307: The Gingerdead Man (2005)

SPEAKER_00 0:04

I did it all for the cookie.

SPEAKER_03 0:10

Greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hack or Slash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. Now it's time to meet your maker. If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack, a title joke, a waste of time, or a slash.

SPEAKER_01 0:28

Totally killer. Pun intended.

SPEAKER_03 0:31

We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, we're rating these movies with a perspective we've gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris. I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast. And this week I'm joined by the Superfly Space Guy Mac.

SPEAKER_01 0:45

I smell something in the air, smells feminine.

SPEAKER_03 0:48

And the paranormal paramour Binks. Your ass is toast. This week's film takes us on an unusual journey where baked goods take a dark turn, and a cookie becomes less of a treat and more of a vessel for something sinister. The film tells the story of a gingerbread man brought to life. Instead of a fairy tale cookie on the run, though, it harbors the soul of a convicted killer, one with a vendetta against the person who led to his demise. The film weaves a tale of vengeance and chaos set against the backdrop of a seemingly innocent fakery. It's a story that combines horror with an arguably absurd sense of dark comedy, which is a reflection of its time in the mid-2000s when filmmakers were exploring new and unexpected combinations in the genre. Produced with a flair for the unusual, the movie challenges the boundaries of conventional horror, inviting the audience into a world where the fantastical dares to become real. Despite its modest beginnings, the film managed to spawn three sequels which feature resurrection, time travel, and even fighting an evil bong. Preheat your ovens and don your aprons, folks, because this week we're talking about the Ginger Dead Man. Who's seen this one before?

SPEAKER_01 1:54

I have not seen it, but I have been hearing about it for years from you, thanks to the sequel's title Passion of the Crust.

SPEAKER_03 2:01

Literally, that's the only reason I know about this shit.

SPEAKER_02 2:05

I can't believe that it's taken me until now to realize that's what that was. I don't know. I think I just wanted to pretend so badly, and I almost got to the point where it worked that you were making this whole thing up. So obviously, I have never seen this movie. Can you even imagine if I had like what the circumstances would have been? I I'm still trying to wrap my head around it. Me, me watching this movie, that would be absurd.

SPEAKER_03 2:30

I want you to brace for shock. Because obviously I've never seen this, but Veto has.

SPEAKER_01 2:35

No shock.

SPEAKER_03 2:36

Wow. So shocked. And it has only been 10 years since you last saw it.

SPEAKER_01 2:41

Only. Wow. No, I am I'm not surprised.

SPEAKER_03 2:43

And listen, I had only heard of this movie from its magnificent pun of a title, specifically The Ginger Dead Man and the sequel of uh The Passion of the Crust. I only had any interest in even touching this franchise so we could one day get to a movie called Passion of the Crust. Because in my mind, I've had so many ideas of ways we could approach the episode introduction for a movie of that title. There's a lot of drama, there's a lot of flair that goes into it. But you cannot go into this kind of movie with this kind of title and expect a good movie. There I said it. I will say that I did hope for at least something that is so bad it's good.

SPEAKER_01 3:22

I'm with you. I think I expected it to be just horribly cheesy and for the plot to be terrible and there to be horrible effects and the unnecessary zaniness of Gary Beusey sprinkled throughout.

SPEAKER_02 3:34

I couldn't agree more though that yeah, you read this kind of title and you already know that you're in for a rude awakening and one hell of a time, and that time could be horrendous or hilarious, depending on your sense of humor. I gotta say, I actually subjected one of my closest friends, Lucy, to see this movie with me. She honestly is such a trooper. Sometimes she comes over my house, we spend the day together, and she ends up watching some of the movies that we have to do for the podcast, and they end up being movies that she absolutely hates. So when she came over this time around and I was like, hear me out. I really need to see this movie. Do you think you can do it? And she's like, you know what? Let's go. Maybe it'll be so bad that it's good, just like you said, Chris. And man, I wanted to really give it the benefit of the doubt. Even after I set up our Notion page and I saw the GIF and I saw what he looked like, I was like, what in the hell is going on?

SPEAKER_03 4:33

Listen, even the aesthetic of the Ginger Dead Man, it looks so bad. However, it did have that potential of, okay, but this might be like a zany fucking 80s comedy that's so wacky and so out there that it's entertaining. I should have remembered the year that was appended to the end of this movie because then I would have reset my expectations, I think.

SPEAKER_02 4:56

But it did call for a good time because I'll tell you, despite obviously seeing the name and expecting it to be trash, there are a couple things that I was like, all right, let's brace ourselves for real. Do I want to say F horror? Like D horror? This is like the bottom of the bottom type shit. I didn't know what kind of letter, I guess, I should put this horror to. I was expecting to at least be raunchy as hell, of course. I was expecting to see the Ginger Dead Man as like a full-blown human-sized Ginger Deadman. I was hoping. The card that we picked that's on our notion page didn't fully give you an idea of his size. I don't know. That's what I was expecting as well. I was like, how is this gingerbread manager to get so massive? I don't know. There was a lot of things that I was trying to make sense of in my head and like do the math for before I even watch this movie to try and give it more benefit of the doubt.

SPEAKER_03 5:48

And boy, oh boy. Now I'm thinking about Ghostbusters and that marshmallow fluff, gigantic puff thing. That's what I was thinking.

SPEAKER_02 5:58

Because a gingerbread man, what the fuck? Now that has promise. I wish I could say the rest of the movie had promise.

SPEAKER_01 6:05

You immediately start watching this and realizing that this is worse than made for TV cheesy. The acting is almost distractingly bad. The entire time it was honestly pulling my attention from the actual movie.

SPEAKER_02 6:16

The thing is that it's like a weird rye that you're on with this one. Because I feel like at first we dive right into the bullshit. We're diving right into the shitty as hell acting and like just weird, this is terrible, like low budget vibes. And then after a while, I was like, all right, but where's the gore and like the raunchiness and the like the grossness that I at least expected coming out of this? And then as we kept going, the rest of the ride felt like a soft core porn. Hear me out. Because the writing was so bad, the acting was terrible, and some of these characters, their relationships with one another, or the things that they were saying about other characters were a little questionable considering the circumstances. Can't wait to unpack it in a bit. But it was giving a really weird energy.

SPEAKER_03 7:06

I'll say that. You just had me sitting here thinking, like, do I even know what softcore porn is? Because the math was, again, not mathing for me. But when you talk about a weird ass plot with some terrible dialogue and some fumbling through some really hollow acting skills, I think I can imagine.

SPEAKER_02 7:23

It's like these smut movies that have been coming out in the last decade or two, you know, like when we think of Fifty Shades of Grey, there's this franchise called After. There's a couple of these out and about. Don't look at me like that, Mac. I'm a woman, okay? I do know these things.

SPEAKER_01 7:39

You're a strong independent woman. You can read and watch whatever you want.

SPEAKER_02 7:42

Thanks for your permission. Thank you. I sure can. However, those things, different caliber, higher caliber than this movie in terms of soft core porn energy.

SPEAKER_03 7:53

Yeah, when you started describing the softcore porn energy, and as you continued to describe it in a way that, okay, it clicked to my mind. I was thinking about when I accidentally tap into a fan fiction that ends up being smut and is also written very terribly. And the only thing that's written well is if they try to describe a sex scene, but even then it's like still kind of weird. You're using very specific words like pulsating or like yep, quivering, like, why the fuck are you saying these words? Like, this doesn't feel right or natural. It's just okay. You've got it right there. I get it. You've painted the picture. Thank you so much. I can agree with that sentiment, but I think the biggest feeling I had watching this movie was what happened? Like, who the fuck in the early 2000s? Because again, we had some bullshit in the early 2000s. Who the fuck in the early 2000s says, hey, let me pay Gary Busey 25 grand to play a fucking gingerbread man that's killing people, and then doesn't go as hard as it should. Because the bigger insult to all of this, right? If you're baking some cookies and you're like, oh, I'm gonna put a little bit of salt just to like do a little something, but you put way too much salt, the biggest fucking salt in the wound that is this movie is the fact that it's boring.

SPEAKER_01 9:09

It's sad. I think one of the biggest things that disappointed me is that this is produced by Full Moon Pictures. The entire time I'm hoping for Puppet Master. I'm really like crossing my fingers and like, if you can bring that magic and make it a little silly and a little comedy, you know what? I'll I'll be here for it. But what do you get instead? You get the titular character shockingly stiff. Just the gingerbread man like has no flex, has no agility. I'm not just talking about as a prop. I'm talking more about this thing should be killing like 15-20 people. We should be seeing heads coming off, lawnmowers, give me some Chucky style kills. If you can do interesting kills with puppets, this thing should be entertaining. It's a cookie, but instead, it's just, you know, I don't know, a little underbaked.

SPEAKER_03 9:51

Yeah, I wish this gingerbread man looked as fierce as the gingerbread men in Krampus. Much better ginger action there. I think the biggest disappointment for me was within like it being so boring. I needed more cookie. I needed more gingerbread man, I needed more ginger dead man. There were too many moments of just people and dialogue and talking about relationships, and guy shows up with a girl, and then suddenly he's kissing another girl. I'm like, what the fuck are we doing here and why do I care? Give me the fucking cookie. I'm doing all of this for the fucking cookie.

SPEAKER_00 10:26

I did it all for the cookie.

SPEAKER_03 10:27

Listen, fucking call me cookie monster. I wanted more of the fucking cookie. But the biggest surprise I had, this movie is connected to Beyonce. What? What? Mm-hmm. This movie has a connection to Beyonce. There's a guy in this movie who has an uncredited appearance as a white police officer in the music video for If I Were a Boy. It may be a stretch, but people continue to work after this movie, and I think that is a testament. A testament indeed.

SPEAKER_02 10:59

Look, I've got a few surprises here, but I think I just want to share one. I'll save the rest for, you know, the spoiler section. But one thing I'll say, you've got to watch this movie with captions because it surprised me how funny it was when you watched it with captions and you read the way that they describe the score. That's probably one of the highlights of this movie experience. I was almost in tears laughing from how funny it was when they describe certain noises or certain things as it's going along because it does not match at all. It's so awkward. I doubt you're gonna rewatch this movie, but if you stumble upon it and do it again, please do it with captions. Or listeners, if you're so compelled and curious, please do it with captions just so that you can enjoy just that little bit of hilarity for sure.

SPEAKER_03 11:51

My struggle is I did watch this two times. Oh, yeah. Well, that's unfortunate. Listen, I watched it the first time, and I have to have captions on every time I watch anything, so I can fucking understand a single thing that this is shit is saying, but I wasn't looking at the captions for the music cues. I was really only looking at it whenever the gingerbread man was talking. That's when I wanted to know some shit. Yeah, that's fair. These other motherfuckers, I was like, okay, yeah, keep it moving.

SPEAKER_02 12:18

No, it's the music cues, it's the score. That it was so those adjectives were doing the damn thing. They were working overtime. It was great. It was so great. But I do want to share a disappointment. It is similar to yours, Chris. We only see the gingerbread men twice, about halfway through the movie, because again, the rest of it is setting up the plot for this softcore porn. There's a couple other things, like those shitty as hell accents. My god, it was tough. I just came back from Texas, and there's no way on this planet that was supposed to be a Texan accent. I'm sorry, but that was real bad.

SPEAKER_03 12:51

I lived in Texas for years. I myself had a little bit of a country accent. You did? Sounded nothing like this bullshit.

SPEAKER_02 12:57

Nothing at all. And the last thing I'll share in terms of disappointment, and I'm not gonna say the name of the town, but the name of the town is definitely problematic, friends.

SPEAKER_03 13:07

Problematic. I know none of us were going into this shit expecting a great movie, and I don't even think we were expecting a scary movie, but I do think that there is potential when confronting the idea of a gingerbread man killer to maybe have this element that could be a little fucking intimidating in some ways, maybe just like the tendon slasher of it all. Not moments that give you fright, but moments that make you squirm and go, ooh. This thing can get places that I think many killers can't. And it didn't really use or capitalize on any of that. So if it's not gonna be scary, I think this kind of movie has to be funny. And it just also wasn't funny enough for me to be a good like horror comedy.

SPEAKER_01 13:51

I really failed to nail either of them very well. I think when you watch it, it's clear what it is, but it does not go to a hundred, it goes to about twenty-five in in both categories, and so it's not that funny, not that scary. Technically, it's a horror plot-wise, so I guess they get credit for that.

SPEAKER_03 14:09

Yeah, you're not good looking and you don't have a good personality.

SPEAKER_02 14:12

The only thing that's frightening about this movie is how stupid some of these characters are, truthfully. Other than that, there's really nothing scary. Actually, damn, as I say that, I'm gonna say a word that's a little scary to some people, so brace yourself. It starts with an M. Veto, if you're listening, I'm sorry. I please forgive me. It's the moisture of the gingerbread man as well. That's a little off. Moisture is not bad. It's that when I remove the U R E.

SPEAKER_03 14:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:39

I'm gonna do my best to try to trigger Warn every time I say it, if I do say it at all, because that was pretty scary as well. You know, I want to say that number one would be how stupid some of these characters are for sure. Everything else, of course not. But I man, I agree. You're bringing up a good point about whether it's just really funny or really scary. I thought this movie was really funny because it was fun to laugh at how terrible it was. I had such a good time laughing at how stupid this movie was. But that's it. Doesn't make it good though. I just had a good time laughing, and I certainly wasn't scared.

SPEAKER_03 15:13

Okay, do you think that your laughter is attributed to laughing at how stupid the movie is or how goofy it is, or was it watching it with St. Lucy that made it so fun?

SPEAKER_02 15:26

It's a little bit of both. I think maybe more that I was able to bounce off of somebody else because when I see something like this by myself, I'm still laughing, but there's no one to talk to. What am I gonna say? Like to Cullen, like, Cullen, look at how ridiculous this movie is. It's a softcore porn. What in the sweetie taught is this? I'm he's not gonna get it. He's not gonna understand.

SPEAKER_03 15:47

My struggle is as I was watching this, I wasn't in a bad mood. I wasn't so shut down and numb that I couldn't feel anything, but I definitely was not having a fun time. I wasn't like enjoying the experience. When I lived in Virginia, occasionally Alexis and I would get together to watch movies, and the one of the first ones we ever watched together that was just her and I was fucking Leprechaun from the 90s. And boy, what an experience that was watching that movie out loud with someone else, having already seen it and it just being wild. But this is a moment where I think, damn, this would have been good to watch with someone else. This would have been good to do a fucking watch-along episode of because the riff potential on this movie is is very high. And I think part of what makes it so riffable is the fact that it is wholly lacking in originality beyond just take Chucky, take Jack Frost, make it a cookie.

SPEAKER_01 16:39

Yeah, it's pretty obvious as you're watching it. The plot is even like the intro scene and what happens to the titular character from human to cookie, it just screams, hey, somebody else did this, but why not a cookie? I feel like they were in a room somewhere messing around, half drunk, and they're just like, dude, what if we did a Christmas cookie?

SPEAKER_02 16:58

But that's the thing. To have the balls to be able to do something like that, to actually muster up the money and get Gary Beusey to do this, I have to commend you. Because what in the world? What in the world? And then for it to be, I would imagine, successful enough that movies down the line, you're gonna start battling it out with an evil bong. This is incredible. It's not original at all, but I have to commend the intestinal fortitude that it must have taken to really see this through and think that it was a great idea.

SPEAKER_03 17:32

Yeah, I think in in retrospect, what's more infuriating is thinking about I have needed a roof on my house for a long time. I've really needed it. This movie, just to pay Gary Busey, $25,000, that would be worth $38,990.67 today. I could have bought two roofs with that money, and yet they put that towards making this movie.

SPEAKER_01 17:56

That's why Gary Busey did it, probably. He needed some roofing done.

SPEAKER_02 18:00

But hold on. But how much money has that movie made since? That's the question. Have they gotten an ROI? Because sure, you could have put that towards a roof. But if you had paid Gary Busey to make this stupid ass movie and it made twice, three times, four times, five times as much afterwards, yeah, you could have had five roofs.

SPEAKER_03 18:22

And also a Ginger Dead Men movie. Okay, here's my thing. This movie is streaming free on Tubi. I'd be curious to see how much is generated in direct to video. Like, who has paid to see this movie?

SPEAKER_02 18:34

Sure. Or licensing to have the movie streamed through Tubi. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. How much are they making, really? I'm just saying, we don't know. Okay, fine, but they might have gotten some ROI. I I don't know. Not me defending this godforsaken movie. I'm just saying that it's such a stupid idea that somehow came to life, and it makes me question what I'm doing with my life. Because at the end of the day, yes, it is just literally child's play and all these other things. Instantly, the first thing that came to my mind when the movie started was in Spanish, you could watch Shrek. The gingerbread man in Shrek is ping pong. And this is just literally a fucked up ping pong, okay? That's instantly what came to my mind. I was like, holy shit, it's a fucked up ping pong that's out here killing people. But it's not even rocket science. I could have done that. All of us could have done that, and actually made it better and not really trashy.

SPEAKER_03 19:30

But here we are. One of my favorite things I've learned since meeting you Binks is this like ping pong of it all. And honestly, if we had gotten more fucked up ping pon, then maybe the ending of this movie would have been better. I think going through the whole experience, seeing things wrap up the way they do, and then the conclusion that we get, it's one of those that, like, okay, I guess I see how there's more movies after this, but also why are there more movies after this? It did not leave me with a feeling of like I want to see more.

SPEAKER_01 20:01

Very true. I think when it wraps up initially, you think, okay, we're done. This happened. Oof. And then it keeps going in a way that you didn't initially expect, and but it makes sense the second you see it, okay? And then we make it through that, and then we make it to the end, and then you're thinking, okay, we're done. Okay, maybe not. They keep doing this thing, like, but wait, there's more. And at the very end of the movie, it's not even necessarily the issue of like sequel baiting, it's more of the issue of like why? Why let the story continue continue in any way after this? You should have really capped this off.

SPEAKER_02 20:33

It's like when you've already done something so bold and so insane, and you somehow got away with it, and then you have the audacity to keep going and try, how dare you? That's what this ending is giving. Like you really said, fuck it, we ball, and you just kept bawling. You kept making all these movies. It's incredible. I will say, this ending for this particular movie though, has some of the most absurd staging and directing I have ever seen. It's so, so bad. Now we're just watching I don't even know what a a rehearsal of what could have been the ending because of how poorly acted and staged and directed and edited it was. At this point it was falling apart at the seams, but that really did have me laughing though. I don't know what it is. It was really really funny to me, it was because I was in a fevered dream at that point.

SPEAKER_03 21:26

I want to go back to what you said about the fucking level of audacity they had. We all see that in practice, serial killers start small, maybe with some animals, maybe some pets, and then they escalate, right? I feel like we were the pets, and this movie was a aspiring serial killer, and we were the fucking first victims. That's how I feel about what this movie did to us with that ending. It just kept going. It just would not be stopped. It could not be stopped, it was not relenting. And honestly, I think I only see one. Way that this movie is going to go in terms of its ratings. But before we make our way there, Mac, how would you describe the gore score?

SPEAKER_01 22:08

Surprisingly, I think it's a low. There's some moments that are good little moments of gore, but they're like Halloween store gore. And so it does, it just pretty much doesn't count. It's a low.

SPEAKER_02 22:19

And what about the animal report? If you can believe it, the ginger dead men did not harm any animals.

SPEAKER_03 22:24

Well, let's go ahead and get into our ratings. Then the Ginger Dead Man from 2005. Was it a hack or a slash?

SPEAKER_01 22:30

Calling this a total joke would give too much credit to the attempted comedy in this horror comedy. Instead of a well-baked golden brown, Ginger Dead Man came out of the oven goofy and cheesy. The acting's bad, the dialogue is bad, the story is bad, the gore is bad, and worst of all, everything from raw dough to baked good killer puppet makes me believe the filmmakers had never seen gingerbread in real life. I'm happy the runtime is so short because this is 100% a waste of time and thus it is a heck.

SPEAKER_02 23:00

This is an interesting one for me because I feel from the vibes so far, I've been not necessarily defending this movie, but having maybe a little bit more fun than the two of you, I don't know what it is. Because I certainly have not had this much fun hating a movie in a very long time. And it's known by now that Camp and I are not necessarily the best of friends, and this is exactly why. But I would be lying if I said I didn't laugh like hell and have the time of my life watching this. It was so funny to make fun of that I was fueled with joy and power. It was so great. But all that being said, I know you guys are holding your breath. It is a hack for me. But it's not as severely a hack as I thought it would be, and that's what's disturbing. But what's more disturbing is definitely the antagonist and how shitty he is. The Porto vibes are very weird. The dialogue, acting, I mean, everything is so, so bad. But you said it, Mac, it's 70 minutes. And I'd say, hell, I'd even argue, if by some chance you're with a friend, you want 70 minutes of your time to see something so terrible that you just want to shit on and have the time of your life doing so. And Sean isn't here, so I feel like he would say this. Maybe if you're into legal recreational substances and you're it's a party time, then this would be the movie to put on to just absolutely destroy. But I want to say again, it is a hack, but that's the conclusion to my very hot take scoring.

SPEAKER_03 24:41

The only time, and again, I gave this movie apparently 140 minutes of my time. The only occasion that I could recommend, or I could even begin to recommend, watching this fucking movie would be if you are in line at Halloween horror nights and you have a 70-minute wait with some fucking headphones and you and your friend want to fucking cackle together. But no, because it's a waste of your fucking battery life.

SPEAKER_02 25:08

No, that's the stuff I'm talking about. You put this on and you just spend the you won't even realize that you've been in line for 70 minutes because you're too busy making fun of how stupid this movie is. You're gonna see that the next thing you know, you're in line to go to the gingerbreom dead man haunted house. Okay? There you go.

SPEAKER_03 25:28

I said it. Nah, man. Okay, not to be someone who believes in the Disney couples who play heads up in line, but heads up in line would be a better activity than this bullshit. A thousand percent. Because here's the thing for me. I was really intrigued by the idea of this movie. I have been passionate about my love for the title Passion of the Crust for years. I wasn't sold on the look of the Ginger Dead Man alone that I've seen in gifts, but the brilliance of that title told me this could be right up my alley. And I thought long and hard about how I want to describe this movie and the experience of this movie, but I'm gonna keep it simple. This movie is like that one fucking time in 2014 where I tried making a gingerbread house without knowing what the hell I was doing. And it looked okay from a distance. It was like, oh, that thing standing up. But the second you got close, you realized what a crumbly, structurally unsound mess it is. And that is the experience of this movie. This movie is bullshit, but less in a way that's bonkers, and more in a way that's boring and just disappointing. And ultimately, Mac to go on on your vibe here with the baking of it all, it feels like a batch of cookies that you left in the oven too long, overdone, and it leaves a burned taste in your mouth that you just can't get the bad taste out. And therefore, it's a hack. But I will say, to your credit, Binks, I do have a gut feeling that this franchise gets more watchable the longer it goes on. Not this movie, probably. Again, I watched it twice. Wouldn't I fucking wish I hadn't. However, I feel like by the time we get further into the franchise, and maybe we get more ginger dead men, less fucking softcore important people, maybe it's more watchable.

SPEAKER_02 27:16

That's a lot of faith because a lot of the cast returns.

SPEAKER_03 27:18

Fuck. But passionate hacks aside, the Ginger Dead Man from 2005 has earned a universal hack. Clearly, we don't recommend you watch this movie, but if you want to fuck around and find out, check the links in our show notes to see where you can find it right now. Either way, join us in the second half though, because we have some clowning to do. We'll see you in a bit.

SPEAKER_01 27:48

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SPEAKER_03 28:50

Welcome back, folks. You are now entering the spoiler zone for the Ginger Dead Man from 2005, which has unsurprisingly earned a universal hack. Now we have a lot to unpack here, but before we dive into that bullshit, let's go through the kills.

SPEAKER_01 29:04

Okay, aside from killing any interest in gingerbread cookies, we've got eight kills in this movie. I would love to know which one of these is your favorite.

SPEAKER_02 29:14

I have been waiting for this moment because we brought up the ending, and so I would love to unpack it a little further. Brick, who first off is a complete idiot. We'll get into that in a second. But in this ending, and to his demise, there is a moment there where Sarah literally shimmies around him to open the oven door right next to him. She goes back to her spot, and then he purposely walks in front of the oven door so that he can be pushed inside of it. That is the worst piece of stage direction and editing everything, just everything. I can go on and on. I have ever seen. That is my favorite kill because it is the worst kill. Because it is so absurd. Not only do you have the gall to write got milk as the punchline, and then you guzzle a gallon of milk. I have never been more disturbed in my life. It's the guzzle for me. It's the guzzle. No, really, it was disturbing. And then you change into Gary Busey, and then you walk right in front of that oven door, knowing full damn well that she just walked past you to open it and then went back. What in the fuck is happening here?

SPEAKER_03 30:24

Okay. I can respect your decision. It's a great call out, but I also wonder if it's a failure of execution from this man's acting. Because remember, 50 fucking minutes prior, when he cuts his hand, then goes, oh, with my or he cuts his arm, then goes, Oh, let me expose this blood over the fucking ingredients upon which I'm baking. I understand that it's supposed to come off like a very quick thing, like, oh my gosh, I need some help. But it just looks like up, cut it. Now I gotta slide to the left.

SPEAKER_02 30:59

Okay, that was the stupidity that I wanted to dive into further, so let's do it just for a moment here while we are. Brick, my man. I almost said it in Spanish. You should still say it in Spanish. Okay, tremendous mied up. He's just so fucking stupid. Because he honestly was bleeding out in on top of this dough. You're mixing the dough. It's clearly turning a little bit pink, brother. And I'm gotta tell you, that's a sure sign that something ain't right here. But then you went ahead and then you baked it anyways. And I want everyone to think about what if? That's fucking crazy. That this man baked the dough anyways with a bleeding arm, and what if you were eating that dough later on?

SPEAKER_01 31:40

In many foodstuffs in the US, there's an acceptable percentage of human DNA, specifically hot dogs, come to mind.

SPEAKER_03 31:46

Don't ruin this.

SPEAKER_01 31:47

You know, so maybe you would actually be okay.

SPEAKER_03 31:49

We don't need the blood of a killer. This is the dough of a killer, Mac. I just had a hot dog 24 hours ago.

SPEAKER_01 31:54

Percentage-wise, you're probably okay. I mentioned this earlier. I have trouble just with the dough of it all, because gingerbread, when it's a dough, is still dark brown. Like not chocolate brown, but it's like medium to dark brown. It looks like cookie dough. It makes no sense that this is, first of all, white dough. It's obviously like a sugar cookie dough or something. And so we can see the strawberry swirl they threw in there. It's just not good. And brick, no matter what the dough looks like, is absolutely, as you said, absolutely an idiot. I I think there's I think there's a lot more interesting kills we get though. Although that is a commendable one to choose.

SPEAKER_03 32:30

Yeah. I actually want to go for my favorite, which is look at me, I'm Lorna Dean stepping into a fucking booby trap and getting a knife to the goddamn head. What the fuck are y'all doing? However, shout out to your girl for telling them not to open the fucking oven to begin with.

SPEAKER_01 32:48

She wasn't wrong. She wasn't wrong. And that kill is the kind of kill I would expect from a gingerbread man, right? Because he's small, he's not as nimble as other killers. He's gonna need to use technology in some sort of way. And so we should have gotten legitimately at least 10 kills using some sort of trap. Why did we not?

SPEAKER_03 33:10

Now here's the crossover I need. Reverse home alone this shit. Give me McCoy Culkin as Kevin, and give me the ginger dead man facing off against each other, taking turns trapping each other. Or and then add the fucking collector in, add jigsaw. Give me like a clash of the trap making titans. That's the shit I want to see.

SPEAKER_02 33:30

I'm just trying to wrap my head around the fact that a gingerbread man would be smarter than a human being. Or and ultimately he was, actually. Now that I think about it, he actually was. In this movie, he was. They were probably trying to make a blonde joke, which is a layer I don't like at all. I will say, Lorna though, she also had just finished saying not to go out there, and then 0.5 seconds later was like, I'm heading out of there. Ma'am, what happened?

SPEAKER_03 33:56

Yeah, well, you didn't even listen to your own advice. Hey. She probably remembered, wait, we're not actually trapped here. I could just walk outside and be fine.

SPEAKER_02 34:05

Also, she definitely moving on to another kill, actually. She definitely didn't give a single fuck about her dad getting hit by a car.

SPEAKER_03 34:12

She gave a little bit of a fuck. I think she saw him and then she came in and then stopped giving a fuck.

SPEAKER_02 34:18

No, no, we're not gonna accept that. She gave zero fucks because she was like, oh, this is sad. Hey, damn, let me get that ring though.

SPEAKER_03 34:26

But here's the thing. I think she was this movie's version of giving a fuck. That's the sad part. And that tells you everything. Exactly. And that tells you everything.

SPEAKER_01 34:37

All the characters reacted that way, though. Honestly, every time they saw a body, or at least what they thought was a dead body, they were just kind of like, oh no, I guess they're dead. Oh, that's a bummer. Like, literally, a relative is shown on screen dying or dead, and they're just kind of like, well, leave them. We gotta go over here now. I do want to throw in a ninth kill. It's a bonus kill because it's a kill that happens, but it's undone. And that is the ginger dead man himself in cookie form. This was probably my favorite of the entire movie because he gets taken out by getting eaten, and they went into way more detail. Way more detail than we needed. Like there's flesh inside of that cookie, and there's blood all over Brick's face. And then Brick gulps as he swallows it down. And it was like, bro, you just had to spit it out. You chopped his head off with your teeth, just spit it over on the other side. You have to eat it. And he just he acted like it was his mom's prized sugar cookies, and he just gulped it.

SPEAKER_02 35:30

But that's what I'm saying. That's when he says, got milk, and I'm like, How dare you? And then he guzzled that bitch. He guzzled the fucking milk down. I have never been more disturbed in my life than watching someone not only eat a fleshy gingerbread cookie, but also taking down a gallon of whole milk, I'm sure. And that is criminal.

SPEAKER_01 35:57

He has his name, his wrestling name, but that he needs to change it to the gingerbread gobbler because that dude just didn't, he didn't even look at it. He was just chewing. The ginger dead man gets taken out in a very, I think, just really graphic way. And it compared to all the rest of the kills, it probably brought 90% of the gore in this movie.

SPEAKER_02 36:15

I just wish that it had been spread out a little bit evenly because I wanted the gore, but I don't think I wanted that. That was nasty. But more importantly, how ridiculous is it that a small cookie took out so many people and all it took was for you to have the balls to grab them and eat them. And I agree, at the very least, spit them out. But what?

SPEAKER_03 36:40

Yeah. It's honestly giving the same paradox as Chucky. How's his little doll taking everybody out when all you gotta do is punt them?

SPEAKER_02 36:47

But the thing is that a doll, okay, yeah, because that's ridiculous, and it's plastic, and what the hell's happening here? This is a cookie, okay? This is a freaking cookie. What are we talking about here? This is where I was like, wait a second, when I saw that cookie and I was like, at what point is he gonna get bigger? Is he gonna get bigger? No, he never got bigger. He is holding a whole ass knife that I promise you is heavier than him.

SPEAKER_03 37:08

Now that I think about it, the animal report could have been fucking terrible if a dog ate this cookie, because then the dog would just get possessed.

SPEAKER_02 37:15

Yeah, and then we'd have a cujo type of situation here.

SPEAKER_03 37:19

Oh, fuck. And that's so sad. Ginger dead man ate. All dogs go to hell. Terrible. Thinking about the gore, thinking about how this ginger dead man looks, I actually want to take a moment to acknowledge what I thought were the best visuals in this movie. What was the best thing to look at? And it really comes down to two things that I think carry the weight of this entire movie. One, the ginger dead man's red bow tie. Just that one piece alone. Excellent stuff. Terrific. It's tight, it's red, it's giving season, it's really pulling the whole look together. And I think that was honestly the best aspect of his character design. A lot of this movie is pure trash. However, there is a brief glimpse that we get of the pitter patter of the ginger dead man's feet as he runs through the smoke when he initially escapes. Those 15 frames, immaculate. Fucking loved it.

SPEAKER_01 38:14

Oh boy, this is difficult. And I'm gonna pull a binx here. I'm gonna call something my favorite because it's so bad. There's a shot of the Ginger Dead man holding a gun at the climax of the movie. When he fires the gun, there's clearly a human finger in frame that you can see pulling the trigger. It's clear. You might have to pause it, but if I've mentioned it and you look for it now, you'll easily see it. It's so over the top with how bad it is. I wish they did more of that on purpose. Make it extra campy. Make it clear that this is goofy, but do it deliberately, and I would be more sold. To see that finger reaching and pull the trigger while this puppet is touching the gun was wow, chef's kiss.

SPEAKER_02 38:52

Man, I don't even know what to pick. So I'm gonna go a little superficial and typical for myself. Perhaps the best visual for me, although his character is absolutely terrible.

SPEAKER_03 39:05

I just fucking knew you were gonna say some guy is vaguely fucking attractive. Of course.

SPEAKER_02 39:11

Are you talking about Amos? No, of course not. Although you reminded me I have a fun fact about him. Okay, so now we're here. Amos, no, is not attractive to me. However, he is a supermodel. So this is his film debut or something to that effect, but he's actually he was like a very popular model. I think he was like on VH1 or something like that. So he's a supermodel. So let's start there. That's not even who I was gonna talk about, though. I was gonna talk about Jonathan Chase, who is Brick, because he has aged fantastically. And I knew that I recognized him from somewhere, and I grew up watching what was at the time UPN, and there was this show called One on One, and he was one of the love interests there towards the very end, and I discovered that he's actually from Florida. He's from Broward County, not too far from here. So I'm just saying. Thanks for reaching deeper to find something worthwhile in this movie. Thanks. But while we're here though, I gotta, I gotta shout out a funny moment though that was so terrible. Because you're right, Max. Sometimes my favorite visuals can be something that's so bad, it's good. The sign of the bakery. It's fucking ridiculous. It's terrible. The B, like the capital B, it's it was so big that the whole sign itself was giving, like, oh fuck, I made the B too big, so now I have to squeeze the rest of the letters in to fit. That's what that banner was giving.

SPEAKER_03 40:30

Oh, it's like no spatial recognition or planning at all. Whatsoever. It's me making a sign. Well, I wasn't gonna say that. Give yourself some credit. No, I am terrible at those things. This is why I chose graphic design instead of handcrafts.

SPEAKER_02 40:45

Okay. Well, the art department there was like, I don't know, someone's neighbor, and they were like, fuck it. Just write this in paint. And that's what happened.

SPEAKER_01 40:55

It honestly feels like, okay, this little family-owned bakery is sitting there wondering why they're not successful anymore. It's like, look at your sign. That's why. But you didn't need competition. You're your own worst enemy.

SPEAKER_03 41:05

I just think about this bakery existing. Let's pretend for a second that it exists in this universe. This would be the spot where all the graphic designers who are trying to expand their portfolio say, please let me rebrand you. I'm begging you, please let me re rebrand you. Or a little mom and pop shop that like might be doing really well locally, but has a terrible fucking website. No fucking marketing, no sense of brand identity or awareness of who they are. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:32

But then again, probably for the best because they have someone making the cookies and putting their blood in all the dough.

unknown 41:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:41

Terrible. Oh my gosh. Honestly, this movie is riddled with bullshit. But I also want to just call out real quick another absurd visual here, which is the power going out as a ginger dead man is being baked. He's going from gingerbread to ginger dead. And we have those weird fucking stock effects on top of everything. We get the fucking fireworks and the sparkles. It honestly was so absurd. Honestly, had they gone harder the rest of the movie, it could have been charming. But this was one dose of like, ha, let me throw all my seasoning here. And then it's like, okay, well, you didn't fucking stir the pot. You didn't even it out.

SPEAKER_01 42:22

Oh man, I actually commented on those effects while watching it, and they are so cheese and it's so bad. I I'll agree with you though, if they had just leaned into it, lean into the low budget look, people like that when you're deliberate about it. That's a good point. Okay, but let me tell you about my favorite scene because there's not many. I can say that much. But I do like the climax scene, right? Where Brick turns into a zombie or whatever the heck he is, and everyone's all together in one room. I just like the lead up to like eating the cookie. That was interesting. They did a little teamwork there, it was nice because as soon as the cookie got thrown to him, I don't know if they exactly how it happened, but Ginger Dead Man comments because he realized he's done. As soon as they caught him, however it is that they caught him, one human hand on him is enough. And he's no longer a threat. And I just loved that because the entire movie, nobody tried, and now they finally have, and it's game over.

SPEAKER_02 43:14

But you bring up such a good point because my favorite scene is the mom who is drunk off her ass and clearly seeing a gingerbread man and so confused, and then she gets her finger cut off again by a a cookie holding a knife that is obviously way bigger than him, and somehow also has the strength to cut off a finger. Yo, I I would think that I'm off my ass too, and I was drunk as fuck as well seeing some shit because absolutely apparently it does take one hand to take the cookie down, but apparently the mom was too drunk enough to do it because she got her freaking finger to taken off. It's incredible. It's so stupid.

SPEAKER_03 43:54

She was a fragile old lady, it doesn't take much. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 43:57

Honestly, though, I mean, later on when we get Jimmy Dean getting killed by his own car. How? Like step to the side.

SPEAKER_02 44:04

Can we talk about that scene for a second? I know we're not doing kills, but let's just give me a moment. Because they really thought that we wouldn't question how the fuck that little cookie was driving that car. They tried to say, oh, it's because of look at the little the pinwheel, you know, he's using as the pinwheel. Regardless, brother, that pinwheel is how fucking massive for a little cookie to somehow control the pinwheel to the gas pedal with its smushy, moist little you see, damn it, I use the word. I'm sorry, friends, for listening. But using its little leg to push the thing down, but then also somehow being able to see out the window, like, come on, what is happening here? No way. It can't drive that car.

SPEAKER_03 44:51

Okay. Scenes, not a lot of great ones here. As I consider what a favorite could be, it's the blood contamination scene for as dumb as it fucking is, because of this reason and this reason only. Could you imagine seasoning being packed loose in a box? Because this motherfucker opens the box, tips the box, and there's no bag in there. It's just flour or seasoning coming straight out of a fucking cardboard box. Could you imagine that? Just a straight up shipping box, throw some seasoning in there, mail it off to its location, to its destination. And I think that little bit of it before the rest of the movie gets even worse. That was a moment where I was like, oh, this might be a funny movie. Like it could be packed with a few little moments that maybe it's gonna get me. But I think that good faith was immediately lost with the blood contamination, and then even further lost when our two women are fighting each other while the gingerbread man cooks. It was giving catfight energy, and I absolutely hated that. It was also some of the worst running I've ever seen in the movie. You know those TikToks where people are saying, like, could I survive Michael Myers or like me in a scary movie? And it's like someone walking very slowly and then they're being very dramatic, throwing themselves on the floor, can't unlock the door. I'll I'll link a couple examples in the show notes. That's what that moment was reminding me of, and it wasn't even as funny.

SPEAKER_01 46:16

There's nothing like a good box of spice. Feels good. I think all of these scenes really show us how stupid these characters are, just how bad they are. They're just don't really use their brains for the most part. And it's strange because I feel like they could and still be threatened by a gingerbread cookie, but really they just always say stupid things and make horrible decisions. This entire film, right from the very first scene.

SPEAKER_02 46:40

Or even just prioritizing the most ridiculous things. For example, the two of them fighting, like the two girls fighting. Ladies, please maybe take pay attention to what's happening in the freaking kitchen because you're about to get your ass beat by a cookie. And then more importantly, let's start again from the beginning. Sarah, our main character. I'm sorry, but I would never ever talk about my brother in the way that she does. Let's start, please. This is the beginning of the softcore porn, okay? Because the way that she is crying and sad because it would have been her brother's birthday. Alright, I feel that. But it's the part when she says he would have been spent it at the titty bar. I would never, I could never, ever say those words about my brother. Never in my life would I ever say that. What? That was bizarre. But that was giving softcore porn. That was corn hub alert. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:40

It's not her stepbrother.

SPEAKER_02 47:41

I'm sorry. If anyone that I knew that was relatively close to, not even like a family member, right? If my guy best friend had passed away or something like that, I still wouldn't be like, today would have been his birthday. He would have been spending it at the titty bar. What? What in the fuck? So weird. And then throughout the course of the movie, we're talking, I mean, her mom has already lost a finger. Things have already gone down, okay? There is clearly a possessed cookie running around your bakery, alright? But go off and make out with Amos a little bit, alright? Go off and start whispering sweet nothings like you're giving OnlyFans. Go ahead. Do your thing, girl. Go, you do it.

SPEAKER_01 48:23

It was really strange that she fell so quickly in love with that skid mark. I mean, he's giving future juggalo. That's the vibe I'm picking up from this dude. And he's trying to play it off as like, I'm the bad boy at this town. I'm always in jail or whatever. It's like your shorts are like nearly three-quarters length. What's going on there? You got the wallet chain going on, not sure what's happening with the hair do here. He's not giving bad boy, not at all. He's giving bad decisions. That's all I'm getting.

SPEAKER_03 48:48

And I think his accent changed like twice in the movie. It changed a few times, but don't worry, because he spent more time in lockup than she has making cookies.

SPEAKER_01 48:57

See, this is when Camp would have worked out really well if she had been like, eh, we didn't really start doing cookies till this year. We usually stuck to bread and cakes. That would have been like a funny retort. Missed opportunity instead. She's like, Yeah, oh, you're such a bad boy.

SPEAKER_03 49:10

Mac, this entire fucking movie is a missed opportunity. Is it a missed opportunity for Gary Busey? Maybe not. I think this actually, when I look at his IMDB credits, I've seen very little of his work. Other things that I've seen of him, maybe this was one of his better performances. And I say that not because the movie is good, but because he has some great one-liners.

SPEAKER_01 49:35

They could have given him, I think, some a little bit a little bit edgier. Not thanks killing level edgier, but we could have gotten just a bit funnier with some of them. I was truly hoping for a lot of baking puns. We got a couple, so that was nice.

SPEAKER_03 49:46

Yeah, it was really the moment where he starts to square off with the rat that I thought, this is him, this is his prime. I see now what the vision was.

SPEAKER_02 49:54

I picked purposely this gif for our notion card for our episode where he says, Eat me, you punk bitch. Because that was at least a moment where I was like, damn, am I gonna like this movie? Because that's pretty funny.

SPEAKER_03 50:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:09

But that was about it. It reeks of potential. So I do agree. I wish we had a little bit more. But just a quick moment. What about all the other characters that were in this film? Are they okay? What happened to them? Are they ever gonna recover? Because I think about her friend who also was just man, there's nothing more infuriating than the typical Latina who is just so obnoxious and is portrayed as like the one who is just sexualized all the time. She was covered in frosting with cherries on her nipples, literally shaking like crazy while her best friend is making out with this guy. Could care less. But all of a sudden, next thing you know, she awakens out of nowhere and she's just fine. And quite frankly, I mean, really, she's the one that helped him push him in the oven, anyways. So maybe you guys need to revisit your friendship, truly. There's something not okay there.

SPEAKER_03 51:05

Yeah, it's giving we're co-workers who act like we're friends, but at the end of the day, you're true color show and you don't give a fuck about each other. And then mom is just a wreck.

SPEAKER_02 51:14

Everybody needs help in that movie, without a doubt. The entire vision of this movie needs help. That's for sure. But I'll tell you one thing. As far as the best part of this movie, I gotta say, it is the runtime. Because honestly, any longer than 70 minutes exactly on the dot, and I think it would have went from I'm having fun making fun of this to insufferable.

SPEAKER_03 51:36

It hit insufferable territory pretty early for me. So I I wish I could align with you there. I am glad it isn't longer. That feels good. I think Lorna telling them and insisting on not opening the oven felt like a good moment for me. I think overall though, Gary Busey is actually the best part of this movie because his one-liners and the delivery of those one-liners, like it sure ain't the Pillsbury fucking doughboy. Amazing. This I want more of. Fuck the rest of these people. I don't care about their love triangle. I don't give a shit about the economic crisis of this town. I don't care about this fucking bakery being sold off to Jimmy Dean's tractors. I don't give a shit. I do give a shit about the ginger dead man.

SPEAKER_01 52:19

You know what? It's interesting you mentioned the ginger dead man because the best part of the movie for me was when he sounds like the parrot in recent memes or cockatiels, or I forget which bird it is, but he says, what the fuck? And it is so entertaining for a split second, just like the way he says it, his level of shock, of surprise, it sounds exactly like these recent parrot bird cockatiel videos, and I and I just I don't know, it's like hits. That's the kind of comedy they needed to sprinkle throughout the movie, and they just didn't. And as good as that moment was, even as silly as it seemed for a split second, I have no interest in watching any more of it. I know that they're sequels and I know we have to get to them one day, but I just can't see myself indulging in this treat any longer.

SPEAKER_03 53:04

Listen, I might skip straight to Passion of the Crust. Maybe Saturday Night Cleaver, maybe, but the evil bong of it all I'm not looking forward to. I'm never watching this movie again. Fuck that. No. If we do a rewind, I got great notes. I'll listen back to this episode. I'm sure the feelings still stand, the sentiment will last the test of time. But I've already watched this movie twice, and that was two times too many.

SPEAKER_02 53:29

I had such a fun time making fun of this movie that I want to encapsulate it forever. My my friend Lucy that I did see this with, she's moving back home. She's from Croatia, and so it was a nice little moment that I will forever remember as one of the last things we did together before she moved back home. So I think I'm gonna keep it like that. If I ever rewatch this movie in the future, know that it is gotta be under some particular circumstances, like I described in my scoring. But I gotta say, after we watched this, we looked at each other and we're like, do we really want to keep watching the next one? And I had to stop where I said, nope, because we're going to have to review it. And I don't want to have to see it twice. So I'm gonna wait until we do Passion of the Crust, and that's gonna be my first viewing experience. I want it to be fresh, I want it to be well baked, and we'll keep going from there.

SPEAKER_03 54:22

I hope it's well baked because this shit right here is giving stale. And there you have it, folks. The Ginger Dead Man from 2005 hazard a healthy universal hack. Now, we've had a robust discussion here, we've talked a lot of trash, and that trash talk does not end here by any means.

SPEAKER_02 54:41

No, we certainly want to know what you think of this very fascinatingly underwhelming and underbaked movie. How would you react if you were faced with a killer gingerbread man? That's what I need to know. You can let us know by joining in on the conversation by hanging out with us for free in our Discord. Click the link in our show notes to sign up.

SPEAKER_01 54:58

If you've enjoyed listening to this episode, consider sending me some gingerbread cookies. No, just kidding. Consider becoming one of our patrons, though. Visit patreon.com slash hackerslash to enjoy more of the show with early access, extended episodes, bonus content, and live shows.

SPEAKER_03 55:12

We'll see you next time, folks. And remember, $50,000 goes a long way at Walmart.

SPEAKER_01 55:17

You're kitty kitty.