275: The Boogeyman (2023)

SPEAKER_03 0:04

The Boogeyman has haunted my family for 40 years and evil dies tonight? Greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hack or Slash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. Are you like buying drugs or something? If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack.

SPEAKER_04 0:26

A total joke? A waste of time.

SPEAKER_03 0:28

Or a slash. Totally killer. Pun intended. We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, we're writing these movies with the perspective we've gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast. This week I'm joined by the classic horror connoisseur Sean.

SPEAKER_04 0:44

What if I accidentally swallow it?

SPEAKER_03 0:46

And the paranormal paramour Binks. Just trying not to die, thanks. This episode is brought to you by our friends at Creepy Creek, makers of the horror and true crime subscription box filled with spooky collectibles, macabre accessories, and terrifying goodies. And speaking of creepy, this week we went back to the theater to check out a film inspired by a Stephen King story about a familiar childhood monster. In 1973, Cavalier magazine published a Stephen King short story that followed a man consulting a psychiatrist about the deaths of his three young children. Deaths he feel could have been prevented had he believed in the existence of a monster that has haunted children for generations. The story, later published in King's 1978 collection Night Shift, grappled with themes of adult guilt and fears, specifically those related to parenting and the safety of children. This week's film takes things a step further, boasting an intricate fabric woven with grief, family, and the struggle to be understood. The film explores the lives of a teenage girl, her younger sister, and their father, each grappling with a profound loss, and a cryptic presence that's made itself at home in the walls of their own house. And this week we're talking about The Boogeyman. What were you all expecting going into this?

SPEAKER_01 1:51

So I had heard of Stephen King's The Boogeyman, but I hadn't actually read it until after seeing this movie. I expected this to do obviously like a better rendition of The Boogeyman and all of its other versions that exist in media. And I also I obviously like just didn't really expect it to be a full-on copy of the short story either. But one thing's for sure, I was definitely anticipating some gnarly jump scares that would for sure get me because I am unashamed to admit this, but I am insanely afraid of the dark. I don't even know why I decided to watch this movie back to back. One time I watched it at night, that was a terrible idea, and then I watched it earlier today in the daylight. Better idea. But I have to say, even the second time around, I was expecting it to not scare me as much, and some of them jump scares still got me. They still got me, y'all.

SPEAKER_04 2:40

Yeah, that's fair. I I I have not seen any of the other various Boogeyman films that have released over the years outside of the 2005 Boogeyman with the dude from Seventh Heaven.

SPEAKER_00 2:52

Terrible, but uh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:54

Yeah. I know, I know. Just going off of that movie, I did also read the short story, but also like you Binks, it was after watching this film. So really the expectation that I had was also that it was going to be filled with some good jump scares, that evil lurking in the darkness. Uh, it it could easily also fall into the category of just another generic horror film. So I don't I was I don't know if I was what I was expecting. Like I want it to be really creepy, really dark, and really cool. It's also PG 13, I believe, so you just never know.

SPEAKER_03 3:30

See, generic is exactly what I was expecting. I don't remember seeing very many trailers for this. I remember experiencing it a couple times, and I really liked the artwork of the film, and there's a young girl in the movie who has like this spherical orb of light, and I remember that moment very distinctly. But aside from that, I expected this to be a more polished, a more refined darkness falls, so to speak. I'll say that this movie is another movie that managed to make me feel a lot of intense things. It really blends a lot of creepy moments with some deeper emotions that maybe I want to just keep locked away for a little bit. But I think above all that, it does a really good job of creating atmosphere and immediately showing you the stakes are pretty high because when this movie opens and what it opens with, I was like, damn, bro. And it has plenty of things that are creepy, spooky, and chilling, but I don't think it leans so hard in that direction that it would be difficult for you to get your non-horror friends into, right? Like this PG 13, it seems pretty palatable and uh accessible to the masses.

SPEAKER_04 4:32

Yeah, I I think a hundred percent. This one really came out guns blazing in the first couple of minutes, and then that title hit, and it really just set the tone for the film. I was admittedly a little bit worried after that opening scene because the pace slowed down a little bit. I don't want to say it turned into a slow burn during the during the the next, I don't know, 40 minutes or so, but it really felt like a really dark, really heavy film. To your point, Chris, and and I think you said it while we were watching the movie. This one felt like a better version of Darkness Falls. So yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_01 5:10

But where's the bar with that, if we can be real honest? You know, is the is the bar already like, you know, pretty pretty low when it comes to Darkness Falls, or I not that I'm disagreeing.

SPEAKER_03 5:21

Remember, I like Darkness Falls. When you think about what you felt watching Darkness Falls for the first time, not you specifically, but like the general you who really enjoyed that movie in the early 2000s. It was a spooky movie that really preyed on the darkness and the shadows, and it had a very young, vulnerable child at the center of the film and a couple people who were trying to thwart this threat. So the suspense was there. When you think about the bar of things, I mean, sure, it doesn't take much to make it better, but I think it does do quite a bit to take something as silly as being called the boogeyman. You know what I mean? Like there's a lot of room for error there.

SPEAKER_04 6:00

Well, I mean, it's already a a step above just being called the boogeyman because there really isn't anything scary about the fucking tooth fairy.

SPEAKER_01 6:08

And there it is. Okay, yeah, that's true. I think when I was watching this movie, I I definitely felt shocked at the very first couple moments. I remember like gasping. The second time around, I still was like clenching my teeth just a little bit because I obviously knew what was coming, right? So that's fine. But um the pacing overall was at a great speed, in my opinion. So I was I was hooked in the whole way through. I think obviously I talked about the jump scares, nailed it out of the park, I was shitting bricks, so that's fine. And as anticipated, I'm watching this in a theater that's fully in the dark, about a movie where something in the dark's gonna get you. It was bound to happen. But one thing that I didn't feel, which I think is pretty interesting that you guys have brought up already, is like there's a serious undertone of like grief. Um the the plot I think is trying to be just very serious overall. And it didn't r really fully crack my my heart, you know. Like I maybe I'm just stone cold, but I I wasn't really buying in, and I've had my fair share of loss literally in just the last two months. So I don't know what's going on with maybe me, but I just didn't fully buy into it. I think it was a little forced, right? And actually that's kind of what was my disappointment that I think there was a lot of potential for this movie to really get deeper, get more sinister almost, and like take this premise that King did with his short story into high gear. Even though I read this short story after having watched it the first time, I still kind of felt like what is missing from this movie when I first watched it. And now having read the short story and then I saw it again, I was like, maybe that's it. I just wanted it to be like a lot grittier and a lot harder. But then again, I guess something I didn't acknowledge, honestly, is that it is a PG 13 movie though. So there's that. But funny that we're talking about Darkness Falls, maybe the other like missing piece of the puzzle for me is like this movie was just giving 2000's plot, you know, brought with a modern day budget. Because the thing about 2000's movies is that they all try to be pretty like deep and meaningful, but now we watch some of them and like, oh, this is just simple, you know, it's not not much to it. There's no like meat and potatoes to this plot, and that's maybe what this film was giving. And it's not a bad thing, just I don't know, maybe that's what I'm I'm piecing together right now.

SPEAKER_03 8:36

I'm gonna have a lot more to say on that subject, specifically when we break down the originality of the movie, but I am more surprised that you didn't feel literally anything. But again, maybe it's just I'm in a very raw place and you're further along on this journey than I am, because man, that shit got me. It got me. I was crying. Yes, Sean saw me cry. It was an absolutely absurd bundle of emotions, and I think it was more effective doing that for me than a smile ever was, for example. I was really surprised and really pleasantly surprised by the performances that we get in the movie, because even though I was going in expecting generic, I think it was those performances that kept it from feeling completely generic.

SPEAKER_04 9:20

Yeah, I see where you're coming from, Binks too, but I think where the difference is in they took this early 2000s vibe or whatever kind of backbone of a story that they would have used in the early 2000s for a horror film. But I think the difference in this one, and maybe even the difference in what is coming out now, is there just seems in all the ones that we've been reviewing, and granted some of them aren't new releases, but like it feels like there's just a lot of family grief subjects that we're that we're diving into. And and so I think that makes it a little bit more heavy. But I was actually surprised at how invested in the film I actually was, again, like you, Chris, thinking it could be a generic film, but the characters, like while the overall recipe was kind of generic, the character development for me was done really well. I really felt for some of these characters. I thought the way they told the story, even if it was on the verge of being a slow burn film for me, it was entertaining and it kept me invested. I was also surprised by this, and it's not a spoiler, but there was a moment where there were three words said that I never expect to hear in a horror movie, and that was I believe you.

SPEAKER_01 10:44

Yeah, that is fresh. Well, I'll tell you one thing though. I need everyone to believe me when I say that these jump scares will get you if you're afraid of the dark. That's for sure.

SPEAKER_03 10:52

Okay, I really want to unpack this because I didn't find anything in this movie scary, but I for sure thought it was creepy. I love the way they play with the darkness and how you can see some things in the f in the background compared to the foreground. There's some glistening eyeballs every once in a while that fucking got me. So I felt tension, but I really want to know what was it about it. What was it about those jump scares that got you? Bruh.

SPEAKER_01 11:16

What? What do you mean? Yeah, if I saw two glaring little dots in my closet, I'd be f fucking screaming, that's for sure. I mean, first of all, I've also seen Midnight Mass. That recently, and not to spoil anything, but there's a little bit of that, and it's not fun. More importantly, I should have maybe led with this, is like Rob Savage is to me one of the better directors when it comes to jump scares. I loved host, and I saw that in the daylight, and I was terrified. I almost fell off my couch when I watched it, and it was like 12 p.m. So I think for him, the way that he does jump scares where they're just so rapidly fast and he doesn't overdo it is extremely effective. So there are scenes in this in this movie where it's kind of in that method where you don't necessarily anticipate it, but it happens so quickly. I don't know. I I it just wow, I'm shocked that it didn't scare you at all. Like it didn't even get you, not once. I was too busy being sad. Oh, and I was too busy not. I'll tell you one thing though, I I was here thinking that maybe you know, being a part of this podcast, and like obviously I've always loved horror, but watching it so frequently, I was gonna be like, eh, it's not gonna get me. And it still got me, and I'm like, I still got it, I still got the fear. You are not numb. I'm not numb entirely.

SPEAKER_04 12:35

It's not a bad thing. It allows you to at least be uh immersed into the movie, right? And I I think while this may not be super frightening, I guess for lack of better term, horror fanatics like us, right? I I can definitely see this one being frightening for the average horror viewer. The film is going to play off of the things that frightened you as a child. There are some decent jump scares, there's some great playoff of the lighting. I can see people wanting to keep the lights on after this one. We talk about like gateway horror films, and to me, this is actually a really good gateway to horror film or horror films, in my opinion, because it's not too light on the horror, and it's also lacking the depths of some really intense horror films that play off of your psyche.

SPEAKER_01 13:20

Right, which again, when thinking of these main characters and their children, especially the the younger one, right? Sawyer, man, when I was her age, absolutely I don't trust what the heck I'm seeing. I don't I can't make my imagination is running wild. I can't make sense of what I'm looking at when I look at the closet, all those other things. So watching this film, I I think it just brought all that back. And granted, I admit it, I'm very afraid of the dark, so I still have those issues to this day as a 30-year-old woman. But again, watching this movie and kind of putting myself in the shoes of the little girl, I'm like, oh yep, I remember that. Not fun. And I contemplated buying some of the accessories that she uses in her room because they're effective.

SPEAKER_03 14:02

I mean, hey, you gotta protect yourself however you find fit. You know, watching uh so much of this closet action really threw me back to how amazing it was to have my personal boogeyman Michael Myers in a closet in the 2018 Halloween, and I just kept thinking, damn, that babysitter deserved better. Let's talk about it though, because we've talked a lot about how this movie feels reminiscent of other movies. And in reality, folks, like if you haven't seen this movie yet, there isn't a lot in here that you're gonna find so incredibly different. This movie is Smile Meets Megan, meets lights out, meets Darkness Falls with a dash of pennywise from it. And the reality is it's the boogeyman, it's monsters in the closet, it's monsters and creatures under the bed. We've seen these things before. We've also seen people haunted after a traumatic event and having to escape the clutches of a supernatural evil that's hunting them down. None of this is the first time you're gonna ever see it in a movie, but personally, I don't think it's a bad thing because while it didn't do it first, I think in many cases it did do it better.

SPEAKER_01 15:08

Because that's my thing. I I agree with a lot of the references that you made. I also thought of them like they're glaring, especially smile. I even wrote it follows in terms of the lore that that it it describes as well. Like I just think in general that this movie didn't necessarily uh add anything new to the genre, but it's it's not bad. I don't think that's a bad thing, like you're saying, it's just nothing new, which is okay, it happens.

SPEAKER_04 15:33

Yeah, you don't have to reinvent the wheel to be successful, that's for sure. And and while it's not getting full originality points by any means, because yeah, it is a new adaptation of Stephen King's short story, which has already been made into a short film and reimagined. But what I think they did well was telling the story in a new and modern way, and they did take when, you know, after reflecting on the short story and and seeing like where all of this kind of you know came to be, uh they did a good job really trying to figure out how they can add more depth into the story and really tell it from a different point of view. And I I was worried at first it was gonna feel much like the 2005 Boogeyman, but they aren't really the same, and uh it felt fresh, so I'll give it some originality points just for that aspect.

SPEAKER_03 16:24

You know, some other points I want to give it are points to that ending because it was cathartic, it was suspenseful, and it cleaned things up pretty nicely for me. I had no complaints.

SPEAKER_01 16:33

Yeah, I'll say it was a great culmination of all of the feelings and themes and a little bit of action all at once. I mean predictable, but I I enjoyed it. I thought it was a really good time, and also the best visual effects. I'm not gonna explain why, but I was a big fan. Big, big fan of that.

SPEAKER_04 16:50

Yeah, there really is nothing to be mad at with the ending. It gives you some intensity, it gives you some feel-good moments, it gives you a little something ominous at the end, which I really enjoyed. It's it's it was overall a pretty successful ending.

SPEAKER_03 17:05

Well, let's go ahead and see if that translates well to its rating. Now, before we actually score this movie, Sean, how would you describe the gore score?

SPEAKER_04 17:12

Okay, well, this is the boogeyman we're talking about here. So we know that the boogeyman lives in the shadows, in the dark, if you will. So with that, you don't really get to see a lot of the gore from the kills in this one. It's also PG 13, so they had to tone it down a bit, I suppose. But either way, this one is easily getting a low gore score.

SPEAKER_01 17:32

And what about the animal report?

SPEAKER_03 17:34

The boogeyman does not hurt animals, so we're all safe. Well, let's go ahead and get into our ratings then. The boogeyman from 2023, was it a hack or a slash?

SPEAKER_01 17:43

You know, after my first watch, I was actually really torn on how to feel about this film because I I think I went in hoping I would be frightened, but expected a deeper sense of plot and dread and horror, like I talked about. And even after reading King's short story and watching this film again, I can see the potential. I said it earlier, I can see where it could have gone darker, but I do need to keep in mind PG 13 Bianca, PG 13. Everything can't be dark and gloomy. So it's fine, you know. That being said, although it didn't really change the game and the genre, and it certainly wasn't a standout king adaptation, in my opinion, it is entertaining and effectively frightened both me and the audience both times that I saw this movie. And I can see how I would definitely be scared for sure if I was watching it by myself or at home. So, look, not every horror movie has to be groundbreaking and all that, and I can see how it's definitely ripped uh some some influences for sure for horror movies now that are going on, but it really did give that nostalgia of the simple 2000s horror film plots, and I love 2000s horror films, so it's a slash for me.

SPEAKER_04 18:51

Nice. Yeah, I gotta admit, I was worried about this being pretty basic, but I found myself really enjoying the story in this one. Again, Chris, you said it, it is a better version of Darkness Falls. I was invested in the main characters, I was rooting for them at times. I loved the play off of the lighting and the shadows throughout the film. The pacing changed tempo a couple of times, but overall I had a good time watching this one, and I'm gonna give it a slash.

SPEAKER_03 19:17

Yeah, I'm hard pressed to find anything offensive about this movie in terms of its quality. It has a great cast, and I think really the ability to have characters that make you invested in them and rooting for them and not against them. It really created an experience where I had none of the frustrations that I had watching Smile, for example. This movie may be standard fair, right? It's a PG 13 film. It's not gonna scare the daylights out of you unless maybe you do have a specific phobia of the dark and closets, so to speak. But the reality is that it takes a piece of childhood lore and does something impressive with it. And how many times could you really expect to have a good movie called The Boogeyman? For it to be in the same realm as Michael Myers, I'm not mad at it. And for that, it gets a slash. Now, with that, the Boogeyman from 2023 has earned a universal slash. You can find this movie playing now in theaters, but if you're listening to this post-its theatrical run, you can click the link in our show notes to find where you can find it streaming now. We'll see you in a bit.

SPEAKER_01 20:44

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SPEAKER_03 21:55

Welcome back, folks, to now entering the spoiler zone for the boogeyman, which has earned a universal sled. We have a lot to unpack here, but before we get into the specifics of our ratings, let's go through the kills.

SPEAKER_04 22:05

We have a total of five kills in this one. Granted, not much is really seen, and two are completely off-screen, but five nonetheless. So let's dive into him. What were your favorite kills?

SPEAKER_01 22:17

Well, I'll say R.I.P. to Lester, because you know, he was just out here trying to go to therapy. Yeah. Try to do his best. I don't think he necessarily knew what he was doing. But oh debatable.

SPEAKER_04 22:31

What what was he? I don't know. Like Alright, alright. Maybe he was seeking help, but also that was pretty intense. Like he he he went and hung himself in. Did he hang himself?

SPEAKER_01 22:42

Oh for sure, the the boogeyman hung his ass. The boogeyman hung his ass, but let's talk about it. Hold on a second, because But why the fuck did he go in there? Thank you. My curiosity is okay, actually, hold on, let's let's dive off just a side bit. We're gonna veer off just a little bit. There are plot holes in this film, okay? Let's get into it later on, but I will come back to it. One being this moment, where he went into that room, the mom's art room, where there are clearly massive windows and they are drawn up. Like what happened there? That you were then drawn into the closet and got murked by the boogeyman. Like you caused a ruckus yourself in that art room and then said, Oh, I think he's in the closet and and got snatched.

SPEAKER_04 23:24

Like I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 23:25

It didn't make sense. The boogeyman would have not left that closet and ran around and messed up that art room because the windows were drawn open.

SPEAKER_03 23:32

Yeah, but in reality, he and his wife pretty uh pretty unstable given all the loss they've had. Oh yeah. Who knows if he was trying to fucking contend with a boogeyman from the room and just like fucked up the room.

SPEAKER_04 23:43

Maybe. Intentional or not, he still brought that fucker into the house, so screw that guy.

SPEAKER_03 23:49

Yeah, I guess that's true. I guess that's true. I don't know. I was just like, man, yeah, you feed a stray cat once and it never leaves. He fed the boogeyman in that house.

SPEAKER_04 23:57

This is probably on brand for me, but the little fucking baby in the beginning is definitely the best kill because it's the most shocking and it set the whole tone for the whole fucking film. I was shocked. I think you were right there, Chris. I was like, what? We both were like, are you serious?

SPEAKER_03 24:13

Yes, okay. Far be it for me to want a baby to die in a movie, Sean. But holy shit, that one was the most impactful because it was also the most fucking sad. Yeah. The movie opening was so intense, and the whispering voice, so spooky. I know. Calling to that little precious angel, she knows something's wrong. She's crying for her dad, she's crying for her parents, and the boogeyman is calling himself daddy. Disgusting and also fucking horrifying. That poor little precious angel. I won't say she's my favorite kill, but I will say that was the one that made me feel the fucking most. Yeah. Fairy code though goes to Lester's wife, Mrs. Billings. Because listen, she was trying to channel her at Lori Strode. She was trying to channel the boogeyman is haunted my family for 40 years and evil dies tonight. It didn't really work out for her. But you know what? She got her, she got what was coming to her. Yeah, snapped in half.

SPEAKER_04 25:08

Yeah. She tried. I'll give it to her. She definitely tried. She she went down fighting, so you can't really falter for that.

SPEAKER_03 25:15

Listen, yeah. It was a great effort, but she did use that girl as bait. So you probably could have just like you know, asked for some kind of level of consent. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 25:23

Could have what? No, get out of here. No, could have what? No. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do, okay? You gotta do what you gotta do because evil dies tonight, all right? And that's it. Yeah, evil dies tonight, but not at her hands. Yeah, well, it was an attempt. And it was an attempt that obviously did not work out for her because she's the one that got snapped in half. I will say that in the second watch that I just had earlier, I stared at the at that scene and I looked to my mom and she was like, oh my god, what's gonna happen? And I was like, come on, mom, you know that monsters like everyone knows, right? Because we know the principles of things, which is you gotta double tap. And she like thought that she double tapped. No, you needed to like quadruple double tap, like make sure that that fucker is dead. And how is there all this fire? And you don't think to to use it in that moment?

SPEAKER_03 26:10

Chekhov's fire. You fucking say that fire has existed was one of man's first inventions and first weapons, and you don't think that that's what you should fucking use? Fire fire fire power. I'm gonna use guns to solve my boogeyman problems. What? No, fire!

SPEAKER_04 26:25

That's America. That's America right there. Yeah, no kidding. He's my guns.

SPEAKER_01 26:30

But I will say, Boogeyman's demise at the end, or supposed, I guess, demise was pretty cool because those sisters were like really, really tag teaming it. She threw that little spray can or whatever, she caught it instantly, she threw that lighter in slow motion. It was giving.

SPEAKER_04 26:46

It definitely was. I I'm surprised at how quickly that can ran out of juice, though. I feel like maybe they used like a a quarter, a quarter tank hairspray can.

SPEAKER_01 26:57

Again, plot holes, but whatever. I digress. Who said it was a full can to begin with?

SPEAKER_04 27:02

Well, that's what I'm saying. It just sucks, you know? It just sucks.

SPEAKER_03 27:05

What a shame they didn't have a fresh stock. Clearly, they don't go to Costco or BJ's. You could have had multiple cans.

SPEAKER_04 27:10

I will say though, just going back to the intensity of that, of that um little toddler or baby dying, like in your talking, Chris, about like crying out for help, I think once you read the short story, you're gonna feel even more around that whole scenario. And you probably hate Lester even more because there was an insane amount of neglect that led to the demise of that family. And man, it's just so sad.

SPEAKER_03 27:40

If there's anything we know about a horror family, it said the father will always be neglectful in some capacity, and now I think I'm gonna tap out of opting into that short short story. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_04 27:52

This doesn't make it any better, but it was like intentional neglection. Yeah, like he's like, I know I could do something about this, but this kid needs to get tough.

SPEAKER_01 28:02

Needs to get tough and needs to learn, and then dies. But here's but here's my thing. This is where I was hoping now having read the short story and I then I saw it again, I was like, oh my god, this would have been fantastic. Like, granted, probably not all about Lester, like not everything about Lester should have been adapted, but something to that effect would have been really great. Like, oh yeah. Okay, I'm not always about the flashbacks, right? But I think it would have been really cool to continue to see a little bit of that in how they went down because the whole other child we don't even necessarily get to see, supposedly die of SIDs and whatnot. So it I think it would have been a cool opportunity to get a little darker and and deeper because the neglect in the short story is out of hand, but clearly a theme, you know? Yeah, worst dad of the year award.

SPEAKER_04 28:51

Maybe who knows? Listen, if they chose to if they chose to incorporate more of the short story into, I guess, I don't know if it's the middle of the movie, but when Lester goes into the house to, you know, do that impromptu therapy session and starts talking about what was happening, just like in the short, then they could have done those flashbacks and kind of dove into some quick scenes on what happened to his family, and that could have been pretty effective.

SPEAKER_01 29:19

For sure.

SPEAKER_04 29:20

And I don't think it would have taken too much time. Like, yeah, it might have extended the movie another, I don't know, 20 minutes, but it wouldn't have been too much, I don't think.

SPEAKER_01 29:28

There are other scenes that I think we could have done without that to me were kind of like, ugh, waste of a moment. But I completely agree.

SPEAKER_03 29:37

You know, Lester's design as a whole, I was not a fan of. For some reason, I looked at him and immediately thought Robert Pattinson's Bruce Wayne.

SPEAKER_04 29:46

Oh my gosh, I was about to say fucking Batman of some kind, or in the Batman universe.

SPEAKER_03 29:51

It was emo Batman, and I wasn't a fan of that. But I will say that was one of very few shortcomings in terms of the visuals of this movie because I fucking loved the design of the boogeyman and the closet work in this movie. There's nothing scarier than a door that's slightly ajar. Okay, and that's where I'm like, how are you gonna tell me that you weren't afraid at all? Because it wasn't my door that was slightly ajar. It's fine. Ugh, whatever. In my house, we close all the doors.

SPEAKER_01 30:19

Same. And if all of a sudden a door was slightly ajar, I'd probably leave my whole home.

SPEAKER_04 30:25

I mentioned it already, but I really enjoyed the way they played off of the lighting throughout the film. And it's kind of touching on what you said, Chris, with the the, you know, just the closet work and just the way that they had even the boogeyman moving through the shadows in the darkness, just seeing those eyes peering out of the darkness was really great. Even when the light is going in and out and it's getting closer and closer. See, that is also where it makes it better than Darkness Falls, because Darkness Falls gave you too much visual and not enough dark, like play on the darkness and the shadows.

SPEAKER_03 31:02

Yes, yes. And can we just say one time for Mr. Boogeyman himself, who, like his cousin the Bobaduck, chose to come out of a closet, except the boogeyman came out of his closet in Pride Month. Happy Pride Month, Boogie. Good job.

SPEAKER_04 31:17

I I even enjoyed the subtle reflection of the boogeyman in the TV screen as Sawyer's like hiding on the couch. Like just the it it was so intentional the way that they allowed you to see the boogeyman, and it was never like, yeah, you got some direct shots when he when it got up close or whatnot, but it wasn't that much, and just most of the time it was just very subtle, and you actually had to look for it.

SPEAKER_03 31:41

Yes. Oh my gosh, the long hallway when Sawyer is holding her orb and you see the boogeyman just lurking behind her.

SPEAKER_04 31:51

Yep, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 31:52

That was terrible, terrible, terrible, so good. But again, it reminds me of when I was a kid in my grandparents' house and that their trailer, that long hallway, any long hallway will always fuck me up, no matter what. And I really am considering getting that little orb, the little moon orb, because it's genius. And and she's she's a genius, just like rolling that thing around to be able to see light as you go. Smart. Wish I had that thought.

SPEAKER_03 32:19

Okay, no, I I have to contest this because it was effective under the bed. I get it. Poor girl hurt her shoulder, hurt her mouth, she fell out of the bed. I get it. But I'm sorry, when you choose to roll this thing down the hallway and then it banks right, yeah, you have to go get it.

SPEAKER_04 32:37

Poor decision.

SPEAKER_03 32:38

It's not remote controlled. And now you have to go get it in a doorway, which you have not personally seen. The boogeyman could be right over there to the right.

SPEAKER_01 32:46

No, okay, but why would you go get it if all of a sudden it bent to the right and you didn't control it? If anything, that's my sign to be like, oh, nope, not going there. But then where's your light source the rest of the movie, babes? Are we are we are we gonna get into that? Because I mean that was Genius with a moon, but there were other light source scenarios that just made zero sense to me.

SPEAKER_04 33:06

Oh yes, oh yeah. We're gonna we're gonna get into those for sure. But you know what would have been really effective in this movie? A fucking headlamp.

SPEAKER_01 33:14

That would have been the moment. Going back to Boogeyman though, super quickly, his design as a monster was so incredible, but it reminded me of this video game Until Dawn. It's one of my favorite video games. Like the the Windigo's that happened, it was similar as hell to that. Like the creepy, I don't know, thin, crawly nature of it was a vibe. Loved it. And then obviously, in a way, it reminded me of Smiles like Lollipop, like the the monster from Smile. That jaw unhinging was spectacular. But then also the fact that there's something within it that is just holding the face. I don't know, I wasn't anticipating that. It was really good, really, really good.

SPEAKER_04 33:59

I also want to talk about the red light therapy session, which was visually really cool, but also one of my favorite scenes because and we were we were talking about it in the moment. The therapist face was fucking creepy as hell. That was the scariest part of that whole scene. I wasn't afraid of the fucking boogeyman coming up from behind the kids. I was afraid of the therapist's evil ass fucking grin standing over them in the red light.

SPEAKER_03 34:27

And let's be clear, she has a beautiful smile, but ma'am, sit down, stay down. No need to be moving around.

SPEAKER_01 34:34

Wait, wait, so you guys thought it was fun. Wait, sorry, wait, hold on, hold on. I'm actually shocked. So you guys thought it was frightening. The theater laughed both times that her face showed up. They just started broke into laughter. Both times that I saw this movie, when she shows up in that scene, everyone lost it laughing, including myself. I didn't find it scary at all. I thought it was hilarious. It was like, it almost broke the intensity for me because it was like, why does this woman look like she's having a time of her life right now? Yeah. Like it's she looked like she was so happy. Like, it's working, it's doing great. While Sawyer is falling apart, peeing her pants. Because, like, same, I would be too. That's what makes it scary. I don't know. The theater disagreed both times.

SPEAKER_03 35:13

I thought she was smiling to encourage, but I didn't feel find it frightening. I just thought it looked fucking cool, and I felt bad for this girl. And I'm like, bro, sit your ass down. Like, you don't need to be standing up to prove your point. I think maybe even the lack of motion would help show her that nothing is happening in the dark. But no, I don't think there was any laughter in our theater for that scene.

SPEAKER_04 35:35

There wasn't any reactions at all in our theater, to be honest.

SPEAKER_03 35:38

Yeah, there was like a little bit of laughter, like when Sawyer would say something funny, but that's about it.

SPEAKER_04 35:43

Sure, sure, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:44

Oh, no, no, no. There's a couple times they laughed, but this was the main one where that be they broke into laughter both times. But I I gotta agree, Sean, this is my favorite scene for sure. Because at least aside from that moment that kind of killed it for me, just the smidge or didn't really kill it, right? It was just funny. I thought it was so, so, so good, so visually beautiful. I resonated with sort of the most in that moment because I would have been falling apart. And honestly, we've talked about it a bit a bit in the podcast, right? I'm very deathly afraid. Like I wouldn't say deathly afraid, but it doesn't, it feels like death to me when I hear the song from Insidious. And so I kind of think of the premise of like that exposure therapy a bit, and how this movie kind of talks to you a bit about facing your fears and like confronting them head on. And then the undertone of that is like facing the fear of being alone or grief, right? So I think that was a great way to tie that all in. But on a super fashion level, I was like, man, if I had to basically be in a room where they were playing that song constantly, I also would probably pee my pants. So, you know what? It's a vibe. I I get it. I see you, Sawyer.

SPEAKER_03 36:54

Man, okay. So speaking of being alone and being alone in the dark, I'm gonna go with my favorite scene, which is the one that had me the most concerned. Because for as much as you may go into this expecting some level of plot armor for the core family, Sawyer scared the hell out of me. And I really thought from the first time that she got nabbed by the boogeyman underneath the bed, I thought we were gonna have like the ghost of Sawyer this whole fucking time. But when she is in the living room after Sadie's friends storm out from the sleepover or the little party, and she's playing in the PlayStation, the boogeyman is there, and throwing her around the fucking room. Yeah, I was so scared for her life. Not like in the frightening way, but I'm like a I'm gonna walk out if Leia Organa dies. My little baby Leia, I'm gonna I'm gonna walk out.

SPEAKER_04 37:41

Yeah, you don't want that to happen. She's too precious. It was a wild scene, and that was, I mean, it's just the whole intensity of even that happening and how it was lurking around, and she could see the reflection, and you're super scared. Think about being that age and that fucking happening to you. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 37:56

No, what what's actually fucked is why was this little girl playing with no lights downstairs in the living room? Why would like I that's the part that again, another plot hole in this fucking movie. This woman just literally got terrified, got you know, uh ran for her money in the dark, seeing all kinds of things numerous times, and then thinks it's a great idea to be in the live left in alone in the living room playing PlayStation, like same, that was also me, but I had all the lights on in the living room, despite playing a video game.

SPEAKER_03 38:29

Good for her though, for figuring out which button makes the screen brighter with a certain action, and then using that to see if the boogeyman was there.

SPEAKER_01 38:37

Yeah, no, she's she's smart for her age, for sure. I just think like, I don't know, I would have anticipated that she also, for being so smart, would have had other light forms with her because that living room was darker than her actual bedroom when she hangs out there or falls asleep. So it just didn't make a lot of sense to me. After she had already confronted and seen the boogeyman, I think twice at that point. So seemed sus. Seemed a little sus.

SPEAKER_04 39:04

This is true.

SPEAKER_01 39:05

But you know what? We did talk about the father, we can kind of get into him a little bit. That's another negligent motherfucker, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_04 39:13

You know what? It's tough with the father because at first I also was like, yeah, no, this guy, fuck this guy, look what he's doing, he's neglecting his kids. But then it's also I I start to realize that like it's he's dealing with grief too. Like he lost the love of his life, and now he's left to try to take care of two kids by himself, which he never even felt 100% prepared for on his own, and having to deal with them grieving too, and it's just hard. And I get it, he's a therapist, and he's like bouncing his daughter off to another therapist and not even acknowledging wanting to talk to her, but like I kind of see both sides. I'm not necessarily erring on his side by any means, but I can see where he's coming from a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 39:58

Yeah, it's very much the concept of in order for you to help the person beside you when you experience turbulence on the plane, you have to put your mask on before you can put anyone else's mask on. And this motherfucker had no idea how to get his own mask on. It seems like maybe there was a concern of like if he were to talk about this with his kids, he's not in the place where he's processed it yet, where he's processed it yet. And I wonder if he had the concern of being too clinical with his kids, which then he overcompensated and went the extreme opposite direction, which was to not acknowledge it at all, which is not healthy. So, I mean, I'm not saying he was great, but I am saying it was an interesting dynamic between the two of them, and I'm glad we got the resolution we did with them as a family to all get to the point of talking about it. But I think that was the shit that made me feel this the most because I get it, like the constant pressure of like, you need to talk about it, you need to talk about it, you need to talk about it. You're like, I'm not fucking ready to talk about it yet. Chill out. Only, you know, maybe you have to be a little bit more open when you have children who are experiencing the same fucking thing you are, bro.

SPEAKER_01 41:04

Yeah, because I like the analogy that you put in terms of putting the mask on yourself before you help others. It's not even that he knew how to put the mask on, it came off like he just didn't want to put the mask on and say, like, as someone in the profession, I feel like they would know the consequences of something like that, though. Because like you actively are choosing not to deal with this, knowing that it would potentially affect your children. And I like this particular scene where Sadie is talking to her father and trying to get a little bit deeper, and he instantly shuts her down and is like, Did you have your therapist appointment tomorrow or whatever, right? And she says that she wishes that she could have just talked to him or like she was trying to talk to him. Like it's it's so sad, and it's a good opportunity to think about like grief affects the person, and it's hard to also take care of other people when it affects you. But I just feel like there's a responsibility there as a parent, though, as tough as it is.

SPEAKER_03 42:03

For sure, there's a responsibility, but you know, parents are imperfect, and I think there are so many times, you know, even myself growing up that we don't really talk about mental health. It's like a whispered word. Or we feel like we have to talk a little bit lower if we talk about anxiety or depression or panic attacks. Uh so I think this is not a good scenario, it's not the ideal scenario, but it certainly is, I think, one of the better examples we've seen of a family coming together to get through something.

SPEAKER_04 42:33

Yeah, absolutely. I I think, you know, just as I said before, like the character development was kind of really good in this film. Like it really allowed for some relatable moments and to really be invested in the family's fight for survival and really invested in seeing their being able to reconcile and and and bring the bring the family back together, if you will.

SPEAKER_03 42:54

I tell you what, though. Can we get a little shout out for our girl Salem, who was the medium and host who helped them with the seance, and then she was in the instructional video that said he was looking at on YouTube.

SPEAKER_01 43:07

That's where she's from. Oh my god, both times. And I was like, Man, who is this woman? Yeah. I may even try to pay attention to the YouTube description the second time around because I was like, I need to discover who this woman is.

SPEAKER_03 43:20

What I do want to see is on a second watch, is if it is the same exact name, I want to see if it's a continuity link between host and the boogeyman. Like, do these exist in the same universe? Since she's a medium or clairvoyant in both. The Rob Savage Cinematic Universe. That'd be incredible.

SPEAKER_01 43:36

I'm here for it.

SPEAKER_04 43:37

But also, I feel like Sawyer had some really funny moments that made me laugh out loud a little bit, which was a good thing to really cut the intensity in this horror film. But she also had some moments where she expressed some really impressive fear and terror on her face. I was genuinely impressed, and I I can't remember exactly what. Which scene it was, but she was horrified, and I was fully bought into that.

SPEAKER_03 44:05

Oh my gosh, bless her little precious sweet baby angel heart. I will watch anything that this girl was in a hundred percent. I think she has an amazing career ahead of her. She's so expressive, but she really did a great job of balancing that comedy, just like you said. When someone can be so vulnerable, but also so smart for their age, you know what I mean? So witty, so present. I really adored her and I'm so glad. Like this movie had it been rated R and gotten a little bit more intense, maybe it would have killed one of the sisters. I'm really glad that wasn't the case. I could have maybe landed with a dead dad if she if one of the sisters was 18. But I really think she was such a standout in this movie. And I'm sorry, when she had the wherewithal to grab the Christmas lights and wrap them around herself, so good.

SPEAKER_01 44:54

Okay. Plot hole number 5400. Because how is it that the house has no power to turn on the s the lights, but yet the Christmas lights are working?

SPEAKER_03 45:06

Maybe it's not about power. Maybe the boogeyman broke all the bulbs. Maybe it's just those electrical sockets.

SPEAKER_04 45:12

Maybe.

SPEAKER_03 45:13

I think you're finding you're reaching. My disbelief is suspended. I don't find the need to poke holes in that.

SPEAKER_04 45:20

I okay, I could see both sides of that. Where I where I had faults in this Christmas light thing was how she even had the time to run an extension cord throughout the entire fucking house to get to the closet. That is the one thing that went through my head. Not not the power thing, but that was good. But it was literally like, how the fuck did she get this fucking extension cord all the way in there without dying?

SPEAKER_00 45:45

Look at look at us Virgos. Us Us Virgos are like powering up. We've just like fist button, we're just like ready to tear all the plottles to shreds.

SPEAKER_03 45:54

Listen, she said that obviously she saw her dad get dragged down to the basement and the boogeyman had this guy. Sadie was able to walk into that house unarmed and unbothered, unfazed. Like she was obviously concerned, but she wasn't under any immediate threat. I imagine the same thing just happened for Sawyer. Like the boogeyman named her dad and then ran out, and she was probably rushing around, but also the boogeyman just wasn't grabbing her because he already had her dad.

SPEAKER_01 46:19

You sound like the boogeyman's lawyer.

SPEAKER_03 46:22

If that's how it's gonna be, that's how it's gonna be. But I again, nothing about that distracted me from the vibe of the movie.

SPEAKER_01 46:29

You know what not distracted me, but quite frankly, pissed me the hell off though. And it didn't like kill the vibe, but I wanted to kill these freaking girls. The the blonde or whatever. Fuck those girls. Oh, the school friends. Oh my god, the school friends were such they were the worst, such trash beyond anything I've ever seen. Especially the best friends. I'm glad she told her when was the last time we hung out? What? My mom's funeral? Not a good friend. Sorry. Yeah. Toss her to the right. Especially if you are still associating with someone who made comments like they did when she had just come back from her first day of school, or like from from obviously grieving and whatnot. It's her first day of school, and tries to pull some shit, put like shoves her into the locker, and you still want to be kikiing with her. That's not a friend, that's not even acquaintance. I say again, fuck those girls. Oh my lord, I couldn't believe it. The gaslighting, the insanity. I know. And here's another thing though, I will say when she got slapped, I was I could have burst into applause.

SPEAKER_04 47:36

What a good slap, too, man. It just that sound just rang.

SPEAKER_01 47:40

It rang right into the veins. I loved it. I loved every bit. I really did. But if this was a rated R movie, I would have loved even more for the boogeyman to have gotten her somehow when she was like going down the stairs because again, it was dark in the living room. It would have been real cool. I would have I would have continued to sit in that theater and watch this movie for a few more minutes of just like complete terror just to fuck that girl up.

SPEAKER_03 48:04

Um be real, it didn't even have to be rated R for that. That's a good point. They could have padded the body count.

SPEAKER_04 48:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:10

That whole friend group. You're right.

SPEAKER_04 48:12

They could have. Man, that would have been actually really good.

SPEAKER_03 48:14

Really, the only thing is it would have really created a problem with legal responsibility. It was gonna create some long-standing issues if that family had to also deal with the death of those girls in their house.

SPEAKER_04 48:26

True. Where were the fucking police when these gunshots are blazing through this house in this nice little quiet neighborhood? Just that ridiculous. I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe it. I was like, no way this shotgun just going off willy-nilly and there's no fucking cops coming to check it out. That's crazy. Or at least a phone call to the cops. Jeez.

SPEAKER_03 48:44

Okay, speaking of this fucking shotgun ringing out, listen, this movie is pretty good. But the worst part of it is Rita Billings channeling her inner Lori Strode, Evil Dying Tonight, and the movie expecting us to believe that Sadie would be able to hear after the gunshot was fired so close to her or not be hit with any of the shell.

SPEAKER_01 49:03

Okay, but hello. I'm thinking to myself, why is Sadie acting so chill after a freaking gun, just a rifle or whatever the hell it was, just rang right next to her ear, and she's like, Oh, I guess I'm gonna have some friends over. Ha ha ha ha. Which by the way, the theater also laughed at that quick cutscene between like them having the stereotypical, like, oh my god, hi, and then went straight to the nothing's going on.

SPEAKER_04 49:26

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:27

They also lost it laughing.

SPEAKER_03 49:28

I mean, that was a funny moment, but listen, it's because the actress who play Sadie has seen much worse in Yellow Jackets.

SPEAKER_01 49:35

Yeah, I guess that's true. You know what? You brought it up, so I'm gonna say my worst part, which is all of these plot holes. I think there's a lot of questionable things that you have done a great job of trying to defend Chris, truly, but I'm I'm still gonna say that they're pretty shitty. But regardless of that, this is where the 2000s-ness comes in, right? Because 2000s movies notoriously also have some ridiculous plot holes and like things that suspend your disbelief for sure. So it's it's a good thing, I would say, for this film, ultimately.

SPEAKER_04 50:05

Yeah, I think for me the worst part really is that we just didn't get to see more of the kills, or just maybe more kills. I don't know. I I to to your point, Chris. I think if the dad were to have died, I think that could have been pretty heavy. But I also think, like, just talking through this now, like if any of those school friends died, I just think there was an opportunity to you could have maybe snuck one or two more kills in there, but you also could have shown a little bit more of the kills. Uh yes, granted, that may have brought it out of a PG 13 realm into a rated R, but like, man, really, you're out here making horror movies. I'm not out here trying to make PG 13 horror movies. I'm trying to make a horror movie. Whatever that comes out to, that comes out to. But yeah, I don't know. I did, however, love that the mom showed up in that final battle with the Zippo lighter flame. Like, that was kind of a lighthearted moment that I was like, oh, okay, this is this is a nice little touch.

SPEAKER_03 50:59

Listen, I've been playing a lot of Tears of the Kingdom lately, and I was like, yeah, we summoned that fucking sage. We summoned the sage and she's joining the battle. And honestly, it was a great moment. I was so happy for the mom, thank you. But as much as I loved seeing the mom join that final battle, I do think it's gonna make it a little bit tougher to watch emotionally. I need some time and space for this movie before I watch it again. But I simply must because I need to figure out if this is the Rob Savage Cinematic Universe.

SPEAKER_01 51:28

And I wish I had conferred with you before watching it earlier today, because I could have done that for you. But oh well, yeah, no, I've obviously already seen this movie twice in the the span of three days. So I'm gonna take a beat. I'm gonna take a beat for sure. But I I do see myself watching this movie again in the future, right? Like I enjoyed it. It wasn't necessarily the greatest Stephen King adaptation by any means, like I said, but I had a good time, so we'll see it next year. We'll see it next year.

SPEAKER_04 51:56

Yeah, absolutely. It's not something that I'm gonna necessarily put into my regular rotation, but I wouldn't mind watching this one again. I actually kind of want to watch the rest of the Boogeyman films, and I know they're not all related to each other, but I want to see what they're all about. I've only seen the 2005 one, and I don't remember that one being super great. So, in fact, I think we read the synopsis out loud after the movie, Chris, and it literally sounded exactly like Darkness Falls.

SPEAKER_03 52:21

Yeah, it really was. Well, I can't wait to see how you fare on your boogeyman rewatch. I think I'll stick to Michael Myers for now, but for now, there you have it, folks. The Boogeyman has earned a universal slash. While we've certainly had a lot to talk about here, it doesn't end here by any means.

SPEAKER_01 52:38

We want to know what you think. Were you afraid of the boogeyman? Whether it be as a child, after this movie, let us know. You can join in on the conversation by hanging out with us for free in our Discord. Click the link in our show notes to sign up.

SPEAKER_04 52:50

And if you've enjoyed listening to us dive into the depths of an age-old childhood fear, consider becoming one of our patrons. Visit patreon.com slash hacker slash to enjoy more of the show with early access, extended episodes, bonus content, and live shows.

SPEAKER_03 53:05

Thanks again to our friends at Creepy Crate for their support of Hacker Slash. We'll see you next time, folks, and remember, there's no such thing as monsters.