274: Amityville II: The Possession (1982)

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You can't just walk your ass into a crime scene just because you're a fucking priest.

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Greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hack or Slash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. It's like a movie. If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack.

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A total joke. A waste of time.

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Or a slash.

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Totally killer, pun intended.

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We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, we're rating these movies with the perspective we've gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast. This week I'm joined by the super flat-space guy Mac.

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Go on, father, hit me before I change my mind.

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The classic horror connoisseur Sean.

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I think mommy doesn't want to make love to Daddy anymore.

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And the paranormal paramore. Binx. You put the fork here, stupid. This week we're going back to a haunted house franchise we last covered back in episode 15. Before we get down to business though, we have some follow-up.

SPEAKER_01 1:04

Let's follow up on a movie. Well, the rest of us, not me though, apparently recently watched Renfield from this year, 2023. I still have not seen this.

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Mac, get it together.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

I know. I was on a I was on a trip, I was on a vacation, I was on a little a little thing when it was out. So thanks for covering it without me, though. I appreciate that. We wanted to know what everyone thought, and we held a poll. 10% of our listeners hacked it and 90% of them slashed it.

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Which feels like the best that a Nicolas Cage film has done on our show so far.

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It's well deserved. That was a fun movie.

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To be clear, there were a couple options. It wasn't just Wickerman. It was also Mandy that I had to defend with my life.

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I I was watching a clip recently. Somebody posted, I think, the Cheddargoblin to Instagram, and I was like, oh yeah. I was like, yeah, okay. Remember that.

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My problem is I can't hear or see Cheddargoblin and not think of Syspheria. Oh. In the main theme.

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Interesting.

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That's just me. Okay.

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Well, some of our listeners left us some comments about the movie. Shell says, just finished watching this and had an absolute blast. The level of absurdity was through the roof, and it was everything I'd want in my vampire movie.

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Sounds about right.

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Amber said, I finally got a chance to get out and watch Renfield last night. Nicolas Cage did not disappoint us Dracula. He acted exactly like I imagined he would, and it was spectacular. My only complaint, I would have liked a little more Dracula scenes, but I understand it was supposed to be more focused on Renfield. This gets a slash from me.

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Honestly, I wouldn't have expected I would go into a Renfield movie wanting more Nicolas Cage Dracula, but here we were. Nicholas Cage as Dracula fucking serves.

SPEAKER_02 2:40

Yeah. Now I feel like we need a uh prequel.

SPEAKER_04 2:43

Oh yes, like give us when they first met. Go back and remake the 1931 Dracula, but with Nicolas Cage.

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That would be interesting, for sure. Wow, I'd give it a try.

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And say hello to some new patrons. Danielle and Sarah, thank you so much for joining the Hackerslash family. Here's your seat. We'll bring over some leftovers, reheat them for you first, though. Welcome to the family.

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But it won't be cold in the middle. Very important.

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Pour some gravy on there, you won't even care.

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Disgusting. No, or I'm not giving my patrons gravy.

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And that's our follow-up.

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The Haunted House trope was at an all-time high in the late 70s and early 80s, and few films personified the genre better than the film about a Long Island home we originally covered when we compared it to its 2005 remake. The original 1979 horror classics box office success laid the foundation for a franchise that's still going today. If you're curious on where we stood on the original movie, you can catch our current team's thoughts on our patron exclusive rewind episode, and you can find the link to that in our show notes. Its 1982 successor, though, positioned itself instead as a predecessor, taking inspiration from the Hans Holzer book, Murder in Amityville. This week's film, though, separates itself from the perils of the Lutz family and instead tells the story of a different family tormented by demonic forces within their new home, with plenty of bloodshed and shocking twists along the way. This week we're talking about Amiville 2, the Possession. Who's seen this one before?

SPEAKER_06 4:08

So this will actually be my first time watching any of the Amineyville movies outside of the original and the 2000s remake. So I'm venturing a new journey, a new world at this point.

SPEAKER_02 4:20

Okay, so I think I'm actually with you unless I come across other ones in the franchise other than the original and the 2005 remake or whatever, because I don't think I actually have seen this one before. Like I thought that maybe once I started it, it had just been a while and I'd remember it, but that didn't happen. So if I had seen this one, I remembered absolutely nothing about it. This is a new movie to me.

SPEAKER_01 4:45

We are so aligned because I had seen the 2005 remake until I went and watched the OG for our recent episode. And now I've seen this one for the first time. So yeah, this is we're like all three of us are kind of together here.

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And the judgment on Chris's face was quite astonishing when that statement was made.

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No.

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Okay, fam.

SPEAKER_04 5:05

It's less about the judgment and more about the who the fuck am I watching this movie? Because what I was about to say is I actually have very specific memories of Amnival horror, as we discuss in the rewind. But this is the first time that I've truly understood the Evil Dead, Evil Dead 2 moment that Sean mentioned a few episodes back where he said, most people say they love the Evil Dead, but they're actually talking about Evil Dead 2. It's not that I love this movie, but I did watch it a lot. And I did have much stronger memories in terms of like the feelings of this movie than the original Amineville horror, because there's a scene, and listen, this movie has some weird shit in it, don't get me wrong. There is a scene that I immediately see in my mind, even though I can't fucking see things, right? But I'm thinking and I'm describing about like these two people are outside the house, they're having this conversation, someone goes inside, and then there's a conflict, right? This is the moment that I think of first when I think of the Amineyville horror. And there's been a lot of feelings that are tied to this movie and how it makes me feel that I kind of also like paint with a broad stroke over the whole franchise. So I first saw it when I was very, very young. I haven't seen it since at least in my adult life. I haven't seen this movie since I was a teenager. But I was I'm surprised that not more people have seen this one.

SPEAKER_02 6:29

Yeah, it feels like it's almost like I mean, it just definitely feels like this one may have just gotten kind of like lost in history, in essence, right? It feels like it may, now that I'm watching it, I can I can kind of get the feel, and we'll talk about it later, but the feel of it like being a cult classic. So based on the little bit that I that I have heard from you, Chris, or reading the synopsis on this on this film, like I'm really only expecting to maybe have this one be a little bit more over the top, give us a little more than its predecessor did, but that's really about it. Like, I didn't have too many expectations going into this. I just knew nothing about it.

SPEAKER_01 7:09

I knew that you know Chris mentioned previously having a phobia because of this movie of you know having yourself turn against yourself and then hurt your own family. But for the movie itself, I like I skimmed the synopsis. I expected just some like absolutely foul things. Um, it seemed just from the synopsis like a movie that was gonna be packed with so many different ideas.

SPEAKER_06 7:29

Yeah, and I think uh going into this movie, I expected to just honestly hate it. And so the thing is that I I expected kind of like a really cheap sequel, incredibly cheesy time. In terms of the plot, I figured, all right, well, I know this story because I've I I had been obsessed with Amityville Horror specifically in just that movie and and everything else. That I was like, all right, okay, I I kind of know what's about to happen. I did though get a little bit spoiled on a couple things that end up happening in the film. So that was a little unfortunate. But regardless, I was like, all right, although I know some things are gonna happen, I want to see how this plays out. And expecting the cheesy factor or whatever, that it was gonna be like a weird, funny enough, like an evil dead situation where it's just like, oh, it's just gonna go into that level of annoyingness. But I was pleasantly surprised. We'll get into that.

SPEAKER_04 8:25

Interesting. I'm curious how this got spoiled for you. Was it just because of like the knowing what the ultimate fate is, or was it because more happens in the movie that you weren't expecting?

SPEAKER_06 8:36

No, I actually, well, to be honest, I actually was doing some research for us and like preparing our stuff, and I probably was paying a little too much attention into what I was doing, and I actually read what I was what I was doing. Oh no. Yeah, yeah, but it's okay. It's okay. And I mean, and again, it's not like a big deal to me though, because it's almost like how do you spoil in a way, like, how do you spoil what's gonna happen when I know what happens in this murder, right? So if it's about the murders, like okay, I know what goes on, I know what the theme is gonna be, but the specifics of it are still shocked me. Like, although I knew what might go on, the way that it was played out was still very visceral. Were you clutching pearls? I was look, I was appalled, shocked, clutching pearls. There was like a moment there where I paused it and I was like, Oh, let's let's brace myself a little bit. But it just kept going in such weird directions that I was like, what the fuck am I watching? But not in a like this is again, I thought I was gonna hate it, but not in a way that I hated it. But I was like, oh, this is this is twisted, this is not what I thought.

SPEAKER_04 9:53

Yeah. Which is such an interesting feeling, right? Because you go into this and this movie paints itself with its original trailer. It says the Lutz family escape with their lives, but the original owners weren't so lucky. And we know, based on watching the Anime Evo horror, what befell the family that came before the Lutz family. We all know this. There's only one way this can end. But for me, that didn't stop it from feeling so fucking sad in a lot of places. And there are other things, you know, beings like you said, it's twisted, it's weird, it's like icky, and it's so bizarre for a movie to give that icky feeling and be effective in giving you the icky feeling, and maybe that's why this movie stands out so much. But man, from the moment that we see this family come on screen to the very last moment that you see them, I just felt real fucking sad.

SPEAKER_02 10:53

Yeah, there's a lot of feelings in this one. I and I agree with both of you. I felt like angry, shocked, upset, disgusted, sad, all these different feelings throughout the film. But I I gotta say, I was digging the haunted house vibe. I felt like just in the first few minutes gave us more than the first one did in the whole entire movie, right? And and that alone is impressive.

SPEAKER_01 11:15

I was gonna say, no matter what you feel watching this movie, you don't feel bored because there is so much stuff going on the entire time. Like they are throwing small details, small little happenings at you, like you said from the get-go, and then just amping up from there with way better pacing than the first movie and like a bazillion percent more special effects.

SPEAKER_04 11:36

Yeah. This is this movie is what I imagine whenever I hear someone saying, Oh, you're doing the most. This movie did the most.

SPEAKER_06 11:44

And I think that's kind of like what surprised me about this movie just in general. Like off the bat, going from what like me kind of convinced that I was just gonna hate this movie and probably every other movie that followed it. Um, it went from zero to five billion in quite literally the first 20 minutes. I initially wrote down the first five minutes because it did, and then it just kept going into insanity, and I was like, yo, the first 20 minutes are wasting no time. We're gonna let you know very quickly what you're about to get into, buckle in, and this is gonna feel like you know, if you ride the Hulk or any of those like roller coasters that have like that that initial like shock when they launch you out, like that's what this beginning of the film felt like for me. I was having that feeling of like, oh, this has to stop. Not in a bad way, again, right? But like this was very much um waste no time. You know what we are about, we know that this house is haunted, blah blah blah, whatever. Like, let's get to the disgusting part. Let's let's kick it into high gear.

SPEAKER_02 12:51

Oh, yeah, absolutely. I I gotta say, I was surprised that the film was instantly creepier than the first one, like in just that opening scene. Like we talked, I know we talked in the in the rewind that we loved the theme song and how like how that added to the film and how creepy that was with the shots of the house and stuff, but like this one, just in that opening shot of just the theme song and the way they shot the house with like the foggy fall vibes, it just hit different.

SPEAKER_01 13:17

Yeah, that was that was pretty surprising as well. I think the the feeling was a very different movie because it is a very different movie. But for me, I was still I was still met with disappointment, you know. In our rewind episode, I talked about some disappointments in in the first movie, uh, just as a concept, the whole existence of the movie. But I I felt some disappointment here too. I won't go into details, but continuing to play into a criminal's attempt to explain away a crime and making money off of it, just it feels icky, like Chris said. There was some ickiness here. I think if the film had been set in another town, called something else entirely from Amityville, I would feel less grossed out, but like I couldn't separate that feeling when watching this. It's just icky.

SPEAKER_04 13:56

It really walks a fine line because for so much of the movie, you're getting one story, and then there hits a point where you're getting another story. And when it hits that point, it's not that it stops being interesting, but it has a lot to live up to when you're gonna show the shit that you just showed. You know what I mean? Like there's a lot of responsibility there, and it gets really weird. And I think something that has always disappointed me about this movie and will continue to disappoint me about this movie, is its third act. It's just it loses the momentum. There wasn't a lot that I really, really wanted in terms of the direction that it was going. I feel like we could have gotten the middle of the movie as the climax of the movie, and that would have done its job.

SPEAKER_02 14:43

I can see where you're going with that for sure. I I see it. Like I agree that that could have been the movie for for sure. The third act was interesting to say the least.

SPEAKER_06 14:53

I'm at a crossroads because I I do have this feeling that the third act at that point I was a little checked out, but then it also has some of my favorite gore and visual effects that wouldn't have really happened if we didn't like set the tone for, right? You had to set that plot up, that last bit up for that to happen. Without that, we wouldn't have really got it. So although I'm like, I'm not necessarily the biggest fan of the deviation of like the story per se, and it was a little drawn out, it's like, oh, I when the payoff at the very end was like, All right, I forgive you.

SPEAKER_04 15:27

Okay. So I'm I'm curious to see how this goes then, because I know there's some movies that we have coming up where maybe the end does not justify the means. So I'm curious to see how it fares in your rating, but I think one of the things that stands out to me is that while this movie is not scary, I do think the actions that are committed in this movie are terrifying. And this is the one-two punch that made me afraid I was gonna kill my family, right? Like this this kind of scares the shit out of you. You think about like, you know, fun, lumining family, something goes wrong. What happens then? It's rough. It's absolutely rough. And I think some of the imagery we get here, I was expecting some level of being numb to it, right? We think about like the level of violence that we have grown as a society used to seeing, not only in film, but in the news and the things that are happening in our country and around the world every single day. No one in this country is like a uh some form of stranger to brutality in some way, right? We've all seen some horrific shit. And I was expecting for maybe the shit that I saw in this movie to not hit me as hard, but it definitely did. So while it's not frightening, it is emotional.

SPEAKER_02 16:40

Well, I let me just say that I'm glad that it you were not numb to it because that would be frightening in and of itself. But yeah, I don't I don't think that there is anything super frightening about this film. It's definitely it's over the top, and maybe for its time it may have been frightening, I'm not sure, but it it's really just more violent than anything. And and that's to your point, maybe where the fright factor would come into play. Especially, I don't know what age you were when you watched this for the first time, but I can definitely see that messing with your mind at a young age.

SPEAKER_04 17:10

I was probably like seven years old.

SPEAKER_02 17:12

Oh, yeah. Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_04 17:14

Seven years old. What in the world?

SPEAKER_01 17:17

Nice. Wow. Well, that's not that's not the the spec for rated R, I don't think.

SPEAKER_04 17:21

But listen, when you're that young, you're too young to understand some of what was happening in this movie, all right?

SPEAKER_02 17:27

Oh yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 17:28

You just push it into your psyche and hold on to it for adulthood. That's what happens.

SPEAKER_04 17:32

Yeah, well, then you watch it when you're an adult, you're like, oh shit, that was in here. That's crazy. That's really how it went down here. I mean, the demons got me in my childhood. Now I'm just like, oh wow, I got some interesting choices here.

SPEAKER_01 17:46

Oh, those inner demons are back to haunt. The the ones in this movie weren't really haunting. I I just I have a hard time finding anything scary when it comes to a movie. This is absolutely no exception. There's there's some moments where we get some good creepiness and we get some good tension. When you make it, like you mentioned, into that, into that last third of the movie, it gets cartoonish. And that robs whatever they had built up for the last two-thirds of the movie.

SPEAKER_06 18:12

For me, it's that there are some things that are a little try-hard in this film when it comes to the fright, like the sound design, like the typical things we like to see. I was like, oh, this is you're trying to do the jump scare, you're trying to do that in the era of this, you know, of the 80s, but it doesn't really land. But okay. But the effects and the body horror is out of hand. Like this is Cronenberg craziness. So I'm here for it. And that is what you know you're saying in terms of the cartoonish side. Like, I think it landed extremely well. It's disgusting, unnerving. But then we get to the what we were obviously talking about. There are some disturbing scenes that have nothing to do with any visual effects, plot, horror, nothing. It's just flat out disturbing. So I would tread lightly with this film for sure, because it's like the the fact that you were seven years old and you saw these things, which again you would have never really understood. And I and I get that, but it's just the idea, like, because obviously we're in our 30s and we're watching this, and I'm like, yikes, this is rough to see in an 80s film. It's it's so interesting.

SPEAKER_04 19:20

Yeah, here we are. I mean, look, my first movie was Children of the Corn. So I you really had to just like step it up after that. You know what I mean? Like, like Children of the Corn is kind of like weak shit in comparison to Amneyville 2, the possession. But let me say this. This movie has some shit to live up to, right? We have the atmospheric tension, the you literally see fucking nothing the entire time of the Amneyville horror except for some spooky halo hallucinations. And you have this movie coming on the heels of that a couple years later. So there's some high expectations, right? And I think it is difficult to really infuse a whole lot of originality at a principle level, right? Like because there's source material that you have to work with. You're operating within the confines of not only the historical reality of what happened, but then B the fictional accounts of a fictional event of real life people living in that house. There's a lot of complex stuff there. But yet, this movie still manages to take some absolutely obscene levels of liberties to tell its own story. Listen, Binx, you walked into this movie saying, How surprised can you really be? I already know about this. You know what's gonna happen. And then it hits you with something different. So while, again, Mac, you have the ickiness, I understand that. At the very least, you can say that it had some fucking cojones on them because the shit's a little original.

SPEAKER_01 20:50

Oh boy. Oh, I just wholly, holy lacking in originality. And I mean it with like wholly with an H and holy with a WH. So 50% of the movie is like bits and pieces that you could argue maybe are unoriginal. There's like one big piece that's to me pretty darn original. And then the other 50% of the movie is a clear rip of a horror classic. They literally were just like, hey, uh, what should we do for this part? I don't know. Just do that movie, but in our movie.

SPEAKER_02 21:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:19

And it's so obvious and so badly done, it's just that's why it's a rip. It's not like an homage. If they did it well, that's an homage. This is a ripoff, just a copy and paste and then scramble up all the letters and do it badly.

SPEAKER_02 21:30

I'll take bits and pieces from the both of you, right? Like, I think I'll give this one some originality points for bringing us a highly fictional rendition of the DeFeo murders, right? Um, the story that inspired a franchise. On the other hand, yeah, like I feel like this took every possible haunted house gimmick in the book and overused them to the max in this movie. And to your point, Mac, like not even to mention that in some specific ways they literally copy and pasted the Exorcist, like a hundred percent. So while I want to give it originality points for you know trying to be creative and doing some crazy stuff, but like I also can't give it that much originality points because it did just recycle a bunch of crap.

SPEAKER_06 22:15

Which is honestly why I think I struggled just in general, in terms of uh as we're going along in the movie, like originality-wise, I can see a lot of homages to things, and I can give credit where credit's due when you try to implement some Easter eggs and all that. Like, we can we notice the difference between that and a copy and paste situation, so it's rough. And I think that's kind of why, like, towards the as we're getting into the third act, we're getting to the ending. I just was like, all right, wait, this isn't over. Like, we still got another 40 minutes to go. Like, you had me, I was doing I was doing good, I was enjoying it, and then I really wasn't. And then just the very end there was like, all right, you ripped me back in again. But you guys bring up good points. I don't know if it's necessarily forgivable in terms of originality or the ending either, but that's just my take.

SPEAKER_01 23:06

Well, the ending is is really the part where we see how bad they are at nailing originality, because the ending of the movie is where they were like, hey, let's copy the exorcist. And then when they tried to do that, they're like, Well, crap, how do you wrap that up? And just floundered it. They just took that plane and crashed it instead of landing it.

SPEAKER_02 23:25

Yeah, they they they did in some ways for sure. Uh, I I think the ending overall, it was interesting to say the least. I I mean I I did like some parts of it. I'm not trashing the entire ending by any means. Well, a lot of it or most of it, or yeah, I don't know, all of it could have been a ripoff, yes, but I liked some parts and then others I just thought were like absolutely absurd.

SPEAKER_04 23:47

Listen, I'll say it, even as complimentary as I've been, like, yes, I'm giving it originality points for having the fucking audacity that it has to do this to a real story. The ending's the worst part of the movie. The whole third act is the worst part of the movie. Arguably, maybe even the last 40% of the movie. Worst part of the movie. So eh, I get it. There's a resolution. If you're into that kind of thing, maybe you'll be into it. But I I kind of lost interest along the way. But we'll see how all these factors translate into the scoring before we actually get some scoring done. Sean, how would you describe the gore score?

SPEAKER_02 24:22

You know, I think that, you know, while there are some scenes that may be grotesque and some scenes of violence and even death, there just wasn't enough for this one to get much higher than low. Like I want to give it medium. I I guess I can see some people bringing it out of low territory into medium just by some of the gory, grotesque effects, but I still am erring on the low side for the gore score.

SPEAKER_06 24:48

And what about the animal report? Well, there's no debate here. We are completely safe.

SPEAKER_04 24:53

Let's go ahead and get into our ratings in Emneyville 2, the Possession from 1982. Was it a hack or a slash?

SPEAKER_01 24:59

I think this film is a clear improvement from the first, in my, in my mind, in terms of like pacing and the fact that they used more special effects, at least the special effects in the first half before it devolved into a derivative mess. But it leans into that insulting idea that real life Ronald DeFeo was influenced by the supernatural to kill his family. And I just think that makes this a detestable money grab. Imagine any other mass murder of a family being turned into a demonic-themed movie only nine years after it occurred. That whole concept and the extremely poor delivery of this film makes this an immediate hack for me.

SPEAKER_02 25:37

Okay. All right. Well, listen, I think that while this film has many flaws, it is controversial in many ways. I also kind of feel like it almost saved the franchise because when you compare this one to its predecessor, this one to me blows that one out of the water. This film really brings it to you from the very beginning to the very end, as weird and absurd as it is. It's really, when you think about it, it's everything you want in a cult classic horror film. It's campy, it's sleazy, it's dark, it's gritty, it's kind of bad, but it's also kind of good. So it's not often that a sequel is better than the original, but this one simply is. It's a slash.

SPEAKER_06 26:19

Well, that's a a a bold thing to say, but you know what? I support you. I don't know about necessarily it being better than the first, but I'm I'm gonna uh, you know, just basically stake my flag in the sand and say I'm just a big original gal when it comes to Amonyville Horror. So, and really who am I to talk? I haven't seen any of the other ones aside from that one in the remake, so maybe I'll feel differently down the 15,000 movies that are awaiting us in this franchise, but I highly doubt it. You bring up both good points in terms of your justifications for the hack. And as I I was listening to them, I was like, man, maybe I need to rethink a couple of things. But here's what I'm gonna say. I'm gonna approach this movie with kind of removing the fact that it's you know based on a real life murder, because I agree, I think the profits there are it's definitely fucked up for sure, but I'm also not going to try to compare it too much to the first. So when I think of this movie, I think of how like I just genuinely was shocked by how much I actually didn't hate it, and that has to stand for something, that has to mean something. I mean, it's depiction of violence, it's body horror, it it's just like shock factor. Even its score was still really good. Like, there are definitely elements of this movie that despite the plot just kind of getting real crazy in the third act and making no sense whatsoever, I was entertained and I was completely shocked. And ultimately, it's kind of nice to see a franchise that later on down the road apparently just goes off its you know, rocker a little bit with all kinds of things that happen, I guess. You know, I think about how it's it has the nerve to do something so intense and depict some scenes there that are so visceral that reminds you that we're watching horror, you know, not like cute campy horror, not like like actual horror, what the definition of the word horror means. And so that's kind of my takeaway from this film, and for that I'm giving it a slash.

SPEAKER_04 28:23

Let the record show that when I watched this movie and wrote my notes for this episode, I said to myself, Chris, you're really gonna be defending this movie's honor and you're really gonna be flying solo, because there's no fucking way anyone else is gonna give this a slash. And let me say I am shocked. And Sean was originally sick on the first day that we were gonna record this episode, and you know, I said to him, if I'm the only one who slashes this, I'm gonna read your rating for you because this is this is a little bit much. This movie may have benefited from the sands of time in the sense that I am very nostalgic, and this packed the one-two punch of really defining what the Amnival horror is for me. Because for me, the horror is not the haunting or the spooky stuff, the real horror is the real tragedy of what happened, and this movie honestly is a slap in the face to that in a way that's super not cool, super not chill. It is very ick. It is one of the most ick things about this movie, and it's a movie that tries to jam in a lot of things. There's a lot that is weird about this movie, there's a lot that's not cool about this movie, but yet, just like being said, there is also some level of like, but yet I like it. I'm not saying this is a movie that should be watched by absolutely everybody, but it is for sure one that I will continue to watch in the Amdeville franchise because when I think of a movie that can make me feel something, this still makes me feel ugh, and it's very rare to be able to feel anything at all. So, with that, Amdeville 2, the Possession, has earned three slashes and one hack. I'm gonna be real, I'm surprised. You can't check the link in the show notes to find where you can find this movie right now, check it out, or heed Max Warning if you dare. Either way, join us in the second half so we can unpack the ick together. We'll see you in a bit.

SPEAKER_00 30:34

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SPEAKER_04 32:00

Welcome back, folks. You're now entering the spoiler zone for Amiville 2 the Possession, which has earned three slashes and one hack. And we have a lot to unpack here, but before we get into the specifics of our ratings, let's go through the kills.

SPEAKER_02 32:12

We have a total of six kills in this one, all pretty much in the same way. Very little is seen until afterwards. So it's gonna be hard to talk about favorite kills because man, they were all just so heartbreaking.

SPEAKER_04 32:26

Yeah, no, there's absolutely no way you can go into this movie and and have one. I would say the most heartbreaking one was probably the youngest boy.

SPEAKER_02 32:35

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 32:36

Honestly, though, also his sister like screaming for mommy and just like staring at her brother in the face. It honestly was all devastating. That that shit fucked me up, man. Let me say though that I have a least favorite non-kill. And that is the moment that suddenly Sonny is risen, he is resurrected, he is whole again. Fuck that noise. That was the dumbest looking shit I've ever seen.

SPEAKER_02 32:59

Just back to normal. Good to go.

SPEAKER_06 33:01

After his whole like we're talking about after his whole, like, I don't even know what the fuck he morphs into.

SPEAKER_04 33:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:07

Right.

SPEAKER_04 33:07

Yeah. A demon. Yeah. Yeah. It's fucking weird. It's absolutely weird. The gore in this movie is something, right? But how chilling it was to see him hunt down his family in that house, especially when we think of his sister like hiding, seeing all this hiding, then telling her little brother to hide. I don't know, man. It was it's all really fucking tough to watch.

SPEAKER_02 33:32

Yeah. You know, I I have the sixth kill listed as as Father Frank. I did just enjoy that they left that a little bit kind of ominous, like him getting possessed and the house eventually going back up for sale. I I did enjoy that whole bit of it.

SPEAKER_06 33:46

Yeah. Kind of like ties it back to the the beginning in a way. Well, you were mentioning earlier, Sean, about like in terms of the effects and stuff with what I guess is the he is risen type of scenario when it comes to Sonny. That has to be honestly my my favorite visual part of this entire movie is like the the effects were so insane. Sonny's face when he starts to deform, like there's this particular scene where he's like just spinning around and he's just getting worse and worse in his face. It was so cool, like so insane. I did not anticipate that in this film at all. Like I feel like all the others like early 80s, 70s movies that we've been seeing that the effects are are cool. I I don't know, I just wasn't expecting it to be so elevated.

SPEAKER_04 34:31

Okay, but by elevated, can we take a moment to assess how crusty those lips were and how disgusting they were? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:40

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 34:40

I know that this isn't gonna be the most disgusting thing overall in the whole movie, but it it it's pretty gross. And I felt like when watching it, with those practical effects, he was giving on you know his his demon mode was giving Linda Blair meets that guy from Hocus Pocus who has his mouth sewn shut.

SPEAKER_01 34:59

Oh yeah, Billy. That's a good description.

SPEAKER_02 35:01

Yeah, I did like the effects too. Just even just seeing like on the arm when they show that subtle, like I don't know, the movement from within the skin and stuff, I thought was pretty cool. I think my favorite element visually was some of the camera work in this one, some of the cinematography, if you will. I I could definitely see some Sam Raimi Evil Dead influence in the camera work in this movie. I I think it was really effective as like the lurking ghost or entity in this film. I I loved that. I I also like loved that upside down shot of Sonny then slowly spinning it around and making it way back into like the regular frame or shot or whatever. So yeah, just the camera work.

SPEAKER_04 35:41

Okay, hold on. I know we talk about a little bit of Sam Raimi Evil Dead energy. Let's actually call it for what it is because it's Tommy Lee Wallace, Michael Myers, opening shot of fucking Halloween. That is the that is the influence that we're getting there.

SPEAKER_02 35:57

There's some yeah, I see that too. I definitely see that.

SPEAKER_04 36:00

POV from the demon entity's perspective. Like, yeah, we do see an Evil Dead, and I 100% understand how that would that would resonate for you. Uh coming from the hidden room, and then honestly, the dramatics of throwing the tablecloth over Jesus with a fancy magic trick. Yeah. Honestly, I'd pay admission to see this demon do that. Not specifically to Jesus, but to remove that tablecloth, that's an impressive thing that people do that I never understood how it happens. However, to see that cinematography, I 100% agree with you. It's so good. I think it's also really good when we open up on the for sale sign and the house is super gorgeous. The fog is creepy.

SPEAKER_03 36:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 36:37

I I thought it just looked absolutely fantastic. For all this movie's flaws, the cinematography was not one of them.

SPEAKER_01 36:43

Definitely. I was so happy to be watching this on my phone during that scene where it goes upside down because then I just rotated my phone with the camera so that I didn't have to be exposed to a flipping camera. I was like, oh, this is so convenient. I can rotate with it at the same time, match the speed, it's perfect. Not gonna get dizzy. Very good. That was that was helpful. Well, I think one of my favorite visuals though was like a silly one, but it was when the paint brushes were haunted and they came up and painted on the wall. That was actually really cool and I think a great job for a for a haunting or possession.

SPEAKER_04 37:18

Okay, are you gonna talk about how great the Demon's Petmanship is? It was very legible.

SPEAKER_01 37:22

So, first of all, that was like, you know, when they teach kids cursive and like they're first off really horrible, and then like two years later, they they end up getting the best handwriting of anyone ever before it fades when they get like teenage age, you know. But yeah, that was I literally thought it was like, is he copying the the like the little girl's handwriting when I saw that? Because that's what it looked like. It looked like she's got two years under her belt learning cursive, and it's a child writing it up there. That was hilarious.

SPEAKER_02 37:49

Yeah, that was good for sure. I forgot about that for a second.

SPEAKER_04 37:52

Pretty good for a demon.

SPEAKER_01 37:53

The demon had been practicing, you know, learning learning its Danelian script. But I I think it was a good moment, of course, because it showed, you know, the whole interaction with the father.

SPEAKER_04 38:04

I mean, the interaction with the father, and like I know Binks you joked about how pleasant he is. Can we talk about that moving day moment when they show up and just shit's already off with him? And I think it was interesting to see because I think if you w if you watch the first film, you might expect this is a perfectly loving family, everything was fine, and then they moved into the house and it got worse. But no, moving day, he hasn't even stepped foot in the house, and he's already an asshole.

SPEAKER_06 38:33

Yeah. That man was an asshole from start to finish. I'm not shocked by that at all. My favorite scene is very early on, and kind of like at the beginning, uh, when they're moving in, it's like when they're having dinner, they have like this cute little family moment where they're looking at the reflection in the mirror and it looks so sweet, you know, all of them like cozied up, like if it was a nice little photo, and then they go and they have you know, they're about to have dinner, they have the prayer, and instantly like it just unleashes their anger. They sort of start yelling at each other and just shit hits the fan. And the when the mirror falls, it's not even broken, but it has a slight crack. And I instantly was thinking to myself, like, there we go. That's like the the house starting the shit show. You know what I mean? Like the mirror is still intact, which to me was like, okay, the family is still in there. The the essence of who they really are is there, but the house slowly but surely is already about to start their fuckery. And what happens when you get it cracked? It gets worse. It gets worse. So I don't know. I I thought the scene like resonated with me a lot. I thought it was really cool. I instantly saw a lot of symbolism in it. I it and probably just me just looking too deep into things, but I thought it was a really pretty shot, a really pretty moment of like, oh wow, so early on, the house is already putting in that work.

SPEAKER_04 39:55

All the fighting scenes are super hard to watch. There's another moment later where yeah, he starts wanting to hit the kids with belts, and then he smacks the wife, and then he starts belting her. It was difficult to watch, and that is that is that feeling, right? That's that's the like oh man, like granted, nobody deserves what happens in the end to this family, but if anyone did deserve it, it'd be him. Just get be gone. Then the first time you see Sonny wield the gun, it's because he's trying to break it up, right? The next time he picks up that gun, it's to murder his whole family and do something so horrifically evil. But the first time he picks it up is to try to like get this monster of a father he has off of his family.

SPEAKER_01 40:39

I I want to go back to the beginning of the movie. I think the opening is still probably my favorite scene out of all of this. I think there's more interesting stuff that happens as we get through the film, and that that is for sure. There's some really crazy stuff that happens. But I think the beginning here, I love a good horror movie that wants to start things out on a light and positive note because that's what helps you juxtapose the evil later on, is when you see how like how pleasant things seem up front. That's a good way to do it. It also, of course, get does like show us the relationship between the siblings as well, because the stuff that happens later on, it's it's obviously a shock, it's obviously a surprise. But if you look back at the beginning, it's not as much of a surprise because the sister really kind of like looks up to and idolizes her brother, and we kind of see that uh he takes advantage of that when he's possessed. But I think the beginning of the movie is good because it's still nice, it's so lighthearted, but there's inklings of everything that's going to happen, and so it's like a good foreshadowing moment.

SPEAKER_02 41:37

Just the whole beginning, yeah. I I think while we're talking about like the early on in the movie, uh, not my favorite scene, but like can we just say like why the fuck was the mover dude just like flailing around in that room in the crawl space? Like he was just flinging mud or poop or whatever the hell that was, like an idiot. Like he's just down there being dumb.

SPEAKER_04 41:56

That whole situation, the movers were weird. Honestly, she was concerning for me because listen, if you see the plumbing actively transition from blood to water, that's a problem. Don't be relieved. The problem's not gone. Oh, yeah. You just saw some dark shit, and now the dark shit is gone. But that doesn't mean it's it isn't still in your pipes somewhere.

SPEAKER_06 42:17

But I definitely saw that scene and I was like, okay, these are the Easter eggs to the first one because like the mud was like that was what they were stuck in in the in the sequel, like the flies. Like I think that was just a really weird attempt or whatever it was to be like, let's establish that these are the things that are in the house so that when you know you look at the original, like it makes sense. Like, let's make it very clear that this is a prequel, but let's just evil dead to it a little bit, I guess, in a way. I don't know. I I I like the homage a little bit, like a little Easter eggs there, but yeah, that that that guy was unnecessary. That whole bit was unnecessary.

SPEAKER_02 42:56

I think if I had to pick a favorite scene though, I I mean, I'm not sure. I think the scene where Sonny is by himself when everyone goes to church, right? And he goes down into the basement to get a gun. He's hearing like voices from inside that creepy room, and he goes in there and sees that like hand sticking out of the wall, and he's like tripping out. Like that was that was a really good scene. That really kind of built like the intensity of what was happening inside of that house, uh, especially to Sonny himself.

SPEAKER_04 43:24

Oh, for sure. My favorite scene is another moment where there's intensity. Sonny ends up being by himself. It is the scene that I always think of when I think of the Anneyville horror. It's the birthday party.

SPEAKER_02 43:36

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:37

Listen, this may not be the most exciting thing, it may not be the most exciting scene in the movie. I get it. But for some reason, this is the one that stands out to me and what has been burned into my brain. She looks up to the window and she walks back into the house. Right? She sees him up there. This whole family is here for him. They had their birthday. Celebration with him. It seems like maybe things are gonna be okay. Even his dad hugs him, and it seems like it's gonna be really, really sweet. But then we see Patricia like understand that there's something wrong with him there, right? Like she seems concerned, her mom sees her seeing him, and her mom has been calculating this in her head. She noticed the hug that lingers in a house a little bit inappropriate or a lot bit inappropriate. But it's it's the confrontation there, and then even when we have Patricia confronting Sonny and he says, Go away, damn bitch, it makes me think, was that Sonny or was that the demon? Or was it the last little bit of Sonny left before the demon completely took over? Because in my mind it's Sonny, and he was desperately trying to just get her away. Like his isolation was not a I'm gonna be away and you know let the demon consume me. It's like I don't want to see my family, I don't want my family to see me like this. It it feels like that was the last little bit of him was like, don't come near me because it's dangerous. Is that actually what it was? Probably not. But then to see the confrontation between Patricia and her mother, and then to know that Patricia called and tried to get help. It's the most fucking tragic thing in that whole movie.

SPEAKER_01 45:20

Yeah. It it hurts because it obviously like we see a little bit of that later on with the priest when he's like, I could have done something, I could have helped. And it seems like they try to put him on this redemption arc by the end of it where he performs the exorcism or whatever. Yeah. But in reality, he needed to probably not go on a redemption arc and instead uh take some accountability for the fact that he knew something was screwed up and dangerous going on in the family or in that house, and just like chilled on it.

SPEAKER_02 45:49

Well, but nobody would listen to him though. He didn't chill on it, did he? Like he tried to get the church to back him up on an exorcism, and they were like, yo, kick rocks, homie.

SPEAKER_01 45:58

Didn't go to the police though, if he thought something criminal was happening.

SPEAKER_02 46:00

True. He didn't go to the police, but he also didn't think the police could help the situation, maybe, you know.

SPEAKER_01 46:06

They so just like mental health providers, if they think that like someone's going to cars cause harm to somebody else, um, they have a duty to to step in and report it. Yeah. The way that the way that during the can the confession, you know, that that the sister mentions kind of what's going on and he has a look like he's figuring out something as well, kind of like the mother is later. You know, I feel like he should have been like, maybe I should tell the cops to do like a maybe listen to a quick visit, kind of check-in or something, you know?

SPEAKER_02 46:34

Yeah, yeah, I could see that for sure. Hey, you know, shoulda, coulda, woulda, I guess.

SPEAKER_04 46:39

Yeah. But I think it's important to unpack the scene that comes before that confession, and that is the weird moment and the obviously like shift in dynamic that there is between Patricia and Sonny when he is an absolute fucking predator. Like looking at the dynamics of this moment, right? A, it's weird as hell for her to comment about her parents' sex life. Period. Let's pull back that later and then dive into like the reality of what she's saying and the toxicity that they're living in in that household and like the example that has been set. That is so heartbreaking to hear and to see, and then for moments later for him to just take advantage of her. Obviously, he's possessed, but what what was she feeling, right? Like, I just couldn't tell what to make of their dynamic because it felt like something that she did not want. However, okay, well, she's now explaining what happened between her parents, and she's thinking that her dad may be forcing her mom to do things. And that is just a a fucking terrible, terrible situation for anyone to be in. B, for then the kids to have the realization here, then C to find herself in the situation that she's in. We'll get to like best part and worst part of the movie eventually. This is the worst part of the movie for me.

SPEAKER_02 47:57

Yeah, me too.

SPEAKER_04 47:58

I do think that her being so torn up about it, like this was something where it was difficult to watch. It was yikes, it was like uh none of it gave this as a pleasant moment. And I I know that this movie could get some heat in terms of like feeling like people feel like it's sensationalizing it or making it look sexy, and maybe that was the vibe in the 80s. I think being she said this earlier when we weren't recording, like you can look at it now for what it is versus back then, it was probably just like done in poor taste. But I don't know, man. That whole fucking thing was just absolutely terrible.

SPEAKER_06 48:37

In the 80s, I don't think it was done in poor taste. I think it was done purposely to be sexy and disturbing. Actually, I'm pretty sure that's like a a quote from the director. And because it when we were not recording, Mac and I were talking about how this scene in particular was way thousands times worse than what is what we actually got. So that just goes to show you, I don't think it was meant to sensationalize it. It was meant to be extremely, extremely, extremely hard to watch. But with the idea that like it is the 80s, so the way that she's going to be positioned and how the dialogue is and all that is gonna have that element to it. I think in some ways, why? I I don't know. I aside from obviously wanting to get that reaction from the audience and wanting them to be uncomfortable, I don't necessarily know like why you'd want to do that to people. But I this is why I said like horror is horror. It's not always supposed to be the nicest and most pleasant experience all of the time. It's supposed to be very, very painful. And I don't necessarily agree that it's necessary to do these things. I think that we're just grateful enough to be where we're at now, like educated individuals, unfortunate lived experiences, all these things to approach this scene and kind of have clearer context versus who in the 80s it's not that kind of access or those conver kinds of conversations revolving film aren't had all of the time or weren't had all the time.

SPEAKER_04 50:12

There's comes a point where you have to wonder, are some things better left unsaid? And I think in general, this moment, I think for me personally, would is something that would be better left unsaid, or if you feel like you have to allude to it in a certain way, whatever. Like I I don't want to say like play on like the will they or won't they, but I think you can hint at the angle that was the original, like, okay, maybe they were in on it together. I think you can do that without going to the links that we did here. But I will say that even then, in the way that it's filmed, and even for it being the worst part of the movie for me, it still doesn't feel to me or read to me as though it's like celebrating it. You know what I mean? And I know I have issues with far less in a lot of other movies, but those movies, it it makes me feel like the question of like, okay, but who's the audience here? Some people are gonna see this and think, oh yeah, that's great. But for me, if it stands out as an absolutely horrific moment, and you know, maybe subconsciously that's why this movie is so fucking buried in my mind.

SPEAKER_01 51:11

Yeah, it's it's something that the director deliberately wanted to make people feel uncomfortable. And not only was it a longer scene, but there was another scene where Anthony apparently assaults Dolores and and sodomizes her, and they cut that scene because just like the extended version of this one, uh of course audiences hated it and they were like deeply disturbed by it. And and I think just like you said, Chris, I think there's other ways of of getting a feeling across to people without having to show them necessarily graphic detail. And they obviously did some editing here to you know to make the viewers a little bit less grossed out, but um, I I think there's just a different way to tell the story to still get that same feeling across.

SPEAKER_02 51:54

Yeah, for sure. I think if they were going for sexy here, it came off as really sleazy and dirty. Like it just didn't, like, I I don't know. It didn't feel right. I don't I don't know that it had to be there by any means. But I I mean, outside of maybe just wanting to get a reaction or make people feel uncomfortable or whatever, I think also this was this was, if I'm not mistaken, also a rumor to have been happening with the DeFeo family, which is probably why they chose to put it in there, but it just felt off and weird.

SPEAKER_04 52:25

Yeah, and I think even looking back, right, at their begin at their beginnings. We think about their moving day, they go up to check out the rooms, there is already weird tension there between them.

SPEAKER_03 52:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 52:36

Like discussions of what their type is. Come on. I mean, like, I don't know, maybe it's just my family, we don't be talking about things like that. I uh but I also had a huge age gap between me and my siblings, so maybe that's why we never talked about it. But it got weird, and then all of a sudden they then go back and forth in a normal sibling bit, right? It's like because she was ugly, like you. Like, like, okay, there's the teasing that I guess is understandable, but I mean, hey, if that's what they wanted us to feel, hats off to them performance-wise, because they fucking delivered what they were shooting for.

SPEAKER_02 53:08

Absolutely. Let's just talk the priest, right? The scene at the end where he's going to the house after the murders. First of all, what the fuck was that? Like, you can't just walk your ass into a crime scene just because you're a fucking priest, and on top of that, he is opening up all of the fucking body bags for no apparent reason. And like, even the priest could get even if the priest could get in, certainly not your buddy, like you're entering some fucking nightclub. Like, that was just that whole part was absurd.

SPEAKER_06 53:38

Sean, man, I have nothing but that written about the priest. I quote unquote wrote, so priests can just waltz into crime scenes blessing bodies like it's all good.

SPEAKER_04 53:50

Well, it had to be the throwback to the original priest, just walking into the fucking house to bless it.

SPEAKER_06 53:55

No, I know. I was like, they have that on top, like for sure. But he was in there like, I'm here. Yeah, you know, let me do the little crucifix with my hand type of thing, like on everybody, just like if you and in case the seeing them all die wasn't good enough for you, let's revisit that all one more time in the body bags.

SPEAKER_02 54:15

Sir, you can't come in here. It's okay. I'm their priest.

SPEAKER_04 54:19

You think that the continuous thread with the Amnival horror franchise is the house and the murders and the ghosts, but really in every Amineville movie, there's a priest breaking and entering.

SPEAKER_02 54:30

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 54:31

Well, not only breaking and entering, but he literally breaks a dude out of prison. A murderer.

SPEAKER_02 54:35

Dude, yeah, what the hell?

SPEAKER_01 54:37

And then he's like, not only is he breaking him out, but he's like, You need to let him go. Yeah, well, you know what, sir? We'll drop all charges right now.

SPEAKER_02 54:45

Oh my gosh, it's absurd.

SPEAKER_04 54:47

Let me give you my gun so you can hit me on the back of the head, so at least I don't have to be held accountable for this bullshit.

SPEAKER_01 54:53

Oh, the audacity.

SPEAKER_04 54:54

Okay, actually, you know, you mentioned the the murders and the priests and all his shenanigans. I want to throw it out to the extra in the back who, too, Sonny, said, It's gonna be alright. Take it easy, kid. Sir, his whole family is dead. It's not gonna be alright. It's very much alright. It's not chill, it's not okay. It's real bad. This is the time for him to be emotional.

SPEAKER_02 55:19

Yeah. No worries, man. It's gonna be alright, dude. It's all over now.

SPEAKER_04 55:22

Somebody fucking tells me that after my whole family's been murdered, fuck you. Get away. But taking it back on a more serious note, I wanna give a huge spotlight moment to the youngest brother and youngest sister who really showed out with their sibling dynamic because they're real siblings in real life.

SPEAKER_02 55:41

Oh, yeah. Oh, I didn't realize that.

SPEAKER_04 55:44

Absolutely. Nice.

SPEAKER_01 55:45

Yeah, Erica and Brent Katz.

SPEAKER_04 55:47

Absolute cuties, the both of them. And really the moment where she like puts a plastic bag over his head or some shit, and he's like panicking, and then she takes it off and she's like, like, actually consoling him. I'm like, oh, oh, that's some sweet shit. That's the 70s.

SPEAKER_06 56:03

I don't think it was sweet at all. I was like, oh, there we go, the demons demoning.

SPEAKER_01 56:07

That's that's hardcore, you know, because that's not like walking up and like you know, finger jabbing somebody in their ribs, you know. That's not walking up and and even slapping him. But she's like, let me show you how murder happens. This is how you use a plastic bag. Make sure to tear your mouth and not try to rip it off.

SPEAKER_04 56:22

Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:23

That was next level creepy for kid to do.

SPEAKER_04 56:26

Again, huge age gap between my siblings and I. But from what I understand, they had a couple run-ins when they were younger. You know, it was the 70s, it was the 80s, it's a rough time. To be clear, no one tried to kill each other. But accidents happen.

SPEAKER_06 56:40

So then what's your argument here? Because they were she was literally trying to kill him and then was like, haha, it's okay.

SPEAKER_04 56:46

I'm thinking there's a reason why we had to be raised in conditions as children in the 90s that plastic bags are not toys because shit like this used to happen.

SPEAKER_02 56:55

Oh yeah, for sure. Somebody fucked it up for everybody, you know?

SPEAKER_04 56:59

Yeah, it's not about fucking it up. I think it's more like, hey, y'all are being negligent parents, so let's just make sure moving forward we're good on this, right? We all know that these aren't toys. I think they didn't have the benefit of that level, right? These are also the streetlight kids. No, I guess streetlight kids kind of poured also into the 90s. We just go out and do whatever the fuck you want. Oh yeah. Like we think about it, chapter one, chapter two. These kids are just off gallivanting doing whatever the fuck they want because nobody gave a shit. Because nobody knew any better. Nobody knew to give a shit. And that's what I think happened here. This is like innocent childhood fun. Sans demons.

SPEAKER_06 57:33

Yeah, sans demons as fuck, because I'm like, no, I when in doubt, it is the house. Like, the house is at play at all times. Everyone and everything that happens throughout this movie, I was like, the house is fucking with them hard, including that little girl throwing that back. I don't know about all that. You're you're like, oh, cute sibling moment, and I'm like, oh my lord, no one is safe at all.

SPEAKER_04 57:55

To be clear, I think they see the cute sibling moment happened after the bag was off the head and she was consoling him.

SPEAKER_01 58:01

It is it is kind of a bummer though that like Dolores didn't like check Sonny into some sort of like mental health facility and then immediately separate from Anthony because she knew the stuff was like really bad and unhealthy in that household, and she just didn't obviously didn't know how bad it was gonna get in this in this film, but it would have been a very different movie if she was just like, nope, you're getting professional help, and bro, you need to work on yourself.

SPEAKER_04 58:25

Would you like to know why that is, Mac? I I would because the real villain here is the patriarchy. Once again, a society that allowed women to think they didn't have the power to make these decisions for the well-being of themselves and their families. She was stripped of her agency, that's how she got a murderer for her child, the fucking patriarchy.

SPEAKER_06 58:40

The fucking patriarchy.

SPEAKER_04 58:41

Welcome to Horror 101.

SPEAKER_06 58:43

Hey, look at us, capitalism, patriarchy. We're on one today. We're doing it.

SPEAKER_01 58:47

Speaking of characters, let's let's talk about Sunny for a second because I think when we compare this to the first movie and to even like other movies, if you're gonna have a possessed character or a haunted house or anything like that, you need you need to show me and not just tell me. And this movie really, really shows us with a lot of special effects and a lot of stuff going on in the house. And I think that was the best part of the movie for me was the fact that we were just showing so much constantly from the start all the way to the very end.

SPEAKER_02 59:16

Yeah, I I think for me, the wor the worst part of the movie, and I I think we're aligned, and we may all three of us may be aligned at this point, but yeah, the worst part for me is 100% the strange and unnecessary family incest subplot. Like, I I get that the rumor happened, I get that that why it could have been there. I guess, you know, I understand that part of it, but there just really was no added value to the story because of it to me. Like whether they were trying to evoke some kind of feeling of like uneasiness or or whatever, it it was just creepy, it was gross, and in a bad way. Like they could have taken that whole piece out and continued on with the haunted house, you know, possession thing, and and and it would have been good. Like it didn't need any of that.

SPEAKER_04 59:59

Oh, 100%. Let me also give a bonus backup worst part, second worst part, if you will, to us hitting the police station and there still being 34 fucking minutes left of the movie. Lost its momentum.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:13

Yeah, I'm telling you, I looked at it when when it kept going, I was like, wait a second, what like I got another I got a whole other movie?

SPEAKER_04 1:00:20

Like a whole other half hour, you got a whole other episode of some one of your favorite TV shows.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:26

Yeah, it was it was something. What I had said was the worst part, aside from the obvious, because of course, but like the sound design, honestly, was so rough. There's one moment that I was like, I've had enough Bianca. This is unacceptable, like this is trash, write it down. This is your worst part, and stick by it. The priest hits the officer when he's trying to like do a prison break moment. And the sound that that choice was so poorly edited. The sound that they picked was just didn't make no sense. Like, that's not how it would sound if you hit someone. It was almost like if someone dropped a pen. Like, it was the weirdest fucking thing. I was like, what the fuck, dude? How are you gonna have all these like insane effects, great cinematography, and you can't even afford two more dollars for a better sound like of hitting someone? Like, it was just weird. So that killed it, and that's what just really brought the third act to the absolute ground. I came here to see, unfortunately, but like the movie is about how he killed his family, and that was done. And I was like, all right, well, why do we have to keep going after this? Like I said though, with the caveat that I'm glad I saw like the special effects that came out of it. That was very cool and gruesome. But in essence, did I really need it? No. I that could have been saved for maybe Amityville 5000 or whatever, how many other ones we're gonna end up having to do.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:51

And that does impede the assessment of his rewatchability. I will absolutely watch this again, but it's gonna be after a very long time. I think seeing this now, I'm 33. I haven't seen it definitely since I was at least 18. I think that was a good amount of time. It may be about that amount of time before I can revisit this again.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:12

Yeah. No, I I actually don't think I honestly will. I don't think I really have to. Like, uh although I was shocked and I did in enjoy that I was shocked and all this stuff, like I I don't think so. I'm good. And I know that I'm gonna have to eventually make my way towards this franchise and just keep going. And sometimes I'm like, oh, maybe I'll do a marathon backwards and like just re-drift from the beginning. No, I'll I'm good. I'm just gonna keep watching these movies, and then the only ones that I plan to re-watch are the first one in the remake, and then maybe just leave it at that. And I see that now. Who knows? Maybe some down the line are gonna I'm gonna be really all about.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:49

The real gag is we need to make sure we don't fucking change the team anymore so that we don't have to do any rewinds for this movie. Oh god.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:56

Oh my god. Just just assign viewership as as homework. That's it. Like we're not gonna rewind it, but you gotta watch it. I think I think once was plenty enough for me. Uh because if I wanted to watch The Exorcist, I would just watch The Exorcist.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:09

Yeah, like much like its predecessor, I I'm not gonna go out of my way to watch this one again, not anytime soon, but I would revisit it in a franchise marathon someday. We'll put it that way.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:20

Well, rewatchability aside, let's see if Matt can throw any less shade to this movie in fact or fiction.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:25

Number one, production on the film saw strange or unexplained events happen daily, such as onset accidents, missing props, and slamming doors, leading some of the casting crew to feel that the set was cursed.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:36

Hmm. I'd like to say that could be a fact, but you know what? I'm gonna go fact, fuck it.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:43

I'm gonna say fiction. I feel like that's a hoax. That can't be true.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:48

It's a fiction because I made it up. Nice.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:50

And there it is.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:51

Number two, the MPIA initially rated the film R due to its violence and graphic images, but even after the ending was trimmed to be less violent and the incest scene was shortened to being nearly removed, they refused to lower it to PG thirteen.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:04

Ooh, I don't even know if I checked the rating on this movie.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:07

I didn't either. Um, I'm gonna say fact.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:11

And you you know, I'm gonna say fiction. I don't know. For some reason, I wanna say fiction.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:16

That's a good choice. This is a fiction because PG-13 didn't even exist yet.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:20

Okay, yeah, alright, nice.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:22

It was like another year or two before they actually came out with it.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:25

Dang. That's a good one. That was a good one.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:27

Thank you. Number three, Jack Magner, who played Sonny, only started one other film after this before leaving behind his acting career.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:35

Ooh.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:36

Oh, I think I know that one. I think I'm I think it's fact.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:39

I was gonna say fact because, you know, after this performance and this dirty crap that he did in this movie, he doesn't deserve another gig, you know?

SPEAKER_06 1:04:47

Oh, come on. That's not necessarily entirely his fault. Like, you know?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:52

Yeah, you just took it too far, buddy.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:54

I'm stunned. I'm appalled. I I'm speechless. I'm still gonna say fact.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:00

So this one is a fact. He left Axe because he wanted to focus on building a family. And he even ended up, you know, he got a family and he lives in uh, I think Massachusetts maybe, but he ended up as like a school principal because he's just apparently a wholesome dude.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:12

After the comments that Sean just made, and he went to start a family and is a school principal. Could you imagine?

SPEAKER_04 1:05:19

And you're on the PTA and you find out that this guy is a principal of your kids' school. How many times has this movie come back to haunt him? Is the real question.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:28

It's an interesting thought.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:29

Who knows? Probably all the time.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:31

Oh man. Well, however, he was so disturbed by the film and specifically his role in it, he spent most of the time on set alone and sought therapy after production wrapped.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:40

I would hope so. Fact. I mean, um that's so I'm going fiction.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:44

Going fiction.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:45

This is a fiction. Although he did spend most of this time uh alone or distant from the other actors on set. The therapy thing was something that was just made up. So several of the cast, however, described the environment on set positively and said that they enjoyed their time while making this movie.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:59

Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:00

And number five, the infamous scamsters the Warrens served as paranormal consultants on the film, and Father Adamski's character was altered to be more closely based off of Ed Warren.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:08

Well, I know I know. Like I know how they I know that they investigated this shit, or a I I believe, but I don't know that he is depicted as the father or whatever, so I'm gonna go fiction on that.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:18

Of course, you couldn't help it but f you know, throw in there the scamsters.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:23

The scamsters.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:25

Scam today before today scams you. It's fine. I'm gonna pretend like I didn't hear it. And I'm going to say I'm gonna say fiction.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:35

Indeed. Uh this is a fiction. They were consultants, but the character was not made to be more like Ed Warren. It is interesting though that you have paranormal consultants in a movie being ba made based off of a book written by a parasychologist. The whole thing just wreaks scam to me. Nonetheless, that's been fact or fiction.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:55

Well, there you have it, folks. Scams aside, our ratings for this movie are no scam because the Amneeville 2 the Possession has earned three slashes and one hack. Now we certainly had a robust discussion here, but it doesn't end here by any means.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:10

We want to know what you think. What is your polarizing opinion on some of the lovely scenes that are in this film? Let us know. You can join in on the conversation by hanging out with us for free in our Discord. Click the link in our show notes to sign up.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:24

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SPEAKER_04 1:07:35

We'll see you next time, folks, and remember, it's gonna be alright. Take it easy, kid.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:39

Yeah, nobody will be guilty of anything. The devil made him do it.