281: The Collector (2009)

SPEAKER_04 0:04

Man, I really get called out every fucking time that we do these 2000s movies.

SPEAKER_02 0:12

Greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hacker Slash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. What's that box doing in our bedroom? If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack.

SPEAKER_00 0:27

A total joke, a waste of time, or a slash.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

Totally killer, pun intended.

SPEAKER_02 0:32

We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, we're rating these movies with the perspective we've gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast. This week I'm joined by the Superfly Space Guy Mac.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

I'm gonna need you to scream. The classic horror carnour Sean. You don't come up here all hopped up on your macho bullshit.

SPEAKER_02 0:52

And the paranormal paramour, Binx. Just give me until midnight, alright? The people have spoken and our patrons have decided we're revisiting a film we originally covered back in episode 35. Before we step into that time machine though, we have some follow-up.

SPEAKER_01 1:06

Let's follow up on a season, specifically the spooky preseason. Alright, October, it's gonna be a big one. Sixth anniversary, 300th episode, and our very own live show at our meetup, October 13th, Orlando, Florida. Again, huge.

SPEAKER_02 1:22

Hell yeah. Get your tickets now.

SPEAKER_01 1:23

It's gonna be fun. It's not just October, right? So stuff's gonna happen before then. From August 1st through the 31st, the whole month of August, we're running a challenge for all of our listeners. So help us pregame, not just by drinking a delicious beverage, but join our Discord and mingle with the Hackerslash fam. You know Discord, right? It's like a server thing that you join and you chat with some people. It's great, though, right? So there's an app you can down, you can use it on the web. Horror is for everybody. We say that all the time. You may not know that the ultimate goal of our show is to get everybody together in an environment where you can talk about horror, right? And we do that on our Discord, where it's a safe, inclusive space for fans to be fans and connect over what we love, horror movies. So to celebrate that through the entire month, every Discord member will gain points just for participating in our community by talking about all things horror. Connect with each other, participate in our live stream chats. On the 1st of September, though, we're going to announce the community members with the most points. Our top three winners, they're gonna get something special. Something special in the mail. It's actually a merch package designed specifically for our spooky season theme. We also have some little special things going on for our runners up as well. So let's talk about it. Discord, join it, have fun with the hackerslash fam, get points, win cool stuff. So you can learn some more about this. Go to go.hackerslash.live slash preseason. And also, welcome and thank you to our newest patron, Jax. Hell yeah. Welcome, Jax.

SPEAKER_02 2:49

Man, okay, yes. Also, Jax, welcome. I really hope you are fond of Mortal Kombat and Jax for Mortal Kombat, because Jax is kind of a badass. Absolutely agreed. It's a great name.

SPEAKER_01 3:01

And that's our follow-up.

SPEAKER_02 3:02

Well, in 2009, director Marcus Dunstan and screenwriter Patrick Melton set their sights on a fresh venture following their work on the Saw franchise. They initially conceived a film known as The Midnight Man, a proposed origin story for the infamous Jigsaw Killer. Ultimately, though, it became a unique narrative of its own. The story centers on a man crippled by debt and desperate to make things right with his wife. His strategy? A heist at his new employer's country estate. What he doesn't foresee, though, is that another criminal has already claimed the property, transforming it into a deadly maze of traps. Harnessing the talents of producers Brett Forbes, Patrick Rosati, and Julie Richardson, they turned a modest three million dollar budget into a tale of suspense and horror that pulled in over ten million dollars at the box office. This week, after winning fifty percent of the overall patron vote, we're talking about the collector.

SPEAKER_04 3:54

So this movie was nominated by our patron Lucas, who says Home Alone was my favorite Christmas movie when I was a kid, and the Collector is if Kevin became a serial killer. It's one I've had a soft spot for since I was ten, and it sparked my small love for home invasion movies. Well, we'll see if it earns a soft spot for us. Who's seen this one before? I have never seen or heard of this movie before. So quite honestly, to wrap my head around the fact that this has had a soft spot for Lucas since he was 10 is a lot for me to process currently.

SPEAKER_01 4:26

Yeah, before watching this, before getting to this, the only collector I knew about was the Bone Collector.

SPEAKER_00 4:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 4:30

Ooh.

SPEAKER_00 4:31

Alright. 100%. I was gonna say the same thing. I have never seen this one before, but I kept confusing this one with the Bone Collector from the 90s, because that's what kept popping into my head when I think Collector, that's the movie that pops into my head with Denzel Washington and Angelina Jolie. Which I don't know if that's a horror movie. I haven't seen it in a long time. It's definitely like a suspense thriller from what I remember, but needless to say, that I was confused going into this one.

SPEAKER_02 4:58

Ooh, okay. So I've seen this one before. Obviously, we covered it back in episode 35. That was my first time seeing it, and I have not watched it since then. I believe that was circa 2018. I am curious though, given the confusion with other movies, what were y'all expecting going into this one?

SPEAKER_01 5:14

Well, 2009. So, you know, expectations for me, gritty, gross, and green tinted.

SPEAKER_04 5:20

Green tinted, absolutely. And well, uh considering who like made this film, I I looked into it as the movie had started, checks out, obviously. But my biggest thing was that why did I well, now I know why, but like why did I think this was set during Christmas time? And I realized right before we started recording that it's because of what Lucas said that it was home alone and a Christmas movie. I spent the entire fucking movie thinking, when is Christmas being incorporated into this plot? Like I don't understand. So I'm just here to tell everyone that this is not a Christmas film. Just in case you were thinking that at any point in time, it's not.

SPEAKER_00 5:59

Disclaimer.

SPEAKER_02 6:00

Disclaimer. Okay. But you know what? If you squint your eyes just right, just about anything can have the magic of Christmas. The green tint? Is that the magic of Christmas? Because there's plenty of that. It's giving Black Christmas 2006. Oh.

SPEAKER_01 6:14

Uh, just a touch of jaundice does the uh does the world right. You could say this is a Christmas movie simply because somebody opens a box, you know? It's like a Christmas present.

SPEAKER_04 6:24

Look at that. Wow, we're we're stretching. Thanks, guys. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 6:28

Green tint, boxes being opened. Definitely Christmas. I gotta say though, when I read the synopsis, I wasn't expecting this one to be a movie that I was gonna like. I I didn't watch a trailer or look any further into this film outside of reading the very short, very brief synopsis, and I was really expecting this to be a pretty basic film with a convoluted storyline that wasn't going to make a whole lot of sense, to be honest. And let me tell you, this movie really did start off feeling like a low-budget horror movie from the quality of the camera work to the acting. I don't know how I felt about the use of colors to what you all are saying throughout the film either. This really did feel like the horror version of Home Alone, so now it's all making a whole lot of sense. In fact, it really felt like if Saw and Home Alone had a baby and this was the result.

SPEAKER_01 7:19

I don't know. When I was watching it, it it feels like that old, you know, you wouldn't steal a car commercial, right? It's that PSA turned into a like the vibe of a movie. But I think my expectations are pretty correct. It was gritty, it was gross, it most definitely had a tint to it. But I think we also had a protagonist and a story that I felt compelled enough to like be invested in for most of the film.

SPEAKER_02 7:39

Fascinating because I don't know that I could feel any more differently, Mac. So when I first watched this movie, I found this to be one that has potential, but one I couldn't get into, right? It's kind of like the ones that are just like, oh, okay, it's just not for me. This time around, really trying to go into it with an open mind, thinking, okay, now that I've had a little bit more of the Saw franchise under my belt, now that I'm a little older, a little wiser, uh, maybe I have a maybe I have a better tolerance for this. I think the biggest thing that struck me was how little I felt, period, because it was a mix of boredom, a little bit of there's nipples in this movie for no reason, and then did they really have to drop the F slur three fucking times? No thank you.

SPEAKER_04 8:25

Yeah, it's interesting that you brought up the bored thing because I was definitely bored in the first act. Start starting off, I was vibing with you know the opening credits of song. I agree, yeah, I noticed the Saw vibes instantly and was like, all right, okay, I can get behind this. I I love Saw, so like that's fine. I can I can vibe with it. And it makes sense. I mean, this movie was literally shopped, like we're like you were saying, shopped as a prequel for Saw, so I guess it all is coming together. But yeah, it was the boredom during the first act, and then throughout the rest of the movie, I guess we could call it my biggest disappointment is like a majority of the movie I was bored until I got very upset. And I was like upset for a good while. And I think there was like a several things that made me upset. Like obviously F words multiple times was unnecessary. We'll get to my animal report in just a second. That one's gonna be a fun one. The look of the collector as well, a little bit disappointing. I don't know, it was just several elements, but you know what? The surprise for me is that even though it was so boring at the good half of it, is that being upset made me interested. And that's surprising. Like, even though I was upset at the movie and had things to nitpick, I finally did pay attention. And I don't know if that's like that's an interesting thing, right? Like, I don't know if that's necessarily a bad thing after all.

SPEAKER_01 9:49

I I can feel you there because I was disappointed as well by several things, but I'm gonna narrow it down here. We'll talk about more later. I was mostly disappointed by how much I just did not like the antagonist. And I don't mean like they were a big old jerk, I just mean like I didn't feel that they were the right antagonist for the movie. It just like it something didn't mesh well with me. But I was pleasantly surprised by the fact that like for whatever reason I wanted to know more. For whatever reason at the end, you know, like I want to know what's next. Like what's going on here. And I did not think as I was watching this that I would give a crap basically about what's going on next.

SPEAKER_00 10:27

Yeah, I think that we're all aligned in at least in the beginning of the film, it was very disappointing in how boring and just like not engaged that I was watching that, at least the first, I don't know, 20 or 30 minutes, because I mean, let's just be honest, the acting is not super great in this film, and neither is the storyline. But I was surprised by how once everything really did start going in the second half of the movie, I was engaged in what was going on to the same point that you made, Binks, and I found myself yelling at the TV screen. I I was biting my fist a cut for a couple of parts, and I really thought to myself, this movie is really not that good to have any business evoking these feelings out of me right now.

SPEAKER_04 11:14

That's it, that's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying, and that's what caught me by surprise. I'm like, why am I feeling things? This movie is not that great. Why? I'm still I'm still processing.

SPEAKER_02 11:27

It's giving, first of all, how dare you, is what I'm hearing, really. I think the surprising thing to me is that I couldn't really find much more to enjoy. So we have an a protagonist that's played by Josh Stewart, right? And I found myself a little bit interested in that because I just saw him in The Finest Hours, and I was like, man, that's a great actor, completely forgetting that he was in this movie. So I walked into this with a lot of hope that maybe there's something that could redeem this experience for me. But it mostly fit just fell flat in so many ways. And I think it's because of how uninvested I was in the characters in this movie, apart from one. And that is something that I think absolutely destroys the any any potential this movie has to be frightening. This movie on paper should work, it should be menacing, it should feel like, oh, what's gonna happen? But I only really felt maybe a portion of that for one character, but I was even when watching this the first time, pretty sure that nothing was gonna happen to them. So I was like, ah, okay, the stakes aren't really that high.

SPEAKER_01 12:38

Yeah, you know, I I think there is kind of a low fear factor. They traded that, and this is very 2009, this is very saw-esque. They traded that for a high grimace factor, I think. It's unfortunate because they could have played it very differently here, but it doesn't read as scary, it just reads as I'm watching Saw number 5.5.

SPEAKER_00 12:55

Oh, geez. I'm with you. I think this one, it's not a jump scare type of movie, although some parts might still get you if you're easily scared. I I think this one is terrifying in the way that a movie like Saw is terrifying. It it does have some creepy elements to it for sure, but it it's mostly just filled with some really graphic scenes of pain and torture and death that can be hard to watch for like the squeamest of viewers out there. Just really a lot of cringy moments for sure.

SPEAKER_04 13:23

Yeah, absolutely. I personally was too caught up on how weird the collector looked, truthfully, to be scared by anything. But to your point, there is a lot of gross things happening in this movie. I would dare say, like, if you are not um a person that like doesn't get easily squeamish or something like that, then yeah, this is gonna be just fine. But man, this is like a this is a horror vibe on the gore alone. I mean, I'm interested to see how you you know how you rated it, Sean. But like I I'd say on the gore side of things and disgusting factor, yeah, not not pleasant.

SPEAKER_01 14:00

I think it really does play to the idea that they kind of just ripped saw, right? That like that's where the whole idea originated. Because when you're watching this, that's all I'm thinking is they were like, let's make saw but heisty.

SPEAKER_04 14:10

Yeah. Which again, I mean, it's literally the the creators or like, well, the directors or something like that, you know. Like I it's a given. I feel like they just took what they already knew was doing well, and they just said, let's give this a little spin a bit, you know. And that's fine. Bring saw but more in an intimate setting of a of a home. But aside from that, yeah, it's like not that that original.

SPEAKER_02 14:34

And there really isn't much more to say on this movie's originality than that, right? This is redundant.

SPEAKER_00 14:39

The overall storyline and the plot is not the strongest here. I I think that this was a different type of movie to watch. Like if you're comparing it, you know, we're we're comparing it to Saw because obviously I don't know if it was you said directors, creators, whatever, whoever worked on the Saw movies and then went and did this movie, you can tell that it was heavily influenced. And I I know that we've talked or we mentioned earlier that this was maybe an attempt to be a prequel to Saw, whatever. But this one, this one feels a little bit different than Saw. Like, yes, there's a lot of the same type of elements, but obviously it's in a different setting, different scenario, different goals, if you will. And I think that it feels original in in that sense, even though it has familiar vibes to other movies out there. The approach to the storyline is different. It doesn't make it great, but it does make it different.

SPEAKER_01 15:31

Yeah, but the trouble I have, though, is a couple years later somebody was like, hey, let's make a home invasion movie, and it's gonna be horror themed and all that kind of stuff, and they did it, I think, way better, and that's the purge. That was only four years later, and I think that's how you do a home invasion movie but scary correctly.

SPEAKER_02 15:48

You mean well, a home invasion movie with a purpose.

SPEAKER_01 15:51

Right, right. That that that maybe the intent is what's there that this one doesn't quite have.

SPEAKER_04 15:57

But hold on, I'm gonna I'm gonna advocate, can't believe I'm gonna do this right now, but I'm gonna advocate for this movie and say there are certain home invasion-ish movies that are like more in recent day that there is no motive and they are excellent. Or at the very least, I mean I say home invasion ever so slightly because you don't necessarily know that it's a home invasion until it is one. So I think it's hit or miss when it comes to motive. And I I mean I wish I could get, you know, in the spoiler zone, we can get more into detail. I'm trying to navigate these waters without spoiling too much, but I agree that there wasn't really like much to it. However, there was opportunity to be like the recent day movies that are like home invasion with purpose. The Purge, however, that's unmatched. You can't, I mean, fantastic, yeah, unmatched. It's very hard to compare the two, but I can see where you're coming at with that.

SPEAKER_02 16:49

I guess something that I want to clarify here is that the movie itself can have a purpose without the killer having a motive. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 16:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:57

The Strangers, 2008, literally the motive is because they are home. There is no real motive there, right? Yeah. So I am all on board with mystery. I'm all on board with not having a lot of conclusion of that kind of thing at the end of the experience, right? What I'm not on board with is something that's so repetitive that it's just like, all right, why did we get this? Like, what are what was the purpose in making this film and making this another something that we spend however long, however many minutes of our lives watching? Because I think in some elements there's a little bit of an entertainment factor to justify that, but I don't know that there's enough in here to really outweigh the entire movie. And I think maybe one of the better parts of it is the ending. I'm not jazzed about it. I am excited that this time I at least stayed and watched the cutscene at the very, very, very end of the credits. And that's not something that I experienced the first time I watched this movie, but I think at least for me it ended on the high note.

SPEAKER_04 18:02

Damn it. You know, Ryan is really up to something because all of these movies have end credits things, and I'm not about to marvel every single movie that we're seeing. I'm just gonna start fast-forwarding every movie that we watch to the very end, just in case. I literally did that. How are you gonna expect a 2009 movie to have an end credit scene? What the fuck? That's nuts.

SPEAKER_00 18:21

They're out there.

SPEAKER_04 18:22

Well, here's my thing: it's like the ending is is good. It's definitely tense. I thought it ended when it didn't, and it was like a good time for that. I think maybe it went a little bit longer than necessary in all of that tactic, but I appreciate the wrap-up for sure. But now I'm interested to see this end credit scene. At this point, I'm fast-forwarding every movie. That's it.

SPEAKER_01 18:43

Okay, I I need to watch that on the break as well, but there is also a deleted scene where it's an alternate ending. Oh, I heard about this. And it chops literally 25 minutes off the movie, and it's actually hilarious. So probably the best ending. You have to watch it because it is incredibly funny. This ending, though, I had so this is so strange, Chris. I had the opposite experience where I was okay with some parts of it as we're getting towards the end, but the actual end I just thought was a wasteful dud. I I did not enjoy the actual wrap-up to this movie, but I need to go watch the end credits scene to actually now make a correct, like a you know, I I can't even know how to judge it, knowing that there's more.

SPEAKER_00 19:19

Yeah. I I'm really on the fence with the ending for this film. You know, there were parts about the ending that I enjoyed, but there were also parts that I didn't like as well. So I'm kind of 50-50 on it. But what's interesting about the ending to this film is that you almost get a happy ending and a not so happy ending all at the same time, which is a little bit unique.

SPEAKER_04 19:40

Yep, I agree. I agree big time. That's that's what I think is kind of interesting. Was not expecting that.

SPEAKER_02 19:46

Well, we'll see if this intrigue translates well to some ratings. But before we get there, Sean, how would you describe the gore score?

SPEAKER_00 19:53

Well, for all our gore lovers out there, this one is probably for you. If you like movies like Hostile and Saw, Terrifier, even grotesque, if we're really trying to go, you know, and pull one out of left field. But movies like that, then you're probably going to enjoy what you get out of this film because you get some really gory and graphic scenes, scenes with you know, fingers getting chopped off, stabbings, impalements, fish hooks, disembowelment to say the least. So this film has definitely earned a severe gore score.

SPEAKER_04 20:25

And what about the Animal Report? Well, I hinted at a little bit earlier. I can't even begin to explain how upset PETA would be with this movie. If you're a pet lover, prepare to be thoroughly upset with two extremely graphic kills that I have to say have like it's gotten to the point where it my scoring of this movie is just back and forth because I'm just so shocked by this animal report.

SPEAKER_02 20:50

Well, we'll see in just a moment how back and forth it is. The Collector from 2009, was it a hack or a slash? And I'll go ahead and go first. I'll keep this brief. This movie is vastly better than I remember it. I'll give it credit for that. But even still, it's just not the kind of movie I can really get into. There are moments that work, yeah, for sure, but overall it's a quintessential 2009 movie that outweighs its potential. It really does. It leans so far into the grungy grit and the poor color and lighting choices that it loses any goodwill it earned from me. And if you like Saw, you'll like this. If you're like me though, and you have a disdain for green-tinted films and grungy torture, it's a hard pass, dog. It has potential to have a great remake, but it was a hack for me in episode 35, and it's still a hack for me today in 2023.

SPEAKER_01 21:42

Oh boy. This film. Okay, so this film simultaneously pleasantly surprised me and wholly disappointed me over and over again. So the protagonist was nearly likable. The story was simple, but just enough to keep me interested. But the antagonist and his torture porn was too much for my liking as well. The 2009 Hugh applied to the film. Was to be expected, honestly, and the Saw-esque cinematography was honestly okay. Um, there was even a little kill recap towards the end, just like the finale flashback in a real Saw movie. And that's where I think the movie lost itself. They had a fairly unique antagonist with a disturbing MO and a box-shaped intrigue, a down-to-earth anti-hero protagonist and a supporting cast who's just supportive enough for me to be okay with rooting for them or against them. But when it came down to it, the filmmakers decided the Crisis Resolution formula needed to stick to Jigsaw's bland and boring recipe and lose anything unique they might have built. In my mind. An absolutely missed opportunity to stand alone. I think this combined with the unenjoyable torture porn, the protagonist's shocking use of homophobic slurs, and clearly unnecessary cruelty towards animals could easily earn the collector a hack, but somehow it crossed into 51% slash territory for me. I don't know why, I don't know what did it, but I I want to watch the sequel. I want to know what's next, and I think it's because it made me angry. And I think that's the its only success was I gave a little bit of crap about the the protagonist, and I want to see if and what happens next.

SPEAKER_00 23:12

Dang.

SPEAKER_04 23:12

Mac, I feel seen completely. Look, I was going to give this movie a chance after a good while. It started off blah for me. I bought into the crazy traps and the gnarly gore, and then the animal report got real bad. And then the homophobic slurs were needlessly said repeatedly that I did a double take on the screen. And then the animal report got super fucking bad. Like real bad. And quite frankly, this movie may be doing a lot with its shock factor, but it's like all that it really has going for it. But that being said, like you said, Mac, I don't know what it is. Despite even being bored the first half, I was just so upset that I'm I'm hooked. Like I'm I don't know what it is. Like I I just I think it is the 51% because I'm I'm literally surprising myself right now, making a game time decision, and I actually think I am going to give this a slash. Again, 51%. Just it's maybe it's a hate watch. You know how people like call that a thing? Like that's a thing, it's a hate watch. You just want to get real upset and riled up. Maybe this is it for me. A first on the podcast. For me so far. It's incredible.

SPEAKER_00 24:23

Oh, that's funny. I really I really expected there to be a lot more hacks for this film. And here and here's where I struggle with this one because yes, it has a lot of flaws. There's a lot of poor choices that are made in the making of this film. I thought the storyline or the overall plot lacked some real depth. I thought the acting, I mean, well, let's be honest, it just wasn't great. It wasn't good at all. I didn't enjoy the cinematography on this one. It was distracting in some moments, and the picture quality felt cheap, and maybe that was the point, but it wasn't for me on this one. But what I think the film did really well is build some really terrifying moments, some good suspense and tension, along with some really great kills. So the film is to me, it's unapologetic in its approach to the genre and its its approach to gore as a whole. So once you get through that first like 20 or 30 minutes or so, all of the good qualities allow you to get past some of those negative aspects of the film and how boring it was to start the film off. And I found myself being engaged in what was happening. And to your points, right? Like whether it was just being angry at the film or angry at what was happening, uh, yelling out loud at some of the things that were happening in the film. I just think that because of that, I can't justify a hack for this movie. So I am also going to have to give this one a slash. It's only fair.

SPEAKER_02 25:51

Listen, y'all, life's too short and there are too many good movies to be wash and bullshit that makes you mad.

SPEAKER_04 25:55

Are you sure? Sometimes when you when you get mad, you know, you get motivated, you know? You get I start to think to myself, I could have maybe like I would think that you would think this way. Like, I could make a better movie than this.

SPEAKER_02 26:07

Like you feel motivated, you feel riled up. Fuck no. No. Okay. Absolutely not. No, I don't. But you know what? It's okay, because I've been here before. When we did this movie in episode 35, I was the only hack with four slashes. And once again, I am the only hack standing against three slashes. And there you have it, folks. You can find this movie streaming online. Check the link in our show notes to see where you can find it right now. Then join us in the second half while I do my best to defend this movie's dishonor. We'll see you in a bit.

SPEAKER_01 26:44

Who said toys are just for kids? With Arkin's Jack in the Box, we're proving that grown-ups just want to have fun too. And by fun, we mean a full-grown man popping out of a box. Think of it as a clown car circus act, but in your living room. Arkans Jack in the Box is no ordinary toy. Turn the crank, anticipation builds, your heart races, and boom, a full-sized, mildly terrified man named Arkin springs out. Arkin's got skills. He can pick a lock faster than you can say, lost my keys again. He's a whiz at marital advice, and he makes a mean guacamole. However, if you're expecting him to fix your plumbing or paint your house, you've got the wrong guy. And yes, we know what you're thinking. Is this legal? Is it ethical? It's probably best not to ask questions. But here's the twist. Where Arkin goes, the collector follows. Sort of like an extremely ominous buy-one-get one deal. Now you might think, wait, I didn't sign up for a collector, but fear not. When life hands you a collector, we say, why not turn it into collectible merchandise? So why settle for a dull life when you can add a dash of excitement with Arkin's Jack in the Box? It's all the fun of a surprise party with the added thrill of potential danger. Throw caution to the wind and embrace the absurdity with Arkans Jack in the Box. Any collector special otherwise that may or may not be summoned by the appearance of Arkansas fairly coincidental. Arkansas in the box is not liable for any unexpected collection, suspenseful, standoffs or sudden increase in heart rate.

SPEAKER_04 28:31

I'll start us off with what I believe to be the only right answer. And that is, I don't even know this boy's name, but the boyfriend and all those bear traps, my goodness gracious. That was absolutely absurd, ridiculous, and just the wildest thing that that movie could have done. And it was already getting pretty fucking crazy, considering the Animal Report as mentioned.

SPEAKER_00 28:56

Can you even imagine though? Like just the thought, just just the visual of him stepping into the bear trap one and his ankle being crushed was enough. But then falling down into all of those, just oh man, I felt I felt for that dude. And then his face on top of it, like Jesus.

SPEAKER_04 29:18

Because it's like you you imagine like the pit of like needles or or swords and blah, you know, like sharp objects. A pit of bear traps. First of all, the collector is like a ballerina because how in the world did you even set this whole house up, much less an entire room full of bear traps? But yeah, that was just grotesque and quite unfortunate.

SPEAKER_01 29:43

Now I'm imagining the collector playing like the sugar plum fairy song while he's like setting them up.

SPEAKER_02 29:48

That's why it's a Christmas movie. Thank you. That's it. There we go, full circle. That is the only death that I was even remotely sparked by this time around. I don't remember how I felt about it in the original episode on this. It is, I think, the most elaborate death in the movie, besides maybe Jill, but I think the reason why it works so much is because you get this like, will they or won't they back and forth with if he's gonna hit a tripwire while he's trying to have sex with this girl on a table.

SPEAKER_03 30:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:20

I think something that distracts me in that scene is just absolutely how fucking disgusting the collector's mouth is as he's licking his lips, watching them for the lack thereof. Yeah, yeah. But the bear traps is uh really the only thing that you know made me feel something.

SPEAKER_01 30:34

I think it's perfect that the dude's name is Chad, though, and he was absolutely being a Chad before he got taken out. Chad. That was also my number one, so now I have to pick a number two, and I think the close number two for me, actually not close, it's it's a long shot. Chad is obviously number one, but Jill. We'll we'll throw Jill out there because just because it was so ridiculous, like ending up pinned on the wall, and it was all for a pair of shears. So um, you know, you reach for some scissors and now you're pinned to a wall bed. That's just it's it like doesn't even mathematically add up in the whole like Goldberg of it all, but for some reason that's how the trap was set.

SPEAKER_00 31:10

Yeah, that was a good one for sure. Her getting flung into the wall of nails or whatever just reminded me of this children abotem song Bed of Nails. Because any of that, laying on a bed of nails, being flung into a wall of nails, none of it sounds fun. And I really just like really want to know was all of this done prior to Arkin going into the house, or was all of this done in the 20 seconds that he heard him come into the house? Because this this collector is fucking impressive if he booby-trapped this whole fucking house in 20 seconds.

SPEAKER_02 31:44

Really? You hit a point in the movie where you can't take three inches out of a full step without stumbling into a fucking trap, but he really got his way all the way up to that painting without running into anything.

SPEAKER_00 31:54

That's what I'm saying. To be fair, you know, once he figured out what was happening, he was like a fucking ninja in that house. So I'll give him credit for that. But man, and and you you all picked some really good kills. I think obviously we gotta talk about Michael's kill because that was probably one of the most brutal kills uh of all for sure, because he's sitting there getting tortured for God knows how long and exactly like what took place, but being hung up like that and then like gutted and disemboweled, that is intense. Like, that is some gnarly shit to see.

SPEAKER_01 32:29

That was definitely Hannibal level, you know, butterfly kind of thing going on where all the guts were spelled out onto the floor. I'm I am happy we didn't see it happen, you know, shot for shot. Right. I'm happy we got to see the aftermath later because I don't, you know, that's not something I need to see.

SPEAKER_04 32:44

It reminds me of Casey Becker and Scream. Oh, I was I was gonna say it reminds me of a very why did I first want to say cute? That's not correct, Bianca. It reminds me of Terrifier and the hot dog slice. Oh yeah, cute. Why did I want to say cute because it wasn't a hot dog slice put upside down? I don't know. I'm not well. So there's that.

SPEAKER_00 33:08

Welcome to the dark side.

SPEAKER_04 33:09

Welcome, yeah, no kidding. Jesus. I wanted to go super fast though to Jill's kill again because did it remind anyone of Nightmare on Elm Street Dream Warriors? Like three? Of when that girl is on the TV screen, like just her head. I don't know, it kind of reminded me of that moment a little bit, maybe because I've seen Nightmare on Elm Street pretty relatively recently in the last couple months. But that we were talking about kills and what they reminded me of us, or or what they reminded us of. That one was the one for me when it comes to to Jill.

SPEAKER_01 33:38

It's the camp of it all. That's what that's what did it for you.

SPEAKER_02 33:40

Yeah, has to be. Can we also talk about what bullshit Victoria's death was? Because that woman really went through so much just to lose her goddamn mind. Yeah. Disregard any instruction she's been given, and I get it. It's the trauma of it all, it's the fear of it all. But she really just knowing that she can't really make a sound, she went from being so afraid to scream to help him, yeah, to saying, I'm just gonna run around. Like she was doing she was doing her best to be Shelly Duvall and the Shining.

SPEAKER_00 34:09

That really All the way up those stairs. Well, that in and of itself upset me. But just the fact that this poor dude is trying to help all of these fucking people, and all of them do not follow direction in the slightest, and they all end up dead. This is exactly why I say, like, I'm just not I'm just not about going to save anybody. All right. If some crazy shit's going down, I'm getting the fuck out of there because all of you are just gonna bring me down. But the the fact, the fact of the matter is, is like Victoria's death, you know, yes, she did that whole thing, it's upsetting, she doesn't follow direction. I get it. She sees her husband disembowed, that's a horrific thing to see, so she freaks out. I get it, whatever. She's running up the stairs, she gets stabbed, like I don't know, at least a couple times, falls down the stairs. Also, like even before all of that, when she has the mask on, right? And Arkin finds her for the first time, he says he can't take the mask off. And it shows that like it looks like it's hooked up to something. Like if he were to take it off, something was gonna happen, and then the next time he visits there, he just rips it off, no problem.

SPEAKER_02 35:11

I think it's because when he first sees it, he sees that there's like safety pins in her head, and he's concerned about causing her pain. I think by the time he returns to her, he's seen so much in that fucking house that he's like, Nope, it's just coming off.

SPEAKER_00 35:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 35:26

Yeah, because it's the mask is just safe, I think, like fastened to her skin.

SPEAKER_00 35:29

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_04 35:30

Which can I just say, like, girl, you're out here stabbing yourself, like it's all fine and dandy with some Botox, okay? Maybe it got to your brain and you were acting a fool. Can I just say that? Because she was an idiot. And quite frankly, I thought that she died at the beginning. Like, when she got stabbed, I was like, Well, that's what you get for being fucking stupid. But then she didn't. And I was like, wow, maybe like the Botox gives you like an adrenaline adrenaline rush where like you just like, I don't know, I don't know how that shit works. But she was like out here, like fine and dandy, just like stabbing herself all great. And then in hindsight, if Arkin had known, it's like a ripping the mask off at the beginning would have not been a problem to her at that point because she's used to it. She's used to it, which is kind of nuts.

SPEAKER_01 36:15

It is interesting because I think in in many cases, when people are confronted with something as crazy as this, they either freeze and don't know what to do and they listen to directions kind of well, but they just move slowly, or they, you know, the the whole flight instinct kicks in and they try to just get away. I think by this point, she seemed like she was understanding what he was saying, you know, like she was like, Okay, okay, okay, yep. Scream, okay, got it, got it, I can do that. So it seemed really kind of backwards that as soon as like she can, she just goes running. She's like, Oh, he's gutted, I'm out of here. Yeah. And he's like, bruh, like we talked about this. Like, don't what are you doing?

SPEAKER_00 36:48

Bad decisions.

SPEAKER_01 36:49

That does take me though to my favorite thing to look at in this movie, and also simultaneously, one of the things I hated. So the collector's mask you mentioned earlier, Binks, but his eyes. I don't know why I hated it so much, but the combination between the two, like, I loved it. It was purely non-human.

SPEAKER_00 37:05

Right.

SPEAKER_02 37:06

It's that tie to his insect affinity. You know what I mean? He's obviously an exterminator, allegedly. He's uh you know, a master trap. He's so fond of these bugs, like he values that bug's life, gently takes it to the window, lets it ex escape. So to he see that creepy glare in his eyes, absolutely fantastic.

SPEAKER_04 37:26

It kind of reminds me of like, you know, when you're looking at, I guess like a dog and how they have that like that greenish tint over their eyes. I don't know why or what that's called, but that's what it reminded me of. Yeah, definitely inhuman and super bizarre. And he's got no lips, and he was moving his tongue around, and I didn't really like it. I didn't like it one bit. Also, well, you know, we're here talking favorite visuals, and I just feel like I'm gonna critique some of this. So, lol. But look, I I'm curious, maybe it's because I have new glasses, but was the grain exceptionally grainy in this film?

SPEAKER_00 37:58

The whole fucking film was exceptionally grainy.

SPEAKER_04 38:00

Okay, so it wasn't just me. Fantastic. I was like, Bianca, maybe this is your new glasses. Maybe they actually work. But bring it up just in case. I'm seeing it clearly.

SPEAKER_00 38:09

It is, you're seeing it, you're seeing it the way it's supposed to be seen. Garbage-like.

SPEAKER_02 38:15

Garbage-like. Yeah. See, that's the problem. Like, it it starts out and it immediately has that early 2000s blue-green tint. And granted, this one's supposed to be night. Like it opens up on the shot of their house with a construction tape and all that bullshit. But it immediately begins with the aesthetic that I absolutely dislike.

SPEAKER_04 38:35

I don't know, but I kind of like the grunge. The with the exception of C No Evil for sure. Because I don't. I don't. Well, I mean, although it's fitting, I just don't like it. But I I do have something to praise. A small moment. The overhead shot of Arkans kind of going into, I guess, what would be a closet or a bathroom and then just reaching around as the collector's going in, like that whole little chase moment overhead. And they do the overhead shot a few times throughout the movie. I thought that was pretty cool because sometimes I feel like we just get it like on ground, seeing them kind of move through the you know, through the hallways or whatever, as someone's passing, just ever so faintly miss each other, but seeing it overhead and actually seeing the dance was was pretty cool. I I like that.

SPEAKER_00 39:18

It was giving Scooby-Doo vibes.

SPEAKER_02 39:20

Exactly. Oh yeah. Love that. I did think of one slight compliment to counter your overhead shot, and it is the undershot of Larry when he's being electrocuted in what is definitely not standing water. Oh it's just wet, but they make it look like it's a pool. Absolutely wild. There's a fish swimming in there, right? Exactly. So it's a little absurd, but I think the one shot of him like convulsing from underneath as if it was on top of a glass table, that was acceptable.

SPEAKER_00 39:51

Yeah. Acceptable. I'm with you, Chris. Like I think it it was hard to find a lot of really great visuals, in my opinion, because everything did feel a little bit cheap. And I am with you and Mac on the uh eyes and the mask with the collector, but really a specific moment that really did it for me visually was um was when Jill first sees the collector crouching down while she's like, I don't know, they're having their little sexy time, and she and she sees him. I don't know if she's like looking upside down because she was like over the table or whatever, but when she sees the collector crouching down with those glowing eyes, that was like the perfect creepy moment for me and the whole movie.

SPEAKER_01 40:32

Yeah, that was a I was hoping that was going to happen because it was a perfect setup for one of them to at least see him. And it was like, you know, you're watching Pulp Fiction and the Gimp gets his revenge in the scene here. But yeah, that was that was definitely a cool, a cool little shot that like I think they built it in such a way that as the audience here, you're hoping you're the viewer and you're like, please see him, please. It's gonna be extra awesome and super gross if you do.

SPEAKER_02 40:54

Man, see, there it is, the best scene in the movie. It's him lurking in the shadows.

SPEAKER_04 40:59

We're talking about that creepy scene, and it's actually in some ways my favorite scene. Maybe it's a little bit cheating again. I know I sometimes do that. I dance the dance, but it's right before the kills, right before the actual, you know, stuff is going on. This Chad, the way that he dodges all of those traps multiple times, like he s is so close to getting multiple. And then what finishes him is a whole bed of bear traps is kind of nuts, but it's a perfect moment of like, oh my god, like he's almost it's this. Oh no, it's gonna be this. Oh no, she's gonna get got by this, like constantly, constantly, and then a sweet finale at the end.

SPEAKER_00 41:43

Yeah. Well, he did get his fingers chopped off, so he well, he was kind of forced into that one though.

SPEAKER_04 41:48

He was forced into that one, right? I'm talking about all the other like when he was about to step onto I think it was like nails or something on the staircase, but then they just back away and it's something else. Straight out of home alone, and then he almost hits like the wire, and that's what eventually will trips trips the thing. But yeah, straight out of home alone. That's true.

SPEAKER_01 42:05

His name is Chad. He does have to finish before Jill.

SPEAKER_04 42:08

So oh my god, Mac.

SPEAKER_00 42:10

Oh, there it is. There it is. There it is. That was great.

SPEAKER_01 42:14

Nice for my favorite scene. I have to go back earlier because it's it's kind of a fun one, almost like in a way. This was what gave me some actual hope for the movie. And that's when Arkin like just broke into the house. And I don't know if he just smelled the fart or something, but he realized the collector was there. You know, I don't know if he just heard a subtle sound off in the distance. Uh, but that whole like cat and mouse thing before all the insanity began, I liked that. That was a collector that I was okay with before it was just grew some torture. It was someone who's like, okay, so you know, Arkin here, he is he is a cat. He's a cat burglar.

SPEAKER_03 42:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:47

But this dude, he oh gosh, the collector, I don't even know what animal he's like. You know, it's is he the mouse or is he a snake? Because the way he moves is so fluid. It is it is really kind of perfect, and it does seem kind of like he's he's wasted on this film because he is almost too alien, too monstrous, too grotesque for I think, you know, grainy green. Um, but like that whole back and forth of them, like listening, hearing, is something there, is something not there, I'm not sure. That was actually really good and entertaining.

SPEAKER_02 43:17

I can respect that. In some moments, though, it was giving, is the Grinch about to have Cindy Lou Who coming down the stairs? Like, that's the energy it gave me. I'm just gonna be like, whoops, you got me.

SPEAKER_00 43:28

Dang. I had a couple of scenes that I thought were pretty good. The opening scene I thought was was pretty good when Larry and Gina are getting home and find that mysterious red chest in their bedroom with the note from the collector, and then Larry just opening that chest and the look of horror on his face right before he's like attacked from behind was a great way to open the film. So I thought that was really, really good. And then towards the end, I really enjoyed when Arkin tricks the collector using the mirror and then you. This is his own trap against him, the little knife chandelier. I thought that was also a pretty good little setup there.

SPEAKER_01 44:06

That was that was a great setup, and that was one of the more rewarding points in the movie. And I wish the movie ended there. Like, oh, we got him.

SPEAKER_02 44:13

For sure.

SPEAKER_01 44:14

Yep, got him.

SPEAKER_02 44:15

By his own trap. Can I share a scene that really grinded my gears? And Mac, I'm curious to see what your feelings were on this. And I say scene, and that's very generous. That's a very liberal use of the word. But the opening credits sequence, what the fuck, folks? It was bright flashing lights and like extreme close-ups on home's trap adjacent things and blueprints. And it started off mostly on beat. And here's the thing: I can separate when it's okay. I know that this is just classic early to late 2000s style of grunge that I know I'm not gonna like, but it is executed properly within its style. But here it starts mostly on beat and then just falls off the beat completely as it goes on. And it's just like erratic, overstimulating, but not in a way that feels unnerving, but just like a why they really fuck this one up overstimulating.

SPEAKER_01 45:07

This the whole aesthetic of this film takes me back to the 2000s when a lot of my peers at that time had access to Photoshop for the first time. And so they started learning things like, hey, if your skin looks bad, blur your skin, then add some noise, and then it you can't tell that necessarily you blurred your skin. It's like a good way to hide it, right? And your photos suddenly look like you look better. But in reality, you look back and you're like, God, your photos look like crap, right? You can tell that you did this. But it also reminds me of when I think around the same time people started learning about contrast. And then, you know, if you do funny things with a contrast, maybe you'll look a little bit better or maybe you'll look a little bit worse, and you just like jack it up or lower it, and maybe uh maybe people will think you're more attractive. It gives me that whole vibe. But that that uh that credit scene was a hundred percent the you wouldn't steal a car PSA. That's what it was. That was the energy it was giving me. And if you want a good intro credit scene, just freaking roll the tape and put the credits at the bottom like every TV show has done for like 50 years, okay? That's gonna be effective. We're all gonna be fine with it, we're not gonna think anything of it. But when you try to jam this early 90s influenced grunge into the 2000s, it just reads as, I just learned about contrast. And it was, it's not a I don't think it's a good look.

SPEAKER_04 46:23

I'm debating whether I even want to follow or like rebuttal anything like that because my entire thought process is that's me. I'm I'm your peers. I'm you're talking about me. This entire speech you just gave was literally me. And is me? Meanwhile, I'm here like, yes, my MySpace photos did have extreme contrast, high noise, and blurred, okay? I was doing my best with the little ability that I had, okay, on PickMonkey and you know, and Photoshop. So let's just call it for what it is. A. B, I think it at this point we've established, and I'm not gonna speak for Sean, but I'm really hoping that Sean will back me up a little bit, that like, you know, Sean and I have very similar like music tastes and styles and stuff. So I'm dying inside because of course the both of you would not like this opening credit scene. And I literally said earlier that the opening credits were my vibe and I was here for it, and it set the tone, and I'm just like, what is wrong with me? Like, am I okay?

SPEAKER_02 47:27

Let the record show I do love you and Sean.

SPEAKER_00 47:30

Yeah, I didn't, it didn't bother me. I'll put it that way. It wasn't like the best thing in the movie, but it didn't bother me in the way that it did for them.

SPEAKER_01 47:38

Look, there's nothing wrong with it, okay? If you enjoy sitting in a 1997 Toyota Corolla and listening to uh, what was that, disturbed, okay? If that's your vibe. Come on and get down with the sickness and you get like a mixture of of cigarettes and and and and car freshener, if that's you, that's okay. There's nothing wrong with that.

SPEAKER_04 47:57

But you know what? Thanks, Mac. That is me. And I enjoy it. Just kind of like shocked and like laughing at myself. Like, man, I really get called out every fucking time that we do these 2000s movies. I get called out so hard for loving this, like, you know, very grunge and really shitty aesthetic.

SPEAKER_01 48:13

It's it's okay, you know? There's just there's notes of Jaegermeister and cigarette ash. And that's, you know, that's okay.

SPEAKER_00 48:20

Well, see, that was my jam in the 90s, okay? Jaegermeister and cigarettes.

SPEAKER_04 48:25

Jaegermeister. Oh no, the trauma.

SPEAKER_01 48:28

But I really feel like that fits almost everyone in the film as well. Not just the way it looks, but it filled it, it it fits the people. Arkin here, Arkin smokes three packs a day. A hundred percent.

SPEAKER_02 48:39

Okay. And after this, 20 packs a day. Honestly, Arkin looks like he smells terrible. That's the number one, that's the number one thing I could think. He looks like he smells fucking awful.

SPEAKER_04 48:50

Maybe that's why why his wife like left him. His wife had enough of his shit and like him smelling like shit.

SPEAKER_00 48:56

It really felt like they weren't not together. Yeah. You know this whole thing about the ex-wife, but when he goes to like see her and he's like, Don't worry, baby, and he like kisses her. Like, it doesn't feel ex-wife vibes to me, but it's giving estranged at best.

SPEAKER_02 49:10

It's giving on the cusp of divorce, but not quite there. Because they can't afford one.

SPEAKER_00 49:17

Ah, there it is.

SPEAKER_01 49:18

I do, I do enjoy though when we get a killer in a movie and we understand perhaps why, like, what's their deal. I I don't need to know where they were born, you know. I don't need I don't need a Michael Myers that like tells me his favorite color when he was seven. Don't need that. I do under I do like understanding like some sort of motivation here. And like it's hinted at. It's hinted that like he's down with the bugs, he's down with the vermin, and he like respects them more than humans, and he thinks humans should be, you know, dis disposed of. Like we think of bugs. Cool, I get it. I just feel like there's a little bit more missing as to why on earth he would have targeted this family, why on earth perhaps he targeted Arkin? I don't even know.

SPEAKER_02 49:57

You know why? Because roll the tape. Every day you wake up looking to squash the pests in your homes, but perhaps it's you who should be squashed. I think he fucking targets people who fucking pays for extermination.

SPEAKER_00 50:09

Interesting.

SPEAKER_02 50:09

That's what it is. That's all it is. I think it's as simple as that.

SPEAKER_00 50:13

Yeah, I don't know. I was just gonna say we literally get nothing, but I thought that in it's a it's I'm I'm like, I don't know. I'm like teeter-tottering with the character of the collector because I think, in essence, I agree that the character of the collector is really good. There's a there's a a mysterious thing about him, right? Something dreadfully sinister, but at the same time, I don't know if it's because they don't give us anything about him or they just don't really give us anything in the backstory of this film to set anything up to make anything make sense outside of this burglary that's happening that just kind of throws you off. And I don't know how to feel about that. Because to your point, Mac, you have one end of the spectrum where you have what Rob Zombie did to Michael Myers in Halloween and went way too far humanizing something that didn't need to be humanized, and then you have the other end of the spectrum here where it's just like, yo, here's this dude doing this thing, and then that's all you need to know, homie.

SPEAKER_04 51:15

And I mean, I guess I don't necessarily mind it though, because I I just took it immediately at face value that this guy just so happened to decide to target this particular family and fuck their lives up. Point blank, period. He's out here to collect people. It's not because they're special of any kind or anything of that nature, it's just happenstance. Although, if it is the thing about extermination and all that of people that pay for exterminators, I mean, not only is that convenient for him to then collect people, but that layer of him being a fan of insects and all that and not wanting to, you know, hurt them, but versus hurt the people that hurt them, I guess that's pretty deep for this movie.

SPEAKER_02 52:01

I think it's the only thing that makes sense for me. And then now as I think about this more, right? We have the opening scene where obviously Larry and Gina's house has had some construction. There's a crew that that he thinks may have left this box, right? So it's already immediate, it's already immediately apparent that this collector has some kind of access to their home with that. And when you see the construction on the second house, it's like, alright, confirmation, done. It's someone who's working on this crew, you have the lingering eyes. They made that very, very obvious. So that was not a twist for me, that wasn't a shock for me when he has this realization. However, it makes me think, think given the potential that this movie has, I'd like to see it done almost in the style, or at least the same cinema cinematic style of the Watcher series on Netflix.

SPEAKER_04 52:52

That's a great series because it's similar with construction happening, yeah, we're not giving too much away about this show. But yeah, I can see that. I wouldn't have been upset, but I still would have probably slashed it.

SPEAKER_02 53:04

There you go. We'll take it. I think where I struggle though is the motive for Arkin needing this money was so unnecessarily complex. I feel like his whole deal of going to the strip club, finding someone to get this stone, literally, it could have just been a robbery. It could have been down on your luck, it could have been any fucking thing beyond his wife has a debt that she owes to Lone Sharks and he has a midnight deadline. It added unnecessary convolution to the entire thing.

SPEAKER_04 53:37

Which is funny because ultimately I blacked out during that whole explanation, anyways. I like I could care less regardless. Like they probably would have captivated me more with a simpler concept than having to create this whole web of well, the irony now that I say that out loud, like web in the spider, but you know, like why did I need to know a deadline and all this? Like, oh, like you said, I'm down on my luck, I need money, I'm out here, you know, gonna mess up my or like like steal from my employer.

SPEAKER_02 54:06

Here's the thing I don't really give a shit about Arkan. I don't care if Arkin lives or dies. In fact, when Arkan is captured at the end of this movie, fucking good riddance. If y'all tell me that he dies in the collection, maybe I'll watch it. I could not care about this man less. I think his daughter and his wife would be better off without him. That's just me. However, I would have really enjoyed losing that whole angle where it tries to humanize him and give him a reason for caring about this family and caring about this employer. Make him just another guy hired on this site, and it's a crime of opportunity. I don't need all this bullshit backstory on Arkin. I don't need any of it. I think if if anything, it distracted from who he could have been. But someone who goes in there just to steal something because he saw an opportunity to, and then has to go through these evolved choices of what do I do? Do I get the fuck out? Do I try to help these people? That could have been way more interesting.

SPEAKER_01 55:06

We needed less humanization for him and more for the collector. We needed to straight a little bit off. Because at the end when he's sitting there with a gigantic fake rock in his hands, which is obscene, by the way, it just honestly feels ridiculous, especially because it's midnight, you didn't make it in time, bro. That whole story kind of wasted. Um I I think we we should have seen more showing how the people who were targeted were bad. There's obvious, like seven vibes going on here. And I think that would have been the necessary motivation. It doesn't have to be, you know, sins or whatever, but I I think there does have to be something he's going after that's made clear. And I think for Arkin it was too clear. Like you said, it was too much. That's I actually enjoyed the story because it reminds me of Ant-Man, and maybe that's what uh the little thing was that bothered me. Uh it's like, why do I actually care? And it's because it reminds me of Ant-Man. But it's it is it is and should be simple, you know. These these both these people are criminals, they both have opportunity, and they both have the means. All we need to see now is their motive. And that you have an hour and a half to play that out. You don't have to give us too much, you just have to give us enough to understand their motive. And I think that moment when he has the little tea party, that's the humanization. That's all we get. That's all we need. We he sits down with you know, just to humor the child and that he cares and that he can care. Boom. That's good enough right there. That's why he cares about the family and wants to rescue them right there, because he had that sort of connection. He was there long enough around them. He's a human, he's not that far of a criminal. You can save 20 minutes out of the movie right there just by highlighting that little scene.

SPEAKER_00 56:39

I also don't know how I feel about finding my contractor having a fucking tea party with my daughter.

SPEAKER_02 56:45

Bro, in no situation is that okay. Okay, not only am I gonna find this man with my daughter, I'm gonna buy it when he just says, got one on my own. Yeah, immediately checks out. As if no fucking serial killer has ever been a fucking parent. What the hell, dude? Michael, maybe you're just blind and oblivious, and that's how you didn't notice this man entering your fucking house. Fucking wild. But then to not only just be like, okay, well, alright then. He then says, Let me just give you some more money. Listen, at the at the idea, had we not had the tea party moment, I would have been like, man, so this this guy is just a good guy. Like he's rich and you kind of be like, oh well, he's probably an asshole. But he has some level of compassion. So I actually don't even think I want or need the family having bad shit. You know what I mean? I do just think they're too high on their pedestal and too oblivious and too lured into this sense of security. It's really interesting, then even looking back though, that his wife really wants bars on the window. He doesn't want it, but she does.

SPEAKER_01 57:54

Yeah. Yeah, we we we spend two seconds on that, you know, and then we see it later in the film. It was a Chekhov's gun. That's all it was, when it really should have been a tell about their character.

SPEAKER_02 58:04

All this to say, I might surprise you when I tell you what the best part of this movie is for me. Because it is the cheesiest part of it. It is the part that I think is not the most clever, but it is the Master Trap Exterminator van. It's a little bit of foreshadowing, right? And if they could have just like not said it at all, like they they said the name of the Exterminator Company at the very end of the movie by the cop, and I'm just like, okay, you didn't even say it out loud, now it's less cool. It like sounds silly when you say it, but the placement of that and the linking of the construction sites, I just absolutely enjoyed that. It when it was just distant in the background.

SPEAKER_01 58:42

That is that is a good little moment. It was fun to see it ripped off too, because then I felt like it was a good setup for anything else to happen afterwards. Like maybe another sign goes up with a completely different job, and then we get to see, you know, the sequel go into that.

SPEAKER_02 58:55

Yeah, jokes on you. That van is just the hackerslash mobile, and it's all our fake sponsors.

SPEAKER_01 59:00

I think my worst part of the film is probably shared by a couple of you. Um actually, there's two worst parts of the film, but I think the most, the most horrible part of the film is maiming and and murdering animals. I think that is inexcusable and I think it was completely unnecessary. It added nothing to the film. It actually only took away from the film. And honestly, the the moment where we got to the cat being maimed and then tossed aside by Arkin, it was like, okay, so first of all, you almost had me liking him way more than I way more than I should. But then the way he treats that animal, you just humanized him a little bit ago. So how are you gonna do that? How are you gonna show that he doesn't care about animals in any way? If you were a decent human being that cared about his family, he would be like, Oh my god, this poor cat, like what can I do? No, he's just like rip and throws it and then the frickin' window cuts like decapitates it. The filmmakers are sick. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02 59:52

Okay, well now we've established Arkin is a cat hater. He uh kills a dog and he uses the F Slur.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:02

Fuck that guy.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:03

Terrible.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:04

He's in the deep red, he's in the deep, deep red, the heavy, deep red. Yeah, you know, obviously the worst part for me is the animal report in general. Both kills were absolutely atrocious, unnecessary. Why do the thing that annoys me is like, why do some of these horror movies have pets in the film when it doesn't do anything? I'll give you an example. Like Funny Games. I don't know if we've all seen it or not, or whatever. Animal Report, not stellar. However, the purpose of having a pet in that film works because it establishes the family. This does not establish the family at all. This family does not give I'm a cat owner and a dog owner and like maybe No, no, they don't. They're not giving pet friendly. So why even include them? So whatever. Aside from the animal report, because I feel like that's gonna be a you know a universal hate for this one. The worst part is my own toxic trait that like the alternate ending, which by the way, Mac, I did end up seeing, I too would have continued to run and left that little girl behind in that house. However, in the actual movie, he didn't, so that's fine. But that's my toxic trait, and I'm opening up, you know, I'm opening up and I'm being honest with myself. I would have left that little girl behind. I would have tried to get more appropriate help, that's for sure, because I certainly can't save her. And quite frankly, I would have never even made it out of the house with all these death traps, obviously. But let's just say I did, I would not go back for her. It's just the fact of the matter. I'm with you.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:36

I absolutely would have, and that's my toxic trait. I have no self-preservation whatsoever. No, no, it's the correct trait.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:43

I I said toxic trait because I would literally let possibly let that little girl die. Yikes. So hey, but you know what? Like, if I made it so far to get out of that house, the chances of me going back in and surviving are so slim because they were already slim for me.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:00

Yeah, look what happened. And he looked at that in that house forever for that girl, to be fair. I agree with the animal thing, right? Obviously, everyone dislikes that. I I don't really know what they were trying to do with this whole spider metaphor for the collector being like this spider having some sort of fascination with bugs and especially spiders since they emphasized it so many times, like trapping everyone in his little fucking web of death.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:26

That's it. That's all there is to it.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:28

That's all there is to it. But like it just felt like the the spiders one looked like shit. They they looked obviously fake. One the one in the beginning looked fucking huge. Uh, and it and it just didn't add any value for me. It felt forced. Like the one little little try to attempt at like what this guy is all about just didn't resonate with me at all. Like it just I don't know, something about it just didn't resonate. But and maybe it is due to the lack of knowledge that we have about the killer and specifically why he is doing all of these things, especially why he's keeping some of his victims in that red chest, because that no fucking idea either. But at the same time, I also kind of like the mystery of the collector. So, like, where's the balance here, right? That's what I was talking about earlier in the in the episode of like, what do you give us and what do you not give us? And I think the things that they chose to give us just didn't make sense or it just didn't resonate. Like, it just didn't maybe, maybe we're gonna get something in this sequel that happened years later. I don't know, but until we watch that movie, I guess we just don't have any answers to these questions.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:36

You know, I I want to just emphasize how powerful it is that you said unless we watch that movie, we will have answers to these questions because I don't even think there's more to gain from watching this movie again. I watched it once, didn't watch it, didn't want to watch it again, and then Lucas, bless you. I know that you and I have been on opposite things, on opposite sides of the fence here in this episode. I still love you dearly. However, you are the only reason I've watched this again. You and 50% of the patron vote never again.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:07

Don't come down so hard on Lucas.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:10

No, no, this is not coming down hard on Lucas. This is just saying, my love for you is so great, I put myself through this again, but never again.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:18

Never again.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:19

Yeah, I I don't think I'll watch this ever again. I think, kind of like we said earlier, I want to see the collection just to know what happens next because I'm hoping there's some sort of redemption for this for the story arc. I secretly, and and on honestly not secretly, I hope that the collector dies. And I probably won't get to see that. But I I would love for that to happen. In terms of Arkan, I just hope that Arkan shows back up and does something to the collector. Even if he dies in like the first five minutes, get a Sabin. Get something good to go on. That's all I'm that's all I'm hoping for.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:51

I was like, he better. He said he was gonna eat his fucking heart. That'd be fucking uh it would be anticlimactic. It would be a prophecy unfulfilled, unfinished business, if you will.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:01

Yeah, I agree. I don't think there is a ton of rewatch value here. I I think I, you know, I know that obviously we're talking about watching the collection. Uh, so I'll probably give that a shot just to see what happens to this storyline. Yeah, and maybe we learn a little bit more about this mysterious collector, but outside of that, I agree. This is a one and done for me.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:22

You see, a part of me is thinking and trying to strategize here where maybe some way, somehow, we will eventually do an episode on the collection.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:34

But the problem is that if I hold out to see the collection until we do that, then what if I forget the collector and then I have to rewatch it again so that I can actually like fully understand? So I think I'm just gonna watch the collection now so that I don't have to re watch this movie again unless I were to do like one of those like YouTube uh speed it up in a five minutes type of situations or like. Read the synopsis or something. Because I just don't want to have to watch those animals be destroyed and then have to watch this guy say the F-word three times consecutively. It's giving so much cringe and disgust that although I did slash this because I was angry, I don't want to have to do that again. I don't have to feel angry in this way again.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:23

Well, I think that only makes sense. Maybe you should watch the collection and just get it out of the way. But for now, let's see if there's anything that Matt can do to add some value to this movie in fact or fiction.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:34

Number one, Josh Stewart spent three months training to be physically fit enough for his role as Arkin.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:39

Um, that lanky ass boy, yeah, right. Fiction.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:44

Uh yeah, I mean, I don't know truly, you know, what he looked like prior to making this film, and maybe he had to drop a little bit of weight, so I'll go fact just to see what happens.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:55

Alright, this one is a fiction, and I'll give you a quote. He said, I was in good shape, but I wasn't in that kind of shape, and I got the job so late in the game that there was really no time to prepare. It's like if someone calls and says, You're gonna go play football to you, and you haven't rained in three weeks, and now you have 90 minutes to play. You would be like, I can tough it out, but I'm gonna be sucking wind in like 15 minutes.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:14

Yeah, that that checks. You know, I'm just saying again though, he's in the finest hours and he's looking real muscly. Banks, you might like it. Let me Google this real quick.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:24

Number two. Juan Fernandez stated that he needed help walking to the bathroom while in costume as the collector, due to basically being blinded.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:34

I mean, the m I don't see how the mask itself would blind him, but maybe whatever they did to make his eyes look like that, I could see him not being able to see very well. But again, contacts, you can see through contacts, so I don't I don't know. I'm gonna go fiction actually, because I think like, no, these special effects contacts I think you're still able to see through.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:55

Remember the bullshit that was the evil dead contacts, though.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:58

That's true. That's true, but that was like we're talking about couple few decades of time, and we haven't invented better context.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:06

You know, I'm gonna think about budget here. I'm gonna think about what possibly might be a heavy mask and stuff. I just feel like a lot of things are just, you know, working against his favor, so I'm gonna say fact.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:19

Okay, this one is a fact. He had to wear two different sets of contacts. One was black plastic with full eye coverage, and one had a glass mirror. They would have to give him eye drops now and then and a few minutes to like relax from the scratching that they would cause in his eyes, and he would basically get into like a meditative state. Terrible.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:36

Very terrible.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:37

Yeah, these days we would just CGI it. Honestly, these days we would just have AI generate the entire movie, but you know, 2023.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:44

Here's the thing. They have the they fucking CGI'd those spiders and they couldn't CGI this motherfucker's eyes. Okay, that's too much and that's a lot, okay? Let's let's every give everyone a break. It's 2009. No, okay. It would have been easier to do the eyes than the fucking spiders. For sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:59

Probably, but thank God they didn't do the eyes because the spiders look like fucking shit.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:03

Yeah, there we go. Sean said it.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:05

Number three. In an interview, screenwriter Patrick Melton stated he was shocked that people didn't react well to Arkans being placed in the box at the end of the film.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:13

He was shocked. I'm gonna go fiction because how could you not be shocked that the fucking main like protagonist gets it at the end? Like that for me was frustrating. Like, you get the g you save the girl, cool. That's great. I think that's the only character anyone ever really cared about, but but the fact that, like, I don't know, maybe it was just because he ran into a fucking car in the middle of the night with poor visibility in the rain. That's his own poor decisions, but still, I was still shocked that he got collected, okay?

SPEAKER_04 1:09:43

Really? I I I wasn't. I was like, oh, for sure. What a classic way to just like give a little cliffhanger is that this this guy, after everything that he went through, he got got. So I'm gonna say I'm gonna say fiction because I don't think he was shocked whatsoever, but neither was I.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:02

Alright, this one is a fiction. He did acknowledge that half the audience liked it and the other half was bummed. Um, I guess we're just gonna have to wait until we cover the collection to see what the heck they're gonna do with that twisted killer next.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:13

Fine.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:14

And number four, back in 2019, Josh Stewart tweeted about a third installment in the collector franchise called The Collected. Two years later, Marcus Dunson and Patrick Melton stated it might not happen. But in May of 2023, Dunson tweeted his thoughts about making a prequel using the original title of The Midnight Man.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:31

Hmm. I I haven't heard anything about any of this. The only thing I ever read about was that there was the sequel, and then I mentioned that the third installment should be called The Collected because it makes the most sense, but I didn't read that anywhere, and nor do I think this should or deserve a prequel, so I'm hoping this is a fiction.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:53

Yeah, look, I'm not on Twitter.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:54

I didn't even know that this movie existed, so I'm going to say that it's fiction, but I'm a little nervous because anything's possible, and a lot of people are coming out of the woodwork trying to revive and remake these 2000s movies, so I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:09

Alright, this is a fiction, but yes, Stuart did tweet about a movie called The Collected, and yes, Dunsen and Melton said creative disinterest likely killed that movie. But no prequel has been mentioned, and this collection is probably still gonna be limited to just two films.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:24

Chris's face.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:25

Creative disinterest is exactly how I would summarize my feelings on this movie.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:31

Oh, it's so perfect, and that has been fact or fiction.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:34

Well, there you have it, folks. Once again, the collector has earned one hack, and this time it earned three slashes. We've certainly had a robust discussion here, but it doesn't end here by any means. We want to know what you think.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:46

Would you have survived the collector's death traps? Let us know. You can join on the conversation by hanging out with us for free in our Discord. Click the link in our show notes to sign up.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:54

If you've enjoyed listening to this episode and want to nominate a movie to our collection yourself, consider becoming one of our patrons. Visit patreon.com slash hacker slash to enjoy more of the show with early access, extended episodes, bonus content, and live shows.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:11

But don't freak, it's just a show.