327: Late Night with the Devil (2024)

SPEAKER_03 0:04

Behind every man is a woman who deserved better. Greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hacker Slash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. All I'm trying to do is save our fucking show. If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack.

SPEAKER_01 0:26

A total joke, a waste of time, or a slash. Totally killer. Unintended.

SPEAKER_03 0:31

We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, for rating these movies with the perspective we've gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast, and this week I'm joined by the Superflight Space Guy Mac.

SPEAKER_01 0:44

Where is Vincent Price when you need him?

SPEAKER_03 0:46

The classic horror connoisseur Sean.

SPEAKER_01 0:48

Spouting, they call it, spontaneous regurgitation.

SPEAKER_03 0:52

And the paranormal paramour, Binx. Don't I already look pretty, Jack? This week we're checking out a 2024 film that captivated theater audiences and is now streaming on Shudder. The film is set in the 1970s and follows a live television event designed to captivate the nation during a critical ratings week. But as millions watch what was intended to be a controlled spectacle, the line between the screen and the supernatural seems to become perilously thin. The film taps into the collective anxiety of the era and works to blur the boundaries between fiction and reality, ensuring that every frame pulses with a palpable tension. This week we're talking about late night with the devil. What were y'all expecting going into this one?

SPEAKER_00 1:32

I was definitely thinking we were gonna get something along the lines of all the paranormal movies these days where it was like feeling very Ed and Lorraine the whole time. I I just figured it was gonna be like conjuring universe adjacent.

SPEAKER_02 1:45

I just feel like I remember watching the trailer for this one for the first time and really feeling like we were going to get this really vintage, campy possession type horror flick with because you get this late night kind of talk show vibe type thing in the trailer, and then you get this whole we're gonna talk to this girl from the like whatever talking with the devil, and she's sitting in the chair, and the next thing you know, there's some weird fucking shit happening. So I just feel like 70s late night talk show mixed with what looks like an exorcism gone wrong. How could you go wrong with that setup? I feel like it's just such a weird, intriguing setup, and I just remember even the hype surrounding this film when it released, because I know I didn't see it for at least like a week or so or two, maybe after it came out in theaters, and I just remember everyone I talked to, friends, co-workers, whoever, didn't hear a bad word about it. Like everyone was praising this movie, did not hear anything bad about it, and so that kind of has to affect your expectations going into it as well. So it really sets the bar pretty high, I would say.

SPEAKER_04 2:57

Yeah, I feel like there was a lot of buzz about this film before it hit theaters, and that really has a lot to do with the marketing of it. That's what really captivated me. It came off like if it was a real late-night found footage, which is always fun, although we obviously know that it isn't real, especially when you see David Desmalkian as the main guy. He's like the co-star of 5,000 films, it feels like, from Boogeyman, Oppenheimer, Dune Part One. It's been nuts lately for him. Suicide Squad's another one, it's just nuts. So once you see his face, you're like, oh yeah, this is definitely not real, obviously. But regardless, it captivated me for sure. I've actually seen this movie twice already in theaters. A really good time. I think I definitely have been one of those people that's been talking about it, and I can see after seeing it the first time around how it built up that traction and that buzz, even if the people got a hold of it from early screenings and things like that, too.

SPEAKER_03 3:54

What I absolutely love is that I didn't hear that much buzz. I know that there was a lot of high regard for the film, but the impression that I got of it was not that it's gonna be some glorious masterpiece and that you absolutely have to see it, but just that it's a rock solid film. And I think that I found that really encouraging because I feel like that has a lot of mass appeal. As someone goes into this, I love found footage films, so I was intrigued by the idea of how this story is framed. But I'm not always really big on demonic possession. Like it is kind of hit or miss, and it can be really good quality, really poor quality. So I think hearing how successful it was in the theater and then hearing some personal testimony without any real spoilers, just yeah, it was a good time. It was really interesting to for me to see the diversity in who was telling me it was a good time. That in itself was a really great sign.

SPEAKER_01 4:47

That's true.

SPEAKER_03 4:48

And what I really loved was also hearing just about the box office success, but that it apparently made six hundred and sixty-six thousand six hundred and sixty-six dollars on a Sunday in the box office.

SPEAKER_05 4:58

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 4:58

It's just perfect. I mean, how many free tickets did you have to give away to keep that number right there?

SPEAKER_02 5:04

They can skew that number a little bit, I'm sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:07

Of course you can. It's probably only six hundred and sixty-six dollars, six hundred and sixty-six cents worth of sellable tickets.

SPEAKER_02 5:14

Right.

SPEAKER_03 5:14

We love the gag, the bit of it all.

SPEAKER_04 5:16

You brought up how you love found footage, though, and I was thinking about how even those that don't like found footage would probably like this movie because it doesn't lean either which way. So it doesn't lean too much into found footage. It also barely leans into possession. Don't be fooled, guys. I I feel like this film isn't that much of a possession film as you may expect. There's a lot of layers here. That's how I felt throughout watching the film. I think the first time I was still marinating, just really letting everything simmer for me, trying to understand what I watch, what what I just watched. The second time around is when I was like, oh wow, I'm picking up on things that are like subliminal, way more m memorable takeaways. The characters like really stuck to me, how sinister some of them are, how silly others are, care about others a little bit more. Those kinds of things are are things that you don't expect coming from a typical paranormal possession film. Yeah, we've got the jab of Ed and Lorraine Warren, even in the film, although you already brought it up, Mac, coincidentally enough. Just want to say that the film pleasantly enough surprised me in the sense of me feeling like, wow, this is more than what I was expecting.

SPEAKER_03 6:24

Yeah, there's so much in this movie that I can't wait to go back and go over on a rewatch because I felt like I was almost drinking through a fire hose, but not in the overwhelming, overstimulating way. But rather, this is really simple on the surface, but I can tell there's a lot that's baked in here that I'm also just missing because I'm caught up looking at one portion of the set or listening to one person's dialogue when there's a lot of background conversation happening within the production team themselves. And the other thing that I really felt was incredibly immersed in the 1970s. This gives me the same feeling I got watching the 2009 film The House of the Devil, because that was a movie that was modern, but actually gave the energy and the vibe of being made in the 1980s down to the quality of film stock that was used. It's absolutely incredible to me the technical execution of not just dumping you into the 1970s with the news montage and just really setting the scene of like this is a time of fear and violence, but really even the quality of the film after that, the quality of the tape, absolutely fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 7:34

Immersive is like the best way you can probably describe that feeling because it's so good when a movie is like so spot on with what it gives you visually to really immerse you in the time period it's trying to depict. And I think this film like has a really interesting way of captivating you with that unique setting. It's got a unique setting, it's very it's got that vintage kind of 70s look, right? You get this strangely fitting practical effects in there. They even throw those AI-generated imagery, right, for the logos and stuff, but it all just works, it all just came together. And when you say immersive, I mean there isn't one thing that takes you out of that time period. If you really look, like we can go into movies that are set in the 70s and the 80s, and I've pointed some out. We've talked about some, like we got cell phones in back pockets, we got shit like that happening, but like this film does such a good job at just being really well placed, and everything is very intentional, and the even just the way everything looks visually is just so perfect. It's not even just the visuals, honestly, because the characters and the acting that we get, I feel keep you really engaged in every scene as well. It just feels overall immersive is great, it feels fun, it feels campy, it even feels emotional, creepy, unsettling. There's so many different things. It's really a whole mess of feelings while watching this one.

SPEAKER_00 8:57

I think you've all kind of nailed a lot of the feelings that you can have while watching this. I think the the biggest thing for me is that I was in a theater all to myself. No one else was in there with me, and I wasn't on my phone while watching this. I was paying attention to the movie the whole time. It kept my attention, it kept me captivated, it kept me really focused just to see what was gonna happen next, who was gonna say what next, what they were gonna throw at us, because from one scene to the next, they build your expectation, but and then you're waiting for delivery. When delivery happens, it's not just okay, now we're gonna go into a little valley. It's no, we're gonna keep building on that throughout the entire film and keep you going and make that 90 minutes really feel fuller than just 90 minutes.

SPEAKER_03 9:40

Which is really interesting to me, especially because the idea of the film itself, it's looking at the specific runtime of an event, a live broadcast television event, which to me is such a brilliant way of approaching the whole subject of found footage. How many times have we seen a found footage film on this podcast and we complain or we ridicule slightly the mechanic behind it? Why was this thing filmed? How do we get this edited content on this tape in front of us now? And it's something that breaks the fourth wall. Sometimes it just really destroys your ability to suspend disbelief. But this movie's application of it was just so well placed, even with getting the background images that aren't necessarily shown on live television. I think the actual approach to framing this story, 10 out of 10. It's like the biggest surprise.

SPEAKER_02 10:35

I think for me, the thing that surprised me the most about this film was how wrong I was about where the film was going, the more and more the film progressed. Like it wasn't like I had my idea, right? Like you can have a solid feeling or opinion or guess by watching the trailer, and that's kind of what I had, right? I watched the trailer, I go into this one, I'm pretty much what I said earlier, and just thinking, okay, this is gonna be some talk show, kind of campy vintage vibes. We're gonna see some kind of weird possession, exorcism gone wrong type of thing, and that's really what my mind was going as I set out to watch this film. And sure, there is some of that, but we're talking about like a whole bunch, you said it layers, right? There's just so many different things that go on with this movie and so many different directions that the movie goes in. And I can tell you honestly, I guess I wasn't really sitting there trying to figure out, like, okay, what is gonna be the end result of this film, but I can tell you that as each scene progressed and and I got into the second and the third act to the end, I definitely did not think that that was going to happen. That was the most surprising thing. Like, usually I can pick something apart, but this one I was like, no, I just let this thing take me for a ride.

SPEAKER_04 11:53

It's definitely quite a ride. All of these same things surprised me, but I do want to talk about some disappointments. I just have two. One being the elephant in the room that has really taken over the internet in terms of this movie. Aside from all the positives, there's some heavy discourse and complaint about the use of AI in this film, especially the AI art that is used in three stills. And although, yes, it's three stills, it's three of them, it's just sucks. I mean, I understand why people are up in arms about it. I mean, we just had a strike about the use of AI in these studios using AI to replace jobs, right? And so it's very scary. I completely understand that. For me, it's more like a a thing of it's just such shitty AI art, truthfully. It's so apparent that it's AI that it's not even funny. I could have probably done it much better for 15 bucks. I would have cut them a deal. For $15, I'll do the same thing. Wanted to address that now because I'm sure a lot of people are even really upset not wanting to see this film as a result of it. And I know that the director, I believe, and David Dosmelkin has addressed that it was the art department used the AI as a tool to help them with it. It wasn't in replace or in lieu of artists in the crew. So let's say that. But getting that out of the way, second thing, there's this one element about our main character, a trait of his or something that he's a part of that wasn't explored very much. And so I'm back and forth about whether it should have been or shouldn't. I'll unpack this in the spoiler section.

SPEAKER_01 13:27

I'm curious to hear that one.

SPEAKER_04 13:29

Yeah, because I think if we unpacked it a little bit more, it may be too obvious for the plot.

SPEAKER_05 13:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:34

But then at the same time, it's almost like, so then was it necessary to begin with to include it? So that's I I don't even know if that's necessarily a disappointment, as much as it is a I don't know where I stand with this. So I can't wait for us to discuss further.

SPEAKER_02 13:49

Oh yeah, we gotta go into that one for sure.

SPEAKER_00 13:51

It's interesting, Binks, that you mentioned the whole AI thing, because for me it's kind of a nothing burger. I literally had no idea that that was an issue. I also just haven't looked at any of the promotional material. So maybe I'm the wrong person to not be upset because I had no exposure to any of it. I think the thing that most disappointed me is just based on perhaps my not paying attention. Going into this, I had really little idea that it was supposed to be found footage, and when that was revealed amidst plentiful exposition, that was a disappointment because one, the right time to use found footage is effectively never unless you actually found some real footage and you made a movie out of it. I'm here for it. But in every other case, it's the wrong choice to make. And so that to me was you know, it just turned me off. That's one of those things. I just don't enjoy found footage as a concept. I just think it's bad. When we got to the beginning of the movie, we got through the 15 different trailers and the 35 minutes of ads and whatnot. I was like, all right, I'm ready. And then we get, I don't know, something like 75 minutes of exposition before we actually start into the story. That was to me unnecessary and a massive disappointment.

SPEAKER_03 14:54

So it sounds like your mind just flipped this switch, like, oh, it's found footage, so it sucks.

SPEAKER_00 15:00

Not at all. I just didn't enjoy the whole idea that we needed it to be found footage because I don't think we did. Plus, I don't need somebody like explaining the setting and the history of what we're gonna be in before we're there. Just show it to me on screen or use dialogue to hint at important details.

SPEAKER_02 15:16

I can see that portion of it, that piece of it. I get the whole found footage kind of style of the film, but I didn't really get a lot of found footage vibes from this movie. Like I didn't really think, like when you look at found footage horror, like, and I know what we're talking about here, I don't feel like I and I don't even have a problem with found footage horror, but I don't feel like I saw that in this. Like, I get the whole TV going off and on the air, and we'll talk about that, but I guess and maybe that's where it plays in the heaviest, but I don't I didn't really put me into that atmosphere as much as other found footage horror movies would have.

SPEAKER_00 15:52

Thankfully they didn't really lean heavily into it. It just which to me made it seem like there was no point in doing it to begin with. Okay, I see.

SPEAKER_03 16:01

You know, Mac, I hate to disagree. I guess.

SPEAKER_01 16:05

Do you?

SPEAKER_03 16:05

I I do hate to disagree. Because okay, here's the thing, right? I think a lot of found footage films, I can absolutely see where that goes. Diary of the Dead, why the fuck do we have a fine foot found footage film of that? It's a bunch of people making a student film during a zombie apocalypse. Okay. This feels though like a very clever way of presenting the idea of found footage, almost archival footage. Almost as if you needed to tap into this thing, this is a weird fucking thing that happened. Here's the master tape of it, and it feels like a really elegant solution to just making some fanciful stitching of here are some portrait mode videos. Okay, we even think about Spree. Spree was another one that is found footage, but technically not found footage, but it's just a live stream from so many different perspectives, and it's assembled. So I don't know, that wasn't a disappointment for me, but I think what I did find a bit of a disappointment for is actually Banks what you were referring to with the elements of a character story in the origin. And did we go too far? Did we not go far enough? And it just hits this really weird note somewhere in the middle that I think really detracts from this being as scary as it possibly could be. I think because there's like this middle ground of like, okay, well, what is it? What's going on? I feel like if they had almost removed that, then I would have felt a little bit more focused on maybe some of the other things that are supposed to build more tension in the movie.

SPEAKER_04 17:33

Yeah, I think that the fright factor here is ultimately really on the shoulders of Lily, who is our, I guess, antagonist, right? The possessed girl. I I think she ultimately is serving some serious looks, okay? That actress, I wouldn't want her to stare at me ever. Don't even look my way.

SPEAKER_01 17:54

She Not after this film.

SPEAKER_04 17:56

Not after this film. She's a frightening gal, okay? So that's the fright factor here. Everything else, it's not traditional. I wouldn't say that there's any jump scares. We can get what, existential here, I guess. Maybe the plight of men. I don't know. They're scary. I I don't know. I I just feel like there isn't so much that kind of side of horror, right? Where you're like getting all of the jump scares or that kind of tension. I didn't feel it so much in this film, but it doesn't make it bad, right? I I thought it was entertaining. But if you are one to not shy away from horror, maybe this is something that you could dabble your feet into after a few other recommendations down the line, maybe not the first one, but a few others to warm you up. I would put this like maybe within maybe top five, like number five on the list to get there.

SPEAKER_03 18:46

This feels like a really good option for people who like horror movies and don't get scared by much, but are with someone who wants to watch something spooky.

SPEAKER_02 18:56

Yeah. It's a good film that I feel like anybody could watch. That's that's really how I feel about it. I feel like it's not the most frightening film. It explores some horrific type of horror movie tropes and different things that we see in a lot of other horror movies and things like that, but I feel like it's delivered in a way that even if you're just not into horror that much, or even if you weren't into possession movies or different things like that, I can still see those people enjoying this film. And I feel like I got a little bit of that vibe just with all of the things I was hearing from so many different people. People that I didn't even know watched horror movies or didn't even express interest in horror movies, but they're just like, Did you see Late Night with the Devil? Oh my god, it was so great, it was so good. And it's not even that people really gave me a whole bunch of information about the movie, it was just always that you gotta see it. It was so great, it was you know different, refreshing, whatever, and I just kept hearing all that stuff. But yeah, I definitely think if you're going into this film expecting this to be a really frightening film, a really scary, like the scariest film of the year, you're probably setting yourself up for that disappointment because honestly, that's not what the film is about. I feel like if you go into this for kind of a good time, maybe a campier exorcist vibe, but not quite evil dead level of camp, and you just just want to have a good time and you allow yourself to just be immersed in what this movie is giving you, I think you'll be alright, but definitely not the most frightening film out there. It has some minor moments, it's unsettling and creepy, maybe frightening, not so much.

SPEAKER_00 20:38

Yeah, defin definitely not scary. In terms of who this is for, I think if you're somebody who seeks out this genre because it affects you, I think you're gonna enjoy this, right? Some people love to go on roller coasters because they're frightened of them, and every time they get on one, it's like a big rush. And so, yeah, if this genre affects you in that way, you're gonna have a good time. If you simply enjoy film and like to see what some masterful minds are able to create, yeah, I think you're gonna have a good time. I don't think you'll be scared. I think that that's gonna be really saved for people who find themselves affected by the genre in general, which is not me, of course.

SPEAKER_03 21:09

And that's what we love about your Mac.

SPEAKER_00 21:11

You know, but I've got to give it credit. You know, it's not scary. Most basically, there's no film so far that we've reviewed that I've said I was scared by, but but it is very different. It is a very unique film. Like I mentioned, it's part of a genre. We get into this whole like possession, supernatural kind of thing, but it's not at the same time. Like the delivery of the movie is so unique. The although I complained about found footage and exposition and everything like that, it's still part of this wrapper, this whole package that delivers something that's actually kind of a small part of the overall story, thankfully, because the rest of it is also very interesting, and it's not like another movie that I have seen anytime recently, even though it talks about a topic we've covered a bazillion times.

SPEAKER_02 21:52

This is true. This is true. I think we need a new category for maybe most original screenplay at the end of the year, because if there's a Nomination, this one probably would have at least a nomination because it's not even because to your point they gave us anything brand new, to be honest with you. It's not like they gave us something like we couldn't comprehend or that just completely mind-blowing as far as concept and things like that, but I think it's the way that they delivered it, the backdrop, the setting they chose to live in. I don't think we I don't think we have seen a found footage style possession film set in 1970s late-night talk show before. You know what I mean? Like we just have not seen anything like that. And I think this film cleverly pays homage to films like The Exorcist and films like that, and finds a way to stand on its own two feet while doing it. So it feels, even though we've seen some of this stuff before, it feels new and it feels different and it feels refreshing.

SPEAKER_04 22:51

And I think a lot of that has to do with what I said earlier in terms of yeah, we've seen possession in paranormal films, we've seen found footage stuff, but those things kind of take a backseat to what's really going on, and that's really cool. And even with that, there are some character arcs that are repetitive in a lot of films. There's there's tropes that we've seen. It's how everything is pieced together, it's how everything unfolds. It all comes down to the production and the setting, the way that it's filmed, the way that the found footage or whatever is kind of dissected, which I can't wait for us to say freely in the spoiler section. All of these things I think makes it original. And that's a genius idea about the n uh an award for the end of the year. I love that.

SPEAKER_03 23:40

We definitely have to keep that in the in mind as we prepare for the rest of the year. And especially now looking at this and even thinking about some of the movies that are coming out. I don't know that this would have many other competitors. Maybe Maxine, actually. Trailer just dropped today, so maybe that'll give it a run for its money. You all said it incredibly well. This movie hits different because it is different. But I think something else that hits really well is the ending. It has this feeling of inevitability. And Sean, this is it's interesting because I think back to what you said earlier about how you let the movie take you for a ride and you didn't quite expect that to happen. I don't know that everything in it was super unexpected to me, but it felt like destiny fulfilled in some ways. It felt satisfying, albeit not surprising. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:33

I think when we get to the climax, that's when the satisfaction really starts, right? There's some stuff going on that when it finally punches you in the face, you're ready for it. And you're just like, hell yeah, this is what I've been waiting this whole time for, delivered in a way that I really enjoy. And then it takes a slight dip, and for for at least for me, and I was kind of bummed out by that dip, it just went off in a weird way, and then it comes back and finally ends everything in in a with a choice that I just I thought was great. It really wrapped everything up in a way that you're excited again about it. That weird kind of slowdown in in intensity was I don't know, it it kind of takes you out for a second, but then it slaps you right in the face with an ending that's sure to leave I don't know a mark in your memories for sure.

SPEAKER_04 25:15

Absolutely. It's definitely ambiguous, and that's fun. And the best cinematography and production design is in the last few minutes of the film for sure. It's fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 25:25

Yeah, I agree. I mean, I really enjoyed the ending to the film. I think, yeah, I don't know how to describe it to what you were saying, Chris, too. Unexpected, yes. I I don't know if it's something that was super shocking, but it was just something that I didn't think that the direction of the film was gonna go in. I feel like the film started to go in a slightly different direction as the events of the third act started to unfold, and that's where I was like, hmm, this is interesting. And I think that it's the type of ending that kind of lingers for a while. It's thought-provoking, it's not obviously not the happiest of endings as you can imagine, but I can see to an extent, and I don't know if you all feel the same way, but I I'm just thinking as like I think about what's happening in this end, and I feel like it could be one of those endings that may be slightly confusing if you're not paying enough attention to what's happening throughout the movie and you're listening to the dialogue and whatnot. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 26:18

Oh, it sounds like there's a lot of overlap for most of our sentiments, and I think there's a few places that we deviate, so I'm excited to see how the ratings look. But for now, before we rate this film, Sean, how would you describe the gore score?

SPEAKER_02 26:29

Despite a couple of moments where we see some stuff, despite someone pulling worms out of their stomach and whatnot, despite IMDB literally rating this movie in the severe category for gore, which is absurd by the way, this film is not the goriest film to watch. I think I actually would love to know which films IMDB does not rate in severe gore, because it seems like everything else seems to be, but the film nonetheless does use some fun practical effects, some decent looking blood and whatnot, but I think overall, when you put it all together, it's still getting a low gore score.

SPEAKER_04 27:05

What about the animal report? So it's a little tough to say here because we don't see any animals being killed per se, but you could imagine some activities certainly took place in which perhaps they were harmed. That being said, there's also a giant snowy owl costume that was awesome. I was super stoked about it, but nothing happens to a snowy owl. So I think I'm just gonna leave it at safe for now.

SPEAKER_03 27:28

Mm-hmm. Questionable if you look too hard, but overall, keep it pushing. Mm-hmm. Well, let's go ahead and get into our ratings then. Late night with the devil from 2024, now streaming on shudder. Was it a hack or a slash?

SPEAKER_00 27:41

I think I'll kick things off because I seem to kind of be the contrarian tonight to the three of you. I'm going down a different path, it seems. I think this film has just like such an interesting idea that for me suffered from some poor choices in execution. Like I mentioned, I think the found footage stick and the excessive exposition, I just wish they had been replaced by just straightforward storytelling. Give us some details along the way, let us piece things together. If it looks like the 70s, if somebody mentions something about the 70s, we'll get that it's the 70s. You don't have to spend 20 minutes telling us that it's in the 1970s. Oddly enough, the best cinematography happens when the film abandons that whole shtick and just focuses on a character's actual experience. There's such a wide variety of acting in this film, from just somebody like truly nailing things for the entire film to others campily overacting every moment they're on screen. There's also a really strange variety in the quality of effects and cinematography, just some of the choices they made that kind of took me out of the time period and made it feel very much like what it is. It's a modern film set in the past to be delivered to a streaming service within a few weeks of release. I enjoyed several of the characters. I was mostly bought into the story, but I feel like just some of the choices they made felt kind of rushed, felt kind of haphazard. And honestly, that whole street to streaming feel here, it's real and it just earned a hack from me.

SPEAKER_02 29:01

Oh. Definitely a different path, I will say. I don't understand like the modern feel to it, because I feel like I did not get that vibe really much throughout the movie. I think for me, this movie is about as refreshing as you can get. Like everything about this film felt familiar yet new and different at the same time. It's late night with the devil bringing you possession horror to 1970s late night TV. It does this not so typical slow burn, unsettling yet campy and silly fashion. To me, it's a horrific tale of greed, of sacrifice, of haunted memories, of deception and deceit, right? Like I loved how the pacing didn't make this slow burn feel slow, right? Like it just felt like no matter what, like it was a slow burn type movie, but it paced really well and it kept you engaged, which is something that's really hard to do. I loved how the acting, silly or not, kept you focused and really sucked into every scene, how the set design, the visual effects totally immerse you into that 70s vibe for me. This film was, to me, such a pleasant surprise, especially in a genre or a subgenre that feels like everything has been rinse and repeat for so, so long. And even though it has nods and pays homage to some of my favorite horror films, I haven't seen anything quite like this before. I mean, even Stephen King himself went out of his way to praise this film, so it must be good. And I'll hail the king because this one is a slash.

SPEAKER_04 30:40

I'll hail the king indeed. Alright, well, I mentioned earlier that I've already seen this twice in theaters. I gotta say though, when it first premiered, I left the theater feeling like it was a good movie, but honestly not as passionate about it. The second time is what really solidified my thoughts on the film and drove home how great and layered it was. And I think a lot of that has to do with the importance of keeping an eye out on the little things and what's not explicitly said but done, especially with our main character and and what he chooses to do. This is not a possession film. I keep reiterating that. I think it's a lot more sinister than what it seems on the surface level. Sean, you said it fantastically. It's definitely about greed and fame and all of these other tropes that I think is not expected, but in definitely enjoyed. And so what is a shame about this film? Again, I I mentioned it earlier, it's a shame that they used AI, even though, albeit very, very s shortly, because I think it cheapened the whole film a little bit and just ruined the reputation. I think that's what I'm noticing right now in terms of the landscape and the discourse surrounding this film. But if you can make peace with that and whatnot, or maybe even set it aside, I would say that this is a really great film, very original and very captivating. So for me, I gotta say it's definitely a slash, a certified slash, because it captivated me, even if it wasn't for the first time, but it's the rewatch value here that makes it so.

SPEAKER_03 32:13

And there really is something to be said about that rewatch value, Binks, because this film is a film that just gets it. It paints a really weird scenario against the backdrop of a time when Satanic Panic was gearing up for full-blown explosion in the 80s. So this is a really interesting moment in history to set this film. It has characters that win you over with charm, give you a few laughs, and even infuriate you in some moments, but regardless of what you're feeling, they're all making you give a damn about what's gonna happen next. And that feels so good in a horror movie. There are moments that shocked me for sure, moments that chilled me, and there are moments that absolutely hooked me on the premise it was peddling. It's undoubtedly, unequivocally, absolutely a slash. And with that, late night with the devil has earned one hack in three slashes. Now you can find this movie streaming on Shudder, so go check it out, and we're gonna dive into the spoiler zone together, but not before we hear from our sponsors.

SPEAKER_04 33:22

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SPEAKER_02 34:36

Well, give or take, alright, bear with me on this one because I'm gonna go with a kill count of somewhere around 16. And I'm gonna say 16 because we just don't know how many of those Diablo church members burned alive inside of that church. You know what I mean? There was definitely more than Diablo himself. So I feel like if we go with maybe 10 plus the six people that we actually know for sure die throughout the film, then I think I'm gonna be safe and just say 16, but don't hold me to that. All right, don't hold me to that one.

SPEAKER_04 35:15

That's a creative twist to that. I wasn't expecting you to factor that in, but that's such a good point.

SPEAKER_02 35:20

We are shown it. We're shown it on fire.

SPEAKER_04 35:23

That's true. And it's said that literally she was the only one left alive, so right, right.

SPEAKER_03 35:29

Absolutely terrific stuff. Sean always goes the extra mile here, and we appreciate that.

SPEAKER_02 35:33

There are a handful that we can really dive into, right? There's definitely some that we can talk about.

SPEAKER_03 35:40

I just want to go for the most satisfying one because fuck that guy, Carmichael.

SPEAKER_00 35:44

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 35:45

I think we all picked him, didn't we? I should have seen it coming.

SPEAKER_00 35:49

Yeah, uh no. Okay, Carmichael was great and all, but Gus's was yeah, I think one of the most like in-your-face kills because one, it's a character that you don't hate, right? Like Carmichael, you're kind of like that guy's a douche. Finish him off in some kind of really satisfying way. But Gus seems to be generally pretty decent, and then he gets just like a really brutal death. He gets the traditional head 180. Yeah, and usually that's reserved for the possessed person. And in this case, nah, we got the Casper, the friendly ghost treatment here. It was game over, like real quick, which is both sad, but that's also good for making an emotional impact when you're watching a movie.

SPEAKER_03 36:32

We technically saw him die twice, or at least mostly on his way to fake dying with the fucking worms exploding from his head and his body.

SPEAKER_02 36:40

The worms.

SPEAKER_03 36:41

Yeah, there was so much happening there with the worms. And I wrote in my notes, even with the expectation that it wasn't really happening, I was like, man, Gus doesn't deserve this. And then next thing you know, he's dead for real. I'm like, shit, he really didn't deserve this either.

SPEAKER_04 36:57

Yeah. Double homicide. It was terrible. I gotta talk about those worms though, because I wrote down on my notes since I'm like obsessed with Dune at this point. I was like, oh wow, shy halud reference, you know, like the worms from Dune. I was like, wow, this is great. Cameo. I was here for it.

SPEAKER_02 37:14

Not the worm cameo.

SPEAKER_04 37:17

I'm just saying.

SPEAKER_03 37:18

I'm just saying. It's giving tremors.

SPEAKER_02 37:20

Tremors, yeah. Throw anything. I mean, this could be the worm I threw on the pier the other day to go fishing. You just don't know. It's making its comeback. But yeah, the worms aside, I think Gus definitely, I'm with you, Mac. Gus was one of my top kills just because, even as quick as it is, it's obviously just in true exorcist fashion. It's like the best nod to horror in the entire film, in my opinion. It's a nod to the godfather of all possession films, and I just love that reference there. But I think also, man, June's death was pretty wild. She gets what, like hung by the crucifix in the air and then slowly just slits her throat open. That is pretty hardcore. That one was a pretty good kill.

SPEAKER_03 38:06

My heart broke for her, and I just wanted nothing more than for her to be able to survive.

SPEAKER_02 38:10

I know. That's so true. And she was fighting all of the events that were happening. Like, she did not want to do this. She knew that it wasn't the right moment, the right time to do this shit. No one listened because everyone's a selfish piece of shit. You know what I mean? And it's all about the ratings. It's all about the ratings and saving my show, you know what I mean? And look what happened. June gets the shit end of the stick.

SPEAKER_04 38:34

The difference between June and I, although I definitely feel for her, I would have waited zero seconds. No one's gonna convince me of staying. I'm going to get up and I'm going to leave.

SPEAKER_00 38:47

I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 38:48

That's point blank, period. And if I had to take out my changleta and hit Lily and to get your ass up and we're leaving right now, then so be it. Okay? I'm sorry, but so be it. We would have left. But more importantly, what I want to know is sometimes when we get kills like this, and I not that we get them often, but these crucifix kills, the chains, what are they made out of? Because that is some serious stuff. That's a serious sterling silver.

SPEAKER_02 39:16

Some serious shit right there. Every chain like that that I've ever had breaks pretty easily, you know what I mean? Like you could literally rip it off of your neck. But listen, maybe there's some crazy supernatural force that's holding that fucking chain link together, that soft precious metal together, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 39:34

We'll give it that. It has to be that. The other one that I think is just real not great and very sad is Minnie's or Madeline's, I guess, you know, like watching that slowly happen. When then obviously stabbed, but like, gosh, she does not look good. It was real heartbreaking.

SPEAKER_02 39:55

No matter which way you look at her death, it's just sad in every which way you can look at her death and the progression of her death.

SPEAKER_05 40:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:04

And that's like another thing, like when you're watching this film and they're introducing maybe to your point, Mac, you don't want to hear like the stage setup of everything and the narration part, but they give you that information that she dies of lung cancer as a non-smoker, and it's like at that moment, you're like, that's a interesting thing to just say.

SPEAKER_04 40:26

Yeah. Because unfortunately, we know that yes, the people sometimes have lung cancer and maybe have never smoked in their lives, but it's bringing that up specifically that makes you think, okay, I'm gonna keep that in mind for later. And then when it's revealed, right? That it's oh boy, this bastard.

SPEAKER_02 40:46

It was revealed, but I feel like it was she was so far removed from what you're watching for just long enough for that to slip your mind until it was actually given to you at the end. Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 41:01

Here's why I couldn't forget this shit. Because all I could think about when I saw her was Padme dying as Anakin was becoming Darth Vader. And the theory that Emperor Palpatine was siphoning her life force. Oh Lord. And using that to build Anakin.

SPEAKER_02 41:18

Crazy.

SPEAKER_03 41:19

That's all I could think about. Behind every man is a woman who deserved better.

SPEAKER_04 41:23

Okay. This is a great segue, actually, to bring up something that a friend and I were talking about. Maybe he've discovered this on Twitter or people that he follows and stuff, and he brought up that perhaps this kill in particular is very reminiscent of Rosemary's Baby in the sense that Jack is Guy, in a sense. This movie is Guy's perspective, in a way, where you know, makes a deal to become famous and become a great actor in Rosemary Baby's case, who ends up being distraught and basically almost dying, Rosemary, in this case Madeline. I thought that was pretty interesting. I don't think there I don't think it's necessarily apples to apples. I think there's definitely some some differences, but it's not that bad of a take.

SPEAKER_02 42:08

There's some there, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:10

But what is it if not poetry that fucking rhymes? Like that's literally any movie where you have boneheaded decision by a husband, wife ends up suffering because of it. So we can reduce it down in a lot of different ways, but even just looking at the dynamic of marriage in the 1970s and looking at what the family unit still looked like, or looking at the rights women did and did not have in the 70s, I think it's all relevant. So it's subtextual, sure. It's not apples to apples, but it is in the same conversation. I love that.

SPEAKER_02 42:45

But let's also, before we move past kills, let's talk about Madeline's kill that actually also turns into Lily's kill at the end.

SPEAKER_05 42:56

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:57

Because man, that was a crazy turn of events, right? They're giving you all of this shit. We're just we're diving into this a little bit now. Jack selfishly chooses to make this deal with this demon, entity, devil, whatever, to become famous, to resurrect his show, to be a top-rated late night TV show, talk show, whatever, makes this maybe not knowing. I don't know what your take is, maybe not knowing what the sacrifice he was actually going to be making really was, and then it's coming to fruition now for him. Maybe it's only coming to fruition now for us as viewers, but that whole deception is the piece that I get. The devil loves to be deceitful, right? And I feel like playing tricks and things like that, this is the ultimate deceit. You're really stripping this person of his loved one. He has to sacrifice that to get what he wants, and then when he gets what he wants, man, he has to sacrifice everything because now he's fucked. He has just now. Killed this girl on live fucking television.

SPEAKER_04 44:03

And Lily foreshadows that at the beginning when she's like, I bet you're gonna be very, very famous. But despite that, somehow I still did not anticipate that by him killing the wife, that it was when he grabs that knife and stabbed Madeline that I was like, oh shit, I think that's gonna be Lily. Now, it was just slightly disappointing, just because I kind of wish I had seen that though. Like I kind of had wished to see Lily die. I feel like I'm Sean wanting, you know, give me more of this girl's death. Yeah, not fuck them kids, but I think I just really loved the actress that plays Lily and and her acting that I think I would have just liked to have seen how she would have portrayed that, regardless, despite the foreshadowing. Somehow I was still shocked. It was great.

SPEAKER_00 44:52

I loved that moment. And that was part like when we see all the action happening, we get the climax, things are going well, we dip into he's not sure what reality is. It kind of slowed down from there, story-wise, at least, and was kind of like, okay, let's get through this. When he stabs her in the gut, I was like, where are they gonna go from here? Because I don't know, is the movie almost over? I feel like there's still stuff to figure out, and then it cuts to her, and I was like, Oh, brilliant, masterful choice. That was great because it's clear at that point that everyone else is either dead or they've fled, and that he's gonna be streaming or broadcasting, I should say, and that's what the viewers are gonna see is him stabbing her, and he got his wish, he got the thing he traded his soul for, which was to be like that highly viewed and to be the most well-known. And it's such a perfect little wrap-up in a nice Faustian tale. It's just there's so much to love about that, and it made a lot of things worth it in that moment, in that one tiny little moment for me, to where he realizes what he's done and what the cost truly was the entire time.

SPEAKER_04 45:56

Great that you brought up the viewers as well. I was almost anticipating that they were gonna die, also, truthfully. And the way that the film was marketed kind of made it seem like a lot more people were gonna die in that studio. I'm surprised that they all made it out, truthfully. Chris Dew's the only one that, you know, he left, but he died. But he died on his way out. And you know, what a shame for Chris Dew.

SPEAKER_01 46:22

It was.

SPEAKER_04 46:22

Yeah, I don't know. That accent was rough, but whatever.

SPEAKER_00 46:25

The accent was rough on purpose. We'll get to that in characters, but I'm with you on the audience because I for sure I was like, they're gonna lock the doors. This demon thing is gonna block them all from leaving. They're either all gonna burn or just get killed one by one. I was waiting for that moment to happen with this mass casualty thing, and it didn't happen. The demon just let everybody run out. I guess they were fast enough, or it was distracted, maybe.

SPEAKER_02 46:48

It was on a mission, it had a specific purpose. It wasn't here trying to mass kill everybody, and I'm with you. I think I expected more kills from the audience, maybe more kills from the production crew and things like that. And I was even like watching that ending scene, and I'm like frantically looking around to see are there bodies on the floor that I didn't see? Are there just people that are dead and we just didn't get to see it? And no, there really wasn't. It was just Lily. Everyone else got out, apparently, or left the room, or what have you. And you know, I'm not mad at it though. I'm not mad at it at all. I think it didn't need to have all of that, to be honest with you. I think if they threw all of that at the end, it would have been a lot, especially if it came from when Lily was like really showing whatever form it was. Like, don't go down like this bright burn path, you know what I mean? Don't go down this path of just like having this weird glowing power and like lasering people to death and weird shit like that, because that also would have been terrible.

SPEAKER_00 47:48

I did mention, however, that right before the final shot in this movie, that we get that big change in cinematography, and I just love so much about when our main character is now trapped in this like miniature hell and doesn't know what's going on, suddenly the film is beautiful in ways that I absolutely loved. Cinematography is one of them, of course, but everything about that just visually is so appealing to me because if we got to let go of the idea that this had to be found footage, it's like completely not important because we're inside his head. And so everything we're looking at can be rapidly changing from one scene to the next. And that was actually really fun too. We're in a scene that we saw referenced earlier. That could be him acting on stage in a little skit, and then he just cuts to something else, and we get these rapid cuts in succession. And just that entire segment there was like this is brilliant. Everything about this I love to look at, whether it's the cuts, whether it's the cinematography, the change of camera angles and framing, all of that was so good visually.

SPEAKER_02 48:49

Yeah, there's a lot there visually for sure. I think we can talk about the different moments of really great cinematography and editing and different things like that. I also think from a visual standpoint, because obviously there's some ups and downs when we break down everything that added to the movie visually, but I do think for me, the set design, the costume design, like all of that, it's not that it was like super impressive, like it's not something that you're gonna be like best set design, best costume design ever made in movies. Like it's not getting any Oscars by any means, but I do think that the costume design and the set design and and how they brought 1970s to life was just subtle enough that it just worked and it felt natural. Like I didn't feel like it was trying to be something over the top. I didn't feel like that, like they didn't really mess up a whole lot visually, or if anything, that really took me out of it. So for me, when we're talking about visual aspects of the movie as well, I think that you have to give it some credit for what it was able to do with bringing this kind of time period piece, if you will, to life.

SPEAKER_03 50:01

Absolutely, and that's where I go back again to how successful House of the Devil was for capturing the essence and the spirit of an 80s film. And this is really capturing 70s television, right? And I just think that's so fucking special. And what I love most about this, and even beyond just the aesthetics of it, but even the way that they navigate their sound design, there's so much happening on this set. This is a chaotic place, a chaotic scene. You have people who are breaking and doing their countdowns and trying to reset, and we have people delivering messages. Every nook and cranny of this movie feels so authentic to that experience. And it's in particular for me watching this in a theater and hearing just the layering and that sound design, absolutely incredible.

SPEAKER_04 50:49

I want to go back to something that Mac mentioned earlier, which is like this whole found footage thing. Because here's where I'm gonna agree with Mac, actually, or or pose a question rather. The reason that I struggle with this being like a found footage film, but is it really, is because yes, ultimately we're watching, or we're supposed to be the viewer that is watching a late night TV show. And in some capacity, it's almost like, well, how is that really found footage per se? Because it's just how it's formatted ultimately. It's it'd be no different if we were just watching it play out. But then we go to the behind the scenes, which is we know is behind the scenes because it's black and white. It's the way that they do that part though that is curious because it's obviously somebody carrying a camera that is behind the scenes recording these things, but that person is not perceived whatsoever. That person holding that camera is in intimate conversations, like full on in these conversations, and no one is even looking at that camera at all, or that person that's holding the camera at all. I think Jack looks at them twice, but why would you want a camera recording you saying that this guy died and keep it going? You know what I mean? So that's where it's like, okay, so it's not a found footage in a way, because that's what I mean. No one is perceiving this person holding the camera, right? No, I right, exactly. And then obviously at the end, which is Mac your favorite part, right? Where it's like, throw the whole thing away. Now the film is just full on widescreen. We're just, you know, we are here present. We are Jack in a way, although it breaks the fourth wall. I think that that's really cool. So that's where I'm like, man, I don't want people to necessarily feel like this is a found footage film because it really barely is, in a sense.

SPEAKER_00 52:38

It didn't need to be. There was no reason.

SPEAKER_04 52:41

Okay, fair. And then if it's gonna be a third, then maybe it didn't need to be. I can see that. I think it's more of like the artistic element than necessarily like plot-wise.

SPEAKER_00 52:49

But that artistic element was a great choice going to black and white when we're not live. I actually loved that. That was a lot of fun. I'm always here for black and white if it's dung well.

SPEAKER_04 52:59

Okay, nice.

SPEAKER_00 53:00

Like the you're in living color now.

SPEAKER_04 53:03

I loved it. But yeah, I just think although how they did it was so great and unique because ultimately we would have probably just seen someone addressing, you know, the guy holding the mic or the camera and being like, get out of here, and then the person hiding behind a curtain and us having to overhear, like they were like, let's not do those kinds of dramatics. So I thought that was pretty refreshing. But in terms of my favorite production elements, of course, it's gonna be the set design, but I wanna get a little more granular with it because it ties into my favorite scene really, and it's that last moment where he's in his delirium, things are just hitting the fucking fan, specifically when he is in this cult room. And it's my favorite scene because of course now we fully understand what it is that he's done while still barely remembering that he was a part of a cult to begin with. I feel like that was kind of glossed over. We can get to that in a second, but love how everybody's crowded around him. A massive snowy white owls there, and I was like, that's my shit, it's my favorite. I thought the costuming in that scene was so good. And then when the doors open and it's his wife, still in this like late night set, because you can see the iconic 70s little vibe or the swirlies and the walls and stuff, he even sits down on a chair as if he is basically interviewing his wife on her deathbed. That chair is the same chair that he sits on when he's interviewing guests. I was like, it's the details. So freaking good. They thought of everything, and you really like then it really then hits you how he is a product of his selfishness and and the product of this occult and the similarities between him and Lily. Can't wait to dive into that a little bit more.

SPEAKER_03 54:48

Oh, not the devil being in the details. Oh, most certainly.

SPEAKER_00 54:52

Most certainly. I'm I'm gonna go back to uh something you mentioned earlier, and that's worms, because that group hip hypnosis, while ridiculous, was my favorite scene. It was incredible because it seemed like we're gonna get something very simple, like he's gonna do hypnosis, we're gonna see him tell him he's a banana, or is that a Martian, or something really ridiculous? No, they're just having a conversation, then worms start coming out of him. Because I think it made a lot of viewers, because it had this effect in me, wonder oh, wait, is that demon who's possessed this little girl making something crazy happen in real life just to prove that it can or just for fun? And I was like, oh, they wouldn't really? This is how they're gonna go? This is crazy, it's incredible, it's awesome, but I didn't see it coming, and then we find out, no, no, that's not what happened. Play back the tape. It was all part of this hypnosis, and this is just proving my point. And I'm like, oh, that's actually kind of a fun little twist. I just the whole scene was not something I saw coming, and so I have to give her credit just for that.

SPEAKER_03 55:52

The group hypnosis was so good, even though I I love to hate him. I really enjoyed Carmichael's spin on this entire thing and just going the extra mile. This is what I imagine, except Mac is not obnoxious and fucking infuriating when we think about like Mac giving a very rational, logical explanation for any kind of situation that's just a little bit bizarre. And I'm like, you know what, Carmichael? If you're less of a dick, this would actually be a really interesting TV situation. I would love to watch this shit unfold. But my favorite scene actually comes before that, and it is the demonstration with Lily, specifically because we get to the point where June absolutely slaps her, then you're like, oh shit. Oh, JK is the 70s, it's okay to slap kids on TV, probably.

SPEAKER_02 56:42

Totally fine, totally fine.

SPEAKER_03 56:44

Yeah, totally fine. But I then had this moment of like, oh man, she's levitating. This felt like a big deal. Like, this was like, how did how does anyone look at this and it not feel legitimate? I would absolutely shit my pants if I were in that studio audience. Obviously, not in modern day, but like in the 70s, are you kidding me? Come on, for sure. So I loved seeing that not only the first time we get it though, but Mac after the hypnosis scene, when Lily points out, well, Jack, maybe we should watch the other tape. And then it actually still is very much there. I absolutely loved it.

SPEAKER_02 57:22

Yeah, I think overall, you're all talking about probably some of the best scenes in the film. I think the whole Gus hypnosis scene, obviously, with the worm guts is great, and the whole playback the tape thing is brilliant, and and just being able to see all of that play out is great. The possession scene with Lily the first time, super cool, super great. I think maybe another fun scene to talk about would be when we do get to see Chris do, right? And how he's like trying to. It was the campiness and the silliness of it all with him trying to like fish for the information, but really stumbling a lot and really stretching far to try to figure out like, oh, do I hear this? Oh yeah, maybe, oh it might yeah, I had somebody in my family that was named this, but not really that, but kind of like this. It was that whole play that I thought was just hilarious, and I think it just added some really fun, silly moments to the film. Then going into the serious and emotional bit, and then into like the crazy, serious bit with calling for Minnie and the way his eyes rolled in the back of his head, and you gotta wonder, it was a weird, really strange progression. It felt like I don't really have anything going on, then I kinda do, and now I have this crazy shit going on, and you gotta wonder, maybe he was just a fake the whole time, and this was just obviously like the demon channeling through this person just to fuck with you on TV and just to really give you a show.

SPEAKER_03 58:53

That would be absolutely hilarious. I do think there's some small, small amount of sincerity to Christ do, not with the performances he had earlier, right? There is that broad reach that, okay, what are we doing? And I actually really appreciated that we see Carmichael later talking to the women who were related to Edmund and finding out that there was someone in the lobby or with the audience asking questions and then feeding that information later on. And it's interesting because it's those kind of things. And I was actually just watching Ouija Origin of Evil a few days ago, and looking at the idea of people who can commune with the dead or talk to spirits and all this, and there are people out there I think who who rip off people and you know have scams, but then there are people who just seek to give people comfort to help them let go or process. The situation with Edmund seemed like one of those moments. Obviously, not in front of a TV studio audience. Obviously, you're here to make a name for yourself, obviously you're here for a little bit of fame, but I think looking at that exchange between them and seeing in particular the quality of the performances from the women in the audience, it just had this really sentimental feeling of, damn, I didn't walk into this movie for these kind of feelings.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:13

Oh, Chris Due, the great Chris Due. I mean, I I think it's time to start talk talking about some of these characters because there's a lot to say about Chris Due. And I think you're right. I think if Chris Due somehow had some sort of empathic abilities, he wasn't using them for his show. He was using some other skills for for his show, for his character. The whole accent thing was a put-on. He lost the accent as soon as he started getting real stuff getting beamed into his head, right? It was like boom, break that character right away, and now I just need to get the information out as fast as possible because something real is happening. But when he's chatting with them, I'm getting Long Island medium vibes, you know, coming from him. It's like this isn't gonna hurt anybody. And then, like you said, Chris, like maybe I'm helping people, and by doing that, they're gonna tell other people, and then they're gonna come to my shows, and this is how my career's gonna work. And maybe secretly at home, yeah, I talk to ghosts here and there, or I get a I get something that turns out to be true beamed in my head once in a while. But this exaggerated act that he's he's got, this is this is for money. This is to make his ends meet. It was brilliant, I think, to have him turn out not to be a complete charlatan. Uh, I think that was a lot of fun. Whether or not he actually had skills, or it was literally a demon just messing around and having a a bit of fun. That moment where it was like accent dropped and eyes rolling back and all that going on, I was like, oh heck yeah, I'm here for it. Because one, we're all assuming this guy's just faking up until this point. And then two, he now cannot fake it. This is the thing that you thought you were gonna be able to skate by with, and the demons just sitting over going, like, okay, your wish is my command, here you go.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:51

Yeah, can we really just talk about the absolute projection of black tar vomit? Listen, y'all. Last week I was pretty sick, I was thrown up in the middle of my fucking bedroom for like two days. I felt like Chris 2 in that moment.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:07

Terrible.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:08

Spouting. Mine was yellow, not black, but still.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:11

Yeah, that's better than black for sure.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:14

Not pleasant at all. For me with Chris 2, it was just the C. Like I was like, buddy, are you are you Hispanic? Or is it like what's happening here? Where are you from, bro? What's good? Because why otherwise? That's just a trope that I don't find necessary personally, but whatever. I guess that's fine. But it fits for him because yeah, when it's ultimately revealed that, okay, wait a minute, there's uh something actually going on, down to obviously seeing Madeline in the room later on when you're doing the that slow cut, it's like, oh, okay, for sure. Yeah, whether he had the skills or not, she was knocking at that door, or it was the devil, right? Playing around using Madeline as a as a way to fuck around with everybody. So I thought that was real fun for sure. So I I wanna pose this now because I feel like it might be a a pretty good discussion, but I I mentioned my favorite scene, obviously being revealed that Jack made this deal with the cult. My question to you all is did we really need to have the cult thing in this film? Him being a member of the cult? I would say yes, because that's how you have these similarities between him and Lily, where obviously Lily is a victim of the cult but is perceived as the antagonist, where and really Jack, who is a member of the cult, is the actual antagonist. So that's fun. But my but what I struggle with is in the 20 minutes of con of context that we get the or exposition in the beginning, like you were saying, Mac, it's said so quickly, and then Carmichael goes up to him and is like, Hey, let me get into that cult so I can have an orgy or some shit like that. And Jack like brushes it off, like it's just said very, very briefly that it's almost like, Okay, what? So, what does this cult do? What are they about? And all of a sudden I'm seeing a massive owl and I'm like, my favorite animal, but why?

SPEAKER_03 1:04:11

I have a lot of thoughts on this that I think aren't gonna be the most organized stream of consciousness I've ever had on this show. But try to follow me on this journey. One, I think they did not explore it to the depth that I would have liked for me to feel satisfied by the cult angle and then also the devil com commuting, things like that. I think as it is in the movie, it's just not quite enough. Now table that. I do wish they had played a little bit more into it, not a ton, but I need some more like conscious, like really selling of it because Jack is spoken to as if he's part of this. We know, and it's revealed later, that he was a part of this. It's almost as though he is so detached from it because that's not who he really is, and a more like character centerground that it becomes a little bit too ambiguous. But here's the one thing that I do like we look at men in power, and we especially look at men in media. Look at everything that's happened since 2019. We had Black Christmas 2019, that which tackles on the idea of toxic masculinity and how much is sacrificed, or how are women sacrificed for the advancement of men and them being able to keep and hold their power. In some ways, I really love the angle here and how it's taken. And I almost love how oblivious Jack is because it's like, yeah, you fucking idiot. Yeah, you fucking idiot. You can't be bothered to even like question what kind of struggle or sacrifice someone else is making because you are on your pedestal and you don't you do not have an accurate view of the world around you because all you're focused on is your lane, your yards on the football field. Whatever the fuck. So on paper, it's like a great concept for me. But I almost feel like Jack is too good. I don't dislike him, but I feel like he's almost too good in the sense that he seems so oblivious to everything, and it almost makes it feel like he's a little detached from the cult itself. Like he's too dismissive of it.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:22

Sure. And this is why I have trouble with the way they framed this whole movie and choosing to do it as found footage or whatever, just focusing on the actual show itself. Because it would have been really easy and really quick to start the movie off with cult members walking into the woods, hooded, hidden, maybe doing some sort of chant, maybe saying some stuff. And later on in the film, when it's mentioned, we've heard the tall trees comment to have that kind of reveal flashback, even though I hate flashbacks, it would have been really effective to flashback to his hood being lifted as he's making the sacrifice and making his bargain and reveal the entire time that person we saw in the beginning was actually him. I think that would have been. Yeah, he killed somebody anyway, moving on. And it's like, no, no, no, that's kind of a big detail to throw out about a character. And in my book, at least it is. It's not like he enjoys long walks on the beach or something. It's like a really defining trait that this dude was in a cult that went into the Redwoods. That's pretty strange. And to mention that in passing, I focus on that the entire time.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:56

Max said it's giving deal breaker, not red flag.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:59

Indeed. Indeed.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:01

It just didn't make too much sense for me, though. Is it goes back to what you were saying, Chris, as far as him being so good? Because it's like, sir, how could you be so shocked that this is as a result of the shit that you did? Did you just forget that you made this pact, buddy? Did you just forget that this is something that you said when you brought someone who is possessed by a demon onto your show and they look at you dead in the face and say, I know you, light bulbs aren't clicking? Like at that moment you're not panicking. Insert shocked Pikachu meme here. Oh, for sure. And then what's crazy and what really works is that he's painted as someone who really loves his wife, who's looking at her endearingly, but he's looking at her and must know that he sacrificed her, right? To be able to continue on. So much so that he you would think. Because, well, he must not love his wife too too much because he's already taking advantage of June to go ahead and throw her under the bus also to get what he wants.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:06

He loves the idea of his wife, but at the end of the day, he trot out his dying wife on television to gain points in the ratings, and he still fell a point behind his top competitor.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:18

Yeah. There's something off-putting about him in general throughout the movie, but I do get where you're coming from. The film dances this fine line between giving you the information you need and then really giving you enough of the information that you need. And so there's some parts that I think are handled well, and then we're all talking about parts that we may feel like we should have gotten a little bit more of, and maybe they tried to do a little bit too much in those instances. Maybe they tried to add a little bit too much depth to the story, and maybe it didn't need to be there. But trying to sit here and figure out like how they would have gotten to their end result without what they gave us is, you know, obviously another tough feat to try to figure out.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:02

So I'll tell you what I wish we had more of, and that was June in the moment that she slapped Lily.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:09

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:10

Because that I think spoke to who June actually is. You all paint June out to be this angel, right? She wrote a book and was publishing a book about her. She agreed to bring her on stage on a broadcast, live broadcast TV show. So I don't know that her intentions are a thousand percent angelic. I think there's a little bit of self-serving behavior going on there with June, and so we can't paint her to be this complete perfect, nice person who only just cares about Lily. I just I don't buy it.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:42

That's the T, because in reality, are we saying someone who's been digmatized? I think so.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:49

Yep, there it is. But that's the thing. That's what's so great about the characters in this movie is that no one is fucking perfect. Even Gus is a little obnoxious, and he's the sweetest sweetheart in all the land in this movie. Yeah. The reality is that this movie doesn't try to paint the picture of okay, these are the good guys, these are the bad guys. Everyone honestly is a little shitty. Even Lily is a kid. You would think there's some innocence there.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:16

Nope.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:16

Clearly, some fucked up stuff with Lily. Lily stares into the camera like she's Jim from the office. And if she's innocent and everything else, that's her fucking red flag.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:24

For sure. Huge red flag. There's no way if that girl is staring at me from across the room that I'm feeling comfortable in any which way at all.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:34

I'm telling you.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:35

Even if the actor did overact quite a bit with playing Lily, especially in those moments of looking at the camera. It's pure camp. It was so cheesy.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:43

Yeah, but I think that's what this movie's trying to give you. I think even when we look at we look at all of the characters, right? I think we see a little bit of that in everyone, and I think some people deliver it a little bit better than others, right? I think Christie was a little over the top, but you still I think a lot of that was intentional. I think Lily for sure. Carmichael for sure. I think obviously inspired by the late great James Randy, but also got some Orson Wells to him. You know what I mean? I I saw some Orson Wells there, but just really over the top, really just I don't know, very animated in the way he spoke. I kind of enjoyed it. I didn't take it super seriously the whole time. I just took it as like a wild ride.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:27

I also want to give one shout out to Phil, who worked on the production team onset, and there's a quote that reminded me of the Incredibles. He says, Where's my sacrificial dagger? And he reminded me of where's my super suit.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:41

That's fantastic. But you just reminded me of something. Throughout the film, there's a few moments there where Phil is talking to his team somewhere else, and they keep saying that they don't see what they're seeing. Isn't that interesting? Whatever they're seeing on screen, they do not see. I don't again, I don't know much about production on that front, but who he's talking to, where they would be, I don't know. But it's very interesting because it's almost like whatever the demon is doing, it's very centralized in that space.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:10

Yeah. It's because you also have the control room. So like wherever you have in the studio, okay, you have a separate room that is actually controlling and switching all the cameras. All you have on set. That's where he's talking about the lights, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:13:22

And things like that. Okay. So it's interesting that he's talking to them, like trying, like getting upset, and it's like, buddy, I'm telling you, I don't know what you're talking about. Everything's cool. Everything's cool. I thought that was quite interesting.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:35

I think in the end, it's all gonna be played out like on TV, the viewer's just gonna see that this dude just went crazy and killed people.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:42

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:43

And the actual supernatural stuff doesn't show up correctly.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:46

I mean, yeah, for sure. That's a that's definitely an angle.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:49

Which is why I think I enjoy that this is from the 70s, because if you do this movie the exact same, but it's a late night show in modern day, all it takes is one person on X to say, What the fuck is this guy doing?

SPEAKER_02 1:14:03

Oh no. Yep.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:05

Which just last quick thing is shout out David Delsmachian for truthfully, because it's been a wild ride, man. This guy has been in a lot of fucking movies. I I rattled off a few, and that's just that's the tip of the iceberg. The guy was in the dark night, okay? He's in everything, and he finally has his moment to shine. This is his fame. And I gotta say, for all the ways that Jack needs to fuck off because he's a terrible person, he did a great job acting like him, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:39

I really enjoyed his performance. He's certainly one of the highlights of the film, but can I tell you what is the absolute worst fucking part of this movie for me? When he's going through his little purgatory moment, he's feels like he's in limbo. A woman pulls a fucking worm out, and that worm looks like it should be on baddragon.com.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:59

If you know, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:01

Oh that was a big thick 'em. That was a thick boy worm.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:05

Dude, what the fuck was that thing, dude? Shy hallooed.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:10

It was the eraser head of worms.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:12

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:14

It's the something head of worms. It's a great segue to my worst part, which is gonna be those AI stills, because honestly, Fiverr. I I could you could hire anybody, bro. Truthfully, a high schooler could have probably done a better job of prompting. And then if you're gonna AI something, maybe just AI that worm. I don't know. Just figure it out, but but do a much better job than that.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:35

Don't AI the worm. We want the practical effect worm, you know. We want the stupid, ugly, dumb looking worm. We do. But I get you on that. I think, Chris, you were talking about it because I don't have a whole lot of gripes with this film. The AI stuff I get, like, I I align with like we don't want to replace jobs and things like that, but it didn't bother me visually. I think the thing is that give me a little bit more substance as to what is happening with this dude and why it's happening. I think even to the point of man, it would have been cool if we got a little bit of like late-night talk show dialogue between this demon and Jack. If there was just a little bit more conversation back and forth, would have been really cool. Maybe that's how they explore a little bit of their history. I don't know. I think that would have been cool. I feel like they almost got there because Lily was like, was I think it was Lily or somebody was saying some stuff that Jack was starting to get uncomfortable with, and then they went to a commercial break or what have you. And I think, man, that would have been a cool piece, but missed opportunity, maybe, I don't know, maybe that's not what the what they wanted to do, what they wanted to give, but that was my gripe with the film.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:47

And I don't have to state a gripe because I've already done that the entire time. So I get to state, I think, talking about the the best part of this movie, and it's something that Pink's already mentioned, and that's the performance there, right? I think while watching this, you have to wonder, can this person actually host a late night talk show? Would they be is it believable or not? Because if it's not believable, you're not bought in for the rest of the movie. And when we finally get to see him on screen, I'm thinking, actually, yeah, I could kind of see this guy like in the 1970s having a late night talk show. And as we go further, he's able to like deal with some like really crappy stuff in real life. And then as soon as we hear, all right, we're ready in five, four, boom, he switches right back into character. And then when we're dealing with the supernatural stuff, when we're doing the stuff that's affecting him personally, you just you buy into the character, and I think that performance was fantastic. I love the man and ant-man, I think he did a great job. That's just that's really where I know him from. But yeah, I think that performance was enough for me to just really get bought into this movie from the start.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:52

And I think his performance is actually why I am so excited to watch this movie again, especially with what Bingsa shared, not only about his layered performance, but about how much there is to pick up on things and all these small details. Now that it's actually streaming, I can't wait to dive back in.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:11

Yeah, absolutely. I'm so happy that I saw this twice in theaters. It's a great theater experience, but nonetheless, so excited that it's now streaming. Shout out to Shudder because I'm impressed with the quality, that's for sure. But for me personally, having already seen it twice, I'm gonna give it some time, but I'll definitely be re-watching it in the future.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:31

Yeah, I feel like I didn't get to see it in theaters twice, but I do feel like it is something where when it does become available to stream, which I think is gonna be I think it'll when it is available to stream, I feel like it is gonna be something that I wanna watch again because I feel like there are so many things that maybe even you Binks got out of the film watching it a second time in theaters. And I think there's just a lot of little details, a lot of nods and Easter eggs that I think are really fun. And when you have that kind of stuff in a film, it makes it for a good rewatch.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:08

Yeah, this is one of those where I imagine our listeners are gonna start sharing some details and we're gonna go Easter egg hunting. And so that's how I can imagine myself re-watching this is by scrabbling through and and looking in specific scenes and fast-forwarding through other scenes until I can see the detail that they all point out to us.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:28

Well, I can't wait to see if that amount of detail actually improves the film for you overall, Mac. But for now, there you have it, folks. Late night with the devil has earned one hack and three slashes. Now we certainly had a robust discussion here, but it doesn't end here by any means.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:43

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SPEAKER_00 1:19:53

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SPEAKER_03 1:20:04

We'll see you next time, folks, and remember, history remembers only kings.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:08

Thank you for allowing me into your living rooms.