273: The Taking of Deborah Logan (2014)

SPEAKER_05 0:11

Greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hack or Slash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. You killed them, didn't you? If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack.

SPEAKER_02 0:26

A total joke? A waste of time.

SPEAKER_05 0:28

Or a slash. Totally killer. Pun intended. We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, we're rating these movies with the perspective we've gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast. This week I'm joined by the classic horror connoisseur Sean.

SPEAKER_02 0:46

That bitch levitated under a fucking counter.

SPEAKER_05 0:48

And the paranormal paramore. Binks. She puked fucking earthworms. The people who've spoken and our patrons have decided we're covering a 2014 found footage film that has more lying beneath its surface. Before we power up our cameras, though, we have some follow-up.

SPEAKER_02 1:03

Let's follow up on a movie. Evil evolves in Evil Dead Rise, folks, a tale of two estranged sisters in a primal battle for survival. Own Evil Dead Rise now on digital. I can't wait to watch this one again from home. I can't wait for it to come out. It was intense. I've been telling everybody I know to watch this movie, and I've been trying to get people to converse with me after they watch this movie. Let's look back to when we covered this movie on its theatrical release night. We clearly loved it and rated it a universal slash, but we wanted to know what your thoughts of the movie were, fellow Deadites. The Spotify poll results are in, and 9.8% of you actually rated this a hack.

SPEAKER_05 1:47

The nerve.

SPEAKER_02 1:48

That's about 9.8% more than I expected.

SPEAKER_05 1:52

Yeah, entirely. That's okay. I mean, I get it, but also I don't get it.

SPEAKER_02 1:56

Yeah. I mean, you know, it's not for everyone, right? But then again, it is for everyone. So I don't know. But 90.2, a slash, still a strong result.

SPEAKER_05 2:06

You love to see it, honestly. Better judgment on you all. And also so exciting that now we can do our listener polls and our engagement polls right from the Spotify app. So if you're listening through Spotify, pause the episode, scroll down a little bit in your app. You'll probably have a poll waiting for you to score this movie.

SPEAKER_02 2:22

Nice, nice. Well, we also have some listener comments that we want to get to. Uh so Lucas says, I just got back from seeing a late night showing, and I don't think a movie's been able to both make my skin crawl and make me laugh as much as I did in this movie. I thought it was a really great mix of the OG camp humor and remake of Gore. I instantly fell in love with the family, and the first thing I said to my friend when it got out was this movie really said, fuck them kids.

SPEAKER_04 2:54

No joke. Yeah, quite passionately. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Incredible, incredible. Well, Ashley said, My two cents, I just think the Evil Dead franchise as a whole isn't for me, old or new. I like them just fine, but I never love them. While this one was a good horror movie, it wasn't great for me. But I recognize that it's a me problem because movies with a supernatural, paranormal, possession element never work for me the way I want them to. That being said, it's a slash.

SPEAKER_05 3:22

I mean, Ashley, you're in for something tonight, I guess. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:26

Hey, it's still it was still a slash, so Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:30

So even though you know you're not into it, still thought it was pretty decent, which is pretty surprising. Typically, Ashley and I are always kind of like on the same vibe in terms of movies we like, but this is a big theme that we don't see eye to eye on. I'm pretty surprised.

SPEAKER_05 3:43

Can we be clear that by the same vibe you mean you both like repo of the genetic opera? And barbarian, bro.

SPEAKER_04 3:48

But yikes. Not the yikes afterwards. Christ.

SPEAKER_02 3:55

Chelsea says, just got out of the movie, and initial thought is that it's the first movie in a long time to elicit an actual feeling of horror and a wee bit of stomach churning from me. I think I'll stick to the older Evil Dead movies, though, as the gore in those are a bit easier to stomach for me. Yeah, I guess. In summation, this movie was, and I mean this in the absolute best way possible, was very hard for me to sit through.

SPEAKER_05 4:24

Wow. Okay, you know what? This is a really interesting one because it's not quite as intense as the gore and the brutality of the 2013 Evil Dead, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_01 4:34

True.

SPEAKER_05 4:35

But also for some reason, the gore and the effects, maybe it's just because of all that shit going in Bruce Campbell's mouth. I find that harder to sit through. It really is like testing my gag reflex any step of the way.

SPEAKER_02 4:47

I think it's because the campiness comes out a lot more with the Bruce Campbell one. So, like, even though it's super gory, right, you get all of that, and there's some nasty stuff that can really trigger whether you have a gag reflex or whatever, it's just the campiness makes you I guess stomach it better.

SPEAKER_05 5:05

Yeah. It's giving dead alive in a gross way, but that's fine.

SPEAKER_04 5:08

Gags. Well, in terms of Britney, she says, Wow, finally saw this last night. One of the scariest movies I've seen in a long time. So, so terrifying, truly haunting. I'm so glad you guys picked up that Ellie looked exactly like Sally closer to the beginning of the film. It called that out in the theater. As a matter of fact, I couldn't stop making quiet comments to myself, whether it was excitement from the many Easter eggs and nods to other films or utter fear from what I was watching. Same, honestly. I was slapping my legs, kicking in the air, leaning all the way forward in my seat. I was everywhere because the tension I felt made me move as a way of coping with the scares.

SPEAKER_05 5:49

Well, I love this description because I feel like I'm there with her right now. Keep going, right? Me too.

SPEAKER_04 5:55

Me too, me too. It's clearly a slash and the best Evil Dead movie, surpassing all the rest. Wow, that's a strong statement. Honestly, I'm there. I'm kind of here for it. Me and Chris are like, but we agree. P.S. I might be in love with Beth, and I doubt that I'm alone. She's giving me all the Clay Duvall vibes. Clea Duval. Nice, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 6:16

Yeah, Ellie also kind of resembles Olivia Wilde just a little bit.

SPEAKER_05 6:20

For sure.

SPEAKER_02 6:20

In fact, when I first saw the trailer, I had to take a second look and be like, wait, is that? No, it's not.

SPEAKER_05 6:26

I'm gonna have to really sit there and ponder that. And I know that we talked about this in the Evil Dead Rise episode, but obviously, like the comparison to her and Sally from A Nightmare Before Christmas. And then as soon as Bing started reading that comment, I just immediately started singing in my head Sally's song. It's a good vibe. Well, clearly the people love this movie, and ooh, all of you watching now, listening now, we've got some more up our sleeves. If you've been waiting to experience the terror from your own living room, well then there's no time like the present, and we want to help make that happen. We've actually got an exciting opportunity for you to win this horrifying masterpiece on digital, and all you have to do is help spread the word, the good word of Hackerslash. Now your support not only helps us grow, but it also helps attract new listeners to our community of horror enthusiasts and serves as social proof that, you know, we've got a good little thing going on here. So for the first time in our show's existence, and I say that very specifically because I've always been not about doing this until like I felt like we were proud and like ready to really share like the quality of the show where it is right now. We're asking for you to leave a rating and review in your podcast app and share your thoughts about our show. Then you're gonna visit hackerslash. That link is also in the episode's description and show notes. And by submitting a screenshot of your review, you're actually gonna be automatically entered for a chance to win Evil Dead Rise on digital, allowing you to experience this cheese grating story in the cozy sanctuary of your own home. Where all the dead eyes are not, hopefully.

SPEAKER_02 8:11

That is awesome. Spectacular.

SPEAKER_05 8:14

Absolutely. So again, check the description, check the link in the show notes, check it out. You want this movie, I promise you. It's that good. 98 point 90.8. Nope. Yeah, it was 90.8% of people also agree.

SPEAKER_02 8:27

Yeah, absolutely. That is really exciting. And listen, we have a new patron, Jake. Welcome. You can take advantage of this too. So we're excited to have you as part of the family. Welcome, thank you. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 8:41

Do it, Jake.

SPEAKER_02 8:42

And that's our follow-up.

SPEAKER_05 8:43

Well, this week we're discussing another type of familial possession film. In 2014, Adam Robotell brought us a found footage horror film that captured the struggle of an elderly woman and the terror that lurked beneath. In an effort to raise awareness and document the reality of a merciless disease, a daring film crew embarked on a project that would test the boundaries of their resolve and understanding. Little did they know, their journey would lead them down a path far more sinister and horrifying than they could have ever imagined. As the cruel progression of aging parents and Alzheimer's tugs at the viewers' heartstrings, we're also confronted with a true terror that lies within the depths of the human experience. Now this film reminds us that the most terrifying monster isn't always a masked villain, but rather the ruthless passage of time and the diseases that accompany it.

SPEAKER_04 9:39

So this movie was nominated by our patron Chelsea. She said this movie takes the found footage movie to a new level. The entire film has multiple levels of horror and anxiety that keep the watcher on edge, second guessing what you see, think. Not to mention the movie has some gnarly imagery that will stick with you long after the film has ended.

SPEAKER_05 9:59

Well, let me tell you, this movie certainly has the potential to stick with us tonight. I know it hit close to home for many of us, so let's dive right in. Who's seen this one before?

SPEAKER_04 10:08

I have never seen this movie before, but I did mention it to a few of my friends, and their immediate response was that movie is very intense. But the thing is, like, at this point, people say that to me, and I'm like, guys, I'm on a horror movie review podcast. Like, is it intense? You know, like I I've entered that level at this point with the amount of horror movies I've watched just in the last couple months. So I didn't take it too seriously, but I did not know a single thing about this movie, never seen it before, went into it very blindly, friends.

SPEAKER_02 10:44

Yeah, that's fair. Intense is a good choice of words for sure. I I remember watching this one a while back. It's been a long time, but it was one of those movies that just kept appearing as I scrolled through trying to find something to watch, and and I do remember this one being genuinely creepy and a really heavy subject.

SPEAKER_05 11:04

Yeah, see, it's really interesting that you go with the description of the word intense and thinking about even just listening to the nominations that we've gotten, even reading over some of the discussion that we've had in the forum. I saw this movie when it first came out, and it did not really faze me in any way whatsoever. I didn't dislike it to be clear, but as we started having all these conversations, I'm like, what am I not remembering about this movie? Because I remember like the key image that I think a lot of us do from the third act of the film, but nothing else really stood out to me. And uh really, I think it's because it was around a time when I was binging exorcism and possession movies. So there were a couple moments that again were burned into my memory, but it never stood out beyond just being within that grouping, right? I think I binged this in the same weekend that I binged a lot of the Aminevo horror movies, The Exorcism of Emily Rose, so many other things. And going into it now and then just revisiting what the subject matter is, I was actually pretty nervous going into this, particularly because there's a lot of stuff going on with my own grandmother right now, and I have not been good at processing it by any stretch of the imagination. So I was expecting for the horror elements to be semi-lackluster, but for the emotional context to really overwhelm this movie for me because of that.

SPEAKER_02 12:27

Yeah, definitely. Uh remember, like this one had been a long time since I'd actually watched it. So revisiting this or going into revisiting this rather, like I'm expecting this one to be creepy because that's what I remember from it. I remember expect like I'm expecting it to build the creepiness from scene to scene, like it's found footage, so I don't exactly remember, but I'm expecting or maybe hoping rather that the found footage of it all really helps to build that intensity. And as I said before, like this is a very heavy subject, and for some, like I would really expect this to feel horrifically close to home in a lot of ways.

SPEAKER_04 13:03

Yeah. And like I mentioned, a lot of my friends had said, you know, hey, this movie's intense. One of them apparently warned me about it pertaining to Alzheimer's, and it honestly must have gone right over my head because I was not expecting it to be about that at all. Like I didn't even read the description of this movie before watching it. Nothing. I guess maybe I saw the cover and thought, okay, typical like older woman maybe being possessed type of thing. There's a few films out there that have covered that, right? So wasn't expecting it to be about Alzheimer's. And even then, once I knew that, I expected it to not get very deep or sentimental with it, since it was like a found footage possession film. I thought we were gonna just dive right into that and have the Alzheimer's component be extremely small in terms of the plot. Just dive right into the creepy behavior. But let me tell you right off the bat, I had high hopes about this not getting the feels out of me, and I was brought back to reality so fast and so strong. The thing about this movie and my process of watching it was so difficult for me. I had to pause it several times. The whole time I was feeling like, you know, I was watching something that was deeply personal. Even the gore, the brutality of it was very startling for me. And to be very honest, friends, the next day I was trying to gather my notes for this movie and it still made me extremely anxious. I was not doing very well. I mean, this was like an extremely uncomfortable film that is going to stay with me for a while and brought out feelings that typically I like. I I want to feel a range of things, right? But this time around, not the stuff I was wanting to come out. This was a deep shadow work type shit.

SPEAKER_05 14:47

Honestly, Binks, I am so sorry that I didn't give you warning about this movie. I mean, granted, I underestimated it from my own memory, but also I thought you had seen this before. For some reason, maybe it was when we're you were pulling movies for the nominations for the month. I was like, Oh, okay, she's seen this. I I am I really am disappointed in myself for not warning you.

SPEAKER_04 15:10

No, and it's fine because my friends warned me about like one of my friends specifically, she said, and I texted her this morning about it. She was like, Hey, how did you do watching the movie? And I was like, Lucy, I not well. I was straight up not having a good time, bro. Not, yeah, not a great time. I paused it like eight times. And even when I was pulling the nominations, I mean, when you think about it, in the nomination, it doesn't mention anything about it. So I just put it in the list, right? Like, I'm just doing my job. Didn't think whatsoever that this was gonna cover that. And I gotta say, like, of course, you're kind of get a little bit curious when you're watching some of these films and you'll read the description. Why it is that I didn't even think to read the description is kind of creepy a little bit for me. I don't know, but it is what it is.

SPEAKER_05 15:58

You know what? I hope that when we get to the other side of this, we can think that maybe this is an important step in the healing process. I don't know. It was for me just a little bit, but let me tell you, I felt real sad watching this movie. So much so that I think I couldn't really even focus a lot on the horror elements. So I I have plenty of things to say about this movie. And let me tell you, I'm a fountain footage fiend. I love a good found footage movie. It's I wouldn't say a guilty pleasure, it's just a straight up pleasure. I don't I'm not apologetic about it in any way, but I think I was so distracted from the other horror components because of just the season that I'm in right now with what's going on with my own grandmother. It was a challenge to get through. But I think what was refreshing was looking back and not realizing how much gold there was scattered throughout the movie in terms of the cast and the performances that we get. I was like, wow, I'm really disappointed in myself for not appreciating this more.

SPEAKER_02 16:59

Yeah. I think it's interesting. So yeah, I I agree with you. I'm I'm a fan of found footage films. I think there's some good ones, there's some bad ones. I think that this one specifically felt like found footage in some moments, and in others it didn't at all to me. You know, I can only imagine what both of you felt watching this movie right now, in the in where you are in your lives, because for me, like this one also hit close to home, but not in the same ways, right? Like I remember being exposed to a lot of these types of things that are happening in this movie as a kid, right? So, like, I I went out to visit my dad for a summer, he was living with his girlfriend, his girlfriend's mom was was in early to mid stages of Alzheimer's, and I remember just like weird things, like just being in the bathroom and then being like attacked in the bathroom because she didn't know or didn't remember who I was and things like that. So for me, right, like as a kid and thinking to those memories, these scenes really hit close to home, but also provided an extra like scary factor for me, if you will, right? I went through like my on my mom's side, my great-grandfather, my great-grandmother, they both died from Alzheimer's, which is scary to think about. But again, I went through all these a long time ago as a kid, and I didn't process it the same as I would now in life, so I cannot even imagine the feelings that the both of you had watching the film now.

SPEAKER_04 18:27

Yeah, I mean, and that makes sense. It's interesting how like time kind of creates a different viewing experience, right? Because I even thought to myself, if I were to watch this movie maybe 10 years from now, right, or 15 years from now, maybe it obviously wouldn't hit as strongly, right? And so that's kind of like you, you know, you're now watching this as an adult, still having had that experience, but you've had time to kind of create this buffer of relate relatability. And I think that's kind of what surprised me so much about this film. It's like, I guess I didn't expect it to be so brutal and how gory it was. And uh, is it gory? I don't know. Like it was just it was intense in some of the things that it did, right? Selective and intentional. Yeah, yeah. And I wasn't expecting it because usually with possession films, it's very like sometimes it's a little bit of bodily horror, a little bit, right? It's like a bodily gore, the vomiting, the whole thing. And I'm like used to that. It's extreme. There were some other things that happened that I was like, holy shit. However, that's the same stuff that someone with Alzheimer's is fully capable of doing to themselves. And that's what really was drawing to me. It was so incredibly relatable. So for myself, Alzheimer's is like very prominent in my family. The sorority that I'm a part of specifically raises funds for Alzheimer's research. So it's a big part of my life. And when you think about it, one in nine people over the age of 65 have Alzheimer's. And so we were joking about it before we, you know, started about like how we were even going to entertain you know our B sides and like our sponsors, all these things, because it's like all three of us have been affected by Alzheimer's. I'm sure, even, you know, if you're listening, you probably know someone that has Alzheimer's. So the likelihood of you watching this film is going to be the unique experience of all of us having watched it, having known someone and suffering and being like, I don't know, sad and relating to this movie in a different way. Because I think horror always tries to bring in the real experiences of life and like the lived experiences of situations that are very difficult. But Alzheimer's was pretty unique to me. So I was like, wow, not expecting it at all.

SPEAKER_05 20:39

And here's the thing though, like, even knowing that that's part of the movie, it's surprising to me how well it balances it without being exploitative and without completely losing it in the later stages of the movie. You really have this work of art that in some ways hooks you in and balances being a spooky movie that can actually just scare people while also having you like emotionally invested in the characters, what's going on, and it's almost as if the horror elements become secondary, but it's still a successful movie in spite of that, and it's just a really tough balance, right? Like sometimes you have that description of a movie, and you're like, oh, this is more of a drama, oh, this is more of a thriller, but this does distinctly feel like a horror movie. I'm really surprised at myself, you know, we think about Deborah Logan and how she comes through in this movie, you know, good old Debbie, a bad bee in her own right. I can't believe the memory of her was lost on me when I watched X and Pearl.

SPEAKER_01 21:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 21:49

The entire time.

SPEAKER_01 21:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:50

Their connection is strong. Is strong. Another one that I thought, I don't know if you guys have seen like the vi the visitors, I think, or is The Visit or something like that. It's another one. The grandparents. Right, the grandparents as well, right? So yeah, but in particular, Pearl and X, that's that's I mean, literally.

SPEAKER_02 22:07

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 22:08

It's rough out on these streets with the elderly. I'm not ready.

SPEAKER_02 22:11

I'm telling you, man, uh elderly people in horror movies adds an extra layer of creepiness. I was surprised that this felt as creepy as it did. I can't really tell if it was the found footage aspect of it all, or if it was really just Jill Larson's performance that made it as frightening as it was because spectacular.

SPEAKER_05 22:31

Come on, Deb.

SPEAKER_02 22:32

So good. I will say I was a little disappointed in the direction that the plot went in the second or the third act of the film. And I'll dive into that later because I don't want to reveal anything right now. But yeah, overall, super, super creepy, great performances. Didn't like where it ended with the plot story and all that, but I was surprised by the acting. I the performances were so solid.

SPEAKER_04 22:56

They were, but you know, a disappointment for me, if anything, was that maybe I was so hooked and entranced by Deborah Logan and Sarah, the main characters, that the acting of the supporting characters was was good, but they were a little bit lost on me. Like at times I was forgetting like what they were up to or what was going on. Um the things that some of the quotes or the things that they said, like I was just so, I don't know, maybe impacted by Deborah Logan specifically that they were a little bit lost on me. So it maybe it could be that the movie was just so intense overall that it's just that's what's gonna happen. And it says a lot about the movie that despite the fact that the supporting characters didn't really stand out so much to me, I still thought the movie was really good, right? So if anything, I would have maybe wanted a bit more of a balance.

SPEAKER_05 23:44

And this is so interesting to me, and maybe it's because of coming from that like filmmaking perspective in that background. I found this to be one of the most tolerable examples of a filmmaking documentary crew in a horror movie. Because sometimes it's rough out in these streets, bro. Diary of the Dead, awful. Like, not a bad movie, it's entertaining, but some of the times the depiction of things, like I'm thinking about like Urban Legend Final Cut. Like you had these examples of people who are just out here doing a job, crafting a narrative story. I actually really liked most of the supporting characters. There's one in particular who couldn't I could do without them. You know, I was happy when this person was no longer a necessity for the rest of the movie, but even then I thought their performances were still strong, they just didn't distract or detract from you know, they didn't pull focus. Ironically, someone's job is literally to pull focus, that is their existence for being on this, and they still didn't pull focus from the rest of the cast. But let me just tell you this you know, when I'm asked what my biggest fear is, right? I get some laughs or people say I'm dramatic or a little intense. Because I say truly, it is the crippling march of time, immortality, and the fact that as the youngest in my family, if all goes as like Mother Nature intends, right, technically I should outlive all those closest to me in my immediate family, that terrifies me to no end. And I think I see about what my mom is going through right now with her mom, and I'm just like, I I I cannot even. I truly cannot. And this movie, I'm just gonna say it, it gives me vindication. There it is, there are enough jump scares that I think would it would spook the average person. And for being a found footage film, I do think it's still watchable enough to preserve the integrity of those scares. But this is a good blend of it's got the emotional scares for those of you who need it, but it's also just got the spooky scares for those of you who don't.

SPEAKER_04 25:44

Without a doubt, in terms of spooky scares, Joe Larson is frightening beyond belief. Like we've got another one, folks. I said this in Evil Dead Rise about Alyssa Sutherland, and I'm gonna say it about this actress and in Deborah Logan. She was scary for sure. And it's like you said earlier, Sean, it's the you know, the the elderly and they they always add this creepiness, which is kind of why I expected this movie to just dive into that. But like you said, Chris, it's the emotional fear, right, of Alzheimer's of that, you know, the inevitable in terms of what that disease can do. But let's get into just like the sheer fact that there are some frightening things in the dark. There are some moments where I was holding on for dear life. I looked away from the screen because I was scared, not because I was just getting emotionally like overwhelmed. No, I there were some moments where I I outright like held on to my own body because I was so scared. To my own body.

SPEAKER_05 26:41

Were you giving Brit watching Evil Dead Rise in the theater?

SPEAKER_04 26:45

Yes, yeah, for sure. All of those things, the the legs in the air, yeah, just about now. I'm starting to think that Brit is your burner account.

SPEAKER_01 26:54

Oh dang.

SPEAKER_04 26:55

Maybe. Look, I'm I'm in the chat typing right now.

SPEAKER_05 26:58

Yeah, this is you talking about Deborah Logan. Got it.

SPEAKER_02 27:02

Oh my gosh. Look, I don't I don't know any different way to say it, but you you both are right. Like this one feels a little bit scary. I'm not gonna lie, it genuinely creeped me out a few times. There's a couple of decent jump scares, but we've been talking about it. What really adds to the fright factor in this film is Deborah Logan herself. We said it again, I've said it, old people can be so creepy. Then when you see old people doing strange shit, unnerving shit, it really is effective, and they played off of this so well. But really, the heavy undertones of this movie really that hits home is Alzheimer's disease as a whole is pretty fucking scary. It really is. It's sad. It's sad, it's scary to think about going through it potentially, because you never know. It's scary and sad to think about others going through it, especially ones that you love. Like it's just it's hard. It's hard, but it is a scary film for a number of different reasons.

SPEAKER_05 28:00

And let me tell you, I think that's exactly what makes this so different from other A horror films, B found footage films, C found footage horror films, all of the above, right? This is a pretty different take because it does so without going over the top in any particular direction. Sure, it's not perfect. This movie is imperfect and it has some things that for sure could have been better, but this isn't your average found footage movie, and it also isn't your run-of-the-mill possession movie.

SPEAKER_04 28:30

No, not at all. I think integrating Alzheimer's into this subgenre was a pretty bold move to make because I I just said it. There's plenty of horror movies like The Visit, like X, you know, where the main fear or villain, I guess to some extent, is an elderly character. Um and when it comes to that, automatically you can feel okay, sense of frailty, sense of, you know, empathy a little bit because you think of your grandparents or you think of yourself and and the inevitable way of life that we're all going to age and and be in those positions. But then you add on a very very prominent disease that affects millions of people. And it's just like you don't see that. I I wasn't expecting it because it's something so sensitive, right? Like because it is so prevalent in our world, especially, you know, to people our age that we have to see now, especially us, you know, not to get too too deep or sad about it, but let's be honest, you know, our parents are getting old, and we're talking about our grandparents, but like our parents are at the threshold, at least mine, are about to enter the threshold where they could be diagnosed or are more likely to be diagnosed with this disease. At least that's the the fear that I live every day. And I'm like, shit, you know, you have the audacity and the and the the nerve, the gull, to make this like the big, the big bad in the in the movie, while also making it about a possession thing, right? Like in this demonic nature. I've just never seen something like that. So originality for sure. I mean, honestly, they got some balls on them to do this, you know, but just gotta say it like that. But but it is original. It is original without a doubt.

SPEAKER_05 30:25

Debbie really said, hold my beer, let me show you a horror movie that can do both. For sure.

SPEAKER_02 30:30

A thousand percent. It's interesting because yes, on one end of the spectrum, it does feel fresh, it does feel original because of the added layer of kind of making you feel or question like, is this possession? Is this disease? We don't know, right? But on the other end, it does really feel like something in the realm of The Exorcist meets paranormal activity, meets the Blair Witch project. So there are a lot of undertones of all of those films or influence from a lot of those films, right? But they did such a good job in allowing you to stay entertained throughout the movie that you don't even get caught up thinking about all of that until you're reflecting afterwards, right? Unless I'm doing this podcast trying to review it, I enjoyed the film. Like I think it was very fresh, like it felt original. If you can take, like, I know we sit here and we talk about original uh films, like are they original, are they not? Like at this point in life, you're gonna make a film, it's gonna have some kind of influence from another film. It's the same with music and art and all these different things, right? So, you know, it's what you do with that influence and how you create it. And I think that this movie did a really good job of taking a lot of influence from a lot of different films and making it its own.

SPEAKER_05 31:46

Yeah, but let me tell you where I didn't do a very good job, and that was the ending. It's interesting for me because it's a little bit of a mixed bag, right? It has some intensity that I think is arguably some of the best parts of the movie, but then there's this element of lore and plot that really killed the momentum for me. It felt like an entirely different movie slapped on to the end, and that sounds harsh. That sounds way worse than it actually is. It's largely good, but it certainly wasn't my favorite part of the movie overall.

SPEAKER_02 32:20

Yeah, that's fair. I I I I personally was not a huge fan of the ending, or at least the direction it went, uh, anyways. I I think that I think that less is more here for sure, and then and that opportunity was lost when they went down the path that they did because the reveal in the third act really felt forced and and it just almost lost me a little bit.

SPEAKER_04 32:40

Interesting. I think for me when I was watching the ending, I felt the most period. The the mo the emotions were heightened. I was so tense. I was holding on to myself, like I said earlier, but like now I was gripping for dear life. I watched it with a friend of mine, and I was like, I thought I was gonna dig my nails into his skin, poor guy, because I was so scared. And then it gets to a point where you finally get to breathe, and it's almost like if you're on a roller coaster, right? Where you're just like you're going on a very deep dive, you're feeling that pit of your stomach where it hurts so much, you're like so scared, and then when you finally hit the ground, you know, you're kind of slow down, it happens so quick, you're already at the at the loading dock or whatever you want to call it, right? Like I that's kind of what it felt like for me in the ending. So I I enjoyed it because I think it was a lot all at once. However, something you said, Chris, in terms of the lore, and now I'm thinking about it a bit more. Yeah, it was um not necessarily the best execution of that. So I'm very interested when we dive into it into the spoiler zone, right? Like diving into that a bit more and hearing more of your thoughts for sure.

SPEAKER_05 33:48

Oh, I certainly can't wait to unpack it, and I want to get closer to those ratings so we can do that. But first, Sean, how would you describe the gore score?

SPEAKER_02 33:55

Yeah, so I mean, we see, we do see a few scenes throughout the movie that are pretty gruesome. And, you know, to your point, Binks, right? You felt like, was this gory? Was it not gory? And Chris, you're saying that it was it was intentional when it was gory. And I think those are two really great sentiments, right? I think that, yes, there was intentional moments that were meant to be gory to give you the shock factor, but overall nothing that would get this film outside of like a low to medium low gore score.

SPEAKER_05 34:24

There you go with that medium rare again.

SPEAKER_02 34:26

You know, I like a good medium rare.

SPEAKER_05 34:28

And what about the animal report?

SPEAKER_04 34:30

So, in terms of my typical animal report, you know, it it we are safe. However, I just want to be specific and give a little trigger warning, though, in this particular animal report, snakes are definitely not safe in this film.

SPEAKER_05 34:45

So if you're a Slytherin, beware.

SPEAKER_01 34:47

Yikes. Oh no.

SPEAKER_05 34:49

Let's go ahead and get into our ratings then. The taking of Deborah Logan from 2014 as nominated and selected by our patrons. Was it a hack or a slash?

SPEAKER_04 34:57

So let's get into it. This movie was a tough as hell watch for me. Okay, and that it took me so by surprise because I typically enjoy found footage films. There are a few out there that, you know, definitely have scared me before, but for the most part, they're just fun watches and I don't think much of it, right? And as blind as I went into this, I was not expecting to project so much of my own life experience onto this film in particular. And despite its supernatural and possession subgenre, I need everyone to listen to me very clearly. Do not underestimate how under the skin and real this movie will make you feel. Especially if you are close to your grandparents or the elderly in general, and even more so if you know someone with Alzheimer's. I'm gonna say that now, and I can't reiterate it enough, okay? However, even though the movie was difficult and unsettling in a unique way for me, but clearly not so unique, I guess, from from what we've shared so far, it can't be overlooked how fun and successful it was in evoking a rise out of me, right? And it and how successful it was in telling this story in particular, using Alzheimer's in horror in a very intentional, very real way, nothing of mockery whatsoever, in my opinion. Now, there are some disappointments, and I shared one, you know, it's it's it's bound to happen, but uh this movie is one that will get you talking at the end of the day for a good while afterwards. And so for that, I am giving it a slash.

SPEAKER_02 36:32

Nice, nice. Yeah, I mean, look, I like paranormal or supernatural films, possession movies. I like found footage films. I'm a big fan of the Blair Witch project, which I know is for the most part an unpopular statement, but I do. And I I think that this film took pieces from paranormal activity from Blair Witch and developed its own pretty entertaining film. It really created some genuinely creepy moments, and I gotta tell you, watching this in the dark at midnight alone, it was one of those movies that made me want to keep the lights on afterwards. And for that, this one is a slash.

SPEAKER_05 37:09

I think you both have said and made this movie's case very eloquently. When I think about what it takes to be a slash for me, I either need to have a real fun time or I need to have a real bad time in terms of feeling things, right? Or like the intensity of that. And thankfully, this movie made me feel a lot, and not in a great way, but in a way that I needed to feel, in a way that was very cathartic. And I I was joking with Binks. I was like, bro, we got played by the patrons this week, but I think the patrons knew secretly what I needed to have a little bit of a good cry session because this movie made me feel things, and it reminded me of the experience that I had that really unexpected, that really whoa, what is this that I've had tucked away in this box in my mind, not acknowledging, not feeling, not processing for a little while, like a little hoarder of feelings. And I I think I had that tucked away when I was watching his house, and his house was another one that really hit me hard and brought back and unearthed so many memories that I didn't realize I had, except this is helping me more so confront the reality that I'm currently in. And you know what? Good on you, Chris Rojas from 2014. I'm so happy that you did not have the burden of having to acknowledge what this movie's actually about. But Chris Rojas of 2023 certainly does. And I think for a movie to be able to meet you in that moment is pretty special. For that, it's a slash. Now, with that, the taking of Deborah Logan from 2014 is a universal slash. Don't know that I expected that, but you can find this movie streaming for free online, so check the link in our show notes to find where you can find it right now. Then check it out, grab a box of tissues if you need, and join us in the second half so we can unpack our trauma together. We'll see you in a bit.

SPEAKER_02 39:04

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SPEAKER_05 40:46

Welcome back, folks. You are now entering the spoiler zone for the taking of Deborah Logan, which has earned a universal slash. We have a lot to unpack here, but before we get into the specifics of our ratings, let's go through the kills.

SPEAKER_02 40:58

Yeah, well, let's just start off by saying I'm pretty sure we only have like two kills in this one. We have Henry Dehardines, which technically happens off-screen, and we see his remains. And then we have Sheriff Linda Tweed, who was shot to death by Deborah Logan. So we do know that Henry had also killed some girls. Like what was it, like three or four?

SPEAKER_05 41:21

Four because he wanted Sarah to be his fief.

SPEAKER_02 41:24

That's right, that's right. So for the sake of kill count though, we're going with two because that's what we see in the movie.

SPEAKER_05 41:31

Can we just say that the sheriff deserved a little bit better? Normally you won't find me caring so much about a sheriff in a horror movie. Usually they're all trash. I have a headcanon where her and Sarah used to be lovers, and they just were about to rediscover each other again, you know. That was energy.

SPEAKER_04 41:49

That was a lot of energy that was being exuded in that film. Interesting. That was pining. Pi that's pining for sure. Okay. I mean, I mean, it felt like they were fucking for sure. So that's why I was like, honestly, it was a lot of that. It was a lot of that.

SPEAKER_02 42:04

Oh wow. Well, there you have it. We we don't have a lot to talk about in kills, but we definitely have a lot to talk about in some maybe undertones of romance that we didn't get to actually see on camera, but it's all in the subtext. It's on the subtext, yes. But what we can dive into, since we don't have a lot of kills to unpack, is the creepy moments throughout the film as we dive into favorite visuals and favorite scenes.

SPEAKER_05 42:27

Okay. Listen, I just gotta say here, right now, before I even get into my favorite visual, there's a moment where little old Debbie is at this quiz, this little test, this little cognitive test, where all she has to do is put a block a certain way. She's getting anxious, she's getting very distressed. She's like, There, I tried, I did it. But then all of a sudden she's ripping flesh from her forearm, and I was like, no.

SPEAKER_04 42:56

That was the moment that I full on flinched and looked away so fast. And I mean, think about it, it's pretty shocking because we've seen some gory shit, you know? But that was just not okay. That full-on had me like shift my whole body in the couch so that I was facing the wall. I didn't even look at the TV.

SPEAKER_05 43:16

But you know, like I I can't help but feel like she's probably on blood thinners. There's no way that bleeding's good for her. You pull that flesh off, you're getting stitches.

SPEAKER_02 43:24

Oh, for sure. Yeah, well, first off, stitches is one thing because really you're pulling that flesh off. You need skin graphs for sure. There's no stitches that's making that better. But really, favorite visuals in this film to me, hands down, is just how creepy Deborah Logan looked throughout the film. And it's not like we had a lot of effects really on her throughout the film. It's really just what she was able to do with the looks that she gave, and whether it was the camera angles and the lighting that they used throughout the film, but genuinely just watching some of the scenes or shots. Of Deborah Logan just looking back at the camera fucking creep me out. And that was gotta be my favorite visuals through the film.

SPEAKER_05 44:08

You know how when you're a kid, sometimes it's like if your parent is more disappointed in you than mad, that feels worse. The looks that Debbie was given. Ooh, there's a point where Mia is cleaning her nails, and she just looks up at her and her eyebrows arched in such a way, and I thought, man, I would never want to piss this woman off. Ever.

SPEAKER_01 44:33

Right? Oh no. Terrible.

SPEAKER_04 44:36

That look was haunting as hell. That was the moment where I was like, oh fuck that. You better run, girl. Stop cleaning those nails.

SPEAKER_05 44:44

No, truly. And speaking of running, actually, I found the mobility of Deborah Logan, the zooming of Deborah Logan to be some of my favorite visuals. Particularly, there's a moment where after they're bonding on the porch with a drink, there's a moment where we get a quick glimpse of Debbie just scurrying in the background. Why do I not call her Deborah? I don't know. We're not that familiar. But she was scurrying in the background and it gave Pearl. It gave Pearl from X specifically. And I just thought, we got a van in this movie too. If I didn't already knew what happened, how great would it have been to have that bloodbath that we got in X?

SPEAKER_01 45:19

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_05 45:20

And the like, you know, basking in it. Again, I say it's a shame that I wasn't more conscious of this movie when we watched it. But I think the reason why that scurrying worked so much for me was because they have how they treated their found footage. There was such a great mix here of the stability of their camera work because they're actually crafting a narrative story, they're crafting a documentary, and there was enough diversity in the type of shots they were using and security camera footage for it to be cohesive. But the way that they handled that and then also played with the depth in the house with that first-person perspective from the found footage cameras, absolutely wild. Loved it. It was very good.

SPEAKER_04 46:04

I think especially in found footage films, the camera work is sometimes so sloppy and a little too much. So I will agree they they did a great job there. For me, it was a particular shot choice, and the way that they delivered this, in my opinion, scene, Chris. You said it was a shot, but I say it's a scene. So in terms of the my favorite visual element, there's this particular scene that Deborah is, of course, sitting at the piano and she's just staring into the camera.

SPEAKER_02 46:36

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 46:37

And it slowly but surely gradually fades to black. That vignette's just circling around her face. But the crazier part, Deborah's face briefly changes to that entity, and you can see how it's just basically taking control of her mind and her body, but as it's closing in on her face, that choice in terms of visual element is insane. But more importantly, that scene was so so daunting to me. Like so insane.

SPEAKER_02 47:06

That piano scene was intense. Like that was one of the moments that genuinely creeped me out. I mean, I'm just telling you, like any of those moments where we're seeing Deborah doing whatever the fuck she's doing, looking at you, at the camera, whether it's the where whether it's the piano, looking through the mirror, whatever, it's just not it's just not okay. It's not okay.

SPEAKER_05 47:29

Yeah, actually, you know, my favorite scene comes in another moment where Deborah looks at the camera, but it's before anything really goes wrong. It's when they first get to the house, Debbie's having second thoughts, she's not feeling good about the situation, and we see a really guarded intimate moment between her and Sarah where she's comforting her. And Sarah's like, hey, we need the money, she's being practical, Deborah, at this point, right? She she knows what she's going through, but that's also so much for you to already reconcile in your mind, and it's okay to have that discomfort or those second thoughts. But what I love about this scene is the dynamic that we get between Sarah and Deborah, because when you go back and realize this is a really special moment because she's hugging her, and she, Deborah, is telling Sarah that everything is gonna be alright, and that's one of the last moments we see her in a position like that, and it's just wild to think about because we have then jump in time, and the film crew is coming back in the future, and Deborah has already regressed, and from there it's just stubborn. But that was one of the last moments of love that also wasn't chaos because there's also a moment, right, where Sarah or Deborah is panicking in the bed, and then Sarah is hugging her, and Deborah is like hyperventilating and screaming, and that was one of the last moments of just like being mother and daughter in that dynamic that Sarah had grown up with her whole life. Sorry to bum you out.

SPEAKER_02 49:04

No, I think one of one of the most effective scenes for me was the scene where Luis, right, he's on the ladder installing the camera, and Deborah's walking around the hallway, and she's going from room to room, standing behind the ladder, staring at him, and then like goes and I guess slams one of the doors behind her. I for sure thought the dude was falling off the ladder and going down the stairs. Like, I was ready for that dude to die.

SPEAKER_05 49:31

You know, that's so weird. Because I also have the same feeling when I first watched the movie. However, it's one of those where of course she's upset. Man, could you imagine? Like, A, you're losing your own agency. You find that your mind has suddenly left the premises, so to speak, but then to have strangers in your home and then to have strangers putting cameras all over your home, yeah, that's gotta feel so invasive. Like, I can I can completely understand why she was the way she was in that moment.

SPEAKER_02 50:00

Let's unpack that a little bit because when you think about, and I think we mentioned this way earlier tonight, and when we think about like, did this film feel like it was exploiting Alzheimer's? No. But the feeling that I got watching this film was that they were exploiting this poor old lady with Alzheimer's. So I didn't get the feeling like somebody like this would make somebody feel like this was like just just not cool to to make. Like it's not a it's I don't feel like this is a movie that shouldn't have been made, but I do feel like some of the feelings it evokes out of you is like, man, why are they doing this to this old lady? Like, what's the fucking purpose of this documentary that they're trying to make? Because it doesn't even like feel like they're going anywhere with this, it just feels like they're recording a bunch of crazy shit.

SPEAKER_04 50:49

Right. I I agree because it's that the movie itself isn't necessarily exploitative, but the purpose and the crew themselves don't necessarily approach her with the absolute empathy that they need that I think Sarah is trying to like explain or advocate for, because as far as the other, you know, crew members, they're kind of like she's crazy, you know, like like it's like super weird, or like, you know, like instantly go into creepy mode when some of the things that she does at the very beginning that okay, maybe are creepy, but ultimately are also just a woman who has Alzheimer's and is very paranoid and scared. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 51:32

Yeah. So here's the thing about this. I didn't mind at all the dynamics that we get from Mia, for example. And I thought that was really interesting because obviously this is Mia's uh thesis project for I guess for her PhD or this is necessary. She says to Deborah that it's more than a grade because her grandfather has it, and then obviously we learned very quickly after that that was a lie. But I didn't get the vibe of just I want to persevere and get this grade and get it done. I didn't get that from her. I got she's ambitious, but she also wants to genuinely tell the story, and she also wants to educate about the disease. Whereas Gavin, Gavin was a total prick. Yeah, couldn't fucking stand him. I was happy when he was gone. Luis seemed like the like, I wouldn't say the passive bystander, but the one who just like was there, wasn't gonna make a huge deal about it. But Mia being hands-on, Mia trying to console Deborah, Mia trying to clean up Deborah and be able to assist with that, and even though she did keep the the project pushing along, I didn't feel like with Mia's intentions that she was exploiting her, especially when there's an exchange of like grant money and etc.

SPEAKER_02 52:52

Oh yeah. Well what so but then Sarah does mention multiple times, at least a couple times, that she's doing this because they need the money.

SPEAKER_05 53:00

Right.

SPEAKER_02 53:01

So that's kind of exploiting.

SPEAKER_05 53:03

Right. Yeah, I mean, with a certain power dynamic, right?

SPEAKER_02 53:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 53:07

But I think for at least for Sarah, she needed the money again for Deborah. Sure. Because Deborah was suffering financially and was probably too proud to do other stuff. But yeah, you know, then you got Harris. Get you a ride or die like Harris who's willing to sell his tractors or a suburban to you know, to so they don't have to continue making that documentary.

SPEAKER_01 53:27

Definitely.

SPEAKER_04 53:28

Wait, but can we talk about Harris really quick? Because although he was great, this is one of the things that I that I was talking about earlier in terms of disappointments. Who is Harris? Like, you know what I mean? Like, I know who Harris is, and I right, but I say that in the way that he was supposed to be so important, and when everything goes down with him, you're supposed to kind of feel sad and just like, I don't know what you're supposed to feel. But I was at the point at at that point, I was like, oh no, now she's we're a full throttle. Like, forget everybody else, forget what happens to everybody else. I don't really care. Uh my eyes are locked in on Deborah Logan, and I need to know where she's at at all times. And whoever you are, Harris, and whatever happened to you, it feels so bad, so sad. You guys were besties. I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 54:10

I just Okay, for me, Harris was Frank from Halloween Kills, laid up in the hospital bed next to Lori, and he was just there to move the plot along in some ways. Harris served as the vessel. Like, obviously, he was a conspirator, right? He had this secret with Deborah the entire time.

SPEAKER_03 54:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 54:28

He knew what the deal was, but also probably in some kind of level of fondness, right? Cared so much for Deborah and also cared for Sarah's safety, just became part of this family and always wanted to be there and help take care of the situation, and he was just there to reveal the secret.

SPEAKER_02 54:49

Sure, sure. But like they do all of this effort throughout the film to build this character of Harris, right? They they show that he's like an an ally to Deborah, like he's a friend, a neighbor, a conspirator, whatever, and then it just fizzles out. Like we get the reveal, and then it just fizzles out, and then like he becomes unimportant, basically.

SPEAKER_05 55:14

I mean, let the women shine.

SPEAKER_02 55:16

I'm not opposed to that at all. I'm just saying they do all this work and then they don't follow through with it. It just like that's what that's what I'm saying with the ending. Like they they do all of this work and then they go in this direction and it just fizzles out.

SPEAKER_05 55:30

Yeah, because then there's never really the accountability or acknowledgement of what happened with Henri Dehardin, right?

SPEAKER_01 55:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 55:39

There's none of that. Like at no point does it come out from what I understand. Damn, Deborah really murdered this man and buried his remains in the backyard. Because again, the sheriff was killed, right? And who else are gonna find out about this? They have enough blood on their hands in the present day. If there was that element that was addressed, I could understand that, right? Some accountability on both ends. Truly, Harris was just there to give you that last puzzle piece that fell under the coffee table that no one was gonna fucking find because no one wanted to get on their hands and knees and find it. That's it. And I was okay with that. Okay. I wasn't necessarily down with his. I'm just gonna shoot up a van and just shoot into the house, you know. That was a little bit weird. But get again, I say, get you a ride or die like Harris. That's a real friend.

SPEAKER_04 56:27

I can see how that's the role that Harris fits into. However, I feel like all of the supporting characters really that is their purpose, is just to do the small, minute things that are necessary. Like one of them needs to be the one that is like finally says, okay, this is fucking crazy. I'm frickin' leaving, bye all, while simultaneously also being the asshole of the movie. Like they fit the tropes so like blatantly and yet were still kind of I I don't want to say forgettable because they did it really well. I think the acting was was good. I just like forgettable in the sense that they were so massively outshined that I just they fell by the wayside. And I think like when I think of Renfield, for example, this is kind of how I felt about Renfield, where obviously Nick Cage is like the shining star, and everybody else like is kind of like in the shadows underneath him. That didn't well, quite literally, and figure out.

SPEAKER_05 57:30

What were you in the shadows?

SPEAKER_04 57:31

Oh also that look at that. No, but I I think that in that movie, right? I talked about how that's what kind of killed it for me a little bit. In this one, didn't feel that way. So it's interesting how the characters supported I and this is silly, right? But they supported in just the way that they needed to, even though it was just filler. It almost fell like just filler.

SPEAKER_05 57:53

The ensemble was ensembling. Ensembles ensembling. You know what? Maybe it's that. Maybe it's that. Let me tell you how happy I was, though, to see that the lesbian stereotype was alive and well. Because the second they pull up to that house and we see Sarah in this flannel shirt tucked into those blue denim jeans, I said, That's my girl.

SPEAKER_03 58:12

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_05 58:12

And then, hold on, it's confirmed before it's even confirmed when they go into Sarah's childhood bedroom, and she was a terrific ball player. There's a softball glove with the ball still in it, and I was like, again, got him, gal. There it is.

SPEAKER_01 58:29

Got him. Got him. Got him.

SPEAKER_05 58:31

Yep. Had you had you pet from a mile away. And then she reveals that she was in the shed, you know, look kissing up on Annie, and uh got sent away from boarding school, which is very sad. But even then, right, like the dynamic between the two of them, and to know how much pain and heartache Sarah was going through in her life with Deborah, but then Deborah being a single mom and doing everything she did to provide for Sarah, knowing that in a way she still is not very cool with it, right? Like it's it's giving tolerance, it's giving, mmm, I guess I know, but the fact that she still refers to her as her lady friend shows you all you need to know about this, right? And Deborah seems like a fine enough, nice enough person, but it looks like Sarah has the understanding of who Deborah is and is not gonna try to change her. She is gonna just move away and live her own life, but come back to take care of it, and it looks like they're both at peace with that relationship, which I can appreciate.

SPEAKER_02 59:35

Yeah. It's when you think of all the other characters, because I I agree. I think between Deborah and Sarah, that's the that's the performance of the whole film for me. The supporting, and I agree, Binks, I think the the supporting cast and the rest of the cast, rather, they did just enough to be successful, and it's not that they gave bad performances. I think to what you were speaking to, Binks, I think that like they just weren't they weren't prevalent on camera enough because it's a found footage film, so they aren't there, they're behind the camera, and that's the whole point, right? So you hear some dialogue and you do some that kind of stuff, and I think from that aspect and what they were given and what they had to work with, I think they did a great job in what the role they in in and just playing the role that they had to play, right? Sarah, for me, man, I gotta say, like the performance that she gave like allowed me to feel a great deal of empathy for what she was going through and what she had to deal with throughout the film. So like there was a lot of ups and downs. I think she just gave us a lot there, so I thought it was really good. And Deborah for me, like, I don't know, like anyone that can play that role that can that can go from portraying like I'm here to I'm not here, and then going into like aggressiveness slash maybe possessed is you know, hats off to you.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:06

And let me tell you, it's the power of being on a very, very prevalent soap opera, All My Children. Because you have to have range, you gotta know. At any point in time, one day you're one thing, the next day you're dead, the next day you're revived, the next day you're you've got an evil twin. Right. You did we both say evil twin at the same time? Of course we did. So there you go. She you've gotta have range, and she came with it, guns blazing. So I give her that. Now, I want to take it back super fast to Sarah though, because Chris, I can't believe that you have not referenced this. And if I'm about to enlighten you, that'll be honestly quite hilarious. I looked up, obviously, everyone's favorite pastime. You see people in a movie, you're like, gotta look up their IMDB. I need to know every single movie that they've ever been in. So when I saw Sarah, who's played by Ann Ramsey, I looked to my friend and I said, Where do we know her from? You know, and so we we looked on IMDB and he goes, Oh, you know, she's on she was on Dexter, she was on House one episode, and then of course, says the L word. And in my mind, I was like, Well, can't wait for Chris to bring that up. And you haven't yet. Why do I need to? You're a good ally. I am I thanks. Anyways, that being said, I just wanted to bring it up because we're talking about range, Deborah Logan, you know, Joe Larson, range because of a soap opera, but then we also have Anne Ramsey. I mean, the L-word, from when I from when my cousin would make me watch like the two episodes, two or three episodes every now and then, it was like the lesbian soap opera. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it definitely gives that energy. So I was like, range without you know, on both sides. It's fantastic.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:56

Yeah. Some might say it's the spectrum. You're welcome. Listen, I know that we've talked about how amazing Deborah is, I get it. Allow me to just bring this in again. The deterioration of Deborah Logan is so hard to swallow. And to see her go from this strong, caring mother to slowly withering away, losing a grasp on what's happening around her, it's painful.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:21

But let me tell you, for as ensemble the ensemble was that you talk about with a supporting cast, my favorite line in the movie comes to us from Mia, and it's when she compares Deborah's mind to the switchboard she operated. That shit was deep. That shit was powerful.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:38

Uh yeah. You know, it's you know, reminding the the person with Alzheimer's of things is is one that was very triggering to me for sure. Because that's like the I would say as a loved one of someone who has Alzheimer's, that's the struggle that you kind of have to go through constantly. But internally you also battle whether you should even remind them or not, is the thing. At least that's maybe that's personal to me. Like, you know what I mean? Because what happens after that is one of two things. Either they play it off, like, oh, interesting, and that's pretty rare, or they realize that they've forgotten something that is clearly so obvious and important to them, and then they panic, or they, you know what I mean? Like it spirals into that realm, which you can kind of see that a little bit with with Deborah. She was a little surprised or kind of confused, and then realizing, well, yeah, this is that was the Alzheimer's, you know? Yeah. Like if it's another person, it's another entity, clearly, like she's being possessed by Alzheimer's, but also by this, by this guy, right? So it that's the Alzheimer's that was that took hold of her in that moment where she forgot something that was so important to her.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:50

Yeah, and this is really the thing that was kind of going through my mind when when that moment was happening, right? And it was when they're specifically talking about Germany, and Debra's still confidently saying, No, I've never been, it's always been a regret of mine. And then Sarah pushes and pushes and pushes. No, mom, you remember, you remember. Granted, this isn't that long, like this is still on the house tour. This is still a beginning of the movie. It hasn't been that long since they even first met. And to see how quickly she's degrading is really, really hard to swallow, right? It's really painful. But you have these moments where you have to wonder how much more harm is being caused in that moment. You know what I mean? I think that's like that. I know it being too personal debate of do I say it or do I not? And I think when you when you look at how far Deborah gets at some points, it's like, ooh, you poor poor thing. You poor poor thing. Like you it's a no-win situation. It's completely no-win. Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:49

I guess you gotta wonder though, like, did she did she did Deborah like become possessed potentially after You know, getting this disease or did she You know what I mean? Like when did when did this start?

SPEAKER_05 1:06:06

Oh, what came first, the chicken or the egg?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:08

Because uh is it because she's weak be from the disease, or like did th this always be a thing because this body or these remains were in her fucking attic. Well, they weren't. She moved them.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:20

Yeah, yeah. Interesting question. So I think there's the element of this, right? Where they suggest that the little girl is more susceptible and he's able to latch onto her because she has she's weak and she has cancer, right? So not sure. Chicken or the egg, Alzheimer's are the demon. Maybe they arrived at the same time.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:42

Yeah, it's interesting to think about. You never know. We'll never know.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:47

Literally never. And let me tell you though, that obviously we talk about Henri, the demon. By far the worst part of this movie. If they had really stuck to Alzheimer's and then some vague demonic possession energy, that would have been just fine enough. The lore that we get, while not uncool, I think it's pretty cool, it it did a weird take with the s the snake of it all, with the Deborah Logan unhinging her jaw and swallowing another human. You know, like cool in a cave. I know that it scares a lot of people. I suppose it's effective, but for me, it was just the specific execution of that lore, it really detracted from the rest of the movie. It was it was really riding high and then kind of tripped at the finish line.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:40

Okay, yes. That specific that specific scene of her like trying to eat the head of that kid. Like, I'm sorry, maybe it was effective to others, it was very silly looking to me. It threw me off. I I feel like the worst part to me in this film, honestly, is probably the reveal, right? I know we talked about it earlier, you kind of mentioned it. I I just didn't care for the supernatural path that they chose to take, like with the possession or the spirit coming back to try to finish whatever the hell he was trying to finish in the beginning. I I said it before, I think less is more here, and I think it really would have been much more effective if they just left you wondering: was that some demonic possession or was that just the horrors of Alzheimer's? That would have been a much more effective film for me. I don't think they needed to add any of that other bullshit. Like they could have just made this a found footage film trying to make a documentary, filming some fucking crazy shit, Deborah Logan, Jill Larson's performance, and it would have been fucking gold. Not that this ruined the movie, because I slashed it. But if you were making a remake and it was gonna be better and I was behind the camera, this is what the fuck it's gonna be.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:02

Interesting. Okay, so I have some questions though. I'm gonna pull some questions before I get into my worst part then, because so are you saying that removing just the whole specific like snake and like sacrifice situation, but then how would you justify some of the other things that happened earlier on in the film, like her jumping onto the counter and that so you're saying like leaving that stuff ambiguous?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:24

100%.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:25

Okay, okay, I see less is more.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:27

You don't need to know all that, you just need to know that it's fucked up and you're questioning yourself.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:32

Hmm. Okay, interesting. It's giving almost like a little bit it follows then, but not because I mean I guess you do see what it follows does, right? Or the demon in it follows does when it takes over these beings, or just like you know, just appears. But it is still like that ominous like lingering of what are they capable of? What are they gonna do to me? So okay. I don't know, guys. I actually like enjoyed the snake being thing. I think that's when I was really fucking like, whoa, that is scary as all hell, just that entire ending. I think it was most tense feeling, the most like what in the whole hell has happened to her, what is taking over at this point? But I guess that's where the supernatural and like that kind of stuff that I enjoy came into play and what I was expecting out of the whole movie, and on and quite frankly, I was rather like at that point, I was like, I want to feel this about this movie versus the reality of Alzheimer's and staring at her and the things that happened to her. So I guess maybe there's that. But I would say that the worst part, I think I've talked a little bit about Gnosium. I guess if I had to would be like the supporting characters and like and all that, because they were a little bit filler. But if I was just I'd say another one, honestly, the worst part was how many times I had to pause this film and what it literally did to me. That was not pleasant at all. And it almost reminded me, and I think at this point this is like a bit we've got going on in the show, but it reminded me of how you must have felt with skin em rink or people that like watch skin emarink and how like visceral it was coming out of that experience and what like it left them thinking. Because I am sure that if I had this played in my like at my friend's house, and none like they don't know anyone that has Alzheimer's, the person that they know is my grandmother, so that's it, you know. Um, I'm sure that they wouldn't have felt the things that I did, and it's not that the movie is like like in your face, crazy about all the Alzheimer's things. They are, but in the most subtle things, when she was hyperventilating, that was the most difficult thing I've ever had to see, honestly, in a long freaking time. That was so difficult, like things like that was so visceral that it's hard to say it's the worst part because it's the best part in a way, right? That's the point of the fucking movie. I just didn't enjoy the 24 hours afterwards. Just put it that way.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:07

Yeah, didn't enjoy it at all.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:08

And let me tell you, I've had my fill on this movie. I think if I ever revisit it again, it's gonna have to be a very long time from now. And even then, I imagine that I would have either potentially gone through this again or maybe be going through it myself. So maybe just not, actually, when I think about the math left on my life.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:28

I think I'm good. And it's funny because I initially told my friend, I said, I am never watching this again. And he was like, Really? Never watching it again? So we I mentioned it earlier. Like, it's one of those things where I'll watch this movie again, I'm sure, in years' time when I've taken a moment to like let my current situation at home kind of dissipate and like settle down and the inevitable will happen. And after some time after that, I'm sure I will find this movie again, and then I'll be a little more down to watch it, you know? But right now, anytime soon, not gonna happen. Absolutely not.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:08

Yeah, definitely. I mean, I've seen this at least twice now. Uh, it's not something I'm going to purposely seek out, but I would watch it maybe if someone requested it or something like that. But yeah, I mean, I'm good for now. There's there's just no need to watch it anytime soon.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:24

Well, I think it can stay right where it is then, and we can enjoy it from afar because there you have it, folks. The taking of Deborah Logan as voted on and selected by our patrons has earned a universal slash. And I don't think we need to revisit it anytime soon. We've certainly had a robust discussion here, but it doesn't end here by any means.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:43

We want to know what you think. Curious if you would allow a camera crew into your home to record such personal and private things that are going on in your family life. In this economy, maybe. Maybe. I guess so. To make a book, I pr I I guess. Do what you want. But I am curious, so please let us know. And you can join in on the conversation by hanging out with us for free in our Discord. Click the link in our show notes to sign up.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:06

Yeah, if you've enjoyed listening to our mind slowly leave the premises, consider becoming one of our patrons. Visit patreon.com slash hacker slash to enjoy more of the show with early access, extended episodes, bonus content, found footage, and live shows. Minus the found footage. Wow. That's just the fucking icing on top of this shitty fucking cake.