290: The Fly (1986)

SPEAKER_02 0:04

Oh my god, no! This is public! Spooky seasons, greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hacker Slash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. Be afraid. Be very afraid. If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack, a total joke, a waste of time, or a slash.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

Totally killer. Pun intended.

SPEAKER_02 0:33

We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, we're writing these movies with the perspective we've gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast. This week I'm joined by the Superfly Space Guy Mac.

SPEAKER_01 0:47

Don't you think that's worth a Nobel Prize or two?

SPEAKER_02 0:49

And the paranormal paramour Binx. You're disgusting, as always. This week we're breaking down an 80s remake of a science fiction horror film from 1958, which itself was based on a short story. Set in the heart of the 80s, one Maverick scientist over ambition leads him down a path of life-altering proportions, and the maestro of his story is none other than David Cronenberg, a luminary in the realm of body horror. This film follows the journey of a man whose brilliance is matched only by his eccentricity. His life's work, a groundbreaking experiment that could change the transportation world as we know it. But as we all know, the path to innovation is fraught with risks, and even the best laid plans can go awry. Dipping his toes in the waters of the mad scientist trope, Cronenberg crafted a narrative that is as much about the fallibility of human nature as it is about the perils of unchecked scientific curiosity. Armed with a $15 million budget to execute his vision, Cronenberg's film won an Academy Award for Chris Wallace's grotesque effects work and Saturn Awards for both its genre and actors. Its success cemented itself as a worthy successor to its 1958 counterpart, and to many, it's considered an upgrade. This week, we're talking about The Fly. Who's seen this one before?

SPEAKER_01 2:04

100% me. This is, I think, pretty obviously sci-fi horror in my book. This is right up my alley. This is something I've seen several times before.

SPEAKER_05 2:14

Yeah, I also have seen this movie before, definitely when I was younger. But actually, more recently, I've mentioned in the past couple episodes I'm working on this like top 100 horror movie scratch off poster. And so, of course, this was on there. And so I think I watched this, I think it was like in February or something like that. So back at it again with a fly.

SPEAKER_02 2:34

Yeah, I've never seen this movie or its predecessor before. And so I decided actually this time around I would watch it both back to back. Normally I'd watch them in chronological order, that's just my preference. But I opted to watch this one first to get the cleanest slate possible for it for this episode. And I've only seen images of the poster, a couple shots of Jeff Goldblum, and several images that led me to believe it'd be super gross. And that's the biggest expectation that I had, right? So I expected things to escalate quickly, and I thought they would be absolutely disgusting. I also realized, praise for shock, I've never seen a Cronenberg film. The closest I've ever gotten to one is seeing him play a role in Jason X. I cannot believe you just said that on our podcast. Well, here we are. Jason in space. Famed Cronenberg film.

SPEAKER_05 3:24

Famed Cronenberg film. Uber Jason. My god. My god. I don't even have words. I really don't. I'm kind of speechless. Look, uh okay, obviously I am a big Cronenberg fan, and hence why I'm speechless. I can't even believe that we have not reviewed a Cronenberg film until now. So that's that's to me. We're waiting for you this whole time. Maybe that's what it was. I don't really know. I hope I I don't even know if I can give such incredible insight, regardless. I just really like his movies. And really the reason is, and I've shared this in our past episodes, like I grew up watching Tim Burton films, but one film in particular, outside of him, was Cronenberg's Existence. It's one of my favorite movies. I've rewatched it so many times, so many times. And I think that because I grew up watching Existence, a couple other Cronenberg films, but like mostly remember Existence, I'm convinced that I've just been able to take Cronenberg's version of body horror. Never really any other horror movies up until like Terrifier, probably that like just changed the game for me to like just like Gore again. But just his movies in particular, you just know you're watching a Cronenberg film, and I can like withstand his type of body horror. So even now, when I rewatched The Fly earlier this year, and again to do this episode, like I was expecting what I was ex going to expect every single time I see Cronenberg, something that will be gross, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_01 4:54

It's interesting. I didn't really go into this with the whole like gross expectation. I've seen it, I know what to expect and all that kind of stuff. But this viewing, that's not even what I was concerned with. I was mostly thinking about a young Goldblum and a young Davis. That's what I'm that's what I'm expecting to see. I don't think they really peaked until much later. I don't know if they actually have peaked. I think Goldblum is probably at its peak now. So it's interesting that like I'm excited about seeing them in their youth and seeing them before they they've become such like well-known, I don't know, like just staples of film. This is when they were so fresh.

SPEAKER_02 5:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:27

And so that was what I was looking forward to was seeing them fresh, not so experienced.

SPEAKER_02 5:32

Seeing the two of them together, I was just absolutely floored by how captivating they both were. I think this might be my favorite performance of his in anything that I've seen him in. And I think it's also because this movie made me feel so many things, and I can think of like really five words in particular in this order. Captivated, disgusted, shocked, appalled, intrigued.

SPEAKER_01 5:56

First of all, how dare you steal my word? Because literally I wrote one word for this, which was captivating.

SPEAKER_03 6:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:02

You know, this film is absolutely going to like just grab your attention and keep you going as the story goes. It's not because the story is so like intricate and amazing or whatever, it's just the performances keep you just wrapped up in everything, right? And the story's interesting enough. It's a sci-fi story, it's a good one. It's been used in other kinds of circumstances. There is an episode of Star Trek, which is not one of my favorite episodes, but it's a good episode. It's from Star Trek Voyager season two, episode 24. It's called Tuvics, and it's a very similar kind of setup where you know they use transporters in Star Trek, right? And so they transport two people and they combine them into one person, and then they got to figure out if they can split them up. And is that moral to do so? Yeah, the story's good. It's obviously older than the movie, but I th I think the characters are what keep you just drawn in, and the visuals, the special effects in this movie are like just stupid good, especially for 1986. Even if they're not that great, they're just really good. Captivating. That's what this movie is. So thank you for throwing it out there first because I could I would have said it 12 times.

SPEAKER_05 7:03

And me with the 13th time, because it is captivating, 100%. You know what it is in particular, though, for me? I know that this movie is revered as a fan favorite. I mean, it's on my poster for a reason. A lot of my friends like love this movie. Some even consider this their comfort movie, which I think is hilarious because I can't imagine seeing some things in this movie as like comforting, but whatever. For me, it's that like Jeff Goldblum and Gina Davis, you guys brought it up earlier, like they are just incredible in this movie. And me in particular, of course, I'm gonna be all about seeing a fine as hell Jeff Goldblum. All right, it just hits different when it has to do with him and a fly, but like I'll forgive it. And as the youth say, they like to say this word Riz, which is like basically he has charisma. That's Jeff Goldblum as a person, and his character is basically him. Like it's nuts. He is one in the same with this main character, and it's just so good. That's what makes it so captivating to me. And then on top of that, taking it a step further, bringing in Gina Davis. At this point, a little bit of pop culture here, but at this point, both of them were actually dating, or I think they had just gotten married, or something like that. So, like, that's also what has to do with like the tension and the chemistry between the two of them because they're actually married or like together. Granted, they definitely got divorced later on, but whatever, we forget that part. Remove that part.

SPEAKER_01 8:27

Oh boy. And it was actually a problem though. So they had to kind of separate them while filming because they were so close, like their vocal patterns started to be too similar. So they had to like break them apart to stop that.

SPEAKER_05 8:40

God, the sexual tension. It's crissy. I think it's called chemistry. Chemistry, tens everything, all of it, everything captivating. Great that you bring that up because to me, and this is probably kind of a joke a little bit, nothing really surprises or disappoints me about this movie. If there is one thing to surprise me, I hope that this isn't too much of a spoilery connotation, friends, but I just gotta say it. I'm just surprised by how horny flies are. Is it just me?

SPEAKER_01 9:06

Is it the fly or is it the man? That's the real question.

SPEAKER_02 9:09

It's I think it's the man for sure.

SPEAKER_05 9:11

You think it's the man? Mm-hmm. I don't know. In the countless times that I've seen this movie growing up a little bit, like more in my teenage years. I I saw it like once or twice in college, but even this year alone, I think re-watching it now, I was like, damn Bianca, there's a lot of there's a lot of sexual heat going on in this movie here. Have you never noticed this?

SPEAKER_02 9:32

I'll see your horiness being a surprise, and I'll raise you. I am absolutely shocked how long we linger in things. Shit doesn't just immediately hit the fan in this movie, and that's fucking wild to me. It's like you're watching the shit hit the fan, but in slow motion. You're left to suffer through the shit's journey to the fan, like piece by piece, particle by particle. Oh. And the deterioration in this movie is insane to me. Particle by particle.

SPEAKER_05 10:01

That was a visual moment for me.

SPEAKER_02 10:03

Listen, this whole fucking movie is a visual moment. Yeah. And I'm also surprised how intense this story feels the longer it goes on. Because it's a sensation of just when you think things couldn't possibly get worse, there they go, getting worse.

SPEAKER_01 10:19

Yeah, I think it's is it Reservoir Dogs where they spend a good amount of time talking about storytelling, especially when you're telling a lie, is that what I'm thinking? Yeah. And it's just it's like a really good long joke where you have to add lots of details to make it seem really vivid. That's what they did here, right? Karneberg was like, okay, we know what's gonna happen. We saw the 1958 movie, but we have like two hours to do it. So let's just take our time showing you everything.

SPEAKER_02 10:45

Literally everything.

SPEAKER_01 10:47

Surprisingly, like they probably could have shown him going to the bathroom more. That we saw enough of it. Not using the bathroom, but going into the bathroom. And I believe he could have found a way to have him going into the bathroom even more.

SPEAKER_05 10:59

I don't know. That was nuts.

SPEAKER_01 11:01

Yeah. I was surprised. I mean, I knew kind of what to expect, of course, in terms of the film, but I forgot because it's been so long, how hard in the paint this movie went with its special effects. Like, all along, all the shit hitting the fan that you mentioned, Chris, every small detail, all the changes all along the way. I forgot just how crazily, how crazy they went. And there's a scene in the film that I can't tell you about because it's a spoiler right now, but there's a medical procedure referenced, and it is so disturbing of a scene, right? And I remember that there was like something referenced, but this I forgot just like how vividly they showed this very disturbing scene, and they show you the prop, and the special effects are too good and too gross and grotesque, really. And that just like completely escaped my memory. I was really just focused on the fly and not everything else going on.

SPEAKER_02 11:52

Oh gosh, yeah. See, that's where I really struggle with this movie, and not like struggle in a bad way, but I mean, I feel like I had to survive this movie in some ways, not the way that I had to survive Neon Demon or The Devil's Rejects, nothing like that. But while nothing in this movie terrified me, I was genuinely disgusted. And I actually thought I was gonna throw up a couple times. In fact, I think about a scene that we're gonna unpack later in the spoiler zone, and I almost throw up just thinking about it. And of course, Binx had to pull that gif as our notion card page. And it's just like, oh my god, it's just get the heebie jeebies. But that's really what does it for me here. And I think aside from that grotesqueness, I think the kind of fear that this might induce is more of an existential fear. We'll unpack that more in the spoiler zone, but I think that's what this is for me. Like it's not a scary movie in the way that you might expect a horror movie to be, but it's a scary movie in the way it makes you think and the amount that is gonna gross you out.

SPEAKER_01 12:56

Yeah, this is definitely one of those like ship of theseus kind of moments here. When am I no longer me? Is definitely a like a great existential question. Also, you need to watch existence like a thousand percent. I don't think you're gonna have the same well, you might have the same reaction, but you still need to watch it.

SPEAKER_04 13:12

Oh man, I'm thinking of one, I'm thinking of one scene in particular. So you don't have one hell of a reaction.

SPEAKER_01 13:17

Yeah. I don't think this movie's scary, though. I'm with you there. I don't think it's frightening to me, but I do think it is very grotesque. And I look at it and I see more of the sci-fi of things than I do the horror of things. Like I never even thought about this because I always lumped it in with other sci-fi movies. I never even thought about the horror of it all. It's obviously a horror movie, but in my mind it never came across that way. And I'm not scared by it because that's who I am. But like, there's images on screen that some people probably don't want to handle.

SPEAKER_05 13:48

Well, and I'm definitely one of them. The thing is that I am afraid of flies, flying insects, insects in general, just things that I don't enjoy. Like if a fly is like zooming around, I'm like hyper-vigilant. So truthfully, the idea that there would be someone as hot as Jeff Goldblum's morphing into a fly is just not fun. And I think in general, the movie obviously is nasty. So it's not scary in the traditional sense, it's not like it's a jump scare type of situation, and like I didn't even think of it as an existential type of thing either, actually. So that's interesting, but I can see it. To me, it's just like Bianca. Imagine if like your partner just became a fly. That's fucking nuts. That's terrifying. So no, just no. That's just one big no.

SPEAKER_01 14:43

Hey, that's like those Instagram challenges. Would you still love me if I were a fly?

SPEAKER_05 14:47

That's what I think about, Mac. That's what I think about. That's what I think about. Would you still love me if I'm a fly? We're gonna pack this in the spoiler zone. I have a whole thing about it because I can't even comprehend the slow particle shit hitting the fan moments such as this is terrifying in and of itself.

SPEAKER_02 15:05

Okay. So you bring up this whole like, would you still love me if I was a fly? And I think that is such an interesting difference between this and the original movie. Have either of you seen the original movie?

SPEAKER_05 15:16

I haven't, actually. No. I haven't, so sorry, Sean. I'm sorry, and you know, he's gonna forgive me later.

SPEAKER_02 15:21

Maybe it's a good thing that Sean isn't on this episode, because I think maybe if he was, it would have really needed to be an old versus new. Yeah. But man, okay, so from one angle, let's just break this down in terms of how this movie differentiates itself. From one angle, it's a mad scientist movie. It's not like you haven't seen something where someone borders on playing God and something goes awry. Things always go wrong when you fuck around and you do find out. But this is such a different take from both the original short story and the 1958 film, because those stories were woven with science fiction and murder mystery. And I think about the amount of love story in that, and this one focuses way more on body horror, like an allegory for terminal illness, and the love story feels more like complete tragedy, and that is such a different feeling to walk away from.

SPEAKER_05 16:16

I see. So, to my point then, it seems like the original would hit harder in terms of would you still love me? versus this one is just well, not necessarily it's illness.

SPEAKER_02 16:28

It's wild because I think they both require the same things of the people involved in the love story. This one I think does go into the would you still love me a little bit more? Because I think of the feeling of uh that I felt watching this and some of the reactions that we get between our two main characters, but then in the original, it's just such a different story that it feels even more like partnership. It's just wild. I can't wait to get into it in the spoiler zone. But I'm gonna have we're gonna have a blast breaking it down.

SPEAKER_05 16:56

I was gonna say, yeah, I haven't seen the original and I had every intense purposes of doing kind of like what you did, which was just watching the original after seeing this one. But then I thought to myself, Bianca, you can't fuck with flies, you know what I mean? Like you can't even, this is a lot, there's a lot of fly action twice this year already. Let's just wait a little bit. So it'll have its time. That being said, though, would love if maybe we review it later on in the future or something like that, because I was curious to see what the differences were. Because although this is obviously based on a short story and then it's a remake, right? Like there's that originality debate that we love to have, but it seems like this movie is revered because it is so great at veering away from the original content, actually, and dabbling with leaning into the gore, dabbling with the humor. Because this movie's funny, man. I laugh a lot, and it really does have to do with Jeff Goldblum. I think he's just like, again, that's his personality, his delivery, his comedic timing. That it leans into that, that makes the difference. But I guess it hearing your perspective on having seen the original, I was always curious as to like, okay, why usually the remakes are never so much better than the originals, and this is a perfect example of that.

SPEAKER_02 18:14

It's just so powerful because I love after watching both, I really love how the original approached things, and I think it's a lot of intrigue. And I think as someone who does tend to like older films, I appreciate it. But this movie did not do what so many other remakes do. Rob Zombies Halloween takes a classic and then just like adds a lot of gore, adds a lot of backstory, and it does something else, right? This one takes the original story, builds upon it, and makes it more intense while also respecting the whole point of it. And that is what I think this really nails.

SPEAKER_01 18:48

I think you could say that it's technically not original, right? Technically, but like practically. Practically it is. Practically, it is completely original. The depth, like you said, the depth is what's it is what they're using to make it its own thing that you cannot say is another thing. I mean, it I think it goes all the way to the very end, but this ending here is as memorable to me as like the thing, which was only a couple years earlier.

SPEAKER_05 19:13

I have to agree with you in terms of the ending, it is like the height of nastiness is occurring here at this end. If you are easily squeamish, aka Chris, maybe kinda, sort of. Not really. I'm not. You're not easily squeamish. Some things just like just do it. So I was gonna ask you at some point tonight. I was gonna ask you if you like did feel like you were gonna vomit because this movie will do it. So I'm glad that you didn't, but you were almost there.

SPEAKER_02 19:36

Almost, almost. I watched a shit around eating the time of eating breakfast, and I never eat breakfast, and I was like, what the fuck am I doing?

SPEAKER_05 19:43

Bold, very bold.

SPEAKER_02 19:44

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_05 19:45

Yeah, no, this is peak stuff right here. I also think it's like it's sad, it's gross as hell. I also think it's abrupt, too, kind of like towards the end, but you don't need more, it's to the point, and I appreciate it for that. And it's giving women get shit done.

SPEAKER_02 19:59

Yeah. It gives women get shit done. Oh, that's such a good way to put it. I personally love the ending, and I feel like it's been a little while since I've said that I've loved the ending of something completely, but I think I'm blown away by how much the results are absolutely perfect on paper. However, comma, I do take umbrage at the subtext and some of the implications for characters and relationships towards the end. And it's not something that's like for real, for real, like there. I think you could walk away from this movie not taking any of that, but it was there for me, it was present for me, and ooh, I can't wait to unpack it further because I got thoughts. But I think we gotta start making our way towards our ratings so we can actually get into the spoiler zone and break all this shit down. But before we reveal our scores, Mac, how would you write the gore score?

SPEAKER_01 20:46

Yeah, we've mentioned that this movie gets really gross and grotesque. It's probably a different type of gore than most people are expecting from horror movies, but it is very high.

SPEAKER_05 20:56

And what about the animal report? If you think that this animal report would be safe considering the subject matter, you're insanely mistaken. Things get nasty, my friends, and PETA is not a fan of certain things exploding.

SPEAKER_02 21:07

Well, let's go ahead and get into our ratings and The Fly from 1986. Was it a hacker or a slash?

SPEAKER_01 21:12

Just amazing things came out in 1986, you know? Labyrinth. You, which is a classic. Me. Yeah. This movie also came out in 1986. Just really good stuff. And it's a classic. I'm gonna be straight up. This movie is a classic. I'm sure that the 1958 is technically a classic, but just like me, this movie is absolutely a classic. It is so good. The acting is phenomenal. For 1986, the special effects, again, are they just stupid good. They're gross, they're effective. They're not overused though. They're just incredibly bombastic, I think. But I think like like you mentioned earlier, though, Chris, the power of the allegory in this film is it's so strong. It's a little bit on the nose once you realize it, like once you put two and two together, you're Like, oh wow, I could literally just read this completely differently now. But I think it's good. I think it's effective. I think if you can stomach this film, you're gonna have a great time. And if you can't, you're missing out a little bit. But overall, it is an absolute slash.

SPEAKER_05 22:13

Yeah, look, I'm gonna follow up with similar vibes, not gonna lie. I mean, I've already said I haven't seen the original, but my gut continues to tell me, and even after getting into it with you, Chris, it continues to tell me that this is a stellar adaptation. It's got a mix of everything that I can appreciate. It's the sci-fi horror that I've been kind of missing in my life most recently. I've I really want more of sci-fi horror in theaters, and it's just Cronenberg, and I've always loved Cronenberg. So, you know, Jeff Goldblum, Gina Davis, they're rock stars, and like even the pacing of the story is so great, everything is solid, solid, solid. I mean, yes, you're in for a very disgusting ride, but it's a treat as well. It's a good horror movie, and some of Cronenberg's simplest work, because if you know Cronenberg and his filmography and his stories, it gets wild. So there's just a lot to enjoy here. I've already seen this movie twice this year, and with my heavy disdain for flies, that should tell you plenty. So it is a hundred percent a slash for me.

SPEAKER_02 23:15

You know, earlier I mentioned I was blown away by elements of the ending and how well it comes together. And I think I'm also just blown away by how much I love this movie, in spite of how disgusting it is. This is an instance where the gore in a film supports the narrative versus exploiting gore and cessationalized violence for pure shock and awe value. I watched this movie and I immediately was struck by needing to process it, needing to do look up anything I could about it, and then looking at okay, what happens in the sequel, although the service formerly known as HBO Max immediately cued up the sequel and ruined the question that I had about the ending right there in the description of the movie. But this movie has been on my mind nonstop since I watched it, which ensures that it has all the hallmarks of a slash. And with that, the fly from 1986 has earned itself a universal slash. Now you can find this movie available online. You can check the link in our show notes to find where you can check it out right now. But once you do, join us in the second half so we can unpack it together in the spoiler zone. We'll see you in a bit.

SPEAKER_05 24:37

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SPEAKER_02 25:55

Just one. The kill. That one, you know, you know the one. You understand.

SPEAKER_01 26:00

Yes, there was one kill. We can say that much for humans, but there's more than humans.

SPEAKER_02 26:06

Oh, that poor sweet bamboo. It's fucked. And you know what? I was confident it was fucked without even seeing what was in the other pod because we knew it wouldn't end well, and then we got the bloody paw print. Ugh, an absolutely disgusting fucking mess that reminded me of the thing.

SPEAKER_01 26:21

Yes, that is so true.

SPEAKER_02 26:22

It was just a blob.

SPEAKER_01 26:24

They didn't have to say it out loud, but basically the thing got turned inside out.

SPEAKER_02 26:28

Yeah. I really feel, Seth, that we could have done something that was maybe one step between article of clothing and fucking live baboon.

SPEAKER_01 26:38

Yeah, it's interesting that they didn't go with a rat, and that's like I feel like the standard unit for testing animals, right?

SPEAKER_02 26:45

An insect. Literally anything. If you're gonna like start venturing into that shit, you could have just tried something else before something quite that big and expensive.

SPEAKER_03 26:52

Right.

SPEAKER_02 26:53

Not that the expensive price is the most important part of this.

SPEAKER_05 26:56

Well, I guess you said insects, and I mean technically that did inadvertently happen. Inadvertently.

SPEAKER_01 27:01

Yeah. They also could have gone. I mean, if you're testing organic material, you could have gone for something that was already dead and seen how that translated, and then I don't know. But yeah, there's a lot going on in here. And when we try to go into the kill, the kill in this film is in reality almost two hours long.

SPEAKER_03 27:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:17

Right? Because it's not something that necessarily just obviously it happens at the end, and we can talk about that, but it is a whole transformation that leads us there. Are there any of those gross moments along the way that were your favorites, if you will, or maybe standouts?

SPEAKER_02 27:33

You know what? It was all fucking disgusting. So let me just say that my favorite moment was the exclamation point to all of it, which was the shotgun blast of the insect head. Because fuck that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:44

And it it wasn't even just an insect head, it was the fly that had been merged with machinery at that point. Mm-hmm. Even more mangled.

SPEAKER_05 27:53

Telefly. God, just so nasty. But you know what I pictured? Like, that's what I look like when I'm trying to take down a roach that's flying around the kitchen.

SPEAKER_01 28:01

Oh my gosh. Could you imagine this movie, except it's a cockroach?

SPEAKER_05 28:05

Oh I would never, ever watch it. I would never watch it. That is cursed.

SPEAKER_02 28:12

We didn't deserve that. You ruined this for everyone. You took it too far.

SPEAKER_05 28:17

No, no, no. That's fucked. Look, my favorite nasty part, if we really want to think of it that way, I guess. The ear falling off was just that was the moment. That was it. And what was worse is that after that happened, she hugged him, and I was like, Jesus Christ, Veronica. Was the sex that good? It had to have been. And that was love. That was, I don't know, man. I don't know, man. It had to have been because there was no way on this planet. No way on this planet. First of all. Way before he'd looked the way that he did in that moment. There's I'm so sorry. I'm maybe I am vain. Call it my Virgo. I don't know what it is. But like there is no way that I would have hugged or gotten close to that pus. But this man's ear fell off. And then you know what the worst part of it all is is that she went in for the hug on the side where the ear was missing. Yeah. Her face was next to the part where the ear hole is.

SPEAKER_01 29:15

Yeah. See, if Rob Zombie made this film, that would have happened, except we would have seen it stick to her.

SPEAKER_05 29:21

Oh. God damn it, Mac.

SPEAKER_02 29:23

What are you doing tonight?

SPEAKER_01 29:24

You're welcome.

SPEAKER_02 29:25

Mac, you're really going in. Rob Zombie's the fly.

SPEAKER_01 29:28

Yeah, we would have learned though that the fly had a troubled upbringing. I think there was a lot of gruesome moments, especially as things get much, much worse towards the end. But the part that's like absolutely terrifying to me is the fingernail thing. It's gross, but we've seen it. We've been there, no big deal, or whatever. But having had so many dental issues in my life, the teeth, the teeth falling out or being pulled out, that for me really sealed the deal. That was like extra disgusting, but also incredibly effective because yeah, you don't need teeth.

SPEAKER_02 30:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:02

If you're a fly.

SPEAKER_02 30:03

Man, let me tell you how sad this moment was. And I again I told you early that I couldn't stop thinking about this movie. A few days after watching this, when I was at work, I had someone telling me a story of like, I guess it's their spouse's grandmother, so their grandmother-in-law. And she called them because she'd been freaking out because she was brushing her teeth and a tooth just fell out. And I was like, man, that's so sad. Like you're aging, you're getting to this age where you're falling apart. And how terrifying must that be to be at this point in your life when you're looking at this little tooth and you're like, fuck, it's all downhill from here.

SPEAKER_01 30:38

Oh, well, I can tell you that from personal experience. So I've had so many, so many dental issues over the years, all stemming from a really bad dentist when I was young. And yeah, I've literally had a tooth just break while eating popcorn.

SPEAKER_02 30:51

Maybe you should consider a lawsuit.

SPEAKER_01 30:53

It's definitely past that point, I think. Now it's been 20 years. But if anybody knows anybody, or if anybody's a dentist and wants to give me a free mouth, hook me up. Yeah, it's just that's that kind of horror to me is so effective because I've lived it. And before I went through it, I used to have nightmares about it. I think like dental issues are actually a pretty common nightmare or like fear or something like that, right? It's like really gross. And so I used to be freaked out by that idea, and then it happened to me where yeah, like a tooth just cracks in half and comes apart. And so I can like I feel it when it happens on screen. Like, I'm like, yep, been there. That sucks. Doesn't feel good whatsoever. I've also had acid reflux most of my adult life. And so when he starts transforming into the fly and spits out the fly goop, one is disgusting, but it just it's the wrong color or the wrong viscosity or something. I don't like it whatsoever.

SPEAKER_02 31:41

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 31:42

Yeah. But yeah, it just I guess it all makes sense if you had this massive acidic spit, your teeth would be unnecessary.

SPEAKER_02 31:48

The milky acid vomit, and especially when it's going over the fucking donut in his hand, that fucking oh my god, yeah, that was nasty as all hell.

SPEAKER_05 31:58

That was nasty as all hell.

SPEAKER_01 31:59

Okay, I mentioned this in the first half of the episode, but the part that was really grotesque to me was Gina Davis in the stirrups having her nightmare. And then we see what could be described as, I guess, we will call it her child from her on the fly, but in reality it it's just like a giant grub.

SPEAKER_02 32:18

Yeah, the larva. The larva baby, the larva fetus.

SPEAKER_01 32:21

It was giving a racer head.

SPEAKER_05 32:22

You know what? I actually saw this movie and then I watched Prometheus afterwards. Nice. And it also, I don't Chris, you've seen Prometheus? No. Okay, well, it's fine. Maybe it's a good one.

SPEAKER_01 32:35

It reminds you of the deacon.

SPEAKER_05 32:37

Yes, yeah. It very similar. I was like, man, back-to-back scenarios here. This is creepy and disgusting.

SPEAKER_01 32:44

Yeah, they're pretty similar ideas.

SPEAKER_05 32:46

Yeah, I see Prometheus, I see this, and then I'm like, that those kinds of scenes are nasty, and I would be having nightmares too. Hello.

SPEAKER_01 32:54

It's true. That's true. But the saddest part is like in reality, what if their child were completely normal? Is it a disease that's passed on because genetics and all that?

SPEAKER_02 33:02

Yeah, I mean, this does hit differently with the changes or the challenges to women's reproductive rights that we've had as of late. So watching this for the first time ever and having this narrative in the landscape of how and where and when we're living, it hits.

SPEAKER_01 33:21

It's kind of crazy because I feel like when we got to that part, I think I also had like that same effect on me, right? Where I'm watching that and I was like, man, this is it's a very different landscape now. Very different landscape.

SPEAKER_02 33:31

Listen, and I know that we're gonna talk and get into some scenes in a minute, but I have to just say that was my favorite scene in the movie because of the evolution of the feelings I felt from a few seconds before to a few seconds after. There's a moment where Stathis is challenging her, saying that you can't go. What if he's contagious? And she's saying she has to go. And in my mind, I was like, listen, babe, he already ejaculated it in you. If it's contagious, you already have it. And I was thinking purely in the body fluid perspective, right? Just like how illnesses can transmit from one human to another. And then she says she's pregnant, and I was like, She's fucking pregnant, bro. What? It's like my mind couldn't even go there. It's like within the realm of the horror that is this movie, I could not even fathom her having his offspring. Then it comes to this nightmare, and she's having to push out this creature, and it's a fucking larva. You think, oh, man, whew, it's just a nightmare. And I got really relieved and I was like, oh, clearly this whole fucking thing was a nightmare. And then I realized, shit, wait, she was just actually pregnant. And that takes you into the moment where she's like going to confront him and she's gonna tell him, but then she can't. And man, the emotional impact of this entire revelation set the tone for the rest of the movie, and I was like, man, it really do be getting worse.

SPEAKER_01 34:55

Yeah, that they took the break off and they're just rolling straight downhill at this point.

SPEAKER_02 34:58

This shit went zero to a hundred, but still somehow went a cool 40 miles an hour.

SPEAKER_01 35:04

Okay, so one, yes, that's a great scene. It's a lot of disturbing, of course, absolutely, very much so. But I have to admit, I enjoyed some very early scenes that were very, I don't know, they're kind of silly. But when they're just like going out to eat and chatting, it's gotta be the chemistry, I think. But I really enjoyed their time just like hanging out as they're learning, and especially as he's like early on in the transformation before he becomes like, I don't know, Spider-Man 3, where he's got the strut. Yeah, before he hits that level when he's just like feeling good, it's really I think it's interesting to see that dynamic change because it's pretty evident, like they're still cool, they still have good chemistry, but he is becoming a different person slowly.

SPEAKER_02 35:45

And the speed at which he is speaking, he is literally buzzing like a fly would buzz around. Yeah, I don't like it.

SPEAKER_05 35:52

But I do like that. The what you were mentioning, Mac, about like the earlier moments. Some of those moments, there's like a visual thing that I like about Cronenberg that he did, which was he kind of made it seem like it was found footage perspective, but not fully, because he was using like the camera that she was using to record the documentary or whatever, right? So I thought that was kind of nice, and it also kind of just made it a little bit more like I don't know, like you really could read the chemistry and then working together through those perspectives. So I love that. And to be honest, my favorite scene is Seth being basically an Olympic gold gymnast and doing full-on Spider-Man 3 and just flip-flopping all everywhere, Veronica in the background. I mean, hell, that that was me. That I'm out here like scoping like them. Alright, gymnast, okay. I see you, you know?

SPEAKER_02 36:46

There's the horny beings.

SPEAKER_05 36:47

Look, you're gonna tell me that Jeff Goldblum flip-flopping around doing all those kinds of crazy things with crazy forearm strength. Is it gonna make you feel some type of way? Yeah, I mean, he's a good looking guy. It's impressive.

SPEAKER_01 36:58

Say maybe not Chris, though.

SPEAKER_05 36:59

Maybe not okay, obviously.

SPEAKER_01 37:00

Or me.

SPEAKER_05 37:01

Listeners, right? Come on, somebody. Tell I can't be the only one. It's impossible for me to be the only one. Quite literally, I know that I can't be the only one because Gina Davis married him. So hello. It worked. Now, the caveat here is that of course at this point he is starting to become a fly, and that that hits different. That does hit different.

SPEAKER_01 37:21

It is funny we've kind of jokingly mentioned Spider-Man because you know, Spider-Man goes through a similar transformation, and in some cases he becomes man spider, right? And it's like, oh gosh, if this was the plot of Spider-Man, it would be such a very different movie where we see the horror of it. And that would be, listen, Marvel, make Spider-Man a horror movie, okay? Make the fly but in spider form, okay? You can do it, it'll sell a bunch, whatever. But in this film, it is interesting because like I feel like we've mentioned pacing, the pacing is great, although steady. Somehow they're able to give us a feeling of acceleration. So it's like we we know that things are going to happen, we can tell that something's changing, but the rate at which the change occurs is increasing. And I think they just do a great job here showing that. Like that's one of those great scenes where it goes from like I'm feeling good and I can have sex for five hours. All of a sudden, now he's like a gymnast and he wasn't before, he was the super nerd, and then like it goes real quick into the next phase, and it just like keeps accelerating to the very end of the film, where of course we get that just massive visual of his complete body changing. But it's just it's impressive that you can show acceleration while keeping a steady pace somehow.

SPEAKER_05 38:36

Even with him like going to the fridge and like just starting to grab things, and like even the way that he's talking, like you said earlier, like it's the subtle methods that they're using to pick up the train, right? Like keep it moving really quickly to get you to understand, like he's slowly transforming, but nothing that makes you feel like, oh, we're going zero to five thousand from one second to the next, in a way, I guess. At least that's how I felt. I think it was very subtle at first until it becomes visually apparent that he is like really getting gnarly.

SPEAKER_01 39:05

And I think that's what Chris expected, right? Which is what most movies are gonna do, is it's gonna be there's a before and there's an after. Most of the movie is gonna take place either in the before or the after, right? And this movie lives in that gray, it lives in the in-between where it's changing the whole damn time.

SPEAKER_02 39:19

Yeah, man, when you're talking about the progress or the rate at which he changes and it feels like an acceleration while also not feeling like an acceleration for the story. I think the closest my brain can get is if you're standing on the side of the highway and you see someone just drive by at 100 miles an hour, you're like, holy fuck, that is fast. But then if you were to zoom out and look at a whole like top-down sky-down view of this person maybe driving 100 miles from the east coast to the west coast, it still doesn't fucking feel very fast. You know what I mean? They're moving- it looks like they're moving in a snail's face. And I think that is the interesting perspective that this movie operates from with relation to that transformation and that change. But isn't it wild that all it takes is one insect to interact with a guy, and then all of a sudden he's just barely hanging on and he's already a dick.

SPEAKER_01 40:05

There's something that where he like starts to feel the power, but he I think he kind of realized it though, because he warns her eventually, right? He warns her that he's going to lose any sense of morality, and he's going he's not gonna be able to keep himself from acting like a fly. Yeah, it's like he could feel that slipping away, but he couldn't feel it slipping away when he went searching for some strange.

SPEAKER_05 40:26

That's that's what I was gonna say. I was like, not initially when he was like, you don't want to get in that little uh pod, okay, well, I'm gonna find me another bitch that does.

SPEAKER_03 40:34

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_05 40:35

Literally, it's kind of like how he put it that way.

SPEAKER_02 40:37

And I'm like, meh, all right, well, it's true, it's absolutely true. And I think the reason why I think it shifts so much for me is because even though he was charming, and you could think he's a well-intending person, even when we meet him in the beginning, as charming as he can be, he's pretty fucking smug. And he says some pretty fucking creepy shit. And it seems as though perhaps he's not as predatory as he has the capacity to be because he's so fucking focused on his work. You know what I mean? But even then, he's still a little predatory. He's still like for this work to be such a fucking secret, he whips it out the first second he meets a pretty woman. You know what I mean? Like he takes her to his place, he doesn't explain a lick of anything, and then he scoffs at her not being able to piece it together. She's like, it's too what? It's like two phone booths. What the fuck? You know what I mean? Like it's just a little bit of ug.

SPEAKER_05 41:29

You know what it reminds me of? Hear me out, okay? There's a scene in Barbie where they reference like how men can be sometimes, and especially like talking to women when they're trying to flaunt and flirt and stuff like that. And this reminds me of a particular moment where they're like basically mansplaining things, right? Or just in the scene in Barbie, they're like, Oh, you haven't seen Godfather? Like, oh my gosh, let me show you. Like, which is such a thing that has happened to me. So I that's fact. That is spot on. This is kind of that where like Seth is like, Oh, you don't get it? Oh, let me explain it to you. Which just goes to show you that Veronica is a representation of women in STEM or in STEM adjacent spaces where like they are surrounded by men that basically belittle them constantly and feel like they have to explain to her shit that quite frankly, like, sir, sorry if I don't understand one simple concept. You're out here basically transporting things and failed.

SPEAKER_02 42:28

So, but the other element is that he's not even using his fucking words, he's using jargon, he's using so many fucking technical terms, and she's like, What the fuck, bro? If you're that smart, have some fucking social instinct. You know what I mean? Just like bring it down just a little bit. But that's I think the interesting thing here where we can see his transformation. Is he becoming more beast than man, or is he becoming who he actually is without the distraction of his work? And that's where it is for me.

SPEAKER_05 42:57

Well, and let's also remember that technically, this whole shit show happened because literally he thought that she was still in love with this other piece of shit, man. Like, leave it to men typically to just kind of do something stupid because they're jealous and insecure.

SPEAKER_02 43:13

Yeah, and a little drunk. Professional scientist. And a little drunk, and a little drunk. Professional scientist who has poured his life and his soul into this work. He flies too close to the fucking sun. Literally and figuratively. Because he's drunk, he's insecure, and he's concerned about the woman he's seeing. I really want it better for him. I really want it better for him.

SPEAKER_01 43:33

I did mention, right, that this is possibly the person that was always there underneath. And when you go back to the beginning of the movie and watch it for the umpteenth time, you realize he has invited a woman he just met to his back alley murder factory, right? And she just rolls right in there like it's no big deal. Like obviously, she's a little bit like, mm, this seems a little bit sketch, but she walks in. She walks into a place with a giant sliding door. Right? That thing like rolls open. He's like, Oh, come inside, right? And she's just like, Okay.

SPEAKER_02 44:04

This is it. It's cleaner on the inside. He fucking and then at one point he says, Can't let you leave now, you've seen it. What the fuck? You don't say that to a woman you just met, Seth. What the fuck? And look, this is not me hating on Jeff Goldblum, because again, I do like this character and I do think that what ends up befalling him is a tragedy, but holy fuck.

SPEAKER_01 44:27

No, the okay, so wait, Binx. Their romance to me is the one place where the pacing doesn't make sense, right? Because it it's kind of shown that there, like something's going on, and he's of course very charming and she's intrigued, and she's there to do a job, but also intrigued by this individual. But it seems like, with the power of movie magic, that it's like three days and they're massively in love.

SPEAKER_05 44:49

Bro, they you hauled. It's giving the you-haul. You're right. You're right. There you go.

SPEAKER_01 44:55

And I don't know that we need a montage of like her notebooks stacking up or him like pacing or anything like that. That would be that's too cliche, but there is an issue there. Maybe that's actually what they're showing us, is that they quickly fell in love with each other that hardcore. But I have a feeling that whole sequence actually took a lot longer than it seems on screen.

SPEAKER_05 45:12

But you know what it is to me? It's that like I think because I knew that they were already together, like as actors, I think I just overlooked that and just bought in. Because when you remove that part, really what it comes down to is it's lust. It's not really love. Because, like, from the get-go, at least even re-watching it just now, like the first 20 minutes of the movie, you're already like, are they gonna fuck or what? Because they're just like she didn't even like waste any time per se. Like, she was there, she was like, Let's go. She did her little thing, she made that move. I was like, All right, girl, let's go. But like, again, that's lust. Now all of a sudden, you're like being all cuddly and stuff like that. I'm like, ma'am, she all the red flags were there, and you still made a bold move. Let's recalibrate for a second. You know what?

SPEAKER_02 46:05

She is Veronica. She is a famed intrepid journalist. She is the horror genre's Lois Lane. If she was also mixed with Gail Weathers, and Gail Weathers starred in a sci-fi film and wasn't quite as cutthroat. That's a mix. Wow, that's a recipe.

SPEAKER_01 46:20

But what drew her to Stathus, you know, because we can kind of see, okay, they have this special chemistry, right? So Seth and Veronica, they quickly look into each other's. Maybe that's what it was. They were at the they were at the little gathering, they stared into each other's eyes and they did that social experiment. They somehow had the feelings for each other or the hots for each other. But her and status, was it a power dynamic? Is that what did it?

SPEAKER_02 46:42

I would actually say that it wasn't the power dynamic that did it in terms of her maybe admiring him, but it certainly was a power dynamic that exploited it. And I'm gonna let Bink stink this one, but this man is a literal piece of fucking human garbage.

SPEAKER_05 46:57

Oh my god, I hate this character so much. I hate this character so much. He literally okay, going back to what I was saying earlier about Veronica being a woman in STEM or SEM-adjacent, you know what I mean? Like, he is basically weaponizing his like power and like his role and using it against her constantly throughout this film. I mean, at one point he literally, after being so shitty, is like, well, we can't even just like have sex, like casual sex. I was like, sir, this is a movie from a long time ago. And why does this still remind me of men today?

SPEAKER_02 47:36

Like just I'm scared. I'm scared, I'm scary out there. Because the patriarchy and misogyny never fucking changes, it just alters its shape slightly. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_05 47:48

Look, I'm just all I'm saying is like you really have to have tremendous, you know what I mean? Like, like you have to have some gumption, okay? To make a statement like that after all the things that you have already done, sir. But you know what? That's why I my favorite quote. That's when she responds to him, you're disgusting, as always, because I'm glad that that's established. Now, everything that he does after the movie, it's like, let's hold on to that fact, please, because it is very clear that that's all he is a very terrible and disgusting man.

SPEAKER_01 48:22

He breaks into her apartment and takes a shower.

SPEAKER_05 48:25

Sitting there on that couch, like he just like like he owns the place.

SPEAKER_02 48:29

Sir, who are you? Oh my gosh, she tells him to get out. He she wants the key, he says he'll keep it. I fucking hate him. I absolutely hate him. And I have some other specific words reserved for him as we get later into this episode, but this man stalks her. He fucking stalks her, and then it's like this trauma bonds them together, and I fucking hate it.

SPEAKER_01 48:56

I know that you you you said the fly two was spoiled for you. My hope at the end of the film was that he goes through this experience, she goes through this experience, he's like, Oh, this brings us closer together, and she goes, No, no, thank you. But no. That was my hope secretly, because I've never seen the sequel, but that's what I prayed would happen. It was she'd be like, Oh my god, thank you for saving me. This was so traumatic. I'm quitting, by the way. You're no longer my boss, and uh appreciate it. Have a good life.

SPEAKER_02 49:20

Okay, so I hate to break it to you that there are some things that might be disappointing for you that don't even have to wait for the fly to. Now, Binks was looking at some deleted scenes, and there's some details there that really grind my gears that stoke the flames of pure discontent in my soul.

SPEAKER_01 49:38

I am happy though, that at least his hand and his foot paid some kind of price.

SPEAKER_05 49:43

I was gonna say, I was gonna say, Brundlefly, thank you. You did your service. If you did anything at all, you did that.

SPEAKER_02 49:51

He can basically be a member of the Skywalker family at this point.

SPEAKER_05 49:54

Oh, don't do that to the Skywalkers. A general statement though, this movie has very, very little characters in it.

SPEAKER_03 50:00

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_05 50:00

I can count them with barely one hand, maybe. So props to that. I think with it just in general having very little characters, it's still like so much fun. Didn't need to good thing though, it didn't need to have so many different characters and like side people and like a whole bit. I think with what we got was what we got. And sure, Seth, unfortunately, is just his Riz just became a little too much of an asshole vibe towards the fly end. And then Stathas was really just a piece of shit. So unfortunately, the main characters to some extent are not so splendid, but we didn't need everybody else, or or rather, we didn't need more people, and the few others are just like obviously the like the doctor Cronenberg, who's the gynecologist, like little cameos here and there, but they're not necessarily like big roles.

SPEAKER_01 50:50

So it's kind of nice though, right? Because it feels a lot cleaner, even though the movie is disgusting and gross, like the makeup of the film, it's smoother because they didn't add extra crap to it. They focus on just what we needed to focus on.

SPEAKER_02 51:03

For a very complex story, this is a very simple movie. Yeah. And that's super weird to say. I think it's honestly a testament to Cronenberg, to the entire team and the creative force behind this movie, because this had so many opportunities to lose you, and it still just kept you hooked right in.

SPEAKER_05 51:23

And I and again, this is for sure one of Cronenberg's like simplest, like to the point stories. And it could be because it is an adaptation of an adaptation. So like it's not like he could really just take it and run with it like he has his other ones, right? But one thing the thing with Cronenberg is that like it's not just the body core that's his mark, that's his most notable one, obviously. But the thing with Cronenberg and all of his work is that it has a lot of, of course, sexual like innuendos and undertones and like relationships and how they are in relation to sex. So that's what that was his second touch to this. That's why I keep joking around and bringing it up. It's because that's how he is. That's how in all of his movies, that tension and like relationships and using lust is his he loves exploring that stuff. So I'm glad that he was able to do that, plus his body horror stuff with something so simple. You don't need it to be crazy. You watch his other stuff, yeah. That that thing's gonna twist and turn your brain 5,000 different ways.

SPEAKER_01 52:25

I I think I've mentioned it before, but like I always find the best sci-fi is where sci-fi is as part of the movie, it's not the movie though. And this is, I think, really effective here. This movie doesn't have to be about a man turning into a fly. This could be a movie about a scientist who struggles with bipolar disorder. This could be a movie about a scientist who ends up with cancer or something, right? Like this could be Dr.

SPEAKER_02 52:46

Jekyll, Mr. Hudd.

SPEAKER_01 52:48

Right. It doesn't matter what it's about, right? Like that in terms of that moment, that part, that small detail, it's really about the characters here and about their struggles in between them. That's why it's so effective. Is like the sci-fi is part of the setting. Sure, that's great. And it's very effective visually, but the characters are what drive the story here, and that's why it works.

SPEAKER_02 53:05

Yeah, and that's really what even when you think about any good zombie movie, the best zombie movies are the ones that focus on the lack of humanity, but not because of the zombies. Like the zombies are a catalyst for these circumstances and these interactions, but the zombies aren't usually the best, most intrical part of the movie. But I think this is what's really interesting. You you talked about Banks Cronenberg's exploration of lust and the love that's in this movie. Are y'all okay if I share a little bit about the differences and the dynamics between the this and the original? Yeah. Sure. So in the original movie, take the ending of this movie and put it at the front.

SPEAKER_00 53:42

What?

SPEAKER_02 53:43

I know. Why? This man has turned into a fly. His wife and mother of his child assisted him in his suicide. Uh mm-hmm. And then the rest of the movie is a mystery trying to understand what happened because a night watchman sees her running away after hearing a hydraulic press come down in a factory, and he discovers a body. He's like, What the hell? There's so much blood, etc. Vincent Price plays the guy's brother. So it's Vincent Price and the inspector who goes to her house, she's kept at her home with a nurse, and she is pretending to be mad. And this whole movie is a journey to uncovering what happened, and then you finally get a flashback to Andre and his work, and then you get a transformation into a fly. It's fucking wild. So to see their love and their interactions and how that framed their entire story, it's so interesting to see the difference here.

SPEAKER_05 54:44

My jaw is dropped, and I gotta be honest, that sounds like a movie I'd really freaking like. I love me a good mystery, like murder mystery type of noir type thing situation, which I mean I guess it's not too much of that, but like a little bit from the sound of it.

SPEAKER_02 54:59

Yeah. Honestly, it's streaming on Max.

SPEAKER_05 55:01

No, I know, I saw. I swear, I really was gonna watch it again, but I was like, I don't know how many more flies I can take. It would be super easy for you from a fly perspective. The worst part is simple, and it is stathis. I have nothing else more to say. That character is absolute trash, and the misogyny that is emanating from his pores is quite strong. So I could do without him. He's necessary for the film and I get it, and blah blah blah blah blah. But yeah, I he's abysmal.

SPEAKER_02 55:31

The misogyny secretes from his pores the same way that fluid sweat secretes from Seth's when he's doing that arm wrestling bit. Damn.

SPEAKER_00 55:42

Lovely.

SPEAKER_02 55:42

I forgot about that part. It's true. It's fucking true. Status is absolutely the worst part of this fucking movie. And I think the worst part of it for me is seeing the way that he and Veronica are bonded together through this trauma. And I want to think at the end of this, right, that it's not the case, that it doesn't happen. I want to believe that at the end of this movie she walks away, Mac just like you were saying. But what kills me is that when you cue up the fly two, well, for me, it I didn't even have to try. It just kind of got suggested to me immediately after. It's revealed that the son of Seth Brundle is the main focus of the movie. So what kills me is knowing, and on top of status, this is the really worst part of the movie, you're kind of left in the suspension of did she or did she not eventually get her abortion? Did she or did she not eventually get to act on the decision that she had made? And you would like to think maybe she did, but you find out she didn't. And that fucking devastates me. And to know that and the stress of that kind of situation and to see the way she's bonded to Seth, it kills me. It reminds me very much of a friend I had who was in some similar circumstances with facing that exact decision, do I or do I not? And it allowed a moment for a very toxic and dangerous person to come back into her life, and the stress of that time bonded them together. And I saw that every moment I saw Stathis and Veronica together, and I'm like, fuck you, you literal piece of shit. You do not deserve her.

SPEAKER_01 57:19

Well, I knowing that there was a sequel and looking at the cast and not being interested in it, I I feel good that I was not interested in it because now I feel like it would actually make me feel really bad about the fly as a concept. So thank you for the spoiler. I'm gonna say that, so thank you, because I probably would have lived and like, I'll just I'll watch it one day, maybe.

SPEAKER_02 57:36

Listen, listeners, I know that I should have probably not spoiled that, but I think you deserved for it to have been spoiled. And it's also not a secret. I think it's like at the very beginning of the movie.

SPEAKER_01 57:46

It's the synopsis, probably, I'm sure that mentions it too.

SPEAKER_05 57:48

No, it's a synopsis. It's a synopsis because when I looked up Stathis and I saw like the unreleased endings that are in the DVD, like the special edition DVD of The Fly, it pulled up the fly too, and the synopsis outright, like the first sentence says that it is the main character is their son. So we're not necessarily spoiling. You could have literally Googled it and been distraught and sad about it. So you know what? Look, Chris Wallace, he directed that movie, and good for him because he won the Academy Award for this one. And like, I see what you were trying to do, sir. But you fumbled, and I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_01 58:24

Well, I'm gonna follow that up. I can't top that for the worst part. So I'll say that the whole Spider-Man three-level strut downtown to find somebody willing, and then snapping some dude's hand off of his arm in an arm wrestling contest, like that whole extra level of becoming status, that whole segment was so gross as well, that that I think is a good runner-up for the worst part.

SPEAKER_05 58:48

So we've talked a lot about good old status and bringing up how the fly two, what it's about. Again, no spoilers, because you could look it up, but I do want to bring up this ending that I was talking about, this epilogue that's uh basically an epilogue that's in the collector's edition of the DVD. Because I want to read it aloud to see what you guys think about it. So it says here that it was shot four different ways, this unused epilogue, right? And essentially, what it was, the ultimate epilogue that they ended up solidifying, but still not using, is Veronica seen in the bed with Stathis. So already alarms sounding off.

SPEAKER_02 59:26

That's enough for me, dog, already.

SPEAKER_05 59:27

We're already at strike one. Having married him. Strike two, what the fuck? Strike two. Sometime after Seth Brundle's death, she awakens from another nightmare in which she gives birth to Brundle's child, and Stathis reassures her that she is safe. That's red flag number three, because I don't want to believe a damn thing that this man says about reassuring of anything, but I go back to Flag Two where you married him, so there's that.

SPEAKER_02 59:53

League of their own, you're already out, Gina Davis.

SPEAKER_05 59:57

He says to her that the baby she is now carrying, having presumably aborted Brundles, is his four. Four strikes. You know what? Bullshit. Four strikes. Veronica then falls back asleep, and she then dreams of a beautiful human baby with butterfly wings hatching from a cocoon and flying off towards a distant light source. Like a fairy. Metamorphosis. Basically.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:21

Yeah, get the fuck out of here. Honestly, strike five for falling back asleep and feeling safe enough to fall back asleep with that predator in your bed.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:30

And some more ill. Now the other versions, right? Because there's they were shot four different ways, but that was the main one. The other ones are like the same thing, but Statha's saying that there is no baby. There's one where she wakes up alone in her bed, and in that version, she is clearly still pregnant with Brundle's baby, but she has that butterfly baby dream or whatever. And then the third one says the same thing, but she is not like having that dream, but then she's not pregnant. So we've got a combination of a lot of things going on there with those four different ways. Clearly, they just couldn't make up their mind and then just scrapped all of it and didn't even show us all any of it.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:08

For the better.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:09

But apparently, I'm reading here, it says that the epilogue did not fare well with the preview audience and ended up being cut from the film because no one wanted to see Ronnie end up with status.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:18

Good. The audience is glad that the people agreed. Yep. Well, put me in those focus groups, bro.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:25

Yeah, I mean, first of all, we don't need an we don't need an epilogue, right? I think the film without it is so much better.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:30

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:31

And apparently the audience agreed.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:32

So there you go. Look at that. You know what? Even for it being better, I think where I struggle is I really love this movie. I don't know that I can ever really watch it again though. Now, I say that because I need a long time of waiting before I can stomach it again. And then even if I do, I feel like I need to make sure that my mental health is in a way better place. Because I fear, quite genuinely, what kind of existential dread I could fall into if I compare this to the deterioration of aging while I'm deteriorating as I age. You know what I mean? Like it's a real slippery slope. I'm so glad that I watched this. This is like on my list now of my all-time favorite sci-fi horror films right beneath Jason X. Just kidding. Just kidding. But I don't know that I could do it again for a long time.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:22

That's fair. I mean, it's a lot. I've already seen it, look, I've already seen it twice this year. So it's not gonna happen again for the for this year. However, you have heavily piqued my interest in watching the original. I wasn't going to, I was gonna give it some more time, but that's probably gonna happen now. But once I do that, I'm gonna save this for like next October, like next spooky season, I'll be re-watching it for sure. I love this movie. I think it's so fun. And I will say, like, I've again I've had that gap of time in between earlier this year having rewatched it and like the most previous time, right? So it's been a bit, and I don't want to like oversaturate myself with too much like fly vomit and whatnot, and haughty Jeff Goldblum, but it's a good, like, sci-fi spooky season movie, in my opinion, to kind of have in the rotation every now and then.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:11

I've I've seen this movie before, and I'll see it again quite happily, I should say. I think a little bit of time and space does help. Like, I don't think I could watch the thing 15 times a year, even though the thing is also an absolute classic. I think they're just they're so extreme, they're so intense that like you need them to breathe before you can watch them again. So, like, this was like the perfect time to watch this for me because it's been a while. And so it's like, ah, it feels like the right time to see it. And if I were to do this again in a month, I would be taking it for granted. So, yeah, I'll watch it again after it breathes for a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:44

Okay, well, I'm really excited that you both can stand some rewatch. I think I've had one to serve me for a while, but for now, let's see what Mac has whipped up for factor fiction.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:55

All right, Binks, you ready? It's all you tonight.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:57

So I believe in myself.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:58

Pressure's on.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:59

Yeah, pressure's on. I can do it.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:00

Number one, the well-known line and tagline, be afraid, be very afraid, was created by Mel Brooks.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:06

Yes. Fact, yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:08

Yes, this is a fact. So Mel Brooks is a producer of the movie, right? And he coined the phrase when talking with Cronenberg about how characters should react to Brundle transforming, and of course, it made it into the film.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:18

You see, I knew that Mel Brooks was a producer. I just Mel Brooks was very talented and a smart individual in when it comes to film, so I was just confident that like I would hope that he would have came up with that idea.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:30

Could you go?

SPEAKER_05 1:04:31

Nice. Okay, look at me. I got this.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:33

Alright, number two. Cronenberg was attached to the film from the very beginning, fending off five other directors who ferociously fought to direct the film.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:40

Okay. I'm gonna say fiction. I'm gonna say fiction? I feel like Cronen, like, they really wanted to go. Well, damn. Bianca, think of his other films before this. Okay, no, no, never mind. I'm gonna go with fact. I'm gonna go with fact.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:53

You had it right though. It was it is a fiction.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:55

God no!

SPEAKER_01 1:04:56

He was the first desired, but he was busy making total recall. Robert Bierman was actually brought on instead. Then Bierman unfortunately had a family tragedy that took him away from the film, and Cronenberg's time in Total Recall also ended unexpectedly. The rest they say is history.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:12

This is why I have to go with my guide.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:16

That's right. Alright, go with your guy number three. The president of 20th Century Fox called casting Jeff Goldblum, an absolutely horrible mistake.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:24

That is a fact. That's a fact.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:26

Oh, can you tell us more? Do you know more?

SPEAKER_05 1:05:28

I think I I think yes, because I think I remember that they had other people in mind. Like, other people were like kind of like auditioning and really wanting this role. And it was like a few people until they just like, fine, we're gonna we're gonna do Jeff Goldblum. And then okay, I'm getting ahead of myself. Okay, no, no, I'm gonna leave it there. Because what if I'm wrong, and then I'm gonna sound like an absolute clown.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:51

So, no, this one is a fact, right? So, so part of this is right, the makeup team was like, to do what we need to do, we need something. Somebody who has like somebody with very small ears, somebody who doesn't have a large nose bridge, right? But they're like, no, no, we need Jeff Goldblum. And they're like, okay, we'll make it work. The guy's amazing, right? But yes, the president of 20th Century Fox called casting him an absolutely horrible mistake, but he was like, you know what? That's this is for you. This is your own choice. You're allowed to make. I'll green light it. That's fine. But I do wonder when he realized that he was absolutely horribly wrong.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:26

Yeah, I mean, extremely wrong. And the reason that I I think I read this because the reason I know this is because I think I read that like the other people, there was like one actor in particular, God, he's famous, and I can't think of the name now. But there was another person that was wanting this role, and he did not want to be altered. Like, he didn't want like a ton of special effects and stuff on him. He wanted to still kind of look like himself, apparently. And Jeff Goldblum was like, take me there, make me a fly.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:54

Life uh finds a way. Alright, and then finally, number four, Vincent Price, who we know was in the original 1958 film, slammed this remake for going too far.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:06

Ooh. Cronenberg does take it far, and people you love him or you hate him, so I'm gonna say fact.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:11

Alright, this one's a fiction. So Golblum actually wrote him after the release of the movie, stating, I hope you like it as much as I like yours. So he wrote him back and he went to go watch it. But he did describe it as wonderful right up to a certain point, it went a little too far. He didn't hate it, he didn't slam it.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:28

Okay, but he didn't hate it.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:30

Right.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:30

Oh, that's sweet.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:31

That's sweet.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:32

And that's been factor fiction.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:34

Well, there you have it, folks. Albeit disgusting, the fly has earned a universal slash, which must make our Superfly Space Guy well happy. I guess Superfly Space Guy a whole new meaning, doesn't it, Mac?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:46

Oh boy. Oh, that's perfect.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:47

Now we've certainly had a robust discussion here, but it doesn't end here by any means.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:51

We want to know what you think. Would you cuddle up with Brundlefly? Let us know. You can join in on the conversation by hanging out with us for free in our Discord. Click the link in our show notes to sign up.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:01

If you've enjoyed listening to this episode, consider joining our New Blood Drive and becoming a member of the family. Visit patreon.com slash hackerslash to enjoy more of the show with early access, extended episodes, bonus content, and live shows. Drink deep or taste not the plasma spring.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:31

Holy shit. I can't believe we are 10 episodes away from our 300th episode. How does that feel? Fucking insane to me.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:41

This is the longest commitment of my lifetime. I've been doing this show longer than I was in the Navy.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:46

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:46

That's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:47

That's kind of mind-blowing.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:48

I know. It's wild. I've been doing this show longer than my longest relationship, and I've been doing this show longer than I've been with my current employer, which has been my longest employer. That's wild.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:00

Yeah, but I'm still like, and even the Navy, that's kind of crazy now that I put that into perspective. Now that I'm thinking about it.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:06

It's so fucking weird. Ten episodes away.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:09

And also like 300 episodes consistently.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:13

That's dedication.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:14

Without missing a week. Without missing a week. Since we switched to weekly. We were bi-weekly when we first started. And then we did take like a three-month hiatus in the very, very beginning. But like fuck it, since then, since like episode like eight, nine, ten, whatever, we've been doing it every week.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:28

That's wild because my first episode was episode 52.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:31

Fucking crazy, dude.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:32

But I haven't been obviously on every single one, right? Like I've you know, I've I've taken my breaks obviously here and there. You have not.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:38

No, no breaks.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:39

So it's kind of wild to imagine 250 episodes that you've done and that I've been on some of them, or most of them, let's say, uh, since since the first episode, which to me seems like just you know, just like two years ago in my mind. That's what it feels like.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:55

Yeah, it feels like it was like a fucking weird time loop.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:57

It's so interesting that you say that because I was working on something for the letterboxed account and was kind of like logging, you know, the movies that we've done in our earlier days, and I noticed, yeah, that your movie was like early, like early in there. Yeah. Like your first episode was like really early, Ryan's obviously as well, and Alexis, like so intra Paris as well. Like all of you guys have been in it for a bit. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:23

It doesn't make sense to me though, because to me, I'm still a late edition in my mind, you know? Because like I got the start by listening to the podcast while driving.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:33

It's so fucking weird.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:34

And sharing my thoughts with Chris about why Alexis was wrong. You know, that's uh goodness. It it's specifically when I finally shared my thoughts.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:45

I forget how actually I don't know if Chris, if you told me about the podcast and so I started listening, or somebody else told me about it, but somebody else must have started told you about it because I definitely you probably knew about it from me, but I never like encouraged you to listen. I was like not 100% quite sold on being proud of it early on.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:00

Yeah. So I pet cemetery is the one where I listened and was like, I'm gonna talk to Chris when I get when I get back because they're wrong. Everyone else is wrong except for Chris on Pet Cemetery.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:10

Which which Pet Cemetery? Like the original or the 2019?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:14

No, the 2019.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:15

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:16

Yeah, except he didn't even wait until he got back because he texted me while he was en route to Georgia.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:21

Yeah, I think you know, because there's just like a a point in North Carolina where I always stop, you know? So it's probably like I I gotta fire one off.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:29

I'm pulling over. It needs to be addressed right away.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:31

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:32

Oh, that's incredible. But you know what? You you feel like just such a part of the show, man. Like I I don't even remember, obviously. I mean, I do remember, I remember a time before Mac and a time before Alexis and a time before Ryan. Sure. But I don't acknowledge that as being the real deal, I think.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:50

Interesting.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:51

You know what I mean? Because it was so distant, it was and things have changed so much. It it just feels like such a faint memory.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:58

I would imagine, like, even think about it, where it's nearing six years at this point, like who you guys were as people. I mean, I was a different person even just a year ago. So I can't even imagine six years ago, you know?

SPEAKER_01 1:12:10

Yeah, I mean, when I when I think back now, because in my mind still, it's been only like two years and it's been four years. That's wild. That's absolutely wild.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:18

That's someone's like entire college education.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:21

God, anything like four years, nuts. Well, that's the wild thing. That's why when we talk about like when Zach joined the staff, he reached out and shared that he started listening to us when he was a freshman in college, and we got him through his college education. It is insane to me. But man, even like thinking about where life was for me in 2017 when this show started. Okay, I had this memory actually a couple months ago in our Discord server. Movie Pass was a thing. My first ticket ever, my first movie ticket ever. And the reason why I found it like, okay, maybe this is a good time to do this was because I bought my it chapter one ticket with movie pass, which is interesting because movie pass is now making a comeback.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:04

I probably died out again, but like think of how much time has passed that it that's when it was a thing, and it has now made a comeback.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:11

Yeah, yeah. Wow. Man, we really live and die by the times, huh?

SPEAKER_05 1:13:16

That's nuts. Well, and you know what? Uh time is also flying so quickly, even for Sean and I. It's about to we're nearing in just a month or two, I think, more or less. It'll be a year since we joined. Yeah. Which is also kind of crazy.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:29

Oh my gosh, yeah. I know that Sean joined well, the movie came out that Sean did for his very first episode at the end of September last year. So right around now is when that movie came out. And then I think a couple we're a couple weeks away from when he actually started recording. But yeah, this time last year I hadn't even met you yet, Binks. Mm-mm.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:49

Nope. Wow. I think this time, this time last year I was oh, I was still going to trivia for sure. Yeah, I was going, but I was really just like starting to make it a routine, actually. Very fun. Wow, very interesting.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:01

An extra special and extra weird feeling is looking at the episode synopsis for my first episode where it says this week the hacker slash team welcomes Mac, a special guest, to help review the 2019 Summer Creature Feature crawl. And it's so it's so weird. It's so Binx. Have you looked at your first episode and like reread the episode notes or the synopsis?

SPEAKER_05 1:14:22

No, but I really should. Granted, good old Terrifier, how fun.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:27

Yeah, so Terrifier was a rewind, but then Terrifier 2 was the public episode. I wonder if I called you out as a special guest. I can't remember if we still started doing that. I don't know. I don't know. Hmm, my style guide is a little off. I'm not consistent anymore. But also, what a fucking way to start the show. True.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:45

Let me see here. My gosh, that's oh, how cute. I will say, my opening quote apparently was, ew, why is mine so sticky? Which honestly, that tracks. That tracks, considering what my opening quotes tend to be, which is quite sweet.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:01

So Terrifier 2, we didn't we didn't specify you in the notes, but we did mention the essence that is you. So we said this week we welcome a new team member as we check out Terrifier 2 2022.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:12

Oh, you know why it is? I think because we did the rewind first, and then I was like, yo, so you want to stick around or what? Yeah. It was kind of like a seal the deal beforehand.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:21

Yeah, I remember we did I think it was like literally one day to the next, back-to-back recording.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:26

Really, just a lot of things happening in that like 12 hours. For real, honestly.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:30

Instantly I was like, Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:32

Which so grateful. I think you and Sean have been such great additions to the team. And man, I think even think about last year this time, Mac. Do you remember how absolutely stressed out I was with like, what the fuck are we gonna do? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:47

I do, I do remember, and now look at us, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:50

Look, look, Ma, no hands.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:53

Oh, it's so fucking good. I feel great. But let me tell you, I have this confession that I can't believe it's taken 300 episodes to get to the fly.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:01

I was just as shocked, honestly, when we were talking about, you know, what the you know, spooky season was gonna look like, what movies we were gonna do. And the fact that the fly hadn't been done with me being the crony baddie that I am. And also, I gotta say, to your point earlier, Mac, your first episode being, you know, a creature feature thing, and look at us, you know, somewhat, kinda.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:26

It well, it's kind of funny because I never realized that we never did the fly. Like it just never computed in my brain that we forgot something, you know?

SPEAKER_05 1:16:34

Yeah, I think it's one of those things where you just assume, yeah, of course we've done it, and then you realize that we haven't, and then you're like, oh shit.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:41

You would think that about a lot of things, but as it turns out, 290 episodes later, there's still a lot of shit we haven't done.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:47

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:50

It's funny because, like, first of all, crony baddie sounds like you have Crohn's disease, um, and and you're like owning it, you know. Uh so that's kind of an interesting phrase. Live your truth, right? That's what the crone the cronies I I bet you if you Google it, it's probably somebody uses that in that way. But but it it is kind of funny that we I mean, have we actually done any or many David Cronenberg films?

SPEAKER_05 1:17:12

This is the first. This is the first one. That's what that's what shocked me the most. You know how I know? Because I made I made a comment.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:19

No.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:20

And I was and I had this exact face where I was shocked and stunned and appalled.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:24

No. And then I know I mentioned this obviously in the in the actual episode, but I'd never seen a David Cronenberg film.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:31

You withheld that information from me.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:33

Yeah, sorry.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:34

It's it's it's interesting. You know, I have seen David Cronenberg films for a long time and enjoyed them without realizing they were David Cronenberg films. Uh, I watched, literally watched David Cronenberg on Star Trek, um, and for some reason didn't compute that that was his face. So it's like David Cronenberg, unfortunately, we've just taken him for granted, I think.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:56

Yeah, I mean I've seen another Cronenberg film before seeing David Cronenberg because I watched Infinity Pool in August with our Discord community.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:03

Right. But I just want to say again, as a Crony baddie, I'm proud of myself for not only like dabbling in a little bit of Cronenberg, both father and son, for this uh spooky season, because I, like I mentioned in the episode, uh name name the Cronenberg movie. I've probably seen it. I'm still working through a couple that are kind of really hard to find, though, that I don't remember. Like Crash, I did not see growing up, and I probably should have never seen it growing up, but I'm still wanting to find it so I can see it. I know plenty about it. There's so many good ones, guys. So many good ones.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:34

Well, it's funny because you know, this is obviously a great example of body, body horror.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:39

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:39

Um, and like things start to line up when I think about a history of violence, because there's a scene at the end, or probably a couple, but there's a really brutal scene in history of violence that seems so excessively brutal and violent and damaging to somebody's face, and it's like, well, of course, of course it is, because that dude knows what to do, you know. When we're talking about bodies doing gross things, he's he's well schooled in it.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:04

Yep, you can count on him. I saw that in theaters with my mother. No business saying that in theaters with my mother at that age that I can think of. Actually, no one's nominated a Cronenberg film as a patron pick yet either.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:18

Maybe that's there's a reason for that. Oh, I'm hurt. Maybe we just can't stomach it.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:22

Out of all the body horror that's out there, he is definitely I mean, he's well schooled. He knows what to do with it, but at the same time, like it's tolerable. You know, he's not to such a level that you that most people couldn't deal with it. Well, I maybe oh let's rewind for a second. That depends on the film. I'd say for most of his films. For most of his films.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:43

Yeah. I was gonna say, for most of the films for sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:46

I have not seen Crimes of the Future though. And I don't know that I will, so I can't speak on that one.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:51

Oh, but you should.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:53

We'll we'll see. It's it's on the list for very far away from today.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:56

Would you say it's a crime of the future? Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:58

You could, you could one one could say that.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:01

Fantastic. I think in the spirit of this movie, though, something that I'm curious about, is there a creature or an animal that you wouldn't mind getting mutated with? Like if he had to go, you know, if something had to sneak in this telepod with you.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:13

Yeah, you know, I think you could you could go a couple different ways. You could go, obviously, another mammal, and uh that's almost that's almost like an easy pick, right? Because who wouldn't want to be combined with like, I don't know, a bear or or something cute and cuddly, maybe, but I'm gonna stick to the theme of the movie and I'm gonna go praying mantis.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:30

Why?

SPEAKER_01 1:20:31

Why? Why would you not want to have the strength and agility and ninja skills of a praying mantis? Now, caveat there is obviously if it goes the way the film goes, it's a one and done kind of situation. I don't have to worry about like, you know, lifelong worries as a praying mantis, but if I did, if you had to worry about mating or anything, not down, not down for it. But, you know, just to have like, I don't know, I feel like razor-sharp jaws, you know, that'd be pretty cool. Being able to like snap the neck of anything you wanted to, that's pretty that's pretty epic.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:03

You know what? That Catholic in you is so strong you still want to pray in science fiction.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:07

That's great. Oh boy.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:09

I'm just thinking of like what you would look like. Because here's the thing. This movie has taught me anything. It's that if you were to like be merged or like have some weird metamorphosis moment with an animal of some of any kind or an insect of any kind, like it's you're just not gonna look cute, you know? Potentially. And I think I just gotta like accept that. So I'm trying to find an animal that if I were to morph into it, which one would I most likely still look cute while being merged with it?

SPEAKER_02 1:21:39

Ooh, okay. So, first off, Mac, when I imagine you is that I'm thinking not of this movie's transformation, but the original movie's transformation, which seems a lot more tolerable. So now I'm imagining you with a praying mantis head and a left arm of a praying mantis. Binks, I'm sure you could pull something off. Something, I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:58

Well, the animal I'm thinking of is an owl. Really? Because I love owls. Yeah, I love owls, my favorite animal. And I feel like, you know, sprouting feathers out of my back. You know, I I've seen Black Swan, she's still slayed while that was going on.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:11

So I still need to see that movie. Oh, get it together. Come on. Actually, Banks, there is a killer in Dead by Daylight. I need to show you. Because I think when you just said owl, this is what this reminded me of. Paris famously refers to her as the bird bitch because her like power has to deal with like crows and ravens and shit. So she was an artist, and now her arms are kind of inky but also kind of feathery at the same time. Inky and feathery. Oh, she's cool. Yeah, I know it just sounds weird, but some of her skins are very bird-like.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:44

Interesting.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:45

Okay, listen, I didn't think very hard about this. I just thought what animal's fucking cute, and I'd still go raccoon because they also are cute with opposable thumbs.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:53

Oh, like Rakakoonie.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:55

From Everything Everywhere All at Once. Oh no, I haven't seen that. What is going on?

SPEAKER_02 1:22:59

I can't handle feelings right now, Binx.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:01

I haven't either, though.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:02

What is happening? This movie came out last year.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:04

It's one of those movies you have to save, you know? It's like you have to wait because you for how long? You know you're gonna cherish it. So you're like, let me wait. Let me hold on to that.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:12

No, no, you've held on for over a year. So it like well over a year. Listen, I held on to hereditary this long. No, that's a different story. That's a different story altogether. And and honestly, like, even more reason why you should watch everything everywhere all at once. You're already gonna, you know, dive into the pool of that, so of hereditary.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:32

We'll see. Maybe for Jamie Lee Curtis's birthday.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:35

Combining with a raccoon, though, just makes you think uh Guardians of the Galaxy.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:38

Oh, I don't know. Oh my heart. I think of this show. Oh my gosh, what is this show? It's animated, it's on Hulu, and then it's like a bunch of neighborhood pets come together for therapy sessions because one of the dogs belongs to a therapist. Yes. And then there's also a raccoon who joins their club, and that raccoon is cute as fuck. What show is this?

SPEAKER_01 1:23:57

It's gotta be Bojack Horseman, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:23:59

No, no, no, no, it's not uh animated show dog, Lisa Coudreau therapy. Housebroken.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:06

Housebroken.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:07

Never heard of it. Yeah. It's really fucking cute. Hold on a second. Housebroken show raccoon. Raccoon. He's kind of w wild looking, but uh here we go. He like winks and points at the same time, which is a thing that I used to do when I was really nervous to like exude charm. And sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't, so he reminds me of me.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:29

That's an adorable raccoon.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:31

I know. I could pull I could pull off raccoon merge, I think. I already had the bags under my eyes.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:36

I do I do worry. Like merging with a mammal might let just I feel like you'd look like a furry.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:41

That's a potential.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:42

Yeah. That's like the only possible downside is you look like you work at a Chuck E. Cheese, you know?

SPEAKER_02 1:24:47

Well, I should also point out that I used to do the animal mascot things. So it's not my first time wearing a suit.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:53

That's true. Oh man. Purely for professional reasons. I I do wonder though, if you did merge with a raccoon, would you end up eating trash?

SPEAKER_02 1:25:01

I don't think so. My stomach would be still my stomach. I'm thinking about the extent that, like, again, in my head, the logic has only gone as far as the 1958 The Fly, which is a head that's like impeding the brain and then the left arm.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:14

Yeah, not full raccoon. Never go full raccoon.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:17

No, no, no. No, no, no, no, no. Only like tw quarter raccoon at most. Do you get to decide that?

SPEAKER_01 1:25:22

I mean, uh, again, I'm just following the movie's example. Yeah, we're we're we're thinking of a of a more classic time, you know, 58 where things weren't as weren't as extreme.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:32

Yes, our imaginations just were quite stunned.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:34

We didn't have the special effects to literally watch somebody's, you know, face unwrap.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:39

Jesus Christ, I can't fucking handle this. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack, a total joke, a waste of time, or a slash.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:51

Totally killer. Pun intended.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:53

It works because she thinks this is a total joke. But not a waste of time. No, yeah, yeah, yeah. But for sure a total joke. Shout out to Jeff Goldblum, who famously played Rachel Barry's father in Glee.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:05

Is that is that how we're shouting him out for Glee?

SPEAKER_02 1:26:07

No, absolutely not. He's done so much great work, and I absolutely love that man to death. But you would expect with all the cameos they fucking had for so from from celebrities in that series, that it would just be wacky. But he was delightful every time he was on screen. Hey, can I also say, you know what?

SPEAKER_05 1:26:23

I rolled my eyes, but I have to give you some credit. You haven't mentioned Glee in the last couple episodes, so I'm proud of you. Jesus Christ.

unknown 1:26:30

What?

SPEAKER_05 1:26:30

I was trying to be I was trying to give you a word of affirmation. Thank you. I'm just saying, words of affirmation is my love language. There you go. Look, I'm being nice.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:37

I still think of Goldblum with his piece on Conan. He says, uh, he was talking, he said, people always ask me how I pronounce my name, Goldblum or Goldblum. I always tell them the same thing. How dare you speak to me? And just a frickin' force of wit. That man.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:53

I absolutely love that.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:56

Not one of my favorite episodes, but it's a good episode. It's from Star Trek Voyager season two, episode 24. It's called Tuvics, and it's a very similar kind of setup where you know they used to transport us in Star Trek, right? And so they transport two people and they combine them into one person. And then, you know, they gotta figure out if they can split them up. And is that moral to do so?

SPEAKER_02 1:27:14

Hold on, hold on. So Mac can now be out here citing specific episodes of Star Treky. He gets nothing. He gets an ooh, but I bring up Glee one time. I bring up Glee one time.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:25

Well, you know what it is? It's because you mentioned shouting out Jeff Goldblum in terms of glee. That's what it that's what it was. That's what it was. It's it's relating the two.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:37

They definitely got divorced later on. But whatever, we forget that part.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:40

Remove that part. Tragic. That's as that makes me feel as bad as I feel knowing that Johnny Depp and Ronald Ryder stopped dating. I think about that all the time. The one that got away.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:53

Think about it. Flies probably like procreate often, right? Or like, you know. Like mini flies everywhere, or like I mean they have to if they're gonna make use of their one-month lifespan. So exactly. So is it really the man or is it the fly?

SPEAKER_02 1:28:09

I think it's the flies atoms stripping down the man's intelligence and critical thinking and reducing him down to more primal level. Hey, sure, you weren't the horny one?

SPEAKER_05 1:28:22

No, I promise I wasn't. Well, it's Jeff Goldblum.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:25

You know what?

SPEAKER_01 1:28:26

So the 1986 movie The Fly or the 1993 movie Jurassic Park, which one is a hotter Goldblum?

SPEAKER_04 1:28:33

Oh my god, what a question. You know, or is it apartments.com.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:40

Yeah, so Zaddy Goldblum might probably take the cake, I think.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:43

God, that's such a tough one. No, I'm gonna go with I'm gonna go with the fly.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:48

Miss me on that long hair. I'll see your horniness being the surprise, and I'll raise you the lingering of things.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:58

I think they're able the depth, like you said, the depth is what's it is what they're using to make it its own thing that you cannot say is another thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:07

100 fucking percent. And then I'm I'm sorry, the visuals that we get in this movie, absurd. They ain't got none of that in 1958. Oh, of course. Not a single fucking one. Not a single fucking one.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:17

No, I could imagine, I could imagine. Man, side note completely. But forgive me. You say the thing, and I still Yeah, so it's a part of obviously my top 100, and I can't seem to frickin' watch it because of the first like 10 minutes has that husky, and Cullen just won't stop barking at the frickin' screen. And I'm I'm one of these days I'm gonna finally rewatch that movie. It's been ages. I don't even think I've actually forgive me, I don't think I've actually seen the thing like from start to finish ever, like in my life. I think I've seen it like in clips and stuff like that, because I remember some parts, but I'm trying to rewash it, and you've mentioned it now, and I'm like, god damn it, this movie follows me. Guess we're doing a rewind in the winter. It just follows me everywhere, and I can't seem to finish it because of my freaking dog.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:03

Yeah, your dog needs to get a babysitter.

SPEAKER_05 1:30:07

Things get nasty, my friends, and PETA is not a fan of a baboon exploding. So there's that.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:14

Spoilers.

SPEAKER_05 1:30:16

Things get nasty, my friends, and PETA is not a fan of certain things exploding.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:21

Uh, like eating four pounds of Daco Bell, huh, Mac?

SPEAKER_01 1:30:26

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:28

You understand.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:30

Yes, one one human one human kill. That's where it was.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:33

One human alcohol, please. That's what we do in the shadows joke. I'll watch it, okay? I'll watch it.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:39

Good.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:41

And and Binx, I mentioned this earlier. You chose this as the image for this movie in our Notion database. So respect to you because I love you and I appreciate you for doing it. But holy fuck, it's haunted me every day. I can't wait for this episode to be done being published, so I can just get it off my notion.

SPEAKER_05 1:30:58

I have to be uh real honest with you though. I didn't even think about it. Like I just I I I put it there and it's just hitting me now that you've yeah, you've had to like stare at that.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:09

Every single day. Every single day for months. And that is the part of the movie that made me almost throw up. Oh, yeah. Every single time I open the Notion database, I just scroll down just enough to hide past it.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:21

I'm surprised you didn't change it.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:23

I would never. I appreciate Minx's work too much, and I know how to deal with the consequences of my actions. I didn't do it, and she did, so I'm not gonna change it.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:32

It's okay. We're even. I watched Insidious, now you had to stare at the Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:37

Yeah, really, one day of watching this is really worth an entire fucking like quarter of months, a quarter of the year, believe.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:45

Yeah, it's been up there for a while. I'm so sorry. It's okay. I love you. Kind of makes you want to go celibate because I'm just like it.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:55

Wow, that must be so difficult for you.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:58

Well, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:00

There are other solutions. Never. Okay. God damn. I wasn't thinking to the extreme that you were thinking, but the free sides are gonna be littered with aftermarket. Oh my god, no, this is public.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:23

But holy fuck. Holy fuck. And then they fuck. So goddammit. Sorry.