332: Summer of 84 (2018)

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Spank it and spank it, boys.

SPEAKER_02 0:10

Greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hack or Slash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. Vaginas are magical. If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack, a total joke, a waste of time, or a splash.

SPEAKER_00 0:27

Totally killer, pun intended.

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We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, we're writing these movies with the perspective we gain from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast, and this week I'm joined by the Super Fly Space Guy Mac.

SPEAKER_00 0:43

Operation MAC Attack starts now.

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And the paranormal paramour Binks. Christ, I'm freaking out, okay? This week we're diving into a film where the lazy days of summer meet a sinister suburban mystery. The film drops us in a quaint American suburb where the most exciting summer activity is usually a game of manhunt between children, but for a group of teenage friends, the highlight of their vacation turns into an unsettling surveillance mission. The friends suspect there's something sinister afoot in their neighborhood and, while determined to uncover the truth, they begin a dangerous game of espionage. What they fail to realize, however, are the potential consequences of their curiosity. As they gather evidence, the line between innocent investigation and imminent threat becomes increasingly blurred. The film is a careful concoction of suspense crafted against a backdrop reminiscent of 1980 suburbia. It not only draws on fictional tales of terror, but it also weaves in disturbing inspirations from real-life serial killers, adding a layer of authenticity to the dread it portrays. So sharpen your instincts and grab your flashlights, folks. Prepare for a journey back in time that might just make you question how well you really know your neighbors. This week we're talking about Summer of 84. I personally have not seen this one, but have either of you?

SPEAKER_00 1:56

I have not either. Which is sad because the script I think it was like already a thing in 2015, you know. So it's not like they straight up copied them. Kind of a bummer. But I remember seeing the trailer, just thinking to myself, this kind of looks like a Stranger Things set Disturbia slash Freaky Friday. And I'm here for that. I'm not exactly sure what the vibe is, but it's giving kind of the feeling we get in Stranger Things. But the content of the movie reminds me of Disturbia, reminds me of Freaky Friday, both of which I enjoyed. So my hopes were unfortunately high, I guess. I don't like going to a movie with high hopes. I like realistic hopes, or I guess realistic is just mid. But I don't know. I think I went in with it thinking like this, oh, this has got to be like really, really good and right up my alley.

SPEAKER_02 3:45

Yeah, I'm so glad I didn't put that high of an expectation on it. Because when going into it, sure, I thought it'd have to be really good to stand itself up or to be able to stand apart from everything else. But actually turning this on, actually checking out the performances that we get, looking at the polish that it has, Mac honestly, I expected you to be really into it, just given how tightly produced it is. I was honestly struck with a feeling of nostalgia. There are a few things in here like Manhunt, they call it Noxema as a product. I'm like, wow, I haven't heard about that since the late 90s, early 2000s. But even beyond that, I was actually really caught up in the excitement of it. And I found that it really tapped into this really difficult feeling that I think a lot of people have when it comes to a fascination with the macabre or with serial killers in general. It's like the why do you find it exciting when this is actually a horrific thing that is happening that another human is experiencing? So I found myself this entire time widing this, riding this wave with the characters in the movie, going on that emotional journey.

SPEAKER_00 4:53

Yeah, I mean it it's the journey you go on, is the type of thing, I don't know, you get it in a lot of 80s movies, right? And so when you're watching this, it feels like you're watching an 80s movie. It's this teen adventure, it's like watching Stand By Me in a way. And so there's something that just sucks you into it, you know? So I think it's a really compelling watch, but it does have that familiar feeling to it. It's almost cozy, but at the same time, you know there's something bad going on. And so, like you're comfortable while watching it, but at the same time, you're waiting for the thrills.

SPEAKER_01 5:26

And that's the unfortunate part for me, where I felt like I was waiting for the thrills for a majority of the film, and it never really paid off in that way. And so, what I meant by expecting gore, I guess I just figured that this was gonna be more campy and funny and those kinds of tropes and horror. Then it turned out to really be something more serious, and then it I don't know necessarily if I felt like I could take it seriously with its attempts. So we talked about how it relates to Stranger Things. I am Stranger Things number one, as we know very well. I am in a serious chokehold for sure. So I thought, okay, I'm gonna love this. On top of the fact that I love true crime, that kind of stuff. I love a good mystery, I love thrillers, all that. So I figured, okay, as the movie is progressing, this can be something that I can get into. But something about these boys, I think this friend group and their personalities and stuff, the humor with their dialogue didn't really sit well for me. It was giving a little too like hornball teenage boy vibes that I just, I don't know, maybe I'm it's not my kind of humor. And then as it goes along, I'm like, all right, but there's gonna be some thrills, there's gonna be some big mystery. And I never really got that. I I actually felt like a lot of it was just predictable. It was dragging on a bit. So I love hearing that you guys felt like you were going on an adventure, but for me it felt like an adventure cut extremely short. Like one of those like fair rides where you're supposed to be going through like a haunted house type thing, and you're like, any moment now, something's gonna poke out and scare me. And it's like, no, nothing actually. Everything's quite predictable of a ride. That's fair.

SPEAKER_02 7:06

The reality is that this movie does not scream horror movie in even the same way that the it reboots do. We have kids in the 80s in that movie. We get it. Even that though, I think with this age group and with that time period in general, I think it has done this thing in my mind or immediately signals, yeah, this isn't gonna actually be that bad. We have the Lost Boys, where we have younger kids fighting against vampires in the 80s. But at no point does this age group in an 80s movie make me think there's any real present danger. So I think in my mind, I didn't have the same level of expectation for violence or gore. I was perfectly entertained by it being more of a thriller than anything. But I tell you what I was surprised by. We just did an episode on the babysitter with Samara Weaving. We have our boy, main star of that movie. In this movie, puberty's a motherfucker because one year later and this kid looks like a whole different person. Uh no. No, he looks like him. He looks like him, and he still looks like Haley Steinfeld, but he looks much older.

SPEAKER_00 8:12

Oh yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_01 8:14

Here's what's happened is basically Judah Lewis hit puberty just like Haley Steinfeld hit puberty. And so now they're both the hotter versions of each other. You know what I'm saying? Once I saw him on screen, I was like, are you kidding me? Now I'm watching Haley Steinfeld older all over again. And now I can't not think of Haley Steinfeld the whole time. Well, here we are. I'm just saying, still looks identical.

SPEAKER_02 8:36

I tell you what though, that was just one of many surprises in this movie. I think I was also surprised by how different this movie hits. You'll hear this, folks, if you're a patron and you listen to our B sides. I got to go to an event where we they were talking about the psychology of serial killers. Getting a refresher and a crash course on serial killers again before watching this movie gave me so much more to appreciate about the finer nuances of character work in this movie. I was also surprised how layered it is, despite being really simple and just a copy-paste formula of young teens, see something spooky, they gotta check it out, shit goes down.

SPEAKER_00 9:14

There's nothing wrong with the formula that works. I see Binks' face, but I I think the thing that surprised me is a small one, but it's the casting here for two of the characters. It is Rich Summer, who plays in Mad Men. So that was interesting to see such a goof in a serious film like this, and a Jason Gray Stanford, who is in Monk and plays an absolute buffoon, a lovable buffoon in that show. And so it was like really weird to see two actors who've been in such like different properties just get in here and nail it, along with a lot of other actors, the kid, the child actors, the teen actors, whatever they're considered here. The acting was a really pleasant surprise because I think it can be really hit or miss. And we've talked about good old Judah, and we know that he can deliver, but the other the other actors here I think also do really well. And I know I had my expectations fairly high for the movie as a whole, but I wasn't really focused in on like the actual acting in the cast when I was imagining what this could be. And so it's really nice to see the work that they put on screen.

SPEAKER_01 10:14

I will agree. Although I may not love the character arcs in general or just certain traits and the dialogue, regardless, the actors did an incredible job performing with what they had. And sometimes I feel like we've got great actors cast in some of these roles, and then the acting is just trash and doesn't help the case. Here I bought in I some of the boys were definitely fun to watch. Woody in particular, he's a fun one. But for me, I think the disappointing aspect to this is it's the potential a little bit of it having met my expectation of grossness. Like I think we could have with a serial killer plot, we could have hit that mark, right? We could have had stronger plot twists, we could have had a little bit more shock factor if this was supposed to be a serious film. Now, if this was supposed to be more campy on the comedic side, then I think you can sacrifice the plot twists some more, right? Or or maybe change up the way that it's gross. I think it's gross in some of the dialogue, but not in the practical effects, like in the actual kills and things. So I don't know. I feel like it was um not much of a balance there. And I would have loved to have seen what this film could have been if it did meet those marks.

SPEAKER_02 11:28

Oh, I tell you what, I think it could have been scary.

SPEAKER_01 11:31

And it just wasn't.

SPEAKER_02 11:33

Yeah, it's not scary. I do think there's suspense though, and I do appreciate that. Not suspense in the way that I think anyone's gonna be surprised by the direction it goes, but there is a moment in the third act where even though you can see it coming, it still manages to be like, Whoa, holy shit. Alright. This seems like a real bad situation. It's not the kind of thing that gives me the same level of chills as I get watching true crime specials, but there is something about this movie that I think confronts you with the emotion of a lot of this without really letting you fall prey to how fucking scary this scenario would be.

SPEAKER_00 12:13

Yeah, I think they they do a good job. And I know Banks, you mentioned earlier that you thought there was gonna be probably a lot more camp than we got, and that this kind of took things a little seriously here, and so I think that's where they head towards horror there, is when they take things more seriously than a lot of the jokes. And I think the rest of the time it is a thriller, and you could it's still a horror thriller or a thriller horror or however you want to mix it up, but I think it leans heavily towards the thriller segment just for most of the time. But I think also if you were a teen, this might hit a bit differently. Although we're used to teen favoring movies having a lot of jump scares. This one has a couple, and so it really seems like if you target it for teens, they're gonna find it more of a horror movie. And if you target it for anybody over 18, most likely, it's gonna seem just just like a standard thriller.

SPEAKER_01 12:59

And that's where I would say the tactics were effective here to build suspense and thrills, but it's not necessarily what you would expect for a horror film. That's the difference here. So I think we can definitely agree on that part.

SPEAKER_00 13:13

That's true. It does a lot of things that a lot of other movies do. We mentioned earlier there seems to be a recipe that it's following. And I think while watching this, you could easily point at several other movies along the way and things from real life as well. When it comes to originality here, you really have to consider it as a complete package, but as a concept, I don't think it's necessarily completely original. You know, it's a differently set, differently shot, differently kind of worked version of Dysterbia, of Freaky Friday, uh, of not freaky. Freaky Friday, is that the movie I'm thinking of? It's Fright Night.

SPEAKER_01 13:48

Oh, Fright Night.

SPEAKER_00 13:50

It's Fright Night, I'm thinking of, yeah, so Friday and Freaky. No, not exactly freaky, but definitely Fright Night. There's a lot of stuff going on here that you could that you could point to. I still think it feels somewhat original in in perhaps tone. And so when we're watching this, we've seen so much other content stylized like this, and so it's kind of hard to distinguish it from everything else.

SPEAKER_02 14:11

I don't disagree with you, but I do want to zero in here on what you said about tone. Because the tone is exactly where I think this movie shines. Listen, originality, you talked about it, disturb you. We have the fright night of it all, we have even a little bit of lost boys energy, we have even rear window. There's so much that gets baked into the DNA of this movie that when you add all these ingredients together, you get this. And while it's not original, I do think it tackles this topic at a meta level in a way that's refreshing for the material. And again, it's because of how dark it goes at a certain point. And listen, this movie is bleak in some moments. We'll talk about it here in the end in a moment when we talk about the ending, but I think if even for just its tone, it gets some originality points for me.

SPEAKER_01 15:04

Alright, that's fair. I was trying to think of the ending, if that's where you're like shifting, right? Okay. I guess I can see that. It's hard though, because when you think the it's almost like the sum of its parts, though, right? The ending alone is where that tone fits for me. And the overall film, I don't feel that. I do feel like this is a very much, it's funny, as we were talking, one of our patrons mentioned it in the chat. Like it's kids on bikes, you know? It's the generic mystery, Hardy Boys type vibe. There's even an Easter egg of it, which I think is cool, but Dysturbia, Friday night, all these things that I just can't let go of. And this is coming from me who, again, loves stranger things more than anything on this planet. And that is prime, unoriginal, and to some extent. That's like a massive love letter of all of these things, of kids on bikes type stuff. Especially, of course, set in the 80s too. Like all of those things are, I guess, carbon copies to some extent. But if we're gonna talk tone, I'll give it to you. I hadn't considered that part, especially towards the end. I you uh especially with my expectations of it being funnier and the dialogue for these kids, right? They're they lean into this horny teen boy vibe that I it's hard to walk away from. But when you think of the overarching problem and what they face towards the end, especially with our main character, it's very starkly different.

SPEAKER_02 16:25

100%. And maybe that's what it is for me that I don't find horny teen boys funny. So I think even going into this, I just didn't expect to really laugh at it. But holy shit, the journey we go on with the tone of this movie finding excitement or awe and fascination of a separated perspective on serial killers, to then the level of devastation that we see. Man, this ending might be one of my favorite endings to this era of Netflix style movies. You know what I mean? With what Mac describes as the Netflix effect, which is really tightly written and polished imagery. I love, love, love the emotional impact of this, especially after digging back into the psychology of everything.

SPEAKER_00 17:12

It is tough for me though, because you think you're gonna get one ending, and right at the very end, we got to turn it around. And that was tough because I knew something had to happen, right? And it was like, well, this can't be it. And then something shakes it up and makes the end. It's not exactly like a twist. It's not that you don't expect something like this to happen, but it is surprising. It kind of catches you off guard a little bit. And I think you're right about the emotional roller coaster because this film has its back and forth, its ups and downs, got some slower points, got some faster points, and it's got some moments that make you think, am I crazy? Are they crazy? Is any of this real? I'm not exactly sure. Not in a metaphysical kind of sense or anything, but and then you get to the end and it is like pure reality hitting you in the face. And that's what I like about the tone of this movie because it does seem, even though there's lots of teenage boy humor in it, which is a bit over the top, it does seem to try to show you what reality could have looked like back in 1984. And that I think is what it really delivers on.

SPEAKER_01 18:10

I I don't know, maybe there's something wrong with me. The ending for me felt like potentially 10 minutes worth of great film. Like it was so fast-paced. It was definitely a shock moment. But generally, though, because to me the film felt so predictable, those 10 minutes were all that I really had to hold on to in terms of a payoff and like feeling like, wow, this is that mystery solved, or this is that moment. To me, it almost felt like it was cliche because there was no plot twist to some extent, at least not for me. Again, maybe because I just found certain aspects predictable or or whatnot. But cliche at best, a little bit of a waste of time at worst, because again, I was hoping for something a bit more, and it just never ended up happening. So those 10 minutes of, oh shit, what's gonna happen here? Oh my god, they did this or XYZ, you know, like that was a fun ride. But again, I go back to the analogy of it being a fair ride where that that tension, that buildup of when you're going through the little track, and you know this is a kitty ride, so how scary could it possibly be? But somehow, some way along the the rain or the ride, you're thinking, okay, maybe something is gonna pop out, maybe something is gonna scare me. That's the 10 minutes of the ending for me. And then you realize nothing's gonna happen, and then you just keep going, and then the ride's over.

SPEAKER_02 19:34

All right, well, clearly we have some mixed feelings on this movie between the three of us, but let's go ahead and start working our way towards rating it. But before we do, Mac, how would you describe the gore score?

SPEAKER_00 19:44

I'd say the gore score here for most of the movie is gonna ring in at a low, but there we definitely have some good stuff packed in there that's at a medium. And so altogether, I think we're looking at a medium low.

SPEAKER_02 19:58

And what about the animal report? No animals were harmed in the summer of 84. Well, let's go ahead and get into our ratings. Summer of 84 from 2018, now available streaming online. Was it a hack or a slash?

SPEAKER_01 20:10

Look, give me a group of kids solving a mystery set in the 80s, and I'm all in. We know this. This entire room that I'm currently recording in is full of stranger things and the like. Okay, but unfortunately, this film missed the horror mark for me and was really a thriller that to me was more of a chill than a thrill. There was a lot of potential with these characters, again, solving that mystery, but I really struggled to like the young boys as a whole. There were particular ones that I did feel invested in, but as a whole, as a unit, I didn't really care. And a lot of it does have to do with that, you know, that teen boy humor that was really just a lot. But here's the ironic part. It's crazy to say, but I almost feel like this film would have fared better with me if it were funnier all around, not just leaning heavily into that one characteristic of teen boys. There has to be more to them. And with some of those characters, you do see that. For the rest, it's just filler. And with a little bit more comedy, with a little bit more of a plot twist, again, I that balance, I feel like I would have felt more invested. But this just lands itself in the thriller pool that's not even that much of a thriller. So it's just not a film that I would then go out of my way to watch. For that, I'll just watch Disturbia, to be honest. So yeah, I I am giving this one a hack.

SPEAKER_02 21:35

I'm gonna jump in here real quick because you talked about Disturbia. Listen, Disturbia was a great movie, and yes, this movie isn't as thrilling as that was, but also fuck Shia LaBeouf. I'll watch this over Dysturbia any day because of Shia LaBeouf. This movie is polished, this movie is simple, and yet even within its simplicity, there are some kinds of Complexities there because of the characters, because of the way that it wants to pause and show you what's happening in this world and paint the picture of what life in the 80s is like in terms of dynamics between families, in terms of the sense of peace being ruptured for so many of these kids, but then also the subtle new the subtle hints at what else is happening in society around this time. There's a reason why we don't have as many serial killers today as we did back then. And for this movie to be able to paint this picture so effectively, but also to give such great commentary on the modern take, the modern perspective of serial killers, I think it has to be pretty adept in a lot of ways to be able to pull that off. And so for me, it's a slash.

SPEAKER_00 22:47

I think this was just a fun watch. It's got that whole classic teenage adventure thing going on, but it's also mixed with serial killer horror. It feels overall very familiar. You know, like I mentioned, you can point to a dozen other movies while you're watching it, but I think that just lends this nice feeling of familiarity that works well with that vintage 80s ambiance. It just like combines into this experience that makes you feel not quite at home, but like what's going on. Now I think the acting is solid. The story, like Chris mentioned, is simple, but it's a good thing because if you could deliver it well, which I think they do, then it works. And I think for the most part, it's executed well. I think visually looks great. Love the polish. The experience in total just feels like a safe yet suspenseful thriller. Overall, I think it's a slash.

SPEAKER_02 23:38

Well, it looks like we're starting to balance out here, but just for good measure, let me read you a page from the book of Sean. And by the book of Sean, I mean his rating of this film. Overall, I think this movie is just a fun movie to watch. It has Scoonies vibe to it. Yes, you can say stranger things, and that's accurate, but you gotta pay respects to the one that influenced it all, the Goonies. Sure, it's not really horror through and through. It's more thriller than anything, but it was fun to watch. It's in the same vein as classics like Monster Squad with a little hint of Dysturbia in there. I love the Easter eggs, especially the nod to the poultry guys with a whole commentary of their neighborhood being built on ancient being built on ancient burial grounds and whatnot. It's a coming-of-age story of innocence and delivers this 80s nostalgia that we all know and love and meets it with just a little taste of brutal horror. And I think if you're looking to fill the void between Stranger Things seasons, this is what you're giving. This is what you're looking for. So I give it a slash.

SPEAKER_01 24:37

I have to interject. I don't know about that last part. But I do want to commentate and say that how interesting that my fellow Virgo, who famously started this whole bit of it's not actually a horror, so you should hack it, all of a sudden has had a change of heart.

SPEAKER_02 24:54

That's called character development, Binks.

SPEAKER_01 24:57

I don't know, I guess I've just gotten harsher.

SPEAKER_00 24:59

Yeah, we all reserve the right to change our minds.

SPEAKER_02 25:01

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 25:01

That's allowed.

SPEAKER_02 25:02

But before we change our minds for now, do we have it, folks? Summer 84 in 2018 under one hack, two slashes, and a temporary slash for the future for Sean, who's not officially on this episode. Yeah, you can't find this movie treatment online, so check out the link in our channel to see where you can find it right now. So we can spoil this shit together. See you in the video.

SPEAKER_01 25:32

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SPEAKER_00 26:53

Let's go through those kills. So in this movie, we have two on-screen kills and various kills that happened beforehand, up to 13. We're also privy to the results of one of those kills that happened off-screen. But yeah, there's not a lot of kills that we get to watch occur. Literally one.

SPEAKER_02 27:11

Which I do think is one of the major problems with this movie. I think we could have absolutely stood to see a lot more death. A little fucked up because they're all kids, right? But last year, fuck them kids. Why not get a little bit more this year?

SPEAKER_01 27:25

And that's what basically separates this film from a thriller to a horror in some capacity, right? What would have really made this film solidified in the horror genre is all those kills. But I don't know. I I feel like it would have been interesting. I would have taken this film way more seriously if I had seen some of those kills. Not that I'm excited for it per se, but I definitely would have taken it more seriously.

SPEAKER_02 27:51

Yeah, I'm not excited for either of them. And I actually just want to take a moment to talk about how devastated I am about Woody dying. Yeah, it oh Woody, such a great kid, such a good friend, such a wholesome heart. And I do think the very specific choice of making him the one to go is exactly what that tonal shift I was talking about is. Right. He says, I don't want to die tonight, my mom needs me. His mom relies on him. He is there to support her. You think about how much responsibility he has, he is a child who is not a child, he's a child who deserves to be a child. But even without his mom having an opportunity to be more of a mom and less of just a roommate in this sense, because he's really stepping up, his childhood is over long before his life is over. But even his life is extinguished too soon, and that is just fucking depressing.

SPEAKER_01 28:44

He's without a doubt the best character, and that's what I would have really loved out of all of these characters, to to be honest. That arc, that development, he's uh the absolute best because it's extremely tragic. And I'll give the film its flowers for being so savage to have taken him out. But that was the 10 minutes that I'm talking about. When he dies and is brutally murdered, I was stunned, but it's almost like too late. You know what I mean? That kind of decision is almost too late in the film. So yeah, I was pretty heartbroken about that one.

SPEAKER_02 29:19

Honestly, though, we've seen other characters in movies come back from so much worse that I thought surely he's gonna be still around and just has a sick neck scar. But no, our boy was gone.

SPEAKER_00 29:31

I was hoping they were gonna give us that happy ending. That's such a bummer because yeah, I think there's some differentiators here between this and of course Stranger Things. Now they have similar settings. We've mentioned maybe even sometimes while you're watching it kind of reminds you of it, but they tried to push things here for realism. They give two characters really tough, like family situations and very different family situations. And his, they let you in on such an emotional moment and show that he's a good kid and he deserves to have a happy ending. And for him to be the kill of the movie was crazy. It like it really, I think, catches you off guard to for those two to be set up in that position because in that moment, it's probably not gonna be the main kid here. So they're gonna take Woody out, really? It has that moment where you're like, maybe they're both gonna make it out and they'll trip him or and steal the car or stab him with his own whatever. But when it hits you that like someone's not making it out here, or when the I think when the slash to the leg hits, you're just like, okay, is he actually gonna kill them both? And that's they went for uber realism. Is he and yeah, I think it was such a bummer because it's the only kill and it's not one you want to root for at all.

SPEAKER_02 30:39

Absolutely. But let's also take a moment to examine how grotesque the body in the bathtub was.

SPEAKER_00 30:45

Oh my.

SPEAKER_02 30:46

And also how completely fucked up it is that we get all those pictures as well.

SPEAKER_00 30:51

It's crazy that like the pictures of the victims were sitting on the wall the entire time, like from the start of the movie, right? And of course he didn't know.

SPEAKER_02 30:59

Hidden in plain sight.

SPEAKER_00 31:00

Hidden in plain sight, never put two and two together because he didn't know you know all the faces at that point. And what an absolute bummer for them to be just a little bit too late. Had somebody caught him at the beginning of the movie, maybe something different would have happened here. But it wasn't just like they found a body wrapped in a bag, they found a mutilated corpse that this dude is trying to disintegrate.

SPEAKER_02 31:22

And then another kid right there, right next to it, exasperated, beaten down.

SPEAKER_01 31:27

Imagine being stuck there next to that for days, who knows? Ugh.

SPEAKER_02 31:33

I think that's one of the most terrifying possibilities in this movie. And I say possibility, it has the potential to be scary because you think about these actual serial killers that have existed in our times, and we have victims who are trapped in their homes for days at a time. You have people who are being dismembered, disfigured, buried under floorboards. It is absolutely horrific. So I think it was bold to show as much as they did. And I know that you know we talked earlier, we would have loved to have seen or even just gotten the opportunity to have some of those deaths occur in the events of the film versus off-screen all at once before the movie even starts. But for them to show that to the degree that they did, I think that is where it adds in that touch of seriousness.

SPEAKER_00 32:23

Had they showed the other kills along the way, we would have been closer to a movie like Seven, and we would have had to like completely abandon a lot of the comedy. And there's nothing wrong with that. I just don't think that was this movie. And it because it wouldn't have matched to have those kids with their teenage humor and then to have gruesome kills happening along the way like that, without it either going completely campy or just completely like off the rails and not matching up whatsoever. It was almost strange to me that they chose to have the one kill of this movie on screen at the very end of it and for it to be a main character. I almost felt bad that they chose to even have a single kill on screen. And then I was like, okay, but I see where they went with this and why.

SPEAKER_01 33:05

Look, I love Fincher like a stupid amount. I love Fincher a stupid amount. And we're talking about serial killers, right? We were talking we talked about Mindhunter earlier in the B-sides. We talked about, I'm thinking of Zodiac, all these things. Fincher loves this kind of stuff. And to me, I'm like, yeah, I I do too. And that's why I maybe have such high expectations of these kinds of especially like a serial killer, like mystery type thing. And I love the all kids cast. But that's what would have made this original is could they actually do it? Could they do it with an all kids cast with their stupid little horny kid humor, I suppose, and then these brutal kills. Talk about jarring, talk about scarring and and traumatic. That's nuts and super gnarly. And I think it would have been cool to see. Uh because we don't typically see it. And I think for me, it would have made what wasn't so much of a shock in terms of who the killer was, like it would have made up for it. I think I would have been like, damn, yeah, maybe the killer was predictable because there was not necessarily that much of a red herring for me. The red herring was actually him. But at the same time, it would have been like, yeah, well, look at how sinister this guy was. And we know that because of the pictures on the wall, but maybe I would have liked to have seen it take get taken a step further.

SPEAKER_02 34:28

Yeah, I never was under any illusion that they weren't trying to be up front of exactly who he was. Maybe it's because of everything else that we see. Obviously, Golden State Killer, he's a cop. He's sitting in the front yard handing things out to kids. There is a serial killer called the candy man who would give candy to kids, but also just a community figure, John Wayne Gacy. There's so many elements of his personality that it just felt super obvious. Okay, we know that this kid suspects he's a serial killer, we're not gonna try to lean away from that at all. We're playing into it, and that's what makes the lack of belief in Davey so much more frustrating because we all see it like, oh my gosh, this guy is a monster, he's a maniac, and no one is really listening. And that's where I think that tension really comes in. I actually want to go back to his house, Mackie's house, and the design of it. Mackie's house is so fucking creepy, and it actually I think is one of my favorite pieces of set work in this movie. We have some really stunning visuals all around, but his house in particular, from the framed photos of all of his victims to the dark room downstairs, it is a moment that on the outside, even though it looks quaint, it looks peaceful, it gives me the same eerie feeling as a nightmare on Elm Street, where you know that just behind that door is some fucked up shit.

SPEAKER_00 36:00

I loved as well that they started the movie off with that. Because like the rest of the movie, they're really making you guess, and you start tricking yourself into thinking, oh, there are reasonable explanations for pretty much everything that this could all turn out to be this massive red herring, the tools that he's got for gardening. When we see like how manicured everything is in his yard, you're like, oh man, they're gonna look like idiots, and it's gonna be someone they know, it's gonna be one of their parents. That was the game I was playing in my mind of which way this could possibly go. But that basement sticks with you the whole time, and there's just no explanation for what's going on down there. The entire movie, they don't get close to a single reason why he could have that locked room looking the way that it does going on back there. But everything else, it's like, oh, well, the dark room that he's building, that's why his basement is so creepy and dark and the lights aren't on. The gardening, eventually, the project he was working on is a big explanation. There's like everything. You know, he's a cop and maybe he's going out for a jog. When we mentioned that he might have a big family, we don't focus on that too long. Where are they? Where is his family? Maybe he's alone, maybe he's lonely, maybe that's why he does all these strange obsessive things, but that basement there's no explanation for. And I think his house, the set dressing, all of that was so wonderful on screen. I don't know what it is with like 80s movies now, and you go back and watch them, they have this really lived-in kind of feel sometimes, unless they're going for a camp, in which case none of it matters. But when we're trying to make movies that are set in the 80s, that has to be something you pay attention to get the feel. Otherwise, it's just here's a date we picked and we wanted to go with it. If you don't nail the set and the set dressing, it's not gonna work. I'm gonna go with my favorite thing here, I think is has got to be just like the wardrobe and the props. And I and I think we see a lot of use with those props, especially the walkie-talkies. We saw the exact same thing in Stranger Things. And so it's like, I never had these big walkie-talkies these kids have, like CB radios and stuff, when I was a kid. A decade later, we didn't have all that fun stuff, but we had walkie-talkies, you know, we had laser guns to play laser tag and all sorts of fun little things that kids have. And I don't know, there's just like something about the way that they they dress everybody up, the way that Mackie even has like his wardrobe, I think works really well with trying to make him seem like the good guy next door, which we all know to suspect now in 2024. And I think that's why it works so well here is they paid attention to a lot of little details.

SPEAKER_01 38:25

And I think the cherry on top to that, both the set, the wardrobe, all that, is the score. At the end of the day, to me, a score has to tie all of these production elements together and put a bow on it to build that suspense that maybe's lacking in the dialogue or in the script, to really make sure that you are fully in the setting in the era of the 80s, and that's synth, and I'm a sucker for synth. I think the score is so freaking good. And the irony to all of this is that although I hacked this film, and maybe it wasn't necessarily my biggest cup of tea, this score was a one. Like I'm talking, I would for sure buy it on vinyl tomorrow. It's so so good. So when I'm thinking of the basement, when I'm thinking of even just them hanging out, the fun moments, the more suspenseful ones, all using like those synthetic vibes and those 80s tones, it's so so good.

SPEAKER_02 39:25

Yeah, I actually think of the way even that music hits in the third act of the film, starting with what I found to be my absolute favorite scene. Holy shit. We have this feeling of triumph. They're in their house looking across the street at Mackie's house, the police are everywhere, everybody's looking for him, everybody feels really confident. And you know, because there's still runtime left in the movie, that it doesn't end that cleanly. However, Davy's in bed in the middle of the night, and we see the ladder coming down from the attic, and then in our minds we remember Mackie saying he hasn't been in that house since Davy was a toddler, and he had to help his dad get some things into the attic. So this is a house that he's familiar with. He knows how to get up there quickly, and he knows how to hide up there. And that was the shit. Nothing good happens in basements, nothing good happens in attics. That shit reminded me of two things when a stranger calls and black Christmas. Fucking loved it. It was the boogeyman coming from across the street and into your house.

SPEAKER_01 40:34

And to me, I don't know why I thought of malignant.

SPEAKER_02 40:37

Oh yeah, actually that's really great.

SPEAKER_01 40:39

Nowhere near at the caliber of the movies that you just referenced, though. I do recognize that. Still great.

SPEAKER_02 40:45

Still great.

SPEAKER_00 40:46

That that scene right there is so good because it shows us the type of experience that the the other victims probably went through with this guy who's not being the nice howdy dootie neighbor with somebody who's like on the prowl, who's on the hunt, who's there to cause damage. And it really finally shows us him in his true form in the dead of night. It was fantastic. I actually liked talking about the score again and some of the other transition effects we used here. I actually like the moments when we got to see the relationship build with Nikki because it like takes you out and it also helps to make you question whether or not the kids are onto nothing, right? It's like maybe this isn't real. Maybe like Nikki's real and what she's going through with her family and their relationship they're building. This is like the lighter side of it, though, that makes you feel like I'm watching an episode of Stranger Things is like, oh, they have a little romance here, a little back and forth. I'm I'm here for it. But it also, I think, gives us just like more reasons to care about our main character. When he's actually with her, he's like trying to be decent. Of course, when they're all together, they're being horny little boys, even the way that he talks about her, like a score, which didn't appreciate that when then he turns around and tells them not to talk about her. Pick a side here, dude. But when they're together, the way that he interacts with her is real. And I like that. I liked when they had those real, kind of grounded moments, especially with the other two kids. We see the interaction with the mom. We hear the interaction between parents yelling as we're walking out of the house and can't stomach what's going on. And so all those moments that like grounded us in real life, I think are what make this movie very different from a lot of other movies. And to see him talk to her and deal with what she's going through and for her to have those emotional moments where she goes back to the past because those that was like a good time. Yeah, I'm I'm here for it.

SPEAKER_01 42:33

You talked about how he was very much real with her, and I did appreciate that at least I'm not getting too much of this cliche little boy vibe from our main character. And the second to that is our boy Woody. My favorite scene a thousand percent is when they're in the vehicle driving, he's driving to follow their good old Mackie, their neighbor. Oh my god, it's peak anxiety because that's really me. If I was in his situation, I would also be panicking, freaking out, especially that I didn't even learn how to drive until very recently. But when he says frick this, I was almost in tears laughing. Because the frick this I did not even anticipate the word freak or frick or whatever. I just man, talk about a kid. Because when you're freaking out like that, you can't even verbalize a full-on curse word because he's so humble and he's so cute. So he just says frick this and he's all panicked. Oh, I get it. I'd be under pressure, I'd be sweating like crazy, I'd be losing it. I thought it was so endearing to him for sure, especially early on in the film.

SPEAKER_02 43:39

And that's why I think he's just such a damn great character. Honestly, truly, this kid has these moments of embodying pure, wholesome kid, even though the fact that this kid is like 25 years old when he's playing this role. He has wholesome kid energy, but then also obviously seeking to shed the Burdens of that. There's a moment where he asked Davy if he could spend the night because he doesn't want to be at home. Let this kid escape the burdens of responsibility for one night, folks. And I think a lot of the kids in this movie actually have really great intentions behind them. Faraway is one that I honestly could do without. Eats is another one where you see the torment there in that family, what that dynamic is like, and you feel for these kids. You feel for these kids and you see the way that they're leaning on each other for support and they're trying to be honest and open about what they're experiencing, but they can't be too honest or too open because it's also one of those things where it's like an unspoken understanding between them.

SPEAKER_00 44:41

It it makes me think, though, if this were a TV show instead of a movie, how they would have been able to dive into the relationships between these characters so much. Like every episode would have been so much more personal, so much more emotional, and then punctuated with a kill. You could see it. There's like a 13-episode arc that they could easily do and knock this out. But we have only this movie to get through it. But even in this short amount of time, I think they were really able to give us some characters who had like just enough background to make them feel real. And they show off just enough of the interactions between the kids and their parents to make them feel real and to feel bad for some of them. At the beginning, you don't really know them yet. And you're like, okay, they're kids, whatever. They're gonna ride their bikes, they're gonna steal a car, who cares? But as the movie progresses and you get into each character's situation just a little bit, it like makes you root for them enough. And I think that was really effective. I don't think there's one of them that I like disliked. Maybe at the beginning I was really unsure who I was really gonna actually enjoy. There's maybe one. There's maybe one that I was like, whatever we could do without him. But I think the more prominent characters, I actually did like their company.

SPEAKER_01 45:49

Oh, I'll say it for me, it was definitely Eats, which is ironic because I I did feel bad in terms of his upbringing for sure as the film progressed, but it is one of those moments where I'm like, man, despite that though, I just it he's a hard one to stomach. Which is a testament again to Judah's ability, Judah Lewis's ability in acting. I think he does a great job at that. Very starkly different than the babysitter, right? And a little bit in the ending, too, when I I think I would have liked a bit more of a beat when Davy is looking at them and they're like taking down that treehouse, and obviously, I would imagine traumatized by Woody's death, like a little bit longer of a moment to really marinate in the fact that they used to be friends, that this was something that they all went through. But we don't get that. It's just again him just driving through the bike. I love how you brought up that this would have been great as a show because I agree. And I think if there were longer moments to marinate in their friendship, longer moments to sit in the circumstances that each of these kids are in, especially with their parents, maybe I would have felt more invested for some. Like you guys, I guess, you know, it was enough for you, but for me, it just it just wasn't for a majority of them. For Woody, for sure. I but I also think that's because there's more time with Woody, technically, right? And obviously Davy, maybe less with the other two, and that's why. But as a whole, it just wasn't enough. And I yeah, maybe it's a hot take that I didn't really eat so much despite what happened to him, sure. But I also feel like that's okay though. I I don't necessarily think that he was meant to be fully loved right off the bat.

SPEAKER_02 47:26

It's like that one person in the group that you just tolerate because you like the other people that are around them. It's understandable. But I actually want to unpack a couple more things here, starting with Davey. We look at the third act, and I just really want to circle back to how changed and scarred he is. This is a kid who found out that there was a serial killer and was fucking excited about it. Because serial killers to him, although a very real thing during this time, were really along the lines of let's say we think about Cryptids. He had all these articles, they're all they're all these like mythical creatures, and it's almost as if in his mind serial killers were just as fictional. Or because it's such an abstract thing that he's intrigued by but hasn't encountered firsthand, it's something that he's putting on a pedestal. So you have this, he thinks this is the coolest thing that's ever happened to this town, and then the closer he gets to it, the more terrifying it is, and then it costs his friend his life, and he is traumatized and carrying this pain forever from this point forward. And I think Davy's performance in the end there, so fucking great.

SPEAKER_01 48:43

Which makes me think of that Fright Night analogy to an extent too, because even in that film, right, when you're watching that show and it can trans in that, and so the seeds planted, so you're just gonna see from that perspective and that view. In Davy's case, yeah, when you're immersing yourself in this true crime and you're so fascinated by it, there is that level of separation where you kind of get think that you're immune to this, right? You're immune to this actually being real. It's just something that happens to other people, or that perhaps happens in far away places and never right outside your door, right? Across the street and whatnot. So it is pretty unfortunate, and if anything, very jarring in a perspective of just like the true crime world in and of itself. Maybe something to reflect on our perspectives of liking that kind of stuff, right? Because you're like, well, I'm so fascinated by it, but would you really fuck around and find out in those circumstances? I'd hope not.

SPEAKER_00 49:40

I would also hope not. And I love that explanation, Chris. I didn't even real put one and one together here to realize that like he was into all those things. Yeah, they were plastered on his wall, and it just made him seem okay, he's an inquisitive kid. He's really curious. He wants to find out the truth behind things, but I never it never hit me that he's into it because it is this mythological creature almost. It's tough because when all the kids are talking about how cool it is and how nifty it is, you're just like, ah, honestly, though, that's like a lot of real humans who are just into the novelty of something. And so every time you bring up something about the characters in the film, it's like it does reflect on the reality of what goes on. The fact that he's not believed by his own friends, even though stuff is right there, that was reality back then when weird stuff was going on. Nobody around them could even imagine that this was a possibility, that they were a serial killer. They were the guy next door, they knew him forever. And so it's such a good job, like how they were able to take these characters and make them show entire aspects of 80s society before all this stuff really blew up. It is unfortunate that we do have, of course, this like love interest of the older babysitter kind of thing going on here. I feel like that's played out in a lot of other movies and TV shows as well, especially ones that are set in the 80s. I like that it for them it didn't end with all they cared about was hooking up, right? And so that's, I think, where they save themselves a little bit. Yeah, he's a gross teenage boy. He's gonna talk about one of his friends at the beginning, but that character arc we get for him by the end, he's just there to support her and be there for her because he cares about her and she cares about him, apparently. And I think that really kind of saved them throwing that dynamic into the mix at all.

SPEAKER_02 51:20

Yeah, which makes me wonder what would happen. Not that there's a direct sequel from this, but almost like an epilogue to the story. Whatever came of these kids.

SPEAKER_01 51:30

Well, I hope that it wouldn't be something between the two of them because I think that they stopped it right where it needed to be. Any more of that typical slobbering over your babysitter, infatuated with her type deal, roll my eyes. Also, how realistic is that truly? Again, call back to the babysitter that we just reviewed. Like that is another example to some extent of maybe perhaps a realistic dynamic between a babysitter and their teenage boy that they watch over. But it's nice to see that the female in this film isn't just completely whittled down to a sex object, essentially.

SPEAKER_02 52:11

Which I can definitely appreciate. Although I'm gonna be real, I know the 80s were a different time. This kid is 15, she's 18, she's going off to college. It's just a it's a funny thing, weird thing. Something else I want to unpack here is actually Mackie himself. It's specifically this thing from this talk I went to where Dr. Tolls was talking about paraphilia and thinking about what are the big life moments and what are the impressions that that like basically creates for these young boys or these young people who become serial killers the lasting impression in their mind. And there's a point where Mackie says, 15, the perfect age, I wish I could just freeze it for you. And then we see that there's a baseball that he keeps in his home. Is he obsessed with this moment in his life when he was 15 years old? And then so we have that one thought. We think about Jeffrey Dahmer. Jeffrey Dahmer, as we're going through this whole talk and learning more about him, uh, did not want to kill people to kill them for the violence of it, but wanted to preserve them and keep a part of them forever and keep them as long as possible. So is Mackie killing these kids to freeze them in time at the perfect age? And I think the more you can sit here and think in that and dwell in that, it just becomes really fucking interesting to try to unpack him as a serial killer.

SPEAKER_00 53:35

Yeah, and that that idea of trying to freeze somebody is very common with serial killers. A lot of times they will find victims staged, right, to make them look like they're still alive. And he, for whatever reason, doesn't go that route. He is trying to get rid of the evidence in total. But like when he's watching the kids play outside and is handing them the ice pops or whatever, it could be seen as okay, he's trying to groom them or he just wants to be near them because that's his thing. But it could also be seen as to him, that is perfection, and there's nothing that gets better than that. And he just wants to soak up every drop of that he can get because he's obsessed with it. He's obsessed with the idea that these kids are pure and perfect, and then he starts picking victim after victim of who he's going to not leave that perfect moment. It's absolutely twisted. But I think they do a good job of throughout the film of spiking these moments in that make everything very believable. And it's almost like two on the nose. It's like, how could he not be the killer? Early into the film, it's so believable. Maybe they're gonna try to twist it and make it somebody else, but it makes it so obvious along the way that there were signs all along that nobody even thought to look for, and that was so close to reality.

SPEAKER_02 54:45

You know what was not close to reality though, Mac? What was for me the worst fucking part of this movie? Let's talk about it. This is a nitpick. I get it. This might be silly in comparison to the rest of what maybe Binks can find is a flaw in this film. But we get to the moment where Mackie is at this parade, this fair, this event, the kids are watching him, they're posted up, the other kids break off, Davy and Woody are breaking into the house. It's not that just the sun has set. It feels like hours have passed, and yet they're only two steps into the fucking house. It was absolutely ridiculous the way they showed time elapse and time pass and try to make it seem like it had only been just a few minutes. Fucking completely inconsistent, drove me nuts watching that.

SPEAKER_00 55:37

100%. If you go looking for people's reviews, this weird slip-up is always going to come up because it's such a strange thing. Because I think if you don't pay attention to it, like good on you for not being bothered by it, but if you did and it bothered you, you are not alone here. Because it wasn't just we're going into dusk or anything like that, because that happens sometimes with bright light and then we're at dusk. It was everyone's done. Like the fair is over when literally four minutes ago it was just getting started and they were in the bright sunshine. It is such a strange thing to slip up on. And I'm I'm curious if we're missing something timeline-wise. If there's something in the film that tells us why it seemed to transition so fast, like they're in the Pacific Northwest. I don't, I think we would see a sunset, right? They have those out there, I'm pretty sure. But instead, it's like a cut to the middle of the night, but it happened in two or three minutes. It's really bad. I don't know that I could pick something worse than that to hate on for this movie. And like you said, it's a nitpick at that. I really do think they they nailed a lot of this stuff. I think the things that we find bothersome or annoying or just like, you know, kind of gross, it's because of our age. When I think if 14-year-olds and 15-year-olds watch this and listen to the way that these boys speak, they're not going to be surprised. Especially if we're talking about 14, 15-year-olds who were 14 or 15 in the 80s, in the 90s, in the 2000s. Now, I think perhaps some are a little bit more enlightened. They've been taught a little bit better, so who knows? Maybe we'd be surprised. But it's tough as an adult, and this movie is not even rated. So who are they really targeting? Is it for teens? Is it for adults? If it's for adults, I think they could have washed over that a little bit and and not spent so much time kind of focusing in on these boys' lusts. But if it's for it's if it's for the teens, if it's for people who were this age back then, are they trying to remind us of that? I just don't, I don't know that we necessarily needed to spend so much time and so much language focusing on it.

SPEAKER_01 57:35

And perhaps to me, maybe that is in some ways the best part of the film for me. And and let me articulate that a little bit better. What it what I'm trying to say is that it's basically on the fence. And I think that that's in the best interest of this film. It's on the fence of who are they targeting. It's very ambiguous in terms of its audience to some extent. Clearly, for both of you guys enjoyed it, and you're not, you know, 14-15, but I agree. I think that a 14 or 15-year-old boy would definitely have a good time with this and whatnot, even a little bit older than that, right? But closer in age to these characters where they can reminisce and relate a little bit better to that kind of humor. And overall, I think it's the potential. The potential of this film can either land really well for some people and maybe not. Like for me. Although I didn't like this movie entirely, it's not that I hated it either. I just don't think it was enough to necessarily give it a slash. But I think that's okay. This film can be one that is widespread amongst its audience. It doesn't even have to be a film that you have to be a horror junkie for. I would say maybe even the opposite. A great film to give to someone who just wants to watch a little bit of a thriller to some extent or a mystery where there's a kill. The ambiguity of this film is what makes it good and what makes it the best part for me, because we don't necessarily come across that too often on this podcast.

SPEAKER_02 59:00

Do you see yourself giving it another shot?

SPEAKER_01 59:02

Initially, I thought not, but maybe with a little bit more time. Maybe if I were to watch do a marathon of all of the similar films, right? If I were to do Disturbia, but also I was thinking of Fear Street too, a little bit. If I were to watch Fear Street, if I were to watch even Super 8, I know is not a horror, but I've wanted to watch that one, but that's similar vibes. Stranger Things I watch pro at least once a month, so that's unrelated, I guess. But you know, like those kinds of things, I would give it a shot just to see if it fares a little bit better. The downfall for this film was that I expected it to be almost like terrible and campy. And every time I have these like very incorrect expectations for this film, it's some or for a film, it turns out that it disappoints me. So I need to kind of reset that.

SPEAKER_00 59:50

I could watch it again because I watched this one alone. And so I think if somebody were interested in it or if they liked this genre, I think I'd be down to re-watch it with them. I think it should also be followed, whether it's a day or two days later, by perhaps a Goonies rewatch as well.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:06

That's actually a really great take, Mac, because I do want to watch this again. I actually really want to watch this with Ali at some point. And honestly, I'd love to share this with anybody who's also weirdly into serial killers. But for now, there you have it, folks. Summer of 84 from 2018 has earned one hack and two slashes. We've certainly had a robust discussion here, but the conversation doesn't end here by any means.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:29

We definitely want to know what you think. Do you have a neighbor you're a little suspicious about? Let us know. You can join in on the conversation by hanging out with us for free in our Discord. Click the link in our show notes to sign up.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:39

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SPEAKER_02 1:00:50

We'll see you next time, folks. And remember, he will hardly ever show you who they really are. Bank it and spank it, boys.