349: I Saw the TV Glow (2024)

SPEAKER_07 0:04

Get your own shit together, Moon Man.

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Greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hacker Slash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. I like girls. You know that, right? If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack, a total joke, a waste of time, or a slash.

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Totally killer, pun intended.

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We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, we're rating these movies with a perspective we've gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast. This week I'm joined by the super fly space guy Mac.

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It was moving too fast.

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The classic horror connoisseur Sean.

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I forced my mouth to produce any saliva I could muster just to have something to drink.

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The Paranormal Paramour Binx.

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Hey Bozo, Estee Lauder called, they have a few suggestions about this whole look you're going for.

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And the Scream Queen Paris. Isn't that a show for girls? This week we're checking out a 2024 horror drama surrounding two teenagers and their shared love of a supernatural TV show that gets mysteriously cancelled.

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And if you're a patron or Apple Podcast subscriber, you'll also get to hear our B-side at the end of this episode where we talk about all the TV shows we used to love growing up, as well as some that just didn't hold up all these years later.

SPEAKER_05 1:28

But for this week's film, eight years after making waves with their debut film, We're All Going to the World's Fair, Jane Schoenbrunn took on a new project amid personal transformation. Schoenbrunn began writing the script just three months into hormone replacement therapy, using the process as a way to navigate through a period of overwhelming change. The story was designed to resonate without focusing explicitly on transition or coming out, but instead crafted a narrative that serves as an allegory for the egg crack and the journey of self-discovery. This week we're talking about I saw the TV glow. What were you all expecting going into this?

SPEAKER_02 2:06

I will say I actually didn't know a whole lot about this film going into it. I was excited for the film just by the sheer fact that the title looked really cool. The title really caught my attention. It intrigued me right away. But then I also read the synopsis and even the trailer, I guess. I'm just kind of expecting to see some wild movie about getting sucked into a TV show or some kind of like hypnotism type psychological horror flick is really what I was expecting going into it. I just know it looked really cool and it felt like it was gonna be fucking trippy and weird.

SPEAKER_00 2:41

Like the colors that you see in any of the images, whether it's uh marketing material or the trailer. I didn't really watch the trailer, so I also didn't have a good idea of what to expect, but I for some reason it was giving me nostalgia. Like I just knew that something it was gonna pull in the nostalgia strings really strongly, and it felt a little aimed at a younger audience, just based on the little bit of material that I was able to find.

SPEAKER_04 3:04

Absolutely. I saw the trailer when I was in the theater once, and my instant reaction was, oh, this is some type of Gen Z film, which I'm not trying to say that that's a negative thing, right? But I in the sense that some of the dialogue, the ambiance was giving, this is not for me, this is not intended for my age range or my general vibe and interest. I didn't even know that it was a horror film until I eventually did see it in the theater. And my expectations were very much changed after the fact. So I feel like going into it, I was expecting, I'm gonna hate this film and it's gonna be such a bore, especially having gone to the theater afterwards and deciding to go see it with a few of my friends.

SPEAKER_07 3:43

Interesting that you saw it in theaters, Binks. I wish I had as well, but I simply did not make it in time. I think I saw the trailer for this in the beginning of a couple different horror movies, and I remember being like, oh, that looks vaguely interesting. And then I read online and saw videos that it was like, hey, it's actually very trans. This movie's trans, this movie's trans. And I was like, oh, okay, fine, I'll bump it up on my list. Still didn't make it to the theater, but I did watch it streaming with some friends, and then I actually rewatched it again today. But as far as expectations, I was just kind of like, okay, maybe the mumble core type of slow burn psychological horror movie about the 90s TV show is the thing that that's the thing that hooked me and made me interested when I saw like the Pink O'Pake clips in the trailer. I was like, okay, that's intriguing. I want to see what that is.

SPEAKER_05 4:21

You know, interestingly enough, I don't recall ever seeing a trailer for this movie. And I actually had almost, I think, the inverse experience of you, Binks, where you went into it not really realizing it was a horror movie fully until you watched it. I expected this to be a horror movie, then heard from based on some audience reactions that it wasn't really giving horror. So I actually dropped it down on my list thinking, okay, well, I'll get to it when I get to it. It sounds like an emotional, uh, an emotional toll, a harrowing experience. And while I would respect it, I don't know if I need that energy right now in my life. But I do remember seeing the artwork for the film, and that is what intrigued me. That's what gave me this hope. That's what I'm saying. Almost like what the way I felt about Fear Street coming out. This is very different stylistically, but Fear Street captured the nostalgia of the 90s, and it's such a period piece in each entry of that trilogy that looking at the artwork for this, I was like, oh, okay, this feels intriguing. I want to believe in this movie because of how much I'm really enjoying the marketing material and the aesthetic. Now, going into this though, and actually experiencing this one, ooh, what a time. This is one of those movies, and we talk about this with horror. What is horror? What is not horror? This would be in the collection of films that gets into the I think fringe horror discussion. It is horror from a certain perspective. And while it can certainly feel horrific to me, it's certainly not something that I think a lot of people would go into this in the movie theater and think, oh yeah, I just watched a horror movie.

SPEAKER_02 6:00

Yeah, that's super true. I think it's gonna hit different for different people. I think you mentioned, you know, the nostalgic part of it, and I think this film is very nostalgic for sure. I think it's nostalgic in a different way than a lot of other movies are nostalgic. I think the movie just has a nostalgic feel, but it's not really out there trying to like really put nineties in your face. I think you're just submersed in something that makes you feel like it's really 90s, but you can't really put your finger on it. I can imagine that this movie is going to possibly trigger you if you've experienced any kind of, I don't know, depression. It could be child abuse, death, abandonment, self-identity, all of that, and probably more. Like just to put that out there before you get into the film, I think that could definitely hit you in that way if it makes you reflect on maybe something that you experienced growing up. But I also think awkwardness is a big feeling in this movie. And I don't say awkwardness in a bad way, but rather that you share this feeling of not fitting in with these characters, and that's a really interesting feeling to get from a film.

SPEAKER_00 7:08

It's so interesting to me that we have many of us at least have used the word nostalgia to describe parts of this film because nostalgia was originally thought of as a type of melancholy, which is featured very heavily in this film. So that I think it's very deliberate. I think the characters here reflect on the past that they experience with nostalgia, but in a very unique way. I think while watching this, it's this is a deep film, right? We've talked about films in the past that tried to be deep when they didn't need to be deep or that people thought were deep when they weren't actually as deep, etc. But this is something that should really cut you deeply. This is pure art, I think, on film when you're watching it, and I could easily see this being adapted to stage. The monologues here really lend themselves to the stage. And I think I could see this happening with some really good stage productions here.

SPEAKER_05 7:56

Is it because it's so gay and we're all theater kids?

SPEAKER_00 8:01

Definitely not where I was headed with it.

SPEAKER_05 8:03

It can't be where you were headed with it, but I can say it.

SPEAKER_04 8:07

No, but it is true. I think it's a film that you have to surrender yourself to what you're going to be feeling because that's what's going to navigate you through the film. And although it is slow in pace, it has to be in some ways because there's an immense amount of dread and curiosity and sadness throughout the film that only kicks into high gear when you start to realize what's happening, when you hear the main character's voice, when you start to piece together this puzzle. And then on top of that, there are moments of levity here and there, like the awkward moments that we can all relate to, interactions where you've probably been through the drive-thru and you're like screaming at the thing because they can't hear you. It's just little moments like that that make you laugh, but still are rooted in this idea of feeling uncomfortable and feeling awkward and not feeling quite right. And that's how I feel through when I watch this film. Even the second time around, I was describing to one of my close friends who initially had told me to see this film and convinced me to go to the theater. I was telling him that it's interesting how even on the second time around, I know what this is going to make me feel, and I still feel it, maybe just a little bit less because I'm bracing myself for impact, but it's still effective in how profound it makes me reflect up inward, right? So I will commend it for that.

SPEAKER_07 9:23

Thanks. I kind of love that because I had the opposite experience. My first watch, I don't think it impacted me the way that it had hoped to, because I was expecting horror the whole time. I was like waiting for the horror and I was kind of let down. That's definitely something that I felt the first time. I was a little bit disappointed. But having known that, I was like, okay, now that I know that the thing that I'm wanting out of this movie is never gonna come and it's just gonna do the thing that it's gonna do. Let me watch it again to see if I can remove that filter and see if it actually makes me feel the things it wants me to feel. And it kind of did. I felt them. I felt them. I think this movie articulates very like nuanced emotions and experiences in a very specific and effective way. And I found that to be pretty impressive.

SPEAKER_05 10:04

I can agree with that. I think the way that I would describe this movie is cathartic. I think that's really where it lends itself for me. Being to talk about the things that you feel in this movie, even being able to feel them when bracing for it. I think there is this condition of where I am in my life and with my own mental health where I think I'm just a little bit numb to it. Maybe I'm just not as good soil to be as emotionally impacted by this movie. But instead of it feeling truly like I'm gonna cry in this moment, and I think there's the opportunity for it. I absolutely do. But instead of making me cry, I think it made me feel like, oh, I wish I had this when I was younger. And that's really what it comes down to for me. This movie captures the horror of being alone in a way that you know, I think about where I was like in the 90s and in the early 2000s and worst time of my life, but that's what this movie captures for me. It captures the horrors of I think parts of my own experience in life, and I was surprised by that, but I was also surprised that it did it with a deaf hand, so it was almost like a hey, I got you, we experienced these things together, and not a hey, remember that fucking miserable time in your life? Let's fucking cry about it, bitch. It didn't stick the knife in too hard for me.

SPEAKER_02 11:28

Yeah, that's super interesting. I was actually extremely surprised by how much meaning and symbolism this movie had. I was not prepared for it, and it wasn't something I was expecting, obviously, as I described what I was expecting going into this film, because it was completely different than what I was expecting. And, you know, I said, yeah, nostalgic, yes, but not in the ways you would normally feel nostalgic. This movie felt different, and it was extremely effective at evoking a feeling of almost matching the characters, as I mentioned before, and all of the feelings that you're all sharing, like it was just so effective at evoking that out of you. But I also think that there were some minor moments or some minor touches in the film, like effect-wise, maybe I guess you could say, like the handwriting on the screen and things like that, that I feel like were a little bit distracting and hard to follow at times. Maybe that's just me. I'm not a fast reader on screen or something, or maybe there was just all over the place. But that was one thing that stood out to me that I just didn't really I didn't really like.

SPEAKER_07 12:32

Very interesting there, Sean. I had literally had to pause to read the stuff that we got on the screen. So you're not a slow reader, I wouldn't say. I'm a pretty fast reader. And it was kind of a lot. It just was kind of overwhelmed with information, but I think that was part of it too, is like, oh, and then the months passed and I watched all the episodes. But as far as like symbolism and stuff goes, I definitely knew what we were in for when we got like a 45-second clip of one of our main characters underneath a parachute that's just the trans flag colors. Like when that was like within the first five minutes, I was like, okay, it's gonna be one of these. Sure. And by that I mean it was a snooze, which I found to be a little bit disappointing. I fell asleep a couple times, which is also part of the reason I rewatched it. Again, I caught my head nodding during one specific scene, and that's sort of just not my tea, you know. The kinds of movies that are like really slow, low dialogue, maybe like five pages of dialogue total in this movie. It's like three monologues. It all disappointed me in that way. And it was a surprise because I was like, oh, this will be a fun trans horror movie.

SPEAKER_04 13:29

That's the thing. I think it's so arthouse that you really have to be prepared adequately for that, right? Because if you're expecting monsters and horror, and you may even hear parallels to Buffy and think this is gonna be action-packed, but then you go in and you hear this like shoegazy music and it's very, you know, somber. It just makes you feel very mellowed. And I think for me, what surprised me the most is okay, I was very wrong to start off that this is not a Gen Z film whatsoever. I was so fucking wrong about that. But I think it's more so that pendulum swing of emotions and how I felt. Like I was expecting, you know, action-packed and my heart to be racing, but I was so calm to the point where I was starting to get real sad. And I think in general, when we talk about this film, and even at the beginning of this episode, how Sean Brynn is obviously using it as an allegory for being transgendered. I think it's important to say that also I don't want this film to get written off as just that either. I think that what surprised me the most is that there's so many things that I even I could relate to, even though I'm not a part of the LGBTQIA community, right? And I could empathize with the experience, but I could also understand what it's like to kind of struggle with identity, to feel othered, to feel like I'm repressing who I really am. And I thought that was really cool that I'm spending this whole time not only surprised by how wrong I was in terms of how I should be feeling, but also how I could still empathize with the main characters and the community that's being represented, but also feel like I can gain something from what's being shown to me as well.

SPEAKER_00 15:11

It's got kind of a twofold effect. If you don't know what to expect going to this film, and you're thinking, kind of like Sean and I had the same thought that maybe we're gonna get one of these, you know, 90s retro nostalgia kind of things where we are like fighting a TV monster or something, right? You're gonna be hit by the reality that that's not what this is. And at first you're gonna be like, oh, that's kind of a bummer. But then the pleasant surprise is that the film, even though in some cases it doesn't say much, it's incredibly articulate with dealing with characters' emotions, emotions that are typically very hard to describe. There is a scene in which, I mean, early in the film, in which uh our main character describes a feeling that most people don't know how to describe, and it's honestly like the central conceit of the film, and it was just like right there at the beginning for us to latch on to, and it was so effective that it tied into the end of the film. And it's like here it is, plain on display for everybody to see. And I think that idea, this emotion that I don't want to give it away, obviously, but that emotion that's described applies to so many different people and so many different struggles that people have to go through. This is a struggle that many people don't understand, perhaps, but I think it's it was able to like put to words a feeling that people can't put to words, and that was such a pleasant surprise to see. Like, I only need one or two sentences to completely convey something from my brain to your brain, and you just get it. And it was really good at that.

SPEAKER_05 16:37

Yeah, you know, you mentioned the word struggle a lot here, and I want to share that something that I think I struggle with is generally art house films. Like it's not my bag, not my cup of tea. And when you get a movie like this, it's such a tough mix for me. Harris, you talked about being underwhelmed the first time you saw this movie. I wouldn't say that for me personally. I wouldn't say that I was underwhelmed, but it certainly teeters on the edge of I wish I could hear things a little bit more clearly to really follow this and be intrigued by it instead of just solely resonating on an emotional level because this is a horror drama with honestly, I would say like a 98% emphasis on drama. Yeah. And that's, I think, a bit of a disappointment for me. I think there are some cool things that we probably could have done or done slightly differently to just balance out and soften the blow a little bit with the horror. I know we were having a great discussion here about how we're all able to feel things no matter what our own gender identity is, what our own experience is, and that's great. But I do wish it was a little bit more horror because I also struggle with the fact that I didn't feel fear a single fucking time in this movie. The horror of it, it's horrific. But what it's doing is taking all the fears I've had my entire life and just saying, Yeah, these are your fears. We feel them too, which I get, and again, it's a great fucking movie, but I wish it was just a little bit more horror.

SPEAKER_04 18:11

Yeah. I could agree with that. I think that there's a couple instances where you see some practical effects and some monsters and things like that that are a part of the pink opaque show that we could have seen a lot more of. So there is some opportunity for this to actually really lean into horror and not lose the arthouse of it all as well.

SPEAKER_02 18:31

I agree with you. I think it could have leaned into those areas a little bit more and given us more of the horror or even the horror visuals and stuff. It's definitely not your traditional horror movie. We'll call it that, right? This is a film that provokes you to think deeper, not just take it at face value, but really look beneath the surface. I think this is a movie that is depicting, to your point, Chris, like the fear of maybe not knowing, the fear of understanding or maybe accepting your self-identity, a fear of something as little as allowing yourself to like something that the societal norm tells you you shouldn't like, or as big as gender identity.

SPEAKER_00 19:10

I'm just gonna say it wasn't a scary film. Obviously, what the characters are going through is frightening, but I didn't have a lot of tension. There was a couple moments where you're worried for their well-being. A couple moments, right? I I think that's obviously on purpose because there there were situations where we have to be worried for their well-being. But there didn't seem to be super high stakes physically. And so I think, like you said, there's not a lot of action here. And so, sure, psychologically, we've talked about psychological horrors in the past, and that can be effective here, but it does make it a bit of a sleepy watch because you're not really super worried at any point that something crazy physically is going to happen to the characters.

SPEAKER_07 19:51

Toats McGoats Mac. This movie scared me almost a little bit one time, and even on the second watch, I was like, Yeah, still pretty creepy, very trippy, very I don't like it. But yeah, I think the the fear of this movie just comes in the most general sense, like unfulfilled potential, what that could mean in somebody's life. And I'm like, I don't know, bold of you to call this horror. We can say it, pretty bold. Earlier, Chris, you were very kind with the way you worded it. You said it's a very specific type of fringe horror where it's like I can see how you could make an argument, a long argument, nonetheless, but an argument to say that this is technically horror, because it's a type of horror, a type of horror that I've experienced, but I wouldn't qualify it as horror in my book. But here we are, so we will judge it nonetheless. It's giving outskirts. It's giving outskirts of horror. It's giving outskirts. Yeah. It's giving outlier.

SPEAKER_02 20:43

I mean, horror or not, I feel like if you're looking for an original film, I don't think you have to look much further than this film right here, because I do think this film is about as original as you can get. The story and the execution, I feel like, is super unique.

SPEAKER_05 20:57

You know, what is originality if not just the reflection of our own lived experiences? That's the thing. This movie is this movie, it works and it's original because it's so relatable. So it's not like you're gonna walk into this and be like, holy shit, I've never seen anything like this before. Because it gives you this sensation or this feeling of like recapturing the magic of something maybe you fell in love with and saw yourself in. It captures the moment that you didn't feel quite as alone. And it's not a unique feeling, but having it translated so well to film is very different.

SPEAKER_07 21:37

Yeah, something I texted you, Chris, after I had first watched it was the thing that this movie set out to do, it did successfully. And I think no other movie has ever really done it this way. But it also does inherently come through the lens of familiarity and nostalgia. So I think we can give it some originality points, at least in my book. But you despite it feeling familiar, it has a unique thing to say.

SPEAKER_00 21:56

It's definitely unique, and I think there might be aspects of The film that we've seen before, especially when dealing with TVs and questioning reality and questioning memories. But I think overall it is a unique feel. The characters feel unique. So we gotta give it some credit there. But yeah, the way it gets their components, you know, borrowed here and there.

SPEAKER_04 22:25

Absolutely. And I think even like I mentioned the Buffy, the Vampire Slayer of It All, there's a nod to Adventures of Pete and Pete. There's uh several little Easter eggs here and there of the 90s and that nostalgia piece, but it does blend so many different genres. We've talked about our house a lot, but I think like sci-fi, drama, horror-ish, you know, all of that I think is so cool. Obviously, being able to write about your own experience and blend in in a way where it's more on a macro level than just writing something so personal, I guess. She's mentioned that it's not like an autobiography, right? It's more like maybe experiences that she's had, and I think that that's really cool to put a personal piece out there, but then make it something that everyone can kind of relate or have a takeaway from. So definitely on an original aspect.

SPEAKER_05 23:12

I think the other element of this, and I know I mentioned just a moment ago of how relatable it is. I absolutely loved its approach and really the originality it executed within its ending. I think its ending is albeit not a sensation you maybe want to linger in, and I think Paris had a perfect way of describing this general sensation, and I cannot wait to unpack that more in the spoiler zone. But it captures this feeling that I again find incredibly relatable and also terrifying.

SPEAKER_04 23:44

A thousand percent this ending has to be one of the most harrowing endings I've seen in a quote unquote horror film in the last five years, at least. To the point that my friends and I, we were the last ones in the theater, our mouths dropped, we were crying. I couldn't even believe it. I don't know what it is. It's such an uncomfortable feeling that I was not anticipating, and s it's really tough to discuss it without revealing what it is. Um so I'll leave it there, but it's man, an ending that had me on my ass. And then once again, re-watching it, I was telling my friends, hey, I'm rewatching, I saw the TV glow, and they were like, Oh, have you cried yet? I was like, No, but I feel like I'm going to at this particular scene when the ending starts and what happened, yep, did it again. It's just it's tough, it's a tough part.

SPEAKER_02 24:32

Yeah. I do think that the ending is where a good portion of people might get lost. I think you have to think about it. I also think it was intentionally not super clear, at least from what you see on screen, and the symbolism is there and it's prominent, but I think the ending was not my favorite part of this movie only because, to all of your points, it left me with such a heavy feeling. And I guess some could say that that is a good thing. It was effective in that way. But sometimes a movie can give you a feeling that's too effective.

SPEAKER_00 25:04

I can understand where you're coming from because at a certain point you do have some investment in the characters and you're really hoping for the best. You truly are, and then when you get to the very end of the movie, I don't think it's surprising what we get, but the way that it's delivered to us is definitely it's ice cold. And it's probably a good thing, honestly, for for truly understanding some pain. But yeah, it is brutal.

SPEAKER_07 25:29

Yeah, I actually really enjoyed the ending, mostly because the movie was over, but also because it sort of made it worth something. I felt like there was a worthwhile payoff, at least from a character development standpoint, even though it was a real bummer and it didn't feel great. It felt real and it felt sad, and they did that.

SPEAKER_05 25:48

Well, they sure did do that, and I can't wait to see how that actually impacts our ratings. But before we start to score this movie, Sean, how would you describe the gore score?

SPEAKER_02 25:59

Man, this movie has about as much gore as you would get from a TV show back in the mid-90s. Literally none. Absolutely none. I guess we will call it a low to non-existent gore score for the sake of the show, but it's more of a glow score than anything.

SPEAKER_05 26:17

And what about the animal report?

SPEAKER_04 26:19

I'm happy to report that the pink opaque does not have any animal cruelty.

SPEAKER_05 26:24

Let's go ahead and get into our ratings then. I saw the TV glow from 2024. Was it a hack or a slash?

SPEAKER_02 26:30

I'll kick us off. I think this movie does something that few movies that I've seen have been able to do, and that's to evoke this feeling that sits with you and really changes your mood for a while after watching it. I don't know why, but 13 immediately comes to mind as one of those movies. This movie brings you back to that awkward feeling of youth, of being a teenager, feeling like you don't fit in, the fear of being normalized and having to try to fit into society, the responsibilities of being an adult. Maybe this movie is about finding yourself and not fitting into the societal norms. And I found myself really enjoying the film. And maybe I just like strange films because I can feel like this is gonna be another movie to add to my list that is movies that I love that most people dislike. And I think it's just the cinematography of this movie, the awkwardly perfect acting, the lighting, it all made this movie visually stunning. And that's like the key phrase for this movie: visually stunning. I gotta tell you, I saw the TV glow and I'm tuned in. It's a slash.

SPEAKER_05 27:35

For the record, I want to just point out that this movie is certified fresh and critics fucking rave about it. So I think you're not exactly in the minority here, Sean.

SPEAKER_02 27:44

Yeah, but critics rave about films that average viewers don't like, and then average viewers rave about films that critics bash on. So maybe critics and I will align, but I think that the common folk that I would talk to would be like, yeah, I didn't get it, or nah, it was boring, or it was slow, or whatever, you know?

SPEAKER_00 28:03

I can see some valid points to kind of all of the viewpoints there. Some people won't get it. It is very artsy, it is very like visually appealing as well, which you mentioned, and it deserves all the credit in the world for what it's able to show on the screen. I gotta give it some credit for being able to show feeling broken, but not understanding why you're broken or how you're broken, and not understanding the fact that you're not actually broken, but something's wrong and you don't know why. That is something that I a hundred percent can understand and it put it out there for the world. But like you said, it's gonna be hard for a lot of folks to connect the dots. If you don't understand the context, you're gonna miss out on so much, which is really unfortunate because it's gonna let you empathize with other human beings just watching this film. But it is slow and it is kind of boring and it is very sleepy. But don't hold that against it. I just think that the marketing here should really lean into the fact that this is for your brain and this is not just for your eyeballs, this is for you to think about and not just have an hour and 45 minutes of action and really cool stuff happening. You know, this is for really cool stuff to happen up in your neurons, you know, but it's hard to get through. It's one of those where when you figure out what's going on and what everything means, you're like, I don't know that I could watch that again, even if you appreciate it, which I definitely do. It's a slash. It's a great film, even though it is a little bit slow, it's a little bit hard to get through, but it's an intimidating concept to imagine a rewatch, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_07 29:31

Very interesting here tonight so far. I feel like maybe y'all are slashing it because you feel like you have to slash it, lest we be canceled.

SPEAKER_06 29:40

What lest we be canceled?

SPEAKER_07 29:43

No way. I will not assume anyone's opinions. You have made yours known, just surprising to me. So I watched this movie. It was long, it was boring, it was ultimately disappointing for me. It was not a horror movie. The nerve of these people to qualify it as a horror movie, like I said, very bold. This movie would be a very good 30-minute short if you took just the scenes with dialogue, cut out all of the extra filler. In fact, there were several times during both of my watches where I suspected this was a short, and then they just had to stretch every shot by about three to five minutes and add extra music to it. Speaking of music, there's two full musical numbers here where it's just a music video of somebody performing on stage. First time I was like, okay, sure, kind of trippy, whatever. Second time I said skip, we're not, I'm not listening to your mixtape, Phoebe Bridgers. I'm so sorry. I know some of our listeners love Phoebe and I just don't know her like that. But ultimately, on both watches, I was like, this I can never recommend as a horror movie. This is not totally killer, pun intended, at all. It's nothing of the sort. It is far from it. Yes, gender dysphoria is very scary. And maybe if I'd watched this movie last year when I was at the beginning of my transition, I would feel differently about it. Maybe it would have really hit me in the fields, but I cannot recommend this as a horror movie. It is a hack for me, despite also being little asterisk, a really incredible portrayal of what it's like to live with gender dysphoria, or like I said, in a more general sense, any sort of unfulfilled identity or feeling of brokenness, like you were saying, Mac. But you could do that in 30 minutes. They wasted a lot of my time with the way that they did it. And I've never been a fan of this storytelling approach, and I don't think I ever will be.

SPEAKER_04 31:18

I love how this is panning out. This is hilarious to me. And it's somehow I did call this. I should have probably placed a bet with somebody. And that's fine. It's funny. I was convinced that I would hate this film immensely. I practically had to be dragged to the theater to go see it. It wasn't until one of my closest friends saw the film by himself, called me afterwards, absolutely sobbing, showed up to my house and unpacked the whole thing that then convinced me, like, I should go. And then I went with two of my other friends who are queer and have struggled with gender identity. And I couldn't even believe the experience that I had. I guess in terms of sharing the moment with them as they were reflecting the empathy I felt for them, the pieces of the film that I resonated with. So I think it was just the experience as a whole being turned on its head, going into it, and then leaving the theater that made this film actually like top five favorite films of this year. It's actually ranked number three currently. If we were to keep really considering this as a horror film, this is actually technically my favorite horror film of the year. Oh, but I've been calling the first omen actually as my favorite horror of the year. So far, friends, still got a lot more to go, but you know, there's that. I think that Schoenbryn has masterfully called out millennials in a way, with this whole piece of nostalgia and reflection, and said that there is still time. That's like a mantra that is repeated throughout this film or shown throughout this film. There's still time for you to be the real you and not repress who you are any longer. And that's something that transcends all genres. That's something that everyone can relate to. And it's a very profound arthouse film that has these glimmers of non-traditional horror, but I can see how people can kind of get lost in the sci-fi of it all. They can get lost in the expectations that they weren't expecting, right? Like we all go into this thinking horror and murder and gore, but it's like none of that whatsoever. It's more about the reflection and the melancholy. It's more about how this is gonna make you feel like you should probably talk to your therapist afterwards, at least for me and for several of my friends that have seen this film. And so when you think about it as a whole, and if you haven't gotten already, if you're gonna go and watch this film, I suggest a couple of things. One, prepare that it's going to be a very big think piece and it's gonna make you think about how much time you've probably not been your authentic self in whatever capacity that may be, whether it be gender, whether it be, you know, just your interests, etc. I would say get ready to feel very unsettled and probably have some awkward laughs here and there, and it for it to be a slow burn for sure, and then potentially have your tissue box nearby. Because maybe you'll cry as much as I did, maybe you won't because you feel numb. Who knows? But have it nearby just in case. And maybe, just maybe, you'll find it a slash like I did.

SPEAKER_05 34:14

You know, there's excellent arguments all around for how to look at this film. Paris, I think you're absolutely on to something here where it's difficult to recommend this as a horror film. If I really want to do that, this would be in a very select starter pack of horror films where you want to show it to some friends who want some deep shit and don't like to watch dumb bullshit. This is that kind of movie. It's like, okay, if you are someone who perhaps likes the depth that Jordan Peel provides, but Jordan Peel is still too horror for you, still too scary for you, then maybe this might be up your alley. This movie is something that I struggle with because yes, it's a really good movie, but I struggle with its placement within horror. I will say though, that for all the mix that it gives, you know, we've talked about other movies in the past on the show, and actually we have movies coming up where the same exact argument comes up. It's a horror movie, but it doesn't have to only be horror. It can be multifaceted, it can be multidimensional, but is it effective in everything that it does? I think what this movie does is it wields very personal feelings for me against me to live up the horror aspect, and I think it does so with a level of restraint and reverence. I've found myself being okay with it. I think if this movie was more of a fucking bummer, I'd be hacking it. But I'm going to give it a slash because A, the storytelling is excellent, B, the cinematography is excellent, C, there are things about this movie that even remind me of conversations that Paris and I have had playing video games. And those are very quiet, intimate moments where you feel seen by another person and you can feel connected to something bigger than yourself. And for a movie to be able to capture that and still be within the horror genre, I think it's pretty special. So a horror movie, barely, but still a good horror movie nonetheless. And with that, I saw the TV glow from 2024 has earned one hack and four slashes. Now you can find this movie available on demand right now, and the conversation about this movie doesn't end because there's so much more to discuss when we return from break now. If you've already seen it, please let us know what you would rate it. You can find the link to let us know and join that conversation for free in our Discord server. And if you haven't seen it yet, you can follow the other link in our show notes to see where you can watch it right now. When we return from our break, we'll dive deeper into just how Paris and I, in true fashion, managed to be two different sides of the same coin. I'll see you in a bit.

SPEAKER_01 37:44

Served straight from the creepiest ice cream truck, this side of the static, available in unsettling flavors like Gloomy Glow, Dreadful Delight, Vanilla Void, and our signature flavor, Ink Opaque. Each scoop is a chilling reminder that nothing is as sweet as it seems. Perfect for late-night stroll down those eerily empty streets. Or when you just can't shake that eerie feeling, you're being watched by more than just your TV, Mr. Melancholy's Midnight Ice Cream. Because sometimes, the only way to face the darkness is with a double scoop of delicious melancholy. Grab yours, if you dare, and when you hear that haunting jingle echoing through your neighborhood, look for the green truck with the pillowing smoke. Now back to the show.

SPEAKER_02 39:14

Well, yeah, I mean, we only have two confirmed kills or deaths rather in this movie, and they are not even really the highlight of this movie. You know, you have the mom, the dad, they died of various reasons, but it doesn't add much to the film. I do think there is something heartbreaking about the mom's death, but you don't really care about the dad that much. Honestly, is there anything really left to say about these kills, or should we just get into it and talk about this movie?

SPEAKER_00 39:46

If you wanted to, you could make a case for some of the stuff that happens within the show, but there's no confirmed deaths within the show either. Well, that's okay.

SPEAKER_05 40:00

Well, I don't know. I want to go back to what Paris mentioned earlier about not living up to your potential. And when you don't live up to your potential, your potential dies.

SPEAKER_07 40:09

Yeah. People died inside. That's true. And isn't that the saddest death of all? Because then you still have to be alive. Ugh. You don't even get the benefit of dying. You just get all the worst parts. And none of the peace.

SPEAKER_05 40:23

But Mac, you did mention, obviously, the pink opaque. And I think we can all agree that a lot of moments in the pink opaque are just fucking stellar to look at. And I'm thinking specifically the shot of the green Mr. Sprinkly truck with a pink smoke pouring out of it.

SPEAKER_06 40:42

So good.

SPEAKER_04 40:44

Absolute visual eye candy. I also think that the missed opportunity here that we've talked about agnostium is like how they could have leaned more into the horror. And I'm talking more of Marco and Polo. They are creepy motherfuckers. They are very weird and unsettling to look at. Also, Mr. Mel Melancholy and the Ice Cream Man. Like when there is the bit of horror, I guess, and the practical effects, it's really nasty and weird and unsettling. Even the beating heart. Like, I wish we had a little bit more of that because they did a great job at it.

SPEAKER_02 41:17

They did. I mean, it's really the fucking strange ass moon face, you know, that melancholy of it all that really got me. It's just that moon that the face is just like moving around and making weird faces. Oh man, come on.

SPEAKER_05 41:31

Okay, Mr. Melancholy and this whole moon bullshit reminds me of I don't know what this thing actually is, but it's literally a moon face.

SPEAKER_04 41:42

You're talking about isn't it a trip to the moon?

SPEAKER_05 41:44

No. The characters called Mac Tonight, but it's literally a moon with sunglasses, and like he wears like a fucking bomber jacket and looks like a douchebag.

SPEAKER_00 41:52

Ah, that one. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 41:55

Oh. Oh, I was here thinking it was a trip to the moon because it that was also referenced in Lisa Frankenstein. Oh, you know what? With the eyes.

SPEAKER_05 42:03

It's McDonald's is involved in this, and I don't know. Yes.

SPEAKER_07 42:07

Yeah, it's a McDonald's extended their hours and created this man to get hype. Wow, and he's not even good looking. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 42:13

Well, I'll add a link in the show notes for this. But Mr. Melancholy is giving Mac tonight, but less handsome.

SPEAKER_07 42:20

Mr. Melancholy reminded me of Pizza Face from All That. Remember they like put a man's face in a pizza. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:27

It looked like that. Just to go back to you mentioning just the shot of the ice cream truck, right? With the use of colors and all of that. And I think really it's the it is the use of colors in this movie that I think is just absolutely visually stunning. I love the use of the pinks in this movie, the use of not just the colors, but also the angles, the shadows, they're fantastic. But overall, it's really the pink opaque tattoo because now I honestly really want a neon pink ghost tattoo.

SPEAKER_00 42:58

Let's talk about that tattoo though, because like you mentioned, Sean, the colors in this movie are great. And I think that's what led a lot of us to really imagine from the promotional material that this was going to be like a super psychedelic retro kind of vibe going on. But the use of color here was great, specifically in a lot of the writing that you didn't like. I actually really liked that. It was giving light writing. That's the kind of cool thing where you take. I don't know, would you take a glow stick or a sparkler or something, and then you use a camera mode and you splice it together and it looks like magic. I'm into it. It looks like fun. That writing kind of felt like that for me when it's on screen. The tattoo itself kind of felt like that. And those looks were great. I actually really enjoyed some of the typography here, some of the graphics that we used in between shots of stuff where we're having a monologue, and then we have this art on screen that would pop up around it. There was one of those shots where the whole screen ended up almost getting filled with it, and it was fantastic. And that was probably one of my one of the best things to look at in this movie.

SPEAKER_07 43:54

For me, my favorite visual element is all of the character designs for the Pinko Pan. Opaque characters. On the second watch, I sort of drew even more parallels than I did in the first one. Obviously, we have our two main characters. They're clearly represented in the pink opaque. But then I was like, oh wait, Owen's dad is Mr. Melancholy, duh. And then his two douchey co-workers are Marco and Polo. And I was like, oh, they're in there. They're in the midnight realm. They're causing mayhem. They're keeping Owen in a trance. And I think visually those characters, like aesthetically, were the best and closest thing to scratching a horror itch for me. I think a lot of those practical effects were like very ugly, very creepy, very unsettling. And I would love to see more of that.

SPEAKER_00 44:32

Mr. Melancholy's face up close and it's like shifting and morphing and stuff. That was awesome.

SPEAKER_02 44:38

Yeah, that was cool.

SPEAKER_00 44:39

The the puking ice cream stuff, though, I it was almost too much, and to the point where I was like, I actually do want more of that because it is one of the most unsettling parts of the movie visually.

SPEAKER_04 44:49

Another extremely unsettling scene, I guess, just visually, is when Limp Biscuit is basically drowning Owen in this tub, and then the vomit of the ecstatic, and also the juice like coming out of his body, but it's also drawn over. It just felt so weird and bizarre. Or also, I guess, in that same scene when Owen is like putting their head in the TV.

SPEAKER_02 45:17

So good.

SPEAKER_04 45:18

Great shots for sure. There's several of them that are like definitely gonna keep in the brain for sure.

SPEAKER_05 45:23

A lot of dimension in it in here, and even what we see in the background. And this is like a very specific thing, but I'm thinking about when Owen is walking around school, and then in the background, we get by the what I presume would be the gym area, pain is weakness leaving the body. And just thinking about how much this movie deals with pain, both physical and emotional, but then also what is the body and what are the issues that are felt with Owen's body, with Maddie's body, etc. I think it was just like a nice little note of almost like seasoning to make this feel more real. And there are little things hidden everywhere in this movie that really compound. But I'm thinking about the visuals here, and I want to ask a question. Did anyone else in the scene where Maddie as Tara is describing the burial think of the hacky sack scene from She's All That?

SPEAKER_02 46:22

I don't even remember that scene.

SPEAKER_04 46:24

Oh my goodness gracious. I well, because Chris knows that she's all that is one of my favorite movies. And you have some golf. I love it. I really do. I really, really do.

SPEAKER_05 46:37

Am I wrong? I'm not wrong.

SPEAKER_04 46:39

She's a part of this like performance art troupe, and Freddie Prince Jr.'s character goes to, you know, kind of like impress her a bit and show off and show as if he's like open to what she's into, some extent. It's giving the dramatics and such, so that's what Chris is kind of referencing to.

SPEAKER_05 46:58

Listen, the energy of the scene is great, but it was the look of this scene that was giving the hacky sack scene from G's all that. And I'll drop a link in the show notes if you haven't seen it, but I thought it was spot on.

SPEAKER_04 47:11

That's fair, but it's funny that you bring that up because when I was on the phone with my friend as I was re-watching it, I brought up that scene in particular because I noticed something the second time around that I thought was more impactful than when I had first seen it. And it's when what we presume to be Tara at this point gets up, goes to, I guess, this what is it, like these buttons, this device that would change the constellations. At that point that it's timed when they get up and they go to that machine, they're talking about how Maddie is dying, like full on in their last breaths. And then they start to notice that they're leaving their body and seeing themselves like if they're watching a TV screen. At that same time, the constellations are now being shown as these images of the zodiac signs of all of these constellations and such. And I thought to myself, damn, maybe I'm reaching here, but the timing of this is so pristine because I feel a lot more clarity about what's actually happening in this film right now in this scene, just as I do looking at these stars. Like, how many times do you probably hang out with somebody, or you know, when you're a kid, you look up at the stars and you're probably learning in class what these constellations are. And I don't know, man. Every single time I look up at the stars, I'm like, I don't fucking see shit. You tell me that that's the Big Dipper and it's supposed to look like a pot. I'm like, I don't know what the fuck you're talking about. That's the burgo constellation. I don't see it. I don't know what the fuck you're saying. But then when you show me the pictures of what it's supposed to look like, then I'm like, oh, that's a reach, I guess, but I can see it. And that's what that scene you're connected to.

SPEAKER_07 48:45

All constellations are a reach. They are a reach.

SPEAKER_05 48:49

That's why you have to reach for the stars. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_04 48:52

I love the beauty. But do you know what I mean? I guess maybe I'm reaching in terms of the symbolism. Things came into focus. They came into focus, both for the story and the plot, but also the constellations and science.

SPEAKER_05 49:04

What a beautiful moment. We love to see it. Or think that we see it until someone paints a more clearer picture of it.

SPEAKER_07 49:10

A scene that I don't think was that beautiful, but was actually my favorite scene. And that was Mr. Melan Mr. Melancholy monologue. Scariest part of the movie for me, super trippy. The face was a combination. I think the face was mostly CGI, the way it was kind of dissolving around the edges, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was like some practical base there as a foundation. But that was very creepy because it was the first time where we really get like Mr. Melancholy's tea and like what his agenda is. And it's actually so nasty and so hateful to bury somebody alive, trap them in a snow globe, and then just have them have complete amnesia, and then they're trapped in this little bubble, wondering why they feel so weird and out of place and like they don't belong there. And it's like, oh yeah, jokes on you, you're actually suffocating to death, and you don't realize it. So I think Mr. Melancholy has a really nasty attitude and a really vicious penchance for, I guess, revenge, but I'm not really sure what these girls did to him to make him so angry with them that he would exact something so heinous.

SPEAKER_05 50:10

Mr. Melancholy's a bitch.

SPEAKER_07 50:12

Big bitch.

SPEAKER_04 50:13

A big bitch. It's interesting that you bring up that particular scene because my favorite scene's shortly thereafter, where at this point, Owen slash Isabel has decided that they're going to continue living their life. And it's when they're sharing that their father has passed away, they make a statement that they're going to be an adult now, a proper adult, and be a real man. And the scene that twice now has caused immense waterworks for me is when Owen goes towards the TV to pick it up and looks right at the camera and says, I even got a family of my own. I love them more than anything. But it's the way that Justice Smith portrays that line with such happiness and instantly goes back into this sad facial expression, this sense of like submission that is absolutely heartbreaking. And succumbing to the fact that you're never going to know the truth. And after just seconds ago sharing that you're wondering what if maybe Maddie was right? What if they were telling the truth? And then just deciding, well, I guess I'll just accept who I am now because that's what I should be doing. It's just very heartbreaking.

SPEAKER_05 51:30

Goes into this moment where Owen is trying to convince Owen. Owen isn't trying to convince us. And there's also the reality that we so often live our lives for other people, and we live our lives by other people's expectations. And I think about the choices that I've made or the things that I've opened up about or not opened up about, and it's always been because of ex-relative or ex-situation and this kind of thing where your love almost at some points can become the most oppressive force in your own life. And it's like, how do you sidestep that? How do you navigate around that? How do you remove the barriers that you put up for yourself and just look yourself in the eye, see who you are, and choose who you are versus who you think everyone wants you to be?

SPEAKER_07 52:18

It's like the hardest thing to put yourself first in that way.

SPEAKER_02 52:22

Yeah. No, it's so true because I feel like everyone has been there in one way or another. I think even myself to this day, even if it's something small, there's times where I'm like, well, what is someone gonna think if I do this? And I will almost stop myself from doing something. You know what I mean? And it's just it is crazy to think about. It is deep on a lot of levels.

SPEAKER_00 52:42

There's a moment that's perhaps less deep that I really enjoyed, and that's our two main characters during the tattooing scene. And there was just such like gentle caressing that was also like not quite gentle at this at the same time. And I think what I loved about that is we had finally a moment of like true companionship and two people who could like truly connect to each other, followed by oh my gosh, let me scrub this off my neck so that nobody knows what's going on. And talk about a one-to-punch of like, boom, now I've met somebody who's like I've led inside, but no one else can know that.

SPEAKER_05 53:21

Yeah, it is this deeply rooted shame. And oh man, there's so many things that you can feel in that moment when you're on the cusp of accepting yourself, and then you really push yourself back down. And it's like, how much do we have to go through in our lives before we want to fully embrace who we are, but also embracing the parts of you that you've had closed off for so long, and so it's such a scary thing to do. But I loved the scene that I think really plants the seed for that, and that is when if it's very early on in the film, Owen is in the car saying, Hey, can I stay up late to watch the pink opaque? And what does Frank do? Frank turns around and says, Isn't that a show for girls? The look on Owen's face, man, I have felt that shit so many times in my life, whether it was wanting to play with boys' toys when I was a kid, whether it was the day that I was like, all right, if I get to shop for my own clothes, I want to go to the men's department because I don't feel comfortable and I don't feel like anything in the women's department or the juniors department feels right for who I am and and and the way that I live. But the shame that you can feel in those moments when someone stops you and halts you and says, I don't know, isn't that wrong? And it's not always with bad intentions, it's just a questioning moment. It's just a question of like, huh, is that what you're into? It can seem so small, but it is the kind of thing that builds up such deep emotional scars.

SPEAKER_04 54:54

And I would imagine like a resentment towards yourself, amongst other things, right? Where you feel like you build like the sense of hatred and frustration with yourself because you're trying so hard to then be what you think is correct. And when we think of this film and it being in like the suburbs, and that's referenced and mentioned a few times, right? Where like I think Owen says this is not the midnight realm, this is just the suburbs. You think of the suburbs and how it's so traditional and cookie-cutter, and you have to do XYZ, you have to do this, you have to look like this and be this way. And throughout the film, there's several times where Owen, you know, expresses that they do feel different, even when Maddie asks them if they like boys or they like girls, and they don't even know how to really answer that because it's like I think everyone can kind of like relate to even when you're younger, you're still trying to understand what that even means. It's not like you just wake up one day and understand that innately. So that particular scene's another one that I enjoy thoroughly because it's kind of foreshadowed a little bit when Maddie then responds with like maybe you're like Isabel, afraid of what's inside you that I caught on to this time around. I was like, oh shit, look at that seed being planted. I appreciated it.

SPEAKER_02 56:05

Yeah, I I also want to shout out, I guess it would be the final moments of the film too. I and I think I mentioned disliking the ending because of how it makes you feel at the end and how it sticks with you at the end, but I also have this love-hate relationship because I also think the scene or scenes that lead up to the end of the movie was just so impactful. You know, you have the fun zone birthday party scene, right? But it and that was jarring and it was super effective. But it leads to seeing Owen in the bathroom opening the chest up, right? Or the stomach up, and Owen's looking at their inner self, but there's this sad grip of reality, and it's almost like it's too late, right? Or that even though they finally see themselves, they aren't ready for the world to see them yet. And that is what is just so fucked up. And when that sticks with you afterwards, it just puts you in a mood that doesn't feel fucking great, but it was super effective, especially that they're apologizing afterwards, too.

SPEAKER_04 57:12

The last seconds are them still having to apologize to others.

SPEAKER_06 57:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 57:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 57:17

Brutal, holy hell.

SPEAKER_05 57:19

Apologizing for your own existence is such a thing, but also can we talk about what a specific choice it was for Owen to sound exactly like fucking Morty from Rick and Morty?

SPEAKER_07 57:28

I did think that a couple times. I've never seen Rick and Morty. I can't tell you. Oh, geez, Rick, I'm sorry about earlier. That was much better.

SPEAKER_02 57:38

Wow, it's wild. I I'll cut the intensity though, because there was a scene that I thought was insanely relatable, at least for me, and it actually had me laughing, and it was the drive-thru burger joint scene because motherfuck! Like, I have totally been there where it's so fucking awkward to try to order your food at the drive-thru, and like you're not communicating on a really good level, and it just feels off, and you're just like, All right, yeah, just give me the price. I need to get out of here.

SPEAKER_04 58:09

That's what I was mentioning. That's the scene I was referencing earlier where it's like, look, even for the levity part, that scene, everyone's been there. The frustrations. Also, that was Mr. Melancholy's voice. So Mr. Melancholy said, Let's fuck around with you even more, actually, in the drive-thru.

SPEAKER_07 58:23

Pulling the strings bitch puppet master, Mr. Melancholy. Get your own shit together, Moon Man. But also, y'all need to be paying with the mobile order app. It's so much easier. You barely have to talk to anybody.

SPEAKER_05 58:38

Get it together, Owen. I do also want to highlight though, Owen's mom. Because after we get away from the mid-90s of it all, just two years later, we see an older Owen walking through this carnival fair situation. And she says, She says, It just feels like you're always somewhere else lately. Not sure if it's because of me. And you realize how she's carrying herself and how different she is from the previous scene when he's much younger. How she is in this previous scene when Owen is much younger. But to take this moment to try to address something, not feeling comfortable in addressing it, and also shouldering some of that blame. The dynamics between Owen's family is something else to consider on top of everything else that they're already experiencing. But for Owen's mom to be at the end of her life with a terminal illness, and her focus right now is how am I making my kid feel? Feels like you're somewhere else. It's just such a fucking sad moment.

SPEAKER_07 59:44

Very mom-coded. But also, I felt like she was a little bit of an enabler. She was a little bit complicit. Her husband was shit and she didn't do much about it.

SPEAKER_02 59:51

It was a sad moment. I do want to point out there was the moment where she's dropping Owen off, and Owen is trying to fake the sleepover thing to be able to go watch the show. And I just want to know what parent is not waiting for their kid to go into the house. You know what I mean? There was a moment where you could tell she wanted to, but then she chose to drive off. But that was such an obvious fake out for me. Maybe it's just because I'm the viewer, and maybe because I've been there, you know, trying to pull this shit on parents, but it just seemed a little off.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:23

Yeah, it seemed like she was making a very deliberate choice in that moment to give Owen a little bit of space and independence.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:29

I tried to justify it like that too. So I'm on the same page, Chris. But also it was the 90s. Parents weren't as scared.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:36

I suppose. Gosh, it's tough because I think the adults that are shown throughout the beginning of this film, you you really have either disdain for or you just don't quite understand. And that maybe that's on purpose. Maybe that helps us really relate to what the characters are going through. But even as we get older throughout the film and we're in the future now, all the other adults just suck pretty much. There's like very few of them that are decent beings. Maybe that's real life. I don't know.

SPEAKER_07 1:01:05

Well, because they're all manifestations of Mr. Melancholy. They're all his minions set out to make Owen's life miserable.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:12

Mm-hmm. You had manager melancholy getting a fucking blowjob in the fucking cinema Cineplex manager's office, and then being all weird saying, Did you like what you saw? Get the fuck out of here, bruh. Ugh.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:25

Ugh a personification of toxic masculinity in terms in the form of manager melancholy. What an absolute douchebag.

SPEAKER_07 1:01:35

Toxic melancholy. Definitely. Not a character I particularly cared for, but I do feel like our two leads, Maddie and Owen, very compelling. It's sort of like, hey, these are two different paths one can take in life. Neither is easy, both are hard, both are very scary, and you kind of have to decide which one you're gonna take. And the message of the movie is that there's always time to change paths. But it was interesting to have them balance each other out because it's sort of like these are the consequences I had to deal with because of my choice, and these are the consequences you have to deal with because of your choice. And one of them is making an argument of hey, coming to my side, the consequences aren't as bad. And I really felt that to be relatable and compelling, and I think really the anchor and heart and soul of the movie.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:21

I would agree with that. And man, even looking at Maddie's journey, and I made a joke earlier about the hacky sack scene, there is a moment where Maddie says time wasn't right, it was moving too fast. Then I was 19 and 20, and then later on, and then I was 21, like chapters skipped over on a DVD. Holy shit, I don't know if I've ever been fucking hit so deeply by a string of words that I was by these words in that moment. Because it's this passing of time slipping through your fingers, and this realization of I'm only getting older, time is moving so quickly. What am I doing with my life? What is the path that I'm accepting for myself? Oh, I just I just absolutely loved it. So you're right, Paris. For Maddie and Owen to represent two completely different paths. Again, both are difficult, yes, but Maddie's portrayal of that path is fucking top-notch in this film because it shows the grass is not always greener on the other side. It shows the pain of it, but it also shows the promise of some relief of being comfortable in your own skin.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:36

Yeah. There's just something between these two characters, the way that the it's the execution of the acting, the narrative, the characters feel so real, almost too real, super relatable. It really does speak volumes to the work that they were able to do.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:52

And the intentionality of down to their voices as well, right? So Owen's voice purposely expressing itself in a way that's unsettling, uncomfortable. It just doesn't make sense for Justice Smith's build, right? It just not the voice you expect coming out of that body. It just doesn't make sense. But then it makes sense, it entirely makes sense in a way, right? We're talking about someone who doesn't even feel comfortable in the body that they're in. And so it obviously foreshadows a deeper meaning that is then revealed in the film. With Maddie as well, you see this transition, you know, like that goth persona, the emo bang, and then later on almost comes off a little bit more feminine in a way with her longer hair when they're sitting in the bleachers, and then towards the end, just almost cerebral, like an alien, peaceful and yet not so numb, but also full of heart, especially in that same now. I'm gonna call it the hacky sack scene.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:52

I told you, bitches love a hacky sack. God damn it.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:56

But yeah, when Tara at this point starts to cry as they're pleading to Owen that they came all this way to try and save them. It's just so interesting how that wall is broken, that strength of Tara that's was once numb is like absolutely destroyed, pleading to please go into this coffin, kill yourself, essentially. It's very dark shit. Even when I say it like that, it's very gives me chills.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:24

I do want to point out Frank or the dad being Fred Durst was a complete surprise to me. I had no idea Fred Durst was a part of this movie until I watched it, but I do want to point out a specific moment with the dad, and it's when Owen comes home and Owen's confronting Frank, and the conversation is just so weird, the visual is so weird, right? Frank looks fucking evil, like creepy as hell, and it's not in every moment of the movie, but in that moment, he looked fucking weird, and it really that was one of the most creepy, eerie moments. Of the film for me.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:01

You know, we talked about a lot of great things about this movie, and I know that I already mentioned a couple qualms. I've already mentioned the Morty Force. Oh, geez, Rick, uh, sorry about that before. But there are a couple other things that I want to point out as the worst aspects of this movie. One, they expect us to believe it's only two years of aging between the actors that play Owen. Get the fuck out of here. Get the fuck out of here, kids. Second, when Owen is in Owen's final form as an older person, they want to show us that age by giving Owen crusty lips.

SPEAKER_07 1:06:41

Owen has been puking up luna juice.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:43

Correct. Crusty lips from all the vomiting. It's doing crusty lips. It's giving old man with the fucking shit on the mouth that you know what I mean? That you just can never get away get rid of, get w get away. That's what it's giving. I get it, it's luna juice, but also it's old man crusty. I hate mouth stuff.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:02

It's also just Owen dying.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:04

Yes. But also, speaking of the body, close-up of chest hair while Owen's carving his chest open. Chest hair, disgusting. I gagged.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:15

I saw the chest hair and I was like, next time I'm just gonna start writing things down. Any patron, if you're listening, if you want to do a bet, we can do this, right? I'm just gonna start writing it down and being like, I know that Chris is gonna hate this and do this and see if I win.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:29

Yeah, it's fucking disgusting.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:31

Speaking of chest hair, actually not speaking about chest hair at all, but there was a scene that was particularly hard for me to get through, and that was the live music scene.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:40

That was real tough, especially when we get close up and we're just screaming. And there's nothing wrong with that in music, it has its time and its place, it's just not with a close-up in a movie that I I mean, I get that we're supposed to be identifying with the lyrics and see how it all ties together and everything, and super cool, but that's just too on the nose, too over the top, and just too loud. That's really what it was for me. Too loud.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:00

It was intense for sure. And I know Mac, you liked the writing, and I'm just gonna bring it back because that is one of my worst parts, just because I felt like it was just really distracting, and it made me trying to figure out what was writing, like what were the things that were being written all over the screen in that hallway scene in the school. And I don't know, I didn't get anything from it. You know what I mean? I I just feel like it was an interesting choice visually. Okay, maybe it looks cool, maybe it looks like something, but I felt it was a little bit unnecessary for the film. On a deeper level, I I also think the worst part is that a lot of people aren't gonna understand this movie and dismiss the film for being different and artsy.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:38

I'm right there with you, and that's the shame. And a big part of that connects to my worst part, and that's that I wish it was more horror for that reason. I wish it had more horror components so that it wasn't easily written off, especially by our listeners, right? Because I think we just joked earlier in the episode, we've done two recordings back to back, and the one that we did yesterday and this one are very debatable. And so I think that if there had been more horror and really leaned into it in the traditional sense, then it wouldn't have been easily dismissed. And therefore, the message that this film I think tries to convey so successfully would be impacting a wider audience. More people would be able to hear it, be able to get things from it and have discussions about their identity and how it impacts them and reflect and have that kind of camaraderie and community, right? But they're just gonna be like me when I saw the trailer, potentially, and be like, oh, that's some weird music and mumble core like we've joked about, and be like, yeah, this is not my bag, and just miss it entirely, when it could be a fun experience and you or a really, really fucking sad one.

SPEAKER_07 1:09:45

So if the movie was better, it could educate more people. Well, that was I'm just that was a big generalization, but I get to pick a best part, and I'm glad that we somehow got to this far in the episode and nobody's mentioned it. My favorite part of this movie is the way that they use Owen's ability to breathe to parallel Isabel being buried alive and suffocating to death. Because in the very beginning, when Owen is dropped off for the sleepover, mom says, Hey, do you have your inhaler? And then that is going to become a prevalent theme throughout. As Owen ages, Owen's ability to breathe becomes more challenging. And we get the oldest version of Owen, Owen is wheezing. Owen is wheezing with every step, with every breath, and crust at the mouth, puke and lunad juice, or just dehydrated or just decrepit, rotting flesh, aging. And for all of the breathing struggles to culminate in such a powerful scream and a powerful cry for help, where Mr. Melancholy was like, You won't even remember that you're dying, but for the briefest moment Owen remembers that they're dying. That was really gaggy to me. And then just to continue suffocating and wheezing as the oxygen in that coffin depletes. I think it was just such a really strong through line that says that this movie was, if nothing, very thoughtful.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:05

Yeah, I think there's something to be said there about that moment. I mentioned earlier how much I really loved the ending, and it's very much that freeze, that pause when Owen starts freaking the fuck out, realizing that death is imminent, the end is nigh, and nobody is moving a muscle. Everyone else around Owen just is just stoic and still, and it just very much feels like this reality of you can go through every single day dying on the fucking inside, and nobody around you would be any the wiser. And that's wild. And see, is that a kind of emotional depth that makes me want to watch the movie again? But again, because it wasn't quite as horror, it is not something that I'm gonna watch very regularly. I see this as maybe a once-a-year, once every one to two years tops kind of movie, kind of move.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:01

Yeah, you can't, it's not gonna be something that I feel like you can watch very often. I am actually really looking forward to watching this one again. This feels like one of those movies that I feel like you have to watch more than once, but you also have to be in the right mood for it at the same time.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:16

I had a discussion with my friend about re-watching this film because from their perspective, they had seen it alone, and they initially had felt like, oh, maybe I shouldn't have seen this alone. This seems to be a lot more sinister and very deep and profound than I had expected. But at the end of it, they were kind of happy that they did see it alone because they were able to really like release and lend themselves to what the movie was trying to tell them. From my perspective, now having seen it alone and with friends, I kind of agree. So I think moving forward, I feel like I would probably want to re-watch this by myself if I ever needed like a cathartic reflection type piece, I guess. But I've now at this point I've seen this movie twice in the same year. And I feel like it's one too many times for my therapist to hear about it. So I'm going to not watch it again this year. I'm gonna give it a beat. I agree with Chris, maybe like once every two years or so, but it's certainly one that I would own. That is for sure gonna happen.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:15

I don't know that I would be able to make a determination about re-watching this movie. It's an intense watch, but at the same time a sleepy watch. And I don't know when the mood would hit when I would want to watch it, to be honest. I think you could re-watch it. I just don't I don't see the desire hitting me.

SPEAKER_07 1:13:31

Yeah, I'm right there with you, Mac. Having watched it twice, I do feel like I'm at max capac. But if I were to come across a friend or like a baby trans who's like either on the cusp of their egg breaking or their egg did just break and they want some catharsis, I would probably recommend this movie and maybe be willing to watch it alongside them in case they needed a friend. Um, but generally I think this movie is not something you're excited to re-watch because it's sad and it's a bummer.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:57

Well, as much of a bummer as it may be, there you have it, folks. I saw the TV glow from 2024 has earned one hack and four slashes. Now we certainly had a robust discussion here, but clearly the conversation about this movie doesn't end here by any means.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:14

If you want to find out how you can go further than this episode, consider supporting the show by subscribing through Apple Podcasts or visiting patreon.com slash hackerslash where you can enjoy even more of the show, including bonus content with early access, extended episodes with our B-sides, movie nominations, and my favorite, live shows.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:33

And if you enjoyed listening to us unpack the emotional depth of this TV glowing, leave us a five-star review wherever you get your podcasts. This helps us continue to deliver great content for all you horror fiends out there.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:45

We'll see you next time, folks, and remember, there's still time.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:48

This isn't the Midnight Realm Maddie, it's just the suburbs.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:02

You know, what this really reminded me of was how great television programming was in the 1990s.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:08

And how problematic it truly is when you look back at it.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:12

Yeah, I think we can all agree that Renan Stimby was wildly inappropriate for any child to ever watch. Wow. I hated that show. It was so gross.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:20

It is super grotesque and yeah, but it's just like a childhood memory. You know what I mean? Like I look back on that and I'm like, fuck. I actually watched that as a child.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:33

Religiously trauma.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:35

There were two of them though. So don't be too confused because I think the first iteration was more kid friendly with adult subtext. And then there was like I think the second version, which was like legit made for adults. Did that come out? So that was so the first one was the early 90s, 9193, I believe. Yeah. And with Nickelodeon, and then Nickelodeon, I think, cancelled or the contract or something. I forget, but something happened. They changed studios, somebody else got replaced. I think it got worse in terms of like quality or something. But I feel like that's when it went more adult. Maybe I'm completely wrong, but I remember reading something about this that it like became more adult in the like the mid-90s.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:19

I think that's what I remember because like '91, I would have been way too young to even comprehend that show.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:26

Okay, I got it. It's so they changed, it supposedly got worse, but in 2003, there came Ren and Stimpy Adult Party Cartoon, which was a Spike TV late-night specifically targeted adults kind of thing.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:41

Nah, I don't know about that. The only thing I've ever watched on Spike TV is A Thousand Ways to Die or A hundred and Wonder Ways to Die. Whatever the fuck that Final Destination show was. Correct.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:51

That was just a wild ass show in general that's the show that would be like, so these guys like stuck their heads into port-a potties and died from inhaling the fumes because they thought they could get high. Like, what the fuck? Yeah. Who is out here sticking their head in a fucking porta potty in the first place?

SPEAKER_05 1:17:07

Genuinely, three guys, one toothpick, 100% dead. It's just the most outlandish situations.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:14

Oh man, bring that show back, actually. It's funny that you started out with a Nickelodeon show because one of the things that comes to mind is I think there was like a block of Nickelodeon shows that was made for like the kids who thought they were cool and got to stay up late or something. But I just remember all that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:29

All that. Famously the children's version of SNL.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:32

Right. But looking back, apparently it's it was plagued with horrible issues.

SPEAKER_07 1:17:36

Yeah. Define those issues. Oh, Chris, there's a full documentary. I haven't watched it yet. It was a lot of diddling on Saturday.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:44

But look at what happened to Amanda Bynes. Obviously, something bad was going on. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:48

Very problematic. Very, very bad.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:50

Amanda Bynes of famed Dear Ashley. That's me.

unknown 1:17:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:17:54

One of her best bits. Yeah, Ask Ashley.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:57

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_07 1:17:57

Okay, but do you remember Are You Afraid of the Dark? It was after Snick and it was very spooky.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:03

Uh that's still, yeah, that's a great show. I I love that show.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:06

It was the Are You Afraid of the Dark and Goosebumps Tandem for me?

SPEAKER_07 1:18:10

Wasn't Goosebumps Disney? That was like their rival. Do you remember So Weird? That show actually did scare me.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:17

That's what this movie reminds me of a little bit, is So Weird. And I actually re-watched it recently. I think it was like maybe a few years ago, maybe 2021, you know, pandemic, post-pandemic, if we want to call it that. It hits and it's still very bizarre. Yeah. It's still very strange. Not as much as obviously was you were a kid, but it's a vibe. If we were to like review horror TV shows, let's put So Weird in there because it needs to be revisited as a group.

SPEAKER_07 1:18:44

The theme song always creeped me out.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:46

The pink opaque in this movie. I know that there are a lot of parallels there for Buffy, but for me, it was giving Power Rangers.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:54

But for sure. Power Rangers and Buffy, for sure. I could see that definitely.

SPEAKER_07 1:18:58

But like the character design was very Power Rangers.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:01

Yeah. I think also, you know, it's interesting thinking of shows that we watched growing up as kids and ones that we really loved. But it's also interesting when you revisit some of the shows, just like this movie, and you watch them now, and you're like, what the fuck? This is not what I remembered at all.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:19

Yeah, no, that's fair. I think there are some that still hit for me, like Animaniacs, Freakazoid. Sure. 10 out of 10 animation. But there are a lot of other random ones. I don't know that maybe well, no, I know Courage the Cowardly Dog is actually very popular, but that's one that I maybe didn't really get fully when I was a kid either. I was just like, okay, this is not for me. I'm not the target demographic.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:41

Yeah. Now I'm thinking of like watching back, like so Save by the Bell, right? Like that. I remember as a kid, like, oh man, I love this show. You know, I'll watch it. And if you watch that show now, it fucking sucks. It literally sucks. The acting is poor.

SPEAKER_07 1:19:56

Damn. You know it's still good, Boyneets World. I watched it during 2020. Still very good. Still hits.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:04

Interesting.

SPEAKER_07 1:20:05

Very Caucasian of me.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:06

I feel like that show people have some really positive memories of. But then when you try to make a sequel show, it's not hitting.

SPEAKER_07 1:20:15

Nobody needs it.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:16

Yeah, nobody, nobody needs that. Same thing with Full House.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:18

Yeah, they tried to do that. Yeah, for sure. For sure.

SPEAKER_07 1:20:22

Do you remember Bump in the Night? With that little green claymation guy?

SPEAKER_05 1:20:25

Yeah. The little fucking claymation thing. Apparently it's on Tubi. There's two seasons of it.

SPEAKER_07 1:20:29

Yeah. Wow. Yeah, that creeped me out too because of the animation style. Interesting.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:34

Ooh, all real monsters. Classic.

SPEAKER_07 1:20:37

Oblina star. That like tranny four-legged teacher they had with the red lip and the four heels. Yeah. Who was she? What's her story? Look this up actually.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:49

What's her story?

SPEAKER_00 1:20:50

No, one that I look back on and challenge myself for ever enjoying was Sabrina, the Teenage Witch. Oh my god. Because at the time it was family-friendly. Was it ABC maybe? I feel like, but something like that. And you go back and you try to watch it, you're like, this was pure trash.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:03

Um, hold on. Salem was an icon.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:06

Well, aside from Salem.

SPEAKER_07 1:21:07

Salem is fantastic. So was Catherine Ray and the other one. Caroline Ray? No, I don't know. I don't know. The Moms.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:14

It really shows us everything we need to know about her then. But Sabrina the Teenage Witch, we also have Melissa Joan Hart in her Clear Cl Explains It All era. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:24

That was incredible. I also, maybe this is very particular, but I watched the N a lot growing up, and so obviously I saw Degrassi, of course. But I want to highlight this particular thing because I just saw Jared Leto and my in a 30 Seconds Tomorrow's concert recently, and I was obsessed with my so-called life. Like I'm talking hooked.

SPEAKER_07 1:21:47

I saw this on your Instagram story.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:49

Yeah, I was obsessed. So granted, seeing Jared Leto in person, you realize that he is a cult leader for sure. But I don't know. I feel like as a kid I was watching like shows that were probably just a smit above my age range. I wasn't so much watching a lot of the cartoons as much as I was watching Real World when I shouldn't have. I was watching like Wayne's Brothers when I shouldn't have, or like Martin, or definitely like Boy Meets World for sure. Or obviously being the nerd that I am, I was watching a lot of anime. Like I was watching like at the dead of night, like in Yasha feeling like, ooh, so cute. Or what's another one that I would think of?

SPEAKER_07 1:22:24

On Toonami.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:25

Yeah, like Toonami in general, for sure.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:28

Man, I don't know that I ever watched anime as a kid. I definitely stayed away from the live action stuff with a few exceptions, like Animorphs. I remember watching. That was a great time. The secret world of Alex Mack. Another great time.

SPEAKER_07 1:22:43

Alex Mack was a lesbian icon.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:45

Bringing it back. Really bringing it back.

SPEAKER_07 1:22:47

I think The Mystery Files of Shelby Woo.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:49

Yes. Female detective.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:52

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:53

Hell yeah. Oh, okay. I'm sorry. I'm really just remembering two things. One of them is very fucking obscure, but the non-obscure one, Rocco's Modern Life.

SPEAKER_06 1:23:04

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:05

Great show. Again, weird shit that happens in it. Animation style, also a little problematic.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:11

These cartoons, when we were growing up, are on a different level than what kids are getting these days.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:18

But you know what's one that's extremely famous? Is Spongebob. You watch some Spongebob episodes and you're like, oh, wait a minute.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:25

Yo, I'm fucking talking to kids these days, and they're like, I don't know if you watch or have you ever heard of Spongebob. Bitch, I was there when SpongeBob was written.

SPEAKER_07 1:23:33

Yeah, right. Spongebob has transcended the generations. We were there.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:38

We were there. We were there. Do not cite the deep magic to me, which is a good one. So funny.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:43

We had just a couple years apart on some of these, because these were a lot of the shows you're mentioning, shows that like my little brothers watched. And so I would end up watching them as a teenager because it was, you know, on in the background. But like some of them were ones that I watched too. Like Rock Rose Modern Life, that was definitely my era. You know, Real Monsters, obviously, but like Captain Planet. Hey Arnold, I was already a teenager. Um Angry Beavers is another one that's like I was already a teenager.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:06

I feel like I loved Angry Beavers. I can see no one else here did. That's fine. It was ugly.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:12

Johnny Bravo had such a crush on him when I was little.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:16

I saw a human just a few months ago in my place of work, and they looked like Johnny Bravo. It was honestly horrifying. Was he hot? No, not hot. Nobody should be proportioned that way.

SPEAKER_07 1:24:27

I don't know. I don't know. I still might. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:32

There's a random fucking show that I watched a few times, but I also inexplicably had an action figure about it. Has anyone else seen Street Sharks? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:42

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Vin Diesel.

SPEAKER_07 1:24:45

I only knew them from the figure. Earthworm Gym. Ew, ugly.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:49

Earthworm Gym, yeah. I was a big, I was a big He-Man fan back in the day. Gay. My parents got me these. I wish I kept them because I'd probably be fucking rich now. But they're like these collectible action figures that are like they were big and freaking cool and the fucking tiger, whatever. I can't even remember the tiger's name, but it was like this purple felt, and I was like, oh man, this is super cool. If I kept those, they had to have been worth money by now.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:12

What's actually killing me, and I know this is a series of like I've recently seen humans who look like cartoon characters, but just a couple weeks ago I was at Texas Roadhouse, and my waiter Spencer looked like He-Man. Not the physical shape, but just the haircut exclusively, which is not a good look.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:29

Oh man. The He-Man like live action movie Masters of the Universe.

SPEAKER_07 1:25:34

Oh, they did that?

SPEAKER_02 1:25:35

They did that, yeah. I forget if that was a 90s flick or an 80s flick, but they definitely did that.

SPEAKER_07 1:25:41

Remember Xena Warrior Princess? Oh yes. Oh my lord, lesbian icon. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:47

I feel like I I grew up watching Xena. I saw Xena and Buffy back to back, it feels like. Like my mom was hooked on those shows with how Great Time for Women in Television.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:58

Have you seen a show that you realize what is actually better than you remember? Because this happened to me when back in the day I was never really that into Pete and Pete. And now I look back at it, I'm like, first of all, I hate the name Pete Beast.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:11

Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:12

Okay, well, there's you gotta get over that because the song, like the title song for that show or whatever, is fantastic. It is so good. The adventures of Pete and Pete. And it's like the characters they had were just like the cameos they had, the number of amazing choices for cameos is phenomenal. And I kind of want to go back and re-watch this as an adult because when you watch clips, you're like, I was kind of missing out by not being more into this show.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:38

Well, when I saw this movie and I saw Pete and Pete, I was like, I haven't even thought of this in a lifetime, it feels like. So I'm right there with you. I feel like if there's any time to read a kit, it would be now.

SPEAKER_07 1:26:48

I mean the Pete and Pete twins, the brothers, they were both Pete and Pete. The other one was ugly. One was Danny Tamborelli, and the older one was kind of hot. Am I wrong?

SPEAKER_02 1:26:57

Maybe. I don't remember. I don't remember that much detail about the I don't remember them being hot.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:03

Yes. Yeah, well, not so much in the film now. But yeah, in a picture of the show.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:10

No, neither. No, neither. No to that. Both of them. No thanks.

SPEAKER_07 1:27:13

I think he was just an older boy. So I was like, oh.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:17

Invader Zim was like I mean, I was a teen by then, but that was hot topic galore. I mean, my cousin still to this day watches Invader Zim for funsies.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:27

Not that that's a shade to you, Marissa, but I just some saying, you know, like for some reason Invader Zim, again, is like an overlap on the demographic. Invader Zim gives big nightmare before Christmas energy in terms of like fandom and popularity. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:44

That's fair. That's fair. Again, hot topic.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:48

So yeah. Oh, yeah, the hot topic of it all. Cow and chicken. Oh completely fucked up devil that was in there. Oh yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:56

Devil was giving. These are titles I just have not heard in so many. Many years.

SPEAKER_07 1:28:01

Ed Ed, Ed, and Eddie have been. Ed, Ed, and Eddie. Oh my god. One of my least hate illustrated shows. Butter toast. Straw hey. They look so gross.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:12

Give me a show about the nuclear. No. No thanks. No.

SPEAKER_07 1:28:16

And everybody that liked that show was so awful. Sorry to everybody out there listening. We were not friends as children. If you watched that show, you were so mean to me. Honestly, it's true. Oh man.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:29

How about let me take it back further? Exosquad is a cartoon from the 90s. Exosquad. That when I look back at it, I'm like, it really wasn't that good. Same thing with Captain Simeon and the Space Monkeys. I do not remember that.

SPEAKER_07 1:28:42

You're reading off ChatGPT.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:44

I can't believe that. Well, again, this was a little bit before you all.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:48

The Sean and Mac might converge a little bit as the elder statesman of the show.

SPEAKER_07 1:28:53

What about Transformers Beast Wars?

SPEAKER_00 1:28:55

Beast Wars.

SPEAKER_07 1:28:56

Anybody black arachneo, where my fans are.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:00

Again, I'm obviously just gonna keep coming with these stupid fucking cartoons because I clearly had a type. But I really fucking loved bonkers.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:08

What the fuck was bonkers?

SPEAKER_05 1:29:09

Bonkers was a tune cat. Imagine a world in which all the Disney cartoons are side by side with real people.

SPEAKER_07 1:29:16

Oh no, he was kind of cute. Ah yes. He's kind of cute. It kind of gave me like Roger Rabbit vibes.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:21

Did you ever watch the Beetlejuice cartoon? Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:26

Absolutely. Nice.

SPEAKER_07 1:29:27

Oh yeah, there was a Ghostbusters cartoon. And they would always sell high-seat with Slimer on it.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:32

There's also a mask, like the mask, Jim Carrey in the series.

SPEAKER_07 1:29:38

Did they do a Mrs. Fire animated series? Because like everything got a chance.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:42

Let's go back to Gargoyles for a second, because that is one of the most underappreciated shows that has ever existed, cartoon or otherwise.

SPEAKER_07 1:29:48

All of those gargoyles were very hot.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:50

They were, they were.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:52

And there was a lot of Star Trek in that show, which I very much appreciate. Oh look at the cast for gargoyles. And don't mind if I do. It is so good. But there's a lot of you got Jonathan Frakes, I mean, boom, right there. We got Star Trek, Marina Certis, Star Trek. And I uh you could go further, and I think it goes further, but Kate Mulgrew, I think, was in Gargoyles, Avery Brooks was in Gargoyles, Brent Spiner. These are all big Star Trek names. So just saying, I think LeVar Burton also ended up probably being in Gargoyles as well. So that's just such a great show.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:23

That's wild. There's a show that this older guy actually was getting high and watching. I I don't want to go into the backstory of how I conversed with this dude because it's just way too long of a story. But this dude was like bringing up some old TV show that he watched as a kid and now he really enjoyed watching while he was like smoking weed in his garage, middle-aged, the HR puffin stuff from like the late 60s or whatever. Like that show, if you actually go back and watch anything from that show, whoever created that show had to have been trippin' fucking balls.

SPEAKER_05 1:30:56

I don't know about that. I think my boring equivalent of that would be when I like to order pizza and watch Goof Troop on Disney Plus.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:07

What?

SPEAKER_05 1:31:08

In like Pizza? I know this is a very weird specific thing. Have you ever like had some foods that just look better in an animated series than they actually ever really looked at? Yeah, like Krabby Patty. The pizza and Goof Troop I thought looked incredible.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:21

Yeah, the cheese was like pure melted lava goodness.

SPEAKER_07 1:31:28

It was a huge thing in what's that called? The turtles? The sewer turtles? Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:37

Do you remember that old Pizza Hut commercial where the dude was like taking a bite of his slice and the cheese that would just like it was just melty and stringy and it like followed him like across the room? I think maybe he was getting on a plane or something.

SPEAKER_07 1:31:53

It has to be a real country.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:54

That commercial is really why I still eat only Pizza Hut. Like I'm still there. True number one fact.

SPEAKER_07 1:32:01

Yeah. Mentally, we're all still there. Dang.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:04

Are there shows that you plan, like if you have kids one day, that you plan on showing them for a fact? Like you already know it.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:11

I'm kidding. I'm kidding. Did you say Glee? I'm kidding. That wasn't when I was an adult.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:16

Cartoons, cartoons. Or 90s shows in general, let's say. DuckTales. DuckTales for sure.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:21

Animaniacs, Pinky in the Brain, Scooby-Doo.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:24

Batman Beyond. Scooby-Doo. Batman Beyond. Batman Beyond.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:27

Batman Beyond, yeah. Batman the Animated Series. Superman the Animated Series. Yep.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:31

I for sure will be doing Teen Titans. It's an essential piece of literature and animated series. They need to understand what ships to ship, right? What romantic relationships need to be coveted and which aren't. They need to unpack all that. It's a great show.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:46

You know what I'm not going to show them? Little Bill. Little Bill.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:49

Well, that already. Oh, little Bill.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:52

Yeah, sorry.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:52

That took me a second. Definitely missed that. Don't the Bill Cosby cartoon. It's Bill Cosby's cartoon, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:58

Oh shit.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:00

Bill Cosby, anything is not getting shown to any children.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:04

All the kids need to see Recess, though.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:06

Recess, of course. Also, I'm gonna hit him with a little Madeline. I used to play the games when I was very little, and I thought it was so cute. Her and her little yellow hat. So that for sure will be one of them.

SPEAKER_05 1:33:19

Inspector Gadget as well. Inspector Gadget. Holy shit. I had a whole moment when I was about six years old surrounding Inspector Gadget.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:27

McDonald's had the toys, remember?

SPEAKER_05 1:33:29

Oh yeah, and they would assemble together. Not as kid friendly, I suppose. Well, you know, actually pretty kid friendly, but Mortal Kombat had an animated series for a long time and it was really good. Oh. Are you that sounds good?

SPEAKER_04 1:33:42

You're gonna show you know what? No. Hello, I'm not gonna actually. No, go ahead. You played Mortal Kombat as a kid and look at you now. So you're great. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:33:50

I love Mortal Kombat. It was my favorite game. I know. I know.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:53

So go off, Queen.

SPEAKER_05 1:33:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:55

Do that for you. Who did you?

SPEAKER_05 1:33:56

Would you like to judge me? Lu Kang. Oh, of course. Where you can tell me to judge Arsonia. Katana. It's always katana. Paris, I text you about how you and I are both two sides of the same fucking coin for this episode. And I think our Liu Kang katana pipeline is a very strong one.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:13

I agree. I also watched a lot of Big Comfy Couch when I was little. Because I was in dance class. So I just needed to be as flexible as her all the time. So I feel like that was that's a cute little thing to show kids. It's like an exercise. That's how they get you know, get the blood flowing.

SPEAKER_05 1:34:30

I am just really excited as I'm going through Google and looking up 90s TV shows. Holy shit, doesn't Darkwing Duck.

SPEAKER_07 1:34:37

You've brought it up in the episodes before. Yeah, you know. Find a way to bring up Darkwing Duck every episode.

SPEAKER_05 1:34:43

But I'm so excited to know how many of these shows are available for free right now on Tubi.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:49

I'm sure you can find out. I'm sure you can find a good amount of them for sure. Man, even outside of, and this may not even be all 90s, but even outside of cartoons in general, I feel like most CW shows are not holding up these days. Oh god knows. Yeah, like Seven Heaven, Dawson's Creek. Well, one Seventh Heaven, the dude's like a kiddie pedophile dude, so yeah, I can't really support that shit. That one's rough.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:16

Are we talking about CW or WB?

SPEAKER_05 1:35:18

Well, right. At the I think so at the time WB. Yeah, the whole fucking alphabet, whichever.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:23

I don't know, man. I maybe. I thought it was all CW. Maybe it's transitioned to CW at some point.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:29

In the 90s, it was WB, and before that it was my 33. So I used to know the lineup from 8 in the morning until 9.30 p.m. like a psychopath for Saturdays. I could tell you exactly when Martin was gonna when I knew all of them. All them shows.

SPEAKER_05 1:35:45

And this is exactly what trained you to be such a great Halloween horror nights planner and navigator last year.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:51

Look, and I'm already creating an itinerary that I will share with you guys. I'm I may not be going, but I'll be sharing the itinerary for what I suggest you all should be doing.

SPEAKER_05 1:36:00

I love that you min-max the experience. It's pretty great.

SPEAKER_04 1:36:03

I'd be a great project manager. This is my pitch, okay, for any listeners that are hiring. All right. This is my pitch, please.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:10

Oh man.

SPEAKER_04 1:36:11

No, but they're definitely not holding up. Although Charmed, I haven't I want to re-watch.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:15

Yeah, I don't know. It's one of those shows that's part of that WBCW stuff that you know. I guess you have to revisit and see if it holds up. I I do remember watching that show. I don't remember if it was great or not, but you never know.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:29

It started out with the Smiths, so obviously Thanks is gonna love it.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:33

Oh, the Smiths. That was I will be getting an Americano at some point.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:38

My high school girlfriend, that was our show, was Charmed.

SPEAKER_07 1:36:41

Ooh, good taste, Mac. Yes, in girls.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:44

That was the thing, you know, you hear that song come on, and you're just you're happy just sitting around watching TV.

SPEAKER_05 1:36:50

I don't know that I've ever watched Charmed actually, like in its entirety. Like I know what Charmed is. I've seen clips of Charmed, but I don't think I've ever really experienced it. I had an ex-girlfriend who introduced me to Pretty Little Liars, and I'm still obsessed.

SPEAKER_07 1:37:03

Yeah. Chris, have you watched Pretty Little Liars Summer School? Yes, I have. I finished the whole thing and I really enjoyed it. I have the last episode left. I'm savoring it because I don't want it to be done, and I don't think we're getting another season. Oh, that's tragic. We're the only people watching it.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:16

Oh, everybody included. I actually I need to go ahead and catch up. My bad.

SPEAKER_07 1:37:22

You do, so they can get picked up for season three.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:24

I'm just gonna throw this out there because we haven't mentioned it yet and it's definitely stood the test of time. The fucking Simpsons. Oh, yeah. This is a going, right? Yeah. That shit has been out for fucking ever.

SPEAKER_07 1:37:36

30 years, no?

SPEAKER_05 1:37:37

I think the thing for me is that it's such a fixture in society that I never consider it a childhood TV show. It's transcended. 1980.

SPEAKER_07 1:37:48

It's older than I am. And it's a Sagittarius.

SPEAKER_05 1:37:51

It's as old as I am.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:52

Well, South Park isn't as old, but it's in the realm-ish. It's adjacent-ish, 97.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:58

I remember, yeah, I remember when South Park came out and then went off the air and then came back.

SPEAKER_07 1:38:03

I'm not a fan of South Park. It used to be gross and nasty, but they've since turned highbrow and nasty. Family Guy, I did love it.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:14

Too ADHD for me.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:16

Family Guy. I think Family Guy is one of those shows that's like really I think it's well written, but it's very juvenile. You know what I mean? But I did enjoy it.

SPEAKER_05 1:38:24

I think it's really dropped off over the years. But yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:26

Yeah. Yeah. Talking about the CW and the WB takes me back to the time when Roswell and Smallville. Smallville.

SPEAKER_04 1:38:34

Holy shit. Love Smallville. I own every single season. I have a Funko Pop. I have a book.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:40

So that one held up for you. For sure.

SPEAKER_04 1:38:43

Actually, in a few weeks' time, there's a convention in Tampa where you can meet them. Am I thinking about it? Yeah. Duh.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:50

I had the biggest crush on Kristen Crook.

SPEAKER_04 1:38:53

Sure. I wanted to be Kristen Crook. I mean, who what girl didn't, you know? It's like Lana Lange. Incredible. That and Supernatural. Those were like still are very big parts of my childhood.

SPEAKER_07 1:39:04

Smallville. Is Lana Lang Lois Lane?

SPEAKER_00 1:39:06

It's the early girl who got in before Lois Lane got there, basically.

SPEAKER_05 1:39:10

But two different years.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:11

A high school sweetheart.

SPEAKER_05 1:39:12

Um okay, but isn't Smallville the show where it was revealed many years later, and by many years later I mean semi-recently that there was like a sex cult?

SPEAKER_04 1:39:22

Yeah, I was gonna say Alice and Mac is talking about yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:25

Oh. Was there really?

SPEAKER_04 1:39:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:28

But we don't talk about that.

SPEAKER_07 1:39:29

Talk about that. We don't talk about the sex cult, Chris. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:34

I was not familiar with that at all. Me neither. I had no idea. Same. This is news to me.

SPEAKER_07 1:39:38

You heard it here first, folks.

SPEAKER_05 1:39:40

If we had talked about it, they would have been found out sooner. Yeah. We need to talk about real issues, folks.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:46

Oh my gosh. First rule about sex club is you don't talk about sex club.

SPEAKER_07 1:39:52

30-minute B-sides. Okay, I think we can stop there. Oh, we can trim some fat. Listen to the beef sides on 1.5 times speed. That's how I rewatched this movie. The movie was still slow on 1.5. Oh, I should stop recording.

SPEAKER_05 1:40:08

Are we gonna get matching tattoos in October? Maybe.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:12

My god, if I can find that color, I am so down. It just pops.

SPEAKER_04 1:40:16

I'm sure Katie can do it. I'm going to interject right the fuck now. Because we were supposed to all get matching tattoos last October. And who's the only motherfucker in this entire cast that has the tattoo? Me.

SPEAKER_05 1:40:30

Well, you did it without telling us that you were gonna do it. True.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:34

You went on your own. Not on the meetup. You weren't on the meetup when you got it. You just went and did it afterwards. It didn't include anybody. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 1:40:44

Whatever. I expect our logo tattooed on all of you promptly. Mac, you were pretty close. Don't even fucking try it.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:55

Wait, let me see what at this point we'll never get tattoos.

SPEAKER_04 1:40:58

So it's gonna send you a picture, Pear, so I can't.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:00

I I apologize in advance, but it just ain't gonna happen ever.

SPEAKER_05 1:41:03

It's the attempt to wrap the armor on the microphone. That's really difficult.

SPEAKER_04 1:41:07

I know it became really difficult. I'm like, why? I can't do this right now. Just a nice one.

SPEAKER_05 1:41:10

It's not a good one. But porque no los dos.

SPEAKER_04 1:41:16

I know I'm not the only one, okay?

SPEAKER_05 1:41:18

There's no way that you tell me that you see I've I've never fucking really gotten with constellations, constellations. Not consolation prizes, Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:27

I mean, I can point out the dipper situation. I don't know about all the constellations. It also just depends on where you are. There's certain places that the stars are much more visible for whatever reasons. Clear skies, elevation, things like that. It really depends. And also if you have a telescope, that also helps quite a bit.

SPEAKER_05 1:41:50

Yeah, there are layers here of steps, effort, requirements, prerequisites that I'm just not interested in pursuing. Education.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:59

Got it, got it.

SPEAKER_05 1:42:00

Imagination, spatial reasoning. Extrapolation.

SPEAKER_07 1:42:06

Implication across the nation. Okay. Do we know the significance of it being Fred Durst? Was that like a choice?

SPEAKER_04 1:42:17

The nostalgia factor. So Fred Durst, the adventures of Pete and Pete, and then Ashley Benson, the Buffy cameo, or like the big 90s things. I didn't even realize that was Fred Durst until I saw the credits roll, and then I was like, I did it all for the Nookie?

SPEAKER_07 1:42:36

I'm just like, does he have a trans kid or something? Is that why he wanted to do this?

SPEAKER_04 1:42:40

We should Google it. I have no idea.

SPEAKER_07 1:42:42

No, I think that just says it's nostalgia and novelty.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:45

Yeah, maybe he was just recruited.

SPEAKER_04 1:42:46

He's like, Oh, I guess I'm free.