339: Longlegs (2024)

SPEAKER_04 0:04

There are so many mercs in this movie, I can't even decide which one.

SPEAKER_03 0:11

Greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hacker Slash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. There she is. The almost birthday girl. If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack, a total joke, a waste of time, or a slash.

SPEAKER_02 0:31

Totally killer. Pun intended.

SPEAKER_03 0:33

We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, we're rating these movies with a perspective we've gained from our bearing walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast, and this week I'm joined by the Superfly Space Guy Mac.

SPEAKER_02 0:47

Are you still saying your prayers?

SPEAKER_03 0:49

The classic horror connoisseur Sean.

SPEAKER_02 0:51

My wife's getting pretty good at faking it.

SPEAKER_03 0:53

And the paranormal paramore, Binks. Save me from the hell of living. While last week's film Maxine took us to the Hollywood set of Alfred Hitchcock's Psycho, this week's film comes to us from the son of Psycho star Anthony Perkins. Osgood Perkins collaborated with Nicolas Cage to weave a tale that pays homage to their mothers and explores the curated truths and protective lies our parents tell us. The film follows an FBI agent as she unravels occult clues left behind by a serial killer, and the tale drives her deeper into a web of mystery and danger. The film's carefully curated atmosphere and meticulous imagery draws comparisons to the likes of The Silence of the Lambs, Zodiac, and Seven, but itself unravels a story that reflects how the blurred lines between truth and fiction influence our perception. This week we're talking about long legs. What were you all expecting from this?

SPEAKER_00 1:45

I just want to say I had zero expectations about this movie. I didn't get into any of the marketing material and there was a lot of gorilla marketing going on. I didn't look for anything on the hype train, didn't watch any teasers or anything like that. I simply listened to how excited other people were, and then tempered my expectations with the fact that it could be alright, or it could just be a total joke with good marketing.

SPEAKER_04 2:06

Yeah, meanwhile, I feel like I've been waiting for this film for what feels like years, and reality has just been a few months at best. I remember seeing the cryptic symbols on a lot of my social media accounts. Obviously, when we went to see all of these movies in theaters, the quick moments of like just red and the cryptic symbols, or eventually the trailer, which I've only seen one particular trailer. I know that they had announced obviously different variations, and I stopped at that point, tried to remove myself from as much guerrilla marketing as I could, but the other day I posted on our social media that I called the phone number and did a reaction on our Instagram and our TikTok. And boy, oh boy, that definitely set the expectation to some extent. I mean, obviously, extreme unsettlement, dark subject matter, Nicolas Cage that we're never gonna forget, that I believe only Osgood Perkins can do because he's a little bit of a madman. After calling that phone number, all of those expectations just really solidified it.

SPEAKER_02 3:11

Yeah, I mean, that's the thing. There really was a lot of really great marketing for this film, from the teaser trailer that was to me very creepy, really ominous, to the full trailer that just left you wanting more. And so they just did so much. That phone call you're talking about, it just felt like they marketed this film so perfectly. And out of everything that we got, I was really expecting this to be more of this darker silence of the lambs type shit.

SPEAKER_03 3:41

Darker Silence of the Lambs is such a great way to summarize an expectation for this. Look, we have Nicolas Cage, and he has been on a journey. We know that he was doing just about anything he could to pay off some old debts. It's hard to believe that I was uh excited to come into this movie starring the same guy who said, Bees, not the bees, in The Wicker Man. It's really wild to sit back and think about that. But he's been hitting a lot of gold lately. Even his portrayal as Dracula in the campy movie Renfield was top-notch. So I expected a more serious, more sinister Nicolas Cage, but I expected a little bit of the glee and just theatrics to really shine for him. What I was really curious to see was how he would feel starring against Mike Monroe. So I was really excited going into this movie, and throughout it, I felt really engaged. It was creepy, it was unsettling, and it felt slow. And I wouldn't say slow to the point of boredom, but slow in a way that in my opinion pays homage to Silence of the Lambs. It's tension and its atmosphere that's building each moment that the movie carries on.

SPEAKER_00 5:00

It's so interesting that you mentioned Silence of the Lambs because there's just something so tonally similar to a lot of other properties that I love. Silence of the Lambs is one of them. Seven is another true detective, mind hunter. It doesn't have to be reality, right? But the things that need to feel real feel real and it has this grounding effect. That effect itself creates its own level of tension.

SPEAKER_04 5:21

I love all the Fincher nods. My heart's just exploding with joy. I completely agree though. I think that this film definitely does an incredible job of slowing down the pace just right, where you feel the tension, you never feel bored. It's all purposeful. And the thing with this film is that I felt like I was taken down an unsettling road that I had prepared to go down, right? But somehow got turned about on the way. Not in a bad way, but more in the sense that all of my expectations that I just mentioned, they were met, but not entirely in the way that I imagined it. And that's what made this fun for me. I was laughing, I was nervous laughing, I was captivated, I was definitely uncomfortable. I felt like I had like this sense of emotion bottled up in my throat. I don't know if it was that I wanted to cry or not. I just felt like I just needed uh to escape. Maybe it was anxiety building up. So bizarre. And I the best way I can summarize it is that face, we know that I'm a very, I guess we can say, like my face and my emotions are very much expressive. The oh what the fuck face that I tend to put on when I'm shocked was permanent throughout the whole film. Just permanent. As I'm experiencing all these emotions and this range of emotions that I didn't anticipate to have entirely.

SPEAKER_02 6:48

Well, you said it earlier. Uncomfortable, I think, is the best way to describe the feeling of this movie because there is this subtle, I don't know if it's awkwardness to this film where everything just feels a little bit off, and the characters play into that feeling really well, so never leaves you feeling completely comfortable to where you can like let your nerves settle while you're watching the film, even though it is a slower pace. It just builds that tension and it does it at its own pace, and it does it in just a great way. I can tell you what I didn't feel while watching this movie, and that was surprised. I was not surprised by much of anything in this movie, because between my wife Ari and myself, we pretty much guessed everything before it happened as the movie was unraveling, and that's probably my biggest disappointment with this movie. It was just wildly predictable. Nothing to say that it's bad, but it was very predictable.

SPEAKER_03 7:45

I'm right there with you, Sean, because there's a big part of this story that even if it wasn't predictable, I don't think a lot of it was like baked in with the intention of being predictable. For me, as someone who has watched a lot of horror, there's a lot that's in there where I'm like, ooh, okay, this feels a little apparent, which is fine. But there's an aspect to the story that I'm disappointed they leaned into. And it's not a huge disappointment by any means. It's not a glaring hole in the film where I'm like, oh yeah, I could have completely done without this, and it really tanked the movie's reputation. So that was a surprise for me. But unlike you, I was surprised by how much comedy was in this movie. And that's not to say it's a horror comedy, folks. And it's surprising that it's also not even coming from Nicolas Cage, but this movie is perfectly punctuated with moments of levity that I think make you grow for more fond of some of our central characters. It really plays on the chemistry and the dynamics between them in a way that I found super fresh for this kind of film.

SPEAKER_00 8:50

Kind of surprised that you weren't surprised, Sean, because you know, I was looking forward to whatever Nicolas Cage wanted to serve us. We know what to expect from Nick Cage, which is whatever he wants to give us, right? But I was not prepared for Mike and Monroe. I think that this was perhaps the best horror performance of the year, at least so far. Of the movies I've watched, Micah Monroe really stunned me here. And it's it's really because I had no expectations. I don't know that I've seen her in other things. You know, I didn't know what was going to happen in this movie, but even if I did, even if I had the plot broken down for me, I would not have had that sort of betrayal, that sort of character work in mind. This film did so much work through showing rather than telling. Everything these days, we have to have 15-minute expositions, we have to have massive amounts of dialogue. But Micah Monroe was literally able to give us so much about a character simply with facial expressions, looks of discomfort, looks of processing. There was so much here just on screen without speech. And as soon as we get the dialogue delivered, it was so rich.

SPEAKER_04 9:52

Mac, I'm gonna honestly agree with you a hundred percent. You just lit a light bulb in my head. I think you're honestly right. This might actually be the best horror performance so far of this year of the new releases we've gotten. And I would dare say that the only contender to that, in my opinion, is Nell Tiger Free and the first omen, but they are pretty neck and neck.

SPEAKER_03 10:11

I was wondering if that's where you're going because I mean you love that movie and her performance in it so much.

SPEAKER_04 10:18

They are neck and neck, and you know what it is though, is that when this movie came out, I knew that it was going to compete with my love for the first omen. I knew it. I had a feeling that this was gonna be who's gonna win it. They're gonna duke it out at the end in terms of best horror of the year. But what I can tell you right now, performances, absolutely the two of them are neck and neck. We'll see how I feel about this movie in general. In terms of disappointments, I gotta say, I'm not gonna speak so much for myself. I'm gonna speak more in terms of the people I went to see this movie with and how I feel like the audience might feel. And I think it's that the hype for this movie comes out, you're gonna feel like, damn, I'm about to walk into this theater and experience something absolutely frightening, and I'm going to be afraid of sleeping tonight and all of these things. Folks, I gotta tell you, I don't know necessarily if that's what you're gonna get. Let's temper down those expectations just a smidge. Oh my gosh. I, however, feel like this is still a frightening and horrific movie. So, on the disappointment factor, I'll say I would have maybe wanted a little bit more lingering moments of terror, a little bit more gore per se. Although I maybe would have been sacrificing a bit more of this existentialness or this, I guess, element of suspense and this tonal eeriness that this film has. But when we talk about fear, right, and and this fright factor of the film, I don't think it's entirely scary in the way that you might expect. Nicolas Cage is a frightening man. He might make you laugh, but you're never gonna forget that man. That is without a doubt.

SPEAKER_03 12:01

100%. This movie is unsettling, it's creepy, but it's not scary in the way that I think a large audience would expect it to be. And I actually worry about the expectations that this movie's marketing might give to viewers. Even Ali, who avoided a lot of the marketing, thought, wow, okay, it's a really good movie, but it feels anticlimactic based on the hype surrounding it. And that doesn't detract from the value of the movie. This is really well engineered, but I worry that too much hype might temper people's reactions to it in a negative way that it's not intending.

SPEAKER_04 12:39

And I think it's because we have to approach this film with the fact that it's something that can happen in real life. And I do appreciate that about the marketing. They are treating the marketing as if this is a true crime, like this, these are cases that have happened in real life. That's how you need to approach this film. Don't think you're gonna get the jump scares.

SPEAKER_02 13:00

Kind of like they did with the Blair Witch project.

SPEAKER_04 13:03

Exactly. I completely agree, just like the Blair Witch project.

SPEAKER_00 13:06

I'll sum it up by saying no one in my theater made a peep during this movie. But I know people that watch true crime and watch documentaries who would be freaked out by what's in this film. 100%. But everyone was silent when we watched it, except for the moments of laughter.

SPEAKER_02 13:22

Uh yeah, this movie is disturbing at times. It's uncomfortable and unsettling for most, if not all, of the film's runtime. But scary, I think, is a tough one to decipher. I don't know how scary it was. Nicolas Cage is definitely a little disturbing to look at. There are no real jump scares that you're really gonna get in this movie. They do build some suspense, but even then, it's really the kind of movie that just it lingers in your mind. It's not the type of movie that's going to like really just spook you in the moment, jump scares, heighten your nerves, pop-outs, and things like that. It's something where it's layered. This movie has layers to the story, and it lingers in your mind. And I think the more that you think about it, the more that you think about what you just watched, the more sinister it really becomes. And maybe that's where the movie is scary.

SPEAKER_00 14:19

Yeah, you know, we mentioned movies earlier on that have similar tones or similar themes that really stuck with people. I just I can't put my finger on it. What this reminded me of the most, though, you know, I think the performances themselves really took this to a different level than everything else that we could compare it to, and it and it truly stands out, even if it's not jump scare central, which is always a good thing, by the way. I think it just has its own vibe.

SPEAKER_03 14:43

It does. And here's the thing: we've seen serial killers play cat and mouse with FBI agents. Literally that role, not just law enforcement at large, but specifically with the FBI.

SPEAKER_01 14:54

True.

SPEAKER_03 14:55

What feels different though is the way that this felt so much more intimate. And I think about even Silence of the Lambs, Silence of the Lambs was pretty fucking intimate. We think about how quotable that movie is. Have the lamb stopped screaming, Clarice. But there's something about this that feels more like it's crawling inside my skin and feels more personal.

SPEAKER_00 15:18

It's a different level or different type of intimacy than something you would get in taking lives, though. It's almost on a soul level.

SPEAKER_02 15:25

Yeah. I really like the way you describe that intimacy because I feel like this movie is gonna have a lot of different reactions from people, right? You could say Silence of the Lambs or Seven meets Amityville Horror meets Annabelle or whatever, right? You could throw so many different things in here, but I think the way that it delivers the story is where you gotta give it its credit. And that intimate level that you're talking about, Chris, is such a good point because it is some of the same that you have seen in a lot of other movies in the past, but the way that it delivers it to you, the way that it focuses on some of these key characters and the performance that these key characters give to tell their story is very unique.

SPEAKER_04 16:08

There's one film in particular that I wanted to highlight. It's Kyoshi Kirosawa's Cure. It's one of my favorite films. I just watched it recently, just bought it on Criterion. That's the film that this reminds me of the most. And I know that Osgood Perkins has loved this movie in the past and all the other Fincher ones that we've highlighted, of course, which warms my heart. And the Silence of the Lambs is screaming. But one thing I gotta say that I love about Osgood Perkins at this point is that he has left his directorial mark on his films at this rate with just about two of them. I mean, I know that he's done other ones, right? But Blackcoat's daughter, if you haven't seen Blackcoat's daughter, do it. Because this film is Blackcoat's daughter. It's artistically the same, almost worse in the sense of unsettlement. But the moment that this film started, I was like, oh, I know what he's doing here. The way that he directs the camera, the way that he's writing the dialogue, this tension that he's building, it's very similar to his film that he did prior. And I love that because it's almost like a trademark per se. And I love when directors they leave their mark. You know when you're watching a Yorgos Lanthamos film, you know when you're watching a Fincher film, all of these things. And it's nice to see that in this particular director that's starting off relatively new in a sense, right? Like this is what seems to be his biggest film so far. And that's great. I'm I hope that it obviously will be so successful because I'm interested to see where this goes. And we've talked a lot about intimacy in terms of the tone. Nothing feels more intimate than this ending, I gotta say. This ending, boy, oh boy, I was shooketh. I I may have anticipated some of it. I thought it was incredible. Whether your suspicions were spot on or not, Sean, you mentioned that you definitely guessed it. I just feel like you're not gonna actually be prepared for what's to come and how it all unfolds.

SPEAKER_03 18:03

Yeah, there's a lot in here that I saw coming, but there's more that I did not see coming. And so I think that is a really refreshing piece to this. It has an interesting ending, but where I struggle is is I don't know how to feel because the major component of this film that I'm not caring for does present itself very heavily in the third act, specifically towards the ending. And it's one of those where I feel like if we made just a slight tweak, we could have resulted in what I think would be a perfect movie. But there's a note in there where I just have some ambiguity. And maybe it would be different on a rewatch. Maybe if I get to catch this at home and really slow it down and reflect on it and sit on it. But right now, right after leaving the theater, sitting down and thinking about it, if I summarize all the things I like about the movie, the ending is not even in the top seven.

SPEAKER_02 18:55

Really?

SPEAKER_03 18:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:57

I can't wait to hear you dive into some of these reasons a little bit more in the spoiler zone, but for me, the ending is the best part of the film. It was semi-predictable at parts, but I didn't predict everything exactly the way it played out. There is something really, I don't know, sinister about this ending, I feel, and there is just a lot to think about and a lot to discuss, and I'm sure we're gonna dissect it a little bit more, and I can't wait for that because there is a lot to unpack, but I really enjoyed the ending.

SPEAKER_00 19:28

It was solid, and not everyone's going to expect it, especially from the start of the film. That's a good, a good sign, I think, is that you start watching this, you don't know really know where it's gonna take you by the end of it. Now, as you go along, some of us are gonna put it together, and that's okay because I don't think it's about twists and surprises, it's about resolution or lack thereof. And of course, we get to like the very final shot. It's just an actor doing what they do best. No more to say about that without spoiling it. So I think all in all, I was satisfied. There's parts of this film that I can't wait to discuss after the break here because I have some disappointments for sure that I couldn't discuss earlier without spoiling anything.

SPEAKER_03 20:05

Well, I can't wait to see how this all shakes out in our ratings. But before we get there, Sean, how would you describe the gore score?

SPEAKER_02 20:11

Well, there is not gonna be much for all you gore lovers out there. They're not, you're gonna get some blood, maybe one gruesome scene that's truly gruesome. You know what I mean? You're not gonna get oversaturated with a whole lot of blood and gore and guts and all that jazz in this one. Overall, this one's giving a low gore score despite its long legs.

SPEAKER_03 20:32

And what about the animal report?

SPEAKER_04 20:34

Well, we definitely have some animal negligence. And then a full-on dismemberment. So I'd say both you and Pito would not be too happy.

SPEAKER_03 20:43

Well, let's go ahead and get into our ratings then. Long legs from 2024. Is it a hack or a slash?

SPEAKER_00 20:49

You know, this feels like a generational moment. I know people who were so psyched for this. The mystery, the hype, it got them really fired up. And as soon as I started watching it, I realized they were gonna be blown away. It's an absolutely rich watch with a stellar lead performance that sticks with you, like those from Jodie Foster and Silence of the Lambs, Brad Pitt, and Seven. You know, Nick Cage does what Nick Cage does best here, but his energy is focused, it's restrained, it's channeled, and then it's let loose as a character that's honestly sure to stick with Binks every time somebody sings her happy birthday. I enjoyed the pacing, the setting, the camera work, the wardrobe, the makeup, the audio, the characters, all of it. It's just a slash.

SPEAKER_04 21:29

You are absolutely right about the happy birthday singing because I am forever changed with that wild decision that I made to do. But yes, I honestly have to say this film has been the talk of the town for quite some time. There's no denying it. And while I have been waiting for what feels like an eternity, now that it's here, I'm glad to say it will never leave my mind. Now, is it entirely what I expected it to be? I'll be honest and say it wasn't. I didn't leave as extremely horrified as I thought I would, but what I did leave. Feeling was scarred. It's the imagery and real life horror that Osgood Perkins brings to screen that sells it. It's Nicolas Cage and Micah Monroe's performances that, like we mentioned earlier, I think might be the best of the year. The cinematography, the props department, the sound design, all of it just fucking rocks. It's the perfect blend of the paranormal and true crime that I can't look away from. And this is a film that I'm itching to see in theaters again, believe it or not. Mostly because it's a range of all emotions. I'm talking laughter and, you know, unsettlement and a little bit emotional. It's just a wide range of things that you don't expect going into this film at all. You might have just expected to be very fucking scared, and that's fine. So, regardless of whether your expectations are met or not, it is going to leave that mark on you. And the mark it's left on me is definitely a slash.

SPEAKER_02 22:56

I want to start by saying that this movie was marketed extremely well. It was brilliant, in fact, the way it was marketed, especially for these days. And if I'm being honest, I think the movie was overhyped for what it actually was. I think it was overhyped. And I think if you get your hopes up going into the movie, there is a chance that you might get let down to some degree. I don't think that it's a bad movie by any means, but it's certainly not the best horror movie of the year, nor is it the scariest horror movie of the year, all of which I've heard or read leading up to watching this one. So I'm just here to set that record straight. But on top of all that, this is kind of my shit. You know what I mean? It's this like dirty detective serial killer meets, you know, black magic, satanic horror, and and that's cool. You know what I mean? I I like that kind of shit. And I think this movie does a fantastic job keeping you feeling just uncomfortable enough to stay engaged and want to find out exactly what the fuck is going on around here. And the story it tells is definitely deeply disturbing and horrific, no doubt. Honestly, the more I think about it, the more I like it. I just wish that some things were explained a little bit differently and the story was just a tad more flushed out. I think to a degree it may have fallen flat in some of the way that it delivered some of the story as it unfolded. Not that you can't connect the dots, but I think that it could have been explained just a tad better. Overall, I think performance-wise, the acting is superb, the cinematography is great, the soundtrack and the score is phenomenal. I would probably, if we're just doing number-based out of one to ten, I'm probably giving this one a 6.5 or a 7, to be honest with you. So it's a slash, it's just not a very strong slash.

SPEAKER_03 24:53

Well, that's fascinating. Listen, bitches love true crime. And it's me. I'm bitches. I love horror movies. I love learning about serial killers and investigations. But more than that, I love when a film resonates with me on a personal level. And this movie serves as an allegory for something that does cut deeply with me in a really satisfying way. More than that though, Nicolas Cage is unhinged, Micah Monroe is stellar. And despite its few flaws, those two combine their powers to make this an easy, undeniable slash. Now, with that, Long Legs has earned a universal slash. When we return from our break, we'll dive into the spoiler zone territory and unravel the mystery of Long Legs together. If you've already seen this movie, what would you rate it? Let us know. You can join now on the conversation for free over in our Discord server, and you can find the link to sign up in our show notes. If you haven't seen it yet, you can catch it showing in theaters, but if you're listening to this episode, post this movie's theatrical run, you can follow the link in our show notes to see where you can find it streaming right now. We'll see you in a bit.

SPEAKER_01 26:20

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SPEAKER_03 28:21

Welcome back, folks. You are now entering the spoiler zone for Long Legs, which has earned a universal slash. Now we have a lot to unpack here, but before we get into the specifics of our ratings, let's go through all those kills.

SPEAKER_02 28:32

Well, we have a surprising 43 kills in this movie. And I know that that is gonna be very surprising to some because if you don't have the website that Binx provided me, I would have never found this number because you don't see them. You literally don't see them.

SPEAKER_03 28:48

Yeah, they just discuss it, really. They say the number of families over a span of 30 years.

SPEAKER_02 28:55

Right.

SPEAKER_00 28:55

It is a pretty epic kill count, gotta say.

SPEAKER_02 28:58

It is an epic kill count. There are enough kills that we do get to discuss that we did get to at least see to some extent or hear a little bit more in-depth about in this movie. So I am curious which are your favorite kills.

SPEAKER_04 29:14

Alright, so I'm glad also that I provided that website because there are so many mercs in this movie, I can't even decide which one. The mercs are endless, they're abundant.

SPEAKER_02 29:23

Merked out.

SPEAKER_04 29:24

But it is true what you were saying, that you don't necessarily see a lot of them, and that's something that maybe we could have had, and that would have been nice. So if I had to pick one though, out of the many, I'm gonna probably go with the mom, Lee's mom being shot. Fair. Because I will and I quote say, or rather, I put on here, damn, she killed her mom.

SPEAKER_02 29:48

It's true.

SPEAKER_04 29:50

Which is pretty, you know, that's pretty loaded in in the statement in and of itself. Yeah. Also, my friends pointed out, I was just so shocked at the at the time that I didn't pick up on this. One of my friends pointed out that the gunshot wound in her head, the blood looks like an upside-down cross.

SPEAKER_02 30:06

Oh shit. That is wild.

SPEAKER_04 30:08

It's the little things, folks.

SPEAKER_02 30:10

I didn't catch that. Oh, I can't wait to revisit that one.

SPEAKER_03 30:13

That was the Holy Ghost himself.

SPEAKER_02 30:15

Insane.

SPEAKER_04 30:16

Sure was, sure was.

SPEAKER_02 30:17

Listen, she had to do what needed to be done in that, you know, and that takes some something. That takes some courage, some guts, some gumption, some dedication to your job. Like, that's crazy. But she had to, literally, she had to.

SPEAKER_03 30:30

She genuinely did, absolutely. You know, my favorite kill, as great as that was, I'm not even gonna give it to her, and I'm not gonna give it to Long Legs or her mom. My favorite kill was the shocking tone setter of the film, which was Agent Fisk. In the very beginning, we see her as a flashback to a child. We get her as she's canvassing a neighborhood and they're looking for what you might expect would be long legs, but is actually a different suspect altogether. This man just knocks on the door, he's in the middle of talking, boom, gunshot wound, straight in and out of his head. What a wild thing to see on screen. And again, we've talked about this in the past where there's something about horror movies and seeing all the unique and creative ways that death comes to us on screen. We're familiar with the intimacy of knife wounds. We're you're really shocked and awed with some of the things that Terrifier or Saw throws at us, but nothing else hits in a horrific way like gun violence, particularly because of how prevalent it is and how real it is. It's shocking every time you see it.

SPEAKER_02 31:44

It was particularly shocking though, because I don't think anyone, I mean, that was one thing I did not predict he was gonna die right away. Ari predicted that. I did not predict that maybe because I was too caught up in just like processing everything that was happening in the movie at that point. And then literally she's like, Oh, this dude's gonna die right now, and then boom, and I was just like, What? Yo, what just happened? This dude just got shot right in the face.

SPEAKER_04 32:10

But like five minutes into the movie, she already was predicting the whole movie.

SPEAKER_02 32:13

Oh, we were we were picking it apart five minutes in, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:17

I had the same reaction though when I saw it because he didn't believe her and he was way too casual, and she didn't get real close. I'm like, oh, they're setting us up. It's it's what's gonna happen. But there was something about the sound of it. It was like sudden, like a door slamming almost. And that I think was so effective with obviously the speed with which he was shot. But that was a that was a great one. It was like, oh, we're in for it in this movie.

SPEAKER_03 32:42

And what an even greater look at her as a character to be thrown off, to be panicking, to be scared, but to still persevere and push through.

SPEAKER_04 32:51

And that's what she does throughout the film, even at the very end when she's killing her mom. And I feel like that makes her so real. A brand new or relatively brand new FBI agent is not going to be like stone cold Steve Austin, just out here, you know, not giving a damn. You're gonna be scared shitless. I loved that. The heavy breathing as she's going through the house. Like to us, you're probably thinking, girl, shut up, calm down, they're gonna catch you. But it's let's be honest, you're gonna be fucking terrified. And I appreciated that immensely.

SPEAKER_03 33:23

Absolutely, and that's what I think makes her really interesting in comparison to the silence of the lambs. She feels more real and more relatable.

SPEAKER_04 33:33

A hundred percent. The other aspect to this in terms of kills and the sound design for that one reminds me a lot of the sound design of the other agent that the mom kills in the car. That was a double tap situation there. Yeah, literally blew my mind and the mind of the agent, obviously. I was not prepared.

SPEAKER_03 33:50

The fact that she had to go from one side of the car to the other, and like was almost prancing.

SPEAKER_04 33:55

Not only prancing, she blended in with the trees in the background so well. Bro, I was a little shook because I did not even see her. I was searching throughout the windows to see if there was something there, and she was there in plain sight.

SPEAKER_03 34:14

I was searching from the windows to the walls and any nook and cranny in this movie, and she Johnsoned the fuck out of that scene.

SPEAKER_00 34:23

The guy next to me, I think as soon as he realized that she was in the frame, because it's kind of like that moment in signs where you realize there's an alien standing on top of the roof, but it like hit him, he didn't he didn't see it, and then when he finally did, he was just like, Oh, what the hell? And we saw what happened right after that. That was also one of my favorite kills because it was just so over the top in terms of being unnecessary. The single shot, I think we we get it, we expect it. When she went on the other side and like needed to even it out, that was oh, that was an extra level of of unnecessary brutality on her part.

SPEAKER_04 34:58

Speaking of brutality, I want to give a shout out to that cow.

SPEAKER_02 35:02

Oh my god, decapitated, full-on ripped off.

SPEAKER_03 35:06

Oh I felt so terrible because just last week I showed Allie X ahead of Maxine, which features a cow absolutely becoming viscera, like on the side of a row of the road as roadkill, and then we're she's saying next to me and we have a decapitated cow. I was like, bro, they didn't have to go this hard, this poor cow. Why was that necessary? It really wasn't.

SPEAKER_02 35:28

I don't know. I don't even yeah, that's true. Was it necessary to even have that cow be killed? Like, come on.

SPEAKER_04 35:35

I know that what I'm about to say is gonna seem a little hypocritical because I do the animal report. I don't think it was entirely necessary to go that far. I do think that it was necessary because they're on a farm, and what what do they have around them? Animals, and they are obviously being possessed by the devil, and the devil loves to fuck around. So if you're gonna be doing some crazy ass shit, unfortunately the animals are probably gonna lay victim to that.

SPEAKER_03 36:04

Yeah, we went from goat sacrifice to cow sacrifice, and that is nuts.

SPEAKER_02 36:09

Hey, when provisions are provisionless, just find what you can.

SPEAKER_03 36:12

They're really milking that shit.

SPEAKER_00 36:15

There's a big kill here that we haven't discussed, and I'm really curious if Sean's thinking it as well. And it is one of the most, if not the most, graphic kill in the entire movie. And it's Long Lakes himself.

SPEAKER_02 36:28

For sure. Here's the thing is though, you you've almost gotten some kind of immunity to watching that kill because we got such a graphic scene in Talk to Me. You know what I mean? And so when you see this, it's intense, and his acting in this is great, and it's one of the best scenes in the movie, but the kill, yeah, it is pretty gruesome. Just the ability to just bash your face in continuously until you just die in the table is wild. And it was one of the few kills that we do get to see as it unfolds.

SPEAKER_04 37:03

You know what it somewhat reminds me of? It's giving a little bit of Heath Ledger's Joker. Oh, yeah. In terms of the mania and how he's giving this whole performance and this monologue, and will instantly pendulum swing to just violence and brutality. Especially now knowing what the little mannerism that he did after saying Hail Satan, which is winking and giving us a kiss, he then frickin' kills himself. What a guy. What a guy.

SPEAKER_02 37:34

What a guy.

SPEAKER_00 37:34

Was also giving a history of violence. I don't know if you remember that scene with because that nose was gone. That schnauz was done. Yeah, I sure do.

SPEAKER_04 37:42

Damn.

SPEAKER_02 37:43

For sure. I did like the shots that we got of the family as they were found in the house. Being able to see the two people that were in the bed, and as they pull the sheets back on the bed, and they've been what months? They've been sitting there rotting, or a month just sitting there rotting in bed, and you're seeing the maggots crawling all over him. That was one of the more gruesome scenes in the film. Man, that was I I was waiting for it. I'm like, are they gonna show it? Are they gonna show it? And they did, they showed it.

SPEAKER_03 38:14

I am absolutely assuming though that the cat was left roaming in the house and they only put it in a kennel after the FBI agents got there.

SPEAKER_04 38:23

For sure, because that cat, how would it have been alive after a month?

SPEAKER_02 38:27

It's probably snacking.

SPEAKER_04 38:29

It looked pretty full in the face, I'm not gonna front. They do say that cats will eat your bodies. Well, I'm glad.

SPEAKER_02 38:38

Yeah, we we can safely assume that, I think.

SPEAKER_04 38:40

Well, then Peter still wouldn't be happy about it, I can tell you that much. But nonetheless, to imagine that he killed a family that was just there, people thought were on vacation and they were just there the whole time rotting is quite gnarly. I do wish that we had seen some of these murders, even if it was quick snapshots, or I guess like looking back to some of the pictures of the crime scenes, even just to get a little closer bit of a peek as to how gruesome long legs got in some capac well, I guess it wasn't even him all along, but you know what I mean. I just feel like we could have even gotten that, and we didn't necessarily what we did get instead is their marketing campaign and that website. So I guess we get it in some ways, just not in the film itself.

SPEAKER_03 39:26

Okay, I do really appreciate the intensity of this website, and it feels almost as if they thought, you know, we're really going hard on recreating a lot of these assets. Let's put it to some good use. Let's make sure we squeeze every ounce of liquid from these lemons to make lemonade, and I can respect that. But the fact that they styled it as a website you would find in the 90s. I had instant nostalgia when I saw those URLs, those folders, and the tiled background. I was like, holy shit!

SPEAKER_00 39:57

So true.

SPEAKER_03 39:58

Great for the era. Where's my AOL free trial CD?

SPEAKER_00 40:01

There was a lot that was great for the era in this film, though. You know, there's there's a lot to look at here, but the set design in the wardrobe took us back to the 90s. For a moment, you almost couldn't tell what year is this filmed in, right? Because we start out further back. Bill Clinton and give it away. Bill Clinton.

SPEAKER_04 40:17

Bill Clinton is what gave it away.

SPEAKER_00 40:18

That's what did it.

SPEAKER_03 40:20

Famously did not have sexual relations with that woman.

SPEAKER_00 40:23

Oh my gosh. As soon as we saw that picture, I was like, oh, now it all adds up. It makes sense. Now I know. Right? If you think about it though, like, right, so right now it's it's 2024. But if you were to, in a couple of years, make a film about the early 2000s and not show the technology yet, they're pretty similar. Instead of beige, we switched to gray. That's actually grayish, kind of in between. So in reality, 20 years difference without technology being shown, it's hard to tell. When we got that wood paneling on the walls, oh my gosh, it just like sets this tone.

SPEAKER_03 40:55

The wood paneling was really what did it for me because I had wood paneling in my home in the 90s in Texas. And that again scratched a very specific itch. It felt, especially when we saw Bill Clinton's portrait on the wall, like I was just reliving some childhood moments.

SPEAKER_00 41:12

Yeah, that place felt like a government office 100%, but the wardrobe was fantastic. It didn't feel like we're trying to be in the 90s, it just felt like a good setting where you you weren't taken out of the moment. You were just bought in.

SPEAKER_03 41:26

Yeah, which I think Maxine last week also did really well. For me though, where this movie shines is what it does cinematically with those assets with framing it shots. So looking at the composition here, we know in this beginning of this movie, we see a little girl meeting long legs. And it feels apparent to me that that's gonna be a flashback for her, especially because we cut straight to her and we're introducing her character in the very next scene, especially when she gets out in the middle of the street and she's looking. It's queuing to us. But what really puts it over the top is when she's sitting in the car and the camera's perspective and the angle makes her look like a small child in that car, despite the fact that she's a grown woman. She's an FBI agent. And the camera in this movie consistently shifts between not only just these neutral perspectives, but making her look like an aged, powerful, heroic woman to making her feel like a small little girl again, even when we're not in a flashback. So to take that and to see how they play with and isolate her in these moments and just through the lens is absolutely stellar. But even the way they frame the flashbacks, I loved this movie's approach to flashbacks way more than what they did with Maxine last week.

SPEAKER_02 42:46

Definitely, for sure.

SPEAKER_04 42:48

100% agree. Absolutely. And I think going back to what you were saying in terms of making Lee look like a little girl, what a beautiful way to connect to this whole idea that they wanted to maintain this innocence for Satan, right? This sense of like childlike behavior for these little girls to maintain down to the items that they have to, you know, their birthdays and and the innocence about them on their birthdays, all of these things to maintain that down to the way it's delivered on screen with through the cinematography, through their clothing, through the items in the house, like her mom's house, that hoarding is initially you just think, all right, well, I guess Lee's a little unhinged, so Apple probably doesn't far fall far from the tree. So you're thinking that, and then you realize, oh no, it's because this mom has seen some shit, done some shit, impacted by Satan herself, hoarding all of these material items to maintain this sense of, you know, childlike nativity that Lee has, I guess. It's just so interesting. And I gotta hand it to the props department. Because not only with all of those items in that house, it's more so for the dolls themselves. That says American girl, move to the freaking left. You don't know shit. They are so creepy.

SPEAKER_03 44:13

They are. Oh my gosh. When we first see the doll pull from the floorboards, and then we see that doll on the table and its eyelashes.

SPEAKER_02 44:23

Oh, I know.

SPEAKER_03 44:23

It reminds me of my mother's doll, Millie, that has one eye. It's so fucking creepy looking, and it's been her doll for centuries. And by centuries, I mean the majority of her life. She is not anywhere near a hundred years old. But it just feels like it's a part of the family because we all know Millie. But that doll is fucking spooky. I'll see if I can take up a photo of her. I instantly thought of that. There's so much in this movie that just reminds me of my mother, not in a crazy psychotic way by any means, but in a wow, that's relatable.

SPEAKER_02 44:54

Nice. Wow. Listen, I gotta give it up for the score and the soundtrack in this movie because I think what it was able to do added a lot of the terror feeling in this movie, and it's what makes it so good. There's just moments of that are just perfect and they're silent, and you hear just enough of what's actually happening, you know, doors creaking, things like that. You have that kind of high-pitched kind of ambient noise or whatever that's happening when it switches between frames of the camera, and then man, there's something about it that adds to the eeriness and the unsettling feeling of this movie, and I just gotta give it up when it when a soundtrack's able to do something like that.

SPEAKER_00 45:38

They really did a lot of good work here. I'm gonna give them extra credit here. Not my favorite production element, but extra credit. We had an upside down moment with the camera, and I didn't get sick. I didn't feel vertigo, I didn't get dizzy, I didn't feel nothing.

SPEAKER_02 45:50

I was thinking about that.

SPEAKER_03 45:51

Bravo.

SPEAKER_00 45:52

They did a great job. Absolutely bravo.

SPEAKER_03 45:55

That's growth, Matt. We love it.

SPEAKER_00 45:57

I don't think it's me. I think it's them. I just think they nailed it in a way that wasn't sickening. Something about the speeds, something about the direction. I don't know. But you know, good job there.

SPEAKER_04 46:07

I'm gonna give another extra credit, not that it relates to anything of my medical condition, but I wanna shout out Long Legs' makeup and his look, because the interwebs have been talking about how Micah Monroe's heartbeat went up to 175 or something like that, like stayed at 175 during that scene when she faces Long Legs. And I had a laugh because I think I put this in our Discord when you know our listeners were talking about it, and I was like, you know, that's like me on an average day doing nothing. I'm like from 50 to 170 something just standing up. I did check my heart rate and it was fluctuating a bit, wasn't stabilized at 175 when I saw him, but it did spike a little bit because he is one creepy motherfucker. I'll tell you that. He is giving botched surgery immensely. He's gonna remind you of a couple icons, and I won't name them entirely. I'll let y'all do it, but I'm not gonna do it. But he he looks like some celebrities, I'll tell you that much. Oh man.

SPEAKER_03 47:11

He for sure looks like modern celebrities, but he also gives an air, and I'm so sorry to say it banks of Tiny Tim. Oh no. I think it's the hair, it's not the color of the hair, obviously, but there's like a levity and a joy and a whimsy to him as a character that reminds me of Tiny Tim.

SPEAKER_04 47:29

Oh my god, I what I'm gonna start crying. Don't cry.

SPEAKER_00 47:34

Oh no. Oh no, don't think about it too much. That makeup, though, is interesting because you're trying to figure out at the beginning of the movie what he's gonna look like. And they did it so well where they cut off his face and you saw only a flash. Yeah, but then later on we get full frontal, full face going on, and I'm like, did he have plastic surgery? Like, not the not the actor, obviously, but like the character is but he had it back in the 70s. So this is this is weird. There's just something that seems unnatural going on.

SPEAKER_03 48:03

Okay, a couple things here. One, I love that they film him as if he's a horror movie monster. They don't film him like a man, they don't film him like even some of the villains that we get. Think about Halloween. We get glimpses of Michael's mask, and he's lurking in the background and building atmosphere. Jason, we see plenty of, Freddie, we see plenty of. But this man is filmed almost like the creeper in Jeepers Creepers. We see none of him until we see almost too much of him. But the makeup, absolutely now that aesthetic. And then about the construction of his face, it was difficult for me to tell if there was like an intentional surgery or anything like that for this character's past. But some of it also looked to me like, did this man try to reconstruct his own face the way he builds porcelain dolls? Is this some kind of mask? True. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 48:55

Well, you can definitely tell that he's got like powder, white powder on his face, like even his skin tone doesn't match his actual face. The lips are protruding like they're plumpy, you know? It's certain aspects that are hyper influenced by what porcelain dolls tend to look like in the lips and the cheeks. It's true, but it's very much also that monster-esque, and I'm just so freaking glad that you don't ever really see what he looks like in terms of the trailers and the marketing that they've been pouring out. Yes, thank God that was the move, guys. That was the move because when you finally do see him, oh boy, it's weird. It's definitely weird. It is, and I've now recovered from your Tiny Tim thing that you said. Sorry. I if I had my watch, that would have been the spike.

SPEAKER_02 49:46

Speedy recovery.

SPEAKER_04 49:47

Because wow, that set me.

SPEAKER_03 49:49

Why is me saying Tiny Tim scarier than anything else in this movie for you? That's a problem, Binks.

SPEAKER_04 49:55

That's trauma.

unknown 49:56

Yay!

SPEAKER_03 49:57

Filmmakers should aspire to scare Binx more than Tiny Tim just existing scares Binks.

SPEAKER_02 50:03

Listen, while we're still on the subject of long legs as a character, right? And Chris, you explaining a little bit of this scene just a few minutes ago, but my favorite scene is that opening scene flashback because I think there's just so much to love about that scene, and it's truly one of the areas where I felt this movie was the most in the horror realm because you've got this little child looking out, seeing this car, you know, out in the front, going, walking out. It's like obviously a remote area. The sound design, this is those moments where it's just like perfect, it's doing those high-pitched noises as it switches the camera from like one dead tree to the next, and no one's in the car. Then she hears this creepy voice from behind her and she walks up and meets long legs, and we get long legs way earlier than I thought we would get long legs, but it's just so great the way as we're describing this, they choose to film long legs or shoot long legs, and you only see the bottom half of his face at that time, which was interesting. And then you get him going like, Oh, I wish I brought my long legs today, you know, and then just drops down, and you get that perfect just split-second glimpse of his face, and it's just like almost like a strobe-light, like flash still image in your brain that you're like trying to process as it moves on with the rest of the movie, and it was just so well done.

SPEAKER_04 51:29

I'm gonna follow up in terms of favorite scene because I quite honestly can't decide which of Long Legs of Scenes are my favorite scenes. If he's in the scene, it's probably gonna be my favorite. I was taken aback by him. Maybe I will pick, for the sake of the pod, him singing in the car. Because everyone was laughing until they weren't.

SPEAKER_02 51:53

Right.

SPEAKER_04 51:53

When he was singing initially, and then he just loses it screaming. It's just a big hell to the fuck no. And I love it because that's Nick Cage right there.

SPEAKER_03 52:04

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 52:05

That's that whimsy that we're talking about that he is as a person that is referential to, I'm sure, other serial killers and to some extent, how creepy they are, especially serial killers that are preying on children, that kind of thing, right? So, oh boy, you're kind of laughing because you know it's Nick Cage, but then you also realize, like, oh shit, this is Nick Cage, and he's scary.

SPEAKER_03 52:29

It also reminded me of the meme and the gif of Nick Cage and Pedro Pascal turning and looking at each other.

SPEAKER_04 52:37

From the unbearable weight of of Nick Cage, ironically.

SPEAKER_03 52:40

Yeah, it felt like that.

SPEAKER_04 52:42

Such a good movie.

SPEAKER_03 52:43

Man, my favorite scene is also a long leg scene. It is the interrogation scene when she's really pressing in, she's trying to understand what's happening there, and he is giving her so much while giving her nothing at all, until he gives his face all over that damn table. It was so uncomfortable to see him refer to her and think about the day she decided to go into law enforcement and she was 20. And we had a laugh, and she didn't laugh. And this is where everything really clicks into place. I had my suspicions of the mother very early on.

SPEAKER_02 53:20

Me too.

SPEAKER_03 53:21

With a phone call, but then locked in when we first see her because she was giving Carrie White's mother.

SPEAKER_02 53:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 53:28

She was giving villain, and that was a problem.

SPEAKER_02 53:31

Well, if it wasn't that, it's the fucking cockroach crawling under the door, and as she approaches the door, like the mother stops her. Come on, there's just something not right here.

SPEAKER_03 53:40

It's sus. That's fair. Oh my gosh, and then we get the reveal later that he was in her house the whole fucking time. Spooky, hate it, love it.

SPEAKER_02 53:50

The true man downstairs.

SPEAKER_03 53:51

Yeah, Mr. Downstairs.

SPEAKER_02 53:53

Oh.

SPEAKER_04 53:54

I loved that reveal. More so because you're thinking, holy shit, she really has been oblivious to everything that's happened. Satan has literally blocked her mind from everything that could have revealed what was going on this entire time. Think decades.

SPEAKER_03 54:12

So this is exactly why this movie scratches this itch. I'm not gonna go into the extents of my full family history for everyone here involved. But I grew up having one perspective of what my life was, and then when I was 18 years old, I finally learned the truth. I learned something that my entire family knew, except for me, and it was about my father and a separate family and all of that. I learned the secrets that had been kept and everything that was happening right in front of me. But I was such a small child, and my mother and my father and my siblings made this conscious decision because looking at the way this news impacted my siblings, they knew they didn't want that for me. They wanted me to be able to grow up without the burden of that knowledge. So this relatability here, right? We have Lee's mom trying to protect her. Mothers, famously in cinema, will go so far to protect the ones they love, even to the point of doing things that are not really personally aligned with their own values. Her mother appears to be very faithful in her convictions and in her spirituality, but she has given up so much to protect and save her little girl. Her mother was bound and about to be murdered in a moment of desperation, she gave that up. And I think about the things that my mom dealt with and the pain that she has lived through and the things that she has sacrificed to give my siblings and I a better life. And just thinking about what it means to keep a secret, but then also to be living in the dark. For me, it was 18 years. For Lee, it's her whole fucking life from when she was nine, and that's just a crazy fucking feeling.

SPEAKER_04 55:45

And I think also even from the mother's perspective, when she makes that comment about the prayers never really being answered, anyways, think of all of those earlier years where she was probably praying for someone to save her, for God to save her, for them to get out of this bind somehow, for things to stop. But only thing that keeps happening are these murders, right? The only thing that keeps happening is obviously Satan being real in her face, right? She doesn't see God, she only sees Satan and what he's doing. So ultimately it just becomes this complete shift. And I do love that because I think what we tend to find when we see mothers in cinema is that, yeah, they'll do anything for their children, but then towards the very end of the film, you know, they're like gonna fight back with their daughter or their child against this evil, but no, she is the evil.

SPEAKER_03 56:37

She becomes it. That's where it's really interesting because we have Mike Monroe as Lee, who has outgrown that. There's such a disconnect between her as the daughter and her mother within their own relationship. There's distance there, there's pain there. There's a mother who doesn't want to get rid of memories. There's a mother who's hoarding perhaps as a way to control what's happening around her. But when you see those flashbacks, she wasn't a hoarder. She was very neat, she was very collected, she was very together. And I'm reading way too much into this movie because of my own personal experiences, and I get that, I respect it. But holy fucking shit, this movie made me feel some things.

SPEAKER_00 57:14

They did some great work with characters here. I really, my favorite scenes, pretty much all of them, were when we got to know Lee Harker more as a person, and not necessarily her actions, but how she thinks, like how she's computing, because we see the effects of her computing when we talk about numbers or when she uses her intuition. But I think when we see her facial expressions in social situations, it just tells us so much. I love when she got to meet the Carters and got to be in the room with Aiden Carter's daughter. And to see that exchange and to see them one, they're pretty similar, which is interesting. And that was a lot of fun. But just to like see how awkward she was in that type of family situation and to see her connecting with the daughter was awesome. But every scene where we're getting to know just like how she thinks about the world and how she's working through the case, having everything laid out, wakes up immediately right back into work mode. I loved it. You know, again, I love when we don't have to like have too much exposition or too much dialogue, we just get to see it happen. And and I love those scenes, and it really gave us a lot about who uh Lee is.

SPEAKER_02 58:20

Yeah, and I think, man, even just looking at Lee Harker as a character, I feel like it was played with such amazing emotion by Micah Monroe. It's just so crazy the amount of what you can get out of someone's just facial expressions. You know what I mean? Like it's not just lines, it's not just acting out in a thing, it's just you're seeing a face and your eyes and like the breathing, and it's just so much emotion that's being portrayed to the character that I thought was amazingly well done.

SPEAKER_03 58:53

Absolutely, and that's part of why my favorite scene of the interrogation scene is my favorite. It's not even just him as long legs, it's her. It's her swallowing her emotion, her discomfort. It's seeing the single tear rolling down her cheek as he is revealing more, and there is something being unearthed for her, and she's trying through all these years of trauma to detach from that, to remain detached from that. Micah Monroe has been in so many great movies, but I've never seen a performance from her like the one she gave in this one.

SPEAKER_00 59:28

Yeah, truly, truly stellar here, and her character is so interesting because you know, she's our protagonist and you want to you want to root for her, but she's also playing a similar role to other characters we've seen in other FBI serial killer dramas or cop dramas or whatever they are, where you want her to solve the mystery, but you also want the mystery to remain slightly out of reach because it keeps the thing going. But it's it's this back and forth of like, figure it out, figure it out, figure it out. I want to see you do it, but at the same time, that kind of ruins it a little bit. So you want it like you want to stretch it out just enough to where it's satisfying when she finally does. And I think by her portrayal of her emotions throughout the process, that single tier you mentioned, that thing that's being unearthed that we don't know what it is yet, but we find out at the end was hidden there all along. It's just you can feel that there's something deep within her from the very beginning of the movie.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:18

Yeah, but here's the other aspect to all of this. The reality is that she played a Capricorn perfectly. She's really fucking good at her job. She reads receipts, she solves puzzles, she puts some shit together, she's 20 steps ahead of everybody else, and she got some feelings in there that are buried, and she will contend with them when they come out, and it will be triggered in a very inopportune moment, but they're there, and she will confront it, and she'll have to do some difficult shit. That's a Capricorn Queen.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:48

I uh approve this message completely. A thousand percent she is true, like without a doubt. I will say Micah Monroe does this thing where she can basically tap into her emotions very subtly with her facial expressions. She delivers such a monotone voice in this particular film. But when we think of It Follows and we think of The Watcher, both films that I've seen her in that I think are incredible performances, obviously, it's a little bit of that still, but more profound in this one. I think we're finally seeing Micah Monroe in her like full form. I'm super excited to see where she goes from here, especially with It Follows 2 and all of that, because this was unsettling, even her performance is unsettling. I think we talk a lot about how Nicolas Cage is a freaky motherfucker, but Lee Harker, okay, Micah Monroe playing Lee Harker is very eerie because you're just like staring at her, and she's very monotone throughout the way she responds to certain questions. She's precise with the things that she says, and you're like, what's wrong with her? There's something there's something here. What is it? And you're just not sure. And you see that similar delivery, what we now know being the obviously, whether it be the dolls or Satan impacting both Lee and Carrie Ann. So Kiernan Shipka is another icon that can be so frickin' weird and eerie and monotone. And Osgood Perkins loves Kiernan Shipka. It's she's the main character in his previous film, Blackcoat's Daughter, and she is so unsettling and weird and curious, but also a little bit bitchy in this movie, too. It's very odd, and I loved that scene with both of them. What we now know being two people that have been impacted by this whole shit show going toe-to-toe. We've got Lee trying to get answers, and Carrie Ann basically being in love with long legs and Satan himself, and saying, You don't even know. You are actually also a part of this whole thing, but it's clearly not coming out of you. So here's what this is gonna be. Okay, I'm gonna win, and I'll kill you right here if he wants me to.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:05

Yeah, but can we also just acknowledge that there was such a perfect moment in this movie for it's all coming back, it's all coming back to me now.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:16

Could you imagine Nicolas Cage singing that? Long legs singing that?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:20

Maybe the dolls definitely introduce a different type of dynamic, you know what I mean? So just trying to think as we learn a little bit more of this story as the film progresses, now thinking back to like how some of these characters were portrayed before we got that information, you know, what exactly does this doll have over Lee? And and what is the difference in dynamic of her character before and after that doll is shot in the head, you know, and that brain is destroyed, if you will. So that I think is an interesting dynamic that I wish we were able to learn a little bit more about, but didn't. Interesting enough, but I do want to shout out the man, the myth, the legend, Nicolas Cage in this movie because you know, he did do a terrific job as well. And the more that you kind of look into his inspiration and things for this film being inspired by his own mother, which is an interesting story because she battled with mental illness and was institutionalized throughout his childhood, is very interesting. And him also channeling some different, like really obscure films like Juliet of the Spirits and trying to create this almost like androgynous character is very interesting. And I haven't watched that movie, but I looked a little bit about that movie up, and okay, okay, it definitely looks interesting. But man, Nicolas Cage just really puts in that that work and he just delivers this character that, as weird and demented, and deranged and strange as it was, I kind of want to see more of it.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:00

Okay, I want it I want to talk about this character so badly because this is where part of my I'd say basically my only real disappointment comes from in this film, and that is that man delivered such a stellar performance, right? As this just absolutely out there satanic serial killer, whatever, that we didn't even need the supernatural for this film to be what it could have been, because his personality, his effect on people would have been enough, I think, to to really send it. You know, there was there was no need to for Satan to actually be real. Leave it kind of out there, maybe it was. You can you can still play it that way because his performance was good enough to get past any ambiguity.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:46

100%. This is the thing that I struggle with with the third act of this film. Long legs as a cult leader, long legs as an influencer, long legs as a mastermind and manipulative thinker. Sure. I 100% am here for that. But the mystery of the metal ball, and then all of a sudden there's black shit coming out of it when she passes out when that doll is destroyed. Yeah. It's too much. It's too much and it loses itself there. Yeah. And I can appreciate that, like every horror movie, there is a dad killing his family or is responsible for the downfall. And now this gives some mystical vapors that now explains why the dads always go crazy. Sure, but also no, didn't need it. I almost dislike that they leaned back into the satanic of it all.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:35

So here's what I'll argue. I feel like this film actually leaves a little bit of ambiguity at the end. Because ultimately, at the end of the day, you don't actually know if Satan is real real. It is probably the sounds that are coming and emanating from the ball. Like, hear me out. Obviously, certain vibrations, sound vibrations can have an impact on you, make you feel unsettled. The doctor himself, when he was looking at this doll, said that he when he heard the sounds and made him think of his, what was it, his ex-wife or something like that? It can just bring out whatever feelings, emotions, or whatever, right? It can just bring something out of you. That's kind of where I was leaning towards. And I only say that because Osgood Perkins loves a good, is this real or is this not? Is this Satan or is this not? Yeah. Because at the end of the day, let's look again at real life. There are a ton of serial killers that have said that they have done things because they were possessed by demons or they were possessed by Satan or Satan told them so. And ultimately, what we do know is that they're probably not well and just saying that. But do we actually know if they're really possessed by Satan or not? We actually don't. So that that kind of ambiguity is what is what he loves to explore. I know it's crazy, but I'm just saying it how it is. We don't actually know these things, goes.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:13

We don't I can appreciate some layer of ambiguity, but there's also an amount of serial killers who make up the satanic possession to get themselves a plea deal. You know what I mean? So there's that element of it, right? But it's the fact that he then leans into saying, Hail Satan! And then she also says, Hail Satan. It's just two on the nose between the black vapors emanating from the ball, even though there's nothing inside the ball ever. They cut the ball open, there's nothing inside of it. They would have said if there's black vapors in it, right? So there's something mystical or magical about this within the m the context of the movie. And then the two antagonists are literally out here saying, Hail Satan. I feel like it maybe he intends for it to be more ambiguous and it actually comes across, and that's a problem.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:58

Yeah. But this also then, I would say that if you remove that element, this is giving more thriller than horror.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:07

Well, see, that's the thing, is this movie definitely teeters this fine line between thriller and horror. You know what I mean? As it is to your point. Uh, and it there is some ambiguity to the end of the movie, too. Like, I get it, the whole the whole doll thing. Like, I don't know exactly because they don't do a good enough job explaining exactly what it does. Is you don't know what kind of grasp this doll that wasn't able to be shot in the head has on both this child and maybe even Lee. We don't know because all we see is Lee firing a gun that doesn't fire, and they do leave, but do we now know that Long Legs or the Devil, whatever, now is back like with some kind of control over Lee Harker or andor this girl?

SPEAKER_03 1:09:57

A couple other notes here. It's the sudden flip of Ruby's dad, Agent Carter, and turning into this whole murder scene. There's that whole aspect of it again that also blends itself and lends itself very swiftly and quickly into the supernatural. But then the one area of ambiguity that I did feel, and this is where maybe I wouldn't have liked it if this movie did this. But there was a point where she's pulling the trigger and then gun's not firing at her and Allie, and I was like, well, do we think this is actually happening or is this a hallucination? And she's been manipulated into she thinks she's saving this girl, but instead she's about to put a bullet into this girl's head.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:37

Yeah, you see, we don't know. That's it's interesting.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:41

I think it actually happened. Like, I think she actually did save the girl, and that's why we linger on her, and there's a whole all that trauma. But if they had given us some solid evidence that it was a hallucination and now she is her mother, the generational trauma never ends.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:57

Well, I think the whole scene where the mom shoots her doll in the head and says that you're free, is that she is free, period. Now, as for Ruby, her doll, we don't know if it got broken or not, so my Ruby girl is probably still gonna be haunted to some degree by Satan himself.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:21

What's also interesting to me though, there's a woman who's credited as playing an adult Ruby Carter. And I don't recall ever seeing Ruby Carter as an adult in this film.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:31

No. That's that's interesting.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:34

That is super interesting. Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:36

But think about your idea on the sphere of Banks. They could have given us more ambiguity or more feasibility here by just having them act slightly differently. They move into this mode where they're suddenly angry and violent and whatever. Lengthen that. Show them slowly getting more and more and more and more agitated. And and you could buy that something is physically happening to them because of the presence of this doll. I could get into it, but I think it was so quick. And of course, the black smoke, the black smoke ruined it. Sure. You know, that's what set it and said this is supernatural, 100% a supernatural thing. There's a piece of whatever in these spheres. But if we didn't get that, then we could explain everything that's going on here by the fact that these parents suddenly and and you know, they get more agitated and agitated until they become violent and take each other out or whatever, right? And the kid witnesses all of that, experiences trauma, and locks that shit away. And that's how it worked for Lee. That's how it's gonna work for Ruby. So I think there was a way out of being too concrete about the answer, but I just think Nick Cage's performance was worth making it all about the character influencing others. They just didn't need to lean into a supernatural. Maybe that's what they what they wanted, right? Was we really want to have it be supernatural and have it be the influence of the man downstairs. I just don't think he needed to. I just think it was enough all on its own that you could buy into that whole charismatic leader thing. Because I was into it. I think that's why a lot of times we're into these kind of things. They mention Manson in the film, it's because it's perplexing to us. We would never be swayed by this, or would you? You just don't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:13

Yeah, that's a good point. I mean, I don't know one way or another which way would be best. I do know that I do feel like the worst part is along those same lines because I just, if you're gonna introduce something like that, give me a little bit more fucking information on it because right now it's not processing well in my mind, and now I kind of don't want it.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:34

Yeah. They showed us, you know, the tall shadows, disappearing shadows of Lucifer throughout the film. Right. Show us when to finish this thing off, you know. But honestly, that actually wasn't the worst part of the movie to me. Because I understood why they did it. I just kind of wish they hadn't. The worst part of the movie to me was a small one. I just really hate maggots. Fair.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:54

They were quite nasty. That's fair. I'd say the worst part for me, aside from the hype in general and it being a little too much for what we got. I'm I it doesn't even seem fair to say that that's the worst part, though, because it was still a great movie. I loved it. And all this that we just finished discussing makes me realize that this is why I'm the paranormal paramour, because everything that we've talked about in the gripes have to do with supernatural and paranormal, and I'm the one here defending it to all hell. So that's fine. That being said, worst part. I would say is the lack of gore a bit, because I do think that we're talking a ton of fucking kills. Would have been nice to see a little bit more, whether it be in crime scene photos, whether it be in flashbacks or something to that effect. Not too much because I think it'll oversensationalize serial killers and maybe just pivot the whole point altogether, which was exploring more of the satanic and the occult aspect of this, but just a little bit more because damn, it seemed brutal. It seemed hella brutal. I'll give you a perfect example. Even the wife at the very end going into the kitchen, a quick moment for us to see what he's doing, I guess. Something that doesn't take a lot of effort would have been really nice to see.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:07

Yeah, the satanic connection remains the worst part of the movie for me. But what you're talking about with exploring the brutality for the rest of the body count throughout the film and leading up to the film, I think that's a really interesting sweet spot to examine. And maybe not for Anna Carter, because when he goes in clean and comes out, and he even says you're still gonna be in the kitchen, and he comes out completely covered in blood, I'm okay with that being left to my imagination. But what I do want to do is review the birthday murders website that you found, and we're gonna have a link down in our show notes as well. I want to really explore every single story of each family and look at the photos, look at the brutality there, and then revisit this movie with that context, treating it as if it's a true crime scenario to see if that colors my perspective anymore, to consider do I really want that level of gore? Do I feel satiated by the photos and the evidence that we got?

SPEAKER_02 1:16:05

Just knowing what I know about how the story unravels, I think just watching it back and kind of looking at it from a different lens would be interesting. So it's definitely worth a rewatch in my book.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:18

Oh, yeah. This kind of thing is right up, I think, most of our alleys these days, where we're really into true crime. I mean, I'm not super into it, but I like the concept of it and I love all those movies that we mentioned earlier. You know, what comes to mind right now is like taking lives. I could I could watch that once every five years or so. You know, I I could definitely watch Silence of the Lambs more often. And so I think this is not quite up there because it is a bit more extreme than all those films, but I could definitely watch this again.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:43

I will for sure be watching this again. So much so that in between our break for recording, I have already made plans to see it in a few days.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:53

Nice.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:54

That's how committed I am to re-watching this, and it's because I think that there really is some serious value in re-watching, even if it's for the technical aspects of things, the little Easter eggs, the little motifs that are left in the scene. I just think that Osgood Perkins is really good at doing that. And I've already watched Black Coast Star, I've mentioned it multiple times throughout this episode. Gretel and Hansel's another one that he did that was really good too. So I'm just I'm digging his vibe. I'm here for more Osgood Perkins. He's got another big movie coming out, The Monkey from Stephen King, that's picked up by Monkey Paw Productions. I think I'm an Osgood Perkins baddie. I think that's what it is.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:35

Especially now that you know he's related to Anthony Perkins.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:38

Oh, even more so now.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:40

Well, we can't wait to see what's in store for him, but for now, there you have it, folks. Long legs from 2024 has earned a universal slosh. Now we've certainly had a robust discussion here, but the conversation about this movie and how unhinged Nicolas Cage is does not end here by any means.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:57

If you've enjoyed listening to this episode and hearing us talk about Nicolas Cage and its unhinged nature, definitely leave us a five-star review wherever you get your podcasts.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:06

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SPEAKER_03 1:18:22

We'll see you next time, folks. And remember, he worships the devil, but you're allowed to do that in the United States.