351: Donnie Darko (2001)

SPEAKER_00 0:04

You know, Chris, sometimes I doubt your commitment to sparkle motion.

SPEAKER_06 0:11

Greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hacker Slash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. Why are you wearing that stupid bunny suit? If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack, a total joke, a waste of time, or a splash.

SPEAKER_00 0:29

Totally killer, pun intended.

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We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, we're rating these movies with a perspective we've gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slash enthusiast. This week I'm drawn by the super fly space guy Mac.

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If you feel the need to vomit up there, just swallow it.

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The classic horror connoisseur Sean.

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When you fall asleep tonight, I'm gonna fart in your face.

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And the paranormal pair more Binks.

SPEAKER_04 0:55

Oh please tell me, Elizabeth, how exactly does one suck a fuck?

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This week we're welcoming October by reviewing a film that counts down to Halloween.

SPEAKER_02 1:04

And if you're a patron or Apple Podcast subscriber, you'll be able to hear our B side at the end of this episode where we talk about some fucked up vintage Halloween costumes that are out there. Because let's face it, the old costumes were the best.

SPEAKER_06 1:20

Mm-hmm. Now, while we count down to Halloween, this week's film is brought to us from the mind of writer and director Richard Kelly, whose moment of inspiration came while watching a football game. John Madden was using a telestrator, diagramming the players' movements before the tape rolled, and Kelly, while high, started wondering what it would be like if someone was doing that to humans. And what if our paths were being mapped out by something we couldn't see? That idea sparked the creation of a story about a troubled teenager who narrowly escapes a bizarre accident, only to be plagued by visions of a mysterious man in a large rabbit suit who begins to influence him in dark and unsettling ways. But getting the story to the screen was no simple task, largely because the film was a unique blend of genres that left distributors scratching their heads. The end result was a film that baffled even its stars during production, struggled at the box office due to unfortunate timing, and yet ultimately became a cult classic. In fact, it's considered one of the most influential films of its generation, thanks to its success on DVD. This week we're talking about Donnie Darko. Who's seen this one before?

SPEAKER_02 2:31

You know, this was a movie that was a cult following film. It was a ultimately a box office flop, primarily due to pulling some of their main advertising angles because of 9-11 and whatnot. But you know, it did gain that sort of cult following, just like you said. And I remember exactly when this movie came out because I was in my freshman year of high school, and over the next few years, I remember everyone just raving about this movie. I just could not get through school without talking about Donnie Darko. Like it was a thing, and just people trying to share what they felt the meaning of the movie was was like the big topic of conversation. And I found myself watching this movie a number of times over the years.

SPEAKER_04 3:19

Absolutely. I revisit this film as often as I can, every October 2nd. Jake Gyllenhaal is on my Mount Rushmore favorite actors of all time. So you can only imagine how many times I've seen this film and what will be 23 years soon. I love this film, and I think a lot of it is because as a kid, I'm hearing my brother talk about this film, or I'm younger than you guys, right? So I was in fourth grade when this came out, and so imagine like little old me, you know, seeing my older brother and his friends talk about this movie, or feeling like, ooh, we're doing something crazy by watching this very obscure film, especially as I got older. So I think that what appealed to me the most was the several different possibilities of what it could mean, the nuances behind the theories, and all of that just intrigued me, aside from it obviously being Jake Gyllenhaal.

SPEAKER_00 4:10

Oh gosh, I've definitely seen this movie several times and have had discussions with people about it. And I feel like a lot of those folks are in a similar place to Banks where they saw it later in life. And it came to them in a moment of growth when they were like discovering what was out there and learning what was possible, and it felt like it was off the beaten path. It felt like it's not mainstream. They had just discovered that you could purchase uh cassette tapes of Morrissey, and really they were changing who they were as a human being. So I hope you enjoy your Americanos and leather jackets and telling everybody about the Smiths. But anyway, point being, I just think this had a moment in a lot of people's lives. It didn't really hit like that for me. I was further along in high school when this came out. I watched it later on on DVD, I've seen it on streaming, and I've seen it several times. It's always a fun one to think about. I'm into sci-fi. Everyone knows that. So this is right up my alley because it it really makes you like question the what ifs. And obviously, that's how the director and writer got to this point is by imagining what ifs. So I'm down for that.

SPEAKER_06 5:13

Oh, the power of imagination. This is a safe space. We're all friends here. I do want to confess the first time I ever heard of this movie, and it was 2015. I was in film school, and one of my classmates did a I can't remember what the exact assignment was, but we basically had to test lighting, and he put his subject in the Donnie Darko Frank the Rabbit mask, and I remember looking at that mask thinking, that looks really fucking cool. And Donnie Darko was then on my radar, but I didn't watch it until honestly poof 2021-ish. 2020 Oh wow. It must have been 2021. I was in a long distance relationship at the time. Uh my ex-girlfriend absolutely loved this movie, and when I watched it, I did not like it. Now, I acknowledge though, time and space. That could have been for a couple different reasons. She is the same person I watched The Lodge with, and I didn't enjoy The Lodge the first time I watched it with her. Heavy movies, heavy themes of depression. I was watching it during the pandemic. There's a lot of things in there that maybe skewed or colored my perspective on this movie. But looking back on that feeling that I had, it brought this overwhelming sensation of angst and depression that I wasn't really a fan of. And so revisiting it this time, I was excited to potentially give it another shake. Time and space, a lot more healed, watching it on my own as opposed to the next company. And I think the real kicker though, and this like lasting taste I've had in my mouth, I was faced with two options. I could rent the theatrical cut, the one I had already seen, or I could watch the director's cut already available to me through my Peacock subscription. And I thought, well, I already didn't like it the first time. I might as well just pay with more of my life. So I ended up going with the director's cut this time, and I couldn't even really tell you the difference between the two. I know it's longer, obviously, but I found that like my experience of watching both of these versions were so wildly different that I can't even remember what wasn't present the first time I watched it.

SPEAKER_02 7:24

Yeah. I also watched the director's cut, and yeah, obviously longer. They do extend some scenes, right? You get a little bit more of certain areas, which we can talk about in the spoiler zone, and they switch out, I think, some of the soundtrack, or at least one song on the soundtrack. So there are some differences for sure, but we'll get into it.

SPEAKER_00 7:44

I had to make the choice myself as well, after, especially after messaging Sean about it. I went with the theatrical myself because I figured it's a couple minutes shorter, and I already kind of know the mythos and some of the structure, so I don't really stand to gain a lot by diving in and getting the extra. I just, like you said, Chris, I was expecting it to be depressing. That's one of the things I remember about the film. And I don't know that that's completely valid. Obviously, we'll talk about it, but there's themes here that could be. Definitely, it tries to be really cerebral, and so I was looking forward to that. I remember it being quirky, so I thought, okay, it's gonna be quirky in both the characters and just a lot of the dialogue as well. But one of the things that I was looking forward to, and one of the things that has stuck with me for decades, is it's heavily quotable. It is a very quotable movie. There is literally a quote from this movie that I have used probably once every month at least since I first saw the film. And these are the things that I'm thinking about when I'm getting into a rewatch, however many years later.

SPEAKER_02 8:43

Interesting. Well, I am very curious to hear what that quote is. But man, this movie, I feel like it just has a great range of emotions and feelings. You know what I mean? This movie evokes hope, hopelessness, love, dread. I think it makes you laugh, and I'm sure to some it could even make you cry. I feel like the mix of emotions in this movie are as complex as the story itself. And I feel like there could probably even be confusion as well. I'm sure that a lot of people, even on their first watch, if you can remember back to it, were a little bit confused. And, you know, I've talked to a lot of people that didn't get the movie on their first watch. Hell, I probably didn't really grasp the entire film on my first watch as a teenager. But yeah, man, there's just so many feelings.

SPEAKER_04 9:30

Yeah, absolutely. I'm right there with you in terms of the film feeling frustrating, sad, deteriorating at times, especially if you suffer or know someone that suffers from mental illness because that's a very heavy topic on face value for this film. All the while, like I think it does circle back around like this feeling of profound empathy and a big takeaway being like the repercussions of your actions. So that's what really resonates with me every time I see this film. It's very consistent with what it portrays and what it brings out of me, right? The other aspect to it, more on a technical level, is just the 80s vibes. The soundtrack for this film is exceptional, it's incredible from start to literal finish. Michael Andrews did an amazing job with this. If you've ever heard of Mad World by Gary Jules, the Tears for Fears cover, it's this film. So you're very welcome. I feel like that song in and of itself has withstood the test of time, but there's so many bangers on this film. Like so many. Every time I see it, I'm like so glad. I go, I grab my Donnie Darko vinyl, I kiss it, and I say, Thank you so much for existing.

SPEAKER_02 10:42

It is a good soundtrack.

SPEAKER_06 10:44

Okay, Mad World, absolutely, yes, I agree with you. I also really love, and this might be a little controversial, I love the Riverdale cover of Mad World. It's honestly a 10 out of 10 experience. I enjoy it. However, the 80s vibe is such an interesting thing to point out because I know that this movie is littered with time cards or title cards that indicate the date. I was always focused on the October of it all and never of the year. I did not for a second ever fucking think on my first watch that this shit was in the 80s. In fact, I remember being shocked this time when it said 1988. And this motherfucker's on the TV saying this is what I want to bring to the White House in 1989, and I was like, good sir, what the fuck are you talking about? This is clearly the 2000s or the 90s. And that's where I struggled a bit. But I will say that aside from this, going into this movie that can be filled with Sean, as you mentioned, hopelessness, some dread, some angst, I was dreading this experience. But I was surprised also how much more I enjoyed it than I recalled enjoying it. I still lingered in this overwhelming sensation of this movie just feeling fucking weird for sure. But I think the chemistry between the cast really stands out in this one. Also, what an incredible cast we have, even down to Drew Barrymore as a teacher in this film. It's giving never been kissed almost. It's really a great time. But the confusion and the pleasant surprise of it all was a great way to summarize this experience for me.

SPEAKER_04 12:20

Absolutely. The big surprise here definitely is that cast. Every time you watch this film, you're like, what in the world? How did all of these people come together for a film that Richard Kelly had to really sell? Drew Barrymore, being a producer, by the way, that's why she's in the movie to begin with. So shout out to you, ma'am. Love that. But let's also talk about how Seth Rogan's in this movie.

SPEAKER_02 12:42

I know.

SPEAKER_04 12:43

Let's talk about how Ashley Tisdale is in this movie, famed high school musical star that she is. There are some cameos in here that you wouldn't even expect. It's incredible. Patrick Swayze, R.I.P.

SPEAKER_06 12:55

Jenna Malone, famed Hunger Games girl herself. Amen.

SPEAKER_04 13:00

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 13:01

Nobody's mentioning Noah Wiley.

SPEAKER_04 13:02

There we go. No, it's an incredible cast, absolutely. And then the other part that surprised me, Mac, you actually mentioned it, is that comedy. The comedy in this film cannot be unnoticed. There are several one-liners here, like you mentioned, that are so good and hilarious every single time. And it is jarring in contrast with how like nihilist this film is and how sinister it is. Again, with the subject matter and the overall like Donnie Darko experience. But man, maybe some of the comedy doesn't land anymore and it's dated. Uh rather, like you can tell that it doesn't really land the same anymore. Other aspects though, exceptional.

SPEAKER_00 13:39

Yeah, a lot of it is like not the type of comedy that you go out of your way just to tell a joke and get a laugh, but it's more like when people talk about, isn't it funny how horrible things are? That's the kind of comedy you really get here. And there's nothing wrong with that. It makes the watch a little bit easier to get through when you pick up on that kind of stuff. You've already mentioned the cast here. That was probably the most pleasant surprise because I had forgotten just how many people here are big names. Like I'm sitting here watching the president from Battlest Galactica. Is that who I'm thinking of, right? And she's been in so many other things, and I love it. But each person here brings so much to the table, and I think that's what's really fun is the character work caught me off guard. Because I remember it being weird, you know, I remember it being kind of quirky. That's like it's on purpose. Kids who go out of their way to tell you that they listen to pixies on a daily basis. I get it. You're trying to be fun or whatever. So it's a little try-hard in some ways, but when you let it just be kind of natural, it is really enjoyable to see all these actors getting a chance to kind of show up and show off.

SPEAKER_02 14:39

Yeah, for sure. I I would like to start by saying I was most surprised by Donnie's pumpkin carving skills because goddamn, like that is some elite pumpkin carving action in this movie.

SPEAKER_06 14:53

Yeah, when you go into shaving down the pumpkin to get dimension as opposed to just doing a standard cut and pluck.

SPEAKER_02 15:00

It's just so good. But you know, yeah, character-wise, absolutely. I think honestly, jokes aside, the most surprising thing about this movie is always hearing all the different perspectives that people have on the meaning of this film and their take on what happened because it differs like depending on the person. Everyone I talk to, that might be an exaggeration, but a lot of people that I talk to have some kind of opinion on what took place and what the meaning of it all was. And the people involved in the film are no different. Jake Gyllenhaal and Richard Kelly themselves have documented differing interpretations of this film. So that just goes to show you like how crazy the story and the execution of this film is and what it means to different people. It's just wild. But I will say, disappointments, I think Binks, you kind of alluded to it, right, with some of the comedy and the choice of dialogue that hasn't aged super well. And I think if you had to pick a disappointment, it'd probably be the little snippets of that. And I get that we're depicting fictional characters and all, and I know, you know, sad but true, this is how it was back then. This kind of shit was happening when I was in high school, but it does feel even more unnecessary the more I watch the film.

SPEAKER_00 16:16

But can we take a moment to question Binks and a lot of other folks out there as well and ask, how on earth is this a horror movie?

SPEAKER_04 16:24

Here we go. Damn. I was waiting for it. I was like, wow, they're not gonna roast me until now. Just the Halloween of it all.

SPEAKER_06 16:29

Come on, hit us.

SPEAKER_04 16:31

Okay. So damn, all right, we're doing this now. Let's do it. So my thought is I think a lot of the times we have this debate on the pod where we are reviewing horror films that the subject matter or just the contents, the movie in general, is not scary at all. Famously, Gatlop. I'll use that as an example, right? And does it have some elements of science fiction in it? Most certainly that film per in particular, right?

SPEAKER_06 17:03

Fucking Gatlop ace in the hole for this argument.

SPEAKER_04 17:06

No, I'm just giving one example. I could give several, but I'm just using that one because it's I want to kind of root it in movies that we've reviewed that are in sci-fi specifically, lovey Mac, but not that I'm trying to, you know, I I'm actually hoping that you maybe, even though you're posing the question, maybe I can turn you around doubtful. I could never convince a Gemini otherwise, but I'm gonna try. I just feel like when it comes to this film, just because it's rooted in sci-fi doesn't mean that it doesn't have horror-related things to it. And I think the subject matter here is absolutely horrific. If we think of the idea of mental illness and overall, like these concepts of time travel and parallel universes, these are all themes that we see in a lot of horror films.

SPEAKER_01 17:52

That's true.

SPEAKER_04 17:52

You know? And so it's not just that it's in Halloween, I think it's more so the subject matter that seems very similar and parallel to a lot of the horror films that we review, even more recently as like long legs per se, right? Because long legs, there's a lot of paranormal and supernatural elements to it as well. So that's my argument there. I know it's not fully soundproof. I'm just trying to, you know, maybe get us to explore the potential and the possibility that there are films that cover very horrific and terrible and disturbing themes.

SPEAKER_06 18:28

I think if there was a Venn diagram of sci-fi and horror, those circles are so far apart that there's just barely a little sliver of overlap, and it's in that very little tiny sliver of overlap, that is the space where this movie lives. Oh my god. Just on the cusp.

SPEAKER_04 18:50

So then let me ask this then. So then what about Alien Romulus or Alien in general? That whole franchise.

SPEAKER_06 18:56

Yeah. Well, first, I can't tell you shit about Alien. The first one, it's Jaws in Space. Alien Romulus is horrific. I think the rest of that is just sci-fi, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:04

I'm looking at Mac Dead in the Eye.

SPEAKER_00 19:06

So let me answer my own question then, because I think everyone thinks about this movie the wrong way. I don't think about this movie as being a sci-fi movie at all.

SPEAKER_02 19:14

Me neither. I don't either.

SPEAKER_00 19:16

I know that stuff talked about is lumped into sci-fi. Where I classify this as a horror film, the only way that I can, in my mind, kind of make everything okay is that this is psychological and metaphysical horror. Yeah. That's the only way where it can where it can add up. And when you can adopt that kind of mindset, that's where you could start to perhaps to understand where a lot of folks can immediately think of this as being a horror movie because it's not a scary movie to me in any way, shape, or form. But psychologically, I could see how some folks might find this uh, you know, to plague their mind a little bit and cause them to have thoughts questioning reality. So, okay, I get it.

SPEAKER_06 19:56

A certain couple characters in this movie would clutch their pearls and think the events of this film are horrific for sure. However, I think the scariest thing about this movie is teenage angst. Mental illness, absolutely, but a lot of it goes into the teenage angst. And I'm not even talking about just Donnie Darko himself. There's a lot of this energy that really cements itself in like the I mean, this is like the other side of the coming of age films. This is being lost, finding yourself growing up as a human, regardless of mental illness or not, there's already this positioning of being in a crowd of people, but not being seen and not being understood. And that's the real horror of this movie, on top of all of its layers with mental illness. So hats off to it. I'm not complaining about it, but what I am saying is that it's just a different slice of it.

SPEAKER_02 20:53

It's fair. I think everyone's making pretty good points. Binks, I commend you for trying to connect the dots for horror. And I do think that it is horror adjacent. I don't think it is a horror movie. I think it is horror adjacent. I think it is, to your point, Mac, maybe more of a psychological thriller. I do see that there is some sci-fi elements in there as well. But that being said, this movie still built some twisted, creepy, and surreal moments. This is not a movie that is scaring you by jumping out at you by any means. It's a movie that challenges you to think, it festers in your mind, and there is something eerie about that. It has a presence.

SPEAKER_00 21:37

And that presence, I think, is really what lets this movie stand apart and lets it remain in people's minds. You know, this is something like once you've seen it, and especially if you've seen it a second time, if somebody merely mentions the name Donnie, you probably think Darko. Like it sticks with you, right? Not Chris didn't have that association. I think it really depends. And I think it's one of those generational kind of things. Things as well, where Gen X and millennials probably have this very strong uh attachment to this film where nothing else really seems quite like it. I think other generations are probably not going to have that reaction whatsoever. But I think for many of us, this is an island.

SPEAKER_04 22:17

Yeah, I think that in terms of the writing in general, it's exceptionally original and obviously has planted its flag at the top of the hill in terms of marketing and cult following. Donnie Darko is a name that I feel like a lot of people would recognize. Again, maybe not Chris, but that's fine, right? A majority, a vast majority. But what I think makes it really original to me is that Richard Kelly kind of created a culmination of concepts that he was thinking about, what ifs. He brought in things that he experienced from his own life, things about himself. He brought in, you know, urban legends, concepts of time travel researched by Stephen Hawking, like all of these things that, as Chris mentioned at the beginning, right, is kind of why it was a little difficult to get some money and funding and to be able to explain it. But I think it's props to him to have the gall to try. And I think that that's cool. And ultimately, at the end of the day, I know that it's a radical and ridiculous film to maybe argue that it's horror, but like I just said, I think it's the undertones in the subject matter that makes it horror. And I recently have started watching David Lynch films. I know that's maybe controversial to say. I have never seen a David Lynch film up until recently, other than Dune. And so as I'm watching a lot of these David Lynch films, I get very much Donnie Darko vibes from it, right? One movie in particular that is one of my favorite David Lynch films is very much Donnie Darko, and I hadn't realized it up until now, obviously. I'll refrain from saying which one it is, because it would definitely spoil the film. But this idea of making you think twice, not fully understanding, Sean, you mentioned it earlier too, leaving people with what is the truth and what isn't is something that David Lynch is famous for, that Richard Kelly, I think, brought into the early 2000s with this film. And look at all the other films that we've had since then, whether they're horror or not, that kind of make you question what is really happening, and because you're questioning it, what is actually like really horrific about the film.

SPEAKER_06 24:21

Wow, yeah. But my favorite part of that entire stanza is he had the gall to try. And that is honestly such a way to describe this movie. This movie is a lot of audacity. I can applaud that. Listen, this movie is fucking weird, it's different. So it certainly is very singular in the experience of watching this. However, I think a more recent thing that it I'm now thinking of as we have this discussion is just cuckoo that we re watched just recently. I don't know that I'm super jazzed about movies where I'm just confused the whole fucking time. Yeah. And this one is less so. I'm not as confused watching this, obviously, as I was with Cuckoo. This is more straightforward, but holy shit.

SPEAKER_02 25:03

For sure. It does fit into that theme of movies that try to leave more unanswered and more for you to kind of find out for yourself, which to some may be really fun, and to some may be really frustrating. In my opinion, I think this movie, if you were to just take the main plot points, like the bare bones plot points, it's something that I feel like we have seen before, but this movie plays with a concept that many films fumble with and creates an eerie story with many twists and turns that feel fresh and unique. Even watching it today just speaks to how it can stand the test of time. And it had been probably easily maybe close to a decade since I've watched the film, to be honest with you. It's been a long, long, long time. But even watching it now, it just still feels unique.

SPEAKER_00 26:00

And boy, does that ending make it seem unique. It's really hard to talk about the ending of this film without giving it away. So you just can't go into too much detail. But it is the thing that makes this movie, and it's the thing that either makes you enjoy it or not enjoy it, depending on your reaction to it. I think it can really make or break the film for a lot of folks. For me, as a sci-fi nerd, as someone who's into what ifs, if you will, this movie didn't seem like all that crazy of an idea the way it ends. I was completely fine with it, understood it, it didn't seem out there. I like the first time watching it, got it. I think they deliberately created a sense of ambiguity for a lot of people, to the point where even the filmmakers and the actors and everybody disagree on what it actually all means. That could either be a really fun choice or kind of a silly way to go about things. And I think it goes back to what Chris said in the intro here, where the idea came from watching something while under the influence. And perhaps maybe some of that writing happened that way as well. Because I'm a fan of pick something and go with it. If you're gonna come up with a concept for a film, you gotta stick with it the whole way through. Make sure that it's clear. This whole idea that the viewer gets to decide, oh gosh, it's like the ending to the Sopranos. It just doesn't hit exactly right for me. But boy, does it make it memorable, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_06 27:18

Here's where I struggle. I think maybe I'm just a buzzkill. I've never been high, so I also cannot imagine the fucking levels of imagination that fucking go into this. So I think maybe this is me being a stoic Capricorn party pooper. And I can accept that. That's fine. I don't like the ending of this movie. This movie, the ending broke it for me. And I think it's just the taste that you get in your mouth with where the narrative leaves itself. I'm just not crazy about it. I get it, it's probably the point. I understand that, but it's not for me.

SPEAKER_04 27:55

I find that so interesting because thinking on the macro level of how we review films and our opinions on the endings of a lot of the films that we've seen together, it's so interesting to me how it may come down to whether you like interpretive art or not, right? If if you want clear distinction of something, or if you like free thinking or imagination, in some instances you may feel more comfortable for that, in others you may not. And I think a lot of that might attribute to anxiety in general, right? Like when you have an anxious disorder, you want clear-cut answers to things because the unknown is what causes anxiety, right? Anxiety will feed off of it. And I think that's kind of maybe the approach that I'm looking at this ending, or just taking it all the way back to Donnie Dargo specifically, because it has really three interpretations, I could say, maybe more, but I'm thinking of three off the bat. You don't really know what is right, what isn't. So it could make you feel more anxious. It could make you feel more like, what the fuck did I just watch? For me, it makes me feel very emotional. It makes me feel like, wow, that was so symbolic. And I'm not trying to chalk it to one thing or the other, but I interpret this film in several different ways. I like the idea that I can imagine it could be X, Y, Z. And that's why I wanted to relate it to this particular David Lynch film, which I'm probably giving it away already. But there's one in particular that people will be fighting about what's real and what isn't. But I I think I kind of like that because it makes me combat my own anxiety, like my own anxious disorder.

SPEAKER_06 29:26

Yeah. See, it's interesting because I think for me it doesn't slice into anxiety at all. Like I didn't have any unknown or lack of stability or like settling in like what I interpreted to be happening. But what it did prey upon was my own fucking major depressive disorder. It it for sure wallowed in that and fucking stuck hard in that. And it gave me a similar feeling to how I reacted with the end of smile.

SPEAKER_01 29:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 29:55

And I think that's the big fucking problem for me.

SPEAKER_04 29:57

Yay!

SPEAKER_02 30:01

Interesting.

SPEAKER_04 30:02

There it is.

SPEAKER_02 30:04

I love the ending to this movie. I think it's bittersweet in a way. I think the song they chose was one of the most perfect fits in a movie ever. You can be left with slightly different feelings by the end of the movie, depending on which version you watched, theatrical cut or the director's cut, because I think the director's cut explains things a little bit more. Maybe I'm trying to remember the theatrical cut, but also there is a deleted scene that would most certainly change the feeling of this ending. So we'll have to get to that in the spoiler zone because I feel like, man, if they were to show that scene, it would leave you feeling a whole different way.

SPEAKER_06 30:40

Well, I'm excited to see how all these feelings shake out into our ratings. But before we actually score the film, Sean, how would you describe the gore score of a film that's just horror adjacent?

SPEAKER_02 30:51

What gore? Are we oh, we're talking about the eye poking incident. That's what we're talking about, right? Yeah. There was a smidgen of blood, but overall, this is a gore snore, and it's giving a low to no gore score.

SPEAKER_06 31:07

No, not the gore snore, the boar score, more I like it. How about the animal report?

SPEAKER_04 31:13

So, an animal death is mentioned in passing, never shown. And although that may be the case, actually, the scene itself is very dark and emotional, so I believe that it would make PETA tear up.

SPEAKER_06 31:26

Well, let's go ahead and get into our ratings then. Donnie Darko from 2001. Is it a hack or a slash?

SPEAKER_04 31:33

I'll go ahead and start us off since this is partially my fault, and I will acknowledge it.

SPEAKER_06 31:37

It's the fact that you said it's my fault that really starts off in such a hilarious direction.

SPEAKER_04 31:44

You know, because I'm I will be the martyr if I have to. I recognize that this film is probably, if not the most non-horror horror film that we've reviewed, or rather, is this even horror to begin with? Right? And and that's fine. But my argument was, as I will reiterate, it's an exceptional example of subject matter versus execution. So yeah, there is no gore. But I feel like when I watch this film sometimes, I am so emotionally challenged and tested that I feel like I've been stabbed 5,000 times, especially when I was younger watching this film. And I think it's withstood the test of time because it's taking depression, paranoia schizophrenia, mental illness, putting it in this sci-f sci-fi-esque world with very little explanation of what is real and what isn't. And then also includes these like religious undertones. So those are like those three things that I like to highlight when I talk about this film because it's a very intense culmination of very serious topics, right? And when you watch a teenager with severe mental illness unravel little by little and using sci-fi as a vehicle to kind of convey that, and then also incorporating religion that people turn to when they are suffering from these illnesses, you're doing a lot. It's very intense. And then you go ahead and you add comedy to it. You add a little bit of levity in there. You have the teenage angst, you have Jake Gyllenhall looking like every emo boy in the early 2000s. It's so many things. A soundtrack that's killer. I just feel like I would recommend this film for those that want to tow the line between horror and sci-fi, but I do want to give that trigger warning that the conversations and the feelings evoked are very dark. We're talking potential suicidal ideations. I mentioned the paranoid schizophrenia. There's a lot of intense subject matter here that you would want to keep in mind when you're seeing this film. And although it may not be as linear and clear as most horror and general films out there are, I think it has withstood the test of time because it's undoubtedly a slash that people can talk about for time and time again.

SPEAKER_02 33:57

Yeah, you know, Donnie Darko is one of those rare films that has managed to gain a fairly decent cult following of popularity that also manages to keep this underground feeling, I would say. This film sparked endless conversation that was held to such a high standard by so many when I was a teenager. This movie, Donnie Darko, and movies, even like SLC Punk or even Requiem for a Dream were just a few movies I can remember being hyped and talked about or referenced all the time in high school. And rightfully so. Donnie Darko is a truly thought-provoking film that evokes a dynamic range of emotions from you. This is partly due to the brilliantly written script and partly due to the acting and performances we get from these actors and actresses to really bring these characters to life. This film has many layers. This is a teenage coming-of-age story, a story about mental health, a story that explores, to your point, Binks religion and the supernatural, while not ruling out science fiction or anything like that. There is something beautifully terrifying about this film. And if you can have people talking about it and discussing theories after all these years, then you have to be doing something right. Donnie Darko has ultimately managed to like maintain this trendy underground feel that I believe is a bona fide cult classic. And even though it's not a horror movie, it is a time-twisting and mind-bending slash.

SPEAKER_00 35:30

It's hard to rate this movie without separating yourself from the people that love this movie too much. And those are the folks that can honestly ruin it for everybody else. Because I think the people who should enjoy this may be like most people, maybe like 70% of people, right? But in reality that gets lowered because there's like a 5% who I've already made some jokes here about pixies and, you know, drinking Americanos. There's nothing wrong with only owning black clothing, okay? I'll just say it. It's completely fine. But there is a vibe here where a lot of folks watch this movie and like to feel very different and like to feel weird and quirky and unique. And in reality, we just create kind of another niche where everyone is more of the same. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's all right. You know, I'm here for it. I love my great new balances, okay? I get it. But what I think you should do though is you have to separate that out. You just have to look at the film here and enjoy it for what it is. I like this movie. It's honestly really enjoyable to watch. I'm not bothered by any ambiguities that are there because for me, there's no ambiguity. I think it's very clear what goes on, and that comes down to the fact that what is going on is lumped into different buckets, and you have to accept the fact that the possibilities here are multiple and not just one. Cool. I'm here for it. I like cerebral films. I actually don't think it's that deep. I don't think it's as deep as a lot of people think it is. But as a film, I think we have an amazing cast. I think we have one of the most phenomenal soundtracks you could hear from the early 2000s. 100%. You've got some fantastic dialogue, you've got some great moments of comedy that we've already mentioned. The cinematography here does the job. There's even a moment where we turn from one side to the other 90 degrees, and I didn't get sick. And I'm gonna give it some good old credit for that. I think where you can fall into a trap is trying to make it too deep. It's got some depth to it, you know. Don't get the shovel out though. You don't have to go any deeper than that to really enjoy this. It doesn't define who you are as an individual or anything like that. But I think it was an awakening for a lot of folks who were looking for something else, and it led a lot of people to ask what if, and I love that because I'm a fan of sci-fi. We should be asking what if. And this movie gives you the permission to do that, and that makes it a slash.

SPEAKER_06 37:42

There's a lot of great stuff going on here, and I absolutely love that, especially with a good way to kick off October. And I want to circle back to a few things that you all have said throughout this episode, right? Being you describe this movie as nihilist. Sean, you mentioned that it's a mix of a great range of emotions, and depending on who you are, you can feel maybe seen, you can cry, you can laugh. The thing for me about this movie is how it strikes me with that emotional experience. And it strikes me emotionally in a way that's similar to the effect I felt from we need to talk about Kevin, and that's a feeling I don't like. It could be because this movie is hitting me in a time in my life where I've struggled with the weight of my own mental health more than I ever have. But it brings up a lot of memories of my own teenage experience with feeling isolated, misunderstood, and pressured. And I just don't give a damn about watching movies like that with young men in the foreground of that. It's just not interesting to me. It's not for for as relatable as the themes are, it is not a story that I feel is relatable. It just feels like it's kind of like just drudging up some shit that I don't really want to dwell in. And I think that's where it really is for me. There are people who, when sad, listen to sad music and want to wallow in it because it brings them comfort and makes them feel less alone and it makes them feel validated. And then there are people who, when sad, want to distract themselves and listen to something like a beat to reframe their mindset. I would say I'm somewhere in the middle of that experience, but I just don't want to wallow in it. This movie is certainly messy and it has a lot of good parts for sure. The cast is incredible. This movie is so much better than I remember it being when I first watched it a couple years ago. And I think really it's the epitome of no sense, just vibes, because this is the movie is more about how you're supposed to feel from the experience of watching it. But the problem is it's just I'm one of the I guess maybe few people that just don't feel great about it. I enjoy the Halloween setting for sure, but that's about all this movie's got going for me. So the real horror of this is the saturation of angst, and it's a hack. But with that, Donnie Darko has earned one hack and three slashes. But there's a lot more to discuss when we return from the break. Mac is already wowing at me. It's barely one of you guys. If you've already seen this one before, how would you rate it? Please let us know. You can join in the conversation for free in our Discord server, and you can find the specific link to join that conversation in our show notes. And if you haven't seen it yet, you're in luck, you can follow the link in our show notes to see where you can watch it right now. Now, when we return from our break, we'll dive into the spoiler zone territory and figure out just how wrong I am, apparently. We'll see you in a bit.

SPEAKER_02 40:35

Today's episode of Hacker Slash is brought to you by Frank's Temporal Fixers, the only service that guarantees to make your life better or worse. Stuck in a monotonous timeline? Wish you could go back and ace that math test, ask out your high school crush, or maybe just avoid that questionable dinner in a movie date. With Frank's Temporal Fixers, you can hop through the tangents of time and create the perfect or imperfect reality just for you. Our proprietary jet engine jump technology will have you slip in through wormholes faster than you can say 28 days, 6 hours, 42 minutes, and 12 seconds. But don't just take our word for it. Ask Donnie, our number one customer. He'll tell you it's a real life-changing experience. Warning, side effects may include seeing giant rabbits, existential dread, and questioning the nature of free will. If you start to feel like your reality is unraveling, just call Frank. Or don't, Frank's Temporal Fixers, because sometimes you need to go back to move forward, or forward to fix the back. We're not really sure.

SPEAKER_06 41:52

Welcome back, folks. You're now entering the spoiler zone for Donnie Darko, which has earned one hack and three slashes. Now we have a lot to unpack here, but before we get into the specifics of our ratings, let's go through those kills or something.

SPEAKER_02 42:07

Well, yeah, here's the thing. I'm gonna give this movie an observed three kills. I'm gonna give it an observed three kills. Two, I I think it's generous because two of the kills get reversed at the end, leaving us with one fully established kill in this movie. So if you're looking for a high kill count, this isn't the movie for you. Doesn't make it any less good though, and because we have such few kills, I think we just get into them and just talk about them. I'll kick it off because I want to start by saying that I didn't include Donnie's mom and sister, right? Rose and Samantha, because even though it's like, I guess it's more of like an assumptive or presumed death, right? But we just don't get to really, really see it on film. And it's just another one that's reversed. So, you know, I just want to say I struggled with it. I struggled with it.

SPEAKER_00 42:56

Ah, the good old magic of temporal loops and time travel and paradoxes, because at the end of this movie, she doesn't die, right? It is prevented, but it it makes you think about it, which is fun, you know?

SPEAKER_04 43:10

Is it fun? Yes.

SPEAKER_02 43:12

It just doesn't make it just doesn't make sense because it everything gets reversed, right? Then Cunningham still goes to LA or whatever, they still get on the plane and take these girls, no?

SPEAKER_00 43:25

Ah. Okay, but do we remember that they took the red eye? They specifically took the red eye to come back, and that's the flight.

SPEAKER_02 43:34

Oh, it's the red eye of it all.

SPEAKER_00 43:36

And with the fact that Donnie gets squished by at the end of this movie means that whole chain of events is completely thrown off. Yes. This is one of those like fun temporal like paradox things that happens in sci-fi constantly, which is like if you go back and stop yourself from eating an apple because it tasted gross, right?

SPEAKER_03 43:55

Right.

SPEAKER_00 43:56

Why would you have ever gone back to stop yourself from eating the apple? Because you never ate it. It wasn't gross, et cetera, et cetera. But this is abstracting that out. And we want to take a look at that time in between. That's this whole movie is, but what if it still happens, even though it's undone, even though it technically never happened? That side quest makes things interesting. Definitely. And so Samantha's death technically it counts because it happened, but in reality it didn't really happen. But you know, that's what's going on here.

SPEAKER_06 44:24

What in the final decimation?

SPEAKER_00 44:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 44:27

I love it.

SPEAKER_00 44:28

As far as kills go, though, I think there's one that like emotionally hits because the way they show it is so quick and it actually feels really natural. It feels as dismissive as an accident would feel in real life. And that's Gretchen's. There's a movie that came out about Hollywood, Florida called Bully. I don't know if you have seen this at all, but it's based on a real life situation where a group of teens kills one of their friends because he's a bully. And it's that death in that movie just hits with a quickness and hits with a feeling of reality. And when Gretchen dies here, it is just it's like a ragdoll effect where she's like immediately just thrown away. But at the same time, when you're watching it, it feels like that's a real human being getting run over. And that's it. Split second, we're done. And I think that's one of the most effective styles to go with because it's like it actually kind of hits you like, oh no, like, oh my god, that hurt.

SPEAKER_06 45:21

Yeah, she had my favorite kill in the movie. Although this first time I watched it and I realized who she was, I was like, damn, the odds really were not in her favor. R.I.P. Gretchen.

SPEAKER_02 45:32

Wow. R.I.P. Donnie's death, right, is like the only real kill by the end of everything, right? Donnie is the one that dies, and I think it's arguably super impactful, but the deleted scene I was alluding to was the a deleted scene from the end of this movie where it involves this actual kill. And you see Donnie still alive but dying slowly after the jet engine or a piece of the jet engine impales him in the wreck through like the wreckage of it all. And I feel like this would have been an even more heartbreaking scene. I don't know if it would make the film feel. I I mean, I gotta imagine the film as a whole wouldn't feel any different, but the ending for what the film gave you, I feel like it would be super jarring and super harrowing.

SPEAKER_04 46:21

Well, it probably would have really solidified itself in the horror genre at that point. I would have had a much stronger stance and evidence to prove my take. But yeah, I think that his death obviously is the most impactful because at the bigger level, when we're analyzing the film as a whole and what it means, I know that of course Mac it may seem very like cutthroat where it's sci-fi and parallel universes and and such, but let's consider the mental illness of it all, which I don't like to just say that because it seems like it's a cop-out in some ways. But if we think of that route where it's all his mental illness manifesting itself and all these are delusions and whatnot, him essentially sacrificing himself as a means to give himself purpose, right? To be this hero, that's the part where empathy comes into play and caring for others. It's so sad because then we're talking about something very, very dark, darker than the entire film altogether, and that's suicide, right? So it's just like oof, it's a tough thing to think about. And so if we were to see him being impaled, like all of that grotesque nature, right? God, how fucked would that be?

SPEAKER_02 47:36

Right. And still alive and dying.

SPEAKER_04 47:39

Don't know if I would love that. Oh boy. Would that make it a horror though? I'm trying to have to take it back to that, but I'm just saying it would help my case.

SPEAKER_00 47:48

It does remind me, there was there's been a couple movies that have done this, but there's one that I remember from the 2000s or 20 teens or something, where the entire film is revealed to be taking place during a character's death after a car accident or during a car accident or something, where they're going through some like really zany situation, and in the end it's revealed that it's technically all happening in the last couple moments after uh a collision, which is an interesting take. I know a lot of people like to think about this film as him processing what's going on potentially in the last couple moments as this thing comes crashing down. I kind of discard that. I just don't feel it's as fun because I'm a sci-fi nerd. Sure. I like to stick with the whole temporal paradox thing. I think that makes it more up my alley, but it is an interesting take, I think, on his death. I think in the end, if you go with the sci-fi take though, I think there's an easy way here to get out of it, which is roll to the other side so he doesn't get crushed and then look at Gretchen and turn and walk the other way. The question is, would that be sadder for you? That would that be a sadder ending than what happens here? I don't know. It's a tough one to answer, but I think though when you look at interviews and stuff and you read some stuff with with the director and and of course with other people on the casting crew, the idea that like of what actually happened here, they like the idea that there's multiple answers to this. Of course. And that you can, as a singular person, contain both of those concepts within you because you gain more from that idea, which is fun.

SPEAKER_02 49:17

Yeah, I mean that's what I feel like people gravitated to. I think that's what made this movie super popular was people trying to find different ways to explain why it happened, how it happened, and the meaning behind it all.

SPEAKER_00 49:31

Or did it happen?

SPEAKER_02 49:32

Or did it happen at all? Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 49:34

I don't know. That's treading on dangerous, it was all a dream territory, which I'm not fucking okay with.

SPEAKER_02 49:40

Yeah, that's true. But it is a possibility. It is a possibility. I'll tell you what I really enjoyed in this film, and it was all the little Easter eggs, no pun intended for this film, because all of these Easter eggs surround rabbits. You truly tons of little bunnies to find in this film, which I think is really fun if you're re-watching this film and you've seen it a couple of times. But you have the song that is playing in the I think it's in the theatrical cut, The Killing Moon by Echo and the Bunny Man, right? That's like an obvious one. You have a Volkswagen rabbit driving by Gretchen as she is waiting for the bus, right? So you have that little, that little tidbit there. There's a stuffed rabbit next to Elizabeth when she's sleeping in the chair. There's a moment when Donnie is reaching for his car keys, and you can see a Polaroid photo of him and his sister in Halloween costumes where Donnie's dressed like a rabbit. There's a bunny jack-o'-lantern somewhere in this movie, I remember. And for whatever reason, Frank appears near water sources and shit shit like that. It's just a very this it's an interesting thing, but I do think all of the little bunnies in this film was just a cool little touch. You know? It was a cool little touch to just try to find those little things.

SPEAKER_06 50:58

Yeah. It was completely lost on me, and it does make me maybe 3% more inclined to give this another shot and try to discover all of those, but that's the classic Sean effect here. I think Frank is the best-looking thing in this whole damn movie.

SPEAKER_02 51:14

It is so good.

SPEAKER_06 51:15

Even Frank unmasked with a bloody eye.

SPEAKER_02 51:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 51:18

Top notch.

SPEAKER_02 51:19

But that bunny mask.

SPEAKER_00 51:21

I want to go back to the Easter egg thing that Sean mentioned, only to point out that there's it does go deeper, Chris. So if you end up doing a rewatch, look for even more. Another one to look for is the FAA guy. You're gonna see him. He also is the guy smoking in a running suit. He's also in five or six other shots in the film doing completely other different things. So it goes further.

SPEAKER_06 51:43

Listen, there's only one rabbit I care about, and that's the rabbit in red lounge from Halloween 1978. Okay. That's it.

SPEAKER_00 51:50

Well, I'll go ahead and throw out my favorites, my favorite thing here to look at or to hear was definitely the soundtrack. And what's interesting about it is you mentioned that it doesn't really feel like the time it was set in, but that's okay because I mean you kind of get this kind of timeless feeling about this movie once you realize it's supposed to be set in 1988. It's like whatever. But the soundtrack here is what takes it back to feeling like a timeless teenage movie. It feels like those 80s, you know, or some of those even 90s like high school movies, because the soundtrack is not tied to 2002. The music in 2002 wasn't necessarily great. And so I think it was a good choice to kind of go back in time to get some better music. And they picked some really good music to go with here. But while you're watching it, they'll just throw out a song and you'll be like, holy cow, that's a good choice here. Especially, of course, Mad World. But I think Mad World gets too much credit here. Yes, it perfectly matches, it's fantastic, it's a wonderful little scene there, but the rest of the film has some really solid tracks.

SPEAKER_04 52:51

The Tears for Fears of It All is some of my favorite stuff. Uh aside from Killing Moon and the Bunny Man reference there. Tears for Fears is is exceptional. But yeah, the whole soundtrack is fantastic and I listen to it constantly. The other thing I'll say is cinematography top-notch, my opinion. I think that there are several stills here that I think about often because of how creepy Jake Gyllenhaal looks, especially when he's in the bathroom staring at the mirror, and when it goes back and forth between Frank and him. Granted, the CGI is not the best, of course, but the lighting is really good when r you see Frank from a distance, and it reminds me of a lot of things that we've seen in past horror films, and obviously thrillers and horrors that we've seen afterwards, right? An ominous figure in the distance, a weird costume that just doesn't seem right, even if it is in October, it just makes you feel unsettled in a suburban area. It's just very weird, and I love that, and I think it's really great that not only the name Donnie Darkle stands the test of time, but particular shots in this film stand the test of time. The three of them in the movie theater is probably one of the famous still most famous stills from this film and from the early 2000s in terms of media. So I I would have several moments of this film framed in my house if I could. I think it's really, really good. Cinematography. I mean, we're talking about several things, whether it be the look of Frank, whether it be the soundtrack, the production element in terms of this film in general is some good stuff.

SPEAKER_06 54:27

You know, it makes you mention the movie theater scene, and it's actually one of my favorite scenes in the movie. But I do have a little special shout out for that later in the episode, so I'm gonna hold for it now. My other favorite scene, this is just a backup here. As basic as this is, it's gonna be the opening uncomfortable dinner scene. Because where this movie is very much like a like a lack of horror. There are moments where it can almost feel boring at times, but this cast and the family dynamic is what keeps it from being boring. So to have such a quotable dinner, you're such a fuck ass, you can go suck a fuck. All of it is honestly hilarious, and I don't know that I'm super high on Jake Gyllenhaal and Maggie Gyllenhaal. Nothing really against them, but seeing them together as siblings in a movie where they're siblings going at each other is just such a charming moment that you can't help but love, especially with a clueless father, and just looking at even the dynamic between Rose and her husband, 10 out of 10, all around. Some of the best character work in this movie comes from that portion of the cast, and I loved it.

SPEAKER_04 55:38

Yeah, that's definitely an incredible scene. Also, because the way that Elizabeth talks about who she's voting for at the dinner table, like it's a way to take a jab at her parents that, to be quite frank, in present day, absolutely something that still is very relevant that I see often that people do with their parents or with their loved ones. Let me just go ahead and bring politics up at the dinner table just to really fuck with you. That's what Elizabeth is doing. And then when you add in the layer of that they're actually siblings, they're being, you know, that banter that they're having and taking it a step further underneath the hood that Richard Kelly uses this whole fuck ass thing based off of interactions that his friends would have. Like they would use the word fuck ass all the time and suck a fuck like constantly. So it's like he adds so much of himself and the things that he's experienced into what is something that everyone can relate to. And I love that. I love that about that scene in particular. I obviously have so many favorite scenes, that definitely being one of them. But I will highlight the therapy session, not to get dark, but I will because I'm me, where Donnie talks about the concept of being alone and how he doesn't bother debating whether he actually is or whether it's true or not, because what does it all matter? I mentioned the animal in the animal report about recounting his dog's death because it is so sad how he uses his dog passing away as an example of how we all end up dying alone, because that's something that I think a lot of us as pet owners can relate to. How horrific it feels when you lose your pet and how especially dogs, how they act and what they do prior to their death, right? And so when he's unpacking that and attaching it to us as humans and how we perceive death and how we process that, how we also maybe don't even believe in God anymore, how we abandon our faith in those elements, that is such real dark shit. And we're I I almost feel like I see that scene and I'm watching something that I shouldn't. I'm intruding someone's extreme private life and their the privacy of their mind and how they're feeling on the inside. So I know it's kind of fucking crazy to say it's a favorite scene because it's very dark, but I do love it because I think it's an opportunity for us to see something being discussed that we probably just think inside our heads, you know? I think we all kind of struggle and grapple with this idea of death a lot. And so to see it unfold in in the movie and being discussed in that way kind of feels warm, right? Like I feel like, damn, in my darkest days I've felt that way, and now I'm seeing it being discussed and someone gets me.

SPEAKER_00 58:22

It's tough for me to watch a lot of the scenes with with the good doctor because I just feel like she's such a terrible therapist. And I don't know if it's because not everyone knows the ins and outs of mental health and everything, but I feel like if any of us were to go to this person, we would be like, Oh, you're trash, I'm out of here, real quick.

SPEAKER_03 58:40

Right. Right.

SPEAKER_04 58:42

Oh, absolutely, absolutely. And the questions that she poses, and even the way that she discusses his mental health with her his parents, it seems like it lacks so much emotion. It's very cold.

SPEAKER_02 58:54

It's off-putting in a way.

SPEAKER_04 58:56

Meanwhile, you see his perspective, it's off-putting, yeah. No, that too. Absolutely. And in the director's cut, oh my god, exceptional. That for sure is like, oh, this bitch.

SPEAKER_00 59:05

Yeah, she's deliberately doing things to make him worse. And that is absolutely crazy to me. But I like a scene in which somebody is trying to do something to make him better, and that's when actually it's a I guess a combination of a couple of scenes, but when he's talking to Dr. Monitov, his teacher, his professor, and they're discussing the what-ifs of time travel and and physics. One, Noah Wiley's just great here. But when they reach that point where Donnie poses a question and and they get into a discussion and they mention God, and his reaction where he says that he can no longer have this talk with him because he could lose his job, it felt like one of the most real moments of this movie with a teacher who's at a spot where they're like, I want to help this kid grow, but like I am now endangering us if I continue just literally a conversation with them. And it just felt it felt so real. It felt like one of those like really good teachers that people latch on to who has to know when to set that boundary. Unlike his girlfriend or wife or whatever she was earlier in the movie, you know, sit next to the boy you find the cutest. She did not understand um, you know, healthy boundaries with your students. No, but it was still fun. It was still fun to watch her interact with Gretchen.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:19

I'm telling you, her never been kissed for showing.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:22

Gosh.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:22

I could see it. I think I already talked about it, but I said I love the ending. I think it's one of the best parts. I think the entirety of the ending, all of the scenes closing out this film are my favorite scenes. The tragedy that befalls the ones closest to Donnie, the decision to time travel back to the beginning and stay in his bed, the level of happiness, if we can call it that, that Darko has as he lies in bed waiting to die and get crushed by that jet engine. And it's just that. It's the sequence of everyone having that feeling of remembrance in a way, the reactions from the parents and the family, and then the final moment where Gretchen locks eyes with Rose and they have this strange connection that neither of them can really explain. It was just such a great sequence of scenes that ultimately ended this movie that I just feel like we're just masterfully done. The soundtrack adding to that, of course, we already talked about that. It's just it was one of the best scenes in the movie or multitude of scenes in the movie. I do think when we talk about some of the comedy, I love there's so much there's some relatable shit in here too. There's the stuff that doesn't age well, but then there's also this mix where they're like waiting at the bus stop and they are lighting and smoking those cigarettes. I don't know. I have been there smoking in high school, and the fact that these kids were like trying to hype these cigarettes like this is some quality premium shit right here, like it's a fucking joint or something. And Donnie's reaction is probably the exact reaction that I would have had in that moment because as I watch this movie, I say that on instinct. I literally say, It's a fucking cigarette. Like, what are you talking about, bro? It's just goddamn cigarette.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:05

Oh, that the end of this movie, you know, we can talk about the engine falling and everything, but those moments where they show characters living through the memory of a dream is the only way to describe it, where they are left either just deeply affected emotionally or with the feeling of, why don't I remember why I remember something is such a great part that they don't show enough of or they don't go maybe deep enough with because you know, even Jim Cunningham, who's laying there crying after feeling something, maybe he's feeling horrible for what he all did. You know, we were chatting in the chat here a moment ago about does he get pushed to repent? That would be amazing. Statistically, probably not, but it's something where these characters who've been affected by this other universe here are left with an echo of it. And that I think is more impactful than just showing that, okay, one life was changed, it's all these other lives were changed and they don't even know why.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:02

And that's a big part of the concept of time travel and parallel universes, right? Because I think Richard Kelly was saying, take this idea that perhaps in another universe something has happened to you, and so that doesn't negate your universe as well, right? So both things were true at some point in time. Not to bring up stranger things, but stranger things, you know, like that's a big concept there that in modern day we can use as a reference. He had brought up that, in particular, that last scene where Gretchen is waving at Donnie's mom. That actually is something that happened to him once where he was waving at, or rather, like he saw this woman in a window, I believe, and he was just they were just staring at each other, and he eventually just waved high, and it was like a weird feeling of like, do we know each other? And we've all been there, right? And so it's deja vu in its plainest form, I suppose. And so I think it's kind of cool to incorporate that in what is a time travel or parallel universe sci-fi related film. But yeah, there's so much comedy in here. There's so much comedy. The Smurfs thing. The Smurfs. What the fuck was that? I loved it. It thought it was so ridiculous. And really the peak riz, I have to say, in terms of Donnie and and Gretchen as characters and their dynamic, is when she's talking to him, trying to talk a little bit more about herself, talking about her parents, and she says, My dad has emotional problems, and Donnie's so happy, he's like, Yeah, I have them too. He feels seen, and then it's like, Oh yeah, but my dad actually stabbed my mom several times. It is that instant, like, oh fuck.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:39

Honestly, that was I think one of the highest points of Jake Jillen Hall's performance in this movie, and it's such a small moment, and yes, there's like a lot more serious shit. He has a lot of great monologues in this movie, but wow, the comedy in that moment, but also the really sad emotional roller coaster, like, oh yeah, me too. And then it's like at one point, it's like, okay, well, no, it's not that bad. Or is it like, is that what's ahead of me? There's so many different ways that you can interpret that, and that is the multiple routes of interpretation that I can enjoy. Like, what is going through a character's mind in a moment versus well, it's a whole fucking movie about Chris.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:17

So you mentioned earlier that Jake Gyllenhaal and Maggie, right? Brother and sister in real life coming together for this film. And I just feel like you mentioned how the dynamic of their sibling rivalry was it felt real, and I think that added a special touch to the film. I think it was an interesting choice. I wonder what it would have felt like because there were other choices before Jake got this role. I think Vince Vaughn was of originally almost in the running for this, and Mark Wahlberg, of all fucking people, was gonna potentially be in this movie. I think Vince turned it down because he just he actually did feel like he was too old for this role, so thank God he didn't do it. I don't know about Mark, but I just think, man. If one of those two or anybody else were to be in the role of Donnie Darko, would the dynamic of this brother and sister been the same? I it it just couldn't have been.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:10

Okay. Mark Wahlberg, Donnie Wahlberg, two brothers instead of a brother and sister.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:15

Oh god.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:16

God, no, throw it away. No way. No way. I know that Jake Gyllenhaal, this is his second film ever. And I mean, I would not nothing against the first one, but to me, this is when people ask me, like, oh, what's Jake Gyllenhaal's first film? I'm like, eh, this one. That you know of. Yeah, it's this one. And I think that Jake Gyllenhaal basically told Richard Kelly, I want it to be my sister. I think it'd be a good idea if it was my sister. And I love that because the bel the believability and the credibility of that scene and their chemistry is right there, written. I do want to give a a fun fact, if I could just nerd out on Jake Gyllenhaal real quick. We reviewed The Orphan earlier this year. And famously, we hate Peter Sarsgaard's character, you know, the dad in Orphan. And I love that fun fact. Uh, that is Jake Gyllenhaal's brother-in-law. He's married to Maggie Gyllenhaal. And if you haven't seen Presum's Innocence on Apple TV, I recommend it greatly because they are in the in it together, and their chemistry as rivals, but in reality, brothers, is real good. That's range to me. Because like you actually love each other, but in the show you fucking despise each other. And I kind of like that. Again, the opposite, right? Where they're family, and so as siblings, you're gonna fight, maybe disagree and say some shit. So it's the same. But in the dynamic of acting with maybe another relative to some extent, right? And having to pay polar opposites of how you actually feel about each other is very interesting.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:48

I just can't imagine anyone else in this role. Like the idea of another actor here is like replacing Vincent D'Nafrio in Full Metal Jacket. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:55

Oh God.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:56

Would not hit. It would not be the same, and it wouldn't be right. This is right for better or for worse. This is who Donnie Darko is, is Jake Gyllenhaal. And I think for him to be so young and to really show as much as he's able to show here was perfect. Sometimes that means he's not showing anything. He has to have a flat effect in certain situations. He even has that same Vincent G'Nafrio kind of stare where he's slightly tilted down in those moments where he's zoned out and focusing on Frank. And it worked really well because you didn't just imagine he was hypnotized by Frank. You felt that he was affected. He was really pulled in and out of control in those moments. And such a young guy, and he he really kind of nailed it.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:37

Yeah, it's like the pendulum swing of apathy and empathy with him constantly in the film from beginning to end. And also just to think about how he did bubble boy after this is hilarious. How do you go from Donnie Darko to Bubble Boy? Bubble Boy.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:51

Is it the same bubble boy that I'm thinking about? Oh, it is.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:56

Is there more than one bubble boy?

SPEAKER_06 1:08:58

Unless you know of another there is more than one bubble boy.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:03

There is more than one fucking bubble boy.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:06

I'm sorry. What? Not the same title, but the same premise.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:10

Just thinking Seinfeld.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:12

Oh, yeah. Okay, yeah. Okay. So I'm not thinking about Bubble Boy, but I am thinking about the 1976 film The Boy in the Plastic Bubble, which is a John Travolta film.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:25

Wow.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:26

Television drama film.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:28

Interesting.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:29

Why I've seen this? Couldn't fucking tell you.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:32

Hasn't seen Donnie Darko until 2021, but has seen Boy in a plastic bubble. The jokes write themselves.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:39

That no one has fucking seen ever.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:42

And no one's ever seen it.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:43

Fantastic.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:44

No one's even heard of it.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:45

I love it.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:45

Not even John Travolta. He forgot he was in the movie.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:48

If there's anything more absurd than this bubble boy bullshit, it's Seth Rogan doing fucking coke in the middle of the high school fucking hallway as his teacher or dean walks by because literally what the fuck? This just would not. I just don't think this would be happening in school. This is really a reach for just doing bumps at the lockers, you know? That's just wild. Absolutely wild.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:12

Maybe it was the hot new thing. Nobody knew what it was.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:15

It all kind of adds up, like the way characters act here, so free and loose, totally adds up when you like remember that this is an 80s movie. Because the stories I've heard of people going to high school in the 80s are absolutely insane. In the 2000s, nothing here would fly. Nothing. Even those uniforms wouldn't fly, they wouldn't be approved. But like the way that they're acting, the bullies, the way that they act, pretty much in line with what I've heard about 80s high school bullies having the knife and everything, you know. The only difference here is if it were truly like in the 80s, the teachers would be the ones like pushing you up against a locker or against a wall and yelling at you.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:50

Drew Barrymore seemed like she wanted to push someone up against the wall.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:54

Oh boy. Thirsty teacher.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:56

Hey yo. It was weird. It was weird. Love Drew Barrymore, but it was weird.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:01

You know, she was given off strange vibes, much like most people in this movie. Most people were given off strange vibes. I'll tell you what, though, I'll commend Patrick Swayze because he wore all his own clothes from the 80s in this movie. Literally didn't. He's like, wardrobe? Nah, hold on. Let me just let me just go into my closet. I got you.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:22

Good for him being able to still fit into it in the 2000s.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:25

Patrick Swayze in this movie is such a curveball. One, it's not an actor you would imagine to be in this movie. And then two, the character he plays. I wonder if he read the script and was like, well, of course I could do that, but would anyone expect me to do it? Of course not. I'm in.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:41

That was the deciding factor.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:43

I think he frosted his hair for the role, too.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:47

Really?

SPEAKER_04 1:11:48

Yeah, apparently. He really was dedicated to the bit, and I appreciate it because I think you kind of have to be in order to literally be portrayed as Satan. Like, God, the religious undertones of this film also are just out of hand. That's a whole other like 17 minutes that I would need. But it's him basically being, let's, if we want to go like the religious route, right? Like him being the personification of Satan is hilarious because it's Patrick Swayze for Christ's sake.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:16

I'll tell you what though, I do like a little bit of foreshadowing. And I think it was pretty clever, like Donnie's dad having the conversation with his mom Rose in in bed after the incident earlier on in the film, and they're talking about how he narrowly missed this and how he, you know, he's not doomed like this other kid he was talking about, but you know, it eventually does kill him and he is doomed after all. I I just love that little foreshadowing in there. So I'll commend them for that.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:44

I think that seems really cool because even if you listen intently to the background, like the news speaking about the incident, they're talking about how it just makes zero sense. The entire thing was intact. I love that part because it adds to the this is not normal. And at the very beginning of the film, too, when they open the fridge and the dry race board says, Where is Donnie? It's kind of to me, I at least on this viewing, I was like, Oh yeah, that's very much like where is he? His mental state in terms of the bigger picture of what Donnie do we have in this universe versus the parallel universes. It's very interesting.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:19

Yeah. I do love, man, Rose had some sass. She had this subtle attitude. It was kind of witty. It was kind of fun to watch, like her reactions to certain things, her reactions, even just her body language when they were in like the parent-teacher conference or whatever the fuck they were doing, maybe a town hall or whatever. She just had these reactions when it cut to her as people were talking that I thought was she was just sitting there, like, oh really? That's clever. Oh, that's interesting. You know what I mean? And then her dynamic with her friend, right? And just their little bickering back and forth, like they they tolerate each other because their kids are friends, their kids are in the same dance group, they're tied together because of school activities and things like that, but they secretly hate each other.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:04

Oh, yeah. And the it's the suburban mom loathing that really underscores her character nicely. But I also just have this affinity for that very charming moment where she walks out of Donnie's room and he calls her a bitch, and that's fucking terrible. And you know that hurts her, and she like pauses for a moment as if to decide, do I want to go back in there and start some shit?

unknown 1:14:29

Right.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:29

Do I want to go handle this business, or am I gonna walk away? And you know that no matter what, that still hurts her. She goes back to bed, tells her husband what happened, and this motherfucker says, You're bitching, but you're not a bitch. Another great line from this film.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:44

It's so good. I do love how supportive and caring Donnie's parents are with his mental health situation. Like, I will say that they both fully support him. They're struggling on what to do, but they both, you can tell, actually do deeply care for their son.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:02

Which is almost why this makes it more infuriating for me. It's just annoying. Because it's almost as if I don't get enough of this is just who Donnie is and this is his mental illness. And I know that the movie tries to paint it that way and tries to write it that way, but there's something about this in the execution of it that really does just seem like teenage edgelord who is in a loving, supportive environment, has all the tools to be successful, and still chooses to be fucking miserable. And again, I know that is not what they're going for here, but it still feels that way. Maybe because Jake Jillen Hall is Jake Gyllenhaal. Great performance, but I cannot unsee Jake Gyllenhaal.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:43

Wow. Did you just call Jake Jyllenhall an edgelord?

SPEAKER_06 1:15:47

Essentially, I'm calling Donnie an Edgelord because Jake Gyllenhaal is so pretty.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:51

Whoa, I've been slapped.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:53

I know.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:54

Here it is.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:55

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:56

And that's fair. And you know what? You have the Taylor Swifties in your corner for that, so that's fine.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:02

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:02

The Swifties.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:03

I'll give you that. I'll give you that. They feel strongly about this film.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:07

Yeah. Charita Chen as a character, I think, is interesting. I just want to ask, does she know something's up with Donnie? Does she know a little more than we think?

SPEAKER_06 1:16:16

I don't know that she knows more, and this is just my dumb bullshit of not being very deep in this movie. It just feels like one of those moments where she is someone who is living her life, kind of flying under the radar, is ridiculed by other people, people fucking rake her over the coals with um these jokes about her, her accent, or things like that. And she is another person who is potentially as or maybe just slightly less alone as Donnie. And I think she sees a kindred spirit in him, and that's maybe what that attraction is. Like she has a huge crush on him. She's writing his his name down in school, and it seems like one of those things of you know, how much did he have to go through before he ever noticed that? And how different could things have been for him, even if there's nothing ever romantic for them, but could he have had a friend much earlier?

SPEAKER_00 1:17:10

And I think it's important that he does eventually realize like what part she plays in his life, where she is this angelic figure the entire film, showing him the goodness, not by telling it to him, not by having to do anything, but simply existing and for seeing him. And when he sees her for that just that first moment when he finally realizes that he sees her, that's when stuff starts to change, and his outlook of what he needs to do and how he looks at other people. And I know it's towards the end of the film here, but that's really when it finally clicks for him that he needs to be focused on other people in a different way than he has been in the past. I mean, he could have stood up for her early on. He he did in a way, but not really strongly enough. And when he gets to that moment where he realizes that she exists, she's a person, I'm not the main character. You know, I think that is only helped along by the fact that that's how she thinks about him. I see him, he exists. He obviously has some stuff going on. She sees it, right? But she doesn't let that sway her.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:13

Yeah. It's less about does she know that something is up with Donnie and more so that she's a mirror reflecting back all the right things to him.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:23

Yeah, kind of like that innocence and that angelic representation when he is like in this in-between, right? In terms of, you know, if we want to go to the religious theory and that kind of unpacking, right? When I mentioned that Patrick Swayze's character is Satan, and then all of these other like innuendos to like the three, I think it's like the three major sins and stuff like that, and her wearing like being this angelic figure in the play, and then him whole like wearing her little earmuffs as kind of like equipping himself with that joy, with that innocence to then do the hard thing is very interesting. So she's so sweet. And it is kind of tough when you rewatch this film sometimes and how she gets treated at the beginning because it's like, oh, that's the stuff that's like, oh, that's I know don't love that. Don't love it.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:09

It felt unnecessary. The three temptations of Christ.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:12

Thank you. Yes, the three temptations of Christ. Exactly. Alcohol, sex, and drugs, I think is the other one.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:18

Fornication, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:19:20

You said temptations, and I was just thinking about the musical group, the temptations.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:24

So I mean, those were not the temptations given to Jesus, but those were these are the temptations that Donnie has fallen into.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:30

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:31

And it's so interesting that Patrick Swayze's character, Jim Cunningham, is sitting there preaching against them. That is such a fun little irony in the film. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:42

And that's where, since we're talking about this right now, I'll reference because I don't want to end the episode not mentioning the David Lynch film, because wouldn't that be a bitch? The David Lynch film that I think that this reminds me of, that is my favorite, is Moholl and Drive. Oh, yeah. I love that movie uh a little too much, potentially. And it is Moholland Drive is is extremely famous because people stay up at night staring at the ceiling, trying to still make sense as to what the fuck was real and what wasn't. And so I feel like Donnie Darko doesn't have the same effect as Moholl and Drive because it's not a Lynch film. I'm not don't come after me, folks, but I'm just saying the concept that you don't necessarily know what is the truth and what isn't, to the point that we've talked about multiple times that the director is against what maybe the actors believe and whatnot. It just gave me that idea. And granted, Maholland Drive is after Donnie Darko, but Lynch is just known to do this in general. So I feel like I I definitely got that vibe, mostly because I just watched Maholland Drive recently. So that's the film it reminded me of.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:46

It's a good one. I haven't seen that in years.

SPEAKER_06 1:20:48

But speaking of other films, I want to point out the moment that is the best part of this whole movie. And it is when they're in the movie theater watching an actual horror movie.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:21:00

As goofy as that shit was. Because it not only puts in a horror movie, it not only puts in the evil dead, but it puts in the best moment from the evil dead, where that fucking swinging porch chair and its knocking sets a rhythmic beat for everything else. They borrowed that shit. And honestly, great job. Because it made that moment much more eerie.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:29

There's something I want to show you.

SPEAKER_06 1:21:31

They said, Let me show you a real horror movie.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:34

But can we talk about how there's no way on this planet that only three or two of them would be in a theater for Evil Dead? Even I know that.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:42

Yeah, I don't know. You never know.

SPEAKER_06 1:21:44

Really? On Halloween Week in the 80s? Evil Dead in the 80s that came out in the early 80s. This is 1988.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:51

Yeah, it would have been like seven years old or some shit. Somewhere six or seven years old. Maybe it's just a little double feature. You know? I don't know. I really don't want to pick a worse part of this movie, but if I have to, I'm not gonna cop do a cop out. I'm not gonna do a cop-out and do this thing where I said my disappointment with some of the jokes that were that just didn't age well. I'm gonna go ahead and say it was the use of CGI for these time trails or whatever they're calling it, because I just don't think they looked very good. It didn't age that also did not age well with this film. I don't mind the concept of it. I just didn't like the look of it. But I wanna just say that and I want to brush it aside because I am going to cheat and also share a best part of this movie. And I think the best part of this movie is, at least for me, all of the fucking theories that I've heard over the years. And just to elaborate, because I know we've talked about like some of the religious ones, but just to give you a couple of examples, because what is a Donnie Darko conversation without some debate on the meaning of the film, right? There is a couple of theories that have always kind of stood out to me. There's a theory that the entirety of the events in this film, from the moment Donnie sees Frank for the first time to the moment that he's on the cliff, is all a vision of the future. And so on October 2nd, we are introduced to Frank's ghost, I guess we'll call it, who Donnie later kills, you know, whatever, and he has just time traveled back to guide Donnie and show him the events of what happens in order to save his own life.

SPEAKER_06 1:23:23

Okay, hold on. Just to make sure I'm understanding this shit correctly. Donnie Darko is Ebenezer Scrooge, and Frank is the ghost of Halloween Future.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:32

Essentially. Essentially, yes. You can yes, essentially. And then Binks, there you go, you have a ghost. That's horror. So that's cool. So we're just checking boxes for Binks right now.

SPEAKER_06 1:23:42

He's feeling less original. Halloween Carol.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:45

There is also a theory that this is all the work of aliens, and that they are using Donnie as some sort of martyr for this prime universe, we'll call it. I'm assuming that this tangent universe is threatening to destroy these aliens or something, or it's just threatening to destroy their planet or something like that. And this theory also says that oddly enough, Charita Chen is an alien who is stuck in the tangent universe, and that the manipulated dead are sick of seeing her, and that's why they treat her so poorly and tell her to go like back to China and all that shit. And I don't know, that's a far-fetched, that one's a reach, but I have heard the alien pitch. I have heard the alien pitch. It's interesting. That one's way too far-fetched. It's interesting. But it there's also the theory that Donnie is just stuck in a time loop and that the entire duration of the film is the length of just this time loop. Like Donnie is attempting to save this universe by stopping this tangent universe. It further suggests that this is not the first time that Donnie has been in this loop and has failed multiple times. I think it it also states that the closest characters to Donnie are sort of guiding him in the right direction throughout the film. You see like certain behaviors. Gretchen exhibits strange and convenient behaviors, including falling asleep during the Evil Dead, like because who the fuck falls asleep in Evil Dead and just happens to sleep through the entirety of him going to burn Cunningham's house down and then come back and just conveniently wakes up right when he comes back, right? So that's interesting. The therapist only giving him the placebo water pills, right, to monitor his relationship with Frank or the science teacher Mac you were talking about, who won't carry on in the time travel conversation, which could be as simple as as what we're alluding to like this is a private school that could be religious, or he's just being careful and doesn't want to lose his job, or it could be that he doesn't want to sway Donnie in the wrong direction. We just don't know. These are all just people that could be guides in a sense, right? And so I don't know. The theories go on and on. That's a few that have stuck with me over the years. It could be as straightforward as what we see in the movie, but I really enjoy hearing what people get out of this movie, which is I think part of the reasons what makes this movie super special. Donnie does have this sort of supernatural connection to the ghost of Frank. I I don't know. It's just a wild, wild time, and I just love hearing everyone's thoughts about it.

SPEAKER_06 1:26:13

That's crazy. It almost makes me feel thinking about just a couple of those, not all of them, but a couple of those theories make me feel like this movie's less original than I thought.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:23

Oof.

SPEAKER_06 1:26:24

It's the Christmas carol for me. It's the Christmas carol that really fucking did it.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:28

The Christmas carol. Oh, I just cemented Chris's hack. Nice.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:33

Oh no. Sean, what have you done?

SPEAKER_00 1:26:36

Let me just say my worst part of this movie as well is the fact that they had to cut out so much of the philosophy of time travel. And I think there's so much more explanation that could be had had they left more of that in or had they added more in, because I think that would get rid of a lot of ambiguity and a lot of theories, and it would cement it into the whole tangent universe thing because it didn't come out of nowhere. It came from the movie, it came from the materials of the movie and from the marketing and from the director. And so I think it would have been a lot clearer had they just leaned into that, added five more minutes into this film, and it all would have been like, okay, it's stuff that exists within the universe of this film. That's why there's certain rules, that's why certain things happen. I think it's out there, and you can watch the director's cut and get that little bit of extra taste for it. But I think we needed a little bit more than that. And that would have made it just concrete.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:29

Yeah, just to kind of omit the whole alien bit, which already that alone was I think it's already omitted.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:36

I just think that that's somebody just I'll give it to them for like how much thought they put into all of that. But you know, and the director's cut for sure gives you little snippets. I believe it plugs in those little still shots that are almost like chapters in the book of the time travel book or whatever the book is called, and kind of just gives you some excerpts from those chapters that kind of do. guide you through what this tangent universe is about and what it does and the time travel of it all and all that stuff. So maybe they could have put more, even more. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:09

Well, much like you, Sean, I have a hard time picking a worse part, but I guess I do have one. It's very small. And it's that the sparkle motion scene, obviously, you know, them dancing. They're dancing to a particular song that isn't what it could have been. And what it could have been is one of my favorite songs of all time from one of my favorite groups of all time. And that's Pet Shop Boys. It could have been West End Girls. And that's what keeps me up at night. You know what keeps me up at night is that Richard Kelly couldn't secure the rights for that song. And I could have had Pet Shop Boys as a child watching Donnie Darko. And if I'm so insufferable now having loved this movie all my life, could you imagine if Pet Shop Boys was in it too? God. My I'll let my brother explain. You know, if you guys ever meet my brother, he'll tell you how insufferable I would have been. So maybe it's for the best.

SPEAKER_06 1:28:59

I think it's the worst part, but it's probably for the best for humankind Okay, listen, Bings, let me tell you the only fucking circumstance in which I will consider rewatching this movie. I want to rewatch this movie but if you pick out all the songs to substitute the existing score.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:16

But I wouldn't because the score is absolutely incredible except for that one omission. That one omission which even the substitute is fine. What we got was fine and it's hilarious but could it have been better with Pet Shop Boys? Yes. The answer is always yes. If you put Pet Shop Boys in it it's always yes.

SPEAKER_06 1:29:34

Okay well I guess I don't have to rewatch this movie then.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:36

But now you've given me a challenge and so I will be doing that this evening.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:40

You know Chris sometimes I doubt your commitment to sparkle motion.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:43

There it is. There it is.

SPEAKER_06 1:29:45

Yeah you should. I'm not committed to it at all. I have no qualms with commitment. There it is. I am a very committed person on the Navy Corps values. But fuck that sparkle motion.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:56

That is the quote that I use at least once a month. Oh wow and there's so many people who don't get it and it it doesn't matter whether or not they get it because I understood the reference because I'm the one who made it.

SPEAKER_06 1:30:09

Why have I never heard this before from you in our years of knowing each other.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:14

It's something that I would use we didn't even know that he had the marionette thing. Do we want to forget that's true that's true. Do we want to forget that? No.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:22

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:23

I I think I use it mostly at work and and sometimes I imagine I probably just use it in my head and don't say it out loud. Yeah but I I will watch this movie again and I next time we'll watch the director's cut. There you go.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:36

I yeah I undoubtedly will watch this movie again. I think it's because of all of the off the wall theories that makes this movie rewatchable if not just for the Easter eggs and obviously just the incredible production that is this film. But you can just continue to find new paths, new meanings each time you watch it and not even if you believe in it, but you can just come up with theories for the fun of it and it just makes it timeless and I'm sure that this one will always circle around even if it takes a decade.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:07

Well while I don't plan on revisiting this I'm glad to see that it is alive and well for the rest of the cult lovers of this film. But for now there you have folks Donnie Darker from 2001 Hazard More and a hack in three slashes.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:20

Now we've certainly had a robust discussion here but the conversation about this movie doesn't end here by any means.com slash hackerslash where you can enjoy even more of the show including bonus content with early access, extended episodes with our B sides movie nominations and live shows.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:46

And if you enjoyed listening to my pitch as to why this is horror or us unpacking the several potential theories leave us a five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. This helps us continue to deliver great content for all you horror fiends out there.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:05

Shouldn't you be off with your friends scaring old people did I ever tell you all about the time I was the Easter rabbit No Yes. Oh wait yes did I ever tell you all about the time I was also Peter Rabbit?

SPEAKER_04 1:32:30

Did did I black out and forget? How do you guys remember the story and I don't maybe you weren't on the episode. Oh well do tell.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:38

So for reference community service in high school did story time for kids at Barnes Noble and the first Sunday of every month it was into like a licensed costume. So I was Clifford the big red dog. Ironically I'm 5'3 so I was very short. The mouse room if you give a mouse a cookie Arthur the yardvark Peter Rabbit etc etc but before that I also did community service where I dressed up as the Easter Bunny and rode a tram while they took a bunch of kids from underserved areas to Denny's for breakfast. And then we had like a little egg hunt. However it does remind me and I'm really sparked by the inspiration of this movie of all the fucked up bunny costumes that have existed over the years. We see them mostly with like mall figures with like or like portrait figures for Easter but there's also a long lineage of fucked up bunny costumes for Halloween.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:32

I'm sure there is I'm definitely sure I think I might have actually worn a bunny costume at some point as a child for Halloween and it wasn't meant to be a Halloween costume but it just works so well because they're off putting it just doesn't belong like a grown bunny just standing up on two legs walking around.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:50

Yeah give me a bunny with a 401k and that's fucking scary oh no I think the only bunny that I've ever gone as for Halloween was Roger Rabbit.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:01

That was funny I just I guess like bunny costumes are more popular than I realize because I I at face value I'm like a bunny costume why the hell would you want to do that? And then I think of all these movies like mean girls or whatever where they're just like you know a slutty bunny or just like fuck it I'm gonna be the regular Easter bunny costume. But a creepy bunny costume that's the sweet spot because that's frightening right like you think of rabbits and they look so cute and harmless and like fluffy but you also forget that they can be rabid and quite literally fuck you up.

SPEAKER_06 1:34:38

Fuck themselves up too baby nothing but that's a TBT's for sure I'll tell you what is not getting down though there is a link I have of 122 vintage Halloween costumes that will scare you to death are you ready to see how fucked up this is let's go. Alright I'm dropping the link in our Discord chat so our patrons uh and our listeners in Discord can play along if you want to take a look there. But holy shit first one already off rip terrifying what the fuck is this demon child it is Lucifer that is shit is creepy as hell dude what the fuck frightening as hell I need a print framed in my house yeah if we ever do a hacker slash haunted house it's gonna be this shit just a whole wall of it. No the second picture that costume is incredible literally a massive mal de ojo the third is not giving original though that's giving silent hill it's giving saucy it's giving pigs true true oh what the fuck is number four are they mice I think there's a comment that says Ardvarks Ardvarks I'm team artvarks that is not what Arthur looks like sir number five is a little puzzling it's really fucked up little babies with little baby porcelain masks and even number six honestly just gets creativity points for also draping a skeleton cloth on the horse's yeah that was good that works oh number seven there's uh well is that a horse holy shit it's giving pet cemetery it's pet cemetery it is like yeah it is it's also doing we the third person from the left has to hold knees together modern I gotta go pee pose though so that's you know timeless. Someone would also say the sorority squat yeah the sorority squat all it's missing is the millennial pea sign number eight screams racism just saying oh fair enough that's terrible that's awful burn it with fire but the comet that says creepy yet classy is a little more concerned number number nine is oh my god is it nightmare before Christmas lock shock and barrel yeah yeah oh my god imagine these kids showing up at your door yeah number ten looks like he's gonna go out for a fucking purge night literally the plunger literally what's he doing with that plunger you know Zunakan in the chat also says number 10 is sick kind of want to recreate it folks if you in the chat are following along and you know of any creepy ass fucking Halloween costumes feel free to drop them in holy shit number 13 is fucked it's giving it's a small world almost in a weird backwards way and 14 is just that in Disney World.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:23

Oh shit on fire that's perfect oh not now you're just missing the car yeah literally not getting a tail what the hell rambunctious number 15 looks like he's smoking a cigarette it does where is that smoke coming from oh no oh you guys have to see 19 that's the Michelin man number nine yeah it does look like the Michelin man it does it also looks like even the ones before it are fucked up dude what are these kids what are these kids doing man they we need to bring these costumes back these are great I haven't seen kids look this scary ever in my life yeah are those capes is that how they're hiding themselves is with a cape in the wind or are they just like just cover it with black nobody'll know for which one 18?

SPEAKER_00 1:38:09

For number 18.

SPEAKER_06 1:38:10

Yeah I don't even know what is hiding in that massive head oh if you look at number 21 you may recognize her long legs from the movie Cuckoo.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:20

Oh yes this inspiration the original cuckoo what makes number 22 and many of these photos creepy is that like kids' wardrobes have changed so vastly since whenever these were like originally taken and so they look like old men with but with like the size and shape of a child.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:38

It's so true because this one is literally just like a piece of cardboard or paper.

SPEAKER_06 1:38:43

It's very basic the mask that this kid is wearing but yeah Kayla in the chat says 27 is giving where the wild things are but make it creepy and it actually reminds me of that Netflix show Big Mouth. Oh my monster but make it a child yeah ooh I like that 28 is giving cult and racism and we're gonna skip past that's not I don't know if 29 is giving much better.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:09

No 29 is giving gangbang.

SPEAKER_04 1:39:11

Whoa screenhead dot com now oh god 32 insane creativity except what the fuck is coming from his crotch?

SPEAKER_02 1:39:20

Look at that tail I wasn't gonna point that out it's the tail but it's just not looking good in this picture.

SPEAKER_06 1:39:27

Like that's the problem. Oh yeah at best he has a shovel where his crotch should be so 32 is problematic folks um in fact I'm gonna put a screenshot just in case our listeners who are following along in our live chat can't see it on their link. This is number 32 what the fuck is going on with number 32?

SPEAKER_02 1:39:49

I'm sorry we'll keep moving what is going on also what the f yeah there's a lot of details on this I found 39 is just Chewbacca so that's great. There's that oh but 37 that witch mask is fantastic.

SPEAKER_06 1:40:05

I what okay it is where are these things I'm sorry we need to talk about 41 though where a child is just being abducted. His face is so scared yeah yeah oh that's unsettling a lot of these that have just the skeleton outfits are they're just not doing it they could have done more number 45 is just black bags on our heads with faces painted that's terrible also problematic potentially Donald Duck that is not fucking Donald Duck on number 48 that is like Donald Duck and fucking Goofy had a crossbred baby.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:38

God how weird Yeah that's no good 49 is like fun because it if you know if it were modernized it would if they're like the shape of TVs. That's what I'm getting from 49 is TVs on their heads. That's wild.

SPEAKER_06 1:40:51

Do you all have any photos of you when you're a kid with Halloween costumes?

SPEAKER_00 1:40:56

Oh absolutely I'm sure they exist but I don't have it I go to the 52 please particularly go down the 52 in but before we jump into that the unicorn yeah it's because they shaped the face to be human like but also horse like that's disturbing that needs to be in the movie Kayla's point number 58 hey it's me JK number 59 is what the fuck is that 61 looks creepy as shit.

SPEAKER_06 1:41:26

Yeah it's the pose it's the assuming the position that makes it creepier tapes honestly I don't like that very strange like some lizard dude yeah we I think we all need to have a costume party but our theme needs to be fucked up vintage costumes.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:40

Yeah for sure 63 is like the mom from Barbarian.

SPEAKER_04 1:41:43

Look at that it's got her milk baba 69 I just added in the chat a picture of yes my Halloween costume as a kid I was Jasmine serving serving you were just where's Raja I love your hyaliah bed set that we all had oh a thousand percent a thousand percent the bangs were banging the hair I did have okay I was gonna say did I have a little genie lamp I sure did you can visibly see what might be I can't tell what saint that is it might have been La Virgen de la cobre but a saint picture right next to it because necessary on the bedside.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:22

Don't you forget it oh 78 is creepy though I don't know if you got that far. Oh I'm on like the 100s let me scroll back 78 is just super creepy because if there is an actual person between these two kids the face is like fading into the dark oh yeah I love that it's giving Darth Maul from Insidious.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:43

Yeah it's super super creepy.

SPEAKER_04 1:42:47

The fucking but 82 is just melted.

SPEAKER_06 1:42:50

That's just like a so number 92 it's giving Uncle Sam so that's fun. Uncle Sam is in the movie we just reviewed but it's also oddly giving tourist trap and also giving the strangers. Yep yep I see this amber yeah this is uh incredible and now I really want to do a vintage costume photo series.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:13

I just what it's the it's the homemade of it all that really makes them weird we lost it we just rely on store bought items now there's no yeah there's just no creativity left you know half of them are just simple but they're just fucking creepy.

SPEAKER_04 1:43:29

Bring this shit I will say that in this list there are a couple repeats not trying to be that person there is a couple of there are some repeats you are correct so they're just trying to get some filler in here I caught you it was probably AI.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:43

Come on be you know let's be honest.

SPEAKER_06 1:43:46

Speaking of hold on that's a great idea oh are we about to AI generate a costume or we had great success the other day. We did the Zimmorph in a Bride of Frankenstein wig and we gave the creature from the black lagoon a blonde beehive. Yeah it was a great where the hell was I when did this happen on the episode it was our cuckoo episode it was the cuckoo episode and it was great.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:10

Yeah it was absolutely go down to 107 and tell me who failed anatomy oh my gosh I can tell you right now if I have a kid these are the costumes you can expect. Ain't dressing up like a superhero or any of that crap. You are going to be the creepiest kid out there.

SPEAKER_06 1:44:30

Most definitely I'm actually really excited so I'm getting to take Ali's son for his Halloween costume very soon like over this weekend he's gonna be ghost face and we're gonna take him to a spirit Halloween it's the first time I've ever taken a child to get anything Halloween related and I am so stoked.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:46

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_06 1:44:47

Okay oh there it is there's Peter Rabbit and there's me as Peter Rabbit hot dignity dollars. Counting on Nathan the historian to find this look at that love to see it okay AI struck out nothing good. Oh no I promised I honestly should have given it a more specific prompt but here we are you cannot recapture the beauty of the past.

SPEAKER_04 1:45:09

Wow well now I feel like I needed to have rethought my Halloween costume. Not that I was settled on anything in particular this year but can I do more? I feel challenged what are you gonna do I feel like I need to rise to the occasion.

SPEAKER_06 1:45:22

What are you gonna do?

SPEAKER_04 1:45:22

Oh I mean I was gonna just look up what purple haired costume opportunities there were. I know that's super basic teen Titan exact correct Raven yes yes I thought of her god doesn't sound like you want to do that one I do she's actually my favorite teen titan but I but when when it's so easily guessed it's like god damn it it is basic isn't it so I shouldn't do that. I also thought of is it Leela from Futurama? Oh she has been okay that works that could be fun that yeah that's oh my god again I feel like am I settling you know from the cousin yes my cousin's favorite villain she's been talking about isma for like the last three weeks nonstop I think you got it you can also be maybe I should surprise Winky the Teletubby no not so much you know oh amethyst from Steven Universe is also a good option that's very true spooky bitches we're gonna try to do a horror version of Dorothy and the scarecrow from Wizard of Oz.

SPEAKER_06 1:46:31

Oh so you mean Pearl and her scarecrow?

SPEAKER_02 1:46:34

Well I mean I guess you could interpret it that but it yeah but it's gonna be the fucked up looking scarecrow and Dorothy all mauled up and fucking dead.

SPEAKER_06 1:46:43

That sounds incredible God I cannot wait to see that that's gonna be amazing. I think I took off the whole week of Halloween from work. Nice I took off the whole week that we're out in Orlando for Spooky Empire I took off the whole week of Halloween and I don't think I've ever made a better decision in my life.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:01

I love that for you always a good decision.

SPEAKER_06 1:47:03

Happy October everyone