263: The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari (1921)

SPEAKER_05 0:05

Oh boy, Dr. Caligari! Greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hacker Slash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. There is something frightful in our midst. If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack.

SPEAKER_00 0:25

A total joke, a waste of time, or a slash. Totally killer, pun intended.

SPEAKER_05 0:31

We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, we're rating these movies with a perspective we've gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your family neighborhood slasher enthusiast. This week I'm joined by the Superfly Space Guy Mac.

SPEAKER_02 0:44

Hi, Dr. Kalagara, your master, awake for a moment from your dark night.

SPEAKER_05 0:49

The classic horror connoisseur Sean.

SPEAKER_01 0:51

You fools, he is plotting our doom. We die at dawn.

SPEAKER_05 0:55

And the paranormal paramour Binks. The town clerk is in a bad mood today. This week we're traveling back to the 1920s to unpack a film that is considered to be one of the first true horror films, and one which has had a lasting impact on both the genre and cinema at large. In the years of German isolation following World War I, two pacifists left disenchanted with authority following their military experience collaborated on a script that would later become known as the quintessential work of German expressionist cinema. More than a century has passed since this film released, and in that time it has become known for its striking visual design with distorted and exaggerated sets that create an unsettling and dreamlike atmosphere. Its bold setwork and eerie aesthetic has even been a source of inspiration for generations of filmmakers, including Tim Burton. What perhaps is even more fascinating about this film, though, is its depiction of the German psyche in the shadow of World War I, a time when extremism, reactionaries, and fear laid the groundwork for what was to come in the country. Their film tells the tale of a mysterious doctor who arrives at a small German town with his sleepwalking companion Cesare. While at the fair, the doctor puts Cesare on display as a sideshow attraction, claiming that he can predict the future. As the night goes on, though, it becomes apparent there's something much darker at play. This week we're talking about The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari. Who's seen this one before?

SPEAKER_01 2:15

Well, I'll go ahead and say it. I mean, I'm the one that recommended this film, so I've definitely seen this one before. I own this film, and I love it for really the unique experience you get when watching the film. It's just really special not only to the horror genre, but to film or cinema as a whole. You know, you you kind of touched on it already, right? It it is one of the first, if not the first, film in German Expressionism or in the German Expressionist movement, right? You're gonna see so many cool things throughout the movie, and it's just been something that I really cherish, and like I I just love watching it because every time I watch it, I get something different out of the film.

SPEAKER_04 2:53

Yeah, I actually never seen this movie before, but I've obviously heard so much about it and know its place in film history. So I was really looking forward to kind of already, you know, tapping in and seeing what it's all about and its influence. Um you know, I'm not very well versed in big time horror classics, so uh, and I'll obviously openly admit that, but I feel like I've just kind of really been open to this new world, especially with you, Sean, uh being here. And so I I feel like I can definitely see how it's influenced so many genres and films, and I've and I love Tim Burton, so even hearing that, I can kind of see those connections too.

SPEAKER_02 3:31

And I'm the uncultured swine who has not seen this movie, and I've actually not really heard of it until until we plan to watch it for the for the podcast.

SPEAKER_05 3:40

Mac, I'm surprised you haven't at least heard of it once or twice. I watched this movie for the first and last time about 10 years ago, and it was actually when I was in film school, and remember we were doing so many assignments that unpack this films like lighting and cinematography, but more so just the representation of of who the characters were and what that meant, especially like within within its historical context. And so, Sean, I'm so excited to hear about your passion for this movie because I think something that was interesting for me was going into this and separating it from like an academic study. And I try to just like let myself have fun because I had a hard time not looking at it through that lens. You know what I mean? Like it was it was putting this movie on, and I was instantly back in 2014 thinking, okay, cool, gotta see what's going on in this movie, gonna study this, gonna study that. And I I wanted to just kind of experience the whimsy of it. Not that there is much whimsy to be had.

SPEAKER_01 4:36

Yeah, you know, when you really spend time breaking down a film like this because of its place in cinema history, right? I can see how it can be hard to just kind of sit back and enjoy the ride and just really immerse yourself in in the art of the s of the like cinematic performance, because there is really so many things going on throughout this film, whether it's the you know, symbolism of the characters, whether it's, you know, the you know, the German expressionist like artistic backdrop and the set design and the peaks and the slanted, tilted like landscape and the shadows painted on the walls and all these different things, right? You know, when you're watching it and you know the history of it and you've gone through that, it's hard to not start analyzing it and picking it apart. Going into this film, like it's been quite a few years for me since I last watched this film as well. Um, but you know, however, knowing some of the history of the movie and the influence that, you know, the German expressionist movement had on this film, I know I'm gonna see a very unsettling set design with some odd shapes and designs. Like I said, the tilted landscape, it really immerses you into a distorted reality. It's truly bizarre. It's also a silent film, so you know, I'm expecting to have to pay attention to detail for this one, or you might just get lost in the sauce.

SPEAKER_02 5:58

There is a there, I think there is a lot of detail, you know. I I did not expect that going into this. I think I just figured, all right, it's gonna be a silent movie. It's gonna be really simple, and it's gonna be, you know, some some title cards uh telling us what's happening or what's being said, and it's gonna be just basically an hour of watching a really quick film, and it's not gonna be much to dive into. Um, I found myself unable to do anything else. You know, can't look at your phone while you're watching this. You have to kind of pay attention. And I was surprised, you know, because when I put it on, I figured, you know what, I'll throw this on, I'll be able to get through it. It's only an hour, and boy, was I wrong.

SPEAKER_04 6:34

Yeah, you know, when thinking of like how I was feeling watching this film, going into it, I expected that I was gonna enjoy it because I've already, you know, crossed that bridge when it comes to the mummy and enjoyed that one. So I kind of had that kind of expectation going into this one that I found myself feeling so curious and so engaged. And it's like you you all are saying you have to, you really don't have any other choice but to be. You know, there's a difference where you're watching a film and you feel like you have to keep your eyes glued to it, and it's almost annoying, right? You're like, oh, I have to. I'm thinking of another film that kind of required me to do that, you know, not gonna name drop, but uh cough, cough, skin and rank. Anyways. Oh my gosh. Um, but you know, uh, no, but for this one, I like full on loved it. I love that I was eyes were glued. I was paying attention, I was um captivated. And I think it is something to do with that expressionistic era that you're seeing. Uh, the the artwork, the set design, the acting, the way that they're acting in terms of expressionism is so captivating. I can't say it enough. And then throughout it as well, I think it was I'm watching this film and I'm seeing so many connections and references that other films later on have made that also had me excited, that had me feeling like, wow, I see this, I can see that. Like again, the Tim Burton thing, of course, like without question. So it was it was really entertaining and fun for me in terms of how I was feeling all the feels throughout the movie.

SPEAKER_05 8:00

Yeah, I mean, looking at the the journey that you go on in this one, I remember learning about this movie when I was actually understanding what expressionism even means. You can define that. I think it's it's one of those things where like I can walk into an art museum with someone and they say this is very mid-century modern. And I'm like, what the fuck does that mean? No clue. In terms of expressionism, you think about like translating the expression of like emotional experience as opposed to just like telling a narrative story from beginning to end, it's all about like external factors and and things that happen in the world, things like that. This movie, once I understood what that context meant, felt so different the first time I watched it. And then this time around, I thought, okay, I've already seen this movie. I feel like, you know, Chris 10 years ago put in almost 10 years ago, put in put in some work to get to the bottom of it. So let's just, you know, fuck it, go along for the ride. I popped on the free version that's available on Tubi. Boy, do I regret that uh because it's such a diminished experience. And I remember thinking, I used to know what these papers said. There's like title cards in the movie, obviously, because it's silent. But then there's other text in the movie where let me just tell you this, listener, if you haven't watched this yet and you plan on it, watch a good quality version of this movie. Don't go watch the one that's on Tubi. But I remember, you know, this time around, aside from being distracted by that element of it, feeling like I could appreciate more the fantastical, like fairy tale like nature of this story.

SPEAKER_01 9:28

It's really interesting. You say it like a fantastical nature, fantasy, right? Like this is really uh one of the first films to really depict a fantasy reality, right? And not just normalcy, right? Like I said, when I watch this film, every time I get something different. Not that the film changes, but I get something else out of it that I didn't get before. And I think back to the very first time that I watched this film, and I was really taken aback by the abstract peaks and the of the buildings and the sharp angles, the strange symbols, the lighting. Everything was slanted a bit, and it just never lets you feel truly comfortable throughout the entire film. Like everything's just a little bit off. Even the the score really carried me through the film so masterfully, right? Like I loved how the score got so dark and serious as the movie started to descend down a dark path. You know, you're talking about different, different ways to watch it, the quality, watching it on Tubi, watching it here, Blu-ray, whatever it is. It's a fun fact. Depending on what version or release you're watching, you might get a different soundtrack altogether. It really wasn't until, I don't know if it was somewhat recently, but it really wasn't until the latest Blu-ray release where you were actually getting it paired with the orchestra that would have played in theaters for the film or you know, something close to it, right? So, like, depending on what version you're watching or what release of this film, you're getting an entirely different soundtrack at times. And so, like, think about how that can change the film for you, or the experience, or the emotions, and and how you actually watch the film. It's just crazy to think about just that alone. I mean, it's just wild.

SPEAKER_03 11:11

I'm shocked.

SPEAKER_02 11:12

I really wish I found a better quality version when I was watching this because I watched it, you know, on some free streaming service, and the video quality was really poor. And finding out later that you can get a 4K or 4K colorized version of it, such a bit like a much better experience. It's so much clearer. Hearing that you can get different like musical effects going on, like the soundtrack could be better in another version. I feel like I need to watch this a few different ways and a few different times so I can actually get the experience you're supposed to get from it. Because I I feel like if you just get the the poorly ripped copy of it, it's it's just so saddening to see what you've missed out on later when you go back and find a good copy of it. I mean, I don't I don't think it detracted from the experience too much. It did affect it, of course, because you can tell I'm watching this like this feels like somebody was projecting this and then somebody else recorded the projection, and that really hurt it. Didn't feel like we did a negative scan or anything like that. But when watching the movie, I mean, I don't have a strong relationship with German expressionism in any way, which is sad because I've never seen Metropolis, and I am the person who should have seen Metropolis. Absolutely. And I still haven't I still haven't watched it and I feel like I would connect with it. I like different stuff, usually from later in the 40s and 50s. I definitely connect with like Italian neo-realism more. I love how I can get like really gritty and really just really real. I love that. I love feeling like these are real people, because in many cases they are real people. But seeing how grand everything feels, even on like a small set, with the the really kind of crazy set design with the slanted buildings and with the the wild shadows that they're able to get. I mean, it's a lot of fun. So I I think I've missed out on not watching some more of this this entire genre.

SPEAKER_04 12:54

And I feel like that's like, if anything, the biggest surprise for me is that this film incorporates so many different incredible visual elements. And sometimes I think when we're reviewing a lot of these movies, we talk so much about story and narrative and plot and characters. And we do obviously get into our favorite visual elements later on in the spoiler zone, but you know, we'll talk about a couple of things here and there. And I feel like that's literally the entire point of this film, like is the visual elements. We're gonna be talking about it so much and everything that it um that it does for this for the story. And so to watch this film in so many different ways and potentially miss out on a key element that drives the plot is is kind of like wow, you know, you are experiencing it for the first time every single different time that you're watching it in a different format. But actually, something that, you know, getting a little more particular in terms of what surprised me about this film was the score. So, Sean, you said that earlier, and I'm like, what? That's nuts. Because to me, it was the score that I was most surprised about. I mean, look, I know that a score in terms of a film is like supposed to tell a story in and of itself without dialogue. It's a point of music in general. But this time around, I was like, man, I really know what they're trying to say with this music. I know like what I'm supposed to be feeling, and I don't feel like it's forced. It's just flowing naturally. It was really saying the dialogue. I thought it was so great. And so to think that I could be listening to something else entirely different, or maybe just the way that it's performed could be different is is awesome. That's really cool.

SPEAKER_01 14:30

Yeah, it's it is it is really cool. Like just thinking about like when this 1920, right? Like what they did with this film was like, I feel like so ahead of its time when you think of like the influence that it had. And I'm not really surprised anymore, but I would be surprised by how well the pace of this movie feels for being a silent film, had I not seen this one before, because some silent films can really feel like it's kind of dragging or it's just it doesn't really captivate you in the right way, and you kind of your eyes glaze over a little bit. Again, that's also a big surprise is how different the film is depending on what version you're watching, right? We talked about the score, but even the pacing, the speed of the film, right? Depending on what version you're watching, this film can be anywhere from 50 minutes to an hour and 20 minutes. No different scenes, nothing. I don't know if it's the film rate or whatever, but it depending on what you're watching, no deleted scenes, no cuts, no editing, nothing. Nothing different about what you're watching, other than the actual speed of the film. The hour and 20 version, definitely, I could see some people feeling like the scenes are really dragging out. I just feel like when you're watching it and you're really just immersing yourself, it's like a it's nighttime, you know, it's late, you put this on, all the lights are off, you just just immerse yourself in this film. The pacing of this film and and just the way that it flows, even the hour 20, is just miraculous.

SPEAKER_04 15:56

Yeah, I can see that.

SPEAKER_02 15:57

So you're saying we're not gonna get a Snyder cut of Dr. Calagar?

SPEAKER_01 16:01

Not the Snyder cut, no. Or maybe that was the Snyder cut for that time.

SPEAKER_02 16:06

The originator. An hour 20? You gotta be kidding me. I'll I'll say something that surprised me and a little bit disappointed me, and and that is I I feel like I had to fill in a lot for myself. So I I felt a bit lost going into it. I thought there was going to be more text on screen than there was. And so figuring out who characters were in any given scene, figuring out what the heck was going on. It's not a chore, it's not that bad, but it it definitely took a little bit of work in the first half of the movie. It got a lot better. I think it was just more streamlined in the second half. But at first I kept being like, who well who's that guy? And who's that guy? And why are they doing that? And then they would have this full-blown conversation on screen, and there'd be no text that followed.

SPEAKER_01 16:48

Yeah. I I mean I could see that for sure because it is it is disappointing in a sense of like how hard it can actually be to follow if you don't pay attention, right? Because to your point, there's not a ton of title cards to kind of guide you through. So there is a lot of there is a lot of play on like the score and and the actual like physical acting that you're seeing on screen and the movements and and even even the set design and the backdrops, like if you look at even we'll talk about it more, but even just some of the shapes they use to really accentuate like what you're supposed to focus on in the frame.

SPEAKER_05 17:23

Yeah, so that's really interesting that you say that, Mike, because I felt like I had a very different experience. And I won't even say that it's because I've seen it before, because I find that like sometimes my mind will compartmentalize and purge pretty quickly. And so while there are a lot of things that I remembered about this movie, I felt like the pacing flowed really nicely, and I felt like it really told its story well, where I had no ambiguity or lack of clarity about what was happening. I think when you get to the ending of this movie, I think that becomes a question mark for a lot of people, right? And that becomes a point where you could go one of two ways, perhaps. But I found that I was captivated by and pleasantly surprised by how effective the performances were. Again, when you think about what does an expressionist performance mean? And it's a little bit dramatic, it's a little bit over the top, but it felt just restrained enough to keep me going along with it and not be overwhelmed by it.

SPEAKER_02 18:18

I I can't wait to talk about the ending later, now that you bring that up, because obviously it's a big one. And so why you know, stick around or whatever. But I I like watching this movie in its entirety and seeing how many other films it has affected in both style and substance, just the plot of the movie. Somebody was like, hey, what if we made that and we changed like two things and then we told people it's a completely different movie, and they've done that how many times so far?

SPEAKER_01 18:42

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:43

So it's obviously very effective. I didn't find it to be a particularly scary film, of course. I mean, it's it's a hundred years old, a hundred plus, you know. Um, but I could see how this would be an originator of a lot of things, you know, a lot of suspense and and the idea of of fear of of one character or maybe multiple characters. And so I think it's it feels so much like the beginning that you're like, man, this just it it there's only up from here. It has to spiral into something bigger.

SPEAKER_05 19:13

Man, okay, you say that, but there are a couple moments where I thought, shit, if I was watching this in 1920, I'd be genuinely terrified because you have a man like Cesare walking around doing some of the things he's doing, it's a little shocking. Not a fan of it. I'd be a little spooked.

SPEAKER_01 19:30

Okay, you you say that, and that's exactly what I was thinking, right? Like this film is a hundred years old. A hundred years, uh a century old. I'm almost certain that this film was frightening for its time. I mean, this along with like Nasferatu, were the first films to really attempt to evoke that unsettling feeling out of its audience. The film utilizes like deep shadows matched by sharp peaks to help evoke that feeling from you. The use of light and the way everything is tilted just leaves you with that feeling of unsettledness. So I gotta give credit where it's due. While not frightening by today's standards, it is a very frightening tale.

SPEAKER_04 20:09

And I can see that even with you know, when thinking of the mummy as well and how intimidating some of those shots are. This is its predecessor and it influenced that. And it's just crazy. We're like literally an originator of so many things. Um, and definitely creepy. There's its essence is eerie. Um, so in the nine in 1921, like I would be definitely terrified. Um but I, you know, we've we've mentioned it so many times, uh, originality-wise, absolutely. I think we can't just sit here and say that it isn't original when it's considered one of the first horror movies of all time, you know, like pioneered uh art house and film noir in America. Like it's done so many things for film. How could this not be original? And with its uh symbolism in and of itself, like there's so many different layers to this film and the way that it's interpreted, right? From politics to mania to like the psyche, it's just ridiculous. So I I think by far this movie is original 120%.

SPEAKER_01 21:17

Oh, absolutely. I gotta also say that it's safe to say that this film is original. It it's not only placed in a time where cinema was really starting to evolve, uh, really the start of the finest era in the genre of horror, in my opinion. It's it's one of the first films to showcase the German Expressionist movement in the form of cinema. This film inspired and influenced so many of it of its successors, it has to get all of the originality points. Just think of how many times just the basic like skeleton of this plot to what Mac said has been redone. Just input this or insert this, sub this, put this, and you have Dracula and you have all these different things, right? And you think of like even just The design, the set design, and some of the shots that you see with the twisted, tilted, like staircase. Like you can see that exact, almost that exact frame in Frankenstein, you know, with the spiral staircase coming down into the lab. Like it's inspired so many films. You can see it in Frankenstein, you can see it in King Kong. You can see it in Murders in the uh Rue Morgue, like Metropolis. You can see it in all of these films. And to what you said, Binks, you can see it in Tim Burton. Like it's it's impacted so many people and so many films a hundred years later. It's mind-blowing. It's gotta be original.

SPEAKER_02 22:39

I think when we when we have a category of originality, this is what we're talking about. This is what we're saying. Is this original? It's like, is it this movie? Or or does it get points for something else? You know, because this is probably a definition of what an original film is. I think here. There's so many ideas that are on display here that are just immediately go, oh yeah, we're gonna every other movie is gonna do that now.

SPEAKER_01 23:03

Yeah, absolutely. And you think like also, I I know Binks, you mentioned like this is considered, you know, possibly the first true horror film, right? And don't get me wrong, you've you've had films in the past that tried to do like Dr. Jekyll, Mr. Hyde, and different things like that, right? But this was the first film to truly show the kind of backbone of what the horror genre of of cinema really is, right? And and I think that's what we mean when we say like the first true horror film from beginning to end.

SPEAKER_02 23:35

It's impressive, I think, because it's not just about can we show you gory or crazy or scary things on screen? It's can we affect your mind? Can we make you think yourself to the point where you're scared?

SPEAKER_05 23:48

Which I think shows up no more perfectly than it does here at the ending of this movie. When you think about the wild ride that you go on from beginning to end, you think about the performances that you get, you think about this elaborate tale that's being told, the culmination of this movie leaves an insane mark. And I remember the first time I watched it thinking, what the fuck just happened here? And I think obviously, as influential as the styling of this movie is, obviously there's so many, there are so many branches that kind of emanate from it, but I think the ending and what it does and what it does to play with your mind or reframe kind of like the entire story, I think that in itself is another one of those things that gets passed on from generation to generation. And I think this has probably the most pure approach to this style of ending that I've seen in a long time, and I think honestly is one of the better ones.

SPEAKER_04 24:41

Which is so interesting because you kind of said it with the reframe, right? It's like it is the technique that they're using in terms of this ending, is that frame story. I think it's funny when you like look into the history of how the writers actually weren't necessarily so happy about the this ending themselves, but I thought it was incredible, and I think it's you know, again, pioneering a type of ending tactic, if we want to call it that, right? Like again, frame story that is used and constantly reused and edited in terms of future films.

SPEAKER_05 25:14

Yeah, for sure. I think there's always this statement, right? It's not about who does it first, it's about who does it best. But no, in this case, the one who does it first also, I think, in many cases did it best. I'm hard pressed to find many that take a similar approach and it feels significantly better than this. I can think of some wholesome stories that have a similar style, right? Like some that I know that we've all seen kind of growing up in our childhood, but I think this is the stronger example of it.

SPEAKER_02 25:44

It gains some strength from the fact that it can achieve that structure without having to use 10,000 flashbacks. And that's where a lot of modern films they they hit a point where you're like, okay, you're gonna you're gonna link this all together, right? The start and the end is somehow going to make sense of the middle, except the only way they can do it is to get a clip from every 10 minutes of the movie that up to that point, which we had already just watched. We don't need you to do that. This one doesn't have to do that, it's already told the story.

SPEAKER_05 26:11

But you're talking about James Wan.

SPEAKER_02 26:12

I'm talking about James Wan a little bit, okay? Like a little bit. He's not the only one. There's there's worse people that do it. There's a lot of psychological thrillers that do it. There's oh yeah, I mean, there's just a ton of movies that are like, hey, I know that we're directly related to the first scene that you watch and we're gonna make sense of the middle. But before we do that, before we do that, let's give you a little summary. Last time on Dragon Ball Z, and it's just too much, and this film doesn't have to do any of that. It just jumps into the ending and it immediately makes sense and at the same time catches you completely off guard.

SPEAKER_01 26:40

You all, I mean, you all said it best. I really loved the ending of this film. I thought it, to your point, Mac, it genuinely surprised me. Um, I I know, well, I we'll get into it later, but I know this ending was not the original intention for the film, but I really couldn't imagine it any other way now, just watching it back however many times. I'm saying like I don't want to spoil anything right now, but this film is fucking a hundred years old. So if you haven't seen it, I don't even know how there is even spoilers for this film, but we'll hold back. That's all I'll say until we get to the second half.

SPEAKER_05 27:11

Meanwhile, two people on this show, half of the audience of this show hasn't seen this movie.

SPEAKER_03 27:16

Sean, is that's a subliminal way of being like, what the fuck have you been doing for 30 years of your life that you haven't seen this movie?

SPEAKER_01 27:22

I'm just saying you can't be mad at a spoiler for a hundred-year-old movie.

SPEAKER_03 27:27

You're right. That's true.

SPEAKER_02 27:28

That's a that's a reasonable thing.

SPEAKER_03 27:30

It's reasonable.

SPEAKER_05 27:31

But I do think that everybody deserves the purity of experiencing this film unspoiled. Sure. Yeah you know what I mean? Because you cannot see this movie for the first time twice. Well, Sean, I know you're chomping at the bit to get to those spoilers, so we'll start making our way there. Before we get to the rating of this film, how would you describe the gore score of this hundred-plus-year-old movie?

SPEAKER_01 27:52

Well, the gore score in seven years ago. This is, I mean, it's very close to the dawn of film as a whole, really. I mean, we're within 30 years or so, right? So that being said, you you have to understand that there was no real gore back then. Therefore, you don't really get any gore in this film. There's some violence for sure, but when you when you think of what the gore score is, it's definitely an NA rating.

SPEAKER_05 28:14

And what about the animal report?

SPEAKER_04 28:15

You know, I'm pretty convinced that there's not even a single animal in this film. Regardless of that, I know that we're safe, but just an extra tidbit of I don't even think an animal featured it gets featured in this film.

SPEAKER_05 28:26

So absolutely no risk then. That's fantastic. Let's go ahead and get into our ratings then. The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari. Was it a hack or a slash?

SPEAKER_01 28:35

So this film holds its place firmly in cinema's history. As I mentioned before, it's one of the first films to really try to unsettle its audience, and I feel that it does so perfectly. Uh, its use of abstract and sharp designs through the lens of German expressionism made for a uniquely bizarre experience that only gets better every time you watch it. Uh, its influence on cinema and specifically the horror genre is undeniable. You can see its influence in tons of films that we mentioned already at Frankenstein, King Kong, all of those movies, even in Tim Burton's work. But everything from the acting to the storytelling and the plot to the cinematography, the use of lighting and the set design was so strangely perfect. This movie is a slash.

SPEAKER_04 29:22

I love it. I love it. Yeah, look, I have to say, this is a movie that after watching it, I didn't even really know where to begin with my thoughts. And usually I would say that that's not a good sign, but this time it is. It is a good sign. I really enjoyed this, you know. Once again, a classic has won me over. And it just, I don't know, it just proves to you that you don't need like crazy dialogue or action scenes, all this over-the-top production and stuff like that, just to tell a good story with meaning and subtext, so much symbolism. I loved the darkness, the sharpness of the set design and the lighting, the acting, and how that was in terms of expressionism, times like 5,000, honestly. And ultimately, you know, it's about a loony doctor and his sleepwalking assassin. It's fantastic, you know. I I loved it. It was so fun. It's an hour or, you know, an hour and 20, apparently, that influenced decades of film. And so there's no other choice for me. It's gonna have to be a slash.

SPEAKER_02 30:21

Well, I I think this movie was really interesting. It was a bit tough to watch in the format that I found. Now that I've seen the quality of like the 4K rip that's available, I I gotta watch this again. Like I gotta see this in its full glory with all the detail because there's so much beautiful detail in this film. There's so much on screen that shows an entire world, not just the world of the movie, but the world of the people who made it at the time that they made it. And you don't even you don't need sound for that. You don't need dialogue for that. You know, we we get some dialogue shown on screen, we get some cards giving us text, but I think there's a feeling given to us that is beyond speech. And it's so effective. It's incredibly effective in this movie. From start to finish, it's a quick watch, it's not very long, and I think it's worth the watch. I think finding a good quality copy is also worth doing as well. Because without color, black and white, the purest form of film and photography, you get such amazing shadows, such amazing lines, just the compositions that we get on screen are absolutely astounding. And I think from a story perspective, it's insane to think how many movies we give credit for being so original and so ingenious in in which they were they actually weren't. They were legit just copies of this film. And I didn't I had no idea because I had not seen it. I didn't know how how like impactful this film was on literally a century of film and I'm sure TV and books and all sorts of stuff. So yeah, this is it's crazy that this hasn't made it into my viewing experience so far. It's absolutely a slash, and I think everyone who likes horror, who likes psychological thrillers, who likes drama, they should go find a good copy of this and watch it and educate themselves, like I had to.

SPEAKER_05 32:14

Let the record show that if Paris were here, Paris would call this movie ancient bullshit. Now that that's off my chest. You all have said so many incredible things about how influential this movie is. And I'm not gonna squander time reiterating that. This movie was a pioneer. What I think, though, makes it more of a slash for me. This movie is the human experience. We think about how war and how these traumatic experiences have shaped not only just, you know, veterans or humans, uh, but but we think about like the context of Tom Savini, right? We all know that Tom Savini served during Vietnam and that forever changed the way he approached effects in film. And we think about what happened in Germany before and during and after World War I. And then we think about this entire country and what was to come in World War II. And this movie is a time capsule of that experience. This movie looks into the psyche of people who were disenchanted with the government that they had believed in, with their economy failing, with this disruption of respect for authority, and then looking at Cesare and thinking what Chesare represents. And we're gonna get into this in the second half, and I'm so excited to discuss it further. But this movie is beautiful 100%. What I think is more beautiful is its depiction of that story. So, with that, the cabinet of Dr. Caligari is a universal slash. Now beware, you can find this movie streaming for free on Tubi. Probably don't watch it there though. There are a few other links. You can buy a 4K restored version on Blu-ray through Amazon. We have links in the show notes. But either way, go check it out and then join us in the second half so we can unpack this movie together. We'll see you in a bit.

SPEAKER_02 34:17

Join Sleepwalkers Anonymous, the support group for synamulists who can't keep their hands to themselves or their knives. Our experienced team of sleepwalking survivors has been through the sleepwalking wanderless that is your life, and they'll teach you how to navigate the dangers of unconscious wandering and how to avoid getting caught by the police. Remember, a good night's sleep should never end with a life sentence. Join Sleepwalkers Anonymous today.

SPEAKER_01 35:05

We have a total of three deaths, two kills, one death, right? Uh so let's just break down those deaths together.

SPEAKER_02 35:12

I think there's uh, you know, two that we should talk about. Because one, does one really count? You know, falling off a cliff. Is that enough? Cesar? Yeah, Chesare, just wee, just yeeting off of a cliff. I think the other two though, at least we have some motive, you know? So the town clerk being killed by Chesare because he was a jerk? Love it. Why not?

SPEAKER_04 35:34

Yeah, that was kind of great. That was definitely great.

SPEAKER_05 35:36

It sets a dangerous precedent. I mean, how would you feel if everybody just started, I don't know, killing our DMV clerks in their sleep? That wouldn't be cool at all, man. I feel bad for that town clerk. You have one bad day at work and some fucking sleepwalkers coming for you. That's not chill.

SPEAKER_01 35:50

It really, I mean, it really set it's not chill, but it really sets like the tone of like how evil Dr. Caligari is, right? Like it, you know, he depicts like him coming up and you know, just trying to inquire about the carnival or whatever the hell is happening, trying to get his little booth set up or whatever, and the town clerk obviously is just kind of brushing him away and he gets pissed off about it. Next thing you know, I mean you can even see it as he like comes off of that like high, absurdly high stool, right? Again, depicting like how like uh society and like government and rule was like so you know high up and looking down on on society and and things like that. But uh, you know, he approaches them, they talk afterwards, and as the town clerk is leaving, you see this like evil look on Dr. Caligari, just like kind of just you know he's up to no good there.

SPEAKER_02 36:45

Well, yeah, because he's like, hey, I'm gonna be a total juror to this guy, and Dr. Caligari like just takes one look and he's like, Well, you're dead, so that's easy. Chesserai's coming over tonight, you don't even know. I'm not gonna tell you, I'm not gonna warn you. But I think it really shows that he's using this this human being as a as a weapon, not the knife. That now, who cares? You could have used a splinter of wood. He's using this human to do his bidding, and that is truly evil.

SPEAKER_05 37:13

You know what? I like the the other bidding though. I really like the bidding of Cesare killing Alan as prophesied from the fair. And obviously, you know, we see less of that and more of just the reactions to it. And what I love about this one in particular is how emotionally that hits in a way that I think it doesn't play super into the emotions that it could have. Uh, but we see this friendly connection between Francis and and Alan, and we know that they're after the same girl, but they're good buds, and no matter what happens, they still want to be homies. But to know that he goes and it becomes this huge mystery, I mean, it really harkens back, right, to this survivor's guilt and this knowledge of like friends today, gone tomorrow. I'm thinking about like four Germans in particular, like throughout World War I, how they were summoned and to to do the bidding of others, and then all of a sudden their young friends, same age that fought beside them, are now gone. And again, that's a tale as old as time, right? Like, that's for that goes for all wars, uh, that goes for any battle. Like, we all know people who have been affected by this, but to see it put so staunchly in this film through that frame is is mind-blowing.

SPEAKER_01 38:27

Yeah, I I gotta say, like, when we see Alan's death, right, we see the kill, and it's through like just the way they shot it. Like, you see the the shadow of the knife and like the kill, you see that really quick glimpse of like the hands sticking up in the air. Like it was such a gruesome scene when you think of 1920, when you think of its time. Like, what a gruesome scene uh uh to watch for its time. And we when you think about really when that came out, it predates the psycho shower kill scene by I don't know, like four decades almost, right? Like it predates the psycho shower kill scene by four fucking decades, and that's crazy. That's crazy to think about, and just how how amazing that shot was.

SPEAKER_04 39:17

And think of how how that shower scene is like uh the blueprint for so many slashers, right? Or whatever. And then it's like, okay, but 40 years before that, like, are you kidding me? I that whole silhouette vibe, I think, speaks so much more in terms of intensity than needing a whole gore and blood everywhere and that all bit, like, which we love and enjoy, don't get me wrong, but in terms of what you were saying, Chris, and the depth of what that kill meant, and when you're really peeling back the layers, especially with this movie having so much to do with politics and and war and whatnot, especially in Germany, like man, what a great way to to evoke that kind of intensity, and just by not really ha seeing it full front and center, it's just through a shadow.

SPEAKER_05 40:03

Two pacifists who had these feelings after World War One made a movie that was released when Alfred Hitchcock was 21 years old, and and he would then go on to help pioneer the slasher subgenre, right? And so many other films. Like, I mean, obviously, Alfred Hitchcock is known for so much more than just psycho and and the roles that that played. But I think even looking at what what are we covering, right? We're thinking about Scream 6 just came out, and look at how that is like dates back to Psycho and the the ripple effects of this movie are just they're so expansive, and it's just mind-blowing the more you think about it.

SPEAKER_01 40:41

Yeah. Could you could you say that this was the early signs of the slasher genre? I mean, like, it's just so crazy. Absolutely. It's awesome to think about, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 40:50

That's why that scream 4 trivia question uh that Ghostface gave Kirby was bullshit. You know the one. That's the team.

SPEAKER_02 40:56

I do have to have some respect though for like shadow usage during the kill. I think you can do it and it can look really cheesy like shadow puppets, but uh here it's it actually builds suspense. It looks really good. I think it's incredibly effective. Even the like the close-up of that shot we get of like the hands stretched out, like, oh, please don't kill me. It's so dramatic and it works so freaking well, which I think it's in contrast to to Chesare's death. I feel like it wasn't dramatic enough. I think we should have seen more, should have done more with it. I think it's it feels kind of crazy that like that's how that whole sequence ends. But I I wish we would have gotten more. I wish we'd have gotten like a little bit, a little bit more of a taste of of that character and his demise.

SPEAKER_05 41:36

But what does it say that we don't? You know what I mean? His death is fitting for what he represents. So many lives extinguished prematurely, there today and gone in an instant, without the fanfare, without the ceremony, without the horror, right? Because what is it? One death is a tragedy, more than that, right? Like when you're part of a mass event, when you're or when you're part of war, then you're just a footnote, a statistic, a number. So I think it almost says more that he didn't get that fanfare.

SPEAKER_04 42:07

You mean so in terms of Cesare, I guess not having like a full-fledged moment of like realize that he's said all that, it it speaks to him just being a pawn.

SPEAKER_05 42:18

Exactly, because he's operating under someone else's control. He's blindly following someone else's authority. Yeah. Which is what like he is the vessel for that in this story.

SPEAKER_04 42:27

I mean, quite literally, yeah. I can I can see that. I feel like the his death only impacted me when we already saw his body, and then we're watching Caligari's reaction to it, you know, not so much when it was happening. And of course, it's because of set design, right? And like, you know, and all of that and and the acting of it, you know that he falls off a cliff, but you don't really write it. It was that whole bit that it was kind of like a little misleading, but I got it, I understood. It just didn't hit me until after. So I I was agree in my head, I'm like, okay, yeah, I agree with Mac. Like, I wish I would have seen a little bit more, but to your point, that is the point. We don't get it because he's just a pawn, like you know, another tool that Caligari uses, I guess, or or the government in a bigger picture uses.

SPEAKER_02 43:13

It's that feeling of your usefulness has ended. Yeah. So poof, you're done.

SPEAKER_05 43:18

Yeah. For as much of a pawn as he as he was, though, I think the look of Cesare was one of my favorite visuals in this movie. I know we're gonna talk so much about the sharp lines in this film. We're gonna talk about the twisted backgrounds. I know that there's so much to appreciate because the movie is stunning, although I do think it benefits from being low resolution in some points. Uh, this thing I think looks a little bit more worse for wear the more you get into 4K. But the simplicity of Cesare, the dark makeup around the eyes, it gives him this look of exhaustion. He's so gaunt. You know what I mean? He's so frail. And there's something that looks so uh beautifully human about him and inhuman it. The same time. And to think about like that I mentioned that exhaustion that looks on his face. Again, you think back to who is Cesare? What does Cesare represent? I think when you frame him as an assassin who's doing all this against his will, it just goes back to this like almost really endearing vulnerability in the way that his character is designed. And I mean, maybe that's weird, maybe it's a stretch, but I found myself so drawn and captivated by his look.

SPEAKER_04 44:29

Yeah. I mean, I think for me, what I gathered from his look and also Caligari's is like they are the result of the the environment that is torment and anxiety and um horror and just madness, right? Like they are the manifestation of that environment. Whereas everybody else, if you notice, like their makeup and their costume is nowhere near as dramatic or intense in terms of their faces, right? Like to them, they're just play like it's just another day. Like they're just so um desensitized to this world. Meanwhile, Caligari and Cesare, they're like a byproduct of everything, of that evil that's kind of manifesting itself in terms of like the government and what it's done, right? In this particular case. I know that there, you know, we talk so much about the the politics of this movie, but I know I I read a couple things and there's lots of theories where the writers technically at first supposedly didn't even intend for this movie to be so political. It was only after the fact that they were like, yeah, this movie's extremely political, or as it was in production. Um, so there's also we could talk about it being obviously the government and you know, all of that, which is very, very clear, but we could also just talk about like just the psyche, schizophrenia, and all of these like mental health and just maddening of the mind uh and what it's doing. So there's two angles to that.

SPEAKER_05 45:59

Yeah, I mean, but what does it mean to even be political? You know what I mean? Like on one hand, I think people hear, okay, I didn't mean for this to be political, and you can think like, oh, it's like very left versus right or like the extremism. It's and people can think that. Sure. But these people were telling their story and they were sharing their perspective. And when it comes down to it, just about anything in the world can be political because somebody's gonna disagree with you. And you find safety numbers, you you uh you you you find people who connect with you, who your story resonates with, and those are the people who may agree with your politics. But I think it's really important to look at even the disparity between not just like government and and people, but even within Caligari and Cesare, right? Like we think about how they were both shaped. And I love that you pointed out the disparity between their appearance and and everybody else in the background. But you even think about like Caligari, yeah, he's an older man, but he's clearly well fed. You know what I mean? Like even the difference, physical differences between the two, because Cesare is the one doing the dirty work. Cesare is the one sleeping in a coffin. And you know, you think about the elders that were sending their young boys off to war. It's just deep, man. I fucking love that shit.

SPEAKER_02 47:14

But it goes pretty deep because I'm I'm thinking of my favorite visual from the movie, which is Dr. Calagara's office. And so the the office, we've got the desk smack dab in the middle, we've got piles of books, but then the scenery around the office is dizzying. There's all sorts of shapes and colors and things just kind of mismatched, and it it feels like a nightmare world. And I think you could just take that as cool, it's expressionism or whatever, right? But I think there's something to it there where this person holds so much power over all of his patients in determining who's crazy, who's not crazy, who's got shell shock, and who doesn't, who can handle it and who couldn't handle it after they got home. And I think, yeah, they probably went into it thinking we're just gonna make this cool film or whatever, and and later on realize there's more meaning to it, but I think it doesn't matter what their intentions were. They had an experience and it affected all of their art afterwards. Whether or not they wanted to, it's going to be shaped by everything that they had been through.

SPEAKER_01 48:11

Yeah. I mean, it's it's hard to say what the intentions were, right? Like I feel like everything was so purposeful throughout this film. Even, you know, when we talk about, you know, even in the office, but when you talk about the the shapes of everything, like there's no square window, right? But you see like certain scenes where the windows are are like elongated and almost pointing like an arrow right down to where you need to focus in the frame to really see what's happening. Like I feel like all of that was so purposeful, like standing whatever whatever courtyard or whatever that was, with the different like shades of like light from the floor just coming to the center where the where the one character was standing. There's just so many things that I feel like were so purposeful throughout the film. It's just so really hard to pick just one favorite visual element in the film because the set design was so unique and so eerie, and the cinematography was on point. The close-ups on Dr. Caligari were brilliantly frightful. Like the lighting was just so perfect, like all of that together made for a visually stunning movie in its own unique and bizarre way. It's just it was just amazing what they were able to do at that time. It it just blows my mind.

SPEAKER_04 49:29

And I figured as much. I mean, like I said earlier, this movie, its main appeal and wow factor is all of these visual elements, too. I think if I were to think of one other thing just to sprinkle it in, because I can't help it. I really did like the use of color. We kind of talked about this. Some of us we watched the free version, and then it was like really just black and white, and then we were like, wait a minute, there's a color version of this. And you have to see it in that way, right? Because the use of the color tinting of the film and how they depicted yellow for daylight, right? Like blue for for night, even that like reddish tint for when they're you're inside Jane's room, yeah, which is again like just that red being and like pinkish hues for, of course, like femininity and just like that that aura of hers. Man, is that not literally how all of these films, like how they adopt that later on, like the youth, especially like that blue tint to depict nighttime when even when you're doing a day shoot, like come on, 1920s, that's incredible.

SPEAKER_01 50:26

Yeah, the early stages of those special effects, even when they're depicting Dr. Caligari like going into a frenzy, like he's going around saying, like, uh, I am Dr. Caligari, Caligari, and that they're sprinkling in like the actual text throughout the scene, right? Like, that's early special effects. Like, that was probably something people hadn't seen at that time. Like, that it's amazing the groundwork that they did.

SPEAKER_04 50:51

Definitely, definitely amazing. And it reminds me a little bit more of like in terms of cinematography, one of my favorite scenes actually is the reveal of our favorite sleepwalker that built up that tension of the coffin opening up. And there was like this moment of going back and forth between Dr. Caligari's face and then Chesare's face. And you just kind of are just waiting to see if his eyes are gonna open. It's that tension of like, okay, just open your eyes already. And when they do, my God, that's the moment that uh was very frightening. And I actually read that in the theaters, a lot of people were kind of like audibly gasping and shocked and scared in that moment. So, you know, it's like we said earlier like, is the movie scary scary? Maybe not to us too much, but it's a little creepy for sure, and it definitely scared people back then.

SPEAKER_05 51:37

Okay, first, I am audibly shocked and gasping that I am not the favorite sleepwalker. I thought I was the favorite sleepwalker. I'm offended, deeply wounded. You'll be hearing from me at a later time. But for sure, like the the fright of this movie, you think about the the suddenness of those eyes that piercing into your soul. Cesare's eyes bear into your soul in a way that it feels so unsettling. And you you can't help but feel like obviously sleepwalking, there's not a lot of consciousness there. Do you still feel like there is something there in his subconscious? Looking at you know, another moment that really creeped the hell out of me, it's when he's stealing Jane away in the middle of the night.

SPEAKER_00 52:18

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_05 52:19

Because him creeping in was a genuinely terrifying sight. Even without much fanfare and gimmick, there wasn't a whole lot to it. He takes her, he wakes her, and she's like fighting him off. I think maybe it's just because like I have some sleep in the night stuff situations, and and it's a little traumatic for me. But to see this in a movie from 1920, yeah, you know, like think about America when when this movie released in America, 1921, thinking about like what was even going on in the American economy when you think about what was going on in terms of like the movement between men and women, this movie was it the scene really was fucking terrifying.

SPEAKER_01 53:00

Yeah, that that scene that you're talking about sneaking in and trying to attempt to kill Jane, but you know, obviously stopping, probably just at the beauty and then wanting to abduct her. But like that one still shot of Cesar grabbing her and they're fighting, but then he there's that one shot where he like grabs her head. She has like this look of fright and terror on her face, and he's sitting there with this oh like such a sinister like like look, grin, whatever you want to call it. Like that still shot, like I can close my eyes and see that shot right now. It's so impactful.

SPEAKER_05 53:36

Oh my gosh. Oh, it's just so fucking chilling. And I think about like, man, to to be kind of like the damsel in distress almost, right? Like we see Jane, and she's really just stirred in the middle of the night, having to fight for her life. And again, like this is happening, and we we see this moment that's so terrifying, and I think maybe more terrifying than you would see a woman placed in another circumstance in other movies of this time, right around the time that women are finally allowed to vote. You know what I mean? Like you can't discriminate against women because they're women in terms of like voting, right? And so to see the the the like the the contrast there is so wild to me. And granted, like women in cinema uh and and and the strength of women had so far to go from 1920, but to see the vulnerability there was just man, it spooked me. It fucking spooked me, and I don't think I can unsee it. Like, I don't know how it washed over me so much 10 years ago, maybe because I just wasn't ready to process some things, but now this shit's gonna be in my dreams.

SPEAKER_04 54:39

You know, and while we're talking about that scene, just super quickly, it makes me think of also how it's this movie obviously has impacted like the noir scene scene and like psychological thrillers as well, because that scene is happening all the while the viewer is thinking Caligari is overlooking Cesare's coffin, and Cesare's in that in that coffin still, like he or that cabinet, obviously. The viewer is like, wait a minute, but you're supposed to be asleep still in this cabinet, but you're about to like take this. Think about how insane that is. Like, we see that all the time, right? It's like a fake out, right? But again, in 1920, that you're trying to perfectly go back and forth between having you think, okay, but he couldn't be doing this, or but he's still kidnapped or kidnapping Jane two places at once? No way, couldn't be a perfect alibi. What? Nuts.

SPEAKER_02 55:32

You know, we haven't talked about Jane, I think, a lot until now. And Jane was in one of my favorite scenes as well. And that is at the end when Francis is in the asylum and everything is being revealed, and they're in that open courtyard, you see all the characters, and you see, oh, there's Chesre. You're like, wait, what's happening right now? Why is he there? He's dead. I don't understand. And then they like, boom, they've revealed it to you what's going on. But her walking through, and he's like, you know, do you will you marry me now? Like, are you gonna be mine forever now, finally? And the old man who's with him is like, yo, I'm out of here. Like, you're off off your rocker or something. But that just that reveal, I think, was so well done because it's a real now. I think we see a lot of, especially after Shutter Island. It's like, oh dude, what if at the end in reality it was all in their head or something, man? Like, whoa, mind my explosion. Yeah, but this is the originator.

SPEAKER_04 56:21

Shutter Island, though, that's exactly what the ending reminded me of because it is that shock, that twist. Is this all like this always in the mind? And again, thinking of how the writers, John Witz, he was like basically so upset that that was the ending, because he in in in their mind, it kind of like just destroyed the whole point of all of this like political symbolism that they were trying to evoke with this film when the irony was supposedly that was never their intention to begin with with the film either. So after I did some history, like you know, kind of researching, I was really fascinated by this movie. I was like, it seems like there's a lot of just inconsistencies and things, but you know what? That's history, and that's you know, I I get it. All that being said, I think it was a fantastic ending. And ultimately, again, thinking of Francis himself, how elaborate and how sad his experience is that he created all of this. It's all in his mind, right? And and you now see at that end just all of these different people and who they really are and what they really are personified at the end of the day. The queen, the Jane being this person that everyone wants to like idolize or love, which would explain why Francis and Alan were seeking out, were seeking her out and like in love with her, right? Or all these other different facets that you now want to re-watch and be like, oh, I can see where his mind took that took us there or thought of them in this way.

SPEAKER_05 57:42

Yeah, it really is just like the bummer version of the Wizard of Oz, right? Or that too. Damn. So it was all a dream, except, man, now everybody's a-okay. I mean, obviously, you look at Caligari as an antagonist in this movie, you know, someone who's dispatching an assassin, and then there's this moment when you get to the end and you realize what's going on, and Caligari is a doctor. He's actually Dr. Caligari. Yeah. He is a keeper of this asylum. You think about doctors being there to help and to heal and to nurture, but then there's this sinister air about him.

SPEAKER_00 58:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 58:20

Because again, you're reminded, wait, what the fuck have we been doing this whole time? When are we? Where are we? And you to to end the film with a note of being able to cure him, to be able to fix someone. And again, we don't know based on the frame story, right? Why Francis is here, why he's in this asylum. Is it truly just like, you know, mental health uh as as has been passed out in his family that they didn't understand? Or was he enduring something traumatic? Um, what does madness look like? How did Francis get where he is? And and to be able to look at someone who's endured so much in their life, and again, this is now I'll seeping a little bit too much into this, but to be able to then have this figure back in authority after a moment of reprieve, a moment of glimpse a glimmer of hope that make, okay, because Calegory's actually a good guy. He just says, I can cure him, but it feels more like I can brainwash him. Or is it I could lobotomize him? You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 59:23

You don't you don't really know. I mean it's it's it's really amazing the impact that it has and how they portray the film as it progresses. Like we talked about, we talked about Dr. Caligari and Cesar, like and the way that their makeup, the way that they are like depicted as like evil, right? They're the only ones with this like weird kind of you know makeup on their face and they look evil and everyone else feels normal, and then it kind of you know transform slowly transforms, and we get into Dr. Caligari coming out and looking completely normal, and that's like, what the hell's going on here, right? And then it leads to the end, and and we go through, you know, Francis like uh becoming you know the in the inmate at the asylum, and you know, Jane and everyone else are are inmates in the asylum as well. And to your point, Chris, like it's like Dr. Caligari saying, I can cure him in that final moment. What is that? It leaves you thinking, you is is Dr. Caligari good? Is he not good? But whatever they I don't know what you call it exactly, but how they close in on those scenes that what is that called?

SPEAKER_04 1:00:29

A vignette, which I think is so interesting because it's like it it's literally they like darken it around the edges slowly but surely.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:36

Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:36

That's what made it scary. That's what made it like, oh crap, he's yeah, that good.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:40

Yeah, that final moment when the vignette is closing in on his face, and it you know, something still doesn't feel quite right.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:48

Well, good as a matter of perspective.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:51

Boom, mic drop.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:52

Vignettes aside, the worst part of this movie is the fact that when we get that glow-up, that transformation from Dr. Caligari, he didn't bring his fucking Mickey Mouse gloves with him because man, that shit was iconic.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:03

The Mickey Mouse gloves.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:05

Yeah, tell me you didn't see them. No, of course I didn't.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:07

Oh, of course, of course, yeah. They were great.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:09

It was white gloves with the black lines. I was like, ha ha! Oh boy, Dr. Caligari. You know, he was a snappy dresser. However, obviously that's a really fucking silly thing, right? This movie is something to behold. It's absolutely beautiful. I think the worst part of it is not the movie itself, but the opportunity or the circumstances in which you may encounter this movie. And it feels like a crime that this movie is in the quality that it's in on Tubi. Granted, Tubi is making shit accessible for a lot of people. I love that. But you should not watch it for the first time on Tubi. Because I think the worst part of this whole experience was the fact that I couldn't read a lot of the text that was on screen that wasn't a title card because of how diminished and degraded that quality was. But again, we have some links in the show notes. You have way better options of how to watch this movie.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:55

And I have to agree because for me, what the worst part was was like, even though I loved the score, the sound quality was just so loud sometimes that I had to like play around with my volume every now and then because I was like, this is really loud, or then it's like very low. And it just it was very inconsistent, which to your point, you know, a while ago, Sean, maybe in a different edition, I could hear that sound quality so much differently. Like obviously would I would assume affect playtime. Like it could be just a different experience all altogether. So um yeah, even though it's a worse part, it really isn't. It's just a worse part for that particular version of this film.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:35

Yeah, I I have to agree with both of you that like our experience watching it is the worst part because of the limitations of technology and like our ability to keep this as a historical object going. And I think the film itself, I I don't have anything to talk about in terms of worst part, but I think we should have seen this sitting in a theater with this being projected in the fullest resolution we can get onto a screen with somebody playing music live. I think in a group setting, that would have been the best way to experience it.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:06

Dang. Yeah, that would be quite the experience.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:09

Episode 600 meetup. Let's go. We gotta we gotta orchestr, we gotta assemble an orchestra. We can do it. Then find a private, a local theater that'll show it for us.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:18

Can we make this happen? Yeah, I mean, it it is true. Like it's hard, it's hard to pick a worse part of the film, and I think we're all aligned in the fact that the worst part is just the fact that you know you have to truly seek out and sift through different versions to find the one that is perfect, right? Like you you can look at the one on Tubi, and it, yeah, it's hard to read certain parts, and if you can't see certain parts, it takes away from the impact of the film, and so like that makes it hard to follow and different things like that. So that really, if you if you're trying to find it, that's probably the worst part. I know we're we all slash this film, we all want to talk about the worst part, but like just think about the best part of this movie, and it just has to be one, how they made, I don't know, one of the first plot twists in cinema, like the the way that they unfolded it. And when you think about for 1920, they started this story with Francis talking to some old guy in the dark, starting to tell him a story. You see Jane walking up, he's introducing her as his fiancee, she looks like kind of disoriented, not all there, just kind of you know, just zombified, kind of walking up, and goes into a story, which in itself is a flashback, right? It's depicting Francis's retelling of the events that led to where they are now. And you go through the story and you're you're getting this weird, distorted reality of like what's happening with Dr. Caligari and all this stuff, and and then when we get to see even the backstory of Dr. Caligari, we get a flashback within a fucking flashback. It's 1920. The depth of this movie is insane. And then the the plot twist and how they slowly unfolded that and and how and how clever it was. As it slowly you start to realize in your mind as you're watching this story unfold, and Francis, you start to realize it's kind of you know stalking Dr. Caligari and trying to catch him in something and chases him into the asylum and starts talking to the the doctors or whatever about a patient by the name of Caligari, and they say, You gotta go talk to the director, and how the horror of him discovering that the director is Dr. Caligari, all of those events slowly leading up to the kind of plot twist of Dr. Caligari then coming out in the courtyard, not deranged, not looking evil, and that whole twist of it just turning around to be Francis the whole time, right? Whether that's true or not, it's up to for debate at the very end. But just the way they told that story and the depth and the flashbacks and the way they told it for 19 fucking twenty just blows my mind.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:51

Couldn't agree enough. That's incredible. And imagine, and then think of all of the movies that have come since then that have tried to do something similar and maybe have fell flat. That with a budget of an insane amount of money. And this movie, again, in 1920, 12,000 some odd dollars is an insane amount of money, obviously. But like think of $12,000 now to make a movie incredible like that. And then all of these other movies that have tried to maybe even do a third of what Cabinet Cal of Dr. Caligari tried to do and are just flat, like you know, a a waste of time.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:27

Well well, regardless of budget, I can't wait to watch this again in its full glory. In whatever version I can find. Now that I've actually seen what quality is available, I do want to watch it the correct way.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:39

Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, now I've really got to see this version with the score, you know, as it was like live. I want to see, you know, again, I'll I'll I'll dabble in the 4K, just see what it's like. Although I do think that, you know, the darkness and like the mis the mystery of what you're actually seeing is important as well. But all these different versions and remasterings of such a classic, yeah, for sure. And again, with an hour watch time, how could you not like come on, guys? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:08

Stop your rewatch of The Office for the 90th time to watch The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari for the first time. You only miss like an episode or two. It's fine. I'm obviously gonna watch this movie again with obviously more frequency than I've previously watched it, but I think for me, the next time I'm gonna watch this, it's going to be on a rainy day, and I'm going to crack into a bundled purchase I made of all the classics, like the Universal Monster classics. But then I'm going to dial it back to like the old school Phantom of the Opera. I'm going to throw in Nosra 2 in the mix, and I'm going to add this to the mix, and I'm just going to have a day of it.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:43

That sounds so perfect. I mean, this is this is definitely one I'll obviously watch again. I own the film. I've watched it before. I'm going to keep watching it. I love introducing this film to people that haven't seen it. I love watching it with them. I like to like have the dialogue afterwards just to get see what they got out of it. But to your point, Chris, like this is the perfect film. I mean, classics in general, they're so ideal because they're not super long. You can you can really find an hour, hour and 20 minutes or whatever it is to sit down and and and really knock one of these out. But like the just the setting, whether it's a rainy day or it's just really late at night and all the lights are off, and you just put this on the screen and you just you just immerse yourself in it and just just enjoy it for what it is. It's just such a great experience. And it, you know, it is something that like it doesn't come up super, super often. Um, but when when I do put it on, I just enjoy it. And like I said, I get I get some new thing every time that I take away from it, and it just, I don't know, something about it is just so special. I really can't wait to watch it again. I've never seen the 4K version. I've seen obviously the black and white, the color uh version, and you know, different qualities there. I haven't seen the 4K version. I know we were talking about how maybe the the the the quality maybe takes away a little bit because it's too clear or whatever, but I'll give it a try. It's worth giving it a try. This is definitely one that I will keep watching forever.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:11

You say forever, and all I'm thinking about are those twins from The Shining, and I'm just thinking about you doubled up wearing the dress from The Shining, saying and ever and ever and ever. Oh man. Oh wow, what a what a traumatic traumatic image that is in my mind.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:24

But oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:26

Well, for now, there you have it, folks. The cabinet of Dr. Caligari has earned a universal slash. And we've certainly had a robust discussion here, went some places I didn't expect, but it doesn't end here by any means.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:37

Yeah, we want to know what you think, especially about all of the visual elements in this film, especially the ending. I want to hear your thoughts. We want to hear your thoughts, so let us know. You can join in on the conversation by hanging out with us for free in our Discord. All you have to do is click the link in our show notes to sign up.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:53

If you've enjoyed listening to this episode, consider becoming one of our patrons. Visit patreon.com slash hackerslash to enjoy more of the show with early access, extended episodes, bonus content, and live shows.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:03

We'll see you next time, folks, and remember spirits surround us on every side.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:08

Cesar knows all secrets. Ask him to look into your future.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:12

That sounds like a bad idea.