335: Underwater (2020)

SPEAKER_00 0:04

I'd never given much thought to how I would die, but dying in the place of someone I love seems like a good way to go. Greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hack for Slash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. Let's light this shit up. If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack, a total joke, a waste of time, or a slash.

SPEAKER_01 0:33

Totally killer unintended.

SPEAKER_00 0:35

We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, we're writing these movies with the perspective we've gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast, and this week I'm joined by the classic horror connoisseur Sean.

SPEAKER_01 0:50

Okay, I'm getting very close to shitting myself.

SPEAKER_00 0:54

This week we're diving into the depths of the Western Pacific Sea to check out a $50 million Disney film. Or more specifically, the final film made under the Disney-owned 85-year brand tenure of 20th Century Fox. This week's film is the sci-fi horror tale of a crew of oceanic researchers on a perilous mission that's upended when an earthquake devastates their drilling facility. As they struggle to get to safety, though, they face even more unimaginable threats in the depths of the Mariana Trench. This week we're talking about underwater. Sean, have you seen this one before?

SPEAKER_01 1:27

I guess I have, because I went to sit down and watch this movie, and my wife was like, No, we've seen this. Like when it came out, we watched this, and I, for the life of me, could not really remember this movie. And every time I think about this movie, every time this movie is brought up, I always feel like I blur the lines between this and 47 meters down with Mandy Moore.

SPEAKER_00 1:51

That's hilarious.

SPEAKER_01 1:53

I don't know why, but that's where my mind goes.

SPEAKER_00 1:56

Because it's water movies. I guess. I watched this the first time, the same time that I saw 47 meters and then the 47 meters uncaged sequel.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 2:08

So within that week, this is during that stretch where I was watching anything I can get my hands on that was shark-related because I had COVID and I was fucking confined to my bed.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

You just felt like watching some underwater bullshit.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

Listen, man, when I fucking get a hyper fixation, that fixation, real fucking hyper. I'm not letting anything go. I'm starting here with some fucking sharks. I'm ending up with a Megalodon. I'm ending up with a Mariana Trench. I'm circling right back around to Phantom Menace and that big ass anglerfish. So of course I've seen this one before. I was actually excited about it going into it because I'm a sucker for some deep sea bullshit, catastrophic disaster movies, creature features, nautical nonsense, and above all else, Kristen fucking Stewart. There was no way I was gonna walk into this and not have a great time unless it was pure trash.

SPEAKER_01 2:56

I'm not saying everything that Kristen Stewart touches is gold in cinema, but okay, fair, fair. I think for me, the expectation going into a film like this, even not remembering it, but the movie itself is called Underwater. You know, you read the synopsis, you're at the depths of the sea. I feel like you gotta expect to feel pretty claustrophobic while watching this one. With a film called Underwater, you gotta expect you're gonna be under the fucking water most, if not all, of the film. And I just feel like when you're underwater, there's as vast as it is, somehow, you just don't feel like you have many places to go. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 3:34

Yeah, you're saying this, Sean, and I'm immediately thinking of what a great double feature would be for this movie, and I'm thinking open water and then underwater.

SPEAKER_01 3:44

Open water, underwater. Yeah, why not? That would be a good double feature.

SPEAKER_00 3:49

But let me tell you, Sean, immediately this movie starts off with a shot of Kristen Stewart after the opening credits, and you have a voiceover. I'm gonna ruin this for anyone who hasn't seen this movie. Because Sean, is there something that you thought of when you saw that opening moment?

SPEAKER_01 4:07

Oh man, now I feel like I'm missing something.

SPEAKER_00 4:10

No, you're probably not. You're probably not, but if Binks were here or if Ari were here, I think they would have caught on to it. Okay. Because, friends, if you haven't seen this, you can't go into this and unsee how similar this feels to the opening of Twilight.

SPEAKER_01 4:26

Oh, is it? I'm trying to remember the opening of the Twilight.

SPEAKER_00 4:29

It's literally just because we have shots of Kristen Stewart and we have her voiceover and she's saying something that's mildly cryptic.

SPEAKER_01 4:37

Hmm. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 4:39

Honestly, the entire time I was re-watching this opening, all I could think about was how that opening dialogue could also apply to Edward Cullen. Except for we had a certain point where she talks about him being glass half full. Either way, I got really caught up in this moment and it filled me with a lot of joy the first time I saw it. That joy hit me again watching it this time.

SPEAKER_01 5:02

Okay. Alright, yeah, you're right. I didn't catch on to that. And I've seen Twilight a good amount of times, but I didn't catch on to that.

SPEAKER_00 5:09

Listen, I have a whole fucking parallel that we're gonna talk about later in the spoiler zone, but that shit excited me.

SPEAKER_01 5:16

Oh shit.

SPEAKER_00 5:17

And you know what? That excitement was only one of a few things that I felt because this movie opens up with this moment of stillness, this peace, this tranquility, and the kind of eerie calm that you can only find at C, but that it immediately throws you into action, it immediately escalates, and you don't have to waste time getting to know everyone because you get to know everyone in the context of them processing and dealing with crisis. But this had me really invested in what the outcome was gonna be, and I was along for the ride the entire way.

SPEAKER_01 5:48

Yeah, you know, you're right. It does open to this like really calm serenity, and it just feels like it's just nothing until it goes from zero to a hundred, and the action really kicks in, and it does catch you off guard a little bit. Not that it's like super surprising of an outcome, but it's just that it just hits a little bit earlier than you think it would hit. And I I definitely see where you're coming from there. I think for me, the interesting thing that I had, this thought process that I had, this struggle in my mind that I had when I sat down to watch this movie for the pod was is this really a horror film? Because I didn't remember much of the movie, but I'm trying to remember the movie, I'm looking at the title, even the billing, depending on where you search for it, won't always put horror in the mix, but it is in there. And I'm just trying to think of like as this movie's progressing at the beginning of this film, obviously, there is a lot of suspense throughout the film, there's a lot of tense moments for sure. It definitely gives off this sci-fi vibe, but is it really horror? That's the battle that I had going into this movie, and as I started watching this movie, and then we get to a very specific place in the movie, and I start to get the feeling of a horror movie, and then we're introduced to something that completely validates its place in horror. So that's an interesting thing that happens where the movie kind of shifts, and it's questionable for me at first. Not that it's a you know good, bad, whatever film, but just the horror aspect of the film I didn't really grasp until one specific turn of events that started happening where the movie really shifted into a different type of feeling.

SPEAKER_00 7:32

Sean, have you ever seen the movie Red Eye?

SPEAKER_01 7:34

No, I don't think so.

SPEAKER_00 7:35

Okay. Red Eye starts Killian Murphy and Rachel McAdams. The marketing is designed in such a way that when you start watching the trailer, you start watching the movie, you think it's gonna be a meet cute rom-com.

SPEAKER_01 7:47

Right.

SPEAKER_00 7:48

Then it takes a really fucking sharp turn to an entirely different genre movie. And that's what I feel like you're kind of describing here. It's one of those where it's clearly sci-fi, it's clearly disaster movie, yeah, and then all of a sudden it finds its roots and it sinks its teeth into an entire niche. And I actually really enjoy that because I feel like it's a way to penetrate mainstream media with more horror content.

SPEAKER_01 8:15

Oh, yeah, for sure. And I yeah, exactly that. I think it just was this back and forth in my mind until it did take that turn. And yeah, I think it did cement itself into this very, like you said, niche type of horror that I think a lot of people you it's gonna find people out there that like a very specific type of movie. It's gonna find people that really like a specific type of horror movie, sci-fi movie, underwater, extravaganza, what have you. And I think it it can captivate a lot of different audiences to your point. That's a very good point. But speaking of captivating, right, I think that what I was most surprised about was how captivated I was while watching this movie. Because until actually you kind of described the feeling that you had with the character development, I feel like, and that's another thing we'll have to talk about. I feel like this one, you know, really didn't have a lot to give you for like plot or storyline, right? Like you're not given a lot, you're not given a lot of whys, you're given this kind of you're just kind of placed in this scenario. And when you don't have a lot of information, it could be pretty hit or miss. But I was pretty surprised by how captivated I was, and I think you might have touched on it with the way that the film chooses to give you the information throughout the movie in the turn of events with the trauma and all the stuff that's going on. Because when you just think about the initial plot or storyline, even what you get in the synopsis, you're at some underwater bullshit at the deep sea, whatever, and you're doing some research and an earthquake happens and fucking shit happens and a bunch of people die underwater, and it's like it's boring as shit, and you really don't have much to work with with that, but somehow it still managed to do something different and keep you interested. And so I think I don't know, it's interesting that that part was surprising with how little you get at first.

SPEAKER_00 10:13

Yeah, I think one of the other things that's surprising about this is considering exactly what you said of how little you get at first, but then zooming out and looking at how much is actually baked into this movie. I'm shocked by how re-watchable I found it to be. And there's an entire component of this film that when you see it, you'll know why it's a horror movie. But I didn't know anything about this lore, I didn't know anything about this subject. Right. And I researched a little bit of it before watching it a second time leading into this episode, and you see these Easter eggs that are imprinted all over this movie, and I found that to be shocking. At first glance, this movie is self-explanatory, and I think it does a really nice job of being simple. But if you want more, you can go deeper, no pun intended. There's so much there to dig up.

SPEAKER_01 11:06

Yeah, no, for sure. It is something where once you like your first watch, I'll just tell y'all right now, like your first watch when you watch this movie, if you haven't seen it and you don't know much about it, you're probably not gonna get it until it gives it to you. And it doesn't even really give it to you. So you might not even know until you look it up afterwards as you start like diving into the movie, to be quite honest with you. But once you do know, and to your point, going back for a rewatch a second or third time, there's gotta be a whole lot more to pull out with the Easter eggs and whatnot. I will tell you though, my biggest disappointment with this film really is how heavy they leaned into this comedy aspect of the film. It felt a little bit too much, and it was really just one character. It it just felt like way too much, and I don't know if it needed that much comedy in the movie.

SPEAKER_00 11:59

You know, I see what you're saying, but I found that I didn't care about that element of it because of the stakes of everything else. Looking back on it, I think on paper I could feel or maybe see how that feels out of place. But the great thing is I think this character is played by someone who does this role well, or at least who I manage to not be annoyed by, because comedy can be so hit or miss for me. There are elements of that character that I found charming, and then looking at some of the behind the scenes stuff, there's a whole aspect to this character that went a completely different direction than was originally intended, or what this actor thought he was doing, and I think that makes it even funnier.

SPEAKER_01 12:43

Okay. Well, you know, aside from all of that though, I definitely think if you have something like thalassophobia, if you're scared of deep water, especially being underwater or even claustrophobic, don't watch this movie, right? Because that's what this movie plays on in the first half of the film, I feel like, is just that fear of being underwater and all of the setbacks that you can possibly have. And really, when you think about it, you're kind of fucked if shit's not working in your favor. It plays on the sphere of the unknown at the depths of the sea, at least in the first half of the film. And I think that's where the fright factor is really coming into play for the first half of the film.

SPEAKER_00 13:25

Yeah, it's absolutely nuts. And I know earlier this year we saw Night Swim, and I talked about how triggering that was from a swimming perspective with the way that this movie's sound design works. That movie, albeit not a perfect movie, it was very successful in that regard. And this one is really successful in the claustrophobia. Yeah, I'm afraid of water, I don't really fuck around with it. But this had so much going for it that just like amps up the anxiety as you go. And I think it really does a great job of laying out and making you feel the danger that these characters are in. Because there are moments in here that while not so terrifying, it's gonna scare you out of your skin, right? If you're a horror movie fan and you've been seeing this shit all the time, this isn't gonna freak you out. But if you watch it with someone who is not as season as you, I think they're at the very least gonna be very anxious.

SPEAKER_01 14:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:25

And that is something that I really appreciate about this movie. I will say that a lot of its components are built up from several different properties. I'm thinking about something that was to a lot of folks much scarier than this, and that's alien.

SPEAKER_01 14:40

Yep, 100%.

SPEAKER_00 14:42

Alien's DNA is all over this crime scene. But this is Alien meets Titanic, meets Poseidon, meets the Meg, meets the Abyss, meets Sphere, meets Twilight. But that doesn't make it bad.

SPEAKER_01 14:56

It doesn't make it bad.

SPEAKER_00 14:57

No, no, it doesn't make it bad at all. In fact, I'd say that it has a lot to live up to given all those influences and direct competitors.

SPEAKER_01 15:05

For sure.

SPEAKER_00 15:06

So you have to execute well to be putting on those fucking ingredients in the bot.

SPEAKER_01 15:11

It is a lot of ingredients. I would even say I mean Alien was a hundred percent what I got out of this movie for sure. That's a no-brainer. And I agree with a lot of what you said there. I also think there's some inspiration from I would even say maybe like a clover field type thing. You know what I mean? I get that kind of vibe too. We've got the HP Lovecraft, obviously. And then it takes this very specific thing, right, and uses it in a way that I feel like is pretty unique. I think it tweaks some minor things to make it work for this movie and keeps it ominous enough to keep you thinking. And so I think, man, it definitely has a lot of inspiration. But what's good about a movie that feels different is that they can have all this inspiration, but it's what they do without copying other movies. You can have the same vibe, but it really just feels like it does its own thing and stands on its own, and you can have as much inspiration as you want. It doesn't mean that you're repeating and regurgitating the same bullshit, you know?

SPEAKER_00 16:11

Yeah, and I think part of where it gets its unique identity is in the way that it approaches its ending. Not necessarily the big climax, but what you see revealed throughout the end credits. I actually was really satisfied by it, and it's one of those where I think it hits you, maybe not in an emotional place, but certainly a place where you're like, oh wow, maybe I could have wanted things to have gone differently. But the story that plays out and the way that that you see what happens on the other side of this catastrophe, it makes you feel like the world is so large, but then also so inconsequential at the same time.

SPEAKER_01 16:53

Yeah. It was uh interesting way to end the movie. I think when you I just don't know how a movie can like this can really end any other way, because this is definitely like the very end, I feel like is semi-predictable ending for sure. I think you know it's a classic kind of outcome. They do leave it a little ambiguous, which I like, and there is something that is revealed towards the end of the movie that I really enjoyed, and some of you may get it, others might have to look it up afterwards. But nonetheless, I feel like I really enjoyed that aspect of the ending. I do have one thing that I want to say about this ending that I'm gonna wait until we get to the spoiler zone to talk about, so stay tuned. But overall, this was you know the type of ending that gives you kind of like a mixed bag. There's some good, there's some bad. I don't think it's a phenomenal ending, but I do think that the parts that are maybe bad are are how predictable it ends up, but then there's some really good parts with what it gives you and how it carries the story and leaves you with this kind of ambiguous sort of outcome.

SPEAKER_00 17:56

Yeah. I am excited to see how that in particular plays into your score. But before we start rating this movie, how would you describe the gore score?

SPEAKER_01 18:05

Well, you know, it's PG 13, so we're not going to get an insane amount of blood and guts here. And there is nothing wrong with PG-13 horror. There are some great ones out there, but as for the gore, you get a couple of moments that are intense for sure, but they don't give you a ton that is going to earn this film anything other than a low gore score.

SPEAKER_00 18:26

And what about the animal report?

SPEAKER_01 18:28

I'm gonna go ahead and say that the animal report is safe here. I'm just gonna go ahead and say it's safe.

SPEAKER_00 18:34

Let's go ahead and get into our ratings then. Underwater from 2020. Was it a hack or a slash?

SPEAKER_01 18:40

Okay, well, I definitely went into this very skeptical. I didn't remember this one being a horror movie at first. I was really stuck on the idea that this was a sci-fi action thriller, you know, and I was really having a hard time being convinced the first I don't know how long of the movie, specifically for that reason. I was still, you know, watching the movie I'm entertained, but that I just couldn't get that out of the back of my head. And I want to also say that there is very little, I talked about it already, but it's very little that this movie really gives you initially with this plot. The character development at first obviously is very minimal, but as you say, the way that it progresses is pretty interesting. You even have a hard time understanding the dynamic of these so-called coworkers or friends or people or whatever, but then this movie takes this turn. The movie takes this turn, and suddenly it does feel like a horror movie. You have the right level of suspense, you have the lurking dread, the almost slasher kind of feel to it. And even though we don't have a lot to work with, with the overall story and at first with the characters, the film somehow finds this way to pull you in and feel something. And they can they they also bring in this surprising aspect that kind of it kind of caught me off guard and completely changed my view of this movie. So to be honest with you, from start to finish, it was really just like I went from cold to hot, and this movie went from being an average sci-fi underwater extravaganza to a pretty well-made creature feature. So I think for me, it ended up being a slash.

SPEAKER_00 20:27

Ooh, okay. I hear you, I hear you, men. We've already established that this isn't the most original movie you're going to see. And that's what I almost think makes it better, Sean, to hear how you went from cold to hot and just changed temperature on it so quickly. If you've gotten any experience, listener, with Alien, or honestly, really even any disaster movie, this is going to feel familiar. If you're watching the latest season of the show 911, this is gonna feel familiar. But where it shines is in this truth. This is a kick-ass sci-fi horror film that has enough action woven into it to remove the potential for what I have considered to be boring moments in some of the other movies it's inspired by and pulls from. It's engaging, it's claustrophobic, it's well written, well shot, well performed, and well constructed. This movie is technically the complete package, and it was fun. So naturally, it's a solid slash. And with that, Underwater from 2020 has earned a universal slash. You can find this movie streaming online, check the link in our showness to see where you can find it right now. Then join us in the second half so we can dive into these spoilers together. We'll see you in a bit.

SPEAKER_01 22:00

Are you bored with the stable vacations? Ready to swap sandy beaches for the mysterious abyss, then dive into a holiday with tinkerswim, thrills, and kills. We're not your typical travel company. Our destinations are as uncharted as they are thrilling. Imagine plunging into the deepest depths of the ocean. Places no one has ever gone before. Except for us. Wait, Jimmy, you've been down there, right? Well, we may have never been down that deep, but hell, that's the exciting part, right? So why settle for a snorkel with the dolphins when you can seek something truly monstrous? Forget the mundane sites of jaws. We're aiming for the mythic magnificence that could rival Cthulhu himself. Sure, we haven't fully mapped every route yet, and Jed still needs to double-check those oxygen tanks. But that's all part of the adventure, right? At Tinker's Twim, we believe the best family vacations are filled with Thrills and Guilds, hopefully the kind that you live to tell tales about. So are you ready to redefine your definition of a thrilling vacation? Then pack your bravest swim gear and join us at Tinker's Twim Thrills and Guild. Where the deeper you go, the weirder it gets. Tinker Twin Thrills and Guild is not expensive for any unfanny characteristic creatures, lots of direction for spontaneously developing aquatic features.

SPEAKER_00 23:28

Welcome back, folks. You are not entering the spoiler zone for underwater, which is earned a universal slash. Now we have a lot to unpack here, but before we get into the specifics of our ratings, let's go through those kills.

SPEAKER_01 23:40

Well, we have a healthy eight kills in this film, which is pretty good. We love to see it. And human kills that is, because we do see some deep sea creatures end their lives, you know what I mean, or have their lives ended. We'll get into that in a minute. And we're not going to talk about the end just yet because I can see some arguing the point that this big creature we get at the end dies as well, but I just don't think it does. I don't think it does, and I'll tell you why once we dive into one of my favorite parts of the film, but nonetheless, we have some kills to get into. Let's dive in. Chris, what was your favorite kill?

SPEAKER_00 24:16

Okay. I'm gonna acknowledge RIP to everyone who died before our main little grouping of characters died. I think McKellen stands out to me. My favorite kill though is going to be Rodrigo. And how sad, because Rodrigo is the second character we're introduced to in the movie. So you think maybe he and Nora will be around for a while, but then they all start falling in what I believe is the order in which she meets them. So he's the first to go, he implodes from water pressure in his suit. Yeah. And that was shocking and heartbreaking.

SPEAKER_01 24:54

Isn't that crazy? That is that was really crazy to see. The just the water pressure just making you explode or implode rather into tiny little pieces of flesh floating around in the deep sea. It's a it was really a crazy kill. It's like the first kill that we get that is just really just gnarly. I think there are some other really great kills in here. Paul, I think Paul being pulled out of his suit and eaten by one of these deep creature, deep one creature, sea creature things was pretty good as well. That's always pretty good.

SPEAKER_00 25:26

Nom nom, motherfucker.

SPEAKER_01 25:28

Yeah, we love to see that kind of shit. Captain getting dragged into the deep depths of the ocean by one of these deep sea creatures is man, that's horrific.

SPEAKER_00 25:39

Also horrific, definitely. And also how sad when she learns the actual fate of his daughter. Why he was so okay with this, why he was so okay with going.

SPEAKER_01 25:49

I know, yeah, that one hit. That one hit for sure. That was a tough one to watch for sure, or rather find out. But one little unofficial shout out, I had to put it in here, and I really wanted this to be a part of the kill count, and I think I even reached out to you about it, but it's what the one sea creature or deep one that we really get in the film that we really get to see, and it's just getting shot like you're basically being eaten, and you're shooting the thing and like busting out of its body. That was such a cool sequence of events of just man, you're getting eaten by this weird little sea creature, and then you shoot a hole in it and you try to bust through its flesh out back out into the water. Whoa.

SPEAKER_00 26:31

Yeah, I cannot imagine surviving this ordeal and having that live rent-free in my head and my nightmares.

SPEAKER_01 26:38

You went through that. Imagine just like surviving that and thinking about that on the daily.

SPEAKER_00 26:43

You know what? Sometimes debt is better. I also, though, want to acknowledge Nora Price.

SPEAKER_01 26:49

Of course.

SPEAKER_00 26:50

Let me tell you why I have such an affinity for her death. One, because there's an alternate scene filmed in which she survives.

SPEAKER_01 26:58

Really?

SPEAKER_00 26:59

So in my mind, canonically she does not die, even though I believe Kristen Stewart's preference is that she dies.

SPEAKER_01 27:06

I'm interested in the fact that there's a scenario where she lives, because for me, as impactful as her death was, and I would even dare say predictable, because how do you think it was gonna go? Like maybe she wasn't, but somebody else was gonna take the fall for saving the day. So I'm really curious to see how that alternate ending would have been.

SPEAKER_00 27:29

I'm dropping a link in the show notes right now, so you can check it out. But basically, she gets into an escape pod and makes it out at the last second.

SPEAKER_01 27:37

Just in time.

SPEAKER_00 27:39

Just in time, which I love the thought of because she is keeping these people together. She is the underwater Ripley.

SPEAKER_01 27:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:46

So I love that idea. However, in this movie, we get this narration for the opening. She's reciting this conversation and thinking of a memory of a loved one. Yeah. And she says, I think, or I dream about the first thing he ever said to me. Told me he didn't believe in time, only moments. He was a glass half full type, and I prefer it empty. There's a comfort to cynicism. There's a lot less to lose. It's deep, it's poetic, sure. But I was thinking about how in the beginning of Twilight, she says, Kristen Stewart as Bella, I'd never given much thought to how I would die. But dying in the place of someone I love seems like a good way to go. Except slightly modify and tweak it to, but dying in the place of co-workers I've come to admire but don't necessarily love seems like a great way to go.

SPEAKER_01 28:35

Oh gosh.

SPEAKER_00 28:36

So it was a really interesting parallel here. I honestly want to put these movies side by side and play that dialogue that narration over scenes from either movie and have someone fucking tell me they don't fit perfectly.

SPEAKER_01 28:50

I could see the scenes fitting for sure. I think it's a little stretch to go from dying with loved ones to dying with coworkers because I ain't dying for any co-workers out here, you know what I'm saying? But alright.

SPEAKER_00 29:01

Nah, dog. Yeah, her death was disappointing for me. Although I will say, at least very memorable. And I admire the conviction, I admire the desire, I admire the point, I admire the sacrifice, and I also admire that her colleague is trying to stop and trying to say, no, I'll help you, I'll stay, I'll fix it together. And she literally fucking punches her to get her in the pod.

SPEAKER_01 29:27

Oh, great moment.

SPEAKER_00 29:28

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 29:29

Yeah, that's a great moment for sure. I just think as much as you want your character that you're latching on to live in the movie, right? As much as you want the final girl and all that stuff to live and you're rooting for that character, I felt like it was, I personally think it was good. I I think it's cool that that ending where she lives, but I think it's cool if she dies. I think it's much more impactful. I think it was she did all of this work to get these people out of there, and she did that, and she made the ultimate sacrifice. And sometimes that's a way to have a happy ending that's not so happy. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 30:07

Yeah, I do think it makes sense for her character.

SPEAKER_01 30:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:10

I just love Kristen Stewart and want her alive.

SPEAKER_01 30:12

I get ya.

SPEAKER_00 30:13

This is my bias, and I admit it, I'm okay with that. Also, I've seen the alternate ending in which she lives, so now it's burned in my brain forever, and I cling to this hope every day. This is what I do, this is who I am. I won't apologize for it.

SPEAKER_01 30:27

It's all good. It's all good. There's no harm in it.

SPEAKER_00 30:31

Yeah, but speaking of Kristen Stewart, I want to shout it out to what I think is the best looking part of this movie. And it's not Kristen Stewart, but it is the cinematography and the set design. But specifically the cinematography and the slow-mo explosions and implosions we get first when the rig implodes and we have all this pressure destroying everything, she's reaching out her hand, she's realizing, oh shit, there's water coming down, and then suspended in slow motion, you see everything collapsing. And then after they get the door shut to save the rest of the rig, another explosion.

SPEAKER_01 31:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:13

It just looked so great. And I feel like slow-mo is such a dangerous thing because they can almost lean too far into feeling like a m like the Matrix, but here it was done sparingly, and it was done what I think was beautifully.

SPEAKER_01 31:29

Yeah, the slow-mo parts were definitely well done. I think underwater movies for the most part always look pretty cool. I feel like the set design is definitely a good one. I even think the sound design was pretty good. I think it was ominous, I think it was eerie, I think it worked really well. For me, you know, I'm not saying graphics-wise, we're getting the best thing we ever saw, but I do like the design of the creatures, especially the big creature we get at the end, right? I think this is where the movie really solidified itself in horror because you have this monster, and if you don't know by now, this main big sea creature is actually confirmed to be Cthulhu from HP Lovecraft's Cthulhu, right? So if you don't know, now you know. And it's like this Titan god creature with tentacles coming from its head, it's wild. All the little sea creatures coming off of it could very well be and probably are what HP Lovecraft calls the deep ones. So you have all these different creatures now, and it's not necessarily the fact that it tied just that it tied the creatures to HP Lovecraft that solidified it in horror, but it's the moment that we have the group like going off after the earthquake, after the station starts to break apart, and you have the explosions and the water pressure, but it's when they go to set out to make their trip to the next station across the ocean floor, however many fucking miles below they are, like seven or eight or some crazy shit like that, and you have this shift from disaster movie to slasher movie because it just feels like you're being stalked. You're you're being stalked by this creature that you're not really seeing at first at all, and it's very well done, and it's very cool to see it happening underwater. I've seen some underwater movies that aren't really that good. I've seen an underwater horror movie where people snorkel to this fucking underwater house, and you got the fucking ghosts coming out of the house underwater, and it just is it was stupid. But this I feel like was really well done. The way that they set the tone for this movie and the shift that it took was really cool.

SPEAKER_00 33:52

Ooh, that is such a perfect transition to what was my favorite scene in the entire movie. Sean, they all reunite, they're dragging Smith, and when they enter the roadbuck, there is an entire nest hanging from the ceiling. They're trying to sneak by.

SPEAKER_01 34:10

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:11

The light is flashing, it's red, it's spooky, but then there's the sound of the oxygen alarm, and all fucking hell breaks loose. Absolutely incredible.

SPEAKER_01 34:21

That was yeah, ooh, yeah. That was a good one for sure. That was a very good one. I liked a lot of little things in this movie. I really loved some of just the shots that we got that don't involve a whole lot of anything. I really loved the shot that we got under the water at the beginning, where we're just descending down towards the station. That scene was really beautiful. It was really a really cool thing to watch. And you want comedy in this movie a little bit. I think what you just said at the end, where Kristen Stewart does just pop the girl right in the mouth to get her on the escape pod. That's a great scene. That's the kind of stuff that'll cut through the tension of this movie and give you a little chuckle because that was a great moment.

SPEAKER_00 35:13

Yeah. Oh my gosh. What else was a great moment? They're running around, they're near the end. You think, okay, they can get to the escape pods, they can get out of there, and then all you hear in the background is tea in industries. We've got big things in store for you.

SPEAKER_01 35:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:29

There's literally a giant fucking monster outside.

SPEAKER_01 35:32

The employee propaganda.

SPEAKER_00 35:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 35:35

Oh my gosh, that's what it was. It was employee propaganda playing in the background, and all the stupid posters were like, work together, be stronger.

SPEAKER_00 35:43

Oh my god, I hate it. It was so good though. It was so brilliantly placed. And it alludes to this more sinister nature of did TN Industries A, obviously they were negligent and they cover everything up, but did they A know what was down there and proceed regardless? Or did they know what was down there and they're actually trying or actually part of a group or a cult that is trying to get this creature free?

SPEAKER_01 36:13

Well, see, now that's the question, right? That is the question at hand because we don't know. It could be any of those things. Does this are we just dumb? We're just drilling the earth all the way at the bottom of the sea. I don't know if they ever really explain why we're drilling, but we're drilling down there for what at resources we have. And do they know? Are they looking for this sea monster? Are they looking for Cthulhu? Do they are they clueless? And obviously we get to the end and we know that they do know because these motherfuckers told them what the fuck was going on down there, but they still confirm that they're like, Well, we'll just uh we'll just brush this under the bed and and we'll get another drill going down there. No problem. You I mean you guys killed it, right? Like it's totally fine. So yeah, cool, cool. Nothing to see here. Nothing to see here. But here's the thing like we have all these questions about did they know what is this Cthulhu character, why is it here? And I can see some die hard Lovecraft fans retrospective or yeah, retrospectively just wishing that this movie had done a little bit more with Cthulhu and its origins after its presence was confirmed in this film. I feel like it's interesting because I'm kind of hit or miss with it. I'm I don't know. I definitely want to know a little bit more about what's happening here, but I feel like the fact that the movie leaves it a little bit ambiguous is also kind of keeping in line with Lovecraft because that's what Lovecraft is all about. I feel like Lovecraft is very ominous as well, and I think it kind of almost, I don't know, maybe that's a hot take, I'm not sure, but I feel like it almost leaves it in this Lovecraftian way that is just really kind of fitting. But here's the thing there's also this underlying message about climate change in this movie, and suddenly this movie becomes very self-aware, I feel like, because I I love how on the other side of this Lovecraftian horror monster is this metaphor or analogy maybe for climate change. It's this whole message about humans ruining this planet and us just turning the ocean itself into this sort of antagonist where it, you know, you have this moment where Emily says, We've drilled too deep, we've taken too much, and now the ocean and the planet is fighting back, and this is very real. It's something that, hey, it's probably inevitable. I'm not saying that there's gonna be a fucking titan of a fucking sea creature that's gonna come and eat us alive, but I'm telling you, at some point this world's gonna fight back and we're gonna fucking we're all gonna be in for it.

SPEAKER_00 38:52

Yeah, but figuratively it's true. Yeah, it's not gonna be some literal titan crawling from the sea, but we just stay fucking things up, man, and that's the reality of it. That's the moral of the story. However, I think what's interesting here is how well all these characters come together to tell that story and how the rig itself feels like its own character, how teen industries feels like a very well-developed character, and all you have is propaganda in the background and newspaper clippings. That's all you have. Despite this movie dropping you immediately into action, how does every fiber of its world feel so tangible?

SPEAKER_01 39:40

I love that you're bringing this up because I feel like, in a way, you're kind of connecting the dots in my own mind of the gaps that I didn't really put together in some ways, like the propaganda stuff with the in the station being part of what we get as a character for this company. That's a really good way to put it. I also love how you opened this episode here tonight of talking about the characters and how you don't get any character development at first, and how you're learning about the characters and the dynamic of these characters as the movie progresses in the things that they do and the fears that they have and the choices they make and how everybody's so different. And I feel like you might have to give this one a second watch, folks, because I and maybe it's just me and my own limitations right now. But when I watched this, I felt like for me, that most of the movie I had a really hard time connecting the dots between these characters, and I felt like there wasn't a lot of depth to the character development here, and it was something that was really tough for me. But now that I'm reflecting on it, and obviously we do get some key things with these characters and like people that are just scared. You know, we have Emily where she's at the beginning of this very frightened, like she can't even fathom stepping foot in the direction of making this however long trek to the next station. But by the end of the movie, somehow the group gets separated and she's fucking trucking it, dude. She's all the way over there dragging this dude who's fucked up, right, across the ocean floor. And I think that is crazy to see that character's development. So now you reflect on the movie, and the things that you're saying are just kind of connecting the dots for me.

SPEAKER_00 41:22

Yeah, what I love about Emily in particular is that she shows what I feel to be the indomitable human spirit. She was scared as hell. You have all this fear, and yet here she is persisting and having every opportunity and being vulnerable about that. You don't look at her and think there's a brave person who's gonna make it to the end of the movie. You don't. Nora largely keeps her cool and is probably like internally panicking and trying to calculate and trying to figure things out. But Emily is the one who, if you were in the situation with her, would think you'd think, Oh, you're being too emotional. You're panicking, you're making this even more stressful. And I think there are even some moments where several of the characters have glimpses of that. But what I love is that we get this vulnerability and we show that it's not that Emily is too emotional, she's just scared out of her mind and she's processing that, she's reconciling with that, she's holding space for that, and then also continuing to persist.

SPEAKER_01 42:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:28

Granted, it takes her getting punched in the face to actually get on the pod and escape with her own life, but it's absolutely incredible to me how everything comes together and how you see these people have these rich lives that they describe in little detail here and there. You learn that Nora's partner or her husband or fiance, her lover was connected and one of these guys' best friend. And I will say this though I get it, it adds to her character. I don't disagree that the tragedy of Nora Price really adds something special to the decisions that she makes. However, you can't convince me this woman was married to a man. You can't do it.

SPEAKER_01 43:16

Uh you know what, actually, I'm gonna admit that that is a hundred percent true.

SPEAKER_00 43:22

It's not even from what people may think is the obvious, but when she describes that relationship, she sounds so void of passion. And some people might say, That's Kristen Stewart, that's just how she No, it's not. She can emote, she does a great job delivering this role in every sense of the word, except for that relationship. That is the one element of this movie that I did not buy. And between her having this previous relationship to her death, they're neck and neck tied for the worst part of the movie for me.

SPEAKER_01 43:56

Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 43:57

Only because the relationship Almost felt like an afterthought and that it really served no end for the movie. Again, the tragedy of here, like the depth of her loss, like her being able to grapple with loss, I understand.

SPEAKER_01 44:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:12

But it could have been any loss. It could have been loss of a friend, loss of a co-worker, loss of a family member. It could have been anything.

SPEAKER_01 44:18

Yeah. It was the whole tie too, though, because she was he was friends with Smith, and it was this whole thing. But do you think it even needed to be a thing? Because it felt like almost they were just trying to reach for some kind of reason for her to be down there in the first place. That's kind of what it felt like to me, but I don't know that we really needed to know any of that stuff. And I don't even think that's one of the things that I felt like was hard when we talk about like the dynamic of these relationships. It was hard for me to buy into the dynamic of the relationships for me because I feel like that is a specific example where you're not convinced, you're not getting buy-in for what they're giving you here, and they don't really dive into it enough for you to really feel the relationship between these characters are linked that heavily. Because I didn't really link those things together. Well, obviously the movie linked it together for us, but I didn't really feel it in that same regard as well.

SPEAKER_00 45:21

It's fucking weird, man. Didn't like it. Yeah. Couldn't have done without it.

SPEAKER_01 45:25

Yeah, I think so.

SPEAKER_00 45:26

And it didn't even have to be it didn't even have to be a romantic relationship. But I I do acknowledge that at least it makes her like a very like well-defined, well-rounded person.

SPEAKER_01 45:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:35

I just struggle with that component of it. And maybe it'll grow on me later, but from the beginning dialogue and talking about cynicism to the random picture she finds of the two of them together to the discussion uh with Emily about him. It just felt like, okay, every time this happens, I feel like I care a little bit less. That also might be my bias, so I'm gonna sit with that tonight and I'm gonna think about it.

SPEAKER_01 46:02

Think about it. Nice.

SPEAKER_00 46:04

Maybe my feelings would change if I were to watch it again.

SPEAKER_01 46:07

Possible. Well, let's talk about Paul. I gotta talk about Paul because I feel like you've got something that you want to talk about with Paul. And for me, I don't dislike the dude. I actually think that his comedy is pretty funny. That type of character he does, I think, is potentially giving one dynamic, but I also feel like it's not the worst thing in other movies that I've seen him play this pretty much exact character. It's fine. I just felt like it didn't feel like I needed this character the entire time throughout the film. I felt like it just kept and it wasn't like egregiously hardcore comedy, it wasn't over-the-top comedy, it was just an it was just a little bit too much of a comedic relief in moments that I didn't feel like I needed comedic relief. It felt relentless.

SPEAKER_00 46:56

That's fair. I think maybe it's also what I heard some people say about like if you look at the 2018 Halloween, we have this funny ass kid who's being babysat. Some people love that dose of comedy, some people did not.

SPEAKER_01 47:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:08

I get how it could be out of place for some. The thing about Paul, and this is what I find hilarious, the original intention was for him to have a real rabbit, but they replaced it with a stuffed rabbit over this course of the production.

SPEAKER_01 47:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 47:21

And the course of the the planning here. But TJ Miller thought that they were gonna have a real rabbit in the final film. So he was holding it and being so precious with it, because in his mind he's supposed to be protecting a real living thing.

SPEAKER_01 47:36

Holding a real rabbit?

SPEAKER_00 47:38

Yeah, so he's doing his best to project that, to present that. And here he is looking a little bit more fucking maniacal because he's this precious about a fake rabbit.

SPEAKER_01 47:50

I feel like I now just have to watch it just to see him holding the stuffed animal rabbit.

SPEAKER_00 47:56

That is exactly what I paid attention to the entire time I watched it this time around because I was like, I need to see how conf how cautious he is. And you know, that's the thing though, Sean. The rabbit of it all is so good, and the comedy, while I can acknowledge might be out of place, still does not distract from my complication and my concern about Nora Price's bullshit relationship. I'm thinking like I was on the fence between her death and that relationship being the worst part of the movie. I'm gonna say the relationship for now. And the way that it was ham-fisted into the plot unnecessarily.

SPEAKER_01 48:30

It's fair. Obviously, we just talked about it. I I could easily say the worst part for me is the overuse of comedy with Paul's character, but the more that I've talked through this episode tonight with you and talking about the lore of this movie and all of that, I think in all honesty, you know, going back and forth, I would have liked to have explored the origins of Cthulhu a little bit more in this film. I understand the effectiveness of keeping it ambiguous in the same vein as Lovecraft, but I do feel as though people that are not well versed in HP Lovecraft are going to have a really hard time connecting the dots in this movie. I don't think the movie gives you a lot of confirmation of what the lore is in this movie. I think that it definitely turns into a creature feature. You definitely have that, but I don't think unless you're really in the know of this type of thing or you do some research that you're really going to instantly connect the dots to Cthulhu, HP, Lovecraft, and Underwater.

SPEAKER_00 49:36

You know, I think I'm strangely at peace without having much more context than exists in this film. Again, I mentioned earlier that there's so much that's baked in about Cthulhu and the lore of it and the potential for it. What does Teen Industries have to do with this whole thing? Were they negligent or were they knowledgeable? Were they just reckless? And I'm curious to see how that changes on my next watch. Now, having done a little bit more research, having talked about this with you, I think the next time I watch this movie, I'm going to just look for that and try to see how much uh better I think it could be with some more context. Because not again, not knowing anything, I was totally fine with it when first watching this movie because I didn't know shit about it, but I don't have to know shit about Lovecraft to know that fucking monster's scary.

SPEAKER_01 50:32

That's fucked up. That's true.

SPEAKER_00 50:33

It's just water, it's bad, no good.

SPEAKER_01 50:36

Yeah, but it's like once you know, you know what I mean? I feel like once you know, then it's like, okay, yeah, ignorance is bliss almost, right? I think that's the key thing here. So you can definitely just have a good time with this being a creature feature, but once you know specifically what the creature is, maybe that's where the rewatch value is for me at least, because then I now really want to watch this movie a lot sooner than I originally intended on wanting to watch this movie because now I want to look out for the Easter eggs, I want to look out for the signs, I want to look out for a little bit more, and I also want to watch this guy fucking hold this bunny now. So now I feel like there's a whole lot more reasons to watch this way sooner than I originally intended. I originally was gonna be like, eh, maybe, and now I'm like, yeah, probably.

SPEAKER_00 51:26

Wow, I love this so much, and I cannot wait to hear how your opinion evolves over time. But for now, there you have it, folks. Underwater from 2020 has under Universal Slash thus far. We've certainly had a robust discussion here, but it doesn't end here by any means. We want to know what you think. Was the comedy out of place? Was TJ Miller overrated? Let us know. You can join in on the conversation by hanging out with us for free over in our Discord. And you can click the link in our show notes to sign up.

SPEAKER_01 51:54

And if you've enjoyed diving into the depths of the ocean with us, consider becoming one of our patrons. Visit patreon.com slash hackerslash to enjoy more of the show with early access, extended episodes, bonus content, and live shows.

SPEAKER_00 52:09

We'll see you next time, folks. And remember, there's a comfort in cynicism.

SPEAKER_01 52:13

And if he doesn't make it, I'll haunt you.