261: Evil Dead 2 (1987)

SPEAKER_01 0:04

She was so close.

SPEAKER_05 0:05

Yeah, she got penetrated by his dagger, huh?

SPEAKER_01 0:08

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_05 0:08

If only greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hacker Slash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. I'll swallow your soul. If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack, a total joke, a waste of time, or a slash.

SPEAKER_02 0:31

Totally killer, pun intended.

SPEAKER_05 0:33

We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, we're rating these movies with the perspective we've gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast. This week I'm joined by the Superfly Space Guy Mac.

SPEAKER_01 0:47

That's right, who's laughing now?

SPEAKER_05 0:48

The classic horror connoisseur Sean.

SPEAKER_01 0:51

I buried her in the cellar.

SPEAKER_05 0:52

And the paranormal paramour Vinks. For God's sake, how do you stop it? This week we're preparing for an upcoming April theatrical release by revisiting a franchise we last covered in episode 169. In that episode, we compared Sam Raimi's directorial feature debut to its 2013 reboot and discussed the original film's impact on the genre. Now, that original film followed Ash Williams and a group of young adults who ventured out into a cabin in the woods in search of a good time. What they ultimately found, though, was a book of the dead that summoned Kendarian demons. Despite the early skill Raimi demonstrated in his original film, his second film, Crime Wave from 1985, was a colossal flop, earning a mere $5,101 in the box office after being made for an estimated $3 million. That failure inspired Rami to revisit and continue Ash's story. When he initially struggled to produce the capital necessary to fund his sequel, Stephen King, who was a huge fan of the original film, came to his aid, and King was able to convince a producer to finance the project, which resulted in a film that earned more than five million dollars after 30 days in theaters. This film takes us back to Ash's horrific night at the cabin and continues the onslaught of unrelenting Deadites pursuing him. This week, we're talking about Evil Dead 2. Who's seen this one before?

SPEAKER_02 2:14

If you have heard me talk about this film, then you know that this is one that I have very fond memories of. I grew up watching this film. This film really brings me back to my teenage years, good times with some of my oldest and best friends. I really love the entire Evil Dead franchise. I enjoyed the remake, also, the show, but most of all, I just love Evil Dead 2 along with the other two of the initial three films.

SPEAKER_04 2:38

For me, in terms of this franchise or the movie, I don't necessarily like have a major connection to it aside from me just liking Sam Raimi. I had I'd seen Evil Dead, but I saw it when I was kind of a teenager, to be honest, when the Spider-Man movies came out. So that's just me being real. I never really continued on with the franchise. I'm not really sure why. So when it comes to like the rest of Evil Dead, I've actually never seen any of them. So this is my first time going into it.

SPEAKER_01 3:05

Dude, I was a huge lover of Army of Darkness when I was in high school. A friend back then introduced it to me. And Darren, thank you, buddy. I hope you're living a great life in Ontario. It was a few years later before I actually got to go back and watch the first two movies. First of all, this and then later on the first one.

SPEAKER_05 3:22

Okay, so I'm seeing a team divided tonight because obviously Mac and Sean have this live, like almost lifelong love of this franchise. Uh, but being like you, before this podcast, I hadn't seen anything past the first movie. In fact, I avoided watching Evil Dead, period, ever until episode 169. So, you know, we already established that we actually just did a rewind. Uh, I slashed the original film uh back when we first covered it, but it was like a week slash Time Will Tell, you know, how I felt about you know the Evil Dead after some distance. Uh, you can catch that rewind with myself, Sean, and Mac over on Patreon right now. But I haven't explored much of anything else. And I knew this was going to be a departure from the tone of the original. I knew this was where Bruce Campbell would really start to Bruce Campbell as Ash Williams. I went into this with a lot of hope based on what Mac and Sean had previously shared in our rewind episode. But Binks, what were you expecting going into this since you also hadn't seen this before?

SPEAKER_04 4:26

I didn't know much about this movie and like what to expect whatsoever. So I honestly went into it kind of expecting something that I definitely didn't get in terms of what it was going to be about. Like, I guess I thought that this was going to be a direct sequel from the first one. I was expecting more gore, all these other things, but in terms of plot, a direct like picks up right where it ends. I had no idea the context of what happened with the rights of this film, or you know, how it was kind of a requel, I guess, if you want to say that. Like, no clue. So I think that definitely impacted my watch just a little bit, but um wasn't too bad in terms of like, okay, now that once I finally gathered that this wasn't a direct sequel, I was able to keep keep watching and have a smooth sailing from there.

SPEAKER_01 5:13

I don't know. I was excited for this. I just remembered this one as being where Sam Raimi got to do things with a bigger budget and more experience, and Bruce Campbell got to show off six more years of experience. I expected, you know, more polish than than Evil Dead. I expected more camp and more of that sacred chin.

SPEAKER_02 5:30

Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, knowing the franchise fairly well by now, definitely expecting this one to give, you know, much of what we saw in the first one, but really go quite a bit heavier on the camp, like you said, Mac. I'm really expecting a hysterical intensity jam-packed with over-the-top campiness that makes for a pretty wild ride.

SPEAKER_05 5:49

Ooh, you know, look. You both tried to prepare me. I don't know that you possibly could have prepared me, but I I appreciate your efforts. Let me tell you that I felt a lot of things during this movie. Okay. None more intense, though, than the absolute Olympian performance of mental gymnastics my mind was doing in the opening few minutes of this movie. No bullshit. And and look, dear sweet listener, if you're a huge fan of this franchise, or if you've even honestly just seen this movie before, what I'm about to say to you is is probably gonna sound best case scenario, mildly funny or charming, or worst case scenario, borderline maddening, because how could I not know what to expect from this movie that is so beloved in horror? The first few minutes of this really do well to hit you with the previously on the evil dead and bring you up to speed on what you may have forgotten, especially since the last movie came out seven years before this, right? I expected that because of what Mac and Sean shared. What I didn't fucking know though, was that this movie was gonna straight up change its predecessor and completely reinvent the circumstances in which Ash came to be at the cabin. And again, this is not a spoiler section of the episode. I'm not gonna say any more than that, but it's fair to call it out right there since it's literally the opening of the movie. Now we're we're gonna get more into this in the second half and discuss how the rights or the lack of rights to the original film impacted this, but I'll say this. I felt betrayed, bewildered, befuddled, baffled, bamboozled, perplexed, confounded. My biggest feeling though, was the overwhelming sensation of this movie is asking a lot of me right now. And I spent the first 10 minutes in this movie in such a state of confusion that it took me a long time to really just sit back and enjoy the ride once I said, fuck it, it's camp.

SPEAKER_02 7:43

Yeah, exactly. You know what? There's really no time for logic, right? Logic doesn't belong in the movie. You just have to sit back and enjoy the ride, right? I I think one of the biggest feelings, right, of watching this movie is, and you kind of set it, right? How it kind of reinvents itself in a way in the first few minutes of the movie and then goes heavy into the film. And I know that there are some people out there that think the first Evil Dead is the best of the three, that some people think Army of Darkness is the best of three, some people have a really strong love for Evil Dead 2, right? Nobody's wrong. Everyone's entitled to their opinions and what you love, and that's great. I I think watching this, it really made me feel like it's so interesting what they did because you don't necessarily even have to watch the first one to watch this one. You know what I mean? Like it's a sequel and a remake, and it's its own thing, and it stands alone in a in essence, and it's almost and and it's also a prequel. Like it's crazy to think about, right? And something that I I've come to find is that over the years of talking about this in various conversations, is that when people talk about Evil Dead, nine times out of ten they're talking about Evil Dead 2 and not Evil Dead 1981.

SPEAKER_04 9:00

Really? I didn't realize that. Interesting. I mean, you know, you say all that, and the first thing that comes to my mind is of course Sam Raimi ended up doing multiverse of madness because that's kind of what this feels like Evil Dead and Evil Dead 2. It's just like a multiverse of I don't even know what. I almost wish that I had been warned a little bit because I'm cracking up just with all those B's that you mentioned, Chris, of what you were feeling. Because the mental gymnastics was very real in terms of the beginning. I definitely felt like I was losing my mind a little bit because I thought, is this a dream sequence? What's happening? Is this a whole other ash? Like, what in the world is going on? Who's this, Linda? I don't know this, Linda. What's going on? It was it was strange. But I think ultimately, like, it was it was heavy on the cringe. I was feeling a little cringe throughout, but at the same time, I was also entertained. Like there were it was a ebb and flow. You know, it was an ebb and flow. There were there's certain elements of the movie that pulled me in, others that pulled me out. Ultimately, I didn't feel as invested in what was happening on screen after I kind of realized, all right, this is not a sequel. And I think it has to do with me not really knowing what to expect. If I had gone gone into this thinking, like, think of this as like a whole other restart to this franchise, maybe I would have felt a little differently. But yeah, the mental gymnastics were very much real for sure.

SPEAKER_05 10:18

Is your mind sore from all the stretching it had to do? A little bit. You should probably get that checked out. You can go some physical therapy.

SPEAKER_04 10:25

Yeah, well, I'm just bracing myself for what's to come. Give a little icy hot. Not icy hot.

SPEAKER_01 10:29

I think you need to do some some mental yoga so you can be ready for just really enjoying movies because damn, Bruce Campbell finally feels like Bruce Campbell in this movie. The first movie is kind of shy, you know, everyone's still kind of young and inexperienced, but this this is where the sun starts to shine, and I absolutely love this era of Campy B movie goodness. I just the entire film had caps lock fun while watching this.

SPEAKER_04 10:56

And you know what it is though, is that I think I didn't since I only knew of Evil Dead and I didn't know what the franchise was, I didn't really realize that Bruce Campbell was this kind of actor, you know, or like let me or I guess specifically that Ash was this kind of character. I think I watched Evil Dead and I and I knew that kind of more serious kind of acting a little bit, and that serious type of archetype of a character, that then I see him here and I'm like, what? I I I think I was just a little bit off put by that.

unknown 11:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:30

I think by limiting yourself to have not seen any more than than the first one, it's like watching Friday the 13th and thinking that's Jason.

SPEAKER_03 11:39

I got you.

SPEAKER_01 11:40

You are just you just don't have the exposure. You don't have that you don't have enough to really judge the character because there's such an explosion in how the character changes over time. Even when you get to the TV shows, it's different from the last movie.

SPEAKER_04 11:52

Interesting. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 11:53

Yeah. This one, I mean, this one definitely picks up uh quick. Like it just goes at lightning speed.

SPEAKER_01 12:00

You gotta you gotta go hard in the paint, man. Get away from those dead eyes.

SPEAKER_02 12:03

Yep, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 12:05

But uh But speaking of just going, I was surprised. I just honestly forgot how well this movie uses bookend scenes to transition between the first movie and this one, and between this one and of course Army of Darkness. I think the Marvel cinematic universe has nothing on Evil Dead when it comes to transitioning between films.

SPEAKER_04 12:22

I guess we'll see. We'll find out when I watch. That's an interesting kind of like connection for that. I think what surprised me also was a little bit of a disappointment, but now with the context that you've given me in terms of Ash and kind of like what is to come, I think for me, once I settled into the fact that this is different and this is going to be different, I was hoping I would learn a little bit more about Ash or just kind of feel more connected to him, like I really was in the first one. And I think because ultimately it kind of is a sequel, though, that just relies so heavily on you knowing who Ash is and his story and just like kind of what's about to happen that he it just goes at such a fast pace. In the first 22 minutes, at the very least, he does some heinous things and it doesn't feel like it affects him as much as it would have in the Ash that we see in the first movie. Um, the decisions and the the internal conflict that he feels when he does certain things, it doesn't, it doesn't hit the same. And I'm just like, what is who is this guy? Was he like an assassin or something like in a past life? Like, what's going on here? Yeah. I guess I just kind of wasn't bought into who he was in this movie versus the first one.

SPEAKER_02 13:28

It it is really wild. The amount of shit that Ash actually goes through in this film is insane if you really think about it.

SPEAKER_05 13:35

So I think this is like an interesting dance that we're doing here with both of our experience levels and then our expectations, right? Because one thing that I did know about Ash is who he ends up becoming, A, through playing Dead by Daylight, and seeing what old Ash looks like as a playable character in that game, B, seeing all the memes, seeing so many photos of him from other movies, and understanding that he just fucking skyrockets into like this different stratosphere of a character. I I think for me, right, the that biggest surprise, you know, I've already well established it's the opening of the movie. It's it's really just my biggest disappointment because aside from that, I think Bruce Campbell, Bruce Campbell's, and he gives us the ash that I was expecting. So it's a really weird taste in my mouth almost because it's like, okay, like I expected this, but I was so caught off guard by just how we got there in the first place that I just didn't know what to make of it for a while.

SPEAKER_02 14:30

Yeah. I mean, I would imagine anyone not super familiar with this franchise or with these first two films, that would be one of the biggest surprises is the opening of the film. I know there are some people out there that think that the uh practical effects were elevated. I I felt the practical effects were very similar. I didn't see like what the budget did to the practical effects, and I'm not saying that they were bad. I enjoyed the practical effects. I think they are still really fun and awesome to look at, especially for its time. But what I did think was surprising was that the amount or the significant difference in the budget and the other type of effects that that was that were kind of thrown into the movie didn't really add to it. It it actually took away, in a sense, to me. Um, so that was kind of my biggest surprise, but I guess that's also kind of making it a disappointment in a way. First, Evil Dead had something like $375,000 budget, where Evil Dead 2 had $3.5 million budget, which is insane to think about.

SPEAKER_04 15:33

That is nuts.

SPEAKER_05 15:34

That's cinematic inflation. Can you imagine Sam Raimi making $5,000 in the box office of a $3 million film and then saying, nah, we believe in Stephen King enough to trust this guy with another $3.00 million? It's interesting that you bring up the effects there, Sean, because here's what this does for me. I agree the effects in the original were almost comparable. I do think they're they look a little bit more polished this time around. But what it really means for me, obviously, like this this movie is campy, it's funny. It really isn't scary at all, especially because of how hard it leans into comedy. But for those effects on, let me tell you this. My gag reflex was triggered.

SPEAKER_02 16:14

Oh no.

SPEAKER_05 16:15

Based on how much shit was flying into people's mouths. Rule number like 73, folks. Shut your fucking mouth in a horror movie. You don't want liquids going in there, you don't want body parts going in there. It's disgusting. The practical effects looked good. I think that would be the most frightening thing about this movie. Wondering what the hell would fall into your mouth. Not frightening, but disgusting.

SPEAKER_02 16:36

Well, one, it's it's impossible to keep your mouth closed in a horror movie because everyone's screaming, you know? I don't scream. Oh no.

SPEAKER_05 16:43

You'll see this in October when we go to Halloween Horror Nights. I don't scream. I panic internally. That's called military bearing.

SPEAKER_02 16:49

Okay, fair enough. Fair enough. You know, I agree. The film has some pretty gruesome and frightening images with the effects and whatnot, but the campy humor really takes the edge off of those moments, making it feel more ridiculous and more fun rather than scary, for sure.

SPEAKER_04 17:04

Yeah, I'd agree. I think I was um not uh scared as much as I was either like impressed by the effects or kind of like just laughing along with it. I I I didn't take it seriously, right? Like the things that were meant to be scary, I didn't take seriously and enjoyed them. So I agree. It kind of takes the edge off a little bit from from that. But also it is hella gross. Like that is without question. Gross as hell. A thousand percent.

SPEAKER_01 17:33

It's so funny that I I have such a strong memory of these films, such a strong connection to them, and I am not a fan of gore, like really in any way, but it doesn't, it doesn't really bother me. Maybe I'm just used to it, I guess, at this point. But it it's it's a lot, but it's almost like slapstick, you know? It's it's just such to such an extreme, and it's on purpose that it's that funny. I don't know, it's not scary, I don't think it's supposed to be. I I I think you got it right that the really comedy takes it away, it balances it out. It's it's all very deliberate, but it doesn't need it doesn't need to be scary. Who would want it to be scary? That would be really boring, to be honest.

SPEAKER_05 18:09

Um okay, yes, it would be boring, and I think part of why it would be so boring was because it's hard to imagine a world in which this movie isn't what it is. I really enjoy the more serious tone of the original movie, but even then, there are moments of comedy in camp. And you know that it's gonna be accelerated and you know that it's gonna continue on, but I can't imagine looking at this film the same, having if if you have if I were like you, Mac, and I lived a lifetime of knowing this for what it is, like that that'd be hard to reconcile in my mind. You gotta fucking applaud a bold move of just saying, let me undo what I did in the last movie, just redo it real quick, just so nobody notices, and then this let's just go in a completely different direction in terms of tone. Yeah, I think the the lore that we get in this movie is fantastic. I think the world building we get in this movie also fantastic, but truly to take what you set up as your first film, skip a movie, and then in your third film, like go back into to this and go this direction with things, I think it's honestly impressive, and it gets a lot of originality points for that.

SPEAKER_01 19:20

Yeah, you know who's God, who's that one singer? I think she she became pretty well known after leaving Destiny's Child, but I can't think of her name. Just kidding, it's Queen B, right?

SPEAKER_05 19:29

Oh, I thought you were gonna talk about Kelly Rowland. I thought we were gonna have a Freddie versus Jason moment, you know? No? Okay, got it.

SPEAKER_01 19:35

Oh no. But I I think it's okay to like redefine yourself and to let everyone know that their real you is the new you. There's nothing wrong with that. And this is this is what this movie does. It has that last time on Dragon Ball Z situation, so you can kind of forget the first movie in a way and let it be redefined in your mind. Like this is what is going to happen going forward. I think that's why this movie is so memorable for for everyone who's watched This and Army of Darkness. It's like, yeah, we saw the first one, but this is where this is where Ash and the Evil Dead really comes into itself.

SPEAKER_05 20:06

See, I think where I struggle is, but why? You know? I don't feel like the movie had to be redone, but that's just me enjoying the first movie, despite the horrific things that I hate about the first movie.

SPEAKER_02 20:17

Yeah, but you know, and when we're thinking about the why, right? Like the the why we kind of talked about before, right? It's in in a sense, we we couldn't get the rights to get the footage for the previous film. So we had to figure out a way to make this film happen and set it up so that they can continue on.

SPEAKER_05 20:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:37

And all I'm gonna say, all I'm gonna say, I mean, it's much of what both of you have already said, Mac and Chris, is this movie fucking remakes itself in a way and still finds a way to be original. That's fucking incredible.

SPEAKER_05 20:49

Yeah, it is, but I mean, can we just like take a moment to acknowledge that they did not need to recreate the whole first movie? They could have picked up exactly where the last movie ended and we'd be good. You know what I mean? It was unnecessary.

SPEAKER_02 21:01

Listen, where's the fun in that? Where's the fun in that?

SPEAKER_05 21:03

Plenty. A lot of horror movies do that. We're we're okay. We could have could have done without it.

SPEAKER_04 21:08

Look, I I completely agree with you a bit, Chris. It's kind of like I don't necessarily know the why, but yes, can't go without saying, once again, props to Sam Raimi for kind of like reclaiming his own movie in a sense and saying we're gonna keep going on. There you go. Reordering like the elements of the first movie, too, in a way, like kind of completely, you know. Certain things happen at the end of the first movie that now you start off with. Like, I thought that was kind of cool and original. So it's a f it's a new way to redo your own movie in six minutes, I guess. But props to him. I'll I'll give it to him.

SPEAKER_01 21:46

You know, it really does show like years of improvement, is what I'm thinking. Like, we have more skill now, we're better storytellers. Sure. We know really what we want to do, we know the vision. And yes, it's very different from the first movie. But you know, I think Raimi's probably just like, Hey, that's just who This is who I am now. You know, this is the guy who made the the masterpiece that is Spider-Man. Right. And the director of Evil Dead, the first one, could not make Spider-Man. Yeah. That that just would never have happened. And I think he really came into his own and didn't mind showing off his his new directorial chops.

SPEAKER_04 22:19

Which having been a fan of his other movies as well, I think now and and you saying that, something a light bulb just went off in my head. It's kind of like this isn't the start of his brands. Like you know how you see Sam Raimi movies now, and you know that that's Sam Raimi. I think like this is the testament to that, right? Is that is that kind of what you're saying?

SPEAKER_01 22:37

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 22:38

All right. Well, that that's good. Now that I've done this, I've I've traversed this movie, I've solidified that like holy shit, this is different. I can kind of approach what's to come, you know, with that kind of understanding, I think, because it was such a stark difference for me. The difference, you know, to be honest, I watched Evil Dead and then I watched the reboot, and then I watched Evil Dead too. I'm like, well, this is a lot of uh gymnastics here.

SPEAKER_02 23:00

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_05 23:01

Again, you must be so tired. It's a lot of blood. Yeah, it really is. So look, opening in the movie aside, right? I think part of what jarred me so much was because of how much I enjoyed the ending of the original. And I think when it comes to this movie's ending, it's a wild ride, dude. It it is it's intense and it doesn't feel like it's ever gonna let up, even when it's over. I still don't trust that it's over. And look, I'll say this, it has me excited to see Army of Darkness, but I swear, if this franchise pulls this shit one more time where it changes the ending of a previous movie, I don't know how I'm gonna feel because I almost find it more perplexing than the Friday the 13th timelines.

SPEAKER_01 23:42

Okay, uh a little bit, a little bit, not a lot, not a lot.

SPEAKER_02 23:45

Just a little bit, just a little bit.

SPEAKER_05 23:47

Oh Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 23:48

There's a there's just but just a just a like a smidgen. Yeah. It's still they they know how to use those bookends really well. You know, you but yeah, set your expectations accordingly. Just a little, a little subtlety, you know?

SPEAKER_05 24:00

God, here we go. Okay, people are gonna come for me uh with like the comparison of Halloween. Halloween two, several years after Halloween one, picks up right where the first movie ends. It goes a little previously right, it kind of leads into it a couple moments, but they also preserve the continuity of that entire fucking movie. So, okay, if if you're saying that there's a little bit of breaking continuity, then I will set my expectations accordingly and it better be a fun movie.

SPEAKER_04 24:28

Okay, well, all right, fine. You know what? As long as the only continuity that I need is that Bruce Campbell remains hot, and that's really it. As long as he continues to be fine as hell, then I'll be fine. And I'm pretty sure that I'll I'll be okay because that is definitely the case. In terms of the ending, though, I'll tell you what, couldn't agree more. What in the whole hell was that? That was something, that's for sure. I should have known based off of one adjustment to the character that whatever what was to happen after the fact was gonna be a shit show. That should have been my fair warning. But yeah, I I guess we'll see. We'll see what's to come. I don't I don't have much to say other than what the hell. I I'm just perplexed, can't wait to hear y'all's takes because I left that movie ended and I was just staring at the screen like, what did I just watch?

SPEAKER_02 25:16

Oh no.

SPEAKER_04 25:17

It was very bizarre.

SPEAKER_02 25:19

You know, I I feel like I need to think about the listeners out there that maybe haven't seen this movie or maybe haven't seen Army of Darkness, rather, right? Because had I not already seen Army of Darkness and knowing what comes next, I don't know that I would have enjoyed the ending as much. I'm thinking back to when I first watched the film and trying to figure out like what my thought process was, but it's been so long that I truly can't remember what that feeling was. Overall, it is a very strange ending for sure. And if you don't know what comes next, it is fucking strange and even it just even more strange. So I I get what you're all feeling, and I cannot wait for you all to watch Army of Darkness.

SPEAKER_01 26:01

Yeah, this I mean the ending is of course campy, it's ridiculous, it's out there, but for me, coming from the same point of view as Sean, it's so satisfying to watch. It's like watching Superman donning his cape for the first time. That's what it's like for me.

SPEAKER_02 26:16

Yeah, that's a good way to put it. I love that.

SPEAKER_05 26:18

Okay, well, look, the level of complexity of these timelines aside, we gotta start making our way to discerning how we feel about this movie. Now, before we get to our ratings, Sean, how would you describe the gore score?

SPEAKER_02 26:30

The gore in this film is intense. It's incredible. It's eye candy for all you gore lovers out there, but it's not like the gritty gore, right? It's it's campy gore, it's fun gore. The film has decapitations, limbs being cut off, mutilated bodies, and blood galore. The film easily gets a high to severe gore score.

SPEAKER_05 26:52

And what about the animal report?

SPEAKER_04 26:54

You know, I'd say that we're all clear, because I'm pretty sure that we are, but I I gotta say, special effects-wise, that part's a little debatable. I I don't know if we've got a fact check ourselves, but I'm just saying I feel like PETA would be a little would be a little sus for sure.

SPEAKER_05 27:11

All right, well, let's go ahead and get into our ratings then. Evil Dead 2 from 1987. Was it a hack or a slash?

SPEAKER_01 27:17

You know, I'll go first. I I'd say hail to the king, baby. You already know this movie is a slash for me. Ashy, slashy, in all his glory. This is like the moment Jason switches from the bag to the hockey mask, even if you're not a big fan, you feel the excitement of history being made. This is a clear improvement over the original in effects, in editing, in acting, in tone, and it's so close to the timeless perfection that is Army of Darkness. It's a slash.

SPEAKER_05 27:46

I mean, I was like 99% with you until you said tone. Okay, look, I I don't know what to say.

SPEAKER_04 27:52

I don't know what to say, and I don't even know how to follow that because I think I'm still processing this movie. And and my struggle here is that I knew that after talking to you guys about this movie, that they're especially the two of you, Mac and Sean, like maybe I would feel differently. Maybe I wouldn't. It's just one of those, it's just one of those movies where I feel like I had I wish I had spoken to you all about this franchise and this movie before I watched it. And it's not to have it affect my opinion of it, but to maybe open the door a little bit wider in terms of, you know, giving it a shot. I think my struggle here is that I'm comparing it to its predecessor and I thought that it was a continuation of it instead of thinking of them as two separate entities. And I think you mentioned it earlier, Sean, where people kind of have this back and forth of whether Evil Dead 2 is better than Evil Dead and this whole bit. Um and honestly, I have to say I agree, everyone's entitled to their opinion, of course, right? Um but I think it's kind of criminal a little bit to think that Evil Dead 2 is better than Evil Dead 1 currently as it stands. Maybe I will change my mind when I've seen all of them and now with this furthered context. But I just what? You know, I enjoyed parts of this movie for sure. I appreciate a lot of the things that are have gone into it. And now, yes, can I see that this is like the start of the brand that is Sam Raimi? Absolutely. So my final jurisdiction, honestly, though, is still gonna have to be a very soft hack. Maybe, you know, I keep saying this every now and then, maybe I'll feel differently at the end of the year. I feel like it's very different from the few episodes I participated in last year where I had nothing to rehash or re-slash or whatever. I'm giving it a soft hack for now, and and maybe that'll change later on.

SPEAKER_02 29:37

All right. You know, this might be a hot take for some of you out there, but I'll I'm just gonna go out and say it. This film is arguably one of the best can't be horror movies of all time. It's up there. The film finds a way to reinvent itself, and it's more than just a sequel to the first one. It's an amazing prequel to Army of Darkness. This film hits the gas from the very beginning and is just relentless. If you love horror movies, this is a must-watch. It's entertaining from start to finish. There's no dull moments, it does not let up. It's a fucking slash for me.

SPEAKER_05 30:12

It was the oomph in the it's a fucking slash for me that really did it for me.

SPEAKER_04 30:17

It was the conviction, the conviction in the it's a fucking slash that really was just like I feel like Mac and Sean are like pushing me off a cliff. Like, leave this island, bitch. Get off.

SPEAKER_05 30:28

Oh no. Damn. Look, if Mac and Sean are here to push you off a cliff, let me extend a friendly hand to catch you where you fall. Because I think you and I feel very similarly about this movie. It's absolutely absurd, y'all. I mean, we have to acknowledge that, right? This movie is absurd. It's one thing to buy into the camp of the movie, but it's another thing entirely to buy into the revisionist history the first six minutes because it's fucking unnecessary. And nothing on this earth will ever convince me otherwise. Give me all the context you want, give me all the subtext, give me Sam Raimi reclaiming his film. I don't care. He could have just picked it up right where the spirit was like gonna enter Ash Williams from the ending of the first film, and it would have been fine. I've come to really enjoy the original Evil Dead film, and this is certainly an iteration. It does so much well, but it does so at the cost of doing some wild things in the beginning that I just honestly find completely unnecessary. I get, right, that I I get, I really understand that in a movie in which like it prides itself on continuously raising the bar of its own humor and its own absurdity and clownery, it's unreasonable or impractical for me to sit here and think about what's necessary, right? So often in these movies, none of it really is, and that's part of the charm. I had to really sit with this one because I'll say this the tree scene in this is such an improvement from the first film. It does still a little bit of stuff that I find unnecessary, but I found myself really missing the slightly more serious tone. And I think it says a lot when I know I'm very aligned with Binks and that I prefer the original Evil Dead over Evil Dead 2, for sure. That's hands down, no question. I had to really do a lot of soul searching in this and hope then that a Kandarian demon would possess my soul and you know correct the error of my ways, because it's like, do I appreciate the good in this movie when it started out so terribly for that experience? It felt like I had cinematic whiplash with what was going on. And ultimately, this is where I land, Evil Dead 2 is a soft slash. And I feel like maybe Binx and I are gonna switch at the end of the year because it took a lot for me to get to the soft slash side, and I think it was a lot of the appreciation for just Bruce Campbell as a whole. I don't know that I'm gonna stay that way after watching Army of Darkness. Maybe Army of Darkness will be great, and it makes me appreciate this movie less. Who knows?

SPEAKER_01 33:01

I can't wait to find out.

SPEAKER_05 33:02

I'm speechless. Well, there you have it, folks. Evil Dead 2 from 1987 has earned two strong slashes, one soft slash and a soft hack. Now you can find this movie streaming online, uh, available for rent or purchase, so go check it out. Then join us in the second half so we can unpack that camp together. We'll see you in a bit.

SPEAKER_00 33:36

But who wants to go to a stuffy old dance studio? Life's too short for that, and nobody has time for that even when you're dead. We all know that learning how to dance is a great way to get in shape, meet new soul vessels, and get rid of some stress. But spending your evening in a class patch with drill, mouth-breathing, meatbags, boost math, a good time mate. Limbert Linda's Dead Eye Dance School is the perfect solution. Our online dance studio offers personalized lessons for the best teachers possible, the undead, so you can rest assured that your lessons will be flexible and the results are in this world! So sign up today for Limbert Linda's Dead Eye Dance School, and we'll get every bone in your body moving and grooving. It's bone-chilling fun after all. And remember, not another peep. Time to move those feet.

SPEAKER_05 34:59

Sean, let's go through the kills.

SPEAKER_02 35:01

Alright, so we have something like 13 kills in this one. Again, we are taking into account that people getting possessed will count as a kill or a death, right? So you would have to count Ash getting possessed as a death both times. If not, then that would take the count down to nine. But you know what? The demons inside Ash are really in there saying possession is nine-tenths of the law.

SPEAKER_01 35:27

Wow. I'm I'm gonna pull out an easy one here, and one that is surprising based on my preferences. A character being pulled into a cellar and then turned into a blood splosion. Excuse me, to quote Ryan.

SPEAKER_02 35:41

Oh no.

SPEAKER_05 35:42

Listen here. My favorite kill in this movie, and I feel like, how dare you? How dare you sweep this from under me, Jake? That that blood splosion that you just talked about, Mac, it feels like the Kool-Aid man tried to run into a wall, but then died. You know what I mean? Instead of like actually bursting through.

SPEAKER_02 36:02

Oh my gosh. Not the Kool-Aid man.

SPEAKER_05 36:04

Yo, it's the Kool-Aid man. You can't tell me that wasn't fucking Kool-Aid. You can't tell me. I saw how watery that shit was. That was the same Kool-Aid my cousin made because she never made it sweet enough. That's the same Kool-Aid. It was dramatic. It was it had a flair. I enjoyed it. I was ready for him to expire. It was a great moment.

SPEAKER_02 36:20

Yeah, you know what? You're talking about one of the bloodiest scenes in the film, right? And it's really interesting that uh the producers actually insisted on using different colors of blood to try to avoid an X-rating, which didn't work at all because uh the MPAA actually did give it an X rating anyway, so ultimately it was released unrated. So there's that.

SPEAKER_05 36:41

Jokes on you, Kool-Aid man.

SPEAKER_02 36:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 36:43

You died in Maine.

SPEAKER_02 36:45

You know what's also funny, if you were lucky enough to see the deleted scenes for this movie, I believe that there is a scene where Ash or evil Ash bites the head off of a squirrel. So that would bring the animal report to a whole different story.

SPEAKER_05 37:00

Whoa. A nibble, perhaps. Damn.

SPEAKER_01 37:03

I'm so glad they didn't do that, like in the final cut, because that's that's unnecessary.

SPEAKER_04 37:08

Unnecessary for sure. What the fuck did a squirrel do to you, Ash? Or possessed Ash or whatever the hell. Look, I it's hard for me to pick a favorite kill. I think they're all kind of absolutely insane. So I don't think I really necessarily have a favorite one. I think uh the first one that comes to mind is one of the first ones. I mean, the dead Linda just out here, decapitated body swinging at you, and you just like serve it right back to her, headless and all. And I was like, man, she really gave the performance of a lifetime earlier, and you just sliced her in half a little bit. Black goo. Ugh. It's just it was the start of the end.

SPEAKER_01 37:43

It makes you question, are we human or are we dancer?

SPEAKER_02 37:46

Ah, yes. Did anyone else feel like the deadites in this one? Maybe especially Evil Ash looked a lot like the vampires from Buffy the Vampire Slayer?

SPEAKER_04 37:54

Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Which kind of like, I don't know, is a little bit of why I didn't I wasn't as scared or whatnot. I was kind of like, ooh, this looks a little familiar, but like a little grosser?

SPEAKER_05 38:05

Familiar, but yikes. There's some sharp lines on the face when they really like have the mouth region going that I just have never really been a fan of. Yeah. I like I liked Buffy the Vampire Slayer a lot. Like I love Sarah Michelle Gallery. I enjoyed the Buffy the Vampire Slayer like movie, all that stuff. But I was never that crazy about that style of vampire. Even though I can acknowledge that they objectively look good, it's just not my preferred go-to.

SPEAKER_02 38:31

Yeah. I I think we're thinking of like favorite kills. I mean, there's there's some good ones, and obviously Jake's is really intense, but um maybe not the actual kill. I don't know, but when Ash has like Linda's severed head in the vice grip on the workbench or the clamp or whatever, and you see him going like for the kill for that severed head with the chainsaw, but you see it like in through the just the shadow of it, it's such a cool scene. It it might be one of my favorite visual elements as well, but the the blood hitting the light bulb and the and the room turning red, uh, that was such a a cool, I don't know, after kill, if you will.

SPEAKER_05 39:11

Yeah, and the the the after bloodbath. It's good. You know, anytime we get a moment of red lighting in a movie, you know that's mesh it's from all over it.

SPEAKER_02 39:21

Yeah, yeah, for sure. But you know what? Before we get into like visuals and all that, can we just take a moment to talk about Bobby Joe for a second? They did a much better job with the tree scene in this one, right? I mean that they she got taken by the trees and just I don't know, killed, whatever, whatever happened, but much more tasteful in my opinion.

SPEAKER_04 39:41

Absolutely, a hundred percent. I I mean I figured that that was gonna be a gripe of of ours, like from the first one. Um and unfortunately, of course, the reboot just naturally decided to keep that somehow for some reason. Um, but yeah, I appreciated that this uh was kind of edited. Something that was a good change.

SPEAKER_05 40:03

Whisking her away was was a good choice. I just still don't see why they completely had to just unbutton the shirt, you know what I mean? The rest of it, like it's not like they just did that with the rest of her appearance, you know what I mean? It was still um yeah, it was still like hypersexualizing it in a way. Again, nowhere near as bad, much more acceptable, but still imperfect to me.

SPEAKER_01 40:23

So they they absolutely have a missed opportunity. If you're going to grab somebody's arms and legs with with trees and vines, you should be treating them as a marionette. That's one option, is make them do a silly puppet dance. Or like Chris suggested, um, rip them in half. That's a great way to end it.

SPEAKER_05 40:42

Yeah, just fucking tear their soul apart, bro. Pull some hellraiser shit with trees. You know, it's like a very environmental hellraiser. Earthraiser.

SPEAKER_01 40:51

I love that. Earthraiser. Recycling right there. That's all that is.

SPEAKER_04 40:54

I appreciate that it's a little more on the tasteful side-ish, even though there's still some issues and they definitely could have been better. But I think I'm also trying to be unfortunately realistic of the time in and of itself. So I wasn't expecting like a full-blown change. And the irony, like I just said, that the reboot remained the almost the same. So, and that's all the way what 2013 was that reboot? You know, there's that. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 41:19

There's a good candidate here for least favorite death, though, or least favorite kill, and that's Annie getting stabbed in the back by Ash's severed hand holding the Kendarian dagger. Like that hurt it hurts a little bit because Annie made it. She almost made it, she was so close.

SPEAKER_05 41:33

You know, she got penetrated by his dagger, huh? Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 41:36

If only that scene you mentioned earlier, Sean, with Ash using the chainsaw and the vice and the red lighting was frickin' gorgeous. Almost my favorite visual element. It was like the temptation was there, but I have to go simple. There's something about Ash holding the chainsaw and the boomstick, full superhero garb, basically, at this point. The Avengers have assembled. We've got our hero. And maybe that'll make more sense to the other two when they when they make it through Army of Darkness, yeah. And we're watching a horror movie, and there's just something amazing about it.

SPEAKER_02 42:19

There were so many great moments in the film, so many really cool visuals. Again, much like the previous film, right? The cinematography in the film was really great. When you see that moment, when you see Ash is now peeking through the cellar door on the floor, the one eye with the blood, that is such a great visual moment.

SPEAKER_04 42:41

Yeah, that's my favorite one for sure, because I saw it instantly and I was like, wow, the parallel. Yes. Because of his sister, you know, in in the first one, oh, I loved it, loved it, loved it. Just the one eye. And it really that was what creeped me out a little bit too, because not only was it the parallel, but kind of like, all right, now that we know he's been possessed, or like what are what's gonna happen to him, right? I I don't know. That's kind of what kind of drew drew me back in after the what the fuck am I watching? Uh so I'll give it that.

SPEAKER_05 43:11

Okay, like the the first moment that I got drawn back in. We talk about like the possession, the fact that he got possessed, right? My favorite visual element, period, is actually surprisingly, the possessed Gondarian demons so much more. Uh obviously, they looked cool, especially with the low budget from the original film. And I know I just talked about how the strong lines on like Buffy the Vampire Slayer, like those vampires are not my favorite thing, but I think they looked so damn cool. But particularly him, how does Bruce Campbell still look attractive as a fucking demon? You know what I mean? Like, it's not it's not fair. I'm not here just trying to get a date, and this motherfucker's a whole ass demon looking that good. It's ridiculous. Illegal.

SPEAKER_02 43:56

Listen, like it or not, the film is hands down one of the most Most visually stunning films for its time. It has undoubtedly served as like inspiration for horror movies to come, really, when you think about it. Its impact on the horror genre is truly undeniable. Uh, and you think about the effects and stuff that were used. Um, and not, I mean, even just not just visuals, right? When you think of like sound effects and things that they did, I think what's really cool is uh the sounds of like when when the evil is traveling through the forest and stuff, they Sam Raimi actually used a combination of his voice and audio samples of the great Orson Wells himself, which uh it I I I think that was his last appearance in a film. I'm not sure, but like such a cool thing to do. And Sam Raimi, that's what he was really good at, both in this film and the previous film, um, is just what you know what cool sounds he was able to capture himself and really think outside of the box and be really creative to give you some really great sound effects throughout the film.

SPEAKER_01 45:00

So I think many of us have something visually here that was done very well. We have that in mind as part of our favorite scene in some way. And I'm just gonna call it out, but Ash fighting his own hand to the point where eventually he has to cut it off. But fighting it attached to him is so camp and so uh amazing because he does he just does an amazing job with it. You would believe that something has actually gotten into his hand and is trying to take him out. It doesn't just read as silly guy does silly things with his hand, it reads as this character is fighting his hand. I love and I love it. Bruce Campbell was just phenomenal with that.

SPEAKER_05 45:40

I'm fully convinced that you're in my head, in my notes, reading from my notes, Mac, because once again we are aligned. My favorite scene is right 30 minutes into the movie, and it's the cutting off of his own hand. It's extreme, right? It's insane. It's a rendition of Thing from the Addams family, and it's like if Thing was slightly less appropriate. And I think what what I love so much about that, right? Not only like the conviction of his performance, of being like it's a guy fighting his hand, even more than that, we get this like beautiful note of camp with the uh farewell to arms book that's weighing down the bucket he's trying to trap the hand in, as if the hand is bidding farewell to his own arm. It's it's an absolutely hilarious like visual joke, and I think for me, it's bested only by the hilarious Muppet-like sounds the hand makes. Oh god. That's so fucking weird, and I love it. I love it. Ash had more chemistry with his severed right hand than he had with any versions of his girlfriend in the last two movies, and that's Camp.

SPEAKER_02 46:41

Oh my gosh, that's hilarious. You know, it is a good scene for sure, especially when he's cutting the hand off with the blood splattering, his facial expression. So good. Um, what I think is so it's that that scene is interesting because I believe that that scene where he's fighting his hand before he cuts it off was inspired by a 1979 short film called Attacking or Attack of the Helping Hand, um, which is interesting. But I also thought, like, man, watching this back and him fighting, smashing the plates over his head and all that stuff, it really gave me uh this feeling that Jim Carrey may have got inspiration from this for like Liar Liar. That I mean he he he did the whole you know hand fighting, beating himself up. It really, it really felt like he was taking a uh a play out of Ash's book for that scene.

SPEAKER_04 47:35

Damn. Maybe I could see that. I can definitely see that. For me, I think I I do enjoy that scene a lot, and I have to say, just a quick note, the nails on that hand must have been strong as hell for him to like for them to literally carry that body and drag him. So I gotta go to that manicurist immediately.

SPEAKER_05 47:52

And yet they looked so brittle and rotted. Incredible. It's wild, it's an optical illusion. Insane.

SPEAKER_04 47:58

But for me, I I I really enjoyed this particular scene where Ash is definitely like losing his mind more than he probably already has, and uh the house is just going nuts and everything is just laughing, he's laughing, it's just complete chaos. Yeah, but then he suddenly just like comes to and just shoots that gun. I I I enjoyed it a lot because I was like, oh, this guy's going absolute bonkers, and then all it's like that last bit of of sanity that he had left was what was just gonna rip him out of that moment and just shoot that gun to like to just wake up a little bit. It also woke me up, to be honest. Not not because I was sleeping, but like woke me up in the sense of like, oh, that's right, like uh we he's gotta he's gotta fight them, he's gotta win, you know, he's gotta get through this. So I thought it was really good.

SPEAKER_05 48:41

Oh my gosh. I love so much that you said that. And a few things come to mind. One, the hilarious bouncing that he was doing. It's kind of like how I dance sometimes at work when people ask me to dance. But what I love so much is that like you talk about it waking you up, right? For me, that was a very sobering moment because I thought, oh my god, wait, hold on. Are we gonna get back to the serious tone of the original? And then we didn't. You know, I thought, who did this man just murder? And then she like barely was grazed. I'm like, I okay, okay, that's fine. But you just made me think him with a shotgun, losing his mind, going crazy, and then shooting someone. How amazing would it be to see, or to have seen, I guess, in the past, a Bruce Campbell performance in an Amityville horror movie where he's perhaps maybe Ronald DeFeo from the original murders. Or maybe it's like a campy recreation if you know, because that that franchise just like got so far gone. Man, I feel like that would have been something to see. It's just Bruce Campbell with a shotgun, it's all it is. It's a brand. It's a vibe.

SPEAKER_01 49:39

So that you know, people always used to ask me if I was gonna get a tattoo one day, and this movie inspired me, and of course, Emmery of Darkness inspired me to say that the only tattoo I would get would be the Statue of Liberty holding a chainsaw and a shotgun.

SPEAKER_02 49:51

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 49:52

And smoking a cigar and riding two dolphins as jet skis, but that that's just extra.

SPEAKER_05 49:57

I know an artist.

SPEAKER_02 50:00

Oh my gosh. You know, it's really it's really tough. There's so many, it to in in my opinion, there's so many really good scenes in this film. Uh, one that comes to mind that I really loved was the car scene where the evil is chasing Ash in the car, and Ash like goes through the windshield, somehow miraculously gets up and starts running back to the cabin, and then the chase like continues and proceeds like through the entire cabin. It was such a cool scene the way they shot it, everything. One of my favorites in the movie by far.

SPEAKER_04 50:31

How did he survive that, honestly?

SPEAKER_02 50:33

Dude, the things that Ash survived in this film is just uh it's beyond me, honestly.

SPEAKER_04 50:38

That's a very good point.

SPEAKER_02 50:40

But what about also the uh the scene where Ash is like the rocking chair, right, is moving and he's going towards the rocking chair and he's reaching out and he goes to like touch something, and it it looks like he actually does feel something, and then he starts to freak out. His facial expressions in this movie are just so good. And right after that, going into that mirror scene, right, with his reflection popping out, really getting to see like one the evil or the house really really fucking with him, but like, is he going insane? Like it was it's such a cool way to portray like what's happening and how he's being tormented. There was just so many cool scenes back to back to back.

SPEAKER_04 51:22

Which I think is what I appreciate so much in the first film is that I I like I mean, we know that I love the haunting, so it's kind of like the the slow burn of the maddening of the main character that you kind of get in the first one, in a way, even though it's it's a fast-paced movie, right? But this is just like all of that condensed in 22 minutes. Um and it's just so much, nonetheless. I appreciate it that you're still when it kind of slows down just a bit for you to be able to ingest it, it really is like slowly but surely this guy's losing his mind. What is it that he's really fighting? What is it that he's who is it the antagonist here? We know what it is, but like does he know what it is? It's it's interesting for sure.

SPEAKER_02 52:07

Yeah. And and there's just so many cool little scenes too that just kind of sneak in there that you just have to really appreciate, right? Like there's the there's that scene where his you know possessed severed hand is like running away and it gets caught in the mousetrap, and then it flips Ash off. It's brilliant, like that's such a a fun scene. Um, or or like uh when they jump on Linda's severed head or whatever, whoever's head that was in the cellar door and the eyeball pops out and flies flies right into Bobby Joe's mouth. Come on, amazing.

SPEAKER_03 52:40

Right in the mouth.

SPEAKER_01 52:41

There was uh just a lot of a lot of randomly entertaining bits that they really like threw in, you know? And I think they just they packed it to the brim with stuff that and it really helps keep your attention for sure. Lots going on with Ash in this movie, but I think what's interesting, especially if you consider the first movie to be the full canon like that it is, right? Because you can say that it was written out by this movie, but you can include it. Um the first movie Ash is is kind of reserved and he's kind of shy and he's kind of weak. And I think we get a very different Ash here, even from the start of the movie to the end, because he's had it, he's just been through everything and he's losing it. And at some point he's you know, he's strong enough to just go, whatever. I'm just gonna cut my own hand off and put a chainsaw where it used to be. And that's badass. That is just every teenage boy's idea of badass. And uh to see that person progress throughout this movie, just a very different character. And there's more to come, don't you worry. You're gonna get another ash in Army of Darkness. It's gonna be different and it's gonna be very interesting.

SPEAKER_02 53:47

Nice.

SPEAKER_01 53:47

Thanks. Bring plenty of water, you know, you're gonna need some cold water.

SPEAKER_03 53:52

Good.

SPEAKER_01 53:53

You're gonna love it. He's gonna have some one-liners that are very memorable, so you're you're gonna love that too. But when he gets to that point in this movie where he says groovy, it's just like hell yeah. Like this dude is getting it that there's no way out, and all you gotta do is just keep fighting and and be gnarly, do really gross, disgusting things to kill these deadites.

SPEAKER_05 54:12

Yeah, let me just say, like, he this man was really carrying the whole movie, and I think for as wild of a ride as it was, and as much as I disliked the opening of it, being able to see him come into his own, you know what I mean, and and to see how expressive he was and to see how Ash has evolved. I I absolutely adored that aspect of this movie so much because the clowns at the tow truck, they weren't the move for me, they weren't it. Um, okay. Look, we have obviously Annie, a Virgo queen who shares a birthday with Binks. Very exciting. I was uh on the lookout for that. But beyond her being cool, the rest of them just kind of sucked. And I feel like any moment spent with them was a moment not with Ash, and like, yeah, we need to have had the body count, but also I just want to get back to Ash. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 55:00

You know, they had other contenders for a final girl because I think Annie could have been the final girl. I think Bobby Joe had a little bit of that little bit of that energy when we first meet her. Could have gone, could have gone all the way, but no, quickly dispatched. Uh Jake, you're right though.

SPEAKER_05 55:14

Uh famed final girl, Ashley Williams.

SPEAKER_01 55:16

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 55:17

But you you know, you're onto something there, Mac. I know she was taken out really quick, but Bobby Joe, I think, did have a pretty good performance as quick as it was. I really think the scene where she is running and screaming through the woods, I think was really fantastic. It was it was a genuinely good scene, but yes, she did get taken out very quickly.

SPEAKER_04 55:35

Yeah, it was a little unfortunate. And I would say it is kind of that though. As an ensemble, who sticks out the most to me is obviously gonna be Ash, and then any kind of like sequential order, I guess. But yeah, I mean, Bobby Joe definitely was a standout in terms of their characters, not a bad performance at all. I just don't think that any of them and their story really resonated with me enough to really remember a lot about them, is which is I think is maybe the point though, right? Like maybe that's the point of the franchise or where this is going. You have these supplemental characters to kind of have these deadites take over. It's not so that you fall in love with them and then all of a sudden they're possessed, and oh my god, how heartbreaking. It's not really about that. I mean, am I wrong? Is that I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 56:24

I think that's I think that's pretty good. You're gonna get some interesting things with with characters as as we go further, as we go into the next movie. I know we can't review the TV show, but the TV show really turns things up a notch when it comes to having characters that are really kind of independent, yet also very, very interesting characters. There's a brew ha. I'm just gonna say that, okay. I'm gonna throw that out there so you're missing out if you don't make it all the way to the TV show. But um, and this one, I mean, you know, Jake is Jake is interesting. Jake comes out like I'm gonna be the strong one, I'm gonna make the decisions, gonna make something happen. And we're watching like you're a buffoon. Yeah, you're you're not gonna do anything. When in reality, Ash is also a buffoon, right? Right, but Ash is actually in charge and is going Ash will cut his own hand off, Jake. So just so sit down. Yeah, right. You wouldn't do that.

SPEAKER_04 57:10

Yeah, you're not willing to do what it takes, sir. Please get out of the way.

SPEAKER_02 57:14

Yeah, I I mean, yeah, you're not wrong. I I agree. I think this is the Ash show, you know what I mean? Like it's all it is, it is for the most part all about Ash and what Ash is doing. Uh, and what he brings to the film, you know, it works, man. It it's like it I said it before, like the facial expressions, what he can really bring out, like emotion-wise, out of the character with what he portrays on screen. I think, you know, yes, it's a little bit campy, sometimes it's a little over the top, but like it works for the film, and I couldn't, I I mean, you couldn't imagine another person playing that character, right? So Ash really does steal the show. Um, but I did think, I don't know if if any of you knew this, but uh Sam Raimi's brother, Ted Raimi, actually plays Deade Henrietta in this film.

SPEAKER_04 58:04

I realized that when I looked up the movie afterwards, and I was like, holy shit, rewind the tape. I need to see this man again because I've seen him obviously does like some some cameos in other films that he's done, but I most recently played the quarry and I was like, what in the world? What a transformation.

SPEAKER_00 58:24

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_05 58:25

I think that's the only place I know Ted Raimi from. From the Quarry?

SPEAKER_01 58:28

You never watched Xena?

SPEAKER_05 58:30

I mean, like, I watched it when I was young. I couldn't tell you who the fuck Ted Raimi was in that. I could tell you who Zina was. Oh my. Fair enough.

SPEAKER_01 58:38

Oh, you're gonna you're gonna love the TV show Ash Ash vs. Evil Dead, let me tell you that there's more Xena goodness in it.

SPEAKER_05 58:44

So well, I I look forward to that wholeheartedly.

SPEAKER_01 58:47

Let me bring this to a character that we have not talked about at all. And that is the professor who decides it's a good idea to bring the book of the dead or whatever, to a cabin in the middle of nowhere, yeah, and then like hang out with his wife, invite his family to then join him while he goes through it, and just leave it chilling while I mean, I guess he's dead at this point, right? That's what we're gonna assume.

SPEAKER_02 59:10

Assuming, yes.

SPEAKER_01 59:11

Yeah, he's dead. But like, dude, put it in a museum, don't read from it, first of all. Don't read anything from it. But then this is all his fault in the end. He is the horror movie dad who made all the decisions.

SPEAKER_02 59:23

Yeah. I mean, come on, you you gotta think, right? You bring the Book of the Dead to a remote location and start reading incantations. What could fucking possibly go wrong?

SPEAKER_05 59:34

In his defense, they're in a secluded place, miles away from anyone. I feel like if you're gonna read a book of the dead somewhere, it might as well be there. I it's it's pretty, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 59:45

That's like the best setting for it, I guess.

SPEAKER_03 59:48

No one ever learns though.

SPEAKER_05 59:49

Where else does one read the book of the dead? You read the book of the dead anywhere else and you're fucked. At least here there was no one around, really. They had to like just wait for bodies to show up to be possessing something. Touche. All that aside, though, I still stand by the fact that of the entire viewing experience of this film, for me, the worst part is still the first six minutes of it. And I was even going back through and trying to find like, okay, in my notes, what are my negative hits here, right? And I don't have a single one outside of that first six minutes. It is, it was my range of like Ash got way more handsome in the last six years to wait, is this just a remake of The Evil Dead, but like slightly more appealing visually? Uh, then just to this absurdity of like, what is going the fuck on right now? That first six minutes really disrupted the experience for me, but beyond that, it really redeemed itself. So I'd say if that's the worst thing it has going for it, maybe it's not so bad.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:47

I would say I I think the best part is that that there is a shift to some extent. Like once I've really marinated in the fact that this is a different movie, I can buy into it a little bit more, right? And now I'm approaching the rest of this franchise with that in mind. So I think the best part is that it's daring enough to just change and then hopefully commit to that change moving forward so that I don't have to continue this roller coaster ride of uh what the fuck am I watching? You know, and and I'm sure that I will to some extent, but like in terms of the comedy and the and the camp and whatnot, like, all right, that's what this is gonna be, great, done. Check mark. Now I can move forward.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:30

Yeah, I I mean, so it for me it's really hard to pick a worse part of the movie. I I definitely feel, you know, I crit Chris, I know what you're saying. Like, why did why did the that first five or six minutes redoing the first film, whatever had to be there? I I I it didn't I didn't mind it that much, really. It didn't like throw me off that much. It it is interesting, but I feel like it did a good job, like still feeling like a new movie right after that, and it was still fun. I think if I had to find a worse part for me, digging really deep, it would just have to be trying to figure out why or what what the explanation was for how Ash can go in and out of possession without being overcome by the evil and dying, like literally every fucking buddy else.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:14

He's just a strong man, as strong as his jaw is chiseled.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:19

Oh, you got it. It's the jawline, the jawline is his magic.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:22

Yeah, everyone everyone else in that movie had a weak chin, bro. You can't compete with that. What are you? Scotty from the first movie? Fuck that guy. No.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:29

Yeah. We we have a guy here that's so not strong jawlined that we haven't even talked about him. Ed. What happened to Ed? Who even cares? His jaw's not there, he's not the chin. Bruce Campbell is the chin, and thus Ash has to be able to survive. So that's just that's just how it goes. I I think it's hard to pick a worse part of this movie for me, but I'll I'll pick one. You know, we talked about how the tree scene in the previous movie um was easily a worse part. I think this one did a lot better. But you know, when you when you have camp, there's gonna be some extremes. There's gonna be some moments that are not campy at all, maybe even too serious, and then there's gonna be some some moments that are too silly, and that's the claymation dance scene. That was so incredibly silly that it was it was the outlier, and there's nothing wrong with that. I just think it happens to be the outlier for me that like takes me out of takes me out of like the nice middle ground, and it's actually a fun scene, but I'm still gonna call it the worst part of the movie.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:28

Wow. Bold. I loved the ba the body dancing so much because it here's the thing a really silly thing about me is I love this one an animated film, Anastasia, and there's a song within that movie, uh, Once Upon a December, and when I saw this naked, headless corpse dancing, all I could think was dancing bears, painted wings, things I almost remember, and a song someone sings once upon a December. And I was just like listening to that music in my head, watching her go, and I thought, yeah, man, work it. That's great. Own your power. I love it.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:03

Meanwhile, I'm like, I don't know, is she like maybe listening to Bad Bunny or something in dancing? Like it can't be a multitude of things. Oh no.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:10

You know, I think the the dancing body is actually one of the few things that that makes me consider re-watching this movie. I think I could appreciate it more on a second watch, now being adequately prepared and understanding what I'm getting into. I I do think something that Bing said very early on still holds true for me, and that is because of how absurd and zany the movie gets, I'm less emotionally invested in everything that happens. So I'd be I'd be curious to see how it feels another time.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:41

Yeah. Well, you know, like when you watched Evil Dead 1981, again, it grew on you. So hopefully this one will continue to grow on you the next time around. This one is is definitely one that I will continue to watch time and time again. It's just a fun movie, it's a comfort movie in many ways, and it brings me back to my early years hanging out with my friends and just having a lot of laughs, you know. And I was talking about it earlier. I think that this one I feel like is more known, maybe not, maybe Army of Darkness, but I like I said, when people talk about Evil Dead, I feel like they're they're meaning Evil Dead 2 versus the first one. I think this one really has the best balance of camp and horror, right? I think it's just a fun movie out of the three. Like the first one is more serious, and the third one is even more campy, and this one just kind of gives you the best of both worlds. Definitely rewatching this one. It's uh it's always in the rotation. It's it's just a it's just an absolutely great film.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:40

I can see myself rewatching this already because I've given it a soft hack, right? So once I finish this whole franchise, I'm sure that I'm gonna want to rewatch it again in the future. And I'm gonna want to do it like how you should from beginning to end. And I think that when once that happens, I'm going to feel differently about this because I already kind of know what to expect. And what the point is, you know, and where this franchise is going, what its intentions are, the camp of it. So I can see I can see this happening for a rewatch for sure. And I'm sure that I would get more of a laugh and I'll buy more into it instead of being so stunned by the difference of the first one to the second.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:17

Yeah, I mean, this is a movie I was excited to rewatch, however many years later, and I was excited while watching it. I was literally watching this thinking, like, I'm I'm so stoked that we get to watch this right now as a group. I'm stoked that other people get to watch this even though I'm not there with them. And I could see myself having that exact same feeling the next time I get I get the time of my life to watch it.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:39

You were so excited that you walked this movie hella early and got your notes done all early. So I think that's a testament of how much you love this shit.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:46

Yeah, I literally did Evil, Evil the The Evil Dead one night, did my notes right after watching it, I believe, and then like the next day watched Evil Dead 2. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:56

Well, look, obviously, you know, I think we're all open to continuing to have more Evil Dead 2 in our lives in one way or another. But for now, let's see how much Max Factor Fiction can hold us over.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:07

Number one, Ted Raimi sweats so much while wearing his Dead Eyed Henrietta costume that the special effects team had to pour out liters of his glistening sweat at the end of each shooting day.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:18

Ugh. That is liters of sweat. I mean, I gotta imagine whatever that suit is made out of or whatever, it probably was hot, but that much sweat pouring out of him? I don't know. That's a lot. I'm gonna say fiction.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:34

Yo, if that amount of sweat is coming out of your body, this man's in the hospital. Or he's well hydrated. Yeah, right. I don't know. That sounds like fiction. Sounds like fiction. I don't know, because suddenly I was scared. Suddenly I was scared.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:49

This one's a fact. What? So can you imagine shooting this film in Waidsboro, North Carolina, where there's a heat wave? Oh no.

unknown 1:07:58

No.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:58

Can you? No. Yeah? It's hot. Okay. And he's wearing a full suit. That's a lot of heavy material covering everything from his face down to his feet. So yeah, this is a fact. You can even spot some of Ted's sweat coming out of Henrietta's ear when she's delivering a flying attack on Annie and turns around to scream at Ash.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:17

Oh, I gotta I gotta look for that one.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:19

Do you have to look for that?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:21

Number two, Bruce Campbell broke his beautiful jaw while shooting the intro scene in which the evil speeds through the house and slams into him. Raimi was manning the camera on a bike and didn't time things correctly.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:33

Holy shit, that a broken jaw? That's intense. I I know that I know that Sam Raimi controlled some of the things like tree branches and things that he purposely hit people with, but I don't know that it I don't know, to be honest, if he broke Bruce Campbell's jaw. I want to say fiction again. So I'm gonna go fiction.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:52

You know, my heart is telling me fiction because not my boy with a broken jaw.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:57

Yeah, he's a strong chin. Come on.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:59

He's a strong chin. So but I'm gonna say fact for the sake of just not choosing fiction again, although I don't know. I'm very conflicted.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:08

Well, this one is a fiction. However, the two of them, Ramey and Campbell, made up that rumor for fun just to see how many people would buy it. Oh, that's great.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:19

Damn it.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:20

And I think, you know, do it for the gag, as Paris would say.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:23

Fair enough.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:23

Number three, Bruce Campbell was trained by a bodybuilder for his second stint as the much beloved Ash.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:29

You know what that kind of body, I'm gonna say fact.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:31

Listen, I feel like I'm just on the fiction train here tonight. I is a bodybuilder? I don't think he had to get that lean, or not even lean, that fucking buff and built for this film. Uh all he had to do was carry a fucking chainsaw and a boomstick, so I'm I'm going fiction.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:48

This one is a fact. A good portion of the junior high school gym in Waysboro, North Carolina, was used as a filming location for a lot of the set, and they converted a classroom into an iron pumping palace for Bruce's sick gains. You can see the effects when Ash's shirt, of course, is torn at the end and Bruce's manly muscles peek through.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:08

Most memorable scene in the whole movie. What? Who said that? Not me.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:12

Number four. We all loved Dead Eye Linda's dancing, except for me. Uh, but did you know that Bruce Campbell worked with a professional choreographer to plan his possessed hand fight?

SPEAKER_04 1:10:22

I believe that fact because I'm pretty sure that there has been like choreography done for Wednesday for the thing. They had to have choreography for that as well. So I'm gonna say fact, maybe off of that.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:35

I don't think that's far-fetched either. I think it's possible. Maybe, you know, the budget was there, so maybe they were able to hire a uh choreographer for this infamous fight scene. So I'll go fact as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:46

Alright, so this one's a fiction as well. Uh he is literally I mean, come on, he's standing there like staring at his own hand, holding it back, trying not to choke himself out, but he improvised it. Nice and Raimi loved it so much that he used the first take.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:00

Oh, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:01

This man is just incredible.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:04

Genius. That's right. He's got skills to pay the bills. And number five, even though we know the best of the trilogy is the next sequel, Army of Darkness, in my opinion. This film was originally subtitled Evil Dead and the Army of Darkness.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:18

Fact. Why not? I mean, there's a lot of darkness in the movie, so maybe.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:22

Hmm. I don't know. I'm gonna, you know, you said fact, I'll go fiction for fun.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:26

Well, it was fun because this was a fact. Nice. So it was Evil Dead 2, Evil Dead, and the Army of Darkness, then Evil Dead 2, the Army of Darkness, but thankfully it was just Evil Dead 2, and Army of Darkness was reserved for the masterpiece to follow. And that has been Fact or Fiction.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:44

Well, there you have it, folks. Evil Dead 2 from 1987 has earned three slashes and one hack. Now we've certainly had a robust discussion here, but it doesn't end here by any means because we want to know what you think.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:56

So we're about to embark on this uh incredible journey that is Evil Dead and its franchise. So make sure that you join the conversation as we review these movies by hanging out with us for free in our Discord. Click the link in our show notes to sign up.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:09

If you've enjoyed listening to this episode, consider becoming one of our patrons. Visit patreon.com slash hacker slash to enjoy more of the show with early access, extended episodes, bonus content, and live shows.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:20

We'll see you next time, folks. And remember, the first passage will allow the demon to manifest itself in the flesh.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:26

Groovy.