235: The Munsters (2022)

SPEAKER_00 0:04

It doesn't take much for me to have a good time, and I don't know what that says about me. Greetings and salutations, and welcome to the spooky season with Hackerslash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. Come on, we have a lot of grave robbing ahead of us this evening. If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack, a total joke, a waste of time. Or a slash.

SPEAKER_01 0:31

Totally killer, pun intended.

SPEAKER_00 0:33

We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, we're rating these movies with a perspective we've gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast, and this week I'm joined by the Superfly Space Guy Mac, Hola Muchachos, and our new friend, Sean. Greetings from Transylvania. This episode and the entirety of our 2022 spooky season is brought to you by our friends at Comstrips. Comstrips is helping us celebrate our 2022 theme of comfort horror, and in that spirit, today's film is a Rob Zombie attempt to reboot a TV series many of us have turned to for comfort, including Sean. Before we get down to business though, we'd love for you to get to know our new friend a bit better. Sean, I'm so excited that you're here. I feel like this has been a long time coming. What is your connection to the horror genre and how deep does your love of horror run?

SPEAKER_02 1:23

Super excited to be here. My connection to horror in general starts as a, oddly enough, a very young child. My grandmother and my mom, but mostly my grandmother, were really big fans of like classic horror. And so I grew up watching old 1930s horror, The Mummy, Dracula, Frankenstein's Monster, all of those. And with my mom watching the original Monsters series, uh, as they, you know, had countless reruns. So that is where my my connection to horror goes. And uh ever since then, it's just become like an infatuation. I love all things horror.

SPEAKER_01 2:05

You also have some great tattoos. Yes. But which style of horror do you most prefer?

SPEAKER_02 2:10

Because of where my love of horror came from, I uh my style, my favorite, my favorite style of horror is classic horror films. Listening to this podcast, that might be an unpopular decision, you know, but yeah, I love the 1930s and 1940s era of horror is my thing. Like that is what I love, truly. But I I love a good slasher film. I really love a good haunting, I love ghost stories, I love all of that stuff. Um, but yeah, classic horror is where it's at.

SPEAKER_01 2:41

I I love that for many reasons. One of the reasons is obviously I'm a huge Trek nerd, and in Star Trek, in the future, apparently, when they're watching films, especially horror films, it's always classic horror. It's never like a 1970s horror film. It's always they're watching something from the 30s.

SPEAKER_02 2:58

Yeah, yeah. The 1930s, it was it's just an iconic era for horror films. Uh, there's just so many great things that came out of there. Uh when you think of, you know, uh Boris Karloff and Bella Legosi and and those and those people, like it, it's just uh those characters that they developed and made their own lasted a lifetime. Like they're still even probably even more popular now than they were back then.

SPEAKER_00 3:26

Oh, absolutely. You can't go on creepycompany.com without seeing Bella Legosi's face somewhere. And I, you know, like Mac, I love that for several reasons because I do think that's like been a blind spot for me. I love classic film, and there are so many movies I love from a very similar time frame, Sean, but I went more like Doris Day, Rock Hudson, Cary Grant, romantic comedies. Whereas I think classic horror, you know, I've I've seen some, but not all. I haven't seen the original like takes on Dracula, for example. I'm excited to learn more about that from you.

SPEAKER_01 4:02

Yeah, absolutely. If you had to pick one though, what would be your favorite horror movie of all time?

SPEAKER_02 4:08

Uh it's super, super hard. It is truly a toss-up, and I'll tell you why. Most often than not, I'll lean towards the mummy, the Boris Karloff mummy, from I believe that was like 1932. It just brings back memories of of being with my grandmother, who's no longer, you know, with with me. You know, just watching that movie just brings me back to to sitting on the couch and spending time with her. And she loved all things ancient Egypt and and she really enjoyed watching this film, and it and that's where that's the story is so good, the acting is so good. Boris Karloff just nails it. It's it's it it hasn't been matched uh yet. And uh so that one I lean to most most often than not, but it is a toss-up between that and and the 1931 Frankenstein, just because, again, Boris Karloff just nailing it, but um, I relate super, super well to Frankenstein because Frankenstein's monster is an outcast, right? Frankenstein's monster is somebody that's not accepted by society because he's outside of the norm. And I think that has always been something super relatable to me because I never felt like I was inside of the norm. I I listen to metal and punk and I like horror and weird like things around death, and and people just don't get it or didn't get it. Maybe it's more acceptable now uh than it was growing up. Uh, but uh but yeah, so like it's as far as like relating to a character, it's Frankenstein's monster. As far as nostalgia and and emotional memories, it's it's the mummy.

SPEAKER_00 5:45

Damn, that's such a beautiful explanation. Obviously, Sean, you've listened to the show for a while on your very long commutes. Yeah, as you've kind of thought about your perspective on horror and you think about you know how we tend to rate things on the show. How do you personally define a hack and a slash?

SPEAKER_02 6:03

A hack for me is is just a movie that you don't resonate with. It's a movie that you can watch and you get nothing out of. You don't get any feels. There's nothing that makes you, you know, feel scared or frightened or emotional or sad or happy. It's just kind of bland, it's boring. You could put it on in the background, it's just flat. A slash for me has to be a super good, like it's gotta be a good story that I can really get into. Like it invests me. I feel like it's gotta have uh all of the things like good, you know, the way they film it, the sound, the lighting, the acting, the story, that that to me is a slash, uh, you know, something that can be a little bit campy, but still something that is serious enough to enjoy the storyline. I think, you know, that's a slash for me. Is there an in-between? Probably, but uh, but that's my slash and hack.

SPEAKER_00 6:59

Okay, so like a bonus twist here then. Some of us tend to be hack by default until proven slash, and some tend to be slash by default until proven hack. Do you think you fall into either of those camps?

SPEAKER_02 7:14

Oh yeah, you know, that's uh that's tough, right? I I don't know if I'm gonna be necessarily as extreme as being like this is a hack until proven slash. Uh I think that I try to genuinely go into a film um with an open mind and and and just and just allow it to captivate me in the way that it was intended to, or not, I'm not sure. But uh I don't go into it thinking like, well, this movie's gonna suck until I think it's good, because that's that's a really tough expectation to meet, right? I feel like uh I feel like I'm just gonna go in with an open mind, watch the film, and and I'm gonna assess that afterwards. Did I have a good time? Great. If I didn't, probably not watching it again.

SPEAKER_01 7:56

It's tough for me because it depends on the film. I think I'm really forgiving when it comes to a movie. Like if you show me a good time, then then we're all good. And especially if you start well and finish well. That's the important part. It's kind of like listening to a song. You can kind of muddle your way through the middle as long as as long as I have something to remember it by. Um so I think that's a it's good to be forgiving about movies because it is a lot of work and it's a big, big wide audience that that has access to them these days. So you really you never really know how things are gonna land. But I think some of our teammates in the past have been a bit less forgiving, you know, and we've we've worn on each other. So now I can be a bit harsher sometimes, and I think the others can be a bit softer sometimes, and that's and it's kind of good that we blend a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 8:42

Yeah, and we balance each other out right in the middle. I tend to have a good time. I feel like when we there's one time where I calculated like the batting average of our hacks to slash ratio, and I was like far into the slash territory, and what that told me was like um doesn't take much for me to have a good time, and I don't know what that says about me. But Sean, I'm so glad you're here. I'm so glad you're here with us specifically for this episode. It's gonna be a blast, dear sweet listener. Sean is joining us to take on the task of assessing a film that recently released on Netflix. In 2021, news broke that Rob Zombie was developing a film he had relentlessly pursued making for more than 20 years. And despite being riddled with creatures, monsters, zombies, and all manner of horrific things, Zombie chose to frame the story as a PG comedy that explores the origin story of a beloved Transylvanian family that graced airwaves in a 1960s sitcom. Now the film takes us to the beginning of the family story, a time before they occupied the grounds of 1313 Mockingbird Lane. And this week we're talking about the 2022 rendition of the monsters. Now, Sean, given your love of the classic monsters and classic horror, you also mentioned that you have a love for the original TV series. What is it about the monsters that you find comforting?

SPEAKER_02 10:04

I grew up watching the monsters on TV with my grandmother and my mom as a child. This family of fright is is super nostalgic for me. It's not just because of the original series, but it just brings back memories of my childhood and and my grandmother and my mom, and it's just something that I can it's a comfort thing. I can throw this on and just it's it's probably like the equivalent of friends for somebody, right? Somebody can put on friends and go to sleep because they've seen every episode, and that's how I feel about the monsters. I can throw this on and go to sleep. It's just a super comforting thing for me to have.

SPEAKER_00 10:39

I love that. That sounds like a nice safety blanket.

SPEAKER_02 10:41

Definitely.

SPEAKER_00 10:42

So, Mac, have you seen The Munsters?

SPEAKER_01 10:44

No, and it is a bummer, right? I've seen clips from it, but I never really grew up watching it. I mean, obviously, it would have been in syndication around the time that I was a child, and it would have been probably available on some sort of channel, but I just never really had that much access to it. Um, I think later in life I had more access to it. Like right now, I've probably seen there's there's like literally one clip, I think, of the Munsters that like blows up on Instagram every now and then. Um, and it's it's talking about just like acceptance. And it's like here and there you'll see it every couple months kind of pop up. Uh, but I've never really I've never actually watched a full episode of the show.

SPEAKER_00 11:22

I am legitimately floored and shocked because I thought for sure you had seen this. Oh my gosh, okay. This is gonna be even more exciting than I expected. So I think another element to calibrate here is obviously you know understanding where we are in terms of connecting to the monsters, but then also connecting to Rob Zombie, two very separate things. So I love the monsters, absolutely love the monsters. I used to watch it all the time, especially with my grandfather. Uh so we watched Twilight Zone, we watched Andy Griffith, we watched The Monsters, and then sometimes the Adams Family and Zorro. Oh my gosh, the original Zorro series. So this brings back, I mean, you know, in a way that I can relate to you, Sean, like a really warm sense of nostalgia. But I remember it being this idea of authenticity and being comfortable in your own skin. I didn't look at it or frame it, and I probably would have been a lot closer to accepting myself as I was as a child had I like had the the force to like just consider things of this scale. But I loved looking back on the Monster series and just thinking about like how authentic they were, how comfortable they were with one another. And it reminds me of that line from The Craft, We're the Weirdos, Mr. And it's like it doesn't matter if they are the weird family, they see everyone else as the problem, and they see everybody else as um the the abnormal. And so I remember feeling very comforted by that. But then on the other side of this, I could not be further from a fan of Rob Zombie's work. I don't know about his music, so I cannot have an opinion there. I'm sure he's a great musician, but my first introduction to Rob Zombie was him doing what he did to Halloween 2007, right? And that was just not a good taste in my mouth. Tried again Halloween 2 2009, even worse, and then trying House of a Thousand Corpses, I really enjoyed it, but then it fell apart in the third act. So I thought, okay, maybe this is something that's gonna be a disaster for me and another bastardization of something that I love, or maybe because he's been fighting for this for so long, and maybe because he loves it so much, maybe this is where I can finally get into the circle of folks who like, yes, I like this thing that Rob Zombie did.

SPEAKER_02 13:45

Yeah, so I'm a huge Rob Zombie fan. So outside of the connection to the monsters itself, is since I picked up a white zombie record, I've been a Rob Zombie fan probably since I was like 11 or 12 years old. I love all of his music. I admittedly love most of his films. You know, there's a few that are kind of iffy. Uh I I gotta agree, I don't think his rendition of Halloween is my favorite. Uh I definitely this Halloween 2, I thought really just didn't hit the mark. I I didn't necessarily mind his rendition of the first Halloween, it was brutal, but that's another conversation, maybe. But I I know I know that Rob Zombie has been trying to make a Monsters reboot happen for over 20 years. I know he's been really working to make this happen, and I'm I'm glad he finally was able to make it happen. I know he's a lifelong fan of the original series. He grew up watching this, watching this series, and I know it's near and dear to his heart, so I was hoping that this was gonna be everything that we all want it to be.

SPEAKER_01 14:49

I'm closer to Chris on this, I'll say that, Sean. So I've I've seen a ton of like Rob Zombie films, never really listened to the music. Um, but it does remind me, I think when it comes to horror films, if you had to split into a couple different camps, when I was in probably let's say middle school, there was the people who were into punk who were more into the Ramones, and there were the people who were into punk who were more into the misfits, and some people who obviously who can enjoy both. Like, nothing wrong with that. I never really got into the misfits at all, just like didn't do it for me. Preferred the Ramones if I had to pick between the two. Um, so Rob Zombie to me like always felt super crust punk as a human being, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. We talked to Vero about it previously, and it's really interesting. Uh, but like watching his movies, it always just felt really grungy and gross, and I just never really enjoyed it. He always seems to make things really weird. Um, not weirdly, he just like makes things weird. And so when we're preparing to watch this, I mean I I don't have the background of seeing the show as a kid, um, but I'm familiar with it and I'm familiar with their dynamic. I've I told Chris like a bazillion times that the perfect Herman Monster already exists in Tiberell, and it's so strange to see these other people like on screen playing these characters. Um, but I I came into this like with an open mind thinking like if it's good, it's good, you know, because it's not a rated R grungy horror film, but I just still expected for Rob Zombie to make things weird.

SPEAKER_02 16:17

Yeah, definitely. Uh yeah, Rob Zombie is is infamously uh his movies are very redneck vibes, very just trashy. That he's admittedly said that that's what he resonates with when he's making these films. He says that he you know grew up, you know, as an evil Knievel fan and and just you know that kind of um childhood of just kind of you know poor, like kind of you know, vibes, just uh oddball kind of thing. Uh and so yeah, his his style of films definitely can be trashy and brutal and and very, very Texas chainsaw massacree and things like that. That's definitely um the majority of his films. Uh oddly enough, though, when you're talking about the Ramones, Rob Zombie and Johnny Ramon are really good friends, or were really good friends before he passed. Uh they and Johnny Ramone is a huge fan of horror. And they actually had a uh friendly competition, if you will, on who can obtain the most actual original horror movie posters. So they were really good friends. And I actually saw Rob Zombie tribute Johnny Ramon in Hollywood Forever Cemetery in Hollywood uh way back in the day. It was quite the uh quite the experience. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 17:42

I think the idea of like collecting classic horror posters sounds super up my alley, though, and that might be something that I need to look into. Walking into this movie, wondering, like, hey, which direction is this gonna go? I remember being on this roller coaster as things were being teased, as ideas were being released, we see the incredible detail of Mockingbird Lane, and just we get that shot of the house. We find out that Sherry Moon Zombie is Cass's Lily, and I'm like, ah, which is ironic because I actually again the first Rob Zombie film I ever saw was Halloween. I thought she was great in Halloween. I didn't realize that Sherry Moon Zombie being a bad actress was a thing until like way later on. But I wasn't ready for her to be Lily, and I'm like, how is this gonna go? But then the more you see, I was like, oh man, this looks like it's gonna be great in terms of like the aesthetic of it. But then we got that trailer, like the teasers were all great, but then we got the actual official trailer, and I know that there are things in that trailer that were in this movie, but it felt like two different experiences because that looked so amateur, and it felt painfully poorly acted. And I went into this thinking, like, man, this is gonna be a real bad time.

SPEAKER_02 18:58

Yeah, uh, I gotta say, when when I so when I found out this movie was being released, I was super excited, obviously. I didn't know what to expect, right? I didn't know if it was just gonna be another attempt at a reboot, uh, what the story was gonna be. The trailer definitely threw me and every and probably everyone off. When I first saw the trailer, I agree. I thought it was like, I don't know, this doesn't look too good. I was hoping for the best. Um it I think I think the trailer got a lot of heat. I think it created a lot of skeptics and doubters. Um, but uh but I I gotta say, with all that, I did have high expectations because I do know how near and dear the monsters are to Rob Zombie's heart. And so I I knew he was gonna do everything in his power to make this uh as best as he could. And you know what? I also had mixed feelings because I wanted the characters to stay true to the original series. I I just have a hard time seeing anyone top Fred Gwynn and Al Lewis or or or you know Yvonne DiCarlo. Like those were iconic characters, great actors. Fred and Al were like an Al Abbott and Costello, you know what I mean? So like topping those characters is gonna be tough. So I just didn't, I didn't know, I had mixed feelings. Like I wanted it, I want it to be good, but I don't know if it's gonna be good. So that that was me going into this film.

SPEAKER_01 20:17

So I I had that feeling, and I kept it with me while watching it, and it I think it honestly spoiled things for me a bit because the entire time, every time Herman Munster's mouth opens, I'm expecting to hear Fred Gwynn. And I think you have to to really get into this, you have to let go of that because it it will spoil it. I think you know it's it's a different actor, it's a different take, and that's and that's okay. Um, but it did lead to me just kind of feeling annoyed while watching it. There were some some vocal shrieks that were hard to get into, I'll say that. Lots of uh lots of breaks and and and high pitches, and it and it kind of it kind of ruined uh I think several scenes for me, but maybe that's my own fault as the audience for setting myself up for bad expectations because they're obviously not the same human beings. But I'll say while I watched it, the aesthetic is is otherworldly and almost cartoonish in in its vibrancy. It's amazing. So I think while you watch it, it you're just kind of left intrigue the entire time about like what you're gonna see, like what's gonna happen, what's gonna come onto the next to the next scene.

SPEAKER_00 21:23

Oh man, yeah. This movie starts off with a classic universal logo and the sound of the plane going around the globe. And I'm thinking, all right, Rob Zombie, pleasure to make your acquaintance again. We're starting off on the right foot. And I was waiting for a shoe to drop the entire time. I was really waiting to feel something negative, but then it just kept going in a direction that was aesthetically beautiful. I loved the vibrancy of it. I couldn't find many men in this movie that had long hair, and I was like, all right, this is already off to a different. Different start, right? But looking at this and looking at the tone of it, within the first few moments, you get this clue in that okay, this is gonna be campy. It's not just gonna be a comedy, and it's not gonna just be like a Rob Zombie as you would expect, kind of comedy, but this is gonna be tongue-in-cheek, it's gonna be camp, it's gonna be 60 sitcom shot in 2022. And I actually found myself really entertained, despite the fact that they are different people. There's something that this rendition of Herman Munster does, which is bringing his own unique voice to it while still nailing the important moments. Like Herman's shriek, like there's a point where he laughs in a pr in a very specific way that sounded like Fred Gwynn to me. And it's not identical by any means, but it's like the spirit of that laugh was recaptured. And Grandpa Must Munster, it felt like, okay, I could buy this, I could get into this. And he created a world that it didn't feel perfectly in sync with the original, but it felt like an entertaining time.

SPEAKER_02 23:07

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I gotta agree. I think the aesthetic of the movie was awesome. It felt like I was in like the best haunted house I've ever been in. The lighting, the stage, the just the just the the um set design, everything was just really, really amazing. I think it was uh just a really fun time all the way through. Like I think that uh I I was looking for moments to doubt some of the storyline or doubt some of the characters. And yeah, there were some hits, there were some misses, but uh but overall uh I was pleasantly surprised and I had a really good time the whole way through.

SPEAKER_01 23:45

You know, I we come back to this aesthetic thing, and that's honestly the thing that surprised me the most when getting into this, because you know, Chris and I have some very, very similar expectations when it comes to Rob Zombie. And when I started watching this, I'm like, okay, this could go a couple different ways. But as we get further in, there is this certain level of polish that is very much unlike other Rob Zombie pictures, and it was a it was a massive shock, I think, to me, because there's some use of color in this that is absolutely astounding. There's just like the makeup effects that we get, the the set, the set dressing. There is an absolute professionalism to a lot that happens here. And like you mentioned, it's like the best haunted house you've ever been to, but there's just so many details everywhere. And then somehow we're also going to merge that with kind of like 60s-specific film choices. You know, there's a there's a section where we're, I don't know if you want to call it a montage, but it's kind of a montage that you would do in the 60s, where it's just kind of like put the characters in front of a fake background. And I actually found that segment to be kind of delightful because it it's not super cheesy. It's it's cheesy enough. It's campy enough, and it's done in a way that like reminds you of like they would have, yeah, they would have had this on TV back then. This is how they would have done it. And I was like, again, delighted by that because it it was like a small minute, you know, it didn't last very long. It was just enough, but also balanced with, okay, we're gonna go into another scene when we're in real life, we're on a street somewhere or something, and just like some really great choices aesthetically and visually.

SPEAKER_00 25:23

Oh, a hundred percent. And I think the best part about that is the fact that it uses punctuation and it gives you this like this nostalgic feeling of creep show. And you think about how creep show did this to, you know, really simulate classic horror comics, and it felt like like two completely different concepts married from the same era, and I really, really enjoyed that. I think one of the things that surprised me was just how different this felt, even with seeing how so many people star in this movie who have been in previous Rob Zombie works that I didn't enjoy. The one of the main doctors in this film is in the versions of Halloween that I absolutely detest, right? And but it's it's amazing to see them disappear into a different role with a different direction, and to see Rob Zombie's vision come into a completely different arena and really do something that can adapt a different aesthetic, but also bring his own style and give a twist to something without corrupting the soul of it. And I really enjoyed that, but I will say there is something that is very easy. There are a number of things that I think people will absolutely be disappointed in this movie about, but the biggest thing for me is Sherry Moon's zombie because even in a film where everybody was already supposed to be overacting because of the tone of the movie, she was still overacting the overacting, and I could not believe her or buy her or want her as Lily, except for two moments.

SPEAKER_02 26:51

Yeah, definitely. Sherry Moon was definitely the biggest disappointment in in the film for sure, as far as the overacting goes and the mannerisms and all that stuff, just over the top. When you when you look at the original Lily, like that's that's not necessarily how that character goes. But yeah, I agree. Like Rob Zombie does this really weird thing where he it's like he has like his little his little band of friends and all of them end up in all of his movies. So that is interesting. Something that like uh I I don't know, maybe I just didn't pay attention to until I watched this one. I'm like, dang, he really just brought all his friends for a ride on this one, uh, which is which is really cool. Um, but this movie like embodies camp in horror for me. Like, if this was obviously like a darker film, that'd be one thing, but this is fun camp in horror. Like, if anyone out there was wondering, like it, you know, what what is like fun, really good camp? This is fun, really good camp in horror.

SPEAKER_00 27:48

I really wish Ryan was here to understand that and to like see the connection as she has struggled to define camp for many years on the show. The other element though that you bring up, right, is the fact that he keeps recasting the same people. And I kind of picked a bone with it initially, but then you hear his explanation, he's like, hey, I only had so long, I only had like three months to do this. I'm not gonna start over chemistry with everybody, right? These are people I know who know how to work together, they know how to get along, and I mean, still, I wish. Even if Sherry Moon Zombie was still cast, I wish he went a different direction with her character. Because if I could have even an ounce of how grounded she was in that movie brought into this Lily, I think it would have been far more successful.

SPEAKER_02 28:35

Yeah, definitely. That that being said, like that putting that to the side, I I think the characters in this movie are so likable and so in a in a way so relatable that you don't even notice they're monsters at times, right? Like you just get caught up in the film and it's just a good time. Uh there's there's definitely a lot of nostalgia here. There's I loved how much attention to detail Rob Zombie had throughout the film. I loved like the little Easter eggs of like the universal monsters sprinkled in and different things where he, you know, just just really, really good, tasteful kind of, you know, injections of things that you know influenced him over the years and and and uh and just m what he fell in love with.

SPEAKER_01 29:23

And it's fun for me because I'm I I mean obviously we do a lot of horror and we see some pretty gnarly stuff, but every now and then you need a good PG or even just a PG 13 kind of break from all of that. And so this is this is a nice change here, especially especially for Rob Zombie. It's a nice change because it's not it's not a scary movie, and it's not supposed to be a scary movie. And he could have gone that way. He could have said, like, I want to make it truly bizarre and truly like haunting and scary and see what these characters can really do, you know. Like, let's see what happens to Winnie the Pooh and that he's now that he's entered the public domain. But no, he was like, No, I I frickin' love the show and I wanna and I wanna pay homage to that. And yeah, we lose some fright factor because of that, but that's okay. That's the point. Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_02 30:05

Uh yeah, is it is this movie frightening? Not at all. Uh can I see like a small toddlington getting scared of this? Yeah, maybe, you know, if you have like your little five-year-old toddler with you, maybe some parts, but no, this is a fun movie. It's family-friendly, it's PG, it's outside of the norm for Rob. Um, but you know, I think uh what's what's really great is you know sticking to sticking to the originality of the characters in and of itself, but still being able to add some originality to um the origin story was was really, really cool, and being able to introduce a couple of new uh characters to us was really fun as well.

SPEAKER_00 30:47

Oh, I could not agree more. I actually really appreciate not only a PG Rob Zombie, this is my favorite Rob Zombie, but to to do basically the same thing he did with Halloween, which is give us a origin story nobody asked for, right? Like nobody cared what happened to Michael Myers when he was a kid to end up killing his sister Judith and then set him on the quest of becoming a uh to becoming a serial killer. But he also humanized Michael Myers. And here he gave us the origin story for Herman and Lily and the count and you know, Grandpa Munster. But did anyone need the origin story? I don't think any of us would have thought, okay, you know what I really want? A reboot of the monsters, but fuck Mockingbird Lane. I want to go back to Transylvania and see how this all came to be. And I I appreciate the step because it's two different applications of a similar concept, but this was done with so much reverence and love, and did it in a way that, again, I think captures the spirit and adds his own original elements to it. While also, I mean, I think in some franchises you would call it like fan service, but they were done so cleverly that it doesn't feel like it's gonna just hit you on the head, right? Like even the moments where we get the tin can man, uh, that felt like, oh man, this is a great callback. I absolutely love this. Uh, without it feeling like I'm just having this dangled in front of me, like, oh hey, remember this? What that does for me though, is make the ending feel really abrupt. And for all that this movie, I think, does well in some regards, it kind of loses it at the ending. It's kind of like momentum loss. It's kind of like, all right, now we're getting somewhere, and then all of a sudden it's over.

SPEAKER_02 32:38

Yeah, I think you took the words out of my mouth. Uh, when I thought about like the ending of this film, I I agree 100%. The movie felt like it ended abruptly. It and what I mean by that is like it was fun, but once it really took off and the movie ended, and I I just said, ah, damn, like I wanted to see more, and that's what it left me with. So yeah, I I agree a hundred percent.

SPEAKER_01 33:00

I I think the ending was was a bow. And I think it was like we've been putting all of these things into the into this box, all the prequelness is going into this box, and now we need a bow. And it was like, ah crap, we need a bow. That's kind of kind of what it feels like is like we need to we need to tie this together, and they do it in a way that's like, okay, this can be a singular thing and there's no other follow-up needed, and you just watch the TV show and you're like completely good to go. Um, or you know, kind of like some of the more recent like Star Wars prequels, where it's like we could slide in another one and it would still be in between the two and it could still work really well. But like you said, it's so abrupt, Cynthia, it kind of feels like we've tied the bow on before closing the box and wrapping it a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 33:40

You know, I guess what I said about this being basically what he did with Halloween, except for the monsters, it's unfair. Because I think realistically, if he were to have done what he did with this to Halloween, it would have been the exploration of Michael's childhood zooming up until the maybe the moment that he kills Judith and then the movie ends there, right? And then you don't even fucking know what happens in 1978 or with Lori or anybody else. That I think the the equivalence there and like taking about like where how far back do you go and what elements of the story do you explore, what elements of the characters do you explore? I think that's where this comes. And you know, Shawnee said you wanted more. I wanted more too, which I find weird because I feel like this there we're not gonna get more. I feel like this is gonna be it. I don't I can't imagine the Monsters 2 electric boogaloos coming around the corner or anything. But I am curious to see how this shakes out in our ratings. I think Sean, you've spoken pretty favorably about it, but before we actually get to rate this movie, Mac, it's Rob Zombie. We've talked about it being PG. How would you rate the gore score for this movie?

SPEAKER_01 34:47

Yeah, it's PG. It's it's pretty darn low, and it's on purpose, and there's nothing wrong with that.

SPEAKER_00 34:51

But what about the animal report?

SPEAKER_01 34:53

I had to think about it for a minute, but it it is indeed all good in the hood. In fact, as you mentioned, it actually might do a bit to empower some of the animals in the film.

SPEAKER_00 35:04

You love to see it. Now, let's go ahead and get into our ratings. The Monsters 2022, now streaming on Netflix. Was it a hack or a slash?

SPEAKER_02 35:11

Uh, this movie's a slash for me. Uh it was fun. It it stayed true to enough of the originality of the monsters while still making it, you know, tasteful and giving us a little bit more. I I can see a lot of people not liking this film. Uh, I think you really have to enjoy the fun, over-the-top, campy horror comedy or that 60s retro, 60s sitcom, campy vibe that the monsters you know brings uh to you. Uh, but that being said, I really enjoyed this film. Um, I thought that it was just fun. I had a good time. There was a lot of nostalgia throughout the film. If you're into the into the original Monsters series, if you're into classic horror in general or the history of horror or anything like that, uh, it honors the original series and the characters. Um, it's a slash for me. I'll definitely be adding this one to my annual Halloween horror movie list.

SPEAKER_01 36:08

That's that's some big uh, you know, some big props you're giving the movie there to add it to the annual cycle, I think.

SPEAKER_02 36:14

It's fun, you know. It's it's something that you have to add to the list, in my opinion. You know, you can't all have all the serious stuff. You gotta have some fun stuff, you gotta throw in the hocus pocus and that kind of stuff. You gotta have fun with it. And this is one of those fun movies you can sprinkle in there.

SPEAKER_00 36:28

This is his palette cleanser, Mac.

SPEAKER_01 36:30

Hey, yeah, everybody needs one, and that's and that's all right. Well, I'll say I mentioned it earlier, but I've never seen the monsters like completely. I never watched it as a kid. So I going into this, I had no idea if this would be close to the original. I don't know if it would be an improvement or if it was some kind of downgrade at all. Um, but what I do know is I could tell while watching this there was a lot of love put into it, and this was made by a fan of the series. Um, I could see this being somebody's new comfort movie. Like this, this is like their movie now that they're gonna watch when they need to chill out and cleanse their palate. Um, the hard part for me was it was kind of tough to watch in a few in a few parts, um, especially do some of the casting choices, I think. There was some just misplaced choices. And I think you mentioned Sherry Moon Zombie, and I know that she could have done a completely different character that I might have gotten, um, but that's not the way they went with it, and that's totally fine. Uh, just it was it was hard to get into for me, especially Herman Munster's casting. That was really tough for me to really like enjoy. I found that most of the other characters in the film were incredible, and many of them I really enjoyed watching, especially Grandpa Munster. Like I was I was 100% into that. But I just couldn't get into it that much, I think is the problem I had. I've never been a Rob Zombie fan. This is like the opposite, the complete opposite of everything else I feel like he's ever made, but still it ended up kind of being a hack for me. I think this is more of an audience issue and not an issue with the film itself.

SPEAKER_00 38:01

Okay, so no surprises, I dislike a lot of Rob Zombie's work, and I love the monsters, so this could have been very much a disaster, and it wasn't. When I consider the bar that Rob Zombie would have to meet or cross for this to have been a slash, it was pretty low. But I think walking with low expectations allowed me to just experience this movie with joy. And look, Rob Zombie, sir, I owe you an apology because clearly you know what you're doing, and it just took me until 2022 to see it after you wounded me as a 17-year-old with Halloween. So I'm glad we're on better terms now. But this movie is absolutely a slash, and it's a slash because it manages to capture the spirit and the soul of what the sitcom was and stay true to that, even when it's not popular too. Even though so many people who watch this movie are not going to be super jazzed about like the style of comedy. I know several people who cannot gel with the type of jokes in this movie. It happens to be palatable for me because I love older movies and because I like this old sitcom, right? Like that's charming to me. This gave me a family to root for. I love the count in this movie, and I actually found myself smiling in a Rob Zombie movie. So what the hell is this? It's for some people, it's not necessarily for others, but either way, it's kind of like palatable and an easy watch. I think that hits the sweet spot for me. Now, with that, the Munsters in 2022, now streaming on Netflix, has earned two slashes and one hack. Now, you can find this movie online, so go check it out. Then join us in the second half so we can dive into Max Hack together. We'll see you in a bit.

SPEAKER_01 40:10

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SPEAKER_00 41:57

Just a good old comedic bonk and a little hole in the skull.

SPEAKER_02 42:01

So quick. Like it surprisingly just took that zombie out. Like it didn't, I feel like not even hard enough to get to the brain, but alright.

SPEAKER_00 42:08

And you know what? I feel like he didn't quite deserve it. He seemed like a very cordial young man. He was just rolling up there with his briefcase, really looking to do business, to bid greetings and salutations. And that's the thanks he gets. The disrespect in his household.

SPEAKER_01 42:23

Terrible. The thing that bothered me about that the most is it was so quick, but I did love the little quip at the end of Oh my or something like that as he falls to the ground. Yeah. The Von Rathbones died. Both brothers uh died together.

SPEAKER_00 42:36

Yeah, and you know, Shecky did have a dramatic death that was revealed, and he obviously died like just hours after his brother did. But you know, Mac, the uh the death that really took it for me was one that was barely mentioned. And it's our boy, Count Orlock, eaten by rats. So we find out on the cover front page of a newspaper.

SPEAKER_02 43:00

So fitting, right? I mean, he loved his rats so much.

SPEAKER_00 43:03

And clearly they loved him, but it really makes you wonder what kind of relationship he actually had with the rats. Like, he has a few rats that you know we see pictures of. Is it kind of like a Siegfried and Roy where you know you can think that you're taming the beast, but the beast is really taming you the entire time and it'll attack whenever it wants to? Is it kind of like the creature from Nope? I'm a little sad because I think within the whole runtime of this movie, I actually grew fond of Count Orlock.

SPEAKER_02 43:30

Count Orlock had some Nasferatu vibes for sure. I was reading, I was reading like a review where somebody referenced Count Orlock to to Voldemort, and I'm like, what? That's clearly Nasferatu. Like, I don't know what planet you're on, but that's I mean, other than him being bald and creepy, like, no, this is clearly a Nasferatu vibe.

SPEAKER_01 43:51

But also he had a schnazz, and Voldemort does not have a Schnaz.

SPEAKER_00 43:54

So Famously, no schnazz. Definitely.

SPEAKER_01 43:56

So not much to look at gore wise in this film, but I think there's a lot to look at Look at in general. And one of my favorite things to look at just aesthetically here, the color. The color of this film was insane. So that we have we have like the lighting in the old house when we're still in Transylvania. We have the saturation we get, just like the level of green that we get with Herman Munster. So the colors of the makeup were amazing. Even though they're different from the TV show, I think it really worked. Um, it just gave it a very light-hearted feel, almost cartoony, and I and I think it was the greatest choice they could have made for it.

SPEAKER_02 44:35

Yeah, yeah, I gotta, I gotta agree. I loved the colors in this movie. I loved the the just the lighting as well in the movie. I didn't like the color renditions of the films made um you know throughout the years. Um so I wasn't sure if I was gonna like it in color. I was I was low-key hoping it was gonna be black and white, but that being said, I was not mad at it at all. It was beautiful, it was super beautiful to watch. It was um very nice. Like I said, I think I alluded to before, is that it just had like feelings and vibes of being in like one of the coolest haunted houses ever. Every time they showed the count's uh dining room, like I want to live in that dining room. Like, I want that to be my dining room. I want to eat dinner there every night.

SPEAKER_00 45:23

Honestly, it'd be so dramatic. It is a beautiful place to eat. The set design in this movie is so damn good, and I think even with the color, it's one of those things where you you consider how vibrant or rich a color has to be to even come through in black and white, right? Like you you think about just like how uh different tones are are picked up on camera, and I was really, really excited to see how vibrant this could be while still feeling like the monsters. And Sean, I had no idea that there were other renditions film-wise of the monsters for me. It was just the 1960s-ish sitcom, and that's it. So when I was like looking this up on YouTube out of curiosity, after you mentioned this, I see there's like a blue Herman Monster. No, sir, Herman Monster's not blue. That's not how this is supposed to work. In my mind now, I watch the original series and I'm thinking, oh no, he's obviously bright green, obviously. Like this is the guy. Um, I think in addition, though, to the color and even the set design, I just love the wardrobe and design of all the of these characters. I mean, Herman Muster had some great outfits, and for as much as I think Sherry Moon Zombie overacted her role, I think she looks great as Lily. And the count is so spot on. It took me a minute and I realized like, man, the count in the sit in the sitcom doesn't have a mustache, but this feels like a younger version of the count, and it it fits so well together.

SPEAKER_02 46:58

Yeah, absolutely. Funny enough, the pilot episode for the original Munsters series was shot in color. Um, it also it also featured like an entirely different cast. I think Joan Marshall was the first wife of Herman Munster, but her name was actually Phoebe instead of Lily. There was a gentleman named Happy, I don't know if it's German or German, as the werewolf son Eddie, and Marilyn Munster was meant to like depict Marilyn Monroe. After the pilot, they switched a lot, right? Like so they switched to black and white because they didn't, I guess it they didn't want to spend the extra $10,000 to shoot in color at the time, which is crazy to think about now. Um, but they changed like they changed Butch Patrick to the role of Eddie because they wanted a more like leave it to beaver vibe in that uh character. And they they they subbed in Yvonne DiCarlo because they thought that uh Joan Marshall was they was giving off like way too many um Morticia Adams vibes.

SPEAKER_01 47:59

That's a brilliant choice to make because you want to kind of stand out from what else is out there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:04

Yeah, let me just say I was 32 years old when I realized that Eddie Munster is a werewolf and not a vampire. I'm 32 right now. There are episodes of the Munsters where he's howling at the moon, but for some reason I still put it in my head, like, well, obviously he's Lily's son, so he's a vampire who's probably like also dabbling in werewolf shit. I just did not dig mentally like very deep into the lore or the construct of that, and I feel very foolish now. But I've also always referenced Eddie Munster because I have a Widow's Peak and I hate my Widow's Peak. And I feel like every time I see my Widow's Peak in the mirror, I feel like I'm fucking Eddie Munster.

SPEAKER_01 48:44

You gotta just you gotta just roll with it, Chris. Accept your hair for what it is.

SPEAKER_00 48:47

No, no, I'm it's gonna be trimmed forever. I absolutely hate it. You know, for all the the glitz and glamour of this movie aesthetically, there are so many amazing scenes to pick from. And I know that I'm I'm you know, I'm sure that Sean, Matthew, you'll have a couple good ones yourselves, but I'm gonna say that one of my favorite scenes is before Herman Munster is really even introduced, and it's actually Lily and Orlock's date. Again, Sherry Moon Zombies, her her performance is outrageous, but I love being charmed by Count Orlock, and he's like, Do you like rats? And he's just so excited about it and wanting to share his joy. But then we get the disco vampire dance song, and it's like, let me tell you this Count Orlock knows who he is. Count Orlock says, I dare you to love me in the skin that I'm in. And if you won't have me in my disco vampire, then you don't deserve me at all.

SPEAKER_01 49:40

That was such a what we do in the shadows kind of vibe with with Count Orlock.

SPEAKER_00 49:45

That must be why I love it so much, because it was one of the funniest moments in the movie to me. Because not only does he finish the dance, but he also finishes off with like a little confetti pop, as if this is his mating ritual, as if this is how he gets her. And then she leaves and he's like, Okay, unbothered. Clearly has regular dates, is always finding someone uh to take out on the town to find some company. He's an underrated MVP of this movie for me, and I think the charm in that and to see how much care was put even into the background characters, you know, something that I think, you know, correct me if I'm wrong, Sean, but I think Count Orlock is just kind of like a mentioned in the series and never really like super explored. So I love seeing that come to life.

SPEAKER_02 50:27

Yeah, definitely. There there's a there's a there's a lot of like mentions to you know origin stories and things that we don't get to see to come to life, which is really cool to see in this film. Um, but yeah, I have to agree that scene is really awesome. Um, it it's just that's a relatable scene, right? Everyone's been on that kind of date where you're just like, ugh, like why am I here? How did I make this decision? I made a mistake, how do I get out of this kind of thing? It's so relatable. And again, that is exactly why this movie is so successful that the series was so successful, because you don't even notice that you're watching a bunch of monsters do weird oddball things because it's so relatable.

SPEAKER_00 51:06

Yeah. And I, oh my gosh, even how silly it was when they're kind of like coming in at each other and circling each other like stray cats about to fight. But I think what really sold it for me, and this is kind of going back into like the set design of this film and how fucking beautiful it is. There are so many signs in the background in that alley. One of them says The Raunchy Raven, another one says live dead girls. Are you fucking kidding me? The comedy that's baked into every fiber of this movie. It may not be comedy that you're into. I totally get it, I respect it, but for me, it tickled my fancy.

SPEAKER_01 51:40

I loved some of the comedy they did, and and my favorite scene has to do with the physical comedy that they added in. Because I think a lot of sitcoms early on started out being successful because of physical comedy. Because I think when you got a little bit too highbrow, um, things started to get a bit boring. And so that's probably why I love Modern Family because there's a lot of physical comedy in it. But in the hotel room in Paris, when the count shows up and we get the door open and the thank you and the door open and the tip, and then eventually the door open after the realization of who's there. Utterly freaking brilliant. I loved that exchange so much, and that's the kind of thing I'm here for. Some of the like the jokes that we get, even if they're dad jokes, that's fine. Um, like we need that, especially if you're basing things off of a sixty sitcom. But I think the physical comedy is what truly sells it. And I wish it was a little bit more of that, like that like wit, because that was so clever, and I need I need more of that.

SPEAKER_02 52:34

Yeah, yeah, I I agree. I think um it, I think it was tough. I think it was tough specifically to bring I think what you're what you're wanting uh in that uh with the characters of Herman and the Count because we're going back in time, we're going to an origin, we're going to a place where the Count doesn't want anything to do with Herman. So they actually have this kind of standoffish vibe, like he's trying to get rid of Herman, he doesn't want anything to do with him. Whereas uh, you know, in the series, you get that, like like, you know, they you get that kind of pairing that's just unmatched, you get that Abbott and Costello vibe, you get that beautiful companionship throughout the series that you know you're not able to see in this um film in that same way just because of you know where the story takes you, which you know it is what it is. I think um, I think my you know, one of my favorite scenes for sure, and it was short and sweet, but it's the introduction to the count. I think just just seeing the count rise from the crypt waking, you know, and and it's just so cool. It's like it's it's eerie, it's impactful, it's beautiful, it's vibrant, and then all of a sudden the back goes out, and you get that campy comedy right away, and it just like you know, you it just hits all the feels. It was such a really great um element. I loved that scene. Um, my my follow-up would be like the Halloween rave at the end. Like that was just like super fun, super cool. Like I wanted to be there. I yeah, super, super, super cool.

SPEAKER_00 54:08

Oh my gosh, such a good scene, the Halloween rave. And then it also reminds me of an episode of the original series where they go to a Halloween party, they're invited, it's one of like Marilyn's suitors who finally like convinces his parents to invite Lily and Herman over. Obviously, they are kind of like dressed up themselves in relatively normal costumes, and then there's a guy who's dressed up as someone who looks very similar to Herman, and they end up winning the costume contest, and it just felt like a nice little callback to that moment. And man, when we get the introduction to the count, we also get the introduction to Igor, who oh my gosh, it was so cool to see him as a human. I came to appreciate it even more when he finally does turn into a bat because he in in the series he's only ever a bat. So I was a little thrown off initially, but it was a cool touch.

SPEAKER_01 54:59

What's exciting for me about that is we get not just an Igor, we get Doctor Who, right? So we get Sylvester McCoy, who also plays Radagast the Brown, if you're into the Hobbit at all, who is also a physical comedian, and what an amazing choice to play Igor, even in the scene where he's turning into a bat, just like the eye movement of like processing what's about to happen, the whole way through, especially, you know, the the introduction to the account, we get that whole back snapping scene, just fantastic. Everything with Igor there was was amazing.

SPEAKER_02 55:32

Yeah, I I loved, I I I agree, I loved seeing Igor as if he was a human, a human. Uh I I thought, you know, like you know, growing up watching the show and just knowing Igor as you know, the bat flying around, I was like, oh, this is interesting. Like, how are we gonna get this character to the bat? And I was I was wondering if we were gonna get to see it. I'm glad we did get to see it. So that was that was really awesome for sure.

SPEAKER_00 55:58

Yeah, I think there's so much that even goes into some of the supporting characters in this movie. Obviously, we've talked at length about Herman, the Count, Lily, etc. But I was not expecting Lester. I really enjoyed Lester, like a nice little con man wolf, and really loved that. But then we have Elvira. That was amazing. She plays the realtor at the end of the movie when that actually guessed them into Mockingbird Lane. And I had to like do a double take when I first saw the movie. I was like, no fucking way. No fucking way. Famed lesbian Elvira, let's go.

SPEAKER_01 56:32

When I was looking at the cast while watching this, just kind of like keeping track of where we were and who's and who's who. I I was kind of shocked. I I was curious, like, do they know each other? Are they friends? Was this like another fan casting? Like, hey, I love horror, you're involved. Like, like, let's let's just do this, let's get you into a spot in some in some way. I'm curious like how that pairing happened, but like her delivery of that character was fantastic, especially when it was time to actually get the house and she's like, it's yours, like whatever you want, it's all yours. Like her, like her version of a realtor was so enjoyable, especially with the makeup on.

SPEAKER_02 57:05

Absolutely. There, there were some like really that so I think I don't know if they're the only two like surviving members of the original cast, but we did get to see some hidden cameos throughout the film. So I don't know if you caught that, but like Butch Patrick was the voice of the Tin Man robot that married Herman and Lily. Uh so we got to see that that was really cool. We also got so Pat Priest, who played the second iteration of Marilyn in the in the original series, was the um was the airline host. Uh so that you know, you didn't get to see the characters themselves or the or the actors or actresses themselves, but you did get to they did get a part in the film, which I thought was really uh really awesome.

SPEAKER_00 57:48

Oh, I love that so much. It reminds me of you know, like Black Christmas, the 2006 remake. I did not enjoy at all, but I did enjoy that they brought in Andrea Martin. And I love seeing Legacy carried on uh from one original film or or concept to another. We kind of like we also got a cameo from PJ Souls in Halloween 2018. I did not catch either of those cameos at all for this movie. That's really exciting.

SPEAKER_02 58:15

So, yeah, k character-wise, right? Um, I you know, we've talked like Lily's not my favorite. It's not it's probably not most people's favorite just because of the way Sherry depicts the character, but the count for me was the absolute best character or or variation of the character in this film. I thought that, you know, grandpa, as as I know him from the series, was the truest to the character in every single way, and and not in a bad way. Like I didn't think like, you know, I didn't think like it was it took away from Al Lewis's performance. I I think that it just honored Al Lewis's version of the count in such a good way, from the visuals to the way that he talked to the way that he moved and all the different things. So favorite character throughout the film was the count. I just loved it.

SPEAKER_01 59:06

I think the difference for me is you can you can do this in the way that's fan service, or you can do this in a way that shows you that you're a fan. And this is one of those cases where this is a fan making a movie, making a love letter, if you will. And it reminds me of like comic book movies, because I've seen basically every Marvel movie. There's a couple of the recent ones I might be missing out on, but like when we get to Iron Man, we see a movie made by a fan. And so I think that's powerful because you make some great casting choices, but the other choice you make is you make the best part of this movie, the story. Because even though I didn't like relate to the movie, I didn't relate to the TV show, I didn't have that nostalgia. I kept watching and being interested in it because of the story, because it is just kind of a good story, and it's also a great way to prequel the TV show. Because yeah, how do they end up together? How do we get to the point where this couple has kids or they end up in like the US and not Transylvania? And there's like a bazillion ways it could have gone to get there, and this I think was the right choice.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:07

Man, there are so many awesome things to pick from this movie. You know, Sean, earlier you mentioned the count and his depiction being one of the best parts. And we think about just the accuracy and the spirit and the soul, and you know, I've I've I've heaped a lot of praise onto this movie, and it's probably not the slashiest slash that I'm ever gonna give. And I feel like this is gonna definitely gonna be one of those episodes where like a lot of people are gonna have a hard disagreement with me in terms of of what this movie is. But when I think about having rated it a slash and now having to consider like what the absolute worst part of this is, I want to go light on Sherry Moon Zombie, even though I do think she has a singularly worst performance in the entire film. The worst part for me is how we get from A to Z and how rushed it feels at the end, and really just this feeling of like a complete cut in momentum. I feel like there are ways to end a film where you see that you're clearly set up for something else, but it feels intentional and it feels structured and well thought out and organized. And here it's kind of like nothing really happens. The one major conflict is the fact that they lose the castle, but even that's not that big of a deal because they end up moving to Hollywood, and all of a sudden Lester conveniently hands them a check because now they're rich. You know what I mean? Like it just didn't feel like there was a lot of suffering in this movie, which I don't think you need true suffering in a PG comedy, in a PG comedy, but there definitely like were no stakes to be raised where I felt like I was wondering where this is going.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:46

Yeah, I mean, so so like the the worst part for me outside of obviously what I've kept saying with the Lily Munster performance, uh really a couple of things, right? Like I really wanted to see the introduction of Eddie. Um, and that didn't happen. I also wanted to see way more of them in 1313 Mockingbird Lane, right? Like I they it felt like he put so much time, effort, money, energy, whatever, into building that house in that neighborhood, and that's all he kept posting about on Instagram and online. And and we saw like what 20 minutes of it, if that. I loved the origin story. I loved seeing how they all got there, but like I wanted to see more of that because another like really favorite part of mine was when they wake up the next morning after Halloween and he walks outside and sees everyone's like back to normal, and he's like horrified. He's like, Oh my god, like what's gonna be runs back into the house, you know what I mean? Like, I just wanted to see more of it, and so now it left me uh hoping for a sequel that we're likely not gonna see, but it's so hard to believe that he would put so much time and energy into that house and only use only use 20 minutes of time. Tough part for me.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:00

We did end up getting, I think, as someone who does not watch the TV show and has not seen it a bazillion times, one of the most monstrous parts of it, which is Lily's monologue at the end about like acceptance of their neighbors. When we got to that stage, I was like, oh, okay, this is what I thought the show was. And it was surprising to I mean, it was good to see it coming from her, but it was surprising that it wasn't coming from Herman Munster because his character was so different from the Herman Munster that we that we get when he's older.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:27

There were some like minor holes in the storyline that kind of threw me off just a tad, right? And so if if we're talking about attention to detail, uh, you know, Herman's hands, right? Herman's hands were like, I guess in this film, you know, from from the the p the famous pianist, right? But in the in the series, his hands were like ugly and super hairy, and like to the point that like his doctor, who was famously like really like really couldn't see without his glasses and somehow never had his glasses. So every time Herman went to the doctors, he would think that he had like his little dog with him. That's how hairy his hands were. But this, you know, in this film, his hands weren't hairy, so that little detail, I don't know, threw me off, probably wouldn't throw 99% of the population off. And and then something something that also threw me off was like uh so in the series, Herman and Lily constantly mention like honeymooning on Devil's Island, right? And so the film didn't really, I guess maybe it worked out, but uh it to me it's the way the film, you know, maybe I gotta watch it again, but the way that it kind of ran through is that they were falling in love and going to all these places. It didn't really feel like they were honeymooning there. It felt like they were honeymooning in France, but now that we kind of like established that, you know, Devil's Island is like off the coast of France or something like that, then maybe it makes a little more sense, but that threw me off initially as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:55

Sean, I think if if I were someone who had watched the series to the extent that you have, and to do so so frequently just throughout life, that would absolutely bother me too, especially since it's like changing the core canon of that storyline. And because you're rebooting it but also making a prequel, you need to preserve some specific things. But I do think that this movie, like its original series, is ripe for a rewatch. I've already watched it twice, and I found so much that I really enjoyed the second time around, like the little note about Count Orlock being being eaten by rats. There's so much to enjoy that while I don't know if I'll watch it every single October, I do agree that this is a great mix for future Halloweens.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:43

Yeah, definitely. Rewatchability for sure. I I already said like I'm adding this to my annual like Halloween horror movie list. Like this for me is definitely gonna be something that I watch every October just because I think it's fun, it gives you the feels and the vibes of the spooky season. Uh and and uh it's just it's just it honors the original series enough. It it modernizes it enough while sticking true to the 60s retro campy sitcom vibes that um that I just really really enjoyed and I'll definitely be watching this one again.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:19

I don't know that I can speak to the rewatch value as highly as as both of you have um but I will say that I my wife and I both like to like watch old sitcoms and so there is technically a chance that we would end up watching the original monsters. It's possible. And if that were the case that we ended up watching that I could see us like capping it off with this. Because I think that would that would definitely add value to this for me since I don't have that strong connection that you both do.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:47

I love that so much and I desperately in my heart of hearts hope that you do watch that it is streaming on Peacock so you can watch uh I think there's only two seasons of the show but they're long seasons. You can watch both of them on Peacock right now. I'll add a link in the show notes if you haven't seen it. Now typically we don't do factor fiction for new releases but we'd be remiss if we didn't you know exploit Sean for all the knowledge that he has and Mac I'm so curious to see what kind of value Sean can give you when we consider the like the origin of the monsters in the series itself.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:22

Yeah absolutely so yeah I got I got a couple fun facts I sprinkled some in throughout like the the the episode here but um so oddly enough well one yes you're right there's two seasons um originally went for four decades of reruns um before cycling back around I'm not sure exactly when it started cycling back around but that's pretty pretty incredible. Fun fact the creator of Bugs Bunny presented the idea of a cartoon family of monsters that actually like sparked this idea so this led to like Universal going for a concept of a Frankenstein monster working as a mortician with a family of ghouls. So that's like where this Munster's family was born. And you know I alluded to kind of like the uh pilot episode and you know switching up some of the characters. So like going into from that pilot episode into what was like the debut episode you see like Marilyn Munster, right? Who is like what the the niece or whatever to the family but she's like the normal one in the family so they're always talking about her as like oh she's you know she's she's just not as fortunate as us you know uh and they just make constant jokes about like you know how she can't keep a date because every time she brings someone home they get scared away and they're like I don't know what it is about me kind of thing. But uh interesting fact about the original um Marilyn Munster who was played by Beverly Owen she she fell in love in New York right uh she didn't want to do the casting for this um but she was kind of like talked into it so she flew out to LA did the casting it was kind of like a thing of like I'll just do it it what's it gonna hurt and it led to her getting the part and I guess throughout the entirety of her career as Marilyn Munster she was miserable. You would never know it on the show but she was miserable to the point of like breaking down and crying constantly uh and the producers would not let her out of her contract so this actually led to Fred and Al Lewis so Fred Gwynn and Al Lewis literally just going to the producers and saying listen you can see she's clearly unhappy if you don't let her out of her contract we're walking off this show. And they literally let her off the out of the contract and in comes Pat Priest. So I thought that was cool and and especially probably in a time where like they didn't have to do that or care about that but it speaks to the integrity of those two individuals which I think was a really cool fact to throw in there.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:51

Oh I love that so much. I think now of two things when I think of Fred Gwynn I think of sometimes dead is better and I think of him sticking up for uh for Maryland. That's beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:02

Yeah yeah last fun fact uh I'll throw one more at you Fred Gwynn actually had to keep an air hose hooked up inside his costume to keep himself cool throughout shooting which is interesting but like it's actually really serious because he he was so hot and lost so much water weight. He lost so much weight doing that role that like it was unhealthy. Like he literally could not keep weight on. So I can't even imagine how uncomfortable that would have been uh to try and deal with day in and day out.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:32

I feel like I need one of those air hoses with me always and I I'm not even wearing a costume you know okay Herriman thank you so much Sean for sharing all of that and there's so much more that you can dig into in the original series and there's so much more that we have to say on this and the can the conversation's gonna continue. Obviously you listening now it's the spooky season it's October what better place for you to come hang out and talk about horror movies than in our own Discord server? You know as of right now the Munsters has earned two slashes and one hack but that's only three out of like a normal five person panel that we have so we need your opinion on this. We want to know where you stand. Did you enjoy PG Rob Zombie? Is this your vibe? Let us know. You can join in on the conversation by hanging out with us in that Discord server that I just mentioned. You can click the link in our show notes to sign up and you can even see which movies we have lined up for watch parties the rest of the month.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:27

If you've enjoyed listening to this episode consider joining the new Blood Drive and becoming one of our patrons. Visit patreon.com slash hackerslash to receive our limited edition 2022 anniversary poster and enjoy more of the show with early access extended episodes bonus content and live shows. Thanks again to our friends at Calm Troops for making our 2022 spooky season possible we'll see you next time folks and remember a man's more than the sum of his parts catch you on the flip side okay watching this movie makes me think about some of the classic universal monsters and who would win if they were put into a cage and made to fight so we've got a couple rounds here and we'll each give our thoughts and then Sean you can tell us why we're wrong or why we're right or maybe just like what your opinion is but number one Chris you can go first here. Who would win between Dracula and Frankenstein's monster?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:27

I think Dracula is more vicious than Frankenstein's monster. However I should also specify that I have seen several different iterations of Dracula but never Bella Legosi's Dracula so there's probably a lot here that I'm missing but I feel like you know Frankenstein's monster is just a misunderstood creature who's probably real chill right I feel like Dracula would just have to like what shock him somehow stop his heart beating etc I feel like it would be kind of like taking uh a knife to taking a gun to a knife fight I feel like Dracula would just like absolutely wreck Frankenstein's monster.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:06

Interesting so I think about it from like the brute force aspect because in this context I feel like Frankenstein's monster is kind of like the Hulk and has that strength and legit could just like pop out a neck pin and shank Dracula right through the heart and it would be game over. But but Dracula could also like turn into a bat or something and just like evade him so he's sly. So but I feel like eventually you know the big oaf is just gonna smash he's just gonna Hulk smash and take him out somehow.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:36

Yeah but then the neck bolt is not even wood it's a bolt so it's not gonna do much against Dracula.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:43

Doesn't that count?

SPEAKER_02 1:13:44

I don't know yeah I mean so Dracula is is cunning right Dracula's got like premeditated like moves and maneuvers. I don't know how vicious you know like uh brutal um you know Bella Legosi's Dracula was portrayed but he was very um cunning very kind of uh evasive Dracula is is definitely would be my pick I I agree I think Frankenstein's monster right I I think yes brute force lots of strength but not a lot of um not a lot of thinking there right and so like if if by chance he happened to get his hands on Dracula there's a chance there yeah uh but Dracula uh you know moves swiftly Dracula can think and um plan out his attack um and I think over although the the interesting thing would be can Dracula kill by biting Frankenstein's monster because does Frankenstein's monster even have like legitimate blood or would the bite actually in turn kill Dracula? It's actually now that we're talking about it's pretty interesting to think about. Huh well damn that completely shifts things I still go Dracula like for sure I think being a tactical mind would far outweigh just being really really strong but huh could you imagine a scenario in which Dracula bites Frank Frankenstein's monster and then the monster becomes a vampire that'd be fucking wild that would be wild yeah super wild I uh I don't know I mean I I have to agree I think overall Dracula will find a way to win but it would be interesting you know if he does go for the neck maybe he chips his his fang on the bolt and now he's got like he's fangless Dracula does it grow back I don't know uh there's all kinds of scenarios that could happen um if if Frankenstein's monster was to turn into a vampire if that's even possible that would be like the ultimate monster I don't I don't know if you're if you're taking that dude down.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:51

I do wonder if like the the seams would start to like heal up as a vampire you know just start to regenerate a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:59

So I'm gonna say no but I'm not gonna say no for a good reason. I'm gonna credit the great Stephanie Meyer from Twilight Lore. Oh no I know oh no because those vampires had scars that were not perceptible to the human eye but were perceptible by the to other vampires and I remember there's like a specific moment when after Bella spoiler becomes a vampire um she can suddenly see all of Jasper's war scars. So I don't know that they would heal I think they would just look slightly different.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:31

Okay so we'll move on to number two then it's because of Twilight I get it gotta move on from Twilight.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:36

Okay so this one the creature from the black lagoon versus the mummy I don't know what your thoughts are but I'm gonna I'm gonna go ahead and just jump in here and just say that I I just don't I'm not seeing a real way for uh I mean it depends on which stage the mummy's at right like is is the mummy just like right like you know is it is it just mummified does that has he like regenerated at all?

SPEAKER_00 1:17:04

Creature is predominantly in the water so if it's out of water I don't I don't know is it gonna be in its element I'm not sure and and the creature is is a lover that that movie's a love story so I don't I don't know how vicious that dude is oh yeah it's like the shape of water okay yeah yeah I would actually go the mummy I think now when I when you first said this and posed this question Mac I thought well the mummy wouldn't have a chance of surviving in in water right I'm just thinking about this like a little shriveled up decrepit corpse um and then the uh the wrappings on the mummy just becoming very tattered kind of like wet toilet paper that'd be very uncomfortable obviously it's not that's not the same material at all but um I would go supernatural mummy over just an organic being that happens to be a monster I think supernatural would win out for me.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:59

Okay but if we look further into the future at the um Brendan Fraser mummy right organic beings there are able to take take them down so yeah but this one is a fish.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:12

Yeah that's that's is that accurate it's not Brendan Fraser so I don't know I I yeah this is gonna come down to like home turf advantage like uh uh where where is this fight happening is this uh you know think of like a mortal combat scene is this is this happening in the water or is this happening like in the desert?

SPEAKER_00 1:18:32

Oh dude if creature from the black lagoon gets dropped into a tomb beneath a pyramid obviously he's gonna shrivel up before it could even be a fight you know what I mean it's not gonna last definitely that is literally the the thought I had like was this is that stage select in Mortal Kombat.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:50

That's that's that's what this would come down to.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:53

A hundred percent okay but which one has the spikes at the bottom where if you do an uppercut they get impaled that's what that's the map I'd want to play in that's that's gotta be the one for the mummy though.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:03

There's no spikes under that water.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:04

Yeah unless you've got some really spiky like coral or something like that under there.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:09

Those river rocks that cut your feet oh there you go yeah oh no I don't like that there was um was it reptiles map that was just like pools of acid oh yeah that was so fucking good I fucking love Mortal Kombat.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:22

Okay so final one the wolf man versus the invisible man. Okay so the invisible man obviously has the upper hand in terms of being cunning here because it can't be seen just take those wrappings off you're good to go but does a werewolf need to see someone in order to just go berserk? And I think that's it's the the strength there is it just goes into berserk mode it doesn't matter where you are it's game over. And there's like a heightened sense of smell right it's not quite it's not quite Dracula's like you know radar ping as a bat or anything but there's definitely the ability to probably sniff it out. He's gonna he's gonna find him.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:02

Okay so this poses the question then is the invisible man in fact the odorless man? Like I feel like and again I've I've ranted about this in the past how movies tend to ignore the sense of smell and then when they finally acknowledge the sense of smell it's kind of dramatic and cheesy whatever. But I do wonder as someone who has not seen any invisible man property ever is is uh the invisible you know dude immune to the smell because if that's the case then I think werewolf has the advantage I'm sorry if that's the case then I think he has the advantage over the werewolf because all he needs is to sneak up and have like depending on lore a silver bullet however you vanquish werewolves but if the werewolf has some kind of sense in their favor then I would give the advantage to werewolf.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:50

No that that's a that's good insight for sure. I'm not sure it's been a long time since I've watched the invisible man so I I'm almost certain that they don't um they don't elude to any odors uh but I think I would err on the side of Mac here. I think the werewolf is gonna have that heightened sense of smell it's definitely more vicious than the invisible man unless unless this dude just was covered in like silver bullets or something you know silver stakes or something like that. So but I gotta give it to the werewolf for brutality factors for the the heightened sense of smell that wolves have uh you know that killer instinct that just comes natural to them I gotta say the the the wolf man's got to have that one this brings back memories of like this interesting commercial idea that I had a long time ago uh for Coors Light. I don't know if I'm allowed to say that on here.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:46

Yeah whatever go for it.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:47

Hopefully this doesn't get taken now I have this idea of like a party happening right and like everyone's chilling having a good time and this werewolf just like bursts through the door and everyone's freaking out and this dude just cracks open a coors light and throws it at the werewolf. He takes a sip and turns back into a man and everything's cool. And it's like you know that's it. I mean that's got I can't believe that hasn't been done as a Halloween ad or something like that yet but it's probably gonna get taken now.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:15

That's a Snickers commercial right there. That's what that is.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:18

Well true yeah yeah but there's something there with the silver of a coors light right yeah they call it the silver bullet oh yeah yeah okay Sean I think we just make that commercial I'm sure at some point there's gonna be some competition for some Super Bowl ad and I think we can do that. Definitely let's do it Mac can be the werewolf.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:35

I'm ready to go not quite hairy enough I need to grow my beard out more.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:38

Yeah growing hair and drinking beer Mac the werewolf.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:42

You can just pay me for for the commercial in beer not Corsite well maybe corsite I don't care it's fine sorry some loud music you can really hear the bass in this car.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:53

Oh my god they better not park there. Alright hold on let me close my window real quick I'll be right back do not stop recording.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:59

Just give me one second all the airflow in that house it's gonna get rough I think this is more of an audience issue and not an issue with the film itself.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:12

You're out here hacking this movie and saying it's your problem.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:15

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:16

It's a look it's it's me it's not you as I wrote down things in you know for my notes on this movie I actually got pretty far down before I finally complained about Sherry Moon zombie. And that was in the scene where she's like on a date before Herman Munster is really even a thing. So I got pretty far in before I found myself like okay I'm I'm I'm feeling kind of bothered by this you know as I've considered this in retrospect it gives me a Herman Munster that I like not more in terms of Fred Gwyn's performance. Fred Gwyn Herman Munster will always be Herman Munster but I like the character of this Herman Munster a little bit more in terms of likeability lovability whereas the original Herman Munster is a bit patriarchal and problematic for me. Okay you know what I was telling you earlier about Sherry Moon Zombie having two moments in her performance as Lily that I felt were the most grounded one is when she's singing I Got You Babe. I haven't said enough about the soundtrack of this movie and I love it. Like I legitimately I was listening to the score I was listening to the soundtrack on Apple Music like on my way to work today and I'm actually going to pre-order the vinyl because there isn't I think a single song on this record that I that I dislike and I don't like Herman's voice in I Got You Babe but her seriousness and her just groundedness and her and her trying to channel share I thought was fantastic. But then the way she is in that end monologue where she's a little bit more stern she's a little bit more lexury I was like see you're getting closer to Lily and I understand that we're seeing a younger Lily all things relative because she's a vampire sure but it was like trying to see the dots connect from who I know to who this new person is and like how do you show me even getting like a quarter or a half halfway to Lily Munster and I I appreciated that moment.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:19

Yeah I was gonna say you can get all those all those songs on collector vinyls now which is really cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:25

I too will probably try to snag those uh one thing Rob Zombie does really well is is give you some really awesome stuff like his last album I got like a box set that had his his album in vinyl CD cassette tape and a bunch of like pins and stuff like super super cool he's really good about that kind of stuff yeah I didn't know anything about the true lore of it I had heard mention to Devil's Island but I never connected the dots very specifically there's an episode where like Herman buys property to vacation somewhere because Devil's Island is completely shut down now and that's as far as I went but I think it's if you're someone who loves this the series and you've watched it to the levels that you have that would for sure throw me off too it'd be like completely changing the lore of Halloween but like keeping the same continuity which I guess is a poor example because that film famously has like 17 different timelines I feel like I need one of those air hoses with me always and I I'm not even wearing a costume you know okay Herman.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:31

I do have the Herman shoes you know because I've got such large feet just not platforms.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:35

They're orthopedic though.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:36

They're not I should get some orthopedic shoes. That's probably a good idea. I I've got the block head ready to go though that's already built in.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:42

Huh what a perfectly flat head you don't see that every day nice I love that I did it