down there that are just relegated to this life, it's harrowing, it's terrifying. And again, I know I said I wasn't scared of this movie earlier, but the concept of you being in that situation, uh, it actually reminded me of the wrong turn reboot that we got recently. And you see kind of like what happens to people after they've had such violence inflicted upon them, and how where do you go? What do you do? Uh they are just meant to just live on in this state, and it's fucking terrible. All my favorite scenes in this movie have to do with that pit. It was for sure, like at the reveal at him getting beaten and thrown into there. It was a but wait, there's more moment that really added a layer of complexity to the situation that I didn't think it could have up its sleeve.

SPEAKER_00 34:28

Yeah, if they had opened the door to that pit and it was just empty and dark, and this is where we're gonna put you after we're done with you, that would have been super typical, kind of what we expected, and he would have found a way to get out while throwing in, you know, daddy into that pit. But for there to be other victims in there and waiting and hungry and willing to eat human flesh, way more monstrous. And such such a shock, honestly. I mean, I don't know about like twists or anything, but it's not something that I expected to happen whatsoever. I went with kind of a more boring scene for my favorite, and that's our two dudes hanging out at the lockers. I think we transitioned from the from the car accident to current times, and we kind of see how Brent's doing, and it's like immediately, hey, guess guess what? He went through trauma and now he's not well, and he's just trying to make it through day by day. So not surprising whatsoever, but there's like a clear, distinct visual change in the character. And we see him hanging out with his friend, and and who knows how he's getting through. He's got some drugs going on, but he's turning down the beer for some reason. This movie does a really good job of like contrast in its in its characters and in the scene, whether it comes to going from light to dark, going from you know the the hillside that that um that you mentioned, Alexis, to being in the house. But I think it does a good job at like showing change really rapidly without having to like plaster something on the screen in text. Like three weeks later, he's depressed, boom, and go. You know, I I I think it's great that they can just show us.

SPEAKER_01 35:57

And did they show us a lot in um the dinner scene? You know, you see him drugged and then you see him on a table strapped up, you see bright eyes, and you're like, what is this strange thing that's going on? And honestly, it just reminded me so much of Texas Chainsaw Massacre, and I loved it. You know, all these people sitting at the table, you don't know what they're doing. And I know Chris probably does not like this scene because of the food stuff that's going on in this.

SPEAKER_02 36:26

Honestly, here's the thing a lot of the gore in this movie I can take rubbing greasy chicken to someone's face. I could feel myself breaking out watching this movie, and I don't even break out that much, right? Like I don't have a whole lot of acne or anything, but I'm just thinking about this man's pores. Those poor, poor pores. That was fucking disgusting. And then to know that it was also wiping someone's eaten chicken, like there's some bites in there. It wasn't just like grab a fresh piece, rub the skin on you. No, this was someone's fucking dinner, and their mouth juices are now on that chicken. It adds a disgusting layer to it, and I understand, I get it. There is so much in this movie that is more gross and more intense than a piece of chicken. And I'm not even particularly like I'm not vegetarian, I'm not vegan, like I eat chicken, right? But even I in that moment could be like, yo, that's disgusting. I don't want to fucking eat that, right? Like, it is just gross. And then the fucking chugging of the milk. Oh god, I am actually about to like gag. Just thinking about getting the chicken stuffed in his mouth and then the fucking milk. Oh, why is it so bad?

SPEAKER_00 37:43

Milk is one thing. Having somebody, you know, eat some chicken, then rub the chicken on your mouth, shoving their fingers with chicken grease into your mouth, and then asking if their finger looking good. That to me was that was that was so disgusting.

SPEAKER_01 37:59

You know, I just feel so bad for Brent in this because he's actually like putting up a fight, and he's, you know, you know, especially at the point where you know, she's begging him to cry. Like she's like, Why aren't you crying? Like, I want you to cry, or you know, you need to pee, you know, in the cup or whatever the hell that was. Like, it was just so much. And Brent for a character was like given vibes. I don't know what it is, but like I just see this transformation, and he's just like not quitting, you know. He he's been through all of this, and it's not even just his trauma, he has to deal with his mom's, and you know, he's trying to be a good boyfriend, and there's just so much going on, and you would think at a point like that, you would just be like, I'm giving up, but instead it's almost like he's stronger because of it, and he's not giving up, and he doesn't, in my opinion, give up through this entire movie, and I can applaud that.

SPEAKER_02 38:49

Think about Brent not quitting, not giving up. I actually found a lot of his moments to be a little too heavy-handed. It's not anything when he's out the house. I felt like his performance was spectacular, but it's that period of time when we have him post-car crash, pre-abduction, where it feels like we're shown a lot, and it would be great if we weren't told. It feels equal parts show and tell in a heavy-handed way. Yes, Brent, we understand. Like Brent has changed. Brent is not the same Brent. You can see it on his face, you can see it in the length of his hair, you can see it in his general disposition. But then we get his interactions with Holly. Uh, we get his interactions in the car, we see the self-harm, we see the razor blade around his neck. It just felt a little excessive.

SPEAKER_01 39:47

Yeah, the razor blade necklace. I was like, they're really on the nose with this.

SPEAKER_02 39:51

Sir, this isn't practical. Your girlfriend is putting her hand up your shirt. You want her to cut herself? That's not okay.

SPEAKER_01 40:00

I was thinking about this. I was like, if they keep it on, her chest is gonna be all scarred up. Like, or are they into are we into this? I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_00 40:11

What a teenager thing to do, though. To wear a razor blade as a pendant. That's that's a that's something that a 17-year-old would do.

SPEAKER_02 40:19

Again, had to get myself out of the pretty little liars rewatch because there was some self-harm in that with too. And I'm like, Jesus, what is it what am I watching today that's just teenager after teenager after teenager with angst?

SPEAKER_01 40:30

Well, I mean, that is what is a trope of it all. And I mean, possibly not even a trope. I don't know, but this is a guy I totally would have dated in high school, right up the alley, you know, angsty, um, kind of a badass, has long hair, like something about him.

SPEAKER_02 40:48

I don't know. He seems like a good guy, though. You know what I mean? I feel like your stories from your past lead me to believe you wouldn't have dated someone so nice. No, I would not have. Yeah. I wasn't a super big fan of just his whole vibe. Like he's a great character. I don't have anything against the actor, but there's something about him that I just couldn't put my finger on why I was not totally immersed and invested in him. I was more invested in Holly than I was in him, which is a really silly thing to say. Like she's very passive in this movie, and but at least she like, you know, passes this information along and she does something about it. She goes to find him. One of the things that I really enjoyed though was seeing the parallels that get drawn between people's experiences. So we have Bright Eyes and Jamie. We have Jamie and Brent. We have Jamie having the night of his life, and then we have someone dying in the background, right? And it's these hard cuts. We have a moment where Holly is sitting in her room alone in the dark, and Brent is sitting alone in the dark. And I absolutely love what that framed for us, right? We see how Brent obviously wears his heart on his sleeve. He's not hiding how he's feeling inside, but this movie did feel like one big metaphor for the darkness that he has been in since his father died. And then also showing how the world is reacting around him.

SPEAKER_00 42:22

Yeah, I mean, this is like a literal pit of despair that he gets thrown into and then has to find his way out of, you know, as he's he's working through it, that's for sure. I don't know that I was such a huge fan of the whole Jamie and uh Mia going to prom thing or you know, just going to a formal thing. That was it was kind of a lot. And I get the idea where we're supposed to have that split storyline, but every time we would like flip back, it would take me out for a second because I'm like, oh, look at them having this really weird night. It's kind of distracting, honestly.

SPEAKER_02 42:51

I needed that though for comedic relief because I needed the break-in intensity. Everything about what Brent was experiencing was so horrowing, and that was so heavy to wear. I don't think I could have done this movie or slashed this movie or finished it even, really, if we didn't have that little bit of levity mixed in because Jamie and Mia were comedy. And then we also learn more about Mia. We see that something's going on with her, and it's not just that she's being super aloof, but there's actual sadness in her too, right? And again, we this movie is exploring how there's so much more that lies beneath the surface that people allow us to see. So even in this night of fun, she is drinking a little bit too much, they're being reckless, they're excited, but then we have this unrelenting sadness from Mia when we realize what's actually going on in her life. And so it gave us that levity and then grounded it back into the story to kind of bring it all together.

SPEAKER_01 43:54

Yeah, Chris, you couldn't have said it any better. Jamie does add this comedic value. That this movie needs it would be something you would probably watch if you hadn't been in it and kind of look back and be like, you know, this is so sad. I d wish I didn't see it, and I don't know if I'd ever watch it again. But it is that good balance that Jamie and that whole plot line does bring.

SPEAKER_02 44:17

I can tell you though, about another plot line that this movie definitely wove in there that I didn't want fucking anything to do with, and that was the incestual subtext. Didn't want it when I first saw it, didn't want it when it was confirmed. Absolutely disgusting. I I think that this movie was trying to do a lot when we think about Lola and her dad in Bride Eyes, but I don't think it needed to go there to do it.

SPEAKER_01 44:44

Yeah, I don't even think you needed uh the dad looking uh up and down or the close-ups of her ass when he's looking. Like I get it. I don't even I didn't even need that exchange to know that they had a weird relationship because later on finding out I'm assuming Bride Eyes was the mom that her pulling the hair, doing all these, you know, sort of little bit of things, the whole story adds up. And it was like you mentioned Chris, like I don't need you to spell it out for me, kind of thing.

SPEAKER_02 45:12

Yeah, honestly, it okay, so I know I go on and on about how Greece 2 is, in my opinion, the superior Grease film, but in that movie, there's a moment where I'm the main girl and the main guy are singing their end song, and it's like, you're the one, the one in my dreams, but I ever never knew it. I wanted to tell you time and again, but I couldn't do it. I thought of that moment when I fucking saw Lola and her dad, and she's like, It's you, Daddy. It's always been you. And I'm like, Jesus fucking Christ, no, this is not good. Stop it. Stop right there. There should not be rom-com parallels here. That is not the energy exchange exchange that's necessary between you. Leave that shit at the door. No. It had no place in this movie, it added zero value. That is, I think, the problem because for as much as this movie tries to disturb you with its gore, and it does so in a really effective way, and it it holds back in other ways. This felt like a we're just gonna do it just to fuck around. We're just gonna disturb you. Let's just gross you out. Didn't need it. Honestly, might retroactively hack this movie because of it. We'll see.

SPEAKER_00 46:18

I think a hint. There could have been a hint, and we would have been fine with just the hint, right? Of the idea where he like is refraining from from you know looking at her or something. I think when we get that full up and down look where the camera is doing the looking for us, that took things like way too far, and that's just the beginning. When we make it all the way later, that's too much. The thing I could have done without in this movie, the thing that I think was probably the worst part was okay, so we're going to prom, we're having this little moment of levity. Do we need to see a handy happening on the dance floor? I don't really know why we needed that. I think again, maybe like a little make out session on the dance floor would have been sufficient. But to see that like awkward, serious stare into the eyes and then reaching down to do to do the business, that was that was a lot.

SPEAKER_01 47:07

Yeah, I feel like that was just a trope in and of itself again. You know, I'm assuming these people can't do it at their house, so they're going for the next resource, which is school.

SPEAKER_00 47:16

But there's I think there's another worst part to this film, and that's the dog death.

SPEAKER_01 47:21

Oh yeah. How did we not mention this yet? Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 47:24

We didn't want to think about it. That's why.

SPEAKER_02 47:26

Devastating. And the way that we saw his little last dying breath, oh, the resilience in this dog to not only get stabbed, but to crawl his way home to just give him one last Timmy fell down the well. So sad.

SPEAKER_00 47:38

It's too much. And I don't think we needed the dog one to even die. I think maybe scare the dog off would have been great for the story, would have worked because the dog would have run back home and they were like, oh my gosh, where's Timmy? He's in the well. Thanks, dog, good job. That would have been completely fine with me. But instead, yeah, like not only did he kill the dog and we had to see that going down, but it's like, hey, by the way, I used this hammer to kill your dog. Like next level. Next level. I I didn't need it.

SPEAKER_01 48:03

Yeah, it was really something I didn't need to see. It's weird that I picked the least worst part out of all of these, because you guys had some good choices. But mine was just something that movies do, and I talked about this earlier, is that you can get your ass whooped where you should be dead, and you can, you know, be on the brink of death yet do some, you know, superhero things towards the end. And it really took me out of reality when he was fucking driving and had the ability to like do all these things. It was like nothing happened. And it's not even the driving part, it was his actions in the car. He wasn't really slow to move, it was fast, it was like normal, and that just took me out of the movie slightly. But it wasn't necessarily something that would deter me from recommending this movie if people were into this sort of thing. I don't know if I specifically would watch this again. It might have to be some few years removed from this because I do like the you know twists and turns, and I feel like with enough time I'll forget about that and it'll be like rewatching it for the first time.

SPEAKER_00 49:09

I gave it a soft slash, but if you made me watch it again, you're gonna push me into hack territory, I think. I think it would be too much at that point, and I just wouldn't be able to to give it any sort of positive review, because again, torture is really not my thing. So I just didn't love it enough to uh to say I would watch it again.

SPEAKER_02 49:28

Oh, for sure. I will recommend this. I'll have this up my sleeve for people who are into this and need to see something different or see something that's really fucking intense. But it will not be recommended to I think a lot of my friends who I I think are of similar taste to me, with preferring slashers with little gore. This is a movie that you have to really know your audience to recommend it. And I'm glad Darren recommended it to us. I think I'm glad to have seen this, but I can't imagine wanting to see this again. Let's see if I can be swayed by the value Mac brings in our fact of fiction.

SPEAKER_00 50:02

Number one, this movie took only six weeks to film.

SPEAKER_01 50:05

I mean, there's not much to it, but I just think that there's more time needed to do things, especially all these effects, so uh fiction.

SPEAKER_00 50:15

Well, this is a fiction, uh, because it was done in four weeks.

SPEAKER_01 50:18

Oh shit. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 50:20

Gotta love it. That's efficiency right there. Number two, despite playing teenagers, Xavier Samuel and Jessica McNamy and Robin McCleavy had already turned 30 by the time they filmed this.

SPEAKER_01 50:31

Yeah, these people once again do not look like teenagers. So fact.

SPEAKER_00 50:36

This one is also a fiction. They were in their 20s, 25, 23, and 28, respectively.

SPEAKER_01 50:41

Wow, so you're just deceiving me tonight. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 50:44

Well, we'll see how things go moving forward. We're halfway through. So, number three, the finger looking good scene got the added KFC slogan after one of the crew received the chicken and suggested they use the classic line.

SPEAKER_01 50:55

I feel like this is cool enough to be a fact.

SPEAKER_00 50:58

Well, it's a fiction. It it wasn't KFC. Uh, but that does sound good about now. I think Popeye's is better though, especially with those biscuits.

SPEAKER_01 51:06

Don't they have chicken sandwiches now?

SPEAKER_00 51:07

I haven't got one of those, but they do, and they're really good as well.

SPEAKER_01 51:10

But it hit its year anniversary recently.

SPEAKER_00 51:13

Hey, I don't sandwich on its own with some beans or slaw or something. I don't care. Just give me some fried chicken, I love it. And number four, Brent has a poster on his bedroom wall for the metal album Hammerhead by Metal Grease, a clear foreshadowing of what's to come later in the film.

SPEAKER_01 51:28

Fact.

SPEAKER_00 51:28

This one's also a fiction.

SPEAKER_01 51:30

Fuck.

SPEAKER_00 51:30

But he does have posters for Master of Puppets and Kill Em All by Metallica and Radiohead's Amnesiac.

SPEAKER_01 51:36

And I'm dead tonight.

SPEAKER_00 51:38

Well, this one was a twist. It was all fiction, so you're welcome. That's been Factor Fiction.

SPEAKER_02 51:43

Well, there you have it, folks. The loved ones from 2009, as chosen by your patrons, has earned so far a universal slash. Now we certainly had a lot to talk about here, but it doesn't end here by any means. We want to know what you think. Were you also grossed out by this movie? Did you think it went too far? Did the milk make you gag? Let us know. You can join in on the conversation for free by hanging out with us in our Discord and roll on over to our spooky season celebrations. Go ahead and click the link in our show notes to sign up.

SPEAKER_00 52:11

If you've enjoyed listening to this episode, consider becoming one of our patrons. Visit patreon.com slash hackerslash to enjoy more of the show with early access, extended episodes, bonus content, and live shows.

SPEAKER_02 52:23

We'll see you next time, folks, and remember the trick is not to go too far. Bye.