312: Winnie the Pooh: Blood and Honey (2023)

SPEAKER_02 0:04

Oh shit. They're besties.

SPEAKER_01 0:13

Greetings and salutations, and welcome to the new year with Hacker Slash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. Come and get it, Piggy. If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack, a total joke, a waste of time, or a slash. Totally killer, pun intended. We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, we write movies where the perspective we've gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast, and this week I'm joined by the Paranormal Paramour Binks. Who? Are you girls on drugs? While January 1st marks the start of a new year, it also marks the day copyrights expire and enter the public domain. And we're kicking off 2024 by commemorating this occasion and checking out a film that serves as a reinterpretation of a story we thought we knew. On January 1st, 2022, the first novel of an iconic children's story entered the public domain. While the Walt Disney Company retained the rights to the depiction of its characters in their franchise, filmmaker Reese Frick Waterfield began developing his own horror adaptation of the novel. The concept was met with divided reactions and controversy, but the overall intrigue of its premise resulted in earning more than $5 million during its limited theatrical run, despite low ratings and reviews. The film is a tale of abandonment and the extremes of survival. It serves as an exploration of the intersection between the childhood warmth of nostalgia and the macabre of feral instincts. This week we're talking about Winnie the Pooh, Blood and Honey. Have you seen this before, Binks?

SPEAKER_02 1:47

I have, which is a little wild because I watched it a few months ago for the first time. Thought, you know what, let's just go for it. I'm in a silly goofy mood. We're not gonna review this, I don't think, or at least not anytime soon. I know that we originally were going to review it when it was in theaters, which is a crazy statement to say, but uh I figured, you know what, it'll probably be sometime. Let me watch it now. And then lo and behold, here we are, the start of the year.

SPEAKER_01 2:14

Yeah, I remember fondly the time at which we were going to originally review this. We had it in the lineup for a while, and then the theatrical release was so limited, it conflicted with every schedule imaginable. We just could not catch a break trying to go watch this movie. God, that was wild.

SPEAKER_02 2:33

We really tried to make it work. The I think it was really down to the theaters that they were having it at, the show times were insane. Like we we just were not gonna be able to sleep if we were doing that same-day release.

SPEAKER_01 2:45

It absolutely was gonna be completely brutal. I put off watching this movie and really going into it, I had heard so much about it. I had heard one, oh, it's probably hilarious, but two, the people who I knew at work who were looking forward to watching something that was so bad it's good, all said it was pure trash and to just not watch it. I think about back to when we saw the trailer. We had the Winnie the Pooh situation and we had the mean one phenomenon. I think we can all remember these things, right? The mean one really had art the clown energy going for it. We thought, man, it's gotta be great. At the very least, he's gonna be great. But I remember watching the trailer for this and thinking, okay, but this actually looks good. I'm not saying like quality of the actual movie as a whole, but the cinematography looked good. It looked like there were people with talent behind this movie. I had a little bit of optimism.

SPEAKER_02 3:41

Yeah, me as well. I I saw the trailer and I was a little impressed by how Pooh looked and just the vibe of it. It could have been just really, really bad if it was like a small little bear type situation, which now in hindsight, having seen a couple films that we reviewed, really could have been, which is scary.

SPEAKER_01 4:01

Having not watched this movie, at least when we origin when it originally came out, let me tell you when I actually watched it, and I need people to know this because I also need to acknowledge that my perspective on this movie, well, I don't think it's unfair. I do think it's a little bit skewed. It found its way into my life at a critical point and nestled itself into my heart in a very specific way. Let me set the stage for you. My grandmother passed away last year. This happened in May of last year, and it was a random Wednesday that I was off, and I went up to her house, and it turned out to be the last day that she was with us. She died the next morning, and it was just super sad. She wasn't drinking any water, she was not in a great way. And I remember my sister finally came over to the house. She was gonna spend the night with her. My cousin had come home for work, and it was just a day of emotional exhaustion, and even though I didn't realize that she was gonna go the very next day, it was this wash over me of like there isn't long left. And I was starting to process it. And then my cousin, Mikey, was like, I bought this fucking Winnie the Pooh movie. You want to watch it? Of all things, and it was literally just that we wanted something dumb to laugh at to distract ourselves from how sad we were. And it was there on that couch that I started watching this movie while my mom was getting my sister settled. I had already gone uh in and moved my grandmother around, and we stopped the movie, we didn't finish it that night, but then I went and said goodbye to my grandmother, and that was the last activity I had in that house when she was there, and it's just like a weird thing for me.

SPEAKER_02 5:38

I remembered now. I was just as you were telling the story, I realized, yeah, this is exactly when this happened. I remember you shared with us that you had seen it that day. It's funny how that works out because for me, obviously, you know, listeners know I also lost my grandfather last year. But the last thing that I saw before he passed was the latest season of You. So different energy, I'd say, because at least Winnie the Pooh, Blood and Honey, it's camp. It's ridiculous. It's a little bit more on the lighthearted in a very interesting way. I mean, I can see what the vibe was, right? I don't know what my mother and I were trying to do watching you, but that's really just tells you a lot about who we are as people.

SPEAKER_01 6:20

Honestly, I love this for us beings. I'm glad we've bonded in this very special way.

SPEAKER_02 6:26

Absolutely. Very traumatic, but nonetheless, it's very interesting.

SPEAKER_01 6:30

But let me say this: this movie was super successful in the moment at distracting me from a lot of my pain because this is a movie that expecting it to be terrible, I found myself actually kind of getting into for a while there. And maybe my mind, maybe my heart was desperate, who knows? But going through the experience of this movie, I found myself feeling some level of surprise about what they did with certain characters. But then I also found myself thinking, wow, this feels like it has so many nods to some of my favorite horror movies. Now, it's camp. You just said it, Binks. So it does it in a very ridiculous way, honestly, an absurd way. And I don't think it's a way that's good for everyone, but it did scratch a very particular itch.

SPEAKER_02 7:17

Look, I'm right there with you because when I first saw this film, it's like on a random Thursday night, I'm sure, was with a friend. I was like, you know what? Let's just watch Winnie the Pooh. I think afterwards we watched Bay of the Blood, or maybe it was before then. So it was definitely a weird movie night for sure. But it it does scratch a weird itch because uh in a way, this movie isn't nearly as bad as you expect it to be, and that's maybe a bit of an alarming problem. And I'll start by saying this as I was re-watching this film, I realized this uh film knows that it's ridiculous. Let's cut to the chase, okay? Right from the jump, it just hits you with setting the scene, gives you the tone that the movie's gonna have to be in for you to understand that this is Winnie the Pooh and his friends and they're not so friendly. It's just very like, let's get it out of the way. And one of the things that I have to say that solidifies its camp is the amount of tits and like obnoxious reveal of nipple in a way.

SPEAKER_01 8:24

It's just absurd. We're four days into the new year, and I already have potentially the 2024 winner for didn't need to see nip. I also thought the same.

SPEAKER_02 8:34

I wrote it down as a note because what? Anyways, that just already tells you, like again, it knows what it is, it recognizes that it's being silly, so let's just get all of these other checkboxes out of the way. Let's make it a short film, let's set the scene, let's give you the nip. The eyes are rolling back. I'm like, this is absurd. So they these are all these feelings that I expected, but then why is it that it wasn't too, too bad?

SPEAKER_01 9:01

It's because it hits a nice tight 120, and by that I mean it's an hour and 20 minutes, not 120 minutes cumulatively. So two hours of watching a movie that could be shitty. So it knows what it's doing, and that's what I respect about this movie. I think it it's also at a level of charm because this movie was made for less than $100,000. So it's low budget as fuck, right? Right. And we think about other low budget films that we've seen, and something that can work in a lot of them is when they spend their money wisely, when they have good talent to patch up and shore up certain areas where they need to win, like critical areas of the movie. And then there are other movies, No Shade to Ginger Dead Men, where it may blow its load into one major category, and then what can it afford the rest of the way? You know what I mean? So I think the balance and the fiscal responsibility of this movie is something that feels apparent, even though it's still an indie low-budget horror movie that feels like an indie low-budget horror movie.

SPEAKER_02 10:03

And honestly, that kind of leads me to my disappointment yet understanding when it comes to this film. Because I think for me, already going into this, I'm wanting to see the whole kit and caboodle in terms of the Winnie Pooh and the clan. I'm wanting to see every single one of those motherfuckers. And I'm gonna set the expectation right now. I'm gonna break it to you, everyone's hearts. You can also see it in the synopsis, but there is not the whole clan in this first film. Okay, it is Pooh and Piglet. And just gonna say it to you now. Don't get excited, don't hope for the best and hope that you're gonna see everybody you're not. And it is because, okay, it's a low-budget film. Like you can only do so much, right? In terms of costuming, I would imagine, in terms of hiring more actors and more prosthetics and all these things to be able to have all of these other characters. I mean, Pooh has a whole friend group. There's a lot of them, motherfuckers. Okay. So I don't know what I was expecting, but I was hoping. Now, granted, that's at the time. Now that there's a sequel, who knows, right? Now I can be a little bit more hopeful.

SPEAKER_01 11:11

We're confirmed to have other characters in the movie. It has a significantly larger budget.

SPEAKER_02 11:18

Right. There we go. So that's why I'm saying disappointment, but understanding. I really wanted to see everybody else, just because, like, at this point, give me everyone, and I'm a little impatient, but I understand that you gotta build up. And in some ways, Reese Frake definitely was gambling. He knew that he was like, all right, I'm gonna give it what I can with the money that I've got and hope that it's enough to be able to give me all the other characters too.

SPEAKER_01 11:44

Okay, I feel you. I can understand going into this, and you're thinking about Pooh Bear, we need the Pooh Bear, and you think about all his brunch-going friends. Honestly, Woody Pooh has more friends than me. I know, it just hit me now that Pooh is like, he's got so many friends. He's a popular guy.

SPEAKER_02 12:01

Not only does he have so many friends, but like they brunch hard. Mm-hmm. Wow, just hit me now. Sorry, go on.

SPEAKER_01 12:07

I see your disappointment and I match you, but in a different way. I knew that it was just Pooh and Piglet. The synopsis says it's just Pooh and Piglet. So I didn't have that going against me. But what was really interesting to me is how they used other characters. And it felt as though, and this is a surprise and then a disappointment, it felt as though they went a specific direction and then couldn't stick the landing and couldn't commit to a vision that I think would have been stronger for what to do with a particular character. And it's a creative choice, it's their movie. I don't know any better, but I was not satisfied with what they do with a central character. We probably disagree on that. Maybe, but we'll see. That disappointment aside, this movie doesn't do a damn thing that's scary. But if you have a fear of like anthropomorphic creatures, you might be a little bit spooked. It might be a little uncomfy.

SPEAKER_02 13:02

Yeah, I'd say so. And that's really the point though. They're definitely intimidating-ish. Can't wait to get into my theories a little bit about that. They're a little startling in some scenes, without a doubt. It's maybe some of the kills and the gore, it might get you. I wouldn't say that this is a film that I would suggest to people going into horror per se, or that are like the audience that's like, I don't really watch horror just because of the kills and the gore. It doesn't have jump scares, though. I think it's really about them and how intimidating they are. I agree with you. If you got a phobia of that kind of stuff, definitely stay away. If it's a little bit unsettling and weird, it might unsettle you a bit. But in general, this movie's not meant to be frightening because it already knows that the premise is absurd. So you're really watching this movie just to see what the hell these two are gonna be up to.

SPEAKER_01 13:56

What the filmmakers have said is their goal was to ruin your childhood. While it's not meant to be super frightening, listen, they do push Pooh Bear to the extreme. They do some fucked up shit. Oh, yeah. There is a lot of Gorons and some grossness here. And so I think this is a really good experience if you're watching this as a group of friends who are already into horror to some degree, but this probably would not be the one that I would show someone who's easily scared by movies or grossed out by movies and also hasn't seen a horror movie since they were like a fucking kid. 100%.

SPEAKER_02 14:31

It's not funny enough to warrant that. I think if this movie was also more of that comedic style, because again, I said camp, but what I've gathered about this lovely genre that is camp is that there has to be a lot of jokes, a lot of leaning into the humor dialogue that establishes that. And this doesn't have that per se. So I wouldn't even recommend it to someone that's like it's not that they get scared by horror films, they're just usually not ones to watch it. I wouldn't recommend it because I feel like if they lean themselves more to humor, action, that kind of stuff, I don't know if it really balances out on those playing fields either.

SPEAKER_01 15:12

Yeah, this movie really is one where the girls who get it get it, and then girls who don't, don't. And if you don't get it, you're not gonna be into it at all. But even just thinking about what I said earlier, right? If you're a group of friends who already is really into horror, I think you're gonna see a lot of that in this movie. Listen, popular children's tale or story goes to the public domain, gets converted to a horror movie. We've seen that. We've Pinocchio, we have Humpty Dumpty, we have so many other fucking movies. That in itself is not original. Even within this movie, I'm gonna list a few movies for you that I was reminded of. Friday the 13th, part three, Halloween Kills, Halloween Four, Wrong Turn, Candyman, The Texas Chainsaw Massacre, and Star Wars. I'm not saying that this movie is original, but it does get credit for having some fucking audacity and some nerve. Star Wars. Interesting. It's one particular moment that I cannot wait to unpack with you.

SPEAKER_02 16:10

Interesting. So one particular moment, okay, I agree that there is definitely a craze going on right now, in the last year, year and a half, when it comes to these adaptations. And we mentioned it, right? We've got the Grinch with the mean one. We have even more recently, It's a Wonderful Life with It's a Wonderful Knife. Like these kinds of childhood stories and tales and things that are definitely being adapted. So that part is not original per se. It's just really a trend that is coming on back up again. Now, what I will say is original enough and pretty interesting is that they have the audacity. And I think that that is enough because when it comes to Disney in particular, like Disney properties, it seems like it has been a long time since we've gotten a horror adaptation to a Disney property.

SPEAKER_01 17:03

Absolutely, because Disney digs its claws in deep. That mouse has a fucking heroic strength and it's not releasing it, right? But this movie does a really good job of playing the side of operating within the confines of that copyright law, which I can respect. And again, I said it wasn't original, and that's not to discredit the movie. It's just so you don't go in thinking, hey, this is about to be the freshest shit I ever seen. I feel like this is something where someone goes in and they're going in a little bit blind. If you're the kind of person who kind of leans pessimistic, you might think, oh, this is so cheesy. I've seen this before. That's part of it though. Yes, you have seen it before, but you haven't seen it with Winnie the Pooh. Exactly. And Winnie the Pooh is different, and Winnie the Pooh is enough. He is enough.

SPEAKER_02 17:49

I have a feeling your earlier statement about the characters has a little bit to do with maybe the ending. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:57

Just a smidge. Let me tell you, what wasn't enough was the ending for me. Wild. Wild. I have the polar opposite opinion. I should specify though, that there are things that happen in the ending where I'm like, yeah, that's great. But it's what we finally walk away with. And I'm not saying that it was terrible, but I am saying that I didn't have the same level of satisfaction as the rest of the movie. And I found myself wanting a different outcome. And I do feel like that outcome would have made me feel better about the movie.

SPEAKER_02 18:28

Man, Chris, I have to say the ending for me is really the polar opposite because the ending is probably my only favorite part of the film because of how shocking it was. Like you don't expect it to go down the way that it does. I I can see what you're saying, but I don't know. I think that's what makes it fascinating. And like, I don't know, it riled me up a little bit, finally. I really wasn't expecting it. Definitely wasn't expecting the brutality even at the very end. And this is me going back to what I was saying in terms of Frank Waterfield like gambling a little bit on this whole movie, especially on the ending. Like he really just said, fuck it. I hope this goes well because here we are. And he won. He's getting his sequel. He's doing a whole freaking w franchise at this point, which is cool. But I think that was a bold decision to make for this kind of film.

SPEAKER_01 19:19

Yeah, it's a bold take and not one that I can disrespect. I just didn't like it. That's fair. Which is fine. Like it is what it is, right? It wasn't enough to change my opinion on the entire movie. And that's what it really comes down to. But I do feel like, oh, I wish it was different.

SPEAKER_02 19:37

And that's where we can align because it also was not enough to change my opinion on the whole entire movie. But I thought it was great. I remember when that ending hit, I looked to my friend and I was like, oh shit, maybe this is a good thing that we have polar opposite reactions, especially with what goes down. I can't wait for us to spoil it and talk about it further.

SPEAKER_01 19:58

Wow. Okay, now I'm suddenly very clear on where this is going for our ratings. But before we actually score this movie, Binks, how would you describe the gore score?

SPEAKER_02 20:07

There is certainly no shortage of blood here, that's for sure. And we do have some pretty gnarly kills, despite about two-thirds of them not really being fully seen. And what I mean by that is like some of them are hidden in dark shadows or they're at a distance. So there's that part. But when channeling my inner Sean, I like to believe that he would say this is about a medium gore score, and that's really because the CGI for some of the gore is just absolutely horrendous. Ooh, but what about the animal report? Now that I can say is a bit of an interesting one because there are some animal carcasses, so there's that part. But the thing is that animals are also the main antagonists, so they do take a beating, but you want that to happen? I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 20:56

I'll I'll leave that for you to decide. Let's go ahead and get into our ratings then. Winning the Pooh, Blood and Honey, from 2023. Is it a Hacker Slash? All right.

SPEAKER_02 21:05

The moment has come, and I never thought I'd be in a situation where I'd be seeing a film like this, much less twice. So that tells you how much I love Hacker Slash, okay? Now, when this movie first got announced, I thought to myself, how is this going to fare on the mean one meter? You know, that's how I measure movies now, is based on the mean one. And now that I've seen this movie twice, this is where I'm landing on it, okay? This movie is not as bad as the mean one, but it's still pretty bad. Okay, and for those of you that have not seen the mean one, know that that is like really, really, really, really bad. So the way I want to describe this is it's as if this was a tubi horror film that actually outperforms every other film in the platform. Okay, like I would say this movie is the creme de la creme of the tubi horror sphere. The reason being the kills are really fun. I think the Premise is ridiculous, but it is so hot and cold with its potential sometimes. Like when the practical effects and cinematography hits, it gets ruined by some of this really shitty CGI and characters that are honestly forgettable and you don't really care about. I think it's got a daring premise, but at the end of the day, I really want to care about what's happening. And at the end of the day, when you don't care what's happening, you end up feeling like, damn, I could have just done this by playing Dead by Daylight and having these antagonists be some of the killers. You know, that's the way I see it. So ultimately, I commend this movie for surprising me for not being as bad as I expected, but it is still a hack. And I will just say this now that even though it's a hack, it's one of those movies where it could get hackier with the more times that I watch it.

SPEAKER_01 22:52

Was it a slash when you first watched it though?

SPEAKER_02 22:54

It was closer to the slash meter when I first watched it, and it is getting hackier. So that's why.

SPEAKER_01 23:00

Okay. I don't know that I was expecting slash, but I also can admit that I'm a little surprised you're going hack, which I don't know why I'm so surprised. Because this movie is not a great movie. I fully acknowledge that bias and vulnerability has swept over my soul. I admit this movie was there for me in a desperate time, and now I just don't know if I deserve better. I get that. This movie is problematic, but here's where I think I differ. I have, in true Chris Rojas fashion, found a lot of love in its potential. The things that it lacks, I feel like it lacks with some justification given its budget and how good other parts of it are. So there's a lot here that I can admire and that I can respect. There's one or maybe two overall critical notes where I'm like, I really wish this went differently in the movie. But at the end of the day, it was more fun than I expected it to be. It was more gruesome than I expected it to be. It looked a lot better than I expected it to look, especially after the massive crippling disappointment of the mean one. I can't believe that I'm saying this, but I want to continue seeing what's up in the hundred acre wood. I was never a big Pooh girl when I was younger. That just really wasn't my speed. However, maybe this is the version of Winnie the Pooh that I needed. It's not a great movie, so don't expect an immaculate time, but I will say that if you want to have a little bit of fun with your friends, this is the one to do it with. And for that it's a slash. And with that, Winnie the Pooh, Blood and Honey from 2023, is split down the middle with one hack and one slash. Now you can't find this movie streaming online, so go check the link in our show notes to see where you can find it right now. Then join us in the second half so we can dive into those spoilers together. We'll see you in a bit.

SPEAKER_02 25:05

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SPEAKER_01 27:16

Oh my gosh. Listen, I enjoyed so many of the kills in this movie. First things first, I want to give a little special shout out to what I have called the Sartane special, which was Winnie the Pooh channeling his best Michael Myers from 2018 and absolutely stomping this man's head in.

SPEAKER_02 27:36

Oh yep, that's what I figured. That whole moment, all four of those men, like that whole moment of him just standing there taking it, that was Halloween Kills ends one of those. You know the one, obviously.

SPEAKER_01 27:47

1000%, because the scene of the four men was giving the town of Haddonfield gang up on Michael Myers and Halloween Kills. A thousand percent, you are spot on. There we go.

SPEAKER_02 27:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:57

Pooh Bear has haunted this town for 40 years, and when he dies tonight.

SPEAKER_02 28:01

He dies tonight. Well, hey, and also now if we really wanted to think about it, the Wood Chipper thing. Wood Chipper was a Evil Dead Rise. Evil Dead Rise, also, correct, correct.

SPEAKER_01 28:12

Yeah, Woodchipper in Evil Dead was a definitely a good moment. It was also a present, and I believe Tucker and Dale versus Evil. So a few different movies that Woodcheppers have have been featured in. But man, a lot of these skills were just so good.

SPEAKER_02 28:27

No, absolutely. One that I want to highlight just right off the bat is the first one, in a way, and it's Eeyore. How fucked is that? How depressing, honestly. Quite literally, the depressing character. And you're just gonna do him like that.

SPEAKER_00 28:42

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 28:43

You know what it is? They were tired of hearing his complaints. And I mean, in a way, he kind of wanted to go already, you know? Yeah. But it it's just so sad. There's so much to talk about visually in this movie, but even in that kill scene, which is just a sketch, it's an off-hand off-camera reference. You get a drawing of all four of the friends looking off, and then there's like a flash of lightning, and then all of a sudden you see them all bony and hungry. They made these drawings actually look a little spooky.

SPEAKER_02 29:14

The drawings were fantastic. And the drawing of that scene in particular is really effective because I was very surprised. And that's kind of what I was mentioning in terms of setting the tone right at the forefront, because it's establishing the scenario, why they are the way that they are and what they have done, and the level of desperation that they killed their own friend to get to this point. So I thought that was super intense. Another one that I thought was a little bit disappointing, but obviously necessary was Mary's kill, so Christopher Robin's wife, because yeah, obviously choked and a little tough, but it was okay.

SPEAKER_01 29:57

Yeah, it was sad at best for her, but I think we can all agree that fuck boy, Christopher Robin did not do enough to try to save her. There was this crying, the shaking, the please poo, no, don't do it, let her go. Why? And it was in that moment where I was like, I don't think I actually care for Christopher Robin that much. I like the idea of it, and I don't dislike him as a whole, don't get me wrong. But it was at that moment where I was like, fucking Drew Barrymore his ass. Take him out, let him go. Drew Barrymore his ass. Incredible. Yeah, seriously. Because how interesting if you were to go in the direction of padding the body count right up front with your stunner of a kill to be the main guy. I think that would be really fucking cool. But technically they did that, but in a different way. They did that by not doing it. Because the second they go in on him without actually viciously killing him, you know that motherfucker's alive. Do you? Because in the drawing. Yeah, it was immediately obvious to me that he was alive.

SPEAKER_02 31:06

In the drawing, though, there's a moment where you just see a body in like a puddle and it seems like it's electrocuted or something. You didn't take that as perhaps maybe something happened to Christopher Robin? Absolutely not. And it's not that I thought that something happened to him. I didn't expect him to die either. But for me, it's that I never perceived Christopher Robin to be the main character. I thought Maria was the main character. And so when she dies, I was like, oh shit, this movie doesn't give a single fuck. For me, her getting her throat slit, just surviving everything, and Pooh just being like, fuck you, and your attempt at redemption and trying to save me was creme de la creme stuff. For the film, I want to preface for the film, because in comparison to a lot of other things in media, like obviously not, but you know what I'm saying? I just wasn't anticipating that.

SPEAKER_01 31:59

For sure. And let's break this down in a couple different ways, right? When I say the main guy, I mean in poo lore. I mean Winnie the Pooh history. Like it's Christopher Robin. You know, it's Winnie the Pooh, Eeyore, Tigger, Piglet, Owl, Rabbit, Kanga, Roo, Christopher Robin. That's the family, right?

SPEAKER_02 32:18

Damn, you really know Winnie your Winnie the Pooh.

SPEAKER_01 32:20

Jesus.

SPEAKER_02 32:21

I forgot there was a Kanga and a Roo.

SPEAKER_01 32:23

For me, it was Christopher Robin being the main guy in Pooh lore. When I saw there was this moment of confrontation and how quickly they were going, I was really hoping that he'd get it. And actually, you know what? I omitted another movie from my list and talking about originality because this movie did exactly what Friday the 13th from 2009 did, which is cut to black when you have the main person left from the opening kills and they just are held captive to be found later. That's why I never thought for a second that he was actually dead. However, let's talk about Maria and her death because that is the one thing that actually kind of frustrated me in this movie. Yes, it's a bold choice. Yes, it's uh this movie doesn't give a single fuck. Sure, okay, I get it. But we have this girl going on a trip with her friends. It's giving Chris from Friday the 13th, part three. She is going out of here to confront her own inner turmoil. She is processing a lot in therapy, she's been going through a lot, and this is a very supportive trip for her friends where she's also opening up about all this pain. So for her to survive the horrors of one trash man who was stalking and broke into her home, to survive that, to come on this pilgrimage with your friends, and then to just get got by a fictional bear because this guy left and then didn't have the sense to go check in on how they were doing before actually bringing his fiance there. All the women in this movie suffer the consequences of some guy. And that's where I'm like, all right. Again, it's a fucking shitty horror movie that's supposed to be fun, so it's not supposed to be that deep, and I get it and I respect it. But this is the one thing that I wish was different. I wish Christopher Robin died at the end because that would have meant more. Like him having the balls to stop her kill and to sacrifice himself in the way that he didn't sacrifice himself for Mary, I would have appreciated that more.

SPEAKER_02 34:23

Long story short, is Christopher Robin a little bitch? Absolutely. A thousand percent. You talked a lot about in terms of the women, the way I'm interpreting what you're saying is like they don't necessarily feel supported by men in this film, that's for sure. Or I I don't want to say defended either, but even the four guys that roll up in that truck were a little sus, a little weird, right?

SPEAKER_01 34:45

Yeah, and again, I don't mean to make this a whole let me stand on my soapbox and talk about how the uh all the men in this movie were trash. At the very least, they they try to confront him and they're being all big tough guys, whatever, but it seems like there's a genuine desire to at least like, why are you messing with these girls? What were you doing to them? And so it's not that bad. It's really just the Christopher Robin of it all. And I'm like, fuck man, couldn't you let this man go out with some dignity instead of just running away like a little bitch? He should have died.

SPEAKER_02 35:12

That's fair, that's fair. Reminding me of the male gaze a little bit. So speaking about Christopher Robin and all that, but one that was really catered to the male gaze, I should say, to me was Tina's kill. Obviously. Naturally. What an obvious excuse to get tits out and film in like the first 10 minutes. That was flat out. There was no need for the top to come off, and it came off so easily. What kind of shirt was that?

SPEAKER_01 35:38

It was a tearaway shirt. That's what it seemed like. Because even mechanically, there's no way that shirt comes off that way.

SPEAKER_02 35:45

At all. Honestly, it was like paper, it just fell apart instantly, like a magic trick.

SPEAKER_01 35:51

And I think what concerned me about that moment, and this movie could have absolutely fucked all the way off if it went down this road. I was getting concerned that Pooh was gonna be a sexual predator.

SPEAKER_02 36:04

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 36:05

That was a really fucking alarming.

SPEAKER_02 36:07

And that's why it's like, why did you include it then? I know why, and it's because of the male gaze, but it's still teetering on a very fine line of okay, our childhood is already being ruined by the this character and the premise of this movie. We don't need to toe the line when it comes to tits, okay. The other part up to it, and this kill in particular, is it already tells you what kind of CGI we're gonna be messing around with in this film because the gore, when she does hit that wood chipper, trash.

SPEAKER_01 36:42

It's the mean one. Actually, it's a little bit better than the mean one because at least here's why. The only reason why. If we roll back the tape to the mean one episode, I talked about how it felt like that was stock blood, but they found all different ones. At least this one seems like it was owned by the same person.

SPEAKER_02 37:01

Yes, definitely owned by the same person.

SPEAKER_01 37:03

For sure, the blood had a lot of opportunity. It was rough. Even the second we see the CGI blood dripping on the honeypot outside, that was also rough. It was still better than the mean one, but it was the closest it got, I think, to being mean one territory. I think the other part of this though is that there are some elements of the gore and some elements of the kills that actually look pretty good. Again, this is a little generous to say. But Pooh bringing in Mary's charred skeleton to be just in his eye insight and then bathing him in her blood? Fucking wild.

SPEAKER_02 37:38

That's when I realized that this movie's not fucking around a little bit. That's when I took the gore a little more seriously. Because when I saw the CGI from Tina's kill, I was like, eh. But then that was intense. No fucks were given in that kill.

SPEAKER_01 37:52

It was really brutal. And honestly, I think that's where the closest we get to seeing Pooh as the real monster that he is, because it's not just killing for survival. It's not just an animal trying to find its way in last. This is actual revenge. This is consciousness.

SPEAKER_02 38:10

Right, which is a part that you can't forget, and it's established at the beginning that it's not even just about the fact that they were left to fend for themselves, but that they made a vow that they would never speak again and that they hated humans for what they did to them. That's a key element that again gets tied into the very end when Christopher Robin is trying to touch little Pooh Bear's heart, get him to love him again. No, bitch, absolutely not. He hates all of you, and he will make it very clear.

SPEAKER_01 38:43

Can we talk about Star Wars episode three, Revenge of the Sith? Oh, is this the connection?

SPEAKER_02 38:47

Go.

SPEAKER_01 38:48

You're my brother, Pooh Bear!

SPEAKER_02 38:49

That's what that was. I see it now.

SPEAKER_01 38:52

Absolutely. You're going down a path I cannot follow. It was honestly Christopher Robin was trying to channel both his best Padmate and his best Obi-Wan, and he was failing on all fronts, let's be real, because Pooh Bear was fucking Anakin slaughtering younglings. Like that's what his whole energy was. But even when we get that moment of Pooh reflecting and looking in the mirror and then looking back up, and then we see his eyes all different, it was Sith Eyes. It was Sith Eyes for Winnie the Pooh.

SPEAKER_02 39:19

Yes, which honestly was an incredible shot. That scene in particular was incredible visually. Shout out to the cinematography crew because that shot was like, all right, they're really doing the damn thing with this moment. And now, again, singularly, the cinematography in general is great. Everything else just wins back down. It's a very big roller coaster ride with this movie. Certain things are great, others not so much. That shot in particular was really nice because it's where you really take a moment to breathe in the fact that this is Winnie the Pooh, much older and very scary. And every other scene that you see Pooh in, you don't really see those eyes. And it was very intimidating, which I would like to take this moment to talk a little bit about my theory, a little bit about Pooh's costume design and design in general.

SPEAKER_00 40:14

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 40:15

Okay, I need everyone to buckle in, praise themselves for probably something that I'm gonna say that will haunt me throughout the rest of the year, most likely. Oh shit. Fuck it, it's the beginning of the year. We're gonna go for it. I don't know if you've noticed, Chris, but Shrek is making its way back. Shrek is love and life. To some people, Shrek is hot and good looking.

SPEAKER_01 40:39

Oh my god, no, no.

SPEAKER_02 40:41

Yes, this is where I'm going with this. Wait, hear me out. I'm not saying that I think this have standards. I just want to establish my thought pattern, okay? As I was appreciating the visual and costume design of this film, I thought, how insane would it be? But also, mad respect if there are if you're out there, people, but how interesting is probably the better word would it be if people were like into Pooh in this film? Because Pooh is giving dad bod muscular builds, okay? I feel like some people might find that attractive. There are people out there, Jesus, clearly like those that find Shrek good looking that are into fictional characters. Hey, we've all been there, okay? Don't even act like you weren't, you know, listener. I know you. I know that you were into a fictional character. Don't even act right now, okay? Okay. I think we can all agree that the fox from Robin Hood was actually pretty hot. People, look, was it Simba? I think Simba also was giving. We've all been there, all right? I understand. You get what I'm trying to say. The thing about Pooh is I'm convinced that if he had like maybe even more of a chiseled jawline, I think that there would have been some fans out there. There would have been some people like really backing him up. Because he even does some cardio, okay? He's got endurance. I'd be remiss if I didn't bring this up, if I wasn't honest about the thoughts that I had when I re-watched this film. Okay? And I understand that this is gonna haunt me, but know that I live my truth. And the truth is that I don't find Pooh good looking. I just want to be clear, I don't find him good looking. But you do find him fuckable. I don't find him fuckable either. I think that there are people out there that would find him fuckable, is what I'm trying to say. I don't want a soundbite taken out of context.

SPEAKER_01 42:32

I do not for a second find Pooh even remotely attractive, nor can I see the vision that you're trying to take me on. But I'm gonna respect that some boats are floated by different things, and my vote is just in a totally different fucking ocean at this point. But let's talk about the look of Pooh because the look of Pooh was achieved for about $770. That's it. It was a mask, a shirt they found on Amazon or some shit, some gloves from a store. It's really fucking simple. And what's interesting to me is that in the sequel, now that they have a bigger budget, they can actually afford prosthetics. And the poo design is gonna be different because it's gonna be done by the same company that worked on Harry Potter's Voldemort and even Star Wars. Oh, they're really not fucking around now.

SPEAKER_02 43:25

They're not fucking around. So you're telling me that there is a stronger chance that Pooh really might be attractive.

SPEAKER_01 43:31

Oh, I think they're going more into the poo angle. Not like P-O-O, but like the P-O-O-H, like the bear. It's giving fuzzy wuzzy was a bear. There is a link in the show notes so you will be able to see a teaser image of what the next Pooh will look like if you are so curious.

SPEAKER_02 43:48

Oh, I'm gonna ha definitely check that out. But I just want to establish that I know that there are people out there that would find them attractive, and I'm just trying to make sure that they know that they're heard. Not understood necessarily, but they're heard.

SPEAKER_01 44:00

Banks, I know that I just fucking said that Christopher Robin was doing his best pathway, but I think you are going down a path I cannot follow. I want to reiterate. No, it's giving asking for a friend, and the friend is me.

SPEAKER_02 44:12

No, the friend is not me. The friend is not me. I just, it's a thought that came to my mind because, again, thinking of like our childhood and this craze of adapting all of these like movies that we watched as kids and this Shrek craze that's going around, and people really finding Shrek to be extremely hot. Some of my closest friends included. I get it, but it just made me wonder could Pooh be the same? That's all it is, okay? That's really all it is. Now, enough about all my freaking crazy theories. The other things that are done so well in terms of production value in this film is really the art design again. I think we talked about it briefly in terms of those small bits where they're drawing out what is happening. So the scene with Eeyore, Christopher dragged into the pit. I really liked the character design and like the art design of that. Also, the set design of the camp where everybody's staying at an 100-acred wood, I thought that was really cool. Giving a little bit Rob Zombie because it's giving run down, everything's definitely falling apart, something is amiss for sure. So I thought that was nice. It was a little chaotic, but I think it needed to be to also establish that Pooh and Piglet and I I would imagine everybody else, like they are grown and they are definitely not just animals. They are these things, these half bear, half pig, you know, like that kind of stuff. I thought that was really nice to establish that. But one small bit I want to highlight, one small thing that was really funny to me is the title card sequence reminded me of the Microsoft Word fonts from the late 90s. You know that blue one? That was that, or like that time you would put like the fire effect on your like on your stuff for MySpace. That's that title card sequence. So good job to bring us back to our childhood because that definitely did it.

SPEAKER_01 46:10

Yeah, it really hit childhood in several generations, really, when you think about it. I can respect it. There's so much that this movie does well, and I do have a few yikes moments, but I know we talked about I know we talked about like the costume and the set design. All of it looks really good. This is where I struggle taking away credit from this movie because I'm thinking about what you said earlier. There are some things where it's it's doing it really well, and then something bad happens, you're like, ugh, it kind of leaves a bad taste in your mouth. Think about even like Laura's death, right? She is tied up, car is running over her head, and the CGI is fucking terrible. She has like an eyeball that's out on the floor, and it like, if you just step back and look at it like real quick, it's not like the worst thing that I've ever seen, but the quality of the gore is not good. But the set design, the wardrobe, everything else about this movie aesthetically, for me makes up for it completely. So it'll never be as bad as the mean one because the mean one couldn't even white balance a shot correctly, it couldn't get the basics of fucking cinematography correct. And this one absolutely nailed everything else. I'm even thinking about its composition. Think about the moment that Piglet is standing on her back. He has one leg on her, pinning her down even more, and we get this beautiful backlit shot. The cinematography, like the camera department, was really working and hustling with the fucking lighting because it was beautiful. This movie has no business being beautiful, Binks. It shouldn't be, and yet it is. I absolutely agree. 100%. I even think about the way that Pooh and Piglet are lurking in the background. Okay, for example, Laura is in the hot tub, she's taking selfies, and then all of a sudden we get her zooming in in the background, and Pooh's just standing there. It's a simple costume and it works. Him peering out from a corner, it works. It's drawing back to Maria Stalker. There are so many things that this does this movie does well visually to give you that sense of like, ugh, that's a little fucked up. I don't like that. And I can get into it. Now, a couple of yikes moments for me. One, we think about the guys all surrounding him, a la Halloween kills, evil dies tonight. There is the moment where this guy hits him in the back of the head, then Pooh turns around. And did it stand out to you as much as it did to me that Pooh is 50 times bigger than this man?

SPEAKER_02 48:42

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 48:43

And they try to, I think, pass it off as camera perspective, like you're looking up and it's supposed to be look really imposing. Lens compression is a real thing. You can really pull off some wicked optical illusions, but that did not feel like that to me. It was just wild and jarring, and it honestly completely took me out of the moment because it almost for a second made it seem like is Pooh like going super saiyan here? Is he just like leveling up and he's about to go fucking ham? Or is it just something supernatural? But then all the other guys in the group have close-ups and they're looking down. So it's just those kind of things that don't line up and it disrupts the immersion of the scene. And then even thinking about like again, the CGI going back to Laura's kill, there's a moment where they discover her body, the blood is still like shooting and bubbling, and it just looks bad. Like that's where I struggle with. The CGI, I give this movie a lot of credit, but the gore was good on paper, bad on execution. Without a doubt.

SPEAKER_02 49:42

It's a shame because there's a lot of blood in this film, and a majority of that blood is displayed poorly.

SPEAKER_01 49:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:50

Very, very poorly.

SPEAKER_01 49:52

So could have done better. You know what was not displayed poorly? The sound effects in the subtitles where it says poo slurping or the fingers cracking sound effect. First of all, poo slurping.

SPEAKER_02 50:05

You see, the fans that are into poo, they were here for that ASMR. Okay. They were slurping. They were slurping. No, it's great that you bring up the sound effects and the captions, because that actually is a great segue to my favorite scene. And it may be a little odd to you, but bear with me. Aside from the ending being my favorite part of the movie, there's one other scene that I enjoyed mostly because it made me laugh the most. And it was Pooh smearing blood or whatever the heck it was all over his face, presumably eating, obviously, and the way that his neck snapped so instantly. Like he heard a sound and he'd snap that neck. He was serving looks instantly, and the song that is playing in the background that really repeats itself throughout the film, but in this moment in particular, it's so shitty, but it is hilarious to me. I can't stop laughing when I'm reading the lyrics because it just keeps repeating someplace, that smell, something.

SPEAKER_01 51:03

Yes. What? The subtitle for the music is hilarious. That smell, someplace, something, something, something, something. And it feels like a placeholder, but it's also not.

SPEAKER_02 51:14

No, it's intentional. And that's what's frightening and hilarious because what is that? Truly. What is that?

SPEAKER_01 51:21

What are those?

SPEAKER_02 51:23

What are those? Andrew Scott Bell, I think, right? Andrew Scott Bell is the one that did the score. What are you doing? What happened here? Because did you forget to actually maybe write some lyrics? Or quite frankly, just don't. Just give me the sound at that point.

SPEAKER_01 51:38

Honestly, if we ever got the sound without reading the lyrics, I don't think I ever would have noticed. So I feel like if you write this, you gotta have a great sense of humor to also include the lyrics for the closed captions. Because I would have loved just little music notes.

SPEAKER_02 51:53

Would have been fantastic. No, but knowing that they're saying someplace, something, that smell, just it's the fact that they wrote that smell. I just what the fuck? I can't believe it's my favorite scene, but it really is because I just couldn't stop laughing. I was laughing my ass off. Yeah. It was the snap. He was serving such a look. I was like, oh shit. Okay, Pooh. And then with the music in the background, I was like, is he about to like go into Vogue? I don't know what's about to happen right now. This is bizarre. It's a lot. Famed fashion icon, Winnie the Pooh.

SPEAKER_01 52:24

It was just so much in so little time. Yeah. It really is, man. That's so good. I was hard pressed to find another scene that I considered my favorite outside of honestly the opening illustrations and painting the whole picture of how we get there, especially because the last quote is they return to their animalistic roots, swearing never to talk again. I really, really enjoyed it, especially with the music starting off really whimsical, it starts to get a little bit darker in terms of where the narrative is going. The music still feels innocent until all of a sudden everything changes with that lightning strike. So I really, really loved that. I think it set the tone in such at such a high bar that I don't think that the movie, as good as I found it to be, could have kept up with that bar. I think it has to like land right beneath it. But I think aside from that, another favorite was honestly Laura's whole kill. And again, we talked about the get death, we talked about all of that. But for me, it was her being lulled into this false sense of security. She's minding her own business, taking some photos, and then Pooh's just there in the background. Then she's abducted, then she's tied up. There was something about a the absolute stunning composition. We had the headlights going, we had the engine reving, and it was one of those moments where I'm like, okay, if this movie was a serious movie that lacked any comedic tone, this was a moment where I would have felt on edge. Because I think even the sound effects of the engine reving would have been enough to make me a little bit nervous.

SPEAKER_02 53:54

That's fair. I thought that her kill was pretty impressive, but her as a character though, damn, couldn't stand her. Let's be real. They're all giving bland. Oh, super. She's another character in general, though, that was like, uh, you were included in this film to be the hot girl, to have her tits out a little bit, serving the look, not giving a single fuck about anyone that you're actually on this vacation with. You're only here to be the influencer girl. Like, we've seen the tropes time and time again. So I didn't really care too much about her, despite her kill. I would say, like, matching how much I didn't give a fuck. Does that make sense? Like, she got it pretty brutal for someone who you just really aren't supposed to even care about at all.

SPEAKER_01 54:38

Can I tell you who else I didn't really give a shit about? Tina. Tina deserved to die the moment she got out of her car and then decided I'm just not gonna follow the directions anymore, and then chose to walk off into the woods. Ma'am, what the fuck are you doing? Like how in what world is that a good idea? But we do get a great shot of who seeing her and then running straight toward her. I did love that shit. It's get out a little bit. I was just thinking that.

SPEAKER_02 55:06

Anytime that someone just runs directly to the camera, now I'm like, oh Jordan Peel. You did it with the get out. And maybe you didn't, right? I'm sure there's countless of other times or inspirations, but like people know that from get out. And I was like, ooh, that's nice. But also establish that Pooh definitely has some good cardio. So don't be, don't let that dad bot fool you, okay? Don't let the amount of honey or other things that he eats fool you.

SPEAKER_01 55:31

The honey belly is really an optical illusion and definitely a prosthetic. The only prosthetic they've probably had in this whole fucking movie. It seems like it. It definitely seems like it. I think even looking at that, I want to dive into Pooh for a second. I know we talked about how intense his eyes looked in that shot, which was absolutely stellar, but he really had his Anakin Skywalker crying with considering killing the young wings in episode three because he actually cries after his flashback memory.

SPEAKER_02 56:00

He does. Now that you brought up Star Wars, I'm seeing it even more because it is Anakin, right? Where you can still remember those moments, feel sad about those moments, but ultimately the hatred and the pain can supersede that. Are we actually getting deep about Winnie the Pooh right now?

SPEAKER_01 56:18

God have mercy. We absolutely are. And this is what makes me a little bit nervous is I really hope they don't fucking try to line us up for some Winnie the Pooh redemption arc in the next movie. Winnie the Pooh's gonna go full Darth Vader, only to be redeemed by his son.

SPEAKER_02 56:33

No. Mm-hmm. Just take him out. It would cheapen the ending of this one. You know what I'm saying? I like that at the end of the day, he took a vow of silence and he breaks it to establish the fact you're not going to get through to me. You left. He didn't say that, right? All he says is you left, but that's what he's saying with that. He's whatever you think you're trying to do, little bitch, it's not gonna work. Okay? You left, slits the throat, and then just goes ham on this girl's face. Nuts.

SPEAKER_01 57:02

But I'm thinking about even a confrontation that we get between Vader and between Obi-Wan later in another series. And I just think about those characters going at ends with each other, and it's just the raw emotions of everything. Also, Christopher Robin is a fuckboy, he disappeared, whatever. Go live your life, bro. Good for you. I think you should have had a little bit more sense than to just check in on these friends that you say you had before you bring your fiance there for the first time. Oh hey guys, here's my fiance. Even if everything was chill. Yeah, but what is he gonna do, Chris?

SPEAKER_02 57:35

He's not gonna like roll up, send him a text, be like, hey, how you doing? If you know the meme, you know.

SPEAKER_01 57:40

But he could have rolled up just to say hi and check in on his friend. It's also only been like five years. What? Yeah. Canonically, it's only been five years. He just left for college. He didn't leave for high school in college.

SPEAKER_02 57:52

Okay. Okay, thank you. That's what I needed. That's what I needed to hear. Because when I was thinking of Christopher in like the beginning, I was thinking to myself, okay, this is the part that's giving very much Toy Story. One of those moments where I'm thinking to myself, like, damn, this is why I must have like hoarded a lot of my childhood toys. Because what if this came true one day? Because it's like ultimately, even in Toy Story, you know, you grow up, you leave your toys behind, but you're coming back. In this case, I'm thinking, all right, well, leaving these animals to fend for themselves for several years, if not decade, that's a lot of time. Five years though? Uh I'm not trying to say that they're being dramatic. I'm not trying to gaslight Pooh and friends either. But that's pretty intense of an extreme.

SPEAKER_01 58:40

It is an intense extreme, but also I don't know how five years was enough for Pooh to become the candyman and be able to control swarms of bees. I forgot about that already.

SPEAKER_02 58:52

Yep. I really did. And now God, this movie's terrible.

SPEAKER_01 58:56

It's honestly not an addition that we needed. I'll be real. Oh lord. I did like Piglet squeals, though.

SPEAKER_02 59:02

Piglet squeals, but also why does he look like a boar?

SPEAKER_01 59:05

I got nothing.

SPEAKER_02 59:06

Are those not two different animals? Am I crazy? I've established that I don't actually know animals that well, even though I do the animal report. Okay, let's start off the year being very honest.

SPEAKER_01 59:17

We really got our aces and our places here on this show. Uh, but count on me to tell you if someone's hot or not. And you know what? As lost as the candyman of it all may have been on you, I am a little disappointed that the relationship between Alice and Zoe was. You're right.

SPEAKER_02 59:37

I own that completely. Not very good ally of me because the first time around, it really went right over my head completely. I don't even know what I thought. I thought maybe they were like obviously best friends. I didn't notice the rose petals. I don't even think I honestly remembered the whole little gift awkward exchange and conversation. I just figured when she said, like, oh, this is for Zoe or whatever, I was like, Oh, because they're besties. Now the second time around, I was like, oh shit, they're besties. But clearly something went awry.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:11

They're fighting. But we don't really know why either. Yeah. Again, one of the great injustices of this movie. But listen, I just, you know what, good for them for having lives outside of this shit. I don't know. I'm really throwing this movie a bone with this. Those fucking girls had the chemistry of two wet paper bags clung together. But that's about it. That's about it.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:37

This whole friend group. First of all, how awkward is it that you're going on a little vacation? No one really gives a fuck about being there, quite frankly, it sounds like. They all just want to be on their phones and just be left alone. But let's go ahead, sit in the living room, have a kumbaya moment where I'm going to talk about one of the most serious traumatic things that has ever happened to me because my therapist thinks it would be great to do so. I think she meant maybe to better friends, Maria. I'm pretty sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:05

Yeah. I think Jessica was actually the good friend here.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:08

And well, look at what happened to her.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:10

Yeah, well, I mean, decapitated, head thrown. Good old beheading. There is a moment where Maria is melting down, wondering why the fuck this is happening, why he won't leave her alone. And then Jessica's like, I'm here with you. You're not alone. And it's obviously a scary situation, but she's still trying to be present. I also think Jessica was gay and just into Maria, but that's just me.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:29

Well, at that rate, I don't even I don't even think that would be a wrong assumption to make. They wouldn't know how to actually correctly display that. They wouldn't know how to actually write that well. So that's true. It very much could be that was what they were trying to do and failed miserably at it. So maybe you're right. Maybe that would be a good assumption to make.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:47

Another miserable failure was I think the character of Charlene, who was the other captive found in the camp, who suddenly went Sally Hardesty and then fucking went out just as quickly.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:58

Man, both times that I saw this film, when she comes on screen, I'm like, who the fuck are you, ma'am? Who are you? Quite frankly, who are you and why should I care? We had to get to lucky number 13 for the kills. No, I guess you're right. But man, you were here one moment, gone the next. It was like, am I trying to get a vibe of Kill Bill where you're really just gonna like annihilate everybody here? No, you're really just shitty. You barely have an eye. I don't understand. It's just not gonna work, ma'am. It's not gonna work. Yeah, it was all a miss. But you know what wasn't a miss and might be my favorite part of this film. And I think I've already said it, you might guess correctly. It's the ending for sure, and I know that you're not happy with it, but I think for me, it's like where I it's the only part that I was able to take this movie seriously because of how surprising it was. And I think it is really because I truly believe that Maria was gonna be this final girl and the main character for this film. I would imagine people watching it for the first time now knowing that there's going to be a sequel soon, they're probably thinking this is gonna be the girl that's championing this franchise when it's not, you know, or at the very least, tag teaming it with Christopher Robin, but she's not. And I think it's so great to see that even with a cliche redemption tactic that we tend to see with villains, it doesn't work. We just get that those two words, you left, and that's it. He just goes in on her. It's pretty jarring, definitely memorable.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:26

Yeah. I think my struggle is while I appreciate how jarring that is, and it's a big fuck you. I just don't see a world in which I'm okay with Christopher Robin surviving instead of Maria after everything that she's been through. Let the girl catch a break. She already just lost all her friends. She has fought through a lot. And the performance is, again, not great in this movie. We can acknowledge that. However, I do think her character deserved to be in the sequel. Now, if Christopher Robin died and she died, and it's just like nobody gets a happy ending, then maybe I can respect that. But Christopher Robin just cowering and fucking running away while her body continues to be desecrated is just like, bro, what a bummer to end the movie on, and not something that I'm super vibed with. It's the worst part of the movie for me. Aside from the tit exposure of it all. Fair enough. I figured as much.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:20

I figured as much, and that's okay. We can disagree on that.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:22

We can also disagree apparently on how rewatchable this movie is, because it gets worse for you, but it got better for me. Incredible.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:29

We're really just opposite sides, which is very interesting. Usually that's the case-ish. Sometimes, most times, not all the time. We don't actually agree very much, I think. No, we don't. But this time that it's the first time we're both doing this episode, it's much more evident, I think. Yeah. Because we get a little padding with the boys, you know? The little buffer keeping between us. Exactly. It's a buffer. It's a buffer. Look, I still think that this movie is a lot better than you anticipate, even after watching it. It's just that I can find more flaws as I re-watch it. That's what I'm that's what I noticed about myself. In the second film, in the second watch, I'm sure in the third watch, if that comes across somehow, some way it comes about, I'm gonna probably not like it as much. So I'd rather leave it where it's at, where I can still consider it to be the best of the tubies when it's really on Peacock. Well, and right now, who knows where you can find it now? But at the time of recording, it's available on Peacock. So, like, that's already bizarre as it is. Let's just leave it here. Let's just leave this rewatch here.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:30

I think I got one more rewatch in me right before the sequel comes out. And then maybe another rewatch if I'm trying to binge the entire franchise of like Bambi and Peter Pan after all those are out in a few years.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:45

Okay. You know what? Yes. I'm not gonna say that I'll never rewatch this film because a scenario like that may come across, especially knowing us. So I feel like that's when I'm gonna save it. I'm gonna save this rewatch for that particular moment, and then let's really leave it there. Before I hate this movie more than I already do, and I don't hate it that much. We're at a good spot for this hack, okay? It's not like an infinity pool level or Ginger Dead Man or all these other movies that I strongly hack.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:12

Well, listen, Binks, I look forward to the day that you and I are sitting in your living room re-watching the entire fucked up fairy tale universe.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:21

We'll have theme snacks. We'll have themed snacks. I guess I do like a good themed snacks situation.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:28

Yeah, you'll make some kind of like honey drink, probably.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:30

Yeah. I do like a little charcuterie board with jams and stuff. Alright, fine.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:35

We could make this work. We can make this a vibe. It'll be great. But until that day comes, there you have it, folks. Waiting the Pooh, Blood and Honey from 2023 has earned one hack and one slash. Now we certainly had a robust discussion here, but it doesn't end here by any means. We want to know what you think. Did you think this movie was complete bullshit? Let us know. You can join in on the conversation by hanging out with us for free over in Discord. Click the link in our show notes to sign up.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:02

If you've enjoyed listening to this episode, consider being one of our patrons. Visit patreon.com slash hackerslash to enjoy more of the show with early access, extended episodes, bonus content, and live shows. We'll see you next time, folks, and remember, I'm here with you. You're not alone. Maria, we need you to pull it together.