303: Ginger Snaps (2000)

SPEAKER_01 0:04

How was the first time that you got your period, Sean?

SPEAKER_03 0:12

Greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hack or Slash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. Don't we need new protection? If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack.

SPEAKER_00 0:25

A total joke. A waste of time.

SPEAKER_03 0:27

Or a splash. Totally killer. Unintended. We believe horror is for everyone and ask us for rating these movies with a perspective we've gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris. I'm your friendly neighborhood splash enthusiast. This week I'm joined by the classic horror connoisseur Sean.

SPEAKER_00 0:44

Your standard cumbuckety date baby.

SPEAKER_03 0:50

Now you're hairy. The people have spoken and our patrons have decided we're covering a cult classic film that invites us to question the very nature of change and the bonds of sisterhood. Before we get down to business, though, we have some follow up.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

So tonight we are following up on a movie that I think a lot of people were hyped for, Five Nights at Freddy's. And the results are in on this film, and it is pretty closely split down the middle. Forty-eight percent gave it a hack and fifty-two percent gave it a slash.

SPEAKER_03 1:24

I'm actually pretty surprised by that. I mean most people I have met in person have actually really enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_00 1:30

That's true. I most people I've talked to have enjoyed it as well. So that is, I guess, kind of surprising, but you know, if you're like me, and I would like to imagine that there are some people like me out there, uh, you know, wasn't my thing, and maybe it wasn't their thing either. But we've got some we've got some comments on the social medias of it all. And we've got some comments here. The girlies who played the games get it.

SPEAKER_03 1:55

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 1:56

The girls that get it get it, and the girls that don't, they don't. Bobby knew about the video game, so he was kind of stoked to watch it, and then he was like, Oh, okay. Oh I'll play the video game.

SPEAKER_03 2:10

Man, alright. Well, my nephews love this movie, so I'm gonna just hold it out there.

SPEAKER_00 2:16

Yeah, I mean, I kind of feel like maybe if you played the game, like and you really love the game, you probably were more into the movie. I don't know, we'll see. Uh, but Strange and Unusual said Matt Lillard and Ghost Kitties did it for me, lost some points for the PG 13 nonsense, which I I wholeheartedly agree with. It was way too PG for me.

SPEAKER_01 2:38

Sean wants to see the death of the kids. I do fuck them kids and the kidnapping.

SPEAKER_00 2:43

I'm here for it. Yeah, I'm here for it. Gabe HTML said, I love this movie more than anticipated. I was in high school when this came out. The movie felt faithful to the game. I wish we got to see the gang be more frightening, stalking, running across the cameras, having to keep them from getting in the room. I wanted to see them being scary, but I understand they wanted the PG 13 rating so it all toned down. But I do wish there was a rated R version. I want more from it. It's a soft, soft, soft slash because something keeps me coming back to it.

SPEAKER_03 3:18

And that thing that keeps you coming back to it, Gabe, is called unconditional love of intellectual property. This is your version of my Halloween 5, The Revenge of Michael Myers.

SPEAKER_00 3:28

Absolutely. Yippie Z Mau says, I think you need to know some of the lore to really understand this movie. Love letter for the fans. And that see, that's what I'm talking about. So, like if you really enjoyed the game, I could see that, but it's not a love letter to me. So I'm sad.

SPEAKER_01 3:46

You know who doesn't love you? Yepes Mao.

SPEAKER_00 3:49

Yep's Mao. Is that how you say that?

SPEAKER_01 3:52

I don't know, but I don't see Yippie there. I see Yippy.

SPEAKER_00 3:56

I hey listen, I famously mispronounce every word. So it's great. It's great.

SPEAKER_01 4:01

That was great. It's okay. That's why the Latina's here to tell you that's actually one of my last names, Yepes. Now you know.

SPEAKER_00 4:08

Thank you. Thank you so much for correcting me. Moving on from this terrible time. Lola, as a Five Nights at Freddy's fan, I did like it, but I would have appreciated it more if it dove more into the lore. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 4:22

Agreed. Yeah, that's something that I can respect. You know, and even thinking back to Gabe's comment, if it had tied closer into I think the mechanics of the game, it could have made it a lot more spooky. But hey, ignorance is bliss, because I don't know shit about the game, so it was pretty okay to me.

SPEAKER_00 4:39

Well, there you go. But hey, shout out to the new patrons Ruth, John, Kyle, Jason, Jake, Martin. Woo, that's a lot. Thank you all for joining us. Uh, it's a pleasure to have you.

SPEAKER_03 4:51

Yay, patrons. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 4:53

And that's our follow-up.

SPEAKER_03 4:55

Well, welcome to the family indeed. And hey, you are now among the chosen few who can nominate a movie and also vote on forcing its way into our lineup. And this week we have one of those movies because we're checking out an early 2000s film that takes the trials and tribulations of suburban teenage life to a whole new level. The film drops us in the midst of adolescent angst where we meet a pair of sisters, bonded not by a love for the mundane, but by a macabre fascination with the finality of death. When an encounter with a beast tears through the fabric of their reality, though. The line between myth and mortality blurs, sending ripples through their existence and beyond the picket fences of their neighborhood. Beneath the surface of what might seem like another tale of creatures and curses, lies a deeper narrative. One that explores the bonds of family and the chaotic dance of growing up different in a world that prizes conformity above all else. So grab your silver bullets in your teenage diaries, folks, because we're diving into the shadows of early millennium horror, where the monstrous and the mundane collide. And this week, after winning 57% of the overall patron vote, we're talking about Ginger Snaps.

SPEAKER_01 6:00

This movie was nominated by Amber, who says Ginger Snap is one of my top ten of horror comfort movies. My cousin and I used to watch it and be obsessed with this movie. And now that we live in different states, we still make it a point every spooky season to FaceTime and watch it together. Nostalgia aside, this movie is easily one of the best horror films of the early 2000s. It has a good bit of gore and my favorite werewolf transition in any werewolf movie. I know that's a bold statement, but I stand by it. You should, Amber. While werewolf movies may not be everyone's cup of tea, it does have some amazing horror moments. A great performance from Catherine Isabel, who is, in my opinion, one of the best Scream Queens of 2000s.

SPEAKER_03 6:45

Well, we'll see if by the end of this we agree with you, Amber.

SPEAKER_01 6:47

But who's seen this one before? I can go first because I have never seen this movie, which is pretty wild. I did not know it existed. When we first said that we were reviewing Ginger Snap, I was like, okay, this is gonna be a freaking gingerbread movie, some killer cookie. The title definitely threw me off. I was not expecting what I got into, but I was not correct. There is no killing cookies. This was actually a very nice surprise.

SPEAKER_03 7:17

Ironically, the killer cookie movie, when you Google that, takes you straight to one of the movies that we're doing later this year, which is The Ginger Dead Man.

SPEAKER_00 7:25

Can't wait. Can't wait. Yeah, so this is one of those movies that I watched a long time ago and never got around to watching again until just about a month ago. And I've already told you both. Like that the funny thing is, is I was watching this with my wife, and she said, Aren't you gonna take notes? And I'm like, nah, we're not reviewing this movie, but here we are. So damn, joke's on me, I guess.

SPEAKER_03 7:47

Yeah, you played yourself, kid.

SPEAKER_00 7:49

I did, but I do enjoy me a good werewolf flick.

SPEAKER_01 7:53

All about it. The first thing I saw was the date. So I was like, 2000. This is such a beautiful time in history for movies, I think. So my expectations going into the movie, I was like, okay. I might like this more than I think that I'm gonna like this, but I was into the idea of watching this movie.

SPEAKER_03 8:14

Yeah, I've seen this one before, Vero, which is why it shocks me that you haven't, especially with this being during what I think is like prime Vero reign. Like you're what were you already a manager at Hot Topic when this movie came out?

SPEAKER_01 8:28

I graduated high school in 2002, so yeah, I pretty much was.

SPEAKER_03 8:32

Yeah, exactly. You're already doing some wild ass shit at Hot Topic, and I feel like this just reeks of something that you should have seen when it came out. And I've seen this movie a couple times, but most recently I saw it about a year ago when I was getting the second session of my horror sleeve done. The shop was playing a bunch of movies, but this and American Mary made a hell of a fucking double feature that was wild. Now, going into this one, I think having seen this now for like what, maybe the third, fourth, fifth time, this one has always been entertaining, but for some reason this time around, it felt more sad than I ever remember feeling watching it. I think maybe it's just because I'm getting older and more sentimental, but how are y'all feeling?

SPEAKER_00 9:15

Hmm. Sad, I don't know. This film had me feeling uh engaged, I'll say that, in almost everything that was happening throughout the entire runtime, which is hard to do, honestly. I think the it maybe the feeling of unpredictability of the story or the narrative, because you never really know where the film is going, and you're invested in finding out is the best way I can describe it. It's really just like good storytelling, I suppose.

SPEAKER_01 9:40

Yeah, I think uh Spooky Bitch said it the best. I wish I would have seen this in the 2000s when it came out. I think I probably would have been, you know, super into it, love it, watch it every year, close to the craft. I think it gave me that sisterhood kind of feeling, which I was like fully bought into. And then I think that while watching it throughout the entire thing, there was a lot of nice. I was like, nice, and I like that. So I was like kind of like cheering on to the movie, which I haven't done in a really long time. I also fully watch the movie without doing anything else, which my ADHD mine at or all in all never does. So I actually watch the movie beginning to end.

SPEAKER_03 10:26

I love this for you. Let me break down the sad bit of this, right? Because it's not to say that this movie is not entertaining and that it's not engaging. I think it's just that there's a lot that hits you in this movie with a lot of notes of like a really, really dark comedy. I think there is a bit of camp in here that is pretty great. There's also just this angle of morbid fun. And once you get past that, once you get past the werewolves of it all, once you get past the dynamics of the sisters, I started noticing the mom a lot more in this movie. And that's where I think it kind of starts hitting me. This is something where, you know, you take it at the say at the face value of what this movie is an allegory for, and you walk away from it with that experience, right? But this is something that I think the more you watch it, the more you take away from it, which I also found really surprising here. I was also really surprised by how inoffensive I found it aesthetically, considering that I fucking hate most early 2000s movies.

SPEAKER_00 11:27

Okay, yeah, because I was gonna say, like going into this, not remembering much of this movie from however many years ago I watched it, knowing that it's a 2000, 2000 movie, right? Like the start of the 2000s, I was totally expecting some shitty hue to cover this whole entire film.

SPEAKER_01 11:47

Yeah. I guess the craft was 96, right? So it wasn't likely 2000s, but I definitely felt that it got me more excited than something that I would have seen if it was like a you know mid-2000s. I probably would have been like, oh, there's a reason why I didn't watch it. I think for me, it made me feel like, oh shit, you missed one. Like, watch this movie, you dum-dum. So I think um it was definitely a good surprise for me.

SPEAKER_00 12:17

I think what surprised me the most about this film, aside from how good the storytelling is, was how relatable the undertones of this film feel. And obviously not the werewolf parts, but this film is essentially like a coming-of-age teenage film, right? And it explores those tropes and does it almost perfectly. I as obviously not a teenage girl in high school, but I do remember my high school days well, and especially with this film taking place in and around 1999, it is very close to when I was in high school, and so it feels very similar in that regard.

SPEAKER_01 12:50

So I went in expecting this to be a cookie that kills people. So I went in expecting nothing. So for me, it definitely kind of surprised me that I was engaged. I liked, I think the story was awesome. I love a good little bit of camp. I like like the fuck you dudes vibe. I think that that's something that I definitely go into. I thought it was fucking hilarious to think of girls being such badasses. Being into this movie, it kind of gave you that little bit of like, yeah, I'm female. Fuck you dudes. I get to do what I want. I love my sister. This is awesome. So there was no disappointments for me. The only disappointment is not seeing it sooner. But nothing really surprised me. Everything fell where it was supposed to throughout the entire movie for me. Because obviously, if you're engaged into it, you're kind of like, oh shit, this is happening. But nothing kind of got to the point where I was like, oh my God, I wasn't expecting that.

SPEAKER_03 13:53

Yeah, this is one of those really interesting ones because I think in the middle of this movie, it can almost at some points feel a little bit slow, but it does feel intentional. So at no point does it lose interest in any way. And what I also think is really interesting is that the stakes feel high every step of the way. And for a movie to, in some parts, feel slow, but also keep you on the edge of your seat to also wonder what's going to happen. It's one of those that it makes me hope for something different every single time I watch it. And while I don't think it's necessarily scary, I do think it has some pretty solid moments that would get someone who's really susceptible to jump scares. Or if you like to pour yourself into the emotional fears of situations, and you know, I watch this movie, I think about my own sisters, and and I I consider how could those bonds ever be challenged? I think that would hit you in a really, really specific sweet spot. So I think this is a really safe movie to watch with someone who can't take a lot of horror, but can stomach a little bit of gore and wants to get their feet wet into the genre.

SPEAKER_01 14:59

I I agree. I think if you dive into the characters, you definitely get a moment of like, you know, oh shit, I should text my sister. Or like, you know, I like to have am I that good of a sister or am I that good of a human that would go through all these links? So I think, yes, there is a little bit of gore that even me, that I legit love gore, I rather see somebody eating baby brains than some of the gore that I saw in this movie. I think the reality is is some of this gore, I was like, ooh, too far, even for me.

SPEAKER_02 15:35

Too far.

SPEAKER_01 15:36

Even for me, and I'm fucking wearing a zombie shirt. Like, even for me, I was like, okay. But you know, if you're a little queasy, maybe, maybe it's not for you, but if you just like a good time, I think it's a good movie.

SPEAKER_03 15:49

Feeling a little queasy here.

SPEAKER_00 15:52

You know, so this is a very dark movie, right? Like Werewolves aside, this is still a very dark film. It explores a unique fascination with death, along with the horrors of going through puberty as like a teenage girl and being sexualized and objectified by the outside world, right? Like, so it's not scary in the traditional sense of jump scares and what we get out of most horror films, even though it is visually frightening to look at at times, maybe to your point, Vero, but it does explore how scary it can be as a teenager going through this transformational time in your life, which is I I think a very interesting way to showcase a horror film.

SPEAKER_01 16:35

How was the first time that you got your period, Sean?

SPEAKER_00 16:38

Oh man, you don't want to know. You don't want to know.

SPEAKER_01 16:41

Uh, I think that I love that you're the one that said this, but getting your fucking period is terrifying. Oh yeah. Especially growing up with a fucking really religious mom that like wouldn't even fucking let you ride horses because you'd lose your virginity. Like, this is like to the point where I was like, I guess I'm gonna have to figure this all out myself. So to see parts in this movie that kind of don't necessarily make it like a funny time, but truthfully show the like, oh shit, my life is changing from now on, was good to see in a movie. It's like turning red, but horror. Have you guys seen that Disney movie? No, I haven't yet.

SPEAKER_03 17:24

But I mean, I think that's what I think is so cool about this movie, right? Like we have seen coming of age movies, we've seen coming of age and lycanthropy movies. We have the fucking werewolf puberty angle with Michael J. Fox's Teen Wolf in the 80s, right? We have all of that. But where that movie is comedy, this movie is dark comedy to your point, Sean. But it's also like this heartfelt, really like solid undercurrent of sisterhood and family loyalty. And how many times in life have you heard jokes about women menstruating and it's like they're fucking monsters? And this movie plays on that. You know what? It's the thing that we need. Not every horror movie is for every single person out there. Boys can have their transformation into wolves and it just be like a buddy comedy and it's cool, and it's like them coming into their power. To take the angle here and just to think about the literal fucking curse of it all. It's honestly pretty spectacular. And I think it makes it such a refreshing entry into the werewolf subgenre, even when on paper some of its highest points have already been done. You nailed it.

SPEAKER_01 18:33

Ridiculously well said. You don't always see a female teenage werewolf, I think, right? And being all of those, being a female, hopefully a teenager at heart and a werewolf in my soul, these things are something that you kind of connect to, right? And you're able to say, like, oh good, it's not just another fucking little kid with a six-pack or whatever the Twilight movie guy, like that's a that's a little kid with a six-pack, which is terrifying. But here you see like the reality of what it could be if it was a female that if it was your friend. Like, imagine this being your friend that just fucking just got her period, everything is going wrong, every can't control anything. I think that the loss of control in high school and just as a teenager in those moments. I think background, like you make all these stupid ass decisions because you don't know what the fuck is happening. And I think that this movie definitely shared a lot more of that. So I don't know. If you're on your period, you for sure should watch this movie because it makes you feel way better.

SPEAKER_00 19:36

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 19:37

It's really comforting in a way, it's like solidarity. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:40

Yeah, I can only imagine. But I cannot express enough for how fresh and original this film feels, right? Like, sure, it takes inspiration from other films, but it doesn't let those inspirations or influences take control of the film, which is super unique. And it's a very fresh and original take on a werewolf film for sure. So we haven't really done a movie in a long time where I can honestly say, man, this is an original film. Like this feels super original.

SPEAKER_01 20:11

I agree. I was excited that there's more because I'm like, okay, they can either fuck it up like The Craft did in future films to come, or they can like genuinely give us another, another go at it, which I think I I truthfully it because of the originality. I think I would want to see more of it. Side note, but have you guys I I've talked about him before, but Harley Poe is like one of my favorite singers ever.

SPEAKER_00 20:38

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 20:39

And have you heard his song, It's the Time of the Month?

SPEAKER_00 20:42

Yes, it's so clever and it's so good.

SPEAKER_01 20:44

And it's literally about this. So, like while I was watching this, I was like, oh shit, this makes me so happy because it's this song, it's the time of the month, and she turns into fucking werewolf in this song. So I think the the movie is definitely original in everything for from I think all characters have a nice little spin to it.

SPEAKER_03 21:06

Yeah, and considering how much it has going for it in terms of its originality and the way that it tells its story, I also think it absolutely fucking sticks the landing on the ending. I think it's one of those where, you know, maybe it's a situation you hope for and maybe it's not, but damn, is it fucking conclusive? And I feel like this is one that, although I know there are sequels out there, I don't feel like it needs a sequel. I don't feel like it demands a sequel. I feel like it says, hey, this is the story that we had to tell. Now I want you to sit in your fucking feelings after it.

SPEAKER_00 21:36

Oh my gosh, for for sure. I actually really enjoyed the ending to this film. It's it's an interesting ending, it's a dark ending, it's a fitting ending, and it's good nonetheless. You you don't get a complete feeling of resolution, which I absolutely love because it keeps you thinking about it afterwards, which is so good. It's I love when they do this kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_01 21:58

It builds you up to. the ending, right? And I everything kind of I I know I said before, but everything kind of clicks. Like from one scene to another, you're kind of engaged to where the ending leaves you satisfied, I think. And it leaves you kind of like, okay, I I enjoyed it to that point. So successful ending, I would say.

SPEAKER_03 22:17

Well it sounds like things are moving pretty favorably for this movie. But let's go ahead and start making our way to our ratings. Before we actually score it definitively though, Sean, how would you describe the gore score?

SPEAKER_00 22:26

Yeah, so there is some really good gore in this film in my opinion, especially for 2000. It it takes inspiration from the body horror in John Carpenter's The Thing and David Cronenberg's The Fly. And you can really tell because the the transformation visuals we get with the werewolf stuff was really well done. That overall there is enough blood flowing throughout this movie and matched with the disgusting effects of the werewolf itself, I'm going to give it a high gore score.

SPEAKER_01 22:57

And what about the animal report? There's so many dead puppies in this movie. I'm just going to say it. So I would probably say that it is not safe for anybody that owns or loves a pet. It's also probably not safe for anybody that cries at that like uh in the arms of an angel song.

SPEAKER_03 23:18

Well let's go ahead and get into our ratings.

SPEAKER_00 23:20

Then Ginger Snaps from 2000 was it a hacker slash let me just kick it off here because there is so much to appreciate about this film. From the storytelling down to the unique chemistry of the two main characters the pacing in this film was spot on in my opinion. The gore and the effects were tasteful the cinematography was enticing it's relatable in many ways. This film takes you on this journey and blurs the lines between lycanthropy and puberty. And it's very clever in the way that it explores the two simultaneously this is absolutely a refreshing take on werewolves in a world where you can pretty much predict what you're going to get when you set out to watch a werewolf flick. But this film is anything but predictable and what I love about it is the way it sets out to subvert the final girl trope in a way it's a howling full moon slash for me.

SPEAKER_01 24:16

I love that full moon slash I don't want to follow you because you made it sound so awesome but I think if you're into like cheesy, anti-bullying a little campy right there's a little bit of like sexy time in this movie the perfect amount of character buildup you get to know these two teenagers that are creepy weirdos morbid like no other there's like relationship and family joy I all of it there's fun there's really good catchphrases. The fact that a werewolf is somewhere in here just makes it a thousand times better. But I think the reality of this is if you are into just the what the 90s 2000s brought us and if you're a female you have to give this a full slash because if not you're not a part of the sisterhood. Even if you're not a female sorry Sean if you're just like if you just like females in general you have to give this a slash are you a feminist?

SPEAKER_03 25:19

Fuck yeah well let's just not stop a good thing while it's going huh we talked about the fact that this movie is not the first property to line up werewolves in puberty. We know that. What this movie does best though is not just acknowledging but really centralizing the experiences that are unique to young women and I think that's so fucking rad because so often you get movies that are about the female experience and the feminine experience and then it's also fucking trashed. This movie has developed a cult following for a really good reason. It's the kind of movie that understands that the alienation of watching your own body become something strange and uncontrollable is relentless and a wild fucking experience. And yeah we've gotten that but it also mirrors the changes that come with menstruation and the whole chaotic package of growing up as a young woman and transitioning into an adulthood and then also acknowledging how fucked up the patriarchy of it all is and also the double standards in society and how all of a sudden you're a monster. Anyway, I'll get off my soapbox I promise this isn't just about a werewolf curse. It's about what can it feel like at times like the curse of womanhood and and where the transformation in moments doesn't feel empowering but it feels alienating and your body feels less and less like your own. But it's also simultaneously about the reclamation of that very body. And look I'm gonna just say it here this is the double feature you need because ginger snaps walked so Jennifer's body could run and it's a motherfucking slash. Oh yep oh shit and with that ginger snaps from 2000 has earned a universal slash now you can find this movie available streaming online check the link in our show notes and see where you can find it right now then join us in the second half so we can unpack this allegory together.

SPEAKER_00 27:03

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SPEAKER_03 28:05

Side effects include unusual hair growth elongated fingernails uncomfortable body contortions and the occasional fang folks you're now entering the spoiler zone for ginger snaps which has earned a universal slash and we have a lot to unpack here but before we get into the specifics of our ratings let's go through those kills.

SPEAKER_00 28:32

Yeah so we have a total of six deaths and I'm including the unknown werewolf that attacked ginger because it must have been somebody but one thing I can appreciate is that the director John Fawcett did not want to use CGI effects at all in this film. He opted to use prosthetics and makeup for everything which proved to be pretty challenging but I appreciate it nonetheless. I also believe you know I know you did the animal report but I also believe like the dog toll like we'll just go back to that for a second was like the same if not higher than this kill count which is both impressive and horrible at the same time.

SPEAKER_03 29:08

So depressing.

SPEAKER_00 29:09

Right? I think it landed somewhere right around six or seven from what I gathered. It was hard to count but just from tidbits that they said throughout the film and trying to keep track. But with that there are plenty of options to sink your teeth into so let's bite in what were your favorite kills?

SPEAKER_01 29:24

First off I'm disappointed that you don't know all the pets that passed away in this movie. I know how dare you starting with Baxter I'm so sorry. Yeah it's okay I I was writing the pets names and then I was like this is too sad. Just because the beginning you're just like oh my god what did I get myself into yeah my favorite kill fuck Trina I really wanted her to be mauled and like be killed by something but the fact that she was so fucking stupid and slipped on milk and so great. Actually hitting her hitting her head on the counter is probably like my biggest fear. Like I always think about like tripping and hitting my head and like that's how I go. But fuck Trina I'm glad she fucking died and cracked her head open.

SPEAKER_03 30:08

Okay see this was also my favorite kill and I'll pick a backup here just because there's some that are really worthy of talking about but that moment between Bridget and Trina was really really interesting because for me it was the buildup of the death and the immediate aftermath of the death that really made it spectacular because we start to see just as you know the female bullies in movies are so often painted right they're portrayed as like a total raging psychopath who's just who just doesn't give a shit about anyone but then you find out that they actually have a heart of gold and they're jaded because they've been hurt and they've been wounded it is the arc of so many fucking like frenemy situations and TV shows. But what was really interesting about Trina is she described him as a cherry hound and she and she says just once someone shouldn't give that fucker the satisfaction and you see that Trina has been hurt. You see that Trina you know really this is a moment where they could have been operating in solidarity with one another and I think that is one of the other sad parts about this movie because this is a classic tale of women against women when women should be on the same side as women. I'm just saying however the death recreation scene very quick thinking and I loved it oh so good.

SPEAKER_01 31:27

It made me smile. Okay and yeah whatever women don't hate on women maybe it's because I'm on my period and I'm extra spicy but she was so such a fucking bitch. Like I feel like she got what she deserved I was more sad about Trina's dog than Trina.

SPEAKER_03 31:44

Yeah no for sure and listen at the end of the day Trina was not a chill character right but I do think that Trina was conditioned to be such a way thinking about the social dynamics of that entire fucking high school and to think about just like the way that people grow up and and the way that like the male gaze kind of permeates fucking everything that young women do in school yeah it it's just it was just a lot.

SPEAKER_01 32:11

Maybe I now I feel kind of bad because what it was a service dog too am I fucking an asshole? I guess so fuck maybe she had real bad anxiety that was her emotional dog I'm here ass calling her a bitch she just had anxiety no my gosh at the end of the day Trina was still a jerk but I think my backup favorite kill is gonna go to Mr.

SPEAKER_03 32:33

Wayne not because we even get to really see the kill but because I love the fucking aftermath of the kill and just how he was absolutely destroyed on that desk.

SPEAKER_00 32:45

Oh my gosh the gash like this or slash or whatever across the face so good.

SPEAKER_01 32:50

I I'm going back to Trina I'm sorry but Trina did follow us the entire movie because her fingers were in the movie all the way to the end so she got a little bit of credit throughout the movie. Yeah she really got her screen time in yeah that's true.

SPEAKER_00 33:06

Ah you know I I think those are good ones I think the janitor getting mauled by ginger and trying to escape only to be almost like played with like a puppet was kind of like I don't know you could call it campy or funny in a way I thought that was kind of hilarious and but even just receiving that final blow where she you know they're saying like he's still alive right obviously he might turn or something like that whatever and she and and ginger just like shoves her hand into his stomach and just fucking rips him open like insane insane what a great kill.

SPEAKER_03 33:41

Also so sad for him. And he just seemed like such a perfectly nice old man and Ginger insists that he's a pervert who's staring at Bridget the Now it is weird that he's in the women's locker room when she goes in there after being like forced and pushed into the dead dog. That small element of it is weird but also I'm sure that he wasn't expecting anyone to actually be there since the class was in session.

SPEAKER_01 34:04

Bro he's the only janitor you know what I mean who's gonna clean the who's gonna clean all the tampons.

SPEAKER_03 34:09

Maybe he could wait till the class is not in session or people aren't showering or changing but you know maybe he's just oblivious yeah I don't think that was actively going on you know he probably just saw this girl running and covered in dog guts and thought maybe I should help give her a towel that's true he was probably trying to get it clean before everyone got there kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 34:29

Yeah given the benefit of the doubt. But but hold on let's talk about one second let's talk about like falling into the the carcass of that dog. You're gonna tell me that this dead mutilated dog in the middle of this field no one saw not one person saw I love that scene because it just showed how ridiculous this movie was going to right like exactly why did nobody clean that fucking dog up first off they were playing for at least a solid 30 minutes before she fucking jumped in there. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 35:04

I I just loved it because I I knew that I was it was gonna have the right amount of gore for me. If you sh if a girl gets shoved into a dog some dog guts I'm in because you know it's gonna be fun.

SPEAKER_03 35:18

That was honestly a point where I was like oh Jesus but I also wondered had they not gone that far out and hadn't noticed the body but it is one of those moments where it is the definitive like hey we're really committing to this bit we're leaning into it and there isn't a lot of logic here but it's fine. We're just gonna go with it.

SPEAKER_02 35:39

True.

SPEAKER_03 35:40

It definitely hits right which is why I think the gore in this movie is so solid visually I know that we have so much to unpack there and I'm sure you all have a lot to say about it but I just want to acknowledge my favorite visual which was the dude hitting the werewolf with his van and it was just explosive gore. It was like just that execution chef's kiss plus ginger's nails looking gross as fuck looking worse and worse and worse as the movie went on.

SPEAKER_01 36:07

Everything about ginger her tail the tail are you fucking kidding me that is so gross but I loved it. Oh my gosh if we're talking about the special effects and just the the what they did her teeth kind of just staying fucking werewolf form towards the end her you know the one fucking wonky ass contact like it it gave you the vibe that there were some people that put effort into this versus you know just she sat in there for with makeup for so fucking long and I think that that just movies that have that element I think for me are just amazing. And I I think that that's what kind of got me really into it and I already said this but when you saw me watching this movie if you were a little fly in the wall that's when I was like yes nice this is amazing this is so great because the gore and everything about it was awesome. It also gave you a little bit of that like you know I get it's 2000 but it still felt 90s you know it still had that like actual like the the movie was just kind of bad quality right like if you're looking at this on you know my fucking 60 inch screen I was like oh it looks a little grainy but I think everything about it really kind of played played the part the dark room kind of everything that that made you feel like you were part of it and it just turned a little creepier throughout. So I was really really into it.

SPEAKER_00 37:34

There there's a lot visually to really admire in this film and when we talk about like ginger and we talk about the way she looked and throughout this movie and her slow transition to becoming a full-on werewolf or whatever the and me talking about like the gore right and the effects and and the decision to not use CGI and and really just focus on the prosthetics and the makeup I think it's really crazy but also it it was troublesome because from what I from what I gathered ginger's like makeup to become a werewolf took hours upon hours to put on and even hours to take off and you know not being able to talk without a lisp with those teeth in and just like the the mask the the the whatever they put on her face or whatever to become that werewolf like not being able to breathe properly like all these different things like just crazy to think about but it definitely paid off because it looked absolutely great. It it really looked great. But aside from that I I there's so much little visual things throughout the movie that I really enjoyed. The things they did to do the stage prop scenes where they reenacted death and take photos and all that stuff those just little tidbits looked great. The way the opening credits go through their staged photos of death are so good and so eerie that's one of the I mean one of the best parts of the movie is just the credit scene. I mean just such a the intro credit scene is just so good and the camera angles even the camera angles and the shots we get of Bridget and her facial reactions when she walks into like the bathroom and finds ginger vomiting blood and that upward focus on her face and those eyes it was just so well done.

SPEAKER_01 39:15

Yeah I think you you stole my favorite scene but the opening credits like to start a movie that way really kind of builds you up to like have either the best time watching this movie or you're like oh man it can't get any better. I mean just the idea of two sisters making these fucking like pretend horror flicks and just killing themselves in so many ways and their family just being like it's just the girls you know like this is such a just the fact that like she's licking her blood and being like this is corn syrup daddy you want some like that is such a cool way of living so I think bringing that as part of like how you grow up was a really cool kind of part of the movie that really connected with me.

SPEAKER_03 40:02

For sure and I'm I'm even thinking about the creativity that goes into that I'll admit the opening credits were not my favorite part of the movie because they were so early 2000s that it was just a little bit much for me. But the premise of it I really enjoyed I really loved the bond between Bridget and Ginger which is why I think my favorite scene is one that really breaks the reality of everything, right? Up until this point they have this morbid fascination with death which I mean honestly yeah they're the outsiders they don't conform they're not considered really the normal people in their school but they also are existing with a particular level of privilege right how bad are their problems really but they're miserable in their home right and the second there's some real danger you see how differently they respond. But for me my favorite scene is when ginger's attacked by the wolf and we get the great effects for the wolves and we see so much chaos but they also hold back and they don't show us too much. What we do see what we do hear what we do feel is their fear. And for as much as they're obsessed with death Bridget did not want Ginger to die. She was terrified she was trying to fight off this wolf and that was where that sisterhood really stepped up and it's like you've been living your fantasy you think that you really want this but let's see when the moment comes how do you respond? What do you really want? And I absolutely love that moment.

SPEAKER_00 41:42

It was it was so beautifully done because that was absolutely one of my favorite scenes as well it was just so beautifully done the less is more right the focus on not seeing everything but you're just feeling everything that's happening the intensity of that scene. I I think another great scene that doesn't even have to do with werewolves or any kind of violence or anything is that awkward family dinner scene where we get the talk about getting you know Ginger's period that whole scene where they're talking about it and the dad is chiming in it's just awkward and you can feel the awkwardness and and it's just hilarious at the same time.

SPEAKER_01 42:20

I think it's and this to go back to your point Chris it's growing up in such a like everything is fine family like we all love each other and don't really talk about your problems like your period it's great. You don't even really need to know about it. Like the fact that the mom made a fucking cake for your period never a bloody cake a bloody cake but like being you know growing up you sometimes go the polar opposite right and I speak from experience. So I think them it was just a natural thing to be so dark and go into this like our parent our mom is so fucking happy all the time that can't be real right and finding the opposite sometimes might not be who you really are right and they might be like oh I'm into death and I'm morbid and blah blah blah I don't want you know I don't want to get my period that's the end of you know everything that you can imagine. It's a curse but then when it actually happens you know and you're actually faced into the like problem solving piece of like hey figure your shit out it took Bridget a really fucking long time to try to run in there because I'm just I'm just saying like I would if that would have happened to any of you or my I would have been fucking two stepping like not even not even double thinking it you know and I think that that's the reality of you know there are chicken shits. She was a little bit of a chicken shit like she was all quiet and sad. Like if somebody was attacking my blood relative I would be you know you sink or swim like you you're you're ride or die for a reason and it it took her too long. She took two Polaroids and still didn't fucking Get up to the to the fucking to the steps. So but it was really nicely done.

SPEAKER_00 44:05

They do so many clever things that are just kind of funny, like campy, like weird things. So like the the the scene where the mom is like doing laundry and pulls out like the bloody underwear, and then she's looking at it and she's like, What the fuck? But then she's like, Oh, I can get this out, and she starts spraying it and trying to get it out, like get the stain remover out or whatever. Like, what a what a hilarious moment that was.

SPEAKER_01 44:28

I mean, yeah, uh there is a lot of moments like that. Ginger kind of like forcefully, you know, getting a little rapey is kind of amusing if you think about it. When you get your period, you're like a woman, you know what I mean? Like you start getting all horny and shit. So this is literally what is happening throughout this entire movie.

SPEAKER_03 44:48

It's also the subversion, right? Like we think about what has the portrayal been when men turn into werewolves as teenagers, and really ginger is being tapped into this kind of like primal instinct, right? Like she's ravenous in so many different ways, and that's where I think it's a cool subversion of things.

SPEAKER_01 45:09

And to that point, they made Ginger look hot, but Jason fucking pimple face when he was transitioning, he looked like straight up shit. Like that guy got uglier.

SPEAKER_00 45:20

He looked terrible, so bad.

SPEAKER_01 45:23

Like he couldn't figure out his fucking agony. His his dick was literally bleeding, you know what I mean? So I think the shamefulness of for once when a male character turns into a werewolf, he's not a fucking hot, steamy, you know, sex symbol. He's this fucking pathetic guy with a bleeding dick.

SPEAKER_03 45:42

Which is exactly why I love the characters in this movie, even as much as I hate some of the characters in this movie, right? We have the sisters, obviously, I'm sure we'll circle back to them in a minute, but Spooky Bitch actually just called it out in the chat, and I wanted to take some time to talk about their mother, Pamela. Because in true Pamela Voorhees fashion, she's fucking ride or die for her murdering children. I love the spectrum and the scale and the journey that you take with her from oblivious, clueless, out-of-touch mom to she's also known all along because she does have that motherly instinct. Like she may look like she doesn't know what's going on, but she has the sense she can feel these things, she knows these things. Yeah, she plays it off really well to their father that the fingers are just fake, but she knows what's going on, and the second she finds out that her children can be taken from her, she's like, I'll just burn the fucking house down. Maybe she'll include the dad in there too.

SPEAKER_00 46:43

Probably. She didn't even think twice about it. She was like, All right, this is what we gotta do. Let's just get out and start this new life.

SPEAKER_01 46:51

I know. And she realizes how fucking boring her husband is and how he like he's just not part of the gang, you know. So she's like, Well, kick rocks, old man. I'm taking my daughters and going.

SPEAKER_00 47:05

This is true. I mean, they it didn't seem like they had the best of relationships, you know. They were going to counseling, you know, they were throwing jabs or she was throwing jabs at him. So obviously he probably wasn't the greatest guy.

SPEAKER_01 47:17

I low-key had a small little crush on Sam, obviously, throughout the entire movie. But the fact that A, I don't know if anybody knew, but motherfucker was listening to Glassdraw when he drives up. Yeah, dude, I instant love. I was like, okay, I have a crush on this guy. He would be somebody that I would date in high school 100%, but maybe not a drug dealer because I was straight edge, but you know, but in the beginning of the movie, you think he's gonna be this like hard ass, like fuck everybody. And then you actually get a soft side towards him. And when Ginger is almost being a little too rapey with him, the first thing he says is your sister, which throughout the entire time you were like, Oh, Bridget can never be loved. But low-key, he kind of had a little bit of love, you know, and a little bit of of a connection with her. And I think I I truthfully won't was attracted to him. But then personally, I was like, bro, this guy's a sweet guy. He wants to save everybody. He wants to like, he's the first one to like be like, you know what, let me get killed. You stay behind. I got you. I don't know when fucking ginger kicks uh Trina's dog, he's like not worried about Trina, but he like goes and like pets the dog. I was like, what a sweet gentleman! But there were so many little things that the characters were doing that truthfully embodied who they were throughout the entire movie, and I think it was a good thing to see all of them develop throughout the entire movie. So yay for Sam.

SPEAKER_00 48:46

Yeah, that's true. He was a good guy. It was it was actually tough to see him go, like he was, you know, being that hero trying to trying to help or you know, whatever. But it w that was, you know, just thinking about it now, too. That was an intense death too, because he was just mauled and trying to stay alive and he was breathing. Man, what an intense scene that was.

SPEAKER_03 49:08

Yeah, listen, snaps to Sam. However, I wouldn't be fucking a werewolf. No. Like he was conflicted, but also he was a little bit into it, and then he also then decided to set the boundary, which I respect and I love him for. He's a king, but I just don't think I could ever like if if if a woman walked up to me as a werewolf, I just don't see a situation or circumstance in which I'd be like, Yeah, fuck it, I'd be down.

SPEAKER_01 49:34

Dude, we're different people. Yeah, we are. Maybe because of the woman. I don't know what it is, and I know it's weird.

SPEAKER_03 49:40

I want to throw it back to our rewind on Dracula, Bram Stoker's Dracula from 1992 when you said you totally would with a lichen. I absolutely would not with a lichen. Thanks.

SPEAKER_01 49:50

So lichen versus werewolf, though. I I would lichen more than werewolf. You're lichen the lichen? I liken the lichen. Werewolf, uh, I mean, especially the way that ginger was looking towards the fucking end. I feel like a lichen has a little bit more of a structured face to where a werewolf looks more like a monster.

SPEAKER_00 50:11

Let's just talk about Emily Perkins and Catherine Isabel, right? Bridget and Ginger, the Fitzgerald sisters, because I said it before in my score, like the chemistry they had together was absolutely amazing. Like they just worked really well together. And it just you I don't know. It's crazy to think about, but maybe part of it is, you know, they they kind of like essentially grew up together. They auditioned for this on the same day, but not only that, they were born in the same fucking hospital, they went to the same fucking schools all the way through private school, and they even belonged to the same fucking agency. I don't know if they do anymore, but they did, and that's fucking crazy.

SPEAKER_03 50:49

Yeah. Talk about two women who are just meant to fucking be together on screen. Absolutely love to see it. And their chemistry is absolutely unreal. And I think that's what makes them the beating heart of this entire movie because it goes from being just like this physical transformation to um to like an emotional and a relational one. And it really does test the ties of sisterhood. Like, I think about the fact that I've never really, at least in my best recollection, I don't think I've even had an argument with my sisters, right? Like, really, really ride or die type of situation here. But to see Bridget's love and to see that pain, like she goes through hell and back trying to remain loyal to her sister. And so I think Ginger's ultimate death, falling onto the knife while Bridget is trying is just trying to protect herself, still has the antidote. And you know at this point, Sam is still a goner, right? So does Bridget really know how to make another cure? But you also know that she was about to use that shit on Ginger if she got a good shot in. Like she wasn't gonna just use it on herself. Maybe there would have been enough for both, who knows? But that's where this movie is really, really heartbreaking because their chemistry has felt good every single time that I've watched it, but it felt even better now. And between this and their mom being such a ride or die for them, it was just that sisterhood and that bond that made it so much more of a bummer for me at the end.

SPEAKER_00 52:15

Yeah, it was it was pretty intense, it was crazy. There was a lot of emotions running through the end of that film, and that's you know, when we talk about you know how how good that ending was, and I know I mentioned it like the the resolution that you don't really get, and that's really that's what I'm hinting at, right? Like it's just it was heavy, it was super heavy, and and you could almost feel without even words, there was no words being said, right? But you can feel everything that that uh Bridget was was going through in that moment, which I think is really special.

SPEAKER_01 52:48

I think there's such a crazy amount of trust. Like they they hint to it throughout the entire movie. They're like, we're supposed to die together, we're supposed to do these things together. I mean, Bridget piercing Ginger's belly button is one of those things that like only fucking best friends do. You know what I mean? So it's more than sisterhood, it's more than kind of like that friendship. There's so much trust that the end puts you in that moment where you're like, oh fuck, you you broke trust, right? Even though it was, you know, it was mishap, it happened, whatever way it did, like the fact that that's how ginger goes, it kind of shatters that, you know. But I think the the entire movie and there were so many good parts and so many bad parts, but I think the my one of my favorite parts was Ginger kicking Trina's ass when she pushes Bridget. Like one of those moments where I was like, listen, she had so much anger that kind of she just impalled. But we saw it happening, right? There was the foreshadowing of it, but it happening was so nice.

SPEAKER_03 53:56

And it was also though the subtle growl that kicks off right as the music kicks off when she's about to fucking go in. That was so good.

SPEAKER_01 54:07

And her teeth being all fucking, you know, she was showing her teeth like a dog would, like right after she still has her little fang out. Ah, so good.

SPEAKER_03 54:16

Let me tell you though, for as good as that was, the worst part of this movie, and again, I think about that lacrosse field, I think about the dead dog of it all, the dead dogs are the worst part of this movie because it does not get any easier for me to stomach the more it goes, especially because we start to see them. We hear their names, we see the reactions to losing them. Legitimately, as I was watching this movie today, my dog, my little Australian, well, she's not little, but my Australian Shepherd Lab mix was sleeping beneath my feet, and I have like a little drafting chair that's go that goes higher off the ground, so my feet don't touch the ground, and she fits perfectly underneath there. So I'll just like massage her stomach with my feet while I'm watching movies. And I actually like paused the movie and I got down and I fucking hugged her because I'm like, I don't want you to ever be eviscerated the way these poor dogs were. It's so sad.

SPEAKER_00 55:10

Oh my gosh, it's so true. And while we were watching this film, my little eight-month-old Dalmatian Pinocchio, you know, you hear these dog barking and all this stuff in the film, and he just perks up and his ears are alert, and he's watching the film, like literally watching the TV. And I'm like, no, close your eyes. You can't watch this stuff. This is really bad for you. Like, do not watch this.

SPEAKER_03 55:31

Not that close your eyes.

SPEAKER_00 55:32

Yeah, close your eyes. You can't see this. But but yeah, like that's the thing. Like, there's so much to like about this film. It's hard to pick a worse part, but if I had to, it probably would be the amount of dog death. But because you said that, try to pull something else out. And I think that maybe, maybe the look of the werewolf, right? It was far less hairy than anticipated. It almost looked like a giant naked mall rat, like an evil naked mall rat, right? Like that's kind of what it kind of reminded me of a little bit. But yeah, man, I don't know, the dog death. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 56:04

I yeah, I don't want to keep talking about dogs dying because I'll literally have nightmares, but I think uh one of the worst parts too is the inside of Sam's van. I just have to say that. That's the thing. I I feel like that smelled like baloney and fucking feet.

SPEAKER_00 56:20

Ooh, beef and cheese.

SPEAKER_01 56:22

Dude, all those nasty ass kids fucking just smoking in there. Ugh.

SPEAKER_00 56:27

But the last thing, and I I don't want to keep talking about the death of dogs, but that opening scene, like the opening, like first dog death, if you will, like where the the woman is like finding her her dog mutilated and she's like freaking out, and all the kids are just laughing at her and like, ah, we're just gonna continue playing street hockey, like fuck this. I was like, man, that's a little off-putting.

SPEAKER_01 56:47

Dude, all of the dog deaths, the little kid going to feed his fucking dog and calling his name, and like he knows it's like, we're my fucking dogs.

SPEAKER_00 56:56

Oh no. And you know, there's we didn't see it though.

SPEAKER_01 56:59

I know there's always that moment though, and when she said it, she's like, he was barking, and then he wouldn't stop barking, and then he was barking, and she's like kind of saying it like there's some times where I'm like, the dog is barking so much, and I kind of get a little rage. I never again after watching this movie. Never if he bar if he barks, I'm like, it's okay, buddy. Don't worry.

SPEAKER_02 57:18

Good boy, good boy.

SPEAKER_01 57:20

I still love you, I won't kill you.

SPEAKER_03 57:22

Yeah, remember all these dogs are just like really freaking out about this whole situation. They're like, Mom, mom, mom, get your ass inside, mom, there's a werewolf.

SPEAKER_00 57:30

Oh no.

SPEAKER_03 57:32

Oh man. But I will say that the dog deaths are something that does impact the rewatchability for me. This is a great movie. I really do enjoy it, but I think the pace at which I'm watching it, which is once every few years at best, is exactly where I need to keep it.

SPEAKER_00 57:49

Yeah, I think I think this movie definitely has rewatch value. It's not necessarily like riddled with Easter eggs, but it does reflect other films. It has, you know, some really good scenes and some good lines throughout the whole film. It's it's a fun and refreshing movie if you're in the mood for some werewolf action, but tired of the same old, same old. So it definitely has the rewatch value, but I'm with you. I don't think it's something that you want to like revisit over and over again frequently. It's definitely something you can come back to every so often.

SPEAKER_03 58:18

I'm sorry. Tired of the same old, same old, and ready for some werewolf action? Exactly. Vero's brand right now.

SPEAKER_00 58:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:25

All of it. I think for me though, I I won't turn it off. You know what I mean? The the funny thing is, my husband actually watched this movie before I did. So yesterday I was like, oh man, I gotta find it. And he's like, it's on shutter. I was like, oh, that's cool. Thanks for telling me that you watch this movie. But I think the reality, I won't turn it off if it's on. Will I watch it? Like, will it go into my like Halloween kind of series? Probably not. I probably will re-watch it if I watch the second one or the third one or however many there are. I think I have to do the buildup, but I wouldn't necessarily watch this unless I'm doing, you know, it has to be like a theme night or something.

SPEAKER_03 59:09

Yeah, we'll have to find a way to revisit it somehow. Maybe we can do a little watch party if we ever do the sequel, and and Binks and Mac are gonna have to get to share their thoughts on the film as well. But for now, there you have it, folks. Ginger snaps from 2000 has earned a universal slash so far. We've certainly had a robust discussion here, but it doesn't end here by any means.

SPEAKER_01 59:31

We want to know what you think. Would you fuck a werewolf? Let us know. You can join in on our conversation by hanging out with us for free in our Discord. Click the link in our show notes to sign up.

SPEAKER_00 59:41

And if you've enjoyed listening to us howl at the moon, consider becoming one of our patrons. Visit patreon.com slash hackerslash to enjoy more of the show with early access, extended episodes, bonus content, and live shows.

SPEAKER_03 59:54

We'll see you next time, folks. And remember, a thick, syrupy, voluminous discharge is not uncommon. Squeeze it out like a pump.