350: Hell House LLC Origins: The Carmichael Manor (2023)

SPEAKER_04 0:04

I want my baby back, baby big.

SPEAKER_01 0:10

Spooky season greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hackerslash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. Stay here. Use the camera. If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack.

SPEAKER_04 0:26

A total joke. A waste of time.

SPEAKER_01 0:28

Or a slash.

SPEAKER_04 0:29

Totally killer. Unintended.

SPEAKER_01 0:31

We believe horror is for everyone, and at such a rating of these movies with a perspective we gain from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris. I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast. This week I'm joined by the Superfly Space Guy Mac.

SPEAKER_04 0:44

It's a little small.

SPEAKER_01 0:45

The classic horror carnour Sean.

SPEAKER_04 0:47

I told you a banana wasn't gonna be filling.

SPEAKER_01 0:50

And the paranormal paramour, Binx. I'm not much of a sloth. This week we're wrapping up a fountain footage franchise surrounding a haunt attraction where people have either mysteriously vanished or perished.

SPEAKER_04 1:02

And remember to stick around for our B-sides at the end of this episode where we dive into some ridiculous conversation about horror villains unionizing. This content is usually for patrons and Apple Podcast subscribers, but these are free sides all the way through Halloween, so stick around.

SPEAKER_01 1:18

Before we get down to all that business, though, we have some follow-up.

SPEAKER_02 1:21

Let's follow up on some stuff, multiple stuffs right now, in fact. So we had a special little thing going on with Hellhouse LLC. We wanted to know what you all thought of it. 26% of you hacked it, and surprisingly enough, to me, 74% of you slashed it.

SPEAKER_04 1:37

Come on. Yeah, it was like the first one is a good found footage horror film.

SPEAKER_00 1:42

It is so good. It is good. And I only appreciate it more and more, it seems, as the films go on.

SPEAKER_02 1:48

Well, uh, we have some comments on social media from some of our listeners. Uh Rosio says, Can't even explain my love for this movie. I've made so many people watch it.

SPEAKER_04 1:57

Okay, yeah. You know, it took me forever to watch this movie, and no one forced me to watch it until this podcast.

SPEAKER_01 2:03

I have a distinct memory of when this movie first came out. My older brother Danny talked about it being really scary, and not much gets to him. So I remember thinking, like, oh shit, man, this must be really good. And I was not disappointed. But I don't think it's something that I've like strongly been forcing people to watch. Although now I think, should I?

SPEAKER_02 2:26

Well, Martin says, bad acting, bad story, it would not grip me.

SPEAKER_04 2:30

Man, Martin. I mean, that's kind of the point sometimes with these found footage films, is the acting is just strange, but it's kind of what it's all about, you know? You gotta be into it.

SPEAKER_02 2:41

It's a vibe, and yeah, you either have it or you don't, I guess. Finally, here, Jackson says, Cool found footage that builds and delivers pretty well. The clowns be scary.

SPEAKER_04 2:51

They do be scary.

SPEAKER_00 2:52

The clowns be very scary.

SPEAKER_02 2:54

Yep. Them clowns, they're just clowns to me. All right, that was thing number one. Let's talk about thing number two, House of Horror. We did a bonus episode for this. We collaborated with House of Horror Haunted Carnival, a haunted house and carnival in Miami, Florida, for their early preview night last week. So the two of you, Chris and Banks, you got to talk all things haunt-related with their co-owner and their art and scenic director, Tony and Andrew, and deep dive into how House of Horror integrates horror films and storytelling into their haunts. So I know obviously you're going to talk about it in length, but did you have fun?

SPEAKER_00 3:26

It was so much fun.

SPEAKER_01 3:27

It was an absolute blast. And I cannot tell you how much I adored getting to have that conversation, not only with them, but also with Binks, because I feel like there are just so many moments where we just had little like looks at each other, like, yeah, we were talking about doing like a quiet place, completely silent style haunt. It was very validating. But also it gives you this really incredibly, I think, balanced perspective on haunts as a business and haunts as love and passion for Halloween and horror. And it was so incredible getting to dive into their minds and see not only what they're doing to raise House of Horror and the bar for it this year, but also just how much of a love letter it is to just the art of scares and the art of fear. But I also learned a term. Pinks. I feel like we need merch that says booho.

SPEAKER_00 4:18

Yes, a boo hole.

SPEAKER_05 4:20

What the fuck is a booho?

SPEAKER_00 4:21

Do you guys want to take a guess as to what that is?

SPEAKER_01 4:24

I don't even think we should explain. I think that we should just tease it.

SPEAKER_05 4:26

Oh Lord.

SPEAKER_00 4:27

Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_01 4:28

You gotta listen to the episode to find out. But a booho.

SPEAKER_02 4:31

Oh, I can't wait to find out this shit. So there's good news, Sean. The episode is live today. And for any listeners in South Florida, you can actually check out House of Horror right now, as its grand opening was yesterday and it'll be going on until October 31st. You can get 10% off your tickets using the code hackerslash. We have a link to get them in our show notes, and you can follow House of Horror on social media at House of Horror Miami.

SPEAKER_01 4:58

Sean, there's no way you're escaping this spooky season without going with Bing Some May.

SPEAKER_04 5:02

You have to. You have to, Sean. Yeah. Everything I've heard, it sounds like a fun place, so we'll make it happen.

SPEAKER_02 5:08

Well, with that, the last piece of our follow-up, we want to welcome some new patrons, Jane and Zach. Welcome to the family. Your clown costume is over there in the corner, but you have to put it on in the dark and then creepily walk out to greet the rest of us.

SPEAKER_01 5:22

Oh, that's spooky.

SPEAKER_02 5:23

You know it. And that's our follow-up.

SPEAKER_01 5:25

Well, in 2015, writer and director Steven Cognetti introduced audiences to the infamous haunted hotel that held dark secrets buried deep within its walls. The story continued with the Avidon Hotel in 2018 and then Lake of Fire in 2019, expanding the world surrounding the original site. Now Cognetti takes us back in time with a new chapter, one that delves into the mysteries of a long vacant family home. This latest film explores what happens when a group of cold case investigators checks into a house where a family was brutally murdered. They're looking for answers about an unsolved mystery, but after four nights, they're never heard from again. And what's discovered on their footage turns out to be even more unsettling, some may say, than what was captured on the original Hellhouse LLC tapes. This week we're talking about Hell House LLC Origins, the Carmichael Manor. Who's seen this one before?

SPEAKER_04 6:21

Okay, well, back when we did review Hellhouse LLC 3, The Lake of Fire, not that long ago, I decided that I was gonna watch the first two installments along with it back to back. So now I know why, because I knew watching them like that, they were all gonna blend together, which is probably why I remember talking about all of them so much. But I did not watch this one for whatever reason. I don't know why. I watched the first three, didn't watch this one, so I found myself back in the Hellhouse universe.

SPEAKER_00 6:52

Yeah, whereas I had seen Hellhouse LLC earlier on this year. I've been watching all of them with a close friend of mine because it's our first time watching them all. And we had actually started watching the franchise of our own volition. We hadn't even planned to visit this franchise yet when we were planning out our you know our recordings. And so when it came down to Lake of Fire, at that point, we had known that we were going to do that episode and then do origins. So I had told him, like, okay, well, let's power through Hellhouse L C three. We'll do Origins right after. But Lake of Fire left its imprint. So we were a little scared to go into this one, I'm not gonna lie, but I'm finally, you know, we've arrived, it was watched, and thoughts were had.

SPEAKER_02 7:33

Sean and I were talking about this before recording, before you two jumped on, and I was like, okay, I'm writing my notes up. I've only seen the first movie. And then I was like, wait a second, I need to go fact check myself here, and popped into the episode where we reviewed number two, and I was on it and had seen it and had thoughts. Wow. I was not on the episode for the third, but I don't know if that says kind of anything about the movies themselves.

SPEAKER_01 7:57

Listen, the family that suffers together suffers together, and I think we need to suffer together.

SPEAKER_06 8:03

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 8:04

Here's the thing Lake of Fire, Lake of Bullshit, really left its mark. I mentioned moments ago how this franchise was a fall from grace. I've seen every movie up until this, but this just came out last year, so I hadn't bothered because of how bad two and three were. This is genuinely a repeat of the Saw franchise for me, where I loved the first one, saw the second one, thought, oh, that's unfortunate. Maybe the third one's great. Oh, that's even worse for me, hate it, and then just stopped pursuing anything else. So going into this, there was a cynical part of me that didn't expect much at all. I'll admit that. But then I heard great things about it. Not enough to overhype the movie, but enough to think, huh, maybe they realize they fucked up.

SPEAKER_04 8:53

Yeah, I think it's fair because just given the track record of this franchise, you just can't be expecting this one to be super good if we're being honest. Do you know what I mean? Just given the track record. But I also didn't go into this one knowing a whole lot about it. Hell, I didn't know shit about it. I feel like I was expecting maybe to get some more backstory to the lore given the name origins of it all, right? Are we gonna see more about how this Abaddon hotel came to be, or are we gonna get to some maybe further backstory on this Tully guy? I don't know. I don't know, but didn't go into it expecting a whole lot other than not feeling great based on the track record.

SPEAKER_00 9:32

And for me, I felt like a little bit of the opposite in a sense, because I had heard such positive reviews about Origins. I mean, the ratings on Shutter Alone, like that's where I watched it, and so I saw the rating was pretty high. I'm a big letterboxed user. Mike Flanagan was praising this movie, so I was like, damn, okay, it's maybe something went very fucking wrong and they fixed it all, and they're actually gonna be able to revive this, right? So I expected really good scares. I expected some good exposition that to me the previous films had really just lost control over the dread the tension was gonna be at an all-time high. All of these things that it seems like the second and the third one had continued to really fail at time and time again. And like you were mentioning, the origin story too, right? I was like, well, I know that the second and third just lose control of exposition and story. The lore is insane, and I feel like if it wasn't for you explaining the lore a little bit more in the third movie that when we did the review, I honestly wouldn't know a damn thing. I would have needed a revisit of that origin real quick. So that's kind of what I was expected, and I wasn't mad at it. Most origin story films feel a little repetitive and unnecessary at times. So this was one that I was actually looking forward to because I felt like I needed it.

SPEAKER_01 10:51

Binks, I just want to remind you, and I feel like I I I want to say this to you as someone who loves you and respects you.

SPEAKER_00 10:59

What are you about to fucking say?

SPEAKER_01 11:01

I just want to remind you that people also said good things about in a violent nature.

SPEAKER_00 11:05

You're right, and this is where I know what this stems from. My therapist would say that this is me pulling a Chris and seeing the potential. Not your therapist referencing me.

SPEAKER_05 11:16

Nice. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 11:18

Uh no, but I just I feel like I I wanted to give this one a shot. And I give some films that even my friend, right? He was like, This film's probably not gonna be that good. It's probably not gonna be that good. And I was like, no, no, look at the ratings. I'm an idiot.

SPEAKER_01 11:34

No, you're not an idiot, but I do admire your optimism. That's good. We need more of that joy in the world. It's pure.

SPEAKER_02 11:40

Oh my, I don't have it. I had to base this off of my very limited experience with anything that is found footage. So I expected this to be poorly written, poorly shot, poorly acted, and just a silly haunt with too many cuts, deliberately bad camera work, and perhaps a meandering, nonsensical plot. Kind of like you've gotten in the past, but that's what my expectation was, as is every found footage movie ever.

SPEAKER_00 12:04

I forgot that you really detest found footage films.

SPEAKER_01 12:07

Yeah, it's his, you know, whole thing.

SPEAKER_02 12:09

It's my shtick.

SPEAKER_01 12:10

Yeah, it's it's the whole Mac experience, really. That's right. But here's the thing, though. We talked about the found footage of it all. I know that I talked some shit about the last two movies in this franchise, but I really do enjoy found footage.

SPEAKER_04 12:24

Me too.

SPEAKER_01 12:24

It's a good thing for me. And then honestly, found footage and lesbians. Yes. Thank you. Finally, at long last, we're given what I've been asking for this whole time. But I mean, lesbians aside, this movie starts off with what I feel is much better exposition and stage setting for the rest of the film than we got in the previous two movies. It circles right back to I think doing as almost as good of a job as the first film does, starting off its story. And I will say there is a disconnect on the sound. I'll talk about that more in the spoiler zone where we can actually dive into the specifics of these scenes. But for as much of an upgrade as parts of this movie feel like, it's almost like it went a little bit too far because the quality is too good and too consistent for there to not be visible microphones. It's as if there's a secret fourth person who is the boom operator in the room. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 13:25

So yeah, I feel you.

SPEAKER_01 13:26

I also felt like this measure of disappointment with some of the ham fisting we get about the previous films. And Mac, this is I think what really does it for me with your interaction with the franchise thus far, because there's some ham-fisted insertion of like, do you know the Abaddon Hotel? And it's like, what the fuck is this? The muffin man, bro? Do you know the Abaddon? It burned down to the ground.

SPEAKER_02 13:52

I'm not surprised. I think that's powerful the course, to be honest. This while watching this, honestly, the thing that I felt the most was that I think a documentary on staplers would have been more up my alley and would have captured more of my attention.

SPEAKER_05 14:05

I'm sorry. What? A documentary on staplers. Staplers.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

I could have never expected you to say that, and that was really iconic. I'm still trying to wrap my head around that. My brain was just stapled together. I gotta say, the best way I can summarize my feelings towards this film is that it felt like it was trying to rise from its own ashes based on its previous failures. And although you can do that, the reality is that doesn't mean that you don't see its scars, right? So I felt like it was trying to do things that were meant to convince me that this is a really good film that supersedes its predecessors, when in reality it was just doing the bare minimum. And it actually did the opposite for me, where it convinced me that the first film is just better and better and better with time. And we see this a lot in franchises, right? I was feeling like I was on the fence for a bit towards the end, though. I almost wanted it to be a standalone, but then it featured the clowns, and so which we see in the even in the movie poster, it's got its nods to the previous films. I feel like if it was just a standalone and didn't really integrate any of those components, maybe I would have liked it a little bit more and I would give it more credit, but it just continues to be a film that can't decide what it wants to be. Do you want to be a standalone with a little bit of an Easter egg, or do you want to actually continue with this unnecessary dribble about the Abaddon Hotel?

SPEAKER_04 15:33

Yeah, the film itself, I feel like there's parts of it that feels like a departure from the first three films, and parts of it that kind of feels a little bit the same. And I also think this movie was way more interesting than the last two films that we got. This one didn't feel to me as cheap as the last two films by any means. I still think the first one's gonna be top, but I thought this one had some creepy moments. I think it was even able to build some suspenseful moments, but I think overall it definitely was more interesting. This one felt like it was a more mature found footage film in a way, and felt much more fluid than the last two films that we got.

SPEAKER_01 16:17

Okay, I want to give you my theory on why that is, though.

SPEAKER_04 16:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 16:21

It's because this is what the Blair Witch project would have been were it made in 2023.

SPEAKER_04 16:28

Maybe, yeah, okay, maybe.

SPEAKER_01 16:29

I mean, realistically, you have people who go out to fucking hang out at a haunted spot to investigate, right, to complete some kind of video production project. They go out to some locals, the locals are like, yeah, I know that place, you're fucking crazy for going there. And then you have some bitches in the woods.

SPEAKER_00 16:50

The reality is that's something that had me feel disappointed by this film. Because is that not also Hellhouse LLC 2? You know, this film continues to some extent. I don't want to take it that far because the previous films are like more on the business side of things of having a haunt. But I believe it's the second one in particular that is very much people fucking around and finding out, and that's what this is. It's just in a different setting. So I was disappointed that it was still, in terms of like the bare bones, the skeleton of this film, feels very copy and paste, although surprised that there were certain elements that didn't feel as cheap as the previous ones. I agree with you, Sean. There was definitely some creepier moments, certain elements of found footage films that they've integrated into this fourth installment that I think evoke like really good fear tactics, but I expected it earlier on because again, this is something that this is a franchise that exists in modern day that isn't Blair Witch. Like you could have done certain things that I don't want to reveal just yet, but you could have done some of these things in the previous films to make it better. You just decided to do it now because you probably have enough money to do it, I guess. I hope, it seems like.

SPEAKER_01 17:58

Okay. But here's the thing though, I don't know that it's completely fair because I think this movie takes a departure from the Avaddon Hotel, and it does things that I agree with Sean are way more interesting. And I think it's well, we know that it's simultaneously a prequel and a sequel to the original film. And obviously in the two prior films before it, but I think it fleshes out its story in a nice way. Do I still give a fuck about the cult of it all? No. It's interesting. And what it also does is manage to defy some tropes. Every haunted house film we see that it's some dude bringing his family into a haunted house.

SPEAKER_04 18:45

Oh, right, right.

SPEAKER_01 18:46

And then refusing to leave. I really enjoyed the composition of the main characters we have in this film. And while, yes, we get some weird shit that goes on in there, I thought overall it was really refreshing to f at last not have some fucking guy who wants to go into the Abaddon Hotel and make money off of it. Jesus.

SPEAKER_04 19:07

Thank God. We had to break that cycle for sure. I think that was one of the more surprising things for me when watching this movie was just the timeline because yeah, it does take place afterwards, but also is an origin story of sorts. It's like this mixture of things, and I kind of was surprised about that because I didn't know what to expect. But given origins, I thought we were just going before everything, just by default. But my biggest disappointment, and I don't know that it's a huge thing, but and I can elaborate on it later, but just the choice of some of the not necessarily the found footage style that they carried over, but the documentary style that they brought it over that I just didn't think worked in this film.

SPEAKER_01 19:50

That's interesting. I like the documentary style, but I was for sure disappointed in just some people and their acting.

SPEAKER_02 19:58

Yeah, the acting isn't great, but I'll say that the that documentary style is the probably the biggest surprise for me here because it is very much in the line of in recent years, all of the docuseries that you get on Netflix and Hulu and all the other streaming services, it fits in very much. The way that it's shot, the kind of way that they pace some of it and even transition into other clips feels very much like current docuseries. And I'm kind of here for that. It was a pleasant surprise for me, especially compared to discussions on a news forum that we get in one of the previous films.

SPEAKER_04 20:34

Maybe I'm just missing that one old dude that was doing the interviews in the first couple of films.

SPEAKER_02 20:40

I will say earlier today, I was walking through a hardware store and they were selling these like, I don't know, 10 foot, 15-foot maybe like clown animatronics things that move and they have glowing eyes. They're silly and it's cute for Halloween and whatever, but I think that's about the same level of scary as this movie is to me.

SPEAKER_00 20:58

Yeah, I think that there are definitely some great scenes that will disturb you if you are a little scaredy cat like me. It definitely felt a little tense, but I didn't feel nearly as scared as I have the first film. The second one got me a little bit more actually than this one. Some I appreciated and thought were eerie. There was like one or two times where I did clench my fists, like, okay, something's gonna happen. Maybe this is gonna be the big scream. But it's not like I was out here screaming like, oh hell no, or anything like that. Like I usually do. It was not it was nothing like that.

SPEAKER_01 21:31

Okay. That's interesting. When you first started that sentence, I thought you were gonna go a direction of like, I mean, if you're a scaredy cat, you might be disturbed. And when you said like me, I was like, Oh man, she really fucking got got Granted.

SPEAKER_00 21:44

Let's if we look at the timeline of me being on this podcast, I think I've started to slowly but surely get a little bit more desensitized. But there's also still gonna be still a cat, less scaredy. Exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 21:57

Mm-hmm. Okay, I have a confession about this movie. In particular. Did you get caught? When I watched the first movie, I distinctly remember watching it home alone in the first apartment I ever had completely to myself. And I remember feeling so uneasy with that fucking clown. And clowns don't get me. I'm not generally someone who is afraid of clowns or has an issue with clowns, anything of that sort. But maybe it's because my brother had told me that it was scary. I remember the feeling that Hellhouse LC gave me. And when I was watching this, I was in Allie's apartment alone in the dark. So a familiar place, but not home. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_06 22:45

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:45

And there were moments in this movie where I did feel my chest tighten. And I do not get that often. That's very rare for me. And I think maybe it was because of how invested I was in Margo and Rebecca together that I think it made it feel a little bit more relatable for me. So when we get the spooks, I was a little bit more invested. I was a little bit more bought in and believing in this movie.

SPEAKER_04 23:12

I'm with you on some of these feelings. I think it's not like a super frightening film, but it gives you that kind of eerie vibe where, you know, if you are watching it late at night in the dark or whatever by yourself, and then maybe the movie's over, you have to pause it and walk across the house to the kitchen in the dark. You just got this kind of like, ooh, what's, you know, that let me look around a little bit, you know, let me look behind me or down the hall or something. But in terms of which one of this whole franchise is the most frightening, I honestly think it is kind of a tough one between the first one and this one. Although the first Hellhouse film was creepy in its own way, the lack of answers and overall mystery surrounding the film also added to the effectiveness of that film. And this one, Hellhouse Origins, it had some of that same feeling from the first one, but it really added in some genuinely creepy moments and really built on some of the dread and even threw in some decent jump scares.

SPEAKER_00 24:08

Shared that, and I just want to run it back in terms of what I've said and be a little bit forthright. I recognize that I probably was less scared. And by probably I mean like 85% certain that I was less scared because I have seen all of these movies with someone. Because I'm pretty sure that initially when we started watching the film, we actually had to stop and because we had other things that we had to do. And he had asked me if I was gonna go and watch the rest of the film by myself, and I told him absolutely not. I'm not gonna do that. So this is honesty hour, and that's probably why.

SPEAKER_01 24:43

Binx, thank you for sharing and living your truth with us. This is a safe space.

SPEAKER_02 24:48

But I just I feel like I don't know, I'm surprised. I'm really surprised that it's been that effective for all of you because I just feel like it's a rehashed formula that we've gotten over and over. Clowns are creepy. And just found footage is to me so played out. And this movie is not an exception to that rule. It was not scary in any way, it just felt like all the other stuff that we've seen done in this style. You've already mentioned, Chris, that the conceit to this film is basically the conceit to every other found footage where people screw around and find out. And also, it reminds me of X-Men Origins. And we all saw what happened to Deadpool in that film. Okay. So I think using origins in your title is setting yourself up for being just re-cooked trash from another restaurant.

SPEAKER_01 25:39

Well, you know, there's no accounting for taste. I still think it's fun.

SPEAKER_02 25:45

But it it doesn't feel fresh to me though, even if it's fun.

SPEAKER_01 25:48

Okay, trash from another restaurant. What are some chain restaurants, Mac? And I want to see if I can follow you on this metaphor.

SPEAKER_02 25:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:54

What are some restaurants that you're thinking of? Give me an example.

SPEAKER_02 25:57

So imagine somebody from Chili's goes to an Applebee's and takes trash out of their dumpster and then cooks it again, and then they go, Here is an origins film. Go for it.

SPEAKER_01 26:09

Okay. I thought you meant the metaphorical trash and not the literal trash. I thought you were gonna say, like, their appetizers are basically the same because these restaurants are the same. And then I was gonna say, Well, still fucking catch me at chilies, having their boneless buffalo wings because they're not fucking great, but they're edible and it's fun.

SPEAKER_00 26:26

Those honey Chipotle chicken crispers, okay.

SPEAKER_05 26:29

Now we're out here defending chilies.

SPEAKER_00 26:31

And the and the skillet queso, wait, we also can't provide too much free ad space for chilies, okay? Chilies, where's the sponsorship?

SPEAKER_05 26:39

I want my baby book, baby book.

SPEAKER_01 26:41

I feel God in this chilies tonight.

SPEAKER_04 26:43

Wow. I will say though, I really dug the way this movie took some crucial pieces from the lore of the first three films and almost incorporated them into its own story, you know, and giving us some kind of origin story. And even though it feels like a bit of a stretch, and the amount of added backstory and lore added to this film, I really think this could have been an entirely different movie, separate from the Hellhouse universe, and it would have been fine. They could have made this a separate thing, it didn't even have to be Hellhouse, and it probably would have stood on its own. The formula is, like you said, Mac and Chris, even like it's played out. Like we have seen it before, but they execute it pretty well. I think the story itself that they gave was pretty I I know, I think it was kind of original in some ways. I think they gave themselves the opportunity to create their own story while also even to an extent opening the door for more additions to this franchise if someone chose to do so, because now they're not just like stuck, they can carry on.

SPEAKER_01 27:50

Yeah, this movie is original within the context of its franchise.

SPEAKER_06 27:56

Right.

SPEAKER_01 27:56

It's not original within the context of found footage, it's not original in the context of horror at large or even just cinema at large. But for this to be a way to connect some jumper cables to the franchise and give it the jump start it needed, yeah. This is in some ways someone falling down a fucking cliff and it grabs onto this one thin little branch to keep from dying. That's what this movie is. This movie is the cliffside branch of the franchise.

SPEAKER_04 28:29

There's a will, there's a way.

SPEAKER_01 28:30

Exactly. There's not a lot that's gonna be new and refreshing for you know those of you who've seen a thousand found footage films or a thousand horror films, but it does take a new approach to the lore of its story, the lore of its franchise, also connecting the dots. And some of its wings and misses, I'll admit that. Hellhouse LLC, I think, is best when you don't know everything. It it's best within its mystery. So there's a a couple things that are you know over explained, but I think this still is good to stand on its own as like this is still good to stand on its own.

SPEAKER_00 29:11

Both of you are really doing your best. And I appreciate both of your takes in terms of defending its originality, and it is giving me something to think about. For me, I'm a little stuck on whether its origin story of it all worth it. I think that the origin story of it all is not what you expect, and as a result, it will starkly disappoint you. And what this movie feels like to me is its attempt to revitalize itself in the franchise, which was extremely needed. And I'm not saying that it didn't do that, right? I want to go back to like my analogy earlier of like it's like a phoenix from the ashes, it's just that the phoenix is a little looking a little ugly, and so that's what this film is to me. You know, it's a new setting, the circumstances are a little different. I do like your take, Chris, in terms of how changing its main characters, it's not a man taking his family to a haunted house anymore. That's true. That this is a very big departure of that, but it's I'm stuck on this origin thing. And I felt like I spent the entire movie waiting for something that didn't end up actually happening, and when we get a big reveal, it's just like, oh, that's the origin story. That's kind of how I felt. It's a stretch.

SPEAKER_02 30:26

Yeah, I think you get to the end of some films and you think, oh MG, what just happened? This movie leaves you feeling like, oh, it's over. What happened? Did anything happen?

SPEAKER_00 30:34

Exactly. Yes, that's exactly how I felt. I I literally scratched my head, like, wait a second, and then I even rewound it and I was like, oh, that's that. That's what just happened. No one asked for the kind of exposition that's provided in this ending and this big reveal. And I feel like there's not enough investment with certain characters for you to feel the impact of this ending. At least that's how I felt.

SPEAKER_01 30:57

Yeah, I can see that this ending is not great. There are parts of it that I do enjoy. So I think with the last moment of the film, I really enjoy. I like overall the direction that it goes, but there is a large chunk of the ending where I'm like, all right, I get it, let's move this along.

SPEAKER_04 31:14

Yeah, I think the problem is that the ending probably isn't super needed. You know what I mean? Like they could have done something different. I think it is one of those movies where they're trying to do a more sinister type ending, you know, the big reveal in the third act leading up to the final moments and that reveal and the different things like that. It it's trying to add this haunting element. And I don't know if it was the most successful way to do it, but I know I mentioned it earlier, but it really does add enough new lore to open it up for future options. So it's just kind of like a hit or miss kind of thing for me. It wasn't the best ending. I wasn't like super mad at it. It was kind of just like, eh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 31:52

Well, I'm excited to see how the meh okay translates to an actual rating. But before we get there, Sean, how would you describe the gore score?

SPEAKER_04 32:01

Well, I wouldn't say that there is like a ton of gore in this movie. I think this movie definitely had more blood and overall grotesque or disturbing visuals than any of the other films in this franchise. It was still only quick flashes of those disturbing visuals or flesh wounds and bleeding eyes and things like that. So either way, I'm still giving this one a low gore score.

SPEAKER_01 32:24

And what about the animal report?

SPEAKER_00 32:26

Animals are not harmed in the Carmichael Manor.

SPEAKER_01 32:28

Well, let's go ahead and get into our readings. Hell House LLC Origins, the Carmichael Manor from 2023. Is it a hack or a slash?

SPEAKER_02 32:37

Well, let me get the obvious out of the way. I think it's you know apparently no secret that I have a strong distaste for found footage films or fake documentaries outside the context of comedies specifically. This film is no exception to that rule. Everything just feels cheesy from the dialogue to the attempt at in-universe mythology. These sorts of films seem lazy to me, which is crazy considering how much work must go into making them. The filmmakers have to work hard to make the film appear badly acted, badly shot, and badly edited, and I wish they had just spent the same amount of effort just producing some decent storytelling using exactly the same premise. It was just an absolute bore that was a chore to follow along with, so it's a hack from me.

SPEAKER_04 33:18

And you know, I gotta admit, I was not super hopeful going into this one based on how the last two installments in this franchise went. This one took literally everything that was creepy from the earlier films, and it did all that to some extent, and I think it even threw in some more of its own stuff, some more jump scares. And as cheap as those jump scares were, I thought they were fairly effective. It's just the way they executed some of the stuff that we have seen before, I thought was just executed the right way. I think this film was able to create some tense and suspenseful moments that allowed me to really get into the film in those moments. It really felt like this perfect blend of, you know, you've got the Hellhouse LLC, the first one, right? You've got some elements of the Blair Witch project, you definitely have some paranormal activity elements in there, and you could even throw something like The Last Broadcast in there as well, which I know I mentioned from previous films, but it felt like a blend of all of these and just kind of learning from all of these found footage films that have come before it. And I actually found myself having a pretty good time, even with the lore and getting into this backstory a little bit as the film was progressing. I don't know that I necessarily like where it landed, but I do like what it was trying to do. I think Hellhouse LLC origins really brought me to the Carmichael Manor, and despite its questionable acting, it had a compelling narrative. So I don't know. I loved how they were able to add some depth to the lore and really turning the Carmichael Manor into its own character in a way with a dark past. That's how it felt. This Carmichael Manor itself felt like its own entity, its own character. And I don't know that it's my favorite in the franchise, you know, definitely not over the first one, but it's gonna probably be the best one since the first one. And I'll happily check out of the Abaddon Hotel for this one and grab a room at the Carmichael Manor because I think it's worth a watch. I think it's a slash.

SPEAKER_00 35:22

Meanwhile, I'm here thinking that this franchise has taken quite the slippery slope into the lake of fire. Okay. The thing is that Origins for me was supposed to be this glimmer of hope. And I felt like the hype going into this watch had me convinced it would be worth the pain of the second and third film. And I'm honestly not thinking that's actually the case. Ultimately, this film is an improvement, but if we're honest with ourselves, it's mid, it's unnecessary. And more importantly, to me, it feels a little bit rinse and repeat. There are areas of improvement that are vastly better. Like I feel like with a smaller cast, that some of them can actually act, while others still definitely can't. You know, there's room for improvement. There's room for you to feel like, okay, this is getting better. This is getting better. But ultimately, this lackluster exposition that is provided felt like it gave me more questions than answers when I felt like Sean was doing most of the explanation for me in the last episode that we did in this franchise. And I was hoping that the film would actually do that. I shouldn't have to come to Sean to explain to me what the hell is going on in Hellhouse LLC 3, 3, 2, and whichever, right? So I think at Ultimate, at the end of the day, I really wanted to give this film more credit than it deserves. I was on the fence, I really wanted to like it, and I found that I've been in this situation a few times with franchises that we've seen when we're at like the fourth, fifth, sixth installment, but that ending really nailed it on the coffin, right? Like it was determined. My verdict was in that this film ultimately is a hack.

SPEAKER_01 37:05

Well, this is unsurprising. Listen, this movie is a vast upgrade from the previous two movies. And whether you hack it or slash it, I think we can all agree it's at least better than Lake of Fire. Objectively, it's a better movie. The question though becomes whether it's good or just good by comparison to what we get. I think it's actually just good though. Oh god. Jesus. This movie is not better than the first movie, but it's almost as good. If this were the sequel to Hellhouse LLC, I think they would have been way more successful really elevating this franchise. And here's the thing there's something to be said about having characters that you find relatable to really anchor you and ground you into this story. There is overacting, but there's overacting in so many movies. This movie managed for someone who doesn't even get fucking scared in movies anymore, this movie managed to make my chest tighten now. I will also admit that it could be because I've been purely exhausted, so maybe I'm particularly vulnerable this past week. I will have to watch this movie again in the spooky season next year to really suss it out. But I don't think it's going to change because it's not just the fact that we get a woman loving woman couple. It's not the fact that we have Margo and Rebecca in this movie, it's also the fact that we see siblings growing up in a house and their interactions together. Every angle from this movie gives me something to bite into and hold on to that I think anchors me personally into its story, and I think that is a refreshing direction for the franchise to take. So listen, it's not for everybody, but it's damn sure for me. So Hellhouse LLC Origins of Carmichael Matter is a slash. And with that, it's earned two hacks and two slashes, and we're split down the middle. Now, there's a lot more to discuss when we return from break. There's more to say about this movie, but if you've already seen this one before, please let us know what you would rate it. You can join the conversation for free in our Discord server, and you can find the link to join that conversation in our show notes. But if you haven't seen it yet, you can follow the link in our show notes to see where you can watch it right now. When we return from our break, we'll dive deep into the spoiler zone territory and really see how Mac and Banks and Charlie can go at it. See you in a bit.

SPEAKER_03 40:15

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SPEAKER_04 42:01

Well, this one might have snuck by because some of these kills are thrown into the lore and not necessarily captured on film. In fact, I think the only kill we really actually see on screen is Chase's kill, I believe. I think the rest is just like aftermath or mention, but either way, we have a surprising 11 kills in this movie. 11 fucking kills, and I'm curious to see which ones caught your eyes.

SPEAKER_00 42:28

Speaking of eyes, Chase's kill, because his eyes are definitely removed. Yeah, they're gouged the fuck out. A good old chair swivel? That's the stuff that yes is copy and paste, but I'm here for.

SPEAKER_04 42:40

For sure. Yeah, that was a good one. 100%. The eye gouging of it all throughout the movie is just wild.

SPEAKER_01 42:45

Yeah. I mean, listen, Chase was my favorite, but I'm gonna go to my backup favorite because I had a feeling this would happen. Catherine Carmichael also had her eyes gouged out, her throat slit. And there's a couple times where you see this. One in the beginning, when we see the remnants of her body, it's like, holy shit, this is a great upgrade from the lack of clear gore we got in the rest of the franchise leading up to this. If you recall, it was just weeks ago when we watched Lake of Fire, where they had what feel felt like probably just catch-up, and these people were horribly acting their deaths as the camera slowly spinned around like it was on a lazy Susan. Fucking awful that movie.

SPEAKER_06 43:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:36

But here you get not only the crime scene photos, but you get a moment when Rebecca is changing the changing the sheets, the camera goes back to the bed, and boom, carnage. Blood everywhere. Disgusting and so satisfying.

SPEAKER_04 43:57

Yeah. She definitely got fucked up. She did not look good. She got messed up.

SPEAKER_02 44:03

I don't know if there's any really to pick aside from those. I think you've covered the most impactful kills, at least visually. I think if I had to choose another one, I'd go with Margot's kill, though, simply because it was finally over. Dang.

SPEAKER_06 44:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 44:18

You know, because once our main character is out, you know, then the story is coming to a close. And I just wanted to see it like just go somewhere, and I realized it didn't.

SPEAKER_01 44:31

I know that you meant that the movie was over, but in my heart of hearts, because of how annoying I found Margot to be half the time, I thought you just meant because she was over.

SPEAKER_02 44:43

I think it's intertwined. You know, when she's yelling at her brother that he's got to be like dating somebody or seeing somebody or you know, invite me to the wedding, or all that silliness. There's probably some sibling relationships that are kind of like that. Siblings always want to know some information. But to me, that was kind of like, oh my god, this is annoying. Move on.

SPEAKER_04 45:00

Yeah. I mean, these are all like aside from Margo and Rebecca, right? I because we don't necessarily see much of anything. A lot of it is presumed and we know, but you know, it's not shown. And then obviously seeing Catherine and Chase, those are some brutal ones. But outside of that, there's not really much else other than Eleanor, because we do get to see some quick shots of that as well. Stabbed multiple times, probably, bleeding, eyes gouged out as well. And so you gotta throw that in there when we're talking about kills. The rest of them literally just mentioned in the lore or in the backstory.

SPEAKER_01 45:40

Okay, but also how fucking sad for Margaret. And we do get to see a little bit of bloody Margaret later on, but when we get the reveal that there was a home video of her, and it's her and Patrick about to go out, and then she talks about you know they'll be home before dinner.

SPEAKER_04 45:57

Tragic.

SPEAKER_01 45:58

Oh, yeah. To know that that's the last time she ever saw her, terrible.

SPEAKER_04 46:02

Yeah, that's a rough piece of footage, I think, to have. You know what I mean? Because those are literally like the final moments.

SPEAKER_01 46:09

Yeah, it's absolutely devastating. And speaking of Margaret, I actually want to focus on what I thought was the most appealing part of this movie. We have massive upgrades in the cinematography. That's great. The mockumentary looks so much better. The frame of this story looks so much better. We have better quality footage from the cameras that Margot and Rebecca are using. Yes. But I also love the blend of the found footage, home videotapes of the Carmichael family. Because again, this isn't just some basic handicam bullshit. Yeah, it's still messy, it's still not great. Mac, I'm sure you suffered every ounce of this movie. I know, but it is much better than you would typically find in found footage. And the blend of the that camera from the 80s actually reminded me of the video camera that we had when I was growing up. And it was from the 80s, but I used it well into the late 90s. I called her Biggie Bertha. And we would just fucking shoot. I would make my own home movies. Again, lots of relatability in this film. But to cut so many different styles of that and for it to not look as terribly as it did when they pretended to fucking shoot mobile footage in Hellhouse LLC2, so much better.

SPEAKER_02 47:30

I do want to go back to that documentary part though, because the lighting and the depth of field in those shots was impeccable. And that was my favorite thing to look at. There was one part where I was like, I think we're gonna get Boca. I think we're almost there. That's how well things were going.

SPEAKER_01 47:45

Yeah, it actually gave me the same upgrade feeling that I got watching the newest paranormal activity movie.

SPEAKER_04 47:54

Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 47:55

Where it's a bunch of YouTubers going out.

SPEAKER_00 47:58

Damn. Okay. I didn't know that that was what the new one was about. I will say, though, that going back to the overall camera work that has vastly improved in this film, that's kind of what I was hinting at earlier in terms of the tropes that they're integrating from other found footage, the home video component I was impressed by. The other thing that I really liked is there's a particular scene when Chase is in the hallway and it kind of leads into my favorite scene, which I'll talk more about in a second. But the fact that the camera loses focus and you can't quite tell he's trying to autofocus the camera. We don't see enough of that in the previous films. And it makes you realize, like, okay, if this was really found footage, we're thinking of a camera. Your camera loses focus all the motherfucking time. Okay. That shit is always getting zooming in and out and losing focus and stuff, but it's integral in a found footage film, not only to make it seem more realistic, but second, when it is blurry and you can't quite see, that means us as the viewer can't see. That's where the tension's built. So in that particular scene that I love, it is super effective and necessary. So I'm glad that they finally integrated that component.

SPEAKER_01 49:08

Glad to know that we have the same favorite fucking scene, Pinks. But yeah, you're absolutely right. These motherfuckers are out here with the optical zoom trying to make us fucking think that it doesn't have just a digital zoom. I want that shit to look grainy as fuck. I want it to be just as bad as me zooming in on my fucking iPhone. I want it. However, that moment, that camera work, it losing focus, it was an eternity before I could realize what the fuck he was looking at. And when I finally saw it, I was like, holy shit!

SPEAKER_00 49:40

Exactly. Same reaction.

SPEAKER_04 49:41

Yeah, I think you're all talking about all the pieces that really just add to the atmosphere in this movie. You know, the camera work, the lighting, the set design, all of this stuff and the way they executed it just allowed for this movie to really look really good and really creepy in some moments. I feel like for as simple as it may seem, it's one of the best things of the movie. It gives off this creepy, eerie vibe to it, and the shots within the Carmichael manor were just super good. And even though there are some scenes where you actually don't see anything, but you're still kind of like tense.

SPEAKER_02 50:18

I'm gonna be the weirdo though. I have a favorite scene that I think none of you will have, and it is the least the least hellhouse scene of all the scenes, and that is Donald showing off the house. He 100% came across as like a comedic character you would get in something like The Office or Parks and Wreck, where he is obviously playing the straight man and can't respond to things and can't take things he's taking things a little bit too seriously for what's going on and the role that he has in being the person that's what managing this property, but the just like his tone, the way he's interacting with the group is comedy to me, and it was funny and it was a great break from everything else that happens in the film.

SPEAKER_01 51:01

Okay. I really thought he was gonna be the next Andrew Tully.

SPEAKER_02 51:05

Ooh, see, that would have been interesting, and he wouldn't have just been the comedy for me.

SPEAKER_01 51:10

Yeah, I it also frustrates me though that this movie should have been called actual just Hell House.

SPEAKER_02 51:18

Right.

SPEAKER_01 51:18

It could have just been Hell House. We could have had Hell House and then Hell House LLC.

SPEAKER_04 51:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:24

Always go simpler.

SPEAKER_04 51:25

There's a couple of pretty good scenes. Some of the shots that they give you where you don't really see anything. There's just one scene that comes to mind, and it's the shot of them first like filming when they hear like a voice of a girl singing downstairs or something like that during that first night. And it was something about like, you know, they're all jumbled, they got the camera going. There's that angle of seeing just a little section around the corner of the staircase, even though you don't see anything really, like you there's not really showing you anything there. It just was such a good scene that just really started to build those feelings up.

SPEAKER_01 52:03

Oh my gosh. So many feelings were built.

SPEAKER_00 52:06

That is a thousand percent cut from the same cloth as paranormal activity.

SPEAKER_04 52:10

For sure. Those were like the moments where I was like, this feels paranormal activity, and I love paranormal activity.

SPEAKER_00 52:16

For sure. No, same. And that's why, well, as revealed, Chris and I also have the same favorite scene. That's why I love that scene of Chase being in that hallway and you not even realizing what he's looking at because of what they're doing with the camera work. When it's finally clear that it's a hand, you're already staring at it like, oh shit. And then when it moves, you're like, oh fuck, oh fuck. Oh fuck, oh fuck indeed. But the best part is when she just peeks out behind that.

SPEAKER_05 52:48

The little peek out from behind the pillar.

SPEAKER_00 52:50

The little peek out, and you're still staring at her. This is where the pacing is spot the fuck on. If the whole movie was a lot like that throughout, slash the fuck out of it. A hundred percent.

SPEAKER_01 53:03

I'm feeling it all over again.

SPEAKER_05 53:05

You're getting it.

SPEAKER_01 53:06

I'm feeling it all over again. It's hitting. It's creepy. Here's the thing it's fucking creepy as shit. And then I also feel bad because, like, come on, man. Margaret seems like such a sweet gal. But we get the hand, we get the fucking porcelain forehead poking out of that mask. But it reminds me of two things. One, the Poughkeepsie tapes, two, the houses October built because of the scraggly haired bitch in that fucking movie.

SPEAKER_00 53:32

We just saw Poughkeepsie tapes together recently. Yeah, you're so right.

SPEAKER_01 53:36

We sure did.

SPEAKER_00 53:37

I was actually thinking of some other horror films that I've seen recently. I've been watching a lot of foreign films and Pulse, which is Kurosawa, Love Pulse, reminded me of that one. I also saw Ganjium Haunted Asylum. That one almost had me fall off my couch. That was gnarly. It reminded me of a particular scene in that film as well. Any of those films that just have you sit in something, a real uncomfortable moment, that's the stuff. And I wish it there was just more of that.

SPEAKER_04 54:05

Definitely. There's another really good scene in this movie, and it's the scene where Rebecca is literally doing her Zoom presentation or Zoom interview thing, and she's going through the photo files of the listings, and she realizes that it's the house she's in, and it's not only the house she's in, she's actually being photographed from behind in real time, and then the ghost next to her with that little jump scare that you knew had to be coming, but it still fucking got you. Loved it.

SPEAKER_01 54:31

Yeah, dude, it's the fucking early 2000s jump scare that we all knew was fucking coming, but it's still so effective. But really, what makes it so effective is Rebecca and how fucking great she is the entire fucking movie. She was great, Chase was good, Marg was terrible, but that's just my ranking.

SPEAKER_00 54:52

Interesting. My ranking is Rebecca was great, Margot was good, Chase was terrible. So interesting on that front.

SPEAKER_01 54:59

I found Chase fine, totally fine. I thought he was just a goofy brother when he was you know dicking around with a camera on his own. I felt that he had like a very earnest performance. Marg overacted the shit out of this entire fucking movie. It was too much.

SPEAKER_04 55:18

Margo was over the top.

SPEAKER_01 55:19

Fair. I'm like, listen, in what fucking world is Rebecca hooking up with you?

SPEAKER_04 55:25

Okay, so that's well, first of all, I don't know if we're landing the same point in the same way. I'm not ranking any of these characters in that way. But and I'm also not expecting great acting in a found footage horror film because most of the time it's kind of like whatever, but I think that's also adds to the point of the movie.

SPEAKER_01 55:43

But Rebecca gave it to us. Rebecca gave it to us, great acting.

SPEAKER_04 55:47

Okay, yeah. Okay, but Margot and Rebecca together with the chemistry. I I can tell you throughout the whole movie I was not getting relationship energy at all. Like I didn't even they could have just been best friends. I didn't get it, it didn't work, it just didn't work for me. It didn't land. I didn't get it at all.

SPEAKER_01 56:04

I have a quick comment on this. Let me tell you all the ways in which they were dating. One, they shared food, two, they went antique. This man looked at them and said, I know you're kind. Do you know the Avaddon Hotel? You might be interested in the antique store selling items from the Avaddon Hotel.

SPEAKER_05 56:21

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 56:22

Fucking lesbians love antiquing. That was lesbian pandering. And there were actually were moments where I did believe their chemistry as a couple. I know I talked a lot of shit. There were moments that their chemistry was just fine. But most of the other time Marg was acting fucking unhinged, and I'm just like, bitch, no.

SPEAKER_05 56:42

She was way unhinged.

SPEAKER_01 56:44

How is any it's not just Rebecca, how is anybody dating your ass?

SPEAKER_00 56:48

The savagery. I can't even believe that we've arrived here because I don't I don't even remember how we even got here, but I'm all here for it, and then I want to reiterate that. Definitely did not give not even a sliver of chemistry or vibes that they were fucking, that's for sure. Thank you, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 57:05

That's interesting because I immediately got vibes that they were fucking. As soon as her co-founder was talking about the fact they were always together, it was giving and they were roommates. There's that, first off. That's fair, that's fair. But immediately their chemistry together was very much giving they spend every second together in the way that lesbian dates last three months the first time you fucking go out for dinner.

SPEAKER_04 57:32

Okay, yes. But I also feel like the movie's giving you things to tell you they're dating, but it doesn't feel right because they just feel like they're best friends. That's what it feels like to me.

SPEAKER_01 57:44

They're also best friends.

SPEAKER_00 57:46

I do want to say though, going back to that scene where Rebecca is on that Zoom call, of course, it's giving the subgenre of found footage, the host, the well, I was gonna say missing and searching and all that, but that's not horror, but we know these movies, right? These thrillers and things like that, where they use the screen recordings. So I'm glad that they tapped into that subgenre. But it's funny because for me, I actually thought that scene did not hit the way that they had intended for me, but I'm glad that I it wasn't just for me, right? Like it hit for you guys because to me it was like Rebecca's a smart ass girl. From the first couple photos that you're noticing that this is where you are, why wouldn't you X out? Why wouldn't you try to make an excuse as to why you have to close the presentation to continue to search through these photos when you're realizing that it is where you are currently, you know, when your boss is responding to you and trying to get your attention, I understand that you are scared shitless, but my reaction when I'm scared shitless would be Xing out of that real fast, trying to end this presentation altogether and then scream at the top of my lungs. And what that scene then gave was a little bit of like fear.com energy, which love it. You know, it's a terrible movie, but god damn it, it's not the 2000s, you know. So I I wasn't mad at it entirely, I just didn't think it was as scary as it thought it was for me.

SPEAKER_04 59:14

I mean, curiosity killed the cat, I think. You know, if you're in that situation and you start to see something that you're slowly recognizing, I think you're like, hmm, let me take another look at this. This is interesting. Where is this going? I don't know. This is fucking I'm gonna find out one way or another.

SPEAKER_00 59:28

I feel like but the difference is that her reaction was that she was scared.

SPEAKER_04 59:33

True.

SPEAKER_00 59:33

You're like curious, you know. If you're curious, you'd keep searching. She are again, because I think that the actress that plays Rebecca does scared really fucking well. So if you're scared and you're freaking out, you would like I would even close the laptop mid-presentation, you know. Like that's what I expect when someone's in a fight or flight mode.

SPEAKER_01 59:55

Curiosity killed the cat, but satisfaction brought it back again. No, no, but she's probably a ghost. Here's the thing Fucking Lake of Fire, in that movie, we saw that we got ghosts of the original cast the whole fucking time. Give me the ghost of Rebecca, and now it's making me think of American horror story where you had the gay ghosts in the house.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:18

That's great.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:19

Because obviously you mentioned that Rebecca does fear really well when those photos are getting closer and closer and closer. Here's the thing though, Rebecca simply elevates Margot. I'm sure she elevates her in her relationship. Clearly, Marg is fucking relying on her for household income because her job is the only one paying the bills. But I think the big disparity there is how excessively terrible Margot's performance is in so many moments. Mackie mentioned earlier when Margot is pestering Chase about who he's dating and what he's into and things like that. She's just fucking goofy and almost in a way that reminds me of Stop On By the Clown Cafe. Which feels appropriate and also inappropriate at the same time. But all that aside, I gotta say, one of my favorite things about this is that that creepy fucking clown from the first movie that has made its way through the franchise was once just a man in a mask. And the slasher enthusiast in me is all about that shit.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:26

I figured as much. I figured as much. My problem with that is I feel like is that the origin story that I signed up for? Maybe I should have taken a better look at the movie poster after all and realized that the clown is you know I see the clown on the movie poster doesn't necessarily mean that I expected the origin story to be about the clown.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:47

Yeah. Here's the thing, Bings. The clown is synonymous with Hellhouse LLC, and the other thing is the clown was us all along.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:55

Yeah, no, that's for fucking certain. I'll tell you that much. But I don't know how I feel about that kind of reveal. That's my problem with the ending, actually, is because I yeah, because I expected the origin story to be more tied to the lore of Avon Hell's Hell even further. Or at that rate, when I realized like, okay, maybe it's not gonna be so much that, then just give me the clowns and give me something else. But I feel like our time with the Carmichaels wasn't as effective. I I felt a little bit more for Margaret, didn't really care too much about Patrick and Catherine. Like, it's either make this a crime thriller or don't, you know, is this a major like murder story or is it not? I it just didn't really hit all together. And then I was left with like, oh, so it was Patrick. Maybe I should have rewatched this again and given a little bit more of a fuck about the Carmichaels backstory and not spent so much time thinking, what does Margot's story about being kidnapped at one point or attempted kidnap back then? What's that about? I feel like we're getting three stories, three origin stories: the origin of Marg, the origin of Abbaddon Hotel very, very slightly, and then we have the Carmichaels as well. And I'm trying to figure out which one I want to invest my time with.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:07

Well, when the hotel burns down and you gotta go somewhere with this story, and I do think it's a stretch in a lot of ways. I think they added a lot. You know, we don't get to focus on some aspects long enough for it to really develop properly, but I do think the storyline was okay. I feel like it was still fun to watch, but yeah, I don't know. I think it's just because they had to create something and now they have ways to tie. And the clown is like also the best thing of all the movies, I feel like.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:38

Yeah, and I'm not debating that. That's without a doubt, it's all about the clown. And so finding out that the clown was a cult follower at one point or a person at one point is I'm all for it. That's a cool slasher component. I almost feel like then get I wish we had more time of with the Carmichaels, maybe a little bit more home tapes or some more scares involving the family, and a little bit less of Margot's backstory, a little bit less of Chase altogether, perhaps. No, maybe not altogether, that's a little bit of an extreme. But you know what I'm trying to say? I I I needed more time with the Carmichaels then to really care that it was Patrick. Because at the very end, when it was revealed, I was like, oh, oh yeah, I guess. I get you. I do appreciate, although I don't love the actor's performance of Chase, I did enjoy his little moment of silliness. I thought that that was kind of fun. That was a comedic reprieve that I appreciated, even though he is definitely the weakest actor in my ranking, I suppose. I just felt like, of course, we have that sibling component where we have one that's a go-getter, an entrepreneur, thus probably feels like she's better than their other sibling who probably has a rougher upbringing, shady past, not entirely explored, but just enough to make you feel like, oh, this is someone that should probably be like a red herring of some kind in a way, when there isn't a need for a red herring.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:06

I didn't even get red herring. It felt like a distraction mainly. Well, I guess that's what a red herring is, but I didn't think there was anything like that this dude was up to.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:16

Sinister to it, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I just felt like after a while, I'm like, I guess they just didn't want to do a movie where it's just two women stuck in this house and whatnot.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:27

They didn't want to add a I think they just needed a kill. They needed a kill.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:31

They needed to beef it up, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:33

Had to pad that bloody count.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:35

In the end, I think to myself, why did we need another story within a story? Why couldn't we just get a film that was around the original story? Just make the film around the Carmichaels and make that interesting. And why do we need to like tuck that into this story about characters that we really don't care about?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:53

Oh, well, I care about them.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:54

You care about Margot as well?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:56

Yeah, I don't like Margot very much, but I do care about the dynamic. Between her and Rebecca and her brother Chase. I think it's really interesting that she was almost nabbed as a child.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:06

But pick one then. I feel like it so they I like it all.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:09

Life is complex.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:11

It's all tied together. It's just that they didn't have enough time to really dive that deep into everything.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:17

Yeah. And you know what? That's just life. We all have complex lore. We all have our own origin stories.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:24

It's like Shrek, you know? Shrek's like an onion because there's layers. That's that's what's going on here, right? Ogres have layers.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:32

That is what's going on. It's okay for if it's okay for movies to have multiple things happening. I think this is not anywhere as egregious as other movies that have had too much going on to the point where they can't juggle or balance any of it.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:46

That's fair. And that's why I have to say what I consider the best part of this film is that despite having so many things going on, this film got the memo from its predecessors and saved the montage of flashbacks for the ending. It wasn't every five seconds of the film, like Lake of Fire in particular. So I'm really, really glad that it recognized, yeah, we do have a lot of things going on, and we certainly do have a lot of things within our franchise, but we don't have to revisit every single frame by frame again in a film because that would have been one more thing on this film's plate that would have had me throw the whole ass plate away. Would have been like, please, I can't take it anymore. Can't take another montage. So they saved it for the very end and it was a quick one. So I'll give them that.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:33

You know, I can't take another montage, but really what I could have done without completely was the fucking Abaddon Hotel. And any contents found in the Abaddon Hotel. The Abaddon Hotel was cool for one fucking movie, guys. Let that chick go. Don't fucking sit here saying, Oh, do you know about the Abaddon Hotel? Again, it was giving do you know the muffin man? And for them to have fucking gone to this antique store and found all this shit, and I'm just like, fuck. I'm done.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:03

That's just the craziest shit, dude.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:05

It's just the way they found and the way they tied the Abaddon Hotel into the Carmichael Manor in this movie is absolutely absurd. This fucking grandfather clock with this hidden fucking compartment that no one fucking knows about, and it has some footage from the Carmichael Manor. What what's going on here?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:23

And Rebecca happens to be just the person to understand that there's a hidden compartment in this clock because the fucking antiquers themselves, the people who are fucking putting together this whole collection of items, people who would, you know, be exposed to old ass antique fucking grandfather clocks, they wouldn't know. It took took Rebecca.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:49

They have to they appraise those things. They know the value of those grandfather clocks. They would know a grandfather clock backwards and forwards. But more importantly, you know what that entire bit taught me? That Patrick was the little bitch of this cult because they basically had him as the storage unit.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:07

That that house was the storage unit. And post you know, death, even as ghost form, he was still the little bitch of the cult. He's the storage unit, he has to take inventory, he has to upkeep all of the Abbott Hotels things. Incredible.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:21

I I will say though, I feel like the worst part for me, and it's probably not a popular decision based on how everyone's talking about it, but it is just that I wish this movie just stuck in the found footage of it all and it was just a continuous found footage type film. I just think the document documentary mockumentary thing, I didn't need it for a fourth film. I I think we could have done without it, but that's just me.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:48

They need to just pick one and go with it because I think the best part, at least best executed part, was the documentary part. And perhaps that's because I think we've all been watching a lot of docuseries recently, but the production on on that, the production value on that was good. And I think the acting was, of course, not perfect. It's really hard to act like real-life human beings when you're acting for whatever reason. That's just how it works. It wasn't perfect, but it was enjoyable, and I would rather get that sort of setup with compilations from like clips that you would see in docuseries, or simply photographs and other experts talking and leave out the found footage part, or go completely the opposite way. I think there's this weird thing with found footage where you try to make the footage look like found footage. It's not that you try to make the footage look like real footage. And I think that's simply because it's now become a genre and that's just how things look. But I think if you wanted to get a good example of something like that, you would go and watch catfished. That's what the kind of footage would look like, but then it would be found. And I don't think we're there yet here, and I think that does a little bit of a disservice. The footage they have seems like it's being done on purpose for a creepy compilation of footage.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:02

Listen, I know we're talking a lot of shit about this movie, but it will not impede me from watching this again. In fact, I have great pleasure in knowing that when I want to revisit Hellhouse LLC, I can revisit the Carmichael Manor as a sufficient sequel.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:19

Goodness. I do not look forward to watching this again, and I probably won't. I probably won't have to. But the other impact here is that listening to you talk about part three, all of you, makes me makes me realize I probably don't have to watch that either. This is true.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:34

I honestly think that this is one of the more rewatchable films in the Hellhouse LLC franchise. I think you could watch the first one and appreciate it for what it is, and then you might be able to just watch this one and be totally fine. But either way, I definitely think I will revisit this one sometime down the road.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:54

It's a tough one for me because although I didn't like this one, it was one that was on I was on the fence about. So I would definitely revisit the first one, but potentially skip over to four, it's still up in the air.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:06

Well, we'll see how that pans out for you in the future. And Mac, if you're ever willing to give this another shot, doesn't seem likely, but for now that you have it, folks. Lhouse LLC Origins, the Carmichael Manor from 2023 has earned two hacks and two slashes. Now we've certainly had a robust discussion here, but it doesn't end here by any means.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:26

If you want to find out how you can go further than this episode, consider supporting the show by subscribing through Apple Podcasts or visiting patreon.com/slash hackerslash where you can enjoy even more of the show, including bonus content with early access, extended episodes with our B sides, which are free sides for the spooky season, movie nominations, and live shows.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:46

And if you loved listening to us debate whether this franchise was salvaged or another disappointment, then leave us a five-star review wherever you get your podcasts. This helps us continue to deliver great content for all you horror fiends out there.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:00

See you next time, folks, and remember, evil never dies.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:04

This place is fucked. So I had this idea as I was trying to figure out something fun for our fake sponsor that we throw in there. And I came to this idea of like evil clowns unionizing. But now I'm thinking, what if these horror villains in general, let's open it up to horror villains of all shapes, sizes, and kinds, they unionize, right? We'll keep the local 666 because that's perfect. But what would they be asking for?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:44

Well, probably more PTO for starters, higher pay. It's always PTO, more blood.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:49

Definitely more blood.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:50

I think the henchmen would also try to unionize, like a subunion within the union. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:56

We gotta hatch out the union before we get to the subunion, you know?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:59

Listen, I just think they're full of ambition.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:02

I feel like there's probably stuff they would ask for, you know. I mean, there's so many who are movie v villains out there, and collectively, their bargaining power it would be big, you know. So they would be able to get that extra PTO. They'd be able to protect folks who have seniority and really make sure that they're getting the amount of kills that they deserve in their movies.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:25

I guess who are they making these demands of, though?

SPEAKER_02 1:14:28

Well, the government, obviously.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:30

Is it the government? Is that who really runs the show here? I don't know. Maybe Satan. Maybe they're just negotiating with Satan, Lucifer himself.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:39

Could be.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:40

But then wouldn't like certain horror villains that are closely tied to Satan in like, you know, all of those films, Hellhouse LC included, right? Like that entire franchise and how closely tied they are to him.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:53

Do they have more like favorable chances of getting the it's kind of like seniority, except for you know preferential cheap treatment? They probably would have less to pay for their dues.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:05

Yeah, that's it. Right there.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:07

Everyone else plays higher dues.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:09

Yeah. I mean, for sure, they gotta be asking for some kind of health benefits to reattach limbs and you know, they get fucked up, they go through some heavy battles with some of these final girls and stuff. And let's be honest, they get an arm chopped off or you get stabbed in the chest, and you gotta have someone take care of that. Maybe those are some fees that can be helped out by the union.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:29

Yeah, except I think they would also probably ask for some kind of harassment protection, you know? Like maybe they don't even want to get to the point. They want to probably push the platform of disarming survivors.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:43

Yeah, okay, for sure. They they definitely can do like something in the battles or whatnot. Safer working conditions, yeah, for sure. That yeah, that would be like the protection from yeah, for sure, from some kids, man. And how about some compensation for their axes and knives and yeah, or maintenance, like sharpening those knives, constantly keeping them up to date, you know, re-am re getting ammunition. I mean, oh not that these guys are using too many guns, but sometimes, you know, I think they want more opportunities, more promotional opportunities. More screen time?

SPEAKER_01 1:16:19

Yeah, for sure, screen time. Absolutely. They would negotiate better picture deals.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:24

Yeah, sequels, they gotta have more prominence in the sequels, man. Oh man. There's actually quite a lot, I feel like.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:33

What a difference that would have made to the last Halloween movie, you know, to have a union in place protecting Michael Myers. The story would not be the same.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:40

Yeah, specifically against that crowd of suburbans uh in the in Halloween kills.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:46

Yeah, exactly. There would have been some sort of workplace grievance filed after that film.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:51

You know what's true? I bet they would also want some more diverse casting. Like they would want more equitable uh casting for masked roles.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:01

Ooh, yeah, for sure, for sure. They'd also need some kind of funding to upkeep these like creepy places that they dwell in, you know. We got like haunted houses here, we've got, you know, creepy old manors and hotels and shit like that. So you get someone's gotta keep those.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:19

Not Michael Myers getting cola.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:22

I was gonna say, even when they get they must be getting a cold, you know, like are they making doctor's appointments? Do they have that kind of time to be able to go to the doctor and see if they're okay when they're too busy inhaling all kinds of black mold in these homes, right? Is there any maintenance going on?

SPEAKER_04 1:17:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:39

Spiral. It's a spiral.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:40

Yeah, we need some good health care.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:43

I feel like they also want a retirement plan. Like, think about the fact that Michael Myers and Jason Voorhees keep having to fuck up these kids in their old ass age.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:53

Man.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:54

They don't have a 401k.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:55

Maybe they need a 401k.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:58

They need a 529 as well, available available to them and supplemented by, I guess in this case, Satan, because you know, some of them start young and they want to become even better killers by the time they're fully fledged adults, and really they should be able to go to college and not have to spend too much.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:13

So oh shit, what if they negotiated like a resurrection bonus? So every time they're brought back from the dead and forced to suffer through another fucking sequel, they get an extra stipend.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:24

Oh my gosh. Like they're forced to do a sequel, and so yeah. Oh man, that's good. Yeah, I was just thinking of like them getting like fair representation in sequels, but yes, man, if they're forced to do it, crazy.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:37

And even just like royalties off of that, you know? What's their cut?

SPEAKER_01 1:18:41

There's the wise businesswoman.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:42

What's their cut? We need to negotiate that. Also, like some classes for some financial literacy, right? Do they know about compounding interest? Do they even know what a 401k is to begin with? Compounding interest is.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:53

I don't even know what compounding interest is.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:57

Does anybody come on?

SPEAKER_01 1:18:59

Binx with the confidence with which you said that Binx absolutely knows what compounding interest is.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:03

It's it the word, yeah. It's compounding. They're okay. We're not gonna get into it. We're not getting into it. We're not gonna get into a high yield savings account right now and what you should be doing with your money.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:12

This is what we should do. Maybe this is what the people need, Binks. Nothing spookier than financial poverty.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:18

I feel like for that we need my brother to guest star, and he can he can provide us a very well thought out and prepared presentation on all that.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:28

But it it needs to be within the context of a horror film.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:31

Yeah, he can do that. Okay. He could do it. He could do it. Would he want to is a different story. Right. Could he? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:38

You know, like gremlins. Okay, gremlins is already a bunch all within one movie. They could have their own union.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:43

Oh yeah.

unknown 1:19:44

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:45

They would have their own union.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:46

Better food after midnight.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:48

Exactly. Guaranteed food after midnight.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:51

Guaranteed food and water. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:53

And a break during which to eat the food.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:56

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:57

Oh man. What about okay, thinking about some of these horror villains like the Phantom of the Opera? Or I haven't seen the recent Crow movie, but we have Eric Draven from The Crow. What about like a guaranteed love interest?

SPEAKER_04 1:20:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:12

Or even like the mummy, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:20:16

You gotta keep it spicy, you know? Damn it. Every once in a while.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:19

But that can get real toxic real fast because is there like would they be paired off with a female villain? You know what I'm saying? That would be the most ideal situation, I would suppose, because I would hate to have a love interest, you know, like a bride of Chucky's. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know?

SPEAKER_01 1:20:34

Yeah, it's getting Frankenstein and Bride of Frankenstein. Yeah, that's it. Yeah, okay. What about even like compensation for lost loves? So John Kramer losing his wife. Well, I guess, you know, did he really lose his wife or did he push her away and destroy her?

SPEAKER_00 1:20:50

Yes. In Eric Draven's case, that's a perfect example of that one, I suppose. Even though Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:55

I mean, even just the legal rights to be able to ensure that you can come back from the dead because how are you gonna carry on these sequels without finding a way back? You know?

SPEAKER_01 1:21:06

Ooh, you know what? Fuck that. If I were them and I were unionizing and demanding this, I would want a fresh start with every resurrection. I don't want that credit score following me in the afterlife and bringing Bob back to life. I want to start over. New life, who does it?

SPEAKER_04 1:21:22

Started over. Okay. All right. So you get to reinvent yourself maybe a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:26

I mean, if I were that, reset.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:28

Think of the student loans as well. Sorry, can you tell that I work in education? I'm just thinking of like student loans, education opportunities. And I'm like, man, wouldn't that be, you know, still have to pay off those student loans no matter what? It's a horror for everybody. It is.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:46

It truly is. Because of not learning about compounding interest, Dracula's student loan payments. Those are massive by this point.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:53

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:55

Compounding interest. I'm picking up on what it is by context clues.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:58

There you go.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:59

It sounds like interest, but also worse.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:02

No, compounding interest is good. Oh, what? That makes no sense. Oh, geez. We're just gonna.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:07

Isn't that what Max said? Dracula's student loans would be through the roof.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:11

Well, no, hold on, hold on. In that particular instance, yes, it was negative. But that's not the same exact compounding interest that I was talking about.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:20

Right. You've compounded Chris's interest.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:23

Yeah. Um, I just want to point out this is why a lot of Americans are broke. We don't understand this shit.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:29

And that's what I'm trying to fix in this hypothetical union.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:32

Honestly, bless you, Binks. You deserve way more accolades for that.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:35

Yeah, you can be you can be like the spokesperson for this union.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:39

My and if my brother were listening to this in particular, he'd be rolling his eyes because I'm probably not the person to be providing this kind of the same person that just spent $70 on Wi-Fi on their cruise because I got too anxious. I don't know. I don't know if I'm the girl.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:55

Your fiscal responsibility puts you in a position where you could afford to do it. Thank you. Boom. There it is.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:00

Are you gonna be the union's lawyer? Because you're doing a good job.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:03

You know, I I should have been. My dad says that my sister and I both should have been lawyers, but here we are. I chose to be less confrontational in life. You know though.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:12

Dang.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:12

Thinking back to the union of it all, I was thinking about Terrifier 2 and how Art the Clown has to do his own laundry. So I feel like they should demand a stipend or a laundry service for getting rid of all the blood off their costumes.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:27

Well, especially him because it's not blood only, right? It's also shit.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:31

Oh god, I forgot about the shit. Holy shit, actually.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:35

A lot of bodily things.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:37

As we record this, we're a little over two weeks away from our trip to Orlando.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:42

And during that trip to Orlando, we're gonna watch Terrifier 3.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:46

This is true.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:47

Allie's coming with me, and she's never seen Terrifier anything. Her only understanding of Art the Clown is that he's on my arm. I'm terrified of the reality that this may go terribly for me.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:59

You should be terrified.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:01

I should be terrified. Holy shit, this could be real bad. I was actually just talking to her about that earlier, and I was like, listen, I don't know how this is gonna go. It's not unlike Winnie the Pooh Blood and Honey 2, which she loved, but also it's much worse. It's real fucking brutal.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:17

It's brutal for sure. It's very brutal. And you know, when you throw a Santa in the mix, you know some kids are getting it.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:26

She watched the trailer for Terrifier 3 with me and then said, I mean, it seems interesting, but why does it look like an old movie? And I'm like, that's the point. This is gonna be fucking terrible when she sees the original.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:37

Well, I mean, I guess you probably no, you kind of do want to watch the other ones prior, no?

SPEAKER_01 1:24:44

Got to, especially with the runtime that's probably gonna end up being.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:47

There's too much story now, though.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:48

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:49

Because if you watched the second one before the first one, it wouldn't be like the end of the world because it kind of dives into that story.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:56

You know what? Yeah, you just have to second you have to be strategic about it, is all if she doesn't like the first one, then there's no way she's gonna keep going.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:03

I mean, I don't know. I think I enjoyed the first one kind of, and then terrifier two is what really cemented it for me.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:09

No, yeah, it could go either which way. I'm just saying that if she gets terrified by terrifier, terrifier two is less likely to happen. Look at Mac. Electric boom. Mac is a perfect example.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:21

Yeah, it wasn't so much terrified, it was mostly just did not enjoy and found to be really grotesque.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:28

Yeah, I'm not even thinking in so much that she'll be scared of it. I'm thinking just in general that maybe she just we'll think it's ridiculous.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:34

Yeah, we'll see. Which begs the question then do these villains need to be unionizing for cinematic legacy protection? They have to control the quality of their sequels.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:45

Yes, I'm telling you, they need it.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:48

It's their livelihood. So yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:50

They need that, they need to protect their legacy. I was just thinking they need some kind of guaranteed like victim allotment of some kind, you know what I mean? Gotta keep things interesting, you know, feed the beast. We need to make sure the beast. Feed the beast. Gotta make sure we're killing peeps.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:08

Oh my god. I was just thinking about shitty sequels, and then I was thinking about the Friday the 13th, in which the killer is Roy and not Jason. And I feel like Jason will want to clause that he is anti-expendable. Like he it has to be him, it can't be any of these rando motherfucker EMTs.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:28

No copycats.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:29

Oh, well, maybe not rando, but I was gonna say, like, but his mom was the first one. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, no, no. And mom's the exception. Also, when you said shitty sequels, you definitely should have just said Hellhouse LC2.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:40

Oh my god, now yeah, you're absolutely right.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:43

You said I was like, you said it, I was like, oh, she's gonna connect it to the franchise that we're reviewing.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:49

Lake of dumpster fire.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:50

Well, um, it might I was gonna say, in in my case, that is also debatable, but right.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:55

Wait, what?

SPEAKER_00 1:26:55

You said likeable likable shit in terms of Friday the 13th?

SPEAKER_01 1:26:59

Wait, I'm sorry, did you just almost defend Lake of Fire or no? Am I confused?

SPEAKER_00 1:27:04

No. No, no, no, no. I was talking about Friday the 13th specifically. There is no defending that Lake of shit. No, absolutely not.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:11

But hear me out. Speaking of Friday the 13th, there's a Friday the 13th next year in June. A summer Friday the 13th. Okay. And you know what we could do?

SPEAKER_02 1:27:21

We could go Kill some kids at a camp? Don't do that.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:24

No, Mac, but we could go to a place where kids were killed at a camp because we could go toward the actual campground where 80% of the movie was filmed. Like you can even you can do an overnight trip. They do flashlight tours at night. You can ride in the canoes. I really want to fucking go to this. And I think after the October time away, I'm gonna put in my next vacation request for October, but I'm also gonna spike in the Friday the thirteenth weekend just in case I can swing it. You're welcome to join.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:55

Although that sounds extremely frightening, it's the kind of frightening that might sway me to eat then. Yeah, I don't think it's gonna be scary.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:02

I think it's gonna just be like you can appreciate some cool shit. Right, right. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 1:28:07

It's like Yeah, unless they were really trying to scare you, I don't know how creepy it would Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:12

I'm gonna put a link in the show notes to it. But it's Camp Crystal Lake Tours, and honestly, their merch looks fucking great. I always want the idea of getting like a Crystal Lake shirt, but they always look a little bit cheesy. But these look fucking premium.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:30

I just want to know everything about the name Nobi Bosco.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:34

Nobody Bosco.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:35

I mean, they've been running since 1927, so they've been doing something right, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:39

Yeah. That's true. Absolutely. Oh, they even have the fucking Jeep from the movie or when that looks like it. Nice.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:46

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:47

Sorry, I'm really taking us off the rails of labor laws, but also Yeah, we should be teaching kids in camps about unions.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:54

That's what you're saying. I don't know that that's what I'm saying, Mac. Everyone should learn about how important collective bargaining is to democracy. Just say it.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:04

Everyone shouldn't know about making a well-informed decision about your right to bargain collectively.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:11

That's right. And that it's fundamental to how killers should run their businesses as well. Hashtag, just horror movie icons in general, ghosts included.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:20

This place is hilarious. There's one picture with an axe. I don't know what that's about.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:29

Which makes me wish I had a little Walkman still.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:31

I know. I know. I have a couple of actual cassettes lying around.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:35

Oh, this is cute because it's like clear with red accents and glitter.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:40

Ooh, glitter is for winners.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:44

Wait. I'm sorry. We rewound Hellhouse LLC, yes? Why don't I remember Bing's liking it?

SPEAKER_00 1:29:53

That's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:56

Why don't I remember that? Holy shit. I honestly think my my brain and my memory is tarnished by the bullshit that followed.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:04

That's you're probably blending both. Yeah. You're making me second guess myself, and now I'm looking it up.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:10

No, no, I believe you. I'm in no way doubting the validity of your head of your slash. I just think this franchise was a huge fall from grace.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:20

So I actually have some fact-checking to provide because clearly we've just been through such a whirlwind when it comes to this franchise. I think we thought that we rewound this with me and Sean in it. We actually haven't. We just all we just once talked about it. We just talked about how much we liked it. So we haven't done the first or the second one in terms of us, our opinions on them.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:45

That's why I don't remember it.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:47

We're all losing our minds.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:48

Technically, we're both right.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:49

We were both right. Look at that. Yeah, I I was gonna say, although perhaps there is some of a gap in terms of lore, the pain, you know, was not endured.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:04

The pain.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:05

And listen, the family that suffers together suffers together. And I think we need to suffer together.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:11

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:12

I know what you were gonna say. I know what you were gonna say. The family that suffers together stays together?

SPEAKER_01 1:31:18

Yeah. Because that's crazy. It also just suffers together.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:24

Maybe I'm just missing that one old dude that was doing the interviews in the in the first couple of films, you know?

SPEAKER_01 1:31:31

Ugh.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:34

Sean loves a balding white man.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:37

He was just really silly. Well, tell his wife.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:40

Oh, wait, no, you're talking about the older dude who the cool guy who was interviewed. I thought you were talking about the motherfucker running the Abaddon Hotel, because holy shit, I was tired of him.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:49

No, not that fucking guy. The weird guy with the beard.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:52

Yeah, okay, no, the weird guy with the beard was actually very cool, and I respect that. Yeah, bring that guy back. They're fucking, but they're also best friends, but they also probably suffer from lesbian bed death, which is lesbians who get together, they're in love, they're together forever, then they stop having sex. I've learned so much this evening.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:13

I've learned so much. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:16

I mean, listen, is it a thing? I've read about it in books, yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:21

I've read about it in literature. It's in the handbook.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:26

It's part of the agenda.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:28

Incredible, incredible. So enlightening.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:33

I have a confession about something that this entire conversation has just reminded me of.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:39

You you forgot who Patrick was too? No, I didn't forget who Patrick was. It's reminding me of Amityville 2 the Possession.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:49

Oh, jeez. Oh. Kind of.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:53

As it should. As it should, because it's not like this is super duper original.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:58

Okay, dude, listen here. You gotta take it in. Take it easy. What I mean, I'm not saying that Patrick and Margaret had anything weird going on, but Patrick being the son who ends up killing his family. Sure, it's giving the MDV horror, but specifically the multi-sibling component, and there's something there about like there's something there about Patrick feeling all that guilt for being involved in Margaret's death. For some reason, it's giving me that really uncomfortable feeling that the eldest siblings gave me in Amityville 2 the possession. That's dark. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:44

It is dark.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:45

I don't like it.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:46

Well, here we are.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:48

I did like that movie though.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:50

Nice.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:51

Is it nice?

SPEAKER_04 1:33:52

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:53

Oh probably nothing I should be proud of, but here we are.