278: The Others (2001)

SPEAKER_04 0:04

Man, nothing like some Catholic guilt and like some shame to be talking about the four hells as a mother to your children. Cause that sounds about right to me.

SPEAKER_01 0:18

Greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hackerslash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. Are you sitting comfortably? Then I'll begin. If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack.

SPEAKER_05 0:32

A total joke, a waste of time, or a slash. Totally killer. Pun intended.

SPEAKER_01 0:37

We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, we're writing these movies with a perspective we've gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of beer we fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast. This week I'm joined by the super fly space guy Mac.

SPEAKER_05 0:51

If you see a ghost, you say hello.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

The classic horror connoisseur Sean.

SPEAKER_05 0:55

You can't make me ask the virgin for forgiveness.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

And the paranormal paramore, Binx. Whoever took the curtains wants to kill my children. This episode is brought to you by our friends over at Creepy Crate, makers of the horror and true crime subscription box filled with spooky collectibles, macabre accessories, and terrifying goodies. And speaking of creepy, the people have spoken and our patrons have decided we're covering a chilling tale that actually reigns as the fourth highest grossing Spanish film of all time. In the Twilight of 2001, director Alejandro Amenavar gave us his first English language film, a horror mystery thriller that plunges viewers into the shadowed recesses of the human mind. The film uncovers the story of a mother and her two sunlight sensitive children who live in a constant state of nocturnal seclusion. As they struggle to navigate their lightless world, they become gripped by the terrifying belief that they're not alone, that something unseen is sharing their home, stirring the silence, and roaming the empty halls. This week, after winning 76% of the overall patron vote, we're turning down the lights and peering into the hidden corners of the others.

SPEAKER_04 1:57

So this movie was nominated by our patron Amber. She says, I absolutely love this movie. It's so creepy and unsettling without even really trying. It's one of the most atmospheric films I've ever seen. And I love how the ending pissed me off and broke my heart at the same time. Even though Nicole Kidman was huge at the time, it doesn't have a big movie film to it, making it a great and unique horror film. I would love to hear everyone's thoughts on this one.

SPEAKER_01 2:23

Well, you're in luck, Amber, because it's about that time. Who's seen this one before?

SPEAKER_05 2:27

Oh man, I have actually seen this one a lot. Probably at the very least six times or so for sure. Like I own this one on DVD. Unfortunately, that DVD is shoved in a storage unit somewhere, so I had to look really hard for this one.

SPEAKER_04 2:42

Yeah, I also have seen this one a few times, but ironically, before now, I had just re-watched it literally in January as a part of like my top 100 horror movies. So I've already seen it twice this year. So let's see how many more times I can see it this year by the end of December.

SPEAKER_06 2:59

Okay, I truly swore that I had seen this. I was like telling my wife about the movie, going, Yeah, you know, that one with Nicole Kidman. I think I've seen it, yeah. And then I started watching it and realized I don't think I've actually ever seen this movie.

SPEAKER_01 3:08

Wow. Nice.

SPEAKER_06 3:09

Nice.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

I just had a similar moment with talking about this movie with my girlfriend, and I was like, Yeah, yeah, you've seen the others, right? The one with Nicole Kidman. She was like, Oh yeah, the one where um and she says something vague. She's like, What was it, what was the whole thing again? And I said the twist ending, and then she was like, No, I haven't seen that.

SPEAKER_00 3:24

I'm like, fuck, I ruined it. Oh no. Damn.

SPEAKER_06 3:28

I realized though that I think just based on the title alone, I was thinking of the invasion, which is you know, invasion of the body snatchers. Yeah, yeah. Very different movie, definitely similar to Nicole Kidman, though.

SPEAKER_01 3:37

Yeah, you know, I've seen this movie before back when it first came out, and I realized this is the last movie I have seen Nicole Kidman truly star in. Like I know she was an Aquaman, but like we don't think about Aquaman as a Nicole Kidman movie, right? This was the last time because I don't know that I've ever even really seen Moulin Rouge in its entirety. I've seen the songs.

SPEAKER_00 4:01

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01 4:02

I've seen performances, like clips of the performances, and I love the soundtrack, but I've never actually watched the movie. So, you know, this movie has a semi-special place in my heart. But going into this one, I really expected for this to feel like a slow burn, like a boring time, because I feel like once you know the twist in this movie, you can't watch it the same way twice. But I was actually pleasantly surprised that there was more to this movie than I remembered. Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 4:29

I think when I watched it earlier this year, I had been expecting a little bit of nostalgia because it had been a substantial gap actually since I had seen the movie, and maybe about two or three years in between. But I was looking forward to like a fresh perspective because it's true. Like once you know the twist, obviously you're watching a fresh movie. You've got a different set of eyes, you're looking at different things, so I was expecting a bit of that. And even again, watching it now, like it something still caught me by surprise. I I it's really good, it's always a fun rewatch at the very least.

SPEAKER_05 5:03

Yeah, I'm a sucker for a good ghost story, and this is easily one of my favorites. I I loved watching this one. I I feel like it hits every time. I I would expect for this one to have some genuinely creepy moments, subtle, sure, but creepy nonetheless. Like it's one that having not seen it before will keep you on your toes. Like it keeps your mind going the whole way through.

SPEAKER_06 5:24

I expected something very different. I expected a like very 2000s tame level of ghostly spookiness, something like 13 ghosts or skeleton key, something that's not quite horror, something that's a little bit more thriller.

SPEAKER_01 5:36

You know, I would hope for a little bit more thriller, but I think the reality is that this is another entry in the Scared Mother Wanderers Haunted House, you know, kind of ghosty shit. There is no shortage of horror movies that can be vaguely described as this movie, but really going into this and and watching it the whole way through, I felt a lot of tension. And that's weird because I've seen this before, right? We know how this movie ends, and I think perhaps its ending is one of the things it's known most for, but it still feels like almost like a well-kept secret because I'm I'm surprised how many people I'm still meeting who have never seen this movie before. And I will say that this movie it pulls at your heartstrings a little bit, but it really balanced that emotion against some really quality scares. So I didn't feel too stressed out the entire time.

SPEAKER_04 6:27

Yeah, you bring up such a good point about watching it or like still finding people that have never seen it, like you, Mac. Like, that's it's always so fun because this time around I re-watched it with one of my closest friends, and it was similar to what you guys were saying. Like, I was like, Hey, have you seen the others? The one with Nicole Kidman. Yeah, yeah. We started, and she was like, wait, I haven't. So literally same scenario, Mac. And the feelings I had this time around, obviously differing from January, was like excitement, just like staring at her and like seeing, you know, is she getting it? Is she not? Like, oh my God. And all the while still feeling the feels uh for the overall theme, but it was it was just a fun rewatch with someone who hadn't seen it. And I've never experienced that before with this movie.

SPEAKER_06 7:10

Yeah, you know, I had, I don't know, I had kind of a different thing going on. I I think it definitely feels more thriller than horror, that's for sure. But yeah, there is that feeling of like mystery, and to me, that was so easily figured out early on. And so I didn't get that massive surprise or massive shock. There's like a couple things early on that made me, because you know me, I'm gonna, I'm gonna try to figure things out as soon as I can. And there's a couple lines that are said, there's a couple things that are like hovered over a few times where I was like, oh, I figured it out. But the movie, it's you know, it's very like low stakes. So even though there's like tension, you don't feel overly stressed. You don't feel like some movies where you're like, I need to stop watching this movie. You have like a little bit of tension to keep it going, it still feels compelling enough to see it through to the end.

SPEAKER_01 7:53

Well, I can say the least surprising thing about this movie is Mac figuring it out, I guess. Gemini being a Gemini, he just wouldn't be very fun to watch this movie with.

SPEAKER_05 8:03

I was just gonna ask that too. So it's funny that you say that because I don't know. I I'm trying to think back to when I first saw the movie, and I don't think I picked anything out in the beginning. So I was just I was literally gonna ask you, was it obvious for you? Because the feeling, the first feeling that I had when I watched this uh back, it it's like I could see the subtle signals having watched it several times, but I don't know how obvious that would be for somebody never have never watched it before, right? And I thought back to when I first watched it, and I I genuinely think, granted, I was young, whatever, but I I genuinely think that I did not get it the first time around. But I also I also think that the score really plays well into the effectiveness of this film. It's really it it feels like it's so quiet. It's so quiet, which allows you to hear like all of the sounds of everything that's going on in the house, the footsteps, the various noises of the house, whether it's like the creaking floorboards or or whatever, and then the score kicks in and gives you those jump scares, and it still sometimes gets me.

SPEAKER_01 9:07

You know, I find this movie to be one where like the ideas are more scary than what the film actually executes. Like it for sure is tense, right? And sure it may feel low stakes, but I think the subject matter of this movie, you know, it manages to make me feel a little bit more invested, despite the fact that it's a period piece, and I'm not really fond of period pieces and horror. It's really just not my sweet spot. I can take period pieces outside of that, but I mean, The Witch is famously like one that was like an exception for me. I was able to really get into it. But I think the one thing that really disappointed me is actually the very beginning of the movie. And listen, this is gonna be a little nitpicky, but jokes on me for wearing fucking headphones watching this movie because we get a great opening, and then the first thing we hear from Nicole Kidman besides the opening narration is her shrill scream. Man, I feel like I lost more of my hearing today.

SPEAKER_04 10:04

Jokes on me, because that's what I was most surprised about and what I love the most, is that scream. I think that scream is like so layered with the context of the character. Like it's it it sets the tone, it like wakes you up, it sets the atmosphere, but then when you discover who Grace is, like Nicole Kimmons' character, you go back to that moment and you're like, oh, that that could mean a lot of things. That scream could be layered and be a lot of signals to a lot of things that actually happened in the movie, personally.

SPEAKER_06 10:33

It's just kind of great though, because Sean and I were talking earlier about the audio, and like we start off with that that shrill scream, and then they just whisper for the next hour, 40 minutes.

SPEAKER_00 10:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 10:42

So it's it's it was it was hard to hear until I put headphones in, then it was like a much better experience. But the thing that surprised me the most, oh boy, the cast. The cast was a shock to me. Because I didn't really look at who was gonna be in this movie aside from Nicole Kinman, but I was very surprised to see Doctor Who slash the leader of the Dark Elves, Christopher Eccleson here, loved it. He was so young, it was so weird to see it, and I loved it. I was also pleasantly surprised to see Fanula Flanagan, who plays Mrs. Mills. She also plays Dr. Juliana Taynor in a Star Trek Next Generation episode called Inheritance, season seven, episode 10, during which she's revealed to be Data Okay, so first of all, Data the Android. His creator was married to this woman. So basically she was like his mom, except he lost his early memories and he had no idea. But wait, it gets even more interesting because we get Michelle Fairley, better known for her role as Catelyn Stark in Game of Thrones. Like, what is this cast? It's amazing.

SPEAKER_05 11:34

Yeah, I think I'm I was genuinely surprised, and I know I kind of talked about it earlier, but I was genuinely surprised at how effectively creepy this movie is, despite having seen this one multiple times over the years. I was surprised, even knowing everything that happens in the movie, how I was still able to get creeped out while watching this movie. It still gets me every time, and it and I love that about this movie. And so when we talk about how frightening this movie is, well, I don't think this is necessarily the scariest film that I've ever seen, but it's definitely not the least scary film either. I think this one is just a really good ghost story. It gives you the creeps, that chilling feeling that you used to get when telling ghost stories around the campfire.

SPEAKER_04 12:18

Absolutely. I think it's just the right amount to give you the goosebumps, like you're saying, and you know, kind of feel like, ooh, what is happening? A little unsettled, but not in an extreme way. Which makes I feel like this movie a perfect one for anyone to digest. Like funny enough, uh, when I was watching it, I had taken a picture on my Instagram story, and some of my friends that don't like horror movies, this is one of their favorite movies of all time. So just goes to show you that this is a perfect movie for anyone that might want to dabble in the genre, that's a fan of the genre, etc., to to get into for sure.

SPEAKER_06 12:50

I think if you've ever been in a big old house, and I mean both a big house and an old house, they are scary enough on their own simply because they make their own noises. And you can be in one room three stories up and hear something from the basement, and you're like, I don't know what that is, and I really don't want to go find out. So when you when you set a movie in a house that's like that, even if the movie itself is not super duper scary and has like crazy effects and gore and all that kind of stuff, there's that there's that vibe, there's that spookiness that comes into it that's effective.

SPEAKER_01 13:22

You know what I find incredible though? That this movie, despite being okay, let's say set way further back, this movie takes place just post World War II. This movie is still more tense and more impactful with its, I think, capacity or potential of fright than let's say the haunting that came out two years prior. Like this did so much more with so much less. And I know that the haunting is like on paper supposed to be a scarier movie, right? A lot more jump scares, you have actual stakes in that movie, you know what I mean? Like, I think when we compare the violence or the deaths, like the body count in each movie, the haunting should be the clear winner, and I think the atmosphere of this puts it above that, which I think is refreshing and actually reminds me back to the version from the 50s.

SPEAKER_00 14:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:11

And I think it feels more like that classic haunted house story. So while not entirely original, I do think it has like a really great twist while paying a lot of respect to like what a true core of a haunted house story is.

SPEAKER_05 14:26

I like that comparison a lot. I agree a hundred percent. I I I honestly can't say though that I have seen this exact concept in any other movie. There might be one out there that I'm thinking of now that just hit me, but I'm I'm not gonna bring it up because I don't wanna we're in the spoiler-free section. But the this one is definitely original to me. The the way the story is told, the layers and the depth to the story, it's just really good stuff, and it still holds up to this day.

SPEAKER_04 14:52

I gotta say, if I were to think of like the 2000s, this is 2001, it's very early in that very infamous decade of horror. But like I guess the the plot, the twists, the themes is very fresh considering. Like, I again I understand that like it's the early 2000s kind of like kicked it off, and it has some reminiscence to some movies that I'm sure we we might be aligned with later on in the spoiler zone, but I still think it's very, very fresh. Like, I can't think of any of the early 2000s movies that kind of land with the plot twists and what they were trying to evoke with such very little fright, aside from this one. But that's just me.

SPEAKER_06 15:35

I think it's pretty clearly related to a like a really big movie from a couple of years before, and I'm sure when we get to the spoiler zone, we'll we're gonna talk about that maybe once. But I think overall it it seems similar to other shows and other movies that we've seen before. Some of them come after, though, and so maybe they were inspired, but I don't think it really matters in this case. There's like that whole recipe thing here. Like the other movies don't have Nicole Kidman doing her thing that she does in this movie, they don't have the other, you know, the rest of the cast of characters here, and there's there's an overall just like feeling in this particular house with these particular people in it that I think is different enough from other movies to kind of stand alone.

SPEAKER_01 16:14

It definitely stands alone. I think for me, this goes down, and I would say like top ten best endings of a horror movie.

SPEAKER_05 16:22

Top ten.

SPEAKER_01 16:22

Wow, I think top ten for sure.

SPEAKER_05 16:25

Yeah, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 16:25

Like it's just a really fucking good ending in terms of just payoff, right? Maybe to some, it may not be the most exciting thing to ever happen, but I think for what you put in to what you get out, there was some return on your the investment of your time. And I think it's one that still holds up.

SPEAKER_04 16:42

Look, you could be an extreme sleuth and kind of pick up on things pretty quickly, aka Mac.

SPEAKER_01 16:47

Or just be Mac, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 16:48

But even then, there may be some people that are they think that they know, but then they don't, and like that's what I think is so again unique, especially for 2001. You know, like this is not like correct me if I'm wrong, but like the early 2000s to see such like thriller plot twists and horror, I not necessarily like very big or very common. And when I think of plot twists, I feel like the others is always or the endings, the others is always mentioned somehow, some way in the conversation. If people know of it, of course, but I gotta agree with you, Chris. Maybe I I might say top ten too.

SPEAKER_06 17:22

I thought it was a satisfying ending. I just felt a little bit dissatisfied with Nicole Kidman at the very end. I think we lacked some drama, some like real emotion that I had expected. I expected some like things to go kind of go off the rails with her character. It was a lot more tame than than I really thought was going to happen. In terms of like figuring it out earlier or whatever, I actually think it's a story that's really enjoyable when you know what's going on the whole time. Because the journey itself from start to finish is so very interesting.

SPEAKER_05 17:55

Yeah. Well, maybe that's why I like watching it so much. But yeah, I agree. I I absolutely love the ending to this movie. I I'd have to think pretty hard if I would put it in the top ten, but I do really enjoy the ending. I love the progression of the third act leading into the ultimate ending, and I gotta say, yeah, overall, there's nothing, there's nothing that I would change.

SPEAKER_01 18:15

Well, let's see if all this praise translates favorably in this rating. But before we score this movie, Sean, how would you describe the gore score?

SPEAKER_05 18:22

Oh, there is absolutely no gore at all in this one. It really it really didn't need any, if I'm being honest, but nonetheless, this one is getting a below sea level type of low gore score.

SPEAKER_01 18:32

And what about the animal report? Completely safe. Alright, well, let's go ahead and get into our ratings. Then the others from 2001, as chosen by 76% of our patrons, was it a hack or a slash? And let me just kick things off here because I think there is a lot to say about this movie, but very little for me to say in in my rating. This movie is clean cut, it's atmospheric. Nicole Kidman is Nicole Kidman ink, and I think it's just high quality all around. It really managed to be a movie that has a lot of sad shit in it. And you know, really it gets you invested in the characters, and maybe it's just, you know, our consecutive string here doing some sad movies where there's really some family trauma or grief in some way, as Sean has pointed out in previous episodes. But you know, there's just a little bit of magic here. And despite how I how raw I've been lately, I'll say that heartbreak feels good in a movie like this. It's a slush.

SPEAKER_04 19:34

Oh, that was good. That was good. You had to. Yeah, look, I also it's it's kind of hard to give a scoring because you really kind of want to spoil things and get into the weeds of it, but you can't. So I'm like, I have to restrain myself. I said it earlier. I just think that this is such a great movie to kick off the 2000s, especially me that I truthfully love the 2000s horror scene. I think it's just fun and whatever. But if there's anything to at the very least that we can kind of get into without spoiling anything, it really is the performances and not just of Nicole Kidman, because yes, incredible. Let's shout out the children, y'all, because they were incredible. Supporting characters, incredible. They stand out to me without really having to have so much dialogue. And I think there's gotta be like something to be said about a movie that can do that and be such a good time. It like raises the hairs on your neck, you're kind of wondering, you're curious, it's got the ambiance, and ultimately, there is a reason why people re-watch this movie time and time again, even though they know the plot twist, and it's because every time is a good time, so that instantly makes it a slash.

SPEAKER_05 20:42

Yeah, as I said before, I love a good ghost story, and this one does not disappoint the level of quietness throughout this movie, allowing you to listen to only the small sounds of the house, then bringing the amazing score into the mix, allowing for some genuinely creepy jump scares. It really also allows you for you to be fully invested due to all that stuff, and and it really takes you on a slow and uncomfortable ride, and it still gets me every time I watch it, and it's one that I am sure I will continue to enjoy for years to come, and for that, it's a slash.

SPEAKER_06 21:17

Alright, so first of all, I mentioned earlier that I kind of felt that this was more of a thriller, like a horror thriller or whatever. Uh so Amber, don't be insulted by that. But I I actually really enjoy thrillers, and I think this firmly lives in that world. It's not trying to give you nightmares, it's not silly, it's not super grotesque, it's in this like really approachable sweet spot. The acting lands from kid to elder thespians, and the set is perfect. The story is interesting, yet kind of low key enough to be overall satisfying. Honestly, overall a slash.

SPEAKER_01 21:47

You know, we love a universal moment. It's good stuff. We do. Well, there you have it, folks. The patrons have spoken, and we have spoken as well because now the others from 2001 is a universal slash. You can find this movie in your local D. Collection, probably good luck finding it streaming, but in the off chance it's now streaming by the time you've listened to this episode. Check the link in the show notes to see where you can find it. Check out that movie, then join us in the second half so we can unpack these ghosts together. We'll see you in a bit.

SPEAKER_04 22:20

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SPEAKER_01 23:43

Welcome back, folks. You are now entering the spoiler zone for the others, which has earned a universal slash. We have a lot to unpack here, but before we get into the specifics of our ratings, let's go through those kills.

SPEAKER_05 23:54

Yeah, while we don't really see any kills in this movie, that doesn't mean there weren't any. So we do learn about Grace, right, killing her two children after going mad and then killing herself. Then we know that the servants died in the late 1800s due to tuberculosis or something, I think they said, and then the sad death of Charles, her husband in the war. So we are gonna go with a solid seven deaths in this one.

SPEAKER_01 24:21

Which really is generous considering the fact that we don't see literally any of them die, but I it's fair at the end of the day. Although, in my headcanon, if you squint just right, Charles isn't actually dead. Charles came home and was just there to make peace, all sad like. Hence why he just stayed in bed, hallucinated his wife, and then just fucking disappeared the next day.

SPEAKER_06 24:44

That would be wild. That would be wild. Yeah, just another broken human being.

SPEAKER_01 24:49

Literally, even better. Just lying in bed with those teary eyes. Like, sure, in the movie he's haunted by war and what he did and all that stuff, but wouldn't it be even wilder when he has this realization of what his wife did? He goes home to make amends, to have closure after how many years away fighting in the war? I think that's something.

SPEAKER_04 25:11

Only he would have had to have told the family, like, hey, excuse me, I'm just gonna go and lament on your bed for a few days. If you can just excuse me, hey Victor, um, yeah, if you could just leave me alone for a little bit, I'm just gonna go and cry about my wife murdering my children. Fuck off, Victor. Yeah, fuck off, Victor, exactly.

SPEAKER_06 25:28

If only he were a state trooper and then ended up in asylum, then we'd be completely tied to Shadow Island. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 25:36

Well damn. That's all that's all it is. Okay, but can we take a moment to appreciate how fucking phenomenal it was when we got the reveal of how all these deaths happened?

SPEAKER_05 25:47

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 25:48

Specifically the seance table.

SPEAKER_05 25:49

Oh yeah. It was it was great. For sure. It was great, and it was wild. It was wild. I'm trying to remember like my first reaction to that, but even watching it back, it's still something that I I enjoy. Like I still get thrills from that scene.

SPEAKER_02 26:04

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 26:05

Such a better reveal than you would get in like other movies with similar twists to it because it just shows us what's currently actually going on, and we don't have to like have a character just talking to themselves and then reaching catharsis. It's like, no, no, you're gonna be forced into the truth right now, and it is it caught it caught me off guard. I had no idea that there was like a seance or that the old one we saw earlier was the one doing the seance and now it all adds up. Right. That was just like a great little moment.

SPEAKER_05 26:34

Yeah, but just just even the thought of your own mother suffocating you to death with a pillow is horrifying. Like that's that's so intense. It's it's so intense. And then to go and then have to do that to your children on the other side and then kill yourself. I mean, it takes a lot of cojones to shoot yourself in the head, and I don't think I could ever do it, but like, dang.

SPEAKER_01 26:57

Well, you famously would do any literally anything on this earth to live.

SPEAKER_06 27:01

That's true, that's true.

SPEAKER_01 27:02

It's self-preservation 101.

SPEAKER_06 27:04

Moms do often say, I brought you into this world and I can take you out. This is true, also.

SPEAKER_04 27:10

They remind you of it pretty frequently.

SPEAKER_05 27:13

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_04 27:14

If you're if you're real lucky, if you're real, real lucky. Moral of the story. I I gotta say though, even with uh, you know, the cojones to uh kill yourself with like you know, obviously shooting yourself in the head with a rifle and all that, but how fascinating that like from the very beginning. It's the it's the headaches, she doesn't like everything needs to be quiet, everything has to be like it there it okay, is that what you picked up on Mac? Because it's like, damn, all the signs were there from the very beginning. Like on the rewatch, that was the first thing I caught on to. I was like, holy crap! And then this is why I love the scream because I almost wonder like when she wakes up and she screams, is that her like realizing, like reliving what she did, you know, and then just suddenly coming back to this, you know, supposed, I guess, like world that she's playing, right? This character that she's playing that is not a mom that killed her children.

SPEAKER_01 28:06

Ugh, isn't like a really big bummer of a version of 50 First Dates, except it's just like 50 First Murders, and it's like you had to like relive this whole thing, forgetting that you actually killed yourself and your children until someone is kind enough to help ease you back into that memory.

SPEAKER_06 28:21

Oh no. Shout out to Mills. Yeah, I mean, there were other things that I think I also caught on to. So especially especially talking to the kids about limbo.

SPEAKER_00 28:28

Oh.

SPEAKER_06 28:28

Yeah, that to me was just like a oh, are we gonna have a sixth sense moment? Is this what's gonna happen? Immediately when when they started talking about kids going into limbo. It's like, oh, that means they're probably limbo this whole movie because it was 2001.

SPEAKER_04 28:41

And here I was thinking, like, man, nothing like some Catholic guilt and like some shame to be talking about the four hells as a mother to your children. Because that sounds about right to me.

SPEAKER_01 28:51

What a horrific fucking scare tactic for children. And I love that the director brings all this up and like is it inspired by his own Catholic upbringing, and now he's agnostic. Good job, dude.

SPEAKER_05 29:03

Nice, nice, lovely. I think the signals for me watching it this time were specifically some of the dialogue with the servants that come into the house. I think that was when it where they like I could see like kind of those signals coming out into the open. But then again, like I also think that also did something to kind of also throw you off course a little bit and and draw more attention to them and like okay, what's going on with them? What are they all about? And it took away, well, I think it was brilliant because it really took away from you trying to figure out what's happening with the family, and you're like thinking, oh, this is the antagonist right here.

SPEAKER_04 29:42

For sure. It's the it's the whole bit of like, oh, it's obvious that the servants are dead, and it's like, yeah, well, guess what? They are too, bitch. It's fun.

SPEAKER_06 29:51

I have the I guess misfortune of recently watching the British TV show Ghosts, not the American version. And so, like, literally within the last month, I've probably watched two or three episodes because I've kind of watched it every now and then. And so while watching this movie, I'm getting very similar vibes. And so when they started talking about things like, you know, the fog or like just like the looks they would give each other when she would say stuff, I was getting mad ghost vibes of the actual ghosts in that show.

SPEAKER_05 30:19

I haven't seen that show, so I gotta check it out. See what it's all about.

SPEAKER_06 30:23

It's hilarious. Just watch the the British version. I haven't watched the American version, but I can only assume it's worse.

SPEAKER_02 30:29

Typically is the case.

SPEAKER_06 30:30

Can I tell you though, there's some stuff that happens in that TV show where ghosts try to like affect you know the real world around them and they and they have trouble with it, and it's kind of points of comedy. In this movie, though, when we get the slamming doors, I love the way that looks because on a lot of times you get fast slamming doors right in your face with a really loud bang, and it just like blows everything up in that moment. But here we get those like doors that remain open, we pause, we look at it, and then it shuts. Or they leave it cracked when the piano opens back up. And so that was just like great execution because it wasn't trying to be like overly theatrical and like bam, we shut a door. Isn't that amazing? It must be a ghost. It was like, no, that door is shut. How did they get out? Looks over, the door's cracked. What fantastic choice. Because open doors creep me out. I don't know why that is. It's like a safety thing, but if you're ever in your bedroom and like your closet door is open, I I can't I can't stand that.

SPEAKER_05 31:28

My wife is the same way.

SPEAKER_04 31:29

Oh my gosh, damn Mac. I kind of wish you were on our boogeyman episode because it would have been so great to have someone who understands. I well, Chris too, right? You you don't like open doors. Yeah, I will not have an open door, not a closet door cracked open. If it if it even has like a small opening when it's like like a an accordion door, kind of like my closet, it needs to be fully like solid, shut completely. I can't see a sliver of black because I don't know what can go through those cracks. You never know. Won't have it, can't do it.

SPEAKER_05 32:02

Yeah, my wife is the same way with that stuff. I I don't have a problem with doors being open, but I what I will what I will say is I absolutely loved the lighting in this film. I think that the shots we get of Grace walking through the house with the lantern just added so much to the creepiness and the ambiance of this whole film. And I think, yeah, just just the playoff, the lighting is the is the best visual element for me.

SPEAKER_01 32:30

Man, the lighting is so good, and there's really just this beauty that's found in the candlelight and just like these flickering flames. I think my favorite visual though is something even smaller than that, and it's really just the beginning of the movie, specifically the opening credits, because ooh, the style of the art that we get, that those sketches, those drawings, there is something so eerie about decapitated angel marionettes and a screaming or scared child. Like it was fucking unsettling. I really, really appreciated that, especially against the sound of Nicole Kidman's voice. Mm-mm. Terrible.

SPEAKER_04 33:06

Yeah, definitely not pleasant. We're talking about the lighting a little bit. There's a particular scene that I think did it so well when the man is like hiding in the shadows and you just see like a smile in the corner. That was so brilliant, so great. But another favorite visual of mine, I would say, is like more with the makeup, how they did the children's faces, how they were like so white. I mean, I guess that was another I mean, I don't know if it was obvious, but it was intentional to make it clear that they were kind of like ghostly like, but also at the same time making it clear that they haven't seen sunlight in forever. So it's that duality of both things. Like when you rewatch the movie now and you see them so pale, it's almost like, oh, because maybe that's the little nudge that they're ghosts, you know. But I don't know. I think there's so many other things visually about this film that are cool, but shout out to the makeup department because I thought that was kind of clever to have that duality.

SPEAKER_01 34:00

How great that they finally get to play in the sun, though, huh? Yeah. And dancing along.

SPEAKER_05 34:05

Nice warm ending.

SPEAKER_01 34:07

Let me tell you, those kids were something else. And I think the the power of the emotions that they had throughout this whole film and was really heartbreaking to watch because at one point she was just the older sister who was like ter tormenting her little brother, but also wanting to be protective of her little brother. It was the fact that she remembers what happened and her little brother is in such denial of it. And it really just like even set me back to when we're talking about like Emdeville, right? How horrific it must be for someone you know and someone you love to turn on you in an insane act of violence. That's absolutely wild. For me, my favorite scene comes during that seance scene, and we talked about it a little bit ago, but man, how clever is it to see why the table shakes in a seance or the papers go flying, things like that. But really, what took it to another level was Grace's intensity and her denial, and then also the children's denial, even though Anne knows that, like she knows what happened, but she doesn't know in her heart what happened, right? You know what I mean? It's absolutely wild, and then you have that performance from both of them, right? Like there's a moment where they are revealing the fact that the servants are actually dead, and she says, Get away from them, don't talk to them, they're dead. And little Nicholas's face when he said, What?

SPEAKER_04 35:35

He was just so cute. Stop. I literally wrote Nicholas's what when it's revealed Mills and Total Are Dead was so funny and cute.

SPEAKER_05 35:42

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 35:43

Yes. Uh, it reminds me of my little nephew Nicholas, who's like a teenager now and isn't that a small child. It's adorable.

SPEAKER_04 35:51

Although I will say, you know, it's funny that you brought up that that seance and Nicole Kidden's performance there because Mac, I think you had mentioned earlier that you kind of wanted some more. And and I have to agree, I it was good, but I think I still wanna wanted a little bit more of an erratic behavior similar to the scream that we get at the very beginning of the movie. But here's the thing my favorite scene is actually, I've got a theory-ish, I don't know, about it, but when Grace is crying in the armor, holding, you know, Charles's jacket, the ankle that they use is so amazing because it's kind of like at a point where it's overhead a little bit and it makes Grace look so small. And it's kind of like her breaking point, which could be why maybe she doesn't necessarily lose it later on in the end, or or rather that maybe that's like a a choice, a writer's choice. But I think in that moment, that's where we get Nicole Kim and just like really letting go. Maybe possibly even Grace in that moment kind of realizing not only does she miss her husband and is extremely lonely, but also like we get a glimpse as to what Grace must have actually been feeling or how she was really like experiencing what she was experiencing when it was real life, you know, like before she killed her kids. I don't know. I thought it was a really clever like direction, art direction. I thought it was like great performance on her part. However, I do agree with you, Mac. I I think it would have been cool to see her really unhinged at the end.

SPEAKER_06 37:24

I just wanted there to be like a struggle before there was that catharsis, like mental struggle, not a physical struggle. Sure. And I think it's she kind of seemed to accept and remember things like really quickly. To me at least. It seemed just a little bit too fast. I just don't know. I wanted her to like be so shocked and appalled and then like battle herself until she realized yes, that is the truth.

SPEAKER_01 37:46

I mean, that would just would have made such a longer movie, and I feel like the movie itself was already her struggle. You know what I mean? Like she wasn't having exactly having a blast the whole time. Like she was subtly losing her fucking mind. And there were points where she was denying Anne, and then she gets to a point where she sees the old woman when Anne is possessing the old woman, but then she slaps her, and then she sees Anne, and she's like, Oh my gosh, what have I done? Like, there's so much internal conflict and struggle, and she's like on the outside very stoic and kind of keeping it all together because that is the charge that she's left with in the house while her husband is off at war. She you think about how hardened she is, and she talks about how this channel that they live on was occupied by Nazis and not a single one ever stepped foot in their house, right? And now someone's in the house, you know what I mean? Like, I I had no issue with the believability of her performance or even her feelings or how she kind of came to cope with it, because it sounds like she's just built different.

SPEAKER_04 38:43

But here's a question I'm gonna pose to the group here. Chris, do you feel like you could see that she was struggling throughout the whole movie and like that kind of buildup, that erraticness, all of those things that you were just saying, right? Like, do you think that you saw that because you've actually seen this movie before and so you know? Because I'm almost curious, like maybe Mac, you or rather, you've correct me if I'm wrong, but did you not necessarily see that because this is your first time watching it? So you don't really know that she's experiencing the whole length of the movie going nuts as a result of what she's done.

SPEAKER_01 39:15

I think she unravels throughout the movie, regardless of whether or not you've seen it before, because logistically there are just things happening in the movie, and you can see like her sadness for missing her husband. Yeah. Like she wears her, like Nicole Kidman, for for Grace being as hardened as she is, I think Nicole Kidman wears her emotions well in that role.

SPEAKER_04 39:35

I guess the the reason I ask is because maybe it reads as she's losing it a little bit because she is convinced that these things aren't like there are no ghosts, she thinks her children are messing with her, like she's just at wit's end. But it's like, okay, the the impact that you actually are the one that killed your kids, you would imagine is gonna be way bigger than all the things that you experienced throughout the duration of the movie. And I guess I and I'm not saying that I didn't see that. I'm just I don't know, I'm just trying to see a different perspective because my friend that watched it, she also had never seen the movie and she was still impressed by the ending, but she could tell that, okay, I guess I expected, you know, I g from from when I was watching her react to the ending, I you could tell that she was feeling like, damn, I thought she was gonna like really, really lose it now.

SPEAKER_06 40:25

That is that is the point that I had the issue with is the fact that she didn't blow up over that issue, the fact that she murdered her own children. Like she was, of course, like taken aback, but she didn't completely lose it in that moment. She like came to accept uh reality. So yeah, I think that part was a little bit too quick for me. Not the fact that at the very end she, you know, emoted perfectly fine. It's just like that one that one little item, the fact that she was a you know a murderer of her own children, didn't seem to hit as hard as it probably should have. But I think it they also kind of show us that even though they didn't know this stuff, they did know this stuff secretly down deep within them.

SPEAKER_05 41:05

They did know this stuff, and for a good portion of time leading up to that scene, there were like there was talk about stuff coming to light and like things like that. So I feel like, yeah, she didn't know, no, the truth hit her in that moment, but I feel like she was going through a lot leading up to that moment as it was. But I it didn't that I I can see maybe getting a stronger reaction. I can see that a little bit, but I definitely didn't really, it didn't stand out to me as something that I needed to see when watching the film. But when you talked about Chris, you talked about Grace like slapping Ann in the face, but it's the old woman. Okay, for me, that's arguably one of the best scenes in the whole movie. Like the entirety of that scene from start to finish of Anne playing in the dress in the veil, dancing around, pretending to be a ghost, not really pretending, and Grace coming, you know, to take off the dress and notices that old hand playing with the puppet and then moves in front of her, and it's just the old lady, and that one like creeps me the fuck out every single time I watch it. I know it's coming, and it still creeps me out. I love the scene, and it's even crazier because you initially feel creeped out because the old lady is in place of Anne, but really it was Anne possessing the old lady.

SPEAKER_01 42:23

Honestly, it's really fucking brilliant. And look, a lot of this movie is less about people learning things and more about people learning how to be honest with themselves about things. But ooh, when we get that click, when we get that revelation that these ghosts are just haunting the hell out of this house, and then there's actually another whole family in this house when you realize that the others are not the others as in the servants, but really themselves. Man, what a fucking moment. And I'm sorry, that old woman, creepy ass eyes, and it really this time around, I think I felt more of just like Anne's proximity to the old woman and how many times she's seen her because something that was lost on me the first time I watched it was when Anne had those drawings, and then the old woman had a significantly higher I've seen them count than the rest of the family.

SPEAKER_06 43:17

Yep. I think I have to go back earlier in the film to go to my favorite scene, and it is when we're led to believe that there's a ghostly boy haunting the children and they're in their room and it's dark. And of course, you know, sister's gonna tell her brother all sorts of crazy ghost stories just to mess with them, but when we get that subtle movement when they're both in bed and then we see a figure move across the room, that was a great moment. That was like almost to the point of like puking in the sixth sense. Oh yeah. Just a great little, just a great little moment of like it is happening.

SPEAKER_01 43:50

You know, Mac, I'm really glad that you bring up that scene and that you bring up Victor in particular because I really just want to take a moment to pour one out for the real heroes in this. This movie. And that is not necessarily Victor's dad, but Victor's mom. Back in post-World War II, we had a woman standing up to her shitty husband for moving them into a haunted house, and her saying, giving him the business, up until now we've handled things your way. Now we're handling it my way. Like, okay, ma'am, I love this for you. You got this dude to agree to leave the next morning. Fucking well done. That's effective. We haven't seen a performance like that in decades.

SPEAKER_05 44:29

Facts. Facts.

SPEAKER_04 44:31

Honestly, I feel like that was a sign of like, all right, this movie was in the 2000s, because there's no way. Like the writers were like, that's what that was the 2000s touch.

SPEAKER_06 44:40

I don't know, because you know, while he's maybe he was away at war and she was taking care of stuff, and then when he got back, she was like, Look, I've been taking care of stuff, we're gonna set some different ground rules here. Because there was there was definitely a a a good power dynamic, I feel like, in that relationship. I do wonder though, if when they moved into this place, if they knew that it was a murder house and they were like, We're gonna save some money, and then she caught him on it, or they like both had no idea. You know, and then like when they found out, they're like, Yeah, let's do a sans, let's try to figure out what's going on. Not not worth it.

SPEAKER_01 45:10

Yeah, give me the Amityville horror before the Amityville horror.

SPEAKER_05 45:13

Yeah, yeah. But you probably don't have to disclose back then, you know?

SPEAKER_06 45:17

Well, back then you just assume that like people died in there, yeah. But you probably don't assume that a mother murdered her kids. Right. No, this is true.

SPEAKER_04 45:23

That part. This is true. In a time of war, I would imagine, yeah, there's unfortunately gonna be a lot of death in the home, but not a mom smothering her kids.

SPEAKER_05 45:32

Yikes. I don't know why. I don't know why, and I'm probably gonna stand alone on this one because it's a really strange thought. But I don't know why I was getting some weird, like horror Wendy and John vibes from Peter Pan from these two kids. Like I just they I just connected them to Peter Pan for some reason. They just felt like they could just be plugged right in.

SPEAKER_01 45:52

Because they were out there with their fucking batas, their little nightgowns. Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_04 45:56

Like they fucking look like that era of kid, and they're super nice little black, shiny shoes and and beautiful, like perfectly bob dew with it's the great amount of blonde. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:11

I can buy into that. And we also know that kids go to Neverland and they never grow old because they're already dead. So there you go.

SPEAKER_05 46:19

That's true life right there. Well, that's a dark, a dark version of Peter Pan.

SPEAKER_01 46:23

That is just the version of Peter Pan. That's just that's just it is what it is. That's what it is.

SPEAKER_05 46:27

But Wendy came back, you know? Oh boy.

SPEAKER_04 46:30

Well, well, I have a fun fact about those two because I read this and I couldn't believe it. They searched over 5,000 children to find those two actresses for those two kids. Five thousand children? That's insane.

SPEAKER_06 46:44

That is a lot. I got a question though. What was it that they're like, these are the ones? Yeah, you know?

SPEAKER_04 46:49

I bet you it was the girl's sass. That girl probably walked in there and be like, you had to search 5,000 people when you could have just hit me up.

SPEAKER_01 46:57

And it was definitely Nicholas saying, What?

SPEAKER_04 46:59

What I agree, I couldn't agree more.

SPEAKER_01 47:02

His little scrunchie face.

SPEAKER_04 47:04

No, but for real, Anne was a complete savage from the start. She was like, Um, yeah, you see, the the Bible actually says this, or I didn't read this, so you're a scam. Um, yeah, you know what? This is BS. And duh, there are people walking around here. You don't see them, you're an idiot. Like, she was a modern day SAS queen, and honestly, can you blame her? I mean, her mom killed her, so true, true.

SPEAKER_06 47:31

No, no wonder she's gonna fight with her.

SPEAKER_04 47:33

Yeah, I mean, for real. I would.

SPEAKER_05 47:35

Yeah, that relationship got ruined for sure. I think both and I know we see Anne on screen a lot more, but I I think both Anne and Nicholas, yeah, they did phenomenal jobs. I think that they did really good, really a good job playing off of just the showing you the emotions of fear and like you know the brother and sister kind of arguments and teasing, but also being scared. And like you said, Mac, I think it was you like pr the protective but still teasing and all of that. And I think for the two of them for how old they were and to be able to do something like that and and just really add to the movie and not just be kind of like, I don't know, complacent through just kind of there, I think was really, really well done.

SPEAKER_06 48:17

I do have some complaints about people who were just kind of there, in particular Lydia, because I think Lydia deserved better than to not even speak the entire film.

SPEAKER_04 48:27

Okay, I was gonna say, don't do my girl like that. It wasn't her fault. But yeah, she was robbed of an opportunity to shine and speak, obviously.

SPEAKER_01 48:35

You know, women's voices were famously stolen from them for time and time again, so there it is. You want to think blame someone, blame the patriarchy. That's right.

SPEAKER_04 48:43

Technically, they say that she was so shook by the fact that they were dead that that was the last time she spoke. Yeah. And I mean, I guess that'll do it. If it's like, all right, well, I'm dead. I have nothing to say. Like, there's nothing to say.

SPEAKER_05 48:55

They had to throw that in there, so you had some some kind of an answer as to why she did nothing the whole movie.

SPEAKER_04 49:00

Yeah. I it's a cop out. That's fair.

SPEAKER_05 49:03

I mean, it is what it is, but you know, Mrs. Mills for me, she wa it was it it's a weird, it's a weird feeling with Mrs. Mills. It was almost like she was both comforting and creepy at the same time.

SPEAKER_06 49:15

Interesting. I mean, I I think that's probably on purpose a little bit, right? Because like she's always there, like always hovering just like a ghost.

SPEAKER_05 49:22

Right. And she's got this like motherly figure, like she's taking care of the kids, she talks to them, she's nice, but then there's these creepy moments that she has and these looks that she has. I don't know. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 49:34

But I think she gives those looks to Grace.

SPEAKER_05 49:37

Yeah, no, absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 49:38

Yeah, I agree. She has sympathy for the kids, and to Grace, she's like, uh, I just gotta put up with you. And I'm gonna bide by my time until you realize what you've done. Until she was basically like, All right, Tuttle, I'm over this shit. Let's go, let's rip the band-aid off for her.

SPEAKER_06 49:53

It is kind of interesting that Mr. Tuttle basically just like repeats stuff that she says, though. That's true. Like, I honestly expected him at one point to just say the greater good.

SPEAKER_01 50:02

Happy wife, happy afterlife.

SPEAKER_05 50:04

Oh man. Forever. You know what? I just realized Mr. Tuttle says something when we first see the servants walking up to the house and they're talking about whatever. I think they bring up the the the husband, and he says he's probably dead as well. And that's a giveaway right there. But if you don't catch that little dialogue, I just realized that.

SPEAKER_04 50:27

Wait, he says as well?

SPEAKER_05 50:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 50:30

I literally watched this movie yesterday.

SPEAKER_05 50:32

I'm pretty sure. I'm almost certain.

SPEAKER_04 50:33

I will whip out the DVD and I'll find out. I mean, either way, that's still incredible because for sure, rewatching this movie is fantastic and so much fun because you a hundred percent could catch things that you didn't include that one. Look at me right now. I just watched it, I watched it again in January, and if that's true, that's another thing that I didn't even pick up on. And that's so fun for a movie that's early 2000s, absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 50:58

It is, it is. But I know I know we've also been talking a lot about throughout this whole episode so far, but Grace, right? I mean, this is some of Nicole Kidman's best work, really. I think she did a really great job. It's it's one of my favorite films of hers. She just did a really good job portraying like a mom that's dealing with the fear of like her children's well-being, her husband off to war, but also suppressing obviously that she killed her children and killed herself and all this stuff, and like just I don't know, she was almost like stern but protective and nervous. I mean, maybe even neurotic, like really, really well done performance.

SPEAKER_04 51:39

Yeah, I think she portrays motherhood that in a way that it's not typically seen when you explore like the pressure of raising children, the pressure of raising your children to follow the faith that you believe in, to be good, the difficulty of doing that by yourself, all by yourself. I don't know. I just didn't see a lot of horror movies in the early 2000s that kind of tell that story about motherhood. Nowadays, of course, we have so many horror movies that explore motherhood. I think that's such a prolific part of the genre altogether, but man, Nicole Kidman sold it for that.

SPEAKER_01 52:14

Man, it's also so weird to think about this movie's timing in her life. So on I know Tom Cruise executive produced, this is the last time they ever worked together before their divorce. They adopted kids together, and then later on she wouldn't even be allowed at her own kids' wedding because Tom Cruise banned her because it was a Scientology wedding. It's terrible. And think about like how emotional like she got like during the production of this film, which is crazy.

SPEAKER_06 52:38

She nearly quit at one point. Like she was like gonna give up during filming. Oh wow, dang. Because that's I mean, that's that's a lot of emotion, you know? Yeah, it is. It does kind of I mean, I hate to say this, it kind of takes me to my worst part of the movie, and you've mentioned it, but Grace's scrupulosity to me didn't really have a payoff in the story, aside from just creating arguments with her daughter. She's just overly religious, constantly relying on like everything has to be in the Bible or it doesn't exist. But I think overall story arc-wise, I I don't really think it went anywhere. I think we had more of a payoff from her talking about limbo for kids than we did actually anything biblical.

SPEAKER_05 53:18

Good old limbo for kids.

SPEAKER_01 53:20

I mean, I appreciate it because I think it went spoke to the hypocrisy of all that shit. So it worked for me. It worked.

SPEAKER_06 53:26

I'll give you a backup just in case. I I think the audio, the audio was my second worst part of the movie. And the reason why is because most of the movie was too quiet to hear the dialogue, and then every now and then somebody would speak up and it would be like overly loud.

SPEAKER_01 53:39

This was actually legitimately my worst part of the movie because it starts with a scream and then I couldn't really understand a damn thing. I had to really run it back a few times, and I struggled to get subtitles on.

SPEAKER_05 53:51

Dang.

SPEAKER_01 53:52

Really? A lack of enunciation.

SPEAKER_05 53:54

It is hard to hear when they're talking low, for sure. When they do raise their voices, it's like you said, you hear it clearly, like almost too clearly, and the score obviously jumps super loud. But yeah, from a dialogue standpoint alone, I can see it. What it allowed to do with the rest of it, I think it was perfect.

SPEAKER_04 54:16

But can I be real and say that I I I don't think I have a worse part. So when you said you had a backup worst part, I was like, oh, I'll take it. And then it was that, and I was like, I disagree. So I'm trying to think of I gotta be real, guys. I I don't I don't think there's like I would have to really think about something that bothered me, and I guess maybe it could be Nicole Kidman's ending, but it wasn't like enough to make me feel like it was the absolute worst. At this point, it would be like, I'll say it's that to have a worse part, but I think this was a really solid movie, guys. So I'd kind of be lying to the listeners.

SPEAKER_05 54:52

I I feel you. It it is really hard to find a worse part of this film because I really truly enjoy it so much. Maybe if I had to if I had to pick something, maybe not getting like flashbacks of Grace killing her children and then herself, even more of a backstory for like the housekeepers. I don't know, maybe one or both of those things could have added to the film, but then how long do you want to drag the film on and and would it really add to it or not? I don't know, but I definitely want to see the kills.

SPEAKER_01 55:24

I would have taken kills over weird ghost sex, thanks. One more time? Oh, oh yeah. Oh my god. Like we didn't need the husband kiss enough on her to snap out of this weird uh depression era of of ghost feelings he had. Okay. Like he could have just moved on. Thanks.

SPEAKER_04 55:41

Okay. Maybe we didn't, but that's actually you just reminded me that that was another beautiful, like well-shot moment. Just the two of them like staring at each other. I thought it was real sweet. God, y'all, let me be a romantic.

SPEAKER_06 55:54

Uh I I also have to disagree here though, because I don't want another moment like The Witch. I know that's Sean's thing, apparently, based on his track record, you know, but I don't I don't know that we needed it.

SPEAKER_01 56:05

You didn't even watch the boogeyman.

SPEAKER_04 56:07

Wait, what? The baby dying?

SPEAKER_05 56:10

It's just kid kids dying.

SPEAKER_04 56:12

Oh, uh oh.

SPEAKER_05 56:13

Not that not that I want kids to actually die, but I mean, if you're gonna kill kids, you better you better show it. That's all I should say.

SPEAKER_04 56:20

Come on, boogeyman. No, I'm here thinking that there was like weird ghost sex in the witch. I was like, did we watch the same movie?

SPEAKER_06 56:27

Oh.

SPEAKER_04 56:29

So confused.

SPEAKER_06 56:30

That's uh deleted scene. That's that's what you're missing. Yeah, it had to have been. They wanted to live deliciously.

SPEAKER_05 56:35

Oh boy. Yes, they did.

SPEAKER_01 56:37

Let me tell you though, as quality as this movie is, Binks, I think I need to hold off on watching it again for a while because I feel like this movie holds up so well for me because I haven't seen it in so long, and I almost don't want to like overindulge.

SPEAKER_04 56:52

Yeah, that's fair. Like, I didn't in I didn't think I was gonna be re-w I look when I watched it in January, I didn't even think that we were gonna be reviewing it because uh it was a patron vote, right? So it just so happened to be that way. So it's just pure coincidence. So at this point, like maybe if someone really wanted to watch it with me, like towards the end of the year, I'll do it, but might give it a gap so that it's still a fun re-watch. Because without a doubt, I personally recommend to re-watch it so that you can experience the little things that you didn't catch on to from early on. Like that script. That's nuts, Sean. Yeah, that's really, really crazy that he does say that. I didn't catch it at all.

SPEAKER_05 57:30

Well, it's not exactly how I said it, so it more alludes to the war, but still, it's a hint. It's a hint.

SPEAKER_04 57:37

It's it's a subliminal hint, yeah. Cause I guess you could think the war, but we know what they were trying to say.

SPEAKER_05 57:42

Yeah, look, I don't know, I don't know if I need to watch this one really soon, but seeing as I own the film and I have seen it a good number of times already, I think it's safe to say that I'll be watching this one again. It is arguably one of my favorite ghost stories when it comes to film. So I I I mean it's gotta be up there in maybe top five ghost stories for sure.

SPEAKER_06 58:07

Yeah, I think it's got a lot of rewatch value and just like as a movie, you know, it's not quite like gladiator level. That to me is kind of the ultimate rewatchable movie where it could be on TV three days a week and you could just watch an hour of it each time and you'd be completely happy with it. But it's it's heading there, you know, it's got that formula to it. But I think uh kind of like Chris here, I actually wrote in my notes that I think you should space it out in between so that you can still have a high level of investment each time. Because if you watched it like every couple of months, I I think you would it would just be background noise eventually.

SPEAKER_01 58:39

That's fair. For sure. But let's see if there's anything that Mac has in fact or fiction that can tide you over until your next watch.

SPEAKER_06 58:45

Number one, to help the child actors get into character, the director had crew members give them jump scares with Halloween masks.

SPEAKER_02 58:50

That's cute.

SPEAKER_05 58:53

Oh man. Maybe they needed to practice jump scares, but I don't know if they were using Halloween masks. I'm gonna go fiction.

SPEAKER_04 59:00

I'm gonna say fiction because like, did they experience a multitude of jump scares overall? Like, I don't know. Maybe a few, but not enough to where they need to practice. So I don't know. I'll I'll agree. Also fiction.

SPEAKER_06 59:12

This one is a fiction, uh, but he did play spooky tunes randomly without warning to get 'em. Fun. Nice. Number two, that certain writer director also wrote the script in Spanish, and then it was translated into English afterwards.

SPEAKER_02 59:26

That I believe. That's I feel like is a fact for sure.

SPEAKER_05 59:30

Hmm. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I don't know. I I'll go fact too, but I'm not sure, honestly. This one is indeed a fact.

SPEAKER_03 59:38

I don't know. It gave it gave the vibe that he wrote it in Spanish, you know, like in that native tongue, just that that vibe.

SPEAKER_06 59:44

Oh, nothing better than a native tongue. Number three, Tom Cruise was a producer on this film, and he and Nicole Kidman's divorce was finalized the actual same week the movie was released. Wait, what? What did you just say? Sorry. Their divorce was finalized the same week this movie was released. Oh, yikes.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:04

It's giving Katy Perry when Russell Brand decided to divorce her when she was gonna go on stage for a concert. I'm gonna say, considering Tom Cruise is a human being, that's gotta be a fact.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:16

Alright. Uh, well, that if it is a fact, man, that's rough, but I'm gonna go fiction. I know it was all happening, probably, but I don't know if they actually finalized the divorce, so I'm gonna go fiction.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:28

If only this one was a fact. Ugh yikes.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:31

Yep, absolutely, because he's an asshole. So there's that.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:34

I mean, yeah, I I don't know if anyone's gonna blame her in this situation here. Yeah. Number four, this is the third ever non-Spanish language film to win best film at Spain's National Film Awards ceremony, the Goya's awards.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:46

Third? The third film?

SPEAKER_06 1:00:48

Um Man, I have no idea.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:50

Okay, who what would the two before it be? You know what? Fuck it. I'm gonna say fiction, because maybe it's like second or like the first, and then there were two other, you know? I feel like it's the number here is the trick.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:02

I know. It it feels like fiction to me too, but yeah, I don't know. I'm gonna go fiction as well.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:08

And you guys like really caught me on this one. This is a fiction, it was the first. The Corey's were established back in '87, uh, and this film won without having a lick of Spanish in it. Nice. So, you know, good job, Alejandro. Really good job.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:21

Very nice. Well done. And uh special bonus for you guys that this movie is based off of a 1963 episode of the Twilight Zone titled Echoes in an Empty House.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:30

Holy shit, really?

SPEAKER_04 1:01:31

Wait.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:32

Is it? Is it or That's the question.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:34

That's the question. Oh, man, oh, both of us were like, what? Fact! Okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:40

Please let it be f- Oh, I'm gonna go fiction, but I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:44

No, I'm gonna be fact, but I'm manifesting and hoping that it is, because that's really cool. And if not, damn.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:49

I'm gonna have to watch it if it is.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:51

It's a fiction, but it's still equally cool. Um it's actually based off of a 1970 episode of a British TV show called Armchair Theatre. Okay. Episode title, The Others. Nice. There was also a 1973 film based off of the same episode titled Voices.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:06

Ooh.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:07

Pretty much like, you know, the exact same kind of story, even though there were different characters in a different setup. So this idea has been around a lot longer than I see dead people. Sweet. And that's been fact or fiction.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:19

Well, there you have it, folks. The others has earned a universal slash. We've certainly had a robust discussion here, but it doesn't end here by any means. We want to know what you think.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:28

Did you catch the plot twist to the plot twist early on? I'm just curious. But you can let us know by joining in on the conversation by hanging out with us for free in our Discord. Click the link in our show notes to sign up.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:39

If you've enjoyed listening to this episode and want to nominate a movie yourself, consider becoming one of our patrons. Visit patreon.com slash hacker slash to enjoy more of the show with early access, extended episodes, bonus content, and live shows.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:50

Our thanks again to Creepy Creep for their support of Hackerslash. We'll see you next time, folks, and remember, there isn't always an answer for everything.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:58

How can these people be so superstitious?