244: Barbarian (2022)

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Oh, I'm sorry, saying that the movie wasn't logical and logical decisions weren't made? You tell me there's no hotels in Detroit.

SPEAKER_01 0:16

Greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hacker Slash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. This is 476 Barbary, right? If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated telling you whether a movie is a hack, a total joke, a waste of time, or a slash.

SPEAKER_02 0:33

Totally killer. Unintended.

SPEAKER_01 0:35

We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, we're rating these movies with a perspective we've gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast. This week I'm joined by the super fly space guy Mac.

SPEAKER_02 0:49

Why don't you just crash here?

SPEAKER_01 0:50

The cowardly groeper Ryan. Keith, and the classic horror connoisseur Sean.

SPEAKER_03 0:55

I don't know if you got a great look at this neighborhood, but I don't think you should be out there by yourself.

SPEAKER_01 0:59

This episode is brought to you by Manscaped, who is the best in below the waist grooming. This week we're checking out a film that sent shockwaves during its theatrical run and released for home streaming on October 25th. After reading The Gift of Fear, Zack Kreger sought to write a 30-minute story of a conversation in which a woman ignores an increasing amount of red flags. After feeling as though he'd built a solid foundation for a larger story, Kreger turned his sights to a feature-length project and enlisted the aid of his personal friend Jordan Peel to help shape the overall story. The end product is a film that begins with a woman who arrives at an Airbnb only to discover it's double booked and takes viewers on a journey so unexpected, it inspired those viewers to help the film maintain a 92% Rotten Tomatoes score since its release on September 9th, 2022. This week, we're talking about Barbarian. What were you all expecting going into this?

SPEAKER_02 1:53

You know, I I watched the trailer and then I rewatched it, and then I think I rewatched it again today before I was watching the movie. And I I don't know, I just expected like some sort of really intense captive situation.

SPEAKER_03 2:05

Yeah, I there was a lot of hype surrounding this movie. I I didn't get to see it in theaters. I waited for it to stream, but I remember at work everyone hyping this movie. There was so much hype that inevitably, like, you're gonna go into this with some high expectations. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:22

I'll be honest, one of the things that I saw before I watched this was Paris' comment about it in our Discord. And then, like, right when the movie started, I realized that I had seen the trailer for this before. For some reason, it hadn't occurred to me that like A was B. And so I went in just trying to forget what Paris said, because spoiler alert here, Paris does not like this movie. So I was trying to forget that, not be tainted by that, and also just kind of like let it be what it was. But I I'll be honest, I didn't have very high expectations.

SPEAKER_01 2:56

That's fair to not have those high expectations. I heard about so much greatness from this movie, and I think it's one of those where I went into it with a very open mind, aside from expecting that greatness, and that was because I've heard so much about it from people that I love, respect, and value. So I think I was able to expect really nothing but a great time, and a great time I got. Uh, this was so much of the movie that I really, really enjoyed. But the problem is I really, really enjoyed it until I very suddenly did not enjoy it. And I was really caught up in the moment of everything in in a very positive way. But then there were moments where I was really disappointed, and there was again that moment that I laughed so hard I cried, and there's the the fine line there of, were you laughing with it or were you laughing at it? I think this movie definitely has some campy moments that can really make you feel like, okay, this is the tone, this is a choice, this is a direction. But there are other moments where I think they they aimed for things that they couldn't really live up to.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

At the beginning, you mentioned like the goal being ignoring red flags for like writing this movie. And while I was watching this, I I can't even really communicate how many times I wanted to scream why at the television. Like, I'm not a person that sits at home and screams at a TV, but the way I wanted to be that girl for this movie, there's so much why. Everything here is just why for me.

SPEAKER_02 4:29

I do think it's pretty fair though to say that the movie felt segmented. Not that it's three separate movies, but it definitely feels it feels like it has chunks. And when I was thinking about like how I felt about it, that's literally split in three. That's exactly how I felt about it. We're watching it and I'm feeling that dread, that that stress of like, oh man, something bad is gonna happen. And then we get into this place where it's like, okay, things are getting spicy. And then we finish strong with the goodbye rails, this train's headed to space. And I don't know if it was like the strongest decision to really just like jump the shark for the third act, but boy, did they.

SPEAKER_03 5:05

I mean, I've gotta actually say that this did feel like three separate movies for me. That this definitely had abrupt changes throughout the film that really took me for a ride that I wasn't really expecting for. Yeah, I mean, I'll I'll probably unpack it a little bit more later, but definitely the abrupt shifts in direction and and uh jumping around really threw me off. And I I don't know if I was able to get back on that train.

SPEAKER_01 5:33

The abrupt shifts are a really distinct choice to make. And I think in so many ways, it actually works well. So, you know, we talked about how the trailer for this movie leads you in a direction, but it doesn't give away anything else, and that is so difficult to do. So I absolutely I have to commend it for that, right? There's a point where something changes in this movie, I'm like, whoa, what the fuck is gonna happen next? Because I've walked into this thinking that the entire, you know, first however long in the movie is the entire thing. And I think it it kind of in that way gives you that psycho moment, right? That the the all bets are off moment. And it it makes it exciting in a lot of ways. But I think where I fall in disappointment is not that they put in three different movies in one, but that it almost felt like they were trying to say something that they didn't know how to say. And it really kind of sets up to make some points about some characters and the fates of some characters and and just the type of people that we get. And it feels like it does enough to try to complicate things and try to be interesting, but then it doesn't stick the landing on a lot of it. And I found that to be incredibly disappointing, especially given the subject matter that it tries to take on.

SPEAKER_02 6:50

Yeah, I think the thing that that most surprised me was definitely what they did with the antagonist. I think I went in with, like you said, certain expectations. And and it for me went above those expectations. And I think the movie has some themes, like you mentioned, that could be delivered upon better, but it also helps us look at the question of who's the real antagonist for this movie, and in real life, I guess you could say. And so that that part was interesting, at least for me. Well, that's deep.

SPEAKER_03 7:19

The feeling that I had while watching this, at least while watching the first half, was like right when this movie seemed like it was going to be predictable, it wasn't. So like I remember watching this, and my wife kept saying stuff like, Oh, here comes this jump scare, or this is about to happen, and then it didn't. Like, none of that stuff happened, right? It takes you in a direction with playing around with you, like thinking you're gonna go down a conventional, predictable like route, and then it doesn't, um, which built a lot of tension throughout the first half of the movie, um, until it changed directions. And so, like, I remember that being like my initial thought while watching this film.

SPEAKER_00 7:56

I think my biggest surprise is unfortunately this is one of the movies that I have seen the trailer for. And once you're watching this movie, well, first I spent like the first bit kind of pissed off that I had seen the trailer, and I kind of couldn't get it out of my head and like what I thought it was gonna be. And then part of the way through I realized like, oh, uh yeah, the trailer seems like it gives you everything, and it gives you almost nothing. And I was very happy to discover that because I don't want a movie spoiled for me, and truly this trailer is one where you're like, great, I just saw like that whole movie. Like, I know everything that's gonna happen, and you do not, let me tell you, you don't know what's coming, okay?

SPEAKER_01 8:40

So, not knowing what's coming, I think really lends itself well to keeping things suspenseful, keeping things interesting, and it really keeps you invested in who's gonna make it out of this and who isn't gonna make it out. Will anyone make it out? Um, you know, is this gonna be one of those movies where evil wins? And there are so many different directions that it can go. And while it does a lot to create atmosphere, create tension, create suspense, I did not feel scared at any point in this movie. And there are some moments for sure where I think there are effective modern jump scares in here. So I think if you're particularly prone to it, if you're sensitive to it, if um maybe you are someone who dabbles very lightly in horror, maybe you're the the ride or die for one of your close friends who loves horror movies and you're kind of like the tribute who goes along to the theater. There might be some things in this movie that spook you, but I think overall what's frightening about this movie is how real some of the characters are. And what's more frightening is that they didn't really say anything great with those characters.

SPEAKER_02 9:48

Honestly, it it didn't scare me at all, of course, because that's me. But uh it sounds like Chris, Chris and I are fairly aligned on this. I think the thing I would be more scared about would be, you know, hidden cameras in Airbnbs and hotels than this movie.

SPEAKER_00 10:02

I think considering I am in a place of what feels like complete numbness to horror, as far as like, you know, being scared, I do think it gave like a creepy enough vibe that like watching it all by myself at night made me feel like a little bit uncomfortable and kind of like looking over my shoulder. So, like, yeah, it's not super scary, but I I wouldn't say this is the least scary thing we've watched recently, and like some things that you see on screen do be extremely traumatizing. So it's got something.

SPEAKER_03 10:33

Yeah, I mean, so this this movie can be unsettling at times, right? It it can leave you feeling uneasy in many ways. There's definitely some good, like classic jump scares, you know, the jump scares that are backed by like screeching strings from the score to get you to react throughout the film, but overall, the movie is more disturbing than frightening, right? Like it wasn't scary, it was just unsettling and disturbing.

SPEAKER_01 10:58

For sure. And I think in some ways it I don't wouldn't say that it completely takes cheap shots to get there. Like this isn't the kind of movie that I think uh I've I've had my complaints about with some others where it feels like you're just adding in, you know, this particular type of scene to up the intensity or really get the shock value. I don't think this is necessarily that, but I will say that this is distinctly its own movie. Like, even if you want to think that there is something kind of similar, like we've seen some Airbnb-ish or hotel-ish horror movies that are out there. This goes in a direction that is fucking bold, to say the least.

SPEAKER_02 11:39

Yeah, I think you know, there's some elements here of other movies that we've seen and even reviewed. There's one that wouldn't make sense to compare it to unless, of course, you've seen it, and I don't want to spoil anything, but I just think this story isn't something that we've seen told quite yet, at least not in this way. So it it still scores some originality points.

SPEAKER_03 11:59

Aaron Powell, but that that's it right there, right? On one end of the spectrum, I feel as though there is some originality to the film, but at the other end of the spectrum, I feel as though we've seen this before. Like the movie takes may it may take like an unconventional way of telling the story, but I definitely feel like we have seen bits and pieces of this story in many, many other films.

SPEAKER_00 12:21

Yeah, I have to completely agree with that. It feels original and unoriginal at the exact same time.

SPEAKER_03 12:26

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 12:27

Well, do you think the way this movie approaches its ending is a contributor to that?

SPEAKER_02 12:30

Oh boy, the ending. I can't wait to dig into this more because at first it seems kind of satisfying in a way, but it just gets so cheesy for a minute, and then you're just left with like an abrupt, like cut to black almost. So just it's almost too fast, but also too long because the stuff that we do get, it's a bit cheddar.

SPEAKER_00 12:51

That cheesiness we get at the end is like personally appalling for me. Like I again was like yelling at my TV, like, are is this really what you're giving me at the end of this movie? This set of dialogue, this is what you're giving me. So yeah, it's a it's a no for me on the ending on this one.

SPEAKER_03 13:09

Gosh, I gotta say, like the ending was overall pretty lame for me, I gotta say. Like the backstory, it it just felt like they crammed into the second half of the film. It felt very rushed. Uh, it it was confusing. Uh, there were a lot of plot holes for me. It was just downright fucking strange. Like, not uh not unsettling, but strange towards the end. And the tough part is the movie started off really strong and then it went on to derail in the second half and completely lost me by the end. Um, the the only thing I thought was cool at the end was was how the film kind of played on your emotions with the antagonist, right? Which we'll probably talk about a little bit more in the second half. But that was the probably the only thing that I enjoyed from the ending.

SPEAKER_01 13:51

So look, this is another one of those where when it's all said and done, do I enjoy the basic math of what happens?

unknown 14:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:00

The ending conclusion here, I get it, I appreciate it, I respect it, but the journey that we take to get there, what you have to suffer through to get there. I don't know that I'm totally on board with it. I had this same issue with Halloween ends. Halloween ends, I'm okay with the ending that we get on paper. And I've had to like revisit that conversation so many times when you know, seeing people in my life who just are are asking me to weigh in on it. It's that phrase, it's not what you said, it's how you said it. And this movie is not how you ended, it's how you ended. It's complicated. This movie is complicated because again, I I really enjoyed so much of it until I enjoyed so little of it. And I think I have some feelings to sort out. Maybe it's pretty clear for the rest of us. So let's go ahead and start making our way to our ratings. Now, before we actually score this movie, Ryan, how would you rate the gore score?

SPEAKER_00 14:54

We're going medium here. It it could go towards high, but um I'm feeling pretty solid about a medium gore score tonight.

SPEAKER_01 15:02

And what about the animal report? Animal report is all good. Well, let's go ahead and get into our rating then. Barbarian from 2022. Is it a hacker or slash?

SPEAKER_02 15:11

Well, hacker slash, this movie was at least a ride, that's for sure. I expected just a fairly standard like lure and capture, fight to survive kind of horror movie. I didn't expect the actual danger that was lurking, and I also didn't expect a movie with a message. I'm happy we got what we got. There's solid tension, really solid tension built in the first third of this film, and kind of an insane, albeit weaker, third third. Each character feels like a silhouette carved from modern life, and as always, the real danger is the hubris of men, all the way back to ancient Greece, right? So it's still a slash, and I think it's a solid entry into the 2022 horror release list.

SPEAKER_03 15:53

Alright, so this movie started off strong, right? I said that it derailed in the second half. The film was riddled with ideas and and and things that we have already seen before. Uh Zach Krager, uh, he brings a level of humor, uh, campiness, if you will, I don't know, maybe from his, you know, whitest kids you know days to this film that like kind of it just took away from the I don't know, scariness or the horror of it all, right? Um the movie is unpredictable in some moments and yet like even more predictable in others. Um Barbarian to me is unconventional in a lot of ways, but maybe that's all it's got going for it. This movie is a hack for me. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna be able to slash this film. I am for sure hacking this film.

SPEAKER_00 16:38

You know, Sean, you know, I also thought that we were just gonna get a pretty standard, you know, man chasing woman for two hours kind of movie. As we get into this, you definitely don't get that. It is unique. It takes it takes a unique approach to kind of how the story is told here. But if y'all know me at all, you know that I don't want to be watching a movie trying to figure out why people are making the decisions they're making. There's only one good decision that's made in this movie, and it's when an actress says nope, when she says, no, I'm not going in there. That is the only intelligent decision that was made. This movie for me is a story about why you should not trust strangers. This is a story about what not to do. The whole time I was just sitting back yelling in my head about why they were doing this or not doing that. And honestly, I found it to be so frustrating. I think this is one of those movies where if you understand camp, you might like it. But I'd like to argue that camp doesn't make sense. Okay. It's made up. You guys may say that things that are bad are campy and they're not. This movie's not good. It's not fun. I okay, I'm gonna give my disclaimer here. I think if I had seen this in a theater with people, I think I would have had a great time. I think it would have felt like watching X in the theater almost. I'm completely okay with that, but I didn't see it in a theater. I saw it at home. It's a scary movie. I was supposed to be scared, and I was just pissed off. All I did was ask why the whole time. This is a freaking hack.

SPEAKER_03 18:09

So much passion.

SPEAKER_01 18:10

So this movie is complicated. I mentioned earlier that I loved it so much until I suddenly hated it. And that is a really heavy load to bear when you want to love a movie. There is a lot of potential here. Uh I love, love, love our leading lady. I love Bill Skarsgard as Keith. I love the approach that we get to the duality of antagonists, and I love the layers that are attempted at saying something about this movie. The problem is things got a little muddled in in terms of like writing it and thinking back to the what is the original vision of this film? What is the conviction, right? What is the overall tone? Think about The Gift of Fear, a book that I love, where it just talks about intuition and trusting your gut and trusting your instincts. This movie is at its best when that's what this movie is about. So as I consider like what my feelings are about this overall, in this moment, I think I'm going 50.1% slash. With that, Barbarian 2022, one of the highest-rated films of the year, has proven to be divisive for us here tonight, earning two slashes and two hacks. Now, this movie is streaming right now in the US on HBO Max, so go check it out. Then join us in the second half so we can really dive into this together. We'll see you in a bit. Now, sure you could be faced with the opening scene of Barbarian, you may in fact be doomed. But what if this is the start of your meat cute romantic comedy? Are you ready for that? And perhaps equally important, is your lawn ready for that? Lucky for you, support for Hackerslash is brought to you by Manscaped, who is the best in below the waist grooming. Their products are precision-engineered tools for all your grooming needs, and don't let the name fool you either. You already know that we believe horror is for everyone, and I'm here to tell you from personal experience, so is Manscaped. They sent us the new Performance Package 4.0, their ultimate hygiene bundle, and I'm genuinely blown away by the craftsmanship and quality of their products. The package includes a wide variety of goods, including their weed whacker, ear and nose hair trimmer, crop preserver ball deodorant, crop revivor toner, and a travel bag, well, a shed, if you will, to keep it all nice and tidy. My favorite things though are their absurdly comfortable moisture wicking boxers and the Lawnmower 4.0, a waterproof trimmer that also has a cutting-edge ceramic blade to help reduce the risk of grooming accidents and ingrown hairs. You gotta keep it smooth. Now listen, I've been down the road of trying trimmers, razors, everything in between. The Lawnmower 4.0 is a real deal, and has gotten me feeling much more confident these days. And look, reality is holiday season is right around the corner, folks. Perhaps it's time for you and yours to have the gift of confidence as well. Join us and over 4 million individuals worldwide who trust Manscaped with this exclusive offer for you. 20% off and free worldwide shipping with the code slash 20 and manscaped.com. Unlock your confidence and always use the right tools for the job with Manscaped. Welcome back, folks. You are now interested. The spoiler zone for Barbarian, which has earned two slashes and two hacks. Now we have lots to unpack here, but before we get into the specifics of our ratings, Ryan, take us through the kills.

SPEAKER_00 22:10

The gore here is interesting. I feel like we get a couple of moments of quite high gore, but overall, it doesn't happen enough for it to go beyond like a medium gore score for me. The big one is Keith's head getting slammed into the wall. That's probably one of the more gory moments of the movie. There's a couple other little things that go on, but I don't want to go over all of them. We only have a few. What are your favorite kills?

SPEAKER_02 22:33

Oh, AJ. Easily my favorite kill. Because even though we don't get to see the front of the head, seeing that the eyes are destroyed and then seeing the head ripped in half was just absolutely perfect for that character.

SPEAKER_00 22:46

He deserved it so much.

SPEAKER_03 22:47

100%. A AJ was a good one with like the creepy, like witchy fingers going into the eyes. But I think it's obvious Keith getting his head like smashed into the wall over and over again and just beaten to a pulp was just uh brutal, and uh that's gotta be my favorite kill.

SPEAKER_01 23:06

AJ had an intense death nowhere near as soon as it should have happened. The way this man just mediocred his way through this whole movie was baffling to me. Keith, hell of a death. Really great stuff there. I wanna go with what I think is the most disappointing death, which is Frank getting to go out on his own terms despite being the fucking monster that he is. It's tough, right? Um, we're gonna, I'm sure, get to how dark the themes in this movie can get and the areas that they explore. But at that point, second death of the movie, terrible.

SPEAKER_00 23:41

Yeah, I think, you know, it was satisfying to see AJ killed the way that he was, but I think Frank is the one that deserved to literally be ripped to pieces. So it is disappointing that we didn't get something a little bit better. And honestly, even that we didn't get like AJ killing him, like he just stood there like a dingus. That's that was the worst part.

SPEAKER_01 24:01

Yeah, it's a way that you can be such a vicious, vile monster, realize, oh, I'm about to get caught, and then she'd be like, no consequence for me. I'm done. Thanks. I'm expiring. It's just it's it's tough, right? There's a lot of heaviness that is even broached with that topic. But Frank did not go out in a way that was meaningful to add something compelling to the movie. It felt like a scapegoat.

SPEAKER_02 24:28

I think it was a way to avoid him being in the movie any longer. I think it was like we're gonna introduce him, we're gonna give the backstory, but we don't want to have to factor him in in any meaningful way after this.

SPEAKER_01 24:39

Okay, but for Tess getting accidentally shot, AJ could have accidentally shot Frank. And it would have been much better.

SPEAKER_00 24:45

There's a lot of things that could have been much better. I think like in general, it's weird how heavy like the Frank situation is, and for him to just like show up and then just kill himself really quickly. Like, it's kind of just a weird setup and punchline for me, but I do have to admit that the like neighborhood during Frank's whatever it is, 50s, 60s, whatever that time period is that he's in there where it's creepy and green and cookie cutter and you know, quote unquote perfect. That is my favorite visual element because you know, they they even brought us from like a widescreen, cropped it to old school, uh different aspect ratio. Like I I just enjoyed seeing that before I saw what was going on, like when we first see the house and it's got that perfect neighborhood, perfect yard, everything like that. I just thought it was so interesting and I was so intrigued. And that's part of what was such an issue for me is that like it was so cool to see that part, and then what it turned into and what it gave us was just like it sucked. Like, like I I could have done without that. He didn't have to be that. I didn't need that.

SPEAKER_02 25:53

It's interesting that that's your favorite visual because mine was also related to how the house and the neighborhood looked, but it was in the present day because we get that comparison of this beautifully redone upstairs for the purposes of Airbnb, basically. I mean, it's just like almost a corporate-owned rental. But we have that, and then we have the the downstairs, the basement world, and then we have the neighborhood outside, completely contrasting with that. And I don't know, I just like I like seeing the difference there versus uh you know, Frank's world, where everything else was beautiful outside, but inside was just rotten.

SPEAKER_03 26:29

Overall, I gotta say, my favorite visual element of this film uh was the lighting throughout the film. I think I loved the lighting throughout the film. I thought the play on the lighting with the shadows and the scenes with the doorways and things like that, that and the camera angles uh utilizing that lighting I thought was really beautiful. So if I if I had to pick a favorite visual element, the lighting was amazing.

SPEAKER_01 26:52

Oh, I 100% agree. I'm also gonna go though with the lighting as you get deeper into the house, we leave the well-lit, beautiful, like really cozy setting of this Airbnb, and you descend down one level into the basement, and it's spooky, it's warm, it feels like danger, and then you just get this cold emptiness in the rest of the tunnels. And you have these this weird lighting coming in from the TV, and you see how some of the rooms in here are just fucking spooky. But the way that lighting or even the lack of lighting adds so much dimension is really, really cool and compelling for this movie, which I think you know really helps it shine. I think that was felt no better than in the moment of my favorite scene, which was our girl Tess going back down, trying to find Keith, and just seeing him emerge from the shadows and then get pulled right back down when the uh when the mother attacks him. To see not only Tess kind of navigate this space of trying to do things the right way, trying to investigate and poke a little bit deeper, being stuck down there, finally getting out, and then going back in. That movie was, I think, one of the highest points for me because it felt like so much tension and suspense really building up in a positive way. And then when we see the mother for the first time, it's like, okay, what the fuck is going on here? And at that point, I wasn't lost, right? This wasn't a what that what's going on here, this is outrageous, but rather a okay, I am invested now. I want to know what happens with Tess.

SPEAKER_02 28:28

My favorite scene also is related to Tess, but it's way early on. It's like the first scene of the movie. I think even though it's basically the trailer, it has the most tension of the movie because we know Bill Skarsgard, because we're expecting him to be bad, and because he's throwing off so many red signs, and because Tess's like falling into this trap, I think we're just spending it there yelling at the screen like Ryan was doing of don't do this, what are you doing? Don't go in there, etc. etc. I think it was probably the most like effective scene of the movie where we were really feeling like you have a way out of this and you're and you're so close, but yet so far.

SPEAKER_03 29:05

That was what I loved about the first part of the movie is like you're expect like just like you said, you're expecting to see you you see Bill Skarsgard and you're expecting him to be the antagonist in some way, and it's get got you guessing and it's leading you in all these directions. But for me, my favorite scene was definitely the tunnel scene when AJ is in there and he's tumbling around with the flashlight and it falls and it's blinking and it's going on and off, and then you see the woman just like come out of nowhere right into his face, right? And then he just drops into the into the cage or trap or whatever it was. But that was my favorite scene in the film.

SPEAKER_00 29:42

I think my favorite scene. It's hard for me to pick one if I'm being honest, because I found so many of these scenes to be frustrating. But one of them is the man from the water tower, Andre, saving her, like pulling Tess out of the house, you know, because she previously thought he was like kind of coming to attack her, you know? And so he reaches out, saves her, pulls her away from that literal monster coming out from the d basement. And I I enjoy that so much because it was such a turn, and I was so sad to see him it get literally killed with his own arm. Like, I don't know, it was just a disappointing story for him, unfortunately, because I think he didn't deserve that, especially because it was just these stupid people in Airbnb. Like he's been there for so long, but um yeah, I I think him showing that he was a good person and like you know, kind of flipping the first scene of him, it was one of my favorites.

SPEAKER_02 30:32

Okay, so the whole good person thing, I think we I think we need to talk about that. Because sure, uh he's not like an evil person, right? But does he exhibit that hubris that I mentioned in my review? Because he does, right? So he he of course we're safe here. He mentions it to them. Like it's been 15 years, she would never burst into here, and of course, seconds later the mother bursts through the wall and then kills him with his own arm or whatever. But like yeah, he's not necessarily a bad dude, but he makes those decisions like the other characters make because they're men and they don't have to think. Because just like in that scene that we get with Tess talking to Keith about it, right? Like, there's two different experiences, and the men are just like, I don't see why I would need to worry at all.

SPEAKER_00 31:20

But I don't think that he's saying, I don't see I why I would have to worry. He's just figured out how to live here. The only reason she does bust in is because these ding bats literally did what he said not to do, which is don't come back over here. If you go to the cops or whatever, don't come back, don't come this way. Don't come back here at night. She's gonna come looking for you. Like, I I'm not, you know, I'm not trying to make a character judgment on the man. I'm just I like that it got flipped that he was initially shown as like, hey girl, like it might have been some creepy guy trying to catcall her or something or whatever. And it's not. It's someone that helped pull her out to safety because he knows what's going on there. And the only reason he gets killed and his little humble abode is ruined is because these people show up and again, exactly like he asked him not to.

SPEAKER_03 32:05

I see what you're saying, Mac, but I I I don't think like Andre, he just didn't deserve to die to me. Like, I feel like he was living in this place for however long. He truly was trying to help Tess out, right? He gave he gave her advice like go leave, don't come back. She came back. Like, this is here's the thing, right? These characters made horrible decisions throughout this film. They made arguably dumb decisions constantly throughout the film that put themselves in perfect positions to die. And it just it lead it leads you almost wanting to root for the antagonist throughout the film, which is why I mean, the feeling that I got from this was like exactly the same reason why fans started rooting for Jason Voorhees in Friday the 13th, right? Because these kids like are just so dumb making such terrible decisions that you just want the antagonist to rip them apart. You want to see them die.

SPEAKER_02 33:01

Right, because but they're making terrible decisions. Ryan's biggest complaint about this movie is like, why am I screaming? Why are you doing that? And that's the point. I mean, Chris told us. Literally, the director was like, I want to write a story about intuition and red flags. And I mean, the the whole point, I think, is that like the fact that women have to be on alert at all times. In at least in this, in the current experience, hopefully in the future we can get away from that. But like, it's just like the nature of reality is that you can't ignore red flags. You have to use your intuition, you can't do things that Keith's character could have. Keith, Keith as as a man could have just walked into that Airbnb and sure, right? I'll be safe. It's not a big deal, I'll stay in the other room, no problem. And like that was her whole her whole diatribe to him was like, you can do that and I can't. And the whole movie was just like a two-hour version of that.

SPEAKER_00 33:49

I need to make an argument here because sure they had a conversation about oh, men can do things that women can't do, and we look at things differently. That's nice and all, but what is the point of this movie where she only makes bad decisions? Like it it there it doesn't connect for me. It's like just because you point out that women can't do everything men do, she then goes and does a bunch of stuff that she shouldn't have done, not because she's a woman, just because it was dumb. Like, you don't know this guy, why are you going to save him? And that guy's a douchebag. You don't know him either, and you're going to save him. Like, why are you putting yourself in these scenarios? It doesn't connect for me with a gender thing if you don't know things about what they were trying to do when they wrote the movie.

SPEAKER_01 34:28

Okay, so I think the reality here is like this movie paints the picture of imperfect humanity. And there are layers of evil, and there are layers of decision making. There are layers of perspective and how we move through spaces. There are layers even within the socioeconomic breakdown of this, right? So we have Andre who is conditioned to surviving in this environment. We have the mother who is, again, conditioned to surviving in this environment. And then we see those who have the resources, A, A, J, to just own this property and it be chilling unattended and just generating wealth. And it's the one spot of wealth in this whole neighborhood. And then we have Tess who is, you know, able to have such opportunity, right? To be able to rent a place, to do a job interview, to do what she loves and to do what she's passionate about. And there, there's just a lot baked in here, right? And that's part of why I think I leaned more to the slash side of this. However, I don't agree that Tess made dumb decisions. Tess followed her intuition and her red flags were raised. She was very cautious about Keith in the beginning. And there are some things that are imperfect, right? We all do things that I think, you know, we make mistakes. Maybe I would not have gone down into that basement. And I think even the point of like not knowing someone, it seems as though she had that moral character of, okay, but I need to go. I need to help. I need to be able to do something. And while I think, you know, we can we can like to think that somebody should have done something differently. The reality is we wouldn't have had that movie. Um, but I think where this movie really misses for me is in the way that it treats AJ as a character. Because it's one thing to say, hey, here's this asshole. We all know he's an asshole. He's not gonna change by the end. You're gonna want to root for his death, and we're gonna get that. But it doesn't nothing meaningful is done in the span of time that he's on screen. You know what I mean? Instead, we are here to listen to him, to see his reaction to Frank, to try to understand what he sees evil as. Like, oh Frank, you're disgusting. I'm nothing like you. And I I think that's that's where this really struggles for me. I don't need a reminder that people like this exist. Live you live in a world with people like this. I've certainly walked into the situation where I, as a woman, can have a concern and then a dude can walk into the situation and think, oh no, that guy's cool. Everything's fine. It's frustrating. I just don't need that in a in a movie. And I think I could take it in a movie if it's handled really well, or if it's done with some kind of intention. But here it felt like, yeah, we're gonna do something about this, and then it just kind of fumbles its way through, and then AJ finally dies eventually. But I don't know, it's just it felt very unceremonious.

SPEAKER_00 37:32

I think my frustration about that character really came from again, I can understand where people are gonna say this is camp, but from the ends, like close to the ending scene where he's like, I guess realizing that he's hurt someone and like it's meant to, you know, kind of draw this parallel to realizing that he raped someone, but like that is not cool. Like it wasn't funny, it wasn't a character arc, it it wasn't growth, it was just like, I don't know. It was like it was like acting. Like it was just like he it seemed like he was just told to say that. I don't know. I don't know how to explain this because obviously we're talking about a movie, but it just did not connect to me at all. And it's not, it's not funny, it's not campy enough to like, oh my god, that's so exaggerated. It just seemed like he was just as douchey as he was, and this is what he really thought. Like, oh man, I hurt somebody. I should do something about it. Like, it was just dumb for me.

SPEAKER_01 38:32

Yeah, so I think this is this is part of the thing, right, Ryan? When you go to highlight something like that, who is your audience? What are you trying to say? Where are you trying to go with this, right? Because you you either need to educate somebody who is unaware that this is happening, you're trying to point it out to the people who are like this, uh, or you're trying to shed light on something, right? Or maybe it's just like, oh, we all know this exists, we're gonna make a big joke about it. This isn't the topic, nor do I think the director was trying to make a joker out of any of this, right? I think he uses humor to try to balance out some really tonally heavily heavy material. The problem, though, is that it's unclear what direction he wanted to take with his message to the audience because he did not land something as effective enough for AJ's character in particular. Okay, if I if if a if a guy like AJ watches this movie, what is that guy gonna think? What is he gonna take away from this, right? And again, maybe it's just not that kind of movie, but it sure seemed like it was trying to be for a while, which is a problem for me.

SPEAKER_02 39:35

Yeah, it seems like the only point really was just emphasis. It was just an exclamation point. But there was no real like follow-through or follow-up about like, so what next? But I think if you look at all the characters, it's all kind of like that. You know, looking looking at Keith, we want to like Keith because it's Bill Skarsgard. We also want to hate him because we know that he can portray evil very well. But at this at the same time, he's revealed to be not a bad guy, right? He's just part of this like artist collective, and they're like, you know, gentrifying entire neighborhoods at a time. And so, yeah, he seems like a good guy, but he's also part of the problem here. And it's all it's all of them, all of every single character on screen. The police obviously, it's not that they didn't do anything, right? It's that they like they didn't do anything. And that's the problem. It's not like, okay, they they didn't factor this, they didn't factor into this whatsoever. It's like they actively didn't help someone who desperately needed their help.

SPEAKER_00 40:30

But to what point?

SPEAKER_02 40:32

But that's that's I think that's where it falls short, is again, it's just an emphasis. It's just an exclamation point. It's just like, hey, hey, look at this thing we did. But there's no like there's no next step.

SPEAKER_03 40:42

Yeah, to me, it just so I get all the points the movie was making, but it just felt like they were just shoving these points forward, but not going anywhere with with a lot of them.

SPEAKER_01 40:54

Sean, in in considering what you're saying, right, it's almost like we're gonna talk about a problem, but not talk about a solution. You know what I mean? It's not giving any resolution towards the end of it. Let me just say, like, I love that Tess walks away from all of this. I really love it. As much as she gets beaten down, um, and the way that she kind of like does mercy kill on the mother, right? To like kind of like release her from this painful existence. It is something where it doesn't do something conclusive enough in the ending for me to feel like I was given some kind of resolution.

SPEAKER_03 41:30

Yeah. I I think that point, right, with Tess at the end, that was unique for me. I felt like that was a moment where we felt empathy for the antagonist, which was interesting to feel at the end of a horror movie. I I just didn't feel like the movie ended and resonated with me to a point where I felt like it concluded properly. Like it just um, I don't know, something something was off for me there. I did like that point, but I just the the ending just didn't do it for me.

SPEAKER_01 41:57

I can understand like feeling like there's like a disconnect on something there in the ending. And I mean, this movie is imperfect to me. Again, it was like a very much like a 50.1, 49.9% like split on which way I was gonna go with this. And I think I have to revisit the moments that felt the most chilling, the moments that felt more most connected to the original vision, right? Like I want to take um the gift of fear and really break that down and and really uh try to convey this like sense of intuition. You think about seeing Frank as a character, I was so confused the moment that we see him on screen, and you know, obviously you understand like this is his house, we're gonna see like some kind of origin story, but to see the way he moved like a predator, to see how he is the barbarian in this movie, it was absolutely chilling, and it reminded me so much of that book and the same like sick feeling I got in my stomach reading that. And we think about how you're constantly on high alert and you have to maintain this level of awareness, and it's because of predators like Frank. Um, and and it's also because of predators like AJ. It's because of just people who will go through these motions, you know. Let's say even Keith trying to be very, very accommodating, almost not realizing how uncomfortable he's making the situation. So this movie, I think, in in what you were saying, Mac, shines a light on the fact that there was nobody in this movie who was beyond reproach. That there is nobody in this movie who was who was who wasn't flawed in some way.

SPEAKER_02 43:36

I I think though there's a couple worst parts to this movie that I want to bring up. And one of them is gonna seem kind of strange. I don't understand. I never really got the whole thing about the mother having superhuman strength and speed and agility when this is someone who's like born of incest, they should be crippled, if anything, um, by how many generations apparently Frank was doing this. So that didn't really. Compute for me. The second thing I'd bring up is honestly this is just small, small nitpicks at this point, but like Keith Keith's reaction to like Tess's informing him of how men and women have a different experience. Like the fact that he wasn't like, of course, it's 2022, I'm not an idiot. You know, the fact that he's just like, well, I don't know, like really that that seemed tone-deaf for the character. So maybe it makes sense for that character. And then the other one just being the fact that, of course, Tess didn't leave as soon as the mix-up with Keith became apparent. Again, like Chris said, this movie never would have happened. But like I feel like any of us in that spot would have been like, I'm gonna get in my car, I'm gonna call somebody, I'm leaving.

SPEAKER_00 44:37

Oh, I'm sorry, are you saying that the movie wasn't logical and logical decisions weren't made? You tell me there's no hotels in Detroit.

SPEAKER_02 44:44

It's a nitpick. It's it's the same kind of nitpick I had with Spree when, you know, when our comedian character like got back into the car. Same kind of nitpick. Like again, there's not a movie without it happening. So obviously it had to happen.

SPEAKER_01 44:57

Of course. I'm going in a really lighthearted direction, right? Obviously, the worst part of this movie for me is like Frank, AJ, etc. Because of like, I don't, I just don't need that. It it serves no purpose to really educate me or change my mind or do anything but then to re-traumatize and re-trigger me in ways that I don't need. However, the mother diving, free falling to save Tess, that was the moment that I laughed so hard I cried. And I'm saying this in a lighthearted way. Uh, I'm saying it's the worst part. I think it's the worst, it's so bad it's good part because that was a moment of camp. That was a tonal choice and direction. That was a doozy. We see her body just emerge over and and start that fall, and I'm like, oh Jesus Christ, what's happening here?

SPEAKER_00 45:43

I feel like in theaters that would have been so funny. Like with a, you know, a packed theater full of people. I feel like I would have laughed at that too. At fun at home, it wasn't funny, but I feel like in a theater it would have been.

SPEAKER_01 45:53

I laughed so hard and I said, What the actual fuck? And then it made other people laugh, and it was it was a good time.

SPEAKER_00 45:59

Uh my best part is very simple. It's that Tess lived and AJ died. Those are the best things about this movie that when you come out, you can at least revel in that.

SPEAKER_03 46:09

For me, a best part of this film, I guess it would be the score. I felt the score was super menacing, right? It led to some really high tension throughout the film, and and it just felt like it, it's it's like I described some moments like in some of my favorite songs in metal, like from Pantera and different bands like that. There's some riffs, there's some parts of this score that felt like there's a monster crawling towards you. It just felt menacing, something coming out of the depths coming towards you and lurking and stuff. And that really captivated me, especially in the first half of the film, which really where it drew my attention. It was spot on.

SPEAKER_01 46:50

Oh man, especially the moment of you know, we get to the beginning of the movie and you hear these like haunting vocals, and then it just disappears as soon as the camera pushes into Tessa's car. So fucking good. Absolutely love that. And I think it's moments like that and little details like that that have me excited for another watch. I was really down on this movie when I first saw it in the theater, despite that rip-roaring laughter. And I this is something that I really wish I was able to get another watch in, especially now that it's streaming on HBO Max. I do plan on watching it again soon, but I'm really hoping that I can find some more things to like to really solidify the slash.

SPEAKER_02 47:31

I gave it a solid slash, but uh this is one of those one and done kind of movies for me. I think it, you know, while it was a good watch while it lasted, it's just not one I'm gonna find time to watch again. I'm just not gonna make an effort to carve out that time.

SPEAKER_00 47:45

Yeah, I think if I hadn't seen this, I wish I had seen it in a theater, but I can't imagine myself watching it again, even with like groups of people. It's just it's just not for me.

SPEAKER_03 47:54

Yeah, I definitely don't feel the need to watch this one again. I really wanted this to be as great as everyone hyped this movie up to be. I will force myself to watch this movie again only because I did not watch it all the way through from start to finish, and I did watch a movie in between. So I'm gonna give it the benefit of the benefit of a doubt, and I'm gonna watch it one more time. I highly doubt this is gonna change my decision, but I'll force myself through it.

SPEAKER_01 48:22

Well, Sean, I'm excited to see if anything changes for you on that rewatch. I'm excited if it changes for me on a rewatch as well. Obviously, there's so much that you can unpack about this movie. There's so much to explore. Even, you know, as we've been streaming this recording, the chat is fierce tonight in defense or support of you know us being split down the middle on this movie. And while we have certainly talked about a lot, there's a lot more to say, and we want to know what you think. For now, there you have it, folks. Barbarian has earned two hacks and two slashes. We'll see if those scores stay at the end of the year. But we also need your perspective as well. Let us know. You can join in on the conversation by hanging out with us for free over in our Discord. You can click the link in our show notes to sign up.

SPEAKER_02 49:06

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SPEAKER_01 49:18

Our thanks again to Manscaped for their support of Hackerslash. We'll see you next time, folks, and remember, you're gonna have to make some tough choices.

SPEAKER_03 49:26

Just remember, always be yourself unless you suck.

SPEAKER_01 49:29

Bye.