236: Secret Window (2004)

SPEAKER_00 0:04

And that to me was very unexpected. I don't really remember that at all.

SPEAKER_04 0:08

Yeah, not the good kind of finish them off either.

SPEAKER_01 0:13

Greetings and salutations, and welcome to the spooky season with Hackerslash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. This is between you and me. We don't need no outsiders. If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack, a total joke, a waste of time, or a slash.

SPEAKER_00 0:34

Totally killer, pun intended.

SPEAKER_01 0:36

We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, we're rating these movies with a perspective we've gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast. This week I'm joined by the Superfly Space Guy Mac.

SPEAKER_00 0:51

I seen your wife today. She's parody.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

And the cowardly creeper Ryan. There's a useful detail. Thanks for that. This episode and the entirety of our 2022 spooky season is brought to you by our friends at Comstrips. Commstrips is helping us celebrate our 2022 theme of comfort horror, and in that spirit, today's film is a comfort pick from the cowardly creeper herself. Before we get snuggled up on the couch, though, we have some follow-up.

SPEAKER_00 1:16

Let's follow up on some stuff. As this episode releases, we're nearly halfway through our second annual New Blood Drive. If you've missed out on the news, the New Blood Drive is a month-long celebration which includes extended episodes with free sides, double episodes each week, and a special podcast birthday gift to all new patrons who sign up in the month of October. Thank you so much to those who've joined our Patreon family. We're grateful to have your support. If you want to learn more about the New Blood Drive, visit patreon.com/slash hacker slash. We also want to welcome one of our newest patrons, Lucas. Lucas, welcome to the Hacker Slash family. And that's our follow-up.

SPEAKER_01 1:50

Well, another portion of our New Blood Drive is a head-to-head competition between our co-hosts. Each week this month, we're giving our co-hosts the opportunity to inject their comfort horror into the lineup. At the end of the month, you'll get the opportunity to vote for which movie and episode you favored, which will make one of our co-hosts the winner of the second annual co-host clash. They did the clash.

SPEAKER_02 2:13

They did the co-host clash. The co-host clash. It was a podcast smell. They did the clash. And they were talking trash. The co-host clash. Tonight on Hack or Slash.

SPEAKER_01 2:30

Our first contender is a film adapted from a Stephen King novel. The film explores what happens when a famous writer in the midst of a divorce is stalked by a man wielding claims of plagiarism. This week, after being nominated by Ryan, we're talking about Secret Window. Ryan, why was this your comfort horror pick?

SPEAKER_04 2:48

So I know that I am the person here who's very rarely seen a movie that we review before we review it. But this one is different. And I think it comes from an era where my mom was picking a lot of horror movies. I feel like Sixth Sense, Secret Window. This is just like a time period where I do feel like I actually have seen quite a few things. They just happen to sometimes like be missing from our list. And this is one that I have fond memories of watching. I do think my mom was probably just staring at Johnny Depp the whole time. That's probably why we watched this. But I remember it feeling good. And it's always kind of been one that I've wanted to re-watch, but you know me, I'm not big on re-watching movies. So I needed an excuse to watch it again. And I think the biggest thing that's like comforting about this movie is the setting, where it's at. It feels cozy. It's where I want to be, especially in October. It's where where my dreams come true, you know? Maybe not all of the movie, but a good portion of it. And then there's a there's a a certain pacing to this movie that just that just makes you want to kick back and relax, I feel like.

SPEAKER_01 3:56

Well, we'll see if it proves to be as comforting for the rest of us, but who's seen this one before?

SPEAKER_00 4:01

I'm not sure the last time I saw it. I think it was probably just playing on TV or something back in the day, but this is when I've seen at least portions of several times in the entire thing, at least once before this.

SPEAKER_04 4:11

I've seen it several times. Honestly, this is probably one of my more watched movies ever.

SPEAKER_01 4:17

Honestly shocking. I saw this originally when it came out, but I have not seen it since then. And I'll be honest, when Ryan threw this out into the air for her nomination of her comfort horror movie, I was like, is this really even horror though? Because it's in most places is actually more categorized as like a psychological thriller or a mystery, etc. So going into this with the open mind, finding at least one place that does consider it a horror movie, and knowing that it is adapted from a Stephen King novel, I was expecting this to surprise me. I was expecting there to be more than I remembered there being. I was expecting a little bit more of the sinister energy that uh maybe was lost on me when I was a 14-year-old watching this for the first time. But what were you all expecting?

SPEAKER_04 5:03

So I had a long period of time where I hadn't watched this. And before I went back into it, I kind of knew like what kind of things happened and what kind of ending we were gonna get, but I didn't trust myself almost, right? So I went in expecting like some mystery, some thriller. I definitely have a specific type of scary-ish movie that I love, and it is like psycho thriller, and I was so ready to go down that rabbit hole and like you know, just get lost in some psychosis. That's that's pretty much what I'm here for.

SPEAKER_00 5:32

I was mostly expecting fairly similar, just psychological thriller vibes the whole time. Um, a little light on the horror, perhaps, and definitely expecting a much younger Johnny Depp playing a really quirky, eccentric character for 90 minutes.

SPEAKER_04 5:47

Yeah, I think you go into this movie. I hope that you know what you're getting yourself into with Johnny Depp. This is a very specific era of Depp. It's pre his like fantasy arc, you know, before like Alice in Wonderland and yeah, Sweeney Todd, and uh, you know, even before like Pirates of the Caribbean and everything. It's not quite Nightmare on Elm Street, Johnny, but he's a very specific type of like artsy dude in this. So you gotta go in knowing that. That shouldn't be a surprise. What was a surprise for me was the kills in this movie. We'll talk about gore, of course. I don't think it's incredibly gory, but there's just something about the kills that are like a bit intense, a bit more intense than I was prepared for.

SPEAKER_00 6:28

You know, I have I had pretty similar thoughts about the kills in this film, but I think while watching this, I just sat there thinking, man, I really do love just mainstream pop culture thrillers, like blockbuster thrillers. They're truly enjoyable watches many times, just not every time. You get this kind of like medium level of suspense, medium level of terror, but plenty of room to truly build some interesting characters. And I think that's probably what set us up for low expectations when it came to the kills. Um, because you, you know, honestly, I I went into this thinking like, I don't know if anyone actually dies in this movie.

SPEAKER_01 7:04

Same. I was thinking the exact same thing. You know, it's funny that you bring up, you know, loving a good mainstream thriller because I found this movie to be perfectly serviceable, perfectly fine, but I realized that these types of movies don't really excite me. So, you know, there's obviously a lot of people who draw parallels between this and the shining. I personally thought it was like uh the shining meets fight club in a way. And not that I've ever even seen Fight Club, I just I think it's what I presume Fight Club to be, given some critical points. But I found that it was kind of like a static beat on my heart monitor, right? I wasn't so excited, I wasn't disappointed, I wasn't really uh surprised at any step of the way. I think there were some things that I appreciated for sure. I think Johnny Depp gives a solid performance that I actually found really entertaining and humorous at some times, but I was absolutely surprised by an act of aggression. It's one of like the most it's it's one of the earliest acts of aggression in this movie, and I did not remember that at all. And I found myself thinking, why the hell did Ryan nominate this movie?

SPEAKER_04 8:11

Oh honey, let me tell you, I was not prepared again before my like most recent watch, completely forgot that that happened. And yeah, it it's a rough one. It's a pretty rough one.

SPEAKER_00 8:24

I I had blocked that out of my mind, I think, from the last time I saw this. Maybe, maybe the last time I saw it was on TV and they just like didn't have that entire scene in in the TV version. I don't, I don't even know. But yeah, the the kills in general are pretty darn surprising. Like the level brutality you get. Um there's a kill-in question we're talking about that we'll get to in the second half that is absolutely appalling and and highly shocking. Um, but I think overall, even with all the crazy kills, all the psychological thrills that we get, and the level of mystery, I didn't find it to be particularly scary.

SPEAKER_04 8:58

Yeah, I have to agree. I I don't think this movie is particularly scary, but then, you know, I'm kind of thinking back to my first watch, right? Because that's kind of where we want to come from in in some ways. And my first watch, I did not know what was going on. I didn't pick up on all the little cues and know all the things. And certainly I was caught in the suspense of it much more the first time. But while it doesn't have a lot of, I think, horror fear, I still like even knowing what's going on, I'm still like wrapped up in it the whole time. I I can't get enough.

SPEAKER_01 9:32

Yeah, to be completely fair, the storyline is compelling. And at no point was I ever bored, right? I think it does a lot of work to make you feel like you're in his shoes and there are some subtle noises in the background where you realize, oh, you are all alone in this big house. What could that noise have been? So it built it builds suspense for sure, but there's just something about this movie that didn't make me feel like the stakes were particularly high. And, you know, I don't even think I felt that the first time I saw this movie because it's not something that I ever, you know, it ever it ever stood out to me as wow, what a gripping experience. You know, you think about Johnny Depp and you think about some of the roles that he's in, and he's someone who can really disappear into a bit. He's someone who can disappear into an act. And I think in retrospect, looking back at this movie, I don't think there's anything that he could have done more, but I'm surprised that this movie was less memorable to me. I will say, I think some of that is attributed to the direction that it goes. I think at its core, the story is not particularly original. It's solid, don't get me wrong. But it I don't I don't watch this movie and feel like, yes, this adds something to the equation that I have never seen before.

SPEAKER_00 10:52

It it was very much caught up in that whole late 90s, early 2000s feeling of thriller mystery, a little bit of horror. Like it's it's just like in the genre, it's got the same pacing, I feel like, as a lot of other films that it's very similar to. Um, but of course, the subject matter. This was really hot at the time, and I don't want to spoil anything if you haven't seen it, but there's some major aspects to this film that were so played out in like a 10 to 15 year span from the late 90s through the early 2000s. And that's no fault of its own. I mean, I know it's based off of something Stephen King wrote, but I feel like the time it came out, it was just like saturated in the market with this.

SPEAKER_04 11:33

Yeah, I have to agree. I don't think this does much for feeling original. I will say I think there's a lot from Stephen King that's lost, as is normal, I think, for his movies or movies you know made from his stories. I think there's a lot lost because at the end we really get a peek into something that we don't really see the rest of the way through. And from my understanding, I think there's a lot more to the full story. So the the movie definitely lacks a feeling of originality.

SPEAKER_01 12:04

I will say that what it lacks in originality though, it makes up for with a compelling ending. And I know that the end is, from what I understand, a bit different than the original story it's adapted from. But I think when we get a reveal, when we get the understanding and we're kind of let in on the big secret of the movie, it kind of reframes every interaction that happened before that. And I think the ending might be one of the strongest points of it.

SPEAKER_00 12:35

You know, the ending's so much darker than I remembered, um, almost to the point of like it kind of felt out of place with the rest of the movie because I think you mentioned earlier that the stakes don't feel particularly high for a long time. And then as we get into the inning, it's like all of a sudden, actually, the stakes were super high the entire time. Um, and now things are gonna go absolutely wild. Um, but I love the fact that we get we get really kind of a nice closed end to this film. It's it's very final, which is which is great. Um, but it is it is pretty darn dark. Like this is one of those moments where I feel like, oh, 2004, it's gonna, it's gonna come to some like really light, happy ending, and they're like, no, no, no way in hell.

SPEAKER_04 13:14

Yeah, I think the darkness of the ending is actually what like kind of solidified this in my mind, like why I have significant memories of it. And I think the ending is what makes this feel the way it feels, also, because it does reframe everything, and I feel like it makes you feel the need to watch it again, which is kind of a successful thing at the end of a movie, right? At the end of the movie, you want one of two things either you want me to be excited about a sequel or be excited to see it again in some ways. And I rarely ever in life am like, man, I want to watch that again. But when you have an ending like this, it compels you to do so.

SPEAKER_01 13:50

Well, it may compel you to watch it again, but let's see if it compels us to rate it favorably now. Before we get to our ratings, Ryan, how would you describe the gore score for someone who hasn't seen this yet?

SPEAKER_04 14:02

The gore score as a whole is low. There is some intensity to the kills, but the gore score itself is still quite low. And what about the animal report? Yeah, it's not good. This one is uh an offender.

SPEAKER_01 14:16

This one is noteworthily bad. Well, let's go ahead and get into our ratings then. Secret window from 2004. Ryan's comfort horror pick of the 2022 spooky season. Was it a hack or a slash?

SPEAKER_04 14:28

Yes, I I think it's pretty simple. I'm not gonna pull another 13 ghosts and make us watch a movie and then hack it. Okay. I couldn't let that happen again. I had recently re-watched this. I'm not being convinced by any recency bias of Johnny Depp and whatever he's been going on with. I just really like this movie. It has had a warm spot in my heart for a very long time. I enjoy it. I enjoyed it so much, even when I knew what was going on. I enjoy showing it to other people. It's the perfect thing for me, where, you know, Chris, you're saying sometimes you weren't particularly like compelled towards anything or really felt like the stakes are high. And for me, that is exactly what a comfort horror movie is. I can kick back and watch it. I can barely pay attention, or I can pay very, very close attention and be completely focused. I think Johnny Depp is lovely in this. He's like, you know, the perfect realistic, sarcastic writer. You know, he uh could easily be this person in real life. And I enjoyed it. I enjoy every second of it. It's definitely not a perfect movie. It's a super 2004 movie, but I have to say, I think it ages quite well. So it's a hard slash for me.

SPEAKER_00 15:43

Okay, so first of all, it's a movie based on a short story about a writer whose short story is accused of being plagiarized. Sometimes meta can be great. Secondly, Johnny Depp does the character of more solid justice, and to have him play opposite John Torturro is cinematic gold. Uh the movie isn't solidly in the horror camp in everyone's book, but that's okay. We have a remote cabin in the woods, a stealthy killer who psychologically manipulates, an entire house burning down, and Stephen King. Is this an 80s slasher or a mid-2000s thriller? It's simply an enjoyable watch, thus a slash.

SPEAKER_01 16:18

Okay. Okay, Ryan, so to clarify, yes, the stakes weren't very high. Yes, I wasn't particularly compelled by anything. If I could equate this movie to uh a human, this movie is not my soulmate. This movie is not one that I would marry. This isn't even one that I would seriously consider proposing to. We'd go on a date, we'd have a fine time, we'd still see each other for a few months, and that's okay. It's not necessarily comfort movie for me, but I also understand your perspective on the setting of it because man, nothing says comfort quite like Johnny Depp cozying up on that couch in that tattered sweater, right? Like that oozes comfort, and I get it. I know I I mentioned earlier that there's a lot of parallels between this and The Shining. I didn't really like The Shining, I didn't particularly care for it. I enjoyed the book, but this movie made me want to see Johnny Depp as Jack Torrance. I would love that. That'd be so fucking good. Let's give that a shot, guys. There's a lot in this that this movie, I think, is missing in terms of edge. I don't think this is one that could be carried solely by Johnny Depp's acting chops at this time, but it's perfectly fine. It's a slash. It's not one that I'm angry about, it's not one that I wish was even particularly more exciting. This is about as low as I'd go, I think, for a psychological thriller and still actively watch the movie.

SPEAKER_04 17:48

I fully consider this a solid win. And and honestly, exactly what I was hoping for from you all. It's not for everyone. It's not intense. You don't feel strongly about it, you just enjoy it.

SPEAKER_00 18:00

You just cozy up on a couch with a tattered old sweater.

SPEAKER_01 18:03

Well, with that, Secret Window from 2004 has earned a universal slash. And and speaking of re-watching this movie, it is available for rent or purchase online. So go check it out. Then join us in the second half so we can peer through that secret window together. We'll see you in a bit.

SPEAKER_00 18:41

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SPEAKER_01 19:33

Welcome back, folks. You are now entering the spoiler zone for Secret Window, which has earned a universal slash. Now we have a lot to unpack here, but before we get into the specifics of our ratings, Ryan, take us through the kills.

SPEAKER_04 19:45

So we have four kills in this movie, four deaths. There is the the one extra, which is the dog. That's that's the offensive kill for all of us. I I I cannot conceive why it needed to be what it was. And also, you know, this is one that I'm gonna argue didn't need to happen. I think I probably usually make that argument in this scenario, but like, why was it so bad?

SPEAKER_00 20:08

I I think it could have been achieved with perhaps the dog just running away. That would have been sufficient for me.

SPEAKER_01 20:15

Okay, so here's the thing. I didn't want the dog to die. I still don't like the fact that the dog died, but I think what it does serve as is a is a way to say, hey, this guy is doing things that he absolutely would not do if he'd perhaps gotten the proper help or sought the proper treatment. This is something that is so far out of his reach. Like he obviously loved this dog, this dog obviously loved him. Uh, and I think it really just tries to just draw that disparity between who we think more is and who we who he is revealed to be.

SPEAKER_04 20:55

Yeah, I get it. I it just he was such a good boy. And also, I mean, I don't know, even if he is even if he does have to be killed, we didn't need to see it the way we saw it. Okay, we didn't. That said though, our few kills that we have, I again, they're not terribly gory, but I do feel like they're impactful. So what are your favorites?

SPEAKER_01 21:14

Oh, mine is absolutely Ted because fuck that guy, honestly. Like, I get it. Moore is the real villain of the movie, understood, but Ted is absolutely a prick. I'm sorry, sitting in that office trying to overlook your girlfriend of six months' belongings while she's negotiating this with her ex-husband after their entire family home just burned down. No, fuck you, guy. You're an asshole. He does suck.

SPEAKER_00 21:38

That was also my favorite kill, but I think it's mostly the setup of the kill that got me because we see Ted coming up, we know he's got the shovel, and like Amy's yelling out at the last second and still thwack right in the face. So I like the setup. It seemed almost like three stooges level of comedy, uh, but then it's followed up with just sheer brutality as we know that. He effectively took the edge of the shovel and finished him off. And that to me was very unexpected. I don't really remember that at all.

SPEAKER_01 22:06

Yeah, not the good kind of finish him off either. 100%. And I know that this movie frames this to be no matter how unlikable Ted is, he still doesn't deserve what he got. But honestly, I didn't feel anything positive about him. I didn't feel badly for him. I was more like, all right, spare Amy, but let this fucking guy go. Because I'm tired of him. Yeah. Ted sucks.

SPEAKER_04 22:32

I there's nothing redeemable about him for me. My favorite kill is actually Tom Greenleaf because it is so unexpected. And a screwdriver to the side of the head, like a little temple stab, a little flathead into your temple. That sounds horrible. And something about the screwdriver in the side of the head really like brings vision of like what it was, what that kill was like for some reason. Like I feel like I can imagine it in my head very vividly, and it's horrific. I feel like it just like slide into your temple in a disgusting death way.

SPEAKER_00 23:05

I mean, there would be so much force required, and if done wrong, you would just simply blind the man. So he had to quickly aim, hit him in the right spot, but put enough force into it to really crack his skull and go all the way through the brain.

SPEAKER_04 23:20

I mean, isn't there technically a hole right here?

SPEAKER_00 23:23

Yeah, I I guess there is, which is why it's like sometimes people get shot in the head and they just end up blind because they sever their optic nerves.

SPEAKER_01 23:30

You know, I was recently watching on HBO Max, our flag means death, and they really do pose the question of do you know how hard it is to drive a sword through a human skull? Which I think speaks volumes for this kind of violence and even some of the other stuff that we see in slashers where like we get a hammer claw that goes straight into a person's head. It's really just intense and it's had me rethink the head trauma of it all. And I agree with you, Tom Greenleaf. Ooh, what a way to go.

SPEAKER_04 23:59

You know, famously, skulls are literally made for protecting your head, your brain, your important bits. They do a job.

SPEAKER_01 24:06

And when they fail to do that job, it's pretty significant. Yeah, big RIP after that.

SPEAKER_00 24:11

It was a bummer though to see Ken go out with like the axe in the back seat. It kind of felt like a little bit, a little bit weak for such a strong character. Because I feel like Ken brought a lot to the table or could have had he not been taken out so early. And then it was just like a quick like thwack to the neck with an axe.

SPEAKER_01 24:29

Yes, but I think that goes to show how much his guard was down or how much he trusted Mort. Because I don't think anybody else could have gotten over Ken.

SPEAKER_04 24:37

Yeah, plus if if they're both in the car at the same time, like he kind of has to be in a situation where he can't escape it to get that kill. Otherwise, you know, you see somebody get stabbed in the head with a screwdriver, you're gonna be out of there unless you're extremely comfortable with that person. If anything was like any alarms going off, you're not gonna, you're not gonna get killed there because you're gonna get out. I honestly thought he was gonna die in that hotel because the way they showed him, just like, you know, it just looks like the typical, he's like in bed in a button-up, like, why are you in bed in a button-up? And I truly in that moment was like, oh, this is his kill scene. And I'm glad it wasn't.

SPEAKER_00 25:12

Speaking, speaking of button-downs, can we talk about Johnny Depp's wardrobe? Which was part of my favorite visual of this movie. Not just the wardrobe, though, the hair and the way it interacts with the wardrobe, like the way that he wakes up off the couch, his hair is wild, and then as soon as the beanie goes down, his hair looks perfect in it. And all of the other personal like accoutrements that really build the character visually, even before Johnny Depp starts acting, we like just get this feel for him. He's not some bland button wearing so-called writer who has to write in coffee shops to be seen by everybody. They really sold us this like neurotic writer vibe.

SPEAKER_04 25:49

When this movie starts and he is just about to lose it and is like trying to convince himself not to lose it, and he's in the parking lot of finding out his wife is cheating on him. Oh my god, he has such a creepy face. Like, he looks like he's about to kill me. I I when I first turned this movie back on to watch again for this episode, I was like, man, this is creepy. I forgot how creepy this starts out.

SPEAKER_01 26:14

Okay, look, I'm right there with you, Mac. Johnny Depp, best looking part of this whole movie. And I do think we can say that if Mort were a real person today, he'd be doing Warby Parker ads.

SPEAKER_00 26:28

Oh, the glasses were an essential part of that of that look. A hundred percent. I mean, I'm not saying that I potentially have glasses that are similar in style to them, and that's maybe a little bit of bias going on. But the glasses at the end of the movie were subpar. That switch, why did it happen? They did not look good.

SPEAKER_04 26:47

Well, overall, at the end he didn't look good. He made like a full switch to I I think it was a part of like showing that he's just like completely lost it, you know, because his hair wasn't looking good. He has maybe a hat on towards at the very end, the very last scene, like when he's going back to the store and stuff like that, the very last bit, he doesn't look good. And it's it's not the one. I don't like it. He's got like a little bob swoopy thing.

SPEAKER_01 27:10

No. Yeah, he looks closer to present-day Johnny Depp with a hair pulled back, and really let that Johnny Depp go. Just keep short hair, Johnny Depp. You're doing fine without it.

SPEAKER_04 27:20

But again, are we giving him credit for just existing in his natural state? Because I feel like Johnny Depp in this movie is just wearing his regular clothes, like a little less jewelry than he does now. But these just feel like his tattered sweaters and this feels like his cabin.

SPEAKER_01 27:35

Probably. But let me also just state that aside from the uh level of attractive that Johnny Depp is in this movie as Mort, which extra credit for making a person named Mort seem attractive. True. That's a feat in and of itself. I think looking at the home, the lakeside home with which he is writing, with which he is kind of loafing about, wallowing in the grief and mourning his marriage, the set design and the way this house begins to feel at some points so cavernous, but also so small the moment that you think someone else is in there, really fucking spooky. And I love the setting of this movie. I have to agree.

SPEAKER_04 28:19

And I have a very specific visual thing, and it's some of these like off-kilter shots that we get in the house, especially shots into the mirror. But there's a few things that happen throughout this movie where, you know, we're kind of we're kind of looking at things sideways in the house, and it just gives you enough unsettled feelings to match what's going on in the story. But it's not like overdone. I don't know. I mean, I guess I could argue there's some time at the end when we have like two and three Johnny Depps on screen. Maybe it got a little heavy-handed there, but the little tiny, but there's little things that they did with the camera that really emphasized the psychosis, and I enjoyed that so much. And the psychosis leads into my personal favorite scene, which is oddly almost all the way at the end. And again, we kind of just mentioned it, it's when he goes to the store after the kills, after everything, and the girl that was previously flirting with him really wanted to talk to him, get to know what he, you know, wanted to see what he's got going on. She is now literally running to get away from him, crawling out basically away from this counter, uh, barely even wants the things that she was buying. And he's just so confident and creepy. And it's in that moment that you know that we've lost him completely. He's not in there anymore. He's he's full send on this psychosis, and he's not doesn't seem to be coming back anytime soon. And I loved it. I love the end being that instead of being like a nice little wrap-up, like, oh, he killed everybody, but then he just plays it off. Like, no, no, no, he's just out here, you know, telling the cop that, you know, he's just enjoying some corn.

SPEAKER_00 30:03

It's interesting to me though that at the end he's not John Shooter in a Johnny Depp body. It's like a whole different personality or identity from any of the others that were brought up in the film. And that was a bit weird to me because I expected, you know, John Shooter is telling us at the end, like, he's gone, I'm in control, I'm doing the things now that like needed to get done or whatever. But then the character at the end is neither of them. It's like a whole completely different person. Oddly enough, my favorite scene deals with John Shooter, and it's actually at the beginning of the film, complete opposite of yours. But any scene where we had John Troutur on screen was was fantastic. But I think the first scene early in the movie where he shows up out of nowhere, boldly making this claim of plagiarism, is great because he's such a straight talker. He's very matter-of-fact, and he seems also like very down-to-earth. And I love that. Like he makes great eye contact, he's very direct with why he's there. And initially it it's kind of disarming because of his personality and his charm. He's got that whole like southern twang going on, but later on, anytime he speaks, it's it's kind of like a threat nearly every time he speaks, because he is so matter-of-the-when he tells you I'm gonna mess you up, he's not lying.

SPEAKER_01 31:17

That was a decent moment. Uh, it's one that I personally did not gravitate to, but I I think it's because I just was not a fan of John Shooter as a whole. Not in terms of like on principle, I was against him, but I don't know, he just kind of popped up out of nowhere. And obviously, after you watch this movie the first time, you know that of course he pops out of nowhere because he's inside his head. But I I was not compelled at all by the Southern Twang or this boy from Mississippi or the threat of him, because obviously, obviously Mort feels threatened by him, but I didn't believe why he was threatened by him. At no point did I feel like Mort was actually in any real danger. I just felt like everyone around Mort was in danger. And that's even like the first time watching this movie, right? Maybe it's because it's Johnny Depp, and I'm like, they're not gonna fucking kill Johnny Depp in his own movie. Maybe that was it. But I just couldn't, I couldn't buy the danger of John until it came to killing Chico, which was absolutely devastating. So just to give our listener obviously a whiplash, my favorite scene was actually back towards the end. And it's actually when we realize that John Shooter and Mort are one and the same. And you have this moment where Mort is talking to himself and then realizing what's happening, and he's putting on the hat, and then all of a sudden you look around his lakeside home, and then all of a sudden you look around his home and you see that shooter is just shoot her. And we get that flashback to the beginning where he wanted to kill Amy and Ted when he found out about her infidelity. Not that I wanted him to win, not that I rooted for him in any way, and I love seeing the depth to Mort there. Because this whole time you think, oh man, he showed up at the hotel, he was pissed, he's wounded, now he's cordial enough to take some phone calls from her, even though it's it's painful between the two of them. But we go back and we learn that this has been with Mort for a very long time, and we hear about the moments where she feels like he wasn't there the last few years, and this is getting worse and worse and worse for him, but he doesn't know it. So when he finally comes to know it, man, did this movie really come together?

SPEAKER_04 33:43

It definitely did, and you know, something that you just said rung a bell where I feel like one of the things that's shining adjacent from this movie is shoot her. Shoot her is its own little red rum moment, you know, which I I feel like I like shoot her a little more than red rum, a little more than a little kid just screaming red rum for 30 minutes.

SPEAKER_01 34:01

Yeah, it's not as iconic as red rum, clearly, but also that's part of why I think this movie feels a little recycled.

SPEAKER_04 34:07

Yeah, I could see that. But back to another thing that you mentioned, those phone calls between Amy and Mort, they are for me what gives this movie all of its charm. I like John. Um, there there's other things, but those phone calls are where Johnny Depp just shines. He's so funny and, you know, very matter-of-fact, very sarcastic. It's so freaking good. And you really, really get to know like their relationship from those calls. But boy, the gaslighting. When Amy calls and she is in bed crying just to bring up signing the papers again, it is, I mean, it is such a long con that she's on just to do anything to get those papers signed. And then she walks through, you know, the house with Ted and she's like, I'm going up there. She was just crying 30 seconds ago, full sob. Now she's just all right, putting on a shirt, I'm going up there. That gaslighting is next level, and it I feel like I'd go crazy from it.

SPEAKER_01 35:06

You know, it's interesting though. I do feel like Amy was legitimately sad at the point at the time. I don't think she wasn't being manipulative. Don't get me wrong. I think she was obviously trying to do anything she could to get the paper signed. But it's interesting to look back now, knowing what we know about more, and think about what that marriage was like for her and why she'd be going to such measures to get those divorce papers signed. So I think that's an interesting take. But the point there where you learn about them uh nearly having a baby together and knowing that so many marriages do not survive that, it's it's so heartbreaking. And I do believe that there's sadness on both sides. It's possible, you know, like two unwell people can't make each other well, and it's possible that two people can love each other and not be able to, yeah, necessarily like salvage their marriage or work through things, and they just could not be meant for each other. So many things that can go into this, but it is interesting to go back and think, damn, what must have this been like for her before we even got to the beginning of this movie?

SPEAKER_04 36:20

Don't get me wrong, I a hundred percent believe that she was worried about him. I know that, like, there's no question about that for me. I think she called, she was worried when she said she was worried. She wanted to know, you know, are you gonna be okay? You're starting to seem like you were some time ago. I believe those things. I don't believe those puppy dog tears, though, that she was was spitting out. They were fake.

SPEAKER_00 36:43

I like though that they were able to build a pretty, pretty good backstory for like what led to them becoming separated, what led to her clinging to Ted. Because I feel like a lot of times it's just like, hey, our marriage was crappy. Okay, good enough for the script. But the fact that they were to build in, like, hey, like for a long time he had been building up to that, the fact that he thought there was no issue for a long time, like totally realism going on right there. And then Ted, like slipping in there and being her stand-in husband while she had a husband who wasn't there. Yeah, I think that just made us not like him from this from the start.

SPEAKER_01 37:22

For sure. And I think what makes me dislike Ted even more now in this reflection is this realization that he was probably obviously the friend who was waiting in the wings, just waiting for the moment to sneak in. And it feels less like a balanced, healthy relationship with Amy and more like him being an opportunist. And I think that's what makes him feel so much more slimy to me. I can't buy that this is just good intentions. I can't buy that, you know, they have a relationship that was forged in some really difficult moments. And you know, I know we get this throwaway line about how he was pushing her to tell Mort together, but I don't buy for a second that Ted just isn't an asshole who's taking advantage of the moment and preying on Amy.

SPEAKER_04 38:08

Oh, for sure. But I think Amy is too. I mean, literally, there's that moment where Amy's like, we're not together. And she just meant literally right now, together in the same room. That's what she meant. That she said that to her ex-husband, soon to be. She said, We're not together. Why would you say that? They're they both suck. Amy and Ted suck.

SPEAKER_00 38:26

Who doesn't suck though? The sheriff, probably one of the best characters in the movie.

SPEAKER_04 38:30

Has he ever been bad at anything ever?

SPEAKER_00 38:32

Actually, I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 38:33

He's like the classic old man, you know. Like, I want him to be my grandpa.

SPEAKER_00 38:38

He's got some major grandpa energy going on. I think what's great though is even when he like knows something is up, he like doesn't let it to the surface too much. Like he knows something weird is is going on and he is just sitting there doing his little needling or whatever, which is cool.

SPEAKER_01 38:55

Yeah, I didn't have too many feelings about him. We get to meet him, and I I thought, okay, great, another cop who's not gonna do anything useful in this movie. So to see him have some bravado there at the end, I'm like, yeah, okay, whatever. Uh best character in the movie absolutely was Chico. Chico, who did not deserve the fate with which he met. That dog was nothing but loyal. And I think what hurts the most was that it was particularly sinister because that dog was killed at the hands of an owner he loved. And you think about what that moment must have been like? I got a little choked up just thinking about this after the movie ended. Like you you think about dogs who tend to panic if they're having to be put down at the vet and like they're looking for their owner, and it's just like, God, Chico, what must you have felt? Fake dog who didn't actually die in this movie, I know. Yeah, God bless. I just am emotionally wrecked.

SPEAKER_04 39:47

Why do you let yourself think about stuff like that? It's a movie. Like, don't let yourself go down that rabbit hole. It's not worth it.

SPEAKER_01 39:54

This movie clearly wanted me to go down that rabbit hole. That's why it did it.

SPEAKER_04 39:58

Not after. You're supposed to look at it and be traumatized in the moment and then let it go because you know Chico made it. He is such a cute, lovely boy. He's amazing. I love him. I love that he's a unique looking dog. Chico's the best. Chico's for sure the best part of this movie. Unfortunately, though, I I struggled a little to find a worse part, but I did find one. And for me, it's like the complication of all the back and forth about like getting the magazine and like the article in the magazine. Like, honestly, the details between Mort's article and then Shooter's story, I didn't care enough about all the details. I could have just gone for like a general plagiarism story.

SPEAKER_01 40:39

Interestingly enough, I enjoyed the back and forth with the magazine, and then him finding that the magazine was cut from the copy of it, and then finding when Amy arrived at his home that he did it himself and the papers are just scattered everywhere. I loved that moment. I'm bringing it back to Chico though. Chico dying, worst part of this movie.

SPEAKER_00 41:01

I was I think that's up there, but I'm gonna say the worst part is the fact that Mort also killed Ken. So I think Ken and Chico going, those two should be best buds and then haunt Mort for the rest of his life.

SPEAKER_04 41:13

Yeah, let's see that sequel. I have another like random mention. It's certainly not a best part, but one of the times where Mort is asleep on the couch, he dreams that he's falling off a cliff and then he falls off the couch. And I have dreams like this that physically make me jump because I think I'm falling almost every single night. So when it happened in this movie, I thought, thank God I'm not alone. And I really enjoyed it. And also it was a it was a pretty cool visual with the the water and everything.

SPEAKER_01 41:43

Oh, absolutely. That was super relatable. Unfortunately, despite how relatable that is, I don't think I'm gonna be watching this anytime soon. Not that it's bad, it's just that I wasn't so compelled by it that I feel the need to experience it again.

SPEAKER_00 41:59

I think it's one of those where I don't know that I would feel a need to watch it necessarily, but I think it's one of the best features of a good thriller is that you can watch it every couple years and it's just as enjoyable. It maybe you seek it out, maybe it's on, maybe somebody's like, oh, I haven't seen this before, but I think it's something you can you can put on and like not feel bad about. You're not gonna be super bored, you'll still kind of get into it. There's like a lot of thrillers out there that are very similar to that. Training day is one of those for me. I could watch Training Day probably once every six months and still really get into it.

SPEAKER_04 42:29

Yeah, there's a couple things about this for me. One is I think after you know what's going on, I do feel like it compels you to watch it again, reframed under reframed with your understanding of the story and like picking up all the little things, like when Mort wakes up late for brunch and his car is outside still running because he just got home. You know, like those things are so interesting when you know what's going on for sure. So I do feel like it compels you to watch it again. Also, this is absolutely one of those where if we, you know, had cable at all anymore and you were scrolling through and it was on, you would totally watch this. So I'm sure I'll see it again sometime. I might forget about it for five years. I don't know. That's what happened last time.

SPEAKER_01 43:11

This is my second time watching it this year, so we'll see. Well, let's see if any of the trivia that Mac has in store for you in fact or fiction is gonna be worth not forgetting about. I feel like I have to get this right.

SPEAKER_00 43:22

You probably you'll probably nail every single question. But number one, John Tutoro is a massive Stephen King fan and auditioned for Roles in Misery back in 1990 and Dolores Clairborne back in 1995, but had to wait until Secret Window to play in a film based on King's work.

SPEAKER_03 43:37

I'll go for a fiction. Nope. I'll go for a fact.

SPEAKER_00 43:41

This one is a fiction, though, so it could be true. I don't know if he auditioned for any of it, but I kind of made it up. So Totoro's son, however, is a huge Stephen King fan and convinced him to be part of this movie.

SPEAKER_04 43:51

Nice.

SPEAKER_00 43:52

Number two. In the hotel scene, the director had Maria Bello and Timothy Hutton lie around for 15 minutes until Johnny Depp burst through the door randomly. Startling the actors and showing some real surprise.

SPEAKER_04 44:02

Oh, I'm gonna go fact. I feel that.

SPEAKER_00 44:04

Yeah, this one's a fact. They had the lights set to turn on when Depp opened the door and big speakers set up to blast static noise to really freak them out.

SPEAKER_04 44:12

I'm really into the idea of like making real surprises happen. Not like scares and crazy stuff, but like real surprises on screen. I love it.

SPEAKER_00 44:20

As long as your actors don't have heart conditions, maybe it's okay. Number three, three actors in this film played the starring role in Sweeney Todd.

SPEAKER_04 44:27

Fiction, I think it's two.

SPEAKER_00 44:29

You are correct. It is two. So obviously, we know that Johnny Depp has played Sweeney Todd, but Lynn Carrio, the sheriff, uh, actually was the OG Broadway Sweeney Todd.

SPEAKER_04 44:40

And you know, I realized earlier I mentioned, oh my god, I just love him and everything. And it's not actually everything, it's just blue bloods. But I'm I'm sure he was great as Sweeney Todd, too.

SPEAKER_00 44:49

Right. And number four, Ving Rames was offered a role in this movie, but turned it down as he was only interested in the role of John Shooter, which had already been filled by John Traturo.

SPEAKER_04 44:57

Fiction.

SPEAKER_00 44:58

It is a fiction. He was offered a role, but he had a scheduling conflict.

SPEAKER_01 45:01

Rest in peace.

SPEAKER_00 45:02

And that's been Factor Fiction.

SPEAKER_01 45:04

Well, there you have it, folks. Secret window, our first contender, and this year's co-host Clash has under Universal Slash. While we've certainly had a lot to talk about here, it doesn't end here by any means. We want to know what you think, so let us know. You can join in on the conversation by hanging out with us for free over in our Discord, and you can click the link in our show notes to sign up.

SPEAKER_00 45:24

If you've enjoyed listening to this episode, consider becoming one of our patrons. Visit patreon.com slash hacker slash to enjoy more of the show, with early access, extended ad-free episodes, bonus content, and live shows.

SPEAKER_01 45:36

Thanks again to our friends at Commstrips for making our 2022 spooky season possible. And we'll see you next time, folks. And remember, the only thing that matters is the ending. Bye.

SPEAKER_04 45:57

You know, this movie hits me right in the perfect spot where I I've realized I have this thing and I I kind of romanticize cabins in the woods on a lake. You know, it really just seems like the perfect place to be. I'm I'm really quite a happy person by myself. I just feel like, you know, time in a cabin, it seems great. But let me tell you, and this this movie doesn't have it, but most of these like cabin houses have like a no wall, it's just windows, you know, like looking out into the lake or whatever. And it all sounds good, but I know I couldn't handle it. I know I'd literally look out of a window one time and be like, well, what's that shadow? And uh, you know, when the wall, the whole friggin' back of the house is glass, it doesn't go well. But in my head, I I would just be so happy and at peace, and I'd just sit and I don't know, maybe I'd become a writer. I'd wear so much flannel, okay? Because I'm thinking fall time, right? I know lake houses are like cool in the summer, but like it's that time of year, you know, you just want to cozy up, some blankets, uh, a little hot chocolate, coffee, whatever it is. Start a hobby that you didn't need to do, start puzzles, uh start building models of small models of stuff. I don't know. There's just so many things in my head that I would do if I had like a cute little cabin in the woods. But I know the truth is I couldn't make it for even probably two nights by myself.

SPEAKER_00 47:26

You would get to the point where you realize you have to eat hot dogs and and like canned vegetables, um, and you would probably be like, this isn't what it's cut out to be.

SPEAKER_04 47:34

Not true. Do you know how much ramen I could eat? I'm good. Honestly, I did a lot of camping growing up. I'm good with like camping food and like stuff like that. That stuff doesn't really bother me.

SPEAKER_00 47:44

Do you think it's like the alone time that appeals to you most, or the fact that you're cut off from all the things in life that don't matter?

SPEAKER_04 47:51

I think it's like the feeling, like I can feel the warmth of the experience of the cabin. And like looking out over the water, like daytime cabin in the woods sounds great. It's like once the sun goes down, then in you know, it's that time of year it starts to cool down, the wind blows a little, it's like warm and cold outside at the same time, so then you get freaked out, feels like someone's like breathing on your neck when you walk outside. Like, I'm not taking the trash out, I'm not checking the mail, nothing after dark, basically.

SPEAKER_01 48:22

I, on the other hand, am so delighted by the idea of a cabin in the woods at night, and I feel like I would enjoy it less during the day.

SPEAKER_04 48:32

I think I should clarify. I've been saying the word cabin, but I really mean a bougie house in the woods.

SPEAKER_01 48:38

Oh. I thought you meant literally a cabin. But I I guess I could get down with a bougie house in the middle of the woods. Although I do have like pond, like specific cab cabin memories, not like a the bougie house memory.

SPEAKER_04 48:52

I once, or maybe uh probably more than once. We, like I said, went went camping a lot, and sometimes if there would be like a hurricane or something coming through, we would ditch the tent and actually go stay in a cabin at our favorite little campground when I was younger. And it was really just like one of those cabins, like you walk in, there's one room, and then you walk to the back and there's one bed and like one doorway. Maybe a toilet. Probably not a toilet because it was a campground.

SPEAKER_00 49:17

That's that's part of the problem I have with camping, is I like indoor toilets and I refuse to like dig a hole in the ground and pop a squat. Um but like that's why cabins are kind of great if they have a toilet in them, is it's like, yeah, I still get the experience of being in the outdoors, but I still have some amenities that I that I really do require.

SPEAKER_04 49:41

You you only go camping at campgrounds that have bathhouses. How about we rent a cabin while I'm up visa?

SPEAKER_01 49:51

No, not appealing. Got it. Okay, noted. Understood, moving on.

SPEAKER_00 49:55

So Ryan likes the idea of it, but the reality of it is a very different thing.

SPEAKER_04 50:00

Well, I think we would have a great time, but I don't want a cabin, I want a bougie house in the woods.

SPEAKER_00 50:05

There are some really great, effectively tiny house style cabin rentals you can get within a few hours of some some major cities where you get that experience of having nice sunlight come through some good windows, you have you know enough to cook your ramen and make your tea, but at the same time, like you can limit yourself to a couple days and you don't have to be there for an entire month or anything.

SPEAKER_01 50:30

Okay, I have seen a lot of really cool options on Airbnb. Some look very luxurious, mind you, but now I'm also just thinking that we should make a parody of Cabin in the Woods, like an ultra parody called Bougie House in the Woods. A parody of a parody.

SPEAKER_00 50:46

Can we just get a Yurt in the Woods?

SPEAKER_04 50:48

A parody of a meta parody, yes. I think uh uh one of the other things though about the cabin situation is like in theory, it's far out, right? Like it's a long drive from everything, and y'all know that stresses me out.

SPEAKER_00 51:01

So I in this movie though, it's kind of more like a lake house where it's just kind of out in the country. There's still roads nearby, you're not that far away from a gas station. I feel like this is probably near a good fishing community versus like cabin in the woods where you need a paper map to get to it.

SPEAKER_04 51:19

Yes, definitely not that. But also, I think that's probably one of the flaws of this movie because they did just make it seem like you just like run up to the cabin real quick. Like they ran back and forth a lot. I'm like, I don't think y'all are making that drive if this is really where it seems like it is.

SPEAKER_00 51:33

Is it a I don't know that it's the type of cabin we're thinking of. I it does seem more like just someone's lake house where yes, it's near some woods, yes, it's near a body of water, but at the same time it's off of country road number whatever.

SPEAKER_04 51:45

I feel like lake houses are far away. Or they're supposed to be. I don't know. We're using a lot of words interchangeably here. Cabin and lakehouse, not the same thing.

SPEAKER_01 51:54

I think that it's far away in the sense that I'd never be able to financially grasp that in this lifetime, but uh the idea of it does sound appealing. I like the idea of just kind of, you know, shutting myself in for a while and still having the means with which to go out and do some groceries or uh maintain some kind of social contact every once in a while. But your your reference of cabins makes me wonder, have you heard of the Ketty Cavan murders? Of course not. Okay, great. Let me just ruin your mood.

SPEAKER_00 52:25

Oh, what's a good sign? I can't sing the jingle because we're not following up on a movie.

SPEAKER_01 52:28

Uh he usually sings uh let's follow up on some stuff.

SPEAKER_00 52:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 52:34

Certainly it was much more suspensible. And certainly it was much more suspicious and certainly it was much more suspenseful. Suspenseful. And certainly it was much more suspensible. Okay. Um suspense. Change in that sentence. The gore score as a whole is low. It's just an interesting low. Meaning.

SPEAKER_00 52:58

Why it's so spicy?

SPEAKER_04 52:59

I gotta do an Alexis when she's not here. Um okay, yeah, let me think about. I didn't think about what I wanted to say.

SPEAKER_01 53:08

Nothing says comfort quite like Johnny Depp cozying up on that couch in that tattered sweater, right? Like that ooze is comfort, and I get it. Chris is straight.

SPEAKER_04 53:20

I fully consider this a solid win. And and honestly, exactly what I was hoping for from you all. It's not for everyone. It's not intense. You don't feel strongly about it, you just enjoy it.

SPEAKER_00 53:33

You just cozy up on a couch with a tattered old sweater.

SPEAKER_01 53:35

Honestly, I think that's just Ryan's strategy to just not offend any of the voters so that she can have another win this year. Not true.

SPEAKER_04 53:44

I'm not trying to have another win. I truly just want I want everybody to re-watch this because I think most people have taken a long break from it, seen it one time, can't quite remember, and I feel like it's a great time to watch it again.

SPEAKER_01 53:57

Okay, look, I'm right there with you, Mac. Johnny Depp, best looking part of this whole movie.

SPEAKER_04 54:03

This is an important part that we should bring up where Chris and I agree on the attractivity of a man, which is very odd.

SPEAKER_01 54:12

I think what's also interesting is the fact that I do Johnny Depp before you would do Johnny Depp in the ranking of people.

SPEAKER_04 54:18

Yeah, I appreciate that Johnny Depp is an attractive person, but he is certainly not the type of person that I'm attracted to. So somehow here, the lesbian would do Johnny before I would. And I it just doesn't, I don't get it.

SPEAKER_01 54:32

I I do want to step stipulate though, I do want to stipulate though that this would be time machine action backwards traveling to young Johnny Depp of a reasonable age, in which I am a similar age, because he kind of looks like a lesbian sometimes.

SPEAKER_04 54:46

He he does be styled like a lesbian, and like when he put that brunch hat on, oh boy, he had somewhere to be, he had a lady to take out.