243: Hellraiser (2022)

SPEAKER_03 0:04

And I just miss like the sexy centibytes. Greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hackerslash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. Greater delights await. We wish to see you proceed. If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack, a total joke, a waste of time, or a slash.

SPEAKER_01 0:29

Totally killer, pun intended.

SPEAKER_03 0:31

We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, we're rating these movies with a perspective we've gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast. This week I'm joined by the Superfly space guy Mac.

SPEAKER_01 0:44

So if I solve it, do I get a prize?

SPEAKER_03 0:46

The cowardly creeper Ryan, save your breath for screaming. And the classic horror connoisseur Sean.

SPEAKER_02 0:53

We have such sights to show you.

SPEAKER_03 0:55

This episode is brought to you by Manscaped, who is the best in below the waist grooming. This week we're checking out a reimagining of a Clive Barker tale we originally reviewed in episode 231. The early to mid-2000s saw a wave of remakes and reboots of classic slasher icons, including Michael Myers, Freddie Krueger, and Jason Voorhees. While Chucky would gain his own reimagining in 2019, one group of iconic villains have been intended for reboot since 2006. After a revolving door of writers, directors, and production studio interests. A remake was greenlit in 2019, and David Bruckner was charged with leading a new take on Clive Barker's 1986 horror novella The Hellbound Heart. The film ultimately released on Hulu and follows a young woman who comes into possession of a puzzle box. What she doesn't know, however, is the box is designed to summon a group of supernatural beings from another dimension. This week, we're talking about the newest retelling of Hellraiser. Now, Sean, the original Hellraiser was a universal slash for us a few episodes ago. How would you have rated it had you been on that episode with us?

SPEAKER_02 2:01

I definitely would have rated the original uh Hellraiser a slash for sure. So I think we would have we if I had I been on that episode, it would have still been a universal slash for sure. I remember watching that movie as a kid, probably at like 10 or 11, which is maybe too young to watch a movie like that. I don't know. But uh I just remember not understanding the film until I watched it in later years, and now I remember it as being a really strange, kinky, gory, macabre, really grotesque, wet film.

SPEAKER_03 2:34

So wet. Wet is such a specific and accurate way to describe that movie. I think we all kind of, you know, lamented about how gooey it was uh in our last episode about it. And I remember having that same sensation, right? That how didn't anyone allow me to watch this when I was that young? It seems absolutely insane. But uh, for the rest of you here, what were you expecting going into this?

SPEAKER_01 2:58

You know, one of the reasons I've always enjoyed Hulra films is it's like one of the few times I think we get to see the really bad guys win. Um, so primarily for me, it's like seeing Pinhead really get to do some some cool, gnarly stuff. But the trouble is there's been some like attempts at a recast of Pinhead in the past that just didn't go over well. So I had no idea what to expect because obviously I hadn't watched it yet, but I just knew that that kind of tainted my expectations for this film when we got into it. I think I mentioned it right as we started the wash party for it that I was just like, it's not Doug Bradley. And so I think it's probably going to be, you know, not as good of a pinhead. But I did think that we were gonna get either more gore or just like better gore and like more torture for sure.

SPEAKER_04 3:42

I think the biggest thing that I was considering is like this movie going straight to Hulu. And I know that like, you know, we don't live in the straight to DVD era. I get it, like a lot of good things do go straight to streaming, but I don't know, it does still have an impact. And fortunately, I had just recently watched Prey on Hulu, and that left such a good feeling with me, and I was like, man, why wasn't this in theaters? And so this movie, I kind of went in kind of thinking the same thing. Like, why isn't this in theaters? Is this gonna be good enough that it should have been? I think my expectations were pretty mid. I think like I was afraid that they would try to do too much and it wouldn't go well. And I had heard Max say that like before it hasn't gone well trying to redo Pinhead. So I was just a bit skittish, I'd say, about it.

SPEAKER_02 4:26

Yeah, I think uh I think whenever you're rebooting a film of this caliber, right, with such iconic characters, especially one that's become like a cult classic, uh, you have high expectations for for the film to be great. I remember the original being like a strange mix of kinky gore turning desires like into twisted perversions of pain and and torture. Um but that be that being said, I was really hoping that this this movie was going to do Clive Barker's vision justice. And so I did have high expectations for this film and and really hoping that it was gonna deliver.

SPEAKER_03 5:00

Yeah, I don't know that I I came in with so many expectations beyond an open mind, but I did have hopes. And I really, really hoped that we'd get the Centibytes more front and center this time around. Based on the trailer alone, I went in thinking that they're gonna feel a little bit more vicious and feel less kind of like a consequence or a side effect, like they did in the original movie. When we got the trailer, I remember sitting down in a break room and I couldn't hear it at the time, but I was so excited about what I saw. And I saw the intensity of the priest, who is this version of Pinhead. I was really excited to hear about Jamie Clayton's casting as the priest, and I remember just seeing the intensity of some of these changes, some of the centibytes and their appearance. And so I had high hopes for it. And I'll say that we watched this as a watch party, our first ever like community watch party uh leading into an episode. And man, was it so fun? First off, I think this is a great movie to watch as community, and it has some of these moments that make you feel a little squeamish at times, and it's such a good movie to have someone next to you or you know, virtually across from you, uh, to join in on those reactions as well. But I remember just feeling tense, I remember feeling hopeful, I remember being a little bit shocked in some moments, and really I was left with a feeling that I haven't felt gore-wise since I saw Terrifier for the first time. And now let me be clear: that's not like this movie is terrifier, because absolutely not. You cannot get that one kill you get in terrifier in this, but it gave me a similar sensation of just like chills and heebie jeebies.

SPEAKER_01 6:51

Yeah, I mean, the the effects in the gore were increased for sure, but they were fantastic. The thing that I liked while we were watching this is that it was just like a very different story from the original film and from the novella, like completely different. Um obviously based on the same type of material and the same lore, but I found it compelling. You know, when we're watching this, like it kept my interest throughout. And I didn't hate pinhead. I think nobody can perfectly match Doug Bradley's presence, but this film proves that it's okay if you can give us a powerful, beautifully evil pinhead, or in this case, the the the older name, the Hell Priest.

SPEAKER_04 7:25

I feel similar things to what you guys felt. One of the things that like pulled most of my attention in this movie was the effects and the character design. Obviously, the Cenobites, like we said in the original Hellraiser, they're the star of the show. So it's absolutely what I cared the most about. The gore hits like the perfect spot for me. It doesn't go to terrifier for me at all. It's just like exactly what you expect from like sex demons, you know?

SPEAKER_02 7:48

Yeah, I think uh first of all, I gotta say, I really enjoyed the score of the film. I thought the music was really was really on point. I I immediately think of like the music that was playing when going into, you know, going into the mansion. I thought that the music throughout the film, this the cinematography, visually, it was very stunning. At the same time, my feelings while watching the movie, there was so much things that were visually really impressive and and gory and different things like that, but I didn't uh I didn't feel shock in any way, which was interesting, right? So when I think of uh Chris, when you when you said like that reminded you of Terrifier, right? I think of Terrifier as like it's just so intensely brutal and like cringy and hard to like watch some of that stuff happen. And this one, like when I'm watching, when I'm watching this film, I'm like almost captivated. I'm like watching it because it's like it's it's it's bringing me in, right? But I dem I never felt so shocked that I was like it was standoffish in a way.

SPEAKER_03 8:51

Totally agree. Yeah, there's a lot in here that deviates from the original without shocking you. I did appreciate how much we get of a different approach to the lore or the presence of the Cinebites, and even just like the journey of like the Lament configuration, and even this movie and the way it approaches its characters. You know, we start things off pretty hot and heavy in the original film, and it kind of just goes from there. And in this one, we get almost like a slasher approach, right? We start off with a moment, and in a lot of it's like, you know, what what you see in the trailer, but then it kind of gets you on a slow burn where it's setting up the rest of the story. And at no point did I ever feel bored, which I think is is something that surprises me. Because in the original, you had the slower pacing of you know, someone kind of being resurrected and having to have these sacrifices made to them so that they could ex escape the centipes, but that's not the case here. And it plays with that in a very interesting way. So I I found their approach refreshing. I found it surprising that they could take the centibytes in this direction, but I don't know that I ever felt even felt disappointed with anything.

SPEAKER_01 10:08

Yeah, you know, you you mentioned kind of the pacing that they have in this film, and it's kind of crazy to me thinking about it that it's only two hours. Like this could have been, hey, we're gonna make two films. They could have split this up how they wanted to, because I was really surprised how quickly we dove into Hellraiser lore and then like how deep we went into it for a two-hour reboot. Like this, they they gave a lot of details that we didn't even hear about for probably two or maybe even three movies in the in the original setup. So it was impressive. Like they wanted to get some quick facts out, they wanted to get some lore out, we wanted to dive into why things happen. And I I didn't, again, I wasn't disappointed, but like I didn't expect that in something that happened, you know, something that's made decades later.

SPEAKER_03 10:46

You know, that's a great point. I was actually just talking about this movie at work today, and someone asked if this is as vague as some of the other movies are about you know, just like the lore. And I didn't say that it was as vague. I didn't say that obviously I don't think this movie like hands you everything you need to know. Like, this isn't like centibytes for dummies, but it is kind of starter pack for Hellraiser, and I think what surprised me most is how great of an entry point this is to the Hellraiser universe and franchise in terms of just piecing things together. You know, I think Maria, you mentioned in our original Hellraiser episode that you're just along for the ride and you're not questioning anything because like why would you even need to? But this one, I think for me, gave me a similar experience because it was actually explaining things throughout the process, not just because it was so fascinating, I didn't have time to wonder.

SPEAKER_04 11:39

Yeah, I agree. I was in a similar situation with this one where I was just like a bit along for the ride. Some of it was explained, some of it I was like, eh, I don't know. But I just again literally stepped my step back for a second and thought, the point is not for me to understand this, because these are, you know, again, like interdimensional BDSM people. Okay, like I don't need to understand. That's not the point. But I think my like biggest surprise was how different the story was and how different the Centibytes felt for me. And we'll talk about that more, but to me, they were not the same thing. Like us, maybe aside from Pinhead, aside from Pinhead, the whole rest of the group, they just felt very different in this movie versus the original Hellraiser.

SPEAKER_02 12:24

Yeah, I I gotta agree with you, uh, Ryan, for sure. I think some of the things that I that I felt and and some of the surprises that I noticed was aside from like the story being different and things like that, I think the Cenobites uh visually were just different for me. I don't know if it was bad or good. I will definitely like unpack it later for sure, but I think different definitely. I I remember telling you, Chris, uh, when I watched this film uh for the first time the other day that like I was kind of on the fence with it, right? And I think about that, and I I don't I don't know why I couldn't really put my finger on it, but it one of the things that kind of stood out for me was was the character development, right? Like I don't I didn't feel like invested in any of these characters personally, and maybe that's just a personal thing, I don't know. Um, we could probably talk about that a little bit more as well, but the characters didn't resonate with me.

SPEAKER_04 13:17

Sometimes when you just show up to like a bad time in some people's lives, you're like, well, you've already gone down the wrong path. I uh there will be no relating to you at this point. But I don't yeah, I don't know. The characters had an interesting arc, and again, for me, like Hellraiser, I don't think was particularly scary, but the Cenobites had a certain thing to them. This one maybe doesn't, so I didn't find it to be scary at all.

SPEAKER_01 13:41

Okay, I'm gonna explain why I don't. I mean, I'm not scared of any movie, but I didn't really find this movie scary because to me, Hellraiser has always been kind of like the horror version of like Marvel superheroes, because I'm finally getting to see bad guys win, and each of them has like a like their own personality, their own powers in many cases, their own like cool uniforms that they wear. So it's like kind of watching the X-Men from Hell. Um, so it's it's almost in this movie, especially a little too action-y to even be like scary. I think if you were to watch the OG when you were 11 years old, you might be like, I'm not gonna turn the lights out tonight. Um when you if you were to watch this one, of course, you'd yeah, you'd probably think the same thing. But like as an adult, I don't really find like a lot of a lot of scary topics here. It's just like watching another cool action-y movie with with sweet, gory effects.

SPEAKER_04 14:29

There's also something about Hellraiser that feels like slightly opt-in, you know, like like I'm not at risk of this because I'm not playing with that box. So I'm good.

SPEAKER_03 14:39

Again, it's the whole fuck around and find out, right? Like we've talked about this recently as of late. And I don't know that I 100% agree that the original would seem a little bit more fear-inducing than this one, because in the original it's just slimy and gross, and there is someone evil who was up and said come to him, and then he was trying to like slip his way out of it, right? But in this movie, they make the CentaBites much more threatening. And yes, it is opt-in, right? So if you don't opt in, you're good. But then again, a lot of the people in this movie didn't opt in either, and they were just trying to be supportive, and they were just trying to be a good friend, uh, a good support system, and then they got shanked every once in a while, and then here we are, right? So this movie I think actually paints the bigger picture of like there are consequences that will reach you, even if you're not trying to be invested or involved at all. Whereas in the original Hellraiser, yes, there are some people who were not directly trying to be involved, but they did have a little bit more of a hand in what was happening. And I think the just the threat level of the centibytes in this one was much more interesting. And while I don't think it makes the movie scary, I do think that the centibytes are more frightening than the original for me personally, which I think is a fresh take.

SPEAKER_02 16:03

Interesting. I I think yeah, the the Cinobites are definitely frightening to look at. Uh, when I think of this movie, when I think of the original, I I don't think this movie is scary. I don't think it's frightening. If I could describe this movie in a in a in like a few words, I would describe it as beautifully grotesque. Where the movie lacks in like jump scares and being actually scary as far as you being frightened throughout the film uh or getting that heart rate up, it makes up for in like the the lore and the mythology of all of this and the scenabites and the and the visually stunning set design. So I think I I don't think it's frightening, but definitely grotesque and beautiful to look at.

SPEAKER_03 16:42

Yeah, and I suppose I should clarify that I did not see other versions of Hellraiser, right? Like I haven't seen anything that came after the original. So I'm sure that the centibytes there get much more action and are much more threatening and are much more dangerous. But I think when you think about the biggest scenes in the original, those centibytes tear people to shreds or tear people to part, but they were very much in the background of things. And so, yes, pinhead's chains are really just doing a lot of the work here, but in this one, I felt th more of a threat from the others, which I found different.

SPEAKER_01 17:19

Yeah, they they made some some great changes here. I think the the fact that they went with a new story was a fantastic choice, right? I mean, the novella and the and the movie, they're like nearly identical when it comes to the story, but they kept things really fresh here, like fresh characters, fresh story, fresh take on the Cenobites. They were like, we're not just gonna make it again for 2022. We want this to be a compelling movie all on its own. And I think uh that makes it enjoyable if you're someone who enjoyed the like the original bazillion movies that were out, or if you're someone who's like brand new to it. I think you can still get in uh into it either way, because if if they just rehash what we had already seen, this would have been so boring, and we would all have been disappointed. And so it was a great choice to change things up a bit in in some smart ways.

SPEAKER_04 18:05

Yeah, I think I agree. It hits a weird note for originality for me, because obviously it's a a reboot. I can't fully say it's original in its approach, but it does have some pieces that are there.

SPEAKER_02 18:15

So this movie gets originality points for me, just for being able to, I think what you were saying, Mac, bring being able to bring a fresh take on the mythology and the lore surrounding the Cenobites and like the Rubik's Cube of Death, you know what I mean? The film does a good job bringing you what you would expect, like as a fan of the franchise, while like finding a way to stand out on its own and bringing like a modern and fresh adaptation to the franchise. Um, so I think it has to get some originality points for that. What I would say is like, how cool would it be to get like a pinhead origin story? I know we've gotten origin stories or tidbits throughout the I believe at least the first two films. That's all I've seen. I've seen Hellra original Hellraiser and the initial sequel. I know there's like 10 films or 11 films or something like that. I have definitely haven't seen all of those, but I know they kind of give you some history as to how Pinhead became to be. Maybe it exists. I don't know. Maybe maybe it's out there, but it would be cool to see the actual story of Pinhead.

SPEAKER_01 19:15

Yeah, keep watching because if if you go back, if you go back in time and start watching the other movies, you will get a complete story, basically a complete story for why Pinhead is Pinhead. Um, but we have a new Pinhead now, and I think it was a great choice not to start the movie there because they could have just done that. They could have just said, let's tell the story of how we get the Hell Priest, and that'll be the new Hellraiser. And again, I think it would have been boring. Just like, you know, a couple years ago, somebody decided to do something very similar for another horror icon and it didn't go well looking at you, Michael Myers. And so I think if they had done that here, it would have been really bad. I think it's great if they can make a movie that invests you in the universe, and then you can go and dive in and learn more about characters. Because the I mean, Clive Barker like has a lot of detail that's out there. You could probably just make a spin-off movie in the universe, and it would still be really interesting. Which kind of bothered me about like when we got to the ending of this film, because that's where it kind of left what I had in my mind as like the established way of doing things in Clive Barker's Hellraiser universe. I think it was it was a solid ending, you know, enough, and it worked for the movie. I wasn't mad at it, but we just like we hit this line where had they crossed it, we would have been in cheesiness territory. But thankfully, I don't think they ful I don't think they fully crossed it, right? I think they just tiptoed, they went to the threshold, but they didn't keep going.

SPEAKER_04 20:35

So I would say, as a human who is not like exceptionally knowledgeable on the Hellraiser universe, I've seen the original one and this one, the end of like the story didn't feel out of place or anything for me. It didn't feel like it, it didn't feel like a change where sometimes when people deviate from like the original story, it feels like it. You're like, what the heck? Who wrote that? It didn't feel that way for me. However, when you're talking about the ending, I have to just say, visually, the very last scene of this movie, um, it it could be a nightmare for how bad it is. Not because it's scary or anything, but just because there are pieces of it where I was just like, What, why is it why does it look like that? I it's all based around how it looks, not what's happening, just why does it look like that? It looked horrible.

SPEAKER_02 21:23

That's interesting that you didn't like it. I thought the ending and the scene that you're talking about, I think I thought it was awesome. I thought it was visually really cool to see. I I I really enjoyed it. So it's really interesting that you got that take from it, but that ending was super successful for me, and and it solely is because of that last scene.

SPEAKER_03 21:42

Yeah, I actually appreciate it to an extent because it was more practical than CGI. And after like doing a little bit of research and learning just how little CGI they use in this movie is pretty damn impressive. So I think the ending could have looked better, absolutely, but I like the The compromises that were made in the effort of like preserving a nod to the original and its practical effects. But I will say that the ending, Mackie, you mentioned they went to a line and didn't fully cross it. I think they went over it just a bit. I really do. I didn't hate the ending by any means. I didn't even dislike it. At the end of the day, I was satisfied with how this story concluded, but I do feel like it was a lot of going somewhere to not get very far at all. I think we end up in a with a really, really cool shot at the end that is promising, but it's kind of like just like a deflating moment. And I will elaborate more on that in the second half. Again, the what's like what's on paper is how this movie concludes. I'm fine with, but emotionally it just kind of went flat.

SPEAKER_01 22:46

It's kind of like the note we hit in They Slash Them.

SPEAKER_03 22:49

You know what? No. I think that would be unfair to Hellraiser 2022 because they slash them was just a terrible ending.

SPEAKER_04 22:55

A terrible movie.

SPEAKER_01 22:56

Right, but you have that sort of feeling where you're like watching it and you're going, please, okay. This one didn't get that bad. And and and I'll I'll stick to my idea that they didn't fully cross the line. I just think the stakes were so high in this film, and Hellraiser has a history of saying, F it, we don't care about anybody, that I wish they had ended things in in a similar way. I wish they would have just said, if you like have grown close to a character, we are most definitely not gonna treat that character well. I I truly wish they had done that here.

SPEAKER_03 23:24

Well, clearly we're moderately divided on the ending, but let's see how that impacts our ratings. Now, as we consider how we're gonna score this movie, Ryan, what's the gore score?

SPEAKER_04 23:34

The gore score for this one is pretty high. It's not the insane terrifier vibes, but it's a high gore score. Well, what about the animal report? The animal report is joyfully not bad. It's all good in the hood, no need to worry about anything. Fantastic. So while you will cringe, it won't be for a dog at least. Yeah, this movie is about torturing humans, not dogs.

SPEAKER_03 23:54

Fantastic. Let's go ahead and get into our ratings then. Hellraiser from 2022, now streaming on Hulu. Is it a hacker or slash?

SPEAKER_02 24:01

What I was saying before is at first I didn't know how I felt about this movie. There was something that I couldn't quite put my finger on. What ended up happening was this movie made me like the movie when I really wanted to love the movie. I was able to watch it a second time through. Fortunately, I was able to fit that in, and I feel as though the movie did really pay respect to Clive Barker's vision while being able to bring some of its own originality to it. The movie is visually beautiful and beautifully unsettling, if you will. I I gotta give the movie a slash. It's a slash for me, dog. I don't think it's perfect, but it did grab my attention and it captivated me through the entirety of the film.

SPEAKER_04 24:38

I'm gonna agree with a lot of things that you've said. One of the big things that like felt weird for me is again how different the Centibytes are here. Like they they just don't have like the magic that they have in the original for me. And like, I don't know, like the I feel like they have like a a mag a magnetism, a desire about them. Not that I'm attracted to them because they're horrific looking people, but I don't know. The first one there was just a special spark. And for me, this one lacked that. And you know, we kind of mentioned the characters were just kind of like I didn't find myself like hugely invested in them, but overall I enjoyed this. This felt like a very good take on just like I want to say a classic horror movie, but not in a sense of like classic horror, just like pretty straightforward, like something's gonna happen, we have to go some places, see some people do some things, we end up in a final place with like something going on. And I was happy with that. Not it, I don't mean that in a bad way at all. So this is gonna be a slash for me. I don't prefer it over the original, but it's not a bad movie.

SPEAKER_01 25:41

Yeah, this this film thankfully exceeded my expectations. I think it was successful in delivering a satisfying new take on an established franchise, which is what a reboot is supposed to do. Jamie Clayton serves us a powerful pinhead, and Odessa Azion as Riley gives us someone who's troubled and someone who's worth caring about, not only to the other characters, but I think as you know, as a viewer. The supporting cast I think just does a good enough job. But the effects, the costumes, the props, the set design, and the amped up centibytes are like next level. I I think it's okay that we have the original Hellraiser and then this Hellraiser as separate films that we can enjoy without having to have them compete against each other. I think this is a good time and it's a slash.

SPEAKER_03 26:24

You said it very well, Mac. This movie is absolutely a good time. I remember finishing this movie and just kind of having my jaw hung open for a little bit because it was so much more than I again, not necessarily expected, but hoped, right? I hoped for more threatening centibytes. I hoped for something that would put them more front and center and would allow them to have more presence. And this movie had its moments where it gave in some ways I didn't want it to give. It gave me things I didn't want to receive, it gave me a character that I was ready to go for a very long time throughout the movie. Uh, but it also keyed up some really satisfying moments. And then the more I sat back and and thought about this movie from start to finish, the more I appreciated the architecture of the movie. Because it wasn't just the amazing visual effects, it wasn't just that. It wasn't just the presence of Jamie Clayton as powerful as she is. This movie did a thing where it took a complicated story, a complicated antagonist, and it really simplified the entire thing and it made it palatable and easy to digest in a way that still leaves me curious, and in a way that gave me a more satisfaction than I I ever thought I could have from another Hellraiser movie. So I don't know that I would say I that I like this more than or equal to the original. I think this is a separate take, right? I think as someone who loved the original as a child and then kind of like re-experienced it again, I don't think it's even fair to put these two in the same ballpark. But I think this is a strong movie on its own two legs. It has its own merit and it's a slash. Now, with that, Hellraiser from 2022 heads under Universal Slash. It runs in the family. There we go. Now you can find this movie streaming on Hulu, so go check it out. Then join us in the second half so we can crack open that box together. See you in a bit.

SPEAKER_04 28:44

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SPEAKER_03 29:45

Welcome back, folks. You are now entering the spoiler zone for the 2022 Hellraiser now streaming on Hulu, which has earned a universal slash. Now we have a lot to unpack here, but before we get into the specifics of our ratings, Ryan, take us through the kills.

SPEAKER_04 29:59

So we get a bunch of interesting deaths from this, and honestly, a lot of them are um very chainy, very chain-heavy. My favorite is actually probably like the least exciting of them all, but what were your favorite kills?

SPEAKER_01 30:12

So my favorite kill is Nora going out in the van, getting the back ripped off at the end of it. Loved everything about it. Just like a really good Hellraiser kill. Like the feeling of seeing her friends just going further and further away, feeling that helplessness and then being trapped in mid-air, right? And then like she's like trying to pray her way out of it. And famously, Pinhead laughs at those kind of situations. And similarly, here it's like you're you're doing this uh to no avail. Nothing's gonna come of your prayers here. And um, yeah, I'm gonna have my way with you and rip apparently your backflesh off.

SPEAKER_03 30:49

Man, and also the internal view we got. Oof.

SPEAKER_01 30:52

Yeah, we saw a lot.

SPEAKER_02 30:53

Yeah, definitely. I I I gotta say, my my favorite kill in this movie, it's interesting, right? I think it's not a real kill. So my favorite kill was when Riley is first encountering the Xenobite and literally gets like the the mark, like what is the pentagram or the mark or whatever carved into her chest, and then her chest like implodes, I guess, for lack of better words, and then you see the chains coming through the hole of the chest. Like, I know it wasn't an actual kill because it was kind of like a a vision or a dream or something of that nature, but it was uh one of the coolest scenes, one of the coolest kill scenes in the movie.

SPEAKER_03 31:36

Ooh, okay, I have to agree with that, and it actually is part of my favorite scene in the whole movie, but as far as a death goes, I'm torn between two. And Ryan, I'll let you take yours before I reveal what my second one was. But I think my most emotionally satisfying kill was Trevor finally getting wrecked because fuck Trevor. I was ready for him to go from the get-go.

SPEAKER_04 31:59

Yeah, that guy sucked a lot, and honestly, it was quite clear that he sucked. Like, I don't know. I think I don't know. I'm sure everybody could tell, but I was like, dang girl, you don't you don't see this man being who he is right in front of you. That's the worst thing. My favorite kill was actually the chatterer, and mostly it was because of how impactful that moment was. I didn't know they would kill one of their own. And you know, we didn't really see him get torn apart, but the unexpected moment where he just literally explodes, it was amazing. I loved it. I was I was not prepared for that one at all. All the others, I felt like we had enough lead up, but all of a sudden I'm like, oh man, this man's getting chained up by his own people, and then poof, he's gone. Honestly, that was my second favorite.

SPEAKER_03 32:43

Ooh. Because it was the shock of the moment. It was the, oh wait, all bets are off.

SPEAKER_04 32:48

Yeah, it was pretty good. And the last thing I want to say about like deaths and kills, I think that we'll talk a lot about effects as we like go through, but the kill effects in this movie all to me felt really good. Like I I really enjoyed almost all of them. And again, I did kind of mention the last scene with Voight being turned into a Cenobite. I did not like that, but the rest of it felt pretty good. There are those some moments in this movie where the effects don't hit for me. Like, I don't know. This is a very weird one. Sometimes I'm obsessed with them and sometimes I'm not. But the kills all felt really good. Like that was like their focus.

SPEAKER_01 33:25

They did have some really cool stuff visually. The the kills are are part of it. The centibytes are another part of it. But my favorite thing to look at here is when the centibytes show up and people like are seeing the rooms and the world change around them because it felt it felt like real enough, you know, because these when we see these kills and we see like your flesh getting like blown off or peeled off or whatever it's gonna be, it like it looks pretty great. Some of the times we're looking at the centibytes and they kind of look a little too polished, and so like that kind of works, but when the world around them starts slowly and then more speedily separating and the walls are moving, and they just see like rock and earth and whatever, like hell, I guess. That looks so cool, and it reminds me of reminds me of like a music video for some reason, but I just think it worked especially well in this movie.

SPEAKER_02 34:14

Yeah, I I agree. I I think those effects were really cool. Best visual element for me outside of that would be the actual effects of the kills, the gore. I think the gore in the film, it was just super tasteful, right? Like the gore was there, it was in your face, but it was it was without sounding like an absolute creep or serial killer, it was beautiful to look at in a way. Like it was just really cool the way that they presented it. Um, and it wasn't just uh it wasn't something where I had to like cringe or look away from or anything like that. So the visual effects of the actual gore and the kills were were where it's at for me.

SPEAKER_04 34:55

Yeah, I totally agree. I'm gonna give a specific one that was my favorite, which is when Voigt has the like mechanism inside of him removed and his muscles and his bones and his skin and his tendons and everything starts to come back together. It was so, so freaking good. I was just kind of amazed in that moment. Like, man, I don't know exactly what y'all did, but I love it. It felt very practical. A lot of things here felt very practical, but that was my absolute favorite, like, visual effect moment.

SPEAKER_02 35:27

So cool.

SPEAKER_03 35:28

I think that's the one that made me cringe the most, not necessarily because it was the grossest looking, but because of thinking of all that pain, right? Because we see the nerves and the tendons all torn up into that gear, and to just imagine that just gave me chills. But visually for me, the centibytes absolutely take the stage. We have them in almost like black robes and and PVC or kind of like BDSM adjacent clothing in the original franchise, but to see them here where their own flesh and their own muscle and bone and ligaments are what's like kind of adorning them, absolutely chilling. These centibytes look badass, and I think that coupled with the cinematography, coupled with how they kind of exist in the corners of the frame and the periphery of the shots, is really what builds so much anticipation, it builds so much suspense in this movie, is what really helps deliver the sentiment of the movie. And I think that element of this is one of the like most shining stars of this film.

SPEAKER_04 36:34

Okay, I feel you like the Cenobites definitely have something, but I without hating on these Cenobites, they don't hit for me. They feel like aliens in this movie. This feels like alien, this is alien BDSM people, and I don't want alien BDSM people. I want interdimensional BDSM people that just like have, you know, like there was just like a feeling, there was a style that they had, you know, like the big boy was wearing those like round glasses. There's just a thing that they had in the last one that they don't have here. They are still something here, but it is not the same. And I I understand they're different movies, but like, man, I just miss like the sexy centibytes. Back in my day, they were black negligee. Back in my day, they wore some leather.

SPEAKER_03 37:22

Yeah, okay, so him wearing black sunglasses is enough sci-fi for me, bro. Like, they're like, you know, interdimensional space people, but here they're it's just their flesh and they're exposed. You know what I mean? Like, this feels more like torture and body modifications versus the original where they kind of look just like supernatural entities.

SPEAKER_04 37:42

But it was like pushed too far that it didn't feel like real body modification anymore. Like some of them, a couple of them did, but a bunch of the peripheral ones, like it just felt like, okay, they've just been like unwrapped, and I don't know, it just didn't, I just didn't hit the same. That's all I got.

SPEAKER_01 37:57

I think if I had to like use analogies for it, the Cenobites from the earlier movies were like, hey, BDSM is raunchy and gross and we shouldn't talk about it. And in this movie, it's like, no, this is accepted, and we understand that everyone has different likes and different interests, and now we're gonna let people flourish with it.

SPEAKER_02 38:14

I've got to align with Ryan on this one. When you when you're looking back at the original Cenobites versus this one, like, yes, visually they were cool, they were awesome. Like you can see, like visually very cool, but yes, when someone said earlier they were polished, like they do feel more like I'm watching a sci-fi movie than a horror movie. And you know, you can definitely have a good mixture of both, but something about these um just didn't hit me the same as the original Cenobites. Uh, it didn't it didn't ruin the movie for me, but definitely uh I have to agree with you, Ryan.

SPEAKER_01 38:52

It's the difference between the Toby Maguire Spider-Man costume, right? And then like the current CGI Spider-Man costumes.

SPEAKER_03 38:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 38:59

Where it's like, I know it's not a video game, I know it's not all computer-y, but I can tell it's at Uncanny Valley.

SPEAKER_03 39:05

Okay, look, it may be uncanny valley and it may be polished to you, but it really shined for me. I thought that these were like my preferred aesthetic for the Cinebites, especially when we get a moment where she's pulling a pin from her head and we see how long that pin is, we saw how deep that must go inside of her. But when we think about the aesthetic of the Cynabites, and we think about their silhouettes and how they appear in the shadows. Man, we get that scene when Riley's kind of like at the playground, and we have this moment where she's cut, she is marked for death, so to speak, she has to identify other sacrifices if she's not gonna go with them. We have that moment, Sean, that you mentioned earlier with the chains kind of explode from her. The tension, the trippiness of that scene, and and marrying that, not with just how fucking insane that scene is, but framing that around her own addiction. And it's you know, almost as if she can't even trust herself. She certainly has to know better, but then you have to wonder okay, I took this, I've never hallucinated before, but the fact that I took something means that I'm not entirely reliable, and nobody really believes her except for her, and then of course Trevor, who's just a piece of shit. But the tension of that scene and then the sadness that I felt when Matt finally showed up to help her, and you know that he's gonna get got, and he gets got because he was trying to help. He was up worried about her, and because he wanted to be a good brother, he ends up getting got. It's tragic. But the explosion of the chains from her was breathtaking, and I think my favorite thing to look at in the entire movie, which made it my favorite scene.

SPEAKER_04 40:50

You know, that's also my favorite scene, and it is less for the emotions of it all, and more for how freaking crazy it is that she's going through this. The again, like we've said, the mark in her chest, the chains coming from her, but then the most important part is the chains hooking in to her brother. Oh my gosh. And that was like the first real thing that we saw, you know, and the way it like pulled at him, pulled him up out of bed. Oh, absolutely creepy, so disgusting. It I I can feel the skin being pulled from me, and I I feel like I would just die on that alone, much less all the other torture.

SPEAKER_02 41:27

Yeah, uh that definitely uh I love that scene. I um I'm not gonna pick that one because we gotta talk about some other ones. My favorite scene in this movie was that ending scene. Like I love I just loved being able to see uh Voigt being transformed into a Cenobite. I had never seen that before. I don't know that that's ever been shown in any movie in the franchise up until this point. And I thought it was just outside of just being really cool to see that transformation, it was just visually very, very, very cool.

SPEAKER_01 41:59

I did appreciate that scene. I actually enjoyed it as well. Um, they do have some characters that become centibytes in some of the other films. I don't think they're as like flat out in front of you and kind of cool to look at. Like almost it's like when Tommy, the Green Ranger, becomes like the White Ranger or whatever. It's you know, it's cool. But my favorite scene is also about Voigt, but it's when Voigt decides he wants uh to do a takes these backsies and wants to give back his gift. And Ryan, you mentioned the visuals of it where he's put back together. I actually really love watching the gears and everything fall out of his chest. And like piece by piece, chunk by chunk, it's like falling apart and falling out, and then eventually they put it back together. But to see him like try to work his way out with them because they love rules. Cenobites and and Leviathan in general love rules and love order and they love logic. And you can oftentimes in films kind of work things out with them, not really to your benefit, you're always gonna end up owing them. But anytime like people engage with like barters and trades with them, it's always very interesting. And so I love that he's not gonna find a way out, they're not just gonna put them back together. He's gotta owe them something. But I thought it was kind of interesting to see them like do an exchange and know that really what he wanted was power, and then they gave him power. So in this case, of course, he becomes a centibyte. Because what it what else are they gonna do? Put them back together and like go on with your life? Of course not. You gotta take it, you never go back, you always have to keep going to the next threshold.

SPEAKER_03 43:24

Listen, I just could not believe for a fucking moment that this man had the audacity to trap these centipytes, these regular ass employees in his own home and then say, Let me speak to your manager because I want to return. That was some bullshit. I mean, it's a cool moment. Like, I like the outcome that we get. I like the I'm demanding more, but really it's like the tables are turning because there's still a twist. But the fact that that's the way he was framed, I was like, eh.

SPEAKER_01 43:53

Yeah, it it did seem a little a little tacky, I'll say that. Especially because they like, you know, they kind of go with it. They're like looking like Okay, we can't just do a return on this. You don't have your receipt with you. Uh, but we can do an exchange for store credit.

SPEAKER_04 44:06

Yeah, Voigt sucked, but you know, I I understood his motivations and everything that he was doing. I think, like we kind of mentioned, I didn't I wouldn't say I like loved any of these characters. I did enjoy Riley for what she was and what she was trying to do. I just think that there could have been like a little bit more connection. And one of our patrons kind of mentioned, like, I'm tired of people having to just be in full distress for them to have a come-up story. And I to be fair, I don't know that she had a come-up story, but yeah, it is kind of annoying to constantly just like walk in and have a character that's just like at their lowest low. But I didn't hate her, I just didn't love her either. And of course, you know, we've already talked about Trevor sucks. He's the worst. We all hate him as a collective, I hope.

SPEAKER_03 44:53

Yeah, and you frame that, and it's obviously reminiscent of Mia in the Evil Dead reboot. It's this idea of suffering, right? And I think I would understand it more in this movie. I remember being, I think, bothered by this in when when we discussed Evil Dead and how it kind of felt like everybody was just kind of like ganging up on her, and it felt less supportive and more like obligatory. It felt more like a burden. And I remember that dynamic not feeling great. But in this movie, in a in a franchise and in a story that explores suffering, and you know, from some perspectives, is suffering pleasure, is suffering pain. I think it works. I'm not crazy about it still, don't get me wrong. I think it's a bummer of a fucking time that you know she gets through this whole situation. She has a support group who may be infuriating for sure. Like they're not perfect people by any means. Uh, but I think everybody in that situation is, in a way, trying their best, right? And to know that she has to live on the other side of this, knowing that her brother is dead, her brother's roommate is dead, she has her brother's boyfriend with her, she managed to save, but she has to live with that. On top of the fact that she was merely in recovery for her addiction, she's not out of the woods. At any point, she could have relapsed. So she already has so much going on, and this is an added thing on top of it. And we think about like, yes, the Lament configuration, and we think about the grief that she's gonna carry on from now on. I do think this is a more compelling take than the idea of just a really horny Frank and Julia in the original movie. Like, this is a story that I think I'd rather see, but it is imperfect still because Trevor was just nightmarishly bad.

SPEAKER_02 46:44

Yeah, that's uh so that's interesting, right? Because I really don't know how I feel about the addiction undertones throughout the film. My first feelings were like, I don't understand why it has to be there. Maybe I missed something in the message that the movie was attempting to deliver. And, you know, what you just explained, Chris, kind of makes me maybe understand it a little bit more. But what my initial feelings were was that, you know, if it was trying to connect you to Riley as the as the main character, right? But it was it's genuinely hard to empathize with her because she was responsible for putting so many people in harm's way, right? And so that is what for me was a miss. And when I talk about the characters being the part that I didn't like the most, like that's a big factor. Yeah, we hate Trevor, he's a dick. Like, we I didn't even like, I mean, I didn't even like Matt. Like, I think that that's her brother, right? I feel like he, yes, he cared, but he was so like obnoxiously over the top and controlling that it was counterproductive, right? And I think about people that I've had in my life that are like that, and it's like that doesn't that doesn't help anybody. Um, so yeah, I don't know how I felt about the addiction elements in the movie for me, but I gotta say, Jamie Clayton. Jamie Clayton was phenomenal. She did such a good job as the priest. She looked and played the part so well, just so eerie, and and the calmness was so unsettling, right? She just brought that perfect element. And something that I think I I I either read or heard in a review for the movie going into it was that she had a really hard time getting roles in general. And the fact that she landed this role, she she went like all in or nothing and put everything into this role, and you can see it, like you can feel it. Like she she blew the roof off in this role for me. I I didn't even miss the old priest, I didn't even miss the old pinhead in this film, which is so insane to say, right?

SPEAKER_03 48:58

Like, obviously, pinhead is an icon and a legend, but for her to not only give us someone who is worthy of like also wearing the pins in their face, but to be of such equal power, if not surpassing, in some areas, right? I found the original pinhead to be super refined and controlled, and that is what's terrifying. This pinhead, this priest, was also refined, was also controlled. But there is something that feels even more sinister. It felt like you can make a deal with the original pinhead because he's a reasonable guy. He's like, oh, someone got away. Okay, we'll hear you out. Reasonable. But this one, it's like you could try to make a barter, you could try to make an offer. She's probably gonna still get what she wants anyway. Uh, but even at the end, when she shows down with Riley, and Riley doesn't want any of the gifts, and we reveal that like that it that is a lament configuration. There's something about her presence that feels more threatening. You know what I mean? It feels like she is the master of the pain, whereas the original pinhead felt like he was kind of project managing the pain.

SPEAKER_04 50:13

She is definitely I think the star of this movie for me. She is the star cinnabite for sure, but honestly, she takes the whole cake.

SPEAKER_01 50:21

I I have a lot of thoughts about Hellraiser because I think when you watch them for a while, they make it pretty clear there's this element of desire that's important to whether or not people are worthy or are are not worthy, and if they deserve the pain and suffering or if they don't deserve it. And so here it's it's tough because like we're talking about addiction, and so I think it's smart that they didn't go with that desire because this is something that like people can't control. And I think they might have had addicts in other Hellraiser films, and they you know they they prey on it the centibytes, but I think it works here because you could get super deep with it. I'm not gonna get super deep, but I think this destruction that Raleigh brings to the people around her is kind of the point, right? Whether it's with the addiction or whether it's with literal like sex demons, um, there's an impact on her friends and her family. And Trevor, oh Trevor, is just bringing her deeper into the rabbit hole and making things worse. And the friends, the friends know it, the the the family knows it, um, but she doesn't realize it until the very end, when of course she realizes that truly this dude has been ruining her life even more. That and she was thinking that she was gonna get back on top at some point, but no, you were sinking further because this dude kept enticing you and was doing it deliberately, which she didn't realize, of course, at first. Um, but yeah, I think I think Matt, you know, it's it's tough because literally been watching Intervention recently, and so watching that and then then watching this, um, you you kind of want to feel bad, you kind of want to hate him a little bit, uh, but you can't because you know that like what he's going through is an impossible situation. And so it's it's it's one thing I think if you were to watch this with no context, but watching it with the context of like knowing that family members often don't know what the right thing is to do, and sometimes what the right thing is to do seems like the wrong thing, it is like a really impossible situation. And so that anger and that frustration he's feeling on screen with her and the fight that they have, it's like totally real and totally works. But yet her actions continue to destroy everyone around her up until the very end. And so the only thing she can take away from all of it, the only thing that she reasonably can take away from all of it at the very end, being still alive and being still awake, is the knowledge of what has happened and what she did and the effect that she had on those around her. Just like many other people when they realize, man, I've been tearing people's lives apart, and I'm gonna have to remember that if I'm gonna be able to move past this.

SPEAKER_03 52:46

And that's the power of accountability.

SPEAKER_01 52:48

But I just gotta say, where the hell was Butterball?

SPEAKER_03 52:51

I want Butterball.

SPEAKER_02 52:52

Yes, same. We all wanted to see Butterball, right? Where where did where did it go?

SPEAKER_03 52:56

I could pass on Butterball to BH. Well, bro, his eyeballs were sewed together.

SPEAKER_01 53:01

Yeah. So Butterball is interesting because uh I think someone in the chat mentioned this earlier that we have centibytes in the earlier films representing like the seven deadly sins. And so we don't exactly have that take in this movie. We kind of departed from that a lot, I think, here. But um Butterball just feels so greasy and like chunky and gross just to have like Butterball like pop in a frame, you're like, oh, get away, dude. Like so nasty.

SPEAKER_03 53:24

Okay, so to be fair, there was a bit of a contract issue with Butterball. You see, in 1998, he was sitting in on a porch in uh Halloween H2O, and he just got trapped in that property and never could come back. He does have a cameo, like legit. If you watch Halloween H2O, he is a decoration, a Halloween decoration on our front porch.

SPEAKER_01 53:47

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 53:48

Oh yeah, he's a he's a he's on the porch in the opening scene, right? Or like in the very beginning.

SPEAKER_03 53:53

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 53:54

Dang. He's stuck there on that poor porch forever.

SPEAKER_03 53:58

Stuck there with Mirror Max and Dimension Films.

SPEAKER_01 54:01

So I have a question. Uh, this is kind of a character question. Um, I'm gonna agree, of course, that Jamie Clayton is a priest as pinhead, absolutely fantastic. A lot of power, a different type of power that we that we get here, and loved it. Every moment, like there's a presence I think you get. Like if you were to be near this person, first of all, you're like, I just want to look at you because you're so compelling. Uh, but at the same time, I know that you could rip me apart with chains, and for some reason, I'm okay with it a little bit. But the mask, did the mask look like a puppet to anybody else? Like with the hollow face going on, just literally just like human flesh as a mask. I just thought like that looks like not a like an actual puppet that they filmed, but like the character looks like a puppet character.

SPEAKER_03 54:41

Oh, like leatherface, but with pins?

SPEAKER_01 54:44

Not exactly. I mean, it's the hollow face though.

SPEAKER_03 54:47

Like if Leatherface couldn't get it in one clean slice and just had to like segment it out?

SPEAKER_01 54:51

Like like used a spoon to make it?

SPEAKER_03 54:53

Now that's a mashup I want to see.

unknown 54:55

Oh god.

SPEAKER_04 54:56

To answer your question, no, I didn't pick that up.

SPEAKER_01 54:58

Okay. So my real question though, my real question though, is um is Voigt taking over for the chatterer after this film? Because we get that fully open mouth at the very end.

SPEAKER_04 55:08

That's what I was thinking, actually.

SPEAKER_02 55:10

Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah. Good, good uh observation.

SPEAKER_03 55:14

Well, we have an opening, we have a vacancy. He's probably being hired seasonally.

SPEAKER_01 55:18

This brings me to my worst part of the movie. This is just based on previous Hellraiser rules, and this one has a different take on the rules. But like, how is Voigt deemed worthy of being turned into a centibyte? You know, why wasn't he just like, you know, when they when they picked him up by the chain at the very end and dragged him into the like through the ceiling? Why wasn't that his his fate forever? Was that he would just be like hanging around by a chain attached to Leviathan? Uh, and then like, yeah, you're you've got power by being a part of Leviathan, basically.

SPEAKER_03 55:46

You know, he'd been a customer for so many years. Do you see how long it took him to build that house? He has had nothing but uh, you know, configuration products and he was loyal the entire time. I think he earned something in in uh in in compensation.

SPEAKER_04 56:01

I think that was my perception of what was gonna happen. When the chain pulled him up, I thought, oh, he's just gonna be like a part of something in the realm of centibytes and like, you know, kind of be like a slave that that supplies like pain for them or something. Uh that's what I was expecting. I was not expecting like you're one of us now, because he seems like kind of skeezy to be a Cenobite, you know?

SPEAKER_02 56:23

Yeah, but you know, for everything Voigt was like he was the mastermind that brought even more sacrifices, right? Like he was behind, you know, partnering with Trevor and getting Trevor to lure in Riley and then Riley bringing all these sacrifices, not because she wanted to, but you know, like he was the mastermind behind all of the blood that was that was given, right? And so maybe that's what deemed him worthy. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_03 56:50

Do you think he's gonna be the little bitch of the Cenobites, though? Like, do you think he's gonna be making their Starbucks runs?

SPEAKER_02 56:55

Oh, for sure. For sure. He's like the he's like the new kid on the block. Like he's getting punked until until he's not the new kid on the block.

SPEAKER_03 57:02

He's for sure gonna get hazed like crazy, and then he's gonna be the one who has to file HR complaints, and it's gonna be a whole thing, and then he's gonna get promoted to a different centibyte position, and then they're gonna like wonder why the fuck did we let this guy in here anyway? It's gonna be a problem. Like the guy wanted to speak to your manager before he could even be a centibyte. Like, that's just not okay.

SPEAKER_01 57:23

What happens, you know, like a couple years in, and he's like, hey guys, look, I appreciate you know the change and everything. It's pretty cool. Like my like my little outfit and everything. Um, but I really want my lips back. And I think you got, you know, you've made some some concessions from me before, but I think I deserve to be able to speak using my mouth. Okay. So I just I could see I could see that where like later on he gets he gets kind of soured by the experience. But okay, so conversely though, so that was the worst part. And then the other part of it is how are the victims deemed deserving of um what they get? Because, you know, in in a lot of the other movies, not everyone always I think is fully deserving, but a lot of the other movies, like people seek the box, they seek the cube, and that desire for something is what causes them to be like deserving of of the punishment they get. But like, did Matt deserve to go out like this? I don't think like the dynamic here changed where it's like you can change somebody with this, it's a weapon you can use against others, and you just stand back while they get eaten up.

SPEAKER_03 58:22

Sometimes you just get stabbed and that's life. Them's the breaks, kid.

SPEAKER_04 58:26

Yeah, I do think it there was a bit of like why why is this happening to them kind of thing? It didn't seem to have the same you sought this out energy that the original did. I totally agree. I've already mentioned my worst part, so I'll just go over it briefly again. It's Voigt when he's ripped apart at the end. I love the idea of it, and it's not that I hated the visual as a whole, but honestly, this movie's so good it isn't particularly easy to find a worse part. But for me, it just felt very photoshopped. I know it wasn't probably at all, but it felt that way. I don't know. There was just something about it where things just didn't quite work out, and obviously it's a dude being, you know, having his skin ripped apart. So maybe I should be more forgiving. But again, there's not that much bad going on here, so that's all I got.

SPEAKER_03 59:15

Okay, look, I think it's interesting that you found that is your worst part and not not only Trevor's existence, but how many times Trevor got laid and how much we saw of Trevor in this film. I could have done with a hundred percent less Trevor sex in this movie. Thank you. Famously, trash people get laid a lot. It's a thing. Listen, I guess you know what the sex was reasonable and uh intentional in the original, but it just goes to show how much Riley was exploited, and I get the point of it, but I fucking hated it. It was even before we realized that Trevor's a total piece of shit, it was just uncomfortable. I disliked it, it was intimacy that you could still see through. Like obviously, the situation just wasn't all there. And then we had to see his butt later. I mean, I know some people are into the butt. I'm not into the butt. I feel like we didn't need to see the butt.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:08

Listen, maybe we all know that if you have sex in a movie, in a horror movie, you're going to die, right? So maybe, Trevor, we just needed to see Trevor have sex so we can validate that he's going to die.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:19

But then Riley didn't die.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:21

True.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:22

But maybe she, you know, she just played a part in ensuring Trevor's death.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:26

There we go. Weaponized the sex. Got it. Love it.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:29

That being said, we'll see how this is taken. But the worst part for me is the feeling that there was no main villain. Even though Jamie did an amazing job as the priest, we don't really see her come in until pretty far into the film. And yes, we see a good amount of the Cenobites throughout the film. Uh, we definitely get more of that, which is awesome, but it just never felt like there was a strong protagonist and antagonist throughout the movie, right? Like I just didn't feel that. Like it was, it was maybe like Riley against the the Cenobites in general, but it just didn't feel like there was just one main villain to me, and that was that was to me something that was amiss.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:10

Honestly, I I feel like we saw the gasp more than we even saw the priest.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:14

Which I'm okay with. I could see that. You know, in moderation, you know what I mean? Like, obviously, I want to see more of the priest, but I like the feeling that I want to see more of the priest. She wasn't overdone, she wasn't overexposed. It's not that it would have been the same effect, but like uh the original Jeepers Creepers, everything was great in that movie until you see what the thing looks like, and you're like, fuck, this doesn't feel as good anymore. But with with this film and with the way that the priest is handled, I feel like we're able to see just enough to her to really make that shit sing, and then don't overdo it, which I really enjoyed.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:48

Gotta say though, I'd watch this again.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:50

Yeah, definitely. You know, well, I think that the movie definitely has re-watch value, and I'll definitely watch it at some point in the future. I don't know if I'm re-watching it anytime soon. I don't know if it's something that it's gonna make me want to watch it again unless like someone wants to see it, right? Or maybe I just feel like I'm just gonna I'm just needing I got the itch for the Hellraiser franchise, and I'm just gonna try to see as many of those as I can in a short period of time. It'll definitely come back around. It has rewatch value 100%, but I don't know, I don't know if I'm gonna watch it anytime soon.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:24

Yeah, I think I can see why you would, but this isn't one that like compels me to watch it again, so I probably won't for at least a while.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:31

Yeah, I can imagine watching this again when I'm ready to revisit the whole franchise, and it's something where I want to like set the stage, dig into the lore a little bit, and then see what else I can appreciate. Like, for example, Sean, you mentioned the score of this film, as great as it was, right? There are bits in this movie that are taken from the original Hellraiser, and I imagine other Hellraiser films as well. So I'm sure there's so much in this movie that is baked in that I would appreciate more if I watched the other films. So I feel like I have to mix and match a little bit before I really devote time just to watching this one. I would for sure though watch it with someone who is in the mood for a horror movie, is in the mood to try some gore, but doesn't just want to see a person in a mask stalk someone. This I think would be a solid one for me to pull out and watch along with someone. But for now, until we get to that point of re-watching, there you have it, folks. The 2022 reboot, the reimagining of Clive Parker's Hellraiser, has earned a universal slash. Yet again, that's two for two for the original. Now we certainly had a robust discussion here, but it doesn't end here by any means. You want to know what you think. You can join in on the conversation by hanging out with us for free over in our Discord. Click the link in our show notes to sign up.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:47

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SPEAKER_03 1:03:58

Thanks again to Manscaped for making this episode possible. We'll see you next time, folks, and remember there is so much more the body can be made to feel.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:07

Stay safe out there.