285: The Nun (2018)

SPEAKER_00 0:06

I'm sorry, you mean Dave Cook?

SPEAKER_02 0:12

Greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hacker Slash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. Whatever happens, whatever you may see or hear, keep your eyes forward and don't stop praying. If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack.

SPEAKER_03 0:32

A total joke, a waste of time.

SPEAKER_02 0:34

Or a slash. Totally killer. Pun intended. We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, we're rating these movies with the perspective we've gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slash enthusiast. This week I'm joined by the classic horror connoisseur Sean.

SPEAKER_04 0:51

It seems like that's as much as an invitation as we're gonna get.

SPEAKER_02 0:54

And the paranormal paramour, Binx. I'm French Canadian. This week we're diving deeper into an unholy tale that expands the narrative of the conjuring cinematic universe. Before we start our perpetual adoration, though, we have some follow-up.

SPEAKER_04 1:07

Let's follow up on a season. So we're about halfway through our spooky season celebration now, and we are so excited to see how our listeners have come together in our Discord server.

SPEAKER_02 1:19

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:20

Right, right? And if you haven't joined in on the fun yet, you can earn points by joining in the community, chatting with our other listeners about all things horror, and attending our community events throughout the month as well. And on September 1st, we're going to announce our top three winners who will each receive a special package of merch that matches our spooky season theme, which is pretty, pretty freaking cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:44

Nice. I can't wait for y'all to see what it is. That's super cool. And not gonna lie, um, just saying on a special day, it's the day before my birthday, so a little gift.

SPEAKER_04 1:54

Awesome. We're now halfway through our spooky preseason celebration, and we're so excited to see how our listeners have come together in our Discord server.

SPEAKER_02 2:01

Well, as we journey further into the labyrinth of the conjuring franchise, we find ourselves at the very beginning of the universe's timeline. Though it's the fifth film to be released, it's the first in terms of the story's chronology. This film follows the journey of a priest with a past that's essentially a tapestry of haunting memories, and a novice standing on the precipice of her final vows. They're dispatched by the Vatican to the distant lands of Romania, where they are tasked with investigating the mysterious death of a young woman at an abbey. What they encounter, though, is far more than a simple mystery. They come face to face with an entity of pure malevolence, a force of evil that takes the form of a demon that has infiltrated the abbey. This week we're talking about the nun. Who's seen this one before?

SPEAKER_04 2:45

Yeah, I saw this one right around the time that it came out, but that was, I think, the only time that I've watched this film until it came like into the lineup for the podcast. And, you know, I'm a big fan of the whole conjuring universe. You know, at least like all of the lore surrounding it and all the different stories that are tied to it. I just feel like as much as they're able to really branch off and tell you more and more about this universe, it's just very compelling.

SPEAKER_02 3:08

Yeah, I've never seen this one before. And within the conjuring universe, I've really fucked up this whole watch experience because I've only seen The Conjuring, The Cursor La Lorona, and Annabelle Creation, and now this. So I've really got some homework ahead of me. I actually, after even watching this movie, wanted to go back and watch The Conjuring 2, didn't find it streaming anywhere, so I decided to say fuck it and just watch The Conjuring 3, The Devil Made Me Do It. So, you know, I'm I'm trying to take every wrong step possible.

SPEAKER_03 3:39

Yeah, you're jumping all over the place.

SPEAKER_02 3:41

It's okay, it's a journey.

SPEAKER_00 3:42

It's the live laugh lover.

SPEAKER_03 3:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:45

Well, I have to agree, you're going all over the place, which as a conjuring universe simp, that gives me a little bit of anxiety. But I am a massive fan of Valik or the Nun as a character. She's incredibly frightening. I even have a Funko pop of her that my mom gifted me. However, if you can believe it though, I have never seen this movie until now. What? Fucking wild. I have never seen it until now. And it's honestly a big part of why is because I heard it was just so terrible, and I didn't want to feel disappointed if I could be honest. Like I love Valyx so much and I just didn't want to be disappointed. However, knowing that they were making a second one and seeing how fun the trailer looked for it, I was honestly expecting to be an outlier and enjoy this movie more than most people. I was expecting big jump scares, and that's a given, obviously. But I don't know, I I I figured that this was going to be the very like eeriness and what makes Valix so intimidating, like on another level. And I love a family moment with Vera Farmiga's little sister, now starring in the Conjuring Universe, like the sisterhood with that, Stellar.

SPEAKER_03 4:53

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 4:54

They're an excellent pair of actresses, both in the Bates Motel and then American Horror Story. I've never seen either of them and something I dislike them in. Fact. They're very, very good.

SPEAKER_04 5:04

Yeah. I I could tell you what I was expecting when this movie first came out. I was expecting this one to give us some really good backstory to arguably one of the creepiest horror characters in horror cinema, right? Like just that, it's just a polarizing kind of view to see that evil demonic nun, right? Like just a creepy, creepy visual. And I I was not sure, however, like exactly like how or if they were going to tie in anything from like the conjuring films into this, right? I had no idea. Were they gonna tie in Ed and Lorraine Warren into the story somehow? Not sure. Obviously, this is going back in time and whatnot. And honestly, coming out of the conjuring and the conjuring too, I had some high expectations for this one to be pretty good.

SPEAKER_02 5:46

You know, it's really interesting to hear the disparity between both of you kind of going into this. Banks, you said that you had heard that it was terrible. I only heard that it was great, that people loved the shit out of this. I heard that people found it very scary. And Sean, you said you had high expectations going into it, which seems reasonable. For me, I was expecting it to ooze Catholicism, really basic jump scares, Easter eggs to the rest of the franchise that would definitely fly over my head, flashbacks as a James Wan tactic, and stellar cinematography. That was really what I what I knew we'd probably get. I also expected, though, for the level of fright I had to be dependent upon me being able to connect with this in a personal way, and I find that to be the case for most religion-based horde out there, either but either by way of like practicing Catholicism or appreciating the extent of the evil that it portrays. So I felt like if I didn't connect to one of those two, if neither of those resonated with me, then I wouldn't be afraid of anything in this movie. And let me tell you, for the majority of the time, I didn't feel nearly a whole damn thing. And that sounds crazy, but it's not a bad thing. I don't mean it in a bad way. I think I'm generally in a place of being numb and maybe a little a little bit overstimulated by life. But this could have gone the way where I was completely bored and disconnected. And that's not exactly what happened here. Instead, though, it had my attention the whole way through. And while I didn't react to the scares of some of the more emotional moments, I did realize about 75% of the way in, I had just like this slight bit of dread and tension that was creeping up on me very slowly the further we got into the third act.

SPEAKER_04 7:34

Hmm. Yeah, I you know what, you know what? This this film is very atmospheric, right? Like the it's the best way that I can describe it. Like I felt like I was immersed in the atmosphere of the whole film. Like I really loved I well, in general, I really love that time period in films and and stories for some reason. I think, you know, it just adds to like you're you're in this like old castle church, it's dark, right? I think that is just something that gives you that kind of feeling of maybe what you're talking about in general, just the atmosphere and the lighting and and all of that, and building on the dread or the tension in the film, and it doesn't necessarily have to actually be super intense or scary. It's just the atmosphere alone just kind of draws you in a little bit. So I think I I I think I know where you're coming from. Maybe, maybe I'm on the same wavelength, I don't know, but it was really just the whole scenery for me.

SPEAKER_00 8:26

Yeah, and I agree. I I definitely like the vibe of those kinds of um horror movies or just in general, because it's giving, I guess, like haunted house a bit, but even though it's not, right? I don't know. That there's definitely dread to it. But to your point, Chris, earlier, where you're like, I didn't really feel anything. I I felt things, but I want to say the first thought that I had was, is my hearing well? Why can't I hear a damn thing?

SPEAKER_04 8:48

Like it was low.

SPEAKER_00 8:49

It was really low, right? And I have a sound like a sound bar that's pretty shitty, I'm not gonna lie, but I was putting it at very high. Whereas if I were to put something else, I'm pretty sure the association would kick me out of my apartment.

SPEAKER_02 9:03

Okay. I have a confession, and I'm so glad you fucking brought that up, Binx, because I started watching this and I fell asleep because I could not really remain super focused because of the audio. It was so fucking low. It wasn't even low in the way of like the scares that come out to get you, and then like it really breaks it up. It was just low all around. But I restarted it today, and I restarted it with wearing headphones. I had it on my AirPods Max. That and the fucking audio quality in there, and just having the proximity so close to my ears, I honestly had such a different experience watching it, and I think I was able to feel more invested in it because I was listening to it with headphones. So I imagine in a theatrical experience, like uh with like Adolby experience, I imagine that would have been great, but I can completely see what you mean about the audio just like being so off.

SPEAKER_04 9:56

Yeah, I I had that same problem. Dang.

SPEAKER_00 9:58

And then and then it feels like it's whispering, you know, like they're whispering sweet nothings to you, but I guess the sweet nothings are prayers, and I I don't know, it was just very bizarre.

SPEAKER_04 10:07

It was like that comedian back in the day that would make fun of like trying to like take orders in the drive-thru, and the guy would be like, and just order the pickles.

SPEAKER_00 10:15

I'm sorry, you mean Dane Cook?

SPEAKER_04 10:16

Yeah, Dane Cook, yeah. And UK's like, what?

SPEAKER_00 10:21

The pickles. Yes, wow, you sent me back. Okay. No, but for real, for it really was like that. It was just so low. And then on top of that, another thing, like I don't know, overall, I just felt like I was nitpicking things and not really immersing myself in the story or in the movie like I had anticipated. Like the CGI was killing it, was killing me a bit. Like I was just not impressed by some of the scares. Like at one point, I've shit you not, like, I literally laughed at what seemed to me like you're gonna love this, Chris. Like the Imperial Army, like the like the stormtroopers, like if they just come into a church, okay, like there was a moment that was like that that I was like, what am I watching?

SPEAKER_02 11:05

Okay, that exact moment I equated to another movie, but not in a bad way. And I cannot wait to talk about that. I also had a Star Wars moment in this movie too. This is gonna be great. I can't I cannot fucking wait to unpack this in the second half.

SPEAKER_00 11:19

Yeah, and I and then so all of that being said, like I feel like I'm dishing out a couple disappointments. So I'm just gonna get into that next because for me, one of the biggest disappointments about this movie was how it freaking starts. And I'm not trying to and I'm not going to spoil anything, I'm not trying to, but I I think we've already set the precedence that this is like a prequel, right? For who the nun is. It's like an origin story of who the nun is. There's like a recap moment at the beginning of the movie. So I I struggle with this because, like you mentioned in the introduction, like this is chronologically, this is the first movie of the Conjuring universe. But yet the way that they start this movie is almost like, don't do that. And it's confusing. And I think you just have to kind of watch the other Conjuring movies then to even understand how this movie starts. Because if not, you're just gonna be confused. It doesn't make sense whatsoever. And it was just oh, I left a bad taste in my mouth right off the bat.

SPEAKER_02 12:18

1000%. Absolutely. I felt immediately like I had made a terrible mistake when I started it because I'm like, fuck man, I'm really depriving myself of something. And I don't even think that whole bit is necessary at all. I feel like you could have really just jumped into things here instead of previously on the conjuring. Yep. You know what I mean? It's like this isn't a fucking episode of Pretty Little Liars, bro. A thousand percent. And that's what you missed.

SPEAKER_04 12:45

They were working really hard to try and tie everything together when it just necessarily wasn't necessary.

SPEAKER_02 12:51

This is exactly the problem with a lot of James Wan work, though. When I tell you about how like he applies this method in the first film that he does, but then even other films in the franchise, even if he's not directly involved with the creative helm, it takes on the same application where it gets heavy-handed. He overuses flashbacks. This, it's like it's it's not enough to just make something cohesive, it forces that cohesion down your throat and treats you as though you're not intelligent enough to piece it together.

SPEAKER_00 13:19

Yeah, well, I definitely uh can see that now. I know that you discussed that in the past, and I just feel like I didn't really understand that fully until now, and it was like a gut punch. I was like, that James, Jamie, why? Why'd you gotta do that to me?

SPEAKER_04 13:33

Yeah, I mean, I I agree to some of these points. Like I was I was actually a little a little disappointed in certain aspects of the of the story in general. I felt like, you know, sometimes it was almost like, I don't know, a bit basic and and just really stretching for some things of not only what you're talking about with the previously on, you know, the conjuring or whatever, but even just some of the things they tried to do to like make the story flow or give you the origins of how some of we, you know, where we are in this film, it just kind of felt a little bit like a stretch in some areas, which we'll talk about later. I was, however, surprised by how much the movie drew me in, talking to what I talked about earlier with just the whole visual aspect of the film. I I it almost served as an ingenious distraction from the lackluster storyline they were feeding us.

SPEAKER_02 14:22

I can understand that, Sean. I think the storyline here is something really to behold. There's a lot in here that feels like it's ripe for my perspective of just like, oh, if you squint your eyes just right, you'll probably see something that you like. But I don't mean that in a negative way. I think, oh man, and I can't wait to keep going into the spoiler zone so we can really dive deep into this. But I think one of the things that stood out to me, and this is honestly a huge surprise, I actually felt really invested in these characters. And even the supporting ones were great. And even these characters who have maybe seconds of screen time or just a few words, I really wanted to know more about them, despite me not being at all interested in the actual mechanics of the plot and the overall story. Like this was a very much like a people-centric movie for me, whereas the plot itself felt more like a very I wouldn't say shoddy, but like a very thinly built framework to rest upon. And I'm also surprised that this didn't suffer from what I think the conjuring suffered from for me, which was a hot like hokey reveals and moments of seeing an entity that disrupt the suspension of disbelief. And I think it's because it doesn't make that same mistake, at least from my perspective. I think that's why I was able to have a sense of like dread and tension, right? The conjuring makes you afraid of the things that you don't see. But what I really like is that this movie made me a little bit tense based on what I could just barely make out in the shadows. And I do think that this level of tension I had, I'm just gonna say this. I I think that tension was preserved by not watching trailers for the nun too. I'm very lucky that I hadn't seen that. Because if I hit if I did, I would have cared way fucking less about the third act of the movie.

SPEAKER_00 16:18

Yeah, well, I saw the trailers for the nun too, and I I don't know necessarily if I would have felt differently either which way. But I struggle with this because I think that James Wan obviously is known for his jump scares and and like I said at the beginning, I was expecting them. And with Valik looking the way that she does, I mean terrifying, right? But I don't know. Me personally, I was not as scared by this movie as I thought I was going to be. And quite honestly, to put it bluntly, like being the little bitch that I am, especially with it being in the dark, I was like, oh, this is gonna mess me up. There's a there's this a couple iconic moments that I remember way back when when the trailer came out for this movie, that I that I kind of anticipated and still kind of got me nonetheless, but I wasn't really scared. Like, you know, we we talked about how I was so terrified of watching this movie at night, like I was like dreading it, I was putting it off, putting it off. And then I finally did, and I was like, oh, this wasn't so bad. Like I worked myself up for nothing. That being said, if you are easily susceptible to jump scares, you will get got that's for sure. Even my brother said that this kind of like got him plenty of times. But can I just say there's this one moment involving a radio that I was instantly in fright or flight mode thinking I was watching Insidious because I was like James Warren, don't don't you dare, don't you do it to me. This is not this is not this moment. Could you fucking imagine? I I don't look, I was gonna be so upset. I it wouldn't have been him. I doubt, obviously, they weren't gonna be playing his song or him, but if they had done something similar, I would have thrown James Wan. Sorry, never watching any of your movies again. I can't take the risk. I can't. I just can't.

SPEAKER_04 18:10

Yeah, I I think that this one I think that this one will frighten some people out there. I I don't think personally the film is super frightening. What I think took away from the fright factor of this film was really just the way they used Valak, right? Like I feel like I am on here all the time talking about less is more, and at this point I'm probably making our listeners' ears bleed, but come on, like they they were so in your face with this demon that it took away from how scary it could have been if they leveraged the beautiful like darkness in this movie and the lighting or lack thereof. It just felt like a missed opportunity to evoke some of those same feelings that you got from like the conjuring uh or the conjuring two, rather, paranormal activity, even like films like that.

SPEAKER_02 18:56

Man, it's so weird how we can feel the same about a lot of things and then feel so starkly fucking different because even with the amount of exposure we get, I feel like the amount that we see this entity and the quality of the entity, I do not have a negative feeling about it whatsoever.

SPEAKER_04 19:14

See, there's there's some really good shots. Like there's some, and we're gonna we may we may touch on these in the second half when we start breaking some things apart, and there's some really great ways that they did utilize the visuals of the nun and things like that, but then there were others that were just kind of like almost so in your face, like it felt like I was watching an Evil Dead movie, right? Like, so it it's it's it was kind of hit or miss for me, and I think because of those moments, it almost took away from just the overall fright factor of the film. But don't get me wrong, the movie is creepy as fuck. Like it there are jump scares, but if you watch a lot of horror movies, right, you're gonna be a step ahead of most of these moments. Like you're never gonna be caught off guard.

SPEAKER_02 19:57

Let me just say that I, when I watched The Conjuring 3 after watching this, and again, again, I know I'm crazy for making all these mistakes in this watch order. When I watched it, I legitimately said, Oh, this motherfucker's a deade. That is the greater conjuring universe.

SPEAKER_03 20:13

Nice.

SPEAKER_02 20:14

Let me tell you though, I really give this movie credit for being a, in my opinion, a well-crafted tale of pure fiction set in a world or a cinematic universe that relies heavily on like the based on true events angle.

SPEAKER_00 20:27

You mean in general, like the universe itself or just the movie?

SPEAKER_02 20:30

Yeah. Which is like with the with the universe itself basing a lot of this on like Ed and Lorraine Warren, right? And thinking about the case files or the experiences, to have completely made all this shit up and really just tuck it in neatly in that order. I'm a fan. Which I agree.

SPEAKER_00 20:46

Like, that's kind of what I've said in the past about James Warren and this whole universe. Like it's like well, I'm gonna say something very bold. Let me let me just go for it. You know what? Fuck it. Uh look, it's not like the MCU, but you can see some type of parallel because there's different branches, and you have to see how all of them kind of connect and the timing of everything, and like the order that certain things are, and one character from one movie to another. Like, I think that that's really cool. And on top of that, I think Catholicism and demonic energy and possession and all of these things is not new whatsoever. But I think it's kind of cool to bring that into something that is known in pop culture or at least in paranormal pop culture with through the Warrens, right? And how this entity is connected to them. Even though Valica is not necessarily true in and of itself, but like connecting this character or this demonic villain to actual real life people is is it's cool. I don't know. I I give it props for that. I don't think that the premise itself is Original by any means, but like you said, it's the universe, right? And how this kicks it off that I think is really cool.

SPEAKER_04 22:06

Yeah, I think that's just it. I think what they what they do with the setup and how they you know tell you this story and are introducing right a different maybe a different view of what we've seen before. Like we've seen, you know, plays on Catholicism and religion and God versus the devil and you know demons and being possessed and and all of those things, right? But uh, but you know, just getting to I think we were someone mentioned it earlier, right, about just it's a nun, right? And how often do you see like an evil nun, right? And I think that makes it kind of fresh, it makes it kind of original. So I think it gets points for that, and just bringing a different just a different view into maybe a formula we have seen before. And you know, at this day and age, like what else can you really ask for? Because it's hard to innovate completely new formulas anymore.

SPEAKER_02 22:59

That's true. You know what else gets points for me though? It's gonna be the ending. Because I really I know Banks looks so upset with me already. I really love this ending. Genuinely. It gave me like the ending ending or the ending. Like the end end. Like it gave me a sense of satisfaction I have found in a few specific movies and TV shows. And really, this is gonna be a big statement. It made me smile, and that's really fucking weird. But I cannot wait to unpack more in the second half because the last time I have smiled has been watching Scream or watching the Halloween franchise, but like to actually smile, not to just have a good time, because I've definitely had a good time where I've laughed or like you know, enjoyed the experience, but like I was actually smiling from ear to ear.

SPEAKER_01 23:48

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 23:49

Interesting. I mean, I I guess I I liked the ending because we're gonna get into it in the second half, but like some of my favorite visuals are like I wouldn't maybe scene-ish is from the ending for sure. I just thought it was a little cheesy for sure. Definitely unrealistic, but at this point it's hello, the movie is unrealistic, so I guess there's that. I don't know, it was just a little bit too much on the realm of fantasy, which I realize how ridiculous I sound. But that being said, I made a comment about the beginning of this movie. The end end, the very end of this movie felt like all wrongs were made right again. Like the world was aligned, the conjuring universe was set in place, and although a little cliche, I thought, okay, I can now we can go on about this conjuring universe train in peace and in the way it should go. So I guess there's that.

SPEAKER_04 24:45

Yeah, I mean, uh in essence, I kind of feel the same way, I suppose. Like I'm not mad at the ending by any means. I don't think that the ending was spectacular by any means. I and you know, there's like a little twist or something like that that I thought was kind of cool, you know. Um, but I I liked, and I think that's what we're at least I that's what I think you're talking about, Binks. I I don't know exactly what you're talking about, Chris, and what made you smile, but I do like how they, you know, like like the tie back and everything at the you know at the end. So I'm sure we will talk about that further. So yeah, good and black good and bad parts, but overall, I think, you know, in essence, when you look at the whole thing, it doesn't ruin it for me, but it wasn't spectacular.

SPEAKER_02 25:28

Well, this is giving mixed bags so far. So let's see how these scores actually shake out now before we commit to our ratings. Sean, how would you describe the gore score?

SPEAKER_04 25:37

You know, I think this movie is it's beautifully grotesque, right? If that's a thing, I don't know. It it definitely has some gore to it, but it's not over the top gore. So I would say for overall like gore in the film, it's feeling like a solid medium gore score.

SPEAKER_02 25:54

And what about the animal report? Surprisingly, we are all safe when it comes to the animals. Well, let's go ahead and get into our ratings then. The nun from 2018. Was it a hack or a slash?

SPEAKER_04 26:04

Alright, so you know, the problem with this film is the story they came up with for this valuac. It was a bit of a stretch for me. And also how they utilize the antagonist, there was an abundance of it, right? I already talked about it, you know, in you know, Valak in Nun form in your face. And I I really don't know how I feel about that, but there is something to say about the cinematography with the film, the set design, and to me, the near-perfect lighting, visually, it's all there, right? Like this movie, uh, when you just look at how the lighting is, it could very well be a very hard-to-see dark movie, but it wasn't. It was dark, but you didn't feel like you couldn't see what was happening in the film. And there is something to be said about this time period and the age-old tale of God versus the devil that is just captivating. And I found myself really immersed in the atmosphere in this movie, and I think that's the theme for me for this for this episode is just atmosphere. And I suddenly didn't care about the stretch of a backstory as much. And even though the uh choice to overuse you know some of the scarier visuals in this film resulted in in a less effective, you know, jump scare or jump scare tactics. I I found myself really enjoying this one. So I'm really feeling like this one it needs to be a slash. So I'm gonna give it a slash.

SPEAKER_00 27:26

Okay, all right. Well, I agree with everything in terms of the atmosphere. It's definitely there. Visually, well, mostly visually, this movie's definitely doing it for me. Um, I said at the beginning that I was warned about this movie, and I really wanted to disregard it because Valak is one of my favorite horror villains, and obviously The Conjuring is one of my favorites. But I have to say, I was honestly and generally not really impressed by this movie. Like I I wasn't as captured as I thought I was gonna be. And I feel like I we got enough Valik, but we didn't. And maybe it just it wasn't hitting the expectations. This is like one of those origin movies that's made, but it just doesn't meet the expectations for the weight of the character. And the best thing I can compare it to, funny that I made my MCU joke earlier, but like you know, X-Men and like when they did X-Men Origins or like Wolverine Origins, like that just didn't really hit for a lot of people. That's kind of how I feel right now. Like Wolverine is fantastic, Valic is fantastic, and yet those origin movies just didn't hit. Maybe that's a maybe that's a bold statement. Maybe I just created some enemies, I don't know, but I said it, okay, and that's where I'm at. So I just feel like although this whole movie wasn't completely bad, it just wasn't enough to confidently be a slash for me. And I can't believe that we're here with my favorite character, and I love you, Valik, I do, but your movie, it's a hack. It's a hack.

SPEAKER_02 28:56

Well, not the paranormal paramour have paranormal standards that I just completely don't care for? I don't know. Listen, I thought I was gonna be difficult to please because you get me into a supernatural movie, and it's already like, eh. We are pairing a lot of our spooky season movies with some rewinds for our patrons, and you may hear of the conjuring again. Like we're getting a little bit further into this franchise, and it's no secret that it's not the easiest type of movie for me to attach myself to. So I went into this with some very specific expectations, but also generally low expectations. I think, Binks, what is very interesting about what you shared is it sounds like everybody expected you to love this and you were warned about it, and then it received a lot of hype. Like your your awareness of this movie was very heightened, and that's generally how I feel about most things when it gets like hyped to the point of ruining it, and I can't give it a fair shake. But I think for me, even if this movie had all this hype, it's a supernatural religious movie, so I was never gonna really give a fuck, right? So I think that created a perfect storm for me to be pleasantly surprised because what really sells this movie for me are the performances that we get from its characters and the atmosphere. The cinematography is fucking great, all right? The lurking in the shadows, the things that are just out of focus and you can't quite make out. I absolutely love. Plus Romania, them filming in Romania, them filming in Transylvania, it's giving classic monster movie. This is an aesthetic that I can really sink my teeth into, and honestly, it makes me more invested in the franchise. So for that as a slash. Yeah, Sphinx. God, I wish I wish everybody could see your face right now. And with that, the nun from 2018 has earned two slashes and one hack. And that hack may be surprising. Now you can find this movie streaming online. Check the link in our show notes to where you can find it right now. Then join us in the second half so we can unpack this one together. We'll see you in a bit.

SPEAKER_00 31:22

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SPEAKER_04 33:03

Yeah, we have 22 kills in this one, if you really think about it, which is actually a lot more than I thought while watching.

SPEAKER_00 33:10

It's wild. It's really more than meets the eye.

SPEAKER_04 33:13

It definitely is.

SPEAKER_00 33:14

I wasn't prepared for for that number because I was I remember I had asked you at the beginning, I was like, people die? And it's like, yeah, they died, Banks, you stupid idiot, but that many people? I wasn't ready for that.

SPEAKER_03 33:26

I I know.

SPEAKER_04 33:26

It's wild.

SPEAKER_00 33:27

They got riggedy-wrecked.

SPEAKER_04 33:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:29

Yeah, big time.

SPEAKER_04 33:30

But you know, between what we get in the main storyline as well as like the many flashbacks, flashbacks including Knight's Templar, right? Some of these, and and some of these kills really gave me Evil Dead vibes, which we're gonna talk about, and then we get the like, you know, we get the initial kills, and then some of the characters come back in zombified demonic form. I mean, really heavy Evil Dead vibes for sure, but you know, when we talk about all these different kills, you know, from back in the day and the flashbacks to what we see in the main you know time frame in this story, what were your favorite kills?

SPEAKER_02 34:03

Okay, so my favorite kill is actually the reveal that someone's been dead the whole time. And that was Sister Iwana. It's okay. We talked about a moment, and and and Binks, I know you equated this moment to something else. You're talking about like the Imperial March. It was it the moment that all the nuns come into the room. Yeah. So for me, here's what it reminded me of not because I've actually seen this fucking movie, but because I watched this one clip on repeat, because I love Bree Larson. The moment in Endgame when all the female superheroes come together, that's what it fucking felt like. It felt like they were just coming in there to get business done. Absolutely loved that in a like charming way. But to see all these women try to pray together, and we just have Sister Irene in the middle, hasn't even taken her vows yet. She obviously stands out just dressed and and adorned in all white. But when we get into this moment where we see that Sister Abigail is actually doing the prayers, and it seems like she has taken over, and we see this sheet on the floor, and we see that Sister Owana is underneath it. Fucking gutting. Because A, you just thought she had saved her moments ago.

SPEAKER_01 35:11

Right.

SPEAKER_02 35:11

You really thought that. But then you just see this hole in her hand, you see the absence of life in her eyes, and it just feels like ooh.

SPEAKER_00 35:19

Yeah, the visually that was definitely I want to say beautiful. It's like rough, but like I I think it was like cosmetically the makeup, the costume, everything was just really good. But another moment similarly that you just reminded me of was Sister Victoria. She's the one that that hung herself.

SPEAKER_01 35:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:37

I think we get a snapshot of that moment of like what she looks like with a crow on her shoulder like that. Like, ooh, how daunting, and like it's just so messed up.

SPEAKER_01 35:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:46

And so sad too. It's just really rough. And I think it's revisited very quickly again, or at the beginning in the movie, too. But not necessarily dramatic death or anything like because it's not necessarily by the hands of Valak, but it's still really sad.

SPEAKER_03 36:00

It's intense still for sure, because she's sacrificing herself to not get possessed.

SPEAKER_00 36:06

Right, right. But like basically, like trying, she's doing like killing herself before Valak gets her, which is rough because that's ultimately what happens to quite literally a good chunk of the people that died in this movie. Like so many are dead and then revived and then dead. It's like a zombie movie, honestly, is what we got going on here. I mean Or Evil Dead, actually. You said it. Yeah, Evil Dead.

SPEAKER_04 36:27

That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_00 36:28

That's a good point.

SPEAKER_04 36:28

But that's what I'm saying. Those Evil Dead vibes where they're coming back, revived as some kind of demonic, zombified version of what they were before. Like, I think you know, you like Sister Victoria's, you know, death because of how you know it's intense and the visual you get of it is is pretty wild, but even her death after she comes back with like Frenchie coming in clutch with the decapitation, giving ash vibes for sure from Evil Dead. Even even the moment when she like drops down from the tree and just attacks, you know what I mean? Like those are the moments that really gave me those feelings. But yeah, both both of those like zombified return or revived characters between Sister Victoria and Sister Oana. I think you know, both of them, both of those kills were were pretty pretty epic, right? Owana gets set on fire and then sh got gets shot with a shotgun. Like, those are great. Those were great.

SPEAKER_00 37:23

That's another Evil Dead moment. It is set it, yeah. It is. Wow, this movie's very, very evil dead. Now that we're like really talking about it, the dead rising is a very spiritual thing. Yeah, I guess. I mean, and funny that we're watching it like this year with how we've literally just watched all of the Evil Dead movies and done episodes of all the Evil Dead movies. So works up. Well timed. Another kill that I want to bring up is like the utter, like I why did I want to compare this to malignant? But like Valak just like kicking ass and like just annihilating in the churches, annihilat all those nuns, like throwing it, tossing and turning them like it was nobody's business. Like ragdolls, like little annabels, yes.

SPEAKER_02 38:06

Yep, flung them around. It was kind of cool. It's kind of here for it.

SPEAKER_04 38:10

It was.

SPEAKER_02 38:11

I was a fan, I was absolutely a fan of it.

SPEAKER_04 38:13

The only other thing I was gonna say is even in the beginning when Sister Jessica gets dragged or gets goes into that room, right? And gets dragged back in there and attacked, killed, whatever. It just one, you can only imagine that it was probably a brutal death, but also, unless I'm missing something, and correct me if I'm wrong, that wasn't even the room she needed to go into to get the relic.

SPEAKER_02 38:36

Just way further down. You know what I mean? Like that spooky bitch was just out and about.

SPEAKER_03 38:41

Terrible, terrible.

SPEAKER_02 38:42

Big yikes, honestly. I want to go back though, because we're talking about Sister Jessica, we're thinking about Sister Victoria, she's about to make the ultimate sacrifice as opposed to committing the ultimate sin. There is something that really stood out to me as like one of these things is not like the other. And that was the gore in this movie for me. Not even for everything else that we get, but specifically grayed out Sister Victoria hanging from the Abbey. When we actually see what she looks like, when Frenchie discovers her body and she just looks almost like a cement block, honestly. It just looked really fucking weird. And it was the one moment in this movie where I was like, oh, okay. Really? Which it doesn't make sense because I know, like, it's very theatric, right? Yeah. What a chilling sight. A nun hanging from an abbey, all these fucking crows. I really loved the crows all you know fly flying towards the camera and turning into the title card. That was all very dramatic and very cool. A murder of crows. It was fantastic. But the color of the skin, it was very gray, but like not in a decomposing body kind of gray. It looked like someone selected her in Photoshop and did a quick fill of a fucked up texture. That's what it looked like to me.

SPEAKER_04 39:57

So it just looked off for you. It didn't look too too real.

SPEAKER_02 40:01

Yeah. It like it's it it really broke the suspension of disbelief.

SPEAKER_00 40:05

Two th two things that I find funny. That you saw it that way when it was one of my favorite kills because of how visually it looked. But but that's neither we're just not we're not agreeing today, but that's fine.

SPEAKER_02 40:17

We're on opposite sides of the table. It's okay. I'll still love you.

unknown 40:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 40:21

But but honestly, to my second point, the irony, because all of them looked like they were color-graded gray when they died. All of them. Every single one of them.

SPEAKER_02 40:31

Yes, but she was like a but she looked like she was filled with cement. Yeah. There is something about how dark the gray is and how porous it is. It looks fucking weird to me.

SPEAKER_00 40:42

But even but even Daniel looked that grey. Like all it's like if zombie versions of all of these people are just like grey cement.

SPEAKER_02 40:50

You know, maybe it had just been the little bit of exposure I need to not give a fuck about the others. But again, none of those moments hit me. You know what I mean? Like none of it stood out to me with as much like disdain as that one moment. Also, because that should have been a really fucking haunting great moment. You know what I mean? Sure.

SPEAKER_00 41:08

Well, you say disdain for me, and I mentioned it earlier, which is like the CGI in general, or just like some of the makeup for a lot of the people, like the the zombies and or whatever. It's just, I don't know, it just seemed too much zombie and not demon, with the exception of Valik. I think Valick was killing it once and once again. And if I had to pick a favorite visual, because I mean I guess my favorite kill was also a visual, whatever. I'm always cheating with these things, guys, but we love me anyways. My favorite visual, I would have to say Valak emerging from the water and the glow around her, and like just like the the mist of the water, that side profile, that's the best part of the whole movie. A hundred percent. Bonnie went in and she said, I am the nun. You best remember my name. And she came from like in her tall glory. I would have to know if that actress, like, I'm sure that she like wears stilts or something of that nature to be extra tall and like creepy looking, but she portrays the nun so frickin' well that she doesn't even need to do anything with her face, and just emerging from the water is haunting.

SPEAKER_02 42:21

You know?

SPEAKER_00 42:22

Scarred me forever.

SPEAKER_02 42:23

I long to be someone who has to do nothing with my face to terrify people just by rising.

SPEAKER_00 42:29

That was a very Capricorn thing for you to say. Yeah. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 42:33

I mean, I joke because I'm already kind of there. Everybody assumes I'm just like uptight. Anywho.

SPEAKER_03 42:39

Oh Lord.

SPEAKER_02 42:41

Okay, so it's really interesting. We really are two sides of the same coin tonight, Binx, because my favorite visual element of this whole movie is when we see her less. And that is this movie's use of depth of field. Right. The nun, for the most part, up until you get to like a certain jump scare in the Abbey, the nun is mostly seen in shadow, slightly obscured from perfect view. And again, you know, I mentioned this in the first half. What made the conjuring fun was what you couldn't see at all. But in this one, it was just it's for me, it's just what you can barely see in the shadows.

SPEAKER_04 43:15

Yeah, so I I think that's where we're on the same page because it's not that I don't like you know the scenes that you're talking about, Binks, where we see maybe Valak coming out of the water or we see some straight-on visuals. I just think it takes away from the from the the creepiness and the and the scariness of the film. And so, like I also really enjoy the scenes where we get just enough of the visual of Valak in the in the darkness, but also even the shot of you know Valak in Nun form, the nun in the painting, and the lights go off and the eyes are almost glowing, peering through the darkness. That right there is terrifying to me. That's the image that stays in my mind when I think of of you know valu and all that stuff. So I think you know, just playing. Off of the darkness and the lighting that they had in the movie, to your point, Chris, if they just utilized that aspect more, gave you less of the full frontal visuals and just more of the tension and the creepiness and things like that, it may it probably would have been more effective. But I those are my favorite shots of the whole film was just like the subtle plays on the darkness.

SPEAKER_00 44:21

Which I look, I completely agree though, because I think what makes what has always stood out to me about Balik is all of that that you guys have said. My problem is that with this movie, if we got less of her kind of in that same way, which I in I guess in some cases we did, at least in my opinion, we kind of did, but we just got so much more of all these other people that I could give zero fucks about, truthfully. Like all of these zombie kids and the Daniel and the nuns and the things, like it it was so much about them and very little valu that when we did get Valak, it was frontal, like we we just like really saw her then. So it's it's hard because I wanted to see more Valik, but I guess to your point, like I didn't want to see her necessarily like that. But then how do you I I know that you can do a movie about the nun and still keep to that creepiness and those small bits of moments. I mean, they're literally in a super old frickin' abbey and church, all of these like hallways and and all this darkness, like they it was right there. Super, so much potential to keep that eeriness about her without having to add in all of these like creepy possessed things that just kind of took away from her.

SPEAKER_02 45:39

I think they're going to atone for their sins in the sequel.

SPEAKER_00 45:44

I hope so. I mean, it kind of seemed that way.

SPEAKER_04 45:46

Even the visual, and maybe this is kind of to me like the happy medium between both sides of this, right? Like, is that is that shot or that visual we see of Valix standing in the doorway of I forget which room it is, turning slowly, the lights hitting its face like perfectly, and it's it's just a terrifying shot, right? And I think it's the moment where sister Irene says, Oh god, but we all know she meant, oh fuck.

SPEAKER_02 46:16

Hell yeah, she did. Oh gosh. Man, okay. So thinking about scenes, I actually have a couple favorites. One I'll hold for a little bit later. I want to hear what you what you all think. I think one of the most effective scenes is actually the real opening of this movie. Not the previously on the conjuring, right? Not that part, but the sister Victoria, sister Jessica, and just seeing this torment between them, seeing the fear in in her eyes, thinking that she's not strong enough to do what has to be done, and seeing this unspoken element between them. And then you don't realize, you don't realize that she is managing to work up the core courage to do what she has to do. Because I mean, so often, right? Like, could her action have been mistaken as a I don't have the strength to do what I have to do, so I'm gonna just eject out of this situation? But then to have that moment of realization, man, what a task that she had to take upon herself and go against everything that she had, especially knowing what you hear about her later, which is that she was the most devout. She was the the the most just knowing that she was the most devout, that's a lot of of effort and struggle for that character.

SPEAKER_04 47:32

Yeah, that's that's true. And that oh man, that door says God ends here. That's intense. You want to walk through this door, that's on you.

SPEAKER_00 47:42

That was oh my gosh, that was really, really good. That was really good. Because I mean, it sets the tone right there of like God ends here, like anything beyond that is just you're fucked. Yeah, yeah, you're fucked, bro.

SPEAKER_02 47:56

Like, don't even what is the parallel of that? Evil dies tonight, it doesn't fucking hit the same.

SPEAKER_00 48:02

Yeah, no, I love that. This is true.

SPEAKER_02 48:04

Love lives today, evil dies tonight, and God ends here.

SPEAKER_04 48:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:09

Mic drop. Get this shit on some shirts.

SPEAKER_04 48:12

I'll tell I'll tell you one scene that I really loved in this in this movie. It's the scene where Frenchie is leaving, right? And he's trying to get back to his horse and carriage or whatever, whatever the hell, and he's going through the woods, it's night, he's trying to get back, and then he sees like the ghostly nun standing in the distance just staring at him. That is terrifying. That's fucked up. I don't know where I'm going, left, right, north, south, but I am trying, I'm not trying to go anywhere near that. But of course, it's a horror movie, so he goes straight to where that was, and it's just everything about the scene is spooky, right? It's the woods at night, it's the fog, right? It's the the lantern barely giving, you know, any light or not enough light, right? And then the undead Sister Victoria dropping down on him. Like, granted, once we get the full visual of that, it becomes very comical, very campy, very evil dead-like, but it was it was just everything before that was so good, and then ultimately leading to that near-perfect shot of like undead Sister Victoria standing in that dense fog at the foot of those crosses, like looking at Frenchie at the very end of all that, and he grabs the cross out of the ground, like brings it with them to the tavern. I mean, that that was great. There was just enough camp, but just enough spooky whatever was going on that I just really enjoyed that whole progression of what happened there.

SPEAKER_00 49:36

I love that you you even started to laugh because you know that when he grabbed that cross, he said, I'm gonna need this.

SPEAKER_02 49:42

I was like, What are we watching, dude? It was a comically large cross. It was like he was just grabbed the most convenient one, he grabbed the most effective one, and one that he could use as both a shield and a sword if necessary. Hell, all of them. Those crosses were massive, they were huge.

SPEAKER_00 49:59

It was it was very camp. We can all agree on that. I absolutely and I have to say the atmosphere of the cemetery, we've talked so much about atmosphere in this movie. My favorite scene is, I'm sure Chris, this is one of your favorite scenes, and you didn't say it first, and I'm glad because typically we if we agree on one thing, it's usually the same freaking favorite scene. Is it the one with the sheets? Yes. Do you have the of course? Yeah, so here we go. So the scene with the sheets. Um typical, you know, we see it in most horror movies, not all of them, definitely not all of them, obviously, but like, you know, enough where we know that it's a trope. So if you see sheets, something's gonna pop out behind those sheets, something's gonna happen. So I was already on high alert. I loved the distance between Daniel and the and the father or whatever, because it's like just enough where he's chasing him and whatnot. But there was this very fast moment, a quick snapshot of Daniel peeking behind the tomb so quick, that shit was was it. That was it. Because if I was first of all, I would never chase anything, let's put it that way. Especially in this kind of if I was in that scenario, I just wouldn't be there to begin with. But if if I saw that a kid that I know very well died is running around, it's giving insidious, and I know better. But he's chasing him because that's this is a horror movie.

SPEAKER_01 51:22

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 51:22

But imagine like nothing disappears and you quickly take a look at something and it's just peeking out. I'm like, oh no, yeah, I gotta run. Yeah, I will say, all that being said, loved that entire segment, thought it was so good, and then I know this is my favorite scene, but then it got spoiled because then he falls into a frickin' tomb with his name already on it, and I'm like, what is happening here?

SPEAKER_03 51:46

Here lies Father Burke.

SPEAKER_00 51:48

Yeah, I was like, oh, come on. Like, really, it was a little cheesy. It ruined the moment for me a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 51:55

Well, can we elaborate a little bit more?

SPEAKER_00 51:57

What do you mean?

SPEAKER_02 51:58

Did that buried alive moment not remind you of the film starring Ryan Reynolds where he's buried alive?

SPEAKER_00 52:04

Oh. You mean buried? Buried, yeah. I also have that on DVD. Jesus. I my have my DVD collection is so ridiculous.

SPEAKER_02 52:12

For some reason, I have that movie and Devil on Like the elevator one? The elevator one on Blu-ray. It was like one of the first Blu-rays I ever bought. It was weird. Anyway, okay, so yes, that it reminded me of that movie, and that's all I could think about. And I mean, this is the moment, and thinking about like the sounds of this scene where washing it with headphones, it gave me new appreciation for the movie. Because why? Wait, now I'm gonna ask you to elaborate. Because of the sound design. Well, so when he's in, when he's buried. Yeah. Right? So he's buried and he's pulling on the grave bell.

SPEAKER_01 52:46

Right.

SPEAKER_02 52:47

Right? And we have Sister Irene who's out there just like looking for him, can hear something's going on. There is a moment where, and this is after I have my headphones on, you can hear the scratching in the grave.

SPEAKER_04 52:57

Oh, gotcha, gotcha.

SPEAKER_02 52:58

You can hear like the subtle sounds, and that's when he starts kind of looking around, like, what the fuck is happening. That is what really like I didn't really feel anything about him just being buried, period. But having those sounds, it almost like in my mind created the sense of claustrophobia.

SPEAKER_00 53:16

Which I guess is fine. Like, I would have loved for him to have fallen to the tomb without the freaking headstone already saying his name. Like, I that's where it was camp. That's where it was like this is a little silly type of thing. And then more so that my girl Irene, I I'm just trying to understand. Like, when you put the shovel in and it went through the box, you didn't already see that you were on top of the box, like you didn't already hear this man clearly. Like you just went, like, why? Why?

SPEAKER_02 53:43

My question is, uh because I feel like she dig she dug enough dirt off of it. Why put the shovel through the part where the head usually goes?

SPEAKER_01 53:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:52

It's a it's a wider section.

SPEAKER_00 53:54

But that that's what I'm saying. At that point, you would have not only realized, okay, I'm probably at the top like I'm where the head should be, A, but B, enough where if for that shovel to have gone and almost hit him in the head, that means that there was enough soil for for her to have clearly seen that she was on top of it already. So what are you doing, ma'am? I don't know. I guess you know, at a time like this, I have to think like things are going crazy. It's in the middle of the night. Panic can make you do a lot of things.

SPEAKER_04 54:22

That's true. It's something that I would do. I would accidentally just, well, whoops, stabbed you. Sorry. I guess now you're dead. My bad.

SPEAKER_00 54:29

You know what? Maybe that's where I just have to have a little bit of empathy and just like understanding because I just like my technical brain is like at this point, like even out your shoveling here. If you're really gonna help this man, like if the head is completely fine, you're still not gonna get him out. So, but I digress. True. I'm asking a lot for him, sister Irene, and she's already been through plenty. So well, hashi, not really, but like I don't know, she's come through things, I guess.

SPEAKER_04 54:56

Some some stuff.

SPEAKER_02 54:57

You know, what she lacks in upper body strength and sensibility of digging, she makes up for with knowledge on dinosaurs.

SPEAKER_04 55:04

So honestly, yes, well balanced. That's true. But even before this scene we're talking about, right? Like when so we get, you know, we get Father Burke being woken up and you know, he's chasing after Daniel leads to this whole thing. Then we get Sister Irene waking up and she starts wandering about. That was such a good part, right? Before she starts chasing after Father Burke when she's leaving the room and you see Valak in the darkness stalking her, and then she goes into the church or whatever. That was such I loved that moment, right? Like where you see the shadow, like the overbearing shadow walking around or floating or gliding around the room on the walls, all the way back down behind her. I didn't really care for the jump scare as much. I think it was okay, but it was very predictable that it was gonna happen. But I just visually loved the progression of being kind of stalked through the through the abbey into the church and then getting that like just overwhelming, terrifying shadow just coming around at you. So so good. So good.

SPEAKER_00 56:05

Yeah, nothing like a little shadow to just you know get you a little nervous. I mean, who wouldn't, right? Because it's just like again, what's not seen versus seen, I guess, in some ways. But yeah, I wouldn't want a shadow fucking chasing me, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_02 56:22

Man, I'm thinking about those shadows, and there's another moment, and this is where I think I really start to think about the the characters in this movie and how some of the supporting actresses in this movie, as the nuns, delivered a lot more for me in terms of like being able to be invested in some level of suspense. Being you're you look like so incredulous.

SPEAKER_04 56:44

She's ready. Yeah, she's ready to pounce, I think.

SPEAKER_00 56:47

I'm I'm ready because I have a question for you. You're gonna you're going to tell me that Sister Owana is a good actress, then? Is that who you're thinking of?

SPEAKER_02 56:56

That's not who I'm thinking of, actually.

SPEAKER_00 56:59

Oh, okay. I just wanted to clear that. That's my number one comment.

SPEAKER_02 57:03

I I think she's serviceable. Like she did enough to not distract me.

SPEAKER_00 57:08

Literally. I'm gonna give you a direct quote from what I a live reaction to what I said. And and so much so that if someone wants to go on my threads right now, they can literally go and see, scroll all the way back to when I was watching this movie live and I made this exact comment. I said, Sister Owana, girl, you are not a good actress whatsoever, and that's saying a lot here.

SPEAKER_02 57:30

Listen, you know what this is sounding like to me, Sean? What is a scream five again?

SPEAKER_00 57:34

Yeah, this is sound like Sam Carpenter hate. Yeah, no, not that level, guys. Come on, guys, yo, she it was bad.

SPEAKER_02 57:43

It was bad. It was she was bad. She was not bad. She was not bad. She may not have been like a starling actress. No, she was bad, but that was not bad.

SPEAKER_00 57:51

Can I can I take us back to her? Actually, the scene. I I I well, I guess I don't have to do my worst part, so I'm just gonna kind of do it right now, if that's okay. There's a there's a scene where they're telling the history of the Abbey and like this the the I don't even know what the crater in the middle of the Abbey where the evil is, whatever. She's the one that's telling that story, right? Mm-hmm. Horrific. Terrible. Why? That was that whole scene was so like fake and very, well, obviously, but like so staged and forced. Her delivery was awkward, so much so that you could tell that the actress that plays um Sister Irene couldn't really play off of the way that she was saying things because then her acting was so terrible. It was just that whole moment was like, someone's gotta redo this dialogue, someone's gotta redo this scene because we're talking about the origin. Like now we're really supposed to be getting to the meat and potatoes of Valik and why this is all happening. And I feel like I'm watching a really terrible YouTube summary video, is kind of how I felt.

SPEAKER_02 58:54

Yeah, no, I just didn't feel that. I mean, I wish I could go back and imagine what it is that she said. And I this is why I really want to get back into doing some watch-along episodes for the patrons. Yeah. Because these are the moments where we probably go head to head during the actual watch of the movie, because I just did not feel anything negative coming from Sister Rwanda. Like I wasn't bothered by her performance at all. In fact, the moment that I'm thinking of, and you know, I feel like you probably got a lot more to say on the subject, Binks. The moment that I'm thinking of is when Sister Rwana is sharing that history, right? And they're sitting across from each other, and Sister Abigail comes in and she's trying to basically break them up, and she's telling her to leave that night. And Sister Wana says she that Sister Irene can't leave because the gates have closed, and Sister Abigail is turning slowly. And she has a single tear falling down because she knows that again, right? They've all been dead by at this point. She knows that Sister Irene is a live vessel. You know what I mean? Like she does, she hasn't even taken her vows yet. She's so young, she's so innocent. She's not equipped to be the person who can face this terror that's before them. Yeah, I just fucking loved it. Like that one turn, that one tear, the stoicism from her, that one it made me feel so much.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:15

That one hit me too, that moment. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:17

I'm heartless.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:18

Maybe I'm Vhalik.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:20

Maybe I'm Vhalik. And you know what? It is what it is at the same time.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:25

It's okay. We still accept you. You can be a demonic nun. Yeah. Don't worry.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:30

Yeah. You know what? If we don't love you at your demonic nun, we don't love you at your same beanks. So here we are. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:37

You're absolutely right.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:38

So well, it sounds like Binks, for the most part, you weren't super thrilled about the characters overall in this film. And Chris.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:48

What a what a fucking understatement of the year, bro. And and Chris.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:54

It sounds like you were invested in the characters. And so for me, I I feel like I'm somewhere in the middle because not the Goldilocks.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:02

Not the blonde-haired Goldilocks.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:06

Well, I feel like I feel like one, there was a lot to accomplish in this film, or at least that's what they set themselves up for, right? They had to really give us the whole backstory of Valk. And then they had all these characters and tried to give you backstories to some of these characters and and really just kind of blend it all together in a you know feature film length of time. So when it's when it comes to giving you some real backstory for these main characters, some of it felt a little rushed or just thrown at you really quickly. And it's not to say that any of these characters did a terrible job, because I don't think it was all bad acting. I just think that there just wasn't a lot there for me to really feel invested, maybe in the same way that maybe you feel invested, Chris, for the characters. But I also don't think that they did a terrible job. Some I feel like I'm in between.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:54

It's okay, Sean. You can be closer to Chris than than I am. I'm like at the bottom of the pit. I'm like that open like crater in the middle of the of the abbey. Okay, let's get the blood of Christ and seal the shit right up then, huh? Yeah, no, I'm I man, I just didn't I didn't I just didn't. I don't even have anything more to say. I just didn't.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:14

You just just didn't simply did nothing else to say. Could not even did not even as it turns out.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:19

I did not. I did not mic drop. I did not. Look, I'll I'll give you another one. Frenchy, okay? I my opening quote is I'm French Canadian for a reason. Because are you kidding me? Was the biggest comeback of this movie? The the line, I'm French Canadian, like that's how you're gonna clap back to Valik. But I just what am I watching? First of all, why is Valak even talking like that to begin with? That also kind of like threw me off. I was like, why who are you? Like, what's happening? Why are you talking like you're a modern day demon? It was weird, but I do have a positive thing to say. I know I'm talking a lot of shit, but I do have a positive thing to say. You know who my favorite character might be, aside from Valak, is actually the the abbess.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:03

The in her all black.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:05

Her voice was next level phenomenal. So good. She's extremely intimidating, very scary. And I'm gonna be a nerd for a little bit, just for a moment. And I'm gonna say she was giving like Dune's Reverend Mother Mohamed. Like she's kind of like a Benny Jesuit. Like, if you look up, if you know Dune or if you want to look it up, those are the um kind of like, well, funny enough, maybe the equivalent of their nuns in Dune, and looking all black and the way that she talks, very intimidating. That's kind of what it reminded me of. So shout out to her. Nice.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:38

Let me let me ask you this though. Do you think there was a real purpose that we actually had to get any of this Daniel backstory? Like, could it just been mentioned and then we didn't have Daniel floating around for a quarter of the film?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:50

I think so. Because I think what they tried to do with that is I was the typical like add depth to Father Burke. And you know, it's always the story with these frickin' priests characters where they talk about one case that didn't go well in an exorcism or something of that nature, and then that person or you know, whatever is haunting them. It's every single time. Yeah, and it would have been nice to kind of get rid of that because it wasn't necessary, you know what I mean? I d I don't think it was necessary, despite it being one of my favorite scenes.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:23

Right, like it made some good scenes, but like story-wise, did it need to be there? I I don't know if it needed to be there.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:30

I think I simply didn't give a fuck about the men in this movie, and that's where I'm at.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:35

It's all just the nuns for you.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:37

Listen, you had give me a full-on nun movie, and that shit would have been perfection. Honestly, I really liked the movie overall, so don't don't take that as like the father was terrible. Yeah, yeah. Frenchie was, I think, the weakest part of the movie for me. I think aside from that, the worst part would be that like I I just watched this after. I watched this before watching The Conjuring 2, so that whole beginning moment was a weird experience for me. But I think by and large, I could have done without Frenchie and Aldi Brand Antonio Banderas.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:12

Aldi Brand screaming. I mean, I have to agree though, because this is about cloistered nuns, which I famously within my friend group have said that I wanted to be a cloistered nun because it's I think I even said in the podcast not too long ago that I was like, what a time baking cookies, living my best life with my gal pals, you know, like it sounds like a grand old time. So why is this about cloistered nuns and then we've got two men frolicking around the abbey? Like, that's not how that's gonna go. Why couldn't we just have this one girl, Sister Irene, having to go in there infiltrate with maybe other nuns from where she was at? You know what I mean? To d investigate and discover what's going on. Granted, obviously, I'm sure the Vatican would be involved if something like this were to happen, certainly, but I don't know. I just feel like it was I agree it could have been so much cooler and something different if it was just an all-female cast and kind of going that route, taking Valak down for sure.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:09

She really did most of the hard work in the film, you know? I feel like Father Burke just ran around chasing some ghost of some other kid getting kind of uh derailed from what was going on for a while while Sister Irene's out here putting in work inside of the Abbey, you know?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:25

Can we give Sister Irene a shout-out for her final girl prep montage, not being like arming herself, but rather laying on the floor and taking her final vows? It works. Oh yeah. It works like it was a glow up for her. It was a it was a it was a not a coming of age, but like coming into her final form. And obviously this may not be her final form, granted the sequel, but I it was just it was actually surprisingly a moment that I had no issue finding like the seriousness in or the the appreciation for. Also, she's she straight up drank the blood of Christ and held that in her mouth and then spat it back at a demon knot. What a badass.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:04

It was so wild though. It was it's it was so funny. I was like the whole time that was happening, I was like, I wonder how it tasted.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:09

Yeah, probably terrible and rancid, but also and like iron, it tastes like iron. But yeah, I just love that it parallels the way all the locals would spit to ward off evil spirits throughout the movie.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:22

Oh, I didn't even link that. Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:26

Chekhov's spit.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:27

Yep, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:27

Well, look, we're talking about her spitting uh Jesus' blood on Valk, so I'm gonna talk about best part, and it is Valak. I said it earlier, like I just think I'm at a weird place where I I feel like we didn't get enough values, but what we got, yes, was like just full on like her face, but I just can't get an okay, like she's just frightening as hell. Um, she is incredible. Bonnie Aaron's slays it, she's got a jaw structure like none other on this planet. And I feel like if I saw Valik anywhere on the street, at the grocery store, anything, like just in the distance, I would be terrified. And although we got a lot of frontal of like her face and just like her like screaming, and I was not a fan of like her talking like modern day demon, I gotta say I'm so excited for the nun too because even if we get ominous valic, it's going incredible.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:26

Yes, I am also excited for the nun too. I I really think though, if I if I have to pick a worse part, and I think we touched on it just a little bit earlier in the episode. Man, they really went deep for this backstory. Like a duke in the dark ages who was obsessed with black magic and witchcraft opened up a gateway to hell by summoning Valak, only to be stopped by Knights Fucking Templar, who then closed the gateway with the literal blood of Jesus Christ, and then another evil opened the gateway to hell again. This new evil just being the Nazis by accident by bombing the area. That's a fucking stretch, but okay, do your thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:03

Oh my god, the elasticity of that stretch is honestly to be admired. I was just sitting there like, what the f that's like maternity clothes level stretch, you know?

SPEAKER_04 1:09:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:14

You know what though? As much of a stretch as it is, it's still not gonna stop me from watching this again. I probably won't watch it anytime soon. Like, I don't think I need to re-watch before the nun two, but I do think this has earned a quite positive ranking in my ranking of the conjuring franchise.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:32

And me quite the opposite. So much so that I know that the nun two happens. I I want to say it's just about four years after this movie. So I'm hoping that it goes really well because then when I redo like a a binge of the Conjuring universe, I can just start at the Nun Two and then keep going about my weary way. I just I just can't. And it's it's giving too much of a zombie film for me to feel like it's worth my time, unfortunately. So yeah, I I I really have to be in a particular situation to want to rewatch this. Actually, I literally told my mom, like, mom, go ahead and you watch the nun without me. Because we didn't get to meet up and see it together like we had planned. So I'm like, you're gonna go and watch that with without me. You go right ahead. Here's the max login, and you go do that.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:21

Not trying to erase the nun out of the existence of this of this timeline.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:25

I am. I think I said earlier, sometimes, you know what? Maybe origin movies aren't necessary. And I feel like this is one of them. I am obviously in in company that disagrees with me, but I just feel like this is one of those examples. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:38

I agree, they don't always need them, you know. And I don't know if we needed this one, but we got it. So here we are reviewing it.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:46

Sometimes it's nice to have things that you don't need, but it's okay to just want. You know what I mean? Yeah. First off, you're trying to erase this shit, like Paramount straight up erased Grease Bries of the Pink Ladies from existence.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:57

That's this is a touchy moment for you, okay? Let's not bring that in here. We're if this is a sensitive time for you, and I'm trying to respect you grieving that show. Yeah. There's no need. Listen, okay. I am not giving Paramount and I'm not giving Grease despite my trash talking of that show that I've never even seen. I just, it's not my vibe. But I would never do that.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:15

Speaking of pink ladies, I actually want to share before we wrap this shit right up, and this is why I'm excited to re-watch this my love of the ending. Because I mentioned earlier that it reminds me of two things, and it made me smile uh in in ways that really tie into two things, and they're not going to be popular things. One of those is seeing a prequel, a la moments like you find in that show Pink Late Rise of the Pink Ladies, but it's like you see moments of like an established franchise, and they're just little additions that make you go back and it changes how you see the rest of the franchise. So for me, I love looking back and seeing how this impacts that one scene from The Conjuring where the mom is in their lecture.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:02

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:03

She's seeing the exorcism of Maurice.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:07

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:07

I really enjoyed that tie. I also really enjoyed that they slightly modified, altered the footage to have Maurice in there as opposed to the original actor who you could see. And I think some of the shots were still kept, but that modification just really blends that tie together very, very well. While I'm grateful that there's some stuff that you can watch in between, right? Like, don't get me wrong, I think you can watch this and then is it Annabelle creation before you even watch the conjuring?

SPEAKER_04 1:12:37

Yeah, I think so.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:38

Like it if you watch in the pure chronological order. So I'm glad that it's not bookended together because that change would have made it a difficult watch to go straight from like the nun into the conjuring. But that modification, it reminded me of when they altered, and I know this I'm so sacrilegious. When they all when they altered Sebastian Shaw, who's the older Anakin Skywalker in Return of the Jedi, and they showed you younger Anakin Skywalker, what he looked like when he was last a Jedi before he fell to the dark side on Endor.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:13

Gotcha, gotcha.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:14

I know I don't know, like that was as much of a stretch as this fucking movie's plot is, but whatever. Svench.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:20

Fair.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:21

But but I respect it.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:22

I respect it.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:23

Yeah. I think you know what? I've I've seen this one a couple times now. I I also I feel like I'm having fun, like kind of revisiting some of this timeline and going through this conjuring universe, but I don't know after watching it twice if I'm ever really gonna feel anytime soon, anyway, like I just want to go and watch this one unless I'm literally going through the entire universe and trying to go through the timeline, because otherwise, I think I think I'm good on this one.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:50

Well, I guess I'll be the only one re-watching it again, but for now, there you have it, folks. The nun from 2018 has earned two slashes and one hack. Now we certainly had a robust discussion here, but it doesn't end here by any means.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:03

We want to know what you think. Did the nun permanently make you scared of nuns? Let us know. You can join in on the conversation by hanging out with us for free in our Discord. Click the link in our show notes to sign up.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:14

And if you've enjoyed listening to us try to keep this evil at bay, consider taking your vows and become one of our patrons. Visit patreon.com/slash hackerslash to enjoy more of the show with early access, extended episodes, bonus content, and live shows.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:27

We'll see you next time, folks, and remember, there's a time for prayer and a time for action.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:33

You should begin heading back yourself. I imagine you don't want to be caught on those roads when night falls.